After many months of discussion and flaming, Debian has chosen a
new logo. The new "swirl" graphic can be seen here, and
the results of the vote are here.
How does Debian 2.1 compare to RH6.0? I'm thinking of moving from RH to a different distribution that will offer me a better *nix experience. I want to get *away* from windows:P
RedHat 6.0 Debian 2.1 libc glibc2.1 glibc2.0 C Compiler Latest egcs gcc 2.7.3 kernel 2.2.x 2.0.x XFree86 3.3.3.1 3.3.2 KDE1.1 Yes Yes, but has to be downloaded separately GNOME 1.0 Yes Same as KDE
RedHat has newer software because Debian 2.1 was released a while ago and it was in freeze way too long I think. I myself prefer Debian because the whole system is very integrated, more stable, lots of packages, and the package manager just kicks ass.. And if you really need the latest software you can install Debian 2.2 (I know.. unstable... but it works great for my friends.) Debian is also easier to administered if you already have a half of clue about Linux.
themes.org
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
Hmmm, looks like themes.org got themselves a banner ad with the swirl before debian's own website was changed:)
Re:On logos
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
I was going to propose that we switch the open and official versions, but I was waiting until the voting on the logo was over. If the swirl didn't win there wasn't much point messing with it.
I agree, the presence of an additional object in the logo should imply the presence of additional SOMETHING on the product marked with that logo.
In my reasoning, the bottle signifies the developers, who have granted their official seal of approval. A bottle isn't too bad for this purpose...the Debian developers all live in a fishbowl anyway, so...:)
Anyway, I plan to refer to vapors above the bottle as magic smoke. Debian is what makes your system run; it's the "magic smoke". All the EE's out there will remember learning in their microprocessor design classes that if you break open the ceramic package on a chip, you'll let the magic smoke out and it won't work anymore.:)
Guess I need to get about drafting that proposal.
-- Branden Robinson, Debian Developer
Feedback
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
I am the person responsible for the controversial "swirl".
Thanks to all for voicing your opinions.
I love getting all this feedback but I would like to ask that if someone does or does not like it to please elaborate on why. Just like in software saying "it sucks" or "it rocks" just doesn't cut it.
I was surprised by the Sega logo. I wish it had been brought to my attention earlier.
BTW: I am a designer, not a programmer (unless you consider Lingo programming).
I first wantr to state that I like this logo. Now, as for why, a logo in my oppinion must look good in color or B&W. It must look good at any size. It also must provide a good first impression. This logo looks great small, large, B&W and color. It also has a professional look like the logos from Lucent, SGI and SUN. This logo to me speaks that this is a serious company that is here for buisness so people can rely on Debian. The two logos are also important as you can have an official logo that you can control where it is used without keeping people from using the logo freely. You can see it as a Debian certified logo and a Debian compatible or Should-work-on-debian logo.
Well, I'm from Texas and always thought it was: Deb - EE - un. (Deb sounding like Debra.) I have a friend around here who says Dee - bee - ahn. Just like you do. (: It's funny though.. I have typed Debian more than I have said it. (Well, if you exclude the wild chanting I just went into to write down the phonetics above!)
Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore
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drendite
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· Score: 1
Red Hat? Don't you remember The Catcher in the Rye? It's an obvious refrence to Holden Caulfield's red hunting hat!
Wait.. No it isn't. I can't think of any other similarities. (:
Re:Other OS logos... Silicon Graphics
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ccg
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· Score: 1
Silicon Graphics, in my opinion, had a nice little logo. I liked the bent-chrome-bar box logo they had. Of course, now they're just "SGI": Servers, Graphics, and Ignominy. ugh.
ccg
chad @ glendenin . org
Re:OK, but the Debian/GNU "web" logo rules
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Chris+Frost
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· Score: 1
> I've seen it somewhere, a picture of a little penguin looking up at a gnu. Very cool.
Yes, it comes with the apache deb still (just look the servers base page). I'd post a link to a copy somewhere still on my website . . . but it might kill my little box;) So, if you'd like to see the logo, install debian on a box of yours!
The Lucent logo is a perfect example of the Dilbert 'brown ring of success'-type logo, where you make a coffee ring, colour it a bit differently and run off giggling with the client's cheque.
This one's a bit better - I particularly like the OpenSource version.
--
The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's
Re:Not to be negative but... Oh yes
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gavinhall
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· Score: 1
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
I was shocked by the ugliness of the candidates. Seal? Ants? I said to myself, "they might as well choose the voodoo thing." And yeah indeed the "SWIRL" design won, at least it has theis creepy thing going. (Creepy is a good word for me, i.e. old nicole kidman movies.) Sorry I have seen the Gnome Dragon, damn those guys know how to design logo (and throw frame;)
CY
Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore
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gavinhall
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· Score: 1
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
What are you talking about, Pengiun is by far the THE BEST logo in liunx community, it shows a lot non-corporate characteristic of this niche. And it's simply the best looking logo. Much better than the popular redhat logo IMO. I say they should have used this one:
When I installed Debian on a Digital UDB, I had no big problems. I simply read the documentation at http://www.alphalinux.org/, the Red Hat install docs as well as the Debian docs. I read all the Alpha-related documentation and notes I could find. I made my boot floppies, used a SCSI Zip drive as my base media, booted into SRM: "boot dva0" and I was off.
