Slashdot Mirror

>"there absolutely is an ethical responsibility to avoid purchasing products made in China, just as there is with Israel."

Did you just compare the human rights/freedom situation in China to the free/democratic ISRAEL?? Seriously?

https://object.cato.org/sites/... (USA 17, Israel 49, China 135)

https://www.heritage.org/index... (ISA 12, Israel 27, China 100)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... (Israel #1 in middle east)

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/2... (Israel #10 of happiest people on earth. USA #14. China- not even on list.)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

I remember once a discussion on the American civil war and I made the comment that as much as I disagreed with the Southern position many things; I agree on the right of people deciding who rules them, so if the majority of people South wanted independence they had the right to Independence.

Someone quickly pointed out my obvious mistake, that the black slaves didn't get a say, and would not have been in favour of splitting from the North. They were ABSOLUTELY right, and the fact that they didn't get a say completely invalidated the South's call for independence.

I think your promoting of Israel as "10th happiest nation", etc is making the exact same mistake. You're completely ignoring all the people living in apartheid in Palestine, you're completely ignoring the daily human rights abuses against the Palestinians, etc.

The European Jews living in Israel may be having a grand time and enjoying all sorts of rights, but the original inhabitants of that land are not having such a great time. Millions live in poverty and apartheid in Israel. Their voice deserves to be represented; just like the blacks in the Southern US deserved to be represented. The same human rights mistakes that happened with the colonization of the Americas and South Africa are happening today with the colonization of Israel and Palestine.

>"there absolutely is an ethical responsibility to avoid purchasing products made in China, just as there is with Israel."

Did you just compare the human rights/freedom situation in China to the free/democratic ISRAEL?? Seriously?

https://object.cato.org/sites/... (USA 17, Israel 49, China 135)

https://www.heritage.org/index... (ISA 12, Israel 27, China 100)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... (Israel #1 in middle east)

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/2... (Israel #10 of happiest people on earth. USA #14. China- not even on list.)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

For those posting with comments along the lines of: "Why doesn't it matter if innocent slaves were tortured, the science is valid?!"

Ethics in medical (any) science is a very important, and we shouldn't encourage third-world dictatorships to create more suffering by accepting unethical medical research.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-ethics-of-using-medical-data-from-nazi-experiments

Holocaust survivor Susan Vigorito found the use of the word "data" a sterile term. She was 3½ when she and her twin sister, Hannah, arrived at Auschwitz. They were housed for an entire year in Mengele's private lab in a wooden cage a yard and a half wide. Without anesthetic, Mengele would repeatedly scrape at the bone tissue of one of her legs. Her sister died from repeated injections to her spinal column. She claims that she is the real data, the living data of Dr. Mengele.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822534/

Only if you ignore their stated ideology AND their name. Did the spyocrats tell you this? Here let me help you out where you may have gone wrong.

They were national socialists. It is right there in their name. (nazi is short for that)

But do not take my word for it. Read it in their own words.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

You can make up whatever you want. But if you want to re-write history try to re-write the DNC parties. Oh wait they already try to do that. Go on, let the spyocrats march on with their lies and try to whitewash what they are, racist bigots.

And also, German industry got a little help: https://www.adl.org/news/op-ed... https://www.washingtonpost.com... https://libcom.org/library/all... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

Just goes to show: a Jew will sell to both sides as long as there's money to be made.

Here's a graph of the number of illegal immigrants crossing the Hungarian border. Guess what happened on the 18th of October?

http://media.breitbart.com/med...

Here's a graph of suicide attacks before and after the border fence. Suicide bombers being a particularly unwelcome form of illegal immigrant.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

It's insane that foreigners need to go through multiple checks if they enter the US at an airport or port but if they walk across the border no one even knows who they are or what they're carrying.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...

The only reason this is even controversial in US politics is because the Democrats know Hispanics vote 70%:30% for them and so they know letting in more Hispanics makes it easier for them to win.

They've even let illegals vote in CA thanks to the Motor Voter law. And if anyone objects the Democrats can call them 'racist'.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca...

Existing law makes it a crime for a person to willfully cause, procure, or allow himself or herself or any other person to be registered as a voter, knowing that he or she or that other person is not entitled to registration. Existing law also makes it a crime to fraudulently vote or attempt to vote.

This bill would provide that if a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote by operation of the California New Motor Voter Program in the absence of a violation by that person of the crime described above, that person's registration shall be presumed to have been effected with official authorization and not the fault of that person. The bill would also provide that if a person who is ineligible to vote becomes registered to vote by operation of this program, and that person votes or attempts to vote in an election held after the effective date of the person's registration, that person shall be presumed to have acted with official authorization and is not guilty of fraudulently voting or attempting to vote, unless that person willfully votes or attempts to vote knowing that he or she is not entitled to vote.

Plus of course illegals force down wages, and that helps the sort of companies who donate to the Democrats. I.e. they've decided that open borders is in their long term interest. And in their short term interest due to things like Motor Voter. And if anyone objects the Dems can call them 'racist'. I.e. it's in the Dems interest to have open borders. And not have a border wall.

When did Hitler, during his ascendancy (or ever, really) say he wanted to put the Jews in camps?

In Mein Kampf, published 1925. So...no later than 18 July 1925. The New York Times, however, has an article about his Anti-Semitism in 1922, and there are letters from just after World War I.

The camps came way, way, way after dehumanizing them and blaming them for all the Germans' problems.

Well, yes, but that's because such anti-Semitism began during the Roman Empire, and the Germans were practicing such violence in the Middle Ages. That Nazi Germany's first camps were started in 1933, immediately after he took power, is not going to change that fact, but it's kinda pointless to assert, isn't it?

Seriously though, what kind of denialist propaganda have you been drinking?

Read more you fucking idiot. Or are you really just another illiterate illegitimate bastard?

Prior art for that one: Mossad, with decades of priority.

Even during his acceptance speeches, even during his debates, even in his vetting by the GS team, he called for registering muslems.

Will he make them wear a yellow crescent badge with the word "Muslim" on it?

Faggot read this. Especially the early parts. Then fuck off.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

The US doesn't recognize Palestine.

The CIA World Factbook does recognize The West Bank as a distinct entity, just not under the name Palestine.

