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Pay Lars
adimarco writes: "According to this article at Wired, a San Francisco company started paylars.com in response to Metallica's recent lawsuit against the music industry, their fans, and Napster. Major credit cards are accepted, and donations will be sent to the band. " This cracks me up.
they should get their money from RIAA and recording industry.
Glad somebody called Metallica on their actions. I can't say how disappointed I am at Metallica, a band I had once imagined to be probably the least corporate band in the U.S., taking this stand.
But I guess with the greatest hits albums, b-side collections, symphony appearances, I really shouldn't have been all that surprised.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
Soon you will be able to go to payrandombit.com and give me lots of money. Why would you want to do that? Because you should feel guilty! Hell, you're willing to pay Metallica and they already have tons of money! I'm a poor college student!
Just so no one gets the wrong impression: I do feel that copyrights need to be respected.
--
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
You know I was considering buying their boxed set.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
Of course, you know that if you start a site and get enough publicity, you'll get suckers.. after all, there's a donator born every minute.. :P I suppose anyone can start a site and immediately get some donations.. still, it's quite insane, if you ask me. "Oh no! It's.... NAPSTER!! The ULTIMATE evil! It allows people to distribute our MP3's! Off our OVERPRICED cds that cost us a whopping 50 cents to make (and that's an over estimate) that we turn around and sell for upwards of 15 dollars!" Does no one but me see the insanity here?
-=-
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my pants.
You people should stick to hip-hop. You don't see any of them trying to dick napster.
Dr. Dre also sued Napster this week. Which probably means that any acts he produces (Eminem?) won't be far behind.
I'd be tempted to do that, at least for their older stuff. Metallica used to be a really cool band, with some good messages. (believe it or not; some people don't know how to listen to the words)
Nowadays, though, their music was just crappy. I remember when they started trying to make a comeback, and I saw them on TV doing another video of "Enter Sandman", and I was like, "That's not bad, but it's not Metallica!". Imagine my surprise when I found out it was, but that they just started sucking. Not too long after that, Load came out, and then they started playing it on the pop music stations...
After that, and this record company pandering, I've lost respect for them. I'd be happy to pay the old Metallica for their music, probably more than they got paid in the first place. But I'd be paying for "Metallica", "And Justice For All", and basically everything but the new stuff...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
You people should stick to hip-hop. You don't see any of them trying to dick napster.
Well, on the Rap scene Dr. Dre is screeming bloody murder. His lawyers wrote a letter to napster demanding that they remove all of his music from thier databases. As if they have any control over that.
--GnrcMan--
then if someone steals something, such as your car, you have no RIGHT to be angry, because it isn't his fault....it was a piece of shit anyway....
Artists have rights too...
Ever here of Dr. Dre?
Hip Hop just as money grubbing if not more.
Venyce
remove all references to 007 to email me
...and it's running MS!
surprise, surprise!
After this, the rest of the band is going to go balistic, screaming out about how Lars is going to get all the profits...
The ensuing battles might be enough to tear Metallica apart... (not that it matters anymore......)
I'm a 21st century digital boy.
I don't know how to read, but I got a lot of toys.
I can't help it that you're stupid enough to listen to me! I'm an idiot!
-- einstein (slashdot user 10761)
Lars used to be a big-time rock star. Now his Rolls-Royce has been repossessed and his drug dealer will not front him any blow. There are hundreds of rock stars like Lars. Won't you find it in your heart to help just one needy rock star? If you don't help, Lars may have to get a real job.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Can you say, coolio vs. wierd al?
hehe, enuff generalization already
...isn't it? Or should Lars & Friends be paid to SHUT UP instead of making a few kick ass guitar riffs??
"Some people see things as they are, and ask why. I dream things that never were, and ask why not."
I think this is a great idea. My friends and I, if we can get their address, will download all of a band's songs and then send them a check. It's really not fair that we steal their songs and they get no money, and by me sending them a check for $10 for 2 cds worth of songs, I would imagine that the band makes more off my $10 then they do off 2 CDs.
"I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"
If I steal your car, you no longer have that car. A fair comparison would be me obtaining a replication machine, and you lending me your car so that I could create an identical copy of it.
--
hahahah that's so funny, a fund to pay pooor the metallica lusers for all that money they lost from mp3's.
i especially enjoyed reading how Q1/2000 has had a greater increase in sales than the last several Q1 increases. mega-profits all around.
here's an idea: maybe the DOJ should find every prisoner or criminal with a metallica-related tattoo, or is willing to sign that metallica influenced their urge to commit crimes, and then sue Metallica under the RICO statues for:
1) Recover the cost of incarceration;
2) Recover lost tax revenue over the life of the unproductive citizen;
3) Establish a retirement fund for a "Metallica Druggies/Losers/Sluts Rest Home" so they aren't a drain on the social security fund;
Furthermore, anytime USA law enforement gets a call on noise complaints, the offender's music collection is seized, and the artists similarly sued under RICO for disturbing the peace.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
/ k.d / earth trickle / Monkeys vs. Robots Films /
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
How long till someone hacks this site? Hmm.. excepts visa/mastercard how convenient!
This situation is more or less along the lines of... "Hey! Give us your credit card number so we can track you, then investigate you since your obviously only donating because you feel guilty about the fact you possess several peices of pirate music by (insert unnamed band here).".. Hopefully the RIAA dosen't just decide to buy this company so it has all the credit card information to start investigating people. Wouldn't phase me in the slightest.
--- 'dex
Oh come off of it, we all know that trading Mp3s is just as bad as pirating software, when looked at legally. Why do we complain so much about Napster? I have it, but most of the tunes I have gotten off of it have been ones that I already own...on a media that I cannot transfer to my PC, i.e. record. Any songs that I don't own that I download, are just sort of a listen before you buy sort of deal, then if I like it I'll go out to a local store, such as a Circuit City, or other similar place where they sell the cd's for about $9-12. So please pike it with the complaints about how "unfair" it is that Napster is being sued, if you were an artist you would want every single fucking penny, too!
You know, I think we need to launch a campaign .. www.feedthempaa.com, maybe. Put all the artists who *didn't* get a contract and/or have been screwed over by the MPAA. They want to persuade the public that they're all peachy and all the great music will just vanish if it wasn't for them. Let's make it a point to prove to the public that the MPAA has been making music vanish for DECADES.
--
All music should be freely available for download, and it should be as easy as possible to pay for the ones you like. Some sort of proxy site would be best (go there, pay $20, and divide that money up among the artists you want to reimburse).
You have to accept the fact that music is easy to distribute and you can't stop it. People will gravitate towards the most free/open solution, and not all of them will pay money for it. Get over it, and make it easy for the ones that will pay.
alright...lety's say I use your GNU software in my closed source program...and sell it...
its a duplicate, You wouldn't lose anything
HTTP 403.15 - Forbidden: Client Access Licenses exceeded
Internet Information Services
Technical Information (for support personnel)
The server you are attempting to access has exceeded its Client Access License limit.
Microsoft Support
CAN I MAIL IN .02$ to him ?
"It is therefore sickening to know that our art is being traded like a commodity rather than the art that it is."
- Lars Ulrich,
Metallica Drummer
ART ----- yeah and we are trading art... so by not putting a price on the music we CANNOT be making it a commodity. I have always had a lot of respect for Metallica, they have been through a lot, but this makes me sick! BY THE WAY LARS, I heard SandM on MP3's and then went ahead and bought the CD... cause i like the art (from MP3's) and bought the COMMODITY for $20 from some CD place....
Well its not that long ago that Metallica was a band that just a few of the hardcore Metal Fans would listen too... Bon Jovi and others like then were the taste of everyone else.... Now i remember when they came out with Garage days i had a copy of it, and some cool undergrounhd shit that was really really good... and i had made caassette copies for my friends to get them to hear how cool Metallica was!... Now you freaking stop that. i mean common dude, we have been passing music about for years! that was the whole freaking reason to have a two tape player.. so you could have your friends enjoy music as well!!
Now that you can do it a bit more long distance and easy you stomp on it!!!
This sucks really, cause then they were probably glad to see us "distribute" their art.. now when the same is being done, but they are famous enough, they are goinng to go after their fans! LARS grow the F. up and change your statement, it sounds dumb as hell and of all bands I would hope Metallica would not be one to do this shit! I have been a fan for years.... this is making it tough!!!
HOW many Metallica fans did not copy Tapes back in the day when they were coming out with Kill'em All and Master of Puppets ? I dont like Napster too much myself cause it kills campus bandwith making surfing the web a pain... but this still sucks worse...
Non-Deterministic Finite Automata
How can Metallica lose money to mp3's? I thought they all died in a plane crash with Buddy Holly or something. Like anyone stills listens to Metallica.
I mean really...If you like the music, buy the cd. Since I can't find any places in here where i can listen to the music (the whole damn cd if i please) before i buy it.
Metallica really lost their "badass" image by doing this. Now they are money worshiping corporate whores. (not that they were before, its just super obvious now)
But hey, the RIAA will stop mp3's. There will not be 1 mp3 on earth when the RIAA regulates. (not)Seriously it will happen.
It just pisses me off.
Bands only make like 50 CENTS for each albulm they sell and they say the public is stealing money from them? BAH its the record companies stupid.
CD's were more expensive at first because "they cost more to make than tapes". If they ever were, they sure aren't now and they still cost around $15 bucks. Give the artists the profits they deserve and let us listen to shit before we spend $15 bucks on it, and lower the damn prices and maybe people will take this "losing money" whiny bullshit more seriously.
