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That's why you should play a game like Progress Quest. You can level your character without clicking your mouse.

Because they are more like glorified chat rooms. Except they are not.

withtout humans, there is just no good gameplay in there, anything interesting is gonna be copy pasted till its dull as hell. Once you look past all those things that designers want to hide ...

  * Repetition1: L1 killing L1 monster is equivalent of l10 character killing L10 monsters nad L100 character killing L100 monsters. There is nothing interesting, but people dig having bigger numbers. It screwed rpg "character growth" concept. Now everyone thinks that good RPG NEEDS to have levels, at least 50 of them. They would scream like that angry german game kid if there was mmo without power progression.

  * Repetition2: Kill 10 of X, bring me 10 of Y. If that is not boring, welcome to traditional bring me 10 of Z which is just laying around. You get theese quests in each MMO. All the time.

  * Repetition3: Activate skill 1,2,3 in sequence. rinse and repeat. You cant even do anything else in game, because it would be too hard. Developers make sure that nothing requires thinking, all you have are those skills (which you replace with stronger versions, but they stay eventually the same). Noone can be allowed to fail miserably and repeatedly, so there is no way to fail. Hell, all MMOS have exactly same tactic: tank-nuke-heal.

* Repetition4: Gather X of Y resource, use it to improve skill so that you can gather X of Z resource to improve it further.

For all intents and purposes, all MMOS have gameplay as interesting as if you had progressquest ( http://www.progressquest.com/ ) runing on background while chatting on irc.

One game tried to be different: GW (pointless leveling, nearly no bring me X of Y quests, interesting gameplay where noone is guaranteed to win just because they spent x hours playing, tank-nuke-heal being worst tactis, etc ...). Quite few people missed all the dull and dumb things for some reason. They got very vocal about it, and there is no end to them.

From that i realized one thing: Lots people do NOT play to socialize, maybe not event to have fun. They play for e-peen. They require boring, dumb, gameplay, where they can sink hours of their life grinding and end up having virtual persona of celebrity grade. They dont want challenge because that would eventually slow down their grind or make it impossible. They want to feel fetter than someone who plays less that they do or just want to feel good about time they wasted.

Funny, I think the same for you. Maybe you should try Progress Quest

http://www.progressquest.com/

Your game has been around for some time.

Slightly different genre, but you might be interested in Progress Quest ...

"You sever the Bacon Elemental. You get 2 Bacon Elemental Bits"

Then what do you think about Progress Quest? http://progressquest.com/

Was watching a number increment your sole reason for contributing to SETI@Home? Might I suggest http://www.progressquest.com/ as an alternative? I think you'll be much happier with it.

You should try Progress Quest: http://www.progressquest.com/ It's a lot more family friendly version of an MMORPG, and i predict most of the future games will be looking at it for ideas.

If you want to just grind infinitely for free, might I suggest ProgressQuest?

You havn't heard of Progress Quest have you?

Basically the idea is that you're entirely automated, and outside initial character generation you get no input whatsoever into the game. In fact the game is designed to minimize character interaction as much as possible.

Originally there was much cheating my editing character stats and that sort of thing (strength is ideal, as it allows you to carry more and you spend less time in town "selling", as you sell in large batch at once, 1000 snots is better than 100 snots per trip) as well as hacking character levels. Normal players are added to the Hall of fame; however, hackers and cheaters are found and added to the Hall of Infamy. It works rather well, and if you cheat, you get to join the "special class".

You havn't heard of Progress Quest have you?

Basically the idea is that you're entirely automated, and outside initial character generation you get no input whatsoever into the game. In fact the game is designed to minimize character interaction as much as possible.

Originally there was much cheating my editing character stats and that sort of thing (strength is ideal, as it allows you to carry more and you spend less time in town "selling", as you sell in large batch at once, 1000 snots is better than 100 snots per trip) as well as hacking character levels. Normal players are added to the Hall of fame; however, hackers and cheaters are found and added to the Hall of Infamy. It works rather well, and if you cheat, you get to join the "special class".

You havn't heard of Progress Quest have you?

Basically the idea is that you're entirely automated, and outside initial character generation you get no input whatsoever into the game. In fact the game is designed to minimize character interaction as much as possible.

Originally there was much cheating my editing character stats and that sort of thing (strength is ideal, as it allows you to carry more and you spend less time in town "selling", as you sell in large batch at once, 1000 snots is better than 100 snots per trip) as well as hacking character levels. Normal players are added to the Hall of fame; however, hackers and cheaters are found and added to the Hall of Infamy. It works rather well, and if you cheat, you get to join the "special class".