And for MILO... The MILO HOWTO gave me plenty of information. MILO works quite logically--you can ls devices, and boot any old file you find, passing kernel parameters like usual. Typing "help", I would hope, would be enough information to at least boot up a kernel.
When you beg for handouts, you get what they give
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Smack
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· Score: 1
Designing logos is a real job. Look at any graphic design firm's page on the web and you'll notice that a big part of their portfolio is logo design. And remember that most graphic designers are still Mac users.
To get better, less ugly entries, the qualified people would have had to donate their time and energy (and creativity) to support a project they probably don't even know exists. Debian should be happy with what they get.
Actually, it just says "Debian"
by
Smack
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· Score: 1
The name of the product, written in a standard font, with a slight gradient thrown in, does not a logo make. While Rob's logo is great for Slashdot (it conveys the category perfectly), it would look like crap on a box in a store. And really, it's not "powerful" or "subtle" -- it's a word!
It would have been nice if Debian picked an official symbol (seal, dog, penguin, whatever) and then required the logos to conform to it. Then there would have been more logos that were in the ballpark.
Re:Why there are two logos...
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demon
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· Score: 1
Uhh, I thought it was a verifiable fact that water going down a drain did swirl one was in the northern hemisphere and the other way to the south, and I thought it was due to the Coriolis effect. You sure it's all just urban myth?
--
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Re:I'm so glad they got rid of that 'Woodstock' Bi
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che
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· Score: 2
Absolutely! I imagine a sort of "Baraka" cinematographic experience. Automated cameras swiveling around a computer running Debian taking pictures every 10 minutes to show the nature-like growth of the beautiful native flora and fauna growing on the screen and between the keys on the keyboard, if you will.
Anyone got a spare $200,000 to make the commercial? I fully expect we can run it during the Superbowl next year.
I don't want to insult anybody but I kind of preferred DG. It looks cleaner and more corporate. The "swirl" even looks uglier than the old one. What does the heck is the vase supposed to mean?
I liked the old logo of the chicken, too. But, I can't figure out why Debian should have a corporate-looking logo. The responses in this article remind me of back when the penguin was selected for Linux. Half the ppl were saying "The PENGUIN?! DON'T VOTE FOR THAT!!"... It seems pretty well-accepted now, though. Even if it isn't corporate-looking.;)
Re:Not to be negative but... Oh yes
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William+Tanksley
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· Score: 1
You mention a Gnome Dragon... Did you mean KDE? The KDE dragon isn't a logo (it's too complicated). It's a paperclip-- I mean a mascot.
The Gnome logo (a misshapen footprint), IMO, is just dead ugly. I don't believe they ran a contest to select a logo, then when the contest was over (and they'd gotten hundreds of entries) they chose the same logo they'd had all along.
Alas, then, that it's not a logo -- it's a nameplate. A logo has to complement text, not struggle with it.
You're right that it looks nice, but I'm glad we now have a logo. I mean, aside from the traumatically ugly and soon inappropriate penguin. (Inappropriate because Debian is working on a Hurd distribution as well, and the penguin is a Linux logo.)
RedHat has by far the best logo, one just perfect for their name. At least Debian didn't wind up with one of the creeping horrors up for suggestion -- the color-soaked seal, the crushed ant... The DG logo wasn't too bad; I would've been happy with it. The chicken was just too strange and didn't have the impact of the genie (perhaps it's too close to a penguin as well).
I see two reasons for using the plain swirl as the official logo, and the bottle one as the unofficial:
1) The plain swirl looks better IMO, and should look great if we can get it printed onto CDs so that it covers most of the CD surface. In order to print the with bottle logo on a CD it will have to be much smaller, which is appropriate.
2) If the lone swirl is the official logo, then the with-bottle logo effectively says ``contains Debian'', rather than ``is Debian''. Also, since it's an obvious genie reference, all genie stories have something powerful (i.e. Debian) hiding in a mundane object (the product that uses Debian in an unofficial capacity).
damn u guys are good, coders, graphic artists [insert expertise here]...
A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field.
sarcasm aside, yr spot on wrt recognition. this kind of recognition is what's been going on in the corporate world for donkeys years. what i want to know is why did ru changing from the original? the current one is pretty good and i dont see any that can be instantly recognised as superior.
Actually, I think it looks a lot more like the logo for Sybase than anything else. Compare again with the Debian logo if you need.
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Re:Not to be negative but...
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matty
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· Score: 1
It's not just you. I think they are all pretty lame. My apologies to the creators of the logos, but I really don't like any of them. I, for one, liked the hand-painted penguin logo.
Oh, well, I'll still use Debian, even if I don't like the logo.:)
Ed, that figure-ground stuff is clever but it confuses the eye. I had to look at it for 2 seconds just to figure it out. As I said a while back, you should recognize a logo before your brain starts to read what's in your visual field. Your version doesn't work for that, although it certainly looks cool when one takes the time to look at it.
A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field.
Rob's logo looks flashy, but is entirely text-dependent. I'm not sure I would have voted for the swirl, but I have bigger fish to fry.
Debian has an "Official CD Set", which can be redistributed by anyone without royalty, but its an ISO image mastered by Debian and its contents are strictly defined. Anyone can distribute a different version, that's what they call "unofficial". So they really did need two logos.
I don't see yet how the presence of a lamp says not official and its absence says official. Maybe this needs to evolve a bit.