Groups that believe that the West Bank and Gaza are a part of Israel, such as the Jewish Virtual Library, place the percentage of Muslims in Israel at 20.7% of the total Israeli population.

A small continuous population, that doesn't give them the right to a self-governing state in that territory any more than it does small minorities in other states.

Land claims from well over 1000+ years ago notwithstanding.

The Jewish people have lived in the land of Israel for at least 3,300 years and have hand multiple self-governing states in that land. They don't have "land clams from well over 1000+ years ago," they have had a continuous claim for thousands of years. Invading powers have prevented them from reestablishing their state until 70 year ago.

Being a small minority doesn't mean you get to own the land, and old land claims go away after a few hundred years, much less 1000+.

Can you offer any other groups who ruled a territory over 1000 years ago whom you think have a better claim to the land than its current owners?

And the Jewish immigration was part of a specific plan to create a Jewish homeland. The massive Jewish immigration between 1920 and 1949 was during the Mandate when the British were in change and the local Arab population was unable to manage immigration.

First, Jews had been returning to the land of Israel since at least the 1880s, and the wider population still had ties to their homeland.

They were not so much trying to "create a Jewish homeland" as rebuild it. They have had to do the same thing more than once as invading powers through history have taken away the Israelis only for them to return home later.

And that return to Israel was Zionism, part of the explicit plan I referred to.

And it wasn't their homeland, it was the homeland of their ancient ancestors, who probably took it from someone else's ancient ancestors. Some of those invaders taking their homeland were likely under the impression that they were retaking their own homeland like the Palestinians are trying to now.

Why do ancient land claims only count for the Jews?

Second, why is it that only Jews returning to the land of Israel bother you when Arabs were migrating to those lands at the same time? Are you unaware of the massive movement of Arabs into that areas during the same decades? Where is your outrage about that?

Arabs were already the majority population. They weren't part of a planned demographic change and land seizure. There's nothing to be outraged about.

Third, here is a map of Arab lands and Israel. Could you explain why you think the Arabs have to possess the tiny dot that is Israel too? Don't they have enough land?

Because the land was not Israel's to take. And Arabs are not some amorphous blob, those were actual people who saw another ethnic group come in and take control of their territory.

Of course the Palestinian Arabs disagreed. A different ethnic group declares they're going to start colonizing your territory to create their own state, they then proceed to do so while you're under foreign occupation by states who generally side with the other ethnic group.

Excuse me, but what do you mean "colonizing your territory"? What makes you think it was theirs? You just seem to assume that without proof. What proof do you have?

MYTH - “Palestine was always an Arab country.”

I never claimed Palestine was an Arab country, though the Ottoman's gave them fairly decent autonomy. I claimed that it was Arab territory, as in territory with a huge Arab majority and Arab culture.

And I'm sorry but that site is ridiculous.

Just look at how they acknowledge that Palestine had a huge Arab majority for hundreds, probably more than a thousand years.

Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population afte

A small continuous population, that doesn't give them the right to a self-governing state in that territory any more than it does small minorities in other states.

Land claims from well over 1000+ years ago notwithstanding.

The Jewish people have lived in the land of Israel for at least 3,300 years and have hand multiple self-governing states in that land. They don't have "land clams from well over 1000+ years ago," they have had a continuous claim for thousands of years. Invading powers have prevented them from reestablishing their state until 70 year ago.

And the Jewish immigration was part of a specific plan to create a Jewish homeland. The massive Jewish immigration between 1920 and 1949 was during the Mandate when the British were in change and the local Arab population was unable to manage immigration.

First, Jews had been returning to the land of Israel since at least the 1880s, and the wider population still had ties to their homeland.

They were not so much trying to "create a Jewish homeland" as rebuild it. They have had to do the same thing more than once as invading powers through history have taken away the Israelis only for them to return home later.

Second, why is it that only Jews returning to the land of Israel bother you when Arabs were migrating to those lands at the same time? Are you unaware of the massive movement of Arabs into that areas during the same decades? Where is your outrage about that?

Third, here is a map of Arab lands and Israel. Could you explain why you think the Arabs have to possess the tiny dot that is Israel too? Don't they have enough land?

Of course the Palestinian Arabs disagreed. A different ethnic group declares they're going to start colonizing your territory to create their own state, they then proceed to do so while you're under foreign occupation by states who generally side with the other ethnic group.

Excuse me, but what do you mean "colonizing your territory"? What makes you think it was theirs? You just seem to assume that without proof. What proof do you have?

MYTH - “Palestine was always an Arab country.”

Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States. 4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than 3,000 years old today.

Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”5

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. 6

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.” 7 The repr

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees from the aftermath of the 1948 Israeli War of Independence and the 1967 Six Day War, little is said about the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to flee from Arab states before and after the creation of Israel. In fact, these refugees were largely forgotten because they were assimilated into their new homes, most in Israel, and neither the United Nations nor any other international agency took up their cause or demanded restitution for the property and money taken from them. ... more

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees from the aftermath of the 1948 Israeli War of Independence and the 1967 Six Day War, little is said about the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to flee from Arab states before and after the creation of Israel. In fact, these refugees were largely forgotten because they were assimilated into their new homes, most in Israel, and neither the United Nations nor any other international agency took up their cause or demanded restitution for the property and money taken from them. ... more

The current Israelis are from Eurpoe, and simple thieves and murderers. I'm in no way anti-Semitic, I'm anti asshole. It's the normal typical wolf cry of a thouroughly discredited bunch of muderous theiving liars to make that claim.

You're "anti asshole"? How do you live with yourself? Well, at least we have it on your authority that you are, "in no way anti-Semitic." @@
.
Israeli Jews, by Region of Origin

2003
14% Asia
16% Africa
15% Europe
  4% Americas
22% Former USSR
29% Israel (Native)
Total Population 5,165,400

Operation Solomon - one of several rescues .....

Ethiopian Jews and Israelis Exult as Airlift Is Completed

Israel fell into joyous celebration tonight as the Government announced the successful conclusion of an emergency airlift of 14,500 Ethiopian Jews, nearly the entire Jewish population, in just under 36 hours.

