Domain: liveleak.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to liveleak.com.
Comments · 291
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Re:Video
Here is uncensored video of the gunfight with a police officer, then the execution of the police officer. I think it's good for the public to see these kinds of things, so they can fully appreciate the reality of the threat posed to our society.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
fucking savages
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Re:White House...
I do not remember any local hero saving the day during the latest shootouts in the US.
Besides, you might want to gather more information on the police response before talking too much. -
Video
Here is uncensored video of the gunfight with a police officer, then the execution of the police officer. I think it's good for the public to see these kinds of things, so they can fully appreciate the reality of the threat posed to our society.
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Re:The New Wall
You surely jest, since it is the Ukrainian prime minister who wants to build a wall.
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Re:Semantics
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Re:what happens when a cell phone battery explodes
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
User was installing a new battery that failed due to shorting when installed.
Another story of it happening and photo of the aftermath
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014...Different incident. User dropped the phone and the physical damage caused the battery short.
The typical failure mode from dendrite formation is the battery slowly drains itself from the high resistance connection between the cathode and anode that forms, and not a thermal runaway but it can happen. This is a common failure mode for NiCad batteries, but Lithium batteries are much more heat sensitive and the electrolyte when heated too much can release oxygen to fuel a runaway reaction. Battery failures in portable electronics are typically due to physical damage or poor quality chinese made batteries, especially when they omit the protection circuits.
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what happens when a cell phone battery explodes
This is a video of what happens when a cell phone explodes. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i... Another story of it happening and photo of the aftermath http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014...
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Re:How about...
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Re:Reporting bias?
Also, whether a woman finds an advance to be "harassment" or not depends on whether or not she's interested in the man.
So let that be a lesson to you. If you want to avoid harassment:
1) Be handsome
2) Be attractive
3) Don't be unattractive
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Re:Are there many AFRICANS working for NASA?
Wtf are you talking about ? Some african countries have space programs.
See for example: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i... -
Re:What choice do we have?
Shhh. You're upsetting his worldview, where he's entitled to being taken care of.
The counterpoint is that (at least in the US), the government makes it nearly impossible to subsist without participating in the government economy. You can't just grow subsistence crops on open land, you can't own land without participating in the $ economy to pay property taxes. You can't live a natural life if you wanted to. And if you try to be independant, they'll kill you. -
Bull, don't you pay attention to current events???
The huge wave of illegal immigration by kids has lead for several military bases in CA, AZ, and TX being used to house thousands of kids MANY of whom are SICK and the border patrol is scrambling to get them immunized.
Mexican numbers for things like immunization rates have always been as bogus as the stats from any other hyper-corrupt 3rd world hell-hole, buit in this case thery're fundamentally downright deceptive; All these kids are coming in over the US border from Mexico but, as always, details matter: while many are "from Mexico" (as-in "born there") there are HUGE numbers who are "from Mexico" (as-in passing-through the place on their way into the US) who are NOT immunized in Mexico at all. So while many mexican kids are not immunized because they are part of the oddball portion of their population that is not immunized (like too-many American-born who are not immunized even though most of their countrymen are) the majority of the current wave are from places like Guatemala and are not being immunized as they are magically transported the length of Mexico. Note: I said "magically" because this is obviously an orchestrated scam.... tens of thousands of 3 year olds, 7 year olds, etc are not WALKING the length of Mexico (getting food water shelter etc along the way) completely on their own without their parents and without any government "help".
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Re:Criminal scum
Correct.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
It's not a good idea to wander round the City of London wearing a Tshirt or carrying a sign saying "Scientology is an evil cult" - you WILL be arrested.
(It's happened a few times in the past, but this is the most recent example I could find)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/...
Thankfully the UK crown prosecution service has more sense:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/No...'
Lots of links off the bottome of the last article.
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It's not enough
Congress needs to establish a commission of inquiry to help us identify people who don't agree with gay marriage, so they can be outed and ostracized. You know the routine: "Are you, or have you ever been, a conservative/orthodox/fundamentalist Christian, Muslim, or Jew?"
