Slashdot Mirror
President Trump Directs Pentagon To Create New 'Space Force' Military Branch (defensenews.com)
Gunfighter shares a report from Defense News: President Donald Trump on Monday appeared to sign an executive order directing the Pentagon to create a new "Space Force," a move that could radically transform the U.S. military by pulling space functions variously owned by the Air Force, Navy and other military branches into a single independent service.
"I am hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces," Trump said during a meeting of the National Space Council. "That's a big statement. We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal. It is going to be something. So important," Trump added. "General Dunford, if you would carry that assignment out, I would be very greatly honored." Dunford responded in the affirmative, telling Trump, "We got you." The oddity of Trump's statement was that it was followed up with a White House readout that "contained no language related to the creation of a new military branch, leaving open the question of whether Trump has actually issued formal guidance to the military," reports Defense News. It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
"I am hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces," Trump said during a meeting of the National Space Council. "That's a big statement. We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal. It is going to be something. So important," Trump added. "General Dunford, if you would carry that assignment out, I would be very greatly honored." Dunford responded in the affirmative, telling Trump, "We got you." The oddity of Trump's statement was that it was followed up with a White House readout that "contained no language related to the creation of a new military branch, leaving open the question of whether Trump has actually issued formal guidance to the military," reports Defense News. It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
Dammit
He'd make the perfect mascot.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I guess this means the aliens are real and we will have space battles within a decade.
FUCK YEAH!
Is there any subject he can't bring racism into?
If we don't have Gundams, what's the point?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Should be in San Francisco.
"Space Force" just doesn't sound right for some reason.
of the space cadets
This kind of stuff takes a lot of money. Is there any proof or compelling evidence that we *need* a space force separate from what our current military provides?
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Here come the W.E.N.C.H.E.S.
"Women's Emergency National Corps, Hospitality & Entertainment Section" for those who've never read "All You Zombies"
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
Trump wants to be a war President as war Presidents most often get their 2nd term.
How many branches are there?
more of his cronies.
.... Seems like cyberspace is the more pressing thing to defend.
...for those of you in here, old enough to remember that, this will bring a little smile on your wrinkled faces.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
We need more federal agencies for the taxpayers to support! Drain the swamp! That is what it means, right?
Where do I sign up to join the Space Marines?
So he wants to be a 'war president" and yet ends the Korean war, and works hard on bring peace to the region? As its says in the book I'm currently readying, "You are as addled as an unhatched egg abandoned in the sun." An that is Truth.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Do you think anyone in his administration has mentioned to Trump that the United States is bound by a treaty, ratified in 1967, which specifically forbids militarization of space?
Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies
https://www.state.gov/t/isn/51...
I mean, I understand that he wants to do anything he can to distract us from the fact that his campaign manager is sitting in a jail cell, his personal attorney is spilling his guts and his administration is keeping children in concentration camps on our Southern border, but does he really think anyone but the most dedicated MAGA chud is going to think the SPACE FORCE is anything but the butt of future jokes?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Just a suggestion.
It seems mr. Trump runs out of treatis to back out of here on earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Yeah ! Another branch of the military, just to be able to divert more money from the people to the military industry ! Who is gonna pay for this ?
The translation here is "defense contractors want more money"
Unfortunately the psychopath nutjobs were pretty close behind us.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So he wants to be a 'war president" and yet ends the Korean war, and works hard on bring peace to the region?
Still hasn't happened. Nothing but a photo op so far.
NO it's in Cheyenne Mountain!
goatse for commanding office
Oh, the one-liners almost write themselves.
"It's fascinating to see an administration that's so anti-science enthusiastic about something that requires so much science."
"I hear the first job of the Space Force will be to build a really, really big wall to keep the green people out."
I bet with another tax cut!
America is so great right now
This 'would' be interesting if it's first task was to establish military basis on the moon and mars within the next 10 years. Fully funded.
Can't imagine it will happen, BUT it would make for an interesting point where those promoting space exploration could use Republican talking point and say we need to settle mars to have a strong military. It is a matter of national defense. Having lived in north dakota where it is political death to vote against 'agriculture' I can imagine there are some uses in having space exploration marked as 'critical for national defense' with a republican controlled congress who, if they don't fund it will be 'voting against veterans and a strong military'.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
around the whole planet! We'll make space pay for it! And we're gonna tariff the hell our of Jupiter! And any Martians that dare try to sneak through our wall, asylum or not, will have their little baby critters put into a small box and shaken! Because America... errr... Earth!
Thank little baby cheesus for family values and fiscal conservatism.
Moron...
Korean war was never ended, only an armistice was reached.
What the Hell does this have to do with Reagan? He was a Conservative and a Republican. A real one.
This is the worst of Reagan's brean-dead mind boggling expenditures in the name of "conservatism?" and you traitors of no particular ideology eat it up because a traitor promised it? Lol. Mueller's keeping a promise also!
The Air Force has satellites, the Navy has satellites, the Army has satellites. Consolidating 3x management resources into one is mind boggling expensive, how exactly?
...for those of you in here, old enough to remember that, this will bring a little smile on your wrinkled faces.
But I don't think Trump's "Spaceforce" is that sophisticated*.
I'm inclined to think he something like a "Moonraker" type of thing form that Bond film. You know, guys with rockets packs, flying around, shooting at one another with laser guns, dog fights between space shuttles, ..... like that.
*-I think Reagan was mostly serious about it but I also think it was a ploy to keep freaking the Soviets out.
It's like "Air Force" but without air.
These space comrades can't carry guns because 1 shoot can endanger the entire spaceship.
What the Hell does this have to do with Reagan?
