Slashdot Mirror

I hear that a portion of that guy's remains will be aboard the thing which crashes into the moon. Talk about an expensive burial. ;)

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

"Protecting inexperienced people from getting in over their heads" is a crock.

I had $7,000 in my E-Trade account, which i've had, and have actively traded with for 6 months. Hell, i've even participated on trading IPO stocks..My entire portfolio is made up of tech-sector stocks. There was nothing I filled out in the elibility profile that could be construed as a mark against me, and I _still_ got rejected.

Perhaps the community should draft a letter inviting Red Hat and E-Trade to kiss our collective asses..Participation in the ass-kissing would be subject to an eligibility profile, of course.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Someone invites you to a party as a guest of honor.

You get dressed up.

You bring a date.

You look forward to it all week.

You tell your friends and your family about your good fortune.

The night of the party arrives, and you step out of your limo onto a beautiful red carpet.

You get to the door, and the doorman asks, "Have you ever been to one of our parties before?"

A voice in your head tells you to lie in order to get in, but you say "No" because you're an honest and good person who refuses to lie.

The doorman replies, "No? Hah, oh thats too bad! We feel so sorry for you..Really. Now get the hell off our doorstep, get back in your limo and go home, hippy."




I'm about this close to emailing Red Hat and inviting them to kiss my ass. However, they'de be ineligible to participate in kissing my ass since they've never kissed it before, or lack sufficient experience in kissing asses, or they're related to someone who has kissed my ass in the past.

If telling the truth makes me ineligible to participate, fine with me. E-Trade, and whoever else wants me to lie in order to participate in something I helped build in the first place can form a line to the left behind Red Hat and pucker up. Its reeeeeally, really hard for me to believe that Red Hat didn't know this was going to happen ahead of time. I'll hold off on emailing Red Hat an invitiation to kiss my ass until I know more about this royal screw job.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Why stop there, Cisco? Why not build and sell devices who's sole purpose is to ping-flood and mail bomb your competitors?

Somebody should dump 5,000 barrels of petroleum tar into Cisco's parking lot and see how much they enjoy being "slowed down" by someone else.

This is what happens when the suits, marketing bozos and other parasites get involved in things they really have no business in. I dont think I need to convince anybody that giving marketing people a controlling hand in how a network performs (and ignoring the engineers in the process) is a bad idea..If marketing people were allowed to design cars, we'd all be driving coal-powered tricycles that only ran on tuesdays.

When people who don't belong in a particular situation become involved in a way which changes the nature of how it functions, the system begins to decay. It becomes corrupt, and ends up being twisted into something that it was never intended to be. Don't believe me? Have a look at the judicial system..the music industry.. Or hell, just look at MS-DOS. :) Now you can add the internet to the body count, if Cisco or companies with the same intentions have their way. Questions about wether or not it would even be _legal_ for Cisco to do such a thing aside, the fact that they're even considering it speaks volumes about the company, and their ethics...or lack thereof.

Oh well. Theres always Juniper Networks. :)

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Ahh, good.. I was waiting for this. I had the good luck of being able to sit in on an SGI non-disclosure agreement demo back in December of last year when this was being discussed.. Glad to see they finally came through on what they were promising. :)

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

I didn't write Tuxowulf -- I only posted the URL for it, after seeing it mentioned on EFNet #e. Someone else deserves the credit for this gem. :)

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Well, at least AOL has a cluepon when it comes to being able to read Microsoft's intentions nowadays. The whole spat over messaging is a prime example of Microsoft using the 3 E's to get ahead, and AOL knows it, thankfully.

Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Interesting how propaganda has toned down, at least temporarily, their references to JFK in light of what's happened to his son, but the Dealey Plaza Museum (live webcam from the book depository) is still going strong, and if anything, that's much creepier than what goes on at propaganda.

sarcasm(on);

Yeah, I heard theyre working on some strange new bizzare technology that will actually let you transmit an unlimited number of data streams in parallel over thin air.


Theyre calling it something weird like "radio" I think.

sarcasm(off);


Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Minor typo in the Quickie. It should be http://propaganda.themes.org/.

This drink sounds like pisswater compared to E-Maxx.. The ultimate beverage for programmers. :)

No..I dont work for them. :) I've had a couple cans of it..they usually sell the stuff around college campuses. One can of E-Maxx will keep you wide-open awake for 10-15 hours (not to mention you feel like you could bench-press a truck)..... but not without consequences -- For every hour of sleep you manage to avoid, you can expect to two hours to a rock-bottom depression to follow it. E-Maxx burns the shit out of your brain top to bottom. Sometimes this sort of "penalty" is worth it..but not often. I would only consider drinking E-Maxx again if it were a total last resort. Anyone got a URL for this drink?


