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Polar opposites ?

Central control of the economy
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check

"The state" is totalitarian : determines every action you take
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check

Favors "nanny state", unemployment benefits that equal normal wage, national health insurance, refusing medical care to "non-productive" members of society (as does Obama's adviser btw*) ...
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check

When "saving" on medical expenses on the "less productive" members of society failed, these governments switched to direct execution of those deemed unproductive
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check

Executed holocausts in historical governments, starting with political opponents, then sick and infirm (anyone not a "net gain" for the economy) and finally on a racist or religious basis :
a. socialism : check check check
b. fascism : check

The basis of the ideology is that all individuals must "be made" equal, by the power of the state. In order to do this massive expansion of state power is advocated :
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check

The systems call themselves "socialist" :
a. socialism : check
b. fascism : check (full name of "nazi" party = national socialist german worker's party)

Main difference :
a. socialism : doesn't tolerate any non-party-members in any position of power (right down to the person that checks if the "do you want fries with that" jobbers arrive in time)
b. fascism : is in favor of a system of temporarily handing state power into the hands of certain individuals. Only the top level of society is really thoroughly part of the party, it is possible in a fascist state for a non-party-member, even a Jew, to be in any position, except the top of the company, whether CEO or Chairman.

The definition of "far left" used to be simple : anything ideology that advocates central control of the economy. Obviously both fascism and socialism satisfy this criterium. Bush should have been considered "center", not especially rightist, not especially leftist, open to solutions on both sides.

I don't know where people get the idea that socialists somehow weren't racist even 20 years ago (the KKK for example, was a department of the democrat party of the united states, and was part of the "lefty loonies" section of the party, ie. left of the center of the party)

Tell me, at where exactly is the "polar" opposite between these two ?

* Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's "key" advisor for health care reform, writes about rationing health care for older Americans that "allocation (of medical care) by age is not invidious discrimination." (The Lancet, January 2009) He calls this form of rationing â" which is fundamental to Obamacare goals â" "the complete lives system." You see, at 65 or older, you've had more life years than a 25-year-old. As such, the latter can be more deserving of cost-efficient health care than older folks.

Note that the democrat "death panel" already exists, it's been created as part of the stimulus bill. It's called "CHORE" (Center for Health Outcomes Research and Evaluation). And yes, they will deny medical care to anyone on any form of government supported pension. That's one of the basisses they proclaim for themselves.

This is interesting. I heard Khrushchev told the military no when they wanted to build a bomb that would wipe out the whole earth. The plan was that if the US initiated a first strike, then they would just wipe everything out. I think it was to be as big as a super tanker. Even the Russians thought this was crazy, but I have heard that it really is possible.

http://www.rense.com/general40/dooms.htm

It's called a WTD. Weapon of Total Destruction. Now that's a big bomb.

In other news, Apollo 11 was faked.

Ludicrous, ridiculous, etc. NOTHING man can do on this planet can even begin to compare to the scale of energies involved in natural phenomena.

Strongly disagree. The only place the water temperature makes a difference is at the surface and a small change in temperature can have potentially devastating effects. On the flip side, nothing you can do by heating the ocean will likely help, because the ocean has already been heated; the energy is coming out and we are perceiving it.

On the other hand, we know relatively little about these weather patterns' formation - precisely how it happens is still something of a mystery. So odds are that if anything, they'll only make the problem worse, which is what usually happens when we tamper with weather.

OK. Corporations are not human beings. Yes, of course, the law states they are people, blah, blah, but ultimately they are NOT human beings.
A psychological analysis of a Corporation as revealed in the book by same name states they are pathological liars, cheats and worse criminals who have no sense of honor, truthfulness, and honesty.
I don't blame them for it. Its their nature.
Why else would AIG want the money it donated to charity back to pay bonuses to its management?
Why else would Monsanto try to override local laws that prevent GMO foods from being grown locally?
Why does Exxon STILL fight paying compensation for the Valdez disaster and get it overturned even after all these years?
Why do you think Time-Warner and others want to overturn municipalities from providing broadband to their cities and towns where Corporates have refused to set up shop?
Am not paranoid or crazy, and am not part of the left-wing alliance stating ALL corporations are evil, etc.
Am just saying this is their nature: Selfish, Loathsome, cheat, liar and a thief if they can get away with it.

There is no convincing evidence that moderate consumption of aspartame causes harm.

September 30, 1980-- The Public Board of Inquiry concludes NutraSweet should not be approved pending further investigations of brain tumors in animals. The board states it "has not been presented with proof of reasonable certainty that aspartame is safe for use as a food additive."

January 1981-- Donald Rumsfeld, CEO of Searle, states in a sales meeting that he is going to make a big push to get aspartame approved within the year. Rumsfeld says he will use his political pull in Washington, rather than scientific means, to make sure it gets approved.

January 21, 1981-- Ronald Reagan is sworn in as President of the United States. Reagan's transition team, which includes Donald Rumsfeld, CEO of G. D. Searle, hand picks Dr. Arthur Hull Hayes Jr. to be the new FDA Commissioner.

March, 1981-- An FDA commissioner's panel is established to review issues raised by the Public Board of Inquiry.

