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Phil Schiller Says the MacBook Pro Doesn't Need an SD Card Slot (theverge.com)
Apple's new MacBook Pro models have upset many people for many different reasons. Some are unhappy with the inability to get more than 16GB of RAM, some are upset with the high-price, some are unhappy about the missing physical Escape and function keys, and many are unhappy because Apple didn't put an SD card slot in the MacBook Pro. But Apple has an explanation. From a report on The Verge: Speaking to The Independent (paywalled), Apple exec Phil Schiller said the company had dropped the SD card slot as it was "cumbersome" and because wireless transfer technology for cameras is "proving very useful" as an alternative. Schiller said, "Because of a couple of things. One, it's a bit of a cumbersome slot. You've got this thing sticking halfway out. Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers, and then you can use CompactFlash as well as SD. So we could never really resolve this -- we picked SD because more consumer cameras have SD but you can only pick one. So, that was a bit of a trade-off. And then more and more cameras are starting to build wireless transfer into the camera. That's proving very useful. So we think there's a path forward where you can use a physical adaptor if you want, or do wireless transfer."
Just take the er off his last name and you've pretty much summed the prick up perfectly.
Apple's idea of value is hilariously distorted. Let's charge more than everyone else and deliver less.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
http://www.apple.com/shop/prod...
$49.95
Here is a thought to all you people complaining about Apple's decision making on their products ... DON'T BUY IT.
The only way to get Apple to listen, is to vote with your dollars. If you buy their products, you prove them right.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
...would like to disagree with Schiller in the strongest possible terms: http://www.theverge.com/2016/1... "A company that built up its entire product line on the adulation and money of professional photographers is now turning its back on them and blowing up the best bridge between the tools of their trade: camera and laptop. Without an SD card slot in the computer, weâ(TM)re left having to tote an adapter everywhere ($50 when bought from Apple), or buying a USB-C cable for our cameras ($30), or relying on entirely unreliable wireless transfer apps. Maybe thatâ(TM)s fine on the MacBook, but itâ(TM)s not okay on the MacBook Pro."
Let's be honest. The last few changes from the Apple design team have afforded little or no explanation behind them, and they certainly were not done based on consumer input.
Provide all the weak-ass explanations you want Phil. We know the real answer is Fuck You, that's why.
The disgusting nature behind this behavior from vendors is the Fuck You mentality is becoming rather addictive.
Consumers, if you want design change that even hints towards what you may want or need, vote with your wallet, because all other channels have been effectively silenced.
I don't understand the criticism in this case. Who uses SD cards? Photographers? Where is the use case that they are lugging around a DSLR, lenses, lights, tripods, and a laptop but are really put out by the SD reader?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
But that's the only way we can make the phone so thin that you need an inch-thick cover to keep it from crumbling like tinfoil!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
But it will be the styliest ever.
Yes, styliest. That's a word. And I've been using it for much longer than it has been cool!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Professional cameras are expensive. Even amateur photographers will have many thousands, even tens of thousands tied up in their equipment. These people are not going to buy one of your new "pro" laptops Apple, because you've taken away the ability to either plug the (camera end) proprietary USB cable into it or the the SD card. Your solution, which is to hope that we all upgrade our camera bodies to something more convenient to you, or buy a dongle from you so we can use our cables is not going to cut it. You also killed your Aperture application after we all spent hundreds of dollars on it, and your solution to that is to use your crappy consumer-friendly Photos app.
Clearly you don't want our business anymore. I suspect Microsoft will be more than happy to take our money.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Because if you put two card readers on a laptop that would be crossing the streams open a vortex? Seriously the amount of bullshit these 'journalists' accept from company mouth pieces is absurd.
Or, more likely, Apple just couldn't figure out how to get a SD reader into the stylishly small housing for the MacbookPro. Style over function - welcome to Apple's world.
In the near future, any Apple user will be easily identified by the bag of expensive dongles he/she would have to carry to maintain functionality. Wireless?! Gimme a break, anyone that shoots photos in volume with a DSLR (I routinely get over 1000 shots from a single live music venue shoot, low/variable light and moving subjects makes for a huge number of throwaway shots ) knows that wireless, even relatively current 802.11ac (which nearly no cameras have) can't keep up with a high volume shooting situation for even just still JPGs, let alone RAW files or video. The physically connected card has nearly an order of magnitude advantage in throughput. They are basically ceding the professional market to Linux/Windows machines.
That's the smell of iRome burning.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
The problem is that every professional case is a niche case, and every niche is angry that Apple's not directly catering to their needs and instead offering a platform that requires they buy a couple dongles (which are a pain, no argument) over having one port they'll use and three more they won't.
"No SD slot? Who cares! But I need HDMI-out/firewire/ethernet/RS-232/etc. to do my job! Clearly Apple doesn't care about their professional users!
how about removing the mac os hardware lock in?
or do you want to remove the part of being able to run non store apps? Fine do that and steam will removed from apple systems.
Reality Distortion Field in full effect, but you're no Steve Jobs, fool.
Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
The problem is the guy that knew what the world wanted died and as a result the rest of the monkeys were left in charge.
"As they are becoming so important on all our devices, Apple is changing our name to Dongle(TM)." - unknown Apple spokesman on the internet.
Actually, here, if a camera has a USB cable, why not just have a micro-USB to Type C cable, so that one can directly connect the camera to the MacBook Pro and move the photos?
First off, the professional grade photo cameras which use Compact Flash/CFast or QXD aren't going to be a huge portion of the market. In fact, I doubt that that most people know of their existence. Journalists often send the Jpegs from their cameras to their phones (using WI-Fi adaptors in their camera SD slots) so it's not like Apple's doing them any favours.
SD is fine and great for large transfers so you don't have to congest your WiFi. This explanation that there are a lot of options 'creating confusion' is a non-explanation. Basically they cheaped out.
While I do like the idea of being able to power the laptop from any port, I think an intermediate step was needed. When wireless charging at a distance is here is the time to get rid of MagSafe not before. Parents who have kids running around absolutely love it!
With respect to the RAM, I see both sides of it. They wanted to get overdue machines out the door and with the processor chosen, they got limited to 16 Gigs however since the machines are marked 'Pro' and not consumer, I was expecting one with expandable memory slots. 'Cause that's what pros do. Gluing everything down and soldering the RAM simplifies the engineering no end and makes your machine slimmer but it also makes the machine a disposable one piece unit that is neither reparable or expandable.
As for the price -- I'll be giving it a big pass and hoping they bring back the Mac tower.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
I do a lot of photography, my current cameras are mostly not wireless and do use SD cards.
But I hardly ever used the internal SD reader on my laptop, because (a) it is slower than a really good SD reader, and (b) there's only one slot.
Not to mention (c), a camera I sometimes use uses CF cards...
People who still need to read cards are fine using external readers because they are faster and can handle more cards. Almost all consumers have devices (really phones) that are transmitting photos over the network anyway.
The MacBook Pro has been said by some to not be aimed at photographic professionals, but honestly everything about it is really nice for photography. The screen is better (wider color gamut), the battery life is great, it's even useful being more portable than the last models... I had been thinking about switching to a 13" for travel as the 15" is kind of heavy, but the new one is light enough it should travel well.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm a guy that is full in the Apple ecosystem and I make money programming for apple devices. But the latest macbook pros are NOT pro.
Wireless from the camera? Is this guy that much of a dipshit? Go ahead and see how fast you can transfer these 36 Megapixel RAW images from my D810 camera. Yes I use the XDHC slot and I dont want to wait a week for these to transfer over wifi. slapping the card in the macbook was super fast and worked great.
Macbook pros are not for pros anymore. It sounds like they really want to eliminate any professional use of their products by removing features that pro photographers use heavily.
It is pretty sad when the last version of the product is significantly better than the latest version.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It seems that Apple wishes, in the end, to sell people what will ultimately amount to slabs of metal and glass. I can see them removing just about every port from their hardware that they can. The Macs will eventually ship with only 1 USB port, with Apple telling customers to just get adapters, etc. Why, because fuck you we're in the dongle and add-on business now, that's why. Oh, and don't go buying that cheap shit off Amazon, because it will only break your machine, conveniently.
The iPhone? Oh, I'm calling this one right now. In the next few years, the iPhone will ship with no ports or physical ways into it, whatsoever:
The "New" iPhone will be 100% wireless, and serviceable only by Apple. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Thinking of switching? Good luck with that, all your apps, music, movies, books, and shit you bought from us are tied to our services. You don't own it, remember? Now, how would you like to pay for your new phone, charge pad, Airpods, and extended warranty?
Ah, good choice, sir. Yes, we do offer financing. Why pay for it now when we can fleece you for 15% more over 2 years ...
Why not leave an apple logo tattoo on their forehead?
My Dell laptop accepts an SD card and it fits almost completely flush, maybe 1-2mm at most sticking out. I even keep a 256GB SD card for temporary storage in it without worrying it will catch on my case.
There are two major SD card form factors, three if you include compact flash. There are two major USB connectors for computers (USB and USB-C, not including two the two micro-usb form factors or the large square 'device' connectors). There are *five* video form factors, four of which are still current (DVI, HDMI, DP, Mini-DP).