Old one good? Not in my opinion
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Mawbid
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· Score: 1
I thought the penguin was the ugliest logo they could possibly have chosen. Some called it simple and elegant, I call it childish. It doesn't look like a cute penguin to me. It's too artificial, somehow.
Also, keep in mind that while the penguin is Linux's mascott, Debian isn't just a Gnu/Linux distribution. They've got a Gnu/Hurd distribution in the works too (It's not suitable for Joe Public yet, but it's there and moving along steadily). --
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
DreamCast Logo for Debian ?
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coockie
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· Score: 1
Have you seen the Sega DreamCast logo ? The swirl is much like the same, can't they be original for Debian ?
-- --------------
I don't speak for my boss. My boss can speak himself.
Re:DreamCast Logo for Debian ?
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Anti-Sean
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· Score: 1
well, the DreamCast logo looks a heck of a lot like the Cinnabon logo:) wonder if Sega will ship cinnamon rolls out with the consoles...
... most coders/admins/geeks have a serious lack of aesthetics. This combined with their inability to make sensible layouts is the reason there are so many damn awful looking web pages out there.
And you know what? Saying that graphic design isn't what you do and then turning around and doing it isn't an excuse. Its like accepting code for a major project from someone who just completed his first 'c f3r dumm1ez' book. --- Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
The Debian distribution panders to developers, and that's about it. The design reflects it. The documentation reflects it.
I'm not an idiot but I don't have the time to ferret out every last little fact. I don't appriciate when the docs for something assume I'm already in the know, and contain a lot of references to things that "ought to just work" and things that "should" happen.
I recently attempted to install Debian 2.1 on a DEC Multia. Was a complete bust. The docs are just the Intel docs with the header changed to reflect Alpha systems. They didn't even change the part about bootable CDs, and ElTorito is only supported by intel systems.
What's more, the few fleeting installation notes in the README are false. And nobody on the mailing list felt like responding to an installation problem experienced by every single person who attempts to follow those instructions.
Let me be perfectly clear on this - if you use the MILO commandline in the Debian 2.1/Alpha installation README, you are guaranteed failure.
And why didn't anybody give a rat's posterior about my problem? I'm just a user.
I'm no fan of RedHat, but, the RedHat/Sparc community was far more helpful when i was messing around with old sparcstations.
Personally, i'm a SuSE fan.
-- This is just like television, only you can see much further.
I just find it amusing to see the number of people saying the swirl sucks, given that last time the logos were shown on slashdot, it was the one most people seemed to be drooling over:}
-- --
i will protect you from ideals to save you from defeat
It's all of the Linux community, the support is great. And I think #debian is very good in that.
IMHO the logo is right on place.
Tig
Both Debian AND Dreamcast are rip-offs!
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The+Dodger
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· Score: 1
Well, considering that the Celts were carving spirals into rocks at places like Newgrange in Ireland more than 5,000 years ago, I think that both the Dreamcast and Debian logos are rip-offs...
Dodger High King of Ireland
Re:Both Debian AND Dreamcast are rip-offs!
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CryptdotX
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· Score: 1
Yeah, well, their patent on the spiral has since expired.
That's the kind of logo I would expect for a commercial startup or 90's big company spinoff (in fact, if pressed, I would have guessed that the debian-log-with-vase is the Magic Cap logo).
Is a more corporate image where Debian wants to go? I also noted some rather corporate looking press releases. I like the old Debian logo because it is friendly, personal, and looked pretty non-commercial to me--a good match to Debian's goals I thought.
My impression was that they were drawing a parallel between a colony of ants working together for the common good, and collection of Debian developers worldwide working together on Debian. Each one just does a little bit, but something larger than themselves is created.
Of course, I didn't understand the ants either until it was explained this way in the last Slashdot article about the logo contest. The swirl was really the only good alternative, although I prefer their old penguin to the new swirl. The Gnu looking at the penguin was pretty cool too, although I think it was too big for a/. logo or letterhead.
I don't want to insult anybody but I kind of preferred DG. It looks cleaner and more corporate. The "swirl" even looks uglier than the old one. What does the heck is the vase supposed to mean?
-- "If a show of teeth is not enough, bite... but bite hard!"
What is a "Debian" anyways?
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webslacker
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· Score: 2
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've always wondered if "Debian" was a person's name, or if it meant something. Mr. Webster doesn't seem to have an answer. Does anyone out there know?
Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?
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Jonas+�berg
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· Score: 3
The Debian Project History is good for general history of Debian. The name Debian though is a combination of the creators name, Ian Murdock, and his wife Debra.
Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?
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Ketchup
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· Score: 1
Ya, ya, Devils == Unix...
Oh wait thats daemons... Nervermind...
Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?
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Real+Timer
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· Score: 1
Wasn't this one of the aliens on the old classic Star Trek series? One of the Klingons compares Captain Kirk to a Debian slime devil, right before the big bar brawl scene in the Trouble with Tribbles episode.
-- Changes aren't permanent, but change is.
Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?
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GenlyAi
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· Score: 1
Because "Debian" looks vaguely like "Deneb", I always thought of a star, or of the constellation Cygnus, the swan.
Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore
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Chris+Pimlott
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· Score: 1
The whole point of the penguin is to remind us of where we have come from and who we are. It keeps us from taking ourselves too serious, thinking we're too cool, getting full of ourselves. We're just a bunch of guys working together to make a neat little system that works for us.
