Trump Endorses Permanent Daylight Savings Time (thehill.com)

President Trump on Monday threw his support behind efforts to keep the United States permanently on daylight saving time, which took effect Sunday morning. "Making Daylight Saving Time permanent is O.K. with me!" Trump tweeted. The Hill reports: California and several other states are considering measures that would end the biannual clock changes between standard and daylight saving time. Three GOP lawmakers from Florida introduced legislation in Congress this month that would end the November clock change from daylight saving time back to standard time. The measures, introduced by Sens. Marco Rubio and Rick Scott and Rep. Vern Buchanan, would keep the country in daylight saving time, the clock change made in early March that is observed by most states for eight months of the year. Rubio introduced a similar measure in 2018. That bill did not advance in the Senate.

Comments

Just pick a damned time

[Snotnose]

I don't care if it's DST or standard, just quit changing the damn thing twice a year. Myself, I prefer it getting darker later, whichever one that is. But I don't care enough to change my damned sleep cycle twice a year.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Mmm no.. in the south you need to get up with sunrise anyway, because the sunset is the hottest part of the day. In the north, the sunlight in the winter is so short that you will go to work at dark and leave work at dark. Staying in permanent offset is idiotic

Re:Just pick a damned time

[supremebob]

I never really understood why we "fell back" to standard time during winter, the one time of the year where the extra hour of daylight in the evening was the most useful.

Daylight until 8:30 PM during Summer never seemed all that helpful, but daylight when you're trying to drive home from work around 5:30? Now THAT is useful!

Yeah, sure... It would be better yet if management left everyone leave at 4 PM during Winter to improve their commutes, but we all know that's not going to happen in most organizations.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Rick Schumann]

DST was originally to benefit farmers whose workday was dictated by daylight hours. Since that's not an issue anymore we don't need DST.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[rahvin112]

Because daylight earlier in the morning helps people wake up. I know it helps me.

Permanent day light savings time would be fine with me though. But congress is the only one that can change it. Individual states can't.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would farmers care what time the clock showed?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Beeftopia]

A more "colorful" history of DST:

At some point in elementary school, many American children learn that Daylight Saving Time was originally intended to give farmers an extra hour of light to work the fields.

That is, in fact, a lie.

Farmers actually hated the practice, because it cut an hour of daylight in the morning, leaving them with an hour less to get goods to market, according to Michael Downing, author of the book Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time. In reality, the extra hour of evening daylight was good for one thing: selling products. ...

Specifically we have the candy lobby, the barbecue lobby, and the golf ball lobby to thank for modern American Daylight Saving Time. But we’ll get to that in a second.

And another article, from Smithsonian magazine.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[angel'o'sphere]

No, the idea was to save electricity, as in switching on lights later etc.
For farmers it does not matter at all, they don't care what time is displayed on their watch.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[0100010001010011]

I grew up in Indiana (when they didn't observe) and it was glorious. The only thing we ever noticed was that all our summer TV shows were 'central time'.

This whole twice a year thing is jarring. We ate dinner at 9 tonight because we're used to looking outside to judge when to start stuff.

Plus all the studies of morbidity in hospitals and traffic accidents.

Daylight-saving time is literally killing us

But each year on the Monday after the springtime switch, hospitals report a 24% spike in heart-attack visits around the US.

Then again, I'm sort of a diehard UTC person. College caught me that who cares what time you wake up on the clock. Especially with the global economy I know business meetings across 4 timezones and all their nuances would go a lot smoother if we just set UTC meeting times.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Because I for one don't like going to work in the dark.

Coming home in the dark, that I don't mind. It's no different from if I'd been out with friends after work. But going out in the dark? That's just depressing.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[magarity]

DST was originally to benefit farmers whose workday was dictated by daylight hours. Since that's not an issue anymore we don't need DST.

You've confused DST with traditional long summer break school year calendars.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[LynnwoodRooster]

Then explain Arizona - no DST. Or Hawaii - no DST. States can opt-out if they want.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[magarity]

Then again, I'm sort of a diehard UTC person. College caught me that who cares what time you wake up on the clock. Especially with the global economy I know business meetings across 4 timezones and all their nuances would go a lot smoother if we just set UTC meeting times.

China has all one time zone - it's rather strange to fly west 4 hours and not change your watch. And the sun comes up at 3 am. Although their mentality about it is that Beijing is the center of their universe so everyone is on that city's time.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

And I live in Arizona and what the clock says has absolutely no meaning anyway. If you have to do something outside you do it at sunrise. if you want to have a been and hike, you just go out when you feel like it. The length of a daylight in a day does not change, regardless if the sun rises at 4am, 9pm or whatever the lazy drug addicts want the clock to show. If you want a longer day, move to a polar circle. .

Re:Just pick a damned time

[XanC]

They can opt out, but they can't go for permanent DST without Congressional approval.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[mark-t]

Daylight until 8:30 PM during Summer never seemed all that helpful, but daylight when you're trying to drive home from work around 5:30? Now THAT is useful!

Not nearly as useful as having exposure to at least *some* sunlight in the morning before a person start's their work day. While it's true that many people begin their commute while it is still dark in the winter, a *vast* majority of them still get to experience at least some sunlight before heading indoors at the end of their commute. Exposure to even just 15 minutes of sunlight in the morning boosts seratonin levels, which in turn boosts melatonin production in the evening and is vital for having healthy and restful sleep... delaying exposure to sunlight until later in the day does not boost seratonin levels as high as it will in the morning and further delays melatonin production, leading to health problems related to the lack of restful sleep. You're talking about a "nice to have", but comparing it to something that we are biologically adapted to, which is to function primarily during the day.... well, as I've said before on this subject, evolution is not a democracy.

And while you wouldn't get the sudden chaos that changing the clocks twice per year brings, instead slowly ramping up and then slowly ramping down throughout the winter, but keeping the clocks pushed ahead through the winter months would be certainly disasterous for a period of about 3 to 4 weeks in the middle of winter for people who live north of about 45 degrees, which while not a majority of Americans, is still not a small a number.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Miamicanes]

Morning traffic is naturally spread across a 3-5 hour window of time. In contrast, when DST ends, EVERYBODY (statistically) goes running for the door between 4:30 and 5:30pm, causing INSTANT gridlock that persists for hours.

It's particularly graphic in South Florida. In the summer, people without kids tend to work later, avoiding the instant 5pm gridlock that happens during the winter.

Think of it as time-domain multiplexing for freeways. If everyone on a cellular network tries to transfer a megabyte at 5pm, the network grinds to a halt and NOBODY'S data gets through. Stagger that same megabyte over a longer interval of time, and data gets through. When the sun sets early, it induces people to all hit the roads at once.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[dryeo]

Why can't the individual States decide? Here, in Canada, it is a Provincial decision. Shit there's currently a private members bill in my Provinces legislature to create a new time zone splitting the Province, and it could pass and officially we'll follow the Western States decision to stay in sync according to the government.
Probably have to give the feds notice though as they're in charge of stuff like ships and railroads.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[yorgasor]

They never did. They get up when the animals do or when the fields need taking care of. They couldn't care less what the clock says.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Aighearach]

No, the idea was to save electricity, as in switching on lights later etc.

The idea was to save the whales, as in lamp oil, or I mean, at least, to save money on candles and lamp oil.

You were at least right that light was involved, so you're ahead of the curve.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Aighearach]

While I agree changing the clock is stupid and lame, the "killing people" part is a bit iffy.

The statistic presented sets off my BS detector, because who cares about a 1 day spike? What people actually care about is if more heart attacks happened than would have happened otherwise. So when they give you the statistic about same-day admissions and things, it seems to imply that they didn't have the better stat; an actual increase in total heart attacks.

So lets say that some people with heart disease are really close to heart failure, and a small change in their stress level causes a heart attack; is that a temporary condition? Or does the progression of the disease mean that they'll be in the same dire straights next week, and the week after, and will probably die soon? That isn't really a big public health issue. And the total numbers that month don't even change.

OTOH, if it was an increased chance of heart attack across the board, then it wouldn't be followed by a week with less heart attacks; the numbers per month would also be higher, and there would have been more total deaths. That would be a bigger deal; and if they had studies that showed that, they'd lead with that one, not the other one.