Different AC, but I'm thinking that our fellow AC was thinking of this.
I mean come on? At the very least, you'll get to play laser tag in zero-G.. how bad could that be?
If it helps develop research and development into space stations and long range spacecraft then it's a good thing, for non-military reasons.
As for a real military mission, defending our satellites and taking out an adversary's really can be decisive in modern war. To loose GPS, imagery, and flash heat sensors (to detect enemy missile launches or strikes) would be a huge loss, again a space faring adversary.
However, I have long believed orbital space is a competency of the Air Force and that deep space should be a competency of the Navy. The Navy is all about self sufficiency far from any assistance. They also have the experience with being locked up in tiny spaces for many months, in submarines.
I do wonder, if we go to war with Russia--what happens on the International Space Station? Do they duke it out in hand-to-hand zero-G combat? What if it's taken over by the Russian crew complement? Do we send in space marines? What kind weapons would be, eh hem, safe? No conventional firearms. Even tasers could destroy vital systems? Maybe some kind of net shooting device? How would you train for zero-G combat? There is, as of yet, no martial arts for that.
It's all interesting to think about. I also wonder if, on the bright side, a Space Force would give some business to SpaceX or Blue Origin. That would be a helpful for their efforts.
So he wants to be a 'war president" and yet ends the Korean war, and works hard on bring peace to the region?
President Moon Jae-In had more to do with it than Donald. President Moon deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. Hell, even China had more to do with than Donald.
As its says in the book I'm currently readying, "You are as addled as an unhatched egg abandoned in the sun." An that is Truth.
Fully agreed!! Our goose is fucking cooked. Donald needs to be taken out one way or the other. And here I thought people were crying about Hillary being corrupt!! LOL!!
NASAâ(TM)s budget is a rounding error compared to the pentagon. Now the space program will have a line on some serious bucks.
Also CIA, NSA and the NRO. Also maybe some of the NASA stuff also. http://www.nro.gov/about/nro/w...
hmm... may be long term money saver if you only need slightly more the 1/3 the staff to maintain things, of coarse the problem is usually people getting what they need through 'proper channels' when this happens. I doubt anything will come of it, or at least they will likely not take over satellite operations.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Wow, the hypocrisy has no bounds when it's the GOP.
Mainly because, the Air Force, Navy and Army will continue to have satellites, and this will just add more. Take the air force for example. When the coast guard has to perform a search and rescue operation, do you think they call up the air force and ask to borrow a helicopter and a pilot? Do you think the Army does that? Navy? Marines? How about boats? Does everyone go to the Navy when they need a boat?
Consolidating 3x management resources into one is mind boggling expensive, how exactly?
So now every satellite can use the same design process as the F-35, so they can attempt to surpass it as the most expensive military boondoggle in history.
How do you defend your flank in space?
All Trump did with N. Korea is escalate the situation then deescalate it to the previous level.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
So what's the first legion named? Ultramarines? Blood angels? Imperial fists? Space wolves?
after about 4-6 years of this trade war your nation will be so strapped for cash and crap that you wont be able to launch a fire work....
haha go nuts spend all the money you can while you can
re-elect him i dare you.
Are the Japanese alright with the US raising and converting the Yamato for space travel? And don't we need to go to Mars to get the plans for the wave motion engine first?
"works hard"
We talking about the same guy here?
It sounds expensive.
Its consolidating what they are already doing in other branches so there is not really any new expenditures.
I may be mistaken but my recollection is that Congress was involved in splitting off the Air Force from the Army and creating a new armed service.
In any case, pray to God that Trump is not involved in the new uniform design.
Congress schmongress. I'm big and fat and I SHOUT LOUDEST.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You may wish to read the link you posted.
The President did not announce a plan to put nuclear weapons in space.
A space force is the perfect thing to create if you don't understand Physics!
You can go up, and if you have some fuel left over you can possibly do something else, then come back down.
If you decide to blow a few things up, it's Kessler Syndrome time!
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
That's the same thing that happened to me and my wife. There were some admittedly some good concessions made however ;)
How are we going to pay for it.. and does one country even own Space? Should this be a UN charter?
Consolidating 3x management resources into one is mind boggling expensive, how exactly?
Sure that sounds great but trump wants a "separate but equal" Air Force. Are you going to cut the Air Force in half or add a new one? One of those is mind mindbogglingly expensive and, you know, maybe something you should think about before you "declare" it to happen. Or not if this is just another one of his 10 dimensional moves to distract from our current psychological torture of children policy.
Take the air force for example. When the coast guard has to perform a search and rescue operation, do you think they call up the air force and ask to borrow a helicopter and a pilot?
Actually, depending on various factors (usually having to do with distance), they do exactly that. The Air Force can reach a lot of areas the Coast Guard can't.
Which is a brilliant way to look like you're getting shit done when the people who care have attention spans that give gnats a run for their money.
It will probably work the same way the Air Force was going to consolidate the airplanes......
You're right. And how about those three branches of government? That's a total waste, total. All they do is argue with me, I mean with each other. The American people elected me king, by a majority of 48% against 52.
Make America great again, like it was in 1775.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Does everyone go to the Navy when they need a boat?
Shouldn't they?
Why should we settle for gross inefficiency just because Army infantry want to make fun of the Chair Force and their air conditioned deployments? Or because the Chair Force is pretty confident that nine out of ten Marines prefer the refreshing taste of green crayons? Or that the Marines are pretty sure it's not gay if you're underway?
How much money is wasted because every goddamned branch wants to rule the land, sea, air and space?
You might wish to read the page you linked to, or at least its summary, at the top of the page. The President has not announced any plan or intent to put nuclear weapons in space.