Bowie
PROPAGANDA

The Linux hardware vendors are some of the best corporate citizens I've seen in any industry. They wholeheartedly support the Linux community, because they realise that without it they wouldn't exist in the first place. I like the fact that Penguin Computing is providing servers for sites such as Linux Online, 32 Bits Online, and LinuxToday. Then you've got VA Linux Systems taking the time to ensure Linux.com doesn't get run over by corporate interests, but instead makes it a community interest site. Not to mention hosting Debian, GNU, and Themes.org. You've got to hand it to the Linux Store for pushing the envelope for low-cost systems.

The Linux hardware vendors have shown a dedication to the community and customers that is rarely seen in this generally cruel marketplace. I sincerely hope they keep it up.

Something about this doesn't sit well with me..Like many of you, I wasn't exactly bouncing off the walls with glee when I found out Red Hat is going public, either.

I mean, lets get our facts straight here.. Bob Young goes on record not too long ago saying "We will NEVER go public". Now they have. He's either playing good poker, or he's a liar. Whichever one you pick depends upon your view of Red Hat.

Soon, Red Hat will no longer be a privately-held company. In other words, they will soon have to answer to stockholders and a board of directors, instead of answering the community..You can either consider the act of going public as being the next natural step in the company's growth, or, you can view it was Red Hat turning its back on the Linux community in pursuit of the almighty dollar, which is the fundemental opposite of what the GPL is all about to begin with. Whichever one you pick depends on your view of Red Hat.

Speaking as someone who actually does have his work included in Red Hat 6.0's distribution (I have about 9MB worth of seamless desktop wallpaper in there) i'm on the fence when it comes to the issue. I can't really say that I think that Red Hat going public is a wholly good idea, or a wholly bad idea. One thing's for sure, tho. If the stockholders, or board of directors decide they want to take a collective piss on the GPL by removing the ability of people to download/distribute their product freely, then I would request that my work be removed from their distribution alltogether. However, For the time being, i'd be more inclined to give Red Hat the benefit of the doubt. They haven't done much to deserve the rap they've been given in recent months, imho. I have some faith in Red Hat to do what's right, so, i'll take a wait and see approach.

We should be able to tell fairly soon wether or not Red Hat remembers what got them there the first place. It wasn't money, it was people.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Icons are a subsection of one of the many sections at themes.org. Currently http://themes.org/resources/ holds the collection of Icons available at themes.org. This section is being redone and will be presented in a very well-done manner in the near future.

the link for the transparent terminals (aterms) is above a couple posts.

the background (and a host of other dazzling ones) is from propaganda.themes.org.

most of the wharf applets are stock or i got them from the sites linked from the "applications" (or something) section of the afterstep home page.

feel free to email me if you have other questions!

Tomi

I've found Window Maker to be very well maintained in Debian. (I use the not-quite-released version 2.2, potato.) The core wmaker package works excellently, as does the add-on wmaker-gnome package (to make wmaker more respectful of panel and gmc). I would assume that the wmaker-kde package works just as well. Various dock-apps and wmakerconf are all available as packages, and all kept up to the minute. With apt (debian's advanced front-end to the packaging system), you can easily keep yourself current, as well. With menu, debian's unified root-menu system, packages register (and unregister, if you remove them) entries in the Debian section of the wmaker application menu. Several themes are included, but I believe these are just the ones that are distributed by windowmaker.org in the wmaker-data tarball. For a real theme selection, get wm.themes.org and wmakerconf talking together.

Two of the top 5 enlightenment themes (measured by # of downloads) are Mac OS GUI look-alikes. Take a look: http://e.themes.org/

There a whole bunch of icons at http://themes.org/resources/icons/. Maybe one of the artists would be willing to let you use one they created.

Hmmm, looks like themes.org got themselves a banner ad with the swirl before debian's own website was changed :)

Hmm.. this is getting a little out of hand..

First, its "They (Red Hat) don't believe users really count -- corporates and 'partners' count and what they percieve as the 'business world that wants an exact windows clone' counts" , and now (today) its "I think the rest of Red Hat have their heads screwed on right... just one does not."

