Domain: gamers.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to gamers.com.
Comments · 150
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Re:It's the games, stupid.I couldnt agree more. The reason I bought the PS2 back in October was that their selection of games on the PS one was simply outstanding. Each genre had its standout title:
- Sports: Madden
- RPG: Final Fantasy
- Driving Sim: Gran Turismo
- Fighting: Tekken
And now, we are in the midst of an ultimate gaming revolution with titles like Ico, Grand Theft Auto 3, NBA Street,Devil May Cry, and SSX Tricky available. PS2 games seem to be at their peak, but according to Playstation magazine, no one has harnessed the full power of the ps2 as of yet.
It was published this month (in playstation magazine) that Sony has introduced a resource usage program thingy which gauges how much of the ps2's power is being used. It was first thought that Gran Turismo 3 maxed out the ps2's power but this new tool from Sony only showed 25% of the ps2's power was being harnessed. Say what?!!? It was written that Sony will be providing this optimization tool to third party developers.
The best is yet to come people.
- Sports: Madden
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silly Re:What could
The xbox acts as a cooker itself! no need to buy a microwave to warm up that pizza, just put it on the xbox!
Is the x-box big enough for this? I doubt it since this was meant as a family machine. That means you need BIG pizza's. The xbox is only atx size
Expensive heating is now cut down thanks to the myraid of heat exhauts on the Xbox
A Beowulf cluster of ... would solve this problem much faster.
Use the controller as an inexpensive door stop: big enough for even the heaviest of doors.
Or better, use your Dreamcast, it is is real cheap now.
coming soon: a hack to reverse the exhauts so the xbox doubles as a vacum!
Silly, why do you want to heat your dust?
just my 2 cents -
Re:What's really astonishing is...
The issue is, if you were to drop the visual quality, which the ATI Drivers do automatically, despite what you've selected in the game, to the same level on an nVidia card, would the ATI card STILL be slightly faster than the nVidia card, I'd guess it wouldn't be, but we'll never know...I guess you don't know about the quack test, created when it was discovered that the ATI drivers were checking the executable's filename.
The "quackifier" seeks out and renames all references in the Quake executable to "quack." The same is done on Nvidia and ATI systems. Nvidia benchmarks remain the same; ATI benchmarks go down precipitously.
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Re:Poor behavior in a rough industryATI's dual monitor support is indeed superior to nVidia's, and their 2D image quality (the clarity of the analogue video output) is arguably very good, whereas some nVidia-based cards have been reported to suck in that area
:-)But it's important to make the distinction between an "nVidia card", and an "nVidia-based card". nVidia don't make the cards, and they don't choose the signal filtering components that go on them. Thus, there can be (and is) a VERY wide disparity between manufacturers of nVidia-based cards.
I personally own an nVidia reference Quadro DCC the card is manufactured by nVidia themselves, to their own design), and have nothing but praise for its 2D quality. I run it on a 24" monitor at 2048x1280, and it is slightly better than even the Matrox G400 it replaced (which is widely considered to be the leader in video signal quality).
So I know for a fact that it's not the chip's fault, and it's not the design's fault either. For example, the new Leadtek Winfast Ti500 has reportedly excellent video output quality (a quote: "...razor sharp images that put even Matrox cards to shame...")
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LINKS.
If you missed the discussion in the first place.
The Register : As we say, if you like the 8500's Quake III frame-rate but aren't willing to put up with the dip in image quality, buy a different card. Or wait for ATI to change its drivers, which, we understand, it's in the process of doing.
HardOCP was the first to publish about this: The Facts As We See Them: It certainly seems to us here at [H]ardOCP that ATi has in fact included application specific instructions in their version 5.13.01.3276 Win2K drivers that make Quake 3 arena benchmarks faster by up to over 15%. Either way, the driver optimisations for Quake III are just one of the (many) factors that differentiate different vendors' products. ®
firingsquad show show some details how the quack.exe is made and concludes:
To some of us, it seems like the evidence points towards intentionally deceptive code designed not only to inflate benchmark scores, but also to keep anyone from finding out. To others, this is nothing more than an overreation to a perfectly legitimate game optimization. In our eyes, anyone who vehemently peddles either of these explanations is either naive or pushing an agenda of their own.
there later in Q&A with ati explains in 2 pages that :Our goal for the RADEON 8500 is and always has been to deliver the best possible gaming experience to our customers.
yeah right.! -
LINKS.
If you missed the discussion in the first place.
The Register : As we say, if you like the 8500's Quake III frame-rate but aren't willing to put up with the dip in image quality, buy a different card. Or wait for ATI to change its drivers, which, we understand, it's in the process of doing.
HardOCP was the first to publish about this: The Facts As We See Them: It certainly seems to us here at [H]ardOCP that ATi has in fact included application specific instructions in their version 5.13.01.3276 Win2K drivers that make Quake 3 arena benchmarks faster by up to over 15%. Either way, the driver optimisations for Quake III are just one of the (many) factors that differentiate different vendors' products. ®
firingsquad show show some details how the quack.exe is made and concludes:
To some of us, it seems like the evidence points towards intentionally deceptive code designed not only to inflate benchmark scores, but also to keep anyone from finding out. To others, this is nothing more than an overreation to a perfectly legitimate game optimization. In our eyes, anyone who vehemently peddles either of these explanations is either naive or pushing an agenda of their own.
there later in Q&A with ati explains in 2 pages that :Our goal for the RADEON 8500 is and always has been to deliver the best possible gaming experience to our customers.
yeah right.! -
Other reviews
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half-assed coverageI know Michael just wants the xbox to fail, so the "borg" can't take over, but his coverage is so lazy, it's laughable. He should spend as much time on other articles as he does with his pet fave YRO garbage.
Here's some other links in case you guys want some more balanced takes on the xbox.
Providing a little balance to the Michael's rantings and ravings.
