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Slackware 7.2 [Not] Released
Pete Blackley writes: "The best Linux distro out there has just released a new version; check out the README. And it comes with kernel... 2.2.18! Some things never change, and I am glad it works that way. Don't forget to check the autoslack package in the unsupported dir: it means the imminent death of all the "Slack lacks apt-get" arguments. PS: If you browse the ftp.slackware.com/pub tree, you'll see that Slack currently runs on vanilla x86, SGI VisualWorkstations and SunSparcs; I'm just waiting for the PowerPC port! PPS: All the crap about Slackware's death really is an exaggeration." That's what I like: a distro that isn't afraid to say that its death is an exaggeration. Update: 01/13 01:47 PM by michael : Slackware says - rudely - that 7.2 isn't released yet. This situation - confusion about what is released and what is not - is one that most software developers avoid by utilizing new-fangled conventions such as "beta".
Whoa? What's up with your period key? All of them look like the copyright symbol on my system.
Two days ago...ftped slackware-current/slakware.
TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ TANJ!!!!
But, as usual, Thank you for an excellent Distro!
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Hey pinhead, the italics in a story are the words of the author (not a /. person). Thus, they are the author's opinion, not a statement or indication (necessarily) of fact.
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
With Slack, I download (ftp - mget) the packages to a non-system partition and install from there. Works great, no ISO images, no burning CDs, etc.
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
I needed a laugh today... Get Slack!
-- Ted tsikora@powerusersbbs.com
Ummm buddy the newest Linux is 2.4.0, you are probably referring to Redhat Linux 7.0, which as I recall is the redhat Distro's most recent release, you see Linux is just a kernel, all the other stuff is distro stuff, oh yeah and my personal fav is Slackware, I love the flexibilty, and intelligent setup options and lack of dumbed-down interfaces, I respect Debian too, thank you guys for giving us Distro's for the Linux old-timers.
Life is but a Beta test...
I certainly do, but as my posting stated, 2.2.18 isn't too different from an end-user POV. You're talking server.
(For which I typically use FreeBSD)
Oh, and for the record, I'm using 2.4.0 on my main workstation (a dual 466 celeron.) While the 2.4x kernels bench a bit faster when compiling, I really don't see an incredibly noticeable difference. (Apart from my APIC errors in 2.4.x, these have to do with heat and the notorious BP6.)
Every OS (and OS distribution) has its place. For simple IPMASQ have you checked out Coyote Linux? Pretty sweet!
Cheers,
Ben
I don't know about benchmarks, but my dual 466 w/256MB RAM and a Voodoo 3 2000 has always been great with:
- tux racer
- UT (and UT demo)
- Quake3
- Sof demo
- Sin demo
- anything else I put it through.
I'm running Debian unstable w X4.0.2 and 2.4.0, but it was also just as fast with 2.2.18 and the 2.4.0test kernels.
The nVidia may be faster, but I challenge anyone to find a more supported video card than my Voodoo 3... (Linux, FreeBSD, BeOS, QNX, oh, and Win32 too..)
I'd gladly send you my XF86Config file, if you'd like. Also, I've read that using fancy video modes in LILO can have an adverse impact on your card's speed. I'm not too sure about that though.
Hmm, try disabling some unneeded services too, Mdk 7.2 throws in a _lot_ of stuff by default.
Ben
I don't believe you have used it for 6 years without knowing that the option is "-lpthread", not "-pthread".
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
HAHAHAHAHA.... someone with a uid in the mid-200000 range is bitching about how Slashdot isn't what it used to be?!?
Look around you... the cause of that deterioration is your fellow 5-digit buddies.
The SGIs mentioned in the article are Visual Workstations, i.e. just Intel boxes with proprietary chipsets and bus controllers. What you're talking about is probably an SGI Indigo or one of its relatives; to use that, you'll probably have to go with NetBSD (although I'm not sure if their sgimips port will work on the older models).
Erk, sorry... I just noticed that you mentioned that it's an SGI O2. If so, then yes, NetBSD/sgimips should run on it.
As a long time Windows user, I find that most Linux fans tend to think most Window's users are not technically inclined. This is rather annoying , to me, as I have found most things computer wise are related in many ways.
When I started playing with Linux (2.5-3 years ago) Slack was my first distro. Some guy I worked with gave my a CD and just said "try this".... A day or so later, I was up on the network (in Linux) and using lynx, emacs, vi et al.
Don't sell people short based on the OS they are currently using... Eveyone can learn a new trick or two
signal, noise, to me it's all the same.