When you consider the competition, it's no surprise that swirl should come out on top. I mean look at Ants.. can anyone discern any logical correlation between 'ants' and 'Debian'? Or 'ants' and anything except modern art?:>
Debian isn't comprised of artists. It's comprised of programmers, sysadmins, system analysts and engineers.:> Although I do agree that the/. Debian logo was better.:>
-- --=:: Wings and tail and snout and scales of blackest night::=-
A dragon stands be
Re:Other OS logos... Amiga Boing Ball !
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DGolden
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· Score: 1
Amiga (i) + Amiga NG - Red + White chequered beach ball Hey, it was cool when it bounced + spun.:-)
Amiga (ii) - "Rainbow Tick" I liked the rainbow tick.
I'm happy thats all over. I kind of preferred that one anyway, but I liked the old one more.
Re:When you beg for handouts, you get what they gi
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Starfyre
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· Score: 1
I would have to disagree there. I've designed a number of logos and rejuvenated old ones and I'm by no means a profesional artist. It doesn't take any specific training, just a good eye. Grafix is my thing, and I'm certainly not a Mac user. Yes, they're good for multimedia, but the interface is so lame. I liked the DG entry, much more profesional looking at least. But then again, it would be harder to convert to ascii art.
"To get better, less ugly entries..." Some could say the same about better, non-crashing OS's, but it seems to me like the best thing out there is free. Any true geek would gladly work on a project with only the pride of knowing his efforts were used and benefit others.
Starfyre
-- "Make an OS that even a fool can use
and only a fool will use it."
Here is my logo entry. At least IMHO, it is better than at least some of the nominations (especially if I'd gotten a chance to polish it up a little more: I had to rush myself just to make the gimp contest deadline).
Leopard seals, which live in the Antarctic, mainly eat penguins and other seals.
At least it's not a pengiun anymore
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Silex
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· Score: 1
No offense to anyone (e.g. Linus Trovalds) but the Pengiun doesn't really reflect the cutting-edge, high-tech image of Linux. Personally, I think almost ANYTHING is better than the pengiun. Especially that famous version of the Pengiun which Slashdot uses on the icon bar.
Personally, I think computer organizations have a real problem with names and logos. Redhat? What kind of name is that. Just because the founder's grandfather had given hima RED HAT, Redhat is almost synonymous for Linux. Sorry to say, that's a really bad reason to use a name. VA Research.. it's a little better... but what's VA? The list goes on and on.
We need some kind of organization which simply works on Linux promotional media, such as slogans, logos, link buttons, 'Powered by Linux' graphics and so forth. Just because Linux is GPLed doesn't mean we shouldn't market it like crazy.
Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore
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GenlyAi
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· Score: 1
the Pengiun doesn't really reflect the cutting-edge, high-tech image of Linux
I think for hairy-scary Un*x versions to make it into the warm-fuzzy desktop world a nice penguin or two would be just the ticket. Although, for those fanatics out there, perhaps a "bleeding edge" dagger, dripping blood, would work just as well.:)
As for Redhat's eponymous red hat, for brand recognition it just doesn't get any better than that. It may be a silly name to call a company or organization, but, then again, so is "GNU" or even "Slashdot".
At least they didn't choose the Dogbert Method of Naming, using random words from technology and astronomy. I'd love to use the "Uranus-Hertz" distro of Linux. Imagine the logo for that.
I find it interesting that hardly anyone said anything nice about the old logo back when Bruce Perens chose it. Now that ol' blue eyes is on its way out, people are saying how much they liked it and how much better it is than the swirl.
It's simple without being austere, it shows well in various color depths and sizes, it isn't a literal (which could be misconstrued just as many people are willfully misconstruing the swirl in this forum, if not even more badly), it's a little bit mysterious and intriguing.
That said, I should admit to liking the lucent ring and the sun diamond pretty well also. Coming up with a good logotype is hard work, and I think the Debian crew picked a good one.
not that it matters but...
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Morpheous
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· Score: 1
Personally, I am not impressed with the "Swirl". Many of the others, as well as CT's, seem much nicer to me. Not that anyone cares though. On an offtopic note, I am interested in switching to Debian... from what I hear, it is techncally superior. If there are any Debian users out there who would like to convert me, feel free to email me...don't post please, since it's off topic.
--"A man's Palm is his best friend."
--
--"A man's Palm is his best friend." (IIIx, that is...hehehe)
it looks like the top half of a sybase logo. as for most of the other comparisons, you guys need to back up of the acid. 'cept for the monkey tail thing.
=P
http://www.sybase.com
http://rc5stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/
etc.
Take a look at a nice penguin
by
Carlos+Rego
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· Score: 1
the penguin is a logo as good as any other, remeber when they said "Apple" what kind of a name is that for a computer ?
I was thinking just a few seconds before I read the comments that Rob's logo actually looked pretty nice. So I found it ironic that you mentioned the same.
The logo that is now the offical seems nice. I actually have a nuteral position on the current one(and I'm a Debian user).
I read the other comments of others with their comments of that the Rob's logo is "just a name", but the thing is, is that Debian is "just a name" as well. It came about from from the Debian's creators names. It's not like MS Windows where they can put a picture of a Window for the Logo.
If you look at a lot of computer companies their logo's are really just their name, they don't have a picture of some animal or something with it. So honestly what's wrong with just saying "Debian" that looks really neat?
