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This may be proof that Bill Gates is a liar...

From interview:

JENNINGS: Everybody I talked to seems to, particularly if they are young, seems to think that open sourcing is important and that among the reasons it is important is that it enables them to run more secure systems. Is that true from your point of view?

GATES: Actually no, but that is the kind of competition that we have. Is that they will innovate in that space, we will innovate in our space. And in fact, we do a lot of work to make sure that these things can inter-operate so that a company can have a mix of Microsoft products, Unix products, Mainframe products, and then each time they do a project they can look and say - is the Microsoft solution best? Is the other solution best? And so there will just be a lot of choices there, no one approach is going to replace the other. (emphasis above added)


Now compare the above with this:

" If you visit the download center with IE you get an activex control, but if you try with Firefox, you'll have to download a little program, that returns a code you have to copy into the download page, to get access to the download you selected. By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. the Windows Genuine Advantage program press release says that in the second half of 2005, all users connecting to the Microsoft download center or to windows update will have to validate their copy of windows. Interestingly if you run the validation program on wine, and the version of windows you're emulating is prior to 2000 or is windows server 20003, you get a message saying a validation code couldn't be found, because of technical difficulties or because you're running an unsupported operating system."

It looks like if you use IE with it's native ActiveX support that there's no problem with any OS version running over wine. From the 1st reply to the original wine email:

> From: Ivan Leo Puoti > > Interestingly if you run the validation program on wine, > and the version of windows you're emulating is prior to > 2000 or is windows server 20003, you get a message saying > a validation code couldn't be found, because of technical > difficulties or because you're running an unsupported > operating system. > If you set winver to win2000, you'll get a validation code > that doesn't work, this may be a bug in wine, or in the > validation program. When I run the validation program on my genuine Win2k system, I get the message saying a validation code couldn't be found because of technical difficulties or because I'm running an unsupported operating system. When using IE and thus the ActiveX control there is no problem and my Windows is recognized as genuine. Looks to me the standalone validation program is seriously broken.... Gé van Geldorp.

and a WINE does not run on any legitimate Microsoft operating systems

Yes it does.

Wine is apparently able to use Windows printer drivers. I've never used this feature myself and there doesn't seem to be that much info about it but this may be worth examining.

And what the hell is POWER and pSeries? I'm pretty much going to ignore this article. I've been writing win32 software for quite some time and am seriously fed up with that platform. Rather than tweaking my software so that it works with Wine I'm much more interested in rewriting the GUI from scratch using wxWidgets. With a wx based application, you can then compile it into native Linux (GTK+), native win32, or even Mac OS X apps. To me that seems like the most promising route. I've used some wx based applications like Audacity and they're just amazing, really look like they belong on each target platform.

Wine HQ
and
NASM

If you're a linux user, why don't you use WINE? Photoshop 6 (which is pretty nice) runs fine for me using it? It's a bit of a pain to install, since you have to modify your wine registry, and etc etc. I even got fonts and the eye candy filters working.

Alternately, you can go for the pay for play version CrossOver Office

Also, there's rumors of Adobe putting in Linux support for newer versions too

In your October 2004 interview with VNUnet.com you deny that Microsoft must compete with Linux in your operating systems, going so far as to say that 'nothing could be further from the truth.' With this in mind, why does Microsoft not aid in the development of API's designed to enable Linux-based operating systems to run Microsoft applications? If the Linux community and Microsoft are not competitors, as you claim, it seems to follow that collaboration on such projects as Wine (Win32) and Cedega (DirectX) would do nothing but benefit the community overall, and do much for future interoperability.

until the EFF has no more money to give WINE.