I've ranted enough.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Netscape used one of their album names on the control bar, so wouldn't they be running the risk of a lawsuit?
Yale backs down in this story with the headline: "Yale drops Napster, Metallica drops case against school".
___
Well, Napster could provide some sort of "opt-out" service that would prevent their servers from allowing requests which include $string1 in the artist field and $string2 in the title field, where $string1 is a trademarked band name and $string2 is a copyrighted song title. You own the trademark, you're responsible for policing it, and if Napster made it simple to do so, you'd see tons of copyrighted material disappear nearly instantly.
I'm not saying it's a good idea, or that I'd want it, but they do have some technical things they could do if they really had to. The simple thought above would really suck in practice, of course, because $string1=tolower("Dre") and $string2=tolower("Day") would eliminate lots of potential free (beer) music that the artists would love to have traded on Napster.
Oh well, just a thought...
From the Napster Website:
Imagine...an application that takes the hassle out of searching for MP3s. No more broken links, no more slow downloads, and no more busy, disorganized FTP sites. With Napster, you can locate and download your favorite music in MP3 format from one convenient, easy-to-use interface.
Come On! Websites that carry mp3s are guaranteed to have porn and warez banners tagging along. FTP sites are NOT how the recording artists envisioned their music being distributed. It seems to me that Napster is saying "Hey! Instead of getting frustrated with all of those *unreliable* illegal sources, we have your #1 RELIABLE illegal source!"
Sorry folks, but not all copyrights are bad. Everyone is saying something to the effect of "Hey, these guys are making TONS of money!" "I'd buy CDs if they weren't so overpriced!"
The first quote implies that because the artist made a lot of money, that gives the person the right to steal copyrighted material. Please...That's self interest bullshit.
The second quote is amazingly stupid. People buy CDs because they enjoy the music on them. They are purchasing the CD and in turn, showing support for the artist who recorded it. $15 is not a lot to spend on music you can freely listen to whenever you want, and wherever you want. (And for those of you who buy full albums for ONE song then turn around and complain.....STOP COMPLAINING. Head over to the CD Singles rack, and buy the song you like for $2.99. If that's too much to spend, listen to the radio.)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
PAYLARS.COM has given the record industry the perfect model. The ability to buy individual songs and not a crappy album with two good songs and eight worthless ones. I know, PAYLARS.COM is not selling music, but if you browse the site, just looking at how it is arranged is great. Imagine a Sony website where you could buy the entire an artist's entire CD on MP3 or just click selection boxes and buy songs individually.
I think the record industry should take note.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Oh, Lars's definition is probably this:
Art - something that is sold to benefit the 'artist'.
Commodity - Something that is bought, sold, traded with no royalty or any kind of payment to the 'artist'.
Someone tell the museums around the world that they aren't hanging art (esp. of the dead artists), but 'commodity'
Let me rephrase.
The RIAA have rights too...
Ok I admit it was a jab but the fact of the matter is the artists don't see very much money, if they see any at all, from the record sales. I am not saying that to justify getting MP3's that you haven't paid for, as in buying the CD or if it ever becomes avaliable, paying for the download. Downloading MP3's illegally if it hurts anyone, it is the RIAA. Metallica has a pretty loyal fan base. If they sold MP3's over a websight, they could easily pull in millions. If they sold 3 or 4 never before heard tunes on MP3 on a website for fans to pay for, selling them for $.25 each, assuming that 4 million fans pay(which is very doable considering their sales) they would get $3 million just from that alone. For just 3 songs! For 4 million sales of their album how much do they see after the RIAA takes their cut?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
that this site is run by the same folks who bring you Orange Alley -- "the site that pays you to bootleg"?
Just junk food for thought...
I've often felt that this is how music money should be handled. Take Ani Difranco, for example. most of her CDs are $25+ Canadian - far more than I could afford. I'd be happy to cut her a check for however-much-she-actually-profits plus a bit for each CD. I don't care about the CD insert, the jewel case, i care about the music. I have a fair number of mp3s, a lot of them are legal (as I understand, because I own CDs for most of them.) And I'd be happy to do a "Pay Lars" for some other bands. Happier, in fact.
It's too bad that most bands have signed with labels that would never let them get away with it, but if I had any musical talent that people liked, I would certainly grant people the right-to-listen to my music at $1 / song. More profitable, more pure.
I suppose that's something along the lines of what mp3.com is trying to do, but from what I understand, it's not as pure.
-Rob Ewaschuk
This is a model where the artists really *could* get payed. If every band set up a site, and said "pay us $5 for every album's worth of music that you download", and everyone who would have bought the disc downloads it and pays for it, the musicians would make more money per CD than they would through the record companies.
Getting people to respect an honor system like that is going to be tough though.
Ok, looks like I'm going to have to spell it out for the majority of posters.
It's a stunt. No this is not set up so that Metallica "can get the money they deserve" or anything like that.
Paying here does not legally give you any rights (besides fair use) to copy their music. At the same time, it is not an admission of guilt.
Read the fine print, and follow the other links on the site. The Point(TM) is that it is so easy to download music and make online payments, yet the industry has not set up any way for people to legitimately download and pay for music. By setting up this site, he is trying to prove that any moron can set up a payment system for music.
At the same time, with its juxtoposition of Credit Cards and Lars' quotes, it really drives home the irony that (as someone else has metioned), if it is traded freely it's "a commodity" but if you pay for it then it's "art."
Signed,
a former Metallica fan.
--
Bands don't make much money when it comes to album sales. Many bands owe the record company money if there album sales are not in the millions and millions. Infact, a band will not make money off their album sales until their 2nd or 3rd really successful album.
So where do they make their money? Concerts. There is a reason that bands do 250+ shows in a year. Same crap night in and night out. There is a reason you pay $40+ to see a band. If the band does not own their own label, they are getting screwed. Even the big names get screwed, and there is a reason they all own their own labels.
Linux O Muerte!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Well, I clicked on "start here" just for shits and giggles. They have a list of their albums and what they're charging per album ($8-$14). it's probably pro-rated then, depending on how many songs you want. I clicked on "calculate total" after checking a random song, and it said (in Netscape) "This Page cannot be displayed - there are too many people accessing the website at this time." Then another error "HTTP 403.15 Forbidden - Client access licenses exceeded, Internet Information Services" - "Technical information, background - the server you are attempting to access has exceeded its Client Access license limit - More Information: Microsoft Support"
I think that they should be AT LEAST using linux if they want our support... no client access license limitations there!!
Oh well... it would've been kind of interesting to see how much money they've made from this venture. I wonder if a lot of Slashdotters are accessing the page, and donating 50c just to say they're Kool and did it.
I'm also wondering if they're not overcharging on their website. I mean, does the band REALLY get $14 for a CD? And here, we're not even getting CD quality, we're getting mp3's with no media, no pretty pictures in the CD cover, no nothing.
geez.
Through all this, the one question I keep asking is: where does this stop? Are they going to sue Lycos for having a search engine capable of find Metallica MP3's? Maybe they should go all the way back and sue the original designers of ARPANET. Without it this never would have happened!
sig this
I think there's a misconception among a great many professional musicians that an artist who sells maybe 500,000 copies of an album should be able to:
1. Live like rock stars did in the '70s (e.g. large mansions, limousines everywhere, their own LearJet, a steady supply of cocaine, etc.).
2. Play venues that hold more people than can be found in the artist's hometown.
I remember the Salon article on musicians' anger toward Napster and MP3 in general, on the grounds of "How are we supposed to make money? Selling T-shirts? I'm already in debt!" My response is, "Well, what did you spend your money on?" I think the happiest musicians are the ones who are comfortable living at their level of income, whereas many live far, far above their actual means.
I think it's a major delusion on artists' part that a person who generates perhaps $10 million in revenue for a company should be entitled to all of it. You signed the contract, you take the consequences. Do salesmen who generate that much revenue for their company expect to be able to live like kings? Does a professional programmer expect to be given $5 million a year for a project
Artists should be compensated for their work. Artists should be able to own their publishing and recording copyrights. However, living the life of a "rock star" is an artist's privilege, not his/her right.
"Even genius needs a competent technique."--Robert Fripp
Hush little baby,
:)
don't say a word,
and never mind that voice you heard
it's just the beast under your bed,
in your closet in your head!
Exit Light! Enter Night!
I think you see my point
That site is missing the Metallica "Black Album" (the one with "Enter Sandman").
Is this because the album's so bad no one is pirating it?
Apparently paylars.com doesn't follow the same editorial thoughts as its "parent site", www.orangealley.com
You must be kidding me. I hope this site gets 0wn3d very soon. I have my own way of supporting Metallica... I have every one of their CDs, and I'm always there when they go on tour. They've got more money than they can spend right now. Every CD goes platnum, so why do they care if people trade MP3s of their songs? If anything that promotes sales by having a sort of "try before you buy" system! What am I supposed to do? Go out and buy every album my friends say has a good song on it only to find out that I think it sucks?
Thats all I have to say about that...
--
#nohup cat
is it just me or does this site just reiterate that lars is a whining baby..i'm sure all he does when he drives around in his new boxster is worry about how much money net pirates are taking from him. maybe he'll trip down the stairs to his huge house..that would give him something to worry about.
--
|-_-| . o O ( bEef!)
Ok, so they're trying to say that Metallica band members are so goddamn broke that their fans had to devise a charity to help them? Umm, I dont think so... It is a well known fact that celebrities of that class could raise all kinds of money... e.g. commercial product endorsement. it would be cute to see Lars advertising Johnson & Johnson's new "Metallic" baby powder ;)
Besides, Metallica albums are still sold at a decent rate, and the band members are getting a good chunk of the profits...
