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The Next Java Update Could Make Yahoo Your Default Search Provider
itwbennett writes: At the company's shareholder meeting on Wednesday, Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer announced a partnership with Oracle that could result in Yahoo becoming your default search provider in your browser. Starting this month, when users are prompted to update to the next version of Java, they'll be asked to make Yahoo their default search engine on Chrome (and Internet Explorer, for what it's worth). And, according to a Wall Street Journal report, the button will be checked by default, so if you aren't looking out for it, you might unwittingly find yourself a Yahoo user.
Seems to me like this will lump them in with Ask.com and other bullshit sites that drive traffic through mostly shady means. Giving up Marissa?
Personally I'd rather have my idiots at home glued to the TV than out doing idiotic things
Gee, I'm awful glad I don't have Java on my personal machine any more.
Because the sleazy bastards running it are mostly interested in their ad revenue.
Here's a thought, guys ... how about you stop trying to change our browsers for your own benefit?
Java is dying under the stewardship of Oracle. The sooner the better.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I like Yahoo search better anyway, Google always gives me results that are unrelated to my search terms.
We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
since that insures greater penetration. Th next step is for other software companies that cut deals with search engines to then push an update of their product with their provider as the default choice. I could see some releasing an update that does little more than update the search engine default.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
This is not significantly different than the current behavior of asking to install Chrome. It could be much worse, and want to install some adware toolbar. Is it really so hard, if you don't uncheck the box, to reset the search provider to the one you want?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Was nice while it lasted.
Going back to Opera Mini.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Oracle, and other company's, opt out crapware installs is one reason that we install Unchecky on all customer's PC's that we service since almost everyone had Ask toolbars, but had no idea how it got installed. This will help the less aware customers avoid crud buildup in their systems, no thanks to a-hole companies like Oracle.
I hope Yahoo has some spare cash; Oracle certainly does. Under EU regulations, you can't just pull these kind of stunts - using the popularity of one product to promote another. That's precisely how the Windows/IE pair led to one of the biggest fines in history. It might be legal in the US; Java certainly doesn't have a monopoly. But Java is significant enough to meet the lower EU bar.
But nowadays anytime you install something it wants to install 3 different toolbars.
The real news here is that Java is now officially crapware.
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
I'd like to see innovation rather than degeneration.
It sucks that Oracle owns Java and is really in one market (not Java).
Yahoo is just trying to stay relevant. I do still use them for email, have been since around 1997.
BlameBillCosby.com
And if you don't uncheck the button on the goddamn Adobe update you get to be a goddamn McAfee user. And...
Get a Mac.
No Java.
Solved.
Easy.
Next they will try to install the Ask toolbar. Sun did this bullshit back in the early 2000's. I am surprised it has taken this long for Oracle to take this step to try to ruin Java.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
I uninstalled Java from all of my PCs months ago and I haven't even noticed any difference.
is a practice that needs to be outright BANNED.
Has been for as long as that Ask.com piece of shit has been snuck in with a pre-selected check box.
Pretty much as soon as Oracle took over as far as I can tell.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Installing once piece of software should not be able to effect any other operation parameter on the system.
If I install Java it should not affect my search engine. The installers job is to install java not go around and make other changes to the system configuration. Makers of anti-virus scanners with guts would block the installer. Just because it provides a prompt for the action does not make it a "safe" operation.
Then, I change it back to whatever. It's obnoxious behavior, but hardly the end of civilization as we know it. Move along, there are bigger fish to fry.
They inherited that from Sun.
Woo hoo!
If Java tries to change by default search engine to Yahoo, one of my 27 toolbars will quickly change it back to Ask.com
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
No, java is something that people want/need which is supplied with bundled crapware that you have to remember to opt out of.
What TFA doesn't make clear is whether this new yahoo thing will be instead of the ask toolbar bundling or in addition to it.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Chrome won't run Java anymore. Soon IE won't either.
What exactly are they trying to accomplish here?
Better than Ask. That's All i'm sayin'...
