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Robots Are Being Used To Shoo Away Homeless People In San Francisco (qz.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Quartz: San Francisco's Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) has been ordered by the city to stop using a robot to patrol the sidewalks outside its office, the San Francisco Business Times reported Dec. 8. The robot, produced by Silicon Valley startup Knightscope, was used to ensure that homeless people didn't set up camps outside of the nonprofit's office. It autonomously patrols a set area using a combination of Lidar and other sensors, and can alert security services of potentially criminal activity.

In a particularly dystopian move, it seems that the San Francisco SPCA adorned the robot it was renting with stickers of cute kittens and puppies, according to Business Insider, as it was used to shoo away the homeless from near its office. San Francisco recently voted to cut down on the number of robots that roam the streets of the city, which has seen an influx of small delivery robots in recent years. The city said it would issue the SPCA a fine of $1,000 per day for illegally operating on a public right-of-way if it continued to use the security robot outside its premises, the San Francisco Business Times said.

237 of 422 comments (clear)

  1. Humans! by Zorro · · Score: 5, Funny

    EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

    1. Re:Humans! by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      I was thinking of something more like this...

    2. Re:Humans! by PPH · · Score: 1

      Quick! Hide behind the discarded sofa!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Humans! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Funny, IMHO it looks more like this one.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re:Humans! by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was thinking SPCA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., cough, cough, people are animals too. I wonder it they shoo away injured dogs, or have robots chase lost kittens, it's like seriously dude, check yourself, what the fuck. What you do, is guide them to the right organisations to provide them assistance, you do not treat them worse than stray dogs or cats. Only fucking America.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Humans! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      They already know that every dollar that you donate to the SPCA is money that you're not using to help your fellow man. Something tells me they like all other animals more than people.

    6. Re:Humans! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      They have been doing something like this with kids for years in the UK. Instead of robots they have speakers outside the building that play classical music all day. The cool kids don't want to hang around asking people to buy them booze any more.

      Of course, all it does is displace the problem.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Humans! by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      There's a parking garage close to where I live, and they play march music 24/7, to deter homeless people from sleeping there. It is rather surreal pulling in to park with the Liberty Bell March going at full tilt.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    8. Re:Humans! by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no equivalency between displacing kids looking for alcohol and a supposedly compassionate organization buying a robot to (quite literally) inhumanely drive off people whom society has failed.

    9. Re:Humans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Society has failed them, seriously? In my country we have places for such people (shelters), the only requirement is for them to be sober. Well, guess what... they choose to stay outdoors with their booze.

    10. Re: Humans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I work in social services in California and these people have so many resources available to them.. It would blow your mind. Each of them could have an apartment, maybe even a house, with 3 meals per day, job training, cell phones, and monthly doctor visits.

      Literally the only condition is that they can't use drugs, because it's dangerous for the workers and other people who live near them.

      They'd rather get high.

      Society has not failed them. They're rejecting the help.

    11. Re:Humans! by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Hopefully vandals will destroy/damage these bots relentlessly

    12. Re:Humans! by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      We're not quite at that phase of late-stage capitalism just yet, but give it a couple of years.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    13. Re:Humans! by Cederic · · Score: 2

      No, they do actually help animals.

    14. Re:Humans! by Cederic · · Score: 4, Informative

      they choose

      Really?

      high prevalence of mental illnesses and other psychiatric disorders

      -- https://jamanetwork.com/journa...

      80% of respondents reported some form of mental health issue, 45% had been diagnosed with a mental health issue.

      -- http://www.homeless.org.uk/fac...

      Around 70 per cent of people accessing homelessness services have a mental health problem.

      -- http://www.nhsconfed.org/resou...

      Society has failed them, seriously?

      Civilised society, yes.

    15. Re:Humans! by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Although there is undoubtably a level 'holier than thou' bullshit I suspect that people satiating a severe alcoholism and/or drug dependency don't exhibit behaviours that allow for a safe and supportive environment for other users of the service.

      I wont guess whether homelessness or addiction came first, or if one was a material factor in the other. There is though a very high overlap.

    16. Re: Humans! by twotonfist · · Score: 1

      I dont think he has spent time around dogs either.

    17. Re: Humans! by ichthus · · Score: 1

      So, if you're homeless, you get free reign of everything in the city? You get to loiter, sleep and poop anywhere you want? Now, who needs to check their privilege?

      --
      sig: sauer
    18. Re:Humans! by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Society has failed? Do they bear zero responsibility for their situation? It has never been anyone's job to provide for them since the ACLU sued to shut down the mental asylums on the grounds they were prisons and mental illness is not a crime.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    19. Re: Humans! by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      You have no clue dealing with homeless. My town has huge homeless problem as a result of pushing them out of nearby cities and reducing support services. They set up camps with all the drugs, sex and crime to go with it. All the surrounding area neighbours are scared because they are often NOT mentally stable and not friendly. Homelessness is a choice and way of life for a good portion of them. The ones who can accept help can and do, and I very fucking much doubt the SPCA didn't already try the easiest route first and had to go this route as a last resort.

    20. Re:Humans! by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      There is no equivalency between displacing kids looking for alcohol and a supposedly compassionate organization buying a robot to (quite literally) inhumanely drive off people whom society has failed.

      What is the problem with trying to drive bums off and away from your place of business.

      Having a bunch of bums begging, drugging drinking and passing out in front of your place of business, is bad for business and often unsafe for your employees and customers.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    21. Re: Humans! by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      In my town, there's several who fucking jaywalk in traffic all the time without looking both ways. It's going to cause a very big accident someday as someone swerves or stops suddenly causing collisions. I consider myself a good driver, but I know if my truck killed one even if it isn't my fault, I'll be mentally fucked the rest of my life. Literally, 30ft away from lighted crosswalks. I wouldn't care about the jaywalking if they bothered to wait until it's clear and look both ways. We all do that if there's no traffic.

    22. Re:Humans! by Quarters · · Score: 2

      Do you understand the irony in an organization that openly takes in and cares for homeless animals using a glorified Roomba to drive off homeless humans. They spent donation money on a robotic sentry so that they didn't have to directly deal face-to-face with these people. It's sterile and disgusting and all the more so because of the fact that the SPCA is showing that they value the dignity of animals more than humans.

    23. Re:Humans! by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I tend to like other animals more than most people. People are mean assholes (including me). But kitties are cute, even when they are being dicks.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    24. Re: Humans! by spongman · · Score: 1

      Stalin was a liberal?

      Lol!

    25. Re: Humans! by spongman · · Score: 1

      Nobody's forcing them to do anything. They can stay outside dunk if they want.

    26. Re:Humans! by erapert · · Score: 2

      drive off people whom society has failed

      Living on the street without a home or a job? Here's some free advice:
      1. Get a job. Any job. Minimum wage works just fine. All you need is a couple hundred bucks a month-- that's more than you were making when you didn't have a job isn't it? The harder you work at this job, the more overtime hours you put in, the faster you'll get out of poverty. If it were me I'd pick a job that would allow me to really shine through sheer work ethic. Fast-food is perfect for this because the competition are all teenagers that barely show up for their shift and when they do they act like idiots. You can make manager in a couple of months at these kinds of jobs if you simply keep your nose clean, show up for your shifts, and don't be an asshole to the boss.
      2. Get a gym membership somewhere that has a shower. Use this for bathing (every day) and what little recreation you need if you can't stand to work another minute (get some you-time once a week). It shouldn't be more than $20 a month or so. If you have someone you can room-mate with to split your bills you need to seriously consider whether this will be worth it to you just to have a roof, a couch, a kitchen, and a shower. It depends on how much the total rent and bills are and how hard it is to live on the streets (i.e. Winter in New York vs summer in San Francisco). Think about what it is that you really need to live. Remember, you're trying to work your way out of poverty. The good life comes later.
      3. If you're living on the street get some camping gear (i.e. a portable stove, some pots and pans). That's right, you're going to do your own cooking and you're never ever going to eat out. You should be able to feed yourself easily if you buy stuff like beans, rice, and veggies and have plenty of money left over. Don't leave trash lying around, clean up after yourself and you probably won't be bothered by anyone because you won't be bothering anyone.
      4. Save your money. Put it all into the bank or into an investment account. You can get either or both by just walking into a bank and telling them what you want: an account that you can have your paychecks direct-deposited into and an investment account. If you really want to access this stuff digitally then go to the public library and use their computers for free.
      5. Stay off the booze and drugs. This one is going to be hard because, let's face it, this is probably the exact reason you're homeless in the first place isn't it? But this is extremely important. If you can't or won't do this step then you will not succeed in working your way out of poverty.

      Give it a couple months and you'll probably have more money in the bank and be physically healthier than half the nine-to-five-rat-race participants in a hundred mile radius. You won't even be paying taxes because you don't have property so you won't pay property tax, and you're making too little so that under the progressive tax system the government will be sending a check to you at the end of the year if you file your tax returns.

