Features That Windows 10 Will Deprecate

jones_supa writes: Microsoft announced that a Windows 10 upgrade will be free for users running Windows 7 and 8.1, but there will be a number of features that will no longer work after that upgrade. The features that will no longer work are listed on the official specifications page on Microsoft's website. Some of the deprecated features include: Media Center, out-of-the-box DVD playback and USB floppy support, desktop gadgets, deferring updates (Home edition), old versions of Windows games, and Windows Live Essentials version of OneDrive.

Comments

You Mean...?

[MightyMartian]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback? The first thing I've done on a new computer for the last five or six years is install VLC.

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

I tried to do that two days ago after I de-regioned my PC's DVD player so I could actually play the DVDs I had paid for.

I could not get the windows 8 to play the DVD. I found no program that could do it. Media player certainly couldn't.

I downloaded VLC.

Re:You Mean...?

[93 Escort Wagon]

I haven't used Windows as my desktop in a while, but - when did this become an out-of-the-box feature? Back in the old days you had to find a third-party solution to play DVDs on a Windows PC...

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows XP.

Re:You Mean...?

[MightyMartian]

I know that Windows Media Player in Windows Vista could play DVDs, because I accidentally used it a couple of times, but honestly that was several years ago, and like I said, I just automatically install VLC with every new machine so I doubt I would have ever have noticed if Win10 no longer had the feature.

Re:You Mean...?

[sconeu]

How do you de-region a PC DVD player/burner?

Re:You Mean...?

[ihtoit]

in most cases you're looking at a firmware upgrade. Go here: http://www.doom9.org/index.htm...

HTH.

Re: You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer smplayer for Windows. Live that built in youtube player and browser.

Re:You Mean...?

[Mashiki]

You reflash the rom. You can screw it up and nuke it though, but there's plenty of guides out there.

Re:You Mean...?

[meglon]

PC dvd players used to (and still do?) allow you to change the region 5 times before locking it permanently to the last one selected.... so your region 1 dvd player could be changed to play region 2 dvd's (but no longer region 1 ones). Good for a couple movies you want to watch once. VLC is a vastly better choice.

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

VLC doesn't let you play through a region locked DVD. At least it didn't for me and my DVD drive.

I had to reflash the DVD drive firmware downloaded from the internets. The risk of nuking it wasn't a big deal. I have no US DVD media I would play. I can Netflix/Roku/Stream that. It's all foreign DVDs that I would actually play and/or rip to my NAS. I'm partial to some Japanese bands. So without the region-unlock it was useless to me.

Re:You Mean...?

[Creepy]

Or you could rip them with "illegal" software, at least as far as the US government is concerned. Since you are entitled to one backup by copyright law into any format you choose, the DMCA vs copyright is kind of nebulous. You could probably legally ship it to some other country where it is legal to rip, have it ripped there, then have it and the copy shipped back and not break either law. Or you could rip your CDs/DVDs while on vacation to such a country, but you probably legally have to delete the ripping software before returning to the US.

Re:You Mean...?

[Zero__Kelvin]

"VLC doesn't let you play through a region locked DVD. At least it didn't for me and my DVD drive."

There is a pretty succinct explanation of why you had trouble here.

Re:You Mean...?

[exomondo]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback?

No, that's why they're deprecating it.

Re:You Mean...?

[Gadget_Guy]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback? The first thing I've done on a new computer for the last five or six years is install VLC.

Ah yes, the old "I don't use it, some therefore nobody does" trope. The majority of people in the world wouldn't bother to install VLC to replace a function that was built-in to the OS.

I tend to use the standard media player with K-Lite codecs to play DVDs because the picture quality is slightly better on my system. Perhaps playing with VLC's options would fix that, but I can't think of a reason to bother. For video files, I tend not to care which player I'm currently using unless there are audio sync problems (VLC wins for its audio controls).

Re:You Mean...?

[Tailhook]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback?

Yes. The codec in Windows 7 (ultimate) and its integration with Media Player produces smoother playback with less system load than VLC. The difference grows (up to a point) when other activity competes for resources while playing DVD or Blu-ray video.

You may not realize that, and it may not even occur for your particular collection of hardware. I didn't pick up on it for a long time, but at some point I noticed the difference and since then I've used Media Player. And I'm not some crazy 'phile that obsesses over imaginary minutia; I spend less than average on media gear and I'm not particularly sensitive to minor phenomena. But I can tell the difference between VLC and Media Player, and I can measure the difference in system load.

So yeah, it kinda sucks that the DVD codec Microsoft provides is going away. Will I care enough to not just use VLC? We'll see. I also use VLC frequently; it's better when coping with with random media and does a lot of tricks WMP won't. I have no problem with VLC at all. But if I can get better results with something else then I just might do that instead.

Re:You Mean...?

[GigaplexNZ]

I'm pretty sure, at a bare minimum, Vista and 7 could do this out-of-the-box. They removed it in Windows 8, requiring the "Windows Media Center" upgrade to re-add the codecs as Microsoft didn't like paying the licensing fees for a feature few people used.

Re:You Mean...?

[Microlith]

My last experience with an RPC1 modification had Windows declare that my DVD drive was, suddenly, obsolete and unusable for video playback.

Re:You Mean...?

[chuckugly]

What's a DVD?

Re:You Mean...?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

This is also a fairly niche issue(given that most people shoving DVDs into computers either want them to Just Play, or want to rip the to some format that means never dealing with DVDs); but I'd assume that the MS codec that is being killed is a DirectShow filter; while everything in VLC's bag of tricks is specific to VLC(though some programs do specifically use VLC for various things).

In practice, the words 'DirectShow Filter Graph' typically mean that somebody just opened an industrial sized box of incomprehensible pain; but the theory is noble: it's Microsoft's stab at a modular media handling system that allows a given application to painlessly 'inherit' codecs, effects, demuxing steps, and assorted other operations provided by other software without having to be built with them in mind. If the application uses DirectShow, and there is a set of filters that will get you from the item you are attempting to play to the format the sink requires, things are supposed to work.

There are some atrocious complications(shitty 'codec packs' registering themselves as the most preferred codec for every possible situation, even ones they are horribly broken at, seemed to be a favorite), and much of the time the theoretical elegance of the system was excessive to the actual need, while the complexity was always lurking; but there probably are a few users who will find the announcement painful for this reason. VLC, ffmpeg, etc. are very good at what they do; but just as OSX-native applications expect Quicktime to handle media, and anything that isn't a quicktime plugin will remain isolated solely in the one playback program that it came with, Windows native applications expect Directshow, and if some piece of software is demanding a set of directshow filters that can take a DVD and do something useful, all the VLC in the world will not save them. Not VLC's problem; but one of the reasons why some users are going to be unhappy.

Re:You Mean...?

[meglon]

...or you could hit the "play" button on VLC. Just sayin'....

Re: You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

If anything it's a logical fallacy, but certainly not a trope.

Re:You Mean...?

[cheater512]

Or just download a copy. Legal in many places since you have already bought it.

Re: You Mean...?

[rkcth]

I use both, but I feel media player classic has the inferior UI. VLC in full screen hides the UI elements intelligently, like Netflix does. I couldn't figure out a way to do this in media player classic.

Re:You Mean...?

[shadowrat]

people still have optical drives on their computers?

Re:You Mean...?

[maorb]

But not legal in the states, which is the location we're talking about.

Re:You Mean...?

[networkzombie]

What's a DVD?

A DVD is an optical disc containing either a lower resolution avi or mpg at 720p in a Matroska container so it can be archived on a shelf in a cool dry environment for long term storage, or porn.

Re:You Mean...?

[networkzombie]

people still have optical drives on their computers?

I use my Blu-ray burner all the time. Verbatim 25 GBs for about 30 cents each. Nice backup option compared to thumb drives, plus I don't accidently leave a Blu-ray disc in my pants pocket and have it go through the wash.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Legal to download, not legal to distribute.

Re:You Mean...?

[PRMan]

You forgot to install AnyDVD. In fact, if you install AnyDVD, you probably don't need to change the firmware either.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. I also still have a USB floppy drive, as well as a USB LS-120 drive that I occasionally use.

Re:You Mean...?

[Puls4r]

Yep. That's how I rate my apps too. I have a gay scale of 1 to 10, scientifically calibrated from 0 (Chuck Norris), to 10 (Richard Simmons). Your post is coming in at a 9. Do you work out to "Sweatin to the Oldies"?

Re:You Mean...?

[chuckugly]

I think I saw some in a closet somewhere - I wondered what they were for. I assumed they were just ugly coasters.

Re:You Mean...?

[Bite The Pillow]

Xbox 360 upscales DVD better than anything I've tried, and media player was at least not noticeably worse.

If the codec or infrastructure remains, and the player itself goes away, that would provide opportunities. But why remove the player unless its all gone?

I can't see the reasoning unless it is patent or contractual. Upscaling to a retina display would be better than showing artifacts, even on a tiny portable screen...

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, you're telling me that people actually use 3rd party software to do a built-in function on Windows?

WAT.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or Australia.

Re:You Mean...?

[mwvdlee]

You forgot to mention the nationalistic discrimination feature, which allow the DVD to refuse being used by foreigners.
Back then, corporate executives were racist.

Re:You Mean...?

[stridebird]

But not legal in the states, which is the location we're talking about.

Or Australia.

Oh Australia...where are you going? So much for laid-back Aussies, what the fuck happened? So laid-back they forgot to breed and so some seriously uptight humourless strain of Aussie has arisen.

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

Yes.
However the firmware update was trivial. I googled the model number reported by the hardware, downloaded the updater, ran it and rebooted. That's all.

Re:You Mean...?

[Hognoxious]

The first thing I've done on a new computer for the last five or six years is install VLC.

Is the second thing searching among the 97 million options to get it to do what you want?

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

I have a NAS and a house full of computers, most of which don't have a DVD drive. So I rip DVDs to my NAS so I can watch them on my devices.

Re:You Mean...?

[wonkey_monkey]

I could not get the windows 8 to play the DVD. I found no program that could do it. Media player certainly couldn't.

I downloaded VLC.

And then what happened? I need closure on this anecdote!

Re:You Mean...?

[Half-pint HAL]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback? The first thing I've done on a new computer for the last five or six years is install VLC.

Like others, I used it lots until my laptop blew smoke in my face. In fact, most of what I used Windows for was watching DVDs and online videos as trying to do it under Linux tended to result in jerky pictures, and I didn't see the point in faffing about with trying to configure it when Windows worked fine.

Back in about 2006-8, I was managing desktop apps for a large client company running Windows 2000 (they didn't like spending money, as you can no doubt see!) and we got a hell of a lot of calls saying "DVD won't play". Even now, lots of corporate training materials are issued on DVD, and people see a DVD drive and expect to be able to just insert and go. This will be a support nightmare for anyone who still supplies DVDs....

But anyway... why take it away from people who've already paid for it?

Re: You Mean...?

[SeaFox]

I use both, but I feel media player classic has the inferior UI. VLC in full screen hides the UI elements intelligently, like Netflix does. I couldn't figure out a way to do this in media player classic.

Uh, are you sure you were in full screen mode in MPC? (alt-enter)
Playback controls only appear when your mouse is at the bottom of the screen. Move your mouse up from the bottom, and they disappear instantly. They're easier to hide than VLC, actually. VLC shows them whenever you move your mouse, whereas with MPC you can move you mouse on screen during playback without the controls appearing until you take it to the bottom.

Re: You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

DVD region locking is illegal in Australia

Re:You Mean...?

[Trongy]

some seriously uptight humourless strain of Aussie has arisen.

They have always been around. The word wowser comes to mind.

Re:You Mean...?

[Stuarticus]

If I'm reading that VLC thread right (this is a problem I haven't had so far, blessed be old hardware) then the RPC2 drives in question won't work with handbrake either as it also relies on Libdvdcss, I could be wrong though. The hardware manufacturers who pull this shit really need to have a long look at themselves for implementing stupidity like this that clearly hurts legitimate customers - people trying to play real DVDs! It's madness.

Re:You Mean...?

[Maritz]

I think I can relate to an extent - I tried using media player to play DVDs on many occasions, and my recollection is that on a good few of those occasions it just didn't work. In those instances, VLC tended to work. Just my personal experience so I don't expect it to conform with everyone else's.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

While that is true. That would not stop the media companies from chasing you via your ISP demanding payment, closure of your service account or whatever other means they use in your region. Something which can be a very nasty and potentially expensive experience even when you are in the right.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it does. Install DeCSS.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why even play DVDs? Just rip them into mp4 or mkv. MPEG2 is awful, transcoding into h.264 is not only more storage efficient, it allows hardware decoding that's built into every video card built in the last eight years.

Re:You Mean...?

[tore]

The first thing I would do to a new PC is install Linux.

Re:You Mean...?

[Bengie]

And hope it works. I've watched DVDs that refused to work correctly on VLC, and some that refused to work correctly with Window's one. Between the two I can watch nearly all DVDs. Even then, I sometimes find a DVD that refuses to play on either, just acts all buggy, then works fine in a standalone DVD player.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

...or just rip it right at home, stick it to the man and then sit back, basking in the glory of some good white collar victimless crime while you watch you film without all the crap about copyright forcibly displayed at the start. Like everyone else.

So long as you don't upload it to the 'tubes, how would 'they' know?

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Entitled to one backup" is a myth. It's not infringing to make a copy strictly for backup purposes, but that's not the same thing as being entitled to make a copy. The limitation of a single backup copy is a feature of some software licenses, not a imposed by law.

Re:You Mean...?

[dywolf]

i dont know what states youre talking about, but in the United States it is legal to possess a copy of a work you own.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two kinds of people in this world - those that need closure.

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

I could not get the windows 8 to play the DVD. I found no program that could do it. Media player certainly couldn't.

I downloaded VLC.

And then what happened? I need closure on this anecdote!

I posted on Slashdot

Re:You Mean...?

[TechyImmigrant]

Did that. Didn't work. Didn't care. Reflashing the drive worked.

Re: You Mean...?

[pruss]

In the US, this solution may run into legal problems due to mpeg2 patents and DMCA issues with DVD decryption. I am guessing the patent issues are why Microsoft dropped the DVD support - to save the $2 per copy the license costs.

Re:You Mean...?

[jellomizer]

Still, with a modern OS (Targeted towards desktop users like Windows), it should be expected play DVD's, by itself. Removing Floppy support, sure I get that we don't use floppy disk anymore. But we can still buy DVD's. It seems premature to remove DVD support.

As for the Legacy games.... They should have just updated the core to stop backwards compatibility and kept them, as they are for the most part still enjoyed.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where exactly do you get Verbatim 25 GB Blu-ray discs for 30 cents each? I would like to know.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

DirectShow has been deprecated since Vista. It was replaced by Media Foundation with the release of Vista.

This announcement just means that Windows 10 will no longer support DirectShow in any capacity, and that everything going forward must use Media Foundation. Since the old DirectShow DVD filter graph was never updated to a Media Foundation transform, there will be no out-of-the-box DVD playback support in Windows 10. I would suspect a lot of other things will break due to this as well.

Re:You Mean...?

[pigiron]

They are called Chinks.

Re:You Mean...?

[david_thornley]

That's not decided, AFAIK. It's very likely fair use, but you never know about fair use until a judge or judges makes a ruling. If you don't have a legit copy, it's illegal.

It is illegal to torrent, because that involves making copies for other people. IIRC, that's what all the big MAFIAA suits have been about.

