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US Toddlers Involved In Shootings On a Weekly Basis (washingtonpost.com)
New submitter fremsley471 writes with this story by Christopher Ingraham about shooting accidents involving children 3 and under in The United States. There were at least 43 cases this year of shootings involving a toddler. The Washington Post reports: "This week a 2-year-old in South Carolina found a gun in the back seat of the car he was riding in and accidentally shot his grandmother, who was sitting in the passenger seat. This type of thing happens from time to time: a little kid finds a gun, fires it, and hurts or kills himself or someone else. These cases rarely bubble up to the national level except when someone, like a parent, ends up dead. But cases like this happen a lot more frequently than you might think. Briefly sifting through news reports found at least 43 instances this year of somebody being shot by a toddler 3 or younger. In 31 of those 43 cases, a toddler found a gun and shot himself or herself."
Where are the laws that keep toddlers from obtaining guns?
Is there any reason at all for this to be on Slashdot, except to push a general political agenda?
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
Guns, after all, aren't a factor in people being shot, guns don't make you shoot anyone.
Thus we need to ban toddlers instead.
It is a perfect solution. Nobody likes them they cry, they behind, and they make stinky poops.
Slashdot is dead. Just another pushing point for a major political parties agenda even if it has nothing to do with Slashdot user base.
The problem is likely much worse. Few events that should make the news are more quickly swept under the rug than accidental shootings. The ones that do make it through end up either buried in the back-most of the back pages, or written off in creative ways. A particularly egregious example of the latter made the slashdot front page years ago as Accidental Wii Suicide when a toddler got ahold of dad's loaded, unlocked revolver that was sitting within her reach and killed herself.
And of course what happens to the gun owners (if they are lucky enough to not be the ones shot)? Generally nothing. Not even charges investigated, law enforcement just says "shit happens" and walk away.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I am a gun owner. I have a permit and I carry daily. I support our rights to own firearms and refuse to give mine up. I believe that anyone who does this has a great responsibility to society to be trained, secure their weapon, and to be responsible. It should be a felony to leave a weapon unsecured and unsupervised. If a child acquires a weapon from you and uses it to harm himself or commit a crime you should be charged with a felony.
Only if you prove you took adequate steps to secure your weapon (safe, trigger locks, etc) should you be able to walk away free. We need to encourage responsible gun ownership and punish irresponsible gun ownership. These types of situations are preventable simply through education and a little bit of punishment.
I had a soldier bring his personal firearm to the reserve center, and accidently shoot the house next door. You can train and train someone, and they will go off and do something stupid anyway.
Toddlers kill people.
So these shootings are a win for them.
Next will be a pro or anti abortion post?
You are all cows. Cows say moo. MOOOOO! MOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU BANG BANG COWS!!
We need more good toddlers with guns to stop all those bad toddlers with guns.
The people have spoken and shootings are acceptable. Move on, buy Kevlar
... babies kill people.
Clearly the problem is that USA doesn't have enough guns. If the grandmother had had a gun, she could have shot the grandchild before the grandchild shot her.
Less guns means less gun violence.
There are places in the world where there is very little gun violence.
Those places all have one thing in common: Less guns.
I love my country, but if you don't think it's insane that small children are shooting people on a regular basis with weapons, legally purchased or not, you are part of the problem.
There what, 330 million people in the US, and about 24 million are ages 0-5. 43 shootings involving toddlers is obviously bad for those involved, but hard to call it a pressing problem. Drownings are affecting far more children than this.
So, I find that there are generally two arguments:
--You can't take my guns
--Ban all the guns
My thoughts are that, the "Ban all the guns" group is wishful thinking. That ship has sailed, and if you try to ban guns, then only outlaws will have guns, and I don't think that's any good.
For those folks that want guns, I think that's all fine and well and good, but the owner of the gun must be held criminally responsible if the gun kills anybody. If your toddler picks up the gun and kills grandma, you are on the hook for murder. If a gun is available to a toddler (or anybody, really), you can count on the toddler to kill somebody. Period.
I don't have a gun in my house, but if I want one, I still want to be able to have one. But if my kid shoots somebody with it, I need to be put in jail because of it.
It boggles the mind, however, that somebody would be dumb enough to think a toddler wouldn't pick up a gun and explore their world - like the woman that was killed when her toddler pulled the gun out of her purse while shopping at Wal Mart. That's just stupid, and she paid the price.
First, I agree that this particular story probably shouldn't be on ./ . Secondly, I am biased on the issue of gun control. I think that responsible citizens should be allowed to own and use guns.
The real issue is gun safety. I shot my first gun when I was 3. You better believe that my dad kept his firearms locked up unloaded with the ammo in a different safe. Each of us (my sister included!) were taught how to safely handle guns. We knew to stand behind whoever was shooting, aim the barrel at the ground until we were ready to shoot, how to hand the gun to the next person in line, etc. If you are going to have weapons, store them properly so they aren't mistaken for toys by toddlers, and teach gun safety to everyone near them. Perhaps there should be a gun license (or a certificate for having completed a safety course) which must be shown when purchasing firearms.
This is really no different than in the past when a child would wander away from the group/outside the cave and get eaten by a wolf/bear/other hungry animal. Those who were lucky or smart enough not to get eaten passed on their genes. Those who weren't, didn't.
Same thing here. Only the method of demise is different.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The problem here is fairly clearly people making inappropriate choices about guns; perhaps because they take the 'small' in 'small arms' a bit too seriously.
Toddlers don't understand firearm risks; but they also aren't that strong. Some peashooter little handgun left around where they can find it? Terrible plan. A nice squad automatic weapon or anti material rifle? Is the kid going to operate something that weighs more than he does?
So many of these tragedies could have been averted if people had just chosen bigger guns.
43, huh?
http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/N... "Unintentional suffocation - which also includes strangulation and choking on food or other objects - killed 1,176 U.S. children in 2010."