Ninite, anyone?
I got so fed up of Adobe loading their updates will crapware like McAfee that I stopped installing it altogether. Likewise I've avoided other products which have started bundling stuff in their installers. I'm sure Oracle are compensated for promoting Yahoo from their installer but the reputational damage will suffer could be immense.
Surely any self respecting Slashdotter knows about this:
https://java.com/en/download/faq/disable_offers.xml
Firefox cut a deal with Yahoo too, not because Yahoo is a better search engine for their users, either because Yahoo gave Firefox money or, well, why else would they do it? http://www.dispatch.com/conten...
What sucks is Yahoo sucks. I didn't even notice the browser change by the logo, but I did notice it when it gave bad search results. Changed back to Google, and results were accurate again.
Yahoo, you are the RealPlayer of the search world. File Chapter 5.
Sell short
Desperate companies do desperate things. Sad really.
When was the last time you visited yahoo.com?
Used their email?
Used their games or chat?
Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer announced a partnership with the devil. So long Yahoo.
How is this worthy of a /. post?
1. Ask.com has always been included in Java installations. 2. Yahoo isn't the first to sneak themselves as a replacement search engine. 3. Proper browsers will stop this unless user approves. 4. I can always switch back.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
Oh .. yeah .. here we go!
Yep, me too, _this_ close to jerking Java from my system entirely.
For Chrome, this will be a moot point later this year as the Java Runtime Environment will no longer launch and run applets in it.
https://support.google.com/chr...
The NPAPI block is active now, but there is a way to disable it. With Chrome 45 and later, it will not be possible enable it.
Of course I want to use a search provider that has to hijack my browser to gain any significant marketshare. Why would I want to use the search engine that works best for me, when Oracle can choose a shittier one for me?
Nothing posted to
These kind of updates like Java or Flash should attach nothing to them by default. You should not have to opt out of anything and certainly not make changes to any default settings. This again sounds like a desperate move by Yahoo to stay relevant and maybe this is do to Verizon buying AOL which is a bad move by Verizon but its another nail for Yahoo and Firefox. In fact, I already deem Firefox irrelevant anymore. Its going the same road that Netscape did. Mozilla splintered itself in too many direction and lost focus. What Mayer is doing is nothing short of forcing Yahoo onto people and unfortunately this will be more negative then positive for Yahoo.
It's 2015 and Windows still doesn't have a package manager? Oh wait, it does...
C:\> choco install jre8
Adobe tries to slip in MacAfee on you when you download their pdf reader.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
When you don't have what it takes, just resort to such underhanded tactics as this. Great move - people are sure to be happy to have Yahoo! rammed down their throats.
I guess it's time for Fuck You Marissa Mayer" in Reddit
.
imo, anyone who blindly accepts the default installer options gets the malware they deserve.
Yahoo still exists? ...
You guys are so 2002
Forced Opt-in by default is ILLEGAL in the EU.
Opt-in in the EU is by LAW/Directives to be OPTIONAL by default.
Another example of American companies not understanding nor giving a fuck about our rights in Europe.
I hope somebody takes them to the EU courts over these practices. Same with the annoying defaults of installing Chrome on installers.
Google is already in the courts, time to bring Yahoo in and many others (Valve with steam etc). Apple has been through it with iTunes.
If you're going to include an obscure technology like Java in the article. Could you please explain what it is?
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
That this CEO has no clue at all.
Nothing like ramming your company down people's throats to get them to like you.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I know that many would ridicule that such a program is necessary/useful on windows, and some others might rather avoid software with bundled crapware checked by default in the installers, but Unchecky is a great, lightweight (less than 1MB RAM) freeware that watches installers and automatically unchecks the boxes for things like offers in the Java installer, Bing toolbar/bing default in the Skype installer, and other unwanted bundled installs.
I run it as a convenience to not uncheck the boxes manually, but for relatives (e.g. grandma) it's fantastic because it saves me from removing five toolbars every month.