So he has a point. However, the new macbook-pro goes too far in removing ports. Standard USB ports are still *extremely* useful and for a laptop having a bunch of them is also extremely useful. They removed the separate power port, which basically means there is only one USB-C port available for peripherals.
To say it is stupid is not being critical enough.
-Matt
Then they wont be purchasing the new the 2016 Macbook Pro that cost $500 more than the previous generation for only a 7% gain in performance.
Because Compact Flash to SD card adaptors don't exist.
Professional cameras are expensive.
Yes they are, and as a result...
These people are not going to buy one of your new "pro" laptops Apple, because you've taken away the ability to either plug the (camera end) proprietary USB cable into it or the the SD card. ...as a result this is not what most professional camera users do. That's because they are using cameras with multiple SD slots, and capture a lot of data - so they don't use a slower internal SD reader that limits them to one card at a time when they can use a faster external reader with more slots to finish transferring images faster.
The only reason the professional camera users ever attach to a laptop via cable is for tethering use in the studio, and then all they will need to carry on is a USB adaptor cable...
Your solution, which is to hope that we all upgrade our camera bodies to something more convenient to youM
Apple's solution is either an adaptor or getting a USB-C to whatever flavor of USB your camera supports cable, or as I said an adaptor - don't be a dramatic idiot.
You also killed your Aperture application after we all spent hundreds of dollars on it
It was "hundreds of dollars" maybe five years ago? It was $70 for a long time before Apple stopped selling Aperture... which by the way still works fine. I agree that Photos is not a good replacement but it's not like there are not a lot of other photo management choices also (though to be sure, I preferred Aperture to anything around now so I am sad to see it no longer supported).
Clearly you don't want our business anymore.
Right because you are going to drag around a Surface Desktop unit... The new MacBook Pros have better screens for photo editing than the Surface Book (the only surface model with an SD card reader), and by the way the Surface Book is using the same GPU as my late 2013 MacBook Pro that I am upgrading from.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The last Mac I bought was my 2011 MBP. The last Mac I bought for our company was a 2014 mac mini. I have no plans for purchasing any more Apple hardware because their entire lineup has become a sick joke. Their entire desktop lineup is decrepit and laughable, and they seem focused on adding gimmicks to their laptops designed to increase sales of accessories instead of useful features.
This is what happens when a company that was led by engineers becomes led by penny pushing MBAs. Jobs has been dead only a couple years and Apple has already jumped the shark.
Never used it. It sounds a lot more complicated for the average user to setup that wireless transfer than to just stick the SD card in the computer.
Well, I guess those "Pro" users Apple is targeting will be using a USB-C to A adapter as well as a USB-A to SD adapter. This must be courage.
That is a really weird excuse.
Sure, you can design an SD card slot so that it sticks out a bit. But many laptops have a push to eject so it sticks out a couple of mm at most.
And is a separate reader really less cumbersome?
But I can't work out what their real reason might be. The cost of a slot is tiny. Even third party readers aren't expensive. Adding the slot to the existing hardware must be a trivial cost.
Okay, technically my employer purchased the one I'm typing this on now - a 2015 MacBook Pro, which was purchased this past spring specifically because of the (accurate) rumors stating the next version would be losing most of the ports and slots.
I really like this thing. I use the SD slot once or twice a month. I use the Thunderbolt/Displayport ports and the HDMI ports to drive external monitors. I like the MagSafe connector. This machine is well built, and plenty fast. Plus all my Unix stuff runs on it too.
Why am I bothering to say all this? Well... there's a darn good chance my next laptop purchase. a few years from now, won't be a Mac. I'll need to do a fair bit of testing, of course, but I will be looking at how much of a hassle going back to a Linux laptop will be. It's ironic, because I originally moved to Mac from Linux to get away from the hassle. And, all in all, I'd really prefer to stick with OS X... er, macOS, as a platform. But Apple seems hellbent on making their laptops less useful for those of us who actually do need a laptop for work. Sure, having to use a VM to run Photoshop a few times a year will be a hassle... but carrying around a dozen dongles is even more of a hassle - and it's harder to misplace a VM.
#DeleteChrome
I really dont care cause I wont be buying a MB"P", but I do use my SD card slot, ya know at work, for the camera we use in the lab ... the camera takes a special cable that you can never freaking find.
BUT my point is " You've got this thing sticking halfway out." no I dont with a sd card inserted its dead flush with the side of my laptop, to eject it you actually have to push it inside the laptop a bit with a fingernail to get the spring to release. You may have reasons for removing it, but your bad design with things sticking half way out is really a poor excuse
and external dongles suck way worse
You need to complain too. If a company does something that consumers don't like, and consumers don't buy it but offer radio silence as to what is wrong, it is hard for the company to correct the issue since they may not correctly identify it. The right answer when a company does something you don't like is to stop buying their products and let them know why. It won't always lead to a fix, but it is the strategy that will most likely lead to a fix.
I don't understand the criticism in this case. Who uses SD cards? Photographers? Where is the use case that they are lugging around a DSLR, lenses, lights, tripods, and a laptop but are really put out by the SD reader?
I use MicroSD cards... They are great for holding movies when traveling and for backing up your photos. But I'm not a Mac fan, so I don't care either way. I'm perfectly happy with my XPS 13.
I see they didn't have the courage to remove the headphone jacks on the MacBooks yet. Interesting.
Apple says new Macbook Pro from 2017 will NOT have a screen; Apple suggests that by not having a screen, it will be a huge space saving and people can carry it better.
Apple doesn't support wireless MTP in Photos or image capture on mac or iPhone. You can get clients for the phone, but not to feed into Photos on the Mac. Grr!
I have hardware that boots from SD cards so being able to write an image with a dd command is very useful. I also have a phone with sd card slots. It may not be a deal breaker but it is another irritation that I wouldn't have to deal with if I chose my own hardware and ran linux. Then you have the lack of a traditional USB port. For me at least, those irritations are beginning to add up.
That's because that's what makes a laptop a professional model: a bunch of parts that you may or may not ever use.
Any real business laptop these days has an HDMI or DisplayPort output, and probably even a VGA output, because conference room monitors use those connectors. You can't go to some customer site, where you don't know exactly what their conference room has (and they probably don't either, off the tops of their heads), and then bitch at them for not having some brand-new USB-c connection or not having an adapter for your laptop.
Real business laptops have Ethernet jacks, because many businesses (and governments especially) require them for security purposes. How exactly do you think you'd ever use a MacBook with no Ethernet on a secure government network? You wouldn't; those networks are NOT wireless.
A "professional" laptop is not going to require you to carry around a bunch of adapters for all the circumstances you might find yourself in and not anticipate beforehand. This is why *real* pro laptops have all these ports, even if it does make them slightly bigger and heavier. For cheap-ass consumer-grade computers, leaving out stuff that's not used as much may be just fine, but that doesn't work for serious business and professional users.
He's totally right, having a specific memory card slot in a computer really isn't that useful these days. Most folks don't ever use them; for those of us who do, it's a mixed bag as to if the card is the right type, and it's not a day-to-day event. If it is day-to-day, buy an adapter. I've used mine only a half dozen times to write Raspberry Pi images, which I easily could have done using another machine and a USB card reader. If having an SD card reader is a deal-breaker, go back to the 90s and get the last Mac with a floppy while you're at it.
All that said, they have removed other useful ports and that is annoying. These are/were ports that many people actually used.
Are they cheaper or faster than USB sticks or something?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I can appreciate that Apple wants to create elegant and beautiful technology. They need to appeal to their customer's hearts as well as their practical needs.
But when Apple evaluates how elegant and minimalist their products are, they need to connect all of the NECESSARY dongles first, and then look at the total solution they have created. Because a Mac with a bunch of dongles hanging off it is a hell of a lot less elegant and minimalist than one with actually useful ports built into the damn machine.
Where is the use case that they are lugging around a DSLR, lenses, lights, tripods, and a laptop but are really put out by the SD reader?
Its not about the 'lugging it around'; its not even about the cost; it's about the sheer blind arrogance and idiocy of making a tool less useful. The 'pro' series stuff is supposed to be a TOOL for PROFESSIONALS.
Tools are supposed to be functional. When they are less functional for absolutely no good reason, people who use them get pissed.
Nobody thought that macbook pro was too big, nobody wanted it thinner. Nobody wanted them to remove the sd card.
Meanwhile apple comes out with this nonsense...
"and because wireless transfer technology for cameras is "proving very useful" as an alternative"
You know how a photographer works? They fill a card, pull it out, and put in the next one and keep going. They don't sit around for 2 hours doing an 8 or 16GB wireless transfer.
" Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers,"
And it used to be built in.
"and then you can use CompactFlash as well as SD"
Great idea Apple. Add a CF slot. That would be an actual feature.
"we picked SD because more consumer cameras have SD but you can only pick one"
Bullshit. You can pick more than one. You've got all that space from taking the DVD out, and the expresscard slot out, and the SSD is a fraction of the size of the old hard drive... so room isn't a problem. Add the 2nd most popular slot, and watch people actually get excited about the new laptop instead.