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Re:Wow... ignorance is bliss huh guys?I think its fine.
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Try this onehere or here.
These are real benchmarks that eat up alot more resources then stupid office tasks which even a pentium1 can do. Notice win98SE is the fastest here but winXP and w2k are neck to neck. A frame or 2 per second is not noticable and winXP does have some great support for firewire and digital camera's. Its great for people who pay for their os's but bad for pirates.
:-)MY only compliant is product activation of course. But on my Pentiuum III with 192 megs of ram, XP is noticably faster then w2k rc1. Its just more responsive as well.
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Try this onehere or here.
These are real benchmarks that eat up alot more resources then stupid office tasks which even a pentium1 can do. Notice win98SE is the fastest here but winXP and w2k are neck to neck. A frame or 2 per second is not noticable and winXP does have some great support for firewire and digital camera's. Its great for people who pay for their os's but bad for pirates.
:-)MY only compliant is product activation of course. But on my Pentiuum III with 192 megs of ram, XP is noticably faster then w2k rc1. Its just more responsive as well.
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Look for more than one review
So while I understand that it's lots of fun to find a site which claims that WinXP is 10% slower and doesn't do the laundry or clean the kitchen and trumpet it on Slashdot, don't let just the one site be your guide.
For example [firingsquad.com] here is a site (and a cite) that claims XP actually offers slight improvements over 2k.
Even some [zdnet.co.uk] lacking benchmarks still claim that XP is faster than 2k.
Come on now, let's do some research before we spread misinformed FUD of our own! -
You're asking the wrong question ...That's not the question to be asking, and is totally irrelevant anyway. The real question should be
..."Is it OK for a company to override your image quality settings in a game without your knowledge?"
See, this has nothing to do with "optimizing" for a game. They didn't optimize
... they fucked around with the image quality on the sly in order to gain performance. Firing Squad has an in-depth look that will show you how.Optimizing = Achieving better performance WITHOUT sacrifice.
Cheating = Achieving better perfomance through undocumented overriding "features" for only specific games.
My point is this
... when someone sets a game to a specific image quality, what gives ATI the right to think they know better than you? I would gladly give up performance for image quality any day (I'm shallow that way), so why should I be saddled with lousy image quality for a few extra frames? -
It IS cheating.
As you can see in this article at firingsquad, the drivers are downgrading texture quality in Q3 to decrease bandwidth and look better in the benchmarks.
I believe it's unethical at the very least. -
Re:Real question is Shenmue (was Re:DOA3)
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Re:Its down to the hardware.
Fortunately there is a solution. Simply wait a few months. You will be able to download patches from the internet. The built in hard drive will allow these patches to work.
Whoo hoo, this is just what I've been waiting for to make my life complete! After a long day of work fixing Windows problems, I really want to come home to a video game console that has to have service packs downloaded and applied to it!
Thanks, but I think I'll stick with my older systems that just work. I never got a GPF or segfault while playing a frantic game of Kaboom! on my 2600 or Super Mario Brothers on my NES. -
XP won't remain MP
From over at Firing Squad...
"The initial batch of Athlon XP chips shipped out to distribution were unlocked and this was not suppose to happen. Within a week or two, these unlocked CPUs will be phased out, or recalled. I'm not sure what will happen but AMD has confirmed that the Athlon XPs will be locked very, very soon.
Some of you are lucky, to have snagged a few Athlon XPs that were unlocked."
-Rothfuss -
What about Dual Durons?
Thresh's Firing Squad has a review of the Tyan Tiger with dual AMD Duron MPs, which is probably of equal or more interest to us geeks. For those of you who weren't aware, AMD Durons work in multiprocessor mode as well, and they're very, very close to Athlons in terms of performance (and obviously cheaper.)
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Firingsquad reviews dual durons vs thunderbird
Firingsquad has an excellent review comparing dual Durons to dual Thunderbirds using both Palamino and non- versions of both chips. They conclude that the Palamino Duron is the best bang for the buck.
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Re:QUXGA-W
[...] anyone who tells you that an LCD can't match the color of a CRT hasn't seen the most recent batch.
An interesting report on Solarism's new ultra-bright LCDs didn't make Slashdot, but check out this if you're interested. -
Big Sister (Mavis Beacon) Is Watching You
When i was twelve, i thought it would be really cool if someone would come up with a way to put fingerprint scanners inside of each key on a keyboard. They could be there for extra extra security when you were using the computer or just entering your passwords or whatever, and they could be sold to schools so that typing programs would be able to tell if you were using the right fingers on the right keys or not.
...
OK, that's a totally unfeasable idea. I was twelve. Give me a break.
However, looking at this article i remember my idea, and wonder: how difficult would it be to take this cell phone technology and adapt it to creating a full keyboard with finger sensors on each key. It could be sold to elementary schools so that, because the computer would become able to sense which fingers were being used for which keys at every moment, Mavis Beacon or whatever could notice which fingers were being used to type and pop up and say Hey, You'd be able to type faster and kill the zombies more quickly if you used these fingers in these places instead of these other places (see?) where you use them now.
Hm?
on the other hand, maybe we could just give elementary schools some Dvorak keyboards, and then finger placement wouldn't be such an issue. i think i'll wander off and sit alone in my room and ponder the wonderfully wierd things you could do if you created a synthesizer with finger-sensor tech embedded in the keys..
- super ugly ultraman
i post this as AC because i think score:0 is the correct moderation level for this post. if you disagree with me, feel free to moderate either way. -
Incorrect comments on MP3sThe article repeats the idea that just because MS Media Player cannot do MP3s the whole format is somehow disabled by Windows.
Windows XP has been designed to help the movie and music businesses by degrading the quality of the MP3 music-file format that currently fuels the world's music-sharing systems like Napster
Media Player never had full support for MP3s but MP3 tools can be written to support XP. On a review on Firingsquad.com
The bottom line here was that I was free to completely ignore Media Player 8 and use Music Match just like I could on any other Windows 95 or 98 machine.