      Once you've got some money saved up and your investment account is starting to grow at a healthy rate then you can think about buying some luxuries. Here's some ideas:
      0. See about moving in with a room mate. Getting a good night's rest is important after all, and a bed in an apartment is much nicer than a sleeping bag under an overpass. It's still a luxury, though, so think carefully about how much it's worth to you.
      1. Buy a bike. This basic transportation must not be underestimated for getting around an urban environment. You don't have to buy gas or register it or anything and if you pedal with a modicum of purpose and energy then for short distances you'll get where you're going not much slower than you would if you were driving a car and had to wait on traffic lights.
      2. Buy a cheapo cell phone. This is pretty extravagant, but it's hard to really get along in modern society without a phone so that work

    27. Re: Humans! by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      By today's American definition of liberal, yes absolutely.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    28. Re: Humans! by FuzzyDaddy2 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there is a way to have sympathy for people who are in a crappy situation, even if they are not saints.

    29. Re:Humans! by fropenn · · Score: 2

      Good luck getting that job with no address, no proof of immigration status, and you are disabled, mentally ill, addicted to a substance, or you have kids you have to take care of during the day with no help.
      You are just victim blaming here, and the real problem is that we have created a culture where homelessness is acceptable when there are some very real structural steps we could take as a society to fix these problems.

    30. Re: Humans! by interstellarsurfer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it sounds like classical music, to you - to younger people, and those who still have overly sensitive ears, there is a near ultrasonic overtone that is at least 120dB in power blaring constantly. It's a sonic weapon targeted at kids and a small minority of adults.

    31. Re:Humans! by chewie2010 · · Score: 1

      dude, I walked by this particular SPCA on the way to the BART in SF. If you have never been to SF you would be surprised by the 1000's of homeless every where. SF is like a zombie town with homeless people on every corner. Its not cruel, trust me, its a much bigger problem then most Americans think.

    32. Re:Humans! by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Cat's are homicidal maniacs.

      http://abcnews.go.com/Technolo...

      Maybe get a dog. They're generally smart enough to know what not to kill.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    33. Re: Humans! by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      This was what I was going to say, you beat me to it. Let's see, worship the state (check), no room for dissent (check), advocated killing people who disagreed with him (check). Sounds like American liberals to me! (Who aren't 'liberals' at all as they do not have free minds or free markets)

  2. Sadly, by fluffernutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is probably just the beginning.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Sadly, by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is probably just the beginning.

      Next step is to create a robot to shew away robots...

    2. Re:Sadly, by locater16 · · Score: 1

      Think of it this way, sure it's dystopian, but it's cool as fuck dystopian! I mean if society is going to go to shit before we all get wiped out at least appreciate it's going to be cyberpunk af while it's happening before the robots finally come for us all.

    3. Re:Sadly, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is probably just the beginning.

      Next step is to create a robot to shew away robots...

      I bet you could hire a homeless person on the cheap.

    4. Re: Sadly, by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Smartphone charged with a radioisotope thermal generator -- also useful for keeping the user warm :)

    5. Re:Sadly, by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's try to cut through the hyperventilating and click-bait headlines a bit, shall we?

      First, keep in mind that the SPCA complex takes up an entire city block, and that they were having a real issue with safety and crime on their property. Prior to this, SPCA employees were literally not able to safely use some of the sidewalks due to discarded needles, obstructions, and so on.

      Second, the robots are set to detect any illegal trespassing or activity, and simply report it to human security personnel. It's not like the robots have mounted tazers that drive the homeless out, running for their lives. In fact, people have vandalized the robots by tipping it over, covering its sensors with BBQ sauce or feces, etc. These robots are completely harmless, and in fact, are downright defenseless.

      City Hall is great at lecturing others to be tolerant and risk their own safety while they can just nudge the police commissioner to quietly push homeless toward someplace where they don't have to look at them. I mean, we can't have homeless tents blocking off City Hall, right?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    6. Re: Sadly, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Poor, defenseless robots!

      Let's give 'em guns...

    7. Re:Sadly, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sounds like cameras at each building corner would have been cheaper and more effective.

    8. Re: Sadly, by omnichad · · Score: 1

      What good jobs are there for someone with severe schizophrenia?

    9. Re: Sadly, by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Candidate for public office

    10. Re:Sadly, by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      It's not like the robots have mounted tazers that drive the homeless out, running for their lives.

      Yet.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Sadly, by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Dystopian would be hiring ED209 for the job, not some thing covered in kitty pictures. "You have 10 seconds to comply"

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    12. Re:Sadly, by coofercat · · Score: 1

      So what's the difference between these robots and a CCTV camera or two?

    13. Re:Sadly, by glaucomys · · Score: 1

      Yes, probably. All companies have to adapt their product to their customers, as everyone knows. So because of this usage, Knightscope will probably update its robots with a loudspeaker shouting expletives as it detects "unwanted" presence. Oh, and a taser in case things get out of hand...

    14. Re: Sadly, by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I thought that was usually Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    15. Re: Sadly, by CyberRacer · · Score: 1

      The diff is that a camera needs someone to watch it, a robot is autonamous, no supervision required.

    16. Re: Sadly, by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      One word, magnets.

    17. Re:Sadly, by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      If you could hire them, they wouldn't be homeless. I'm still seeing wanted posters a few blocks away from beggars.

  3. That does it! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I'm gonna flood the place with homeless robots to counter.

  4. It's a problemtunity by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    There's homeless hackers who need robot parts, too. Won't someone think of the homeless hackers?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re: It's a problemtunity by quonset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes because none of them would suffer their whole lives from fetal alcohol syndrome or anything.

      Then perhaps all those Republicans who are hellbent on outlawing abortion because it "kills a person" should enact laws to penalize pregnant women who smoke, do drugs, drink excessively or are obese. After all, shouldn't poisoning their "child" for nine straight months count as child endangerment?

      In fact, if they're so concerned about the "child" then they should make it a requirement for women to have twice monthly visits to verify they aren't endangering their "child" through any of the above. You know, like a former convict has to report to a probation officer.

      There. Problem solved. No more fetal alcohol syndrome. Just like outlawing abortions means no more women getting abortions.

    2. Re: It's a problemtunity by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Feel the impotence burn inside you...revel in your anger, it won't turn back on you, no sir.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re: It's a problemtunity by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I think that a larger chunk of them (in SF at least) suffer from schizophrenia than FAS, that has been my experience at least.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    4. Re: It's a problemtunity by MoaDweeb · · Score: 1

      And that makes Nazis a force for good?

      --
      New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
    5. Re: It's a problemtunity by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I think that's true everywhere.

      That and drug addiction seem to be the two major causes of homelessness everywhere I've been.

      Followed probably by failed to reacclimate veteran. FAS probably isn't even top 10 for cause.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re: It's a problemtunity by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Also, none of the things I've listed are mutually exclusive.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    7. Re: It's a problemtunity by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This. They should just be more awesome like you are.

      You are cayenne8, aren't you?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re: It's a problemtunity by Canbot · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure Republicans would love to pass laws that punish mothers who do that to their kids, it's the democrats who would prevent it.

    9. Re: It's a problemtunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just outlaw them from wearing shoes or leaving the kitchen. Bring back foot binding! #MAGA

    10. Re: It's a problemtunity by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, many of the homeless have varying degrees of mental illness. People on welfare often get stuck on it because they lose the benefits faster than earned income fills the gap.

    11. Re: It's a problemtunity by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Nah, it'll be like last time, when the SJWs kicked their nazi asses back to cuntland.

    12. Re: It's a problemtunity by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And with coming on 100 years of those state services with the grand result of more people on them them than ever before, any non-idiot might come to the conclusion that taking some people's money to give to other people isn't especially healthy for society.

      More people being on welfare isn't a result of people being on welfare. It's a result of corporate welfare handouts. Corporations are legal fictions, they do not have a right to exist. When we place corporations before humans, we dehumanize ourselves.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re: It's a problemtunity by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      This. They should just be more awesome like you are.

      You are cayenne8, aren't you?

      He didn't mention his awesome sports car with built in babe in the passenger seat, so maybe not.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    14. Re: It's a problemtunity by Megol · · Score: 1

      I hope you understand that your thinking on corporations is equally valid applied on humans? Humans have no right to exist. There are no rights at all unless a group of people decide that there are certain rights and enforces them. Choosing those rights always means some people are forced to follow rules they don't agree with.

      The group of people have decided that corporations should exist therefore they _have_ a right to exist.

    15. Re: It's a problemtunity by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I feel like you needed to include /sarcasm tag. People actually believe that because a stupid fucking politician sure does.

    16. Re: It's a problemtunity by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Pro lifer thinks trespassing earns a death sentence. Trespassing is so far fucking low in criminal law, but deserves death? Fuck, the biggest trespassers are probably teenagers. Fuck off, you righteous cunt.

    17. Re: It's a problemtunity by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      On further reading, I don't think I understand wtf you're talking about trespassers. You don't make sense. Where the fuck does trespassing come in birth control? My best guess is that you don't know what birth control is.

    18. Re: It's a problemtunity by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Calling everybody you disagree with a Nazi is sure to help spread your impotent rage. Keep it up.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re: It's a problemtunity by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The group of people have decided that corporations should exist therefore they _have_ a right to exist.

      A small group of people made that decision. Most people were not consulted, and most people who were consulted were bamboozled first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re: It's a problemtunity by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Yes because none of them would suffer their whole lives from fetal alcohol syndrome or anything.

      Then perhaps all those Republicans who are hellbent on outlawing abortion because it "kills a person" should enact laws to penalize pregnant women who smoke, do drugs, drink excessively or are obese. After all, shouldn't poisoning their "child" for nine straight months count as child endangerment?