Better still make it a modular part, so if it breaks, it's easy to replace. That would be how you design a professional tool.
Oh... you took all that space and made it thinner instead... nobody wanted it thinner.
Imagine you used a heavy duty pickup truck for work.
Then the next years model is announced its new truck, basically a Porsche 911 with a trailer hitch.. And the maker told you, well... this is better because people need to carry different cargo... and this way you can buy exactly the trailer you need!! Oh and with the availability of courier services (aka 'wireless transfer') a lot of people don't even need a truck bed at all... they just make a phone call and the cargo shows up at the destination!!
And just look at this new 'truck' its smaller, and lighter, and handles great. Look how sleek it is. (Well.. until you actually hook up a trailer (aka usb dongle) to it and then its unwieldy as shit... but we didn't REALLY want you to use a trailer with it... did we mention you can get a courier to move stuff for you!!)
Oh, and it's virtually un-serviceable except at specialized dealers; so keep it in the city and maybe the highway -- don't take this truck onto farm roads and mountain roads. Its just not built for that. If you need something from a farm or mountain road... it has this great built in phone you can use to call real professional with actual tools to do it for you!
That's about apple's recent approach to dealing with 'professionals' who need 'tools'.
Your phone likely uses microSD, in which case you need an adapter anyway. I can't speak to the ebook reader or console game, since my Kindle connects via USB and my only consoles are too old to communicate with anything.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Link the product registration of the new MacBook Pros so that each one can be associated with one iPhone/iPad (that uses Lightning)/iPad Pro serial number, and/or one MacBook Pro model serial number that has an SD Card slot. If you register your new MacBook Pro with a linked Lightning-using iDevice, you get the USB-C to Lightning dongle at no charge. If you register your new MacBook Pro with an older MacBook with an SD Card slot's serial number, you get a USB-C to SD Card dongle at no charge. Demonstrates Apple listens, and Apple cares about loyal customers who bought into its ecosystem.
Isn't this more or less (Bluetooth instead of transfer tech for cameras) what they said about the headphone jack that they removed from the phone, but kept on their laptop?
So Apple says fuck you buy a $700-3000 camera body to fix this "problem". How about I just but a Razerblade Stealth instead?
Any other REAL "pro" laptop will do the job. You know laptops with USB, HDMI, .. ports, SD card, more than 16GB RAM, a full keyboard, ...
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
WTF are you talking about? I'm no Apple fan, but Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer, not liver failure. It was rather sudden, which isn't abnormal with pancreatic cancer as it can be extremely aggressive. You must be thinking of someone else.
Jobs' only fault (AFAIK) was in delaying proper medical treatment because he was exploring some BS herbal or "holistic" therapy or something. By the time he gave up on that, it was too late. If he had gone for conventional therapy right away, he might still be alive. There's a fair number of people who die from treatable cancer every year because of "alternative" medicine like this.
To paraphrase Phil's explanation: "we couldn't figure out whether SD or CF cards were better, so we decided to do neither."
And that's despite the fact that essentially every currently available consumer, prosumer and professional camera supports SD cards or some high-capacity variant thereof. As a semi-pro photographer (meaning I get paid to shoot events, but that's not how I earn all of my income), I have not used a CF-only camera for something like 10 years now. Heck even Canon's flagship 1D has supported SD since MkII back in 2004.
One is lead to the speculation that the real reason was to shave a few pennies from manufacturing costs by eliminating SD support.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
"Form follows function" is a principle associated with modernist architecture and industrial design. [ref. Google search] This is a concept Steve Jobs executed with razor like efficiency during his time at the helm of Apple. Sadly, since his departure, Team Apple has only focused on form alone, to their own detriment. This is their decline. This is their fall from grace. This is what defines those with vision and understanding from mere imitators and corporate shills.
...as you were saying Phil.
Don't worry, "macs4all" will be here filling the comment section with rebuttals to everyone's anti-Apple comments and telling us how Apple can do no wrong.
How does a USB dongle with a reader attached to it stick out less than an SD card mounted in the laptop?
Apple removes the SD card slot because photographers don't need it anymore, but thinks professional musicians need the headphone jack to record and mix.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
You forgot the argument about pro-level cameras making 50MB RAW files, and how long this will take to transfer wirelessly when you shoot 1000 pictures in one night.
The solution is simple: you just need to stop using RAW, and set the camera to record in a low-resolution JPEG format; that way, wireless transfer will be pretty quick. It takes a courageous company like Apple to make professional photographers realize they're being silly by using these ultra-high-resolution image formats instead of a more convenient, highly compressed JPEG format in low resolution.
Dear Phil Schiller,
Fuck You!
Everyone everywhere
Seriously. If you look up "Asshole Move" there should be his picture and the his quote about SD slots being cumbersome. Also unmentioned in the summary is the fact that they are also doing away with the hdmi and USB ports also. So useful. Supposedly it only had Thunderbolt/USB-C which nothing supports.
That said, I'm not sure what the deal is with wanting more than 16GB of RAM. I have 16GB of RAM in my desktop and it's really a complete waste (it made sense at the time as RAM was cheap and I didn't want to have to do an upgrade later). No one really needs anything near that really, and not anytime soon either. If you *DO* legitimately need more than 16GB of RAM for your work, you are undoubtedly not using a mackbook anyway.
Today I can buy an SD card that is 1TB. This greatly adds to the effective disk storage of the machine. I don't use it for camera.
That seems to be Apple's new theme song...
When your ethernet disappears... buy a dongle!
Need to connect your iphone... buy a dongle!
Want to read your SD card... buy a dongle!
Want to use headphones on your iphone? buy a dongle!
I'm surprised they don't sell a usb3 dongle that's just an 'esc' key at this point.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
??? They don't exist. Did you mean USB-C to SD?
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
That is nearly accurate, except that *every* professional would appreciate a USB port and a Gigabit Ethernet port. They may not always use them, but they are just essential for a lot of different jobs. On the SD card I half agree: I like it, I use it a lot, but it is getting less common.
Of course the elephant in the room is that both USB port and SD port can be used for (cheap) storage extensions. And Apple absolutely wants to prevent that. So I think that is the real reason: form and money over function.
If you're the kind of person who drops $2k on Mac laptops, your phone probably doesn't actually have a Micro SD connector.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
The good news is, you can get an adapter for SD Cards that plug into the headphone jack.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
One, it's a bit of a cumbersome slot. You've got this thing sticking halfway out.
I have a 2 year old Dell Latitude E5440 with an SD card slot that does not stick out at all. When I insert it, it snaps cleanly in place and flush with the body of the laptop.
I guess Dell has the patent on this type of technology.</sarcasm>
Let's see:
Cheap trail cam: no wifi, and in any case I'm not dragging my laptop into the woods when I can carry a 3 gram microSD back home instead.
Camera #1: Wifi is a PITA to set up.
Camera #2: no Wifi
all cameras: why carry around a USB cable?
RepRap Prusa i3 printer: Uses micro SD. Can be connected via USB but only if place dang close to computer. Screw that.
So, yeah, I want an SD slot. (I do have a bag full of $1US SD-to-USB adapters, which is what I have to use on various existing computers anyway)
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Never underestimate the power of convenience. The slot in your laptop is there as long as you have your laptop with you. An external reader is something you have to dig out of your bag. I'm typically doing other things while Lightroom imports photos anyway, so the difference between a minute and two minutes is mostly irrelevant.
Thus, even though I own a UHS-II reader, I only bother to get it out if I need to import contents off of a CF card (because it does both) or when I need to bulk import an unusually large number of images from multiple cards.
Not really, no. Inside the computer are multiple USB hubs—one that provides service for the keyboard, trackpad, and SD slot, and (at least) one that provides service for the ports on the side. The SD card slot was tied in with the keyboard and trackpad, which are almost certainly not using USB 3 communication.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
That is nearly accurate, except that *every* professional would appreciate a USB port and a Gigabit Ethernet port.
I agree with you on USB-A, Apple probably could have put one or two on there without compromising much. Ethernet's been gone from the Pro models for years now, people have adapted, and it's not coming back (although Grishnakh is right in that there are plenty of networks where it's a requirement).
Of course the elephant in the room is that both USB port and SD port can be used for (cheap) storage extensions. And Apple absolutely wants to prevent that.
Apple sells third-party USB-C-compatible portable hard drives and keys directly, and there are plenty of other manufacturers out there. There's also NAS and a variety of cloud services, not to mention that current storage solutions still work perfectly fine with the (once again, admittedly annoying) dongles. It's not so much an elephant in the room as people might have to adjust a little.
I'm curious why you think Apple would want people to to not have access to cheap storage extensions. Nobody can complain about dongles but then be okay with plugging in portable storage, and I doubt all but the kool-aid chugging-est Apple fans would argue that iCloud is comparable.
Jobs created Keynote for himself - and named it too. He knew about PROFESSIONALS needing to do presentations. Everywhere I see VGA connections still to this day with some having HDMI connections. Nobody is going to have presentation connections for USB-C for a very long long time.
I can't believe he would have made the MacBook so crippled it can't even connect to a projector without a bigger mess! I've seen students present and how the Windows users struggle and the Mac users do not.