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Re:AMD has the better chip...
if you're an unreal player, this tells us [gamers.com] that the AMD 1.4ghz is STILL faster than the latest P4 offering!
And it also tells you that if you're a Quake player, it isn't.
Remember, kids, read ALL the fine print... -
Re:AMD has the better chip...
Actually, according to Firingsquad, if you're an unreal player, this tells us that the AMD 1.4ghz is STILL faster than the latest P4 offering! Aside from Quake, the P4 2ghz is only marginally faster. The 2.24ghz (OC'd) does take a bit more of a lead. So, for only $400 extra you can get 10% speed increase on a FEW programs!
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Roundup of Reviews...
Let's see, we have a Firingsquad review...
An AnandTech review.
And let's not forget ExtremeTech's review.
And finally Kyle and the gang at [H]ardOCP did a review.
Incidentally, [H] got their p4 to over 2.2ghz, but ran into heat issues at 2.3. -
mail order monsters
My favorite game of all time is Electronic Arts's Mail Order Monsters. You bought selected a body for your monster (arachnid, brontosaurus, hominid, amoeba, lyonbear, etc), improved its attributes (strength, life, armor, speed, muscle, and brain), added traits to it (photosynthesis, hands, tenticals, poison spit, etc), outfitted it with weapons and armor, and then sent it into battle.
I spent many a day coming home from grade school, and wasting many an afternoon and evening playing as my mom put it "that mind numbing game".
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My quiet case project : it's an answer ... sort of
Well, it seem these days, most of the power user just care to get something like 200fps in Quake III. Why ? Beat's me ! I'm not on a quest to get the ultimate frame rate, I just want my box to be quiet as possibly can be.
To help you understand my take on the subject, here is the background
:
My PC has the following components :- A OEM case
- A 235W OEM power supply
- ASUS P3B-F
- Intel Pentium II rated 400Mhz @ 400Mhz
- A cheap OEM SECC2 Heat-Sink made of aluminum
- A 128MB CAS2 no-name DIMM
- Two 32MB CAS3 Samsung DIMM slowing down my memory timing, but preventing the appearance of the all mighty evil SwaP
- A ATI All-In-Wonder Rage128 16MB
- A Creative SoundBlaster Live! Value
- A Realtek 8139 Ethernet NIC
- My beloved USR 56Kbps ISA Real Modem. Sorry but to me a component that uses CPU power to do it's processing instead of taking the load off is not worthy of being in my computer. Not to mention the M$ Win part...
- A Creative 48x CD-ROM drive. It's the loudest damned thing in my computer when it's spinning
- A Quantum Fireball AS PLUS 40GB (7200RPM) in a removable tray
- A Quantum Fireball CX1 10GB (5400RPM) mounted inside the case
- Of course the stupid old 1.44 MB floppy drive only used for booting Tomsbrt in case of emergency
Soon to be
:
- A Adaptec 2940UW
- A Diamond Monster 3D II for Glide games
It turn out that the Quantum Fireball AS makes less noise than the Quantum Fireball CX1. I still have to figure it out
...I use my PC for
:
- Running Linux and learning as much as time allows me (Jez I had so much time when I was a student... Think of all the time I wasted in High-School running the evil W monster)
- Doing some gaming i.e. : Diablo II, Unreal, UT, Undying (Although that thing is going to cost me a new box)
- Spending numerous nights filling my brain @ Slashdot, Tomshardware, Anandtech, Arstechnica, StorageReview, Developper.Intel.com, and most importantly, hounding the web for all the case manufacturers and their take at a quiet box.
As I'm writing this post, that is probably going to be the base documentation for my Silent Case Project, you're guessing that my sleepless night of browsing have not yielded the desired result.
I've check out many options such as water cooling, moving the PC to the closet, returning to the forest where a PC is pretty far from your everyday quest for survival. None of them suits me.
The objective of my project is to build a case that meets the following criteria
:
- A silent as possible
- Accessible
- Provides sufficient ventilation to maintain all the components running within thermal specs
- Be light enough to be easily transportable (Let's not forget the Lan parties
;-)
To attain those goals I have to
:- Read all I can about noise, sound, aerodynamics, PC specs
- Find suitable materials : A case is not just a protection against unwanted fingers and dust ; it must provide EMI shielding, proper grounding, resist to impacts, and fit into my conception of the king of object you want in your bedroom (If you were thinking about plywood and a box of rusted leftover nails, forget it)
- Find the tools or the companies or individuals with the means to work the materials I choose to build the casing
For the sound isolation I was thinking about some kind of foam. Mineral lint would be affective but that takes too much space and it's not the kind of thing I want beside my bed. Form the casing itself, metal is almost inevitable if you want EMI shielding and grounding. And as for you who wonder why I have not mentioned water cooling yet, the greatest source of noise is not my CPU cooler and your just moving the problem out of the case (Nice ; you have water heating up but unless your reservoir is like a bathtub or something you will have to transfer the heat for the water to the air).
That about as far as I am. If you have any idea that might help me, please fell free to send me some bits forming ASCII characters at Prozzaks@operamail.com
To finish up, here is a list of thing that might help people wanting to achieve similar goals
:
- http://www.formfactors.org/ You should be able to find all the documents regarding the ATX form factor and thermal design guides. A must if you want to build a quiet PC.
- http://developer.intel.com/ Intel has contributed a great deal to the ATX definition ; here you will find many relevant documents including thermal design guides for all Intel processors.