      You jest, but given this Congress, noone is safe.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  5. Irony by hackwrench · · Score: 1, Informative

    Humans are also animals.

    1. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Irony... A ticket and fine for the robot in a public area, nothing for the homeless loitering and interfering with businesses.

    2. Re:Irony by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1, Informative

      Why should you ticket people who are already in an unfortunate situation? I don't think anyone is homeless by choice.

    3. Re:Irony by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Self-esteem issues, undiagnosed psych or even physical issues making work difficult? It's not as simple as "they want to bum around."

    4. Re:Irony by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1, Troll

      The fact that government policies enable sloth doesn't help things. Round 'em all up and put 'em to work if they won't do it themselves.

    5. Re:Irony by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      I hardly think that government policies encourage people to sleep on the street. Other than policies which pump up housing prices and remove affordable housing from the market, but I don't see those as "enabling sloth."

      Are you proposing bringing back the workhouses from Dickens? If yes, go fuck yourself.

    6. Re:Irony by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Why should you ticket people who are already in an unfortunate situation? I don't think anyone is homeless by choice.

      How do they prevent the homeless from congregating around City Hall? Are they forcibly removing these people who are already in an unfortunate situation?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    7. Re:Irony by sjames · · Score: 1

      Arbeit macht frei?

    8. Re:Irony by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      Humans are also animals.

      According to the learned, humans are machines.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    9. Re:Irony by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The fact that government policies enable sloth doesn't help things. Round 'em all up and put 'em to work if they won't do it themselves.

      Appropriate user name is appropriate.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    10. Re:Irony by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Arbeit macht frei?

      Well, there were good people on both sides in those concentration camps. Good people. On both sides. As well as bad ones.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Irony by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Animals are also machines. Everything is everything else. You seem to have a number of paradoxes you need to route around. The universe sees paradoxes as damage to be routed around and thus is one big internet. So the internet is a series of tubes!

    12. Re:Irony by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you were being sarcastic, but some of the doctors in the concentration camps were good people - not many, but a few. There's documented evidence of some of them using their power to keep prisoners alive as long as possible by making up bullshit experiments that didn't harm the prisoners, making sure they got fed better, or even using their time to forge documents that helped them escape.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  6. Hmm... by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

    Mr. Robot, meet Mr. Baseball Bat!

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    1. Re:Hmm... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      So he's not homeless any more - problem solved!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  7. Humans aren't animals? by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I find it remarkably hypocritical that the SPCA of all organizations is chasing homeless people away from their local headquarters. Don't they realize that people are animals too, and deserving of at least the same caring and consideration that they'd give to homeless cats or dogs? Do they think that horses and cattle are deserving of their attentions but homeless humans aren't?

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
    1. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      To be fair, if spayed and neutered people this would be less of a problem.

    2. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that they keep stray humans in cages and try to get other humans to agree to care for them, until they run out of space in the cages and then euthanize them?

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    3. Re:Humans aren't animals? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do they think that horses and cattle are deserving of their attentions but homeless humans aren't?

      In short, yes, and they are part of a whole industry based around that idea. Humans enslave "lesser" animals and use them to enhance their sense of well-being in lieu of spending their time, energy, affection and even money on their fellow humans — who desperately need their help. Then they become more withdrawn, and less interested in engaging with other humans... The SPCA has to protect the idea that pets are more valuable than humans, or else humans might start spending their money on other humans instead of on their pets, and then the SPCA might cease to exist. All bureaucracies exist first and foremost (if not at first, then eventually) to self-perpetuate.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Humans aren't animals? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh for fucks sake.

      (The below are generalizations, they tend to be true. I don't want to hear about an anecdote regarding noble Prince Hobo who'd never stoop to this kind of behavior.)

      They leave their trash everywhere
      They pester people going in and out for change (sometimes pretty fucking aggressively)
      They absolutely deter people from going into a business

      Even a non-profit like the SPCA should have the right to keep their entrance as inviting and usable as possible. Stow the virtue signaling outrage. If it was *your* office building, you'd more than likely sing a different tune.

      Besides, a stray dog or cat did NOT CHOOSE that lifestyle.

    5. Re:Humans aren't animals? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I find it bizarre that SPCA has funds for homeless-shooing robots.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    6. Re:Humans aren't animals? by avandesande · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently they crap in the street and spread disease too- but this seems like more of a societal problem than the SPCA's

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    7. Re:Humans aren't animals? by sysrammer · · Score: 5, Informative

      I find it bizarre that SPCA has funds for homeless-shooing robots.

      TFA sez the robot costs $6/hr to rent. Min wage is $14/hr.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    8. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      Well, if we're not going to fund proper mental health care for them, that'd be more compassionate than leaving them to slowly starve or freeze to death while assaulting each other and engaging in substance abuse.

      I think it's more important to spay and neuter the adult population first, though.

    9. Re:Humans aren't animals? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      You read TFA? Noob ; )

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    10. Re:Humans aren't animals? by MoaDweeb · · Score: 1

      I vote you and yours first.

      --
      New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
    11. Re:Humans aren't animals? by slshdtisctrldbysjws · · Score: 1

      Homeless people aren't as cute as animals so they yield a harder-to-sell virtue signalling product. You seem to be starting on the assumption that these organizations exist to actually do good. Actually they exist to sublimate the middle-to-upper class's sense of personal social responsibility to keep them in a state of brainless consumerism with no actual hand in their own governance.

      --
      My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
    12. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Gussington · · Score: 1

      I find it bizarre that SPCA has funds for homeless-shooing robots.

      TFA sez the robot costs $6/hr to rent. Min wage is $14/hr.

      How much does it cost to repair a robot smashed with a baseball bat?

    13. Re:Humans aren't animals? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Stow the virtue signaling outrage.

      I'm a retired 'Nam vet, 30% disabled, all Service Connected. My cat and my sister's dog are both rescued from the local Animal Shelter. And, I've seen the problems the homeless can cause by squatting in a neighborhood, and they're not pretty. However, using robots to chase them away isn't the answer, because it just leads to people smashing the robots to defend whatever little speck of space they're trying to use to sleep, that leads to the police coming in and it just gets worse and worse. What's the answer? I don't know, but I do know that this isn't it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    14. Re:Humans aren't animals? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Informative

      Animal rights people typically have a hugely negative attitude towards humans, yes. It's not hypocrisy, it's the opposite: consistency.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    15. Re:Humans aren't animals? by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

      I'd imagine that'd be an issue for the rental company, not the one doing the renting.

    16. Re:Humans aren't animals? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      This doesn't solve anything. At best, all it does is force the homeless people to move to some other section of sidewalk in front of somebody else's business.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    17. Re:Humans aren't animals? by SimonInOz · · Score: 1

      You know, I don't think too many homeless people CHOSE that lifestyle. If you spoke to some, you'd find a long series of sad stories, many of them true.
      It's ridiculously arrogant to assume that just because you are doing well, others can too.
      This is in the USA - in a very wealthy area - but one medical emergency can bankrupt you - and that's probably what happened to a fair proportion of these folk.
      It could happen to you, too. Your job goes offshore, you become unemployed. Your medical insurance stops. You get depressed, cannot keep up with the mortgage or car payments. Your partner leaves you, and you have no active family.
      Bingo, you are on the streets.

      We need a better solution. A basic income would help. A sensible (and cheaper) approach to medicine would help enormously. And a change in attitude from "it's your fault, you deserve to suffer" would be good too.

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
    18. Re:Humans aren't animals? by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      I find it remarkably hypocritical that the SPCA of all organizations is chasing homeless people away from their local headquarters. Don't they realize that people are animals too, and deserving of at least the same caring and consideration that they'd give to homeless cats or dogs? Do they think that horses and cattle are deserving of their attentions but homeless humans aren't?

      It's hypocritical to use machines. We need to see that little Spike and Fido are capable of keeping out the lowlifes.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    19. Re:Humans aren't animals? by franzrogar · · Score: 1

      Oh for fucks sake, my response:

      (The below are generalizations, they tend to be true. I don't want to hear about an anecdote regarding noble Prince Hobo who'd never stoop to this kind of behavior.)

      They leave their trash everywhere
      > Sure, homeless animals after shitting, they take away their shit; same as pissing. And, "homefull" animals too...

      They pester people going in and out for change (sometimes pretty fucking aggressively)
      > Sure, homeless animals do not pester you for food (money can be used for food too).

      They absolutely deter people from going into a business
      > Sure, an stray bulldog sleeping in the entrance to a building doesn't deter but just to the dog-fearing people... Or, wait, it's that the "hypocrite" people just doesn't stand to see a people "not properly" dressed/cleaned.

      Even a non-profit like the SPCA should have the right to keep their entrance as inviting and usable as possible.
      > Sure, as long as it doesn't violate the Human Rights, you know, that Art. 1 where "all humans are ... equal in rights and dignity, etc".

      Stow the virtue signaling outrage. If it was *your* office building, you'd more than likely sing a different tune.
      > Not so sure, maybe they could talk, in the "American way", with a nearby Church (criminals too of the Human Rights) or any other NGO to help them "ACTIVELY".

      Besides, a stray dog or cat did NOT CHOOSE that lifestyle.
      > Sure, a homeless person DID CHOOSE to live in the street, scrap for food, be despised by people, etc.

