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Netscape 6
An anonymous reader noted an article that showed up on PC World discussing Netscape 6. The beta is gonna start up on Tuesday ... ya know what the strangest part is? Calling it 'Netscape 6'. We've been thinking of it as 'Mozilla' for so long, thinking of it as 'Netscape' seems so ... boring.
I don't know about netscape, but I'm using Mozilla M14 right now, and I got here from my slashdot sidebar panel. With mozilla it's one of the ones on the list when you hit customize on the sidebar.
Moe-zilla. Think "Mosaic" + "Godzilla".
I should have saved those mod points. This is funny.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
They wrote it in C instead of C++
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
That was the most popular joke going around the QA department when i spent a semester at Parametric...
amused the hell out of us, but it's not like you can tell the higher ups that their brand new pet name for the product makes them sound like an ass to anyone that knows their math.
They never did a public binary build, nor did they ever, anywhere, call it NS 5. Skipping 5 is purely a marketing/psychological thing in the competition with IE.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Nope. Their approach is just to support all standards perfectly and hope people will come around to those. They are not going to build in support for MSisms. If you think about it, it makes sense- playing the game by MS's rules guarantees you will always be behind, and as a result, always lose. If they change the playing field on MS (and try to make it a standards-based battle) then they at least have some chance.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
No matter the version number, I know my routine:
- Since I run some form of Unix, at least give the latest {netscape,opera,mozilla,...} a chance
- Since MSIE isn't even available for the OS I usually use, prejudice or zealotry doesn't even get a shot at being a reason why I won't consider it (tho for {SunOS,HP-UX} the suckitude of MSIE hasn't personally been verified; no time at work)
- When I run Windows, I always make sure it's outfitted with Opera (and perhaps netscape for javascript weirdness)
- If I can get my hands on any other browser for Win32, go give it a spin; hell, it'll at least be different
No mater what, MSIE has already made my mind up, years ago. O had a big say in nailing the IE coffin shut and shoveling the dirt into the hole.*whew* A rather lengthy way of saying that MS taught me many years ago to disregard versioning.
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Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't navigator 4.x's immense size due to it being statically linked?
now that it is compiled against glibc2.1, we won't have the size problems, just lots of compiling prolems.
support gun control: take guns from cops
Actually he is, you just aren't in on the joke.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
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I would say about 99%... (the percentage is rounded off)
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That seems like a great thing, but Flash support for Linux is already available anyway. Don't know how long it has been around, but /usr/lib/netscape/plugins/libflashplayer.so handles things just fine here.
Maybe we should have a vote as to the name.
I'm sick of these version numbers being tacked onto programs. It's almost as bad as Rocky 1,2,3 or Scream 1,2,3 blah...
How about Netscape Mozilla if they want they name next to it.
When shit hits the fan get some of these https://youtu.be/pY-GncsZ-UE
I beg your pardon! IE is Windows-only, which makes it useless for non-Windows users, and embedded systems.
It's actually available for Solaris too (not the x86 version). I tried to run it once, but no windows ever appeared.
Well, yeah. But don't expect anyone to admit to that in public...
IE can load any COM application as a 'plug-in'. (For example, you can get Word or Excel docs to load inside of IE.)
/. had an article where the Gnome developers confessed that they were very inspired by Internet Explorer as a modern, completely componentized application. Plus, as we all know, using HTML to browse your file system is the super kewl way to do it, and a browser component is necessary to create an "ActiveDesktop".
Mozilla implements the same COM interface that Microsoft does for their "rendering engine". Thus you should be able to embed Mozilla anywhere you can embed IE (an obvious place is the AOL Client). Apparently you can even embed Mozilla inside of the IE chrome!
This is all on Windows, of course. I don't know if Mozilla works with any of the Unix component interfaces (Gnome, KDE, etc), or if these component interfaces are even ready to be used. I suspect this will be rectified quickly -- a couple weeks ago
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Well, Communicator 4 ships with a bunch of doohickies that are only really useful if you are using Netscape server products. Some of this stuff had to be ripped out of Mozilla because Netscape didn't own the code. I don't know if AOL is planning to put that back in.
In addition, you'll have AIM, maybe AOL's napster clone, Real Player, Netscape-specific chrome, Shop button, etc, etc. 99% may be a little high.
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Of course people will believe them and 'correct' you when you say otherwise.
Also, when does Tandy 1000 version come out??! Now that I've finally upgraded from my old TSR-80 I want to get on this "web" thing I've heard so much about! hehe
How did I know you went to RPI when I saw you mentioning ProE? :)
-Derek (RPI, CSYS, class of 2003)
Looks like netscape pulled the file. Anybody know where I can find it?
Is it only available foe win32 (for now that is)?
you wouldn't want to make the linux build available now would you?
-Jae
Ahh.. isn't that the point of Netscape/Mozilla... to do a complete rewrite of the browser to be small and more stable?
Yes. The SMP crashing bug was fixed about 10 days ago... since then for basic browsing Mozilla has been at least as stable for me (on my dual-600Mhz SMP box) as Netscape 4.72, if not more so. Netscape 4.72 freezes quite regularly under SMP... Mozilla doesn't. It still has a lot of rough edges, but it's definitely stable enough for browsing now.
Heh... you made my IE BSOD...
No, wait, I mean "I don't use IE!"
Would that make it:
Palm 9 from outer space!
sorry
Java programmers do it with
You can install what you want. You can leave off mail/news. Or Java. Or AIM. You can install just the browser, if you like.
I believe you can (or could at any rate) get
IE5 for Solaris.
They aren't technically "skins" per say. They affect the whole UI- For instance, some of the current chromes change where buttons are, or the menu layout. Its more like an e-theme or something along those lines... Its really cool stuff. For more on all of this, check out ChromeZone at MozillaZine (It will eventually be at Chromezone.org). Be sure to check out Aphrodite, its an /excellent/ gui.
The sun is going down, I say we follow it out of town- We've been here for far too long.
Still not dead.
Netscape 2000.1, netscape 2000.2 etc...
well, you can have it NOW
There are 2 version's i hope netscape releases. one - just the browser and two - browser plus email/news, without all the crap. I still wish it was the days of netscape 3.
I propose that we start calling Microsoft with a more colorful name, like MonopolisticSonsOfBitches.
Remember that name. Use it when you talk to people. Eventually, they won't know you replaced it.
From http://www.MonopolisticSonsOfBitches.com/mscorp/
Since its inception in 1975, MonopolisticSonsOfBitches's mission has been to create software for the personal computer that empowers and enriches people in the workplace, at school and at home. MonopolisticSonsOfBitches's early vision of a computer on every desk and in every home is coupled today with a strong commitment to Internet-related technologies that expand the power and reach of the PC and its users.
As the world's leading software provider, MonopolisticSonsOfBitches strives to produce innovative products that meet our customers' evolving needs. At the same time, we understand that long-term success is about more than just making great products. Find out what we mean when we talk about Living Our Values.
Corporate headquarters:
One MonopolisticSonsOfBitches Way
Redmond, WA 98052-6399
Telephone: (425) 882-8080
2000 MonopolisticSonsOfBitches Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use.
Actually WHEN its FINALLY due out...