- Etract from my favorite's :
Hardware\cases PC CASE
Fong Kai
PowerOn
Enlight Corporation
dir.yahoo Enclosures Manufacturers
procase
YY Computer
Psi
IN WIN
Amtrade
American Suntek
Addtronics
A-Top Technology, Inc
Nikao
Palo Alto Products
Antec
Lian-Li
amaquest
Koolance
Quietpc
PC Power & Cooling
Hardware\Heat Sinks ALPHA
Cooler Master
AVC
ekl
GlobalWIN
globefan
RDJD
Foxconn
Spring Spread
Sanyo Denki
TITAN
TaiSol
ChipCoolers
Orb a
ElanVital
Hardware\Info\Form Factor Platform Development Support
SSI
WTX
Hardware\Info\Standards Fibre Channel Industry Association
PCI SIG
RAB
serialata
SPEC
Hardware\Info\Storage RAID.edu
Hardware\Info\Cours CS 252 - Graduate Computer Architecture
Hardware\Info The PC Guide!
Hardware Bible
FullOn3D
developer.intel.com
HwB The Hardware Book
United Overclockers
Ars Technica
Tech-Junkie
HardwarePub
Webopedia
Illustrated Guide to the PC Hardware
SysOpt
2CPU
Ace's Hardware
Technical Support - RaidHelp v1.0 - Free RAID Technology Guide
Computer Architecture
OPENCORES.ORG
TechFest
MidWest Micro Support
Hardware\Resalers GeekTek!
Micro-Bytes
ALCO
ABC Micro
2CoolTek
Plycon Computers
TCWO
ABC Micro - Lprix
Case Outlet
The Chip Merchant, Inc
Cimsys
OrdiGros
ALIENWARE
SHENTECH
FireStorm
Hyper Microsystems
TWEAKBOX
Hardware\Reviews Tom's Hardware Guide
Sharky Extreme
StorageReview
HardOCP
AnandTech
SystemLogic
x-bit labs
Active-Hardware
FiringSquad
SocketA
Overclockers Australia
HEXUS
dansdata
SysReview
Hardware\Manufacturers AMD
ASUS
Belkin
MassMultiples
Promise
StarTech
VIA Technologies, Inc
ABIT Computer Corp
Comcase
Micron Semiconductor
ECS
Hardware Freeboxen
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Re:Gaming's taken a dive....
and gaming sites just go off the deep end about how great the trees look.
Um, yeah. B&W has a good reputation. Now, I haven't actually played it, and I have friends who've been hooked by it, but most of them seem to still admit minor problems. I found FiringSquad's review (78%, blam!) refreshing. ;^) -
Re:Gaming's taken a dive....
and gaming sites just go off the deep end about how great the trees look.
Um, yeah. B&W has a good reputation. Now, I haven't actually played it, and I have friends who've been hooked by it, but most of them seem to still admit minor problems. I found FiringSquad's review (78%, blam!) refreshing. ;^) -
Other Gaming SitesThere are tons of gaming sites out there that focus on news. The only "problem" is that they are usually platform specific, except for the big ones, but that can be solved by some perl scripts
:) Here's a list of sites I visit often (too much?):
- Gamers.com - Not too much info nowadays (they got bit too)
- The GIA - Fairly good coverage of major events. Very review and gameplay heavy, rather than industry news.
- Gamasutra - Industry news in a simple format, though more finance and 3rd party tools related
- FGN Online - Pretty good coverage. It's now an IGN affiliate.
- SegaDojo - Fairly good SEGA related coverage
- MS Xbox - For the people who can get past the fact that Microsoft might just have a kick ass gaming machine
- Final Fantasy Online - For any Final Fantasy freak. The site's down at the moment, though
- IGN Games - Coverage of anything and everything in gaming
- GameSpot - Okay, so it's GameSpot. At least they publish all their media in downloadable MPEGs
- Core Magazine - All the random things that other people don't cover, including interviews and stuff straight from Japan.
- US Famitsu - Currently down, with no plans of coming back up, but it's the US branch of the standard gaming press in Japan - Famitsu
- Stomped - Lots of coverage of gaming in general, with some focus on FPS.
- Blue's News - Blue keeps going, and it's always focused on FPS for the most part.
- OMM - And of course, Old Man Murray.
A good number of the above are fairly major publications. Snowball.Com is in trouble as well, but IGN is their biggest crowd attraction, and IGN Games has to be near the top too, so it should last a little while. Core is a major publication in Japan with a real circulation. ZDNet + C|Net together have enough muscle to keep GameSpot going. - Gamers.com - Not too much info nowadays (they got bit too)
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Re:What's the deal with Intel?The P4 probably has many flaws, but for compute-intensive applications, the fastest P4 is significantly faster than the fastest Athlon.
Is this right? Over at Firing Squad they did a huge slew of benchmarks and at best the P4 was equivalent to a slower clocked AMD chip. Where are you getting your info? Or are you just looking at very specialized applications?
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/pentium417
0 0/default.asp -
Also check out "Sigma", from Relic
Sigma is a game being developed by Relic, the studio that created Homeworld (Game of the Year by some accounts, etc, etc.) Anyway if you dig B&W, you might also dig Sigma (when it's out, late this year?) It involves crazy creatures, a B-movie plot, genetic wackiness, a pretty impressive rendering engine, etc. I'm sure the dev team of Sigma has watched B&W closely (it's been in development for about as long), though the gameplay and objectives seem to be different enough. Homeworld cameras and gameplay were great, so I have high hopes for Sigma!
In the words of Relic's CEO, Alex Garden, (who has brushed shoulders with Peter Molyneaux)... "We prefer to think of Sigma as what happens when a geneticist smokes far too much crack."
Some links for more info...
http://forums.relicnews.com
http://pc.ign.com/previews/14840.html
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/gamestock01 /page2.asp
http://www.gameweek.com/features/gamestock01/pc/in dex3.shtml
http://gamepen.ugo.com/gamepen/Features.asp?itemid =92&pageid=5
http://www.gamesmania.com/articles/PC/sigma/previe ws1.asp
How does Relic afford to fund a game that has also been something like 3 years in the making? Microsoft dollars. Sierra funded Homeworld. Not sure why MS is backing this one, and say what you want about the evil empire... but they've got money to risk on crazy games like Sigma. And I think that's pretty goddamn cool... -
Stay in your field...