> which forbids militarization of space?
It does no such thing. Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit?
The only enemy that we will fight on this Earth is the Great Devil.
For not falling our powers to the Great Devil, nuclear weapons must be dismantled before than the Great Devil.
By example, ICBMs and nuclear warheads must be dismantled before than the Great Devil returns to the Earth.
Contrary to these rules, the Great Devil will kill almost us as on the fire lake, the hell, etc..
If the humans don't make precautions then they will be part of the massive evil problem.
Separate but equal. Is there any subject he can't bring racism into?
Yeah you joke, but there is actually logic behind what he said. Contrary to the belief of some, the US Marine Corp is not part of the US Navy. The USMC and the USN are separate and equal armed forces, they happen to report to the same civilian department of the executive branch, the Department of the Navy. Now does DoN show some "favoritism" for the USN, arguable so. When you have to say "separate but equal" you know it is not in some practical sense.
So while technically separate and equal in the org chart sense, will the space force have its own civilian agency as the Air Force does, or will it have to share one as the Marine Corp does?
You're not hearing about "the treaties prohibiting militarization of space" because there are none.
There is a 1957 treaty about putting NUCLEAR weapons in space.
Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit?
Should read "King Trump", not "President Trump".
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
for Stargate Command?
> all those treaties prohibiting militarization of space
Which treaty is that, exactly? The 1957 treaty talks about putting NUCLEAR WEAPONS in space. The President has not announced any plan or intent to put nuclear weapons in space.
Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit? Or for that matter, ballistic missiles, which fly through space? There is no treaty prohibiting militarization of space.
For that matter the Army has its own aviation service, it's just statutorily limited to rotary aircraft.
Does it really make sense to tell the Army, "You can fly, but only using certain technologies."? Wouldn't it make sense to allow them to fly ground attack aircraft, just like the Marines do?
The Marines are not always allowed to fly a ground attack aircraft. For example they are not allowed to fly the A-10 despite the fact they would love to and the Air Force brass hates the A-10. The A-10 is not aircraft carrier capable so the Department of the Navy says no A-10 for you.
Everything will be fine.
This kind of stuff takes a lot of money. Is there any proof or compelling evidence that we *need* a space force separate from what our current military provides?
Its just something to give up when in negotiations with North Korea. Trump is just manufacturing perceptions for the upcoming bargaining.
Did not self proclaimed 'genius' Trump mandate that if you create new a regulation or new government body, you had to do away with two others?
ok, so one could be the executive branch, maybe the second DHS?
That's because US defense doesn't actually need a separate space force.
From its inception, the US space program has discreetly served US defense needs, along with its higher profile exploration and scientific missions. In addition, the Army, Navy and Air Force have quietly developed space commands and technologies, without creating the public perception that we're militarizing space.
There may be things that the US military services want from space that they don't have yet, but creating a separate space force doesn't get them those things. It's only value is political; it's just posturing for domestic consumption. And that posturing will have international consequences we won't like.
As soon as we create the perception that we're militarizing space, we'll start an open arms race with China. Russia too, but it's China we'll have to worry about. Russia will be making a killing transferring technology to countries that want to gain a military foothold in space for reasons of national prestige, and that'll spread ballistic missile technology all over the place too.
Space is a place where the status quo works in our favor; it's not indefinitely sustainable, but shaking up the status quo in space is about the dumbest thing we could do.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The one thing that actor president did was name his dreams well...
It's really about wresting control of those satellites from the deep state and shadow government goons that are in place at the various spying agencies, as well as their pawns in the airforce. (Those military aircraft crashes a couple of months ago were no accident. The other branches of the military are loyal to their CIC, thankfully.)
I want to know who tried to take out POTUS with that unannounced missile launch no one wants to report on.
Does everyone go to the Navy when they need a boat?
When they need a big boy boat, yes, they do.
Go Thunderbirds! Isn't that illegal Mr. Frump?
Mainly because, the Air Force, Navy and Army will continue to have satellites, and this will just add more. Take the air force for example. When the coast guard has to perform a search and rescue operation, do you think they call up the air force and ask to borrow a helicopter and a pilot? Do you think the Army does that? Navy? Marines? How about boats? Does everyone go to the Navy when they need a boat?
When the Army needs forward air cover, yes, they do indeed call the Navy for carrier based air support. If the Navy in turn needs strategic bombing, yes, they do indeed call the Air Force.
The point here is that now if any of them need satellite coverage, they would indeed call the Space Force (or whatever they call it).
If you think equal refers to size, you haven't thought it through very well.
Trumps' only motivation in anything he does is to feed his own ego. Everything else is secondary to that.
Trump absolutely escalated the situation, but the de-escalation is far below the "previous level".
The previous level included regular, albeit infrequent nuclear weapons tests and sabre rattling, which included rocks fired toward and even over Japan. The previous administration's response to all North Korean activity was to literally ignore it.
Trump, ignoring all of his inelegance, is the first US President to ever meet with a North Korean leader and, like it or not, he offered two very realistic outcomes to them:
1. Face annihilation in a war that they cannot hope to win with a people too starved to support a long war, let alone with the backing to do it (Kim didn't even fly on a North Korean plane to the meeting because they do not have one that can go that far!).
2. Open up and become a more traditional nation internationally, gaining the investment opportunities and thus money that that brings, while also giving up all nuclear ambitions, which should be easier since their testing site imploded.
That's a lot different than the "previous level".
How exactly did you get from consolidating satellite and other space based services to electing a king in 1775?
Yes, I'm sure you want to believe that but facts are facts. He's activity did lead to the formal ending of the Korean War. The South Korean president stated that much. Recommended him for a Nobel Peace Prize I believe. Trump has directly met with the North Korean leader, something no other president could or would do.