AIm will be a separately downloadable module. It will be much like the componetised download of IE..
You download a small "Installer" (prolly 450k)
then you get the options of downloading spearate components:
[ ]Core and browser 4.5MB
[ ]mail/news - 1MB
[ ]composer - 500kb
[ ]SUN Java Runtime - 7MB
[ ]Netscape AOL Instant messager - 500kb
[ ]WINAMP - 2MB
[ ]Talkback 1MB
something like that.. you just select what you want, and thats what gets downloaded.
>Have you been to netscape's web page recently?
>Netscape is styling themselves after mozilla, not
>the other way around! I have to agree.
I think the UI WILL be similar to Mozilla, but maybe made a littel more "gentle".
But remember, WHO CARES what NETSCAPE chooses. If you dont like it, you can download a NEW SKIN.
So if you want the Mozilla skin, its just a case of downloading it.
Or if you are good at XUL/CSS/HTML, just make your OWN skin. Remember the customisation goes all the way down to the Dialog boxes (such as the preferences one) You could literrally create ANY skin your want (though it would take a while!)
While it may be coming, I notice that one Net 6 beta (pre-beta?) incarnation is getting savage reviews at BetaNews. Unfortunate.
Besides that it appears to render rather quickly and a lot cleaner than Netscape 4.x.
The excuse that, "they did it first so if they can do it why can't we?" Only serves to perpetuate the disregard the industry has for logical versioning.
Netscape is trying to outversion Microsoft. This is a casualty of an open source project becoming a corporate strategy. Adding fuel to the argument that Open Source and big business don't mix.
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
Yes, I remember using it at the time. It wasn't too bad considering it was built on the old codebase, and just about feature. It even did skins, but not to the extent that Mozilla does. They may still be MozClassic builds floating around somewhere.
As far as I can see Mozilla 5 is still Mozilla 5, it's only Netscape that's version 6.
I got an invitation last week to "the World Premiere of Netscape 6" on Wed 5 April at Internet World in Los Angeles. Steve Case is giving a keynote at 9:30am and there is a press conf at 10:15. The browser will be on display in the netscape booth (exhibits run wed 10am - friday 4pm).
Also the Brave New Unwired World (aka wearable computer) fashion technology show will be in the exhibit hall on wed and thurs at 1pm.
Conference web site is: http://events.internet.com/spring2000
Exhibits + Keynotes is free, if you register by 31 March. $50 afterwards.
There was no Netscape 5.
That is the only possible explanation that I can think of right now. They just skipped over "5" and went straight to 6 in a lame attempt to make it seem that Netscape 6 is more advanced than IE 5. This will probably work with the multitude of stupid people who believe that version numbers are the tellall in the world of computers. (these are probably the same stupid people who think that AOL is that best thing since the transistor.)
Even though I will probably be able to go to quite a few websites that will cause Netscape 6 to crash and burn, it is still a good ploy.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. --Sun-Tzu
Eee, nope. The Mac version of IE 4.5 is fast, stable and more standards compliant than the NS monster. Really, the only reason it should be handled with extreme care is the fact that it is MS. L.
It will search your hardware for a CD writer, and try to burn an AOL CD.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Unfortunately I can't remember which movie it was, although I've a vague feeling that it was a well-known movie in the action- or spy-type genre. Can anyone help me?
You're probably referring to "Mission: Impossible", as I noticed this too when I saw it (this was back in the days of Netscape 3).
Oh well. It was going well, and it is a beta. I really do hope that it gets it act together in a week though, as I am sure it will.
It is faster than IE on Slashdot though, significantly, so that might be the deciding factor. This is my last update - I am sure someone will do a more detailed review later on some site.
More information on this?
Spencer Ogden
So when does Netscape come out for Amiga?
The reason that it is so much smaller is that it does not include all the debugging stuff that Mozilla comes with. So you have no console window, and lots of other debugging stuff that has been stripped out. But you should get equivalent functionality.
Mozilla can run as a plugin for IE; Assuming you're on Win32, this does what you want.
I think this new version of Netscape will surprise a lot of people if AOL doesn't add all their extra crap like AIM for example. The builds of Mozilla have been getting better and better, and if AOL is smart they will leave what Mozilla.Org put into place.
"If you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen"
well perhaps the i is meant in a chemical sence...
they've squared their ion concentration
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Here's a snip from the Internet Explorer support splash window:
Explorer Version: 4.5 (0408)
Encryption: 40 Bit International/Export Version
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.5; Mac_PowerPC)
I'm surprised that my comment got moderated to "flamebait". It certainly wasn't intended that way.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
This comment is clearly fair game. While some may disagree with it, there is no reason for this unfair moderation. With the recent wave of trolls, you wonder how moderators have enough points to make unfair moderations like this one. I've seen half a dozen pro-linux anti-IE posts moderated up, why is this put in a threshold with trolls.
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
Does anyone know what platforms will be supported? Somebody mentioned a Windows and Linux version. How about Solaris, Mac, etc?
I thought that Starting NT at 3.1(or was it 3.0) was to keep it working in apps that simply did a check on the windows version being at least 3.1(3.0).
treke
If you go to www.slashdot.org/code, there is a pointer to a list of headlines. One of the options is for a My.Netscape style template. Maybe there's a way to plug this into Mozilla, kinda makes sense.
treke
The cake is a pie
I love how IE jumped versions to be a higher number in much less time - anyone ever use or even remember IE 2.x or 3.x? I don't recall ever seeing these versions...
As far as I'm concerned, *Netscape{owner} just decided to out-Microsoft Microsoft.
Can you mirror the file somewhere? They've removed it from the site.
IPv5 is multicast. And I'm sure Word 3 is what Word '97 is called somewhere. (Forgive me if I've gotten the years wrong, I'm not too up to date on my microsoft programs)
Netscape 5... I don't know. I'm hearing conflicting reports... but you've got to remember that the engineering is 10% of a product's sucess and the marketing 90%. Take all version numbers with a grain of salt if you don't understand fully what they mean.
-bugg
have you used IE 5 EVER?
Yup. Have you tried IE anything on any platform OTHER than WINDOWS (Mac, Solaris, HP-UX?). Sucks big time.
And macromedia bundles their stuff with Win98 (to work on IE 5, of course). What could
Netscape do about that? Nothing. Sucked to be them.
Wow... something that gets bundled w/ the OS has the upper hand. Wasn't that my point?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
The editorial that starts after the bold text in the article is, IMHO, a flaming pile of crap. His premise is that the plugins drove the browser war to is 'finish' because the plugins are 'os specific' and browser independent. Well, if it interfaces with either browser, then how can that be a factor in a browser battle? Unless one browser handles the plugin better, it should have had any bearing on the 'battle'.
Microsoft won the battle because they DID bundle it with their operating system, which is the dominant OS in the the desktop market. It basically came down to economics. By MS not charging for it, and bundling it with the operating system, they turned it into a commodity. Why download/buy/get another browser, when I already have one. It's not like I can 'get rid' of the one I have... it's in the OS?