So maybe, but probably not really. You're also more likely to have a heart attack during or after exercise, and yet, if you exercise your total risk usually goes down, not up.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[acrimonious howard]

DST was originally to benefit farmers whose workday was dictated by daylight hours.

Surprisingly, nope. Farmers were vociferously against DST for a long time. Apparently, their intense opposition got them associated with it.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[BytePusher]

My interpretation was that it was always about giving your employer the best hours of your day.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I come visit you in binary world sometime, where people live either on the southern or northern border and the season is either the heart of summer or the deep of winter.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[houghi]

I was thinking about the times you stated an then realized that the whole of the US is more south than Europe.

So in summer it is light for a few more hours in many places.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[dunkelfalke]

By the time DST was introduced (during WW1) oil lamps long switched to kerosene (probably even in Dunwall), and electric light was already common enough in the cities.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Erik Hensema]

Darker later = get up earlier. It that what you want?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[e3m4n]

They spring forward to ‘save’ daylight because otherwise sunrise would be 4:30AM. I dont get why everyone is such a pussy about the whole thing. Try going on a WestPac deployment. We changed times more than 24times in 6mos. Go across the internatiomal date line and see how far off that throws you. Being the navy, they never gave you that extra hour during sleep. It was always lose an hour at night and gain an hour during ships working hours (0600 - 1600). With our current timechanges, If I’m losing an hour of sleep then I just go to bed earlier as of the time had already changed. But it does happen on Sunday so if I’m still tired I sleep in. As long as I get six hours of sleep it doesn’t matter what the clock on the wall really says

Re:Just pick a damned time

[MemoryDragon]

Europe is ditching the DST switching as well, there was a public EU wide poll which apparently went 80% or more in favor of dropping the time shifting (but have in mind 70% of all votes came from central europe which was affected most by the constant time shifting lightwise and hated it most)
So in the end we will drop it around 2020/21 over here, but it is not yet clear if france and spain for instance will move into the GMT timezone because they were in the wrong timezone anyway (for business reasons) and keeping a permanent DST might be painful for them.
Thats the hard part to figure out and agree on. The worst which can happen is a tapestry of timezones instead of clear border lines.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there's literally a federal law about it. A state can choose to adhere to the federal time change rules or can remain on standard time year around. What they can't do is stay on daylight savings time year around.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[RKThoadan]

If a state wishes to observe DST they must do so on the Federal schedule. A state can choose to stay on standard time without any federal approval. The quirk here is that these states are wanting to be on DST year-round, which means they are observing DST off the federal schedule, so they actually do need approval for that. If a state lies in multiple time zones they can actually split the policy by zone. Indiana did this for a while.

Here's wikipedia on the relevant law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Just pick a damned time

[cascadingstylesheet]

Why would farmers care what time the clock showed?

Yeah, "but farmers" always struck me as a bizarre argument.

What, the cows won't be ready to be milked unless their clock matches yours? It never made any sense.

It's hard to think of another profession except maybe "hermit author" that is less affected by other people's clocks.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump may he an idiot, and I may dislike him for a lot of reasons.... but on this point, I agree with him.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Cederic]

if you want to have a been

What the fuck?

The length of a daylight in a day does not change, regardless if the sun rises at 4am, 9pm or whatever

No, but whether it's light when you go to work/school or light when you get home from work/school does change and does matter to people.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Shotgun]

So? Go to the school board meeting or talk to your manager to get the start/stop time changed. Why do we need to fuck up every clock in the nation twice a year to accomodate local variances?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Shotgun]

No. The quirk here is that this whole argument is ridiculous. The "clock" is a figment of our imaginations instituted to coordinate cooperation between people. There is literally no other reason for having a clock other than to be able to agree on when events will occur. Modifying the clock twice a year upsets the coordination, the only point in having the damn thing in the first place.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Shotgun]

The solution to that is to talk to your manager and get your work hours shifted.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Shotgun]

You can muck with the hands or digits on your clocks all you want. It will make not one iota in the lightness or darkness of mornings or evenings anywhere. That is controlled by the tilt and speed of the Earth's rotation, not the arbitrary numbers on your clock.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Shotgun]

You're pissed off by an arbitrary number on a dumb device?
Dude, you should really get out more.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Heathren-bert]

I grew up in Indiana (when they didn't observe) and it was glorious. The only thing we ever noticed was that all our summer TV shows were 'central time'.

Yes, the biggest question we would have is if we were the on the same time as New York or Illinois. And it would get dark enough in the summer earlier so kids could catch lightening bugs. Now it doesn't start getting dark until 10pm here on the western side of Indiana.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[nbritton]

No, the idea was to save electricity, as in switching on lights later etc.

The idea was to save the whales, as in lamp oil, or I mean, at least, to save money on candles and lamp oil.

Electricity is dirt cheap now, but lives aren't. Driving home from work in the dark after you're exhausted and tired from a long days work is a recipe for disaster and the crash statistics bear this out. The winter time is when we need extra light hours in the evening because winter road conditions and it being dark outside can lead to more vehicle accidents.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Darinbob]

No, he wants the artificial Daylight Savings Time on, rather than sticking with Standard Time. The problem here is that people start to assume that if it's dark for them in the morning that it must be dark for everyone in the morning. Time zones are the fundamental problem here and the weird ways that the borders were drawn. Natural time is when the sun is at its highest point at 12:00PM, going to DST permanently means that the sun would be approximately overhead at 11:00AM instead. So it focuses on the mornings and not the evenings. And if you are so enamored at having more daylight in the morning at the expense of darker afternoons, then switch the time by two or three hours!

So if we're getting rid of time change it should be to be Standard Time year round, and if that's not good enough then just dump time zones altogether and have a single world time. But doing to Daylight Savings Time year round is just stupid and ignorant.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Darinbob]

Everyone leaves for home around 3pm here. I'm not ever trying to leave early anywhere between 3 to 6 because those are peak commute hours.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Darinbob]

The reason that this was good for farmers was mostly a myth and a way to sell it to politicians. The real reason it got enacted wide scale was to keep businesses open later in the evening to hopefully help out the economy.

No one would care that much if the time zones were more uniform and no one was ever more than 30 minutes off of natural time. But some people might be 45 minutes to an hour off, and that hour difference might help them out (while simultaneously inconveniencing someone on the opposite side of the time zone).

They should just ditch time zones altogether and have one time world round. Then the local work place might say "work hours are roughly 16:00 to 00:00" (or 9 to 5 PST). But we'll never get here because it's confusing, too many politics, too many people not understanding time very well, etc. Remember the US couldn't even manage to get to metric because so many people complained about it, imagine trying to fix something like time.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

No, the idea was to save electricity, as in switching on lights later etc.

What? There are people who turn on or off lights based on a clock instead of the actual level of light available?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

The winter time is when we need extra light hours in the evening because winter road conditions and it being dark outside can lead to more vehicle accidents.

OK, then set that as the standard time. It still doesn't sound necessary to change clocks twice a year.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

Indiana is a great example of what not to do for time zones.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

At some point people need to realize that they've chosen to live in a place where the sun rises late in the winter, and become OK with that fact. Adapt to it. Move work hours back or whatever you need to do, maybe just come to terms with the realities of living in the northern quarter of the planet. What's stupid is expecting a bunch of other people to change their clocks twice a year.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

That's interesting that a country that large and populous can operate on one time zone. Different regions wake up and sleep at different times and no one changes their clocks. Makes sense.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[angel'o'sphere]

What? There are people who turn on or off lights based on a clock instead of the actual level of light available?
Yes, e.g. automatic lights in show rooms, shops etc. which are often on mechanical time switches. People often don't care to adjust them when DST is switched on or off.

And no, ordinary humans go after the light level, and hence switch on light later when DST is on ... I guess you knew that ...

Re:Just pick a damned time

[thegarbz]

No, the idea was to save electricity

The concept of DST predates electricity, but you're on the right track. Think more oil and candle wax.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[thegarbz]

College caught me that who cares what time you wake up on the clock.

