Domain: telegraph.co.uk
Stories and comments across the archive that link to telegraph.co.uk.
Comments · 3,787
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CoE apologises!
On a related note:
Church of England to apologise for rejecting evolution
As moderate religion steps away from fundamentalism, our scientists (if only through media slant) get closer to it!
Think of the children!! -
Some facts from the screenshot
I'm Greek, so let me state a few things: From the screenshot here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/graphics/2008/09/12/scicern212_big.gif it is more than clear that they are Greeks due to various references to their beliefs about certain "trends" and websites. The also state that they had no intention of causing any real trouble (Notice the **'s at the mails etc) and that they were only there to warn the admins as the site was going to get a lot more popular the following days. After an awful lot of babbling, in the end of the message, they also state that they _fixed a bug_ that could enable all the wannabes to deface the site. PS: It's 1AM here so I'm really sorry for not being able to read all the comments that have been made so far.
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Re:Use the force...
No, those are still valid for e-learning in higher education.
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Re:Online Storage scares me
I'm not sure how well a RAIH5 solution would work though but I'm sure there are plenty of people working on that though.
All a possibility since houses are now going for $1.
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Can we please talk about physics now?
Am I the only one who's sick of every news story and every discussion about the LHC deteriorating into giving the "end of the world" bullshit even more time of day that it doesn't deserve?
This is one of the most important and ambitious scientific experiments that has been attempted in a long long time, but it seems that instead of taking the opportunity to get the general public inspired about science and discovery, the mainstream media has used it to spread unfounded doomsday rumours and anti-science propaganda. The fact that it's dominating even Slashdot discussions (albeit mostly in a joking way) is pretty tragic IMHO.
Prof Brian Cox said it best - "anyone who believes the LHC will destroy the world is a twat".
I've taken a huge interest in all this lately and have been spending hours on Wikipedia reading about bosons and leptons and so on.. it would be great to get some quality posts in this thread from some real hardcore particle physicists (come on, I know you're out there...)
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Re:Been Going on for a While
in case ISPs are worried about little things like the Data Protection Act.
Ah yes, the Data Protection Act.
That would be the law which is misinterpreted to mean that a mother can't complain about a present purchased for her 7 year old until said 7 year old has agreed that she can discuss it?
(Incidentally, the law is perfectly clear and was obviously not relevant in this situation - it's just been used as an excuse to be stupid by countless organisations)
And this would also be the law which despite numerous high-profile data loss cases has resulted in only one reasonably high-profile fine (which the organisation concerned publicly announced would come out of customer's pockets because they "didn't think it fair" to take it from the Chairman's bonus).
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The EU has investigated the possibility of this.
See here (Torygraph via Guido, with relevant thanks). Essentially the issue is that there aren't many pro-EU establishment blogs (because even an ardent Europhile like myself finds it impossible to justify things like the CAP or the fact that the Eurocracy hasn't had its accounts signed off, via the Adam Smith Institute).
The European Union has already taken corrupt and borderline illegal action to suppress an anti-fraud journalist, Hans-Martin Tillack, working for Der Stern, because he had the audacity to protect whistle blowers on the Eurostat scandal.
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Re:not just their pollutants
First off, the US is the greatest polluter in the world
And lastly, they are not.
By far they are not.
Support your points, troll.
"By far"? We were only overtaken in Co2 emissions this year. Before that, we were "by far" the leader.
In other areas (there's more to pollution than Co2), we are still the leader.
Be my guest and look it up.
Hell, why not listen to George Bush? He seems pretty proud of us being the world's biggest polluter: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/2277298/President-George-Bush-'Goodbye-from-the-world's-biggest-polluter'.html
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Re:And this won't be missused...
I wonder how long it'll be before we get the formation of the first Anti-Sex League?
They're already there, just not quite restrictive enough yet to affect you. Try being active in any "alternative-sexuality". It doesn't matter whether they're legal or not the public outcry is the same (strictly speaking, much of BDSM is illegal given precedent that you can't consent to harm, read up on the Spanner Case).
Be you "fag" (homosexual, legal now but people are still on the register as they have to appeal against outstanding convictions), "freak" (BDSM), "slut" (polyamorous), other or even take a piss outdoors on the way home from the pub, they want you on their list. We're the same as paedophiles in the public's eye these days.