As we find these scumbags, we can work to deny them the right to start businesses in our cities like Rahm Emmanuel did in Chicago. Some of them are artisans: we can attempt to commission artistic works in conflict with their beliefs, and sue them into oblivion when they refuse. We can pressure them to resign from their jobs.
As recent Obama voters, it's not like we're huge hypocrites or anything. Please understand that the Democratic party is about democracy -- that's why we rejoice that California's popularly-voted Proposition 8 was overturned by a few activist judges. And we're about tolerance -- that's why we're trying to drive Christians, Muslims, and Jews out of public life by destroying their ability to hold jobs or participate in commerce. -
Title ends in question
Then usual answer is NO.
wonder if he'd been getting driving tips from this guy? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
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Re:Old idea
You talking about the Honda Motocompo?
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Re:Hrm...
Well, one other thing with Iraq and Afghanistan is that most AT weaponry in use there is the good old RPG-7, which is not really adequate against modern composite armor - you need to deploy it in volleys to ensure a hit, with several people firing at once from different angles (like Chechen jihadis did in Grozny in 1994).
OTOH, with something more modern like RPG-29, a single hit can seriously damage a modern tank, even a frontal hit at the turret. Luckily for allied forces, they don't encounter those often in the hands of insurgents in modern war theaters; but when they do, the results are impressive. And IDF had more trouble along these lines in Lebanon because they've got large numbers of RPG-29 from Syria.
And in any conventional large scale conflict, with two national armies on both sides, as WW2 had been, you can be sure that the AT weaponry on the other side will be more modern and more widespread, and it is entirely likely that a light patrol would still have one on them (it's why they are made so light as to be carried by a single person, after all).
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Re:Why wait?
> every single problem you can find with fighting hard drugs is smaller than the negative effects of hard drugs themselves (heroin, cocaine, meth)
Every single problem with hard drugs (heroin, cocaine and meth) is smaller than the negative effects of fighting them.
You actually think that bloggers murdered by mexican drug cartels are worse than an individual who chooses to take heroin... That is stupidity of the highest level.
> we can of course find bad tactics in fighting hard drugs, and we should
There are of course negatives associated with being addicted to drugs, even if they were medically pure and provided free of charge... We should help those addicts who chose of their own free will to seek help.
> addiction to hard drugs destroys lives. this is the primary and ultimate problem. if you don't understand that problem as the root cause of everything else, you're an idiot on the subject matter
My experience has been that being forced into prostitution and being controlled by criminal gangs with no morality to obtain your drugs to be far worse than the addiction itself.
My property being stolen to fund prohibition prices is worse than addiction.
> no, the hard drugs are the real problem
Again... if you start with the axiom that addiction is the worst thing in the world, you will always end up with result that anything addictive is the worst thing in the world. Once you realise that addiction is easily satiated, then where are the real problems?
Remember, addiction simply means being willing to do anything to satiate that desire. You simply want addicts to crawl over more broken glass, then point to all the cuts and blood to prove the problems of addiction. Remove the glass and the problems of addiction become far less.
Some of my best friends are drug addicts, heroin, meth and crack... Their problems appear to come entirely from the current legal environment, that their suppliers are all criminal gangs, and the inflated prohibition prices requiring prostitution and theft to fund. When they have their drugs, they harm no one. If their drugs were available at pharmaceutical prices and purity, their problems would be diminished a thousand fold.
On the bright side, keeping drugs illegal keeps the illegal prostitutes desperate and cheap... This is what you want, right?
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Re:A simpler approach
Actually no.
Researchgruppen is an ultra-leftist organization, run by people who have committed assaults. They are offering a 50 000 SKR bounty for someone to hack the Flashback site to de-anonymize their political opponents there.
These "racist" sites are the ones which post news without Swedish white pixelization and political correctness. However it is true that there are comments which are negative - just like comments in any media outlet.
What Expressen and Researchgruppen did was that they de-anonymized their political opponents. They are also targeting people who have nothing to do with Swedish Democrats, just ordinary people who disagree with the nation wide consensus of immigration and do not want lose their jobs for expressing their opinions.