If he was a 'war president' all he had to do is sit back and let everything continue as it was and eventually he would have had a war without lifting a finger.
Now what I've stated is simply fact, and nothing any one of you people with TDS can say will change it. With that, this will be the last thing I say in this thread about this subject. I'm not even going to come back and ready any replies. Simply, arguing with you people over it is not worth my time.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
there was no launch from Whidby, that was an ambulance helicopter.... really
Probably the creating an entire new chain of command (hopefully they can take the example of the Marines and share a Secretary) with all the civilian and military leaders involved.
Consolidation might give some benefits, then again creating the air force didn't seem to stop the other branches from managing their own aircraft...
I think he wants to start one with Canada instead ;)
Mission failure? Then that would have been the CIA. Those idiots screw up everything they touch. Is it a requirement to be a total loser to join the CIA? It sure looks that way.
ahem, I think that you mean 'ship'
Korean war was never ended, only an armistice was reached.
It's been over for decades. Pretending otherwise is like pretending that the 7th Cavalry wasn't engaging in an act of terrorism.
Trump could have done better to completely ignore North Korea as the unimportant satrapy it really is.
I might point out that he in fact hasn't ended the Korean war. No peace treaty has been signed yet. In fact, nothing except a few very vaguely worded statements have come out of this yet. Let's see if North Korea really will give up their nukes. I'm not holding my breath.
Dammit, I miss Reagan. I didn't agree with him most of the time, but I could respect him. Today the conservatives in power seem to be mimeographed copies of copies of such that the end result is smudged and incoherent and totally unlike the original.
"Separate but equal" means one branch will be getting hand-me-down textbooks and asbestos infused ceilings.
That sounds like a fun MST3K episode, but we should have a cooler name. Like "Earth Team Tiger Squad" or "Flying Explosion Battle Brigade"
The Air Force has cars, the Navy has cars, the Army has cars. Do you think we should be combining the management of these assets into one combined "Car Force"?
Adding an additional service would result in redundant organizational resources, redundant training resources, and redundant facilities. It would further divide the armed forces skilled talent pool.
And what would you do with low-skill recruits in the Space Force? There are only so many space complex front gates to stand guard at. What are they going to do; stand guard in a cleanroom and ruin a billion dollars in satellite hardware the first time they discharge their sidearm?
---
I bet Car Force One would be a bitchin' ride...
No! They are not illegal! Why are they illegal?
The aliens will be welcome to the Earth. The only country that makes them illegal is U.S.A.
The Earth is not the owner of U.S.A. So that U.S.A. did fail its claim.
The "space wall" that U.S.A. wants to build for aliens and paid by aliens is very irresponsible and dishonored.
Whichever nation is the first to militarize space will be able to drop rocks on any other launch facilities and maintain space dominance. Whoever controls space controls the planet. Collect and drop rocks from orbiting space stations or Lagrange point stations. Delta-v propulsion robots could change the orbit of asteroids between Mars and Jupiter to collide with enemies. We could mass produce such robots on a Ceres military base and have them seek out every asteroid in the belt around the right size to weaponize. Or a military base on the moon could launch rock after rock after rock at targets on earth as in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
Imagine say 50,000 weaponized asteroids in the belt just waiting for the right command. A hydrogen bomb can destroy a city, but a properly aimed asteroid or swarm of asteroids can destroy entire countries or even continents. It really is the next logical step for strategic weapons. Probably you'd want to get the orbits pretty close to earth so that you could change their orbits to collide with less notice. I could imagine entire wars fought solely from the asteroid belt. No need for soldiers or even armed robots on earth when you can just redirect asteroids from the belt and wait a few months. Coastal cities could be tsunamied. Conventional military forces would be no match for the elite space cadets in the space force.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
hillary and cnn will find a way to complain....
It sounds more like giving more money to those deep state goons to make them happy.
Trump absolutely escalated the situation, but the de-escalation is far below the "previous level".
The previous level included regular, albeit infrequent nuclear weapons tests and sabre rattling, which included rocks fired toward and even over Japan. The previous administration's response to all North Korean activity was to literally ignore it.
All of those tests were part of a program to get effective reliable Nukes and long range missiles.
They didn't stop the tests because Trump scared them, they stopped the tests because they got their Nukes and missiles working.
I'm not saying another President could have avoided that, but Trump's threats and bluster didn't avoid anything.
Trump, ignoring all of his inelegance, is the first US President to ever meet with a North Korean leader
Which has been a major NK objective forever. Something Trump should have gotten concessions for (recall the GOP scorn and outrage when Obama suggested he could meet without preconditions).
and, like it or not, he offered two very realistic outcomes to them:
1. Face annihilation in a war that they cannot hope to win with a people too starved to support a long war, let alone with the backing to do it (Kim didn't even fly on a North Korean plane to the meeting because they do not have one that can go that far!).
2. Open up and become a more traditional nation internationally, gaining the investment opportunities and thus money that that brings, while also giving up all nuclear ambitions, which should be easier since their testing site imploded.
That's a lot different than the "previous level".
It's the game NK has played forever, work on your Nukes and endure the rising tensions and sanctions. Then play nice and talk up peace and denuclearization in return for sanctions relief.
I'm sure the same thing will happen again, Kim will say all the right things and get whatever relief he can, up until he thinks his defensive capabilities are falling behind and then he'll start testing again.
I stole this Sig
Woah there cowboy... I think someone took one too many patented Infowars Brain Force Alpha Power Tabs this morning!
God forbid we push the limits of technology to stay ahead of our enemies huh?