I read that the 16GB is the choice of chips they had and Intel's next version will support 32GB. So maybe that isn't Apple's fault... in which case Phil should have said something better than blaming battery life for that decision. 4-Core Intels don't have a decent GPU this time which is why AMD is utilized more and that would raise the price over their previous dependence upon Intel GPUs (except top model.) Again, they are stuck to Intel's offerings... don't they have any input?
They shouldn't have left the Display Market because somebody needs to "innovate" with a eGPU case integrated with a display. Just selling an eGPU would have helped.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I have one of those wireless capable cameras. Nearly worthless feature.
First, you have to connect your laptop/phone to the camera's wireless AP, not the other way around. Goodbye internet while transferring files, and having to fuck around with the wireless settings. Want to transfer files to desktop? Nope.
Second, on the cameras I have experience with (Olympus and Sony), you have to use the manufacturers app to transfer files. Want to simply access the files as a disk? Nope. Want to transfer RAW files? Nope.
The only thing the wireless feature is useful is as a remote shutter trigger and viewing the LCD screen when the phone is on a tripod.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Make it a modular part? That's a great idea. Like, maybe they could make it detachable, and then it would be easy to swap. They could use a standard interconnect for it, maybe with a standards based cable that's really fast, so you don't have to worry about bandwidth.
Modular is good, that way people that don't need it don't have to have their laptop burdened with a useless port.
Not all people that buy Mac Pros are photography professionals. We have a Nikon D3s at home--a pro level camera--and it uses compact flash, so we've NEVER used the SD card slot. My point-and-shoot camera uses a mini-SD card, so I still can't use that SD card slot. Just give me a USB port and an adaptor so I can put WHATEVER thing I want there.
Not all professionals are the same, and not even all professionals of the same type have the same needs. More ports, yes, but more multi-use ports.
I'm not buying Macs of any sort anyhow, but what matters is that a lot of photographers use SD slots frequently and won't be happy not having a built-in slot. Every such change makes a netbook just as useful and a whole lot cheaper.
I'm weird, I'll grant you that - but for work, I have no problem dropping $2k on a tool. For play, I can't justify $600 for a phone. I generally keep it under $200 - currently I'm using a fire-sale Fire Phone that was effectively free because it came with a year of Prime (to which I already subscribe).
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You would be thanking Jobs for 16GB! Probably something along the lines of "at this time we had a choice between waiting another year for Intel or making a hotter, heavier, bigger laptop than the old model and we didn't want to do either because that wouldn't be progress." People would cheer... the 32GB or nothing people would wait instead of trying to find alternatives.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Make it a modular part? That's a great idea. Like, maybe they could make it detachable, and then it would be easy to swap.
I meant modular as in built-in but still a replaceable module. You know, the way the DVD drive is on your desktop, or the harddrive.SO when it breaks its a few screws a plug and you are good to go.
Ports are inherently a little bit fragile due to whatever being stuck in them can act as a lever, so being able to replace the receptacle easily is a nice feature of any professional tool.
That's one of the problems with dongles is that they tend to act as levers on the USB ports. So not having to use them is a real bonus especially on portable devices ... like laptops.
Not all people that buy Mac Pros are photography professionals.
Of course!
We have a Nikon D3s at home--a pro level camera--and it uses compact flash, so we've NEVER used the SD card slot.
First, I'd argue that adding a CF slot to the pro makes MORE sense than removing the SD card slot. Instead of pissing off half the photographers out there, you'd make the other half a lot happier.
Second, so you've already got an adapter then. Which also won't work, because they didn't include a goddamned USB port either. You can either buy a new CF adapter to USBC or you can buy a USB to USBC adapter and chain them together.
Either way, the mac pro didn't get any better for you and you even have to buy another adapter even though you already have one. And it got objectively worse for everyone who uses SD Cards too. Who is this laptop actually better for? It seems nobody. (Hence the griping.)
More ports, yes, but more multi-use ports.
You are like the 3rd person who I've addressed (over multiple /. articles) with this argument. And I agree... I love that the macbook pro is loaded with multi-use USBC ports. That's great. But there's not even a damned regular rectangular USB-A style port on it. You need an adapter. It should have all the ports it does have so that it has all the multiuse flexibility and goodness you like about it. AND it should have the MOST commonly needed regular ports... ethernet, usb-A, hdmi, etc.
It's simply not an either or question. There's room for more than a couple USB-C ports. And if there wasn't, make it bigger. Because pros who need tools weren't asking for 'thinner'.
Anyone who has hired a wedding photographer will probably agree.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
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I've been an Apple customer since 8.6 and the next laptop I buy won't be one Apple makes. I was using Macs to do CS class work in 2001 when I literally had peers say "Macs are kinda gay dude." Apple has lost me as a customer, and I know I'm not alone. If I'm going to spend $2500 or more on a laptop, I want 32GB of RAM and a replaceable battery. Those are bare minimums for a "Pro" laptop.
You know what "pro" uses a MacBook pro now? Literal office professionals who just use them for super slick web surfacing and Microsoft Office type work. That's it. Want to build real software that requires more than a few REST APIs like anything Big Data? Get Lenovo, Dell or HP on the phone because Apple thinks we need battery life more than 32GB of RAM.
They're not, of course, and they're annoyingly small. GB for GB, they're 2-5x as expensive as SD or USB based flash. Plus, they're about a factor of 2-4 behind in maximum capacity. And I have a fuck-ton of them because I own a surface, and it only has a uSD port. I also have several USB adapters for uSD, SD, CF and the like - but they're a pain in the ass to carry if - other than the tablet - I'm taking anything with me.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You are missing the point: it is bad design to make a system where everyone has to carry around a bag of dongles in order to use it. If this were not the case then why, in its hey day, did Apple ship laptops with ethernet, USB and Firewire ports? They could easily have just used nothing but Firewire and sold dongles for everything else. Apple hardware used to be sleek, elegant and functional. Now it is just sleek and elegant and that is not acceptable for a laptop at the prices they want to charge.
Its not about the 'lugging it around'; its not even about the cost; it's about the sheer blind arrogance and idiocy of making a tool less useful. The 'pro' series stuff is supposed to be a TOOL for PROFESSIONALS.
Tools are supposed to be functional. When they are less functional for absolutely no good reason, people who use them get pissed.
Nobody thought that macbook pro was too big, nobody wanted it thinner. Nobody wanted them to remove the sd card.
Meanwhile apple comes out with this nonsense...
Froth all you want, but these will sell very well. Professional does not equal IT professional. My wife, a professional writer and game coder would absolutely love this machine, and we'll probably get one when we upgrade later this year. None of the changes will affect her negatively, only positively.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
At the price Apple charges for their MBP, it should include 1 of each dongle for free.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Because cameras are notoriously SLOW to transfer over USB, despite having no problem reading and writing to the fastest of cards at full speed.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Lots of businesses now disable the use of external storage devices on their machines out of security and data privacy concerns. Besides, requiring a cheap adaptor or using a USB-C specific flash drive is not exactly preventing anyone from using external storage.
Phil Schiller said the company had dropped the SD card slot as it was "cumbersome" and because wireless transfer technology for cameras is "proving very useful" as an alternative.
Note the multiple stupid assumptions.
1) The only use for SD cards is cameras
2) All cameras support wireless
3) You don't have LOTS of big pictures to transfer, (which takes FAR longer over wireless than just popping your SD card out).
Bummer! You need a physical, easy to hit, ESC key for vi / vim.
It kinda makes you wonder how many engineers were consulted about the new design. I'm guessing Steve Jobs would have taken input from them into consideration.
I guess I'll be mapping the backquote key to ESC if I buy a new MacBook Pro.
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
You can pack a lot more of them into a small case.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I can't really see why I'd prefer the newer ones. It's not that they're just poor in comparison to the older systems, they're much worse. No USB ports, no MagSafe cord, the price is $400 more, and while I'd rather have a 4 lb computer instead of a 4.5 lb computer, I just don't care enough to abandon USB ports and the MagSafe adapter. There isn't even a good dongle for attaching a couple of USB 3 drives to the machine, which is bona fide insane.
It seems like my decision is made. What I *don't* understand is why Apple came up with these deliberately crippled machines. They're close to unusable.
Even worse, Apple doesn't even have a good way to attach a couple of USB 3 drives to a Thunderbolt port. What's *wrong* with these people?
Real professionals to the extent that they have a choice, choose tools that work best for them and don't worry about whether or not other professionals, whose needs may be different, deem said tools as worthy of the label "professional".
In other words, I've been hearing some variation of the phrase "Macs aren't suited for business" for decades while I've been happily using a Mac for business most of that time.
I have a relatively new Macbook Pro right now and by the time I get another one, this latest flap over ports will have faded into history as the rest of the world moves to USB-C too.
Froth all you want, but these will sell very well
I expect so. Management types always need a new status symbol while they look at spreadsheets and write emails.
My wife, a professional writer and game coder would absolutely love this machine,
A "writer"? I think that market is served by a 20 year old notebook with wordperfect 5. In fact i know a couple professional writers still on that setup.