Carsten, pick one and stick with it..Honestly. Rapidly changing your tune like this sounds just as bad in the press as it does in music.

I remember my first job..I got paid $5.25/hr to stack printouts on a reception desk at a community college. The work conditions sucked, and later on the management sucked too. Infact, there was alot of bad blood running between me and the guy who was appointed to be my supervisor. One evening, I saw him and a female coworker 20 years younger than him wander into a darkened classroom where they proceeded to "clear the desks" for a good half hour or so. A week later, she got a promotion, after only having worked there for about 8 weeks..Promoted past 5 or 6 other people (myself included) who had been there upwards of 2 years or more.

Certainly, this was something I could have easilly gotten him fired over..But, doing so wouldn't have changed anything. Complaining would'nt have changed the fact that this guy was an asshole, and complaining to HIS supervisor (or telling my coworkers) would accomplish nothing as well. So, I put in my two weeks notice, got another job across campus, and used this loser as a job reference to get where I wanted to go.

The world is filled with people like that..People in management who really shouldnt be there. You will ALWAYS have these sorts of disputes within any company. You either learn to comprimise, bow down and take it, or leave. The choice is up to you.

I dont blame Carsten for leaving Red Hat. However, it was a tremendous mistake for him to take his grievances into a public forum in the manner that he chose. Keep in mind Red Hat runs Slashdot headlines front and center on its homepage.."Rasterman Leaves Red Hat" is not the kind of thing that I would want splashed across my company's webpage. It makes Carsten look bad, AND Red Hat look bad.

And in doing so, it makes Linux as a whole look bad as well.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

... at least as far as building "online community." I've been thinking about this for a bit, and I think this is simply a property of the interface. Follow a healthy USENET group or mail list on a topic you care about for a while, and notice the percentage of posts that actually engage what another person has written. It's so high that USENET developed the (sometimes software-enforced) protocol that you ought to provide at least as much original as quoted text. Now, look at the comment threads on slashdot. See the difference? And /. has a higher percentage of interaction than other sites such as freshmeat or themes.org.

Now, "weblogs" (awful name) are superior to USENET groups and mail lists in (1) filtering noise and highlighting useful information, and (2) providing archiving and search capabilities. But that's not the same as building "community", unless you simply mean a group of people with similar interests and viewpoints. But it doesn't get people interacting at the person-to-person levels that old-fashioned NNTP and SMTP (or the even more old-fashioned face-to-face) do.

I also find that newsgroups and mail lists can provide an opportunity for more thoughtful discussion. I've many times sat on a USENET or mail message for a day or two before responding, in order to give some thought or do some research before responding. With slashdot? Why bother responding to a toping that's no longer on the splash page?

As for the closed vs. open debate -- both are good in there own way. There are times that I want to mix it up in the rough-and-tumble marketplace of ideas. There are times I want to quietly discuss issues with folks who are moderately like-minded. It is wonderful that both kinds of fora (open to the world and unmoderated, limited subscription and moderated) can exist.

Posted by essell:

i believe there's a windowmaker theme available from themes.org with the iMac girl too :)

Then eventually they can move onto a better window manager/Desktop Enviroment.

Why badmouthing KDE? There are lots of other WM that are KDE compliant (Window Maker, Afterstep, Blackbox,...). And even KWM with themes is *really* neat.
It's fair to say there is no better Desktop Environment than KDE, from the quality point of view.
So there is no reason people should have a bad conscience about using it.

Gnome is still a very good choice for the more individualistic users.

Posted by DaJoker:

I just wanted to point out several things, that really don't make this site unique in itself, and really make me question this sites intentions in general.

1. This site has the same principle ideas as http://linuxnewbies.org. Now this isn't in itself bad. Keep reading..
2. One of the main creators of http://linuxnewbies.org is Joker, and this post came from Jester. Simple coincidence, right? Keep reading..
3. This same Joker runs a website that is entitled Kung-Fu Linux, and has appeared on the Joe Linux User site at http://themes.org. By going to http://www.linuxnewbie.org we see that you should mail sensei@linuxnewbie.org.

Ok, so you really don't see the coincidence do you? I think it's a sad ripoff, and personally I wouldn't give this site a look, nor contribute to help. This was a sad, shameless attempt of creating a slashdot effect site overnight, and has absolutely no content to back up it's claims as a newbie friendly site. I thumb my nose at Jester and ask him to next time, please use your own ideas and creativity.