All the band members are quite well off. I'm sure none of them are even close to starving, and the fact that they complain about losing so much because of music pirating on the net just proves how commercial the band has become. How much money is enough? I'm sure they still have plenty to not have to work for the rest of their lives.
If the fans had any common sense, they would encourage others to buy the damn albums, not to give away their fscking credit card numbers.
--- sig moved for great justice.
On average, the vast majority of bands break even, and do a little better. Most record companies take advances, costs, lawyers fees, and everything out of the performer's cut which is usually (and this is fairly high) 10 percent. AND THAT'S A HIGH ESTIMATE! - Furthermore, bands get the shaft on a lot of other things as well from the Record companies
However, I do think it's stupid that this fund is being created. If Metallica had set it up, there'd be room for flames all over the place. In this case, it's just an overzealous fan. I got the same kick when Bill "poor me" Clinton set up a defense fund so that we could help pay the President of the U.S. for exposing himself.
But the idea that we're going to be able to justify the theft of these ideas and products from the artist is just one more sign of how far downhill we've gone. PIRATING SOFTWARE IS ILLEGAL!! (go open source instead) - PIRATING MUSIC IS ILLEGAL!!! - Got that? Maybe the record companies should have found a better way to handle internet content, but just because they didn't doesn't now give you license to STEAL the work of an artist. Very simple. All musicians have a right to protect their work. If you can't handle it, get off the internet.
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
Metallica is not the only group of artists who have suffered grievous financial hardship and borderline privation due to the diabolical Napster client. Don't you think that other artists such as Sting, Janet Jackson and Oasis should also be recompensed for their losses?
Well, I do; that's why I created the paysting.com, payjanet.com and payoasis.com sites, to solicit money from all you stupid suckers^H^H^Hwonderful fans who only downloaded the MP3s in a moment of weakness. I have no affiliation whatsoever with the artists, their agents or their respective labels, but I promise all the proceeds will be handed over to the artists in full.
Honest.
(Translation: "I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet: what assurance does anybody have that the donations will actually reach Metallica at all?")
P.S. All major credit cards are accepted.
BH
Fools! They laughed at me at the Sorbonne...!
...is that Metallica used to have a special area set aside on their live tours where people could bring their recording devices (nothing professional, mind you) and TAPE THE ENTIRE CONCERT for FREE
Of course, back then it was so that people cood actually hear their concerts who might never get the chance, kinda like the Cliff 'em All tape they put together from fan footage of their early shows...
But I guess now that they have kids and wives (and ex wives) and stuff, the millions they are making is no longer enough to keep them warm at night... never mind that Kill 'em All is $16.00 at Sam Goody, Garage Days Re-Re-Re--visited is something like $20.00, they are just not able to make ends meet on their meager budgets... sniffle, whine, cry.
It's almost enough to make me miss Guns & Roses...
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103443/
Okay, I realize it's a moot point, but actually attempting to submit the songs over SSL and "Pay Lars" gives a 403.15 error, which is some sort of Microsoft incarnate HTTP error code saying that the server has run out of "licenses". It even comes with a pretty little link to where you can buy more on IE 5.0. Argh.. LICENSES? I now know the answer to a question I recieve quiet frequently from my less-technical-savvy friends and relatives ("How does Microsoft do it?") - by being greedy assholes. Someone oughta drop this guy a Redhat CD in the mail with a link to www.apache-ssl.org while they're at it.
--
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
If you want to listen to free music and not have the RIAAMPAAFBICIANSA get mad at you. . . Just sing in the shower!
Most Respectfully Yours Mark Allyn Bellingham, Washington
The problem is that there's no infrastructure on the 'net for micropayments (which is what you're talking about) that's reached a consensus enough to become a standard. and no end-user wants to have to deal with more than one micropayment scheme, so a single standard/company needs to exist (but we all know who we don't want that company to be...).
Yes, I wouldn't mind the ability to surf around, see headlines of stuff, and then plunk down a virtual quarter to see/hear/save the details, finally having all my quarters collectively charged to my credit card at the end of the month (or vice versa, i invest x number of quarters that are used up as i surf).
But the problem is that too many people out there still feel the web should be "free", so the only B2C architecture out there is the standard pay a large amount for a product which is shipped to you of normal e-commerce. When credit card transactions cost the processing company a minimum of 50cents to either visa or m.c. each, how do you justify using a credit card to pay a quarter?
The other hassle is that, again, once you've got it, what's to stop you from giving it to your friends? We're right back to the issue that napster's being bitten for in the first place.
Microsoft's Media includes encryption, which makes some companies happy (like DGM/BootlegTV), but that has the side effect of annoying/excluding the rather large Linux-only customer base. Few of the other companies out there are supporting such approaches. Most pay per view sites out there (www.hob.com) are now exclusively supporting Windows Media Player.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
Duh. "Napster is stealing"? You don't think the users might actually be the thieves, not the tool?
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
I bought "Ride The Lightning" "Enter Sandman" and "And Justice For All" CDs when I was in highschool.
They were then stolen from me a few years back (before MP3s came out). I was hard-presed to buy the CDs again, but I really like their music.
So, when MP3s came out, I still felt guilty for downloading music I already bought, but for me it was a saviour! I didn't have to PAY TWICE to get the songs I already enjoyed.
This is one (of many) advantages of MP3s.
The question is: Now That I have downloaded their songs, should I still send in a donation, since I should have technically bought their CDs again to enjoy the music, or was the music my property since I already purchased it a few years back?
How do I prove this? Receits? CC Info?
Now I'm confused.... back to Half Life...
This
When's the IPO?
--
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
No in the mass scheme of things $15 is not too much to spend. And as I shudder toward the ancient age of 30...I realize how damn few of these zit faced angst filled pseudohipsters and their 45-year old balding record executives willing to fuck 16 year olds are worthy of getting my 15 bucks.
29 and 11 months and I'm ready for LastDay. Not Judgement day, you dork...ah...go ask Logan...
The thing that pisses me off is that these freaks think they deserve absolute domain over their "art" until the end of creation. Balls. Corporations should get 10 years: patents, code, Mickey Mouse's image, I don't give a rat's ass. 10 years: then public domain. Individuals and their songs or writing: 20 years. Then that's it. I don't need Bob Dylan dragging his shriveled corpse before the Chief Subcommittee of Halfwits crying that he's being ripped off because his "artistic contributions" are being pirated online. Please. Two decades isn't long enough to milk tha honey pussy? You can't think of new ideas after 20 years? And as to those geeks (myself included) who might rage against someone putting out fake Star Wars or Trek dreck....who cares? Do you actually like the stories? Do you have the wit to find the sanctioned ones from DelRey and Lucas? Then do it. This corporate vampirism is ridiculous.
So yes Lars, you should get all your pretty money until..say...2002? Ride the Lightning was 83? I don't know...but as those 20 years roll by for each release....to the wolves they go. Never happen of course. Too many willing to milk those honey pussies. Ewww...and milking honey pussy IS a bad metaphor mix...
Well...guess I'll go write my check to Lars. Uh...not. Instead, I think I'll just mentally masturbate to Metallica's cover of that Danzig tune while imagining fucking Salma Hayek in the ass on top of Khufu's pyramid while my Imperial Star Destroyers vaporize herds of Republicans in the desert below. Better use of mental energy than worrying about how much Lars is being ripped off. I'll have to go buy that CD first...
Im sorry but ever sinse the death of that nifty bass player they once had, they have been in a donward spiral. Since they have been breaking new ground with their unique brand of hard rock country music, they have to sue Napster. Why you may ask? Since they sold out and became obsessed with making music for money, they cry at every penny they believe they lose when someone "pirates" an mp3. Since their ground breaking albums Load and Reload, they have broadened their musical horizon to new hights. I am pretty suer their next album will be titled Load of Crap!
I bought all the metallica 'tapes' that i like back in the day - in fact, i still have most of them.. and occationally listen to them. Any MP3's that show up on my hard drive would be from that era - and as far as im concerned - i paid my dues! (and i dont think they've put out anything good since BEFORE 'Justice for All' anyway.)
special thanks to anyone who ripped the mp3, and saved me the time of rippin if from tape (although it looks like i am gonna have to rip my Fugazi CD's You know - i looked at that paylars.com site - WOW, did anyone catch a gander at the logo? is that supposed to be an anarchy symbol? (right next to the dollar sign?) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH wtf! reminds me of a shirt i saw on some kid a while back - big honkin anarchy sigh - with a copyright/trademark (whatever the hell it was) symbol right next to it! gimme a break!
Don't even get me started on Metallica - whats next - payaxel.com?
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Strangely, my Dr. Dre .mp3s are just originals that I created which happen to sound exactly like the original musical tracks. >:-)
(I'm just kidding, of course. I don't own any Dr. Dre .mp3s)
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!"
But can you blame them? How dare someone write software that allows you to transfer files? Think they'll try to sue AOL for file transfers on IM? I trade MP3s with people that way sometimes. Seriously, if it wasn't Napster, people would just use something else. If they don't like what's going on with "their art being traded like a commodity" or whatever they make the situation out to be then maybe it's time they took their country-western metal (or whatever it's supposed to be now) and retire already.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
The recording industry could embrace streaming media, but they don't want to. And it is not about piracy either. It is about the real value of their product.