The evidence?
signal, noise, to me it's all the same.
Stick to Slackware, because you certainly lack the required number of brain cells to grow out of it.
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
Quick, hurry to the head of the HR department and tell them that maintaining a central database of all employees is stupid! Don't forget to tell the same to your account manager at the bank!
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
Excuse me if I'm missing something, but exaclty why do you need to reboot?
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
I'm about to upgrade my computer (next week, when the parts finally get here) to a setup that will be using a UDMA100 card for the hard drive. I'm gonna want to reinstall Linux from scratch on the thing. (old setup has a badly hacked up Mandrake 6.1 install on it) Is there any distro that will boot on my new hardware? Or do I have to first install differently, then build a new kernel, then swap hardware and hope it works?
Slackware has always had a packaging system. The addition of an (unsupported) automatic upgrading utility is NOT the addition of a packaging system. The automatic upgrader only works to determine what has changed within the distribution and download those changes for you. The package utilities handle manipulating the packages.
Check out a Slackware system and look at installpkg, removepkg, and upgradepkg, among others.
Slackware has an open development model. Any changes Patrick makes to the distribution are uploaded to our primary ftp server into the -current tree. This tree is the developmental branch for what will eventually become the next release.
If you walk through the changelog, you will note that -current is just about as open as it gets. We've made changes only to retract those changes days later because they didn't quite work. How many other distributions hang their development out in the open like that?
Yes, Debian does too. But to imply that Slackware does not have an open development model is wrong.
Most of the time, ldconfig is automagically run for you. When you install new libraries onto a running system, the "make install" almost always runs ldconfig. When you install libraries from packages, the packaging system usually runs ldconfig for you.
While none of those methods are really automatic from the viewpoint of the operating system handling it for you, the end result to the users is the same. Libraries are magically dealt with.
The only times you ever really run ldconfig are if there's a broken "make install", you're doing something really complicated, or you are in exceedingly deep shit.
I just installed 7.1 on a new box last night, and I haven't even got to use it yet, because mkraid is still clearing devices.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Here's the link to the official Slackware response.
This is what it says:
I guess I'm not the only one who is sick of stories being posted multiple times, failure to check up on the facts before pushing the "Submit" button, etc...HAHAHAHA. I said I started READING /. a year ago, so what if I didn't register or start posting till later. talk about a retard.
So what, I started reading /. three years ago and I didn't get myself an ID for quite some time after that. Does that make my penis bigger? It obviously makes my ID lower and even *I* don't feel entitled to say "What happened to /.!"
i may be off base here, but if you've been using Slack for over 6 years i should think that you'd be able to interpret the error messages you pasted.
> cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c proxy.c -o proxy.o
> cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
looks like you either don't have pthread's installed, or you're using a strange version of cc/gcc (not likely, you'd know if you installed it).
glibc2 normally comes with linuxthreads, but you can pick it up at http://pauillac.inria.fr/~xleroy/linuxthreads/.
when you install a new package/compile something, it's important that you at least browse through the documentation to make sure nothing other than 'make;make install' is needed...quite often, packages from freshmeat require other packages installed first, that aren't packaged with Slack.
good luck,
josh
Silly you... you need Slackware 7.x (Mine is 7.1 with updated kernel)
/usr | grep slackware
giles@lemur:~/bannerkiller1.01> make
(cd src; make)
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/giles/bannerkiller1.01/src'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o proxy.o proxy.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o gestion.o gestion.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o connexion.o connexion.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o filtre.o filtre.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o utilsText.o utilsText.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o utils.o utils.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o global.o global.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c -o debug.o debug.c
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -o bannerkiller proxy.o gestion.o connexion.o filtre.o utilsText.o utils.o global.o debug.o
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/giles/bannerkiller1.01/src'
cp src/bannerkiller .
giles@lemur:~/bannerkiller1.01> uname -a
Linux lemur 2.2.18 #2 Sat Dec 30 20:40:15 GMT 2000 i686 unknowngiles@lemur:~/bannerkiller1.01> ls -l
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 22 1999 i386-slackware-linux/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 12 1995 i386-slackware-linux-gnuaout/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Aug 24 1999 i386-slackware-linux-gnulibc1/
drwxr-xr-x 13 root root 4096 Jan 3 23:27 slackware-install/
giles@lemur:~/bannerkiller1.01>
Why import English swill? Everyone knows that Anchor Liberty Ale is the finest ale ever to grace the tongue. Even Mr. Jackson is humbled in its presence.