So if you want real newbie content, and no shameless plugs on an actual slashdot story, no advertising banners, and the help of people that have been using linux for many years, surf on over to http://linuxnewbies.org and save yourself the time of going to a site that doesn't live up to it's claims.

As Millenium is obviously a GNOME user who has used KDE only occasionally, I will try to reply to his points.
For some more comprehensive - and maybe objective - comparisons, you mau consider looking at Ars Technica about KDE, Mininco about GNOME (sorry, has vanished), and Predawnia for a comparison.
Another GNOME article is on Linuxworld.
Interestingly, only the entirely positive articles about GNOME are posted on Slashdot.

Now for the points mentioned above:
Stability
I've never had either Gnome or KDE crash my machine.
So So you're either very lucky or very lazy. Look at the newsgroups, mailing lists and reviews and you'll see people are *very* annoyed about GNOME's instability. Look at the Predawnia article for more.

functionality
In terms of functionality KDE excels in areas Gnome does not, but Gnome too is way ahead of KDE in some areas. I'd call it a flat-out draw in that area.
Sorry, but that's an illusion. KDE offers undoubtedly more functionality, if you look at productivity features.
You may argue that for technology (CORBA) and eyecandy (widget themes), but there you should compare GNOME -at least until it is really stable- to the most recent KDE, and KOffice technology, which is far ahead of GNOME (CORBA object model technology working for many months, while Baboon isn't even finished).

Looks
In terms of looks I doubt anyone can argue against the assertion that Gnome wins, so I won't go into that one here.
You are using geeks' standards here: GNOME looks screamingly flashy (what I'd call kitsch; maybe cool for you). KDE looks cleaner and more elegant. All that is a matter of taste. Look at kde.t.o for WM themes or these brand new icons!

Speed and Resources
Now, we come to speed. [...] KWM is a BIG problem for KDE; it makes E look stunningly fast and stable.[...]
Now there's the matter of resources. I'm afraid Gnome wins it here. It appears to use far less in the way of resources than KDE does.
This was probably true for KDE 1.0, it's certainly wrong for KDE 1.1. This is *much* faster and leaner than KDE 1.0.
As for resources: Surely you're joking Mr Mil! GNOME needs 3 times as much diskspace than KDE (for about the same functionality), and GNOME panel applets eat memory like crazy! (But that's partly a general problem of CORBA, not so much GNOME's fault)
Besides that, many WM are already KDE aware, so you can use Window Maker, Afterstep, or the lean blackbox or flwm if you find KWM too bulky.
As much as I love the eyecandy of Enlightenment, saying that E is faster/more stable than KWM is IMHO fiction instead of fact...

Toolkits
Raw toolkits: Strip out the desktop environments, and GTK wins out over Qt. This is simply a matter of functionality: GTK offers more than a few things which you can't get with Qt alone.
I don't know where you get this information from. Even gtk advocate concede that QT is way ahead in terms of productive features, simply because they started earlier. Take e.g. printing, a pretty basic thing: gtk doesn't offer the respective widgets yet, while it is very easy to implement with QT. (And with all due respect, having pinnable or themable toolbar is not such a top priority).
More importantly, we're talking about QT 1.4x here. QT 2 is currently in late beta, and it offers many major improvements.
Don't get me wrong, gtk is a nice toolkit, and I'd love to see KDE support for it (like for fltk and tcl/tk), but we should stay realistic.

Programming Language
The language issue is irrelevant; several C++ bindings exist for GTK and a set of C bindings is being worked on for Qt
You are not an OO programmer, I presume. There is a big difference whether you have OO bindings or a entirely OO structure. Many Object Oriented features (overloading, inheritance etc.) are restricted if you have just bindings.
Making a OO lib like QT "flat" by offering a procedural interface (like C) is easier, but many C advocates will still say it's not the ideal solution (less efficient that plain C etc.)
Thus, Gtk is still the best choice for C, and QT for OOP and C++ programming. As OOP is more appropriate for GUIs, things look maybe a bit better for QT, but with the large C coder base on Linux, this may still be a draw.

Conclusion: Due to the longer development period, KDE is undoubtedly ahead of GNOME in terms of stability, maturity and productivity. It's much better than its reputation among geeks.
GNOME does a good job in offering a more individual and artistic look, so it is well suited for experiments at home.

