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Will Robot Cars Need Windows?
An anonymous reader writes: The Atlantic has an article asking whether autonomous cars need windows. If there's no driver, will the passengers want to look outside? In the summer, will anyone want to endure the relentless heat from the sun? The robot cars offer us a great opportunity to rethink the platform which is largely devoted to supporting the driver. But if a computer is in charge and it sees with dozens of cameras ringing the car, what else can we change? What else don't we need? What can improve?
People who get car sick need windows. Nuff said.
I think you'll need to ask Microsoft if autonomous cars need Windows..
I don't need windows - just gun ports.
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I would say that linux would be a superior choice to windows for a car. Less re-starting.
Windows is something no car should have. What happens if there's a critical system update while you're driving or else a blue screen of death? And do I need 3 more tires to upgrade between versions? ...but I'm not sure everyone will understand. Is there a good car analogy?
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The passengers in a plane do not need windows but clearly because planes have windows at considerable cost to design properly (remember the Dehavilland Comet?) there's clearly a want for them to be there.
Passengers in cars will want the option of looking out. One can even argue that scenic drives with an autonomous car would be much safer because there's no driver to split his attention between the view and the act of operating the vehicle.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
But we still have them there.
Conclusion: cars will continue to have windows.
Real question - will the cameras in a driver-less car store their images and will those images be retrievable
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Without windows it'll seem just like the parent's basement, but without Windows.
Of course robot driven cars will need windows, windows that will open. How else can you roll down the window and throw things at pedestrians?
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Didn't early astronauts demand that the capsule have a window? And despite airlines predictions of screens instead of windows travelers still don't want to fly in a plane without them. Windows add engineering complexity but nobody besides lazy engineers and bean counters care. Everyone else wants to see the view.
Do you drive your house? Why do you have windows there? Do you drive the plane? Why are there windows there? And carsickness. I mean sure, it's great to ask questions, but the windows on a car aren't just for the driver to know where they are going.
People still have windows in their houses even though they aren't strictly necessary. My guess would be that there will be fewer, more understated windows. Police are gonna be pissed that 1) they can't make money writing tickets anymore because the cars all do what they're supposed to and 2) they can't see inside to see if you're black or not.
Don't we have windows for passengers? I am sure autonomous cars will have passengers, right? Many magazines have filler articles to fill the space for publication and this seems like one. Even airplanes have windows where there is only thin air outside.
There are plenty of reasons (beyond merely operating the vehicle) to need windows:
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Daybreakers!
High performance flat screen monitors with inertial sync'd real-time videos flying at light speed through the cosmos being chased by Vulture Droids... I will be looking forward to my compute.
...when we are not ready to mitigate every single scenario in which a human driver would need to take over and drive in an emergency?
I mean seriously, we're not even close to answering that. Therefore, humans will still need things like windows and mirrors.
They may still happen - is it easier to break a window to extricate you or slice open the body of a vehicle?
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Yes, the pilot/driver needs to see outside but none of the passengers need to see outside. And yet they always have windows because people like to look outside.
Why would a driverless car be any different?
Next issue.
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How will the robot dog stick its head out of the window?
Airliners only need one set of windows at the front, for the pilots. But there's a row of windows on either side, and the seats next to those windows are the second-most-popular (after those on the aisle) despite the fact that they're the most difficult to get in and out of, have no access to the overhead bins, and offer less head/foot room. See also: trains, buses, passenger ferries. So I think the answer is yes: robot cars will still have windows.
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I've heard of a Windows OS that can block 90% of usefulness of hardware ;-)
Captain Scarlet had it right .. not only did the Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle not have any windows, the occupants had rearward facing seats to better protect them in the case of a crash, and they used video monitors to view where they were driving.
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If there's no driver, will the passengers want to look outside?
What an asinine question. You don't need windows on buildings but they have them because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE OUTSIDE!!! And buildings don't even move. They added a window to the freaking Mercury capsules to get a better view. Yes there will be windows on automated vehicles.
Boeing and Airbus are playing with the idea of a synthetic window, where a camera provides an image to the window. However, they don't prevent airsickness. How about the autonomous cars we use every day, like subways and trains? Those still have windows for some reason too. Autonomous cars will have windows.
Don't forget the government override switch so they can detain you 'for your own protection' if needed. Because, you know, the terrorists!