At the airport this morning, it was difficult to tell who was more joyful -- the barefoot Ethiopians who cheered, ululated and bent down to kiss the tarmac as they stepped off the planes, or the Israelis who watched them aglow, marveling at this powerful image showing that their state still holds appeal, even with all its problems.

"We've stood up to our obligation and completed the operation bringing all the Jews," Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declared tonight. "It gives us a feeling of strength."

Israelis were no less wondrous at the operational accomplishment of ferrying so many people more than 1,500 miles in 40 flights over so short a time. The air force said 35 civilian and military airplanes, including one Ethiopian airliner, had been used in the operation.

---------------

Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries

COORDINATING A PROGRAM OF EXPULSION

In a key address before the Political Committee of the U.N. General Assembly on November 14, 1947, just five days before that body voted on the partition plan for Palestine, Heykal Pasha, an Egyptian delegate, made the following key statement in connection with that plan:

The United Nations . . . should not lose sight of the fact that the proposed solution might endanger a million Jews living in the Moslem countries. Partition of Palestine might create in those countries an anti-Semitism even more difficult to root out than the anti-Semitism which the Allies were trying to eradicate in Germany. . . If the United Nations decides to partition Palestine, it might be responsible for the massacre of a large number of Jews.

Heykal Pasha then elaborated on his threat:

A million Jews live in peace in Egypt [and other Muslim countries] and enjoy all rights of citizenship. They have no desire to emigrate to Palestine. However, if a Jewish State were established, nobody could prevent disorders. Riots would break out in Palestine, would spread through all the Arab states and might lead to a war between two races.1

Heykal Pasha's thinly veiled threats of "grave disorders," "massacre," "riots," and "war between two races" did not at the time go unnoticed by Jews;2 for them, it had the same ring as the proposition made six years earlier by the Palestinian leader Hajj Amin al-Husayni to Hitler of a "final solution" for the Jews of Arab countries, including Palestine. ... "3 . . . more

The current Israelis are from Eurpoe, and simple thieves and murderers. I'm in no way anti-Semitic, I'm anti asshole. It's the normal typical wolf cry of a thouroughly discredited bunch of muderous theiving liars to make that claim.

You're "anti asshole"? How do you live with yourself? Well, at least we have it on your authority that you are, "in no way anti-Semitic." @@
.
Israeli Jews, by Region of Origin

2003
14% Asia
16% Africa
15% Europe
  4% Americas
22% Former USSR
29% Israel (Native)
Total Population 5,165,400

Operation Solomon - one of several rescues .....

Ethiopian Jews and Israelis Exult as Airlift Is Completed

Israel fell into joyous celebration tonight as the Government announced the successful conclusion of an emergency airlift of 14,500 Ethiopian Jews, nearly the entire Jewish population, in just under 36 hours.

At the airport this morning, it was difficult to tell who was more joyful -- the barefoot Ethiopians who cheered, ululated and bent down to kiss the tarmac as they stepped off the planes, or the Israelis who watched them aglow, marveling at this powerful image showing that their state still holds appeal, even with all its problems.

"We've stood up to our obligation and completed the operation bringing all the Jews," Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declared tonight. "It gives us a feeling of strength."

Israelis were no less wondrous at the operational accomplishment of ferrying so many people more than 1,500 miles in 40 flights over so short a time. The air force said 35 civilian and military airplanes, including one Ethiopian airliner, had been used in the operation.

---------------

Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries

COORDINATING A PROGRAM OF EXPULSION

In a key address before the Political Committee of the U.N. General Assembly on November 14, 1947, just five days before that body voted on the partition plan for Palestine, Heykal Pasha, an Egyptian delegate, made the following key statement in connection with that plan:

The United Nations . . . should not lose sight of the fact that the proposed solution might endanger a million Jews living in the Moslem countries. Partition of Palestine might create in those countries an anti-Semitism even more difficult to root out than the anti-Semitism which the Allies were trying to eradicate in Germany. . . If the United Nations decides to partition Palestine, it might be responsible for the massacre of a large number of Jews.

Heykal Pasha then elaborated on his threat:

A million Jews live in peace in Egypt [and other Muslim countries] and enjoy all rights of citizenship. They have no desire to emigrate to Palestine. However, if a Jewish State were established, nobody could prevent disorders. Riots would break out in Palestine, would spread through all the Arab states and might lead to a war between two races.1

Heykal Pasha's thinly veiled threats of "grave disorders," "massacre," "riots," and "war between two races" did not at the time go unnoticed by Jews;2 for them, it had the same ring as the proposition made six years earlier by the Palestinian leader Hajj Amin al-Husayni to Hitler of a "final solution" for the Jews of Arab countries, including Palestine. ... "3 . . . more

"the IBM punch card and card sorting system-a precursor to the computer. IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success. IBM Germany, using its own staff and equipment, designed, executed, and supplied the indispensable technologic assistance Hitler's Third Reich needed to accomplish what had never been done before-the automation of human destruction. More than 2,000 such multi-machine sets were dispatched throughout Germany, and thousands more throughout German-dominated Europe"
https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

cite, or stfu

Josef Mengele

In this link they discuss the ethics of using the data, and the data has been used several times that I know of.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

That brings up a good point. That is probably why the government automatically deducts taxes from the paychecks of most employees.

Then maybe your duty even extends to things like civil disobedience to try and obstruct you government from behaving in this way? I am not sure I actually agree with this, but I do understand people who do.

There is an interesting side point to this though with regard to Israel in that US taxpayers do help foot the bill to pay for their armed forces. They also pay a sizable amount to Egypt to keep the military there Israel friendly and maintain the blockade of Gaza.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...

Does this make US citizens compliant also for the deeds of the Israeli armed forces? $3.1 billion is quite a lot after all.

Of course the problem with this argument is that in many cases the US taxpayer simply has no idea what their money is spent on.

What you write is complete and utter bullshit and you clearly know nothing factual about the history of the region. The fact is that there was never more than 8% Jew in the land we call Palestine/Israel today, until the Jews decided to create a racist Jew only state in that land in the late 1800's. All of the troubles stem from this. Trying to create a Jew only state on land that was inhabited by fewer than 8% Jews.