May 19, 1981-- Three of six in-house FDA scientists who were responsible for reviewing the brain tumor issues, Dr. Robert Condon, Dr. Satya Dubey, and Dr. Douglas Park, advise against approval of NutraSweet, stating on the record that the Searle tests are unreliable and not adequate to determine the safety of aspartame.

July 15, 1981-- In one of his first official acts, Dr. Arthur Hayes Jr., the new FDA commissioner, overrules the Public Board of Inquiry, ignores the recommendations of his own internal FDA team and approves NutraSweet for dry products.

There is the La Palma volcanoe in the canary islands that could do generate a tsumnami again.

If OXCART is the big news that makes me wonder about these particular accounts.

During the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles the military instituted a mandatory black out of the entire city of LA & fired 1400+ Anti-Aircraft rounds at a single, quoting the military, "unidentified aircraft." The shelling lasted more than an hour. Despite numerous confirmed hits the craft remained airborne and eventually flew off without ever being identified. (Read the 1942 LA times article).

In 1948 green fireballs were seen over the south-western skies of the US near nuclear weapons research sites. Famous meteoriticist Dr. Lincoln La Paz declared they weren't normal meteors. In 1949 the USAF started Project Twinkle under the direction of Dr. Anthony Mirarchi.

The study concluded in a now declassified report that cinetheodolites had tracked 4 objects traveling at an "altitude of ~150K ft" (~28.5 miles!), were "30 ft. in diameter", & traveling at an "undeterminable, yet high speed." Mirarchi went on to later criticize a Time magazine article that claimed there was no proof to support the existence of UFOs.

Mirarchi wrote, "There was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.' He said he didn't see how the Navy could say there had been no concrete evidence of the phenomena." (see here for more details)

Also in 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a self-proclaimed skeptic, joined Project Blue Book as a scientific adviser. By 1969 when Blue Book was shutdown Hynek did an about face. He wrote several books, particularly, "The Hynek UFO Report" which repeatedly stated that the attitude of Blue Book was, "it can't be therefore it isn't."

He also gave an interview, available on YouTube, where he said, "I was there at Blue Book and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, don't rock the boat, & I saw it [with] my own eyes. ... The cases that were very difficult to explain they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that." He later went on to found the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS).

July 13 - 29th of 1952, over the skies of Washington DC, numerous UFOs were seen by observers on the ground, in the air, & tracked on radar. The situation escalated & General Samford, the Director of Intelligence of the USAF, held an emergency press conference. When asked by reporters what people were seeing he suggested the lights on the ground may have looked like they were in the air because inversions act like an "air lens" & bend light rays. He added that something similar could have "tricked" radar in to thinking it was tracking aerial targets. (ufologie.net...)

In 1969 an Air Force scientific report titled "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages" (Menkello, F.G. Report No. 6112, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center) made it clear inversions strong enough to create the visual effect described during the 1952 press-conference could not exist in earth's atmosphere.

1956 at RAF Bentwaters, Lakenheath, & Sculthorpe an object was sighted by several military officers on the ground while simultaneously tracked on radar at 2 different stations. The object moved at ~4000 mph and was monitored for several hours during which two planes were scrambled.

When the 1st de Havilland Venom locked on to the object the UFO shot to the rear of the plane. The pilot tried evasive maneuvers, couldn't break free & eventually had to return to base to refuel.

The 2nd plane encountered mechanical difficulties as it flew within range of the object. The

"As an aside, the US is only two states away from a constitutional convention. I recommend we get two more states on board and try to retake some power from the federal government. It's already far more powerful than intended."

If this is true (big IF), I think nothing would make me happier. Could you please post where you got this information from. I'm usually on top of all things political in the USA and this one has flown under the radar.

Seems to be mentioned on a lot of blogs, rather than mainstream news. That makes me take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps the states are calling conventions on different points. I thought I read something like that, and the 32 figure is over the balanced budget amendment (of course, the constitution could be tossed or revised in other ways).

Here, here, and here, though slightly less credible.

This is a pretty slow process, and happens at the state level, so I'm not shocked the national news has missed it. This magical 32 number keeps coming up, so I'm guessing there's something to it. I can't confirm it without some help, though. Any thoughts on who would potentially know?

How about they require gun ownership from all of their citizens. I'll bet that would do more good.

Here's my evidence, where's his? http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

If they are our friend, then please explain why they keep getting caught spying on us? That's not something friends normally do to each other.

And I'm not paranoid in the least - Israel has admitted to their spying.

And yet it continues happening, year after year.

We shouldn't be rewarding bad behavior with aid. Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it. Israel needs to be punished for its crimes against the US by losing its aid. The time has long since passed.

I hope one of the reasons Sir-cut City went tits-up was their chicken-shit maneuver a couple of years ago firing 3,400 of its more experienced workers to replace them with new hires willing to work for less. Mind you, the folks they canned weren't getting rich there, making on the order of $11-12 an hour after working at CC for 7 years. In the meantime in 2006 the CEO raked in $10 million and the executive VP pulled down almost VP $7 million. Our corporate masters appreciated CC's flinty-eyed approach, the stock went up .35 cents a share that day (3.5 times its current value). Wall Street hates it when workers are paid enough to sleep indoors, "The Street" has been pissed at CostCo for years because they pay $15 an hour.