Just search a little and find all the other ways toddlers kill themselves and others. One of my friends with kids described it as largely being comprised of keeping his kid from killing himself all the time until he got old enough to try to kill himself less often. That's what happens when anything dangerous is anywhere near a toddler for whatever small amount of time it takes for them to do the wrong thing with it - and there are LOTS of dangerous things around, with plastic bags being higher on the list than firearms.
Seems are appropriate: https://youtu.be/63i1yCswEtI?t=272
You have the right to remain dead.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Is there any reason at all for this to be on Slashdot, except to push a general political agenda?
It's worse than you might think.
By associating toddlers with gun shootings they're making an emotional argument against gun ownership.
In short, we need to clamp down on gun ownership because we've now inflated the likelihood of a tragic incident in the minds of the reader. We do this by showing the enormous, large number without context, and by making it seem continuous and ever present.
Consider what your teenage daughter might think on reading the headline: One child a week gets shot! OMG!
This is just another non-evidence-based appeal for gun control, brought to light because the democrats are using the issue to help get elected.
And then, of course, they'll do nothing. Again.
Think it through. What contextual information might put the "one toddler a week" meme into perspective, and make it seem less important?
How many cases a year are there of toddlers getting ahold of tools that make heat or flame, and burning their houses down? Powerful, unsecured tools, combined with people who don't understand what they are, leads to dangerous misuse of the tools. Considering how many guns are in the USA, one incident a week isn't that large compared to other toddlers-plus-dangerous-stuff incidents; I imagine knives and cars kill more.
The NRA supports this... So these shootings are a win for them.
Actually the NRA is the premier organization for firearms safety instruction, both for civilians and law enforcement. Preventing such accidents is the NRA's primary mission. Political activism is a secondary thing forced upon them.
The NRA believes that all firearms owners should seek competent safety instruction when buying that first firearm. They certify instructors, develop training materials, etc. They just don't believe in a government run system for such training since state government could deprive a citizen of ownership by failing to provide instructors or materials for mandated classes. Such things have been done in the past.
Hell, such games are still occurring, note the closing of all department of motor vehicle offices in some "black" counties in alabama just as drivers licenses will be required to vote.
Think of the children!
With guns!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
It is a felony in California. After a rash of incidents that involved children getting a hold of guns, California passed a law that made the owner of the firearm strictly liable and responsible if a child was able to obtain possession of that firearm and do any damage with it.
To go even further, when you purchase a firearm in California there is a disclosure of this law to the purchaser and the purchaser is forced to by a lock with a handgun.
After this law, the rate of incidents involving children accessing guns went down dramatically.
Citation needed, but if true this is the most informative comment here: it presents concrete steps which seem to have successfully addressed the problem and may provide a model for further work.
Personally I think a parent who loses a child has suffered enough ninety-nine times out of a hundred, but if data shows it saves kids lives, yes, we should move toward strict liability.
1,210,000 babies are killed by abortion every year in the US.
43 baby shootings/being shot.
Official population of the US(Minus the 40 Million illegal alien invaders) is 318,900,000
Babies killed by a Doctor - 0.37943%
Babies killed by a bullet - 0.000013%
And do that over decades and it starts to look even worse at 50 Million dead from abortion and 400 from a bullet.
You know, most gun owners go through reasonable safety precautions, and even the ignorant will at least complete a concealed carry course to learn the basics.
That is not the problem.
Auto accidents still kill far more children, and yet there isn't the handwringing over automobile ownership. And the vast majority of auto accidents are attributable to driver error, i.e. being stupid behind the wheel.
So exactly how do you fix that? Most people will not get an adequate assessment of the limitations of their capabilities until it is too late and the damage is done.
I mean it is fine and good to pay lip service to responsibility, but in a world where most people are irresponsible, you might as well be wishing for unicorns.
Government can kill 4 unarmed protesters without any criminal charges being levied against it.
Government can take your home and sell it to a large multinational corporation
Government can force you to take photographs at someone else's religious function
Government can force you to buy a contract from a private insurance company that you normally would not purchase
Imagine if we are completely disarmed what government could do. Maybe we are losing our responsibility to own arms and should just trust that government not to use force again in the above manner.
There were at least 43 cases this year of shootings involving a toddler.
Someone needs to take that kid's gun away.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Guns are tools and, like many other tools, can be misused. Would there be the same outrage if a toddler got hold of a cordless power drill and accidentally injured his grandmother with it? Granted the chance of a fatal injury is higher with a firearm, but the responsibility for proper access and use of any tool is with both the user and owner - and I would argue on a sliding scale of which one is most capable of being most responsible.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
According to:
http://www.livescience.com/448...
10 people die of drowning every day.
Therefore guns are aprox 70 times safer than pools.
Why there is no anti-pool agenda?
I am not a gun owner. I think gun ownership in general should be heavily restricted in this country, and most types of firearms should be banned outright. The only way to reduce gun violence in this country is to get rid of most guns. Less guns means less gun violence.
Two counterexamples to prove you wrong. Mexico. Switzerland.
In particular in Switzerland target shooting is popular. There are many semiautomatics with detachable magazines, something that would be considered an "assault weapon" is various misinformed circles. However what does Switzerland have. Proper background checks, proper safety training and proper safe storage for one. Secondly they don't have much in the way of poorly educated and hopeless.
So no, its not the guns. Guns are just scapegoats for failed educational and socioeconomic policies here in the U.S.
So isn't this essentially arguing for Disneyfying the world to keep kids safe?
Ban all porn (or at least require training in the proper handling and storage before downloading that file).
Alternatively ban or require sex education (even though there is scant proof comprehensive sex education reduces teen pregnancy. Ditto banning it).
And of course all manner of food, drugs, video games, D&D, etc.
It just strikes me as peculiar that some will argue for personal responsibility and freedom of choice when their favored thingy is under fire, and in the same breath argue for regulation and restriction when it is someone else's favorite thingy.