If you have visited mp3.com, you have seen that they removed the traditional barriers (who you know, who you blow) to entry in the music industry. You can put your music up there, and they will even market CD's for your band -- get this -- for about $7-$8 per disc is the consumer price. That is what the RIAA, and Metallica are fighting against. Educating the masses that they are paying too much for CD's. Sure, bands like metallica get some money out of the $15/copy. Enough to wantonly destroy hotel rooms, drive big cars, etc. Let's face it, most rock stars are overrated and overpaid (Except Bowie & The Stones)
This is the big fear, and I think it is real. There is a redistribution of wealth taking place, and of course, the wealthy are bitching and using their army (police, lawyers, etc.) to protect their wealth.
In the past, they put the sqeeze on Indie labels by manipulating discount schedules, supply lines, etc. with the record dealers. Go into a shop that has any kind of indie presence. Where are the big labels? About the only big store that carries any indie is Tower, and they got the might to tell the big labels to go fsck themselves.
Sites like mp3 not only represent a threat to the record manufacturers, by legitimately illustrating how overpriced CD's are, but indeed for the "artists" themselves. Streaming media is a way for the indie's to get around the stranglehold on the record dealers. Most of the artists fear that if just anybody can make music, _and_ consumers can listen before buying, they will be out of a job. Not just because of market crowding. Some of the new entries will be _better_ than most of the pop crap the record industry makes anyway.
cat
I remember in the late 80's how a Metallica fan bragged about their platnum album sales, and the fact that they did it without the help of MTV. Well, now they are on MTV, and suing to stop kids from exchanging their music for free. Money poisons everyone, it seems.
Another anecdote I remember is that Al Dimeola was approached by MTV to pay them to play his videos. He of coure told them to fsck off, and this is one example of many of why MTV is now a river of artless drivel.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I read way too much stuff on the web already, that even a nominal fee like 25 cents an article would add up to way to much way to quickly. and I don't even use the web that much ... if you charge people to read your writing, less people will read it, and isn't the point of writing to enlighten people to your view?
Metallica - need I say more?
Alex Bischoff
---
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
I was a really big Metallica fan. I've bought close to 50 CDs, a 10 video tapes, the DVD and even some vinyl (not to mention t-shirts and posters). I'd go out and drop $12 on an import single just to hear a couple b-sides. I was even a member of their fan club for the past couple years. The renewal form came last week, and its not getting paid.
Metallica used to be one of the most fan-friendly major acts out there. They would even have a tapers section where fans could record their shows. To quote a certain Danish drummer, "It happens anyway, so why not put them in the middle, where at least it will sound better" and "it's the ultimate souvenir to take the show home after you've lived through it." You know what I use Napster for most of the time? Getting bootlegs. I already own all of their releases...I just want to hear some live material without paying $25 for a cd of unknown quality.
For the past few years I've always argued with people who said they've sold out. Sure, their style changed after Justice, but I liked a fair deal of that too (I even like Load better than TBA or Reload). Even though they are all multi-millionares who each had their own private jet, they still seemed to respect their fans. I don't see that anymore.
And now some more ironic quotes from Lars:
(re: bootlegs) "It's not really a big deal. Who am I to sit on my high horse and say, 'I'm a rock star and you can't do this because it takes away from our record sales'? We don't have a problem with record sales."
"From the time we started, back in the garage in 1981, it's always been about having fun. I still look at us as four drinking buddies united around the music. It's cool if we've opened some doors that weren't opened before and it's cool if we've made people realize that there is a market for bands like this. But that's not what it's about -- it's just about us having fun playing our music."
I didn't like their last few alblums that I heard on MP3's. Can I make a negative donation and get a refund for my lost time? How about the time spent on connection fees, fone line time, and my expertise on sucky/good music differentiation?
:)
Speeding never killed anyone. Stopping did.
Or a DR-770 ... who would notice anymore? I'm sure one of those guys could figger out how to program it.
Lars was a business guy all along, it just didn't show until they really got popular.
----------------
Overheard: "Aww, why'd you go and install Windows on a perfectly good machine?"
Doesn't the record industry already collect a tax on recordable media to compensate for copyright infringement? Why the hell should we be sued when we're already being taxed? They need to decide whether copyright infringement is legal, and thus taxable, or illegal, and thus non-taxable. They should not be able to have it both ways!
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
So I wake up this morning, load up Slashdot, and imagine my surprise when I see the headline "Pay Lars". I don't know what I did (it couldn't be those pictures I have involving CmdrTaco and hot grits, could it?) but I sure like the idea of my bank account being Slashdotted...
So, do what CmdrTaco says, pay me.
User #72
If anybody has the "Cliff 'em All" Video, think really hard about the intro to the tape.....
,Collect the whole set !
When they guys went into the Quickee Mart, what were they doing ???
That's right Stealing stuff from the store !!!
Just stuffing things in jackets/pants as quick as they could, faster then I could D/L a song anyday !
I am a musician and a die-hard Metallica fan, but they really shot themselves in the foot/ass on this one
- Save The Whales
Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire.
Given the opinion that a lot of slashdotters seem to have of Metallica, I should probably get out the asbestos suit for this post, but whatever.
I love Metallica's music. Everything from their really early days to their S&M album. (And to all you people bitching about Metallica somehow being a sellout or what-have-you for doing this concert, keep in mind that it was largely Michael Kamen's idea [he's the conductor for the SFSO])
Having said that, while I like their music, I've never really had an opinion of the band members themselves, because I've never paid much attention to them. However, I think this lawsuit is a little rediculous. I'm going to apply some of my thoughts on software piracy to this, since music piracy is similar enough. Companies that complain about money lost to piracy are basing that on the principle that they owned my money before I gave it to them. In reality, they did not lose any money; they simply did not make more. (Please note that I am not defending software piracy, I am merely attacking corporate philosophy on it.)
Having said that, this lawsuit looks like nothing more to me than greed. And yes, I'll gladly put myself in their shoes and take another look at this issue. Would I be pissed off that people were trading my music without paying for it? Probably. Would I hunt down someone to sue for it? I would hope not. Napster may be used 99.999% for illegal trading of music, and it's impossible to prove that this was or wasn't their intent in writing the program, but they shouldn't be held responsible for what gets traded on their network. Metallica might as well sue Al Gore while they're at it. After all, he invented the internet, and without the 'net, this wouldn't be possible, right? =)
Anyway, I won't be "donating" any money to the band through this site, even though it appeals to the part of me that loves a nice, sarcastic response to situations like this. I do still plan on completing my collection of Metallica CDs, though (it's dismally small at the moment). I may not like what they're doing, but I still like their music.
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
I've been an on-again-off-again fan since their Black Album in '91, so if my opinions have any credibility, it's because of that ...
But is it just me, or has anyone else always SUSPECTED Lars was such an anti-commerce-savvy loudmouth, and that THIS incident (referring to the quote from Lars on paylars.com) sealed it for us ?
"He who questions training trains himself at asking questions." - The Sphinx, Mystery Men (1999)
-- $SIGNATURE
I am a huge Metallica fan, and I normally make my best attempt to rationally defend the actions of Metallica and their fans. Unfortunately, I am unable to do so in this case. I will refrain from re-iterating my comments on the Napstar issue in general and get right to the point at hand.
Metallica doesn't need any money. First of all, regardless of how much piracy occurs, Metallica albums still sell like crazy. Second there are millions of people like me who are willing to pay 50 bucks for a seat at a concert. And finally, Metallica have made so much money, if they haven't already put enough aside to secure their early retirement, then it's their own fault.
Message to paylars.com -- Wonderful gesture, but it isn't necessary.
Message to Metallica -- Keep cranking out the music and quit screwing with petty legal issues.
Wouldn't that just make people title the files "DrDr3" or something?
Did anybody actually read the secondary link off of their webpage? The link titled 'Read more'.
Granted their goal is still the same, it offers a lot of reasoning behind the site, and it really affirms a better description to them than 'stupid moron'.
Check it out.
Yeah, Mustaine rocks!
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
Wow. Imagine being called a cheapskate by your own server!
This gives new meaning to Microsoft Support.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
This coming from a band that has a taping section at their concerts.
Claiming that your operating system is the best in the world because more people use it is like saying McDonalds makes
Well, as a former metallica fan, I think Im gonna make nice glittering art by running the CD's I own by them (almost all albums up 'til 91) into nice powder by running them repeatedly through an electric sandpapermachine.
Its not likely whoever did this could set Apache up properly either. I've done both, and either way, you have to know what you are doing.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Ok, how about for the price of a cd, (15.99 or whatever) you can logon to the site for a year, and download any song from their library, as well as artwork, ticket sales, tour dates bios......
What do these people really have to loose? Is money that important?It would be incredible if some big act (like metallica) would just tell the record companies to go fsck themselves, and go independant.
love is just extroverted narcissism
You know, it seems pretty retarded to me that Metallica, RIAA (hope I got that right), et al, seem to think that just because a university has the napster ports unrestricted, that means that they are encouraging and helping piracy.
Last time I checked, ANY PROGRAM THAT USES SOCKETS can basically use any damn port it pleases. Who is to say that there are not thousands of legitemate programs (not that I'm saying Napster isn't legit, that's a separate debate) that use that port too, and that you're unfairly restricting their use by closing off the port?
By the same token, the Napster folks can easily change their program to use another port. Closing off whatever port they are using now is just a band-aid solution. I'm sure that someone could come up with a scheme whereby Napster would randomly rotate ports every so often and the clients would have some way of finding out what the port of the day was. Or heck, they could even use a port that you DON'T DARE close, like say some http ports...