I don't know what kind of field you're in, but I'd tend to agree with the idea that you find someone in your field who happens to have the skills you're looking for.
Most techies are inquisitive by nature, and would jump at the chance to get involved in a position like you describe. You've got a whole lot of good things that you're offering: flexible and everchanging job requirements, a sense of ownership, 'status' by being someone who's needed - as opposed to just another coder. Most importantly, you're offering the chance to do something different, by applying coding skills as a tool - it gets really, really old spending your days making the newest widget that no one is ever going to use.
However, the 'code as a tool' concept is defining characteristic of your ideal person - most Computer Science graduates enjoy code for code's sake, not code for your experiment's sake. You need to get outside the CS mindset and find other scientists and engineers who enjoy the research itself, and not just the code. There was an interview with John Carmack (highly respected coder) where he made a great point: most coders are all about instant gratification - code, compile and run. If it doesn't work, tweak, compile and run. Repeat until it does work. The folks you find with a pure programming background might not like the longer lead time that's associated with whatever you're trying to accomplish.
Random thoughts,
J.J. -
Catching companies cheating ...
... specially MS, is more fun than doing their marketing work for them.
Also, many gaming sites found this newsworthy, so I don't know why you're complaining :
planetgamecube.com
computerandvideogames.com
fgnonline.com
gamers.com
xbox.ign.com -
These morons don't anti-alias their own images!!
Why hasn't anyone else picked up on this? The thumbnail versions of the diagrams explaining anti-aliasing were created using subsampling, and as a result look absolutely horrible. This is really bad design under any circumstances, and absolutely inexcusable in this context!
In case you missed it, the bad-looking thumbnail images are here and here.
I have put properly anti-aliased versions of the same images here and here. (Isn't that much, much better?) These were created with 'pnmscale', a free (speech, beer, and everything else) tool that has been around for a decade now.
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These morons don't anti-alias their own images!!
Why hasn't anyone else picked up on this? The thumbnail versions of the diagrams explaining anti-aliasing were created using subsampling, and as a result look absolutely horrible. This is really bad design under any circumstances, and absolutely inexcusable in this context!
In case you missed it, the bad-looking thumbnail images are here and here.
I have put properly anti-aliased versions of the same images here and here. (Isn't that much, much better?) These were created with 'pnmscale', a free (speech, beer, and everything else) tool that has been around for a decade now.
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Michael has it backwardsIt should actually read.
here."over is article the. Polygons than rather (NURBS of derivative a) maps texture quadratic using was it. Dreamcast the for originally developed was which chip NV2 the about bit little a include they that is interesting this makes what. NVIDIA of history the article an posted just"SquadFiring writes Alan
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Klipsh Pro Media
Hmm... i think THX has already been on the desktop for ~1 1/2 years in the form of the 4.1 Klipsh Pro Media speakers. I'm not an audiophile, but u don't have to be one to know that these speakers sound very good for what you would pay for them ($400 CAN).
I may not be hardcore into sound, but i know that 400 watts RMS on the sub and 60 watts on each satellite is pretty decent.
Anyway i think that Dell is playing catchup and they do not in fact have anything THAT new.
Ceres -
NVIDIA 3dfx Transaction Interview
Firingsquad has an interview with Brian Burke of nVidia's PR department regarding the buy out at http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/nvidia1215
/ .
They talk about driver support, 3dfx's current and future hardware. -
Another review
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PS2 Available Memory
Phil Harrison VP of R&D at SCE Explains all of the memory issues on Gamers.com.
http://www.gamers.com/s/feature/000717-philharriso n/index There are also video explanations in ASF & MOV format concerning the memory. A good read. -
This isn't the only playstation insanity...
They're going crazy for this stuff. http://www.gamers.com/news/359382
Is it worth it? -
What *I* would like to see...
...is this stuff done using BlueTooth. It feels like Yet Another Wireless Solution, but specialized for mice and keyboards and (I'm guessing) proprietary to Intel, isn't a very cool thing. On the other hand, my knowledge of BlueTooth isn't (yet) in-depth enough to know if it would be suitable to handle real-time stuff like mouse movements. You don't want to get the guys over at FiringSquad to b*tch over latency in your mouse tech.
;^) -
Re:This isn't a discussion about design philosophyUgh. Ignorant crap getting a +4 insightful. Well, let's get this over with...
Rather, it is a piece of self-promotion by Ace's Hardware, who sent this story in themselves.
Many websites send notices of their original content to each other, especially when they know that it is excellent content, like this article. ArsTechnica sends notices both to Ace's and to /. Here is an example of exactly the same brand of "self-promotion" from Hannibal, and as regarding a (IMO) far less worthy though still interesting article.
The article itself doesn't say anything the knowledgeable don't already know.
This is false. I am a hell of a lot more knowledgeable in matters of MPU architecture than you, and I learned quite a bit. But I suppose you were already an expert on the intricacies of load-store reordering on the P6 vs. the K7, on the precise weaknesses of the K7's branch prediction algorithm (i.e. that it throws an exception and flushes its BTB when presented with more than two branches in a 16-byte aligned code window), on the dependancy scheduling problems of very large instruction reorder buffers and what they imply about the P4's clock-speed ramp. I suppose you'd already seen benchmarks which measured the effects of L2 latency and branch prediction on IPC. (You wouldn't mind posting a link, would you troll?)
In fact, it reads like a high-school report, and not even a very well-written one. E.g., "First we will try to analyze the most important shortcomings, next we will search for possible solutions." Sounds just like the simplistic expositions of a high school term paper.
Way to go, asshole. The author's name is Johan De Gelas. He lives in the Netherlands. ENGLISH IS NOT HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE. I'd like to see you post a single sentence in Danish, much less an incredibly insightful article on competing philosophies in next-generation 1.5 GHz+ MPU design.