And in the past few decades we have moved increasingly towards Disneyfying the world. I would just like some honesty to which degree the world should cater exclusively to children.
At least 1 child dies every 5 days from choking on something (https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/injury_prevention/choking_prevention_for_children.htm)
About 700 children died annually between 2005-2009 from accidental drowning. (http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html)
Two children die per day from poisoning (the stats list 0-19 years of age, so can't compare 1:1 with toddlers). (http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/poisoning/index.html?s_cid)
My point here is, while tragic, guns are one of the least things you need to worry about killing your toddlers. And in most cases it comes down to irresponsible parenting. You properly monitor them and ensure they can't get access to ANY dangerous things (not just guns) and they will be much more likely to survive.
I thought this was Slashdot not Huffingtonpost, every week some leftist/se ism issue is posted, how about we tackle the 50K suicides or the >500K heart disease deaths or >500K cancer deaths but then again those aren't politically divisive issues that instigate dumb dumbstruck to argue with each other
SlashDot readers are by and large smart people, educated people.
They are the ones that analyze the instructions manuals for new microwave ovens and TV sets, or new gadgets of every description. As gun owners, it stands to reason that they would also seek education and training on proper gun handling, storage safety, shooting skills, and could probably rattle off all the engineering specs of the firearm and the ammo they use.
Despite what you may think, the NRA is an excellent resource on gun safety and training as well as shooting for sport and fun.
This is a clear example of natural selection in action guys.
Please lets not eliminate every possible way that mother nature can weed out the less intelligent.
If you want to be the huffington post then fucking be the huffington post and quit being about tech
For the most part, it is physically impossible for a toddler to chamber a round in most guns (unless we're talking about a revolver, but they represent a very small percentage of pistols these days). I, personally, never keep a round chambered in my pistol I carry regularly. I can pull the gun, turn the safety off, operate the action, and be ready to fire in about a second. I am not in high risk situations from day to day, like law enforcement, where the chances of me needing to operate my gun with one hand while fending someone off with the other is very likely. I can guarantee that almost every one of these people whose toddlers fired their pistol are not in high risk situations either.
So my question is why do so many people feel the need to have a round chambered at all times?
Further, I think a part of the problem is guns like Glocks have no actual safety. My conceal carry weapon has a safety which locks the action, prevents the trigger from being pulled, and physically prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin. It also serves as a de-cock mechanism. If I were to carry a round chambered, I would have the gun de-cocked, and since it is also double-action, I can just flip the safety and pull the trigger (which takes a tremendous amount of pressure when not cocked), which is still vastly safer in the hands of a child. Not only do Glocks not have safeties, but you can't de-cock them either. They are weapons designed more for military and police type use, where nothing should come in the way of the fun firing when the trigger is pulled.
So the problem is two-fold: 1) Don't keep a round chambered unless you feel the need to discharge the weapon is imminent. 2) If you have children, select a gun that has actual safety mechanisms (you know, a "safety") that enhances safety and prevents accidental discharges or operation by children.
Better known as 318230.
...of legal and responsible gun owners did not have any issues or break any laws. But let's go ahead and focus on the 0.001% that are not responsible strip away rights because of it.
and?
We really need to see what the statistics of other causes of injury for toddlers are before we can decide how big of a problem this is.
There is not, nor will there be any further debate about gun control. The NRA has won unequivocally.
The US, as a people, will continue to heap the dead onto the altar of the second amendment barring a supernatural event. The deaths of first graders at Sandy Hook should have proved that for what ever reason, Americans are comfortable with massacring themselves.
The gun debate is dead and the US will brag to itself that it's the free-est country on Earth. They're actually convinced this is evidence of how great and exceptional they are. Stop wasting your breaths.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Lock up more folks for longer. That'll teach em...
What? You say we're locking up too many people for way too long for "non-violent" crimes and the prison system is way too huge and corrupt already?
Convenient how that just flies out the window when it seems to suit your agenda.
How about we count up how many children die each year from choking on otherwise harmless objects and from drowning and from running out in the street and getting hit by cars and from falling down stairs, and from not being properly restrained in a car seat when an accident occurs (or placed in the front seat of a car with airbags that can't be disabled), not to mention being shaken by an adult when they won't stop crying, etc. Hint, it's in the THOUSANDS of DEATHS per year, compared with 43 "shootings," many of which were not even fatal for anyone. Parents make mistakes. You will never achieve 0% stupidity in parenting, even if you required a "parenting license" (which would be ludicrous anyway). Parents are often over-stressed and under-rested, and nobody gives them a through owners manual for their kid. Parents needs help and support and advice, not longer prison sentences when they get absent-minded and screw up.
So yes, there absolutely should be laws about keeping firearms away from young children, and those laws _already exist_ and have reasonable penalties attached to them. Stiffer sentences WILL NOT DO A DAMN THING to reduce this, period! You think parents who lose their child or a family member (or themself) due to carelessly leaving a gun in reach of a child just plan to do it thinking "eh, I'll only do a little time, or maybe probation and a fine, here you go 2-year-old, have at" or what?!
Some things that might ACTUALLY help, if one is really concerned about this problem instead of just using it as a convenient excuse to spout gun control BS:
More awareness campaigns to remind gun owners about the dangers, and about the laws already on the books. This could be provided via public service announcements, social media, literature and advice/signage at gun stores, packaging materials (I think it's already there) and perhaps even included with the other information provided to new parents at the hospital.
Perhaps a brief but mandatory training program for purchasers (but have to be careful not to create yet another monstrous and expensive bureaucracy around it, or set it up in such a way that gun advocates might see it as a way to block legitimate purchases).
A _reasonable_ child safety mechanism for new guns (not some complicated and awkward crap that makes the gun nearly useless to the actual owner nor one that requires expensive advanced technology that drives costs through the roof and may not even be reliable). Something as simple as a mechanism that requires a larger had or more strength than a young child's. Say, to take the safety off you just have to firmly hold the grip in order to unlock it, an action that's fairly quick and natural.