What ale is proper to drink while installing Slackware, one named after a fish or one named for freedom?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Are you telling me that even business servers change their services on a regular basis?
No, I'm telling you they change them on an occasional basis.
Okay, I misunderstood you. So let me ask you this. If it takes five minutes to add a new service with SysV, and ten minutes to add a new service with Slack/BSD, but you only add a new service every few months or so, what difference does it make?
Wow! You don't get out much do you?
I suggest it mis you who needs to get out into the real world where companies actually change...
Heh! You admit you don't know anyone that uses Slackware, yet you're telling me I'm out of touch?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Are you telling me that it is a common occurance for people to install ssh, uninstall ssh, reinstall shh, and so on, on a frequent basis? Instead of making it easier for the user to perform these calisthenics, perhaps the best solution is to tell them to STOP!
Are you telling me that even business servers change their services on a regular basis? How often are companies going to install a new network service? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? How often do new network services even arrive on the scene?
Then again, I also know of nobody who actually uses Slackware...
Wow! You don't get out much do you?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
If you installed everything on Redhat using their blessed and glorious package manager, but neglected to install pthread, then tried to compile a program that requires it, it won't matter how bloody anal the package manager is about dependencies...
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Nah, just telling the truth *G* ..
It's not like slashdot doesn't have a "ooh, debian is sooo cool" article once a week..
hehe, well, every linux freak need to have one of those now and then :)
Just my opinion
-- DuckWing
> Really, from and end-user point of view there
> isn't much difference between 2.2.18 and 2.4.0.
Not if you are running on a Sony Vaio picturebook it isn't...
realkiwi
No, that's not what I said. I said Red Hat 7 has support for kernel 2.4. There is a 2.4-pre kernel on one of the discs, but it's never installed by default. What is used in Red Hat 7 is a 2.2 kernel. In fact, if you read my link, you will notice that it clearly says that Red hat 7 includes kernel 2.2.16. But you didn't read, did you?
Why does that not surprise me? *cough* GCC *cough*
I don't see your point here at all?
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
For those of you with carpal tunnel, simply cut and paste comments of your choice from previous slackware releases to save all that typing e.g. Slackware 7.1 stable released.
But seriously, I'm a slackware subscriber since '96 and I'm pleased to get a new release at the start of a long weekend. Perhaps I will even get both slack machines upgraded before the actual CDs arrive! With protopkg and other recent innovations I'm pretty excited about Slackware, but I really would have liked to see XFree 4.0something in there as an option at install time for my GeForce DDR.
Tee-hee this is _so_ funny.
Slashdot digs up a file with release n+1 version information in it. Just one text file. They immediately post it to the front page "release n+1" is released. This shows they have completely lost connectivity with the clue server. Then when they are shown up it's slackware that's being "rude" and resort to sarcasm. Jesus Christ that is so _fucking_ lame, not funny at all actually. Note, I don't usually swear much. And shame on me for believing them and increasing their page hits in their shabby discussion forum.
I use mandrake 7.2 w/ a voodoo 3 2000 and the opengl accel is pretty crappy by default. Compared to XFree 3.3.6 w/glide. Will the DRI module fix this?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
You need to download the threads libraries or source and compile it in with the c libraries. Then your program should compile, or at least come up with another error.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
What are you smoking? Haven't you heard of 'testing' and 'unstable'?! They allow you to run cutting edge software which is (in case of 'testing') still kind of stable.
All the same, I like Slack. I run SuSE on my desk because I like the toys, and I run Slack on my servers where the only toys I want are the ones I install myself.
Announcing Slackware Linux 7.1!
The first major release for 2000, Slackware Linux 7.1 builds...
Until that file announces Slackware 7.2, it has NOT been released. It hasn't even been released as beta yet!! Do you think any major distro would release something without releasing a beta beforehand?
What it looks like is happening is Patrick and the rest of the Slackware developers are preparing slackware-current, Slackware's developers release, to be released as a beta. This story on USENET, ummm I mean /., is a little premature.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Unusable for a moron. This is a good thing.
Thats what makes debian the best distro, the morons are scared of it and the s/n ratio increases 10 fold. Maybee more. I like not being an idiot, and not having to deal with any idiots trying to do stuff they dont want to understand.
Makes you wish you could use a distro with an OPEN development model, doesn't it? Something like debian . . .
See ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-cu rrent/GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT.TXT
Here's the text:
-----------------
Slackware 7.2 is NOT released.