Somehow, judging by a lot of the comments, the words Separate but equal just flew right by you guys. His use of the phrase is, I feel, worthy of note and discussion. Also, without Congressional action, this is going to go precisely nowhere. Might as well call it FETCH, cuz it is not going to happen.
Not at all, he just wants the new Space Force to have to sit in the back of the bus and drink from its own water fountains.
May I suggest watching a little less Alex Jones?
Somehow, judging by a lot of the comments, the words “Separate but equal...” just flew right by you guys. His use of the phrase is, I feel, worthy of note and discussion. Also, without Congressional action, this is going to go precisely nowhere. Might as well call it FETCH, cuz it is not going to happen.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
he also formally recognized Kim Jun Un's dictatorship as the legitimate ruler of N. Korea (something they'd been trying to get America to do for decades going back to when his dad was in charge) and made comments (largely ignored by the press) that he wants to see Americans stand in attention just like N. Koreans do for Kim; moving the Overton window substantially towards Authoritarianism in America.
He didn't return things to the previous level. He left them much, much worse.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
He's always wanted to be above all the other space cadets. Here's a picture from his youth.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
More libtard mental gymnastics.
If he hadn't played the games he did. We wouldn't be where we are now.
Trump was a catalyst for getting Rocket Boy to actually come to the table.
So now the Army, Navy, Air Force AND Space Force will all have satellites.
Space Balls, general Barf reporting for duty.
The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots.
Shhhh, he's still listening to his punk rock records from the early 80s.
The Air Force has cars, the Navy has cars, the Army has cars. Do you think we should be combining the management of these assets into one combined "Car Force"?
I find straw man arguments quite entertaining; keep up the good work.
Barry Obama failed to end the war in Iraq. Failed to end the war in Afghanistan. Failed to end the war in Korea. Failed to close Guantanamo. But President Trump can! God bless President Trump.
Um.. Let's be fair here.. Obama did end the Iraq war by packing up and coming home, regardless of the consequences... Also, how you blame Korea on him is beyond me, he was just continuing the "active strategic disengagement" approach with Kimmy boy.
The rest is for his voters to complain about. I figured his promises where empty on those fronts so I didn't expect he'd deliver and he didn't disappoint.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Yes, I'm sure you want to believe that but facts are facts.
Facts are slippery things that can be turned around with ease.
He's activity did lead to the formal ending of the Korean War. The South Korean president stated that much.
Poor thingies you doesn't realize the Korean War has been over for decades. A treaty is meaningless. The South Korean president told Trump to shut the fuck up, and reminded him that there was no war, no reason to start a war, and begged him to stop playing games.
Recommended him for a Nobel Peace Prize I believe.
Sarcasm isn't your strong point, eh? Too bad you forgot your scorn for the Nobel prize when Obama won it as soon as the idea that Trump might get it was floated.
In reality, the Norwegians are hoping Trump dies so they can vote every other living person instead.
Trump has directly met with the North Korean leader, something no other president could or would do.
Good for them. Bad for the GOP that would have a collective shitfit had anybody else dared to suggest the idea, let alone one who promised a brutal dictator his love and affection.
Which Trump did, and suddenly the right-wing is ok with it.
If he was a 'war president' all he had to do is sit back and let everything continue as it was and eventually he would have had a war without lifting a finger.
Nope. He really tried to start a war, which is what he had to do since nobody else was going to fight. In fact, they were so disinterested, they literally told him to shut the fuck up in the Oval Office.
He still wants a war, of course. Probably Iran. Maybe Guam or Puerto Rico though.
Now what I've stated is simply fact, and nothing any one of you people with TDS can say will change it.
Yes, yes, your TRD is so strong you cannot be swayed, your mind is closed, and thus you praise Trump for winning the war with EastAsia.
All praise Trump. None shall disparage Trump and live.
With that, this will be the last thing I say in this thread about this subject. I'm not even going to come back and ready any replies.
Translation: you are making me uncomfortable so I will go to my safe space, close my eyes and ears, and pout.
Simply, arguing with you people over it is not worth my time.
Yes, your time would be better spent informing yourself.
And exactly which of those 17 articles do YOU think prohibits SDI, ballistic missiles which fly through space, and our hundreds of currently orbiting military satellites?
You did at least glance at what your own link says this time, before saying more dumb shit, right?
This is merely taking existing military space activities and consolidating them into a single, independent branch. Things like the GPS system, the large network of military satellites, communication networks, orbital asset and debris tracking, etc. This is an idea that's been debated for years prior to the Trump administration. The main reason is that people were concerned that the US Air Force was so focused on the traditional air superiority and strategic defense missions that they would not be able to properly focus on the space missions. Assets were also spread out among the different services. Therefore, instead of it being the second, less sexy job of an existing service, take all that into a single set of professionals focused on all things space.
The Air Force hates this idea of course, as it takes away their turf (budget, assets). However, the irony is that the Air Force was created under similar circumstances, when people argued that the US Army shouldn't be working space superiority and nuclear deterrence missions.
Who the hell are we fighting in outer space? Martians? Aliens? Space junk?
What enemy will the space force fight? Rosewell creatures? Or perhaps Mars rover discovered bacteria in the soil and it is urgent to prepare for an interplanetary fight against them?
Keep up. Alex Jones (I bet you don't even know his former persona, whose death was faked) is a tool of the deep state.
True Patriots trust Q, Sessions, Kansas, POTUS, and The Plan.