And when you grow up and enter the real world you'll find plenty of people care about when you do what with your life, including your neighbours if you wake up at 6am to mow the lawn because it's the only time of the day with light, and your boss because he doesn't want you coming late.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[mark-t]

At some point people need to realize that they've chosen to live in a place where the sun rises late in the winter, and become OK with that fact.

Perhaps they are... right now. But if you end up pushing sunrise back an entire hour, they aren't the ones who chose to suddenly have to now always do their entire commute before dawn, because on standard time, they didn't have to worry about it, and during the summer, the sun comes up early enough that DST doesn't keep them out of the sun either.

What's stupid is expecting a bunch of other people to change their clocks twice a year.

Absolutely. But pushing the clocks into permanent DST isn't the way to do that.

Re: Just pick a damned time

[Martin Blank]

They're not going to change opening hours for one person, or even for a few people. Too much of the world works on expectations of business opening times of 9:00, not a shifting time throughout the year based on sunrise. It has these expectations because they work, otherwise you're back to cities 100 miles apart working on slightly different schedules based on their local sunrise and sunset. We got rid of that for a reason.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Martin Blank]

While it's true that many people begin their commute while it is still dark in the winter, a *vast* majority of them still get to experience at least some sunlight before heading indoors at the end of their commute.

I'm not sure where you're working that you get 15 minutes of time outside before work, but it seems to be fairly rare in my experience. Working at a large place might mean a sprawling parking lot but could also mean a parking structure. Even with the sprawling lots, it's rarely more than a few minutes to get inside. Before parking, you're in the car, which often means tinted glass so not much brighter than at home.

And in the winter, in those places with serious darkness issues, they're going to rush inside anyway to get out of the cold on most days, days that will also often be cloudy and rainy or snowy.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[mark-t]

I'm not sure where you're working that you get 15 minutes of time outside before work

On the commute to work, perhaps? Honestly, that's all it takes. While it's true that no small number of people do need to start work before the sun actually comes up in the middle of winter, the reality still is that most do not. Moving sunrise an hour later would, however, subject virtually everybody to a completely sunless commute except those who start work *very* late.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[Safety Cap]

I never really understood why we "fell back" to standard time during winter,

I do. They tried not falling back one year in 1974. We schoolkids had to walk to school in the dark. It was no big deal for me at the time, as school was 5-6 blocks away.

But all the parents freaked out ("Little Johnny will get hit by a car!"*) and that was the end of it.

.

.

.

. * No one worried about kids being kidnapped and raped while walking to school in the dark, because we weren't all pussies back then. You're welcome and get off my lawn.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[bigtech]

In "Standard Time", the sun is directly overheard at noon. That's what we "fall back" to. I guess it's some kind of cosmic rule.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

they aren't the ones who chose to suddenly have to now always do their entire commute before dawn

If they decide to open their businesses before sunrise then they most certainly are the ones choosing that. I don't understand the confusion. It's not like there's a federal law which states that any public business needs to be open no later than 8am or whatever. Open when the sun is out if that's important to you, regardless of whatever the clock says.

There are places in the US, like Seattle, which experience fewer than 9 hours of sunlight in a day in the winter. If they want to be open for 10 hours a day, is it possible to do that in a way where both commutes are during the light? Of course not, absolutely no amount of fucking with a clock is going to give you more than 9 hours of sunlight in one day. But people make the choice to live there, so they're choosing to deal with that. They understand the sun is going to set before 5pm and not come up again until 8am. It's just a fact of life, and I'm not going to change my clock in Arizona because people move up there and realize that the days are much shorter.

It does not matter at all if it's always standard time or always DST or whatever. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DAMN CLOCK SAYS, open your business at a time that you want to open and close it whenever you want to. It does not matter what time the clock says when you do these things. That is not important. If people need to get used to the fact that school starts at 10am, they'll get used to it. It's not a big fucking deal and I have no idea why people are using so many words to talk about this issue. It doesn't deserve it. It's a really really simple issue. People need to quit thinking that all businesses need to be open at 8am or some arbitrary time on the clock. They don't.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

So if a business is open for 12 hours a day, and they have their lights on while they're open, and turn the lights off a certain amount of time after they close, you're suggesting that power consumption for those lights changes based on things like the time of the year or the time of day? At what time of day does a light bulb that is turned on use the least amount of electricity?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[mark-t]

It's worth noting that the reason that people typically think that businesses should be open at time X is because the sun is always up by that time, even in the middle of winter.

If you push sunrise back an hour, then that isn't true anymore.... and regardless of how high the soapbox is that you stand upon to preach about it, it's unlikely that the perception is going to change. At the very least, you are going to be looking at having to push school start times back an hour to compensate, and that in turn is going to mess with everyone's schedule if they have kids.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

That's just the price they pay for wanting to live in the northern quarter of the planet I suppose, where daylight might be less than 9 hours. I'm sure they'll figure it out without expecting the rest of the country to change their clocks. If they refuse to change their perceptions then I guess they're setting themselves up for an irritating life for no good reason. That, too, is not my problem.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[wyHunter]

I agree, and in the 21st century, it's just insane, because 24 hour business cycle etc. is a fact of life. It's just an inconvenience, now. But many of the idiots in our government in the USA, of both parties, and many of the citizens of the nation, actually believe we DO "get an extra hour of daylight" rather than just shift the clock.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[mark-t]

Or... they could also just leave the goddamn clocks alone and let 12PM actually define the middle of an actual solar day like it more or less actually is on standard time.

If people are so freaking upset about not having any daylight in the evening, why don't they just quit their job and find another one with more favorable hours?

Re:Just pick a damned time

[amicusNYCL]

That's another good option.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[angel'o'sphere]

Dude, DST was introduced in germany around 1975.
Shops usually closed around 18:00/19:00.
In summer it gets dark around 21:00.
Shops activate lights around 20:30 and keep them on till about 22:30.
With daylight saving time hey save one or two hours of electric light.
For a whole country, that adds up.

Not to mention homes where people like to sit outside and do not need electric light because: uh, it has light longer in the evening, wow, that was so easy.

Sorry, no one can be so dumb not to grasp this simple thing.

Re:Just pick a damned time

[angel'o'sphere]

Most countries don't have a 24 business hours circle of life. The shops in Germany that close at midnight are just a hand full. Everything else closes 20:00 or 21:00 and opens in the morning around 8:00 / 9:00.

Same for France or Thailand, and I doubt rural USA is any different.

"actually believe we DO "get an extra hour of daylight" rather than just shift the clock."
Because you actually do get an extra hour of daylight, or are you used to get out of bed at 4:00? Idiots all around, I don't get how people can be so stupid.

I get up between 9:00 and 10:00: so I get an extra hour of daylight. YMMW ...

About damned time

[Y2K is bogus]

Trump says something that isn't completely idiotic!

Re:About damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

And he even got the Daylight vs Standard Time distinction correct, and expressed a policy choice succinctly.

Which means somebody else wrote the tweet.

Re:About damned time

[Tablizer]

About time he says something right. [paraphrased]

You know what they say about a broken daylight savings clock being right twice a year.

Re:About damned time

[rnturn]

Yeah but there's always the chance that he said that because he thinks it's actually saving daylight.

Re:About damned time

[Rick Schumann]

Trump says something that isn't completely idiotic!
Could have been just dumb luck, it's a simple binary choice.

Re:About damned time

[spitzak]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

Re:About damned time

[meerling]

I so want to argue that point with you, but this is trump we're discussing, so....

Re: About damned time

[rahvin112]

States can't change their timezone or the definition of their timezone. That's a power reserved at the federal level. They do have the choice to honor daylight savings time, 2 states don't participate (AZ is one).

But to change timezones or their offset from UMT you have to have an act of congress and up to this point it's never happened because of vested interests.

Re:About damned time

[h33t l4x0r]

Maybe he meant Daylight Slaving Time
#maga #just-kidding

Re:About damned time

[Krishnoid]

And he said 'Saving' instead of 'Savings'. I'm suspicious.

Re:About damned time

[markdavis]

>"it's a simple binary choice."

Not really. It is a simple trinary choice-

1) Do nothing and continue this insane time changing twice a year that the vast majority of people dislike or even hate.
2) Stay on standard time year-round.
3) And the BEST choice of all- stay on summer time (daylight saving time) year-round.