The answer's simple. Ensure all small children are armed so that in the advent of a child "going rogue" another 4 year old can take them down.
In other news, more children die by accidental gun fire than cops are fatally shot in the line of duty. That's 29 officers so far in 2015 (see https://www.odmp.org/search/year) versus 13 _toddlers_ fatally shooting _themselves_, not to mention other accidental shooting fatalities of toddlers or other young children. (I say young children to avoid the common excuse that most child gunfire fatalities involve ghetto gang kids.)
And yet we've built a military police state (i.e. SWAT, etc) largely on the justification of protecting cops' lives. But requiring handgun or other firearm purchasers to attend mandatory safety classes? God forbid....
Auto accidents still kill far more children, and yet there isn't the handwringing over automobile ownership. And the vast majority of auto accidents are attributable to driver error, i.e. being stupid behind the wheel.
So exactly how do you fix that? Most people will not get an adequate assessment of the limitations of their capabilities until it is too late and the damage is done.
How often do you have to take the written and driving tests when renewing your driver's license?
Looks like Dice and slashdot are gearing up for the election year - with all the usual liberal talking points. The only question is who's paying for it?
until they start harming fetuses.
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2015: 23
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2014: 31
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 1998-present: 660
Average number of U.S. child heatstroke fatalities per year since 1998: 37
Children involved in 2014 Nontraffic Fatalities (as of 6/18/15):
Backovers: 71
Frontovers: 63
Vehicle set in motion: 5
Underage Driver: 16
Drowning: 3
Power Window Strangulation: 2
Fall from Vehicle: 1
Other: 1
Total: 194
Every year, thousands of children are hurt and dozens are killed because a driver, usually a parent, backing up didn't see them.
Every year, thousands of children are hurt or and dozens are killed because a driver, usually a parent, moving forward very slowly didn't see them. These incidents for the most part take place in residential driveways or parking lots and are referred to as ‘frontovers.’ (the opposite of a backover).
"Guns don't kill toddlers. Toddlers kill toddlers."
fyi twice as many drown in a year. No one wants to ban mr bucket, but then mr bucket can't stop THEM from imposing their will upon you.
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroo...
lose != loose
The only choices here aren't "ban guns" vs. "Black Talon HP loaded magazines in every preschool".
IMHO, it is recklessly common to carry firearms in "Condition 1"(Round in the chamber, safety on) or worse: no safety + heavy double action trigger.
A lot of these deaths could be prevented by carrying in "Condition 3"(No round in the chamber) aka "The Israeli Method":
http://tgace.com/2011/11/08/condition-1-carry-vs-the-israeli-method/
The Israeli's have a much higher probability of needing a sidearm than a random college freshman or grandma in the United States and this method of carry is way more practical for the masses because it reduces the complexity/stakes of becoming familiar with firearm safety.
The two most common arguments against this are "one-handed" and "speed":
It doesn't take very much practice to learn to load a round using the rear sight blades against your belt, and I can draw a gun and rack the slide in 1 second after ~2 days practice.
It takes a very deliberate motion and a decent amount of grip strength to rack the slide of a semi-automatic pistol chambered in a reasonable self defense caliber. The return spring on a .22lr can probably be overcome by a small child, but then again: nobody keeps a .22lr for self defense! This grip strength requirement frequently exceeds the capability of a grown adult women to use non-revolvers for self defense, the toddler problem described in this article simply becomes a non-issue.
How about instead of acting like "guns" are the problem we recognize it is a cavalier attitude towards gun safety among a population of ignorant/untrained savages that is the problem?
I thought that subject would get your attention. Welcome to my post! This is going to be a constructive and fun conversation, I can just tell! I can feel the love already.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
I don't own a gun myself, not much interest in guns except qualifying on the M16 while in the service and going to the range with some friends every now and again. I do have a lot of gun owners as friends, and they all treat them with the respect and responsibility that they entail. Several hunt, several maintain guns for personal protection. The 2nd Amendment rocks in this regard. I'm very cool with this.
What I don't get (and what my gun-owning friends don't get) is the insistence by some in the pro-gun lobby on assault weapons for an untrained militia (a.k.a hicks in the woods with assault rifles who think they are The Revolution). The government slightly has A-10s and the fucking atom bomb folks. A bunch of rednecks with assault rifles ain't changing the government any time soon, and I am pretty sure I don't want the next iteration of civilization run by rednecks with guns anyway. That ain't a "well-regulated militia". The concept of the citizen soldier with a musket in his closet to protect the nation is dead. The government provides the arms and militia for national defense. Amassing arms to overthrow the government is treason and now is ultimately futile.
For social stability, I do think the government has the responsibility to keep guns out of the hands of fucking idiots. Hell, some of the folks that we give driver's licenses to should not be allowed to drive, because they kill people every fucking day.
I want to allow people to have guns, but I demand that they keep and use them responsibly as they are a very lethal technology. Fucking idiots should not have guns. Breathing and living in the U.S. should not be the minimum qualifications to owning a gun.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
In the United States there are approx 310 million guns owned by civilians. Let's not take into account millions of the weapons owned by military, police, Social Security Agency and other similar organizations.
Coincidentally, there is approximately one gun per one person in the US>
If there are 43 cases that involved, per year, that means there is approximately 0.000000143 probability that the toddler will be involved. Let's do some analysis here... There is an estimated number of more than 1,500 per year who win one million or more dollars per year in the United States. Statistically, 30 toddlers will win one million dollars before one of them is involved in accident.
There is one crucial difference. "Involved" does not mean there is a fatality.