I think in the end, when someone is in a Store looking at an Operating System to buy they aren't going to go, "Hey look honey, this 'Debian' thing has this really neat swirl for this logo lets BUY it!" then the wife says, "Well hone, I think this thing with the Windows logo is better lets buy that!" Honestly, you don't buy software for their logo without any clue what it is in the first place so why make so much out of a logo in the first place? Rob's looks fine, I don't see anything wrong with it being "just a name".
- My 2 cents.
Re:Why there are two logos...
by
HardLogic
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· Score: 1
all a myth:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.h tml http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1996/coriolis.ht ml
Who's idea was it for Debian to steal the Sega DreamCast logo?
D
Re:Feedback here's why
by
rasterbator
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· Score: 1
From the original submission:
Debian Open Use Logo
this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:
work well in black/white as well as color scalable (small reproduction size versions included) not too detailed the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad and retaining recognition formats included for vertical and horizontal use
The concept is a genie bottle that has been opened.
The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.
---------
Debian Official Logo
this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:
work well in black/white as well as color scalable (small reproduction size versions included) not too detailed the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad while retaining recognition formats included for vertical and horizontal use
The concept is a derivation from the submited Debian Open Use logo. On the Open Use logo the theme is a genie bottle that has been opened.
The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.
On this logo the "curl" of smoke replaces the bottle all together to embody the official debian entity.
They aren't likely to be bringing any IP lawsuits (unless someone violates the GPL on, say, dpkg and they decide to fight it). They might, however, have to deal with trademark lawsuits. They probably won't fight any actual suits-- they don't have the money-- but they have to make sure people don't use their official logo indiscriminately. It would degrade the trademark and eventually they would be unable to defend it. That's the reason Slashdot has to use the styrofoam cup for Java instead of the real logo; Rob got mail from Sun telling him to stop using their trademarks Or Else. Sun, unfortunately, does not provide and "unofficial" logo. Debian does.
Sadly the Logo Rob uses in the SLASHDOT header is the best I've seen. It's professional, powerful, and subtle. It says "This is Debian". The swirl says "Rub the lamp and an OS will appear!"
Slashdot Mirror
How does Debian 2.1 compare to RH6.0? :P
I'm thinking of moving from RH to a different distribution that will offer me a better *nix experience. I want to get *away* from windows
Hmmm, looks like themes.org got themselves a banner ad with the swirl before debian's own website was changed :)
I was going to propose that we switch the open and official versions, but I was waiting until the voting on the logo was over. If the swirl didn't win there wasn't much point messing with it.
:)
:)
I agree, the presence of an additional object in the logo should imply the presence of additional SOMETHING on the product marked with that logo.
In my reasoning, the bottle signifies the developers, who have granted their official seal of approval. A bottle isn't too bad for this purpose...the Debian developers all live in a fishbowl anyway, so...
Anyway, I plan to refer to vapors above the bottle as magic smoke. Debian is what makes your system run; it's the "magic smoke". All the EE's out there will remember learning in their microprocessor design classes that if you break open the ceramic package on a chip, you'll let the magic smoke out and it won't work anymore.
Guess I need to get about drafting that proposal.
-- Branden Robinson, Debian Developer
I am the person responsible for the controversial "swirl".
Thanks to all for voicing your opinions.
I love getting all this feedback but I would like to ask that if someone does or does not like it to please elaborate on why. Just like in software saying "it sucks" or "it rocks" just doesn't cut it.
I was surprised by the Sega logo. I wish it had been brought to my attention earlier.
BTW: I am a designer, not a programmer (unless you consider Lingo programming).
Thanks,
Raul
"That stuff will damage your brain."
Debían is the imperfect tense of the verb "deber" meaning to ought. So "debían saber la repuesta" loosely means "they should have known the answer."
I don't know what all this "Deb" and "Ian" stuff is.
Well, I'm from Texas and always thought it was:
Deb - EE - un. (Deb sounding like Debra.)
I have a friend around here who says
Dee - bee - ahn.
Just like you do. (:
It's funny though.. I have typed Debian more than I have said it. (Well, if you exclude the wild chanting I just went into to write down the phonetics above!)
Red Hat? Don't you remember The Catcher in the Rye? It's an obvious refrence to Holden Caulfield's red hunting hat!
Wait.. No it isn't. I can't think of any other similarities. (:
Silicon Graphics, in my opinion, had a nice little logo. I liked the bent-chrome-bar box logo they had. Of course, now they're just "SGI": Servers, Graphics, and Ignominy. ugh.
ccg
chad @ glendenin . org
> I've seen it somewhere, a picture of a little penguin looking up at a gnu. Very cool.
;) So, if you'd like to see the logo, install debian on a box of yours!
Yes, it comes with the apache deb still (just look the servers base page). I'd post a link to a copy somewhere still on my website . . . but it might kill my little box
The logos are under the licenses here:
http://www.debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0002
see shy jo
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
;)
I was shocked by the ugliness of the candidates. Seal? Ants? I said to myself, "they might as well choose the voodoo thing." And yeah indeed the "SWIRL" design won, at least it has theis creepy thing going. (Creepy is a good word for me, i.e. old nicole kidman movies.) Sorry I have seen the Gnome Dragon, damn those guys know how to design logo (and throw frame
CY
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
What are you talking about, Pengiun is by far the THE BEST logo in liunx community, it shows a lot non-corporate characteristic of this niche. And it's simply the best looking logo. Much better than the popular redhat logo IMO. I say they should have used this one:
http://tigert.gimp.org/linux.shtml
Honestly, I wish they'd picked that... That is one sweet logo. Sharp, snazzy, possibly even better than RH's logo.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
No.