But somehow even this will be made partisan, like everything else now, and then go nowhere. So we will be stuck with the worst choice (#1). Count on it.

Re:About damned time

[dryeo]

Numbers 2 and 3 really depend on where in your timezone you are. There's an hour or so difference between the east and west.

Re:About damned time

[dcw3]

You really think there are only three choices? Tisk.

Re:About damned time

[Aighearach]

He's a rich asshole; he may have poor grammar, but he's still going to accidentally repeat some big words that people around him say.

Or, maybe it was just a typo.

Re:About damned time

[Aighearach]

That's the joke; it is suspicious because it is a common mistake, but he didn't make it. And he makes a lot of grammatical and spelling mistakes.

Re:About damned time

[BytePusher]

A broken clock is right twice each day

Re: About damned time

[BytePusher]

According to this(http://timezonereport.com/?page_id=313) you’re almost correct. Doesn’t take an act of Congress, but instead they need to “Petition the Secretary of the Department of Transportation and request a change of time zone designation.” Which is much easier than getting Congress to agree on anything ever.

Re:About damned time

[Tough Love]

The flaw in your third proposal is, staying on summer time year-round does not make it summer year-round.

Re:About damned time

[bobbied]

Trump says something that isn't completely idiotic!

Love him or hate him, Maybe you should be listening to what he says and tweets more often... Where he is often what you apparently expect, he has said a lot of things which are quite insightful, even more so than this statement. Trust me, the guy is not dumb or even crazy as some claim, he's just not very polished or PC in what he says so it's easy to make fun of him.

Re:About damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

And the grammar police in the media are looking for *any* reason to make fun of him, so they report on every jot and tittle he gets wrong.

Re:About damned time

[bobbied]

Don't cut yourself with that edgy "the left is terrible" rhetoric.

Here I thought the comment was quite blunt...

Re:About damned time

[AmiMoJo]

Not when the clocks go forward and we lose an hour. That day it's never 01:30!

Re:About damned time

[UPi]

Him endorsing sticking with DST is the first time I start doubting that it is a good idea. It's like an exercise regimen recommended by a sloth: suddenly and inexplicably it sounds terrible, even if you've been doing it all your life.

Re:About damned time

[religionofpeas]

He also straight out denies having said things we have a clear record of.

Re:About damned time

[Shotgun]

Doesn't need the media if you are at least know how to speak English. Foreigners know better English than many native speakers.

WOW! And you did that with a straight face. I'm at a loss for words.

Re:About damned time

[Shotgun]

You need to pull up a news outlet that will let you hear about Ilhan Omar's repeated antisemitic remarks.

Or, just continue on in your willful ignorance and hero worship of all things Democrat. Your choice.

Re:About damned time

[Shotgun]

Unless it is DST switchover time. Then it might in fact be right three times in one day.

Re:About damned time

[Shotgun]

And, which politician doesn't? Could you name names?

Re:About damned time

[spitzak]

On the day clocks go back a stopped clock can be right 3 times, however. So it makes up for it.

knowing that guy...

[Tablizer]

I bet he asked it be named, "Trump Standard Time". And maybe "Time Force" the second option.

Re: knowing that guy...

[NicknameUnavailable]

Let me guess, you don't believe he said "Tim Apple" either?

I believe that the fact you find that worth mentioning is absolute proof you have no beef with him aside from the fact he's not "your" guy.

It is the seventh sign..

[Major_Disorder]

Trumpy and I agree about something. Repent, for the end is near.

Re:It is the seventh sign..

[Solandri]

Actually, if even Trump is for ditching the time changes, it makes me wonder. Who the hell is it that likes it, and convinces our legislators not to get rid of it.

Re:It is the seventh sign..

[Kargan]

Popular Mechanics, apparently:

https://www.popularmechanics.c...

Re:It is the seventh sign..

[dryeo]

Barbecue makers.

Can we also stop timezones?

[bob4u2c]

Seriously, time is relative. We have fricking time zones literally 15 minutes apart in areas. We have major confusion when you call somewhere and they say they are closed at 5:00 and you look at your watch and go, but it's 3:00 how can you be closed?

P.S. going out into space or anywhere where our narrow view of the date/time exist will only make this worse (like Mars)! Stop the madness now!

This message brought to you by the Let's Count Ticks Since 0 council.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[Merk42]

Seriously, time is relative. We have fricking time zones literally 15 minutes apart in areas. We have major confusion when you call somewhere and they say they are closed at 5:00 and you look at your watch and go, but it's 3:00 how can you be closed? P.S. going out into space or anywhere where our narrow view of the date/time exist will only make this worse (like Mars)! Stop the madness now! This message brought to you by the Let's Count Ticks Since 0 council.

So you propose what exactly? Everyone's business hours are that of 9-5 UTC? I'm sure people in the west coast would love starting their day at the equivalent of 2AM.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[Shotgun]

After approximately one week, no one would think twice about it.

Going metric would require/ has required serious money to convert infrastructure. Switching to a universal clock is little more than changing signs on advertisements. We're not even talking about changing the units. Just agreeing on a different number of when the workday starts.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[Merk42]

After approximately one week, no one would think twice about it.

Because they'd move?

Everyone just sleeps during the day?
Entire countries needing to use more electric because their "business hours" are when the sun isn't around?
Businesses that literally depend on Sunlight (or lack thereof)?

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[amicusNYCL]

So you propose what exactly? Everyone's business hours are that of 9-5 UTC? I'm sure people in the west coast would love starting their day at the equivalent of 2AM.

Why is that so confusing and scary for you?

Our office is open from 15 GMT to 0 GMT. I wake up around 13 GMT and go to bed around 5 GMT. If I moved across the country, all that would change.

OOOOOh, scary!

It would sure make scheduling things across countries easier, wouldn't it? Of course, if you only do business and interact with people within a 100-mile radius of where you were born, maybe you wouldn't enjoy it as much. Then again, it would be the only system you ever knew and ever had to learn.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[amicusNYCL]

Everyone just sleeps during the day?

You're pretty confused, aren't you?

"The day" isn't some arbitrary number on a clock, it's the 12 or so hours centered around when the sun is at its peak. When you understand this then I'll explain "the night," that will REALLY blow your mind!

Entire countries needing to use more electric because their "business hours" are when the sun isn't around?

Why the fuck would a business catering to the public decide to open its doors when everyone is sleeping? "BUT the sign on the door says we have to be open from 9am to 5pm (whatever "pm" is supposed to be!), and there's no timezone listed on the sign so we HAVE to be open from 9 GMT to 17 GMT! We have no choice! The sign dictates it!"

Businesses that literally depend on Sunlight (or lack thereof)?

Here's a crazy motherfucking idea, and I'm going to go quick so try to stick with me: if your business depends on the sun being out, then be open when it's out. If it depends on the sun being down, then be open when it's down. I hope I didn't move too quickly.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[bob4u2c]

Because they'd move?

Everyone just sleeps during the day?
Entire countries needing to use more electric because their "business hours" are when the sun isn't around?
Businesses that literally depend on Sunlight (or lack thereof)?

Such narrow thinking. Think about it realistically and what time really means. Ie, a day is just how long it takes before we see the sun again, which is mainly dependent on how fast the sun spins. Move to the moon and a 24 hour day doesn't mean as much, move to Mars and things are worse, live on the space shuttle that orbits several times in a 24 hour period and your all out of wack. A year is defined by how long it takes us to go around the sun, which again on Mars would be totally off. Heck I keep hearing people saying the summers in California are hotter because we are closer to the sun [eyes roll], don't get me started.

So back to how this would work, say we use UTC as the basis and Standard Time everywhere. Then take California as an example, it has a UTC of -8. All that means is that whatever the UTC time is subtract 8 hours to get the California time. So your typical workday that starts at 8:00am "California Time" would instead start 8 hours later at 4:00pm UTC when the sun comes up in California; you normally get off work at say 5:00 "California Time" which corresponds to 1:00am UTC time. So in California stores would typically be open from 4:00pm to 1:00am. On the East coast stores would typically open at 1:00pm and close at 10:00pm.