Conclusion is very simple: The quoted number is statistically insignificant. Vaccination complications cause higher mortality than there are accidents involving guns. To finalize, there are many issues to be resolved before this topic is escalated. And put that gun to safe away from kids.
who shoot handguns competitively for sport would disagree. Personally, none of my handguns has ever inflicted any damage on a human body, let alone lethal damage despite having fired thousands of rounds through them. I have no intention of ever inflicting any damage to any human being with any of my guns (indeed, none of my guns has ever harmed any animals either, if you don't count the rats executed in the trap with my pellet gun).
The real purpose of a gun is to fire a bullet toward whatever you aimed it at.
Well, there was that one time hot brass flew into my shirt. And one time I got bit by the slide action when it nipped a bit of skin off my thumb.
Still less likely than 1 in a million.
In a wider context, we must enjoy gun violence or we'd have done something about it by now. Way I see it, you've got one of two options: Ban guns, like Australia did, or just give everyone a gun, require them to carry it at all times, and let the games begin! I know which one I'm rooting for!
Or I guess we could keep doing what we're doing and let evolution take its course. Maybe in a few generations we'll be able to dodge bullets like Neo in The Matrix.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
that law that requires parents to lock up their guns isn't working. Maybe we need another law to help them remember to or something.
There is a difference between pools and guns. Insurance.
Insurance companies collect significant premiums from pools, and for them it is a significant business. I do not think that insurance companies will give up this profit center that easily.
Guns, on the other hand, are not usually insured. There are more than 300 million guns in US. If a premium is, say, $50 per year, can you imagine, then, $15 Billion gun insurance industry?
Guns don't kill people, Americans with guns kill people.
As was said in WW2, when the British fire, the Germans duck, when the Germans fire, the British duck, when the Americans fire everyone ducks.
are left in hot cars? fall into pools? blah blah blah.
There are already laws against this. Many states have laws mandating that you secure guns from children.
Many states have stringent requirements on how you to transport guns in automobiles.
All those laws work most of the time.
And then there are idiots, who still have constitutional rights, and the ability to procreate, who might want to exercise moderation in both regards because they are too stupid to do either safely.
Lose your kids, face negligent homicide/manslaughter charges, and accept that stupid people do stupid things. But most days, 350,000,000 million guns commit no crimes at all in America, thanks to about 150,000,000 responsible citizens.
You shouldn't lose your second amendment right. You should lose your child.
Some people have, as there have been cases where children shoot themselves (or a sibling).
To say we have more regulation on cars than guns tells me you don't own a gun. I can purchase a car as essentially cash-n-carry, if I have the money up front for the car I can drive away with it that day. When you buy the car no one runs a background check, or really asks for ID. Most people don't buy a vehicle with cash so to them it looks like an elaborate process of paperwork and signatures, but that's not for the car, that's for the loan.
People don't need a license to buy a car, but in many states within the USA people need a license to purchase a firearm. Many people don't see a problem with this, if we need a license for one then no one should complain if we need a license for the other.
Well, I see a problem with this. People have the right to travel just as much as they do to defend themselves. Therefore I propose we do away with the license to drive. Many might ask, "how do we know these people are fit to drive?" Easy, every time they drive is effectively a driver's license test. If you get caught screwing up too many times then you lose your right to drive. In other words no different than now except that all those people in the department of licensing that are now pushing papers can be out on the roads enforcing traffic laws.
Some might also ask, "how are people supposed to learn to drive if there is no licensing?" Again that's easy. I remember learning to drive and it started with a trip to the police station to pick up a license to drive manual, it spelled out all the laws I was expected to know to pass the license test. Just keep printing that book and make it known that the book is available. My high school offered a class on driving a car, the local community college has classes on driving a truck, I see no reason why these would go away if the license requirement did. I expect parents to bar their children from driving until they pass the high school class. I expect companies to require all commercial drivers to pass a truck driving class.
What does this have to do with guns? Just re-read what I typed above but do a mental search-n-replace with references to vehicles with a reference to a firearm. We should not require licensing for firearms or vehicles. We should expect adults to act like adults. As adults we should protect our children by properly handling items that may harm them.
Why is gun violence so much worse than other kinds of violence?
Is getting stabbed to death better than being shot to death? Is being beaten to death better than being shot to death? Is blowing your brains out worse than jumping off a tall building or hanging yourself? Because gun control only shifts the mode of death to something else, and makes it impossible for innocent people to defend themselves.
Read your Marshal McLuhan: the medium is the message.
Yes, each of these items can cause injury or death, but how each can be used specifically is different. The media of cinema and television are both moving pictures with sound, but how humans interact with them is completely different (e.g., people remember actors' names in films, but character names on TV; McLuhan has a chapter on both).
Bows and muskets can both kill at a distance, but the nature of warfare changed with the introduction the latter (shorter range (at first), but more penetrating power).
Knives and bats you have to get up close and personal with the target, guns can be fired at a distance. Every try to beat something with a bat for a while (like a fax machine a la Office Space)? Takes some effort. You can stab/slash someone quite a bit and they'll survive (potentially coming after you later). Guns work at a distance with good effect and little effort, with generally little risk to the attacker.
While the instruments may potentially have the end result, the 'media' of the knife and the media of the gun are different things.
Toddlers are dozens of times more likely to drown in their parents (or their parent's friend's) swimming pool than they are to be killed by a gun. Didn't anyone read Freakonomics?
If what we're optimizing for is saving kids' lives, we should ban private pools long before handguns.
with anything else and all of a sudden it's a non-story.
Toddler consumed $chemical and died. Child electocuted themselves after sticking a fork in a wall socket and died. Child found dead floating in pool. Kid found X in house, did Y with it and, yup, died.
Why does the method matter ?
No one seems to give a shit unless a gun is involved. Then, all of a sudden, it's time for another anti-gun crusade event of the week.
Sure, lock the guns up if you have kids. Teach them to respect them when they're old enough. No issues and is common sense for 99% of parents out there.
I wonder if the folks who came up with this story realizes that an alternate fix for children injuring themselves with guns is not to have children. . . . . .