Simiarly, the IT departments of companies don't want to spend time, and money supporting two products?
M$ forced their vendors to install the browser when it WASN'T tightly integrated to buy them enough time to integrate it so it HAD to be there...
Maybe this guy should hang out in the REAL world for a while...
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Aero types use i, at least those I've worked with or studied under. I've seen j used mostly by people with EE or physics backgrounds.
I have some really old textbooks that use small omega (~w), and some that seem completely unstandardized; one book even uses a different letter across chapters. Simply a matter of convention, I suppose, existing to prevent the addition of an unnecessary level of abstraction to an already complicated subject.
Rev Neh
... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
where the eye of his telescope has already been
So how long before we can have a slashdot sidebar tab entry too. Just looking at the news and cnn sidebar tabs shows me how nice they could be for any news type site.
They removed it :( SNooze you lose I guess
Never understimate the power of human stupidity -Lazarus Long
Careful what you ask for! Pro/ENGINEER users get to deal with going from Pro/ENGINEER version 20.1 to Pro/ENGINEER 2000i to Pro/ENGINEER 2000i^2 (that's right, i-squared). Does that make more sense?
Shhhh! This is a secret. We're trying not to let all the geeks know about ie5. Modern folks are once again moving on to the next battle, while these geeks are still talking about the battle of the mid 90s'. While they are at it, we shold have them rehash the emacs v.s. vi debate again just so they can burn more cycles going nowhere fast.
In the mean time slashdot is proving to be just like all the big behemoths they are so quick to critize. Saying how great Mozilla is, is like saying how great ie 2.0 was.
Microsoft has proven they can adapt and improve at internet speed. Mozilla has done everything but.
The NPL (the particular MPL-based license used by Netscape for the Mozilla release) grants special rights to the initial developer (in the case of Mozilla, this is Netscape). Specifically: If you release modifications to NPL-covered code, Netscape can use your code in non-NPL products for up to two years following its release (after that, the normal requirements of the MPL apply to Netscape and to everyone else). In addition, Netscape can make their own modifications to NPL-covered code without these modifications falling under the NPL.
Read the licenses yourself if you want the details.
Note that the GPL was not really an option for the Netscape source release, as it is too restrictive to allow Netscape to base their browser on an open-source project while still fulfilling their contractual and legal obligations with regard to licensed, patented, or export-controlled code that is included in the final product. You may complain about some of the terms in the MPL/NPL, but remember that many of them were absolutely necessary for the Mozilla source release to take place.
The problem I've been running into, being a devout Netscape user is that sometimes (errr OFTEN I mean) I run into websites that just plain don't work with Netscape. Sometimes it's because of buggy code (IE is more forgiving of buggy code than NS is), sometimes it's because MS added some non-standard utility into IE and people creating websites using MS tools (*cough*frontpage*cough*) have it "optimized" for IE.
I hope that NS6 can overcome these and work on all webpages. *sigh*
Yeah but do they FORCE you to install AIM?? That's the big thing that irks me about NS. (I'm sure this sounds familiar when installing Windows...) You can't not install some of the components of NS, including AIM...
The non-NS AIM is supposed to be a lot better than the one that's included, it seems silly to have it installed twice.
I'm not accusing anyone of being a red, just curious... but it's definately great conspiracy material, don't you think?
=U= "Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"
If you've checked out the new IE 5 for Macintosh, you'll see an interesting look to it....
It sort of looks like a cross between the look of Mozilla, and the upcoming Aqua GUI for Mac OS X. Looks like MS have made the jump to the new GUI before it's even arrived...
Impressions? Well it's much much much much faster than any other browser out the for MacOS. Very sexy looking....
I've always found doing webdev for IE on Mac an pain in the arse. Different to IE on PC and Netscape on both. I'm finding that IE 5 on Mac is now responding pretty much the same way as the PC version. thank god.
if (document.all) { RubAshesIntoHair(lots_of_ash) }
if (document.layers) { WearSackCloth(itchy_fabric) }
if (navgator.appVersion.indexOf('Mac') != -1){ repeat from 1 to infinity{flagellation} }
i don't read slashdot anymore.
No, the version 5 code was dumped. Version 6 was a fresh start. It just so happens that it beats ms on the version thing. What's to stop ms calling the next IE release version 69 or something?
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
All the ones I tried no longer have copies. I am looking for Windows, Linux, etc. ports. :)
Thanks!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Internet Explorer is just a far better browser then Netscape is?
no... no that couldn't possibly be why it got popular! it sucks, but since the whole internet is stupid except for you, they use it anyway!
Now I get it! thank you so much for enlightening me!
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Now you are funny.
You are 100% correct and I have no idea why people are surprised that the mozilla project is being used for Netscape 6. Netscape has always used the mozilla engine. Where do you think the mozilla project came from in the first place? The whole point was to redesign the engine so Netscape could put a snazzier interface on a (near) perfect browsing engine.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
The mozilla raptor ate Netscape 5 and deposited it to /dev/null :-)
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Just wait.. it's still in beta you know. Plenty of time to change that. :-)
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
What about 1? Nobody wants to call anything 1 or even 2 anymore. It's like penis size - when almost everything is really in version 1, people are calling it 5 or 6.
(Not that I'm in version 1. I'm at least a 10.)
lf.o
i thought Mr. Tux was the microsoft spokesthingie. at least, that's what it used to say on that bsd page
lf.o
have you used IE 5 EVER? You can't say that netscape (except possibly the mac version) comes even CLOSE to handling plugins, and new downloads and installation for plug-ins. And macromedia bundles their stuff with Win98 (to work on IE 5, of course). What could Netscape do about that? Nothing. Sucked to be them.
Maybe times will change.
lf.o
I am very curious but what exactly happened to Netscape 5? Is it mozilla? I am currently running 4.7 so I just had to ask this.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
People should realise that *anyone* can take the Mozilla source code, hack it and release an own version.
So - does this mean that we could see in the future: RedHat Mozilla, and Mandrake Mozilla, and Debian Mozilla, etc...?
- passion
This seems to be new
<a href="http://www.opera.com/linux/">
maybe it will run java.
you just seeded the idea in their tiny little minds
I've been using mozilla on and off since M9, and am thourgholy impressed. I cant wait for the netscape-brnaded version (so that it has Java).
What I don't get about this announcement is netscape is releasing their beta a full couple of weeks after M14 came out. Is this actually M15 in hiding or what? If its stable enough to be a branded beta surely its stable enough to be a milestone build.
I use mozilla all the time.. I find it highly useable, and its still pre-alpha!
How come daily builds of Windows 2001 are for sale on street corners in Asia, but nobody's leaked MSOffice for linux or IE for linux?
I don't know.. maybe because they don't exist? Duh
Mmmm.. Donuts
Has anyone tried the performance of the latest version? Early reports of Mozilla was that it was still pretty slow.
If this browser is not at least as fast as IE5 (or faster), they shouldn't bother. I should be able to resize the window and have a very complex page with lots of tables continuously resize to follow the borders of the Window like IE5 does.