CC's prices were higher, their sale items were almost never in stock, and the vast majority of the times I shopped there I walked out empty handed. But the thing that ticked me off most as a customer was their "double" mail-in rebate policy. They might hawk a rodent for $10-$15, but you'd have to send in 2 separate rebates, which meant you had to photocopy the UPC for one of the rebates. Folks would forget to go to Kinko's and the MIR postmark period would toll. I'm sure CC had a lower rebate redemption rate than their competitors (and higher total rebate amounts per item), but it still didn't help because it generated so much ill-will. I stopped even glancing at their circulars a long time ago.

Afghanistan was already in the Stone Age. Perhaps you forgot the part where the Government of Afghanistan harbored the man who murdered thousands of Americans and refused to hand him over to face justice?

Just to keep things in perspective:
a) The Taliban always maintained that they did not know where Bin Laden was, and even if they did, they had no control over his actions.
b) To this day, no evidence has ever been presented suggesting that Bin Laden was even to blame other than some obviously heavily doctored tapes, many of which were proven to have gross mistranslations. References follow:
http://www.rense.com/general18/ez.htm
http://911lies.org/fake_bin_laden.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/020807tapesdoctored.htm

This will likely be disregarded as conspiracy theorist whackoism, but I throw it into the ring as food for thought.

If you're going to launch the most expensive war in history then perhaps make sure there are not gigantic questions surrounding what appears to be a poorly constructed false pretext as a reason for doing it.

Wars of aggression? Afghanistan is a war of aggression? Hmmph.

Hmmph indeed. Your blind acceptance of the drivel that the public gets spoon fed by the media makes me wonder why you read this site.

Over here we question the crap that media shits out on our plate. You want to eat it and say "yum" then digg.com will suit you better.

The only reason Judaism isn't as active on the conversion issue is because of the clear tendency towards racism in the old testament. Even today the ashkenazi and sephardi divisions persist. And the people who are "chosen", in the central theme of the faith, do not have to worry so much about the goyyim, who largely don't matter, and are inferior in the most literal of ways. I have spent the earlier part of my life learning about all these faiths, in depth, individually. What you have to understand is that you are talking about books written millenia ago. Do not try to make any of them appear civilized or rational, because they are not. The Torah contains some of the most sickening passages of bloodshed and massacre in the entire biblical history - the God of the new testament is actually known to be more 'merciful'.

There is no rationality in the tales of religion. The muslim fanatics can kill in the name of religious hegemony, and the jewish nutjobs can kill in the name of their superiority and their divine rights and chosen blood.

Ask yourself why the more religious right wing Jews are the ones who are warmongering, disgusting war criminals, whereas the secular ones have always called for peace. Who killed Isaac Rabin? It wasn't those terrible muslims, was it? Who lives in the settlements that are built on the blood and land of innocent people? Have you not heard the words of the civilized, secular SPECIAL FORCES divisions - the finest men and women in Israel- that refused to serve in the IDF and published widely read letters? Do you think you know more about these wars and this mess than they do? All religions contain ugliness, because like the other poster said, it's part of evolution - without it they don't survive. There wouldn't be a single practising jew today if 'disbelieving' had no consequences.

"All Israelites will have a part in the future world . . . The Goyim, at the end of the world will be handed over to the angel Duma and sent down to hell."
--Zohar, Shemoth, Toldoth Noah, Lekh-Lekha

That's religion for you.

A quick search on how the jewish faith and racial mindset affects politics will give you things like this, and if you go read for yourself you will find much more. Some examples:
http://www.rense.com/general42/morej.htm
http://opposingdigits.com/forums/about2072.html

Don't forget to read the section on scripture. And don't take this as an attack on one faith - this is a reminder of what they all are, or rather, what they NEED to be.

small amounts of volcanic ash might only irritate your lungs, but if a supervolcanic eruption took place, it would likely throw up tremendous amounts (~1000 cubic miles) of tephra/pyroclast, the finest particles of which could circle the globe and remain suspended in the atmosphere for years. if you're immediately downwind from such an eruption, you'd be breathing in heavy amounts of what is essentially microscopic shards of broken glass for weeks or months.

archaeological evidence has been uncovered showing that the mass deaths of plains animals 12 million years ago during a supervolcanic explosion at Yellowstone were due primarily to lung disease from volcanic ash inhalation. even many animals that survived the initial ashfall were still killed by the ash stirred up by their own movements or wind.

Taste the rainbow!

Mmmm... Goodness.

http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

Here's a town where guns were *required by law* to be in every house.

When it was being written up, everyone was proclaiming there'd be bloodbaths in the streets, and violence would skyrocket with people shooting each other left and right over little disagreements.