Interesting timing on that comment. :)

For those readers not in the know, Sun Microsystems developed their own PCI device of a completely sufficient x86 computer. The earliest model IIRC is a AMD K6-2 based cadillac-length adaptor with audio dsp, VGA, 100BaseTX, IDE, RS232C, and RS422; the last model IIRC was Pentium3/Celeron based with the expected features as anyone would think to receive. To my comprehension, it could be standalone when not installed in a PCI slot on a SPARC architecture. Aside from SPARC, Apple developed a similar methodology. Yet despite all the hardware dependancies, everyone wants a fast cross-architecture interface to a large base of applications on another software platform. For PowerPC, there is not much hope for having a natively-compiled WINE run-time on a GNU Linux/PowerPC environment. Wine can be compiled and its API partially usable on PowerPC, despite being pre-dominantly an x86 question. Wine hasn't ventured into Alpha architecture lair, though to conclude with a performing course few venture onto for x86 Win32 applications in Wine on non-x86 architectured environments; the sole remedy is to download a pre-compiled x86 binary package of Wine in a package format that you are comfortable with prepareing to host with possible hostility to the local linux Distribution, download the great Qemu virtualization software, and follow the instructions to running a x86 win32 application within a x86 qemu virtualization process of x86 Wine on a non-x86 architecture with feasible acceleration.

Qemu is not necessarily an emulator, but a virtualization process that interprets machine code in real time and dynamically translates it to correspond with the software platform of the hosting architecture; x86 to PowerPC or Sparc or Alpha, interchangable and not necessarily limited to x86 yet Wine needs x86 to present any value. Qemu is painful to setup because for each environment it needs its own chroot foundation on the local filesystem an those things can hurt the simple people that just want the end-result; perhaps a GUI can help, but nay!

This should help

CodeWeaversHas their own version of Wine but almost all changes are rolled back in the main tree. I bought version 2, and don't need the features of the new version 4.1, but if I understand you, it's perfectly fine for me to save on the measly $40 and pirate this product?

"IBM is using Wine to run Lotus Notes software on thousands of clients, according to sources, but ironically, the company's internal use of the open-source Windows operating system emulator did not translate into a ringing endorsement in a guide to migrating to Linux clients, published recently on IBM's Web site."

W - Wine
I - Is
N - Not an
E - Emulator

Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix.

Wine Myths

I get a feeling that somehow this article was pushed by Microsoft or Microsoft supporters.

Then you want Wine.

(Or, rather, you want a version of Wine from far in the future when it works a lot better)

--AC

By going this route, one could be Microsoft Free (tm) without running any Linux on their machine. Granted, it'll probably be another year or so until ReactOS can run major applications, but it'll be an interesting option.

Currently, ReactOS is running Windows GUI applications thanks to code shared with the Wine project. The networking stack was just implemented, and some simple web applications are running.

There are also alternatives for creating Flash content natively under Linux.

There is only one solution to this problem under Linux: Adobe GoLive under Wine. OK, so it's closed source, but OS web design programs have lightyears to catch up before a serious designer can use them.

I'll take a break from Linux and boot into WinXP Home

It's not all or nothing. Windows is great for stuff like this.

I don't understand your `all or nothing' comment at all. What's all or nothing?

In the past, Tax Cut and Turbo Tax have run fine on Wine. As long as they aren't trying to do some really stupid low-level DRM stuff (like Turbo Tax did last year) I'd expect it to still work fine under Wine.

Myth 1 Debunked: "[A]s the name says, Wine Is Not a (CPU) Emulator."

Wine just provides the Windows API. This means that you will need an x86-compatible processor to run an x86 Windows application, for instance from Intel or AMD.

2.1. What is Wine and what is it supposed to do?
Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX operating systems such as Linux. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a set of libraries that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The libraries may also be used for porting Win32 code into native UNIX executables, often without many changes in the source.

1.1: What is Wine, and what is it supposed to do?
Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a library that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The library may also be used for porting Win32 code into
native UNIX executables.

Myth 1 Debunked: "[A]s the name says, Wine Is Not a (CPU) Emulator."

Wine just provides the Windows API. This means that you will need an x86-compatible processor to run an x86 Windows application, for instance from Intel or AMD.

2.1. What is Wine and what is it supposed to do?
Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX operating systems such as Linux. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a set of libraries that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The libraries may also be used for porting Win32 code into native UNIX executables, often without many changes in the source.

1.1: What is Wine, and what is it supposed to do?
Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a library that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The library may also be used for porting Win32 code into
native UNIX executables.