(BTW, I'm a guy on the net with opinions beyond my formal qualifications. You want to find out something reliable about the law, find a real lawyer.)

Re:You Mean...?

[RPGonAS400]

I use my Blu-ray burner all the time. Verbatim 25 GBs for about 30 cents each.

Where do you get such a deal?

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then he got high

Re: You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

He got high and forgot where he put his DVDs.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sit around and twiddle my thumbs waiting for handbrake or whatever to transcode a DVD or Blu-ray I otherwise own and have in my hand, when I could just play the thing immediately in a player that I paid for and that works well?

No thanks.

Re: You Mean...?

[AvitarX]

I actually didn't even think they sold computers with dvd drives in general.

Re:You Mean...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check Newegg for sales. They discount them all the time.

Re:You Mean...?

[sound vision]

I don't think there are many people playing DVDs on their computer at all. There was a time when someone might not have a standalone DVD player in their house, but their computer might have one. Now it's more like their computer may not have an optical drive at all (esp. if it's a laptop) but they will definitely have a cheap standalone DVD player or a game console if nothing else. Even if they do have a choice, the TV typically is a better display than the computer.

Re:You Mean...?

[Blaskowicz]

Eventually all DVD players ended being sold at "region 0", i.e. ignore all DVD regions. But it seems they made an exception for the US market!

Re:You Mean...?

[toddestan]

That could make things interesting, as there are other things that never made the transition to Media Foundation, such as the DirectShow interface to webcams (and other video devices). Might have to look into that.

Re:You Mean...?

[Wolfrider]

--Of course, if you have a lot of non-US content, it may actually be cheaper/more convenient to have a 2nd drive installed that is permanently locked to that region rather than flashing back and forth... ;-)

No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[bobbied]

Nope, not going to migrate up to 10 from 7 anytime soon if it means media center goes away...

Re: No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to cling to the past over a minor, marginal feature that has plenty of alternatives.

Microsoft shoots itself in the foot.

[Anonymous Coward]

More at 11.

Re:Microsoft shoots itself in the foot.

[Anonymous Coward]

but first... study shows that manchildren with aspergers hate change.

Re:Microsoft shoots itself in the foot.

[zlives]

fuck how many feet do they have

Re:Microsoft shoots itself in the foot.

[Cederic]

I think all people with aspergers hate change, not just manchildren.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[WilliamGeorge]

I am in this quandary myself as well. I am *hoping* that Microsoft (or Ceton, Hauppauge, or someone in this field) releases an "App" that can do everything Media Center does now - and maybe even more. WMC hasn't had any updates of substance in years, and the Netflix plugin for it has become unreliable (for me at least). They wouldn't need to worry about Netflix, Hulu, etc as those all have their own Apps at this point - so an app that was focused on TV watching / recording and playback of locally stored media would really be a perfect way to replace it. We'll see what happens, though...

Well, that's everything I use Windows for

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything else on Linux

Re:Well, that's everything I use Windows for

[Gadget_Guy]

Bullshit. I seriously doubt that you jump out of Linux into Windows just to watch DVDs, run desktop gadgets, perform a Windows Update, play solitaire and use a USB floppy. Are you seriously saying that any of those functions would be worth swapping your current operating system or that Linux didn't amply fill that need?

I bet you didn't even look at the list before posting your anti-Windows jibe.

Re:Well, that's everything I use Windows for

[thunderclap]

Some one actually rebuild the sidebar so it will function with 8 and 10. I downloaded it. and it works. Considering I don't have the update that kills sidebar on my machine (nor the ones that get you ready for 10 they ate too many resources), Its the only thing on the list I cared about.

Re:Well, that's everything I use Windows for

[dbIII]

Not being able to postpone updates renders the machine no longer viable as a games machine which is what quite a few of those Win7 Home installs are used for. Try setting automatic updates and running Skyrim or some other full screen game and you will see what I mean - unexpected reboots without time to save a game are very annoying.
However, if Win10 doesn't have a win7 style start menu (where users can eventually find the program they know is on the system but can't remember the name of) we are going to be in for a lot more annoyance even if it's just helping out relatives. MS have had menu structures for so long that people have remembered the path to launch something instead of the name, and removing that to push people back to a command line style search is a huge game changer. Helping people find stuff in Win8 is already a massive time sink and hardly anyone uses it.

Re:Well, that's everything I use Windows for

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the latest preview.

Windows 7 style it is not. You can not create your own folders (sub menus), and the "all programs" is an alphabetical list like when you swipe to the lower half of the Windows 8 start screen.

Even if you remove search, if you try to navigate the start menu by pressing the first letter of what you start, Windows 10 will still search, so keyboard users are still regarded as second class citizens (search is not reproducible[1], and thus requires you to slow down and actually read what is selected).

For me, this means that I'll likely stick with Windows 7, until my boss decided I need a PC, after which it will be Windows 10 + classic shell (unless he decides to go all Apple, due to the amount of IOS development we do).

[1] Quick, will searching for "vis" give Visio or Visual Studio? Does this change when you have one or the other installed? Such as when you have Visual Studio, and then need to install Visio?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Any one who is serious stays away from the shitty Windows Media Center editions anyway. The real bullshit is that you can't defer updates. Apparently its install all updates or install nothing.

Really, USB floppy?

[bill_mcgonigle]

It's rare that I need to read an old floppy, but if I do it's surely going to be on a USB device - I haven't had a 'real' floppy drive in a decade.

I guess that driver was a such a bear to maintain. Oh, right, nevermind - I've got a linux box where the driver support is better. Oh, hai, 2015.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Zero__Kelvin]

"I guess that driver was a such a bear to maintain."

There is already a perfectly fine Floppy driver. It isn't a car. It doesn't rust with age. Any floppy drive that acheives standards conformance will work, and there is no need to "maintain" the driver. Yes they have to port it to Win 10, however porting and maintenance are two separate and distinct processes. Furthermore, if they can't port it easily then they are doing something seriously fucking incompetent, even by M$ "standards". Also, in case you were unaware of this, Microsoft doesn't maintain the drivers for hardware you bought unless you bought a Microsoft product. Surely you don't think NVidia, Broadcom, Realtek, etc. produce hardware for which Microsoft then creates drivers? The hardware vendors provide their own in most all (if not all) cases where the hardware isn't already standards compliant enough to work with a "standard" driver.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[AMDinator]

FTFA: You can still get the driver from Windows Update. It's just not shipping with the driver on the system image.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

USB floppy drives use a special part of the USB mass storage spec called "UFI" - A spec explicitly added to facillitate the use of USB floppy drives. It provides block level access to 1.44 meg floppy drives. (And nothing else! Unlike old standard low level drives you can't bit-bang your way to reading older formats or employ clever hacks to access old CLV formats like mac 800k floppies)

You can read more about it in the spec:

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/Mass_Storage_Specification_Overview_v1.4_2-19-2010.pdf

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/usbmass-ufi10.pdf

Anyway, I'm guessing someone was redoing the USB stack and dropped UFI support - Probably because it's not changed since windows 95, and floppies have been on their way out since the original bondi blue imac.

You can't even find good USB floppy drives today anyway. All of the ones still made are utter crap and break after any significant use. I've got a stock of old sony ones that are real workhorses and I guard them carefully.. They go on ebay for hundreds of dollars.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess that driver was a such a bear to maintain."

There is already a perfectly fine Floppy driver. It isn't a car. It doesn't rust with age. Any floppy drive that acheives standards conformance will work, and there is no need to "maintain" the driver. Yes they have to port it to Win 10, however porting and maintenance are two separate and distinct processes. Furthermore, if they can't port it easily then they are doing something seriously fucking incompetent, even by M$ "standards". Also, in case you were unaware of this, Microsoft doesn't maintain the drivers for hardware you bought unless you bought a Microsoft product. Surely you don't think NVidia, Broadcom, Realtek, etc. produce hardware for which Microsoft then creates drivers? The hardware vendors provide their own in most all (if not all) cases where the hardware isn't already standards compliant enough to work with a "standard" driver.

The old drivers will probably work perfectly file but they just want to deprecate it so that you don't call them up demanding support.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[ArchieBunker]

It sounds like out of the box usb floppy support is going away. What is stopping anyone from installing a 3rd party driver?

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[NotBornYesterday]

Whoosh, amigo. Whoosh.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can think of a few possible situations at work where a USB floppy drive would be required from time to time (hint: legacy hardware). That said, this is no big deal for me. At my job, anyone walking in with Windows on their computer would be laughed right out the door, with an escort if necessary.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[LeGarcia]

The main reason nobody uses floppies anymore is that the media would corrupt after 2 years... that said, I've never seen a floppy hosting important data since 2002. +

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Zero__Kelvin]

There is no Whoosh here, except the sound in your mind of a phantom Whoosh blowing right past you. (The guy was clearly serious: "Oh, right, nevermind - I've got a linux box where the driver support is better. ".) Please do tell however from whence this imaginary Whoosh comes. Many of us enjoy the entertainment of simple minds (not the band / note no capitals), so please do feel free to entertain us.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

For once, you don't troll. I'm actually impressed and just a little bit hopeful.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[mjwx]

It's rare that I need to read an old floppy, but if I do it's surely going to be on a USB device - I haven't had a 'real' floppy drive in a decade.

Yep, its getting that way. I used to use USB floppy drives for servers... Now days a 5 year old server has no issues accepting drivers from USB flash drives. I haven't even seen a floppy in the office in years. I suspect the next time I do it'll be a non functioning curio on someone's desk, much like an old ISA card or Zune.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[antdude]

I still used 3.5" floppy disks, mostly bootable DOS disks, on very old IBM PCs at my former workplace back in the beginning of this year. Much faster than using the bootable Windows PE discs. :P

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Apparently the driver still exists, it just doesn't ship with the default OS image anymore, and the OS will have to grab it from Windows update. Pretty much the same thing that they do to older printer models and other hardware from time to time.

MS is fairly conservative about actually murdering driver support that they've previously provided(firewire got the axe pretty hard; but most of the casualties are in drivers that only the vendor ever supplied, especially in XP->7 or 32->64 bit); but they've wanted to get the 'size of a windows install' down for a while now(it makes Windows tablets look a bit silly, when the OS uses more space than the lower end Android and iOS tablets have); and the safety of assuming that the customer has an internet connection is probably greater now than ever.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should see a doctor about that stick.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have 5.25" floppies from 1984 that still load up fine on my C64.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA: You can still get the driver from Windows Update. It's just not shipping with the driver on the system image.

I'm really grateful for Microsoft saving 75KiB of disk space by removing such basic functionality.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Bert64]

The USB floppy drive i have works with the standard usb-storage driver on linux (shows up as a very small and slow usb storage device!), i would have expected it to work the same on windows?

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Ulric]

*whoosh*

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Bert64]

Back when floppies were in widespread use, the quality of the media was a lot better. I have a big stack of floppies from the early 90s which were used on an Amiga and most still work just fine, but floppies i bought more recently (even early 2000s) died very quickly.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

oh no, he insulted your internet HONOR!

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder what's so different about USB floppy. I'm fairly certain they're going to keep the driver for optical drives connected through USB and for cardreaders and the like. They're all USB Mass Storage Devices with removable media.

So why did they take out floppy drives?

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I agree that this is a bit silly in a way, still removing all less used features from the system also reduces tha probability of vulnerabilities that could potentially be exploited. Since they will still provide the feature as an optional update, I don't think it's that big of a burden to let driver autodiscovery get the drivers once you plug in your device.

75KiB might not be a lot on its own, but small currents have the potential to grow into a big river.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

wat

Microsoft are suddenly image-size conserving now?
Where were they when the whole Vista branch happened that shot the size of Windows up considerably?

A single driver that would actually probably still be useful in a professional / business setting should be there. Especially when it is the USB form of it that was used to replace the actual slottable drives.
They do still have the driver for the drives, right?

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[AmiMoJo]

Calm down, they did "port" it (more like just tested it and said "okay, it works") to Windows 10. It's just not in the base install. Cutting down on bloat for the 99% of people who don't need it, which is a good thing, right? And for the 1% who do want it their PC will automatically download and install it as soon as they plug the drive in.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[peppepz]

Oh, I had the same experience and I thought that it was the quality of the drives to be declining.

However, to be honest, I recall having problems with failing floppies all the way back to the 80s. On the C64, the drive would begin making a LOUD rattling sound as if its head had fallen off the disk and it was banging against the end of the rail; given my age at that time, this usually happened while a game was loading the last level that I had been playing for half a day to reach (no savegames back then). On the PC, I still remember how many times I found myself torturing the R key at the "Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail" prompt, usually to no avail. A friend of mine recommended me to put the failing floppies inside the fridge and try reading them again while they were fresh.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[olterman]

The demand for floppy support is probably "periodical": people needing to go through their own/father's/mother's old files and move them to new media. They are probably using some sophisticated algorithms to drop floppy support. I guess most of these files have already been transferred to new media so not enough profit is created to justify new production.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[olterman]

"End of extended support" for Windows 7 is "January 14, 2020". You still have time... And companies do no switch until absolutely necessary: "don't fix if ain't broke".

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about an internal floppy? Still have a 3.5 and 5 1/4 dual floppy drive in my computer.
Never know when you need to pull a file from an old archive.

It sits right below my Zip 100 Drive and a media card reader.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Zalbik]

It's more likely that it was a PITA to certify / support drivers for a device they decided was only used by a very small fraction of their users.

Presumably manufacturers will still provide drivers, just Microsoft is saying they won't certify / provide them by default anymore.

This makes total sense for fringe devices.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bruh, you can't be that dense. Plus, yeah, we get that you didn't mean the band. I'm glad you studied English and understand proper spelling of Pronouns. So can every 4th grader.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Dude, we really don't need you to regurgitate the sounds you hear blowing past your head here on Slashdot. Now off you go little moron.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm your typical poster who didn't RTA. So I too am furious that Microsoft would bother to reduce the code base by only 75kb. This is the kind of laid back work ethic I enjoy, where do I submit my resume?

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Zero__Kelvin]

What kind of moron replies to what I posted with "Calm Down"? Not only was I in now way "uncalm", bit I never suggested that the driver wasn't available. My entire post was about the stupidity of stating that "maintenance of the floppy driver is a bear". It has literally nothing to do with the availability or lack thereof of said driver in Windows 10. Here's hoping you find a way to drastically improve your reading comprehension!

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can Windows 10 read VHS? That would be swell.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem a trifle upset.

Re:Really, USB floppy?

[AmiMoJo]

What kind of moron replies to what I posted with "Calm Down"?

Me, obviously. Duh.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[spire3661]

The problem is that not long after Win 10 goes live, MS will cutoff the show listings, effectively killing the live TV feature.

I'm on win 7..

[Anonymous Coward]

And I have the upgrade icon on my taskbar. When I use the customize option to turn on hide icon and notifications of it, it comes back the next time I turn on the PC. I fear I may press the upgrade button when I am drunk and regret it mightily the next morning, can anyone help?

Re: I'm on win 7..

[Anonymous Coward]

It lets you cancel your acceptance. It also lets you cancel your cancellation, which is nice and amusing.

Re: I'm on win 7..

[Anonymous Coward]

So you can cancel your acceptance, and you can accept your cancelation?

That's like the old one: She offered her honor, he honored her offer, and all night long it was honor and offer.

Re:I'm on win 7..

[networkzombie]

(Same in Windows 7, 8, and 8.1) Go to Task Scheduler.
In the scheduler library: \Microsoft\Windows\Setup\gwx
Disable task: launchtrayprocess
Disable task: refreshgwxconfig
Then open Task Manager, select gwx.exe, select End Task.