The truth of the matter is that crime dropped immediately, down 89%. Now, it's a relatively small town [Though it's grown much larger since, and the crime rates have not.] but even if nothing had happened, if crime rates had not changed, that's more than enough to say "Why ban guns?" What's even more interesting is that gun crimes in places like Britain have been RISING since their gun bans have been in place. Though I understand this has been handwaved away as simply being the police reporting gun crimes properly now, instead of as other types of crime. [Here's a 2003 BBC citation on rising crime rates: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3195908.stm#map And here's an article about the rise in crime in general: http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html There are plenty more articles out there if you do some looking.]

The key thing people who want to ban guns do not fundamentally grasp is that guns do not cause crime. It's amazing how many people make this illogical conclusion: That if you give someone a gun, they will go out and commit crimes with it. Reality is drastically different of course.

Regardless of all these articles and statistics, at this point banning guns in America isn't going to work anyways. Too many people have one; guns, like drugs or alcohol, simply cannot be outright banned, no matter how much the state wants it to be so. Banning only drives them underground where they do not have proper oversight. Criminals will have guns regardless of the law.

Could be something like this:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/05/army-removes-pa.html

http://www.rense.com/general37/skull.htm

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/vts.html

"One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports."

Scarecrow for birds? They really had to stretch to come up with something more innocuous eh? ;).

"Except we're not in a free market"

But quite a number seem to claim that you're in a free enough market for companies to buy politicians and legislators ;).

The way I see it, there MUST be regulation.

The issue is not whether you get less or more regulation, the issue whether you get good or bad regulation.

You are more likely to get bad regulation if the companies to be regulated get to create or influence the creation of regulation.

See: http://www.rense.com/general33/fd.htm

A game becomes crap if the players get to buy the referee/umpire or the rule makers.

Why is regulation so often bad?

Go figure what happens if voters keep voting for politicians mainly because those politicians got the most money from companies... Hint: you are selecting for politicians who are more likely to be bought/buyable.

Q: How many free market economists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Free market economists don't change lightbulbs - they continue writing their papers in the dark and wait for Adam Smith's Invisible Hand to do it.

There's also the Palomares incident, as well as 40 year old rumours that a 5th bomb was never recovered and is still on the bottom of the Mediterranean, having recently started leaking radiation.

Obama pals around with more than that!

His mentor and advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski created the Mujahideen in July 1979. The same Mujahideen that turned into Al-Qaeda.

He admitted to supporting Pol Pot through China. Pol Pot killed a larger percentage of his own people than anyone else in history.

Brzezinski said it was "one of the happiest days of my life" when he got a taxpayer supported grant and asylum for Chechen terrorist Akhmadov. Russia has wanted to extradite him since 2003.

Obama has stated since July 2007 that he would bomb Pakistan without their consent.

He has supported Georgia's President Saakashvili even though they started the conflict against Russia by firing and bombing civilians.

The last President who had no foreign policy experience and relied on his advisors was George W. Bush

McCain/Palin aren't any better.

Fools, wake up! All the elections are staged! The Illuminati control who gets elected, in fact they control who even makes the candidacy. http://www.rense.com/general58/suspre.htm

your kidding me. bad data? how about the intentional an orchestraed manipulation of the money supply desgined to create a bubble. Heres a couple links off the top of my head for you idiots out there: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6914.html http://www.rense.com/general83/they.htm

For several years Saddam bombed Iran (military and civilians) with Chemical weapons, handed to him by Rumsfeld. Iran demonstrated the capability to make similar weapons but emphasized that use of WMDs even in retaliation to enemy's action is against religious principals.

Now you are suggesting that Iran would nuke the second most sacred Islamic religious site after Mecca in a suicidal mission?!!

I also argued against the existence of any suicidal tendencies among Iranian leaders in previous comments which hopefully will shed some light on your distorted view of reality.

If you think the parent is insightful read this ...

During the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles the military instituted a mandatory black out of the entire city of LA & fired 1400+ Anti-Aircraft rounds at a single, quoting the military, "unidentified aircraft." This lasted for more than an hour. Despite numerous confirmed hits the craft remained airborne and eventually flew off without ever being identified. (Read the 1942 LA times article).

In 1948 green fireballs were seen over the south-western skies of the US near nuclear weapons research sites. Famous meteoriticist Dr. Lincoln La Paz declared they weren't normal meteors. In 1949 the USAF started Project Twinkle under the direction of Dr. Anythony Mirachi.

The study concluded in a now declassified report that cinetheodolites had tracked 4 objects traveling at an "altitude of ~150K ft" (~28.5 miles!), were "30 ft. in diameter", & traveling at an "undeterminable, yet high speed." Mirachi went on to later criticize a Time magazine article that claimed there was no proof to support the existence of UFOs.

Mirachi wrote, "There was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.' He said he didn't see how the Navy could say there had been no concrete evidence of the phenomena." (see here for more details)

Also in 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a self-proclaimed skeptic, joined Project Blue Book as a scientific adviser. By 1969 when Blue Book was shutdown Hynek did an about face. He wrote several books, particularly, "The Hynek UFO Report" which repeatedly stated that the attitude of Blue Book was, "it can't be therefore it isn't."

He also gave an interview, available on YouTube, where he said, "I was there at Blue Book and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, don't rock the boat, & I saw it [with] my own eyes. ... The cases that were very difficult to explain they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that." He later went on to found the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS).