Hear hear! My daughters told me I might as well unplug the cable TV because there was never anything on it worth watching (took me by surprise, but they're smart kids). That was two years ago; have watched less than 2 minutes of TV since then, total, amongst the whole family.

Of course they spend all their non-study time playing WoW, which is a total waste of time. Some day they'll have the maturity to go beyond that, and waste their time in a more productive and satisfying way -- playing Vanguard like their parents.

Sorry about the SOE reference, but certain online games are worth putting up with Windows and Sony Online Entertainment. But there ye go, I'm too old to be that moral any more.

Also, my Demicanadian Battle-Felon is level 41 now, I'm so proud... http://www.progressquest.com/ Stop reading this and go have fun.

Progress Quest is even more successful at extracting the core essence of MMORPGs, and distilling them down to their bare essentials in a way that enhances the playability of the game to the ultimate degree. Well, measured along one dimension, at least.

(And it's not specifically an April Fools joke; download it and try it out, the executable is real. Windows app, generally runs absolutely perfectly in Wine.)

This, then, is the game for you.

Ah - I see we have a Progress Quest fan here.

Exactly. I think the creators of Progress Quest would be available as "security consultants" to help them fix this glaring security hole.

Gold farming would also be taken care of, just in case they needed another reason.

Has anyone considered writing an MMO where scripting up the client and making bots is part of the game. It seems so many people just play to be the l33t357 (did I spell that right?), and they get to there by botting, so why not have a game where that is the aim.

But, see... Most people don't want to MAKE bots, they just want to USE them. To that end, I suggest a game that pre-includes everything necessary to fire-and-forget:
http://www.progressquest.com/

Well, kinda.

http://www.progressquest.com/

Progress Quest is a next generation computer role-playing game. Gamers who have played modern online role-playing games, or almost any computer role-playing game, or who have at any time installed or upgraded their operating system, will find themselves incredibly comfortable with Progress Quest's very familiar gameplay.

kyb

Try Progress Quest! Just download it, run it, and let it start leveling you up while you get on with your life. Why spend time grinding? Let Progress Quest do all the heavy-lifting for you! (and medium- and light-lifting, and everything else for that matter.)

Indeed. I have also met some wonderful people through an MMORPG.

I'm getting tired of RPGs and FPSs.

You could always try Progress Quest. It really does take all the boring parts out of an RPG. It leaves you with... nothing?

Heading to the killing fields...

Slaying an adolescent Half-Dwarf... Got Half-Dwarf beard

Slaying a porn elemental... Got porn elemental lube

Heading back into town to sell your stuff...

Buying upgrades...

Heading to the killing fields...

Too much work... just play Progress Quest

Switch games and work smarter not harder: http://www.progressquest.com

I'm already at level 75!!

Yes, this is indeed a glaring omission. Here is the number you require:

Progress Quest: 284,913

That's roughly twice Eve Online's population, and maybe a tenth of Runescape's free players.

(source:)

I don't see any numbers for Progress Quest! That game is awesome!

If you can only find enjoyment in watching a bar fill, you will never enjoy an RPG. /restated

Except of course for Progress Quest.

It sounds like Progress Quest with a prettier interface. One of many available "fire and forget" rpgs.

Gamers who have played modern online role-playing games, or almost any computer role-playing game, or who have at any time installed or upgraded their operating system, will find themselves incredibly comfortable with Progress Quest's very familiar gameplay.

For those who haven't tried it; IMHO it's the first MMORPG that provides all the best excitement of everquest without any of the tedium.

It's called progress quest.

Progress Quest is all about "find my fish" and "deliver this block of wood to the next town" and it's never gotten boring. Maybe that's because one of my quests was to "placte the fire giants" and the next was to "exterminate the fire giants."

Xogkraev, 76th level Hunter-Stranger, Double Wookie

Look for me (as Lars Overshank) in Expodrine, scragging those Cheese Elementals.

If goldfarming is okay, the[n] using a bot to goldfarm is okay. It's my subscription money.

You know, I've seen this attitude before, and it disgusts me. Not the goldfarming attitude (though I find that disgusting, too), but the attitude that since you pay a subscription fee, you're entitled to do whatever you want to in a game.