--
Scott Pankin's Automatic Complaint Generator
I'm not trying to get char broiled today, but I did load up some of my fav sites with N6 only to be dismayed by it's lack of FUNCTION. Disassemble. Anyone? Is Netscape going to go with a CSS upgrade or are we going to code version 1 forever?
-don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things (;
does this qualify as petty?
believing the big bang requires a certain amount of supernatural faith
As the Mozilla site points out , this is will be a beta release of Netscape, not Mozilla. The two share the same code base. They differ in features, with Netscape targeted towards the 'end user' community and Mozilla targeted towards the 'developer community.'
The difference has to do with what is expected by developers verses what is expected from an end user product. Many Mozilla APIs are not finalized. Also, the Mozilla IRC client is not complete. Lacking an IRC client is of no concern relative the the Netscape product because it isn't included.
I like the arrangement because it shares the effort between both products, while avoiding the obvious conflicts between what AOL wants to put in front of their customers and what 'we' want to see in an Open Source browser.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Have you been to netscape's web page recently? Netscape is styling themselves after mozilla, not the other way around!
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
No, it'd be 9. Word 6, Word 95 (7), Word 97 (8), Word 2000 (9). But the file format is still version 8 - microsoft failed to break compatibility to force users to go buy another upgrade.
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
If you use Windows then you use IE. IE is integrated into the EXPLORER shell and cannot be terminated. Everytime I try to end that task it comes back up again. Windows sux.
There is No Such Thing (tm) as "Netscape." It will always be Mozilla.
Got Rhinos?
Am I the only one amused by a Krock talking about a Gecko?
(Say it out loud if you don't get it)
Hmm... Auto-URL completion is something I'm not sure about. I know that pretty much every major browser (with the possible exception of Lynx, which I haven't used too often) does it. I'm just not sure if I like it. Yes, it is useful at times. But its also annoying. Like when I'm typing in a URL, and it keeps auto-completing it to the wrong URL. Or when it re-auto-completes it just as I hit [enter].
Maybe if they tried to find a way to make it a bit more intelligent?
-RickHunter
I actually like the skins idea. I think that may be one of the things that made WinAmp such a popular MP3 player. Plus, it means that if you don't like the interface, you can tweak it to your satisfaction.
That said, a small, fast, powerful browser using Gecko would be nice. If I had the time to do something like that, I'd try it.
-RickHunter
Incorrect. At the time, they were capitalizing on Windows, not NT. As a result, you could upgrade from your Standards Windows 3.1 to Windows NT 3.1, or Windows 3.1 NT (a matter of how you look at it). The idea that it is related to OS/2 (NOT a common code base) is false.
Also, if 3.51 is 1.11, then 4.0 is 1.2. 3.51->4.0 was VERY minor. They replaced progman.exe with explorer.exe, and moved the video system into the kernel. They also did some tweaks to make Win32 the native toungue instead of a subsystem.
5.0 W2K is what 4.0 was supposed to be... it is Cairo...
Alex
Since there seems to be a mathematical slant to that post, I'd like to mention that Netscape 6 WON'T have MathML implemented.
If you want to view MathML, you still need to download nightly builds of Mozilla from http://mozilla.org
Hopefully, we'll be able to display our wonderful equations on the web soon!!
-
Has anyone noticed a weird thing ? they say that the compressed file will have 5.5 M (compared to 15M the current version). What does this mean ?
That's because they are using a new rendering engine, called... gecko. It's faster and smaller (I think the article says this).
BTW, I still use Netscape 3.0
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Not readable
drwx--x--x 8 888 999 108 Feb 29 16:30 blind
drwx------ 5 888 999 60 Mar 27 18:02 netscape6
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
In fact M$ missed 1903 versions of Office!!!- ----------
--------------------------------------
"If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists" -
Is "Gecko" synonomous with "REALLY REALLY SMALL" nowadays? IIRC the main processor chip in the Nintendo Dolphin is going to be called the Gecko- and it's smaller than the size of an N64 C-Button
----
Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
If they called it 'Nettella' they'd ahve to cancel it immediately.
----
Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Too bad they didn't keep the name MOZILLA.
I was so excited a couple years ago when they announced they were opensourcing the code to start the Mozilla project. I really thought, "The world must be changing."
Since then I have found myself deeper and deeper into OpenSource projects. I hold the philosophy close to my heart. I believe that our movement could really make a difference. Minds are changing everyday. I have a whole family I have pulled into Linux. They eat it up! My little brother is learning Perl and C++ to join into some projects as well.
Thank you to all the developers who have put sooo much time into this project. The world appreciates it!
Oh yeah...WELCOME BACK CMDRTACO! How was vacation?
"Being alive is a crock of shit." --Kilgore Trout
in this pre beta, you were forced to download a 16mb file or so, and you were given the following options: FULL INSTALL (mail/news, navigator, net2phone,AIM, java2,flash plugin) MINIMAL INSTALL (navigator, Java2) JUST NAVIGATOR (no java2) CUSTOM (choose as much or as little as you like) I installed the full version and played around with the AIM built in... its a good idea i suppose but it really seems to slow down the whole browsing process on my machine (400hmz,128mb ram).. but all in all, its really headed in the right direction. ive been using it since i downloaded it a few days ago and its only crashed once!!!
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
No, there will be no ties with the OS and the rendering engine. Netscape was even so kind as to build their own component object model, so that the browser object is cross-platform.
Are we going to need a xss or xsl with the XML diplay on the new comunicater.
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mmmmmmmmm. hagis. Yum.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Just thought I should point out that Netscape 6 is NOT the same thing as Mozilla. Netscape 6 is Netscape Inc.'s newest browser, and incoroporates some parts of the Mozilla browser. Mozilla, that we've been testing for a long time, is not Netscape 6! Mozilla is still far away from an actual release and will not be called "Netscape" anything when it's released. Please get this straight folks, Netscape 6 is still very proprietary.
I'm going to take this as a troll, and reply anyways.
Even though IE may be more advanced and may have won the war (i.e. sites may not try to be netscape compatible anymore) there is still a need to have a browser that will be ported to all platforms. I haven't seen much initiative on microsofts part to port to Linux yet... though this would be the time to do it to try and prevent more open source projects challenging their dominance.
So, no... so long as microsoft tries to limit its platforms its never won.
Thanks for that post. May it bring you much karma!
Australian? Join EFA
Precisely! I didn't switch from Netscape to IE because it was embedded (at that time it wasn't), but because it was much more stable than Netscape. I've used Netscape since version 2.0 (and many Mosaic versions before that), and it's always been a memory hog and violently unstable. Netscape was the only program I used that regularly BSOD'd my NT4 setup.
Even today, Netscape 4.7 may be much faster than IE5, but Netscape still crashes routinely. I use Netscape in Linux only under protest - many times it will freeze my window manager and I'll have to restart X.
Yes, and Netscape still has pages on its own site (everywhere actually) still referring to the current release as "Netscape 4.5"... The point isn't that Netscape's trying to sound better than Microsoft, the point is that Netscape isn't very good with up-to-date web sites.
I don't think it happens enough here so;-
Thankyou very much - I'm using it now and it actually seems quite good.
Once more - thankyou!!