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Re:Any numbers to compare?
Guns are not really an issues there was never much of a gun ownership culture in the UK anyway.
Not true at all. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/01/23/do2302.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/01/23/ixop.html
In a material sense, Britain today has much less of a "gun culture" than at any time in its recent history. A century ago, the possession and carrying of firearms was perfectly normal here. Firearms were sold without licence in gunshops and ironmongers in virtually every town in the country, and grand department stores such as Selfridge's even offered customers an in-house range. The market was not just for sporting guns: there was a thriving domestic industry producing pocket pistols and revolvers, and an extensive import trade in the cheap handguns that today would be called "Saturday Night Specials".
The 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is copied from the English Bill of Rights 1689, as are many of the other "American" rights. Where do you think the various US states got their Castle Doctrine? Seen many castles in the US recently? -
More Information about This Brutal MurderAccording to a report just issued by "The Washington Post" (TWP), the Russian police under direct orders from the Kremlin arrested Magomed Yevloyev, the owner of an anti-Kremlin Web site (Ingushetiya.ru), and then shot him in the head during his ride in the police car. The police then dumped his corpse onto the road near a hospital. According to the TWP, "Ingushetiya.ru has been one of the few sources of independent information about [a low-grade Islamist insurgency in the province of Ingushetia]".
For additional information about this heinous crime, read the report just issued by the "Daily Telegraph" (DT). According to the DT, "Mr Yevloyev is the most prominent anti-Kremlin journalist to be killed since Anna Politkovskaya was shot dead in the lift of her apartment block in October 2006.
... Russia is considered to be one of the world's most dangerous countries for journalists."The "Wall Street Journal" provides more information about this and other suspicious deaths of well-known journalists. According to the WSJ, "Mr. Yevloyev was the latest in a series of Russian journalists to have died in suspicious circumstances. The death of Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot in October 2006 at her Moscow apartment, highlighted the dangers faced by Russia's independent press. Ms. Politkovskaya was a lead reporter at Novaya Gazeta, a Moscow-based newspaper that specializes in muckraking and probes of government corruption. She was the third journalist at the paper to die under mysterious circumstances. Paul Klebnikov, editor of the Russian edition of Forbes magazine, was shot on a Moscow street in July 2004."
After I read these news articles, I could think of only 4 words: God damn the Kremlin!
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Re:Again please...
I agree the reason was absurd and find it depressing that people actually belive it. I have no reason to doubt the safety of US beef.
"Neither source is too concerned about accuracy in reporting."
It's kind of obviuos it's a SK 'wedge issue' since no other nation seems to be demonstrating in the streets about it. I was interested to see who was driving the wedge and why. It's always enlightening to get a local POV, thanks. :)
BTW: We are having a bit of trouble growing grass lately. -
Re:The numbers were in his favour...
Hammond had a crash in a jet-car...injured, sure... lived, walks, basically fine...
He did develop a taste for celery though so it's not all a bed of roses
;)some guy who drives to and from work, maybe the odd venture out on the weekends... is far more likely to fuck-up, and when the shit hits the fan they panic, unlike a professional driver who can stay relatively aware of whats happening, and prepair...etc...
I think there's something to say for people pointing and laughing at danger and stealing its lunch money. Clarkson, Hammond and May (well maybe less so for Captain Slow) have cavalier attitudes (which appeals to my sense of 'ah, screw it') and being of a less panicky, laugh in the face of danger disposition may help cope when things go wrong (to a degree) because you may prevent yourself making it worse.
To quote Red Dwarf:
KRYTEN: Good god! Emergency, emergency! Adopt crash procedure!
RIMMER: (Runs back to rear compartment.) Where's the card? Who's got the
card?!
LISTER: What card?
RIMMER: The plastic card, the plastic card with the cartoons of the crash
procedure on it!
LISTER: Don't panic, man!
RIMMER: It should be in the netting behind the seats. Haven't we got to
sit behind a woman clutching a baby? What's the drill?!
LISTER: Look, I know what is it!
RIMMER: What?
LISTER: Sit down, tuck your head between your legs and brace yourself.
RIMMER: (Bracing) Now what?