I also disable these tasks in scheduler library:
\Microsoft\Windows\Customer Experience Improvement Program:
Disable task: Consolidator
Disable task: KernelCeipTask
Disable task: UsbCeip

\Microsoft\Windows\Application Experience:
Disable task: AitAgent
Disable task: Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser
Disable task: ProgramDataUpdater

Re:I'm on win 7..

[Skylinux]

I have noticed that rundll32.exe has been attempting to access the Internet once a day.

Disabling "Program Compatibility Assistant Service" stopped that behavior.

Re:I'm on win 7..

[ITRambo]

(1) In Programs and Features open Updates. Uninstall KB3035583. (2) Run Windows Update. Right mouse click and hide KB3035583.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[spire3661]

Only XP had a special MCE version of the OS. After that it was baked in.

Let's be realistic...

[JMJimmy]

You mean someone uses Windows built-in DVD playback? The first thing I've done on a new computer for the last five or six years is install VLC.

First thing is install a new browser, second thing is install adblock plus, the third is to install VLC.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

I skip VLC and go straight for CCCP for Media Player Classic.

Maybe it was a bad couple of years when I stopped using VLC, but I've had little reason to look back after ignoring it.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[The MAZZTer]

I think you mean second thing is to import your browser profile from your old PC (including adblock plus).

Re:Let's be realistic...

[JMJimmy]

Touche.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

First thing is install a new browser, second thing is install adblock plus, the third is to install VLC.

First thing is go to ninite.com, second thing is click a bunch of checkboxes, the third is to go make a pot of coffee.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have those guys at VLC discovered V-Sync yet?

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

the third is to go make a pot of coffee.

Error 418 - I'm a teapot

Re:Let's be realistic...

[PRMan]

Ninite.com FTW!

Re:Let's be realistic...

[temcat]

I see this ninite.com thing advertised aggressively in Slashdot comments nowadays. After a quick look, the free version doesn't let me lock a program to a specific version, so if I update, I have to update all software that Ninite manages. Frankly, that sucksâ"much like Windows 10 that won't let me defer updates anymore.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[temcat]

And Slashdot sucks for still not letting me insert an m-dash.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Jumunquo]

I used to use CCCP on MPC, but now I've moved on KCP because it sets up MadVR for MPC, which gives you vastly superior processing options for scaling and postprocessing a video up to the full size of your screen. The smaller and noisier the source, the bigger the difference you see. You can set up MadVR manually as well. Also, some people prefer the more modern look of the MPC-BE fork of Media Player Classic (instead of the main line MPC-HC).

I only use VLC on non-Windows machines, like my Macbook (and on there, the tiny playback bar that's like only 1/4 of the horizontal screen drives me nuts - not sure if that's just because my display is high rez at 2560x1440).

Re: Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was me advertising it a few times in a single thread a few days ago. I'm not affiliated, I just love it to bits.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

In CCCP, VLC skips you!

Re:Let's be realistic...

[Anonymous Coward]

I see this ninite.com thing advertised aggressively in Slashdot comments nowadays. After a quick look, the free version doesn't let me lock a program to a specific version, so if I update, I have to update all software that Ninite manages. Frankly, that sucksâ"much like Windows 10 that won't let me defer updates anymore.

(Posting AC to preserve mods, but this is important)

When you run a Ninite installer, yes it will update all apps packaged with that installer. But you can download as many installers as you want. So I download one installer at initial PC setup that installs everything, then I make an installer that only updates the programs I want to update, and sometimes I get a Ninite installer for a single program, just so I don't have to worry about bundled crap. So Ninite is still the answer.

E.g., let's say you've got your system up and running, and PDF Creator keeps bugging you to update. Just go here and download the PDF Creator updater.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[dfsmith]

I think—in the context of the m-dash issue—that you're doing it wrong.

Re:Let's be realistic...

[temcat]

I tested it—looks like an intermittent glitch. Wherever I insert m-dash as a character using an AHK hotkey, it works—it's only Slashdot that gives me problems from time to time. This may depend on the preceding character. Of course, I can insert an entity, but hey, isn't it 2015?

How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I have a win7 home machine. Suddenly this icon "free upgrade to Win 10" has popped up next to the clock in the notification area. It pops open a window that says, " it is not a trial version. It is the real deal. Click now and we will download and upgrade you to win 10 when it is released". There is no way to dismiss the icon and stop it. I am not going to upgrade, not with the subscription model they seem to be moving to. How do you get rid of this icon? Worried my better half might click ok by mistake thinking it is a good deal.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

So much for that half being the better one.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[TypoNAM]

Here's an article that lists what Windows updates to remove to do just that. It's primarily KB3035583 that's responsible for the nag screen. However there's several other updates that are suspect to be causing performance and spying/'telemetry' that wasn't occurring until fairly recently.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to uninstall a windows update, just google it to find out. And fyi... there is no "subscription model" that's just a rumor with no legitimate source

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[YrWrstNtmr]

To remove:
http://microsoft-news.com/how-to-remove-windows-10-upgrade-notification-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/


And Win 10 will not be a subscription model.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[SeaFox]

There is no way to dismiss the icon and stop it. I am not going to upgrade, not with the subscription model they seem to be moving to. How do you get rid of this icon?

I was fine with just going into the advanced settings for the System Tray and setting the icon to be one of the always hidden ones, so I wouldn't have to see it all the time, but even that doesn't work. Windows changes the setting back on it's own.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/01/how-to-block-the-windows-10-update-notification-in-earlier-versions-of-windows/

1.Tap on the Windows-key on the keyboard, type programs and features, and hit enter. This opens the list of software installed on the system.
2.Switch to "view installed updates" on the left side of the window.
3.If you are using Windows 7, locate the following updates: 3035583, 2952664, 3021917
4.If you are using Windows 8, locate the following updates: 3035583, 2976978
5.Right-click one update after the other and select uninstall from the context menu.
6.Select Restart Later when the prompt appears and remove all updates first from the system.
7.Once done, restart the computer to complete the process.

To block these updates, do the following:
1.Tap on the Windows-key, type Windows Update, and hit enter.
2.This should open the Windows Update dialog.
3.Select "check for updates" to find new updates to install on the system. Windows should find the updates listed above again.
4.Click on the "important update is available" link.
5.Right-click each of the listed updates above that are listed on the page and select hide update from the context menu.
6.This blocks the update from being installed on the system.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Zero__Kelvin]

I guess you missed the fact that he chose Windows as an OS. I have no doubt she is the better half, and if he had simply picked an OS that isn't designed from the ground up to be secure against any user attempts to improve it while simultaneously welcoming all comers in the malware market, then his better half would not be able to bork it, now, could she?

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[rwa2]

So I had an OEM version of Win7 on my gaming PC until the C: OS drive died. Couldn't reinstall, so I just broke down and reinstalled a pirated version onto the replacement disk and plugged my game disk back in.

It's great, absolutely no nags for anything ever, all it does is run Steam, which auto-updates stuff as painlessly as apt or yum.

Well, almost no nags... Steam still wants Adobe Flash.

And since the kids occasionally want to play Minecraft, I get the silly Oracle Java nags too.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a specific Windows update, KB3035583. Go uninstall it.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

not with the subscription model they seem to be moving to

Its amazing that people are still confused about the free upgrade. They are not going to charge you next year when the free upgrade offer ends. They aren't going be moving windows 10 to a sub model. You'll still be buying oem or retail copies of windows 10 when you are building a new machine - you can do so RIGHT NOW on newegg if you really wanted to. They've explicitly stated this.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdotters are no better than anyone else. They're human like everyone else, and hence fall prone to not actually doing any research and just fall for whatever gossip they hear on a whim.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[linebackn]

Seriously, how does Microsoft get away with this shit? Virus scanners should block this "update" as malware. And Microsoft should be sued. Your average Windows 7 user isn't going to know how to uninstall this crap.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[recoiledsnake]

No, look at the poster, they're very prolific and very anti-MS, it's just FUD at this point.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously people are super paranoid that Microsoft is being evil by releasing a new version of their OS that is substantially better than any previous version for a free upgrade. There is no trick here. Microsoft is sick of supporting old versions and wants people to get on the evergreen windows model. Monolithic versions are not required nowadays due to the internet. Monolithic versions is what killed IE and Microsoft has learned from this.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Have you never clicked on the "Customize" option for the notification area? Set it to hide icons & notifications and it goes away. Was it really that hard?

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Download your favorite Linux or BSD distribution, install and never look back.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[thegarbz]

not with the subscription model they seem to be moving to

Except there's no subscription model. Stop spreading this FUD.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[freeze128]

I don't want to live in the same world that you do... The one where people don't know how to use their computers, so instead they SUE other companies!

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, from the Minecraft download page: "Download and run Minecraft.msi. This will install Minecraft and create a shortcut in your start menu. If you'd like a version without an installer, you may use Minecraft.exe instead. You do not need Java installed to run either of these."

So, I think no separate java anymore.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[EmeraldBot]

Seriously, how does Microsoft get away with this shit? Virus scanners should block this "update" as malware. And Microsoft should be sued. Your average Windows 7 user isn't going to know how to uninstall this crap.

Sooooo..... A free offer for the next version of the OS that is trivially removable with the most basic of knowledge counts as "malware" now? And you want to SUE them for this?

.............

You remind me a lot of an incompetent manager. Praytell, is that your job?

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Authoritative information, straight from the AC's keyboard, with no links to back it up. I'm sold!

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[PRMan]

Pro Tip I learned yesterday: You can just drag it onto the little up-arrow.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Download your favorite Linux or BSD distribution, install and never look back.

For someone with a very nicely setup Windows system this seems a little extreme (not to mention completely unrealistic) approach to dealing with a notification icon you don't want.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was no link to back up the assertion that a subscription model is going to be required.

Every cite is something like this: "http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/01/microsoft-wraps-its-windows-10-pitch-heres-what-you-need-to-know/#.xxiwkc:PNW7"

They don't explicitly say there's no subscription model for the same reason they don't explicitly say that you don't have to donate a litre of blood every month you use the software. They said the price, and the price was free (for the home SKU).

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[gl4ss]

you know why it's there, right?

it's there so that someone who sits on the computer would press it without knowing what it is.

and then they will be enjoying METRO MINESWEEPERRRRR.

they know it's annoying. they know you don't want it popping up there. it's just there that someone clicks on it and then later, sometime later, it will install windows 10 on your machine without asking you again(potentially).

for the record, I haven't noticed seeing the same on 8.1 pro. probably because 8.1 already has metro.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[SeaFox]

Pro Tip I learned yesterday: You can just drag it onto the little up-arrow.

Hey, that is pretty easy...
Except I just checked the settings. Doing it that way changes the icon to "Only Show Notifications" mode -- not "always hide icon and notification", so it could still pop-up (if it was a well-behaved icon I mean, ignoring that Microsoft is overriding the setting anyway).

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

Yes and companies never would lie, change their minds, or decide that maybe they shouldn't be giving away their main cash cow for free. Take a look at god damn apple to see where microsoft wants to be in 5 years.

Its pretty fucking simple. They don't sell hardware, they dont sell services. How the fuck are they going to make money giving away their shit for free? Its a bait and switch, its a crack dealer and comments like this AC are naive crack whores. Shits gonna change, and everyone else is doing it.

"They've explicitly stated this."

Obama explicitly stated that he would reign in the NSA. Lying is fucking commonplace when your society has a collective memory only 140 characters deep.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[zephvark]

Seriously people are super paranoid that Microsoft is being evil by releasing a new version of their OS that is substantially better than any previous version for a free upgrade. There is no trick here. Microsoft is sick of supporting old versions and wants people to get on the evergreen windows model.

Perhaps Microsoft should create a version of Windows that people actually want to upgrade to, then? Personally, I loathe the "modern" /cough Windows 3 flat icons, and they keep dropping features that I actually use, and always, always re-arranging the furniture just so something Looks Different. Flat icons are just another ridiculous "change for the sake of change": flat, 3D this way, 3D that way, oh WTH, let's go back to flat again, we can use 3D icons in Windows 10... I mean, Windows 11, because Windows 9 is Windows 10, because, seriously... Microsoft.

I'm fine with Windows 7, thanks. I'm on a Mac/Windows machine, and I dropped using OSX because of those damned flat icons and some intrusive "you have mail!"-type notices that can't be permanently shut off. Of course, if something goes wrong on a Mac, you're not going to find useful tech support, either. If something goes wrong on Windows, in the odd event I can't fix it offhand, I'll just have to pick from the first 500,000 googled solutions.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many updates lists. You only need to uninstall (and subsequently hide) the 3035583 update. This is the one that once removed will also remove the C:\Windows\system32\GWX directory and hence the tray icon and associated resources. Anything else is just removing unrelated updates that are probably quite harmful and beneficial to you.

BTW - ghacks is a tripe of a support site. It's barely above basic support that a teenager might know.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[iampiti]

Hey, don't complain!, it's for your own *cough Microsoft's *cough benefit ;)

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

There will be a subscription model. 100% certain.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[SeaFox]

I don't want to live in the same world that you do... The one where people don't know how to use their computers, so instead they SUE other companies!

Sounds like you've never worked a helpdesk job. The ones where you deal with people who run "Internet-based businesses" but don't really how how to use their computer or understand how things like their Internet access, email, web hosting, or search engine results work.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Win 10 is the tool used to move people to a subscription model. Expect that Windows 10 will always default to save things in the cloud, and one day it will default to open things on cloud services where you can't edit until you subscribe. Windows itself doesn't need to be a subscription model, but Office will be a subscription model. Many software packages will become a subscription model. Keep on saying 'Windows will never be a subscription model' and keep on ignoring how major software makers are moving towards subscription models, and you will end up with a system where Windows is the only piece of software that isn't on a subscription model, while you are paying hundreds a month for the 'killer apps' on your beloved Windows eco system and think 'when did this happen?'

Of course they will still offer 'for free' bits of software to make you addicted to their eco-system. But once you will need the software for your work, expect to pay a premium price.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

you base your OS decisions on the flatness of icons? solid decision making there.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had Windows revert that setting for this nag icon on me at least once.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Obama explicitly stated that he would reign in the NSA."

Are you intentionally making a clever pun, or is it just that you can't spell?

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

And a fine friend you turned out to be!

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[recoiledsnake]

Thanks for being a part of the anti-MS circlejerk that ruined Slashdot over the years and turned it to a boring echochamber. No wonder it's dead.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm going to get ass fucked, then goddammit it better be by a GOOD looking bitch.

Re:How to get rid of the free upgrade icon?

[Zumbs]

Sooooo..... A free offer for the next version of the OS that is trivially removable with the most basic of knowledge counts as "malware" now? And you want to SUE them for this?

Trivially removable would be to provide a dismiss item to the context menu. Having to figure out that it came with a windows update and which one to remove to get rid of the icon required actual work on my part. I agree that it is silly to suggest suing MS for a free upgrade, but I *do* find it to be bad manners on their part to not supply an easy way to remove their advertising from my desktop. Sort of like a guest not leaving her or his muddy shoes at the entrance to your home.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[DaHat]

You realize the last "Media Center Edition" was XP... right? Media Center was built into the higher SKUs of Vista & 7 and available as a quick and relatively cheap add in ($15?) for 8... free keys for which they gave away for quite a while. ... or are you saying that XP was crap? ... which would be an unusual view on /. these days.