Is this in the slackware-current, or slackware-7.2 directory?
Looks like slackware-current to me.
Wake up, do some REAL reporting (like, ask someone on our team), and
stop trying to get "fp!".
...should be about a month for the actual release.
- Pat
I'll never forget the first time I saw my TWM running on a 486 back in early 1994--or my disbelief that it was all free and with source. I was hooked ever since! Linux nostalgia--now there's something we have to worry about in 20 years :).
Now, I'm pretty much distribution agnostic, with Debian on one machine, Slack on an older machine, and Slack in a VMWare VM for which I assembled all the libraries and other dependencies to get Berlin running. But Slackware has a special place in my memory.
does it have the riva framebuffer support?
How we know is more important than what we know.
Thats what I always do.
- --[... The secret of the hanged man, the smile on his lips... ]-- -
Personally I'd like to see support (latest modutils ...) for kernel 2.4 in one of them
/.
If you want to run 2.4.0, why not read Documentation/Changes, download the things you need, compile them and get your shinny new kernel running?
After all it isn't too hard...
By the way, 2.4.0 is really amazing, I most liked the CPU selection and special the support for my new Sony Picturebook, the one with this transmeta CPU, I had a few problems getting X 4.0.2 running, it compiled fine but somehow I couldn't get the right Modeline for this 1024x480 Display in my XF86Config, at least I wrote a short mail to Linus, as I had read during my searches on the net, that he has one. I never thought he would have time to answer, but (wow) only two hours later I got an answer from him with his XF86Config and as you asume, as I had etited my conf and typed startx it started...:-)
Michael
I know a bit Off-topic but at least I had to write it on
I know exactly how shared libraries work. What you're saying about beos updating libraries while they are running is utter madness. Updating a library means that a program that start after the update is made will use the updated library. Those already running will not, they will keep using the old ones as long as they run. What ldconfig does is simply updating the name cache (/etc/ld.so.cache) which points to which file contains library X of version Y. The actual loading is done by the kernel and while most (all) libraries today are ELF they also share loading routines with the normal programs (ELF).
Actually, no. ld.so does the dynamic linking, attaching calls to their respective routines, but
the loading of the library itself is handled by a library loader in the kernel.
Whats the point tho? Why should the kernel have any support for refreshing library name caches? It's not like you automatically update libraries every 5 minutes and need a performance boost by including it into the kernel. Admin jobs should stay out of the kernel. If any code can be done easily outside the kernel it should be that way.
Next thing you know the argument will be that Linux kernel should include a GUI and a browser, simply because every other OS has it...
It is nice, however, to see Pat Volkerding putting some *RECENT* versions of software in his distribution, at least for the most part (XFree86 is a notable exception). It wasn't all that long ago that Pat & co. shipped packages that were 3, 4 or even more versions old...
XFree 4.0.1 is in the contrib directory... is that old?
If you want 4.0.2 you can go to http://www.xfree86.org and download it.
Orrrr you can grab a slackware package from http://www.linuxmafia.org/
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-cu rrent/GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT.TXT
Read that.
-------------
Peace Out [xplo]
In the wu-ftpd case the actual impact of the vulnaribilities depends on how the *distro* configures the program by default. In slackware's case, wu-ftpd was not configured for anonymous ftp with upload rights, so slackware was unexploitable by itself. I don't know how the other distro's come by default, though.
--[rosso bright]--
Slackware 7.2 is NOT released. Is this in the slackware-current, or slackware-7.2 directory? Looks like slackware-current to me. Did anyone but me notice this in the /current?
-------------
Wake up, do some REAL reporting (like, ask someone on our team), and
stop trying to get "fp!". ...should be about a month for the actual release.
- Pat
We are all Gods unwanted children. Did you ever consider he may hate you too?
That's exactly what it is! A distribution! It doesn't try to play OS and do everything for you. It's just a plain, simple, pure distribution. Sure, they might change some of the compile options for their packages, but they don't change anything in the actual source.
Fewer security holes? They all have the same number since they generally use the same programs. This is one area that bothers me, people brag about slackware being "more secure" than the other distros. Security problems aren't distro specific, they are in the actual programs, that the distros use. Take for instance the several Wu-ftpd security holes in the past. These were in every distro that used wu-ftpd.
They had a chance to be professional? You mean, like slashdot?
They told off someone who needed to be told off, and for that, I applaud them. Slashdot doesn't deserve a "professional" response.