What the difference between a 'marketing-based' choice and a lie??? Maybe netscape made a 'Marketing-based' choice as well?? I don't think Zico knows squat
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
And FWIW, it's not necessary to install all the mindless crap like Instant Messenger, Quality Feedback Agent (if they didn't want this preview to be out yet don't be sending back crash data!), the spell checker and Net2Phone module. Just select the Custom install and unselect those options.
--
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
I was just looking at M14's release notes and I saw a section on Downloable Chrome. I went through my mozilla directories and found one called skin. Inside it another directory named default which has a lot of gifs in it. They were named after parts of the browser, such as back.gif, forward.gif, search.gif, etc. So I went and switched the back and forward ones, loaded up mozilla and now as I see them my back and forward buttons are switched. I didn't know mozilla could do skins! I am looking forward to seeing some nice ones that I can custimize my broswer with. Unlike IE or Netscape 4.72 which look the same all the time.
I've always liked that the development section of Netscape is Mozilla. The separation between the commercial distribution and the development of the program has inspired me. I'm starting up my own small networking solutions company (no, I'm not posting the name or thr URL, the last thing I need is to get /.ed) which I eventually want to become a development house for Linux. I'm hoping to release my own flavour of Linux. The development side is going to be named after a character my partner plays in Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Johny Tux. Like Netscape having Mozilla the monster all over its development, we are going to have a big werewolf, but the distribution will just be Wolfbridge Linux. Ahh, the innumerable joys of being a geek *G*
The chains are broken
Loki is free
Ragnarok is at hand...
Of course I'm pleased to hear it's finally coming, however this article was almost a waste of time to read. No details and yet another rehash of the IE beat the hell out of Netscape and somebody's two cents on why.
5.5mb? One word. Cool.
As for the name, I'm guessing that they think most people will pay attention to Netscape where they might not notice Mozilla.
And the line about most of us using IE, well, I'm sure the author does not hang out here too much... I'd rather eat hagis than use IE.
Venyce
remove all references to 007 to email me
I say we all just revert back to using Lynx...Now thats the ultimate browser
Where can I get a copy of whatever program generated this?
"Your watch says Timex, mine says Rolex. Thats the difference between you and me buddy."
I don't know whats with that guy these days - I quit paying attention when he quit wearing his Superman (or alternately, Black Panther) t-shirt.
but AOL does plan to add a bunch of AOL stuff into it as well.. I can see it now, a screw up like the AOL 5.0 setup... I'll stick with mozilla when its ready than with netscape.
If you are trying to make some predictions here, you should not base them on lines of code alone... try throwin in something like the line length (the smaller the better), years of development (the bigger the better), and so on... plus the boss' IQ of course (that's what makes the formula return *very* small values for any MS soft =)
I'm sure there will be a flash version for windows platform, but will there be a flash plug in for the linux version of netscape 6?
should we organize a mass spam to macromedia to get working on a flash version for linux? or am i in the dark and there already is one?
ideal; model tiny; codeseg; org 100h; start: cli; hlt; ret; ENDS; END start
Mozilla has been more stable than 4.71 for me in most cases, although I've crashed both. It's less of a memory hog judging by my handy xosview window, as well.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
>But the file format is still version 8 - microsoft failed to break
>compatibility to force users to go buy another upgrade.
wow. That's twice in fifteen years! (word 4 & 5 could share files, too.)
hawk
Last time I looked there were still some serious issues when running on a SMP machine. Basically it would crash in minutes (was it something to do with animated pictures?). I'm disabling SMP for Mozilla!
Moe-Zir-ra
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
Engineers use j instead of i.
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I think the animation in the top right is called the "throbber", in reference to the pulsing, throbbing beveled N in the original Navigator.
-- Tom Rathborne
Does AOL own the copyrights to Mozilla? If so, it could be dangerous when UCITA becomes law. AOL has a philosophy of leveraging everything for promotion and advertising. You've already seen the "Shop" button in Netscape 4.7 where the "Stop" button used to be, taking you to AOL's shopping portal. Future Netscapes are likely to do other things, such as download/run AOL ads.
The problem for AOL is that they have an open-source version (perhaps minus a few gimmicks) which is identical for features to Netscape only without their advertising/promotional code, leeching their already slight market share.
Conveniently enough, UCITA will allow copyright holders to relicence their code, invalidating prior licences. There will likely be a faction in AOL pushing to do this to Mozilla for practical business reasons. Once the open-source media hype dies down, their hand will be strengthened. If they get their way, posting Mozilla source code or binaries will become a copyright violation.
How are the other free browsers going?
Probably somewhere else on this thread already, but... There are a lot of reasons why Mozilla has custom widgets. The three most notable are: 1. Lack of a good cross-platform toolkit. Qt, maybe, but Mozilla needs to be real C++, not hackneyed C++. GTK? Windows port is still immature. Mozilla developers want 1 kit to worry about, not many. 2. Cross-platform standards. Motif is not GTK is not Qt is not Win32 is not (widget set). They all look different, and Mozilla's big thing (one of them) is that it looks the same everywhere. 3. No toolkit has all the widgets/features that the standards Mozilla implements wants, so they'd need to either add them, or write their own. As for skinning - the whole thing is XUL anyway, a combination of JavaScript and XML. Building around those two standards really makes them skinnable no matter what. (there are alternate chromes out there already, that are faster than the default one, and look nice - I use the OpenSource UI one). Simple bare-bones browser - compile it yourself, it's called `simplebrowser'. It comes with the nightly builds, but it doesn't work for me with them, you'll want the source. IIRC, it has back, forward, URL entry, and a gecko window. about as simple as you can get.
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
---
Yeah! Features like conformity with W3C standards. Who needs em?!?
---
Conforming to W3C standards is all well and good, but it'd be nice to have a halfway native UI. This is the main thing that is bugging me with Mozilla...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Then turn it off.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Nope, existing copyright law does just fine. Except for BSD or X licenses (where the point is actually that companies like MS _can_ use the code if they want), incorporation into a closed-source product would be in violation of the terms of the license.
As for proving that they've taken code, that's no easier to prove than for closed-source software, where your competitor may have managed to appropriate your source code through industrial espionage, or just snagging what had been a legal copy of the code floating around. You'd be suprised at how freely even the source code to Windows NT flows, especially at some educational institutions.
DNA just wants to be free...
That should at least allow you to access/stat files/subdirectories. Of course, if you don't have at least search on the subdirs and read on the file, you're still screwed.
... or is that netscape6 the one inside blind? ... in that case, I guess we're both right.
DNA just wants to be free...
For better or worse, Mozilla (at least in all the current builds) includes Mail, News and Composer. I don't really know where they got rid of 10Mb of program, but it wasn't by leaving those out.
Sam TH
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
True, but lots of linux distro's do this too. Slackware being the most recent example, but they certinly aren't the only ones.
I'm less sure about all the UI rewriting they did. It probably would have been better to use some cross-platform, Windows-like toolkit like wxWindows for the UI, at least for the first post 4.x release.
I"d much rather see software versioned by release year, or something like that...