Re: No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[bobbied]

Way to cling to the past over a minor, marginal feature that has plenty of alternatives.

Which alternatives? Look, most of the alternatives have issues due to DRM and Media Center is the ONLY solution that deals with this because it's the only fully certified one.

Are there any solutions out there that I'm not aware of? Something that will get me past the DRM issues and let me play my recorded off cable programs which are marked protected?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Serious question. Have you looked at KODI? I stopped using MCE, must be 5+ years ago, because I hit serious limitations in its capabilities. Such as support for both analogue and digital tuners (less an issue now, and it could be forced with a reg hack), the inability to specify how long it should record before and after a show (the options are too short especially for sports), the fact the system croaked under load if you had lots of videos.

I went from MCE to a Mythtv setup but have now moved to xbmc / kodi. Now that kodi supports tuners and recording schedules it is perfect. And it is simple to setup and manage.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Nethemas the Great]

I'm not so much concerned with Media Center as I am with the underpinnings. What games are they playing with Media Foundation and DirectShow?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Visit kodi.tv you will never ever ever look back. Simply put it is the pinnacle of home media centre systems. Simple to setup, runs on windows, linux, mac and has a million plugins and companion apps on android & iOS

What an upgrade!

[RazorJ_2000]

Upgrade? Sounds like a downgrade to me.
Seriously, what's the benefit to upgrade to a downgraded OS? Sounds like XP to Vista all over again.

Re:What an upgrade!

[PRMan]

So...you haven't tried it?

Re:What an upgrade!

[thegarbz]

Sounds like XP to Vista all over again

Yep. Sounds like some people are latching on to one barely used feature and ignoring the many many benefits of the OS upgrade, just like the XP to Vista move.

For the record most of the depreciated features listed have been replaced by something else. But that doesn't fit your narrative very well does it.

Re:What an upgrade!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it IS Windows X.
They just took a saw to the P(rograms) and left the X all itself.
What is X? By Microsofts own words, it may as well be a whitehole. "The OS that just keeps giving!"

Re:What an upgrade!

[cerberusss]

Well, my significant other uses a cobbled-together desktop PC. It's an oldie, but with an SSD, Windows 8 runs actually pretty well because it was already slimmed down (as compared to 7) and would with with 1 GB RAM. Removal of these features means she'll get longer usage out of her PC.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[YrWrstNtmr]

Direct from MS:
"Windows Media Center is not part of Windows 10 and won’t be available after upgrading to Windows 10. If you use Windows Media Center, we will alert you during upgrade that Windows Media Center is not available on Windows 10. We know that some users use Windows Media Center to play DVDs, and we are providing a free DVD playback app in Windows 10 for Windows Media Center users."

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq

deferring updates (Home edition)

[phorm]

That one kinda sucks. As it is it's a bit of a pisser when I'm in the middle of something, have deferred an update, and the next deferral times out causing it to reboot my PC on me....

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, have you noticed how just about every Patch Tuesday for the last 6 months, one of the updates winds up causing serious problems for a significant subset of users? Infinite boot loops and black screens are a common problem now. Running Windows Update has turned into a spin of the roulette wheel.

There's absolutely no way I'm installing updates as they arrive on a consumer Windows machine ever again. I'm going to wait a week for everyone else to encounter problems so Microsoft can roll back the update. If they're taking that capability away from Windows 10, I will absolutely not upgrade.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Anonymous Coward]

I would be interested to know how the deferring updates will effect the downloading of the actual updates themselves. I live in a country that is mostly quota and currently looking at mobile data for the next several months. Not looking forward to a "we just downloaded a service pack for you" followed by the email "you have used over your quota, we have charged you $x extra for the next Y GB of data".

For my current internet, that is $10 AUD for 1GB(*) mobile data.

Not a great "one size fits all" idea from MS.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[WryCoder]

What do you mean, "my PC"?

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Anonymous Coward]

Most updates are only few megabytes.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[stkris]

This is what I worry about too. I am on the road 70% of the time and would like to continue downloading upgrades only when I'm on a landline.
If this cannot be controlled it will be a serious downgrade for me to use windows 10.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[stkris]

Is that how it works on win7 now when you have everything on "automatic"? I have all set to "manual" so that I can 1) avoid costly downloads over my mifi connection and 2) time upgrades to run when it suits me.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I disable updates.
It's the stupidest thing they could have done.
Why does the PC need to reboot anyway, and why does it need to reboot a specific amount of time after an update.
Just let me reboot when I'm ready to reboot.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Opportunist]

That's exactly the reason why you can't defer it. Home users are the guinea pigs for the enterprise cash cows.

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[Opportunist]

And if it's a few bytes, if I don't want it, I don't want to pay for it. For reference, see ads and adblocker.

Seriously, do I have to install a "windows update blocker" now?

Re:deferring updates (Home edition)

[MrL0G1C]

Like hell are they, After re-installing win7 there was well over a thousand meg of updates, every time .net updates - it's typically hundreds of meg.

And I swear it must have been a dozen or so reboots to get the machine up to date (over a day or two), why can't windows update in one go?

Windows 10 sounds like some shitty DRM laden spying crap, I'll be leaving it until the last minute to upgrade, if I bother at all.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[TheRealQuestor]

Does it record from my Ceton HD quad tuner with cable card? [and yes all of our channels are drm/encrypted]
Does its TV Guide no longer suck?

When it can do those 2 simple things 1/2 as well as MediaCenter then maybe I'd consider using XMBC again, but until then MediaCenter is my go to software running on my media center machine.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[bobbied]

I have not looked that close as I only got my cable card tuner last month so I'm new to this. I found out that my Windows 7 home premium box already had software for this so that's what I'm using, along with a couple of XBoxes for extenders.

Does KODI handle the DRM and let you record/playback protected content off of cable?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Mr D from 63]

I am in this quandary myself as well. I am *hoping* that Microsoft (or Ceton, Hauppauge, or someone in this field) releases an "App" that can do everything Media Center does now - and maybe even more.>

Silicondust is working on a cablecard solution that is not windows DRM/Media Center dependent. Lets cross our fingers and hope CableLabs approves their approach.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[afidel]

Kodi doesn't work with cablecard (yet, the guys at SiliconDust just had a kickstarter campaign for support, though unfortunately the first gen Prime isn't supported so it won't be a solution for early adopters)

No USB Floppy Drive?

[denobug]

What! No USB Floppy Drive? What is Microsoft thinking!!!

Re:No USB Floppy Drive?

[rwa2]

What! No USB Floppy Drive? What is Microsoft thinking!!!

That the people still holding onto their floppy drives probably aren't their target market for upgrading past Win98SE ?

Wonder if ZipDrives still work... I'm not sure if my current PC even has a parallel port anymore...

Re:No USB Floppy Drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

What! No USB Floppy Drive? What is Microsoft thinking!!!

My guess is you don't work in IT. Or, if you do, you work somewhere run by and for twenty-somethings. USB Floppy Drives can come in handy now and then when dealing with mission critical hardware older than your average Millennial.

Re:No USB Floppy Drive?

[maxwells_deamon]

parrallel port and ide zip drives lost support somewhere like window 7 or 8 IIRC. last time I tried it, USB zip drives even worked on windows 10.

Re:No USB Floppy Drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a $10,000 piece of laboratory test equipment that can only output data with a 3 1/2" floppy drive. There are plenty of use cases out there that you can no imagine, and they don't always involve luddites.

Re:No USB Floppy Drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a USB 1.1 Zip drive in translucent blue. It still works since I never put any heavy usage on it. I have a few of the disks, too.

I don't use it, so it will never have the click of death! Never!

The only thing I ever used those disks for was to store (pirated) copies of the Marathon games. I never did play any of them, since they freaked out from the presence of the EPROM-flashed Voodoo 3 I had installed in that old beige G3...

My formative computing years were strange. Very strange.

"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately old versions of windows games run great on Macs & Linux boxes with WINE or DOSBOX. I've never been able to get Worms2 to work under Win7, but it runs great everywhere else. Pity nobody ever ported WINE to Windows. Why am I using Windows again?

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[Anonymous Coward]

RHEL 7, and its third party repository EPEL, have no 32-bit version of Wine. Since there is no published 32-bit version of RHEL 7, not even of CentOS, it's a bit of a nightmare to get wine working for old 32-bit applications.

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[Anonymous Coward]

RHEL 7, and its third party repository EPEL, have no 32-bit version of Wine. Since there is no published 32-bit version of RHEL 7, not even of CentOS, it's a bit of a nightmare to get wine working for old 32-bit applications.

True, but since RHEL 7 and CentOS are primarily designed to be server and/or enterprise desktop operating systems, their target audience isn't likely to care much about getting old games to run on it, and any business that still depends on ancient Windows software probably has several dozen spare vintage PCs and Windows licenses in storage to keep the old code going long enough to find an alternative or until those responsible for it retire, whichever comes first. Maybe you'd have better luck getting those games to run with a more general purpose Debian or Ubuntu based distribution?

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[gl4ss]

I'll bet you 100 bucks that the old minesweeper will _run_ on windows 10.

so why are they replacing it? they are replacing it to "guide" you to using the new Microsoft Minesweeper available from their app store. nothing more to it. they just want to "guide" people to making ms accounts and downloading stuff off their appstore. you know the same appstore that was the entire reason for windows 8. still pulling the same fucking trick ms.. same trick..

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, a convenient place to get/update software similar to the stores people are used to on their mobile device (and Mac and Linux). How dare they!

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[Opportunist]

I wonder how many Mrs. Fuck Youtoo's will sign up for their store...

Re:"...Old versions of Windows Games..."

[CronoCloud]

There's always Fedora, which DOES have a 32 bit wine available.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[dslbrian]

I really don't get their stance on WMC. I have two media PCs running Win7 essentially only for WMC (more specifically the Live TV + free scheduling it has, vs Kodi/XBMC). Lacking WMC there is really no reason I wouldn't run Linux and kick them out. If they are trying to increase their presence on HTPCs in the living room it makes no sense. I would consider Roku and such but I need web browser capability.

There was some bizarre comment about people only using it for DVD playback. I don't know where they got that feedback from. I know several people who have WMC setups only for it's added Live TV PVR capability.

Not quite dead.

[westlake]

Some of the deprecated features include: Media Center, out-of-the-box DVD playback and USB floppy support, desktop gadgets, deferring updates (Home edition), old versions of Windows games, and Windows Live Essentials version of OneDrive.

If you have a USB floppy drive, you will need to download the latest driver from Windows Update or from the manufacturer's website.

If you have Windows Live Essentials installed on your system, the OneDrive application is removed and replaced with the inbox version of OneDrive.

Windows 10 Specifications: Feature deprecation section

In a separate FAQ, Microsoft says it is ''providing a free DVD playback app in Windows 10 for Windows Media Center users.''

Here Are the Features Windows 10 Will Remove When You Upgrade, Windows 10 Q&A: Will Windows Media Center be available in Windows 10?

Remove Solitaire? Nooooooo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bummer. Windows 7 Solitaire is already on Windows 7. It works fine and doesn't require a Microsoft account. No need to be rude and steal the old Solitaire.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[rsmith-mac]

The problem is that not long after Win 10 goes live, MS will cutoff the show listings, effectively killing the live TV feature.

Huh? Microsoft has announced no such thing. Media Center is a part of Win7/8 and will be supported as part of the OSes for their respective lifecycles.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[bobbied]

Further, let's hope Silicondust makes the software available for their existing customer base... I'm guessing that's as likely as them having the resources to actually get though the certification process....

Snowball's chance is what I give it... This market is *really* a dying thing. Cord cutters are axing cable provider subscriptions right and left and every one of those that leave is one less potential customer for Silicondust's primary market. This is why Microsoft is bailing on the Media Center thing in the first place.

Best we could hope for is to get some open source project to go though the CableLabs process, which is less likely than Silicondust's effort. Any software that could possibly hope to get CableLabs approval would likely have to close at least parts of the source to get approval, then they would likely be subject to patent claims for the Codex's they'd have to use and get themselves sued by the open source crowd trying to get the confidential bits of closed source.... Clearly not going to happen.

One huge reason

[ArchieBunker]

VLC has a real audio compressor plugin. No longer am I subjected to whisper quiet dialog and action scenes that cause hearing damage. No compression is not the same as normalizing either. Loud passages are toned down and quiet ones are amplified, like how movies used to be.

Re:One huge reason

[JMJimmy]

What's it called? I want to install it! :)

Re:One huge reason

[theArtificial]

Seconded.

Re:One huge reason

[ArchieBunker]

Its already part of VLC. Click on Tools > Effects and filters > Compressor tab.

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Pfft, dynamic compression is passe. All good players will handle ReplayGain.

Re:One huge reason

[JMJimmy]

Any recommended settings? It's not exactly intuitive for a non-audio guy.

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a bit old but lifehacker had a story on it a while ago:

http://lifehacker.com/5920290/how-to-fix-movies-that-are-really-quiet-then-really-loud

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Check this out! http://www.geekality.net/2013/11/01/settings-for-vlc-dynamic-range-compression/

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Compressor settings will vary dependent on source material (for optimal experience). It's simple enough to get your head round once you have it explained though. Attack is the time for the compressor to kick in (think of it as a delay before gain change). Release is the time until the compressor stops compressing once triggered. OK so then you have ratio which correlates to the amount of gain change once compression is occurring, higher the ratio the more the volume will be modified. Threshold is the volume level at which to apply compression. Knee don't worry too much about and make up gain is useful when you really have to squash something but then result in a much lower overall signal.

Some starting settings might be:

Attack: 12ms (To allow the transients through to give definition)
Release: 20ms or so but if there are lots of huge explosions you might want to move out to around 50 ish
Threshold: Fiddle till happy but -10db seems a good a starting point as any
Ratio: 2-3 ish (higher ratios will lead to more pronounced "ducking" or "pumping")
Make Up Gain: Fiddle till happy

That is the best I can remember it anyway, its been a while since I played with one in any kind of professional setting :)

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bugged, it doesn't actually work. The only setting that does anything is the post-compression gain. The compressor doesn't compress.

Re:One huge reason

[Stuarticus]

ReplayGain is normalisation not compression, it won't correct the problem being discussed here, it will just make all your files approximately the same average volume, quiet sections will still be too quiet and loud sections still too loud. I realise I'm replying to AC, just in case anyone tries to follow this poor advice.

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet it works beautifully here for the exact same issue.

Don't talk about shit you clearly have zero knowledge of, son.

Re:One huge reason

[Anonymous Coward]

This is how it should be though: the uncompressed sound is distributed, so that people who want it get it (you cannot 'uncompress' the audio if it's distributed pre-compressed), while playback software or hardware includes a compression option for people who prefer compressed audio and situations when it is inappropriate. The complaint should be that compression is not a more common feature in playback software and hardware, and that it is poorly promoted. (Perhaps it should be somehow on by default for uncompressed content.)

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[basscomm]

If they are trying to increase their presence on HTPCs in the living room it makes no sense.

Sure it does. They want you to buy an Xbox One instead.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[tompaulco]

It's an operating system. Why does an operating system need to come with an app for playing media? They should sell the base OS for a reasonable price and then sell (or freely distribute) these other add-ons separately. I really haven't seen a whole lot of growth in the functionality that I use in the last 20 years of Microsoft OSes, but they have increased in size from fitting on a couple of floppies to multiple gigabytes now.
The Microsoft would just focus on making their OS an OS, then it wouldn't have all of the instabilities that it is famous for.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

And is a usability nightmare. The people doing the UI for kodi have no idea how to make a simple, intuitive interface.