LISTER: Then you open the in-flight magazine and start reading. Thing
is*, the articles act as a sedative. I mean, look at this: "Contents
List: Salt, an Epicure's Delight; Classic Wines of Estonia; Flemish
Weaving the Traditional Way." (To the CAT, whose head is lolling) Don't
fight it, man, let it take you.
RIMMER: How can you be so mind-bogglingly flippant? Don't you know
what's going to happen? We're going to crash!
LISTER: You've got to stay calm! It's a well-known fact, the more
relaxed you are, the less likely you are to be injured.
KRYTEN: Good luck, everybody, here it comes!Wishful thinking maybe, but as far as wishful thinking goes, I like it.
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Re:heh
What can I say? Is our children learning grammar? If not, it's probably thanks to Laxative enforcement policies.
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Re:paid $140 for a computer on eBay
According to many sites, he actually paid 35GBP! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2622495/A-million-bank-customers-details-sold-on-eBay-for-35.html
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In other news
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Re:Debunk?
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Re:Crows, for one
Don't give us all so much credit. There are a lot of things hard-wired into an animal's brain that comes from millions of years of evolution, and other things that come from the organism's experiences.
For instance, a heterosexual man can't help but look at a pretty girl, which annoys the hell out of their wives. When I stopped smoking, a year later when I didn't have any craving for tobacco whatever and had no desire to light a cigarette, nevertheless when I walked down the steps at work my hand automatically grabbed the shirt pocket that had held cigarettes all those years.
We are only another species of organism. There's nothing special about us; at least, no more than any other species. We have big brains, so what? We almost became extinct 70,000 years ago despite our big brains.
a bit reductionist, don't you think? seriously, if you don't recognize the difference, drop the clothes, hump anything that moves, and throw your shit at anybody threatening your "marked" areas.
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Re:Irony...
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Re:Insurance?
Not even trying to be funny but honestly, in no other country than USA would this be among the first things people think.
Have you been to the UK lately?
14 elderly card players (who know each other and have played cards together for 10 years) are asked to pay 250 pounds annually for insurance.
Yes, elderly card players. You know how violent that can get.
It's not a question of attitude to life, it's a question of the nanny state (and judges and lawyers) taking away all sense of personal responsibility.
However, if YOU were sued with of these ridiculous lawsuits, and lost a huge pile of money, you would probably have the same attitude.
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IT IS the opposite
On a short-term basis, it might be true, but on the evolutionary scale, polygamy seems to have the opposite effect. at least this article suggests so: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/10/17/scisex117.xml
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Re:Re-education is right
That and the incident where their poster golden boy broke down from too much training and his coach said the extreme pressure from the regime was to blame convinces me there is a god up there and he was looking after me for I was not born in China.
If your having not been born in China convinces you there is a god up there, what kind of god is he? He is the sort who lets 1,000,000,000 Chinese born in China and not looking out for them. Yupe, a reeeelly special god.
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Re-education is right
A couple of elderly women (70+) are being reducated for wanting to protest their eviction and their sin was timing their application during the Olympics. That and the incident where their poster golden boy broke down from too much training and his coach said the extreme pressure from the regime was to blame convinces me there is a god up there and he was looking after me for I was not born in China.
Yes, I am being melodramatic and I think it's apt.
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Re:Re-education
This is actually incredibly likely
See http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/peter_foster/blog/2008/08/20/the_ioc_plays_appeaser_in_beijing for recent prior art.
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Re:Crows, for one
Don't give us all so much credit. There are a lot of things hard-wired into an animal's brain that comes from millions of years of evolution, and other things that come from the organism's experiences.
For instance, a heterosexual man can't help but look at a pretty girl, which annoys the hell out of their wives. When I stopped smoking, a year later when I didn't have any craving for tobacco whatever and had no desire to light a cigarette, nevertheless when I walked down the steps at work my hand automatically grabbed the shirt pocket that had held cigarettes all those years.
We are only another species of organism. There's nothing special about us; at least, no more than any other species. We have big brains, so what? We almost became extinct 70,000 years ago despite our big brains.
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Re:Countdown
No, the IOC is going to keep quiet about this one. Given the recent revelations about CGI fireworks, fake sports fans, dubious pianos, and the substituted singer, they're desperately hoping we won't find out that this is the ACTUAL stadium...