The notion that just because a university has a port open on its systems that it is liable for what is done with those ports is bullshit to me... If I write a program to distribute illegal content on port XXXX, does that mean that my ISP is liable because they "should have known" that I could do this on that port? If that's the case ISPs might as well shut down everything but http right now, because anyone can write a program that uses any port. Goodbye Quake, goodbye ICQ, goodbye everything, because someone MIGHT do something naughty on that port. It's not like your ISP has the resources to police every single port out there.
The point is that even if we accept this bullshit assertion that the universities are somehow helping the pirates, are they any less helping them now that they've banned one measly port?!? I don't think so.
Mechanik
http://www.paylars.com/paranoia.jpg
It's seriously the funniest thing I've seen since "We hear you! - Your National Security Agency".
==
"This is the nineties. You don't just go around punching people. You have to say something cool first."
Well Metallica could *sue* for such a tattoo really. Disney actively fights tattoo shops that have Disney character flash as trademark and copyright infringement.
It's not that bad of an analogy really. You're just looking at it from the wrong perspective. Look at it from the perspective of the person you took it from. He worked X number of hours to be able to afford that car. Now he can't get the benefit of those hours. A creative artist may work X number of hours with the expectation that if someone likes his product he'll be able to benefit from that work.
Halls of justice painted green
Money talking
Power wolves beset your door
Hear them stalking
Soon you'll please their appetite
They devour
Hammer of justice crushes you
Overpower
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe
I can't believe the price you pay
Nothing can save you
Justice is lost
Justice is raped
Justice is gone
Pulling your strings
Justice is done
Seeking no truth
Winning is all
Find it so grim
So true
So real
Apathy their stepping stone
So unfeeling
Hidden deep animosity
So deceiving
Through your eyes their light burns
Hoping to find
Inquisition sinking you
With prying minds
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe
I can't believe the price you pay
Nothing can save you
Justice is lost
Justice is raped
Justice is gone
Pulling your strings
Justice is done
Seeking no truth
Winning is all
Find it so grim
So true
So real
Lady Justice has been raped
Truth assassin
Rolls of red tape seal your lips
Now you're done in
Their money tips her scales again
Make your deal
Just what is truth? I cannot tell
Cannot feel
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe
I can't believe the price you pay
Nothing can save you
Justice is lost
Justice is raped
Justice is gone
Pulling your strings
Justice is done
Seeking no truth
Winning is all
Find it so grim
So true
So real
Seeking no truth
Winning is all
Find it so grim
So true
So real
art is relative, to some it's art, to others its garbage.
kind of like rap...(garbage in, garbage out)
Metallica certainly makes more than $1 per retail album sold. Some bands may not but Metallica does. So 4 million records sold is a lot more than $3 million.
The problem with paying $.25 for a song is that nobody wants just one song. They want a bunch of songs. Perhaps from different artists, whatever. Once they start looking at it like "gosh, it's going to cost me X hundred dollars to get the music collection I want." They'll just go back to swapping MP3s.
My prediction is that they'd make $.25 for each song and then napster would be loaded up with songs that nobody had to rip.
This is sort of pathetic and really shows that no matter who you are, when it comes to money, "Nothing Else Matters".
got a website? want to know if it's up? www.atwatch.com
Well, you just borrow two from people who already have them, and use one to replicate the other...
:(
If your friends won't lend you their replication machines or refuse to admit they have them then I guess they weren't such good friends after all
Napster absolutely has a plan to make money from their service. It's just a matter of them getting into a position where they can do it. Right now they don't dare because then they'd get screwed big time in the courts. Without the profit factor they can argue that they aren't gaining by their service and thus a court is less likely to really put the smack down. If they profit and a court decides that Napster is abetting copyright violation then the fine goes from something like $10,000 per violation to $100,000 per violation and punative damages.
Napster Inc. (or Co. or LLC. or Ltd.) definitely has some kind of plan to make some dough. There just isn't any other reason to be running the service otherwise. Certainly not at the expense they are facing.
I'd just like to point out that Andre Young (aka Dr. Dre) may or may not be screaming bloody murder. To quote the Reuters article [emphasis added]:
So the lawyer behind Metallica's suit is behind "Dr. Dre's" letter. Hmm...
I'd like to hear Dre's take on the subject from his own damn mouth.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
I prefer Andy Warhol's view:
Now that I think about it, it's a good thing Andy worked in a time earlier than today. Would Campbell's soup let him sell his renditions of their labels as art? Would they charge him a fee for the privilege? Would
We come up with a system that allows for perfect copies of a "piece" (music, art, movie, whatever), i.e. digital representations of same. We then come up with the perfect mass information distribution mechanism, i.e. the internet. Then the owners of the physical media distribution network (CDs, DVDs, tapes, etc.) spend all their time trying to stop the digitized media distribution. It's like fighting gravity, guys. You'll lose eventually.
Having been a starving heavy metal guitarist, I understand that the band members need to eat. The current distribution mechanism (including ASCAP/BMI) is going to need some *serious* rethinking to survive the digital information age.
How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
On the other hand, Alternica (previously known as Metallica) claims that they are interested in "art" and having their work not be treated as a "commodity." In that case, suing a business that allows people who like your music to share it and forcing them to buy it in mass-produced packages at a giant mega record store (the most commoditizing situation I can conceive of) seems incredibly hypocritical.
The bus came by and I got on
That's when it all began
There was cowboy Neal
At the wheel
Of a bus to never-ever land
I'd rather be lucky than good.
In order to meet the demand amoungst Metallica fans to bazooka all their money at their favorite band, I am starting a website through which you can send money to former Metallica bass player Cliff Burton.
While it's true that Cliff Burton died in a tragic accident during the Master of Puppets tour, I can assure you all that he will appreciate your donations posthumously. Please visit www.paycliff.com; or make out your checks to Cliff Burton of Metallica and send your payment and note of thanks to:
Your generous donation will go towards preserving the memory of the 1980's, pre-Black-album Metallica, and paying the living expenses of poor, starving Metallica fans in the Pacific Northwest.
Finding God in a Dog
One day, when you are supporting yourself with your art - be it music, programming, whatever - you might have a different opinion about people stealing your art.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I was surfing around the Metallica website and found that most of the banner ads that were loaded were from MP3 sites. Rather ironic don't you think?
"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
-- Ernest Hemingway
Blind Sandman
(Sung to, of course, Enter Sandman)
The Napster's very bad my son,
Stealin' our fun,
Gotta pay for that one.
Making' millions, want some more
You're really makin' us poor
Till the laywers, they come.
Bleary-eyed and downloadin'
Nasty fans with wallet tight
Exit sight
Enter might
Got no qualm
Off to Metallica.com
RIAA is insane
We just wanna complain
They're making false claims
Dreams of war, dreams of liars
Dreams of our own ire
And of fans we will spite
If we had our own way
Shooting you dead on sight
Exit sight
Enter might
Got no qualm
Off to RIAA.com
Now I whine and we lose face
Now I whine and we lose face
Pray the lord we win our case
Pray the lord we win our case
When the fans balk in rage
When the fans balk in rage
They'll lock us in an iron cage
They'll lock us in an iron cage
We're so sour at the net
Never mind we're already set
Can't be sold like a commodity
This is art don't you see
Exit sight
Enter might
Stupid band
Exit sight
Enter might
Got no qualm
Off to PayLars.com
-- Greg
Was surfing around the site and I got this message when I tried the donation process. God, you've got to love NT Server. As if rebooting your server farm daily isn't bad enough...
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Open the 216.46.253.226 home page, and then look for links to the information you want.
HTTP 403.15 - Forbidden: Client Access Licenses exceeded
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More information:
Microsoft Support
A lot of people think that what I do is wrong, and maybe it is. I'll give you look at my justifications. Just keep an open mind about it. Don't start off thinking I'm out to steal from the artists.
I have what I consider to be a large collection of mp3s, yet I still buy hard copies from places like cdnow. Confused? It's sorta like this, if I happen to download a superb album, I'll buy it to support the artist, even if it's a $30 import. That's right, $30. That's how much the average album costs me. Although I think that this is more than just a little outragous, there's nothing I can do but pay through the nose to support the music I like, which is techno and industrial. Considering this, I'm going to make damn sure that I really like the artist before I cough up that much for a 7 track CD. And don't get me started on how much the artist actually make of that money, because it's probably less than a single US dollar. But once again, nothing I can do. If I could steal from just the label, 9 of 10 times I would, just out of spite. I'm sick and tired of getting fscked over by some greedy exec. The reason that they're fighting this revolution is because if the people get electronic distribution, they won't want to pay nearly as much as they pay for a CD. Record labels and stores won't be able to continue the massive markups, and the extra fee I have to pay for an import will be zilch. It really does piss me off. The other day I bought a single for $24, and while I love the music, does it seem right to pay that much for 3 songs? The only reason I did, was because I love the music that the artists created, and I feel I have an obligation to them.
However, there will always be piracy, and regardless of anything that anyone might do, it will happen. How many times have you asked a friend or coworker to make a cassette tape copy of an album they bought? And now with the easy availibility of cd recorders, who hasn't ran off a copy of that new cd your friend brought over? The artists that create loyal fans, rather than suing them like *some* bands, will always have a steady flow of royalties.
If you still think that I'm a greedy little pirate out to ruin The World As We Know It, then I guess you've already made up your mind and aren't willing to see the truth. It may just be a justification for my theft, which I've considered, I don't see it like that. I download music because I *love* it. Since I don't want to see the artists that make it have to find another line of work because noone buys their music anymore, I support them. Perhaps if my local radio stations played music I liked, I'd feel different. But the facts are that they don't, and I can't remember the last time I listened to the radio and heard a song I liked.
