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I wonder what Richard C. Hoagland will say about this.

Wrong moon too. Try Iapetus

Looks like somebody's been reading a little too much of Richard Hoagaland's web site. ;)

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

No, Noel, you're supposed to baiting Mars nuts at that other site.

He's probably already blowing up and distorting the images and planning out how he's going to label these rocks as tools, electronics, and a small-block chevy engine ESA and NASA are hiding from us. Rest assures he'll be telling us how these pics show evidence of life within two weeks....friggin snakeoil salesman.

Commence attack on these ideas, but this guy who was a physicist, makes this sound very promising, though since it is not mainstream, I suppose most of the eyes here will pick it apart according to conventional academic dogma. I don't have the expertese to defend this or criticize it, but the promises are certainly enticing:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/_articles/05-18-2 004/eugene_mallove.htm

This is an open letter appeal by Dr. Eugene Mallove posted on Richard C. Hoagland's site Enterprise Mission. It discusses the possibility of some new energy source breakthroughs being very close, as well as mainstream research into fusion and hydrogen energy. I was curious if any one who actually knows their shit thinks of all this, since I really don't know shit about it.

> There is no significant historical evidence pre-ice age that homo sapiens were anything more than small nomadic bands

Just because you are ignorant of them, doesn't mean there are none:

- Why do the Pyramids and Sphinx show water erosion

- Granite Coffer show sign of super-advanced drilling techniques.
Spiraling patterns show this drill capable o drilling 1/10th of an inch per second. The best we can do thru granite is 1/100th.

- Eeboom and Belting found ancient gold trinkets of working aircraft models , once scaled up.

- A machined 3D relief map 120-million years old in a 1-ton stone, with inscriptions.

I could go on, but the best place of proof, that includes photos, is
Gods of the New Millennium : Scientific Proof of Flesh & Blood Gods by Alan F. Alford

Another OK reference is Shift of the Ages

Peace

I can point to references which clearly state that Income Tax is illegal, so you shouldn't pay it, NASA is covering up evidence of life on Mars and that magic rings can grant you immortality. Does that make their claims true?

http://www.enterprisemission.com

Scroll down to see what Dr. Hoagland alleges to be Martian fossils. I'm not entirely convinced, based upon what we've seen so far, that the rovers have spotted fossilized life forms, but these rocks deserve further scrutiny (and additional missions.)

Looks like Richard C. Hoagland was right---again!
http://enterprisemission.com/

you can clearly see the antigravity device, just like the one on Mars. And obviously that's a power plant on the lower right.

you can clearly see the antigravity device, just like the one on Mars. And obviously that's a power plant on the lower right.

Here's an interesting article about a speech that could take place at the International Mars Conference: Enterprise Mission.

Which pretty much explains Bush's Mars initiative: Why bother with expensive science, when all you have to do is to up there and walk through the ruins?

Unfortunately, there'd probably be too low a signal-to-noise ratio for anything good to turn up, considering the conclusions some people jump to when they know what they want to find.

The last time Saturn was visited, it had these "spokes" visible in the rings. Now, they're nowhere to be seen.

This report: http://www.enterprisemission.com/_articles/05-27-2 004_Interplanetary_Part_2/InterplanetaryDayAfter-P art2.htm

Lists a large number of rather extraordinary changes that EVERY PLANET in the solar system has gone through in the last couple decades.

Personally I find it rather alarming. Massive oxygen appearing on Venus? Io hotter than Mercury? Radical new weather patterns on Neptune, and even Pluto? The gas giants radiating vastly more energy than they receive from the Sun?

Is this guy onto something big, or is he delusional?

Let's also hope they don't do this again.

By "Agree on Galileo", did they mean compensation for diong this.

I agree. While I believe that remote sensing techniques can certainly show things like what it supposedly in these pictures, don't let someone tell you they are an expert and then believe them on that basis. If everyone did that then we'd believe all the nonsense that Richard Hoagland preaches about glass tubes on Mars and vast superstructures on the Moon.

Hoagland, is that you? It's Art!

Being Modded (Score:0, Troll) for telling a fucking idiot to RTFM before modding? - Priceless!

Holy sh#&!!

Where can see aliens?
Only in Sedna.
Going to Sedna we've got aliens.

Where can see spacemen?
Only in Sedna.
Got aliens and spacemen only in Sedna.

Forget Mars!
[Mars?
Population: 'fossil'
No. Of aliens = 0
No. Of spacemen = 0
Main Export : Rock
Rock < Alien = Sedna wins
More like Schmars! ]

Sedna,
oh Sedna,
[If Sedna was to physically urinate all over Mars(*) as well as metaphorically then the orange dotted line on the right would indicate the most probable trajectory to ensure a good coverage. (*)This is a fairly rare ocurance though.]
where the Grey's are,
and the Green's are.