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Re:Sexism
'How do you sex a bike?'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1569272/Man-who-had-sex-with-bicycle-sentenced.html
Sheriff Colin Miller added: "In almost four decades in the law I thought I had come across every perversion known to mankind, but this is a new one on me. I have never heard of a 'cycle-sexualist'. "
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Re:After we free Tibet can we please.........
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Re:who cares?
The BBC made its own DIRAC codec so that it could keep its standard-def infrastructure but handle high-def camera feeds instead of spending even larger amounts of money tearing out and replacing its infrastructure.
There was another plan, though it appears to have been largely forgotten.
The BBC was at one point seriously considering making large amounts of their archive available over the web:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4441205.stm
At the time this was mooted, most of the available codecs required licensing for the server-side component which handled streaming the media. Which is all well and good.
However, the licensing was charged according to the amount of media (either being made available or downloaded; I forget which). Hence the need for a free codec which could be easily streamed.
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Re:And they say ...
We knew that this was coming when DHS started training the firemen to spot terrorists.
"The Homeland Security Department has been secretly testing a pilot scheme in New York in which firefighters are trained to identify suspicious material or behaviour. If successful, the programme will be extended to other large cities." I'm only surprised it's taken this long for the abuse to become public. -
Re:Bad company
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Re:Only a small part looked simulated
Wow. The whole thing is a scary demonstration of mind control on a massive scale. I wouldn't at all be surprised if some of the middle blocks (where it would have been easier to hide pistons) were generated by pistons. Apparently the girl who sang the anthem was lipsynching because the original girl wasn't pretty enough: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2545387/Beijing-Olympics-Faking-scandal-over-girl-who-sang-in-opening-ceremony.html
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Dupe research.
I submitted a Slashdot story several months ago on this topic (sans the kids aspect). Reference this article for a basic overview.
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Re:Only a small part looked simulated
The Telegraph article confirms that it's the footprints.
I'm not sure this is so great an evil. Given the choice of CGI or knocking choppers out of the sky over central Beijing, I know which I'd prefer the Chinese went with. -
Bad Link
The link to the telegraph article is incorrect. Here's the real link
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And now they faked the fireworks too
According to this article: Beijing Olympic 2008 opening ceremony giant firework footprints 'faked' the coverage was not only edited, censored, audio altered but the fireworks in what you saw may have been a computer generated graphic.
This reality TV is really cool stuff! -
Faked footage
The giant firework footprints were faked too, already at the source. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2534499/Beijing-Olympic-2008-opening-ceremony-giant-firework-footprints-faked.html
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Re:U.S does it even better
I can think of a certain Boeing 767 sold to China to serve as the presidential jet, complete with dozens of bugs aboard.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1382116/China-finds-spy-bugs-in-Jiang's-Boeing-jet.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E6DD113BF936A25757C0A9659C8B63
So, this announcement has been brought to you by the words 'pot', 'kettle' and 'black'. -
Re:When will people learn?!?!?!
Many scientists believe that storms are caused by global warming, but these were came during the so-called Little Ice Age that affected Europe from about 1600 to 1850.
The records also suggest that Europe saw a spell of rapid warming, similar to that experienced today, during the 1730s that must have been caused naturally
The current warming cycle topped out in 1998 btw, we've been cooling since.
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Re:Rather unjustifiable reactions?
Your responses suggest this is yet another case of the Land Of The Fee making some people more equal than others.
When issuing a complaint to a firm in the UK, giving them a price list and then billing them for each letter you send (time to write, cost of postage) is well-known technique. If it comes to taking the firm to (usually) small claims court, these amounts may then be awarded as part of your win. And, contrary to all the "oh but they'll never pay" negativity, once you've won your case, if they don't cough up, the court gives permission to send bailiffs round and adds the cost of debt collection and wasting the court's time to the amount they owe. What often happens, if you're claiming a small amount and it's a big firm, is that they don't even turn up and you win by default - if the big guys refuse to swallow their pride and pay up immediately, it's instant tabloid press fodder.