Wow, and here I was thinking that Slackware and, of course, the BSDs were the true domain of the intellectual elitists and snobs. Didn't realize Debian users were getting in on the act, too.
I don't know what rock you've been under, but the party line that Slashdot robotically mouths is Debian. Not Slackware, Debian. This was a quote from someone else.
I say don't dignify someone who hasn't earned professionalism (and has, in fact, earned the opposite) with any sort of professionalistic behavior.
That's what I like: a distro that isn't afraid to thumb their noses at slashdot and tell them that their method of "report story, find out truth of story, report truth of story as another story as if you were mislead," is bunk. Any linux distribution which has representatives who are willing to tell slashdot off, man, that's a distro with balls. If slackware weren't already my distro, I might actually try it over this.
I'm still waiting for an FTP install! I love slack, but I don't have the time to download and burn an ISO...and I'd rather not buy any CDs.
-rodent
Interesting. Another BeOS and Slackware fan around. Looks like the best things keep sticking together. Bet you liked Princess Mononoke, too!
Sigged!
Get Slackware, install all relevant libraries out there.
Then, decide what kinda software you want, go out there, and grab the source, and compile from source. Nothing easier than that. If something dosen't compile, at least u know it wun work on ur comp, and u're missing something.
> Really, from and end-user point of view there isn't much difference between 2©2©18 and 2©4©0©
Clearly you don't work very much with firewalls©
25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
More comment from the Slackware team, Pat promises he wont be *rude* next time :)
Oh, BTW, PKB michael.....
--
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
>Hey pinhead, the italics in a story are the >words of the author (not a /. person). Thus,
>they are the author's opinion, not a statement
>or indication (necessarily) of fact.
I think he's complaining about the fact that none of the people who are in charge of sticking the submitted stories on the Slashdot site actually verify any of the stories. It IS annoying, and it IS the responsibility of Slashdot to make sure that what they choose to post is accurate.
I laughed pretty hard when I saw the headline claiming the Slackware 7.2 was released after I took 20 seconds to check Slackware.com and their FTP site to see if it was true. Not a lot of effort to check these things, people...
AFAIK, it is the only distro with a BSD-style /etc/rc.d rather than the mess'o'symlinks SysV-style. That makes administration much easier to learn without depending on a tool like `linuxconf`.
Perhaps it's easier to learn, but definately not easier to use.
If you just look at the SysV scripts without having a clue why they're set up that way, it might take a while to figure the logic out, but if you spend 2 minutes r'ing tfm, it's quite clear.
Once you know what's going on, it's so easy to decide that you do or don't want to run a service any more. Just run chkconfig on RedHat or update-rc.d on Debian. No script editing required. Starting or stopping a service at an arbitrary time is easier, too.
Most importantly, startup of unrelated programs is done in separate script files, so it's easy for a package to supply the scripts to do so -- just plunk the file in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d, and run chkconfig or update-rc.d to make the symlinks. And to uninstall, just do the opposite. How much fun would it be to do that in BSD-style? How many broken scripts would result?
Personally, I don't understand all the criticism of SysV-style. Not from an ease-of-use perspective, at least.
yes, it is. Exactly what I did when I wasn't in the mood to fuck around with the installation of the latest modutils once. And it worked just fine
So 2.2.18 is all most people need? Maybe, but I'd have expected a little bit more "neophilia" from a person reading /. :p
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't know any other distribution that uses 2.2.18 yet (well, any other major distribution). SuSE doesn't, Red Hat doesn't etc. ...) for kernel 2.4 in one of them
Personally I'd like to see support (latest modutils
Maybe you have heard of Mandrake?
yes, of course.
The Cooker distro from Mandrake has both, 2.2.18 and 2.4.0
sorry, I didn't know that they have both the final 2.2.18 and 2.4.0.
And Cooker IS the best linux distro by far.
Wanna start the Linux distro war *g*. I think debian's far better than Mandrake will ever be. But I am sure Mandrake's the best Linux distribution for the desktop around. Well, I guess enough people discussed it before, so let's stop with this.
throw them in the air, and ask your user to turn off all the ones they don't need- and then they can cut some firewood. That seems to be the problem with most of the other distributions I've seen lately- there's no room for a security error, because you'll either screw yourself trying to turn it off, or someone will walk through the backdoor when you're not looking. IMHO, the only reason I go for Slackware (for a personal box, not a network [yet]) is the difference between having to patch 50 problems and 8 problems.
This was ALSO the same reason I turned to Debian before Redhat, SUSE, etc., as well. Neither distribution forces you to be bleeding-edge unless you PUSH THE BLADE . . .