Look, I know that there is a lot of mumbo-jumbo laden "technical" architecture discussion going around the web, often quite nonsensical and written by good-old fashioned Americans who just haven't had the benefit of 8th grade grammar (or a solid education in MPU design). The point is, you were horribly wrong to lump this article in with that schlock, and you apparently did so only because it contained terms and explanations which you didn't understand. Furthermore, you made your point, with quite authoritative tone, in a public forum. Of course you have every right to be loud and wrong in /. Indeed, I've been known to be loud and wrong in /. several times before. Still, if you don't know what you're talking about, please please please don't talk.
I repeat: the article is not a technical piece at all. Hannibal at ArsTechnica writes technical pieces about CPU design. This article at Ace's Hardware says nothing insightful.
Completely backwards. Now, let me first say that I not only respect Hannibal tremendously, but that his articles (particularly the excellent RISC vs. CISC in the Post-RISC era) were what inspired me, a bit over a year ago, to begin to learn much more about MPU architecture and design. They are written very vividly, with strong prose and excellent, clear analogies. They do a fabulous job of explaining complicated concepts and new trends in MPU design to a lay reader.
ArsTechnica, like /., is a general-purpose tech site. Ace's Hardware is all about hardware, mainly MPU design and architecture. Indeed, it is perhaps the most respected daily-updated MPU architecture site on the web. Several experts--many very well informed amateurs, many who work in the industry--post in their technical forum. We're talking people like Aaron Spink, MPU designer for Compaq, who works on what is generally acknowledged to be the best MPU design team on the planet (the Alpha). We're also talking people like Paul DeMone, designer for MOSAID, who in his free time writes IMNSHO the best technical series of design articles available for free, including this excellent article which destroyed one of Hannibal's fundamental premises in that Post-RISC article I loved so much. And indeed, Hannibal immediately posted a link to the article and said as much. That's because, as great a service as he provides--and I really, really love Hannibal's articles and they're the first thing I recommend to anyone interested in learning about MPU design--they are *not* technical, they often miss important points which an experienced professional would not (as in this case), and Hannibal is just a student with the benefit of a few architecture classes and a well-worn copy of Hennessy and Patterson.
So by all means, people--if you're reading this and want to learn about the fascinating world of MPU design, start with Hannibal. But just know that his articles, while very good, are *not* technical; when you want technical, a great place to start is Ace's.
Now that we're through with that bit of unpleasantness, let's clean up your misstatements, shall we?
In fact, it misses the point. It dares to call the P4 "innovative" and wonder whether future designs in the x86 world will copy it. Well, of course not! How many times must it be said that the P4 barely keeps up with the Athlon and performs less well than a P!!!? Because, that is a fact. Numerous production samples have leaked, with the test results uniformly and without exception pointing to the fact that even if the platform's performance is improved by release time--which it should, since these are samples not a retail product--it won't outperform a P!!! with equal clockspeed. That's why the P4 is being released at 1.4 and 1.5GHz initially, because if they were released at 1.2GHz they'd be outperformed by the 1GHz P!!! and that wouldn't be good.
Oh really. Just like preproduction benchmarks of the K7 proved it to be "closer to that of a Celeron 366 than any Pentium III." Just like preproduction benchmarks of the PII lead to the following insightful comments from Tom's Hardware (a leader in the "P4 is overhyped, clock-speed isn't everything, blah blah blah" ignorance these days...):
Well, the beef with the Pentium II is that it seems to suffer from BSE (bovine spongiform encephelephy a.k.a. Mad Cow Disease), although I doubt that any British cattle was involved. Although BSE infected products shouldn't be imported, I'm pretty sure we'll also see the Pentium II here in Europe soon after the 3rd of May when it is finally released. However, since I wouldn't eat BSE infected beef, I wouldn't be interested in risking an infection of my computer with this CPU either.
...For former Pentium users there's hardly any attractiveness in the Pentium II either. The Windows 95 performance is hardly any better and in some cases even worse than the cheaper Pentium Pro or Pentium MMX. Windows NT users would be the last ones to be interested in the Pentium II, there is just no reason at all to swap the Pentium Pro for a Pentium II.
Guess what: preproduction benchmarks are always wrong. Again, preproduction benchmarks are always wrong. And in particular, the benchmarks we've seen on those preproduction P4's are--just like the benchmarks included in the articles above (i.e. the K7 scoring only 60% of a clock-normalized PIII on FPUMark; the PII doing worse on 32-bit code than a P5-MMX)--utter nonsense given what we know about the P4's design . Thus the logical conclusion is that, just like the preproduction MPU's "benchmarked" above (and let me remind you that those were at least close enough to final silicon to be clocked at release-ready clock speeds), the P4's we have seen "benchmarked" on the web so far have been sandbagged.
Now, the common reaction to these charges goes something like this: "Sandbagged? Impossible! After all, these P4's are at most one stepping from final silicon, maybe even final silicon! Thus they can't be sandbagged!" Which is utterly false. Obviously the sandbagging isn't done in the chip design--that would be idiotic. Rather, it is done in microcode. Every feature of the chip can be turned on and off, tuned and detuned, in microcode. Thus it is trivial to ship a preproduction MPU off for validation with, for example, part of the L2 cache disabled, or the BTB or instruction reorder buffers set to flush when they don't need to, or the way prediction on the two-cycle L1 cache turned off, or tuned wrong, or with certain x86 instructions mapped to unnecessarily slow circuit paths, or any of dozens and dozens of different things set wrong. Indeed, this is the common state of internal preproduction MPUs, because the only way to test corner cases and pathological cases is by disabling one part of the chip and thus placing unrealistic stress on another. In other words, preproduction chips are sort of like beta software--full of DEBUG code which slows everything down, but isn't worth taking out until you're sure everything works.