      I do stop here because the adjective I've for you right now would not be appropriate even to 99 years old people.

    20. Re:Humans aren't animals? by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      “Success does not consist in never making mistakes but in never making the same one a second time.” —George Bernard Shaw

      Lesson learned.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    21. Re:Humans aren't animals? by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      I find it bizarre that SPCA has funds for homeless-shooing robots.

      TFA sez the robot costs $6/hr to rent. Min wage is $14/hr.

      How much does it cost to repair a robot smashed with a baseball bat?

      Anyone who does that is going to have a problem with the SPCR.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    22. Re:Humans aren't animals? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

      If being homeless was a choice, most of them wouldn't choose it. Sometimes, your sole profession no longer has jobs, or you had to spend all your money to take care of a disease, or your far workplace is too far from affordable housing (ex: amazon employees sleeping in tents).

      But I guess we all need to lie to ourselves that homeless people choose to be that way, helps us imagine it can't happen to us.

    23. Re:Humans aren't animals? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Besides, a stray dog or cat did NOT CHOOSE that lifestyle.

      No one "chooses" poverty and homelessness you dipshit, anymore than you've "chosen" not to own Google.

      Right wingers generally believe that (a) all their own good fortune is because they are a good person and (b) anyone else's poor fortune is because they are a bad person.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    24. Re:Humans aren't animals? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      There seems to be a tendency among animal lovers to be anti-social. Whether it's fear of people or insecurity or introversion is unclear. I know of no science that confirms this, but many people do- even pet owners.

      If you want to generalise about all pet owners, you are covering an awfully large proportion of the populace. Here in the UK, roughly 50% of people own a pet.

      Perhaps to a lesser extent, it seems that gregarious party animals aren't particularly interested in four-legged animals. What do you think?

      I'm not sure you're asking that question in the right forum.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    25. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I had a walking commute that would take me past the downtown homeless shelter in Austin, The previous 3 points, and yours really ring out. I would see human feces everyday, and the only days it didn't smell like piss was on days that it rained.

    26. Re:Humans aren't animals? by VitrosChemistryAnaly · · Score: 1

      Besides, a stray dog or cat did NOT CHOOSE that lifestyle.

      As many as 33% of the homeless have serious mental illness so I'd say that they hardly chose that lifestyle. I'd argue that even more have less "serious" mental illness.
      http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/fixing-the-system/features-and-news/2596-how-many-people-with-serious-mental-illness-are-homeless

      --
      "It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
    27. Re:Humans aren't animals? by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

      Guess it depends if Knightscope offers insurance or has it built into the rental price.

    28. Re:Humans aren't animals? by Dasher42 · · Score: 1

      > Besides, a stray dog or cat did NOT CHOOSE that lifestyle.

      WOW. What makes you think those humans did?! Do you know how extremely gentrified San Francisco has gotten? Do you know how many people its landlords have aggressively made homeless? When I was there people were paying hundreds for a walk-in closet and it's gotten much worse since.

    29. Re:Humans aren't animals? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      I find it bizarre that SPCA has funds for homeless-shooing robots.

      TFA sez the robot costs $6/hr to rent. Min wage is $14/hr.

      How much does it cost to repair a robot smashed with a baseball bat?

      Probably equivalent to the medical costs for a human bashed by same said baseball bat?

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    30. Re:Humans aren't animals? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You want a human SPCA? Okay. We'll make being homeless illegal.

      It already is, in most of the country. It's a crime to be broke in America.

      Despite what the marketing says, the SPCA exists to control the pet population in a way that is at least somewhat humane.

      The whole idea that there should be a "pet population" is a problem, and it's one that the SPCA promotes. In doing so, they perpetuate the problem. Living with animals promotes illness in human populations, and putting energy into animals means putting less energy into humans who desperately need help from other humans.

      You cannot simultaneously love a creature and warp its life to fit your convenience. The pet industry teaches us to degrade other living beings for our amusement.

      I don't think every pet owner out there is treating their pet badly. Just most of them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by DatbeDank · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Have your way with me mods, I've got karma to burn!

    The homeless population in San Fran is a massive problem. I've had my car's window smashed three times over the course of four years for trivial crap i've left in my car. Seriously, they really think that my FM transmitter and 75 cents are worth something? And this is in Portrero FFS.

    You consistently see these animals constantly shooting up, leaving needles everywhere, pissing in the street, and hassling you for money. They're a blight and the city's permissive attitude towards them only encourages more to show up.

      It's time we stop wasting money on these animals when they OD with Naloxone. If they want to drug themselves to the point of death, let them. It's time we let Darwin do his work.

    Zap them, beat them, lock them up and forcibly detox them from whatever drug they love, I don't care. It's high time vagrancy is treated the same way the homeless treat our communities, with reckless abandonment.

    1. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the trash, and the used needles littering the sidewalk, and the human excrement, the smell of stale urine in every other doorway, the passed out people in the park.
      San Francisco, great place to visit, glad I don't have to live there.

    2. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The homeless population in San Fran is a massive problem. I've had my car's window smashed three times over the course of four years for trivial crap i've left in my car. Seriously, they really think that my FM transmitter and 75 cents are worth something? And this is in Portrero FFS.

      So what? I lived in Bernal Heights and my whole car got stolen. You know why? Because no part of San Francisco is far from a ghetto. You know why that is? Because our whole society is sick from stem to stern. We get more satisfaction out of blowing people off than helping them. We've learned to be happy when we make people make a frowny face, instead of a smile.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Listen, buddy: If someone is legitimately breaking the law, then sure, let's arrest them and give them due process. But demonizing all of the homeless, because of some bad actors? That's just being a jerk. Are you aware that the majority of the homeless don't want to be? Or are suffering from mental illness of some sort? Or are drug addicts, and since there's no mechanism to get them off drugs, they're stuck in an endless downward spiral? What about honorably discharged veterens who are homeless? They served their country, now they're just scum so far as you or some others are concerned? What about homeless children? Should they just be 'shooed away' and forgotten, too?

      Here's an idea that you'll probably like: why not just put them all up against a wall, men, women, children, all of them, and just shoot them dead? We'll make them dig their own graves first, even. Then no more homeless! You'll be happy then, right? </extreme_sarcasm>

      For what is supposedly the greatest and most powerful nation on Earth, I think it's absolutely shameful that we have any homeless problem whatsoever. Instead of demonizing the homeless, we should be working to solve the problem -- and I don't mean "ship them off somewhere else", either. We treat ANIMALS better than we treat the homeless.

    4. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by fafalone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So your response to Petty crimes is a death sentence? Has it occurred to you that maybe you're part of why society is so fucked up in the first place?

    5. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by VAXcat · · Score: 2

      He clearly meant, when they OD, stop wasting money treating them with Naloxone.

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    6. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      The homeless population in San Fran is a massive problem. I've had my car's window smashed three times over the course of four years for trivial crap i've

      Have you ever wondered why? Perhaps all drugged out animals in America are attracted to the golden gate bridge? They just...ah... naturally tend to congregate there?

      left in my car. Seriously, they really think that my FM transmitter and 75 cents are worth something? And this is in Portrero FFS.

      Feel the same way about v1agra spam... seriously how does anyone make money off this shit?

      You consistently see these animals constantly shooting up, leaving needles everywhere, pissing in the street, and hassling you for money. They're a blight and the city's permissive attitude towards them only encourages more to show up.

          It's time we stop wasting money on these animals when they OD with Naloxone. If they want to drug themselves to the point of death, let them. It's time we let Darwin do his work.

      Zap them, beat them, lock them up and forcibly detox them from whatever drug they love, I don't care. It's high time vagrancy is treated the same way the homeless treat our communities, with reckless abandonment.

      Have you done anything to build consensus to make government change it's insane policies? Anything at all to address underlying causes? BTW what's average home in San Fran running these days? A cool mil?

      In the real world literally beating down symptoms has a proven track record of accomplishing nothing. Almost as worthless as bitching on Slashdot about your "problems".

      I think you actually may have inadvertently hit on the core problem when you used the words "I don't care".

    7. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      The SPCA is a classic example of that. See TFA

    8. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I live in Detroit. There is not a homeless problem.

      Bullshit.

      There are not needles in the street.

      Bullshit.

      I have a nice car and it has never been stolen or broken into,

      Because it didn't happen to you, it's not happening? Oh, okay.

      The "whole society is sick" is limited to where you live (and perhaps some other places).

      Yeah, like you. Not just where you live, but you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Must admit, if I was going to be homeless, I'd much rather do it in lovely warm southern California than in fuckmeitsfreezing Detroit.

    10. Re: Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Replying again as not NA because this needs to be said:

      Ignoring those with mental illness (which by the way, is only 33% which includes vets with PTSD http://www.treatmentadvocacyce... )

      The cruel fact of the matter is homelessness is a choice. They want to be homeless and not seek out the hundreds of opportunities there are to pull oneself out of their holes. We are a society of welfare and foodstamps. Hell, I even signed up for foodstamps in college just because I could! If a broke college student can do it, so can a homeless drug addled bum.

      Want to know why they don't bother? Because it's easier to make a living panhandling from guilty nitwits like yourself and shooting up / drinking to oblivion.

      This behavior won't change because fools like yourself have a guilt complex that don't push them into improvement.