This move must piss of so many people, quite a few with actual power. I guess the Donald is really, really desperate for some "good" news. But he need not worry, the fuckups will continue to cheer him onward, regardless of what stupid things he does. By now, the only reliable way to end his presidency is probably him nuking the worls, because the american nation has surely proven itself incapable of doing anything about this walking catastrophe.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
"The Enterprise is ready, sir." -- Scotty
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
The navy helped out at Fukushima, I think if we had a disaster on a similar scale they would help out the Coast Guard.
love is just extroverted narcissism
1/3 the staff?? You don't understand how the gov't giant works. At least 2x, imho
And we can do it all on the taxpayer's dime and eventually privatize it!
A true conservative wet dream.
would make the U.S. look even worse on the world stage than it already does because of the current administration.
Sorry to break it to you, but this is highly unlikely.
Speaking as an outside observer to the rest of the world, you can't sink much lower at this point. We've stopped being surprised by anything he does. At all. We read the news, sigh, shake our heads a bit, but we're not shocked anymore. And we're too tired of it all to be outraged.
I don't think it's possible for the world's opinion of the US to sink any lower. Seriously. If Trump walked in the the UN chamber and took a dump directly on the Secretary-General's desk, we'd probably consider it a high water mark in the US-World relations.
What the Hell does this have to do with Reagan? He was a Conservative and a Republican. A real one.
By today's Republican standards Reagan would be a RINO.
Last time space exploration was about national security, we actually went to the moon. When the Cold War ended the space missions all but ended.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
But Trump probably had dementia too! You should love him!
Ok, For what egomaniacal reason Trump is doing this is beyond me
It is called a pivot. Every time something outrageous comes out of the Trump administration (this time separating children from illegal immigrants), Trump changes the conversation and the media coverage.
Remember "shit holes" or "pussy grabbing"? (the list goes on) Of course not, because our collective attention spans are less than those of goldfish. The brain-dead media eat this up.
What a retarded non-analysis. None of that is true really.
It sounds like Hognoxious was channelling your POTUS with his incoherent & run-on ramblings, but that's just an outsiders view.
It is required - by law - that the name of this organization always be pronounced: "SPAAAAACCCCCCE FOOOOORRRRRCCCCCE!"
Any other pronunciation would be criminalized.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
It's not April, bitch. Fake news.
Rather than the US Space Force being a purely military organization, it would make sense to have a Space Force structured like, and with similar missions as, the US Coast Guard. As people and businesses move into space, we're going to NEED some sort of spaceborne Search and Rescue organization, perhaps with vessel inspection capabilities and missions. Perhaps the Space Force can be tasked with inspecting commercial spacecraft and satellites and ensuring that they aren't hiding military equipment.
And in the event of hostilities, the Space Force would, similar to the Coast Guard, become part of the Navy.
If you're too lazy to read the page you're linking to, at least read the URL itself that you copy/pasted. See that word right after ".org"? It says "nuclear-weapons". It doesn't say "military". Why? Because it doesn't ban military use of space. In fact, the treaty explicitly allows stationing military personnel in space. Anyway, here's a bit of what you would have found if you'd read the page before linking to it:
--
it does not prohibit missile-borne WMD from transiting space [ballistic missiles are space rockets] or weapons other than WMD being placed in space orbit and used to attack targets in space or on Earth.
There is no ban on air- ground, or conventional space-based anti-satellite or anti-missile weapons.
--
Holy shit. You're like a crazy person, aren't you?
Anyone who uses the phrase True Patriots has less functioning brain cells than it has words.
Not that I disagree with your conclusions (much), but ...
> don't gain much in utility over land based weapons and take up a lot of energy for initial launch
Conveniently, the keep that energy, as potential energy, and that energy can stored virtually forever before being converted into militarily effective energy by simply letting it fall. A simple, inert metal rod would deliver the same energy as a small atomic bomb. Flying at double-digit Mach numbers, it would hit the target very quickly, leaving little reaction time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
> It's just far easier to launch a big rocket from the surface and let it go ballistic to the target.
As you may know, intercontinental ballistic missiles fly through space anyway. So you have the same "energy for launch" and all. The question is "might it be better to have it halfway there ahead of time"? It reduces the warning time the target has by at least 10-15 minutes - minutes that they could spend launching missiles back at you. I say "at least" because an ICBM launch and flight is probably quite a bit easier to reliably detect than releasing a rod is.
> As I recall dropping something from orbit only shortens the time to target if it's already above the target when needed.
Since it starts out going roughly orbital speed, it won't drop straight down - not even close. If fired straight down, at 10,000 km/h, the orbital vector would mean it would circle the earth approximately once on its way down (air resistance makes this calculation difficult). You can fire from any location in orbit and have it hit anywhere you want on the plane, by adjusting the speed or angle at which you fire the de-orbit thrust.
> A nation like Russia or China would not only consider a geo-stationary weapons platform over their heads as provocative they might just find a way to arrange an "accidental" collision with one of their satellites to kill it
If Russia or China knew that the geo-stationary communication satellites above the US also contain tungsten rods aimed at them, they'd be pretty pissed. They don't know that those rods are on the satellites. I don't know that those rods AREN'T on the satellites.
We've been at the table with them many times. Insert yawn here.
We could have gotten to the exact same point where we are now without any of Trump's puerile rhetoric.
Coming to the table, one-on-one, appearing on the world stage as an equal, was exactly what Dear Leader wanted. The Great Negotiator gave him that in exchange for basically nothing.
Upon further reflection, strike the part about "it would circle the earth approximately once". It would be considerably less than full orbit, but easily several thousand miles. Of course, the satellite carrying the rod need not be in geosynchronous orbit. As I recall, ISS orbits the earth every 90 minutes, and many satellites are in similar orbits.
I believe US satellites overfly China many times per day. Which is those may have a tungsten rod or two tucked in amongst their other equipment I don't know. Probably none, but they're going 18,000 miles per hour, so I can't look at them with my telescope. They move much too fast.