Solitaire

[tverbeek]

I know a whole bunch of people who are going to be upset about Solitaire going away. I work for a retirement community, and the second-most-used application on the computers in the activity center (after "The Internet") is Solitaire. We're going to have to install a substitute on these machines (or their replacements) when we switch to WinX, or we'll never hear the end of the complaints.

Re:Solitaire

[Gaygirlie]

You can find all the classic games on the Internet as a simple installer, though. Solitaire doesn't exist in Windows 8 either and I recently had to find and install it on a Win8 - laptop for an older person. I don't remember where I downloaded it, but the link in http://techtoy.co.uk/microsoft... seems to be more-or-less the same. (I have not installed that version so I haven't checked it for viruses, I'm sure you can do that yourself.)

Re:Solitaire

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a free app in the Windows Store called "Microsoft Solitaire Collection", it's made by Microsoft and works just like the previous solitaires. I have it on my dinky little HP Stream laptop and it works perfectly.

Microsoft Solitaire Collection

Re:Solitaire

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll forgive you for missing this nugget buried in a completely unrelated article, but the first line clearly states that the Windows Solitaire Suite will be included in Windows 10 (it was only 8 that went without, as if anyone needed another reason to dislike 8)

Re:Solitaire

[thegarbz]

Only the game as it has been shipped with the OS has been depreciated. It hasn't gone away entirely. TFS didn't mention that the reason for the depreciation was that these programs have been for the most part replaced with alternatives.

Simply open up the Windows App Store and install Microsoft Solitaire collection which will give you back Solitaire and FreeCell.

Re:Solitaire

[thegarbz]

Or just type Solitaire into the Windows App Store and download Microsoft Solitaire.

Re:Solitaire

[spire3661]

Have to have a microsoft account for that. My windows 8 machines run local accounts.

Re:Solitaire

[Gaygirlie]

Alas, it's a Metro-version. Not everyone likes the new Metro-version and wants the classic version instead, including the person I set up with the classic games.

Re:Solitaire

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.banggood.com

Re:Solitaire

[williamyf]

This pain me the most. Not because of solitaire/spidersolitaire/minesweeper per se, but because of the high scores and statistics.....

Anyhow, a small price to pay for a free upgrade and consistency across machines.

And since my plan is to upgrade my three machines (Toshiba Win 7, MacBook Aluminum Late 2008 bootcamp Win 7 and MacBook Air 13" Early 2015 Bootcamp Win8.1) in the December downturn/downtime, I may find a way to move those....

Re:Solitaire

[Anonymous Coward]

I expect to help a lot of people make Microsoft accounts and download the new solitaire from the app store, and then never hear the end of how they like the old one better.

Re:Solitaire

[Calydor]

Look up Pretty Good Solitaire.

I haven't used it in a few years myself, since version 11, but it comes packed with so many different solitaire games you wouldn't even believe it - including the good and classic Klondike which most of us now just call Solitaire.

Re:Solitaire

[thegarbz]

Yeah what a burden to sign up to some account with dummy details to get access to a very large list of features including not only the play store, but also backup and recovery options for encryption keys, password syncing, seemless profile moving between machines, OneDrive which is already highly integrated.

I'm sorry but the complaint sounds like those people who buy an Android phone, don't sign up for a Google account, and then complain when some of the features don't work. It's not onerous. Give them fake details, get them to assign you an email address you'll never use, and just enjoy the features you get.

Re:Solitaire

[iampiti]

Yeah, it's a political removal. The only reason to do this is to force people to go to the Store to download it and get them used to get "apps" of which any sales Microsoft will keep a 30% cut

Re:Solitaire

[tehcyder]

Yeah, it's a political removal. The only reason to do this is to force people to go to the Store to download it and get them used to get "apps" of which any sales Microsoft will keep a 30% cut

So when Microsoft make a decision to open an app store it's "political", but when Apple or Google do it it's just good business?

Re:Solitaire

[iampiti]

No, all are the same thing: a means to get more money.
The difference is that Windows didn't use to have it and now does, and moving solitare to the store isn't done for technical reasons but for forcing you to use the store

Re:Solitaire

[Anonymous Coward]

Metro apps will run in windows on the desktop on Win 10

Re:Solitaire

[bingoUV]

Yeah what a burden to sign up to some account with dummy details to get access to a very large list of features including not only the play store, but also backup and recovery options for encryption keys, password syncing, seemless profile moving between machines, OneDrive which is already highly integrated.

Sure, one stop access to TLAs. What's not to love?

Re:Solitaire

[thegarbz]

How do you even sleep at night with the government putting chemtrails into your air?

Re:Solitaire

[bingoUV]

Ask the government.

What is Microsoft adding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah yeah, I get it - the new Windows has terrible icons, and Microsoft is removing everything good about Windows (crappy media player, lousy media centre, Hearts, etc.)

But what are they adding that's compelling? For that matter, what are the improvements over Windows 7? (since there's no way I'm migrating to Win 8)

Re:What is Microsoft adding?

[0123456]

The only thing I'm aware of is DX12, which they're using to force gamers to downgrade.

Re:What is Microsoft adding?

[Anonymous Coward]

But what are they adding that's compelling? For that matter, what are the improvements over Windows 7?

- UI improvements: virtual desktops, task view, tablet mode, smooth desktop animations
- Package management
- Edge web browser
- FLAC and Matroska support
- Cortana
- Version for Raspberry Pi 2

When comparing to Windows 7, you also get the new stuff introduced in Windows 8, such as performance improvements and ISO mounting.

So it's basically small things here and there. Most of that stuff can be added to Windows 7 with third-party software.

For me it deprecated itself.

[future assassin]

Came to work on Tuesday to find out some bs nag screen asking me to reserve windows 10 for myself. Ok click on the menu and see no don't bother me again option. Right click on the icon, hmm nothing, Its fucking not removable WTF?

So instead of upgrading my only windows box (My pos is windows only) I'm on a hunt for a POS system that runs on Linux. In my shop it 2015 will be the YEAR OF LINUX.

Re:For me it deprecated itself.

[Cro Magnon]

So instead of upgrading my only windows box (My pos is windows only) I'm on a hunt for a POS system that runs on Linux. In my shop it 2015 will be the YEAR OF LINUX.

Good luck with that. It's common knowledge that Windows owns the POS market.

Re:For me it deprecated itself.

[neminem]

Which is highly appropriate, given that Windows is itself a POS.

Re:For me it deprecated itself.

[future assassin]

Well this is the one I've been meaning to test out for a while http://www.linuxcanada.com/ just never got around to it but now its the time.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[GigaplexNZ]

Microsoft needs to pay royalties on the codecs included in WMC for every copy they ship. Very few users actually use it, so Microsoft was spending a ton of cash on codecs they don't need. That's why WMC was removed from Windows 8 by default, requiring an upgrade code (for tracking the codec royalties). Perhaps the demand for the Windows 8 upgrade code was too low to make it worth their effort, so they dropped it completely.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[GigaplexNZ]

Windows 8 had a special WMC SKU too.

Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise. Windows7 Media Center makes using the HDHomerun tuners trivial.

I'm a Linux guy and use Windows for a few things only due to HW and SW mandates.
* Recording TV - HDHR Tuners
* Recoding HDMI HiDef - Hauppauge 1512
* Quicken
* Commercial removal from TV Recordings - VideoRedo
everything else is Linux. Remote desktops, surfing, email, calendaring, office productivity, media playback, transcoding, file sharing, remote access, VPNs, faxing, printing, scanning, gaming, everything - on - Linux.

So - in 2020, when Win7 support ends, I'll revisit my TV recording solution. The other parts probably will still work and will not require any changes. I'll happily keep running win7 without support on a firewalled LAN segment until I die. It is only the TV schedule data that needs networking and updates from MS.

I just don't see the point to change to something clearly inferior for my needs.

In Soviet Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

CCCP Media plays you!

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[__aasehi2499]

Yes, but XP had special WMC keyboards designed to work with that it were design masterpieces.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Tokolosh]

Doesn't work with my SiliconDust HDHR3-US OTA tuners. A deal-breaker for me :-(

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[GigaplexNZ]

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether a given major OS version had a dedicated SKU for WMC.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[dfsmith]

How do I install it so that I can play content from my Windows machine on the Xbox 360? WMC does that quite well.

What do we get?

[WaffleMonster]

What does someone upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 get out of the deal? A different UX and minor performance improvements only noticeable on low memory systems? Is there a list of substantive reasons for users to care other than 7 10?

I go through Microsoft's website and google.. all I see is BS about a new browser, Cortana and Xbox. Is there a list of useful changes somewhere?

Re:What do we get?

[Anonymous Coward]

What does someone upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 get out of the deal? A different UX and minor performance improvements only noticeable on low memory systems? Is there a list of substantive reasons for users to care other than 7 10?

I go through Microsoft's website and google.. all I see is BS about a new browser, Cortana and Xbox. Is there a list of useful changes somewhere?

The only reason I would want to upgrade my windows machine is to have the latest security related improvements(which is important to think about). I have the one machine that runs windows, I could really care less what it looks like so have no problem upgrading...... but I have a bunch of test equipment attached, so I worry something will no longer function.
I still haven't found a changelog, do they usually publish one?

Re:What do we get?

[maorb]

DirectX 11 (useful to gamers)
Windowed Modern Apps (could potentially make them useful in a desktop environment finally)
Better UI than Windows 8.x (Though I suspect most people will remain partial to Win7 out of familiarity)

Honestly those are the two things that I can think of off the top of my head. Everything since Windows 7 has pretty much been nothing but under-the-hood changes and major UI redesigns (for better or worse... mostly worse). I wouldn't be surprised to see more improvements in high DPI display scaling and multi-monitor support, but I wouldn't hold my breath looking for things that are completely new.

Re:What do we get?

[PRMan]

3 more years of support?

Re:What do we get?

[Calydor]

DX11 is already in Windows 7, though.

Re:What do we get?

[Opportunist]

As soon as Win7 doesn't get any anymore, I might consider moving. Chances are, though, that the move will be to another line of OSs.

Re:What do we get?

[david_thornley]

I'd suspect the internals will be better. 98% of the criticism I read about Windows 8 was about the sucky UI Ballmer tried ramming down everybody's throat. Everything else I read about 8 was positive. What I'd like is advanced internals with an XP UI, but I don't think I'm getting that.

Re:What do we get?

[mrjimorg]

You mean DirectX 12. Should be a major update/change from 11, and only available on Windows10.

Re:What do we get?

[MrL0G1C]

So, nothing then, already got dx11

Don't want "Windowed Modern Apps", because firefox, vlc, open-office etc work fine already.

Better UI? I'm using classic shell to get a better UI. Windows 10 - better UI don't make me laugh.

Re:What do we get?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can there be a honest list of useful changes? There aren't any! As is usual with M$. Very seldom is changing to a new version of Windows an upgrade. Usually its a downgrade, as in slower performance on the same hardware, more and worse bugs, more and worse backdoors, and useful features removed in favor of stuff that no one finds useful...The tablet interface formerly known as Metro comes to mind, but is not by far the only example.

Re:What do we get?

[zlogic]

OK, I'll bite :)
- A much better task manager. Very easy to spot resource hogs and kill them. Also, it shows tons of useful information such as HDD performance/usage, proper network usage (not %, but a scalable bandwidth chart)
- File History - Microsoft's answer to Apple's time Machine. Oh, and if you reinstall Windows, this is used to restore your files automaticlly.
- Metro apps - they will no longer be fullscreen and some are quite nice and easy to use. Most apps (like News, Weather, Mail, Bing Translate, Here Maps etc) work offline. And unlike Windows apps, the installation procedure is much easier and doesn't include crap like toolbars, viruses or changing system settings without asking.
- Tons of features, such as iso mounting, better printer drivers, ability to easily forget previously connected devices, settings sync, native support for fingerprints, conservative use of metered connections, a great theme collection and so on

MS did spend too much resources on Metro. There's tons of stuff which is never used on a desktop and which failed to be embraced by developers. Charms are useless, Metro apps on a 24" screen are wasteful (running a 4-function calculator fullscreen? really?), settings are split between Control Panel and the brand-new Metro settings screen. I've owned a Surface RT and many things did make sense, it was actually pretty usable, especially starting from Windows 8.1.

Re:What do we get?

[toddestan]

The thing is that the free upgrade offer is only good for a year. Though some of the details are a bit murky if I take them up on it and change my mind. What if I wanted to go back to 7/8? What if I find some reason that I simply cannot run Windows 10, either because of hardware or some software package that won't run?

Re:What do we get?

[Wolfrider]

> What if I wanted to go back to 7/8?

--Running a full image backup with the free bootable system rescue cd and ntfsclone to an external USB drive is probably a very good bet... HOWTOs are available if you do a search. See distrowatch.com to download system rescue cd. Oh, you should also do an ' fdisk -l ' from the cd and DD backup the boot partition as well. ;-)

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[dslbrian]

Well they may have the pipe dream that people would use Xbox as an HTPC, but I think it a far better option to run the reverse configuration (a true HTPC as a game machine via Steam).

I've been trying to determine alternate configurations to a PC with WMC, so as a basis:

PC running Win7/WMC: - can utilize OTA and cable tuners, PVR capability, free scheduling, expandable storage without limit - can access stored media of any type using any appropriate player (WMC, VLC, etc) - can access full web, any foreign sites, any streaming source (does not suffer "mobile web" that Android or such see, or how Hulu restricts Roku and similar) - can utilize VPN without additional hardware - can double as game machine via Steam, MAME, etc.

Now some alternatives (relative to above):

PC running Linux/Kodi - needs paid scheduling service, Steam somewhat limited

Android box (eg. FireTV) + network server (Plex) - no tuners, not sure on VPN, possibly restricted services (Hulu), simple gaming

Roku + Tablo + network server (Plex) - has tuners (need paid subscription), but no web browser, not sure on VPN, possibly restricted services (Hulu), simple gaming

Xbox or PS4 + network server (Plex?) - not sure on these (web, VPN), but almost certainly limited and annoying options, good gaming

Others?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Unless MS is really interested in turning the screws(in which case update handling will presumably interact with OS validation in some way intended to make it tricky to crack); the inability to defer updates will probably be a few registry keys that work equally well on any SKU; but don't have a UI anymore, and are intended to be manipulated with Group Policy in a domain environment.

Doesn't mean that it isn't a heavy handed move predicated on the assumption that consumers are idiot sheep who can't be trusted; but barring special effort it will probably require 10 minutes in regedit to do yourself.

Icon Madness

[westlake]

Windows 1.0 was released in October of 1985. Twelve years before the launch of Slashdot. In 2015, the geek may fret and fume, but Windows remains a force to be reckoned with.

If the geek wants to "talk tech" on Slashdot, that is a fine with me. But the stained glass icon isn't an invitation to talk sensibly about Windows --- it is an invitation to rant and rave, and that wastes time.

Re:Icon Madness

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're that easily swayed by an icon, just go.

Re:Icon Madness

[Anonymous Coward]

So sod off elsewhere then. Ignore all MS or Windows "articles". You probably take offense with TV shows because you're took lazy to turn the fucking thing off too.

Re:Icon Madness

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely. While I'm a huge m$oft hater, some of their policies and practices have screwed me over more than once. That said, I will acknowledge that with all the shitty stuff, microsoft can also do well.

Excel and word: Bitch all you want, that stuff is gold standard.