Now each area is free to set their store hours, so if you wanted a 15 minute advantage in California, you would open at 3:45pm and close at 12:45am. If you called up a store anywhere in the world and they said they closed at 1:00am, you could look at your watch and see it's 11:00pm and know the store is still open.

Stop shifting the world around what is convenient for you, your not the center of the universe.

Re:Can we also stop timezones?

[bob4u2c]

which is mainly dependent on how fast the sun spins.

Sorry, that should be:
which is mainly dependent on how fast the Earth spins.

For how long?

[Gravis Zero]

If you know this president then it's that he flip-flops when the pressure is on. As soon as a Republican objects he will change his position. Count on it.

Gradual time change

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like us to advance a minute a day for half the year, pause for a day, then recede a minute a day for the other half. In leap years, we'd do without the pause day.

Re:Gradual time change

[Cmdln Daco]

We'd wear out the stems on our watches and clocks in a few months.

Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

Thoose advocating year round DST don't remember the disaster in the mid-70s. The country switched to year round DST for two years. It was quickly killed for many reasons. Scvhool children going to class in the dark was one, another was that people in cold country discovered that an extra hour of sun in the evening was of no benefit, but darkness until 8:320 or 9 was a pain.
I hope rational heads will prevail on this, at a minimum keep the current system, or better yet, kill DST altogether.

Re: Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe kids shouldn't spend the supermajority of their waking hours at ineffective indoctrination camps.

Re:Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

But without DST kids will trick-or-treat in the dark.

The little shits already do.

Re:Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

School can start later in the day. Problem solved.

What, that doesn't work with some people's work schedules? Well neither does the current arrangement. People cope with this, they can cope with that. Problem solved.

A similar solution applies to the problem of people not liking their work schedules. These things can be changed. Problem solved.

Re:Standard all year

[MikeDataLink]

This argument baffles me. Here's a concept. Get up earlier or go to bed later. The amount of time in the day is unchanged.

What? It's dark for kids? You know schools can choose what hours they open and close?

What? Construction workers have to work in the dark? They too can change what hours they work. Just like they do when it rains.

Re:Standard all year

[hey!]

In 1969, 48% of K-8 students walked or biked to school. By 2016 that percentage dropped to less than 10%. In my part of the country, the norm of shoveling sidewalks is no longer enforced meaning that walking often requires detours into the street.

Since this makes winter walking to school impractical, it's a moot issue. Personally, I think kids should walk to school, and the sidewalks should be cleared at least four feet wide. Schools could simply move their start later in the day.

Re:Standard all year

[dcw3]

You know schools can choose what hours they open and close?

But many parents can't choose what time they have to be at work, and often they are affected by what time little Johnny goes to or returns from school. There's no simple solution that's not going to cause grief for some large portion of the population.

I personally like DST, but then having worked rotating shifts for several years, a one hour change seems hardly noticeable to me.

Re:Standard all year

[dcw3]

In 1969, we didn't have helicopter parents. I walked seven blocks unescorted to and from elementary school in Detroit up until that year. Now, I see parents sitting out at the bus stop in front of my suburban home every day just to pick up their middle school kids on bright sunny mornings and afternoons. This is in a very crime free area of upper middle class homes. Sweet Jesus what is wrong with parents these days? None of these kids has more than a 1/4 mile walk to home. SMH

Re:Standard all year

[religionofpeas]

Changing time schedules twice a year still requires people changing their sleep schedule, plus you have to deal with everybody changing their schedule at random times, or not at all, plus the overhead of posting the changes somewhere.

Re:Standard all year

[AmiMoJo]

Rather than having timezones that are basically vertical strips covering longitudes, it seems like we want them to be diagonal. People in the north on a different time to people directly south of them.

Re:Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

Changing school hours can cause big problems though due to parents work and appointment schedules. Everything is tuned together.

Re:Standard all year

[Anonymous Coward]

Florida didn't vote to adopt DST. They voted to switch from Eastern Time to Atlantic Time. And yes, I live in Florida, and I think the idea is ridiculous. Daylight at 9 PM? No thanks.

Re:Standard all year

[AndrewFlagg]

just change the work and school hours in the winter time from 7am to 40pm or 8am to 5pm to just 9am to 3pm. that should solve the going and coming to work and school in the dark.

Re:Standard all year

[Shotgun]

In NC most large employers will shut down when there is the threat of snow. You know why? Because, they know that all the parents will be calling in due to school closings.

You see what's happening there? Business will adjust when their workforce has to adjust.

And you didn't even have to pass a law to get it done.

Re:Standard all year

[Shotgun]

But, it would if there was a demand because lots of people got up earlier.

Re:Standard all year

[dcw3]

Snow storms in NC (I'm in VA...same here) are one-off events that also affect those businesses customers. It's not their every day, 9 months out of the year situation.

Re:Standard all year

[Uberbah]

In 1969, we didn't have helicopter parents.

I know car accidents hadn't been invented yet in 1969, but neither kids nor drivers always pay attention to whats going on around them. So it helps to have someone pay that attention and yell to Billy to get his ass out of the road because there's a car coming around the corner.

Re:Standard all year

[dcw3]

No, we walked ten miles up hill both ways. It's fine, keep your head in the sand.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...
https://www.news-medical.net/h...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/a...

Re:As my Granpappy used to say

[meerling]

That watch has a higher accuracy rate than the orange potus

Y'know...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd forgive him a lot of things if he's just make that happen.

And I'm not even American. Just a Canadian who knows that if it happens state-side, Canada will soon follow.

Split the diff - go 30 minutes

[Anonymous Coward]

Look I get it - Winter is dark up north. And the sun comes up really early in the summer (I have daylight from 5ish AM to almost 10pm where I live). Fireworks don't start until 9:30.

But I too hate the 1 hour forward/back. It's miserable. Why not get the benefits of both and pick the middle.

Re: Split the diff - go 30 minutes

[Miamicanes]

I agree. Split the difference once & for all... Eastern = UTC-4.5, Central = UTC-5.5, Mountain=UTC-6.5, Pacific=UTC-7.5, etc.

Re:Split the diff - go 30 minutes

[AK9oh7]

Speaking of fireworks, where I live we set them off at 12:10am. We're probably one of the first to do so on July 4th.

Re: Split the diff - go 30 minutes

[Miamicanes]

What, exactly, is terrible about it? The fact that it involves a half-hour instead of a whole hour? Iran and India both do it already... and I think it's safe to say that if the US & Canada did it, Britain and the EU would probably do the exact same thing within a year or two (and vice-versa).

Look at it this way... splitting the difference between standard and daylight saving time is just about the only thing at this point that's going to stop the majority of Florida from moving into year-round Atlantic Standard Time (the law was already passed, though I think it leaves the western panhandle pinned to Alabama's timezone). Once Florida gets spoiled by late sunsets all year, it's NEVER going to voluntarily rejoin the rest of the eastern US, EVEN IF the remainder eventually moves to UTC-4.5. If you think having the continental US at UTC-4.5/5.5/6.5/7.5 is "too confusing", try adding a fifth timezone ("Florida/Atlantic Standard Time") at UTC-4 into the mix as well.

Could the feds forcibly drag Florida kicking and screaming back into Eastern if it shifted it to UTC-4.5? Sure... technically... but frankly, neither party would DARE at that point to antagonize the third-largest state in the country and risk having a half hour of "stolen" after-work daylight turn into a federal election-deciding backlash from angry voters. If Florida moves to UTC-4, "Florida/Atlantic Standard Time" will be permanent as far as Florida is concerned, REGARDLESS of what the rest of the east coast ultimately decides to do.

Wait until he finds out Obama's position...

[bussdriver]

FOX mistakenly probably gave him the idea with the yearly bitching that losing an hour causes; they'll set him straight on if he gets serious... unless they poll it gains him a few points... They've still got to win over the smarter portion of the below average IQ voters.

Stupid or Evil. Ignorance of him is no longer an excuse.

DST sucks. Regular time works

[zkiwi34]

Why? Because it has for worked well for millenia.

Re:DST sucks. Regular time works

[dcw3]

The first clock was invented in 1656, so 363 years at most, but then you came here for the pedantic replies.