"But," you may say, "why would Intel sandbag their preproduction P4's when they know benchmarks will leak out?? Why not build up the hype and all that??" The answer, again, is simple. If you take a look at Intel's history of dealing with prerelease cores, you find that they only hype the projects which are likely to underperform horribly--the i860, the iAPX432, Itanium--and they significantly underplay the ones which are going to kick major booty--eg. the P6 core and now the P4. "But why???" Easy. If Intel has a project which sucks, the best they can hope for is to scare off their potential competitors from the market space until they can get another crack at it. (Remember, there's a 3-or-more year lag-time between the decision to start--or not start--a project and the finished product.) That's exactly what they've done with Itanium, scaring MIPS out of the high-end RISC business, and putting Compaq and HP years behind on their high-end RISC designs, with nothing but a bunch of IA-64 FUD. Meanwhile, if their upcoming core is going to perform incredibly, why waste time hyping and giving your competitors the tip-off?? All that would do is cannibalize the sales of your current MPUs as people wait to get the amazing new chip due out in 6 months. Worse, if Intel hyped the great performance of the upcoming P4, they would need to admit that the average PC user can actually use 1 GHz+ performance...which, of course, would play right into the hands of AMD which is the only player with decent 1GHz+ volume until well into next year. This way, you get to surprise the industry, get great press, and sell off way more of your old, now obsolete chips. Simple, really.
Now, the P4 barely keeps up with the current-generation Athlon Thunderbirds. This is important to note because people always *blamed* AMD for a processor which still, with the advantages of the P!!! SIMD intruction optimizations used in much software, didn't quite keep pace with Intel's offering in the most common benchmarks. Now, the technically knowledgeable know that the Athlon whomps the P!!! in anything that isn't SIMDified, and that its floating point unit is head-and-shoulders above. But people still moaned about the performance gap in certain common SIMDified benchmarks.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The only cases in which the Athlon clearly bests a Coppermine P3 is in scientific (i.e. double-precision) FPU-heavy simulations, ray tracing, etc. On almost every other benchmark, they are within +/-5% at identical clock speeds, with a few standouts at around +/-8% for each architecture. In particular, 3D games tend to show an affinity for the Coppermine. Blaming this on some "SIMD bogeyman" is ridiculous--every 3D game, and especially a standout game like Quake 3, is optimized for 3DNow just as it is for SSE. Now, you can either deny the facts, or you can try to understand them.
The main culprit, of course, is the difference in L2 latencies. Tbird has a 64-bit bus to L2 at a latency of 11 clock cycles, with 384Kb total cache; Coppermine has a 256-bit bus to L2 at a latency of 7 clock cycles with 256Kb total cache. The Tbird has the bigger cache because the cache design is exclusive; however, it also has much longer latencies for this and other reasons. In the end, there is no comparison as to which is the better design--the Coppermine's cache hierarchy is simply better than the TBird's, no argument about it. And Johan's benchmarks illustrate this rather nicely.
Well, here's what they didn't realize: the Athlon is a truly seventh-generation core--which beat Intel to the punch by, what, almost a year and a half? As such, it has made trade-offs to be able to scale to higher clockspeeds better--one reason why Intel had to recall, and still hasn't re-issued, the 1.13GHz P!!! yet AMD are easily churning out 1.2GHz Athlon Thunderbirds.
"The Athlon is truly a seventh-generation core." What does that mean??? If you think it means the K7 core has one single architectural innovation which does not exist on an MPU available before it, then I challenge you to list it now. (Indeed, I can't think of a single innovation in the K7 which isn't in the P6 core--except for the exclusive cache architecture, which is an overall weakness compared to the Coppermine cache--but there may be some.) If you think it means the K7 is a better core than the P6, well, you're right. The K7 is indeed a better core, in that its pipeline stages are more evenly balanced, and thus it can scale to higher clockspeeds on similar process. On the other hand, the K7 is less well balanced from an execution resources standpoint, including such oafish features as a fully 3-wide FPU (as opposed to the P6's 1.5-wide FPU), which offers at best 40% better performance, but generally no better performance than the P6 on FP intensive apps. Yes, the reason for the discrepancy is partly due to code which is compiled with the P6's execution resources in mind--but of course, that will continue to be most things so long as Intel has the majority of market share (AMD currently sells out all the MPUs it can make and thus has no theoretical way of getting majority market share for at least the next 4 years or so), and most apps are precompiled binary. But it's partly due to the fact that there's just not enough need for 3 full FPUs to justify the die space they take. This is just one example, but the end result is that the K7 is a well-balanced core pipeline-wise which is larger and consumes more power than it can justify based on its ability to get instructions from cache and memory. It is still the fastest thing out there, but it uses brute force to make it there. Time-to-market issues are behind some of these design issues, and some of those will be solved with the upcoming Mustang/Palomino/Morgan core tweak. But that still won't make the K7 anything more than a rebalanced tweaked-out brute-force of a P6. And hey--that ain't bad. But it ain't innovation.
The P4, on the other hand, includes many features never before seen on a commercial MPU. They include: double-pumped ALU, integer decoder and scheduler, and integer retiring (running at up to 4 GHz on a .18 process!!!); trace cache; two-cycle L1 potentially using way-prediction to reach 2.0 GHz on a .18 process; hardware prefetch; and, well, a pipeline deep enough to allow 2.0 GHz on a .18 process. It also includes some impressive resources never before seen on the x86 side of things. They include: 126 op buffer; 3.2 GB/s-4.27 Gb/s FSB; "most accurate branch prediction algorithm ever" (claimed by Intel at MPF a couple weeks ago); 48 GB/s L2->core bandwidth; and SSE2, which will finally let the x86 push double-precision FP code with the big boys, and doesn't resort to a kludgy, die-space-wasting, gas-guzzling halfway-solution like the K7's triple FPU. On the downside there is the branch misprediction penalty of 19 clocks, potentially 27 if the code is not in the trace cache (unlikely). However, even this is mitigated by the fact that while the official branch mispredict penalty of the P6, for example, is a mere 12 clocks IIRC, the actual time to execute new code on a mispredict is more in the neighborhood of 30-50 clocks, because the instructions need to be rescheduled. Meanwhile, the P4 has wider scheduling resources, and thus may not even have a higher branch mispredict penalty in practice at all. It will certainly have many fewer mispredicts, so the overall analysis here is probably a wash.