He's activity did lead to the formal ending of the Korean War.
A peace treaty is being discussed. The formal ending comes when the treaty is signed.
Trump has directly met with the North Korean leader, something no other president could or would do.
No President was stupid enough to give the North Korean leader what he wanted and get nothing of substance in return.
Now what I've stated is simply fact [...] Simply, arguing with you people over it is not worth my time.
I bet you were brilliant on the high school debate team. We shall see whether you can resist the temptation to post more farcical inanities.
Nearly posted 'Starshit Troopers'. Do you want to know more?
On y va, qui mal y pense!
I doubt he had anything to do with the de-escalation. Kim is an asshole, but he is not an idiot. He did that.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
he's going to get the space mexicans to pay for it
or heâ(TM)s asking to for voltron?
[1] Most astronauts of ALL nations are current/former military
[2] Most launch vehicles are either "civilian" ballistic missiles or (like the shuttle) were designed as civilian vehicles that would meet the needs of the military if/when needed.
[3] Most space faring nations are already capable of military actions in space.
[a] The Americans and Chinese have both demonstrated the ability to shoot down satellites using air-launched missiles.
[b] The Soviet Union actually launched a space battle platform called Polyus on the Energia rocket in the late 1980s
That whole "peaceful uses of space" treaty was a pile of goofy PR claptrap back when it was signed by a combination of nations who were never going to be capable in space and nations who would never actually cripple their own security that way - it was just designed to make morons around the world feel better.
It's just like the global warming treaties - the politicians love to sign them and get good PR waving them in front of their dumber followers, but when hard national interests are involved they ignore the treaty and assume nobody will notice (but they scream if somebody they dislike similaryl violates).
Where do find the Vulcans to be science officers?
So actual science is a waste of millions by NASA when putting guns in space is fine. This guy...
You do not want to consolidate all state power into one strictly hierarchical, streamlined, super effective and efficient top-down oriented power structure.
You may think you do, but that is probably the result of believing humans to be more moral, more good and more self-restraining than they actually are. *Never* streamline too much state power into one organization because no matter how well and benevolent the organization is today - if it acquires power, it will corrupt its leaders.
No matter who is president, never give any of them a power structure that you wouldn't want to give your worst political opponent.
If you are a fan of Obama, remember that any power you were OK with giving him is now under the control of Trump.
If you are a fan of Trump, remember that whatever power is granted to him now will after two terms be under the control of someone else in the near or far future, possibly someone worse than Hillary.
So not build huge power structures, hmmmkay?
and, like it or not, he offered two very realistic outcomes to them:
1. Face annihilation in a war that they cannot hope to win with a people too starved to support a long war, let alone with the backing to do it (Kim didn't even fly on a North Korean plane to the meeting because they do not have one that can go that far!).
2. Open up and become a more traditional nation internationally, gaining the investment opportunities and thus money that that brings, while also giving up all nuclear ambitions, which should be easier since their testing site imploded.
That's a lot different than the "previous level".
Sure, only if you ignore the several other previous levels that have happened before. We've heard it all before. Promises were made, vauge language was exchanged, the only difference is in the past no Americans saluted North Korean generals or praised dictators while telling their closest allies they have a "special place in hell".
Wait, it is a lot different than the "previous level". Along with not improving anything among enemies we've taken a major step backwards with allies. Hurrah!
I believe it is being named 'The Alan Parsons Project'.
They didn't stop the tests because Trump scared them, they stopped the tests because they got their Nukes and missiles working.
I'm not saying another President could have avoided that, but Trump's threats and bluster didn't avoid anything.
They stopped their testing because they got scared, increased their testing too quickly, and imploded their test site. This further scared Kim.
The Air Force has cars, the Navy has cars, the Army has cars. Do you think we should be combining the management of these assets into one combined "Car Force"?
I find straw man arguments quite entertaining; keep up the good work.
No straws found in the grand parent post. It was right on target. Let me continue:
The army has air planes, the navy has air planes, the marines has air planes. Why are they not all in the air force?
Having another space force (on top of the existing one called NASA) would not eliminate the various military branches from having their own agendas and needs leading to overlap, thus arguing that because they have it there is a need is also pointless.
If the earth were a point mass with no atmosphere, then yes one would need cancel the orbital velocity in order to allow the object to simply fall.
The point mass approximation is important and useful because it's used for determining the orbit of orbiting bodies. It fails completely when you talk about de-orbit from LEO. IIS is 254 miles above the earth, which 8,000 miles across. Meaning from LEO earth is nothing like a far off point, it fills the entire downward side of your view, much like it does when you view the earth from 50 feet up. It's very much not a point mass. The illustrations in this xkcd make the point clear (the author is a former NASA physicist):
https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
Having that out of the way, let's look at de-orbiting from LEO, which is orbit in the upper atmosphere (thermosphere). We know that in space, there is no air resistance, so if you fire a projectile it will keep going forever until it hits something. The range of a .22 gun, fired in space, is approximately infinite.
We also know that the lower the orbit, the faster it has to be, in order to move sideways fast enough to turn the downward fall into a arc around the mass. As you mentioned, to orbit at LEO, you have to go extremely fast. If you go a little too slow, you'll fall slightly, which will put you at an altitude which requires higher velocity for orbit. You'll then be even more deficient in orbital velocity for the lower orbit, which will cause you to fall faster, spiraling downward in a vicious cycle. In other words, getting to orbit is hard. If you fail to do the hard thing (orbit), you de-orbit. Meaning de-orbit is easy - just slow down a little bit and let gravity take make over.