In Windows, use the Java Control Panel and select the "Advanced" tab.
At the very bottom of the list, completely out-of-sight unless you scroll aaaaaaal the way down, in a category called "Beware of the Leopard"... no, sorry, I meant "Miscellaneous"... there's a checkbox labeled "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java".
Of course, by default it's not checked. Because money.
But check it and apply or "OK" the settings change. In the current implementation, this prevents bundling the Ask.com malware with Java upgrades -- it's a pre-opt-out, and you never have to think of it again. (At least, until Oracle decides the option should auto-magically unset itself when the user's not looking. Because money.)
Assuming this option continues to exist in future Oracle Java versions and is honored for the Yahoo tie-in, this would alleviate the pre-opt-in crapware issue. Big assumptions, of course, because Oracle.
(Or alternately, don't install Java if you don't actually need it. Or install OpenJava rather than Oracle's.)
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
On Yahoo Email, there are mandatory ad emails showing on top and one cannot delete those.
If you click on one under Firefox, a link opens but is blocked.
Looks the more BS they produce the more desperate they get and produce even more crap.
Digging their own grave it seems.
Maybe it has to do with the "upper crust people" beeing control freaks and out of touch with reality when things don't go like they should in their minds.
Why install Java on desktop systems anymore - unless you're forced to by some hideous commercial application you're stuck with?
(For that matter, why install Adobe Flash - unless you just have to watch every cat-video and fail-video there ever way.)
Does this mean that Oracle will be producing a Java plugin thats compatible with Chrome???
Aside from the issues of self-signed certificates and strict requirements on whitelisting this might actually make it possible for me to use Chrome to do my job (which involves connecting to remote KVM/iDRAC/ILO systems which require a Java client).
Otherwise, yeah no way Oracle, no one is going to install Java any more if they are using Chrome and don't really REALLY need Java (in which case they'll use a different browser).
In other words, if Oracle doesn't produce a non-NPAPI plugin, then client side Java will be in the wastebasket of history soon; its only a matter of time before its no longer supported in other browsers than Chrome.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Because OpenJDK says to do this
If you came here looking for Oracle JDK 8 product binaries for Solaris, Linux, Mac OS X, or Windows, which are based largely on the same code, you can download them from java.oracle.com.
Is Oracle actively trying to kill Java? Each and every time they do this kind of hostile actions on their users, a portion of their users uninstall the Java.
Yes, because tricking people and manipulating their settings without their full acknowledgement is a sure fire way to gain brand loyalty. Idiots.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Does anyone know if there exists, or can we start, a project like this:
(1) They distribute binaries for Windows (32-bit and 64-bit). Other platforms would be awesome, too, but Linux already has great OpenJDK support in package managers, so that may not even be necessary. Windows is the platform where it really sucks.
(2) They have a custom-designed updater that schedules itself to run every so often (say, every 2 weeks); launches; checks for an update; and then *EXITS* if it doesn't find one. If it does find one, it gives the user a simple "Yes/No/Ask Later" prompt: if they pick Yes, it'll silently remove the old OpenJDK version and install the new one; if they pick "No" it'll skip that version and only remind them when the next update comes out; and it'll bug them next week if they click "Ask Later". Once it finishes whatever it has to do, it EXITS, rather than remaining in virtual memory forever like the Oracle Java updater.
(3) No adware. All components free and open source software. Installer should only depend on FOSS (no InstallShield, etc.).
(4) Gives user the option to enable/disable Java plugins for each browser detected to be installed on the system, at install-time, and can be configured after install via a config GUI. Default should be to NOT install the Java plugins, since they have had a history of severe vulnerabilities, but users are free to request their installation anyway.
(5) Installer should come in two forms: a "net installer" that has a tiny size (1 MB or less) and only downloads the requested components at runtime (allowing user to select whether they want the source code, the JDK or just the JRE, etc.), and an "offline installer" that contains the entire kitchen sink and does not need Internet connectivity (for environments behind a restrictive proxy, or no network connection).