Don't believe it? Well tell it to your Jewish friends - they might need to change history to suit your ridiculous viewpoint!
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

"Who's right? Who's wrong? I don't know, but history is quite an eye opener." It is easy to answer this question! The Jews are wrong and Hamas is right. Hamas has the right to resist the occupation and annexation of their land, and their exclusion from living on it as equals under the law, using violence. That is their right. Israel does not have the right to claim self-defence when it acts to defend the existence of Israel wherever Israel is defined as a Jew only state built on the land of the refugees to whom it refuses the right to return to live as equals under the law on the land. When Israel accepts the right of return of the refugees to live in the land as equals under the law, then Israel can claim that it is a legitimate state and has the right the defend itself.

Look, you are obviously a bit doughy, so here is a simple analogy for your tiny brain to process: I break into your house and start raping your wife. You try to defend her by attacking me with your puny body. I turn around and snap your head off of your body. The police come to arrest me. I tell them that I was acting in self-defence - because you attacked me. The "Community", which consists of people under my control and in my pay, agree with me and I am accordingly rewarded for heroically managing to defend myself against your attack by being allowed into your 18 year old daughters bedroom for some more "fun"! That is the best analogy of the Israel/Palestine conflict which has ever been written.

"That area has been inhabited by Jews for centuries" - the population of Jews was less than 8%. Sure there were some Jews there, but only 8%. The Jews decided in 1897 to create a Jew only state on a land that contained only 8% Jews. That is the entire cause of the "conflict". Here are the numbers from a Jewish, pro-Israel website:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

"In addition in modern Israel 20% of the citizens are muslim arabs with the same rights as everyone."
Those Arabs are the descendants of Arabs who were already living on the land before 1948. The Jews tried to get rid of them, many fled in terror but unfortunately for the Jews, some of them did not. If Muslim Arabs are so welcome in Israel, then please tell us how many Muslim Arabs immigrated to Israel and became full Israeli citizens last year compared to Jews? How about over the last 10 years?

"PS : The word Palestine that you mean is a modern invention. The ancient Palestine is something completely different."
Spare us your crappy word plays. The word Palestinian has come to mean: "A non-Jewish person who has the right to live in the land which in modern days is called Palestine/Israel". Just like the word Anti-Semite in modern times has come to mean a person (like me) who dislikes Jews - their beliefs, their culture and their behaviour even though the word "Semite" does not mean "Jew".

You are full of shit. What the fuck has gotten into Slashdot? The numbers show the Israelis to be the aggressors.

What? Just because the Israeli military is effective compared to Hamas military incompetence that makes Israel the aggressor?

Sorry, getting your ass kicked doesn't automatically make you a victim. You ain't the victim if you start the fight.

Got the balls to respond with the total number of rockets Hamas has launched at Israeli civilians in the last decade?

Nah, you don't have the nads to answer that truthfully, no do you?

You'd think that, having lived through a genocide, they wouldn't attempt to do the same to another people.

And between Hamas and Isreal, which one openly calls to "wipe [the other] off the map"?

Hint - they don't wear yarmulkas.

Why is that? I bet you don't have the balls to look up dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb and how those Islamic tenets impact the Middle East in general and Muslim attitudes towards Israel in particular.

Again - you == no balls.

Right now, Israel is doing 99% of the committing war crimes. That may have been different in the past, and it may change in the future, but it is NO EXCUSE.

Grow a brain. Please. You wouldn't be such a useless idiot if you were able to think instead of just regurgitate shit you've been force-fed.

You are full of shit. What the fuck has gotten into Slashdot? The numbers show the Israelis to be the aggressors. You'd think that, having lived through a genocide, they wouldn't attempt to do the same to another people.

2008 cease-fire. Look at the number of rocket and mortar *launches*. The cease-fire was honored by the Palestinians. Israel went over the border and killed 6 Hamas members, violating the cease-fire.

On 4 November 2008, the IDF made an incursion at least 250 meters into the Gaza Strip searching for a tunnel, claiming it was intended for the capture of Israeli soldiers and that it intended to continue with the truce, calling the raid a "pinpoint operation".[33] Hamas and, according to an allegation by Dr. Robert Pastor, one IDF source maintained that it was for defensive purposes.[34] As six Hamas fighters were killed,[4][35] Hamas stated that the attack was a "massive breach of the truce".[36]

This year, the Israeli president announces that they can never relinquish control of the West Bank. Meaning they will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state.

"I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan."

Just a week ago, the UN called out Israel for using Palestinian children as a human shield, torturing them, putting them in solitary confinement, and threatening sexual abuse. Their foreign minister said, "Israel must go all the way."

What the fuck are you people smoking? This is a genocide in motion. The US government wholeheartedly, 100%, with NO dissent supports it, when only 87% of the Israelis themselves support it. The House of Reps even called the attacks "unprovoked". I mean, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?

For the record, I don't support either side shooting at each other, but it's not hard to see that this is some seriously fucked up shit on Israel's part. No person or group should engage in genocide and war crimes. Right now, Israel is doing 99% of the committing war crimes. That may have been different in the past, and it may change in the future, but it is NO EXCUSE.

Here are the facts:

1. Between 1600's and 1900's there was roughly only 8% Jew in the land of Palestine. Even back to biblical times there was never a majority of Jew in the land. NEVER.

e.g. "Year Arab Population Jewish Population
1600 250,000 5,000
1850 480,000 17,000
1890 530,000 43,000
1922 590,000 84,000
1931 760,000 174,000
1939 900,000 450,000
1948 980,000 650,000
1954 192,000 1,530,000
1969 423,000 2,500,000
1989 843,000 3,700,000
1997 1,120,000 4,640,000"
http://www.torah.org/learning/...

see also:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

2. In late 1800's the Jew decided that they would create racist Jew only state on the land which had been and still was mainly inhabited by non-Jewish people.