So anyway, it's all part of increasing the risk for the firm if they fight you. It increases the likelihood that they acquiesce, content with the 95% who bend over and take it. Surely Canada, more recently severed from the motherland, gives its subjects similar recourse?
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Re:Scandal
I think it is a scandal that China ever came to host the Olympics.
I hate Government oppression as anyone but I've got to call you out here. I think the Olympic Committee was hoping that the Chinese government would clean up it's act for it's people as a direct result of planning The Games.
In some respects this is true, there has been great infrastructure and environmental improvements in China recently. In terms of infrastructure, you might like to consult this interesting article, PART 1, PART 2 comparing the difference between credit crunch enlaboured American cities and shining new developments in China.
In terms of environmetal issues, Greenpeace have applauded many of the Chinese Governemnt's efforts. Efforts include a focus on reducing emmisions and river pollution, switching to renewable energy sources such as hydro and geo-thermal, expanding public transportation and air quality improvements. In America, the government is actively trying to prevent any improvements relating to global warming.
In terms of censorship, also recall that employees at the American Environment Protection Authority have been prevented from talking to journalists. How's that for "extreme censorship"? Also, don't forget about warrentless wire tapping and the subsequent bill to protect the government and telcos from any repercussions.Chinese doping is as organized as in the former East Germany
Remember that testing for doping is overseen by the Olympic Committee, not the Chinese government. You should also be aware that America is involved with doping too and stripped of medals.
Admittedly, the improvements aren't as good as they could have been, but if you ask the average Chinese on the street, I'm sure he's very satisfied with the changes and his governments ability to effect them. I'm not trying to imply that America is worse than China or even close, just that it has it's problems too and they are pretty much the same ones. It's time to get off your high horse and realise that he who is without guilt should cast the first stone. Not you. -
Re:Scandal
I think it is a scandal that China ever came to host the Olympics.
I hate Government oppression as anyone but I've got to call you out here. I think the Olympic Committee was hoping that the Chinese government would clean up it's act for it's people as a direct result of planning The Games.
In some respects this is true, there has been great infrastructure and environmental improvements in China recently. In terms of infrastructure, you might like to consult this interesting article, PART 1, PART 2 comparing the difference between credit crunch enlaboured American cities and shining new developments in China.
In terms of environmetal issues, Greenpeace have applauded many of the Chinese Governemnt's efforts. Efforts include a focus on reducing emmisions and river pollution, switching to renewable energy sources such as hydro and geo-thermal, expanding public transportation and air quality improvements. In America, the government is actively trying to prevent any improvements relating to global warming.
In terms of censorship, also recall that employees at the American Environment Protection Authority have been prevented from talking to journalists. How's that for "extreme censorship"? Also, don't forget about warrentless wire tapping and the subsequent bill to protect the government and telcos from any repercussions.Chinese doping is as organized as in the former East Germany
Remember that testing for doping is overseen by the Olympic Committee, not the Chinese government. You should also be aware that America is involved with doping too and stripped of medals.
Admittedly, the improvements aren't as good as they could have been, but if you ask the average Chinese on the street, I'm sure he's very satisfied with the changes and his governments ability to effect them. I'm not trying to imply that America is worse than China or even close, just that it has it's problems too and they are pretty much the same ones. It's time to get off your high horse and realise that he who is without guilt should cast the first stone. Not you. -
Excellent video news footage at...
There's video news footage showing WK2, and the Virgin Galactic promo video (pretty good) at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2466198/Sir-Richard-Branson-unveils-Virgin's-spaceship.html. Sat down and watched it (4 mins), and thought I wouldn't mind a go too. Note: includes interesting audio commentary. The actual article also includes some interesting additional information.
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Re:KA9Q
I remember downloading this BEFORE 1989 and the birth of the World Wide Web by
I probably still have the archive file in my software collection somewhere.
This was back in the heyday of 'shareware'.
Nowadays, with the Internet, it's ALL 'freeware' -- from pricey retail apps by the likes of Microsoft and Adobe down to 'Joe Blow's Software App' created by software development tools put out by said software giants Microsoft and Adobe.
Who gives a fvck, 'information wants to be free' ($0.00), right?
:PP.S. Why isn't
on the
100 greatest living geniuses' list (now dead)?