As a Finnish citizen I am very worried of the state of democracy in Sweden. Swedish media is hell bent to destroy Swedish Democrats and they use any means. Swedish ultra left is extremely violent and seems to enjoy total freedom. It is not the ultra right or racists who do the majority of political violence in Sweden.
Outing political opponents and making a illegal registers of identities breaks Swedish and EU laws. Harassing people because of this also breaks laws, anonymous or not, people have right to express their opinions in the network and ordinary citizens can not expect to be chased by the media or extremely violent political groups because of that.
We Finns always joke how Swedes "Diskuterar" so much of everything but it seems we are little bit outdated on that belief. Swedish media do not want to have civilized discussion and extremist groups are using violence to advance their cause.
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Re:A simpler approach
Actually no.
Researchgruppen is an ultra-leftist organization, run by people who have committed assaults. They are offering a 50 000 SKR bounty for someone to hack the Flashback site to de-anonymize their political opponents there.
These "racist" sites are the ones which post news without Swedish white pixelization and political correctness. However it is true that there are comments which are negative - just like comments in any media outlet.
What Expressen and Researchgruppen did was that they de-anonymized their political opponents. They are also targeting people who have nothing to do with Swedish Democrats, just ordinary people who disagree with the nation wide consensus of immigration and do not want lose their jobs for expressing their opinions.
As a Finnish citizen I am very worried of the state of democracy in Sweden. Swedish media is hell bent to destroy Swedish Democrats and they use any means. Swedish ultra left is extremely violent and seems to enjoy total freedom. It is not the ultra right or racists who do the majority of political violence in Sweden.
Outing political opponents and making a illegal registers of identities breaks Swedish and EU laws. Harassing people because of this also breaks laws, anonymous or not, people have right to express their opinions in the network and ordinary citizens can not expect to be chased by the media or extremely violent political groups because of that.
We Finns always joke how Swedes "Diskuterar" so much of everything but it seems we are little bit outdated on that belief. Swedish media do not want to have civilized discussion and extremist groups are using violence to advance their cause.
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How long till..
How long till we get something like the Happy Helmet? (Albeit for perseverance, not happy happy joy joy.)
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It works by
It works by tracking muzzies
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Re:OK let's get something straight here -
If I were an employer, beyond criminal record, I don't think I should care what my employees did or do or will do in their free time.
I used to Google for new hires just to get to know them better, not part of the interview or hiring process, but after we selected them, just so I can have things to talk about with them and make them feel more welcome
...I've now learned that you know what
... I don't really want to know what these people do. Sometimes, you learn things that can't be unlearned and you really didn't need to know.I no longer Google for people before hiring them. For my protection, so I don't have to explain to anyone why I can't look at them with a straight face anymore. While I did not hire Mosley of F1/Nazi orgy video fame, I did run across something not too far from this ( Probably NSFW even though the naughty bits are blacked out) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d3_1207044480
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Re:hey, GCHQ employees
hey, GCHQ employees
.... Why don't you do something productive?They were apparently spying outside the country. Isn't that what most people here agree they're supposed to do?
I can see why it might be a matter of concern.
Iran says it has capability to force Europe to 'spend the winter in cold' - Published: 02.28.10
Iran could make European countries suffer by cutting off energy supplies and can target any adversary with its missiles, a senior Iranian military official said on Sunday.
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Re:Nazi themed orgy?
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The Video
I found the video watch while it lasts.
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Re:Why is he special?
Yep, I never would have even thought of looking for it until I read about the lawsuit. Now of course I just had to see it. Not hard to find, by the way: here
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Re:Meanwhile their friendly neighbors had 400 nuke
If Israel just wants land, they have a funny way of showing it.
Like they're going to do it all at once. Then the veil would finally be lifted, and not even Daddy Amurika could keep covering for Israel's ass at the U.N. That of course hasn't stopped prominent Israelis from openly talking about wanting to engage in ethnic cleansing and murder to achieve a truly jewish Israel. And while you guys like to complain about the Hamas charter, the Likud charter lays claim to all of the West Bank.