    11. Re: Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by ThanatosMinor · · Score: 1

      The cruel fact of the matter is homelessness is a choice. They want to be homeless and not seek out the hundreds of opportunities there are to pull oneself out of their holes. We are a society of welfare and foodstamps. Hell, I even signed up for foodstamps in college just because I could! If a broke college student can do it, so can a homeless drug addled bum.

      If you were broke and government assistance helped you, good. I just wish the lesson you learned from that wasn't that you should be a selfish jerk and demonize everyone else who's worse off now than you've likely ever been.

      Want to know why they don't bother? Because it's easier to make a living panhandling from guilty nitwits like yourself and shooting up / drinking to oblivion.

      This is pure made-up garbage. Homeless people aren't raking in big bucks, or for most even small bucks. The homeless of San Francisco are dirt poor and the most vulnerable people in our society. There are something in the neighborhood of six homeless people for every shelter bed. Most shelters don't admit families.

      I used to hang with gutter punks in Berkeley and I acknowledge that some people are homeless by choice, but they're usually kids from bad homes who found a community on the street that was safer than home for them, and they are a small minority of the homeless population in the Bay Area. Almost nobody wants to be homeless. Almost nobody wants to be addicted to drugs. The solution to these problems is treatment and prevention, not punishment. It costs more than $70K per year to incarcerate someone in California so it doesn't even make economic sense to criminalize homelessness. You could pay them a living wage and still have money left over. Most people with stable housing and a strong community don't end up addicted to drugs or homeless, and a lot of homeless are there simply because losing their jobs started a downward spiral that's VERY hard to escape from.

      People with mental health issues and drug addiction (which isn't even close to all homeless) don't need to be pushed into improvement by cattle prods. They need to be given opportunities to get better on terms that work for them. This approach is backed up by experience and evidence, rather than your idiotic ideas that are based entirely on your own idiotic ideas of what causes homelessness, which lead to your idiotic ideas of how to deal with it.

    12. Re: Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Drug use and abuse is, and will always be, a choice. Same goes for homelessness.

      We as people have this wonderful thing called free will. Unless one is mentally ill, the cold hard truth is that they're here because:

      1. It's warm
      2. The pervasive progressive attitude of the citizenry allows for it to fester.
      3. Drugs are cheap and easy to find.

      Notice how they all made a choice to come here for those benefits alone.

      The fires in Los Angeles were caused by a homeless encampment under the 405. I have friends who were made homeless because of these vagrants. Ironic isn't it?

    13. Re: Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      The cruel fact of the matter is homelessness is a choice.

      {CITATION NEEDED}

      I don't think you've EVER talked to any legitimately homeless people so you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Get the blinders off, you head out of your ass, and GET REAL.

    14. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      Of course, it would be really helpful to enforce immigration laws so that illegals don't inherit the same, if not more, rights than actual US citizens. Then perhaps homeless people could get low-skilled jobs, a little dignity, and maybe even an address. Unfortunately, if the minimum wage keeps getting pushed higher, there will be no businesses left to hire them anyway. Luckily, the Silicon Valley elites will remain secure in their gated communities, pushing all of the buttons that keep the robots on patrol. Onward and upward, comrade!

    15. Re: Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? I see too many people being 'assholes' about the entire homelessness problem, and it's not helping anything or anyone to be that way, so I guess I need to fight fire with fire. Stop demonizing homelessness, stop criminalizing it, and for fuck's sake stop shipping them off to somewhere else and claiming you 'solved the homelessness problem' because you didn't do any such thing, you're just treating human beings like garbage when you do that.

      * If they're legitimately committing crimes, then get them off the street. But don't just stuff them in jail then release them back to homelessness afterwards, you idiots, FIX THE PROBLEM!
      * Oh and by the way: Making 'being homeless' a crime is FOUL PLAY and I call you out for it.
      * If they're drug addicted, stop playing the 'blame game' and saying 'they CHOSE to be addicts', FIX THE PROBLEM so they're not addicts anymore!
      * If they refuse to stop using drugs, 'Call it evolution in action' and let them destroy themselves. Can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Sad but true!
      * If everything just fell apart in their lives, they WANT to be productive and live a normal life again, for fucks sake help them out of the hole they're in instead of making them into criminals!
      * Oh and by the way there is no 'requirement' in this country that you live in a structure somewhere. If someone wants to live outside, aren't drug addicts, aren't comitting crimes, and aren't a burden on society, then leave them the hell alone to live how they want! (DISCLAIMER: These type of 'homeless' are few and far between but they have the RIGHT to live how they want to live. Stop demonizing them, stop lumping them in with everyone else.)

      Oh and by the way there is no 'requirement' that I agree with you or anyone else about anything whatsoever and if you don't like that then tough shit.

    16. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by Dasher42 · · Score: 1

      Some progressive city.

      You know what city realized that criminalizing a horrible human rights problem, which homelessness is, is far more expensive than just buying people apartments? Salt Lake City. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10...

      Just miles away from me they're doing better yet than that and are building a tiny house/RV/tent community and people are going from homeless to having work building a community lifting themselves up, because people *want* dignity and shelter. Why has San Francisco morphed into this cold capitalist place where you've got to be a millionaire to live comfortably? Why are people assuming the worst about an entire group of people who have large numbers of military veterans and domestic violence survivors among them??

    17. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There has always and will always be human trash.

      There have been and probably always will be people profiting from that state of affairs. Low-lives are a dime a dozen. You can't go after every one of them, but you can go after the guy who's responsible for the dimes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Good and Stop Reviving Them When They OD by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      What about honorably discharged veterens who are homeless?

      For all I know, they are the ones who deserve electric shocks from robots. Because many of them did far worse to innocent people in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

      The other homeless people, sure, could be human. But the veterans are highly unlikely to be.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  9. Started passing out dollar store tasers by Cito · · Score: 1

    those 5 dollar tasers at dollar store are coming in great. Passing those out to homeless and told to short out any robot they see.

    1. Re:Started passing out dollar store tasers by slacktide · · Score: 1

      5 dollar tasers at dollar store are coming in great.

      They only sell those at the five-dollar store.

    2. Re:Started passing out dollar store tasers by nephilimsd · · Score: 1

      Clearly he was buying five one dollar tasers.

  10. Not animals by trveler · · Score: 1

    Apparently the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals doesn't think humans are animals.

    --
    ... is whot bwings os tugevza tsuzay.
    1. Re: Not animals by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Nope. The robot is rented at a rate below minimum wage. RTFA

  11. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    My dad was veteran who fought the Nazis. He lead a very successful life. Both my parents were veterans of WWII and Korea. They weren't drunks or drug addicts, and both worked hard all there life.

    Today's veterans have a couple choices: 1) suck it up, and act line a man, 2) become a homeless drug addict, or 3) go on a shooting rampage, mowing down as many strangers as possible.

  12. Come on, this just has to be some ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... seriously hilarious grey-hat hacker prank waiting to happen. I suspect bananapeels won't cut it, put I'm sure that plastic tarp, sailfishing string, graphite spray/powder, oil, spray-paint, craltops, remote controlled tilt-ramps, duct-tape, wall-to-wall carpeting tape, some other trinkets and perhaps even some more elaborate wireless/mobile connection hacking can produce balls of fun with this partolbot. Or some way to mislead it into a pit or curb with fake portable walls or something.

    Don't tell me you weren't thinking about this yourselves the minute you read the story.

    Bottom line:
    Could some local hacker crew get to it and post an anonymous video on youtube about the results? I'd like something to laugh about.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Just throw a tarp over it, put it in a metal Faraday cage box, and take it on "vacation" to a San Diego beach. Let the owners wonder why they're suddenly getting footage of Sunset Cliffs :)

    2. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised someone hasn't stolen the robot and parted it out on Ebay.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      seriously hilarious grey-hat hacker prank waiting to happen. I suspect bananapeels won't cut it, put I'm sure that plastic tarp, sailfishing string, graphite spray/powder, oil, spray-paint, craltops, remote controlled tilt-ramps, duct-tape, wall-to-wall carpeting tape, some other trinkets and perhaps even some more elaborate wireless/mobile connection hacking can produce balls of fun with this partolbot.

      It's already happened, friend. If you scroll to the bottom of the article, you will find that the patrolbot has been defeated using plastic tarp and barbecue sauce. I'm not shitting you.

      " According to the San Francisco SPCA president, they "put a tarp over it, knocked it over, and put barbecue sauce on all the sensors."

      I'm just wondering how long it will take to have the patrolbot designated as a "person" and allow police to shoot anyone who messes with it.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by sheramil · · Score: 1

      going to go out on a limb here and suggest that a Faraday cage is not part of most homeless peoples' daily carry.

    5. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I just have to wonder did it say in a raspy metallic voice "vision inpaired, I can not see!"?

    6. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I just have to wonder did it say in a raspy metallic voice "vision inpaired, I can not see!"?

      No, it said, "Please stop resisting" and then, "Please drop your weapon" and then shot and killed the unarmed naked man crawling away on his hands and knees begging not to be shot.

      Phoenix police just put in an order for 200 of the robots.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Come on, this just has to be some ... by sheph · · Score: 1

      I was reading in an article yesterday that the homeless people covered its sensors in BBQ sauce and kicked it over.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
  13. Tarp? BBQ sauce? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised no one went all-out, dousing the thing with a gallon of gasoline and lighting a match. Burn, baby, burn!