Re:DST sucks. Regular time works

[_merlin]

Clocks and "standard time" have existed for a few hundred years. For millennia, people defined the start of the day as astronomical sunrise. DST is supposed to be a kind of compromise for the way astronomical sunrise time varies throughout the year.

Shopping

[rsilvergun]

as has been pointed out originally it was for farmers. After that the reason we kept it around was shopping. People shop more when there's more daylight, so the retail chains fought to keep DST to maximize daily shopping time. Retail has waned quite a bit so there's less pressure to keep it.

You'd be amazed how many things in your life you take for granted are that way because a company wanted it that way.

Re:Shopping

[Aighearach]

You'd be amazed how many things in your life you take for granted are that way because...

Because somebody told you that the things were that way, and instead of taking that as encouragement to look the subject up since it interested you, instead you just believed whatever the person told you. And so you've got this giant load of bullshit inside your head that you carry around and sometimes share.

It involved shopping in a way, but not directly; it was the BBQ Lobby that encouraged the last extension.

The biggest shopping day of the year is in November. The biggest shopping season is late fall/early winter. I don't think the retail world is as dumb as you posit.

Re:Shopping

[Shotgun]

I hope you actually realize that fucking with a clock doesn't change what the sun does.

Even the blind acron

[rsilvergun]

is right twice a day.

Re:Exactly:About damned time

[Anonymous Coward]

If you did, you would see the merits of several (not all) of his points.

Ha ha ha. Now pull the other one.

I hate him because he's a narcissistic idiot. He's racist. He's a fascist. He's a liar. He's a crook. He's a draft dodger, a tax cheat, a serial adulterer, and a bully. Etc., etc., etc. Do you claim to be religious? Christian? Tell us how you think fucking a porn star while his wife was pregnant is worthy of your adulation. And vote.

He didn't even want the job. He thought running would be the greatest infomercial ever for the Trump brand.

Drain the swamp? Yeah, right.

Have you done your taxes yet? How's that "tax cut" working out for you?

So yeah, don't project your "brainwashed" bullshit on those of us who have seen through him since the beginning. How's about you do some "thinking things through" yourself and get back to us.

Daylight Saving Time

[jpaine619]

For the 1,000,000th time. It's DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME. You are saving daylight... It's not Savings Time. This isn't a fucking bank account. You aren't storing it for later use..

Re:Daylight Saving Time

[mark-t]

It doesn't save any daylight though... it steels some from the morning to add some in the evening.

And considering the proven health benefits that exist for having exposure to the sun in the morning, it's better from a health-perspective if the sun rises earlier rather than later anyways, so the entire concept of DST Is just plain fucking stupid, completely ignoring human biology and fundamental truths about how humans have adapted and evolved.

Re:Daylight Saving Time

[dcw3]

I'd be willing to bet you say "hot water heater", "ATM machine", and "PIN number". Language evolves, and so should we.

Re:Daylight Saving Time

[Krishnoid]

Um, yeah, you are -- how else are you planning to pay it back once November rolls around?

Re: Daylight Saving Time

[Miamicanes]

Well, technically, it *is* "saving" daylight from the perspective of most people. Very few people are awake & take advantage of daylight at 5:30am. Nearly everyone is awake & appreciates extra daylight after work, including most of the people who ARE awake at 5:30am.

Re: Daylight Saving Time

[mark-t]

When the sun is rising at 5:30am, it's also setting late enough that most people are still getting sunlight after they are finished their work day.

But it doesn't rise at 5:30 am in the winter when you go north of about 45 degrees. It doesn't rise until after 7:30 in the middle of winter, and will set sometime before 5pm.

I realize that this is before many people are home from work, and I can appreciate how much people might want the sun to be up after they get home, but in the end, the compromise that must be made of not having sunlight in the morning is going to have far too great of an impact on people's health by changing their serotonin and melatonin cycles to be worth it. While it's true that there are a lot of people who even need to be at work before the sun comes up in the winter, a majority of people will still get at least some morning sunlight before they get to work, which wouldn't be the case anymore if you pushed sunrise to later in the day by an entire hour.

Perpetual motion machines might be nice to have too... but I'm sorry, that's just not how the the real world works.

Re:Daylight Saving Time

[Roger Wilcox]

Both phrases are used in common parlance, and you aren't going to change that by shouting into the wind. Even Wikipedia acknowledges it goes by different names.

Chill out and embrace the fluid nature of language.

Re:Exactly:About damned time

[Major_Disorder]

Trump says many things that are not idiotic.

Citation needed.
I have listened to him speak, and read many of his tweets. This is sufficient for me to know without a shred of doubt, that he is a moron.

For the love of everything good

[MikeDataLink]

Please pass this and eliminate the clock switching madness.

News

[tsa]

The idiot said something.

Why is this even news? Amd why is it on /.?

Re:News

[dcw3]

Because based upon comments here, it's the first time a majority of /.ers have agreed with him.

So much for drive-in movies.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

darker later is the way to go.

IMHO Daylight Savings Time was much of what killed the drive in theatres. Come summer, with DST, there wasn't enough time after sunset to attend a double feature and still get home and to bed in time to get up before sunrise and make it to work.

In the summer what we're short of isn't light. It's darkness. If the government must screw around with the clocks twice a year, they should move them BACK in the spring and return them to standard in the fall.

I call it "Night Life Savings Time".

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[Waffle Iron]

If the government must screw around with the clocks twice a year, they should move them BACK in the spring and return them to standard in the fall.

I call it "Night Life Savings Time".

Hmmm... a real dilemma: No drive-in theaters vs. the sun streaming in at 3:30am in the summer.

I'll side with 99.9% of the population and ditch the drive-ins.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[GoingDown]

In Finland, we had poll about whether to stay on DST or winter time. Result was 52% in winter time and 48% in DST. Of course because this was a public poll results are only giving a direction, but it is nowhere near 99% vs 1%.

I myself really do not care. If we all go to DST, then slowly and gradually our wake-up hours will shift little bit later and later, until we see that when previously we were living in (for example) 7-22 wake-up hours, then after years of permanent DST wake-up hours shift for 8-23.

It really would not matter. People to tend to go to sleep too late anyway, and wake up with too little sleep.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[Waffle Iron]

That's all well and good, but the OP proposed *anti* DST, moving sunrise and sunset one hour *earlier* in the summer (and still changing clocks twice per year). I really don't think that would poll well at all.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[stealth_finger]

Result was 52% in winter time and 48% in DST.

So will of the people then? Did your gov then try to go through with it despite it being a bad idea with no way to pull off well and everyone telling them so?

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[GoingDown]

It is still on discussions. There is EU wide proposal to get rid of time changes. Every country have option to select either time to stay on.
https://www.timeanddate.com/ne...

Here in Finland, it has not been yet decided which time is the one we stay on.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[Outta_the_way_peck!]

Your argument for standard time over DST is a virtually extinct business? How drive-in theaters even exist still in the US?

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[rcharbon]

VHS (and Betamax), cable TV, and the internet killed drive-ins, sonny.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[thegarbz]

IMHO Daylight Savings Time was much of what killed the drive in theatres.

IMHO the horrible concept of watching a movie in the least comfortable way using the worst possible sound in a poor quality environment killed drive in theaters.

But why tell you when I can sing it for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[thegarbz]

In Finland

You are further north and thus present a very difference case for anything to do with time and clocks than literally 99.8% of in the population of the country we are talking about. 52% vs 48% Applies to Finland and quite possibly Estonia, parts of Sweeden, parts of Russia, Greenland, Iceland, parts of Canada and maybe Alaska (the 0.2% of US population there).

You'll find people care a lot more when its actually relevant and your country isn't half in perpetual night / day for half a year.

Re:So much for drive-in movies.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

IMHO the horrible concept of watching a movie in the least comfortable way using the worst possible sound in a poor quality environment killed drive in theaters.

Actually, toward the end the sound was great. The theatres would have a low-power FM transmitter carrying the sound track. (Couple it to the wiring to the speaker cables, "carrier current" style, and the signal was strong at the cars but too weak to give free shows to those living or parked nearby.)

Tune to it on your car audio system and you got great - (at least) stereo - sound, not the awful squawk box sound from the old-style clip-on-the-window speaker.