How about places in the West Bank sacred to Jews - Hebron, Nablus, Jericho?
That's what the slow grind of Apartheid is for. The Jewish-only roads, the separation barriers, the abuse of water rights. Tearing down Palestinian villages that have existed for hundreds of years because of 'building code violations' or to make room for 'public parks'. And last but not least, Settlers Gone Wild, who shoot Palestinian farmers in the head or divert sewage from their illegal settlements into Palestinian farms. They do it slowly enough and the United States will still automatically protect their ass with it's Security Council veto pen.
They do it too much and and the POTUS makes a big show of giving Bibi a talking to, at which point Israel announces they'll stop building settlements - for a month or two - and could we please please get back to talking about those Qassam rockets.
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Re:Facts please.
Ah yes they do: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ea_1381098599
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Re:Missing the point
Well you'd have to start by having the game play heavily edited for political smear purposes if you want it to resemble the collateral murder video. After having your game play taken out of context and having your name smeared on the international news than you'd get to spend the rest of your life defending yourself from people who thought you slaughtered innocent civilians. You do want your game play resembling reality, right?
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Re:Changing culture
Donuts and a radar gun? Have you ever been to Oakland? Fix this:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_22622926/an-oakland-murder-trial-against-teenager-that-sadly
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_23890186/oakland-12-people-shot-less-than-24-hours
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d6b_1364321154&comments=1
http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0708a/copyright/snitch.html
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Oakland-snitch-killing-brings-65-to-life-term-2414713.php
This is far beyond smoking pot and speeding. This is a culture that actively celebrates murder and beats or kills those that cooperate with the police. You can't fix this by hiring new cops that ignore people smoking pot and breaking the speeding limit. Until you fix the culture Oakland will continue to be a hell hole for the residents that live there.
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Re:Not to worry!
Yah, and that worked so damn well in A-Stan that America eventually just quietly started wandering off the field after a decade and declared "Victory" by handing the problem off to a puppet government they created - knowing full well that all the leaders of said puppet government are going to be up against a wall within five years of the last American troops pulling out.
All that tech, and the American/NATO militaries couldn't defeat an insurgency supported by a population with a tech level roughly on par with 10th Century Bulgaria.
Why? Because if the locals don't want you, and have access to even rudimentary firearms, sooner or later, you gotta just leave.
And the Swiss have some very nice rifles, and also hold an annual nationwide marksmanship contest (the largest marksmanship contest in the world at 200,000 participants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland).
Oh, and for reference on what a cranky old Afghan can do with an antique rifle vs. a highly trained Marine unit... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1301285726&comments=1
Quite playing COD and read a history book. Your perception of how warfare plays out is deeply misguided. -
Re:Rubbish!
Except the bit I was disputing which is kind of the point.
Rubbish, show me what was misquoted.
Huh? No one is disputing that a bunch of 1.5 - 2 metre munitions with a chemical payload landed in rebel held territory and killed a bunch of people at this point, not even Russia and China or even Assad.
Citation is required, I see no evidence anywhere. No, some blogger's opinion from the UK does not count. Facts only.
I Googled and I could find nothing, only the things that backed up what I said to you.
You could have found by searching for "United Nations finds rebels guilty". You obviously didn't try very hard to search.
An interesting search I just tried was "march 2013 un finds fsa used chemical weapons". It's amazing how many links there are to this: "Leaked Documents: US Framed Syria in Chemical Weapons Attack".
http://www.thejournal.ie/video-bomb-strikes-un-observer-vehicle-after-attack-on-funeral-452319-May2012/ [thejournal.ie] Look up UNSMIS, it pulled out of Syria last year precisely because it was too unsafe and kept getting attacked by both sides of the conflict. Unlike you I can back up my claims thanks.
I almost laughed at this article when I read "Minutes later, a roadside bomb exploded, damaging one of the observer mission’s cars." in the article. The Syrian Army is now planting IEDs and blowing them up huh? Come on now, you can't really be that daft can you?