Netscape 2000.1, netscape 2000.2 etc...
it'd make figuring out what version of what is really the newst and all that.
I'm not anal about version numbers either, but there are two things which make this case worth mentioning:
It's a simple fact that Mozilla itself referred to the upcoming version as 5.0. They only tried to change history just recently after getting ridiculed for skipping the version number. To accept their take on events in this situation, and to further go around and promote that version of history is either complete gullibility or pure intellectual dishonesty.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
there's also an, um, interesting little message that appears if you go to the URL "about:mozilla". It's been there in every version of netscape i've ever seen.
:)
if you don't happen to have a copy of netscape sitting around, i did a quick search and found a mirror here.
Fittingly enough, this little message is not in standard html. there's no <html></html>.. so although the Prophesy doesn't appear in Mozilla, and i doubt the AOL-owned netscape that's producing version 6 will care that much about tradition, if they DO add the about:mozilla egg, i hope they'll add the html tag as a kind of metaphorical sign that yes, for the first time, netscape _is_ actually thinking of "w3c-compilant" as a feature and not a bug.
Or even better, do it in XML.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
going from Pro/ENGINEER version 20.1 to Pro/ENGINEER 2000i to Pro/ENGINEER 2000i^2 (that's right, i-squared)
Uhrm, wouldn't that be Pro/ENGINEER -2000, then?
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
Marketing-ese Reality
NT 3.1
NT 3.5
NT 3.51
NT 4.0
NT 5.0/2000
Microsoft always seems to take about three product versions to get it right. Third times a charm, so no wonder Windows 2000/NT3 is finally palatable.
cpeterso
Unfortunately I can't remember which movie it was, although I've a vague feeling that it was a well-known movie in the action- or spy-type genre. Can anyone help me?
11.0010010000111111011010101000100010000101101000
1) Mozilla is the Opensource Software group. Netscape uses Mozilla's software (under the exact same lic as the rest of us) to produce Netscape. Netscape!=Mozilla.
2) Mozilla runs well on Linux.
3) It's a beta people. Buggy.... remember that.
Where did NT start at?
Version 3.1, because it had the same UI as Windows 3.1.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
the quick and dirty:
Netscape 6 is based Mozilla. Mozilla is a lot more than gecko (the rendering engine). Mozilla is also a new and improved networking library, an FE built out of a new XP UI language called XUL and javascript, a cross platform COM called XPCOM, and much more. Netscape is going to be using all of these technologies developed by mozilla.org. Netscape is going to be adding some of their own proprietary technology to the 6.0 release. They are adding AIM (but Aim's FE will be built out of mozilla's XUL though), they're adding Sun's JRE, security, they're adding Net2Phone, and Flash and some other stuff but basically if you just look at the base install (which you will be able to download seperately) then you have a mozilla M15 build with some stability tweaks.
Asa
(Sorry, I feel compelled to reply)
The set of natural numbers has always been countable, silly. I'm just waiting for the next AIM beta build (3.5.aleph_0, of course).
Flame me if you must.
For more information, click here.
I'm tired of the Micros~1 trolls stating that IE has already won the browser war when it doesn't run on linux.
Hey, I like IE 5.5. I hate windows, but if IE 5.5 were available for linux, (and didn't take up as much memory and run as slowly as IE on solaris....), I'd probably use it. A number of other slashdotters who hate having netscape coredumps take their mail/browser down would probably also use it.
So... Micros~1, please either just go ahead and release your port of IE for linux, or stop trying to tout your browser as being better than Netscape/mozilla.
You'll never get me to switch back to a Micros~1 OS, but you might get me to use a Micros~1 browser or mail client on linux if it was the best product available.
I'm sure that IE on linux would also advance the mozilla project and the net result would be better browsers for all.
c'mon -- I'd be willing to bet that IE for linux has existed for a long time internal to MS (it's just another port from win32 src with mainwin, after all... how hard is that?). How come daily builds of Windows 2001 are for sale on street corners in Asia, but nobody's leaked MSOffice for linux or IE for linux?
It is now actually integrated into the browser. In the launch panel (where the Composer, Mail, Newsgroups, Navigator icons are) there is a new icon for the messenger. It pops up a window that uses the Gecko widgets, so I assume the whole component is integrated (I never use AIM, so didn't go any further).
Daniel.
The JDK included with this beta version (Sun's JRE for Java2, from the about page in Netscape) takes 7.8MB alone. On top of that they have bundled a separate application called Net2Phone that must take up at least a meg or two. In total the download was 13.xMB, so the actual browser/mail/news client (compressed) takes around 5-6MB.
Daniel.
Get it while you can :)
t scapeSetup.exe
ftp://lvftp.netscape.com/pub/blind/netscape6/Ne
(deliberately not hyperlinked)
I'm guessing the linux version is in that directory too, you'll just have to figure out the filename.
I was correct in my assumption - once I got the sidebar preferences program to work correctly and not crash I found that there was indeed 3 dummy entries in the sidebar, one of which was a link to the entire browser itself. This was an abuse of XML - this recursive activity has to be checked for otherwise we will soon start to see our first Netscape 6 Viruses (they will occur anyway) that simply use XML to define something that shows itself inside itself, or shows a Netscape inside itself. Having removed the 3 offending entries, everything works fine and is stable as a table with 50 equispaced legs (of equal length). No wonder Netscape was thrashing though - it must have been loading itself hundreds of times on startup. Nasty.
It has found my IE bookmarks, god bless the little thing. I am very impressed now, but Netscape had better fix the one thing that cacked it up for me, because other people might not be so tolerant.
That sidebar is damned handy, and usable. This might be it - bye bye IE5.
So whoever said it was 5.5Mb was lying - but this is a beta and it might include debug symbols and the like. Now at 6.6Mb
Oh, the URL can be found on Betanews, the one with lvftp.netscape.com in it. 7.1Mb now.
I will post a usability report soon.
Has anyone used that Slashdot headline thing yet? Is it worth having, so you can be on the train, with a two hour journey to the nearest computer you have access to, just to know that you have missed out on a great informative first post?
Run it.
Wow! how many GPFs did that generate! All to do with WinOldApp.DLL or summat as well. Powercycle machine (only way - it died truly - PII 400 w/ 128Meg)
Reboot. Run it. Thrash thrash thrash, window pops up as before, GUI etc, thrash thrash. Nothing works though, so this comment is not powered by Netscape 6 as I would have hoped. That NetPhone thing is annoying as well.
So this post is powered by Netscape 6. But it is refusing advertising for some reason, and popping up windows saying "Connection refused: blah"... at least it isn't IE5, which blanks the display and brings up that damned awful error page.
THe resize works perfectly, even with complex tables - no more reload, real time update of the window internals.
Renders Slashdot fine. Looks like Mozilla. GUI is a bit dull - can someone do an Aqua theme for it? Oh, this is build 2000032306 so it is 6 days out of date from the latest Mozilla build - what has been gained in those 6 days?
I like the new icon for Netscape as well - the border looks quite classy. No to play with the preferences and see what I can do.
5.5Mb is a much nicer download than the 16-20Mb downloads that were common with the old version. I wonder if this is just because of the cruft free code or if they have left out other components, such as the crap and useless Netscape Composer package?