Give it some thought. Intense hatred for the members of the RIAA aside, I just want to know what I'm getting before I give away my hard earned cash. If you have a better way for me to preview songs, let me know, I'm always open to suggestion.
On the other hand, people use cd burners to copy entire albums from friends that they very well might have bought. This is clearly taking away sales from the record companies.
Why has this not let to a lawsuit? How is producing cd burners different from producing Napster software? While cd burners can be used to copy non-copyrighted things, so can Napster. And while I know that movie companies' attempts to sue VCR makers failed, realize that VCRs are mainly for playing videos, while cd burners are mainly for copying. If this lawsuit succeds could burners be next?
The bus came by and I got on
That's when it all began
There was cowboy Neal
At the wheel
Of a bus to never-ever land
I'd rather be lucky than good.
or how about that one-armed drummer from Def Leppard?
(just messin witchya)
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I just checked my personal MP3 archive, and found that someone had uploaded Garage Inc. to it. I am not a fan of Metallica. In fact, I pretty much hate their music. BUT... I think that this whole "paylars.com" thing has its merit. I would be very willing to pay a fair price to download mp3's of an artist's music, or pay on an honor system for mp3's that I received in some other manner (Napster for instance)
I am a big fan of music in general, and I firmly believe in paying artists for their work. In fact, I am one of those people who hears an MP3 of music by the group "Dune" and then proceeds to purchase every "Dune" CD/Concert Ticket/T-Shirt I can get my hands on... I love to support the artists I enjoy. I also like to try before I buy. MP3's have allowed me to globally expand my musical tastes. I would never have heard of Dune, nor would they have ever gotten one red cent of my money, had I not downloaded an MP3 of one of their songs from some "wares" MP3 site.
I would, however, prefer that more of my money went to the artists themselves, and I see some sort of online MP3 distribution method being the only good way to do this. Only online can any artist, with minimal expense, distribute art to millions of potential fans. So some will copy the music and not pay... So what? The true fans WILL pay, and the percentage of "lost" revenue is negligible, since the fact is, it is an unknown quantity. You have no idea if I would have EVER bought your CD, or payed for your MP3, or if I even have a copy or have ever heard of you. Fact is, the only thing anyone knows for sure is when you DO pay. "Lost revenues" due to piracy are simply a myth.
Let me pay the artist for his work. Not the "record" company (who makes CD's not records anyway...) Not the "producer" who produces nothing... The ARTIST... let me pay them. How? well, online is the only way I can think of... Automated MP3 distribution with Credit Card payments that automatically get dumped in the artist's account... The artist doesn't have to worry about being technical or running a website, the artist can simply play music and be rewarded. And you know what? the cheaper it is, the more people will go ahead and pay... A price balance will be reached, and fans get to support the artists they love, and "record labels" get to be the pieces of paper on mildewing 45's in my attic, not multi-billion dollar dinosaurs.
oh yeah, the point, I spent $27 on paylars.com for music that I never listen to... why? to support the concept of online MP3 distribution by major artists.
-Count Zero
Lars before the "One" video, when only *real* metalheads listened to them, and you could survive a mosh pit without full body armor: "Videos suck! They get in the way of the song. The music means something different to everyone."
Lars after the "One" video, when all the trendy assholes started listening to them, and broken bones in mosh pits became a question of "how many?" instead of "if?": "The video was a great for us to bring another dimension of the music to the fans and
Lars has a habit of changing his opinions as needed. Not that he shouldn't be allowed to change an opinion if his beliefs change. Just nowadays, I just never get the impression he's given us his "final answer". Whatever he believes, he believes *so* wholeheartedly, even if it's the exact opposite of what he believed a few months ago. If he showed any indication of how he got from belief X to its antithesis, I'd have a lot more trust in anything that came out of his mouth.
How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
CmdrTaco, maybe you should read this before you posted this article..
No, I'm not talking about duplicating a car, I'm talking about when someone steals the car you've lost the benefit you expected from putting in the hours to earn enough money to buy a car. Same concept as an artist losing the hours when they don't get paid for their work.
Lars is just pissed because napster wasn't around when he was a kid! :) From the Garage Inc. liner notes, I see that he subscribed to a U.K mail-order house, Bullit Records, and "He was such a loyal customer that after awhile, rather than wait for Ulrich's want lists and checks, Bullit just dispatched _everything_ -- regular shipments every couple of weeks -- and billed him for the goods." That is in 1980 or so according to the liner notes. Well, when I was a kid, I sure didn't have that kind of money.
:), no, with Lars, I mean, of course.
And what about all the kids in places besides the U.S... Eastern Europe, China, etc. where the cost of a (legitimately purchaced) CD can easily exceed the wages earned in a day?
I have a hard time sympathizing. (Those damn kids can just save up their money!
But, in spite of it, I'm still a die-hard fan, I own all their CDs...I just hope I don't get sued for quoting a snippet of the liner notes.
Bang the head that doesn't bang!
What about the rest of us?
There's this assumption that only major label acts count, that the rest of us are geeky guitar player or ReBirth-diddling dirtbags who don't _deserve_ to be popular. This, in the face of legis lation that rapes musician's interests even worse than usual- now musicians will be pressured into contracts that sign away their music FOREVER to the label. Is that fair? Is that right? If Metallica are part of that system do they deserve sympathy? Certainly. Do they deserve for people to support it just because Metallica are associated with it? Well....
Meanwhile, I for one am feeling much like the Linux camp in "Cryptonomicon"- the guys with the free tanks that get 60 mpg and go 120 mph with air conditioning and cruise control and fuzzy dice. I go "Please, download my music! I've been playing and composing for more than fifteen years and my heart and soul is in the work, plus I build my own equipment and share my information and ideas freely with others and offer to help people get samples off my tapes if they want any!" and then what?
I'll tell you what- then I post in Slashdot threads, because I love Slashdot and this musician is user #580... there are lots of musicians who read Slashdot. There are lots of _listeners_ who read Slashdot. Yet, I won't bother even asking if I can get a feature on the way I am trying to bring free-software principles into music, because it'd be 'promotion'- but Lars Ulrich GETS THE FEATURE on Slashdot, and the 'Pay Lars' site GETS the hits- why? Because they are 'newsworthy'! Because they are MAINSTREAM and joking about how some website wants to pay them is considered more important than my sweat and blood and heart and soul. It's a question of numbers. How are you going to stop the mainstream industry from smothering you if you just feed it every chance you get? Even bad attention is attention!
TO HELL WITH THAT. I may not be able to get a Slashdot feature- I _wrote_ a Slashdot feature and am friendly with roblimo, but I am just too close to this one- maybe the mainstream media still makes a sick joke of journalistic objectivity but _I_ take it seriously enough that I won't try to 'sneak in' promotion in the guise of an article, even a good passionate persuasive one. Somebody should write that article, though. How many Slashdot articles have given hits to Metallica, the RIAA and their supporters, and how many have supported the musical equivalent of free software and Linux- the artists out there trying to use mp3 for good, inventing a whole new marketplace dynamic based on what free _software_ has taught us? Are we to be totally ignored, do you _really_ want to just only support the major labels here?
And meanwhile- heck with being shy, Metallica is not shy, the RIAA are not shy, and I for one am getting steamrollered. BUY MY ALBUM . Yes, I know that every song on it (actually I have _five_ albums up at mp3.com) is downloadable at no cost- I'm doing that on purpose, dammit! It's important to me that I give freely- I also share my production tips and technical tricks with musicians on the mp3.com boards quite freely. BUY MY ALBUM anyway. There are several to choose from, my favorite is 'anima' a set of rock instrumentals based on animal themes, some are really damn good music. You can hear them all you want, totally free, with my blessing- download them from that page and there's no strings attached and I'm not _forcing_ you to do anything. I'm asking, like someone who has just seen yet another Metallica publicity-boosting article even here on Slashdot where I go to get away from that crap, to BUY MY ALBUM . The Metallica is what, $14? $17? MY ALBUMS are all $5.99- if they'd let me set the price lower, I would! And I'm _still_ getting 50% of that, more per album than Metallica will ever see. Buy the damn things! Argh! *g*
Not only that, if you go here like I am piteously begging you to do- you can download, again free with my total blessing, the first track on another killer album I'm putting together- a groundbreaking techno album so new I don't even have a cover for it or a CD of it yet! The sound rivals or kicks the ass of any major label release in this genre, especially bass-wise, and the music is TOO INNOVATIVE for the labels to cope with- the whole album is techno in unusual time signatures! "Fire Dragon" , the first track to be created (not 'released'- when I do 'em you get 'em that day!) is in 7/4 time! It still dances, but this stuff is too innovative for anything but FREE MUSIC as we indie artists are doing it. You'll never see anything this fresh on a major label! They're even kicking Clive Davis out of Arista so they can get safer and more corporate!