July 13 - 29th of 1952, over the skies of Washington DC, numerous UFOs were seen by observers on the ground, in the air, & tracked on radar. The situation escalated & General Samford, the Director of Intelligence of the USAF, held an emergency press conference. When asked by a reporters what people were seeing he suggested the lights on the ground may have looked like they were in the air because inversions act like an "air lens" & bend light rays. He added that something similar could have "tricked" radar in to thinking it was tracking aerial targets. (http://ufologie.net/htm/usa1952.htm)

In 1969 an Air Force scientific report titled "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages" (Menkello, F.G. Report No. 6112, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center) made it clear inversion strong enough to create the visual effect described during the 1952 press-conference could not exist in earth's atmosphere.

1956 at Bentwater/Lakenheath an object was sighted by several military officers on the ground while simultaneously tracked on radar at 2 different stations. The object moved at ~4000 mph and was monitored for several hours during which two planes were scrambled.

When the 1st DeHavilland Venom locked on to the object the UFO shot to the rear of the plane. The pilot tried evasive maneuvers, couldn't break free & eventually had to return to base to refuel.

The 2nd plane encountered mechanical difficulties as it flew within range of the object. The US sponsored Condon Report had this to say, "

So many articles are coming out about the newly discovered h1b abuses, that you might think that, because everybody finally knows about the abuses, the problems will be fixed.

Sorry folks, but the abuses have been well know for nearly a decade.

September 2000
Silicon Valley Uses Immigrant Engineers to Keep Salaries

High-skilled immigrant workers in Silicon Valley are being exploited by employers. Existing immigration law sets a cap on the number the H1-B visas the industry can use to hire immigrant engineers, so this year Silicon Valley electronics giants have been pushing for more Hl-B workers. While H1-B status laborers boost corporate bottom lines, there is a devastating effect on the workers themselves.

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/10-silicon-valley-uses-immigrant-engineers-to-keep-salaries/

2002
Enron and the H-1B American Worker Replacement Program

H-1B visa holders are often compared to indentured servants for U.S. corporations.

http://www.americanreformation.org/Articles/GlennJackson/EnronandH1BVisas.htm

February 2003
Is Anybody Out There? Is Anyone Listening?

The H-1B recipients are often put in an exploitable position because if they lose their job, they are then deported back to their country of origin.

http://www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm

We might like to think that, now that the abuses are known, the problems with the program will be fixed.

Sorry folks, but it looks like these abuses have been well known for many years.

September 2000
Silicon Valley Uses Immigrant Engineers to Keep Salaries
> High-skilled immigrant workers in Silicon Valley are being exploited by employers. Existing immigration law sets a cap on the number the H1-B visas the industry can use to hire immigrant engineers, so this year Silicon Valley electronics giants have been pushing for more Hl-B workers. While H1-B status laborers boost corporate bottom lines, there is a devastating effect on the workers themselves.
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/10-silicon-valley-uses-immigrant-engineers-to-keep-salaries/

2002
Enron and the H-1B American Worker Replacement Program
> H-1B visa holders are often compared to indentured servants for U.S. corporations.
http://www.americanreformation.org/Articles/GlennJackson/EnronandH1BVisas.htm

February 2003
Is Anybody Out There? Is Anyone Listening?
The H-1B recipients are often put in an exploitable position because if they lose their job, they are then deported back to their country of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm

Yes, so people are 1 pixel.

Objects are closer then they appear! Tank or Apache or here or the classic example: Jurassic Park.

I read with interest the posts from individuals that had worked in some capacity with this type of technology. They all know the capability is better then most of the public believes it is. I for one believe them!

An added thought, the technology exists to see in a variety of spectrums (infrared, through clouds, ultra violet, etc...) and through a variety of obstacles...who knows what additional instruments are on our governments surveillance satellites. I would not be surprised if they could listen to the sounds inside my house, read what I am typing on my computer screen and see through multiple floors and/or walls directly into my house. I just feel sorry for them, how boring it would be to listen in, lol.

It does surprise me that others are surprised. So many people, even scientists are treated skeptically, treated as quacks, conspirators or frauds only to be vindicated years later.

A college friend's father worked for AT&T before the breakup of the baby bells. While he could not go into specifics, he did state that I would be shocked what was in his lab, on his drawing board - technology wise. He said most of it would not be made public for years in the future.

Read the Patriot Act and the FISA bill for your self and see:

Patriot Act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
http://www.rense.com/general34/takeover.htm

FISA bill:
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISA_Amendments_Act_of_2008
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM104_080619_fisapromise.htm

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Obama is definitely "in", so it won't matter if he wins, anyway.