Once you get to about 50-80 miles above the earth, you run into air resistance, which slows you pretty quickly. Remember the more your orbital speed is reduced, the faster you fall (technically, the more you fail to counteract the fall with sideways motion).
So from LEO at 254 miles, we can de-orbit in two different ways, or both at the same time. If we're used to thinking of the earth as a point mass, we can fire our projectile retrograde to slow it down a bit. That'll mean it's no longer at the correct orbital velocity, and will gradually spiral down. If we notice that earth's (denser) atmosphere is only 200 miles away, we can fire at it. US ships have guns that can fire *through air* sixty miles. Our pistol can fire a million miles through space. Traversing the 200 miles of space to get to air below isn't terribly difficult.
Read Volume 2 of 'There Will Be War' by Pournelle. Lots of analysis about how SDI forced the Soviets into an aggressive arms race that they couldn't fund.
Riiight. And all they discussed on the tarmac was the grandchildren.
The army has air planes, the navy has air planes, the marines has air planes. Why are they not all in the air force?
I'll assume you're not being obtuse and answer your question: the flowchart for this is fairly straightforward...
For aircraft model X:
1) Does the Army have a mission specific need to directly support Army operations with this model? If yes, assign to Army use.
2) Does the Navy have a mission specific need to directly support Navy operations with this model? If yes, assign to Navy use.
3) In addition to yes or no to the above, does US military have a global strategic or battlefield operations need for this model outside of directly supporting Army and Navy operations and/or would answering yes to both above offer savings in consolidation? If yes, assign to Air Force.
Apply the above flowchart to satellite and other space based military assets with #3 being theoretical Space Force. If #3 has a significant number of Yes, consider creation of Space Force.
Health care? Nah. Education? Nah... Vet support? Nah. Social assistance? Nope. LET'S MAKE A FUCKING ELITE SPACE FORCE TEAM! TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!
The US already has a military agency doing space things. It is called NASA. The other military branches still felt the need to work around it. Adding another superflous branch of the government is just adding more bureacracy and graft.
Another attempt to sneak in an infinitely large, growing spy state based in near earth orbit
NASA has never been a military branch.
Abrogating treaties works both ways.
The secret space force and extraterrestrial presence has been known for years. Are they getting ready to acknowledge their presence? https://www.exopolitics.org/tr...
I see your definition of "fact" has been eroded, I wonder what the cause could be.
If he sat back and did nothing, there would be no war because that's the way it has been for the past 60 years.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Will they sit on their asses to wait a few hundred years until the debris de-orbits? Our first war in space will be our last one for a long, long time.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It sounds like a creation of a child with small hands and a gonzo imagination, unfettered by adult responsibilities and constraints.
In the real world, the name was was set by a child with small hands and a gonzo... oh right.
This will certainly make the Universe large again.
Expensive? Only if the new force will be equipped with new spacecraft.
"I hear the first job of the Space Force will be to build a really, really big wall to keep the green people out."
And get the Martians to pay for it! With as much success and credibility, I would add.
Traversing the 200 miles of space to get to air below isn't terribly difficult.
Of course not. But you still have 3 problems:
a) hitting something
b) preventing the projectile from melting up
c) keeping your "satellite" 'somewhere' at the same orbit
Thank you for the long post, but hint: I'm a physicist my self. Rods from sky are nice in SciFy, but no were close to reality.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I guess the Army can get, and likely already has, a small "space force" of its own.
Well, there's the Army Space and Missile Defense Command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Space is much like air. You drop things from it that impact the ground.
To be more accurate, you can deorbit things, which is a lot more difficult than dropping things -- and that is referred to as kinetic bombardment.
But there is not a big push to develop this kind of capability; and that would not change if a space-centric branch of the military is created.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
This isn't a strawman argument, it's Reductio Ad Absurdum.
All due respect to the General.
Take off, every Hoser
There are many bases around the world where the military keeps weapons and people. The Air Force can bring long range bombers on target carrying conventional weapons. The Navy has carriers and submarines with conventional weapons positioned all around the world.
There are up to seven US carriers at sea at any given time, each carrying FA-18s with a combat radius of 380 miles. Some are enroute, some are near hot spots. That gives the US the ability to strike *those* few places quickly. At a top speed of around 35 mph, they don't go somewhere else very fast. http://www.businessinsider.com... Included in the carrier battle groups are those submarines you mentioned. There are more submarines, mostly Los Angeles class. They stay submerged for about seven weeks at a time, listening to low frequency command transmissions at a rate of twelve characters per hour. The Los Angeles class has a top speed of 23mph and carries carries Tomahawk cruise missiles with a range of 800-1500 miles. This covers a lot more area than the carrier groups. Air Expeditionary Groups can deploy with 48 hours.
I'm sure the 130 US and South Korean troops killed in active combat since the armistice started are happy to know that the war has been over for years.
That was an interesting post, thank you.
Certainly the long range cruise missiles, such as the Tomahawk block IV with a range of 900 nautical miles, are a significant asset. That's what I always think of when people talk about military use of drones in an attack role - we've been using them heavily for a long, long time. The Tomahawk was developed in the 1970s. For attack, it's much better than a quadcopter in almost every conceivable way.
If this doesn't in some way resemble the Thunderbirds, I will be sad.
Since he can't get Faux News in every country, he's been watching Animated Documentaries on foreign cable.
We call them Cartoons.
Wait until he sees VOLTRON. He'll want a force of FIVE mini-lion robots that come together to make ONE GIANT ROBOT.
Yes, please trust Q! My friends and I that run that account LOVE your support! You've made us a LOT of money that goes directly to funding far left efforts to remove Trump :)