And for MILO... The MILO HOWTO gave me plenty of information. MILO works quite logically--you can ls devices, and boot any old file you find, passing kernel parameters like usual. Typing "help", I would hope, would be enough information to at least boot up a kernel.
Designing logos is a real job. Look at any graphic design firm's page on the web and you'll notice that a big part of their portfolio is logo design. And remember that most graphic designers are still Mac users.
To get better, less ugly entries, the qualified people would have had to donate their time and energy (and creativity) to support a project they probably don't even know exists. Debian should be happy with what they get.
The name of the product, written in a standard font, with a slight gradient thrown in, does not a logo make. While Rob's logo is great for Slashdot (it conveys the category perfectly), it would look like crap on a box in a store. And really, it's not "powerful" or "subtle" -- it's a word!
It would have been nice if Debian picked an official symbol (seal, dog, penguin, whatever) and then required the logos to conform to it. Then there would have been more logos that were in the ballpark.
Uhh, I thought it was a verifiable fact that water going down a drain did swirl one was in the northern hemisphere and the other way to the south, and I thought it was due to the Coriolis effect. You sure it's all just urban myth?
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Absolutely! I imagine a sort of "Baraka" cinematographic experience. Automated cameras swiveling around a computer running Debian taking pictures every 10 minutes to show the nature-like growth of the beautiful native flora and fauna growing on the screen and between the keys on the keyboard, if you will.
Anyone got a spare $200,000 to make the commercial? I fully expect we can run it during the Superbowl next year.
You mention a Gnome Dragon... Did you mean KDE? The KDE dragon isn't a logo (it's too complicated). It's a paperclip-- I mean a mascot.
The Gnome logo (a misshapen footprint), IMO, is just dead ugly. I don't believe they ran a contest to select a logo, then when the contest was over (and they'd gotten hundreds of entries) they chose the same logo they'd had all along.
-Billy
Alas, then, that it's not a logo -- it's a nameplate. A logo has to complement text, not struggle with it.
You're right that it looks nice, but I'm glad we now have a logo. I mean, aside from the traumatically ugly and soon inappropriate penguin. (Inappropriate because Debian is working on a Hurd distribution as well, and the penguin is a Linux logo.)
RedHat has by far the best logo, one just perfect for their name. At least Debian didn't wind up with one of the creeping horrors up for suggestion -- the color-soaked seal, the crushed ant... The DG logo wasn't too bad; I would've been happy with it. The chicken was just too strange and didn't have the impact of the genie (perhaps it's too close to a penguin as well).
-Billy
What happened to the last half dozen stories?
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
"live, streaming slack!" -- who thought of that?!
:)
I did... Thanks.
I see two reasons for using the plain swirl as the official logo, and the bottle one as the unofficial:
1) The plain swirl looks better IMO, and should look great if we can get it printed onto CDs so that it covers most of the CD surface. In order to print the with bottle logo on a CD it will have to be much smaller, which is appropriate.
2) If the lone swirl is the official logo, then the with-bottle logo effectively says ``contains Debian'', rather than ``is Debian''. Also, since it's an obvious genie reference, all genie stories have something powerful (i.e. Debian) hiding in a mundane object (the product that uses Debian in an unofficial capacity).
So, I think it's the right way round as it is.
Debian: GNU/Linux done the Linux way
yep, also liked the old one. why was the change required?
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
damn u guys are good, coders, graphic artists [insert expertise here]...
A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field.
sarcasm aside, yr spot on wrt recognition. this kind of recognition is what's been going on in the corporate world for donkeys years. what i want to know is why did ru changing from the original? the current one is pretty good and i dont see any that can be instantly recognised as superior.
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
Actually, I think it looks a lot more like the logo for Sybase than anything else. Compare again with the Debian logo if you need.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
It's not just you. I think they are all pretty lame. My apologies to the creators of the logos, but I really don't like any of them. I, for one, liked the hand-painted penguin logo.
:)
Oh, well, I'll still use Debian, even if I don't like the logo.
Cheers,
Matt
Exchanging the logos would help, but consider other objects - for example a pedestal rather than a lamp to connote official-ness.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
P.S. slashdot just lost a day's worth of stories.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Rob's logo looks flashy, but is entirely text-dependent. I'm not sure I would have voted for the swirl, but I have bigger fish to fry.
Debian has an "Official CD Set", which can be redistributed by anyone without royalty, but its an ISO image mastered by Debian and its contents are strictly defined. Anyone can distribute a different version, that's what they call "unofficial". So they really did need two logos.
I don't see yet how the presence of a lamp says not official and its absence says official. Maybe this needs to evolve a bit.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I thought the penguin was the ugliest logo they could possibly have chosen. Some called it simple and elegant, I call it childish. It doesn't look like a cute penguin to me. It's too artificial, somehow.
Also, keep in mind that while the penguin is Linux's mascott, Debian isn't just a Gnu/Linux distribution. They've got a Gnu/Hurd distribution in the works too (It's not suitable for Joe Public yet, but it's there and moving along steadily).
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
Have you seen the Sega DreamCast logo ?
The swirl is much like the same, can't they be original for Debian ?
-------------- I don't speak for my boss. My boss can speak himself.
Its like accepting code for a major project from someone who just completed his first 'c f3r dumm1ez' book.