(6) User should have the option to install OpenJDK without admin rights! If they don't have admin rights, stick it in AppData\Local and put the plugins in a similarly user-scoped folder (not possible with IE as far as I know, but should work with Chrome and Firefox). Auto-detect whether the user can be an admin, and only give the UAC prompt if the user's account can actually accept the prompt; otherwise, fall back to "non-admin" install.
Gee, sounds like if nothing like this exists, I have the requirements / design doc in my head...
If I disappear in my room for a week and don't emerge until this thing is on github, tell my family and my cat that I love them.
and her shitty company
When people ask me to help them get java working I say no bloody way. My simple theory is that Java in the enterprise might be a good thing but java on the home machine is just asking for trouble. To me Java has a perfect storm of people not wanting it. First is that Java must be regularly updated to keep it safe. But I don't trust these updates to not screw me over in some fashion, either through malware such as this or simply popping up at an inconvenient time. For instance I am often recording video tutorials. There is nothing worse than some software update popup showing up in the middle. Especially if it is one of these focus grabbing popups. But the java update is a total bastard as it keeps turning itself back on after I keep turning it off.
So I basically danced around my office when I read that chrome and firefox were pretty much killing Java as an extension/addon.
But adding malware to their install just makes me laugh at how stupid these MBAs are. Yes in the next few quarters they will make lots of money. But how many quarters before people will have significantly reduced their downloads?
Also for Yahoo, I hate Ask.com for their trashy approach to getting users. Make a great product and then people might come. Fooling them into coming is just scummy. So now people will lump Yahoo in with the various sites that over the years have tried to use deception as their marketing tool.
For those of you out there all touchy about Java, my comments are not about the Java language, but the java product.
I think we're missing the real story here.
The article is suggesting that Java update _actually works_ and is capable of _updating Java_.
I can't remember the last time that was true.
Thank goodness I don't use Java or have it installed. It's a dog and will never be installed on any PC I use.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
The late near-death version of Sun that was a stinking carcass that Oracle could buy cheap, maybe.
Ok, we know it won't reach out to entire internet.
Those, who will switch back to google/bing, are anyway not yahoo's customers, so why would they care about annoying them?
On the other hand, some people might discover yahoo this way and, well, stick with it.
I downloaded Java yesterday and saw that it had the Yahoo option already in there and pre-checked for my convenience....
The will to live is very strong, stronger than rationalism. A panicked drowning person will try to climb on the shoulders of a would-be rescuer, not caring that this will kill both of them. RIP Java AND Yahoo!
OpenJdk is the new reference version of Java anyhow. There was a time when the Oracle version was way ahead, but that isn't true any more. Nobody should be using the Oracle version of Java. http://openjdk.java.net/
Also for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK
Since they love offering ads with their installers, why not just save time and effort and have SF wrap the installers for them?
"Assholes."
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft]
"SPONSORS"="DISABLE"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\JavaSoft]
"SPONSORS"="DISABLE"
The screen with the checkboxes does not even appear.
Why does my computer keep searching using Yahoo! I must have a virus!
That's just Java... I'll be over shortly to reset it for you and uninstall Java. -_-
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
It's a given that sophisticated users like those who read Slashdot know that if they don't know something, all they have to do is go to a reliable source, like Wikipedia's entry on the subject.
I admit, the article was a bit confusing and I didn't see anything about compatibility with modern operating systems, but one thing that was clear is that installing Java is going to bloat your system big-time. I have a big drive, but I'm not sure if I can fit another 143 million users on my system.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The real news here is that Java is now officially crapware.
Now? Java has a long history of being crap.
Java's security track record makes Microsoft look good.
Java memory hogging makes Firefox look good.
Sadly, Java is one of those "enterprisey" things that senior management has bought into, and isn't removed easily.
You can't blame Yahoo!, Ask, McAffee/Intel for these deceptive installs. Blame Oracle for offering them for sale.