You can even get "Fire Dragon" direct from here and not even visit the page- here is a link to download the mp3 file without even leaving Slashdot. It's only 4.7 megs, even if you're not into fierce innovative techno please give me just the seconds or minutes to download the song anyhow? You might like it, and as an indie musician I really could use the support. :)
And _while_ I'm at it, I want to mention some really nice people- a sort of coalition of artists (of which I'm one) gathering together to try and promote their work in the face of this horrible indifference and in spite of how much more power the major labels have- Liquid Dreams Records . I am just one of _lots_ of neat independent bands working together on this, and we deserve the page-visit and listen! Trust me that there's a lot of wonderful stuff... one of my favorites was corruptdata , who does neat fierce electronica that I kept listening to over and over and over :) please, go hunt down the free indie artists and talk about us and support us! Do you _want_ to be listening to nothing but re-releases of Metallica for the rest of your lives? (besides which, depending on their contract they might not even own their music at all)
They said "I ain't gonna play Sun City"- now it's time to say "I ain't gonna waste my time talking about major labels!" To hell with 'em! Please help us real artists- and not 'help us to get signed' either, hell with that, it's too horribly corrupt, help us establish a new industry, one that is decentralised like Linux! Because you know what?
WE OWN OUR MUSIC. We are _allowed_ to use mp3. And we're doing just that- HELP us.
-chris
I dunno too much about this Lars dude, but one thing's obvious: the most exciting innovations in actual art and artist communities of the last couple of decades have completly passed him by. For somebody from the Bay Area, a place that for so long has had a vibrant community of artists, that's really sad.
New meme... must propagate... Someone tell WiReD...
--Threed
Statistics show that most people don't really give a shit.
Revenge of the Nerds!
I had the same experience as many Slashdot readers, when I attempted to chip in a few bucks for Lars... So I did what any self respecting Slashdotter would, and dropped paylars.com a brief note explaining to them why they should use Apache and Linux instead of IIS and NT... Here is the e-mail conversation that ensued...
------
From: countzero@cyberdeck.org
You should have used a Free server such as Apache, since your licenses for IIS are not up to the load generated by Slashdot and other forums who have linked to you... I strongly recommend you investigate interprise class server solutions such as Linux and Apache, instead of the inferior Microsoft products that you are currently using. The use of Microsoft products is causing you to loose money, since people are unable to complete the checkout process due to insufficient licenses. (so you loose money twice, once due to the lost sale, and again, when you spend money on more licenses... when does the circle end? and who is the only winner? You guessed it, Microsoft.)
------
Hi,
Thanks for your message. You are completely correct - we would have used a free server such as Apache, in fact we would have built all of our sites open source from the beginning, but there's only four of us and we all (unfortunately) had a lot of Microsoft experience, and no Linux/Apache/MySQL/etc. experience. At this point, because August Nelson is self-funded (no VC, no scammy IPO in the works, though we are trying to raise some smart money) we aren't in a position to train ourselves or hire someone else to help us make the transition to open source.
The open source vs. MS debate is basically the same as MP3 vs. SDMI. It's centralized control vs. empowerment of the individual. It's freedom of thought vs. somebody telling you (and charging you a lot of money for) what to think. We want to empower the individual, we want to think for ourselves.
Switching to an open source enterprise solution is one of our top technical priorities. Perhaps we could contact you in the future to help us make that happen?
Thanks again for your message, and feel free to contact me in the future.
Mark Erickson
President - August Nelson, Inc.
www.augustnelson.com
www.orangealley.com
merickso@augustnelson.com
------
Would you mind if I posted our conversation to Slashdot.org ? there have been some comments there regarding your usage of IIS, and I think that it would be beneficial to you if this letter was posted there to address these issues... I personally am very pleased with what your company does, and would be very interested in helping in any way possible.
------
You have absolute permission to post this correspondence to Slashdot. I would love to figure out a way for us to transition to open source, so keep in touch.
Cheers,
Mark
I use to think of Metallica as a relativley cool band. They had a real fuck the system attitude, now that the system is "fucking " them . Lars turns into a crybaby and starts using the system he use to debase to sue everyone. Can't we revoke his visa. Hey Lars I have got your black album on my MP3 file, I bought and paid for it you twit. I am going to make sure the next time I am on napster that It is the only file I list so that is all that is being uploaded. My 56k connection will cost you about $20 over a years time. And I won't make the donation to paylars.com
Hey, wait a minute, I am an artist. And when my band gets together enough money to record, we're going to put everything up on mp3.com and hope it makes its way to Napster - because everyone knows artists actually make their real money on concerts. I've got friends who did exactly that and it's really helped out with exposure and concert revenue.
And it's my deeply-held belief that when someone makes more than $3 or $4 million on art, they should shut up and stop whining - about anything - forever.
Also, although this is beside the point, Metallica has always sucked. Stupid butt metal.
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
This is untrue for all but the biggest bands. In fact, you essentially say that yourself: this is true only for bands which "do 250+ shows a year" and charge "$40+" for tickets. Very few bands can get away with this -- those that can already DO have album sales in "the millions and millions".
The vast majority of bands make little profit or even lose money on tour -- shows are done mostly to promote CD sales. (And, of course, because the band loves playing their music.) Most shows (at least those that I hear of) by acts which don't sell "millions and millions" of albums are in the $7 - $17 range. These prices do not result in large fortunes; they result in the tour van getting new tires. In fact, many great bands tour very rarely, either because they don't want to be on the road for most of the year or because it's simply too expensive. (Or for a variety of other reasons.)
And also: since when do all the big names own their own record labels? Relatively few do.
And yes, the record companies are evil, and yes, this is a valid reason to get MP3s, but you can't just pretend that not selling CDs won't hurt a band -- this is not true. It will hurt the band. On the other hand, many people (myself included) will, if they like the music they get in MP3 form, buy the CD. I know that since I started getting MP3s, I've started spending way too much money on CDs. And hopefully, eventually this will force record companies to change their distribution, and give small labels and acts more exposure and more of chance. This is true; saying that not buying a band's CD doesn't hurt them is false.
Yeah, don't people have any taste? Personally, I think you should be able to go into Tower Records and pay $17.99 for a CD-ROM full of uncommented CGI scripts. Now, that's art.
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
Napster is about as evil as People thought Metallica was in the 80's when they were COVERING all those King Diamond songs. ! VB
"I think you know what I'm talkin' about, Mr. President; We're gonna kill us a mummy!" - Bruce Campbell as Elvis Presley
You're referring to "In the Beginning... Was the Command Line," not "Cryptonomicon."
Ceterum censeo Microsoftam esse delendam.
Here's an email I got from someone claiming to be Lars:
:)
> From: "Authorized User" <XT551@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <cdavison@cadvision.com>
> Subject: Thanks
> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:14:37 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
>
> Craig I just happened to be searching around and I saw a page about us.
> Its great to know people like you keep the old and forgotten shit alive
>
> Keep on rockin
>
> Lars.
So, maybe we should all spam XT511@worldnet.att.net and let him know what we think of his change of heart.
Hands in my pocket
You too can make decent-sounding music...with the Jazz++ MIDI sequencer and the TiMidity MIDI renderer/player. Here's a techno piece I've done.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm gonna want to listen to it at my friends place, on my stereo system, and in my car. Can't do that with my MP3's (as they stand now anyway).
By "now" you mean "today." In May, a new product will be released that changes this. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mambo no. X. It's a Discman-like CD player that plays both Red Book (standard uncompressed format) and MPEG Audio Layer 3 (Fraunhofer's popular compressed format). The RIAA doesn't want CDs you burned for your Mambo-X player to replace their $20 media, only 20c of which goes to the artist.
Will I retire or break 10K?
In any case, let's not forget whose rights to peaceful existence are being violated here in the name of the greater good of new works.
MP3.com already has a model like this. It's called D.A.M. for Digital Automatic Music. User downloads MP3s; user likes band; user buys $10 CD from MP3.com; artists gets half.
AMP3.com already has a pay-per-view model: each download pays an artist 5c of advertisers' money.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Now, I think I'll ask Jason's mom (who I know) for his address so I can return the picture, and also every tape of theirs that I own. I think it's really sick for a band who's perhaps the most famous in its genre to start whining about revenue lost to Napster. I mean, who can even find "kill em all" anymore? Why not trade it around?
But, even if they want to whine about that, it's their legal right. It disgusts me, but they're entitled, I guess. But to attack universities, which are non-profit organizations, even when they're ivy league, is just wrong. And moreover, this is an oblique attack on a freakin' tool, which is just as easily used for good as harm.
Yes, I know about the ratio of legal-to-illegal stuff traded on Napster. But it is a significant, if misguided, statement by thousands of people that they're sick of the markup the RIAA would have them pay. And instead of reaching out to their fans, Metallica -- who are all millionaires, BTW -- has decided to pitch a fit about a few thousand dollars in lost revenue.
So, maybe I can get one of their home addresses, and while I think it'd be irresponsible to spread that around the internet, I don't feel bad about sending a letter or two there. Anyone else want to send back your tapes/CDs to tell 'em how you feel? Give me a buzz!
Some synthesizers are called "programmable" with note sequences. Many can store their sequences in standard MIDI format (*.mid; *.kar; *.rmi). Tools like Timidity can "compile" these MIDIs into *.wav, and even a really lame encoder can "link" the results into "executable" MP3 files. So we have a "Program" that can be released under the GNU GPL; draw your own conclusions.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I would like to suggest to the site designer that canned goods and clothes also be accepted. I personally can't sleep at night knowing that somewhere my favorite hair band Mertallica is cold and hungry.
But [James] was astounded by the size and specialist depth of Ulrich's collection..."I would stay over at his place for days at a time, making tapes of his records and sleeping on the carpet."
Mankind has always dreamed of destroying the sun.
if my boss told me I didn't deserve da money...I would leave and find another well-respected job..most preferably Burger King.
"Heeeeeeees....standin' in the breadline..."