E.g. "Zionism seeks to establish a home for the Jewish people in EretzIsrael secured under public law. The Congress contemplates the following means to the attainment of this end:

A. The promotion by appropriate means of the settlement in Eretz-Israel of Jewish farmers, artisans, and manufacturers.
B. The organization and uniting of the whole of Jewry by means of appropriate institutions, both local and international, in accordance with the laws of each country.
C. The strengthening and fostering of Jewish national sentiment and national consciousness.
D. Preparatory steps toward obtaining the consent of governments, where necessary, in order to reach the goals of Zionism."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

3. As a result of the Jew actions to commit this Demographic Genocide, by all means foul and fair, many Arabs fled their homes and land and now live in the Gaza, West Bank, surrounding Arab countries and elsewhere and are correctly called refugees.

4. The Jew did not allow the refugees to return to the land as is their responsibility because the aim was and is to create a Jew only racist state on the land of Palestine/Greater Israel.

5. The refugees have the right to return to the land and to live as equal citizens, with the Jew, in peace, under the law in the land.

6. They do not have the right to expel the Jew who has purposefully created "facts on the ground" which would lead to a humanitarian crisis should they be removed and would form yet another Ethnic Cleansing/Genocide.

7. Until the refugees (and their descendents) are allowed to return to live as equal citizens on the land, they will continue to violently oppose their expulsion from and the occupation of their land, as is their right. That is the true self-defence here, by the way. When the Palestinians attack "Israel", that is self-defence. It is defence of their land. When the "Israelis" attack, that is not self-defence. You cannot be the aggressor from the outset and then claim that you are acting in self-defence.

You see, it is very simple. The Jew stole the land and kicked out the non-Jewish population. Now the Jew says that they want to "have peace". Well what do they mean by peace? What they mean is the following: We want to be able to steal your land, all of it, to disallow you to return to your land, to mistreat you, to kill you, to kill your children, and we want you to give us peace in return.

That is what they mean by the word "peace", it is very different to what non-Jewish people think the word means.

Here are the facts:

1. Between 1600's and 1900's there was roughly only 8% Jew in the land of Palestine. Even back to biblical times there was never a majority of Jew in the land. NEVER.

e.g. "Year Arab Population Jewish Population
1600 250,000 5,000
1850 480,000 17,000
1890 530,000 43,000
1922 590,000 84,000
1931 760,000 174,000
1939 900,000 450,000
1948 980,000 650,000
1954 192,000 1,530,000
1969 423,000 2,500,000
1989 843,000 3,700,000
1997 1,120,000 4,640,000"
http://www.torah.org/learning/...

see also:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

2. In late 1800's the Jew decided that they would create racist Jew only state on the land which had been and still was mainly inhabited by non-Jewish people.

E.g. "Zionism seeks to establish a home for the Jewish people in EretzIsrael secured under public law. The Congress contemplates the following means to the attainment of this end:

A. The promotion by appropriate means of the settlement in Eretz-Israel of Jewish farmers, artisans, and manufacturers.
B. The organization and uniting of the whole of Jewry by means of appropriate institutions, both local and international, in accordance with the laws of each country.
C. The strengthening and fostering of Jewish national sentiment and national consciousness.
D. Preparatory steps toward obtaining the consent of governments, where necessary, in order to reach the goals of Zionism."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

3. As a result of the Jew actions to commit this Demographic Genocide, by all means foul and fair, many Arabs fled their homes and land and now live in the Gaza, West Bank, surrounding Arab countries and elsewhere and are correctly called refugees.

4. The Jew did not allow the refugees to return to the land as is their responsibility because the aim was and is to create a Jew only racist state on the land of Palestine/Greater Israel.

5. The refugees have the right to return to the land and to live as equal citizens, with the Jew, in peace, under the law in the land.

6. They do not have the right to expel the Jew who has purposefully created "facts on the ground" which would lead to a humanitarian crisis should they be removed and would form yet another Ethnic Cleansing/Genocide.

7. Until the refugees (and their descendents) are allowed to return to live as equal citizens on the land, they will continue to violently oppose their expulsion from and the occupation of their land, as is their right. That is the true self-defence here, by the way. When the Palestinians attack "Israel", that is self-defence. It is defence of their land. When the "Israelis" attack, that is not self-defence. You cannot be the aggressor from the outset and then claim that you are acting in self-defence.

You see, it is very simple. The Jew stole the land and kicked out the non-Jewish population. Now the Jew says that they want to "have peace". Well what do they mean by peace? What they mean is the following: We want to be able to steal your land, all of it, to disallow you to return to your land, to mistreat you, to kill you, to kill your children, and we want you to give us peace in return.

That is what they mean by the word "peace", it is very different to what non-Jewish people think the word means.

Whites or Jews?
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...

Do these Jews, many of them dual citizens of Israel, do they have American or Israeli/Jewish interests at heart when they decide to continue funding their own racist nation of Israel where only Jewish immigrant are welcome?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

you say that as if it were OTS equipment in the 1930's. This was customized at Hitler's request by IBM -- https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

Plenty of food crops are grown in greenhouses. According to this, "The 2002 Census of Agriculture estimated a total $15 billion of greenhouse, nursery, and floriculture crops sold in 2002, including [...] $1.2 billion or eight percent food crops such as tomatoes grown in greenhouses."

"Some 1800 hectares of vegetables are grown in greenhouses" in Israel.

"In Europe and Israel, essentially all of these crops [peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, and melons] are produced in greenhouses." Source.

Jewish people in the US have not received anything close to the oppression that black people have, and I say that as someone who's part Jewish.
Jewish Americans were not:
- effectively barred from living in most of the country.
- prevented from attending public schools and later institutions of higher learning, which allowed them to gain the skills they needed to succeed.
- paid less than their non-Jewish counterparts doing the same job.
- beaten or killed as a common recreational activity in large areas of the country, with police either ignoring it or actively supporting it.
- prevented from borrowing money from banks, which allowed them to buy homes and start businesses.
- targeted by America's current system of racial oppression called the "War on Drugs".

While that is perhaps true *in* the US (though not entirely), all of that -- EVERY SINGLE POINT -- was literally the law of the land where the bulk of Jewish immigrants to the US came from. Some of it until quite recently.

To wit: being (not "effectively" - literally) barred from living in most of the country, being excluded from academic institutions (official policy as recently as 15 years ago), being beaten and killed as a common recreational activity in large areas of the country, with police either ignoring it or actively supporting it, being targeted by a system of racial oppression in campaigns against crime, etc. Not to mention fully one third of their world population being wiped out less than a century ago, and still below pre-WWII levels.