Subwoofer lows would shake the car, just like they'd shake your seats in an indoor theatre.

Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[93 Escort Wagon]

A million Unix sysadmins' heads would explode.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[djinn6]

Sorry, TAI is where we need to go. Screw leap seconds.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[Tony Isaac]

The only people who would like this idea are Unix sysadmins. For the rest of us, it matters that lunch is around noon, that office hours are roughly from 8-5, that people are usually in bed at midnight. We don't care what time it is in Greenwich, UK.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[TeknoHog]

We don't care what time it is in Greenwich, UK.

Those who work with people in other countries would care a lot, and those who do any long-distance travel. Which not a small bunch. For those, a global standard time would be extremely convenient.

Of course, this would mean a lot of adjustment for your local time. But DST already makes solar noon at 1 PM, which is not its natural time. Your local working hours would still be around solar noon, just not using numbers like 8 AM to 5 PM. Especially when "AM" and "PM" refer to before and after noon -- you really should move on to 24-hour time by then.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[Tony Isaac]

Notice I didn't say anything about solar noon.

With our current system, we all have to do match to figure out what time it is in India.

If everybody uses UTC, then we all have to do match to figure out when working hours are in India.

So we really don't gain much, except confusion for locals, by all using UTC.

It's kind of like using a GPS. When you're driving, you don't want to see the whole map, oriented with north up. You just want to see the perspective of the road ahead, and whether your next turn is to the right or left. Likewise, as we navigate through our day, we just want to know what the local time is, not taking into account the rest of the world. Our current time zones are a good compromise.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[religionofpeas]

For those, a global standard time would be extremely convenient.

Nope, because you'd still have to know what everybody's office hours are.

Re:Now, if he'd come out in favor of universal UTC

[TeknoHog]

For those, a global standard time would be extremely convenient.

Nope, because you'd still have to know what everybody's office hours are.

Scenario 1: UTC everywhere

-So, about that teleconference. Is 14:00 OK with you?
-Sounds a bit early, my office hours start at 16. Would that work for you?
-Sure. See you then!

Scenario 2: local timezones

-I'll call you around 2 PM, is that OK?
-Wait, what time would that be over here?
-Let's see... we're on EEST.. I think that's UTC+2 but I'll have to check.
-What's UTC?
-Never mind, I'll check it for you. You're on East coast time, right? Do you guys use DST?
etc.

If you used UTC everywhere, office hours would be different, but you'd still know what your own office hours are. In both cases, you'll have to ask if a given time is OK, but it will be a lot easier with UTC. Heck, even within the same timezone, people can actually have different "working" hours.

Re:To kill fewer children.

[Anonymous Coward]

You got a source for that claim? This talks about the 1974 experiment. Says it ended before Halloween, and mentions not a word about a spike in car-pedestrian accidents.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-saving-time-went-too-far/ (not Ad Blocker friendly)

But this article says that studies have shown that changing the clock twice a year has actual health risks.
https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/experts-to-public-daylight-savings-time-is-a-434m-problem-we-could-easily-fix.html

Re:Daylight Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll start saying "Daylight Saving Time" instead of "Daylight Savings" (note: no "Time") as soon as you convince the Brits to start saying "Math" instead of "Maths."
Deal?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!!11111

[Anonymous Coward]

I swear to GOD. Kids fuck everything up.

Re:To kill fewer children.

[mark-t]

Except it doesn't actually save energy. The last study which suggested it does was conducted in the 1970's and was the impetus behind the most recent change to the DST schedule in 1996 which lengthened it by several weeks throughout the year, and while the study predicted a measurable energy savings even for those few weeks, those savings completely failed to materialize, showing very clearly that the energy demands which the study had examined and predicted a savings on were an artifact of how energy was used at the time, and not reflective of how we use energy today. The reason the clocks were not changed back was because of the expense of invoking yet another change to DST. Abolishing it entirely, by comparison, would not produce anywhere nearly as much expense because there are many places that already do not observe DST.

Greatings from Ottawa

[FeelGood314]

Ottawa is in about the middle of the Eastern Time zone. 9 to 5 is the standard work day. Sun rise in Ottawa in late december is after 7:30am. If we went to DST it would mean sun rise at 8:30am. So leaving for work in darkness. If we move west in the time zone things get worse. Detroit sun rise would be 9am so the entire morning commute would be in the dark. Poor Thunderbay would see the sun rise at 10am.

Re:Greatings from Ottawa

[XxtraLarGe]

I'm west of Detroit. I'd prefer dark in the morning when I'm driving to work than dark at night when I'm driving home. Even after falling back, it's still dark in the morning eventually.

Re:To kill fewer children.

[Aighearach]

I don't think they even let kids walk to school on the side of the road in the dark anymore in most places.

WTF I hate permanent DST now

[melted]

Liberals will now find reasons to hate on this, too. Basically Trump can control them through reverse psychology. Support Jews, and liberals become literally Hitler. Checkmate.

Oh crap, now his opponents will fight to keep it!

[Babel-17]

I just ordered a new watch that sets DST automatically, and I hope I remember correctly that that feature can be disabled. Yeah, now that I think about it, it was mentioned that some locales don't use DST, so the option is there.

Idiocracy

[Tough Love]

What is wrong with permanent standard time? Trump upholds idiocracy.

Re:Idiocracy

[guacamole]

What is wrong with permanent standard time? Trump upholds idiocracy.

People want an extra hour of sunshine in the evening when they are free to be outside, not in the morning when they work in offices, attend school, or still sleep.

Re:Idiocracy

[Pyramid]

There's an easy solution to this. It's called, "getting up an hour earlier".

Re:Idiocracy

[Tough Love]

I agree, we need special clocks for idiots.

Re:To kill fewer children.

[reboot246]

Here in Alabama yesterday morning, I stopped behind a school bus that was picking up children at 6:08. Pitch black dark in a rural area, and it wouldn't be daylight for nearly another hour. I think it's actually safer in a way because you can see the red flashing lights on the bus a whole lot better and from further away.

Sunrise today is at 6:59. I start work at 7:30 and it's daylight by then. I'm lucky though. On most of my jobs I can vary my start time to match the daylight.

We can go to year round DST, but I guarantee that some of you won't like it. You can't please everybody because people have different work schedules. Not everybody works 9 to 5.

Or we could do it the way the Romans did a couple of thousand years ago and just vary the length of the hours themselves. Anybody for longer and shorter hours? :)

12:00 is when the sun is in the zenith

[Gunstick]

so why do we want to change that?
The definition per-se of noon is "sun in zenith".

If people feel it's dark too early, well then change working times par law, instead of changing time per law.
It's so silly
Some law says we should start work at 8, but it's dark. Oh, let's do another law to change the time, so it's sunny at 8.

This is sooo Trump

genius. total genius.

[mad7777]

Congratulations, Mr. Trump, you've done it again!

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Re:Daylight Wasting Time

[crow]

No, let's frame the discussion with the correct terminology. For four months in the winter, we use Daylight Wasting Time. That term correctly describes the current system, points out the stupidity, and make clear the solution.

Re:Exactly:About damned time

[bobbied]

Trump says many things that are not idiotic.

Citation needed. I have listened to him speak, and read many of his tweets. This is sufficient for me to know without a shred of doubt, that he is a moron.

Go listen to his last state of the union speech. He said a lot of things during that speech that you should apparently hear. You can find it yourself on Google if you want, so I won't post links here.

Stop calling it "Permanent DST"

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who advocate "permanent DST", let's apply a little terminology. "DST" is a term that applies to the practice of changing the clock to something other than your actual time zone. It's not an actual time zone like EST or PST. If DST is made permanent, you're not in "DST" anymore, because the term is then meaningless. Rather, you're in the next time zone to the east of you.

So let's call a spade a spade here. If your standard time zone is PST and you advocate "permanent DST", what you really want is to switch from Pacific Time to Mountain Time -- even though you live in San Francisco. If you live in Texas and like the idea of "permanent DST", what you really want is to switch from Central Time to Eastern Time -- even though you live in the middle of the damn country. And so on.