  14. Shoo, Robots by mentil · · Score: 4, Funny

    San Francisco recently voted to cut down on the number of robots that roam the streets of the city, which has seen an influx of small delivery robots in recent years. The city said it would issue the SPCA a fine of $1,000 per day for illegally operating on a public right-of-way if it continued to use the security robot outside its premises

    Maybe the city should hire the homeless people to shoo away the robots, and issue tickets.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  15. Is this for real? by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

    I have seen this story in other venues, and am having trouble believing it's for real. The SPCA? Not a particularly wealthy organization or one that is so on the technological leading edge that they'd be using robots.

    1. Re:Is this for real? by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Six figures is a nice income most places, but it's not exactly going to have you rubbing elbows with the Rockefellers, and you still need professionals who have a lot of other job opportunities. There are people who will work for peanuts because they believe in The Cause, but not enough. After all, if SPCA offers $100k/yr, and the World Wildlife Fund offers $300k/yr, guess who the animal-loving fundraiser with connections is more likely to work for? They will easily pay for themselves.

    2. Re:Is this for real? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      organization publishing the article is reasonably well-known (bizjournals.com)

      I have never heard of them, and the name sounds stupid. No, I'm not from the US.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  16. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by quonset · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In what way does fighting in Afghanistan give us freedom?

    Initially it would have been to go after Osama Bin Laden, the guy who planned the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

    However, when, for two days, Bush refused every single request by troops on the ground for more troops to block Bin Laden's escape from Tora Bora because troops weren't available as he was preparing to invade Iraq, that issue went by the wayside.

  17. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by mschuyler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're making it sound like the homeless are all veterans. Sure there are homeless veterans, but let's not try to explain homelessness as a veteran problem. The thing is, this 'veterans have trouble adjusting' schtick is a recent thing. We had millions of men in uniform for WW II and many of them saw really bad stuff. A few came back with what was termed "shell shock" (I knew 2 of them) but millions adjusted just fine. Now that PTSD is a 'thing' suddenly we have thousands and thousands of veterans thus affected. What's up with that? Is the current generation of veterans just so very sensitive that they can't hack what their grandfathers could? Do you think the horrors of war are worse now than they were then? Or are we encouraging people to self-identify as 'affected'? Seems to me calling out veterans is misguided and not the point. And I'm a veteran myself.

    --
    How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  18. People... by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 1

    ...are animals too! But then an awful lot of dedicated 'animal lovers' have strong misanthropic tendencies.

    --
    Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
  19. SF vagrants are a dangerous menace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The vagrants in SF are like no other. They are a dangerous menace. Easily the most aggressive and violent I have seen and a physical danger to others. Only because the city coddles them to a ludicrous degree are they like this. Normal people are intruding on THEIR city.

    The problem would be dramatically lessened if the city had a fucking clue about how to treat them. Being homeless is not a crime, but attacking people, stealing, shitting in the open, and vandalism are. The bums need some consequences for their behavior to nudge them down the right path--involuntary detox also.

    1. Re:SF vagrants are a dangerous menace by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      They are a dangerous menace. Easily the most aggressive and violent I have seen and a physical danger to others.

      Put your pants back on. Your ass is talking.

  20. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by reboot246 · · Score: 4, Informative

    You're thinking of WWI. When we entered WWII nearly all of Europe was still in Nazi hands, as was North Africa. And we had been supplying the allies with weapons and machinery before that. The Japanese controlled nearly all of the Pacific west of Hawaii. The U.S was in the war for part of 1941, all of 1942, 1943, 1944, and part of 1945. At the end of the war we had 16 million men in uniform. So, no, it wasn't "basically" over when we got in.

  21. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by sheramil · · Score: 1

    4. re-draft all economically useless veterans. throw 'em in a C-17 and just drop them on whatever the fashionable target is, en masse. blacken the sky with the screaming doomed, now that's "shock and awe".

    it's been thought of.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_People_Fell

  22. SF SPCA reasoning from the article by TheSync · · Score: 1

    âoeWe werenâ(TM)t able to use the sidewalks at all when thereâ(TM)s needles and tents and bikes, so from a walking standpoint I find the robot much easier to navigate than an encampment,â Jennifer Scarlett, the S.F. SPCAâ(TM)s president, told the Business Times.

  23. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by MoaDweeb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe, just maybe people are being diagnosed with a mental illness when previously the prevailing attitude was 'suck it up;. Previous veterans had to get on with their lives with their own resources, plenty of WW2 veterans topped themselves. Remember back in WW1 shell shock was initially attributed to LMF (lack of moral fibre). Attitudes have changed since then.

    --
    New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
  24. Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by ErichTheRed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's very strange that the SPCA of all organizations is acting like that rich tech bro a few years back who published a diatribe about how the homeless people on his building's street weren't being sufficiently controlled by the city.

    My idea for fixing the problem is to re-open state mental hospitals. Almost all of the homeless problem is due to mental illness and drug addiction. Where I live, there are 5 massive, closed mental hospital complexes within 50 miles that housed thousands of patients each before the deinstitutionalization wave of the 70s and 80s. Why not reopen them as voluntary treatment centers again? Instead of beating and lobotomizing patients, give them the help they need to fix whatever problem is interfering with them having a normal existence.

    1. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by mysidia · · Score: 3

      It's very strange that the SPCA of all organizations is acting like that rich tech bro ....

      Not really.... they're being perfectly reasonable. The public access right of way is the public access right of way, not the personal property of homeless people ----- it's public so you can move through that area to go about your business, not so people can takeover that spot and sit there causing interference with others. Some person's lack of a home doesn't give them a right to setup tents and long-term camp your body at the entrance to someone else's facility.

      So the $1000/day fine for the robot makes sense, so long as the authorities are also aggressively issuing such fines and law enforcement actions against any individuals setting up camp or tents.

    2. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by sjames · · Score: 1

      If you watch the homeless people, a fair percentage of the older ones will be showing obvious signs of tardive dyskinesia (AKA the thorazine shuffle). They were in the mental institutions before they closed and were tossed out on the streets without regard for their ability to take care of themselves.

    3. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      Why not reopen them as voluntary treatment centers again?

      Because you're in America, where helping people with precious tax money is a big nono.

    4. Re: Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by houghi · · Score: 1

      Why? Money. On the short term it will cost and not enough people think, let alone care, about long-term.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Found the person who never met a drug addict in person...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Nope, the ACLU would just sue to shut them down again. Keeping people imprisoned like that is wrong and against ACLU ideals. Since when is mental illness a crime? If they were voluntary treatment centers, nobody would go there. Ever see the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"?

      There is obviously no middle way between "forcibly lock up anyone with even a minor mental illness for life" and "close all mental health hospitals and chuck everyone in them out on the street".

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    7. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by sabbede · · Score: 1
      Are there enough beds in existing mental health facilities for everyone who wants treatment?

      One of the factors involved in deinstitutionalization was the thorny ethical issue of forcing people to accept treatment. How many homeless, mentally ill, people are out there who have been diagnosed and prescribed medication, but for whatever reason would rather remain crazy than take their meds. Even after being treated, and are thus thinking rationally, many intentionally go back off their meds.

      Unless their illness results in them committing crimes, there's no legal authority to forcibly medicate anyone. So, what to do?

    8. Re:Suggestion: Reopen Mental Hospitals by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      The Enlightenment is the first time people started getting locked up for having "mental problems". Before that they were cared for by family and the Church.

      In the same way people contend old folks should be euthanized to protect Social Security (which originated to protect the elderly).

      Now the most Marxist urban area in the US is kicking the poor around ...

      And so the last thing people want to hear is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

  25. Next . . . by hduff · · Score: 1

    They'll just switch to very large bug zappers . . .

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  26. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    My dad was veteran who fought the Nazis.

    These days that would be described as "Committing alt-left violence against some Very Fine People."

    That would be funnier if the Nazis hadn't based many of their policies on the American Progressive movement. The left wing loved Hitler.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  27. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

    No; a couple means one or two. A few means three or four.

  28. A million great jokes by wyattstorch516 · · Score: 1

    and I can't think of one!

  29. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by sjames · · Score: 1

    How fortunate for them. Some people come through better than others, and some wars are worse than others.

    I know a guy who got struck by lightning and suffered no ill effects. According to your reasoning, the only natural conclusion is that lightning is harmless and anyone who seems to have died from it is just malingering.

  30. or... by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    they could just install a few speakers outside and play a really annoying song over and over.

  31. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People coming home from WWII got ticket tape parades and a booming economy. In an era where a high school diploma could net you a decent job, they had advanced training on top of that. As a society, it was understood that the women pressed into the work force by necessity would be vacating those jobs en-masse as soon as the troops came home. Even manual laborers made enough for a single income to modestly support a married couple.

    Does any of that ring true for Vietnam?

    Gulf veterans get respect, but no booming economy, no jobs being vacated, and everyone thinks you need a degree to pump gas (I'm only slightly exaggerating on the last one).

  32. Another suggestion: move past the drug myth by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Informative

    Almost all of the homeless problem is due to mental illness and drug addiction.

    Nah, it's about poverty. If drug addiction lead to homelessness, Robert Downy Jr. and Lindsey Lohan would have moved into cardboard boxes decades ago.