I mean, think of the children :) Less children equates to less child related injuries or death.
I don't post many comments on here, but I just wanted to offer my perspective (Take it or leave it) As a Licenced Gun Owner in Australia, there are a few things I think we have got right (Some things we have got wrong too)
There are a few categories over here for ownership
Cat A: Rimfire Rifles (Not Semi/Full Auto), and Shotguns (Not Semi/Full Auto or Pump) - Magazine Capacity up to 10 rounds
Cat B: Center fire Rifles (Not Semi/Full Auto) - Magazine capacity up to 10 rounds
Cat C: Pump Action Shotguns up to 5 rounds, Semi Auto Rimfire Rifles with Magazine capacity up to 10 Rounds
Cat D: Semi Auto Centre fire Rifles and all other rifles/shutguns with Larger magazine capacity
Cat H: Handguns
1. Safe Storage
This in my opinion is the most important thing. Anyone can break into a Firearms Safe but is required for all owners and is inspected regularly by local police.
Does this stop someone steeling your firearms... not really. It does stop my kids and other people from getting at them.
Ammo and Firearms must be stored separately.
There are further requirements for Cat C,D and H above normal firearms safes.
2. It is very hard to get a Cat C/D licence here. You need to be a primary producer (Run a farm etc.) for Cat C, and there are even more restrictions on Cat D.
As much as I would love to shoot/go hunting with a Semi Auto Rifle, it really isn't a big deal. If you need a semi auto for hunting, then it isn't much of a sport.
3. You can't get a licence if you have had a Criminal Conviction within the last 10 years (Firearms, Drugs, Robbery etc.) or if you have had an Apprehended Violence Order in the last 10 years. So... don't give them to criminals and people that should not be trusted with a firearm. Most Australian Firearms owners are good citizens because they do not wish to loose their licence!
4. Permits to acquire are needed. You need to Apply for a permit to buy a firearm, and specify what type you are buying. The turnaround is around 2 weeks to get it back, but only once you have a permit you can walk in and pick up a firearm. They are about $30 a throw and are valid for 3 months.... This stops people walking in off the street and picking up a firearm, rounds and walking out to use it straight away.
We do have some stupid laws that prohibit gun owners from enjoying their sport.
If you only have a reason to hunt (Vermin control on a property etc) you can't just walk up to a shooting range and shoot, because you must be a member of a range and have that genuine reason too.
No Silencers
Are some of these things a hindrance? Yes, but nothing that stops me enjoying using my rifles, and stopping them getting into the hands of people that will use them for the wrong reasons, or do not know how to use them and could injure themselves or others accidentally.
The questions of personal protection? I guess if most people are not carrying and or using them all the time, then there isn't a problem. I think it will be very hard for America to reverse its stance on that... It would leave the honest people without guns and the not so honest (Read criminals) with them.
I don't have an answer for this, and not sure if the way our laws work would help or hinder this in the short term. Long term it could work.
Don't get me wrong, we have criminals with guns here, but they are much harder to get. Pretty much all guns used in crime are not registered and full automatic firearms (Such as AR15's etc) are going to be hard to find and very expensive.
More info from NSW Police
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/...
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/...
"...In 31 of those 43 cases, a toddler found a gun and shot himself or herself."
There is something terribly wrong when a toddler turns to suicide. Is it bad upbringing? Genetics? Something they saw on TV? There are many suspects but I'll bet it's not those obvious ones.
Nobody seems to be paying attention to the devastating effect of sugar to human bodies, including the brains! Have you ever noticed that almost every brain addled, gun toting killer or suicide seeker is a consumer of sugar? A recent study of people who had suffered an unwanted death indicated that 93.3% of them had consumed sugar or other simple carbohydrates. Of those who enjoyed a wanted death, the percentage was even higher.
Lesson learned: Do not get your children hooked on sweets, even if the label says Gerber. They could turn on you at any moment. Think of the children!
...omphaloskepsis often...
-- JEW gun CONTROL -
The 'constitution' is a FRAUD made up by JEWS. Your 'rights' don't come from bogus fraud jew 'laws' they come from nature. Not 'gawd' not bogus paper, they come from your ability to use force to defend yourself from JEWS and and their bogus 'government'. The jews use the 'children' angle to take your self defense. Their 'laws' are fraud. http://jim.com/treason.htm copy page, ignore rest of site, sites bait with L. Spooner then use other bs to distract from the fact that we are free. All 'law' is based on contract between men. There is no other form of law. Any other claim of 'law' is but cons making up fraud papers to dictate 'laws' to 'tax' and kill you. See washinton's face on the dollar, jew, same as the rest, the bogus 'founders' didn’t 'found' anything, all cons, and dupes just went along. The so-called 'consitution' is a fraud. They made up the bogus 'government' and 'states' to 'tax' dupes to get themselves trillions in weapons. WHO is behind 'gun control' - thezog.info - also search holohoax, and leucter report at archive.org
All the 'school shooting' and 'boston marathon' are jew false flags. ALL of them. The bogus 'govt' and 'media' are Jews, 'anti gun' posts are jew trolls. 90% of all web comments are mass of jews financed by bogus 'tax' and their 'holocaust' fraud. They 'vote' comments up or down. Millions of them on the web, distracting so no one does anything to stop them before their chemtrail virus cull. Recognize jew FACES. See all pages at top - obama also racial jew, 'white' askenazi mother. http://web.archive.org/web/20100825152627/http://jewishfaces.com/banking.html
They kill and blame others for it
http://jewishcrimenetworkdid911.blogspot.com/
They are a scheming tribe, while dupes 'follow' bogus 'govt' bogus jew 'law'. Now you're being SPRAYED. Chemtrail virus kill. Make your own tribes. Copy this so have information links . Time is short. No one is going to 'save' you. Pass on links/sites to others -
I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, hollywood, wall street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them. - Joel Stein LA Times 2009
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves" - Menachem Begin
"We Jews are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." - Maurice Samuel
From the other AC:
"Further the NRA gun safety program "Eddie Eagle" for children which teaches great lessons to children for gun safety in a non sensationalistic manner is blocked by most liberal politicians from being adopted in schools because and solely because, it is from the NRA, the US's premier gun safety organization that teaches responsible gun ownership."