For those that argue that they aren't deceptive and that they are presented as an option; the practice is intentionally designed to play on clueless user behavior by defaulting to install this crapware EVERY FUCKING TIME Java issues an update. Regardless of whether it is readily presented as an option to not install the crapware, they know exactly what they are doing, how people will react, and why.
Fuck Oracle!
The irony. Just this morning my neighbor asked me to fix her search because it got changed somehow. At first I thought it must have been some malware. And now i see this article. I guess i wasn't that off after all.
is it that closed-source thing they use to use before cython got good?
Since this could hurt Google's direct line of business, Google should buy PostgreSql, and pump scaling money and promotion into it to eat into Oracle's sales.
Table-ized A.I.
Fuck Yahoo.
Settings > Control Panel > Java > Advanced tab
Scroll down to the Miscellaneous section (bottom of the list)
Populate the checkbox labeled "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java"
I guarantee it will be in addition.
Why screw the user over once for money, when you can screw the user twice in the same sitting for more money?
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I distinctly remember trying to remotely support my nephew, and leading him through the install of Java, so that we could play minecraft together.
Now, not only was this incredibly difficult (it was a windows labtop, his mother's laptop no less, ugh) but at the end of the Java install, he had to stop because dinner was ready.
A few hours later, I got a very angry call from his mother, basically saying that I had conned her son, and that now her computer was infected with a virus.
After calming her down, I had realized that I had not told my nephew to check the oracle java installer, and ensure to tell it NOT to change the default home page or search provider in their browser (IE), so what actually happened is that when his mom started browsing, she was presented with an entire different homepage and search bar. And, of course, she freaked (I would have too if I had her level of knowledge).
So, in the end, Oracle corp cost me some brownie points and lost me a minecraft player, all because they STUPIDLY get into licensing deals with search engines to falsely promote their use through a deceptive practice of automatically opting into a change I neither expected, or desired, or even consented too (I'm sorry, but a default of 'Yes' does NOT mean I gave consent, I don't care what legal mumbo jumbo you put in the EULA).
So, Oracle
FUCK YOU
When they do this, the top ranking search on yahoo will be "how do I change my default search engine back to google or whatever"
A terrible product, forced on people, will never be a good strategy. It just makes people hate the terrible product even more.
so if you aren't looking out for it, you might unwittingly find yourself a Yahoo user.
Isn't that how all Yahoo users become Yahoo users?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Right, because tricking customers users that don't pay close enough attention into using services they don't want to use is a great way to endear someone to your brand.
These sort of deals, especially for companies like Yahoo and Oracle, do reek of a end of sorts in the near to mid-term future (2-5 years for Yahoo, quite a bit more for Oracle due to entrenchment).
What sort of end? I don't know.
BlameBillCosby.com
Nothing new, both Java and Adobe have been packaging junk with their installers for years. In all honesty, I would rather be asked to install something from Yahoo than from Ask or McAfee.
>" they'll be asked to make Yahoo their default search engine on Chrome (and Internet Explorer, for what it's worth)"
I guess that means Firefox is the best choice... yet again!
so not sure what the problem is.
That's funny as fuck right there! A low SIX DIGIT user calling others irrelevant. BWAHAHHAHA! Hate to tell ya, Greyballs, but you're old and should feel old for being old.
It's amazing to me how much Slashdot readers hate discussing business management. Discussing business management is often painful, but I think we should accept the pain and get the job done. For example:
Marissa Meyer is not competent, in my opinion. A dishonest or sneaky CEO should be fired. This is the 2nd recent nasty manipulation Meyer has arranged. This is the first:
Has Firefox been Embraced and Extended with the intention of Extinguishing it by Microsoft? Mozilla Foundation now gets most of its money from Microsoft. Microsoft pays Yahoo. Yahoo pays Mozilla Foundation to make "Yahoo search" (actually Microsoft Bing search) the default search engine in Firefox. Most people don't have the technical knowledge to know how they've been manipulated, or how to restore the default search engine to Google search. Marissa Meyer's sneakiness is damaging Firefox's reputation.