/*intense snoring ensues...not me, the rest of the band, since you can play this damn inane track in a deep coma! */
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Like the site's statistics show ('course, I believe that the worlds a bunch of lies, damn lies, and statistics ;^) CD sales are ridiculously up.
:^P ) There are probably a lot LESS people that trade tracks via Napster than there are via TDK. The big difference, of course, is the fact that whenever DAT machines were poised to be released in this country, the RIAA pushed for laws that made it illegal to record for consumers to record on anything other than cassettes or other "legal" media. Computers aren't legal for recording. PLUS, the RIAA pushed for taxes on audiocassettes (because, after all, all tapes were used for was pirating music, right? never mind that I have more original music on cassettes, and all the rest of my cassettes are legal copies for my car...)
:^)
Besides, the MP3 crowd is an easy target. These are folks who openly trade music, as opposed to the tape trading crowd of years past (and if it weren't for tape traders, Metallica would probably still be some luser band in SanFran.
Quite frankly, Lars & Gang are probably hurting as much as "Mr. Moneybags" Paul McCartney (talk about inane songs...who's worse, gang? I'll take "Battery" over "Uncle Albert" any day.
It seems like Western society bases importance on amount of pay (or vice versa.) If so, we have a pretty screwed up sense of who's important. The wealtiest people in the U.S. (besides folks like Gates, Perot, Forbes, etc.) work in the entertainment industry. The folks who are supposed to make the working class smile, laugh, cry, etc. Ditto for athletes. Heck, there are many athletes who are millionaires. I have an in-law who does genetic engineering for Monsanto, and lemme tell ya, she makes a LOT less money than Jim Carey. What does she do? Stuff like genetically engineering corn so those poor impoverished countries can have hardy corn to grow and eat (and give morons something to scream about in rallies...ahem...) What does Jim Carey do? He acts like a moron, and makes millions a picture. Oog.
NOTE: Before you flame me, I realize that these artists are also a minority, while many others go hungry. I digress.
Here's a thought: Let's rob Lars to pay Paul. (sorry, couldn't resist paraphrasing a cliche.)
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Sure, the site is a good idea- but it won't affect the distribution of mp3s, it might even encourage distribution. And even then, what keeps this paylars site from being a scam? Sephir0th, because (C) means nothing but greedy, big business.
Maybe bands could just not sign with major labels, and do other things to support their music "habit.", make money and still give music away free on the 'Net.
Here's an example: a band could do a semi-local "tour" of, say, bars (alternative: do a tour of college towns, which still implies bars), and keep day jobs. The band could use the shows as a means of selling hardcopy copies of their music, such as on CDs and cassettes. The bands would do well to keep part-time "day jobs" as well.
Oh wait...that's what a lot of unsigned bands do, short of giving MP3s away. *sighs* And here I thought I came up with a kick-ass idea.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Who gets to decide "what metallica needs" to pay for its work and life? Certainly not you, nor should the government.
Furthermore, it is extremely presumptuous to say that the rights that congress grants U.S. residents aren't really rights. What "really" is a right? Is it something self-evident? Is it the U.N. declaration of rights? Who decides?
Currently the most logical perspective is the current one by the U.N. World Intellectual Property Organization: Ideas are free (gratis and libre). A particular manifestation of them are under the control of the creator.
Some day, they may be libre, but I doubt they'll ever be gratis.
-Stu
Metalica is now the Gary Coleman of the Music Industry....How soon till we see this lars fellow in UGO banner ads whining for people to give him money.
What a bunch of hippocrites you all are. Everyone wants great music, but no one wants to pay for it. Did you know that a recording studio can cost hundreds of dollars an hour to use? If you think the record company pays for that you're wrong. What about all the other musicians that didn't sign multi-million dollar deals? How do you expect them to pay for the blood, sweat and tears they put into their art for your enjoyment? It is their livlihood. It feeds their families. It puts a roof over their heads. Napster and other utilites like it, seek to destroy all of that because a bunch of greedy punks want something they don't want to pay for.
Because the average CD retails for ~$15, the difference is pure profit to the record companies, and therefore the music industry deluged itself with junk (korn, limp bizkit, puff daddy, kid rock, et al). The record corporations have so much money, they don't know what to do with it.
Lars and the music industry need to realize that their end is near, and fade away in a matter that leaves the fans with a reason to continue to respect them (Metallica, not necessarily the music industry).
Dracos
"Integer: a number that represents any valid floating-point value"
Just downsample the entire album to a lower sample rate. Not too low, but enough to make you want to buy the CD. Then make your digital music available for free. Now what a concept....This way you get to straddle the fence a bit, really a way to appease both sides of this issue.
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither. " Ben Franklin
To bad they made "Risk". Even Friedman didn't want anything to do with Megadeth after that.
If you want to listen, you have pay for it.
This people live from music.
You can't just distribute "licensed" music,
if there where GPL music, that ok.
But they aren't.
So, if you are a REAL metal fan, you
have to support your group and buy
they CDs!
Metal fans that only have stolen MP3, sucks!
Go listen five or n'sync!
Metal up your ass!! Yea!
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
Actually, I would say his argument was more hard-core libertarian than communist.
-Stu
I got somethin' to say (dun dunnnnnn)
I ripped your CD today and it...
doesn't matter much to me...
as long as it's dead....
Kinda brings a whole new meaning to BREADFAN don't it?
Blech. Signatures.
Gotta keep looking though, I spent two Minutemenless months (MP3 wise, always got My First Bells and Double Nicks in the car) searching for the boys from San Pedro. Then, allathasudden, I get mondo minmen DLs. Strange...
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
My point of view is this. There is a definite problem with the record industry, sales probably are not what they should be, but MP3's are not the problem. I work in Computer Operations, I am surrounded by people that are constantly on the cutting edge of technology. The thing is this, for all the trouble I have gone through I don't have a single friend that makes or even cares about MP3's. I am alone. Seems to me that if MP3's were the evil the RIAA says they are I should at least know someone that uses them. Here is what is really wrong. Music today sucks ass. Im sorry but for the last 5 years or so the quality of music has gotten so bad that I actually get excited about groups like NIN and Marilyn Manson. I have a little mesurement about music quality. It is real simple really. Will my kids like it? Think about it. MM and NIN, you have to have been in the moment (and I was) to enjoy that stuff. You just cant simply pick it up. But look at things like Don McLeans American Pie. There is a song that is way before my time, but I still love it. It stands up. There really isn't any music that stands up anymore. From my viewpoint this is the final evolution of MTV. MTV has killed music, not MP3.
I think what should happen is one of two things:
1. In addition to the 330,000 people tracked down and individually sued for copyright infringment, everyone who has ever copied a Metallica album should also be sued. Of course all those individual cases would clog the legal system for a hundred years so they would have to have mass trials like here in Vancouver after the Clayoquot protests, but on a much larger scale. Metallica should recieve the value of the copyrights and punitive damages which should amount to somthing like one billion billion trillion dollars. At which point society would collapse into anarchy because the money doesn't exist.
2. Napster should be held responisble for all those people's actions because people have no freedom of choice and were forced to use it. Napster should also be held responisble for any person that listens to a Metallica song that is downloaded through Napster or subsquently copies that music after the fact in perpetuety. Once again these damages would total to 1 billion billion trillion dollars. One day after Napster is put out of commision someone else releases a program that does exactly the same thing, it's popularity explodes and the cycle begins again. Eventually Metallica is legallity entitled to all the money in the universe.
Aside from the last line, you are absolutely correct, and have pretty much summed up the issue. Although I'm not sure why Metallica is getting into this! The real pirates here, and the only ones that stand to lose any money here are the RIAA. You know the guys with the real money that love to push around all the little guys. The ones that have been prosecuted numerous times for Racketeering. The guys that sued a small rural shop owner for playing a radio in his store while he worked and bankrupted the poor guy. Yep those guys are the REAL problem. If music began distrubiting globally SOLELY through mp3 format, and RIAA was out of the picture, the distributed music would still drive fans to concerts, and the bands would make the money they deserve, and the worthless bastards in the RIAA could all just go to hell where they belong!
You are so full of shit. I've NEVER played a $300 guitar that has even come close to the one I paid $1800 for. And that goes for any guitar over $1,000. And who are you to say this has something to do with how much money they have, spend, and make? THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE!
Go ahead and be a baby. Throw away your CDs. I am really blown away by everyone trying to justify this. What if you were to do the same with software? Don't give me this bullshit that you always try s/w before you buy it. I lurked in Warez rooms for YEARS and know damn well that argument is a load of bull. Are you going to sit there and tell me with a straight face that 375,000 are "evaluating" Metallica's songs? Yeah, and I have a tropical island to sell you for $5. If you happen to have seen any of the specials on eMpTyV about MP3s, you'll see college students openly admitting they are pirating the music.
You can blame Metallica for your "low wage job." Bitch all you want. Just remember that these are the same guys who were practically homeless for two years because all they wanted to do was play in a band. Yeah, I feel really sorry for you....
Sorry folks, the mass justifcation of MP3s has gone way overboard. I agree that some people do actually use Napster to check out albums (I wouldn't have bought the most recent Pantera without it, unless I had borrowed the CD). But 99% of Napster's users don't do that.
It seems that Metallica might need the money after all...being that they forgot their METAL roots and are now "jamming" with symphony orchestras and the like. It's pathetic what they've done with their music. I bet you, of all those they are trying to ban from Napster not a soul downloaded the classical arrangement of metal music crap they just released; only stuff they already own on CD. F(*&^ off Metallica, you guys SOLD OUT!!!!
"In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is revolutionary." --- George Orwell