  33. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Initially it would have been to go after Osama Bin Laden, the guy who planned the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

    Then maybe he could have taken up the Taliban on their offer to hand over Bin Laddin if they provided some evidence that he was actually guilty of what the U.S. was accusing him of. Iraq wasn't the only bullshit war to come out of the Bush Administration.

  34. Illegally on public property? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    ...for illegally operating on a public right-of-way...

    If it's public property, how can you be illegally on it? I know you can take over/block public sidewalks (well, unless you are homeless, then SF and other liberal cities don't give a rip), but how is a roaming robot illegally on a public sidewalk?

    1. Re:Illegally on public property? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      By telling people whether and how they may use public ground based on the whims of a private organization.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Illegally on public property? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how that is illegal, either. If I own a business, I most certainly have the right to tell a homeless person sleep or taking a dump on the sidewalk in front of my doorway (if you think this doesn't happen, you've never been to San Francisco), to kindly move along. Now, I can't forcibly remove them, but the robots aren't doing this either.

  35. SPCA by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

    I'm shocked - shocked I say! - that an organization devoted to the euthanasia of homeless animals showed something less than charitable Christian kindness to homeless people.

  36. This is fucking disgusting by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

    no further comment.

  37. Re:California the most racist state in all of Amer by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

    You do know that using words like 'libtards' invalidates your opinion from the start, right?

  38. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by hai_Priesty · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I thought about this issue - along with what I've believe is a contributing factor why WWII victims (which is almost everyone I know that's over 60 in my childhood, >25 years ago) all managed to "suck it up" at my side of the world - The observed samples we have geared towards those that survived and thrived.

    Among extensive debates with a young-ish Japanese Senpai about WWII, we last concluded that even though I did not know a single person that suffers serious injury (mental and physical) that's supposed to have been ravaged by Japanese Army, sample of our experiences are inaccurate, as broken people are not likely to get married, reproduce, and generally savagely maimed victims don't survive for 4 decades for me to meet in my 1980s childhood. (He acknowledged that he himself had an uncle that was broken after returning from WII, and only faintly remembered said uncle as a NEET that was propped up by rich family, drink himself silly and do nothing but laze around in his home and lived just a little past 60 years.)

    And that also sums up most people's experiences with their WWII veteran Dad and Granddad - people that's well adjusted enough to go back to live a happy/productive life or at least raise a family of course are not a fair sample to gauge PTSD. I don't know much about homeless vet situation in 1950s, but real broken ones probably landed up in a mental institution by 1950 or succumb to alchoholism and most probably die childless at their 50s/ 60s.

    Talk to WWII veteran that still maintained vitality to talk about his experience at 93, Year 2017? Of course youngsters will have an impression that every single one of them WWII is tough as rock.

  39. Re:People are less than animals. by denzacar · · Score: 1

    People who'd get an idea to adopt a child from a TV commercial shouldn't be allowed near children.
    At least with pets, worst case scenario, poor animal has to suffer the fool for 12 years or so until it dies.
    With a child 12 years is just the start.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  40. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    What in that article supports this batshit insane theory? If you think the mere fact that he was chosen as Person of the Year does, you should read the opening paragraphs again.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  41. Of all possible organizations, the SPCA by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Is there a better way to promote their motto "We love animals. We hate humans."?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  42. Not in my back yard by scourfish · · Score: 1

    Cities in California give me this image of the residents having compassion for the less fortunate (and supporting higher taxes to try and execute that.) Then the residents go all NIMBY about undesirables they don't like in a public space.

    1. Re:Not in my back yard by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Marxists have never cared about the poor.

      Hugo Chavez died with 2 billion USD on hand. Why did he have all those personal assets? Helping the poor?

      The USSR built "food rights" right into their Constitution and 4-6 million Ukrainians died of starvation years later.

      If you want to argue that originally they had good intentions, well, maybe, but the whole thing seems like a crock to me.

      I can't believe people call movies a "cash grab". What do you think large governments are? It's a big shake down.

  43. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by fisted · · Score: 1

    A couple means two. Period.

    Wait what. Non-native speaker here. Can someone who is a native speaker confirm this, or confirm that AC is full of himself?

    I've always used "couple" - except when using it as a substantive - to mean "a few". As in "give me a couple minutes will ya?". Feels incredibly wrong to use it to explicitly refer to 2 instances of whatever.

  44. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by b0bby · · Score: 1

    A couple does indeed mean two - two people who are together are a couple. However, if you say "a couple of minutes" it's like "just a second" - not to be taken literally. So you're fine saying "give me a couple of minutes" and then going over.

    Some Americans also say things like "a couple-few people came over", just to further muddy the waters. Welcome to English!

  45. Re:What about right to walk safely? by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Because most of us don't want a world in which people with no money can not legally stand on the ground or walk down a street.

  46. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Cederic · · Score: 1

    American troops are fighting against terrorists in places like Afghanistan and Iraq so we can be free.

    No. They invaded Iraq under false pretexts that had fuck all to do with terrorism - unless you include "creating a fuckload more of it".

    Without the sacrifices by American soldiers for our

    Oil.

    But..

    We should be donating to help our veterans instead of the cruelty of chasing them away with robots.

    I do agree with this. The soldiers don't decide policy, can't rule on the legality of a war, put their lives at risk and deserve recognition for this.

    Just don't go romanticising the bullshit reasons that the politicians are putting them at risk in the first place.

  47. I have mixed feelings by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    On one hand, I really like that the robots are discouraging crime and discouraging tent cities. There are shelters with food services available to the homeless. It is annoying to be constantly panhandled. In my city, the panhandlers are getting pretty brazen. Some are doing it to scam people. One guy actually had clean clothes on and a pair of more expensive sneakers than I had. It was so brazen that I called attention to it. He quickly beat feet.

    On the other hand, I think this is just plain ugliness and hypocrisy. It's even sick adorning the robots with cute stickers. Why not help advocate solutions to the problem instead of simply sweeping it out of sight and out of mind? Especially from an organization dedicated to helping lives ... I fear for the days when the robots will actually fight.

  48. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Today's 'veterans' (really? you're a veteran with 6 months of combat duty? Try several years) return to a very different environment than post World War II veterans.

    When half your colleagues also fought in a war, there's a different level of understanding going on. When public services recognise and thank you for your contribution, it's simpler to access help. When the enemy was clearly vanquished it's easier to move on.

    Where's your option 4: Get support from the people around them?

    Incidentally, do you actually have any statistics on post-combat trauma and/or alcoholism for WWII versus modern combatants? Just because we didn't hear about it in the 50s doesn't mean it wasn't there.

  49. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    Those were different wars and the training the soldiers received was very different. Modern soldier training involves teaching the soldier to overcome the hesitancy to kill and indoctrinating death. Once the war is over, the psychological effects come in full force.

  50. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Cederic · · Score: 1

    One can mean a class of many. "One does not do this."
    Couple generally means two, but not canonically.
    Few means however fucking many people want it to mean. A few lads could be up to a dozen and nobody would bat an eyelid at it.
    Many tends to mean more than a few.
    Lots could be fewer than many or many more.

    It's a flexible language and these words allow a level of imprecision that it would be wrong to try to constrain.

  51. Who's responsible for the sidewalks? by sabbede · · Score: 1

    I don't know if it's the case in SF, but I'm pretty sure other cities make businesses responsible for keeping the sidewalk in front of their building clean and free of loiterers. So, is the ASPCA responsible for keeping homeless people from camping out in front of their building? Because there could be a whole other layer of absurdity in play here.

  52. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Many people think you're being silly.

    No data required.

  53. Wait -- what? by tacokill · · Score: 1

    So the homeless problem in SF and other liberal bastions are because society is fucked up? What about the hobos and bums? Do they share any responsibility at all or is it just society that is fucked up?

    I am asking because I haven't ever met a person in my life who wants more homelessness and more misery for people. I am quite certain "society" wants to resolve this.

  54. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by hey! · · Score: 1

    Well, as for WW2 veterans, they had all the same problems Vietnam veterans did. They just weren't homeless because of government welfare programs. I know because I grew up in the 60s, a mere 20 years after WW2, and I often visited my friends' crazy old unemployed uncles living in subsidized housing who'd show us their war tropies -- enemy uniform caps, even samurai swords.

    The worst off would have been institutionalized, but in the 60s and 70s there was an anti-psychiatry movement, centered around something called the Laing-Szaz hypothesis: "mental illness" doesn't exist; what we call mental illness is just a reaction to the irrationality of society. This united people on the left in the right behind deinstitutionalization: the left because they thought they were liberating mental patients, the right because they didn't want to pay for treatment. Moderates wanted to move the more functional of the patients out of the worst institutions to receive care in the community. That care never materialized -- not on the scale needed -- because of cost and NIMBY opposition.

    The result was in the 70s a lot of people who had been institutionalized ended up on the streets, and suddenly the mentally ill became a visible problem. It wasn't until years later I understood the policies which produced this, but at the time I remember walking down the street and marveling at the number of "bums" there suddenly were.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  55. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

    You're using it right (colloquially), it just gets the attention of pedants every so often. "There were a couple people on the bus" doesn't mean two making out, it just means it was a small number greater than one (since it is being used as an adjective). "I have a couple bucks on me" does not mean specifically two dollars, etc. In everyday speech it is a synonym of "few".

    --Disclaimer: this is how we use it in Northeast US. While other regions might do things differently, ours has more people than theirs and is therefore more correct (tongue in cheek).