So before accepting any code for any project, you demand to know what programming books they've read?
Part of the hacking world is not checking credintials, but instead checking work.
Is it just me, or are the choices pretty ugly? I would suggest they open it up for more entries. Just my opinion. :)
I like it. Why don't we change the name to Denebian and craft a slime-devil for the logo :)
I've seen it somewhere, a picture of a little penguin looking up at a gnu. Very cool.
Still, slackware has the coolest name and the best logo ("live, streaming slack!" -- who thought of that?!)
support gun control: take guns from cops
Agreed. What's the connection with Debian and a magic lamp?
-- Raw --
... most coders/admins/geeks have a serious lack of aesthetics. This combined with their inability to make sensible layouts is the reason there are so many damn awful looking web pages out there.
F /...
And you know what? Saying that graphic design isn't what you do and then turning around and doing it isn't an excuse. Its like accepting code for a major project from someone who just completed his first 'c f3r dumm1ez' book.
---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OS
--- I do not moderate.
One word, errr, acyronym:
OpenBSD
I just find it amusing to see the number of people saying the swirl sucks, given that last time the logos were shown on slashdot, it was the one most people seemed to be drooling over :}
-- i will protect you from ideals to save you from defeat
..or "Rub the IRC and the guys will help :)"
It's all of the Linux community, the support is great. And I think #debian is very good in that.
IMHO the logo is right on place.
Tig
Well, considering that the Celts were carving spirals into rocks at places like Newgrange in Ireland more than 5,000 years ago, I think that both the Dreamcast and Debian logos are rip-offs...
Dodger
High King of Ireland
Serious, I don't understand this decision. This logo looks neither professional nor intuitive. Guess these guys have just to often used dselect...
NOM, I am very fond of Debian, but I go with Wilde: 'better loosing a friend than a bonmot'.
belbo. I support zero score posting.
--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
Is a more corporate image where Debian wants to go? I also noted some rather corporate looking press releases. I like the old Debian logo because it is friendly, personal, and looked pretty non-commercial to me--a good match to Debian's goals I thought.
Let's see...
Windows with the 8bit window-thingies that they insist on continuing to package as a screensaver sucks....
MacOS with the Janus-like face look old...
Be is okay...straight to the point & nothing fancy.
RedHat's is cool in my opinion...sharp looking
FreeBSD's looks like a bad tattoo
Debian's is okay but not great and I think the swirl is a bit reminicent of Lucent as was stated earlier.
Prognosis: some people should stick to programming and give the design over to someone else.
AC
And I'm Alan Cox, and I really don't appreciate you making such a silly logo for an OS surrounding a kernel I've worked so hard on!
:)
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
warn "Just Another Perl User" if $anyone_cares;
Woodstock? I thought it was the Partridge Family bird.
My impression was that they were drawing a parallel between a colony of ants working together for the common good, and collection of Debian developers worldwide working together on Debian. Each one just does a little bit, but something larger than themselves is created.
Of course, I didn't understand the ants either until it was explained this way in the last Slashdot article about the logo contest. The swirl was really the only good alternative, although I prefer their old penguin to the new swirl. The Gnu looking at the penguin was pretty cool too, although I think it was too big for a /. logo or letterhead.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I don't want to insult anybody but I kind of preferred DG. It looks cleaner and more corporate. The "swirl" even looks uglier than the old one. What does the heck is the vase supposed to mean?
"If a show of teeth is not enough, bite
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've always wondered if "Debian" was a person's name, or if it meant something. Mr. Webster doesn't seem to have an answer. Does anyone out there know?
The whole point of the penguin is to remind us of where we have come from and who we are. It keeps us from taking ourselves too serious, thinking we're too cool, getting full of ourselves. We're just a bunch of guys working together to make a neat little system that works for us.
When you consider the competition, it's no :>
:> Although I do agree that the /. :>
surprise that swirl should come out on top. I mean
look at Ants.. can anyone discern any logical
correlation between 'ants' and 'Debian'? Or 'ants'
and anything except modern art?
Debian isn't comprised of artists. It's comprised
of programmers, sysadmins, system analysts and
engineers.
Debian logo was better.
--=:: Wings and tail and snout and scales of blackest night
Amiga (i) + Amiga NG - :-)
Red + White chequered beach ball
Hey, it was cool when it bounced + spun.
Amiga (ii) - "Rainbow Tick"
I liked the rainbow tick.
CBM - ChickenHead !!!
Choice of masters is not freedom.
I'm happy thats all over. I kind of preferred that one anyway, but I liked the old one more.
I would have to disagree there. I've designed a number of logos and rejuvenated old ones and I'm by no means a profesional artist. It doesn't take any specific training, just a good eye. Grafix is my thing, and I'm certainly not a Mac user. Yes, they're good for multimedia, but the interface is so lame. I liked the DG entry, much more profesional looking at least. But then again, it would be harder to convert to ascii art.
"To get better, less ugly entries..." Some could say the same about better, non-crashing OS's, but it seems to me like the best thing out there is free. Any true geek would gladly work on a project with only the pride of knowing his efforts were used and benefit others.
Starfyre
"Make an OS that even a fool can use and only a fool will use it."
Seals eat penguins, don't they? (Or is that just killer whales (orca)?)
I wonder what the artist was thinking...