And what professional 'game coder' doesn't use a desktop as their primary dev machine? Seriously. A decent keyboard and big screen(s!) is a pre-req for anything serious.
I code, i have a macbook pro laptop, I can use it to code in a pinch, but I'd rather gouge my eyes out than do any serious programming work on it. A few code windows, history/diff/change summary, specs, application window, debug/watch windows, ... I suppose I could plug my laptop into the dual monitors on my desk... but its simpler to just leave them plugged them into a desktop that's always there and has far more storage, ram, and video horsepower.
Seriously, I'll probably buy another mac down the line... but i'll just get an air. If I'm just going to use it to write email and browse the web and need dongles to attach it to anything anyway; then what does the 'pro' give me?
What does your wife need from the new pro that the air doesn't do? Because that's what the new pro is. Hell.. the macbook air is almost redundant... the new pro is pretty much the air with a specs bump and all the ports converted to usbc ... which is exactly what we'd expect from the next macbook air anyway.
The Apple motto, it's been that way for decades. Why expect it to change?
In the past, Apple's changes were usually for Apple-propietary interfaces. Apple's proprietary serial interface. Apple's proprietary keyboard and mouse port ADB. Even Firewire, while not 100% Apple, was not all that widely adopted outside of Apple circles.
If Apple wants to play port-of-the-week for proprietary interfaces then fine, but if they expect everyone that requires a degree of vendor interoperability to follow suit then there's a problem. Some technologies do not change very quickly, or people who buy into a technology will use it for a very long time. Cameras and SD is an example of this, as are cameras that connect to the computer via cable like conventional USB. If a professional photographer is going to go and take school pictures for a couple thousand kids over a few days they need all of the equipment to behave the same way, even if different models of cameras and different models of computers are used. They can't afford to have only camera X work with laptop A, or Camera Y only work with Laptop B, etc. They also are photographers, not the IT department, and downtime attempting to troubleshoot problems with connections and interoperability is costing them money. They're paying staff that isn't being productive. They're possibly adding an extra day to a given shoot without more income from that shoot, so they can't do as many customers in a year.
I get why ports get deprecated-out. Parallel was an easy choice. Serial, well, since we already need a cable anyway and there are USB-via-FTDI-to-anything cables (like USB-FTDI-CiscoRJ45) it's also not too bad. But when you start getting into fairly new connectors or interfaces then it's just annoying.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Actually, my bad, I didn't realize that a Thunderbolt 3 port can operate as a USB C port, so a USB A to USB C adapter is all you need to insert a USB drive. However, on a dual Thunderbolt system, can you get power *and* a USB port on the same Thunderbolt port?
"Phil Schiller Says the MacBook Pro Doesn't Need an SD Card Slot"
Well, Phil Schiller is wrong.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Don't pick on macs4all. Feel sorry for him, stuck with that username.
Professionals use CF cards.
So your argument then is for adding a CF card slot right?
Not removing all the slots and giving you none?
That's kind of my point. Its not like they couldn't make a laptop with CF AND SD, as well as ethernet and hdmi and USB3, AND the 4 USB-C ports AND more than 16GB RAM, and maybe a bit thicker with more battery.
You know... a laptop professionals might be interested in.
Whenever anyone says they want some kind of product "based on consumer input", what springs instantly to mind is the Homermobile.
Instead of designing a product base don what customers think they want, Apple is doing what they always do - thinking ahead, and saying what will customers NEED. What Apple has built will be more useful over the next few years than what you would rather they have built...
Well now. That's certainly one way of conveying "Fuck You, that's why."
Imagine if this mentality were brought to the housing industry. You would live in a home without panes of glass (deemed optional), and doorknobs would be replaced with magnetic locks that require a proprietary RFID card to operate.
Imagine if this mentality were brought to the food industry. Flavors and colors you previously knew and love would randomly be replaced with proprietary spices, and reports of people projectile vomiting would have to wait to be resolved with the next release of iFlavorEnhancer.
They're not, of course, and they're annoyingly small.
Heh, all jokes aside, I'd much prefer to carry a really small case with 20 or 30 Micro SD cards than a larger case with 10 USB drives.
As for price, a 32G Micro SD card is about the same cost as a 32G USB stick on Amazon (around $10). The same goes for many of the 64G Micro SD cards (around $20).
USB drives are easier to insert or remove, I'll certainly agree with that.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I meant modular as in built-in but still a replaceable module. You know, the way the DVD drive is on your desktop, or the harddrive
Not just desktops. I took out the expansion slot DVD drive from my Lenovo and replaced it with additional battery. No idea if the newer models have this, but I very much approved this possibility.
It is what it is.
Imagine if this mentality were brought to the housing industry.
I can in fact easily imagine that - it's this. People are not really clamoring for solar and energy efficiency when considering homes, so it's forward thinking to build homes like that people will enjoy later even though it may not move as many sales now.
You would live in a home without panes of glass (deemed optional),
That is more like shipping a laptop without a keyboard, which Apple did not do... instead Apple shipped a laptop that instead of standard windows included some windows with snap glass so you could shutter them electronically.
doorknobs would be replaced with magnetic locks that require a proprietary RFID card to operate.
More like they would be on a network you could use some electronic system to unlock - people love keycards for work, why not home? It would actually go over well.
Flavors and colors you previously knew and love would randomly be replaced with proprietary spices,
And that is called "high end restaurant" which people flock to... only the process of update and replacement is not random, it's carefully considered. USB-C is simply a more forward thinking port to include than the incredibly old USB port we all know today.
Apple's laptop sales figures so for for the update confirm that people are flocking to what Apple is server, no matter how much a bunch of aged bitter programmers whine like three year olds.
You've really made a hash of that argument!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The problem is that every professional case is a niche case, and every niche is angry that Apple's not directly catering to their needs...
Maybe if we could buy a MacOS laptop from someone besides Apple we wouldn't be so insistent they make a machine that fits what we need.
The same excuse for removing the headphone jack, which will be the next sacrifice on the next Macbook Pro revision - mark my words.
Apple fans will do whatever they want, but the roadmap for the company is getting all common universal standards, making a proprietary version that works better with Apple products, and limiting all their hardware to those. TV without competing channels, proprietary wireless technology (it's already done for audio), and the list keeps growing.
I have no doubts that they'd design their own cameras, audio recorders, file formats, storage devices, and all sorts of electronics to lock people further in.
Depending on Apple's next target, it could be limiting AirPort Express to Apple devices, locking up their implementation of USB Type-C to Apple devices, or a bunch of other things... they have all the cards, they play how they want.
The inconvenient and outdated excuse will always work because universal standards always have to sacrifice something in order to work across multiple brands being platform agnostic. The only reason why the new wireless audio standard from Apple can connect so easily to Apple products is just that: because it can only connect to Apple devices. Bluetooth has to go through pairing process because it needs to identify the platform it's connecting to.
I personally want no part in that shit. We've been there. Back a few decades ago, every cellphone had it's own proprietary connector. Every accessory was expensive, worked like crap, and could not talk to other brands. It was far more difficult to find a charger and a pair of headphones that would work with your particular brand of phone. Transfering files from your cellphone to a computer was a hellish process... you needed to install proprietary drivers and software, the whole thing worked like crap, and you never knew how much you could do. Kinda similar to iTunes or iCloud on Windows.
Yes, there are advantages to that type of approach, but there's a reason why universal standards exists, and people will soon be re-learning once again the problems of all these proprietary crap, and removal of choice from costumers to lock them further in a walled garden of sorts.
Actually, here, if a camera has a USB cable, why not just have a micro-USB to Type C cable, so that one can directly connect the camera to the MacBook Pro and move the photos?
There are a couple problems with this idea.
- If you have an L-bracket on your camera (like I do) for mounting it on a tripod, you probably don't have free access to the USB transfer port on the camera. This means you'd have to disconnect the L-bracket every time you want to transfer images from the camera to the computer.
- If you are an events shooter, you almost certainly fill multiple SD Cards (or CF Cards, depending on the camera) with images during one shoot. You probably don't have the luxury of stopping multiple times during the event and having a 10-15 minute block of downtime to offload the images from the camera. Pro photographers are working off a shot list, and for many events that shot list is all about timing.
#DeleteChrome
Nothing like paying a ton of money for the privilege of having to purchase an additional peripheral just to do something as basic as transfer something from an SSD card...
"Phil Schiller Says the MacBook Pro Doesn't Need an SD Card Slot"
A better way to say this:
SD Card users don't need a MacBook Pro
For the L-bracket, is there a compelling reason for a camera to have its USB port right where the bracket is? Can't it be on the back, or on the sides?
The second scenario that you mentioned would require that one either has something like a 256GB card, or have a permanent connection to the MBP. I'm assuming that the shooter would want to avoid swapping cards every few minutes, regardless of the card being inside the camera or connected via a port
>Of course the elephant in the room is that both USB port and SD port can be used for (cheap) storage extensions. And Apple absolutely wants to prevent that. So I think that is the real reason: form and money over function.