Further, we have this in the same article. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is calling on the UN observer mission to investigate today’s attack on the funeral and bring the perpetrators to justice. The mission confirmed that one of its vehicles was struck by a bomb and that three were damaged in the explosion, but said that there were no injuries in the attack. Last week, a roadside bomb struck a Syrian security vehicle shortly after the UN mission had driven by.
This is not selecting facts to suite your opinion, this is outright denial of reality!
This is pretty funny given that twice in your post you demonstrated outright you have absolutely no idea what you are on about. You're completely out of touch with the situation and are speculating wildly based on pre-conceptions formed by past fuckups.
Wildly based speculation that we need to find facts and not blindly believe propaganda when we have a history of receiving primarily propaganda from media and politicians? You have provided no facts that back your belief that it was Assad. You have provided no facts that show the UN was attacked by Syria (your link is laughable, unless you can't read). You have said we need to hold Assad accountable without merit! Who exactly is wildly speculating? I'd recommend you find a mirror before tossing out accusations.
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Re:First they came for the Tea Party
Crazy talk undercuts credibility
Yes, it does. Pointing out that the "Tea Party" phenomenon was created and hyped by Fox, however, is not "crazy talk", it's the only conclusion anyone paying attention can reach.
Chuck Todd admits FOX News created and hypes the Tea Party Movement
How Talk Radio and FOX News created the Tea Party
The Tea Party: Populism of the privileged: "This must be the first "populist" movement driven by a television network: Sixty-three percent of the Tea Party folks say they most watch Fox News "for information about politics and current events," compared with 23 percent of the country as a whole."
Fox News spent weeks promoting apparent tea party scam: "Fox News heavily promoted the Tea Party Express; the Our Country Deserves Better PAC even used Fox's promotion in a fundraising email. Then Fox's Griff Jenkins hit the trail with the Express, following that bus around the country, throwing journalistic integrity aside as he declared its riders "the America that Washington forgot.""
Tea Party Promotion by Fox News
And there's the usual beautiful job by The Daily Show showing Fox clips puffing up the teabagger protests.
and "Palestinian rights group" is singular.
Not really significant to the overall point, but yes, it does seem that complaints from only one Palestinian rights group have been covered in the news to date.
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Re:Why Nepal is sending troops elsewhere?
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Re:University of Califonia? Oh, they'll love her.
More than that. I'd say Napolitano is probably the least knowledgeable person about terrorism in the Obama cabinet, which is just fucking sad.
She repeatedly claims there is no violence along the US/Mexico border, even though Arizona happens to be the kidnapping capital of the world, and people as far north as Chandler, AZ have been beheaded by Cartel members.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1#.UeBPe23aW2U
I remember it was her who made it sound like right wing groups were ready to storm the nation:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/15/extremism.report/
None of these "threats" ever actually panned out. Not a single one. The worse that happened is some idiot or two made a comment (e.g. talk about assassinating the president) but no physical violence ever surfaced.
Ironically most actual "acts" of domestic terror have been committed by left wing groups, usually environmentalists and/or animal rights groups, but including the mass shooters, nearly all of which considered themselves to be left wing:
http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba6_1345149941I remember a few years back there was an article on slashdot about how medical researchers had to stop their work due to eco terrorism being so bad, with one researcher who was studying Parkinson's by manipulating rat neurons, and some group threatened to Molotov cocktail his family, so he quit.
Napolitano has never made a single mention of anything like that, not even once. Al Qaeda threats are probably 1% of actual terrorism that happens in the US, and the so called "right wing" threat practically doesn't even exist. But to her, those are the top priority.
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Re:Might be a good idea
I'm afraid you've misaddressed that complaint. You should be sending it to this lot. If they have their way, it won't just be a "chilling effect" you feel on your neck. On the other hand, they like to give people a "hot time" when they can. If it makes you feel any better, I think the restrictions on that sort of thing aren't as rigid as they were in WW 2.
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Re:Good to know - Steve Hughes - What's wrong wit
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1305790944
German's may not want to watch, in fear of being offended.
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Re:So then...