Slashdot headlines to your mobile phone: HERE
"Shift-Insert" is, of course, the default insert command on all Windows programs, making switching back and forth a pain in the ass.
No program should lock entirely because of a single keystroke.
The cake is a pie
I really wish software companies would worry more about stability and less about cool new features.
The cake is a pie
BetaNews had posted a link last night to a Netscape site where N6 Preview 1 could be downloaded, but Netscape caught wind of it and pulled the files. Oddly, BetaNews also deleted the discussion of N6 (not exactly what I look for in a discussion site). Based on reviews by some people who managed to grab it before it was pulled, the download is 16 megs and is akin to a Netscape-branded nightly Mozilla build with a spell checker and Netscape-branded AIM built in.
Subject: NETSCAPE 6 FAQ
...
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:10:10 -0600
From: Jay Garcia
Organization: http://www.GatewayNO.com
Newsgroups: netscape.communicator
Followup-To: dev.nul
There have been several press releases indicating that Netscape will be
releasing the first public beta of "Netscape 6".
Q: What will it be called
A: More than likely "Netscape 6 Beta1"
Q: When will it be released
A: Within the next 25 days according to the press releases
Q: C'mon, when WILL it be released
A: See the previous question
Q: Will there be special newsgroups for this release
A: Yes, there will. We will announce the names of the groups when
they are created
Q: Can we post questions concerning the new release in N.Communicator
A: Yes, you can but you will be redirected to one of the new groups
Q: When can we start posting questions about the new release
A: As soon as it is released at which time the new groups will have been
created
Q: Will this be a "full-featured" beta
A: No, it will not. Some features will be disabled
Q: Can anybody download and run the beta
A: Yes
Q: Where can I download it
A: There will be an announcement as to the availablity and the sites for
downloading
Q: Is this "Netscape 6" just another Communicator
A: No, it is a totally new application
Q: Can I see what it looks like now
A: Yes, it is based on the Mozilla Builds
http://www.mozilla.org
http://www.mozillazine.org
Q: Will Communicator still be available
A: Yes, there will be continuing maintenance releases for the time being
Q: How long will the new Netscape be in "beta"
A: That depends on how many users are actively running it and reporting
bugs
Q: How do I report bugs
A: An announcement will be made when the beta is released as to the
various feedback links and bug report form links, etc.
Q: Will it be a "kick-butt" application
A: You betcha
Q: How do you know this
A: Because we have been running the Mozilla builds for quite some time
and we can see the potential in this new offering
Q: Can I post a reply to this article with more questions
A: Please don't as there are several places on the web to get more info
and we need to keep THIS group uncluttered so that we can reply to
Communicator related issues. THANKS
Q: In your opinion what is the "neatest" feature in Netscape 6
A: Well, I can't divulge any 'features' in NS 6 but I can tell you that
the Mozilla Build has one. "Accept images that come from the originating
server only"
Q: Any other features that are "neat"
A: In Mozilla you can configure more than one POP account without having
to create more profiles
Q: Have there been any delays in shipping the NS 6 Beta
A: Not that I know of, still on schedule, stay tuned
Q: It's being reported that the release will be April 5th, is that true
A: Could be
Q: You mentioned that it will lack some features, which ones
A: Can't say, but this is only BETA1 and a lot of future features will
be disabled for now
Q: If these so-called "features" are FEATURES then why are they DISABLED!!!!
A: Simply because they are still in various stages of development
Q: When will these disabled features be AVAILABLE
A: As soon as the module owner (developer) has debugged all the code and
it works
Q: Can I get excited or do I have to chill out
A: BOTH !!
Jay Garcia
Netscape Champion
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The real reason (or at least one of the real reasons) that this is Netscape 6 and not 5 is that the beginnings of Netscape 5 actually existed.
No. The real reason why this is Netscape 6 and not Netscape 5 is to beat MS at the version number game.
Actually, you post could be closer to the truth than you think. The other day, MSFT finaly released IE 5 for Mac. At the heart of this release is the Tasman rendering engine. I am currently posting from MacIE 5 as it is a far better browser than Netscape 4.7 (I sure hope mozilla is as good). As far as I can tell tasman is a lot like gecko in rendering. According to MSFT's web page this is an entirely new rendering engine over 1.5 years in the making and released first for Mac. I don't know what to believe but this could be possible, test it out on the Mac and then release IE 6 with the full blown less buggy version.
I wouldn't doubt it if MS has copied gecko and are about to incorporate it into IE 5.5/6.
This is a big issue for OSS projects. If you get a good one going. MS (insert evil closed source company) can copy the fruits of your labor and incorporate it into their monopoly continuing software. And you can't stop them or prove that they did it (without some new laws).
no sig.
Has anyone noticed a weird thing ? they say that the compressed file will have 5.5 M (compared to 15M the current version). What does this mean ? Are they stripping a lot of functionalities out of it ? have they given up some more or less useless components (e.g the radio part) ? ... Will they support it ? (most likely, though, since they mention cross-platform compatibility).
Will it be linked to some libraries that come with the OS ? If so, which OS ? Windows perhaps ?
Linux is not mentioned at all
As far as I am concerned, I hope that smaller size means less bugs (although we have the perfect example of M$-DOS 1.0- some 300 bugs in 5000 lines of code - great job breeding them guys).
Anyways, I surely hope it will have less bugs than the current version.
It was not meant to be funny. It was true. But this is also the same lawyer that kept trying to argue in support that software engineers use the keyboard only 20% of the time.
Fight Spammers!
During one of my three days of deposition with them, they asked me what is Mozilla, since they saw that in some of the emails. My attorney explained it to them.
My attorney is a geek too.
Fight Spammers!
Maybe it's some sort of newfangled reverse-branding strategy.
Ways to get your host's attention: uploading the prerelease I grabbed from Betanews last night to my website:
e tup.exe
ftp://ftp.atthat.com/pub/getslashdotted/NetscapeS
It's the Win32 version w/ installer.
The real reason (or at least one of the real reasons) that this is Netscape 6 and not 5 is that the beginnings of Netscape 5 actually existed. This is what was origianlly handed over to mozilla.org. Then it was decided (after a lot of work had been done) that it would be better to start from scratch. Therefore, Netscape 5 died before the public at large ever saw it, and the current mozilla product is version 6.
Sam TH
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
And I don't understand why that is a bad thing. Everyone does it. Most people who are using computers today are dumb enough to equate higher version number with better software. MS knows this, heck they practually invented the concept of version inflation. Where did NT start at?
If it convinces the casual user that Netscape is better, more power too them. They will have beated MS at it's own game.
Finkployd
Redmond, Washington: In a surprise move, Microsoft today announced that it would make available a preview release of its new web browser and that it would feature the so-called "Gecko" technology.
"We kept hearing about this Gecko thing," said Ben Dover, Microsoft Spokesperson. "We had no choice but to include it ourselves, with some minor modifications."