In case you are interested the training centers on telling kids:
1. If you see a gun don't touch it.
2. Go tell an adult.
The United States of Afghanistan.
My hunch is that more people die in America due to gun violence than do in Afghanistan due to all kinds of war.
There were at least 43 cases this year of shootings involving a toddler.
Statistics like this don't mean anything when there is nothing to compare it against. For example, on average, there are 36 deaths a year of children under 5 by poisoning and this does not include the 800,000 children rushed to the hospital every year that survive.
In a study of accidental shootings by children of all ages (not just toddlers), they estimate that "more than two-thirds of these tragedies could be avoided if gun owners stored their guns responsibly and prevented children from accessing them."
As much as I hate the anti-guners I have to agree with this. A little common sense goes a long way. Leaving a loaded weapon or an unlocked cupboard full of cleaning supplies with a child around is just plain irresponsible.
That being said, I still find it a little hard to believe that a 2 or 3 year old could pick up a three pound handgun, figure out the safety, and then the manage the six pound trigger pull while still keeping it pointed in a dangerous direction.
I took a single test at 16, and haven't been tested since.
Keep in mind I have been driving since 12, and also took a crisis driving course just because I'm aware how much can go wrong with driving.
In Australia - guns only with a police check, and an inspection of your firearm safe, 28 day waiting period, guns and ammo in separate locked gun safes, no high powered autos, limited mags, licenses only with a demonstrated genuine need. It works pretty well for us.
But, we were lucky - we didn't have the same number of guns in our society (so a more limited black market) and there isn't the same level of gun obsession. An ocean separates us from any regional armed conflict so smuggling is harder. We also don't have a history/mythology that conflates firearms and freedom. A lot of gun owners weren't happy about the regulations, but at the end of the day the majority just said "yeah, I suppose it makes sense", and got on with their lives.
Yet caps on drain cleaner are more regulated than trigger guards on guns. Why?
Well there are many ways to safely store a gun that do not require trigger locks. You could store it in a safe, for instance.
Be VERY, very careful about storing a gun in a gun safe around kids. (Pick the right one and pay more). There are a lot of badly designed safes out there that kids can crack into. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
To many of us outside the US, the national obsession with firearms in that country looks like a bizarre mass psychosis. By any measure, the deadly proliferation of guns in that country is killing far more people than in any country on the planet.
Once upon a time I wondered if there could be a way to make people understand that it's a thing you need to let go of, but increasingly these days it's a case of sit back, grab some popcorn and watch the nation of gun nuts all kill each other.
I'm just an ignorant european, so I don't understand much of the US gun madness. But boy am I glad to live in a country (Spain) where guns are highly regulated. Yes, the world is full of dangers, that's exactly why I don't need one more thing to worry about when I go out with my kid or when he goes to school.
Clearly, the amount of toddler shootings would hit 0 if all toddlers had been issued with a gun at birth.
Enough other countries have gun control and have less gun crime than you do spree killings and toddlers shooting people. Wake up and smell your bullshit if you believe that everyone should have the right to own a gun then you're as guilty as the losers who go to school and start shooting people indiscriminately!
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
It's tragic that people are injured with firearms, and mainly from not handling or storing them correctly, but far more children drown in pools than are injured with firearms but I never seem to hear all the cries of outrage against these deadly things being right outside our homes. As a matter of fact, a pool is actually a requirement for many people purchasing a home. When is the government going to step in and make people fill these deadly things in? There's a link to a story from 2013 below if you don't believe how horrible these things are. And why do people have them? Not for self defense, just for PLEASURE!!
http://www.abc15.com/news/national/390-kids-drown-in-us-pools-each-year-reports-find
Hit piece on guns. Credibility in question
This will probably get downvoted all to hell and probably sound really cruel. I am a father of 3 myself. But this is Darwin's Law clearly at work....
It's an evolution story: survival of the fittest. Eventually morons leaving their loaded firearms lying around and their progeny will die out.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
Keep this SJW "guns are evil" bullshit off of Slashdot. I don't come here to read this fucking crap!
We get enough gun-grab propaganda from the likes of CNN and NPR. We don't need you using these forums to do more of the same.
How many kids accidently put parked cars in gear which results in some kind of accident? That doens't pop up in the mainstream media very much either; but it happens a heck of a lot more than the situation you described.
Consider that in that same week an average of 948 fires were accidentally set by children playing with fire (mostly lighters and matches) resulting in at least 1 death, 16 injuries and $4-5 million in property damage.
In that same week an average of 50 children (mostly toddlers) will be backed over by a car.
In that same week 94 children will end up in an emergency room due to an accident in a pool or spa. About 7-8 will die. Most of them will be pre-schoolers.
In that same week over 5000 people will call poison control because of a child accidentally ingesting medication, and at least 1000 children under the age of 5 will land in the emergency room. Most weeks one will die.
In that same week over 200 children will accidentally inject household cleaners. Of those about 12 the poisoning is life-threatening or results in a long-term disability.
In that same week about 30 children will die as the result of neglect or abuse. In most case the parents will be directly at fault.
In that same week about 10 children will be murdered, 6 of them by one of their parents.
None of this detracts from the tragedy of accidental shootings, of course, or exonerates gun owners who do fail to properly secure their weapons. But the relative rarity of accidental shootings compared to other accidental injuries would seem to suggest that the majority of the 300+ million guns in the country /are/ properly secured.
I understand the concern, and it's horrible when any child dies, but this isn't even in the top 5 causes of accident or top 10 causes injury death for this age group. https://www.homeminders.com/Ar... http://www.cdc.gov/injury/imag...