Phil took Thom Henderson's ARC archiver and made it FASTER and got into LOTS OF TROUBLE for doing so. Then he created PK-ZIP, made MILLIONS of dollars, and made online storage of MASSIVE amounts of information POSSIBLE. Years ago, I bought the Windows version of PK-ZIP to 'pay my respects' to the man as a fellow software programmer, after I found out 'demon alcohol' took his life.
Bill Gates buys and resells Tim Patterson's QDOS as MS-DOS (/Windows) and makes BILLIONS of dollars and the above mentioned genius list while the TRUE geniuses like Patterson and Katz who were insturmental in making the world of computing what it is today are little more than entries in Wikipedia.
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The UK is a security joke
It's no surprise that this has happened to a high ranking UK official. The state of security in the United Kingdom is absolutely pathetic nowadays, and the country deserves to be laughed at. Before we go on, yes, I'm British.
Barely a week seems to go by without a story of confidential government (or secret service) files being left on a train, on a laptop on a train, or what not. Think I'm joking? Google for "uk lost files train" to see a plethora of stories.
For more, try a search for UK lost data. This includes November 2007's leak of 25 million people's bank details, national insurance numbers (like an SSN in the US), name, birthday and address. How about December 2007's story of the DVA losing the details of 6000 drivers?
The British government is a fucking shambles when it comes to anything relating to IT (what about the £20bn wasted on an NHS computer system that barely works - with a reported 110 "major incidents" in 2006) or the secure management of data.
In the UK, any data stored by the government (which includes most of your personal information) is extremely unsafe and should be assumed to be public knowledge.
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Re:xenophobia
That's true -- at least China doesn't have 5 million security cameras.
They're working on it. And they're openly trying to go a heck of a lot further than anyone in the West.
Which is the free country again?
Given just the two choices, I think I'll go for the democratic surveillance society with strongly protected freedoms, rather than the one-party surveillance society where citizens don't even have basic rights like freedom of speech, assembly, and religion.
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Re:"Fixing" privacyThe EU has no direct effect on your life living in the UK? How about laws like below that force higher food prices just to satisfy some Euro-nuts fetish of measuring things and declaring perfect food as inedible. Food shortage, what food shortage?!
A wholesaler has been banned from selling a consignment of kiwi fruits because EU laws deemed them too small.
Tim Down, a market trader for 25 years, said he was not permitted even to give away the 5,000 Chilean fruits, each of which is about the size of a small hen's egg and weighs about 60g.
Mr Down said his family run firm would lose several hundred pounds in sales because of the ban.[/p]
"It is bureaucratic nonsense, they are perfectly fit to eat," Mr Down said at his stall at the Wholesale Fruit Centre in Bristol.
Inspectors from the Rural Payments Agency, an executive agency of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), made a random check on his stall, and found a number of his kiwis weighed 58g, four grams below the required minimum of 62g.
Mr Down said that 4g in weight was the equivalent of about one millimeter in diameter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2199214/EU-rules-ban-sale-of-'too-small'-kiwis.html
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In related news
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Re:Farm subsidies
What free trade also does for third world farmers is encourage them to grow for export rather than for the local markets. There are countries with plenty of farms, but starving populations, because the farmers are growing fancy stuff for us rather than staples for their neighbors.
Show me a country that has solid private property rights and starving people. For example, the government owns all land n Ethiopia, and land cannot be bought and sold. Or Zimbabwe, which just split up all the major productive farms in the country and gave them to soldiers.
The path to agricultural development is that farms get large and then they can achieve economies of scale, including increasing productivity because they get big enough to be able to purchase capital items like tractors and combines. Even the non-owner farm workers earn more because they are more productive.
For example, in Brazil, only 21% of farms are under 2 Ha, meanwhile in Ethiopia it is 87%.
Meanwhile, while Brazil's first-quarter agriculture exports reach $27.2 billion which is more than the entire GDP of Ethiopia at official exchange rates, meanwhile Ethiopians brace for new famine
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Re:AGREED
then we got a bunch of parents out there that are liable to be arrested and taken to jail for taking shots of their little kids bathing or running around nekkid...
You haven't visited Britain lately...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2008/06/25/noindex/nbaby.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2008/06/25/noindex/nchild.xml