You're an assclown!

http://www.winehq.com/site/myths

"As Wine's name says: "Wine Is Not an Emulator": Wine does not emulate the Intel x86 processor."

but wouldn't it be the next logical step to make a source code translator to alter win32 code to something that compiles and runs on linux?

Winelib aims to do something like this, and for simple apps, it works. It still has a long way to go, and everytime MS adds or changes an API, it just adds to the to-do list.

In general, though, it isn't translating the source code itself, but compiling it on the target platform, where the APIs you use have to be available in some form. Winelib provides many of the Win32 APIs to Linux, but Direct3D is not among them.

My PC clock speed drops to 4.8 MHz and mathematical calculations result in arithmetic errors when my computer consumes wine. IMHO a drunk computer is not a good participant in the World Community Grid.

And she demands the finest wine too, not a cheap 5 buck chuck. But when she's drunk she's easy, so I'm not complaining ;-)

It seems to run on WINE for me, but I've only ran it for maybe 3 minutes now. I'm using TransGaming's Cedega (formerly WineX) version of WINE to run it though, so I'm not quite sure if it works with plain WINE.

-b0lt

It is not clear to me that your mom's computer needs cannot be met using Linux together with Win4Lin (also here), WineX (Cedega) (also here), wine, VMWare, etc.
I suspect that not all of these would be needed by your mom and some things still might not work. However, not all (windows) applications she might want will run on Apple machines. In fact, not all windows applications will run on windows machines.

For one phone company I know of, which has such a Windows app for their customer service representatives to work with customers' accounts, I demonstrated it running perfectly in Wine. I was able to access and make changes to accounts just the same as if it were running on Windows, with no trouble whatsoever.

If it's not mentioned already, some discussion of Wine and its suitability for those types of applications definitely should be included.

Until GIMP receives more power (features, interface) under the hood, or Adobe or Jasc start porting their products, professional photographers CAN'T use Linux. Whatever Linuxies may claim, those of us generating 2000+ images per month can't make any sacrifices in our workflow. Die-hard Linux users are well advised to use a little Wine http://www.winehq.com/ with their photo processing...

As for scanning - I agree with the above - Vuescan is great on Macs.

Once you've done all the exercises there, phase 2 of your education should be the igowin demo, which uses a 9x9 board. You get to reinforce what you've learned by playing actual games on a small board. The game AI starts out at (what it considers) 20 or 30 kyu, I think, and then gets progressively more difficult. So you'll see how far down you can get... before too long, you should be able to beat the computer without too much trouble. Side note: it's a windows program, but it's a simple executable; I remember being able to run it fine in wine a couple years ago.

Good luck with the Go. And fyi, GoBase is a great site to check out once you know how to play.

Cedega (from Transgaming) is good for games and Crossoveroffice is good for office-apps. I hope they soon merge their code into wine.

Yours, Gery

Wine is the name of the opensource project (that started the whole thing).

Then theres a fork of Wine made by Codeweavers called Crossover Office (and originally Crossover Plugin). The Codeweavers product is aimed at (you've already guessed if you don't know) office/productivity software support, like Microsoft Office, Dreamweaver, Windows Media Player and more recendly iTunes. Codeweavers gives their improvements back to the community (I'm not sure Transgaming does).

Of course the product we are talking about here is TransGaming's Cedega, which is yet another fork from the original Wine project (was previously called WineX). They of course support games, directx and proprietary safedisk copy protection schemes.

Both products apparently try to avoid stepping on eachothers toes (so to speak). And both products approach licensing very differently (after forking from Wine proper, Transgaming had a bit of scandel about not giving back, old story).

Personally, I think its pretty funny loading up IE or Word under Linux. Its also pretty nice being able to use Photoshop and Dreamweaver without having to dual boot.

Wine is the name of the opensource project (that started the whole thing).

Then theres a fork of Wine made by Codeweavers called Crossover Office (and originally Crossover Plugin). The Codeweavers product is aimed at (you've already guessed if you don't know) office/productivity software support, like Microsoft Office, Dreamweaver, Windows Media Player and more recendly iTunes. Codeweavers gives their improvements back to the community (I'm not sure Transgaming does).