When asked to elaborate, Dover explained, "Well, we felt that as good as Gecko was, it couldn't hurt to fix some 'bugs.' So we fooled around with it for a while. When we were done, we realized that nothing worked any more. But we had to have Gecko. Because we lacked in-house talent to do it correctly, we eventually just renamed MSHTML.DLL to GECKO.DLL. All better now!"
Dover went on to explain that the new browser would be a svelte 55 MB download. When reminded that the new Netscape browser was a mere 5.5 MB, Dover responded, "Hey, you get what you download. The Microsoft browser is obviously ten times better."
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
Somehow, someone leaked the location of the netscape-branded pre-beta builds of Mozilla/Netscape 6 on tuesday. Thanks to an alert friend, I got a copy before they pulled it, both of the Windows and Linux builds.
It looks pretty much the same as mozilla, except it has a really cool new Netscape animation in the upper right corner there (what is the standard nomenclature for that anyhow?). Also, the win32 builds have that annoying blotchy toolbar bug.
On a Pentium 300mhz with 64mb RAM, it seemed pretty responsive, more so than the mozilla nightly builds. The layout is a lot faster than Netscape 4.x.
Based on my experience with the Windows and Linux versions, I think this browser will be at least as fast as IE 5. I think, however, that if they had skipped the skinnable custom-widget idea, the browser would be faster and much more reliable. Personally, I'd like to see someone just yank the Gecko engine and put it in a simple, bare-bones browser.
-JD
Terminology: In Mozilla-speak, chrome is a package which changes the XUL that defines the interface for Mozilla. Chrome changes not just the look but also the feel and even the functionality of the browser. Within just one chrome package, however, users will also be able to use skins, which in Mozilla refer to packages which simply change the look of the widgets.
The chrome that Mozilla has been using since around milestone 12 is chrome that was designed by Netscape for Communicator 6. Hence Communicator 6 will look much like M14.
Mozilla developers have assured us that the grey strip under the buttons will go away. (There's even a bugzilla entry for it.)
In any case, it is likely that once the skinnability support in mozilla has settled down, the open-source mozilla browser will begin using a distinct skin, separate from the netscape skin. The following was posted to netscape.public.mozilla.ui by Matthew Thomas:
But skinnability is also going to be fixed by Ben during the chrome cleanup after beta 1 (go, Ben!), and Mozilla will be able to start using its own default skin distinct from the one used in Netscape. And that, in my humble opinion, can't come a moment too soon.
For now, you can download new chrome to use with M14 or with the latest nightlies at mozillazine's chromeZone.
Damn it Dave, Install me. You know you want to!
Fight Spammers!
Mozilla.org still has pages on its own site referring to the upcoming release (the one with the Gecko engine) as being version 5.0. Since they themselves weren't referring to the version they dumped as Netscape 5, your explanation is just an exercise in revisionist history. Everybody knows the real reason why it's version 6 -- to make it sound better than IE5 -- so please quit trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes on this.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Okay, question from a non-programmer, here, so be gentle :-)
How much of NS 6 is mozilla.org's work? The article makes it sound like "Gecko" is a single defined unit within NS6, and it is that part which mozilla.org contributed. Though from reading /. and mozilla.org, I have the impression that the mozilla project touched on just about every part of the browser.
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<sig>Guvf vf abg n frperg zrffntr
At least AOL didn't opt to name it Netscape2000
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Jedi-Bene Gesserit
"Teachers leave us kids alone
A couple of other things about the install I forgot to point out:
:(
(as I mentioned earlier) Sun's JRE for Java 2 is included. This takes up 7.8MB by itself, so the 5.5MB figure quoted in the article is for the browser itself.
The browser comes with the Shockwave/Flash plug-in.
The installation procedure (at this stage) does not let you choose which Netscape components you want to install (ie you can't leave out the integrated parts, like the instant messenger, the mailer, the newsreader and the composer).
The AIM buddy list is one of the sidebar tabs now, along with (dysfunctional) newsfeeds from cnn.coma and reuters, and stocks.
There is no theme selector in the preferences panel. I hear latest Mozilla snapshots do have a functional theme selector built-in.
The URL about:mozilla doesn't do anything
The back and forward buttons don't have a drop down history list (it's back to using the Go menu a la Netscape 3.0) I'm sure this will be implemented though, as it is in IE5.
PS: It's interesting that they've dropped the "Communicator" title too.
Here's the catch. Netscape 6 is a browser that is built on Mozilla. Mozilla is the Open Source browser we all have been following for a long time. Now, Netscape took Mozilla and made another product based on it. That's Netscape 6.
People should realise that *anyone* can take the Mozilla source code, hack it and release an own version. So Mozilla continues to live well.
Someone pointed out that the beta will have AIM and some other AOL's braindead ideas. Remember that you don't have to use Netscape 6. Just download Mozilla and use it.
But I don't think Mozilla/Netscape 6 is ready yet for a beta version. It certainly is already useable and I do use it most of the time but still I'd like it to be a bit better before hitting the beta stage. And it should have automatic URL completion which I'm missing badly.
Soon Word 3 and Netscape 5 and IPv5 will all be reclaimed, as part of a national cardinal-recycling program.
It installed relatively painlessly with InstallShield (no restart required).
The cool stuff is it includes a Java 2 virtual machine licensed from Sun. I've tried a few java enabled pages today, and everything's worked fine on this relatively slow computer, at a comparable rate to MS's virtual machine.
SSL is enabled, so on-line shopping works well. The widgets don't feel nearly as "glitchy", especially the side toolbar. Dialogs are cleaner and closer to Netscape 4.7's. Page updates are as fast as recent Mozilla snapshots, if not more so, and easily comparable to IE5 on the same machine. Rendering speed is (subjectively) up there with Opera. And the new Netscape throbber really kicks ass. The memory footprint seems to be much smaller too, because I'm able to open a few windows without the usual disk grinding I had before.
The bad stuff - they still haven't fixed the button placement in the top toolbar. Grrrr...this is really ugly (but functionally irrelevant I should point out). No URL auto-completion. AOL have bundled some crappy Net2Phone application, and built in AIM to the browser. If these had been left out, I'm sure the 13MB download size would be significantly reduced (ie the bloat is not appreciated). And while I don't mind the general look of the Gecko widgets, I think the flat grey menus need at least a little sprucing up.
BTW, I'm not complaining. I actually used Communicator 4.x betas, so I realise that a lot of the final functionality will be fixed for the final release. It's disappointing the number of people who complain that Mozilla is unstable and not feature-complete. Well duh, it's a pre-release isn't it? The other frequent comment that bugs me is "Why Netscape 6 and not 5?" Well to the average consumer (and bear in mind Netscape is being produced by AOL for consumption by their user base, as the inclusion of the AIM messenger attests) version numbers are as good a way as any to compare software packages. Psychologically, a Netscape 5 release would imply a lagging of technology, considering IE5.5 is just around the corner. It's pretty obvious to me that this is a case of keeping up with the Jones's.
I should also warn to be wary of downloading this from the link at betanews because it appeared to link to a 4.7 release of Communicator. Use the direct link at arstechnica instead (if it's still up).
Cheers,
(posted with Netscape 6.0 Preview Release 1 :)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."