Sedna, Sedna Sedna Sedna.
Sedna, we're going to Sedna.
Can you believe it?
[free space-suit with every visit.]

but wonder if this guy has anything to do with it.

This Crazy Wacko, Hoagland, is going to have a field day on this. He believes in all sorts of NASA coverups and apparently has a small following. He was mentioned recently on slashdot, as well, as the famous "Bad Astronomer" debunked some of his BS...

It is now apparent that they might not have any type of fossil experts in their employ as well. Consider the following from the tin foil hat crowd:

• Compare e.g. the sphere on the following URL:
  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/oppor tunity/20040204a/1M129070954EFF0224P2933M2M1_str-B 011R1_br.jpg

  With the fossils on the following URLs:
  http://www.cretaceousfossils.com/plants/porocystis _globularis.htm
  http://www.iftx.com/oct03.jpg
  http://wardsci.com/category.asp?c=834
  http://www.iftx.com/oct03.jpg
  

  Or compare the Opportunity outcrop structure to the following image showing the layering found in coral fossils on earth:
  http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/navassa/geology/fossils 4.html

  So whats's going on a NASA ? Have the geologist overcome the astrobiologists ?

And things would not be complete with this interesting read from the tin foil hat king himself, with lots of pics. It would have been nice to have had a fossil expert on staff to help sort these things out in advance. But 20/20 hindsight, y'know ...

But also, it does suggest that they are being really really really overly careful about saying that there was or is life on Mars. Almost like they are scared of it.

The picture of the fossil [enterprisemission.com] featured on RCH's site recently is one of the most incredible pictures I've ever seen

It looks like part of a rock. There are billions of them on Mars, some of them have really weird patterns... But that's not my issue with that page...

He writes about and shows images of the so-called 'Blueberries'. This picture caught my eye because it's clearly from the Microscopic Imager. Here is the original from NASA's website. This camera cannot see colour, yet in the image there are very blue spheres and the rock has white and yellowish parts. The description of the image is very vague: "a carefully composited color version of this same image, created by another Enterprise associate, Jill England". Carefully composited? How? The Microscopic Imager does have a single orange filter to produce a near-colour image, but there is no way it could produce the kind of colour that picture has. Even so, that filter was not used here. They couldn't have used the colour from a Pancam image as it could never get to exactly the same angle (notice the sphere under the rock is coloured). Here is what the Pancam can see. The only explication I can think of is that the colour in there image is fake.

Second, as has been discussed many many times recently: The colour images are only an approximation of what a human would see. The filters used by both rovers are not suited for making true-colour images. The Pancan image they have here has not had it's colour calibrated. Infact the filters used to take the image are definitly not ideal for making colour images, the one used to produce blue has too high a frequency. Infact, without calibration and using a blue filter closer to what humans can see the spheres actually appear green. Both however are incorrect, as seen in the properly calibrated calibrated image I mentioned above. The spheres actually seem to be a dark grey.

The picture of the fossil [enterprisemission.com] featured on RCH's site recently is one of the most incredible pictures I've ever seen

It looks like part of a rock. There are billions of them on Mars, some of them have really weird patterns... But that's not my issue with that page...

He writes about and shows images of the so-called 'Blueberries'. This picture caught my eye because it's clearly from the Microscopic Imager. Here is the original from NASA's website. This camera cannot see colour, yet in the image there are very blue spheres and the rock has white and yellowish parts. The description of the image is very vague: "a carefully composited color version of this same image, created by another Enterprise associate, Jill England". Carefully composited? How? The Microscopic Imager does have a single orange filter to produce a near-colour image, but there is no way it could produce the kind of colour that picture has. Even so, that filter was not used here. They couldn't have used the colour from a Pancam image as it could never get to exactly the same angle (notice the sphere under the rock is coloured). Here is what the Pancam can see. The only explication I can think of is that the colour in there image is fake.

Second, as has been discussed many many times recently: The colour images are only an approximation of what a human would see. The filters used by both rovers are not suited for making true-colour images. The Pancan image they have here has not had it's colour calibrated. Infact the filters used to take the image are definitly not ideal for making colour images, the one used to produce blue has too high a frequency. Infact, without calibration and using a blue filter closer to what humans can see the spheres actually appear green. Both however are incorrect, as seen in the properly calibrated calibrated image I mentioned above. The spheres actually seem to be a dark grey.

I really hate to respond to my own post, but several people have replied questioning how NASA could have any motive behind some covering something up.

I think that some of this is very naive thinking. It seems you live in a microcosm where you have absolute faith that science will always prevail, the truth is apparent, etc, etc.