Now we can finally see that the idea of "permanent DST" is ridiculous, confusing, and short-sighted. To be clear, if the stupid practice of changing the clocks was never invented in the first place, we would have all gone about our lives happily ever after, and never gave a second thought to it. But because we spent a few decades clinging to this stupid practice, now we have a debate. I say get over it, accept the time zone you live in, and wake up an hour early if you truly want to. Nobody is preventing you from doing that.

story

[FredVasco]

Not a bad story

Beyond stupid...

[Pyramid]

You can't make a rope longer by cutting a foot off one end and attaching it to the other. "Permanent DST" is identical to getting up 1 hour earlier. Just leave how we indicate time alone so the sun is (roughly) at its greatest height on the ecliptic at noon in any given time zone instead of playing a stupid shell game that doesn't do anything but mess up astronomical time.

Re:Beyond stupid...

[jarlsberg71]

No, it's shining a light on part of the rope, and yet renumbering the rope with numbers just 1 number greater than what was there

Re:To kill fewer children.

[Shotgun]

A different answer would be to change the school hours.

Like Russia

[Zemran]

Russia did this a couple of years ago and it is great. No more confusion twice a year. Great to see the US following Russia's lead.

Trump's Real Reason? All About the Golf...

[Koreantoast]

Perhaps the real reason for Trump's support (half sarcastic)? From the Smithsonian article quoted by someone else:

Today we know that changing the clocks does influence our behavior. For example, later sunset times have dramatically increased participation in afterschool sports programs and attendance at professional sports events. In 1920, The Washington Post reported that golf ball sales in 1918 – the first year of daylight saving – increased by 20 percent.

And when Congress extended daylight saving from six to seven months in 1986, the golf industry estimated that extra month was worth as much as $400 million in additional equipment sales and green fees. To this day, the Nielsen ratings for even the most popular television shows decline precipitously when we spring forward, because we go outside to enjoy the sunlight.

Re:To kill fewer children.

[bobschmagogee]

Have you talked to a kid lately? They're idiots. They need more school, not less.

This would make Trump...

[hsthompson69]

...The Best President Of All Time.

Literally.

Re:Causes more problems then it solves

[krray]

Go to sleep earlier on Sunday. You won't be tired Monday.
If you have to change your phone system, cameras, copiers, faxes, and much of anything else ... then you're doing it wrong. They should all be automated or dumped.

I have all the same equipment here. I had to change nothing. Except the center old school analog clock in my car. Shame on Chrysler [300 SRT8 thank you :-]. And no, Chrysler didn't factory make this car for me. I just made it really fucking fast to get in front of all the maniacs on the road. I am king maniac.

Seriously though -- all the equipment you mention, if updated in the last TWO decades, should be able to handle a NTP server. Set one up. Use it... (?)

Re: First clock was invented in 1656

[nuckfuts]

You never heard of a sundial?

Just how the law got written

[sjbe]

Why can't the individual States decide?

Because that's the way the laws were written a few decades back when they implemented the current system. Not saying it is good or bad, just that that's what happened. Canada evidently wrote their laws differently which is neither better nor worse - just a different solution to the same problem. For whatever reason the federal law in the US allows states to opt out of DST permanently but does not permit opting in permanently. Not sure why but that's what happened. Since this is a federal law it requires congress to change it.

There is evidently a workaround that at least one state is considering which is to move their time zone to the next one over (which states evidently can do) and then opt out of DST. Same effect on a technicality in the law.

For the record I'm STRONGLY in favor of DST all year round. More daylight in the evening is a good thing.

Re:Just how the law got written

[rahvin112]

Your workaround won't work, the same federal law gives the feds sole authority to decide where the timezone boundaries are. No state can move to another timezone without congress writing a bill to allow it.

Give me the hour of evening daylight

[sjbe]

Not nearly as useful as having exposure to at least *some* sunlight in the morning before a person start's their work day.

Disagree. It is FAR more useful to me to have the extra hour of daylight in the evening and I think most others

Exposure to even just 15 minutes of sunlight in the morning boosts seratonin levels, which in turn boosts melatonin production in the evening and is vital for having healthy and restful sleep...

That's fine but DST doesn't really impact this. Sunrise where I live on Dec 21 last year was 8:01am. Most people are already at work by that point of the day. Speaking locally, our school district starts their day before the sun rises for a sizable chunk of the school year when standard time is in effect. DST would not change this at all.

Furthermore any improvements from the cycle you mention are typically drowned out by other effects including but not limited to electronic device exposure, social schedules, indoor lighting, and a host of other factors. The extremely modest improvement in sleep by some people from a few minutes of morning daylight is not nearly enough justification.

You're talking about a "nice to have", but comparing it to something that we are biologically adapted to, which is to function primarily during the day.... well, as I've said before on this subject, evolution is not a democracy.

No YOU are talking about a "nice to have". The adaptation you are talking about is an extremely mild one that we can and do routinely ignore.

Re:Give me the hour of evening daylight

[mark-t]

No YOU are talking about a "nice to have".

I'd somewhat rank physical health as a somewhat more important "nice to have" than what ultimately only amounts to a whimsical preference to happen to want daylight in the evening.

The adaptation you are talking about is an extremely mild one that we can and do routinely ignore.

Citation, please. Right now, most people actually *DO* get some amount of morning sunlight which they would not receive if you moved sunrise to being an hour later. While it's true that some do need to be at work before dawn and don't ever see the sun in the winter, not even during their morning commute, this number does not represent the majority of people. Inflict that on everyone, and you are going to see very real and very unpleasant results.

There is a reason why after trying two years of year-long DST in the early 1970's it was scrapped and went back to the way things were, and that reason is just as true today as it was then.

Just maybe...

[urusan]

We should have noon match up with the sun being directly overhead.

Then we could regularly adjust our schedules to make sense for the seasons.

Why is 9-5 so sacred in our society?

FFS it's a tweet by POTUS

[kenh]

President Trump on Monday threw his support behind efforts to keep the United States permanently on daylight saving time, which took effect Sunday morning. "Making Daylight Saving Time permanent is O.K. with me!" Trump tweeted.

Can we stop acting like everything that spills out of his twitter account is comparable to signed legislation/executive order?

As has been proven with nearly every tweet ever issued by Trump, either as private citizen, candidate, or President, he simply tweets what's on his mind.

Reminds me of the time Bush '41 said he didn't like broccoli, and people acted like they based their eating habits on the personal tastes of POTUS.

Re:Causes more problems then it solves

[Pyramid]

NTP has no concept of time zone or DST. It uses UTC time; it's up to the operating system to manage the conversion.

The only decent ways for mobile devices to handle TZ, DST and sync is to either listen to WWVB (coverage is only good at night) or a cell network (costs money).

Beyond this, why are you complaining that the clock in your car doesn't auto-update twice a year? How lazy are you?

Re:To kill fewer children.

[amicusNYCL]

In the northern tiers of states (where the length of the day changes the most), children were going to school in the dark while sleepy drivers were commuting.

I'm going to say something fucking crazy, just balls-out nuts, but stick with me:

How about starting school later instead of trying to convince everyone that it's suddenly a different time now? How about making it so that children going to school and morning rush hour traffic are not the same time?

Fucking nuts, I know. But we really need to think of the children.

I almost never notice DST now

[markjhood2003]

This discussion seems one-sided, so here's another point of view:

In the past I would forget to change the clocks the night before, and I once missed an airplane because of it. But now I go to bed and the next morning all the clocks and notifications have changed on their own, and other than the sun going down earlier or later I just don't notice it.

It's amazing to me that one hour more or less of sleep twice a year gets people so messed up. Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Re:Exactly:About damned time

[Areyoukiddingme]

How is it that a moron beat out so many other people for the presidency?

He's a moron with a message other morons can relate to. And most of the time he's a really affable guy. He's eminently electable. Totally incompetent. But perfectly electable.

Changing time zones

[sjbe]

Your workaround won't work, the same federal law gives the feds sole authority to decide where the timezone boundaries are. No state can move to another timezone without congress writing a bill to allow it.

It does require federal approval for a state to change time zones but importantly changing time zones explicitly does NOT require an act of congress. It merely requires petitioning the Department of Transportation for a change which is obviously a much easier hurdle.