KDE -- kinda sorta free (not available for commercial use)

Never heard of that. You must be a victim of the RedHat FUDmachine. KDE has always een free for commercial purposes of all kind.
Only for developing propietary apps with QT you need to shell out money for a license. Alas, the GPL doesn't allow this at all, and few people here complain...

I don't care for KDE's window styles and the fact that portions resemble Windows too much. Plus it just seems too noisy in general.

If you don't like them, don't use them. Use KWM themes, or another WM.
The next KDE version will have fewer debugging output, as for the noisy part.

Oh man do I have a story to tell...

For the past 9 years I've lived with computers all around me. At first I had the black background of the VT terminals and Apple IIs. Next I migrated to the multifinder on a MacPlus. This was a big transition for me, with the new 'grey' background and all. I mean, who would ever want such a fancy background.

Well... I soon got over my shock at seeing that horrible grey. Later, when Windows and MacOS 7 came out, I was able to switch back to lovely solid colors. I mean, those are the bomb. Don't get me wrong, but solid is cool. It doesn't clutter a thing. It reflects zero personnality. It's blah!

That is, until I saw propaganda. I don't know what I was thinking. I mean, just to think that I was being un-American with my desktop! For all I know, my desktop color was the cause for the war in Kosovo right now. Well, I'm glad to be rid of my old plain desktop.

I suggest to all you conservatives who live for the green on black to go to propaganda. Check it out, you'll learn something.

Oh man do I have a story to tell...

For the past 9 years I've lived with computers all around me. At first I had the black background of the VT terminals and Apple IIs. Next I migrated to the multifinder on a MacPlus. This was a big transition for me, with the new 'grey' background and all. I mean, who would ever want such a fancy background.

Well... I soon got over my shock at seeing that horrible grey. Later, when Windows and MacOS 7 came out, I was able to switch back to lovely solid colors. I mean, those are the bomb. Don't get me wrong, but solid is cool. It doesn't clutter a thing. It reflects zero personnality. It's blah!

That is, until I saw propaganda. I don't know what I was thinking. I mean, just to think that I was being un-American with my desktop! For all I know, my desktop color was the cause for the war in Kosovo right now. Well, I'm glad to be rid of my old plain desktop.

I suggest to all you conservatives who live for the green on black to go to propaganda. Check it out, you'll learn something.

I personally don't need all that extra stuff so I just use WindowMaker. So I don't have any files on my desktop, because I don't have that functionality (don't miss it, reminds me too much of winbloze and Macintosh, mac isn't quite as bad, but I still won't use one as my personal computer).

This whole thing is about choice. You choose your GUI based on what you need. Check out the feature listings, go read up on a couple of these proggies, gnome stuff is at www.gnome.org and KDE is based at www.kde.org. I personally use WindowMaker, refered to earlier as "GNUstep." They all have their advantages, they all are extremely configurable, check out themes.org, and pay special attention to OctoberX's stuff (he's one of /.'s).

So I guess what all the hubbub is about, is that we pick what our GUI looks like and how it reacts to our commands. It is a huge matter of personal needs and preferences. There isn't anything forced on us. SuSE comes configured to run KDE, but I changed when I decided I didn't like it. Like the distro wars, one's choice of GUI can get to be pretty personal and some users tend to get pretty emotional about their particular window manager.

ph43drus

When I found an environment that let me Alt-Tab to other applications by default (not to mention using the keyboard to go to another virtual desktop) and make me feel like I could manipulate and configure my environment from the environment itself I finally felt like I could have faith in world domination. Besides, it's wonderful to be able to have themes and event driven sounds. These little things make going from A to B that much quicker.

bnf

I am not saying that making your screen look like Quake increases productivity or is 'cool' but I just wonder _if_ nobody cares for themes, why do places like themes.org and winamp skin stuff get so much hits? :) Why are we always drooling for screenshots when there is a new app in town?

I guess it is something like you want to show you can control the computer and thus make it look different. "This is my computer and I can do what I want" - maybe it is the same freedom that makes people use open-source software. Like "nobody is gonna tell ME what my desktop shall look like"..

Of course this has nothing to do with 'good' or 'bad' interface, there are good themes (I use the E-mac theme for E - it is pretty clean and nice - which is, again, my opinion), and there are always not that good themes - like with all things in this world.