No question that blacks have had a rough go of it in the US. But the claim that "Jewish people in the US have not received anything close to the oppression that black people have", while partially true on a technicality, is both misleading and laughably ignorant. If you gave the ancestors of today's black Americans -- as mistreated as they were -- a good look at the lives of the same generations of ancestors of today's American Jews and offered them to swap, most of them would keep what they had in a heartbeat.

You may note that Iraq is primarily Shia and the US worked to protect it.

Can you elaborate? I'm confused as how come the war on Iraq can qualify as protection.

I doubt the House of Saud is strongly interested in reestablishing the Caliphate since they would have to pledge fealty to it.

Unless the House of Saud delivers the caliph. Which, based on its military potential, would not surprise me or others.

Al Qaida considers the House of Saud to be bad rulers, not Islamic enough in the right way for their tastes. As a result al Qaida has long been trying to overthrow the Kingdom.

Doesn't stop them from being financed now and then by the bad rulers, does it?

...oh wait...

Nazi doctors used X-rays to try to sterilize Jews.

The Soviet Union used to tightly control emigration. Under Stalin there was considerable repression. There was a lot of back and forth with the West on the issue, and internal Jewish dissidents pressuring for it. Over time the policy became more liberal.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/fsuemig.html
http://forward.com/articles/12254/declassified-kgb-study-illuminates-early-years-of-/

It was a horrific system for a very long time. (Some of the material in the videos is pretty rough.)

The Soviet Story (2008)
A Portrait of Stalin: Secret Police

before mass prosecution of certain ( ethnic ) groups broke out, the government also told its citizens: "Ordinary German citizens in good standing have nothing to fear from GeStaPo or SD, which services are there to protect them".

Well, that is the problem isn't it? The National Socialist German Workers' Party didn't consider Jews to be ordinary German citizens.

Mein Kampf - 1925/1926

Germans, Buy only from the Jew! - by Joseph Goebbels - 10 December 1928
Goebbels satirically suggests that Germans should only buy from the Jews.
The title is a takeoff on a common Nazi slogan: “Germans: Don’t buy from the Jew!”

Set out the Christmas tree. Daughters of Zion, rejoice! The good Germans are forging their own chains from their hard-earned coins. The Jewish financier will use them to impose eternal slavery on Germans. Who would not want to help advance world Jewry’s great benevolent work? Why do we have a neck, if not to bear a yoke? Germany has been for sale for ten years. Who does not want to help? Does anyone ask if the toy under the Christmas tree came from the Jew Tietz or the German Müller? The Jew will grow fat from the coins you give him, the German will starve. So what? Let the light shine on the Jews, let the Germans dwell in darkness. That is what the Lord of the Jews wants, as does his lackey Finance Minister Hilferding. Property is theft, as long as it does not belong to the Jew. Not a penny for the nobility, everything for the bank and stock exchange and department store swindlers!

Christmas is the festival of love. Why should we not love the poor Jews, even make them fat? Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you! When was the Jew not our enemy? When did he not hate and persecute and slander and spit on us? Who would be inhuman enough to demand that we should treat him according to the law he applies to us: An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?

The child whose birthday we will soon celebrate came into the world to bring love. But Christ the man learned that one cannot always get by with love. When he saw the Jewish moneychangers in the temple, he took a whip and drove them out of the temple.

Germans, buy only from Jews! Let your fellow citizens starve, and go to the Jewish department stores, especially at Christmas. The greater the injustice you do to your own people, the sooner the day will come when a man comes to take up the whip and drive the moneychangers from the temple of our fatherland

Deutsche denkt daran!

Anti-Jewish parade float - "Grumblers and Trouble-Makers go under the Roller"

I assure you there is more if you go looking.

As is usually the case, what Zionist shitbags complain about others doing, they did first. Stuff like of Palestinians and terrorist bombings of government buildings.

What you depict doesn't remotely resemble genocide, which was the topic. Killing 6 of 9 million Jews in Europe, or all of the Jews in Israel. Similar to the announced intention of the invading Arab armies in 1948. See this A bomb in the King David hotel compared to the mass murder of 6 million people? You don't really seem to have a sense of proportion, which might explain a lot.

From a bunch of immigrants from Europe, as Jews were less than 10% of the population in 1900.

Jewish immigrants that bought land, even the worst land that nobody else wanted, and made it productive. You also neglect to mention the large numbers of Arabs that immigrated there as well, especially as the Jewish population began improving the economy.

More on Arab immigrants, So called "Palestinians". When they started to flood Palestine as Jews changed and cultivated the vacant land
The Arabs in Palestine

You seem to be making it your mission in life to remove whatever fig leaf of respectability "anti-Zionism" has and fully merging it with anti-Semitism.

The European Left and Its Trouble With Jews

You read JihadWatch too much.

Constantinople was never Roman in any meaningful sense of the term. It was ethnically Greek. At the time that wasn't a big distinction, but today everyone makes it. Apparently you didn't know which seems to indicate you don't learn any history you haven't read on an anti-Islam site.

By bringing it up you're actually making the argument that Islam is better for freedom of religion then secular democracy. Why? Because for all the centuries after the Byzantine Empire finally fell the theocratic Ottoman Caliphs allowed Greek Christians to freely practice their faith. The region was so mixed that it's virtually impossible to figure out where the majority Greek area stopped and the majority Turkish area started. It wasn't until the Caliphate fell, was replaced by secularist nationalists, and the Greek Kingdom tried to conquer the region that the ethnic Greeks were expelled.

The Egyptians are another problematic one for you. Did you know that the entire reason Egypt was conquered by the Muslims was that the Greek Christians who ran the place refused to stop feeding Egyptian Christians to the Lions? This pissed the Egyptian Christians off, so they stabbed the Greeks in the back. Early on it was actually illegal to convert from one religion to the other, but eventually more fundamentalist Islamic forces took over and 250 or so years after the original conquest Egypt was majority Islamic. So you basically just proved that Islam can live in perfect harmony with Christianity.