Obama is backed by the Trilateral Commission, and has also been fully indoctrinated into the Bilderberg group. His campaign may be silent about it, but there is plenty of evidence that he is supporting their agenda.

you don't need to go all the way back to WWII we've been using a kind of atomic weapon since the iraq war. http://www.rense.com/general56/dep.htm 315-330 tons to so far 1575 tons of depleted uranium is enough to kill a lot of people.

we used them in the gulf war as well, and in Afghanistan too, mostly they're used as tank piercing rounds, but on impact they release quite a bit of DU which is why it's a favorite tank piercer not only do you pierce the armor, you kill the crew in a matter of minutes, plus America has over 100 million tons of the stuff, and it's not good for anything except tank piercing rounds, so they have to store it like any radioactive contaminated metals. the more they fire off as weapons, the less they have to store.

why there was NO remainder of anything a passenger plane crash leaves in a crash site, and there were NO bodies, passenger belongings, pieces of bodies, ANYTHING but fairly intact TWO bodies in the scene.

Are you saying there were no bodies, or were you saying there were two?

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers (a company involved in providing emergency engineering and post-collapse assistance) said "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts."

Of course, once you reach the level of batshitness you've achieved, you can simply ignore his testimony by saying "they got to him too!"

And I'm sure you simply don't accept the claim that the remains of 184 people were identified; surely "they" got to all 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory. It's a DOD facility, after all.

Are you saying there was no debris from the plane? That's simply incorrect; hell, you can even see photos of a bunch of it at this batshit conspiracy site. And photos of the plane debris inside the building (where, in answer to your question about the lawn, most of it ended up, in agreement with conservation of momentum) can be seen at this somewhat less batshit crazy site. And some more photos here. And more photos, with amazingly detailed analysis, here

But I'm sure "they" got to the owners of all of those sites.

tell me where the hell did the 767's huge tail has vanished.

757. If you can't get that much right after being corrected, I don't see any point in talking to you further.

Like most of the plane, the tail and wings got shredded, and ended up inside the building. As Mete Sozen, a structural engineer who studied the impact in computer simulation, put it, "At that speed, the plane itself is like a sausage skin. It doesn't have much strength and virtually crumbles on impact."

It's like shooting an aluminum foil origami crane out of an air cannon at high speed, through a stack of steel cheese graters, and then demanding "where's the crane's tail? There must be a trick!"

please, spare the bullshit. as if the world has never seen a passenger liner crash.

Into a building? One as hardened as the part of the Pentagon that was hit? Please, name me one similar crash.

Oh, and by the way, regarding your original question about simulating the piloting of the crash, see this:

Brian also consulted with a pair of commercial airline pilots who decided to try this kind of approach in a flight training simulator. Although the pilots were not sure the simulator models such scenarios with complete accuracy, they reported no significant difficulties in flying a 757 within an altitude of tens of feet at speeds between 350 and 550 mph (565 to 885 km/h) across smooth terrain. The only issue they encountered was constant warnings from the simulator about flying too fast and too low. These warnings were expected since the manufacturer does not recommend and FAA regulations prohibit flying a commercial aircraft the way Flight 77 was flown. These restrictions do not mean it is impossible for a plane to fly at those conditions but that it is extremely hazardous to do so, and safety was obviously not a concern to the terroris

There's evidence
that Kennedy's choice for VP, Lyndon Johnson, managed to bump him off
three years later allowing LBJ to become president. Maybe
McCain's just watching his back by choosing a VP that potential
assassination conspirators would like even less than
McCain.

How is accessing passwordless machines 'hacking'?

"There were hackers from Denmark, Italy, Germany, Turkey, Thailand ... Every night."

'I'd instant-message them, using WordPad, with a bit of a political diatribe. You know, I'd leave a message on their desktop that read, 'Secret government is blah blah blah."'

Airplane parts I can understand since I think an airplane of some kind struck the building. But the weird thing is that I've never seen any evidence of passenger's bodies at the Pentagon

I have never seen Neil Armstrong, neither have I seen Pluto. Doubting that Pluto exists and that Armstrong walked the moon is somewhat retarded though. The cool thing about living in the US is that things like trial evidence is public.

Try this for wreckage, and this for something a lot more gruesome. Please beware, these pictures are not for the faint of heart.

I know there is a level of respect which fire fighters show for the dead, but it still seems curious that we should have heard nothing at all.

Hearing requires listening. Given the enormous amount of noise in our current information society, it also means filtering. Your problem is that your filters are failing and you are listening to what is just random bullshit noise and you think it is communication.

Now, to be fair, I've not spent as much time focusing on the question of bodies as perhaps you have

I haven't been "focused" on this at all. The case as such doesn't interest me all that much. It took me all of 1 minute to find the Moussaui images last night however.

Oh, and you might think that I am posting a lot for someone who doesn't find 9/11 all that interesting, but please note that I am not posting about 9/11, I am posting about the fact that the general retardedness in the population is now at a level where we can elect G. W. Bush for president twice and people would rather believe harebrained conspiracy theories than good scientific evidence. That worries me a hell of a lot more than some insane towelheaded morons in a cave in Afghanistan.

...since at the Pentagon they cannot find:

The wings Any of the seats The tail ...

Who says? Your idiot tr00fer friends? Planes don't make a cartoon like plane-shaped hole when they hit a reinforced concrete building. Delicate structures like the wings and tail planes practically disintegrate. Hell, most of an aircraft is aluminum, and betrwwen fire and impact, not much remains intact. You wanna see the wreckage of AA flt 77? See here. It's right there, in the pentagon, in small, torn up, fire damaged pieces.