-- Alastair
Here is my logo entry. At least IMHO, it is better than at least some of the nominations (especially if I'd gotten a chance to polish it up a little more: I had to rush myself just to make the gimp contest deadline).
Yeah, this is offtopic...
Leopard seals, which live in the Antarctic, mainly eat penguins and other seals.
No offense to anyone (e.g. Linus Trovalds) but the Pengiun doesn't really reflect the cutting-edge, high-tech image of Linux. Personally, I think almost ANYTHING is better than the pengiun. Especially that famous version of the Pengiun which Slashdot uses on the icon bar.
.. it's a little better ... but what's VA? The list goes on and on.
Personally, I think computer organizations have a real problem with names and logos. Redhat? What kind of name is that. Just because the founder's grandfather had given hima RED HAT, Redhat is almost synonymous for Linux. Sorry to say, that's a really bad reason to use a name. VA Research
We need some kind of organization which simply works on Linux promotional media, such as slogans, logos, link buttons, 'Powered by Linux' graphics and so forth. Just because Linux is GPLed doesn't mean we shouldn't market it like crazy.
Does the GPL extend to the logos as well? Are they free software? Can I change them to fit my needs?
I find it interesting that hardly anyone said anything nice about the old logo back when Bruce Perens chose it. Now that ol' blue eyes is on its way out, people are saying how much they liked it and how much better it is than the swirl.
It's simple without being austere, it shows well in various color depths and sizes, it isn't a literal (which could be misconstrued just as many people are willfully misconstruing the swirl in this forum, if not even more badly), it's a little bit mysterious and intriguing.
That said, I should admit to liking the lucent ring and the sun diamond pretty well also. Coming up with a good logotype is hard work, and I think the Debian crew picked a good one.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Personally, I am not impressed with the "Swirl". Many of the others, as well as CT's, seem much nicer to me. Not that anyone cares though. On an offtopic note, I am interested in switching to Debian... from what I hear, it is techncally superior. If there are any Debian users out there who would like to convert me, feel free to email me...don't post please, since it's off topic.
--"A man's Palm is his best friend."
--"A man's Palm is his best friend."
(IIIx, that is...hehehe)
if Debian has a new logo, why am i still looking at the same old one on my icon bar?
:)
it looks like the top half of a sybase logo. as for most of the other comparisons, you guys need to back up of the acid. 'cept for the monkey tail thing.
=P
http://www.sybase.com
http://rc5stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/
etc.
the penguin is a logo as good as any other, remeber when they said "Apple" what kind of a name is that for a computer ?
anyway, tak a look at this penguin
http://www.3dwizards.com/linux
I was thinking just a few seconds before I read the comments that Rob's logo actually looked pretty nice. So I found it ironic that you mentioned the same.
The logo that is now the offical seems nice. I actually have a nuteral position on the current one(and I'm a Debian user).
I read the other comments of others with their comments of that the Rob's logo is "just a name", but the thing is, is that Debian is "just a name" as well. It came about from from the Debian's creators names. It's not like MS Windows where they can put a picture of a Window for the Logo.
If you look at a lot of computer companies their logo's are really just their name, they don't have a picture of some animal or something with it. So honestly what's wrong with just saying "Debian" that looks really neat?
I think in the end, when someone is in a Store looking at an Operating System to buy they aren't going to go, "Hey look honey, this 'Debian' thing has this really neat swirl for this logo lets BUY it!" then the wife says, "Well hone, I think this thing with the Windows logo is better lets buy that!" Honestly, you don't buy software for their logo without any clue what it is in the first place so why make so much out of a logo in the first place? Rob's looks fine, I don't see anything wrong with it being "just a name".
- My 2 cents.
all a myth:
h tml t ml
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.
http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1996/coriolis.h
looking at it... I must admit, it really sux. The Debian logo slashdot has is sooo much better.
:)
And yeah, it is reminicent of the Jini logo...
byebye! --"LEVIATHAN"
Ha! Isn't it, though... Kinda makes me glad I wasn't in on the vote!
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
Who's idea was it for Debian to steal the Sega DreamCast logo?
D
From the original submission:
Debian Open Use Logo
this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:
work well in black/white as well as color
scalable (small reproduction size versions included)
not too detailed
the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad and retaining recognition
formats included for vertical and horizontal use
The concept is a genie bottle that has been opened.
The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.
---------
Debian Official Logo
this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:
work well in black/white as well as color
scalable (small reproduction size versions included)
not too detailed
the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad while retaining recognition
formats included for vertical and horizontal use
The concept is a derivation from the submited Debian Open Use logo. On the Open Use logo the theme is a genie bottle that has been opened.
The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.
On this logo the "curl" of smoke replaces the bottle all together to embody the official debian entity.
-------
Raul
They aren't likely to be bringing any IP lawsuits (unless someone violates the GPL on, say, dpkg and they decide to fight it). They might, however, have to deal with trademark lawsuits. They probably won't fight any actual suits-- they don't have the money-- but they have to make sure people don't use their official logo indiscriminately. It would degrade the trademark and eventually they would be unable to defend it. That's the reason Slashdot has to use the styrofoam cup for Java instead of the real logo; Rob got mail from Sun telling him to stop using their trademarks Or Else. Sun, unfortunately, does not provide and "unofficial" logo. Debian does.
Sadly the Logo Rob uses in the SLASHDOT header is the best I've seen. It's professional, powerful, and subtle. It says "This is Debian". The swirl says "Rub the lamp and an OS will appear!"