You completely underestimate the power of Christian fundamentalists in this country (good ol' USA). I'm serious. These people have power and more importantly they have a lot of votes. The idea of life on other planets is severely offensive to them.

Read the "Brooking's Report". Read it again. This is a very important document and the last official word from our government on ETs. Remember before this the air force was publicly investigating UFOs. There are many 'revelations' that would cause widespread chaos and panicing. It's just a fact.

In turns of funding. Well guess what, NASA is getting paid, has gotten paid quite well the past 20 years for (imo) very little real exploration and science, and they will continue to get paid as long as they string us along.

Also RCH has been one of they most vocal persons advocating and organizing the saving of the Hubble Space Telescope. Personally I think it is a travesty they are going to let this instrument go to waste instead of upgrading it and continuing to service and use it. The telescope has given us more and more amazing data every year, and there are telescopes on earth that have been around a long time because you can upgrade telescopes and the equipment used to analyze the data.

Think about it, NASA wants to send a man to the moon and mars, but they are too chicken shit to send a shuttle up there to boost the HST? Nevermind that going to the HST is much safer than going to the ISS (for reasons I won't get into here), but surely it is safer than flying to mars and progress always requires a level of risk.

IMO, this alone should be evidence that NASA and the people in charge of it do not always have the public's best interest at heart. There are some fantastic scientists at NASA, no doubt about it. The problem is the world is not run by scientists, and for the most part NASA isn't either.

Enterprise Mission is neither science nor pseudoscience. It's outright DELUSION! Does this look like a Sphinx?? There's something wrong in person's brain to make that kind of connection. Hoagland claims that some Martian rocks look like stoves and tools. I'm sitting here staring and staring at them, and they DO NOT look like these things! As far as we can tell from the pictures, they're just plain old rocks. To this guy, EVERY LITTLE ROCK AND SPECK is something spectacular. He's never seen an ordinary rock before. It's a face, it's a pyramid, it's an alien fort.

Science or phony science is not the issue. I don't see anything attempting to be science on that site. There are pictures and blurbs splattered about everywhere, I can hardly navigate it. I think the disheveled structure of the site is indicative of the scatterbrained nature of Hoagland's ideas.

It seems to me that some people's brains are "miswired" or damaged somehow and form illusory associations where there are none. In the same way that all of our brains trick us all into seeing optical illusions, some people are susceptible to less obvious illusions. Especially when it's FUN to see the illusions. And when you can make a living from it.

I'm extremely disapointed in the reactions here. The space.com article was clearly a character assasination of Hoagland. RCH doesn't expect you do believe every rock on his website, but if you have an open mind then you can see that some of the stuff he points out is quite strange indeed. All that RCH advocates is that some of these things be investigated instead of being ignored, or covered up by NASA.

The picture of the fossil featured on RCH's site recently is one of the most incredible pictures I've ever seen. And guess what, NASA refuses to talk about it and they ground the damn thing into dust!!!.

Is that what we expect from our tax dollars? We send an $800 million mission to mars to see if there used to be water there? We KNOW that there is water up there NOW already!

The problem with these so-called 'debunkers' is that they don't look at things objectively with an open mind, they already have their mind made up before they start. They then use disinformation and character assassination.

If Plait is so righteous, why does he refuse to debate RCH on the facts? Who is the real scientist and who is persuing the truth. Wait and see.

Actually, the claims aren't really debunked, instead, Plait attacks Hoaglands credibility.

Oh, and this article is old, there's already a rebuttal over at Enterprisemission

Which doesn't really rebut, just attacks Plait's credibility.

Actually, the claims aren't really debunked, instead, Plait attacks Hoaglands credibility.

Oh, and this article is old, there's already a rebuttal over at Enterprisemission

LMAO

here bunny bunny, nice bunny

Mars' surface is littered with rocks! This PROVES that, erm, uh.... that uh... that it's a conspiracy!!!!

passerby: What? what's a conspiracy?

OMG! HE'S ONE OF THEM!!!

I predict the wackos at Enterprise Mission will have some far fetched explanation for it by the end of the day.