Idiot.

Impeaching the bastard would do wonders for our political system, regardless of how much time he's got left.

That is a point that is too overlooked these days. In order to restore the checks and balances, Bush and Cheney much be impeached before leaving office. Failure to do so sets the precedent that a sitting president can ignore limits to his power and order his staff to ignore Congressional subpoenas And after do so, that President can still complete his term of office. Allowing Bush and Cheney to go impeached finishes the process of turning the Constitution into "just a g*d dammed piece of paper" Bush hating isn't just about the temporary damages that occur during his presidency, but the lasting damages, like the destruction done to our rights and our Constitution. Bush hating is about the amount of freedoms we have lost because of his presidency and how it is very difficult to regain lost freedoms without bloodshed.

Honestly, when water isn't safe, where do you turn?

Actually, drinking too much water can be just as dangerous as drinking too much beer. People have died from drinking too much water.

I think it's extremely irresponsible of the "parents and lawmakers" to encourage behavior that may lead to water intoxication

"The real issue is, can someone who went through 20 years of science education as a student, lived his life in academia since then and even got a Nobel prize get a fair shake from bureaucrats who like education the way it is -- flawed and therefore always needing more money?"

No the real issue is could someone who went through 20 years of science education as a student, lived his life in academia since then and even got a Nobel prize pass an
1895 eighth grade test?

http://www.rense.com/general68/8th.htm

While we're at it.. read John Gatto's book: The Underground History of American Education
http://johntaylorgatto.com/

The people behind educatoin

No.

I'm not the grandparent, but they're correct; you can thank David Blunkett for that one. My Google-fu is failing me as this is the best link I can find right now but I remember hearing about it on the BBC at the time.

See the Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism. The U.S. is showing all of the symptoms. Beware of 6 and 14: these are key to making all of the others possible.

Boy, this thread is going off on a bit of a tangent.

You bring up an interesting point regarding the 6 guys sending money home.

I've seen estimates from about 30 billion to 300 billion dollars that are being being wired to other nations anually from legal and illegal workers in the US. While I can't fault the legal ones, especially since I occasionally send funds to help my Brazilian in-laws, the illegals are an unpleasant and growing addition to this problem. Why is it a problem? Because the money is not spent on the US economy. It is hemorraging from our economic system. Sure, it's cheap labor, but when this cheap labor is exlpoited on a large scale, the effect from disenfranchising an increasingly significant demographic of your customers (the U.S. workers that cost a bit more but will actually spend their money in the U.S.) by off-shore outsourcing and hiring illegal immigrants who wire their money back to the homeland, the system (U.S. econonmy) will eventually fail due to the money not re-entering it. Some say it is a nice way to get economic aid directly to the poorest residents of other nations -- not a completely unreasonable point, but at the same time we shouldn't be using that point to justify being a welfare system for other countries at the expense of our own country's economic well-being. I just hope that we find some sort of balance before it's too late. We don't want to be too protective or too open.

Some links:
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=4509
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-transfer2apr02,1,3240079.story
http://www.rense.com/general62/frain.htm
http://www.politicalprisonerblog.com/politicalprisonerblog/2008/04/money-launderin.html
(I don't agree with all of the ideas in these, but they're somewhat though provoking)

The fact that Israel has many nukes forward deployed is what scares the hell out of me. They do not believe in MAD!

Besides supervolcanos, you have mega tsunamis that could flatten the first 20 to so miles of the entire US eastern seaboard (not to mention much of the rest of the world). There's a maze of major faultlines off the US western seaboard (and some inland) - any of which could obliterate a sizable chunk of the landscape. A sufficiently sudden magnetic pole reversal wouldn't necessarily damage the terrain, but it would seriously impact humanity and cause massive extinctions within species dependent on the magnetic field for navigation. A gigantic solar flare striking Earth could potentially knock modern computer-controlled aircraft out of the sky and fry a good portion of the satellite system, which would not be "catastrophic" but would still be many hundreds, if not thousands, of times more destructive than Mount St. Helens, whether in terms of lives or financial cost.

As far as the asteroid is concerned, here is the impact calculator. It does not appear to require much of an impact for everything not over the horizon to be incinerated immediately and for earthquakes to be 9 or 10 on the richter scale for many thousands of miles. (In other words, such an asteroid could hit France and the shockwaves alone would destroy much of North America. The ash blotting out the sun for a few decades putting the planet in deep freeze would not kill that many, simply because not many would be left.)

Sure.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/04/killing-of-derek-hale-death-by-police.html
http://nynerd.com/sgt-derek-j-hale-usmc-murdered-by-delaware-police/
http://www.rense.com/general76/del.htm
http://www.google.com/

That last one is a gold mine.

Where the fuck do you think gasoline comes from?

Buzz, not all cars use gasoline. Nor does diesel engines run only on petro diesel. The inventor of the diesel engine Rudolph Diesel designed and ran his engine on vegetable oil. He used peanut and hemp oil among others. At the 1900 Paris Expo he used peanut oil. At his Iron Mountain Estate Henry Ford grew hemp he used to construct a vehicle as well as made fuel from it for the car in the 1930s.