Lying about the subject in the headline is one easy way to make me not trust the article. There are 52 weeks in the year, not 47 as you indicated as the number of shootings in a year. I don't give a Rats Ass if it was the gun of the person who was shot, they should still be tried under the laws regarding keeping guns away from children and tossed in jail. Utter stupidity, especially if you look at how many infants/toddlers die in traffic accidents each year... BAN CARS! Especially cop cars... they admit that they are the most distracted drivers on the road! I think I'll wrap myself in printed out gun laws and wear it as a bullet resistant vest... note, I don't plan on that working any better than the laws!
Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
Is there a killing machine so large that it should not be allowed in the hands of Joe Average? Gun nuts always argue from the standpoint that there is no line despite knowing there is one. So pools kill people. Are they designed specifically to efficiently kill people? How about cars? A kid a week shot because Freedum.
Why is the even on slashdot?
This is technology news?
"WE NEED TO ARM THEM!!!"
alive to the universe, dead to the world
For some perspective here, how about some links to how many people working for Gun-ban organizations have shot themselves or others accidentily. Maybe we should ban gun-ban organizations? 8-)
Or to be a bit more serious, how many policmen, soldiers or politicians?
I'm sorry, but I don't see this as particularly tragic.
Survival of the fittest, if you aren't smart enough, or if your parents aren't smart enough, to secure the guns to prevent you the toddler from 'playing' with them, then well, those genes just aren't fit enough to survive and need to be culled from society.
how is this tech news? /. dies a just a little bit more sadly
There's 52 weeks in a year not 43. So the article is blown up to look worse.
In no Math universe is 43 out of 350,000,000 frequent.
that when a law is violated by more than 3 or 4 million people, the law is the thing that is bad rather than those who violate it - and that any attempt to enforce the law is an act of evil/insanity that any "reasonable" person will reject and even actively oppose. The number was from their 1986 amnesty law push, which has now become 11million+ in the current push for a new amnesty, which will be followed by a push for 60 or 70 million 30 years hence...
There are 300Million+ guns in the US in the hands of something like 100Million people (no actual numbers are knowable given the lack of a gun registration database, and the impossibility of ever creating an accurate one). If you create a gun registration requirement, tens of millions of Americans will not register every gun they have - therefore by progressive rules the law itself would be bad and progressives would be crazy to want to enforce it. Add to this the "problems" (from a "progressive"/leftist POV) of unlicensed gunsmiths, a Constitution that explicitly guarantees a right to keep and bear arms, and the rise of 3D printing (including with metal sintering) and the era of "Gun Control" is as over as the era of the horse-and-buggy; it's a quaint idea, but made entirely impractical by both the technology that has arisen and the political norms.
Of course you fail to mention that 'government' is a FRAUD made up by JEWS. The 'weapons' are not for the rest of us, only for your jew tribe.
See washington's face on the dollar, jew, bogus 'founders' didn’t 'found' anything, all jew cons, and dupes just went along. The so-called 'constitution' is a fraud. They made up the bogus 'government' and 'states' to 'tax' dupes to get themselves trillions in weapons. http://jim.com/treason.htm copy page, ignore rest of site, sites bait with L. Spooner then use other bs to distract from the fact that we are free. All 'law' is based on contract between men. There is no other law. Any other claim of 'law' is but cons making up fraud papers to dictate 'laws' to 'tax' and kill you. It is a fact you are free. Real life is natural anarchism and tribes, not bogus 'government' and 'tax' so jew murderers get trillions in weapons. You paid for jew weapons. Where are your drones. The jews have trillions in weapons, and dictate to you what weapons you can or can't have and you let them. Now they have a Chemtrail virus for you.
The jews are a RACE, most 'whites' in fraud 'government', liar 'media' liar 'scientists' vaccine pushing 'dokters' fraud 'lawyers' 'judges' are not nordic whites they are 'white' skin ashkenazi JEW race. Millions of jew trolls on the web financed by their bogus 'govt' and 'holocaust' fraud,mixing bullshit 'militia belligerent government' then next telling you 'you don't need weapons because govt has them'. Jew bs. They want you defenseless, and you already are, you're being sprayed by chemtrails, nano chips and soon a virus that affect other races, but not jews. Mass cull.
Recognize jew FACES - thezog.info - see all pages at right, also top of main page 'required reading' page, bottom half of list copy articles from vnn. don't waste time at vnn, also run by them just see pages, copy pages for backup. More faces -
http://web.archive.org/web/20100825152627/http://jewishfaces.com/banking.html -see all pages at top
holo fraud
leuchter report at archive.org
http://jewishcrimenetworkdid911.blogspot.com/
holodomorinfo.com - just see pages don't waste time on videos, most sites even 'jew truther' sites run by them so you sit 'reading' or 'follow' and don't do anything yourself to stop them. Stop 'following'. Make your own tribe. No one is going to save you. Copy this to re read, postal mail links to others, put on notes and hand out -
The 'constitution' is a proven FRAUD made up by JEWS to 'tax' dupes and get themselves trillions in weapons which they now have. My 'jew weapons fake laws' post above shows the facts. 95% of the comments and 'votes' on the web are JEW trolls, paying themselves from bogus 'government' and 'tax' and their 'holocaust' fraud and a hundred other schemes. Nearly all these posts are jew trolls, and computer gen fake posts. Wake up dupes.
who's behind gun control - thezog.info
see 'jew weapons fake laws' post above for more.
I liken gun owners to dog owners...
Most dog owners pick up after their dogs. There is a minority that does not. However because there are an awful lot of dog owners, the urban park next to my house is basically an open toilet.
Whenever the topic is brought up amongst dog owners they will wail about how responsible most dog owners are, and how it is only a minority that are setting a bad example. That doesn't change the fact that the urban park next to my house is basically in open toilet.