Last time I was in a plane, they had windows for passengers. Most passengers will either choose a window seat or an aisle. Most don't want a middle seat. I personally like the window seat behind the wing, so I can observe the flight control surfaces, and, of course, keep out a look for gremlins.
Beyond that I think we will still need windows that roll down. On mild days it is nice to have a breeze. Also, unless these cars are leased and broken ones are traded back immediately, the air conditioning will go out and there is not always $1000 to fix it. Also people just tend to be control freaks and like to see where they are going.
I would also advocate for panoramic sunroofs. One problem with the new fangled electric cars is that you can't get a convertible, which makes them totally worthless.
I am sure someone will make a sealed box because it will be cheaper and more energy efficient. I suspect a fully automatic car will be more like the back of limo with facing seats or perhaps the back of a RR saloon. It could be that tastes are going to change over time and such a vehicle will seem the norm, much like the living room style of a mini van or and SUV seems the norm. Video cameras will pipe the outside in, and overlays with trivia will make a long ride seems more enjoyable. Cars designs do evolve, and windows will eventually be passe. I am not sure if that will happen in two generations or three. I hope that when it does, we also have hovercars.
Not driving, no windows, in motion and potentially reading? That all adds up to motion sickness. (Time up up my stock in Tums!)
I'm sure the government will also have a camera conveniently placed inside your windowless box because otherwise, who knows what you could be doing/transporting in there, serf. #1 traffic violation will now be tampering with the camera instead of speeding...
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Yes. Next question.
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Why do dogs need to stick their head out of the window in a moving car?
Serious question.
A self-driving car will still need windows in case the human driver ever needs to take over. But the windows could certainly have privacy shades. Other things we'd no longer need for robot cars are street signs, stop lights, and lane markers. You might argue that we'd need to keep those things for the people choosing to drive themselves but my question would be how long should the rest of us finance billions in infrastructure for a diminishing number of holdouts?
That's why I think self-driving cars are going to take over a lot faster than most people imagine. There are significant costs to maintain infrastructure for human drivers. Not to mention the insurance implications when it starts costing significantly more to drive yourself.
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I like the seats on the cross-country trains (VIA up here in Canada). They have pairs of seats that can swivel, to make them face another pair of seats. A fold out table creates a nice surface for a nice game of cards, or whatever you fancy. You could even have meetings while driving to a destination. So many possibilities when you don't have to stare at the back of someone's head!
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Anyone else sick of driving a REAL car and NOT being able to see around super-oversized SUVs at a safe following distance?
I'm sick of driving a REAL car and NOT being able to see around your Corolla.
REAL cars have the engine in the middle, where Newton intended, and are as low as possible to reduce drag.
Airplanes and cruise ships don't *need* windows, yet they are installed at great expense. It'd be a lot easier to build an airliner without having to cut a hundred holes in the fuselage then cover and seal the holes with windows.... yet no one wants to fly in a windowless tube, just like no one will want to ride in a windowless car -- LCD panels and cameras aren't quite the same as a live view through a window.
Start with a Tesla Model S chassis and mount one of those Tea Cups you find in amusement parks. That would be interesting.
This became the default option in 2018 as the seemingly endless Jebvilles began to line the LA/SF Xpress+ Corridor.
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Yes, they do.
An early example of getting it wrong was the City & South London Railway, the first deep-level underground rail line in London. The designers of the rolling stock didn't bother with windows because there was, supposedly, nothing to see. Passengers hated the "padded cells". Even if all you see is tunnel walls rushing by, people need to see outside.
I could see the utility of an airliner with no windows but cameras and viewing screens - it would solve some engineering problems - but for a car, the simplest is still the best. Windows.
...laura
The Atlantic has an article asking whether autonomous cars need windows....
There are windows on space capsules.
There are windows on railroad passenger cars.
There are windows in houses.
.
My guess is that people, in general, like to look outside.
If a car is not designed to carry passengers it does not need windows, but then what is the purpose? I'm excluding trucks and delivery vehicles here to focus on 'passenger' cars. I suppose you really don't need windows, but provide another way to see outside or some other VR imagery with cameras and organic LED displays inside the car. Take a cross country or long haul trip, turn off the lights and sleep - this gives 'catching the red eye' a whole new meaning.