I think the real elephant in the room is Apple does not want to produce machines that meet the needs/wants of all their market segments (that goes for laptops and desktops), but they also don't want to license out the operating system so others can fulfill those needs. All they are doing is leaving money on the table and hurting their platform adoption.
Transfering RAWs wirelessly isn't a problem from a bandwidth standpoint. However, to work well the uplink has to be asynchronous, concurrent with normal camera operation, and not interfere with camera operation if no wifi connection is available.
Unfortunately, no current camera or wireless interface can actually do that seemlessly. The closest I've seen is actually a 10-year-old wifi grip from Canon which could transfer asynchronously via FTP whenever it was able to get a connection. I used it extensively. But (for example), all of Canon's Wifi offerings since then have been unusable crap.
Unfortunately, most modern camera wifi setups are complete crap, even ones that are camera-independent. They usually connect only through manufacturer servers, require a dedicated app, usually can't operate concurrent with normal camera operation, and/or will glitch/stall the camera if they can't get a good wifi connection.
Independent products such as EyeFi are getting better, but still very poorly implemented. There isn't a single camera vendor or independent product that works well, currently.
-Matt
Look... the guy can't very well get up there in an interview and tell you that, "Yeah... we kind of suck at designing a new laptop that will truly make pros and power users happy." He's got to try to sell what the company delivered. But don't forget, this is the Apple with Tim Cook at the helm, who recently was quoted as not understanding why people still want to use a computer instead of a tablet/mobile device.
I really think there's a disconnect in the company between what true power-users expect and what Apple's upper management thinks makes for the "best overall product". They're heavily fixated on "style" right now, and not entirely wrongly so. They figured out that stylish hardware sells quite well and for premium prices. There's a real desire out there for computer gear that looks impressive and stands out. (Even in business.... I know the marketing firm I work for absolutely cares about having "thin, lightweight, elegant" laptops to carry around. They opted for Macbook Airs despite the performance hit, back in 2011, and never looked back. There's just too much perceived value in showing up at a client meeting and whipping out a sleek looking portable with the respected Apple logo right on it. It says "successful" and "well off enough to afford these instead of some budget portable", among other things. And when you travel a whole lot? The light weight and small size really does get appreciated.)
But IMO, Steve Jobs used to be pretty good at demanding interesting styling while still expecting certain functionality was there. I didn't always agree with his priorities, and as we can almost all admit -- sometimes his design choices were poor (Apple puck mouse, anyone?). But most of the time, he was in the ballpark, finding a good blend of the two.
Without him to provide guidance (or was that shoving it down their collective throats?) -- I think Apple has become too design/style heavy, without enough folks on the other side demanding raw power and functionality. Like it or not, the Apple corporate culture has NEVER really been about listening to what the users said they wanted. I'm not sure it's ready to start now? Apple believes it was largely successful because it DIDN'T listen to what people asked for. Instead, it came up with things they didn't even think about or realize they wanted until it was shown to them.
I get the sense that the "Apple faithful" expect to be wowed by these types of radical new ideas with new product releases, but the company is slowing things down a bit, doing more evolutionary updates to existing products. So in that sense, they're disappointing people. Evolutionary updates aren't a bad way to approach things either. I mean, once you have proven "winners" -- why mess with success? I definitely think that works well for the iPhones, where people often keep buying them BECAUSE they don't want the hassle of re-learning how to do various things in Android or another OS, and they already invested in a number of iOS apps they want to keep using. But when you go to incremental updates more than "amazing new things", you really have to also start listening more to your users and doing what they ask for.
I can't speak for everyone, but the people I generally see commenting about this stuff online seem to all be saying, "Enough with lighter and thinner as features! Give us more battery life and more ports that don't need dongles and adapters!" And right now, Apple is absolutely ignoring all of that. Perhaps they think it runs counter to their priority of "style"? But IMO, there's little more ugly than a Mac with a bunch of dongles hanging off of it so you can get things hooked up properly to it. They seem to pretend that scenario doesn't really happen..... (and for their upper management who clearly aren't power users, it probably doesn't).
Why is everyone treating this as an either/or scenario? Their USB-C ports are great and cool and whatever. But the fact remains that most professional users frequently need Ethernet. They need SD. They need USB 2/3. They need HDMI.
If you don't need those ports, then great! Buy an Air. That's what they were designed for. But for those of us with more sophisticated workloads that need a computer more powerful than a food processor, we *need* those ports to function!
There is ZERO reason Apple couldn't have added those USB-C ports while also leaving in all the other ports. But they didn't, and THAT's what people are bitching about. A laptop that starts at THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS, and you can't even connect it to a TV without a $50 dongle!
How anybody can think that that is reasonable, is beyond me.
With the design decisions Apple has been making lately, I can only guess that their Reality Distortion Field has experienced some kind of polarity shift and it's now affecting management instead of users.
For the L-bracket, is there a compelling reason for a camera to have its USB port right where the bracket is? Can't it be on the back, or on the sides?
One side is devoted to all the various ports available (mine has HDMI, USB, microphone, headphone, plus an accessory port) on the camera, while the opposite side houses the card slots - two slots on a higher-end camera). An L-bracket is going to need to obstruct one of these sides. You can usually find a way to leave cables connected to the camera while the L-bracket is mounted... the problem is connecting or disconnecting cables, because you don't have the necessary freedom of movement you need with the L-bracket is there. People shooting outdoors, and people who are working on the move, aren't going to want to leave those cables hanging from the camera during use (the former because having those covers open compromises the weather resistance of the camera, the latter because it would just be a pain in the neck). Portrait photographers do use their cameras on a tripod with multiple cables connected at the same time, though.
One way or another you're stuck with all these things being located at the camera's ends, because you can't really interfere with the optical path down the center of the camera. You also have to allow for the battery, which needs to be easily accessible during a shoot.
The back of the camera is pretty well taken up with various buttons and other controls, plus the LCD panel. Putting all the ports on the back would seriously cramp the working space for the controls. Putting them on the front would make using the camera more difficult.
Note: I am not a professional photographer, just a hobbyist.
#DeleteChrome
They've also eliminated the ability for you to expand your storage with a JetDrive or other SD card so that if you need, say 512GB, you need to buy the more expensive configuration from them. For a lot of things, like picture or document storage, you can get away with and SD storage device and avoid the Apple toll. Not anymore.
All for the sake of a handful of laptop users compared to the total market [...]
The "total market"? Who are these people in the "total market"?
Guess what? The "total market" has a pretty large share of professional photographers who are willing to shell out $3000 for a laptop. Remember, this is the "Pro" market--people who make a living off their computers.
Every single port is USB-C with Thunderbolt 3 support,
True. But if you actually want speed, you should only use the ports on the left-hand side.
this latest flap over ports will have faded into history as the rest of the world moves to USB-C too.
So what you're saying is that right now it's as useless as teats on a bull?
Let's be clear about something. No one would be bitching about this if the announcement were made in 2020. Right now I can't find a single "Professional" use case for this laptop other than to give it to the receptionist at some hipster new startup to show how "cool" they are.
USB-C is coming. Everything will plug and play without adaptors. Just in time for this generation of Macbook "un-Pros" to be relegated to the dustbin and upgraded.
Modular is good
You know what else is good? Not being modular and it just working in normal conceivable scenarios. Modular is a term held in praise for swapping some rarely used functionality for some other rarely used functionality, not for scenarios like "Oh wow it was so inconceivable that someone hands me a USB stick that I need to go find my module for it. I'll be right back with my module so I can plug your crazy non-standard USB stick into my super modular laptop."
He is absolutely right about all those common consumer cameras having wireless anyway. Just as Apple is right that consumers won't need Ethernet, or VGA, or Displayport, or HDMI. Consumers don't need to worry about the lack of the escape key and are so used to touchpads that the new function bar will come as second nature to them.
The only thing wrong with the Macbook is that they still haven't fixed that typo on the website. It still says Macbook Pro. I thought they'd notice their mistake and remove the Pro from their site within a day or two because they are normally so quick but they've really dropped the ball on this one. I mean this is the consumer facing website and they can't even get the product title right.
Never underestimate the power of convenience. The slot in your laptop is there as long as you have your laptop with you. An external reader is something you have to dig out of your bag.
This. If time_to_transfer_over_internal_reader every single time.
Basically, for anything less than a full 8GB or larger card, internal wins.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
This. If time_to_transfer_over_internal_reader every single time.
Should read:
This. If time_to_transfer_over_internal_reader <= time_to_transfer_over_external_reader + time_to_unpack_external_reader + time_to_put_away_external_reader + value_of_convenience, the internal reader wins every single time.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
And there would be little to push peripheral makers to USB-C as long as all major laptop/computer venders continue to provide USB-A and HDMI ports along with USB-C.
People have really short memories. When the original iMac came out, people were freaked because it dropped floppy drives along traditional ADB (serial ports) and only provided USB ports.
You know what happened? People who needed floppy drives bought USB floppy drives. Lots of others realized they easily could do without. People who needed to connect their old serial devices bought adaptors. USB became massively popular far sooner than it otherwise would have. It was one of the most popular Mac models ever.
Lots of Apple products were predicted to be massive failures because they didn't have this or that feature that everything before had had.