Xbox: Never tried one, but the kids love 'em

Some of the keyboards and mice they have made are among the best and most reliable I have ever owned (I'm of the 8088 generation)

There's lots of it.

By the same token, I got my first mac in 1984, but unless they pull their heads out of their asses I think I may have bought my last new one a year or so ago.

Re:Icon Madness

[dwpro]

You make a good point, but I think Microsoft and its supporters have learned the hard way to not take themselves so seriously, for the betterment of all. There's a few other companies I know that could benefit from being taken down a peg or two. I say this as a programmer who codes primarily in .net technologies and a mostly satisfied windows user.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[recoiledsnake]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/e...

Also, thanks for ruining Slashdot by turning it to anti-MS circlejerk over the years. RIP Slashdot ghost town.

Media Center...

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a TV Tuner card... what will I do with it now... Use the terrible software that Hauppauge wanted me to use? (WinTV I think?) I threw that in the garbage within minutes.

Re:Media Center...

[Anonymous Coward]

TV Tuner card? Hauppauge? Did you type this post in 1998 and only just hit submit?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The actual playback application gets included because many users want out-of-box features, that one among them. The other incentive(and the one that makes the visible application comparatively trivial to include) is that OSes have a stronger incentive to include some sort of media framework that makes it relatively easy for people building applications for their platform to include media handling and allows those applications to benefit from additional capabilities provided by other media handling programs on the system without additional work to explicitly support them.

For Windows, that's Directshow and 'Media Foundation'. WMP is a relatively small(honestly fairly lousy) shell around the actual media framework. OSX does much the same thing with Quicktime, and the FOSS world has gstreamer and Phonon. These systems can get pretty hairy(XP with a couple of dodgy codec packs installed, in particular, frequently ended up in such bad shape that either installing VLC or nuking the system was the best way to get playback again); but when they work as intended, you get the very neat effect that anything that needs media handling can more or less automatically and more or less cleanly share the capabilities of other media handling software that might be on the system, without needing to do more than be able to accept some flavor of output for display.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[jason-999-]

So many people say this and seem to be utterly oblivious to the fact: the only reason most of us stick with WMC is cable companies DRM their product and the only non-convoluted way to record them is through WMC. You can use Kodi on a system with WMC and use serverwmc for the recording/schedules, but you're still relying on WMC.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[thunderclap]

And is a usability nightmare. The people doing the UI for kodi have no idea how to make a simple, intuitive interface.

So Mozilla foundation is currently making the UI for Kodi? Well now, isn't that special?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[thunderclap]

They don't want you to 'have two media PCs running Win7 essentially only for WMC'. They want you to use windows for everything. You should have joined linux a long time ago if thats all you use it for.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

The UI in Kodi can be customized to look pretty much any way that you want. The default interface is very nice, just the main menu is a bit cluttered but it's easily cleaned up in the settings.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[thunderclap]

So you are saying that there is NO ONE who has made a program to do what you need in Linux at all? Or are you simply unwilling or unable to get it? I;m curious. because it looks like MS bowing to the will of Hollywood again. Oh I believe MC will sunset July 29th 2016; the day you have to pay for windows 10.

It's just weird. WHY?

[dpbsmith]

Why shouldn't a DVD play when you pop it in? Surely that can't be all that problematical to support. Ditto Solitaire, which if memory serves has been there since Windows 3.0 (or possible 3.1?) What grand self-serving strategic move is this supposed to be?

Re:It's just weird. WHY?

[damnbunni]

Money saving. DVD playback software has to be licensed, and that's an extra cost.

Since not many people used the built in software for it, MS stopped including it in 8. Most PCs that ship with DVD players come with PowerDVD or some other third party DVD player tool anyway.

Solitaire is now part of a free download from the Windows store, and has been since Windows 8. Putting it there gets people to create a Windows account and check out the store.

I'll be updating to 10 just to get DirectX 12. Games aren't using it yet, but they will be.

Re:It's just weird. WHY?

[iampiti]

Yeah, DirectX 12 is the only reason I see to upgrade. And it irks me to no end the fact that I'll have to use a OS worse than Win7 (IMO) to get it

Re:It's just weird. WHY?

[gnupun]

Why shouldn't a DVD play when you pop it in?

Looks like they are doing it to handle security issues. For example, when you insert a DVD on Win7, it autoruns software loaded from the DVD. That software could steal data from the PC or install a virus.

Re:It's just weird. WHY?

[Anonymous Coward]

Same for the DirectX 12 issue. I'll "upgrade" in 11months. With any luck a lot of things will have been patched and fixed by then.

Re:It's just weird. WHY?

[aaaaaaargh!]

Not on my machine. You have the wrong settings.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[basscomm]

It's not just a pipe dream, the Xbox One already works with most cable boxes and just recently got support for an OTA tuner. DVR capability is said to be coming this year. Plex works reasonably well with the Xbone and the PS4 (I haven't tried either one, but some friends have), but it wants a subscription (natch). The consoles also have video apps, web browsers, and the whole ball of wax. Microsoft is really pushing hard to make the Xbone the center of your entertainment 'experience'.

Forced Updates?

[kitezh]

What about people who can't/don't want to update at the time Microsoft tells them? I can understand why they want to ensure updates get applied, but there are situations when I would want to hold off until a better time. For example, I could be running my laptop through through my cell phone on vacation, or live in an area with only dial-up or expensive wireless internet (I could take the laptop to a library or café and download the updates through their faster internet). I've been in the situation where I had to help someone set up their computer for a presentation and their computer had to be restarted. Of course the Windows updates kicked in during the shutdown, making them late because we had to wait for the updates to be applied before the computer would finally reboot.

Re:Forced Updates?

[gnupun]

This is what I warned about before: major OS upgrades that turn your PC/mobile device into a slow, fat pig. For example, Google Android forces you to upgrade your OS (say from KitKat to Lollipop with nag screens every 5-10 minutes if you refuse to upgrade). New OSes are designed for new, faster hardware. If you install a new OS update on an older machine, it becomes very slow and unusable.

This is the same (forced obsolescence) strategy used by OSX, iOS, Android and now Win10. You don't have much choice against this strategy:
a) You install a major OS update: your machine becomes very slow and unusable although you can still install the latest apps.
b) You refuse to install the OS update: On OS X/iOS you can't install new apps because they are compiled for the latest OS update. On Android you get a nag screen every few minutes to "upgrade" your OS.
c) You give up and sell/throw away your perfectly working machine to purchase a new one so you can run the latest OS and therefore the latest apps.

As you can see, we need to protest against deprecating deferred updates. Non-deferred updates = forced obsolescence. We need to separate bug fix upgrades from major OS (feature) upgrades.

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the pro version then. Sure it costs more but it's free until July 2016 anyway (of course if you've got Win 7/8 home edition currently then you'll have to pay since only the 10 Home upgrade would be free).

If you're someone like me who doesn't like installing updates automatically you should already know this and plan ahead.

Regular home users however can stick with Home and get forced updates. This is how it should be since most average users who don't update get tons of malware and become bonnets. Frankly fuck them and this is a good thing that will hopefully slow down malware and it's obvious why MS made this decision.

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK why don't you make your own OS then?

Re:Forced Updates?

[Opportunist]

I'm pretty sure before I have to move to WinX, someone will come up with some tool that lets me postpone updates.

Bugs like this are easily fixed. Even if the vendor refuses to.

Re:Forced Updates?

[westlake]

What about people who can't/don't want to update at the time Microsoft tells them?

Important updates for Win 10 home users will be automatically downloaded in the background. But not over a metered connection.

The Win 10 upgrade tray app that frays the geek mind does a compatibility check. You won't even see the thing unless your system is ready for the upgrade. As for the installer, it just sits there until you are ready to launch it.

Re:Forced Updates?

[allo]

The good old time, where you had the disks of every OS version still around. Now you do not even have disks, only recovery partitions. Which include the preinstalled crapware, of course.

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, not all android phones are alike. That nag must be from your manufacturer, my nexus 5 bothered me once and then never again. Seen same on a half dozen ither models.

Re:Forced Updates?

[Cederic]

So I just need to tell Windows that I'm on a metered connection? How?

Upgrading to Pro just to retain control over when my fucking bandwidth is used is asinine.

(The fact that Steam merrily downloads 10Gb of updates and I don't even notice is perhaps a fair challenge to my desire for control over bandwidth use - but I do also disable Steam updates when I'm doing latency critical or bandwidth flooding activities)

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

None of my Android devices have nagged me to install Lollipop. In fact, I wish I could install Lollipop on one of them, but since it was 99$ last year, well, it wouldn't be upgradable, would it? It has a Qualcomm SOC, which is hard to get drivers for.

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, alternatively:
a) You run Linux and everything works fine for so long that the hardware physically disintegrates before you need to replace it. (You diligently ignore smartphones and tablets and mutter something under your breath about locked bootloaders.)

Re:Forced Updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

I did. And no, you can't have a copy.

mom & dad types

[p51d007]

Are the only ones that use the built in software. I haven't used windows media player since VLC came around.

No deferring updates?

[gweihir]

Will be funny to watch when MS breaks all installations of Win10 Home for the first time. And then likely does it again. I will stay on Win7 at the very least until a month or so before the end of the free upgrade. I might also keep a backup of my Win7 installation around, just in case.

Re:No deferring updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me try to put myself in the mind of the person who came up with this idea:
- Ok, our updates have been known to break the system, check.
- Users sometimes need their machines to do actual work, possibly on a deadline, check.
- Therefore, let's make our updates mandatory and impossible to defer!

Does Microsoft have a policy of hiring retarded people? Just wondering...

Re:No deferring updates?

[Opportunist]

I think the train of thought is a different one. I'd envision something like this:

Ok, our updates break systems from time to time, we could spend more time and money testing it... or we could abuse the home edition users (ya know, the idiots who have no option 'cause their games don't run on any other system) to do it for us. That way we can keep our enterprise users happy without spending a dime more.

Re:No deferring updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely is the fact that they can see that a lot of infections that can be prevented are caused by home-users not installing updates. Because they read horror stories about bad updates.

This will take away that choice for people who aren't educated enough to make that decision. It's great. If you want to keep the ability to choose in that, just buy the Pro version.

Re:No deferring updates?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't always test my code, but when I do I do it in production.

Stay thirsty my friends!

Re:No deferring updates?

[gweihir]

You know, that is the first plausible explanation for this that I read. Unfortunately, it is very plausible. People will start to complain on social media very fast and that can be automatically monitored on any updates.

As a plus, the NSA will be happy they can use the same mechanism with MSes cooperation.

Re:No deferring updates?

[Opportunist]

Joe Randomuser will prefer to install a free update blocker. Which will work really nicely... well, if you don't mind that it blocks the updates for the reason you mention, i.e. that the update would notice that it's a trojan.

And this is what will happen. Simple as that. It's terribly hard to force people to do something they really, really don't want to do.

Re:Remove Solitaire? Nooooooo!

[rossdee]

I play the Solitaire from XP
A lot

So I won't be 'upgrading' to Win 10

Loud then quit

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of your problem may be that you are not using a good surround setup. Most dialog goes to the center channel, if using lousy gear ( or no gear), center channel audio comes out muddled and muted.

Note, too, movies have always had loud and quiet scenes. It's why cinema viewing is superior to all but the best home rigs (not counting the audience): their audio kit is powerful enough and well-tuned to hear the quietest parts fine without cringing painfully during the loud parts.

Re:Loud then quit

[Zaelath]

^ that's complete bullshit.

Surround is tuned for theatres, and you don't care that it's loud when the music/explosions are going off and quiet for dialogue because you don't have a child sleeping in the next room in the theatre. It's not that the music/explosions are painfully loud at home, it's that they're still too damn loud for night viewing with children/neighbours/etc.

Re:Loud then quit

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. They're not sleeping in the next room. They're wide awake and screaming in the theater.

Re:Loud then quit

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

You may be right, but i would rather have proper surround sound and turn down the volume occasionally than to use such a crash prone player as VLC. MPC is rock solid, vlc, not so much... If it bothers you that much, go download a YIFY release. He loves fucking with proper surround sound for people who have crappy speakers.

Besides, don't most people just use XBMC/kodi or plex or other media centres these days? Easier to use with a remote thats for sure.

Re:Loud then quit

[bhiestand]

Surround is tuned for theatres, and you don't care that it's loud when the music/explosions are going off and quiet for dialogue because. . .

Actually, I do. I find theaters painfully loud and prefer to wear good earplugs when possible.

Re:Loud then quit

[BillTheKatt]

Turn it up! Tuuuurn it uppppp! - Grandpa Simpson

Re:Loud then quit

[AmiMoJo]

Considering that DVDs and BluRay both support multiple audio tracks it's ridiculous that they don't include a compressed track for people to use at home. I suppose they would argue that they want the sound to have maximum impact and be exactly as the director/sound designer wanted it to be, but most people don't have a THX certified system and like it or not watching on laptops with headphones or on TV at night is common now.

Re:Loud then quit

[Stuarticus]

Crappy speakers? Those are more usually found in surround setups, give me a high quality stereo pair over some crappy set of surround speakers any day. I also find your optimal seating position is usually reduced to one seat in the room when you have a surround setup.

Re:Loud then quit

[gbjbaanb]

Last time I was at the movie theatre, the sound was turned up so loud the speakers were distorting. I stopped bothering with theatres around then.

Re:Loud then quit

[Maxo-Texas]

This is odd since I've never had VLC crash once.

I'm surprised.

Re:Loud then quit

[Zalbik]

their audio kit is powerful enough and well-tuned to hear the quietest parts fine without cringing painfully during the loud parts.

What theatres are you going to?!? Every theatre I go to seems to have decided to make the "quietest parts fine" by having the loud parts loud enough for your ears to bleed.

The worst part is they are sometimes loud enough you can hear distortion from the speakers (right before you ear canal fills with blood).

Theatres suck.

Re:Loud then quit

[Shirley Marquez]

Depends on the complexity of your speaker setup. The reason that theater sound systems use so many channels (the latest one, Dolby Atmos, uses 64, though it can assign them to the actual speakers in various blends because few real world setup have that many speakers) is not to give you higher quality surround placement; it's to expand the listening sweet spot. With more speakers you can get the sounds coming from the right direction for a larger number of listeners.

Innacurate summary

[GoddersUK]

TFS:

Some of the deprecated features include: ... out-of-the-box ... USB floppy support, ... old versions of Windows games, and Windows Live Essentials version of OneDrive

USB floppy support is still available, you just have to pull the drivers off Windows update, the old versions of Windows games have been replaced by the new versions (shock, horror) and WL Essentials OneDrive has been superseded by integrated OneDrive. So really we're only left with Media Center, DVD playback and gadgets being removed, and a stupid change being made to the way "Home" editions of the OS handle updates.

Re:Innacurate summary

[PRMan]

And DVD playback is included if you had Media Center before.

Re:Innacurate summary

[allo]

and the option to opt out of certain updates.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[thegarbz]

If you're hanging onto windows because of media centre then you really should be spreading your wings and looking at what else is available out there. IMO Windows Media Centre was by far the worst media centre software I've used to date.

I highly recommend checking out KODI.

Backups

[Brianwa]

If 10 is anything like 8.1, the upgrade will silently stop your backups and remove your ability to access any backups made in the Windows 7 backup utility. I discovered that one the fun way.

Re:Backups

[Moof123]

Never got the Windows 7 backup to run, kept giving non-useful error messages, and I moved on pretty quick. Broken by design...