  56. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by tsqr · · Score: 1

    A couple means two. Period.

    Wait what. Non-native speaker here. Can someone who is a native speaker confirm this, or confirm that AC is full of himself?

    I've always used "couple" - except when using it as a substantive - to mean "a few". As in "give me a couple minutes will ya?". Feels incredibly wrong to use it to explicitly refer to 2 instances of whatever.

    The rigorous dictionary definition of couple is "two". Used idiomatically (e.g., "I met a couple of friends for drinks" or "the package will arrive in a couple of days"), it means two or more, but not many.

  57. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by Megol · · Score: 1

    Soviet combat deaths in WWII -- >8,500,000 in approx. 4 years

  58. Re:Easy way to stop the robots by tsqr · · Score: 1

    Remind the makers that the homeless have the power to start massive wildfires.

    The residents of Southern California don't need to be reminded of that. The recent Skirball fire that swept through Bel-Air was started by a cooking fire at a homeless encampment.

  59. Connect it to Google by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    Give it a laser, problem solved.

  60. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Whorhay · · Score: 1

    Shell Shock was just the worst of PTSD cases where you couldn't just hand wave away the symptoms. Society was different then, and a guy who couldn't hold his temper in check to avoid beating his wife and kids wasn't such a big deal. Today that kind of behavior is generally inexcusable and will result in the police getting involved. War was also very different in the first half of the 20th century than now. There were clearly delineated lines of battle with fronts. Troops would typically be rotated to the front lines for awhile then spend time in the rear were it was essentially safe. Today we are engaged in asymmetrical warfare where there is no real safe place when you are in a combat theater, you are under constant threat from ambush, IED, and mortar attacks. That situation pushes people into a constant state of very high stress for months at a time.

    Our medical science has advanced incredibly which is a boon in that more soldiers can survive wounds that would historically have been mortal. The downside to those medical advances though is that just because a soldier survives, doesn't mean they aren't physically and or mentally maimed for the rest of their lives. I've also seen some reports that with the prevalence of IED attacks that more soldiers are suffering brain injuries than from previous wars where bullets, shrapnel, and disease were more the order of the day.

  61. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    It isn't that article that explains how much the American left, progressives, scientists, and social workers, were a big inspiration for the worst of the Nazi's policies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Eugenics, the set of beliefs and practices which aims at improving the genetic quality of the human population[2][3] played a significant role in the history and culture of the United States prior to its involvement in World War II.[4]

    Eugenics was practiced in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany,[5] which were largely inspired by the previous American work.[6][7][8] Stefan Kühl has documented the consensus between Nazi race policies and those of eugenicists in other countries, including the United States, and points out that eugenicists understood Nazi policies and measures as the realization of their goals and demands.[9]

    During the Progressive Era of the late 19th and early 20th century, eugenics was considered a method of preserving and improving the dominant groups in the population; it is now generally associated with racist and nativist elements as the movement was to some extent a reaction to a change in emigration from Europe rather than scientific genetics.[10]

    I would include more, but most of the references are from authors that I am sure you would immediately reject. And I have to go do work now, so Bye.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  62. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    I would include more, but most of the references are from authors that I am sure you would immediately reject.

    Indeed, because it would take a historical revisionist to suggest that there was something particularly "leftist" about support for eugenics when it found support widely across the political spectrum.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  63. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    The worst off would have been institutionalized, but in the 60s and 70s there was an anti-psychiatry movement, centered around something called the Laing-Szaz hypothesis: "mental illness" doesn't exist; what we call mental illness is just a reaction to the irrationality of society.

    People were already kicked out of mental institutions by that time. I doubt it had much effect. It has more to do with constant fighting between state and federal governments as to whose responsibility it was to pay for metal health care, and that there was a 1967 bill that said that made it harder for people to be institutionalized without their consent.

  64. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    It's amazing how many people don't know history, isn't it?Thanks for pointing this out.

  65. Update: Knightscope response calls bull on story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Please note that this article is misleading and has been updated with the following edit:

    Update (Dec. 13): This post has been updated to include comments from Knightscope.

    “Contrary to sensationalized reports, Knightscope was not brought in to clear the area around the SF SPCA of homeless individuals. Knightscope was deployed, however, to serve and protect the SPCA,” A spokesperson for Knightscope told Quartz. “The SCPA has the right to protect its property, employees and visitors, and Knightscope is dedicated to helping them achieve this goal. The SPCA has reported fewer car break-ins and overall improved safety and quality of the surrounding area.”

  66. Re: What about right to walk safely? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    It's not a money issue, it's a safety issue. I don't frequent Tim Hortons near as much because a good portion of homeless and shit disturbers loiter there, inside and outside. Employees are regularly screamed at and intimidated. It's a fucking minimum wage job. I pity the workers. Bathroom cleaning, no fucking thanks. A lady who works her small business a few blocks from the illegal homeless camp has lost significant business and all the homes around it are scared for their kids because of violence and needles. We have been throwing tons of money at the problem. We're talking 5-6 figure per person in housing and support services per annum.

  67. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Gornkleschnitzer · · Score: 1

    NObody expects the Veteran Inquisition!

  68. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    Bin Laden took credit. Maybe not initially, because he's a coward, but he did. No, it was not likely they'd turn him over.

  69. It says something by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

    It says something that the city's problem is "robots crowding the streets" and not the part of homeless people crowding the streets. I don't know what that is, but it says it.

  70. Re:Perhaps, perhaps by powerlord · · Score: 1

    Then perhaps all those Republicans who are hellbent on outlawing abortion because it "kills a person" should enact laws

    Perhaps the Democrats hellbent on enlawfulling abortion should enact laws to allow for not just robots, but robots to take the homeless people loitering and grind them into dog food. After all, it would just be a really late term abortion for a clump of cells no-one wants anymore to improve the lives of everyone around.

    So I should put you down as a "Maybe" on the issue of Abortions into the 63rd Trimester?

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    This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  71. That's by jf_moreira · · Score: 1

    the ugliest piece of hardware I ever saw.

  72. Re: Many veterans end up homeless by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    That's what they get for being allies of the Nazis first.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  73. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by retchdog · · Score: 1

    The Chinese are already doing this?!

    Mr. President, we cannot allow an inhumanity gap!

    --
    "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  74. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Dasher42 · · Score: 1

    That generation had the GI bill and an economy fully intact to become the powerhouse when the rest of the world is war torn. The boomers have taken that for granted and allowed the politicians to shred the bootstraps. You bet it's way different for veterans or anyone trying to get started now. Quality four-year education is nearly unaffordable, food and health care keep spiraling, and of particular relevance to San Francisco - a bunch of ridiculously rich and out of touch landlords are allowed to drive everyone's living costs up at a ridiculous rate. But, I'm stating what's blindingly obvious all around some of us, and somehow lost on others, and that clearly has to be because of their place, age, and/or assumptions.

  75. Re:What about right to walk safely? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    Which is an entirely different scenario than what we're talking about, which is people with no money leaving used needles and lounging on the sidewalk for extended periods of time, blocking others from using it.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  76. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    Comparing armed forces of two different nations fighting each other to some idiot punks attacking other idiot punks is kind of silly, don't you think?

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  77. Re:What about right to walk safely? by Cederic · · Score: 1

    The person to whom I was replying was inferring that people with no money shouldn't be allowed access to public resources. That has fuck all to do with whether they abuse those resources.

    Maybe you agree with them. I don't.

  78. Re:California the most racist state in all of Amer by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Someone using words you don't like doesn't make their opinion or argument incorrect.

  79. Re:What about right to walk safely? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    No, you were inferring that that's what they meant - they might have been implying it, but I don't read it that way. They said why should the homeless get more say than taxpayers, not why do they get any say. Maybe the AC worded it poorly, but it seems to me like they were saying the homeless shouldn't be allowed to abuse the sidewalks and prevent taxpayers from using them, not that the homeless shouldn't be allowed to use them at all.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  80. Re:Many veterans end up homeless by MercTech · · Score: 1

    In the U.S. Civil war; it was called "Soldier's Heart".
    In World War 1; it was called "Shell Shock".
    In World War 2; it was called "Battle Fatigue".

        The term "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" was first coined during the Vietnam Conflict. PTSD combines conditions with common symptomology from divergent environment stressors. Battle Fatigue, Survivor's Guilt, and reliving disasters all can show the same symptoms. PTSD isn't a "recent thing" but an evolving recognition of the fact that when you go through HELL; you can't forget it. You cope with the visit to hell. Some cope well from their time in hell. Others don't cope with hell memories too well.

        Until some Dr. Feelgood markets a truly effective eye bleach and mental floss; there will be PTSD.

    --
    NRRPT/RCT
  81. Old problem, Automated Old Solution by MercTech · · Score: 1

    Using robots is a bit different from hiring a tough bully with a truncheon which is the classic solution to a noticeable homeless population (Great Depression). When an area has only one area where the homeless won't be harassed or molested; there gets to be a bit of a name for it. i.e. Hooverville, Hobo Jungle, Public Camp. What is the name for it in your community?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/e/e0/20090312174935%21Hobo_Jungle.jpg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooverville
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

    --
    NRRPT/RCT
  82. Re:California the most racist state in all of Amer by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

    it doesn't make it incorrect. but one can't take it serious nonetheless