On my desk right now is a 2015 Macbook Pro. Not a single USB device plugged in but I do use them now and then. In fact I have a 4 port USB hub sitting next to it, that I used to use but no longer do. Every morning I plug in my power cord, second display, and thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor (which has the ethernet cable plugged in the other end). If i had a new Macbook Pro, every morning I'd plug in my power cord, my 2nd display, and a $20 USB-C to gigabit ethernet/USB-A hub. That would give me everything I have today without any extra effort or dongles.
3 of our conference rooms have VGA connectors for the projector. One also has HDMI port. All of the rooms have spare dongles in them and I have my own. It is nice to be able to plug the HDMI cable directly into the computer when I use the conference room projector but that feature is hardly a deal breaker. Same with the SD card slot. It's nice but I rarely use it and have a USB multi-card reader sitting in my drawer if I really needed to.
We generally replace our computers every 3 years and by the time mine will be due, I'll get another Macbook pro without hesitation unless something else really compelling comes on the market by then. I'd be happy with a new pro now, but my current one is just fine.
All thing needs in a case that attaches to the bottom and provides a shitload of ports like Thunderbolt, USB 3, SD, HDMI and anything else that suits your fancy. Maybe even an extra battery. And then, when you just want maximum mobility and no peripherals, you still have an option of a thinner, lighter laptop then if it had to include all these ports. I think I could live with this.
On my desk right now is a 2015 Macbook Pro. Not a single USB device plugged in but I do use them now and then. In fact I have a 4 port USB hub sitting next to it, that I used to use but no longer do. Every morning I plug in my power cord, second display, and thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor (which has the ethernet cable plugged in the other end). If i had a new Macbook Pro, every morning I'd plug in my power cord, my 2nd display, and a $20 USB-C to gigabit ethernet/USB-A hub. That would give me everything I have today without any extra effort or dongles.
That's not a professional computer by any stretch. A *real* professional computer would have a docking station. Real companies buy laptops from the same vendor so they can put the same docking station everywhere, including conference rooms, and not mess around with tons of cables and adapters.
It's amazing how clueless Apple zealots are about what serious business IT environments look like.
And everyone has so much stuff that plugs into USB-C. Not!
Everything external will need a dongle. This is beyond stupid. Maybe in 3-years switch to all USB-C/Thunderbolt ports but if I want to plug into a monitor or use a USB flash drive I need a dongle. Absolutely ridiculous hubris on the part of Apple. If they wanted to make this move they should have included a port replicator to give users back useful ports.
Bad design decision. Period. And if Schiller is so worried about things sticking out of the side, why not put a docking station USB-C port on the bottom? Oh, that's because it would cut into iMac sales.
Sir, you post is brilliant and insightful. Please call Apple and read this to them verbatim. I would give you mod points if I had them.
I got my first ever laptop, an iBook (!), about 10 years ago, it was great to have a laptop with a well-integrated UNIX system (for development) with excellent multilingual support while being able to run Skype, edit videos etc. without too much hassle. Not a pro photographer but I take a fair few photos of family and hobbies so the SD card slot sees a lot of use. Ethernet port too. The optical drive is the only thing that's redundant . OS X is a bit meh but as long as I can launch terminals and applications it's OK. Most of my real work I do on my Linux desktop.
However the 2011 MacBook Pro I'm currently typing this on will be the last one I ever buy. I'm happy to add a bit of extra weight so as not to carry a bag full of expensive loseable dongles around, and no I do not want that fancy thing they're replacing the function key row with. My next laptop will run Linux.
Man, how did I ever end up being a director of an IT department after years of desktop support, software development, and managing networks? Clearly, I have no understanding of what a business IT environment should look like. ;-)
Maybe it's partly because I had the foresight not to get too tied to any single vender, - hardware or software (Apple included). Our office is 80% Windows computers. Most, but not all of the developers use Macs and we have various servers running linux. But we're clearly a bunch of unprofessional hacks.
Anyway, there are universal docking stations, - including ones for USB-C if you are so inclined. Some people like docking stations and over the years I have bought and installed many. I have used a few myself. Never been that enamored with using them or troubleshooting them.
Years ago, when I purchased my first Mac laptop to use at work, my Network Manager was baffled by the fact that I didn't get a mouse to go with it. "You spent a couple grand on that thing, it's OK spend a few bucks on a mouse". He was convinced that I was punishing myself to try and prove some point.
What he didn't understand was that even back then, on a Mac laptop, the trackpad wasn't some 2nd class pointing device only to be used when lacking a suitable mousing surface. It was big, supported gestures, and I could work with my hands never far from the keyboard. But he didn't get it because he couldn't get passed his preconceived notions. Now trackpads like that are common on many laptops. Still, some people like mice and that's fine.
Not every business is the same and if you're trying to support 5,000 or 50,000 people, maybe uniformity becomes extremely important. But honestly, being labeled unprofessional (in certain contexts) is almost a compliment at this point in my career. It's served me well.
but in fairness: no major-brand, professional laptop has had VGA or DVI outputs for awhile. HDMI and [mini-]DisplayPort for sure, but not the pinned ones. Both VGA and DVI are too thick. Most professional laptops have also dumped the ethernet port for the same reason.
What are you talking about? My Dell E6420 isn't *that* old, and has both VGA and Ethernet (and HDMI). My HP laptop at work is about a year old, and also has these same ports. You can't have a professional laptop without Ethernet. Where I work, there is NO wifi at all, for security reasons. Ethernet is the only thing allowed.
For example, the Surface product line has gotten along just fine without HDMI, VGA, or DVI. They expect you to use a dongle, which is itself fine.
That's fine I guess for a consumer product, not a professional laptop. I'm not going to carry around dongles just so I can use the conference room systems at work. And I don't have to, because they're smart enough to buy laptops with a full complement of ports.
Most importantly though? I use ESC without looking and I also use function keys regularly throughout the course of the day: keyboard brightness (up/down), play/pause, and volume (up/down/mute). Now, not only do I get no haptic feedback when I use them, like Surface's failed TouchCover, but they're context aware, which means that they won't always be there!
Yeah, that's really lame. But to be fair, a lot of consumer laptops got rid of the dedicated volume/mute keys ages ago too, just to save money. You're supposed to change volume in software I guess. Business laptops still have these though. So again, Apple shows the new MBP isn't a real business laptop. And not having an Escape key is an outright deal-breaker and makes the machine completely unusable.
Wow, you're almost completely wrong.
1. Jobs announced he had pancreatic cancer in mid 2004; he'd had it for about 9 months prior to the announcement. So, late 2003 - 8 years before he died. Not sudden at all.
2. He did not have the most common, extremely aggressive type of pancreatic cancer (pancreatic adenocarcinoma). He had the much less common (2-5% of cases) pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor type. This type is much less aggressive, which allowed him the 9 months of holistic fuckery before finally having the recommended surgery in 2004. If he'd had the extremely aggressive form, he'd have been dead in early 2004.
3. It is likely, though not proven, that the 9 months of fuckery in 2003-2004 did finally catch up to him. The neuroendocrine form of pancreatic cancer is considered curable with surgery alone if caught and treated early. If not treated early, it is considered incurable - but still not nearly as aggressive as the adenocarcinoma.
4. In Jobs' case, the cancer was not fully treated by the 2004 surgery, and it eventually spread to his liver. Again, likely but not proven to be a result of the fuckery. This led to a liver transplant in 2009.
5. He finally died due to complications from the cancer, 2.5 years after the liver transplant, in 2011.
The only things you got right were "pancreatic" and the holistic fuckery.
HDMI / DVI will take a very long time to die.
Are there even any big at least 8X8 DP matrix switchers?
as for presentations lot's of places are only cabled for vga.
I was a fan of the Macbook Pro and I've owned several models. I will not be buying this one. They basically took everything that was great about the Macbook Pro and threw it away.
CF is fucking big. It's basically a tightly packed 44-pin PATA interface. You can ask until the universe achieves heat death, but you're not getting those back.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Sure they do. They're just not particularly useful in this case.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Those are all reasons why it's not as bad to remove the slot, but none of them tells us why it's actually a good idea.
43Ã--36Ã--3.3 mm (Type I) (most everything today is type I)
vs
32.0Ã--24.0Ã--2.1 mm Standard SD card
Its bigger... but its not that big. My previous macbook pro had an expresscard slot that was far bigger than a CF port,and a DVDRW.... there was lots of room on the 2010-2012 macbook pros especially since thunderbolt has replaced expresscard and DVDRWs are no longer required... lots of room for ports and more battery.
Right, because that isn't an approved device right now. My point is, however, that because of this stuff, they likely wouldn't even be considered in the case they wanted to change IT vendors. And given the absolutely enormous size of this particular organization, that's a huge amount of business they're missing out on.
Ok, I never heard the more detailed version of this. But still, the post I was responding to completely left out these rather important two facts, and made it out that he was someone like Mickey Mantel, who ruined his liver with alcoholism and had to get a transplant, not that the liver problem was a complication from pancreatic cancer (likely compounded by wasting time with holistic fuckery), which wasn't his fault at all (aside from the holistic time-wasting).