First of all, you're flat out wrong. If you read your EULA, you will find that there are a lot of things (probably a lot more than you even realize) that are outright prohibited. That in itself is enough to show that "It's my subscription money" doesn't mean jack when it comes to you doing stupid things. Every game I know of prohibits using 'bots in the EULA.

Let me put it another way that maybe you can understand. Paying an annual fee for a driver's license doesn't give you the right to do whatever the hell you want on the freeways. If you deliberately make the roads unsafe for other drivers, you'll be banned from driving. Paying a monthly fee for a game license doesn't give you the right to do whatever the hell you want in the game. If you deliberately make the game not fun for other players, you'll be banned from playing. Capiche?

All that aside, there's another principle at work, too. When you sign up to play an MMORPG, you're also implicitly agreeing to become part of that community. As such, you have certain social responsibilities as a part of that community, the primary of which IMHO is to not be an asshole. Even if the EULA has no prohibitions in it at all, your comment would still be flawed. Sure, maybe you could technically do whatever you wanted, but if any but an extremely small number of people did, the game would quickly lose its community and you'd be left with nothing but 'bots playing. No one will pay a monthly fee just for their 'bots to play with other people's 'bots, and the game would quickly die.

Hey, maybe that's what you want. But it's obviously not what Blizzard and other WoW players want, and I for one hope they wield their banhammer a lot more often.

As for goldfarming, it's just plain stupid, and I'll never understand why a market for this stuff exists in the first place. If I'm paying a monthly fee to play a game, it will be a cold day in hell before I pay other people money on top of that to play the game for me. And anyone who buys in-game items with out-of-game money is a fool in my book. But then, I come from the era of pencil-n-paper RPGs. If I were a GM and someone offered me cash for their character to get in-game wealth or items, I would quickly find a creatively gruesome way to irrevocably kill off their character, and would likely never invite that person to play again.

Perhaps a better idea than outright banning these people's accounts would be to make them waste their time. Slowly nerf their characters until the game eventually becomes practically unplayable. After all, if we're going to let real life affect our in-game worlds, why should such effects only be positive?

I'm sorry if my harsh opinion keeps you from having fun, but it's for the best to the majority of players. Perhaps you should try a more farming-friendly game instead, such as Progress Quest. I think you'll find it infinitely more fun that these boring old games that make you work for what you get.

My MMORPG of choice, Progress Quest (http://www.progressquest.com/), allows you to make a sandwich, go to the mall or take a three-week vacation without having to stop levelling up your character. You can even play PQ and a text adventure simultaneously! And it even works under vanilla WINE.

You might be interested in this game then.

Y'know, I'm real fuzzy on why users can't use bots to do the endless level grind. I mean, Progress Quest would be way, way, way less fun if I had to click on a little box for every enemy I slew...

Yeah, brag about all your games's updates. I'm just pissed that there hasn't been any updates to Progress Quest in, like, forever. :-(

After paying $50+ for the Everquest2...

Progress Quest

Already done!

http://www.progressquest.com/

http://www.progressquest.com/ provides hours and hours of fun and only has one control - Alt+F4 ;)

Jesus, I am absolutely stupefied that people do this.

I've already written one comment about this in a different article and mentioned it in a blog post at my blog, so I'll try not to repeat that stuff here.

But for real, I'm truly saddened that the "RP" in MMORPG means so little these days. Everyone keeps taking about how much they hate grinding levels. Funny, when I used to play Dungeons and Dragons with my buddies, I never seemed to mind that my wizard was only level (whatever). Why? Because the point of the game wasn't to win, it was to have fun and (gasp!) socialize. Those of you who remember the old pencil-and-paper games, can you imagine a player offering a game master five bucks for 1,000 freebie gold pieces? If I were the game master, I would immediately figure out some heinous irrevocable death for that character.

What some people see as mindless grinding through levels, I see as an opportunity to meet other players, some of whom are rather interesting. What some people see as farming for game currency, I see as an opportunity to roleplay and boost my reputation. Not this silly reputation by ownership of a cool gametoy, but the reputation as someone who is fun and interesting to run missions with.

My MMORPG of choice is City of Heroes. One of my favorite characters is a Taxibot. We hardly ever level. We can't kill crap by ourselves. We have a lot of fun. The fun of the game isn't mindlessly killing mobs of enemies, although I do get fleeting enjoyment from figuring out strategies to defeat particularly tough enemies. The fun isn't even getting that new high-level power, although I do get fleeting enjoyment from seeing the cool effect of it. These things are supposed to add to the enjoyment of the game, not to be the enjoyment. My advice for MMORPG players (most MUD players figured this out a long time ago): If you really want to get long-term enjoyment from the game, get over that stuff quickly.