Of course the product we are talking about here is TransGaming's Cedega, which is yet another fork from the original Wine project (was previously called WineX). They of course support games, directx and proprietary safedisk copy protection schemes.

Both products apparently try to avoid stepping on eachothers toes (so to speak). And both products approach licensing very differently (after forking from Wine proper, Transgaming had a bit of scandel about not giving back, old story).

Personally, I think its pretty funny loading up IE or Word under Linux. Its also pretty nice being able to use Photoshop and Dreamweaver without having to dual boot.

Actually you are wrong. Emulation is the process of imitating another program for the purposes of creating compatibility. If you really want to you can call it a compatibility layer, but it is an emulator nonetheless. It emulates the Win32 API on an non Win32 machine. The acronym actually stands for Wine Is Not a (CPU) Emulator.

Proof Search for "Wine is not a"

The copy protection system "Safedisc" needs a kernel-mode driver to run on NT based OSes called secdrv.sys. Since installing kernel-mode drivers needs to be a privelege given only to trusted users, you need to run as admin so it can install the driver.
Here is a good link from a WINE mailing list archive about it.

Sometimes apps want to write all their config stuff in HKLM, so they need access to that, or create temp files or config files in the Windows directory, along with blindly asking for write access to stuff in Program Files. Tools like Filemon and Regmon will show you those access attempts.

http://www.winehq.com/?interview=14

If any (and I do mean ANY...I don't care if you're a janitor) of Microsoft's staff read this, then please immediately do the following:-

1. Go to the highest person in the Microsoft heirarchy that you have access to, and persuade them to download a copy of the latest stable version of FreeBSD. I don't care HOW you persuade them, either. Use offers of drugs/various family members/their souls etc as needed. Be creative. This is important.

2. Explain to Jim Allchin and the various other hardcore Windows advocates (or get someone else to, if you don't have access to him) that by making a FreeBSD-derivative core with a Windows shell, he'll actually get to have his cake and eat it too:- The security/stability everyone wants, plus Windows' strengths in the user interface dept.

3. Round up MS's gaggle of programmers and make it happen. Don't get hung up on dumb, overly complex features that nobody needs (like WinFS) at this point. Keep the MS emphasis on user interface, (which we know Microsoft are good at) and backwards compatibility with other Windows versions (Which is half done for you - Go download Wine) and let the BSD peeps handle the nuts and bolts stuff. (which they're scarily good at) Wine is under the GPL, so you'll need to behave yourselves there, but you're in the clear with the BSD license, since without the advertising clause now you can basically do whatever you want with it. For PR bonus points, you MIGHT want to release source of at least some of your modifications as did Apple with OSX...and given Microsoft's image over the last couple of years, it's an idea to meditate on.
Do NOT, under any circumstances, remove/attempt to hide bash access, either. Make it so the newbs don't have to use it, sure...but leave it there for those of us who want it.

4. Profit. Which you will, presumably to an insane degree...because while people who need lots of user-friendliness can still have it, the rest of us poor souls who have to help such people in the face of Microsoft's currently non-existent security model will have our burden considerably lightened. (and thus be far more effective at our jobs) So while the first group will continue to give you money, there's a good chance that the second group might start to enthusiastically do so as well.

Dump the current licensing model, and profit from volume, support, and upgrades. (In terms of the number of people needing to install MS upgrades, you'd probably be a lot smarter charging for those rather than using ugly licenses and then making the upgrades freebies...the current licenses are a PR killer, if nothing else. This'd do wonders for the TCO argument, as well)

5. Due to 4, the company will notice that although its revenue level might initially decrease somewhat, it then stands a much more certain chance of stabilising afterwards. (Linux is causing you to start to lose money now anywayz, and the bleeding is only going to get more rapid if you stay the current course)

Because of this, eventually a realisation might be reached that it is truly unnecessary to continue to try to discredit/outlaw/otherwise neutralise those of us who just happen to like using Linux (which is hell on Microsoft's own image anywayz) especially seeing as there'd be a fair chance that this plan would convert a sizable number of them to the new product anyway. We could call off the entire Linux/MS war...Joe Sixpack would be happy, the CLI/blackbox geeks would be happy, MS would still make lots of money, and the world would keep turning.