As many others have pointed out, the windows serve many purposes beyond aiding the driver. In fact there is very little in a car (other than the controls and instrument panel) that are specifically intended for the driver (mirrors maybe?). A better question would be, what could change in a passengerless vehicle (package or pizza delivery, street cleaner, snow plow, Google Street View camera car, etc)?
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If we get rid of the windows, can I get 2 more FM presets and 8 more XM presets? Maybe I don't need radio at all if I am not driving. I can just watch Cinemax if there are no windows.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
But you can always install windows on them if that is what you want.
Windows can be broken and used for emergency exists in the case of accidents. Hopefully have the cars automated will cut down on accidents (is it still an accident if a hacker reprograms a car to purposefully hit other objects?).
No, but who would want to live in it. Why would you want to drive around in a coffin.
There WILL be a driver, they WILL need to see outside. Seriously where do you people come up with this crap? Let's just put people inside a closed metal box they can't see out of and have zero control over. Yeah sure great idea, what nightmare Universe did you come from anyway?
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
If there's no driver, will the passengers want to look outside?
Yes. It's not drivers that make people want to look outside.
In the summer, will anyone want to endure the relentless heat from the sun?
This is in "The Atlantic" ???? I can see this statement coming from California, but there's lots of places in the world where it can be quite mild in the summer. Plus, metal heats up too; better to install one-way windows.
Right now, there are requirements about what kind of glass can be used in the windshield and front windows of a vehicle; for fully autonomous vehicles, I can see this requirement going away, assuming the vehicle is prominently labeled as autonomous.
The robot cars offer us a great opportunity to rethink the platform which is largely devoted to supporting the driver. But if a computer is in charge and it sees with dozens of cameras ringing the car, what else can we change? What else don't we need? What can improve?
OK: let's look at this from a sane standpoint instead of the disconnected thoughts from the original article.
In an autonomous vehicle, no driver is needed. That means that all the functions that are tied directly to the driver/navigator are no longer needed. Anything that's currently a requirement elsewhere in the vehicle will still be a requirement. Vans are often driven by a single driver, and have no windows beyond the windshield and front side windows. So the difference between a van and say, a minivan, will show you what features are needed purely for the passengers.
That said, with "retina" displays these days, it shouldn't be too long before windows can be replaced with something that provides a full 360 degree video feed of what's happening outside the car. This would help people with motion sickness beyond what is currently provided in cars. As an added bonus, you could swap out the "real" feed for some other location, etc, syncing up the movement part, but providing a more visually pleasing scene. You could also add more information to the display as desired by the passengers, block off part of it as a display for their mobile device or in-vehicle entertainment system, etc.
Basically, the inside of a vehicle could become an Omnimax theater.
Also, we currently have all the seats facing forward. It's possible that without the need for the driver to face forward, all seats could face the rear, which would possibly result in fewer whiplash cases in the case of front-end collisions.
I'm sure people could think of many more things that could be done to the interior if the "driver's pod" no longer existed.
no windows? does this mean we have to take permission from car to get out? we are making prison for ourselves and they are over taking us!
If somebody else hits me, it's obviously not my fault, so why would I ever need insurance, aside from things like theft or natural disasters?
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Many years ago in a Donald Duck comic, Gyro Gearloose's autonomous cars were panned by the mayor and city council of Duckburg for not having windows.
Prescient writers.
On the one hand, you could black out the windows for privacy. On the other hand, many police departments have a hard time with blacked out windows.
I'd say not only would windows be nice but the option to take down the roof as well.
Of course I enjoy driving far too much to ever give that up to an automated vehicle. I've been keeping a spider (MR-S) for a while because I really enjoy driving with the roof down. And even though the MR-S is used and beat up and mostly stock I keep it despite the fact my primary vehicle is a tuned GT86 just because it's a blast to drive an MR with the roof down.
If you ask me all these people who are pushing for automated cars should drive an 86/BRZ or an S660 or a Lotus or some other drivers car and see if they reconsider wanting to get rid of the "hassle" of driving. Don't get me wrong; certain automation can be good (EG: Subaru EyeSight) but at the end of the day the actual act of driving should be something enjoyable.
Your dog is deprived of a simple pleasure. Hooray for you.