Re:Backups

[Anonymous Coward]

From what I've read it might be back in Windows 10

Re:Backups

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds bad. So not even the shadow copies we're available anymore for non windows system files?

Re:Backups

[FireFury03]

If 10 is anything like 8.1, the upgrade will silently stop your backups and remove your ability to access any backups made in the Windows 7 backup utility. I discovered that one the fun way.

Sounds like Apple's Timemachine, which we've stopped using here because every so often it decides there is an error in the (remote) backup image, and rather than offering to repair it it just blows the damned thing away and starts running a backup from scratch (last time it did that was when the hard drive was in the process of dieing and having the backups auto-deleted was the last thing we wanted!)

I use rsnapshot for my always-on machines, but that's not so useful for other machines.

Re:Backups

[PRMan]

I use FBackup for this very reason. Very simple. Always works. Uses standard .zip format or just a file copy. Files are always available.

Re:Backups

[Anonymous Coward]

If 10 is anything like 8.1, the upgrade will silently stop your backups and remove your ability to access any backups made in the Windows 7 backup utility. I discovered that one the fun way.

and of all the shit in this thread, the parent probably has the most meaningful piece of information for us all

Re:Backups

[Brianwa]

That looks pretty nice. I've been using a simple robocopy script lately but it's not really ideal.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[dwywit]

Hint: it's a GENERAL PURPOSE operating system. It has to be broadly appealing, and that means a range of applications - calculator, CD/DVD playback, basic word processor (Wordpad), and so on.

Have a look at the top 3 linux distributions on Distrowatch - they've all got lots of application software included, and they've all got their own instabilities.

Or better yet

[shiftless]

Or just throw a molotov cocktail through Microsoft's front window, then install anything else.

Seriously, them removing Solitaire is almost as fucking stupid as Linux Mint not installing traceroute by default.

Why is the world filled full of dumb fucking assholes who, for some idiotic reason, believe the Internet is always going to be right there for you to download shit?

Just like the dumb fucks who can't be asked to include help text with their software, instead deciding it would be better to redirect me to their pile of SHIT web page.

Sometimes I wonder if humanity really deserves to survive.

Floppy support

[CauseBy]

What's the argument against having support for floppy discs? What can that possibly be, like a 55K library or something? It's the kind of thing I'd expect to be included for 50 years.

Re:Floppy support

[Anonymous Coward]

It only means that the driver is not included in the installation media. When you connect an USB floppy drive, it provides a driver from Windows Update.

Re:Floppy support

[Opportunist]

Certainly going to be fun for the people who have their NIC drivers (ya know, that thing they use to connect to the internet) on a floppy...

Re:Floppy support

[FireFury03]

Last time I installed a windows system off a CD, after installation it couldn't see the CD or network until I'd found appropriate drivers and installed them from floppy. Of course, this is going back a few years - I've not installed Windows since Win98 :)

Re:Floppy support

[tehcyder]

Last time I installed a windows system off a CD, after installation it couldn't see the CD or network until I'd found appropriate drivers and installed them from floppy. Of course, this is going back a few years - I've not installed Windows since Win98 :)

Indeed, and last time I installed MSDOS 3.3 on a system, it wouldn't even connect to my broadband so I could download Office 365!

Fucking M$...

Re:Floppy support

[ledow]

There is no need.

Require an external driver (network, RAID controller, etc.)? Stick a USB key in (USB keys have been supported in Windows setup for a long time now). Hell, most of the drivers are larger than 1.44Mb, especially for anything vaguely complex.

However, as someone who's pushed out two ENTIRE SCHOOLS worth of PC's from a single Windows 8 PXE-booting image, on PC's from 6-years-old to brand-new, I have been required to install precisely one driver, and that was non-boot-critical (a touchscreen). I literally have one image, with the base setup program straight off a Windows 8 CD, and it boots everything I plug it into - whether from PXE, CD or USB, to the point where I can install it.

Servers may be a slightly different matter but you're on your own then anyway, and most server manufacturer's have driver CD's and / or boot CD's that slipstream the driver into a Windows install for you (e.g. IBM Bladecenter Boot Manager disks etc.).

The bigger question is really why you think you still need floppy? They were dead before ISA cards were, and I don't see people crowing about native support for ISA cards beyond the NE2000 any more. There's a reason - they're dead.

If you want a USB floppy disk driver, stick it on a USB stick (ironically, it will work!). Or slipstream it into your install. Or even put it on a CD.

But the last time I *needed* a floppy to install windows was for Server 2003 with an ancient RAID card, and even then I could have done it in much easier ways but just happened to have a floppy with the drivers and a USB floppy that the BIOS recognised.

Re:Floppy support

[PRMan]

Because only .001% of people have them. Why include things for everyone when nobody actually uses it? On a small tablet, every byte counts.

Re:Floppy support

[FireFury03]

Last time I installed a windows system off a CD, after installation it couldn't see the CD or network until I'd found appropriate drivers and installed them from floppy. Of course, this is going back a few years - I've not installed Windows since Win98 :)

Indeed, and last time I installed MSDOS 3.3 on a system, it wouldn't even connect to my broadband so I could download Office 365!

Fucking M$...

The difference, of course, is that Win98 was distributed on a CD, so not installing the CD drivers by default is a bit dumb...

Re:Floppy support

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I'm sure that's *millions* of people. Fuck's sake.

Re:Floppy support

[CauseBy]

I definitely don't need floppy support. I owned the original iMac back in 1998 and by then I'd already used my last floppy disk. In fact I don't even use Windows at all, not at work or at home, so I have no vested interest whatsoever in this issue, it just strikes me as an odd thing to excise from an OS. Floppies, SCSI, serial, printer port, VGA -- all these things work if your OS has a teeny tiny library, smaller than the JPEG displayed on the desktop. When doing the cost/benefit analysis, the cost is practically zero, and the benefit is small but larger than the cost, so it seems like you'd just keep supporting all that hardware.

Re:Floppy support

[CauseBy]

"On a small tablet, every byte counts."

I guess this is what I question. To me it seems like it doesn't count. You could support the entire panoply of 1980s and 1990s technology with a library the size of the MP3 containing the "ding" sound when you start up. It seems to me like that half-meg of compiled code is inconsequential to a multi-gig OS.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Ah ok. Living in Australia I have no support from cable companies for any kind of media centre so it had never occurred to me.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

I tried this for a period. Having an xbox 360 back to a parent windows machine. In the end I found it a really clunky solution, needing my windows machine to be on and then having the 360 struggle whenever a folder with 20 videos in it was opened.

In the end I went for a $200 atom machine and installed xbmcbuntu on it and turned it into a dedicated front end.

Now I run 3 front ends which share content and watched status between them. Also has high wife approval factor because it is the same everywhere.

Of course to do this you need to either spend money or coble together an old machine which you may not want to do.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Don't know those tuners. Quick google makes it look like it is some kind of drmed encrypted channel or something? Don't have an equivalent in Aus...

Looks like the only way to use them is with a nasty windows hack.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Having read a few of the other posts I believe the answer is no at this stage but with support coming in the future.

Cable card tuners are not an option here in Aus as Foxtel is the only provider and they won't do it. For a while I had IR blasters controlling foxtel. But I ditched it years and years ago. I only use a tuner now to watch live sport.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[MechaStreisand]

Shouldn't you be thanking Microsoft for that?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Tokolosh]

They can tune unencrypted cable channels, which have been pretty much phased out in the US. Everything is now digital and encrypted, and requires a smartcard, also called a cablecard from the cable company.

However, they can also tune over-the-air transmissions received by antenna from local stations. These are free and unencrypted. They are also uncompressed HD, so the picture quality is great, generally better than the cable company's, who compress to save bandwidth.

Anyway, I use my HDHR3 for the latter broadcast option, and the WMC is my PVR. It seems that making this model work with Kodi should be pretty easy, easier than the later cablecard versions.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

I believe that currently the answer is no but a kickstarter campaign has been started by one of the companies to support it.

As for program guide the OTA and cable companies in Australia refuse to give an easily accessible epg so it was always a hack for the data. As for the interface I never had a problem with kodi.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Ah ok. Well in that case what I read was that the unencrypted signals already work with Kodi with Silicon dust having started a kickstarter to expand the encrypted support to kodi.

That said that was from 2 seconds of looking at those cards so I may have got that completely wrong.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Alternative setup to your linux / kodi setup. There are a number of epg scrapers which give you your scheduling so you don't need to pay and for steam have a windows box with decent hardware stashed somewhere else and use steam streaming to play games on your front end.

That said it depends on how often you game in your lounge. As I never do that using a low power atom based front end for kodibuntu is a much better solution. Also you can have one that fits in a vesa compliant mount so it can be bolted to the back of your TV and passively cooled. That way it is just on all the time.

Will they have time control for windows 10 home?

[Joe_Dragon]

Will they have time control for windows 10 home? for the updates?? Some people have slow internet / low caps with late night cap free times.

Read better

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 7 does not come with DVD playback. It never did. What they are removing is the alternate "Windows Media Center" interface, eg the TV Tuner software. Since there are no analog TV broadcasts, and only the US has cablecard, the rest of the world has not been able to use the WMC at all. Remember those "Microsoft video extenders" and the Xbox 360's extender? That is what it was used for.

Just about everyone I know uses MPC-HC or VLC to play DVD's, nothing else. These players will not play Blueray discs. If you want to play BD/DVD discs you need to install a third party DVD/BD software.

Personally I just use MakeMKV, rip the disc to the hard drive and play it from there. Saves having to wear out the optical drive.

No WMC means no upgrade for me

[AaronW]

My only PC that always boots Windows 7 is my home theater PC since I use the Windows Media Center to record broadcasts and use it as a DVR. As far as I know, Linux is not a solution because some of the channels I record are set not to copy and MythTV will not support that. I also have a Ceton Echo which lets me view the content in my bedroom. This also only works with Windows 7. None of the other packages I see out there can handle the protected content.

Re:No WMC means no upgrade for me

[thegarbz]

You can blame the arse backwards companies providing the encryption standard for this. The only reason it's not being carried through / not available for other (in all other ways far more capable) media centre applications is licensing fees.

Re:No WMC means no upgrade for me

[Anonymous Coward]

xbmc

Re:No WMC means no upgrade for me

[Anonymous Coward]

windows media center is (soon to be 'was') the only dvr application for personal computers blessed by cable labs to record 'protected' content captured by cable card-equipped tuners (open source products never will be). without that, we're all fucked and have to pay to use tivo or provider-supplied boxes. wonder how much comcast and the like slid under-the-table to microsoft to get them to deprecate a competing product?

Re: No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[dfsmith]

I have the problem that I would have to train three unwilling people to use another system---it took long enough to teach them the 360! (And the Xbox will use wake on LAN to bring up WMC when it's off.)

Learn what deprecate means

[Anonymous Coward]

Deprecated means that something will still work, you're just on notice that it won't be supported in a future version. So if some things are deprecated in Windows 10, that should mean that they will still be there, but they might not be there in Windows 11.

Re:Learn what deprecate means

[Opportunist]

That's what it SHOULD mean, yes. But from the way it reads, I think the word they were looking for is not deprecate, it's "remove".

Re:Learn what deprecate means

[maxwells_deamon]

Most of the things people have been mentioning here are just gone.

Yes, typically MS has first stopped support and announced deprecation. then eventually they removed it.

In some of these cases the writing was on the wall but MS did not make a big deal of it coming. But mostly the stuff people are complaining about here are gone and you need to go elsewhere to get it.

CableCARD without WMC

[tepples]

Other than WMC, what supports CableCARD tuners? I thought Kodi and all other media players distributed as free software were ineligible under the "compliance and robustness" requirement of the CableCARD system.

Re:CableCARD without WMC

[thegarbz]

Yeah you're right. I didn't know about this American peculiarity.

Deprecate?

[Orgasmatron]

Sounds a lot more like "remove" to me. Deprecate is when you warn that something is going away in some future release, including possibly the next release. Remove is when you take it out of the current release.

Re:Deprecate?

[thegarbz]

It has been replaced. There are alternatives to pretty much every single item listed in TFS which are available in the Windows store for free.

Re:Deprecate?

[Opportunist]

Ah, so it has been replaced by a (de)tour through the Windows Store?

In other words, now you exit the OS installation through the gift shop, I see...

Re:Deprecate?

[thegarbz]

Your cynical attitude falls on deaf ears when you're:
a) not nickel and diming people but rather offering them the same free stuff they always got, and
b) actually just returning to the same way you did it pre-windows XP where if you wanted additional features like games, mail, etc you had to specifically install it via the add/remove windows components dialogue.

I for one am much happier they are pulling shit out of the OS and making it optional to download. The Linux loving slashdot crowd should be seeing this as a positive, but I guess because it comes from the Windows App store rather than some apt or rpm repository it is evil.

Re:Deprecate?

[Opportunist]

timeo danaos et dona ferentes

Re:Deprecate?

[Anonymous Coward]

They haven't removed it from the current release. They will remove them in the next release. The current release of Winblows is 8.1. The next release of Winblows will be 10. Do you need the number for a good dentist? I expect you knocked your front teeth out with that knee jerk.

GWX is fucking shady as shit M$!!!!

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

That GWX is so shady, I will now never upgrade to windows 10, whereas i had no opinion on it before. Can you imagine that they thought they could get away with abusing the trust of windows update like this? Well it just got windows update turned off on all my machines.microsoft. theres no way in hell im trusting that anymore. Fucking advertising bullshit. we aren't god damn mac users who are used to having things thrust down our throats like this. I wait at least a year before upgrading to ANY os... when SP2 is released is a good rule of thumb with MS.

If they are such dicks to use windows update this way, can you imagine what kind of shit they would pull with 10? not to mention how much of a bait and switch offering a free update like this is. The wording is so fucking scammy i felt like i had been violated. They snuck in the back door!!!
Fuck you and your unremovable tray icons!!! deny security on GWX folder, suck it SYSTEM, suck it trustedinstaller!!!! they even hid a bunch of scheduled tasks just like a god damn spyware would do!!!

Re:GWX is fucking shady as shit M$!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, you're a stupid motherfucker for disabling updates entirely. Second, it's not ad advertisement. It's a notification of a FREE update to Windows 10. Apple does nothing for free. They charge you up the ass for updates, so if getting fucked by Tim Cook is more your style, have at it. Third, removing this is brain-dead simple, but for people like you who'd rather cry about it, some difficulty is expected. Fourth, go fuck yourself, stupid bitch!

Re:GWX is fucking shady as shit M$!!!!

[AmiMoJo]

This is hardly a surprise. They did the same thing with the Genuine Advantage notifications, and with the "Vista upgrade ready" checker for XP, and probably more I forgot about. Other companies do it too, like the time when Apple made Safari a critical update to iTunes.

Update mechanisms are always open to abuse.

Re:GWX is fucking shady as shit M$!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ! You could be the shittiest troll I've seen on here. That's APK level asshattery right there. Go take your Assburger's meds and have a nice gelato.

Re: No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Harlequin80]

Kodi is so easy to use my 5 years old is a master pro at it and my 2 year old is getting pretty damn good. I use the MCE remotes, no KB no mouse required.

I have also built XBMC machines for both my parents and my in-laws and the thing I love about it is it literally takes 2 minutes to give an overview and they are away. From that point on it is bullet proof.