It is, all-in-all, a very impressive looking chip, more than worthy of the title "seventh generation", whether it turns out to perform well or poorly. However, meaningless sandbagged benchmarks aside, all indications are that it will perform magnificantly. Taken as a whole, the P4 contains not only the sorts of design changes necessary to *double* clock speed on a given process over the P6 (note:WOW), but also *increase* IPC. But we'll see how this beautiful looking design translates to reality when the first actual P4's are released and benchmarked.
Blah blah blah, biased statements towards Ace's.
Ace's is in general a slightly AMD-biased site. "Unfortunately", Johan, Brian, and the rest of the crew there "have to" read the thoughts of actual MPU experts day in and day out in their technical forum, and thus know that the case for the K7--and against the P4--is not what the average hardware site has made it out to be. This is not to take anything away from AMD, which has at the moment by far and away the fastest performing MPUs on the planet, the best binsplits on the planet, and about 1.4x the performance/price of Intel all the way up and down their price lists. However, all appearances are that, once the P4 moves into heavy volume production (note: not until Q3 next year at the earliest, after a process shrink to .13 Cu), Intel will have a very strong and competitive lineup. And that until then, while AMD ought to be the choice of every sane computer buyer around, Intel will have bragging rights for the highest-performing (not just highest-clocking) chip in the x86 space, if not in the world. Furthermore, with the K8 almost certain to be just a derivative of the K7 (probably with 64-bit extensions and 2-way CMP), it looks as if Intel will take back the clock-speed crown and hold it for good. Whether that means it will win the performance crown for good remains to be seen, but I certainly wouldn't discount the P4 core if I were you. -
no screaming cindy?there isn't any [SIMD optimizations] the id codebase
The AnandTech article implied that there were. I could have sworn I'd read elsewhere that there were, but maybe it was another AnandTech article. I did find a cameo interview with Carmack at FiringSquad that paraphrases to what you said:
Most of the Katmai optimizations [for Quake 3] are in the OpenGL drivers. We may have some loops in the main code Katmai optimized, but it is a low priority. Because up to 75% of the execution time of the game is in the graphics driver, most of the burden of optimization is theirs.
By the way, you keep comparing 3DNow to MMX. Are you including SSE in MMX?
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dare we call it a sport?the same game played against human opponents becomes a puzzle when played against game-playing (AI) routines
How about this? Single-player Quake is a game. Multi-player Quake is a sport. Single-player Quake III is a sport the way NBA Live is a sport.
There is such a thing as Quake skill or ability. It's how Thresh got the money to buy himself not one, but two dweeby web sites and I'm just posting on Slashdot. I think it's different from getting to the end of Pac Man or Dragon's Lair. Same thing for driving games. The spread of lap times at GPLRank convinces me that there's such a thing as sim racing talent.
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Consoles _AND_ PC's have their place
If you want to see a BAD console game, go check out Warcraft for the PSX. The controls are terrible. That type of game (RTS) is WAY better on PC's. Which leads me to my point:
Didn't ANYONE read the strengths and weakness of PC's and Consoles?
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardw are/dcvspc2/
PC's aren't just going to go away and die. Sure game budgets may be getting out of hand (5 - 10 million) but the movie industry went through the same thing after they realized all those special effects can't turn a bad movie into a good one, only make a good one better. (i.e. Waterworld, and Blair Witch)
Consoles excel at where time is limited. You just jump right and you're playing. But they can't match the depth of customization that PC's have had for years. Look what kept Doom and Quake around ALL these years: user-mods.
So the next time, someone spouts off "consoles will own pc's", or "console games blow" tell them to THINK about what the PC's and Consoles are BOTH _good_ and _bad_ at.
But what do I know, I'm just a 3d game programmer... -
Re:Great news
have u played Deus X ? Was wondering about that game ? someone give me a review so I can decide if I should spend my hard earned $$$'s
:)
Deus Ex review index
Summary? About half the reviews contain the words "game of the year" somewhere in their text... -
Proof that Tom Pabst is a Ranting ParanoiacWhat do you get when you combine an egomaniac with a paranoid schitzophrenic? I dunno, but it smokes french cigs and wants you to touch his monkey.
Tommy claims that the Pentium-3 1.13GHz is unstable, and he can't get benchmarks to run. Why?
Because the Pentium-3 demolishes Athlon, and costs less. So he made up this little story. Ach!As you can see, some other Hardware sites had NO problem running the 1.13GHz Pentium-3.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html? i=1290
http://www.shar kyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/cpu/pentium3_1x13g
h z/http://firingsquad.gamer s.com/hardware/p3-1133/default.asp
They even ran it on 440BX and VIA boards! Firing Squad OVERCLOCKED it. But Tommy's was broken, really, and it must be a SCANDAL for Intel.
Here's a scandal for you--AMD's stock price is going to cross Intel's this week, heading the wrong direction! No wonder Dr. Tommy is having problems!
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More Reviews
I'm surprised there was just Sharky's review. All of the sites normally come up with reviews when the NDA's expire:
AnandTech
Fast Graphics
FiringSquad
GamersDepot
GameSpot
GA-Hardware
HotHardware
PlanetHardware
Tom's Hardware
For my money, Anand's is the best place to go for these things, although Tom usually has better discussions of the details behind the hardware and features itself.
Also, 20 questions with ATI, mostly about Radeon.