I guess they did the impossible, or they didn't do it. However the fact is is Ford And Deisel Never Intended Cars To Use Gasoline".

The cause of the violence is people who have control over the U.S. government wanting to make a profit. I don't have time now to give a lot of links, but there are some below.

What started the violence between the U.S. government and Arabs was the U.S. government, not the Arabs. Having the U.S. taxpayer pay for violence to make a profit works only because most voters don't know the history of U.S. government action.

See, for example, Coups Arranged or Backed by the USA. Most or all of that corruption happened for profit, such as kickbacks of U.S. government foreign aid. When the governments of Israel or Pakistan buy weapons from U.S. manufacturers using money from "foreign aid", that is embezzlement of taxpayer money.

For one example of profiting from violence, read How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power or Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed: Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor.

Apparently Slashdot editors agree with at least some of this, because now and for the last 2 months or more, this has been on the main Slashdot page, on the right, under Book Reviews: "The Creature from Jekyll Island is a compelling look at the history of the Federal Reserve system and asks if it's a system that has run it's course. (Michael J. Ross's review)"

"The Creature from Jekyll Island" discusses how the U.S. monetary system is manipulated by rich and powerful people for their own profit. It says that wars are started for profit.

The Cooperative Research History Commons is very valuable for those wanting to do their own research.

The poorly edited but very interesting free movie Zeitgeist explains in three parts that 1) People who believe in myths are easily manipulated. 2) It is common that people are manipulated through fear. 3) The U.S. monetary system is controlled for the profit of a few individuals. (Note that the movie used respected sources for the first part which were later shown to be somewhat in error. The underlying issues are correct, however.)

When you talk about U.S. government action, don't say "we". Whoever does the secret decision making would kill you and your family if they thought you would cause trouble for them.

When people try to calculate the total number the U.S. government killed, they arrive at figures like perhaps 3 million killed directly since the end of the 2nd world war, and perhaps 8 to 11 million total if the people killed by the destabilization the U.S. government caused are also included, not including the people killed in Iraq. Partly the killing happened as a result of the U.S. government invading or bombing 25 countries.

"Are US soldiers shooting them, or are they getting killed by Muslims?"

Both.

Should the U.S. government be considered responsible only for the people it kills directly, or should it also be considered responsible for the violence that violence causes? I've read several books that have considered that fundamental issue.

When the U.S. government was violent in Cambodia during the Vietnam war, for example, how many people died as a result of U.S. government action? The answer is more than 2 million people, in Cambodia alone, because the U.S. government supported the rise of a very violent dictator.

The U.S. government supported Saddam Hussein, partly by selling him weapons. The weapons deliveries were still being made when the U.S. government declared its first war on Iraq.

When people try to calculate the total number the U.S. government killed, they arrive at figures like perhaps 3 million killed directly since the end of the 2nd world war, and perhaps 8 to 11 million total if the people killed by the destabilization the U.S. government caused are also included, not including the people killed in Iraq. Partly the killing happened as a result of the U.S. government invading or bombing 25 countries.

All or almost all of the U.S. government's killing appears to be motivated entirely by profit. Certainly Cambodians and Vietnamese could never have threatened anyone in the U.S.; they only made about $200 per year, and had no animosity toward anyone in the U.S., if they even knew the U.S. existed.

The problem is that most taxpayers, who pay for the violence, don't realize the underlying facts. Both attacks against the World Trade Center, for example, were motivated by the U.S. government's killing of Arabs and Muslims long before. But most U.S. taxpayers don't know about the earlier violence.

I am always against violence; nothing I say recommends or justifies violence; I think violence is caused by mental illness. The fact is, when one person or group acts out mental illness by being violent, there is a liklihood that some other person or group will feel encouraged to act out his or its mental illness.

The U.S. government has often used its "cooperation" with the governments of other countries to corrupt those governments. See, for example, Coups Arranged or Backed by the USA. Most or all of that corruption happened for profit, such as kickbacks of U.S. government foreign aid. When the governments of Israel or Pakistan buy weapons from U.S. manufacturers using money from "foreign aid", that is embezzlement of taxpayer money.

For one example of profiting from violence, read How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power or Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed: Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor.

Apparently Slashdot editors agree with at least some of this, because now and for the last 2 months or more, this has been on the main Slashdot page, on the right, under Book Reviews: " The Creature from Jekyll Island is a compelling look at the history of the Federal Reserve system and asks if it's a system that has run it's course. (Michael J. Ross's review)"

"The Creature from Jekyll Island" discusses how the U.S. monetary system is manipulated by rich and powerful people for their own profit. It says that wars are started for profit.

The Cooperative Research History Commons is very valuable for those wanting to do their own research.

The poorly edited but very interesting free movie

These people think he's wrong:
Iran is not Disconnected

That being said, there have been a number of Earthquakes undersea lately.

Here's an Accurate Description of what's going on. Linkey
I love how all the conspiracy theroists are here on /. Paranoia is good for systems administration, and bad for foreign policy. It's a nice idea and maybe the GCC is getting a clear cut message, however the internet is a U.S. invention, sadly pandora's box cannot be closed.