I get frustrated because I often wonder how many people even bother to read the mission descriptions they're given before they go to empty a warehouse full of villains. Sometimes I'll be in a group of people and I'll say something game-related ("We can't let Ubelmann succeed!"), and I often get responses that indicate that the people in my group have no clue ("Who's Ubelmann?"). Needless to say, those people don't get invited to run in a group with me again, and the people who do run with me regularly have lots of fun "grinding" levels, even if it is the 100th time we have been to disable the Rikti portal devices.

If level grinding has got you down and you've having so little fun that you feel the need to buy stuff on eBay or Sony's Station Exchange to use in the game, I'm begging you to play Progress Quest instead. We'll all have more fun, and you don't even have to spend a dime!

I know what the first replies to this post will be: Wah, people play games for different reasons. Yeah, well, if your reason is so that you can brag about your über-whatever with a gazillion gold to the lower levels, you're not playing at all; you're being a pompous ass that the game would be better off without. Do you go around in real life bragging about how much more money you've got than people on welfare? We're not impressed.

Damn, so much for keeping this post short. Oops, maybe I'll do better next time we have an "Buying virtual goods is a good thing" type of story.

Heh. Reminds me of Progress Quest, a self-playing MMORPG. I had it running on my PC at work for months straight, eventually making it into the top 10. Then somehow my save file got deleted and all my hard work was lost. I was devistated.

Well I, for one, think that Mark Jacobs is 100% right.

I don't want to get all nostalgic, but does anyone else in here remember the ancient days of yore when an RPG was played with maps, miniatures, and funny-shaped dice, when the object of the game was to have fun by escaping into fantasy worlds and pretending you're someone else, someone who may be like you or may be as different from you as night and day? We used to make fun of people who got too much into the game mechanics. We called them "roll" players.

I feel sorry for people who have grown up recently and only know of RPG's as computer games. Something important has been lost when the creativity and imagination of a game master was replaced with a computer's unrelenting adherence to game rules and regulations. The goal is no longer to escape and have fun, it is to WIN. Now, players will do anything to have a bigger and better sword than the next guy has, who is trying to have a bigger and better axe than you have.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the games out there today. I play City of Heroes myself, and I enjoy it a lot, but it's not the same. It's hard to feel very heroic when you have to deal with typical conversations like, "Hey, can you help me with a sewer run? I'm trying to get to level 38 and need to farm some krakens. We don't need to kill the hydra, because I'm only two bubbles away." When I stick solely to roleplaying and completely avoid game-speak, I get accused of being a weirdo and generally avoided. (Disclaimer: Yes, there are exceptions, very few and far between.)

The whole online auction stuff is a wonderful illustration of just how non-RP computer RPG's have become. I have a question for people who participate in such silliness: If you're not going to acquire your goodies by playing the game, why bother playing at all? Why not just stick to Progress Quest and save yourself all of that tedium of having to actually earn stuff?

As for Sony, I guess Mark covered it pretty well. Can't you see that what you're doing is hurting the genre of RPG's more than they already have been? What the hell does buying a sword on "Station Exchange" have to do with role playing? Nothing. In the article, Mark says:

We will gladly 'leave money on the table' to ensure that whether or not you like our games, that they remain as that, games and not an entertainment version of day-trading.

I say hooray for him and for Mythic for not selling out, once and for all making the R in RPG meaningless. As for me, I've never played EverQuest, and now you can count me out for good. Apparently, there's a large market of people out there playing this game who believe owning virtual goodies is more important than role playing, and because of this, it is obviously not a game I would be interested in.

Yeah, because, you know, we want to reward the people that play the game unhealthy amounts of time. Let's screw everyone who doesn't play at least 60 hours a week!

Playing 60+ hours a week isn't dedication, it's stupidity. It's living a one dimensional life. Rewarding this isn't "justified" or "valid." It's brain-dead, plain and simple. It's the designers saying "we don't know how to reward play based on skill, so you should all play as much as you possibly can!" The players who play this game as a way of life already get plenty of rewards. They get to the high level dungeons first. They kill the raid bosses first. They get the best equipment first. Why should they also have the highest PVP ranks? Shouldn't these go out to the players who are skilled in PVP? And if you want to reward time played rather than skill, wouldn't you be better off playing Progress Quest?

What we really need is a science fiction expansion pack for Progress Quest!