I think that the government can take care of idiots who shine laserpointers at them... without a ban...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eb3_1361179577Yep, all they have to do is keep a fleet of Apache gunships in the air at all times. Problem solved!
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Re:100 mile border
The extended border region doesn't obviate the need for reasonable suspicion. It is only in ports of entry that suspicion is not required to justify search.
The ACLU seems to think otherwise:
http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-free-zone
- * Normally under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the American people are not generally subject to random and arbitrary stops and searches.
- * The border, however, has always been an exception. There, the longstanding view is that the normal rules do not apply. For example the authorities do not need a warrant or probable cause to conduct a “routine search.”
- * But what is “the border”? According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around the “external boundary” of the United States.
- * As a result of this claimed authority, individuals who are far away from the border, American citizens traveling from one place in America to another, are being stopped and harassed in ways that our Constitution does not permit.
- * Border Patrol has been setting up checkpoints inland — on highways in states such as California, Texas and Arizona, and at ferry terminals in Washington State. Typically, the agents ask drivers and passengers about their citizenship. Unfortunately, our courts so far have permitted these kinds of checkpoints – legally speaking, they are “administrative” stops that are permitted only for the specific purpose of protecting the nation’s borders. They cannot become general drug-search or other law enforcement efforts.
- * However, these stops by Border Patrol agents are not remaining confined to that border security purpose. On the roads of California and elsewhere in the nation – places far removed from the actual border – agents are stopping, interrogating, and searching Americans on an everyday basis with absolutely no suspicion of wrongdoing.
And the DHS doesn't seem to be afraid to stop and question motorists far from the "real" border even if there's no reasonable suspicion at all:
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Just like us...
Just like us... Yea, right. They have the mind of apes.
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Re:how cares about meteorites?
Have you even seen A SINGLE ONE video showing a person throwing itself in front of a passing car in any of the million of russian dashcam videos?
Just a single one? Here's about 2 dozen.
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Mountain Dew or Crab Juice?
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Looks like a model
Not sure whether this is a hoax or not, but the pictures seems to show a model, not a real plane. Have a look at the cockpit : http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/19/media19/2013/Feb/2/LiveLeak-dot-com-4347f2b9fa55-f313_17_preview.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad29f444cd3d1ca14&ec_rate=200
I don't know anything about jet fighters, but I can recognize a Thrustmaster Mark II joystick stuck to a pole. And the material on the border of the cabin definitely looks like duct tape. And the canopy does not seem to lock into anything. And so on. -
Re:ARGUS-IS 1.8 gigapixel camera
Check this video of new spy technology for drones and presumably spy satellites: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e95_1359267780 A single drone can cover a 25 sq mi area with 6" resolution. This video is incredible in that it gives you a detailed peek at what is possible from a single aircraft and the amount of data-processing that can be done in real time.
This is a drone, but can a spy satellite obtain such realtime data in this resolution? I am yet to see an example of that.
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ARGUS-IS 1.8 gigapixel camera
Check this video of new spy technology for drones and presumably spy satellites: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e95_1359267780
A single drone can cover a 25 sq mi area with 6" resolution. This video is incredible in that it gives you a detailed peek at what is possible from a single aircraft and the amount of data-processing that can be done in real time. -
Re:Almost no one is killed by "assault weapons"
If an RPG is not covered, then a nuke wouldn't be either and I didn't think I needed to draw that distinction. If it wasn't clear, I stated that defensive arms were. As for court cases, Us. v. Miller (1934) and DC v. Heller (2008). Read them and you will see that guns in common use (AR 15s are mighty common) for both individual and the common defense.
As for what a person would be faced with, it's the same as what a cop would be faced with. Here is a guy who needed it. He is not the only one.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e55_1234305715 -
Re:Only 3 minutes!?
"We have 3 minutes! Where are you surfing?"
"Yes, hurry, go here! Always wanted to see this!"
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Working video link
Youtube pulled it, but LiveLeak has the goods: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=16d_1356820592
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Re:So wireless internet does not crash airlines??
Obligatory Louis C K: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aba_1332656862
(skip to 2:00 for the relevant part...)