As for wake on lan I have my kodi front ends wake on lan a freenas box which has all the videos stored and the freenas box will shutdown 5 minutes after the last front end goes offline. If like me you have multiple TVs Kodi will allow you share the watched status of every video between the front ends. This means not only do you know where you are up to in every season on every machine, but if you are watching something in the lounge and you decide you want to finish watching it in bed you can stop it on lounge front end, walk into the bed room, push play and it will ask if you want to continue from where you are up to.

What!?

[NMBob]

old versions of Windows games... You mean Chip's Challenge won't work? That's a deal breaker.

You will also get the pretty good W7 GUI removed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I see this as the biggest problem... But then I think we should still be designing GUIs acording to CUA and ergonomic guidelines, not fashion designers wet dreams.

Windows Easy Transfer

[darkz0r]

Is this making a comeback ? In win8, it will take a Win7->Win8 image but will not do inter windows 8. They want you to use OneDrive for that purpose...

Fixed Search yet ?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they fixed the useless Search in Explorer, finaaaalllllly ?!

Re:Fixed Search yet ?!

[Opportunist]

Sure they have fixed it. They fixed it in Windows 7 alrea... oh, you don't mean in the veterinary sense?

Most of these are understandable

[DrXym]

I doubt many people used the things they're deprecating and in some cases it is easy to get the same functionality back. DVD playback - use VLC, and many PCs come preinstalled with a Cyber / Power DVD. Media centre - XBMC. Desktop widgets - metro tiles replace those. Games & essentials - appstore.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Mr D from 63]

Not sure what you mean by 'making the software available for the existing customer base'. They are clear that they will support the most recent hardware. It will certainly be hardware limited on the client side, where you'll need an secure platform, which basically means Windows PC, certain Android capable hardwares, and Apple stuff. They have already said Linux clients are SOL for the foreseeable future. Of course, still not problem for non-flagged content. I don't care if its is open source, just want enough options at reasonable cost.

I have similar concerns about the ability to get through Cablelabs, but I think there is a small amount of hope. Patent claims can be avoided by simply licensing pieces as needed, and with the advent Android based DRM schemes, there are more options. And just maybe, the idea of stemming the cord-cutting tide even a little bit might reduce the resistance from the powers that be.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft did try to bring the PC from the home office to the living room, or better they wanted people to buy a PC for the home office and one for the living room. That's why they put a lot of effort and resources in WMC. WMC is a failure in the cost/benefit department. The available WMC PC's didn't sell well. Nobody wanted these loud vertical PC's somewhere in their living room (except few of the more technical people). WMC was now given as an add on for normal PC's for the people who still used a PC near their TV, but did they even make a profit on it?. And when you look at the bigger picture, XBox is the Windows PC in the living room. WMC is just competing with XBox which is a walled garden system and has so many more ways to generate money, including an appstore and unskippable ads.

Microsoft probably sees WMC users as people who don't use an XBox and thus a customer that costs them money, or when they have an XBox next to the WMC, they already achieved the goal of putting a Windows PC in the living room. Windows will be offered 'for free' in the future, although they will continue asking money as long as they can (the Windows tax on all the PC's and Volume Licensing), but the main reason for the existence of Windows is not to make a profit of selling as many licences as possible (that is just a bonus) but of getting as many people as possible sign up for the monthly subscription.

I think the modern Microsoft is okay with only 50% market share of which 95% pays a monthly fee for the cloud services and regularly buys an app in the app store, than with the current 95% market share of people who just paid the Windows tax and for the rest just profit from the 'free updates'. Especially now when people only need to buy a new PC every 10-15 years or so.

For businesses nothing changes, except for the change from volume licensing to the monthly subscription model for the small businesses. For consumers things change because you have to sign up for the monthly subscription model when you want Office.

I've heard people claim that is is a very good deal because you may install it on up to 5 devices, but they fail to see how expensive a subscription model really is. Buy 5 computers for 2500 dollar and use them for then years: your 5 computers costs you 250 dollar a year. Buy 5 computer for 2500 dollar and sign up for the 10 (?) dollar / month office and your computers will cost you 250 dollar + 10*12 = 360 dollar a year. And that's only when you really have 5 computers in the family. If you only need one PC than it is 50 dollar per year versus 170 dollar a year with the subscription model.
 
How much of the original 500 dollar goes to Microsoft and how much of the monthly subscription fee goes to Microsoft? Do you see where Microsoft it heading to?

Note I do not know the real prices, I'm not a Windows user, but at my work their are plenty of Microsoft fan boys and evangelists.

Personally I'm happy with this change, it will finally make room for potential competitors. Microsoft is not just a one time tax and free for the rest of your hardware's life. Their will be a reoccurring cost and people will start to think about alternatives. And once they have abandoned the Office world, what reason is their to keep on using Windows?

M$ astroturfer once again shilling for M$

[Anonymous Coward]

M$ knows they are dying so they are releasing their digital restrictions management infested drug, Winblows, for free. After all, the first hit is free. Then M$ is going to force their addicts to purchase Vista 10 over some small reason such as updating a simple device. M$ is even sending their astroturfers to claim Vista's digital restrictions management was not as bad as claimed. Now M$ is pushing their Vista 10 lies onto sites such as $lashdot which is now a haven for M$ astroturfers and addicts. Even PJ at Groklaw is getting the shills from M$ in hopes to regain their illegal monopoly. M$ should have their corporate charter revoked then have all of their assets revoked then evenly distributed to the free software community.

--
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Friends do assist M$ addicted friends in committing suicide.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

You got to be joking. I record tv all the time and I use Linux. Quicken? You don't need it, there are replacements. Addiction is your problem, you've locked yourself into proprietary applications and/or are unwilling to try something new. It's a bad habit.

Re:Will they have time control for windows 10 home

[Opportunist]

Huh? Why? What's in it for MS?

Free means less?

[Anonymous Coward]

In many ways Microsoft is simply providing a OS for free with a browser to go with it. That's really it besides some free security which is not that good and some basic tools. Maybe that's not such a bad thing? It does give you more options to pick and choose what you want and yet I wonder how much crapware PC makers will install on Windows 10 machines? How many actually use a DVD player anymore? I have a Xbox for that if I need too. None of what Windows 10 takes away will affect many in the least. If it will, you have plenty of affordable option like VLC to use. The only people it will affect is those who have built a PC up around a entertainment system as use the Media Center as a hub. Otherwise, I think Microsoft did Windows 10 as right as anything Microsoft could do after Windows 8 disaster.

And can't turn off update!

[Anonymous Coward]

The initial poster forgot to mention that you won't get any choice to turn off the auto-update, at least with the home version of Windows 10.

This is a pretty important point, and I'm surprised it isn't being covered more, especially since it seems that the official language tries to disguise it in flowery terms of updates being "available." They're available, alright - on your computer, when Microsoft says, whether you like it or not.

Not and upograde! Wind 10 is a Win 7 down grade.

[Anonymous Coward]

I my case as a heavy user of Media Center and DVD playback with a cable card tuner Windows 10 will be a major functionality down grade foe me.

Win 10 update

[Niko.]

One of the first things i do with a fresh Windows install is head to Services and disable a lot of things i don't need that tend to soak up cycles or dilute security on a game box, like print spooler, remote login, remote registry, superfetch, homegroup, shadow copy etc.

among the services i disable is Windows Update. i manually enable it a couple times a year and choose which updates to allow. i've had no trouble from this policy except that i get a resentful and incorrect desktop reminder that this is not a genooooine copy of Windows whenever the box wakes from sleep and can't call home. a quick trip to Windows Activation and that's sorted.

do i understand correctly that Win 10 has removed the ability to disable Win Update? if so, is this by tweaking the related dependencies, or have they f*d up the Services capability itself?

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[bobbied]

Not sure what you mean by 'making the software available for the existing customer base'.

Only that it will work with the cable card tuner I recently purchased from them and that they will either give or sell me a copy.

Alternate installations

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if in the Windows 10 installation mirrored at SourceForge they can include some of the missing games, like minesweeper and solitaire.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[bobbied]

No one has written a program that runs on Linux that deals with the DRM issues as well as WMC.... At least no one who distributes it under any form available to the general user.

However, this is not to say there are not closed sourced solutions on closed hardware that can do this, because there are those, only that there isn't an open source drop in replacement for WMC that works with the DRM requirements and allows the user to deal correctly with protected content.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[bobbied]

I'll bet you don't record and play protected content.... Which is the issue I have because my cable provider has turned on protection for most of the premium content I use and why I use WMC over an open source solution..

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[thunderclap]

So what happens when the Windows solution to DRM vanishes?

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[bobbied]

I'm SOL.... Yes it worries me a bit, but the fall back solution is to pay the Cable Company for their DVR solution....

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Mr D from 63]

Ah. If you bought one of the new versions, you should be good.

And then ...

[waspleg]

It worked flawlessly because VLC is fucking amazing and one of the best FOSS projects around.

Re:And then ...

[Anonymous Coward]

VLC is fucking garbage. Only a clueless noob would think that it's good.

Forced Updates

[allo]

The NSA feature. You will not be asked, if you want to install the update, which is tailored for you. They just install it as needed.

When can we call Windows 10 a "downgrade"?

[JohnFen]

I had already determined that I'm not upgrading from 7 to 10 (although if I still had a Win 8 machine, I'd certainly upgrade from that). For me, Windows 10 doesn't offer even a single compelling reason to bother with it -- while it makes some things (such as the start menu and search) worse.

But when looking over the list of things that 10 deprecates, I am getting tempted to call 10 a downgrade.

Windows Desktop Environment

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd argue that Windows is a good Desktop Environment that comes with an Operating System. Frankly, the mediocre Unix Desktop Environments really makes me appreciate Windows.

Playing DVDs

[BrinkeGuthrie]

I don't get it. I have Win7---with Windows Media Center. Works great connected to cable TV, I watch the Giants games while I work. So they're killing that. Bravo. If I want to watch The X Files, I pop Scully in the drive and there is Windows Media Player. You mean there's no Media Player in 10? How do I watch DVDs?

False Alarm

[Anonymous Coward]

It was only a misspelling of "defecate".

Re:Solitaire, the real question

[ficuscr]

Wait, I'll loose my Freecell score?

Required: Signed Kernel-mode drivers

[s31523]

I notice that Microsoft lists 'Kernel mode drivers need to be Microsoft signed and compatible with hypervisor enforced code integrity' in their additional requirements section. I wonder if they will make developers pay for this, and, if so what will happen to the support for hardware devices that people out there already have. I understand where they are going with this, but it is likely going to have a lot of unintended consequences.

Re:Required: Signed Kernel-mode drivers

[Blaskowicz]

That's a requirement since Vista x86-64 edition IIRC, though the part about hypervisor may be newer.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[TeddyR]

The Prime (either the HDHR3-CC or HDHR3-6CC-3x2) ARE supported for the SD DVR.

https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...

From the FAQ:
"Unfortunately the HDHR-US and HDHR3-US models don't support the HTTP and channel management features of the newer models used by the DVR system. The HDHR3-CC, HDHR4, and HDTC models are all supported."

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Coren22]

They are supposedly moving the MCE function over to the X-box line, so it is still available, but on absolutely useless hardware.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Coren22]

At this point, Tivo is so cheap comparatively, there is no reason to use the MCE/SiliconDust solution. I just wish there was good support for pulling down Tivo recordings, cutting commercials and reprocessing to MP4 like MCEBuddy.

Re: No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Coren22]

Tivo. That is about it anymore.

I pray for deprecation!

[carbonates]

"Feature deprecation section"

Someone at Microsoft needs to learn English.

The definition of deprecate is as follows:

deprecate: verb (used with object), deprecated, deprecating. 1.to express earnest disapproval of. 2. to urge reasons against; protest against (a scheme, purpose, etc.). 3. to depreciate; belittle. 4. Archaic. to pray for deliverance from.

I prefer #3 as in Microsoft is belittling their own OS, or #4. pray for deliverance from Win 10

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Shirley Marquez]

TiVo is NOT cheap. For starters, there is the monthly fee. Then there is the fact that you cannot easily and inexpensively add more storage. Some of us have multiple terabytes of disk space on our WMC or Kodi systems.

Another disadvantage to TiVo is that your recordings are trapped in the TiVo. If you use Kodi or WMC they are ordinary files that can be backed up, edited, and so forth.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Shirley Marquez]

The problem on Windows 8 was not the codec fee. I think Windows Media Center users would have happily paid the $10. The real problem was that Microsoft also forced you to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro before you could buy it, which made the effective price of WMC on Windows 8 $110 for most potential users, not $10. (Most of them were home users who would have no other reason to buy a copy of Pro, nor would the computers they were shopping for come with it.) That's a difference of an order of magnitude, and it was a deal killer for a lot of people.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Shirley Marquez]

Why shouldn't they want you to have media PCs that just run WMC? That doesn't mean that you don't also have computers that run Windows for some other purpose. The WMC computers are typically being used as fancy set-top boxes and located near the household's TV sets, not in a location where you would normally use them for computing other than perhaps a bit of web browsing while you are watching TV.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Shirley Marquez]

It's another solution where your recordings are trapped inside the box and you can't easily add more storage or back them up. No thank you.

Windows Media Center could have been the set-top box killer, functioning as your TV guide, tuner, and recorder, and also letting you watch streaming video and play games. I'd rather have all that in an expandable system, not a locked down one like the XBox.

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[Coren22]

https://www.tivo.com/shop/roam...

$199 + $499 = $700. How much did you spend on the TV tuner and computer?

http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/ti...

Upgrades are pretty much brain dead simple now. Throw in a new hard drive and off you go. You can also add USB or eSATA hard drives, which is as simple as it can be.

Don't add FUD.

A Tivo can have up to 16 TB of storage. Sure you can get more into a computer, but this is still huge.

Recordings are not trapped in the Tivo, Tivo Desktop is a free piece of software that pulls them off, and they can then easily be converted to MPeg, or just us kmttg. This process is just as complicated as MCE with MCEBuddy. I would like to go to MP4 like MCEBuddy, instead of MPEG with kmttg.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/file...
http://sourceforge.net/project...

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[yithar7153]

Yeah as another poster said Microsoft wants you to do everything on Windows. I'm pretty sure you could do the same thing on Kodi with a Raspberry Pi. It would just take more work. I'm pretty sure there is free scheduling out there. I think it also has to do with the royalties Microsoft has to pay on the codecs.

Re:You Mean...VLC is actively improving software

[Anonymous Coward]

VLC can be improved, the following version could have improvements in the codec.
VLC is actively developed, allowing codecs to be changed and made to work better

Re:No media center? Windows 10 is DEAD to me...

[basscomm]

Trapped inside the box, yes (well, probably, but that's been unrevealed thus far), but you can add 16TB of external storage via external USB drives.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[wv5k]

What the OP means is that DRM TV recording isn't possible on any Linux video system to date. That's because the industry sanctioning body that controls the CableCard spec won't release enough info to Linux developers to come up with support...

n/t

[Anonymous Coward]

— —

Third Grader

[Anonymous Coward]

First off, "bruh" is not a word. The word "pronoun" is not capitalized. Finally, your last "sentence" isn't a sentence. It is a lonely fragment yearning for literal companionship. Evidently, you didn't make it to the fourth grade.

Re:Third Grader

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow do you have an ego. You completely missed my point. You apparently don't get irony either. Well, you can have your English accuracy ego. I'm sure it has to make up for your lack of talent with the ladies.

Re:Exactly. TV Recording is impossible otherwise

[thunderclap]

I understand that. My question was, 'What happens when there is no other solution?"