Think about it. For the sake of everyone, including yourselves. Please.

Windows at present is mostly based on the 32-bit Intel architecture. Microsoft did its worst dirty tricks in the last dying days of the segmented 16-bit architecture, using DOS dominance to get market share for its 32-bit attempt. It's going to have to chose between AMD-64 and Intel-64 anyway, or support both, and binary application developers will need to make the same choice, so I guess the submitter would argue that PPC-64 (which has been around longer) is a viable option. However, there's a big movement away from software that's tied down to one platform or another, which is good for Linux, Java, and all the other OS, hardware and software vendors, programmers, and users.

The limited adoption and big troubles implementing Wine suggests to me that there would be little interest in a Microsoft port of Windows to yet another architecture. Windows 95 was probably the most-memorable MS-Windows version ever, and yet Microsoft has had to fragment even that identity to keep up its sales, starting with that crazy desktop in XP. The claim that Windows has excellent backward compatibility is bogus, too; for instance, the copy of TeraTerm that I carry around on a floppy has never worked on any NT2k or later system I've touched, and the default installation of Microsoft Word can't read files created by any version of Microsoft Works. I could contiue this rant...

My last publishing outfit I worked at still has some old 386's running dos 3 for some old wordprocessing apps so they can read in files written ages ago on those packages and then save them out into a friendlier format for recovering the text.

By the way, this product looks rather interesting for running legacy apps on Linux thin clients...

I give you wine.

>In fact the only thing I think windows has going for it is Photoshop.

I am using Photoshop 7 on Linux without any problem. Try Wine.

My Canon A40 works just fine in Linux, using Digikam (via gphoto2). A large number of Canon and Minota cameras are supported under Linux. Also, many Canon and Minolta printers are supported.

I agree about a native PSP for Linux - that would rock - but have you tried it with Wine?

Wine anyone?

You can run it with wine.

Wine can run doom 3, just without the interactive computer screens

Odds are not bad that you can run Wine under Windows, at least with cygwin. On the WineHQ website is a Project registered on that subject.

Just think of the possibilities: Wine on Win on Wine on Win on ... and in case of QuickTransit you can't tell the difference!

er ... um .. I mean quit wine-ing .

I suggest you read their faq.

Sorry, but Photoshop does not run on linux.

No, Photoshop runs on Linux, under WINE. The same way the GIMP runs on Windows. You don't think Windows comes preinstalled with the Linux API, do you?

My point is that GIMP cannot be used as an "advantage" for linux given that it is a "free" program available on Windows as well as linux.

I wasn't saying it could be used as an advantage for Linux. Just as Photoshop can't be used as an "advantage" for Windows. In fact I think it runs fastest on OSX. :)

For the commercial applications that aren't available there's always WINE. ;)

which was running on emulator running on Linux! So we still have no Linux iTunes. We have only emulator support for Windows version of iTunes on Linux.

Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix.

Think of Wine as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely alternative implementation consisting of 100% Microsoft-free code, but it can optionally use native system DLLs if they are available

The DMCA allows an exception "solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other that this section" 17 U.S.C 1201(f)(3). (emphasis mine)

The judge in the SCC/Lexmark case read this very narrowly and said that since the algorithm came on a chip, it was non-exempt hardware instead of software. This case isn't allowing software/software interoperability (like Wine offers), but it's data/software interoperability. Big difference; if the DMCA allowed that, then DVD-playing would be legal (same interoperability, except in reverse)

Jeremy White seems to disagree. And if it wasn't for Wine and Codeweavers, I would still be damning OOo for every freaking glitch in their not-so-flawless MS Office in/export filters.

When you live in the corporate world, you can't "slowly migrate away from windows", as you put it. You just have to blend in with the Windows-using lot. And hope they don't spot you, too -- because I have had a number of clueless sysadmins telling me that "Linux breaks the network" when I was the only one who just keeps on working when the zillionth worm hits.

What do you find interesting, and what do you need to be informed about?
Security?
Wine updates?
http://seclists.org/
http://www.cert.org/
Those are interesting and informative for me, but a perl developer can probably give a damn about the latest nmap release.

What are your needs?