My dog arrives safely at his destination and won't become a 50lb projectile that could kill both of us in an accident. He also won't get any debris in his eyes that I'll have to have a vet remove later. My dog has plenty of joy in his life and I promise you will not know he missed anything by keeping his head inside the window.
No, they'll run on Linux.
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You are correct, I do use the non-driver side back seat window. But the driver side back seat window is totally blocked by my head rest and not viewable.
What do you drive? I'd like to make a note never to buy that car because I've never been in a vehicle I couldn't turn my head and see out the driver's side rear window well enough to make useful driving decisions. Certainly never such that I was blocked by the headrest. The B-pillar sometimes gets in the way but not the seat itself.
There have been proposals to eliminate the windows in airliners, substituting projected video images from cameras on the outer skin, even perhaps extending to an cockpit with a projected view in all directions. Just search for "windowless airliner". For a take on self driving cars, view dystopian future of the Woody Allen movie "Sleeper", when cars of the future have frosted canopies with a small clear forward peek-out/peek-in area on he front.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I take the train I don't drive it and they still put windows on the cars. The passenger area of a commercial airliner also has windows. What would I want to take the windows out of a self-driving car? I like to see where I am and where I'm going even when I'm not in charge of getting myself there.
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Many of us have adjusted our side mirrors correctly, to point far more outwards than what most people do. Or even attach dead angle mirrors.
And some of us do that AND look directly to ensure what is behind us is actually clear because even well adjusted mirrors sometimes don't permit full elimination of blind spots in many vehicles.
Never depend on being able to watch out the rear side window. That's a bad habit you need to stop.
We're going to disagree on that. If I have visibility in any direction outside of a vehicle I'm going to make full use of it when circumstances allow me to do so safely. I would say you should never ignore any means of increasing your situational awareness. There are times when it is 100% appropriate to use rear windows to observe what is going on around your vehicle while driving. There also are times when you absolutely shouldn't. Good drivers know the difference.
It may be blocked or not even there (pickup trucks).
If it isn't there then it isn't an issue. There are some cars that have absolutely terrible visibility but that doesn't mean you don't use it when you have it.
And by turning your head, you lose sight of what's even more dangerous - what's ahead of you.
Pro-tip: You don't turn your head when there is a reasonable probability of hitting something in front of you. If turning your head for long enough to check your blind spot is dangerous in all cases then you aren't a very good driver because it should only take a fraction of a second and can easily be done quite safely. Some vehicles simply are not equipped well enough to eliminate blind spots and the ability to check directly and safely is an important driving skill. Ideally it shouldn't be necessary but the simple fact is that sometimes it is required in the real world.
You need windows for a gozillion different reasons but the most important is to shatter them and escape when the door is stuck/deformed after an accident. Robot cars will not get in accidents a lot, but when they do, you'll want to get out somehow.
A better option than no windows would be "automatic shades" that make the windows opaque if the passengers choose to do so. Windows serve a lot more function than just giving the driver a field of view. Not everyone likes AC and many of us like to drive with the windows open, but being able to block the windows with an opaque tint would have its benefit too.
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Even a subway has windows. It is fairly well known that people need to be able to see out of the box they are in for reasons such as motion sickness, claustrophobia, and various psychological reasons.
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No, they're not. Why, you ask? Because they're heavier than windows, and so will increase fuel costs. "Windowless" first class section, maybe. Same screens used in cattle class to play non-stop ads, possibly if it offsets the cost of the fuel and increases overall profits. But wall screens like these being used merely to provide an outside view in the entire passenger section of regularly scheduled commercial flights? You'll get your flying car before you see that happen.
People inside a metal box during summer will die if the a/c fails and there are no windows to roll down to cool them off.
Picture the first vehicle to reach it's destination and doors open up and all occupants are dead due to heat exhaustion. All for lack of a window.
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Automated cars need a toilet. And a mini-fridge. Michigan to Florida non-stop.
No, but how about offering a "choice", windows that darken when requested and also allow the passenger to look out if desired.
That seems to be the main component missing in everything new these days (especially software)... a choice.
Instead we are forced/told how it will be, and with copyrights escalation to included firmwares and anything else an user might change... well I leave you to think about the implications.
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Why would coach buses need windows? Or trains? Or buildings?
they will.