-S

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/Spirit/Fos sil.jpg

http://www.enterprisemission.com/tides.htm

ABSTRACT

Conventional models of Mars, based on measurements by initial Mariner unmanned spacecraft, found an arid, apparently ancient environment without current liquid water. This prompted subsequent, highly negative assessments regarding Mars' history, and the difficulty for the origin and/or evolution of higher forms of life. Later, the unmanned Viking missions (as well as the 1997 Pathfinder Lander) seemed to confirm this barren model. Complex, sometimes contradictory geologic theories to explain this desolate Mars environment have been proposed, based on a wide variety of observed surface phenomena and features. A new model that reconciles major puzzling contradictions among past models is now put forth, using new observations from MGS high-resolution images of Mars and a reevaluation of certain Viking era experiments. Small-scale surface features are identified which, it is proposed, are the direct product of wide spread ancient and recent bursts of subsurface liquid water. These water "stains" are shown to cluster (beyond statistical chance) in an unmistakable tidally-determined, bi-modal distribution on the planet: centered near the Tharsis and antipodal Arabia "bulges." A revaluation of Mars ancient history is therefore proposed, suggesting that Mars (well after solar system formation) was captured into synchronous orbital lock with a larger planetary companion ("Planet V"), accounting for the clustering of present day water bursts around the former beds of two bi-modally distributed "Mars ancient oceans" as a direct result. The current Tharsis and Arabia mantle uplifts are shown to be an inevitable additional fossil signature of such former tidal stresses, induced by a close gravitational relationship with Planet V. Other heretofore inexplicable Martian surface features are shown to be consistent with such a simple "tidal model": Valles Marineris (as an eroded ancient tidal bore, formed immediately post-capture); the presence of the extremely flat terrain covering the northern hemisphere (via deposited sediments from the once tidally supported oceans, when released); and the current trench or "moat" around the Tharsis bulge (from relaxation of Tharsis back into the mantle, after tidal lock was broken). The long-mysterious "Line of Dichotomy" is explained as a remnant of a "blast wave" of debris from this sudden severing of the former orbital lock relationship with Planet V, due to either a catastrophic collision or explosion. Chemical signatures of this extraordinary destruction event on Mars are shown to be consistent with the model; including the distribution of olivine preferentially below the line of dichotomy; the presence of primitive mantle and core materials such as iron and sulfur in unusual abundance on Mars surface; and the concentration of proposed "water stains" in areas bereft of olivine. Mars unusual magnetic field "striping" is now shown to be another unique southern hemisphere signature of this destruction event, caused by standing P and S waves reverberating through the planet's crust as a result of the massive simultaneous impacts from Planet V debris. Recently published research showing unprecedented outflow channels from the Tharsis and Arabia bulges are shown to be consistent with the sudden relaxation of the two tidal oceans, as is the sculpting of huge amounts of material by fluvial processes north of the Arabia bulge. Two possible mechanisms for the destruction of Planet V and the breaking of this tidal lock are outlined. Finally, a new timeline for Mars geologic evolution is proposed that is consistent with these observations, placing these events between capture ~500 MYA and the destruction of Planet V at 65 MYA.

I'm curious how Richard Hoaxland is going to interpet this.

Hoagland knows: they're finally admitting to the moments of Mars.

Why should you have to wait?

According to this article, there is a theory that the re-surfacing of Venus was caused by a collision with an escaped moon of a planet that used to exist where Mars now orbits. The article is mostly about Mars, but several paragraphs after the heading "Implications for Martian Life", it briefly mentions this idea about the collision with Venus 500 million years ago.

The threads info and photo can be found here.

Could these be the worm tubes you are refering to? More on them here and here. The worm tubes are a heck of a lot larger than the microscopic images from the rovers. As mentioned in the linked articles, Arthur C. Clark, proposed the glass worm tubes idea.

The threads info and photo can be found here.

Could these be the worm tubes you are refering to? More on them here and here. The worm tubes are a heck of a lot larger than the microscopic images from the rovers. As mentioned in the linked articles, Arthur C. Clark, proposed the glass worm tubes idea.

Oh for the love of God, don't let Richard Hoagland get a hold of these. Have anybody seen some of the crazy stuff he's come up with on the new Mar's photos.

Its on the far right hand side of the image, moving to the left, you see the "tail", "ribcage" and "head" as you scan to the left.

Of course, I'm still not as big an idiot as these guys.

"The first three-dimensional, panoramic images beamed back from Opportunity showed an intriguing outcrop of exposed bedrock"

yeah sure -- that's what THEY want you to believe. but i'm sure the guy at The Enterprise Mission will expose these lies for what they are, and clear up the evidence to show us that it's REALLY an ancient fossil of the alien race that used to inhabit mars and is responsible for seeding the earth with life...

</sarcasm>

Whoa, that guy's really onto something. The top artifact in this picture is obviously a fury artifact from Activision's Battlezone! (I can't find a screenshot or my Battlezone CD... someone want to post one?)

Well, Hoagland does write books on this stuff occassionally, so money might be a factor, but I think he really believes this stuff.

I can't even tell what he is suggesting with the latest photos. Is he suggesting that rock is alive and attacked the rover?

All I am waiting for are these guys to find "machinery" there too.
Who knows what the pixelated'n'smoothed zooms will bring. :D