The Thunderbird and SeaMonkey Composer GUIs have been damaged, apparently deliberately. Every time you do a file save, the newer versions of both ask for a new file name, and don't suggest the last file name chosen. The damage was reported several months ago, but has not been fixed. Is that another example of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? People who feel forced away from Thunderbird may choose Microsoft software to replace it. Is that what Microsoft is trying to accomplish?
Change in subject: It's amazing how fast computer programming languages die. Pascal died in 2 years. Java is almost dead because the U.S. government issued a very negative warning.
You are assuming that the toolbar doesn't lock you out of the search settings so you can't change them back. For your own protection, of course.
"I just reply to you when I see you spamming Slashdot with your nonsense"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)
Why'd you agree w/ my points on hosts then? Quoting you:
"I'm not denying all those things" - by dave420 (699308) on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @11:39AM (#47927435) FROM -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
Of course not: It's impossible to dispute HOSTS FILES superiority to other methods!
Since my points in favor of hosts SINGLE FILE native kernelmode faster part show hosts doing more w/ less vs. so-called 'competitors' many part messagepassing + cpu/ram use overheads laden slower usermode FAR MORE COMPLEX 'solutions' doing less than hosts do for more security, speed, reliability, + anonymity!
I make creating a superior more efficient solution EASIER!
(That's more than a mere trolling stalking harassing "ne'er-do-well" like yourself could *EVER* manage).
---
"I'm simply pointing out that it takes an AdBlocker to block your spamming"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)
I bother you? Then WHY DON'T YOU DO IT & use 'em? Answer that!
(You stalk/harass me instead!)
OBVIOUSLY you don't & you're a "ne'er-do-well" troll & you have "other motivations" (next):
---
* QUESTION:
DO YOU WORK FOR AN ADVERTISING FIRM, or ARE YOU A WEBMASTER/WEBCODER http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , or a MALWARE MAKER, or ARE YOU AFFILIATED WITH 1 OF MY COMPETITORS?
Answer it!
As per your usual you'll avoid every question, or lie & You've been EXPOSED in your "motives" in the last link just above, lol!
APK
P.S.=> See Dave420 the "pot puffing clown" SQUIRM - evasions galore will ensue (as well as effete downmods via sockpuppets to *try* vainly "hide it" -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )... apk
A friend is currently playing around with the latest alpha^H^H^H^H^H insider preview of Windows 10 (wow is that thing unstable...), and when he installed Chrome and tried to set it to default, a pop up appeared saying that you can only change the default application by going into the control panel and changing it explicitly.
I have to admit that this is a good thing. With so many applications hijacking file and URL associations, it's inevitable that the option needs to be removed from them.
I regret not making the link read
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...
Hint: When "&oldid=" is used, "title=" is ignored. In fact, it doesn't even have to be present.
These all refer to the same thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
How would it work?
Yahoo is just a default search setting (if it's like yahoo when you sometimes see it as default in firefox), Ask.com I believe that's malware that hijacks the search setting no matter if you try to change it back. In layperson's words we might as well call it a virus or in old fashioned computer speak, a trojan.
The Ask.com trojan would run and set "Ask" as the search provider, thus pushing Yahoo search out of the way. It would be a rather lousy deal for Yahoo.
where is the installer's preference for installing the java browser plugin? has it ever had one? the grand majority of java users don't need that highly exploitable browser plugin, they're just installing java for minecraft.
I am not and haven't been for a while and just another reason not to.
if site needs java i don;t need that site.
only grudgingly running flash
I've repeatedly sent complaints to Adobe and Oracle over the years telling them that they are being underhanded in the "pre-checking" of the tick boxes - ie - requiring users to opt out. I actually have had to go around and instruct users to read their screens and not blindly click next. If anyone has solid strategies to ensure that only clean versions of Flash, Acrobat Reader, and Java make it to the desktop I'd love to see them. We're a not-for-profit of less than 200 users, so cost is an issue.