In the future individuals won't be able to own cars, instead they will be all supplied by businesses who need to MAKE ends MEET so like MODERN sporting EVENT the car WILL BE FILLED WITH LOUD MUSIC AND ADVERTS AND THE WALLS WILL BE FILLED WITH RAPIDLY CHANGING ADS AND WINDOWS WILL ONLY TAKE AWAY FROM THE AVAILABLE AD SPACE AND THIS BOMBARDMENT WILL CONTINUE UNTIL we have reached your destination, thank you for using Rent-A-Car.
Only if they want the cars to crash! I hear if they have 10, it should be much better, and able to be used on cars big and small. Pry still buggy and crash prone. Why would you want your car to crash?
Bah
What a silly question. Do trains need windows for the passengers? Or planes? People like to look outside, so of course there will be windows.
I like my coffee the way I like my women - roasted and ground up into little tiny pieces.
With this logic, aircraft have never needed windows in the passenger area. Yet only some freight aircraft are low in windows, most have 2 per passenger row.
Trains? Buses? TFA is idiotic.
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What do I need less, windows or a windowless robot car?
You can also get nice harnesses that clip in like a seatbelt and keep the dog from being a projectile. And he can still stick his head out the window.
If he can still stick his head out the window the harness is not secured tightly enough to keep him from becoming a projectile. A harness with a long tether is pointless in a car because he can still be launched. It would be functionally identical to having a seatbelt for you with several feet of slack - you may as well not wear one at that point. Plus it doesn't keep him from getting debris in his eyes. There is a very good reason why we have windshields or why drivers wear goggles when a windshield is not present. Those same reasons apply to dogs.
Or I can just keep his head inside the window and not have to buy a stupid accessory for my dog while keeping him safe and secure. I promise you that there is no need for him to stick his head out the window of a moving car. My dog likes to do all sorts of things that are not safe. Just because he might enjoy it doesn't make it a good idea.
I clicked on this article expecting it to be another instance of Microsoft deciding to play follow the leader, that if Google is making a Google autonomous car, then drat it all, we must have a Windows Car! Even though that makes no sense! I was going to say, frack no, robotic cars definitely do not need Windows, please god no.
The answer to the actual question posed, is of course, no they don't technically *need* windows... you don't *need* to give passengers in busses or trains or airplanes windows, either, but you do it anyway, because natural light is good, and because, yes, why *wouldn't* we want to look outside? (Also because there still needs to be a way to take manual control in case of emergency, in which case we'd need to be able to see out for that.)
First off, this topic reminded me of a funny YouTube video I saw recently, you'll have to look it up if interested as I can't link it. But it involved a Dad with a batman mask, in a van, with two kids in the back.
Kid1: (in a whiny voice) "The DVD player isn't working..."
BatDad: (in BatVoice) "When I was your age, all I had to amuse myself was looking out the windows"
Kid1: "That must of sucked...."
So one might argue, that the entertainment portion of windows in cars may have been eclipsed by media.
Having said that, there is a safety issue. While windows no doubt add structural weakness into any design, on the occurrence of an accident, it is easier for a first responder to locate victims, and also to remove them possibly through a broken window should doors be jammed shut.
Do trains have windows? Do RVs have windows? Airplanes? ... yes, you dunce; they'll need windows. Maybe just not the large, wide field of vision type that we have now...
Having the windows eliminated and replaced with flexible/form fitting screens that are impact safe would be an improvement. The people won't miss anything, and the motion sickness will be 10x worse.
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I know I'd want to look out of a window while I travel - no matter who or what is driving. Perhaps there will be options to press a button and turn your window into a movie screen. Or a holographic computer monitor to klak while you drive, or, even better, game while you drive! HEY! I said it first!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
No,
It's not a matter of windows, it's a matter of the citizen's freedom. There are a lot of people that hate freedom (at least for others) and will try to "stamp it out" at the first chance they get. And personal automobiles are the essence of freedom.
What is really wanted, by some, is to ship the passengers in a packing crate! Yikes! 8-)
Imagine this.
You're in an automated car, driving home from a party.
Patch Tuesday rolls up and it's a bad one. 30 patches, which if all applied at the same time will brick your car for 30 minutes and reboot 5 times.
You're on a cliff road and the car is at the speed limit.
Do you wish you had windows now?
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