Basically themes are not a 'gui'. They are just pretty wrapping over the real interface - it is more like if the application has weird interface you cant make it more intuitive with themes - or the opposite. The gui dont change - it still has the same widgets and layout - it just may look different. (Ok, some mp3 players have themable GUI too, but IMHO that is a bit different thing - if we are talking of word processors and such things - in general you dont change the gui with themes)

..and as always, this is just my view from my sandbox ;)

here here! People that are complaining that E is too much eye candy are missing the details. E can look any way you want it to look. If you think the default theme is too gaudy, grab another. Try looking at e.themes.org. Bottom line is that E lets to change almost everything about its look. Start with the theme that you like and start tweaking when you feel like it. You don't have to get everything perfect the first day you set it up. My desktop is ever evolving. I just make changes when I feel like it or come up with something new. It is nice be able to have control. :-) I agree with others that it would be really cool to have a scripting language for defining actions in E. This would make E not only the ultimate in customizable looks, but also in feel. Of course, I shouldn't be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Thanks Rasterman and Mandrake!

I tried E once. After dowloading what seemed like 7 different libraries to get it to run, I fled in horror when I realized it couldn't minimize windows yet.

However, when a .deb comes out, if it does minimize windows, I'm willing to give it another shot. But with a simple, clean looking theme.

There is BrushedMetal-TigerT, Clean, and ShinyMetal, all of which are pretty basic/clean. Check e.themes.org for more. :-)

Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com

yes, its true. i am a 15 year old monkey-spank. no really kiddies, im really not. why did i not reply to his "thats not all you feel" comment.. a few reasons..

1) it was immedially ignored, totally-childish.

2) just re-read his comment, its sad.. really it is

3) last of all, him, and you for that matter, are scared of revealing your true identity. its people like the Anonymous Cowards that ruin slashdot and make it a worse and worse experience for the rest of us who wish to come here and discuss the latest happenings in the computer world, with your pathetic remarks, and i dont even want to waste my time typing to re-comment on such praising peices of work.

once again, thanks for replying. it always makes my day to be able to come back and reply to such intelligent and humble minded comments. any more comments/questions, email me.

/shouldn't you guys be in school right now?

http://www.roxen.com/ for roxen, its a *very* powerful webserver.

iVend is a commercial module by license, but its undergoing testing right now. Its currently in use for a few sites.

Roxen has SSL3 support, the works. Its fast, and its got commercial support if you so need it.`

I'm currently re-writing themes.org to use it. http://random.themes.org/ shows my current blackbox page that I will use to replace the current one on themes.org.

Woo.. Roxen has a pop3 server too =) Combined with SQL authentication, its pretty damn easy to create clusters too.

--- mailto:vjanelle@home.com -- Vincent "Random I forgot my password again" Janelle.

Does anyone know what mp3(?)-player it is down there in the corner on this propanda screenshot?

Down with the wankers who criticize his character for using slashdot as the biggest banner of all in promoting themes.org.

Hey, while you're at it.. why not go visit themes.org?

Blah.

Down with the wankers who criticize his character for using slashdot as the biggest banner of all in promoting themes.org.

Hey, while you're at it.. why not go visit themes.org?

Blah.

Down with the wankers who criticize his character for using slashdot as the biggest banner of all in promoting themes.org.

Hey, while you're at it.. why not go visit themes.org?

Blah.

If I want to read news about themes.org, I will go to themes.org. I don't, so I don't. Not that I could read any news at themes.org anyway, what with the hideous layout and fourth-grade-level spelling and grammar. Spare us, OK?

P.S. I've always thought themes.org (I refuse to be 3l33t and call it "t.o") was out of hand, but propaganda.themes.org proves it. WTF is this JFK shit? Oh, wait... there it is... Bowie "ArCtAnGenT" Poag strikes again. Hmmmm. Maybe he'll work the same "magic" for themes.org that he did for the GNOME UI group and, what was it, "InSight"...? Losers.

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access / on this server.

That's what I get when I follow the link to e.themes.org.

SuSE comes with the biggest set of software (5 CDs), and they have integrated both KDE and Gnome very well into their distro. Default desktop is fvwm2 (as for 5.3), but you can change it with one mouse click on the login screen. They've even written a GUI tool to allow easy switching of WMs under Gnome.

As WM I prefer KWM because it provised the most functionality, just use a different KWM theme on KDE.themes.org. The standard one looks a bit too Windows-OS/2-ish for me.

Many WMs now offer KDE and (limited) Gnome support, so you have a choice

Avus

ok, after putting my cyrix as 586 instead of a 486/Cx86, it worked. everything seems to be running smoothly now. if any of you fellow cyrix users out there have any questions, mail me.

--