Well, yes. This is kind of what I was getting at. USB-C ports are a sort of pseudo-modularity, but that's what's ideal about them. They don't take up space with things people don't need. Standard interconnects like this are the best of all possible worlds, TBH. You've got enough bandwidth to drive huge monitors, or a USB stick, or a SD-card reader or whatever you want.
Look, let's break it down.
Less than 100% of people that buy the Macbook Pro are photography professionals. (What percentage, I can't say.)
Of those people, fewer than 100% of them use standard SD cards. Many Nikon photographers have been in the same boat as me for years.
What you're saying is that Apple should've catered to a percentage of a percentage of their users for their highest end, theoretically most versatile system. Even if you add a CF slot to the laptop, you're still addressing some fraction of the population that is necessarily less than 100%. We actually did all our photo editing on desktop machines; we just have an assload of CF cards.
The addition of more versatile interconnects makes far more sense from a design and appeal perspective than keeping around slots that some people are guaranteed to never or rarely use. Yes, it would be wonderful to have some sort of morphing slot that takes whatever card or plug you stick into it without you having to adapt, but why should Apple stick parallel ports and PS/2 ports and mini-USB, etc., etc. on their machine?
Elegance is when there's nothing left to take away. This is a far more elegant solution.
(Do not take this defence of the port setup to be a blanket defence of the laptops as a whole. I just think they made the right call in this one case.)
I'm not aware of any particular makes and models of DSLR that offer built-in 802.11ac. But if your existing DSLRs make the files on the CF or SD card available through MTP or mass storage, search the web for pocket nas to find a device that connects to the camera's USB port for wireless file transfer. This one supports only 802.11n though.
DSLR = digital single lens reflex camera
DSRL = Double Stuf Racing League
Less than 100% of people that buy the Macbook Pro are photography professionals. (What percentage, I can't say.)
Of those people, fewer than 100% of them use standard SD cards. Many Nikon photographers have been in the same boat as me for years.
To paraphrase, nearly 100% of people that buy the Macbook Pro will need at some point to attach a peripheral to it.
Nearly 100% of those people will NOT be using a USBC device.
USBA, HDMI, ethernet are probably the most likely.
SDCard, CF are definitely further down the list.
serial, parallel, ps2 are even further down.
There's certainly a reasonable argument to be made that CF is far enough down the list and that CF is bulky enough that it doesn't make sense to include it. But USBA? HDMI? ethernet?
Macbook pro users that will need to attach a USBA port at some point likely approaches 100%
The addition of more versatile interconnects makes far more sense from a design and appeal perspective than keeping around slots that some people are guaranteed to never or rarely use.
Past a certain point yes. On the other hand everyone who needs a serial port already owns a USBA to serial adapter. Everyone who needs CF already owns a usba to CF adapter.
Having a laptop that out of the box doesn't work with ANYTHING anyone owns without another adapter is idiotic.
Elegance is when there's nothing left to take away. This is a far more elegant solution.
Then take away the keyboard and the trackpad, and sell us a tablet, and if we need a keyboard and can attach those too. But there is a reason we bought a laptop instead of a tablet in the first place. And there is a reason we passed on the macbook air and the macbook to get a macbook pro... and guess what, being able to plug the things we need into it was a big one of those reasons. They took away things that people need. The fact that there is a clumsy workaround with adapters is not 'elegance'.
If you read my other posts, you would have known nothing about whether I own a gun (I don't, even though I support the 2nd Amendment: I suck at aiming). I do buy some things online. But everything? No way! What are you - someone who lives home all day in his night suit? What a boring life. That said, a lot of grocery stores (Safeway comes to mind) do allow you to order online and they deliver, so you can do that as well.
Right now, we have some small USB drives around that we use to move things from computer to computer. When you're playing Artemis, for example, it's important that everyone has the same version.
Right now, every computer at these events is compatible with the USB drives with no hassle. Nobody has to dig into a bag, or realize they left their adapter at home. I'd like to keep that going.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Well, back to building hackintoshes I guess.
It's the OS that has me sold, the hardware has been nice but I entered the Apple ecosystem by way of building my own computers I guess when my current MacBook pro starts showing signs of age I'll go back that direction. That is unless someone at apple gets fired and a new lineup of decent machines materializes.
Taking away the trackpad and the keyboard are not in the same category of removal--when you remove those things, you redefine the actual device. A laptop is explicitly defined by the presence of those two things.
In any case, the all-in jump to USB-C is really forward looking. It's undoubtedly a hassle now, but part of the reason for that is because there aren't enough USB-C compatible computers to warrant USB-C devices, and there aren't enough USB-C devices that companies have been including a lot of USB-C ports. Apple has forced the hand of accessories makers. It's a short term pain for a long term gain--exactly the same way it was when they moved to USB-A in the first place.
I will grant you this, though: the fact that you can buy a brand new iPhone 7 and a new Macbook Pro and not be able to plug one into the other out of the box is madness. It's a failure to attend to the details. The iPhone 7 itself should come with 2 cables so that it's guaranteed to work with any Mac out of the box. Apple needs to be the change they expect out of others.
640k ought to be enough for everybody, right? And there is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home, right?
You customers want certain features. Either you listen or you can go the way of other companies that thought they could tell their customers what they want.
Jobs's cancer wasn't "extremely aggressive" and it was detected early. He would probably be alive if he had followed his doctor's advice.
1) multiple cards are for backup reason, not continuous space
Many pro photographers have multiple cameras these days, they may have a mirrorless and a DSLR and/or some compact fixed lens camera... do you think multiple cameras means one card, or more than one card?
Also even with just one camera I know a LOT of photographers that shoot across multiple cards in a day, because one card dying doesn't mean you have lost all your photos.
Apple could invest the effort to design the fastest SD reader,
They would but it wouldn't matter. That would only be for the year the laptop was bought, which will be used for many years after... within a year there could be a better card reader. That happened originally which is why I don't use my built in reader much at all.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In any case, the all-in jump to USB-C is really forward looking.
You and I actually live in the present.
It's undoubtedly a hassle now
Yes. It is. And by the time the future you are forward looking to actually arrives we'll be buying new laptops. So this laptop is just a hassle.
, but part of the reason for that is because there aren't enough USB-C compatible computers to warrant USB-C devices, and there aren't enough USB-C devices that companies have been including a lot of USB-C ports
Yes, the chicken and the egg problem. However you don't conduct your social experiments on the pro users. Its fine that the macbook only has USBC. It's fine if the next macbook air only has USBC. But pro users are in the market for devices that work WITHOUT hassles, not 'maybe without hassles in 5 years after they've given it to their kids'.
Apple has forced the hand of accessories makers.
Not really. All they've done is force me to buy a pile of adapters. (if I bought one) and I already have the adapter for ethernet... which i'd have to replace.
It's a short term pain for a long term gain--exactly the same way it was when they moved to USB-A in the first place.
This is nothing like when they switched from ADB to USB. ADB was a shitty proprietary bus and other than a few barcode scanners the only thing that really used it was apple keyboards and mice -- and your new USB only iMac CAME with a keyboard and mouse. (yeah it was a shitty puck mouse... but at least it came with it)
This time around, I've got piles of accumulated technology that uses USBA. From my kids lego mind storms to my harmony remote to my mechanical keyboard to the flash drive I use with my car stereo, to my gaming headset, to the usb to serial adapter i use to connec to to the console port on cisco routers. Everything I have would need an adapter with the macbook pro... every usb device I own, and even my existing thunderbolt stuff.
And 3 years from now... most of this stuff... I'm STILL going to be using a lot of it. It'll take a decade for this stuff to wear and get replaced, even i started only buying USBC stuff today going forward... I'd still have a decent amount of USBA stuff in use for the entire life of this laptop.
And I'm NOT going to run out and buy USBC stuff today, because
a) USB accessories are a bleeding edge mess.
http://www.laptopmag.com/artic...
It'll get better with time. But it takes TIME. Let the consumer early adopter play on the bleeding edge, the pros want mature reliable stuff that connects WITHOUT HASSLE to the equipment they rely on.
b) I have other devices. I'm not going to buy a USBC flash drive, because all my other computers, and all the computers at work, and all the computers my relatives have are USBA. There are some combo devices... but they are over-priced and inelegant devices with ports sticking out of both ends. I'm not going to run out and buy a USBC keyboard either... same reason... my other laptops and devices are all USBA. Maybe 5 years from now when most of hte computers I interact with have USBC THEN I'll get a USBC keyboard... but today? Doesn't make sense. All apple has done is make using a macbook pro a needless hassle.
And 5 years from now... whose to say USBC utopia ever even happens? Maybe it does. Or maybe we'll need a new connector to handle dual-link thunderbolt 6 holographic displays... or we'll get our energy densities and charging tech up and people will want to dock their phone into their electric bicycle and power it from the phone. And we'll need a new connector that can move a lot more energy through it. One standard to rule them all... right until the next one comes out.
But wait there's "one more thing" Apple... by using USBC as a charging port, and as a display port... now I
Very informative link, thanks.
They could have at least provided a Lanyard Loop for the 12 dongles you'll need to carry to make your MacBook Pro usable ...