You'd have been best-off going with the Persians Zoroastorian religion, which went from major world religion to minority religion believed by a couple thousand Parsis in Gujarat when they lost a war. But if you'd done that I just would have brought the many, many civilizations destroyed by Christians over the years. The Spanish alone probably destroyed more religions then all of Islam in the century or two after Columbus. We'll never know because the Spanish weren't very good about keeping track of heathen religions.

As for Jewish law, you're just wrong. Under the letter of Jewish law you are supposed to be married at puberty:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10435-marriage-laws
There is no minimum age for marriage, there is a maximum age for not being married, which is below the Age of Consent in several states (16 seems to be consensus, but 14 and 18 are also mentioned; at 20 you're "cursed by God Himself").
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/marriage.html
Is somewhat less draconian, but they still say "The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24."

What happens on these Anti-Islam sites is simple:
Over the years every religion has done things we don't approve of now. Most of them find ways to change those attitudes (for example, it would be virtually impossible to find a Rabbi who says a 12-year-old is a valid marriage partner, despite the Talmud). As a religion believed by living people, Islam is no different.

But the anti-Islam forces assume that every word of the Koran is believed literally. Every Sura, every Hadith. They are all as evil as they sound when translated to English, removed totally from the context of the rest of the religion, and every Muslim who has ever lived will always follow each and every single one. None of them acknowledge each branch of Islam acknowledges different Hadiths as authoritative, or that context matters.

It gets even weirder when those guys get at history books. Anyone with a vaguely Islamic name who does anything bad to Christians is evidence that Islam itself is anti-Christian, even when the Christians of the day preferred Islamic rule (Egypt), or the I

I mean, if you don't read the news and can't Google, I don't know why you want to come here and hold forth on these topics.

Any fool knows that things happen in Israel all the time that make those two kids, with their civilian guns and their couple of pressure cooker bombs look like an episode of sesame street:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html

I see you didn't answer my main point at all - which is that any two kids can cause the city of Boston to shut down, and cost the economy potentially hundreds of millions of dollars. So how long until it happens again? The US has a glass jaw to the world's thugs with this attitude of "run to your houses and hide under your beds" at the first sign of terrorism. We cower and ask how quickly we can roll back the bill of rights, when our grandparents would have stood vigilant to guard them. And all for what - something less dangerous to us than slipping and falling. Terrorists are forced to use the media and fear because they are so ineffective at actually causing harm. Why on earth hand them the win?

The difference is that the metaphor is used to bring up images of using wheelbarrows to hold enough money to buy a loaf of bread (see http://www.mises.org/daily/1611 ). But if we just add zeros digitally and index everything, where's the problem? Consider Israel's experience: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Economy/eco5.html :

Over the years, more and more non-immediate transactions - namely, the kind to be concluded some time in the future - adopted the indexing (or linkage) remedy. One of its first applications was in bank savings accounts. In order to prevent inflation resulting in a deterioration of the real value of their savings, depositors were assured that each deposit would be registered at its "value" (that is, the CPI rate) on that day. The deposit would be redeemed, when the time came, according to its "real value," as corrected by the rise of the index between the two dates. Soon after, interest accumulation was also linked in the same fashion.

[...]

The linkage system was very successful. In major economies around the world, consumers often feel the pinch of just 2-7% annual inflation. But Israelis, who had to deal with a much higher inflation rate, went about their business practically unaffected. For three and a half decades, their real income was protected by this index-linked mechanism. Furthermore, over this period the standard of living rose at an average rate of close to 4% annually.

When hyperinflation hit in the 1970s, the article continues:

However perfect, the linkage machine itself was fueling the fire of inflation at an increasing pace. As inflation evolved into hyperinflation, the price spiral was taking a toll on economic output. Dealing with daily linkage adjustments and their repercussions was draining the time and resources of households and businesses.

But what if "dealing with the daily linkage adjustments and their repercussions" was fully automated, so it didn't drain any time and resources? In other words, no one would have to worry about money except for computer programs, while we got on with our lives.

But then you find out that they're displacing the people living in those areas and then just gifting that land to Israeli settlers and you're like "WTF?!?! How are they ever going to undo that? You can't just go to the settlers and say 'Okay. Time to come back home, we are giving that land back to the Palestinians...'".

Mmm perhaps like this?

Let me repeat that: 21 killed by hamas, in 11 years.

This is so far from the truth I have to assume you are knowingly attempting to mislead. See this list of Hamas victims for accurate information. There's other sources of info if you think that web site is part of some conspiracy. I counted about 60 people killed by Hamas in the last 4-5 years alone, including several children.

You seem to be attempting to note that relatively few Israelis have been killed by rockets- so it's OK to fire rockets at people who have bomb shelters? Is that really how you think, that it's acceptable to shoot at people if you usually miss? If the terrorists stopped firing rockets, and their other indiscriminate attacks against Israeli civilians, Israel would not be bombing Gaza. If Hamas stopped sending suicide bombers and other terrorists into Israel, there would be no reason for the blockade. Who would be out of power without the blockade? Hamas. So you are right that this is about oppression- by Hamas, against their fellow Palestinians. Hamas is the only one who benefits from the violence.

Agreed that you're more likely to die from eating fried chicken- that stuff is tasty, but terrible for you.

But there are major religions which objections to autopsy as well, including Islam and Judaism, though as usual it seems to depend on the local imam/rabbi.

I'm sure they are out there, but I've never actually known a case of a physician objecting to an autopsy for fear of uncovering their errors. The egotistical among us I suspect feel they would likely be exonerated, and many (perhaps most others in these parts anyway, among my colleagues in the US Pacific Northwest) honestly would want to learn from their mistakes. Nevertheless, it's hard to figure out who funds them, and many families tend to feel it's a final act of violence. Still, it's hard for me to wrap my head around getting a more accurate, cost-effective answer from a CT scan than a old-fashioned postmortem.

It's too bad people can't opt out of the intrusive data collection and privacy invasion schemes of the European governments. Frankly, I greatly prefer Google having my private data than the German or French government.

You're crazy. How could the German government having access to your dox possibly go wrong?

/Godwin

The Hollerith Machine was developed for the task of processing the massive amounts of data for the census in the United States. It was the only solution in the world that could handle the job. Decades later, Germany was using these machines for its own census. Most of the data the Nazis compiled with IBM's technology was between 1934 and 1939. While the Nazis were collecting this information to track "undesirables," IBM was so proud of itself it had a plaque affixed to greet visitors to its Madison Ave (NY) headquarters in 1938 which read: WORLD PEACE THROUGH WORLD TRADE.

The concept of copyright is far older. Ancient Jewish Talmudic law and Roman law contain ideas about the rights of an author to control his works.

The oldest legal case dates back to the 6th century in Ireland.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/copyright.html

English common law has long precedent in recognizing rights of authors.

And your treatment of the Statute of Anne is rather unfair; it was a big advance in establishing the idea of public domain and eventually put an end to common law claims of perpetual ownership by authors.

As far as Israel is concerned, I also doubt he would stand in the way of selling munitions to our allies.

Of course not, but I was talking about the $3 billion dollars per year that the US gives to Israel in military aid.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

That is your tax money that is given to Israel to spend as they see fit on US military toys. They US then gets to see them tested in a live fire environment, often against Russian gear that was sold to the various Arab states like Iran.

Lying to start a war is treason.

In a democracy, government secrecy is treason. Citizens cannot help run the government if they don't have any way to understand what the government is doing.

There is now an extensive public relations campaign in the U.S. to start a war with Iran, using money from U.S. taxpayers. These are some of the players:

1) Those who control the U.S. government want constant war. War creates numerous opportunities for easy profits that can be hidden from taxpayers.

The U.S. government has a long history of using violence. See the Timeline of United States military operations. See also the Military history of the United States. The Bush and Cheney families had, or have, investments in weapons companies. Those in control hid their involvement.

2) Jews want U.S. taxpayers to pay for Israeli security. A better, cheaper, less self-destructive method would be for Jews to be less arrogant and more caring toward their neighbors. The problems between the Jews and the Arabs have existed for more than 3,300 years. The Jews say that they are the "chosen people" of God. The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an illegitimate child of their tribal founder, Abraham, and a slave girl that he owned. Those ancient problems with relationships will not be solved by guys in Washington who often don't even have a good relationship with their wives.

It would be foolish to think that statement is anti-Jew. A war with Iran will likely mean further troubles for Israel because it is likely to escalate the violence in the area. I'm not the only person who thinks that. See the 60 Minutes episode, The Spymaster: Meir Dagan on Iran's threat. Lesley Stahl, 60 Minutes interviewer, does her disgusting "Oh wow, oh wow!" routine, but there is useful information. (The 60 Minutes program needs better editing.)

Quote: "You have said publicly that bombing Iran now is the stupidest idea you've ever heard. That's a direct quote." -- Lesley Stahl, quoting ex-chief of Mossad Meir Dagan. Mossad is an Israeli government agency that rivals the U.S. government for secret violence, as Jeremiah Cornelius said in the parent comment.

There are only 5,874,300 Jews in Israel. There are approximately 5,275,000 Jews in the United States. In some ways, the U.S. is as much of a Jewish country as Israel. It is amazing how much power that small group of 1.7% of has over U.S. government policy. The population of the U.S. is 313 million.

To many people, the idea of 6 million Jews encouraging violence against 1.6 billion Muslims is self-destructive.

It is a mistake to think that all Israeli Jews agree with Israeli or even Jewish policies. For example: Israeli ultra-Orthodox Jews 'harass' 8-year-old girl over dress. Quote: "... 50 people involved in the abuse of an 8-year-old." Also see Israel braced for protests against treatment of women after girl, 8, is spat on by Jewish extremists.

3) The nuclear power industry w

It is a mistake to think that all Israeli Jews agree with Israeli or even Jewish policies. For example: Israeli ultra-Orthodox Jews 'harass' 8-year-old girl over dress. Quote: "... 50 people involved in the abuse of an 8-year-old." Also see Israel braced for protests against treatment of women after girl, 8, is spat on by Jewish extremists.

Here are only some of the reasons many Israelis disagree with the typical policies of the Israeli government:

Some Israelis think that further violence toward Iran will cause trouble for Israel. Partly that is because there is the idea that encouraging violence against 1.6 billion Muslims is self-defeating. There are only an estimated 14 million (not billion) practicing Jews in the entire world.

Some of those who control the U.S. government want to build an oil pipeline through Iran to get oil from the "Stan" countries to the ocean where it can be shipped easily. That idea would be financially profitable only if U.S. taxpayers paid for security. The U.S. government is, in some ways, VERY corrupt.

Remember that the U.S. government supported Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's war with Iran so that U.S. companies could sell weapons to Iraq, and with the idea of the enormous profits that would come from building the pipeline through Iran.

Also, remember that the U.S. government has interfered with the politics in Iran since before before 1953, when the U.S. agency known as the CIA arranged the removal of a democratically elected president, President Mossadegh. The U.S. government arranged that the Shah have complete power. See for example, Politics, Power, and US Policy in Iran, 1950-1953 (PDF file, Harvard University). Quote: ... the August 1953 coup was not an isolated incident, but an outgrowth of decisions and policies made by the Truman administration largely as a result of a truly remarkable U.S. military buildup that really began to come on line in mid-1952. Such aggressiveness would have been impossible in 1950 or 1951, even if Eisenhower had been president.

Opposition in Iran to the violent regime of the Shah caused support for Muslim clerics who took over management of the government. Iranians say that clerics have usually not been good business and government managers. The unthinking violence of the U.S. government toward Iran has caused Iranians to be very afraid of what the U.S. government might do in the future.

One reason for the Iranian government to develop nuclear materials is to try to protect Iran against U.S. government violence. Another reason is that all governments need to give attention to sources of energy that do not cause global warming.

Some with influence in the U.S. government wanted to build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. That is one of the reasons the U.S. government spends taxpayer money there, but it seems that getting control of Afghanistan will not happen soon, so there is renewed interest in violence toward Iran.

The U.S. government's support for violence toward Arab and Muslim nations, partly as a way for a few to make money, is seen by some as caused by Jewish manipulation of the U.S. government. There is support by some Jews in the U.S. to get U.S. taxpayers to pay for the security of Israel.

There are only 5,874,300 Jews in Israel. There are approximately 5,275,000 Jews in the United States. In some ways, the U.S. is as much o