But, everyone has their own values, and makes their own choices. On our campus, there have been huge problems with security lately- hence, my values and my choices.
Well sorry, yoda!
On another note; where I live (Vancouver, Canada) weed is really really really really really cheap. Its not like I smoke any of it though, anyone who needs drugs to make them feel happy/sad/num/depressed/excited/mellow has problems.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Hey, dependency checking does not work as intended in red hat either! Diff in names and stuff mess things up for the beginners anyway...
Slackwares way is better: Let the sysadmin do the thinking.
Ring brother, ring for me | Ring the bells of hope and faith
Ring for my damnation | I am at the gallows end
I have used Redhat, then SuSE in the past. I have also tried Mandrake, TurboLinux, Caldera and Corel Linux and others. But now I run Slackware, I have learned how to compile from source and use CVS so that I can have the newest software RIGHT NOW. I guess I don't like/trust automated tools to do things for me. Sometimes packages are nice, but often they are out of date, week, month, few months and in Linux World programs can change fast. I have tried Debian before and have to say that it is very high quality software, but I found dselect hard to use and confusing. This is the only distribution that I would switch to in the future. SuSE is nice too, with the amount of programs it comes with. However, they want $ for the Full version and only the personal is for free (last time I checked). Yast is a nice SuSE tool, but I rather do things by hand, and learn how they work.
This space intentionally left blank.
I have thus far, had no luck installing Slackware on my visual workstation . Pete, if you could send me info on where you got that idea, or anyone has a link...it'd be much appreciated. Thanks :)
debian 2.2r2 comes with 2.2.18pre21 and debian woody (what i run) had its modutils .deb updated the day after 2.4 was released. I'm running 2.4.0 on my box with my usb mouse and joystick, and devfsd (also apt-getable) and riva fb support, its nice having a 1600x1200 console :)
if you like rpm, get debian and see the wonders of apt-get, you will never look back.
If you check the actual site, you will notice a file called "GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT.TXT" that says: Slackware 7.2 is NOT released.
Are you even reading what I'm writing? With slackware packages, it's impossible to tell what packages they depend upon. That is AFAIK determined in the installer, not the packages themselves.
:)
I love slackware and I think it's great. It's the most stable and secure distro I know of. I just think that autoslack is a mistake
Stop the brainwash
I've made this point before, and I'll make it again. The slackware package format does not support dependencies. That is CRITICAL. The autoslack thing then seems a mistake. What if one of the packages you have installed all of a sudden gains a new dependency. What used to work, will overnight stop to work - or you will be unable to take advantage of a significant new feature. The thing with debian, is that you can leave apt-get do its thing, and as long as you're a potato, you can be pretty frickin sure it all works the next morning.
</whore>
Stop the brainwash
Slackware had the chance to point out Slashdot's error in a professional manner, but instead chose to do it in a snotty-toned txt file on their ftp server. Sloppy journalism or bratty Linux distro, choose your evil.
--------
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
I don't know much about Slackware, but if you've used it for 6 years, then you may have a lot of extra, unneeded files on your disc drive. In light of reports that compiling does work on the latest versions of Slackware, I'd suggest backing up your data, wiping your disc drive clean, and installing the latest version afresh. In any case, good luck.
I am not a lawyer.
Your attempt to falsely link racism to anonymous posts is transparent and futile.
I am not a lawyer.
IMHO, racism is a crutch for weakminded angry people.
I am not a lawyer.
It's about time someone actually told Slashdot to look into things before they post them, instead of just putting up any story that anyone and their brother sends in.
And while I'm on the subject, I hate when Slashdot says they've "covered" a story, when all they do is paste a URL to a real news agency's -- that does reporting and EDITING -- coverage of something.
One of the many things I hate. thingsihate.org
Actually, Mandrake 7©2 *should* boot just fine© It's got Andre Hedrick's IDE patches applied to it's default 2©2©17 kernel which probably will boot your new box© That stuff is native to the 2©4 kernel series and requires no additional patching© Works great on my Promise UDMA 66 controller© HTH
No thanks. I don't smoke anymore.
that is so funny. it will be a month or so for 7.2.
I think I may consider switching to slack at some point, since i'm in that club "...you always remember your first".
but i'm hoping for a distro that has an ISO with:
--dependency checking pkg mgmt
--3dfx/nvidia/DRI/DRM/XFree4.0.2
--kernel 2.4
--ximian desktop
--nautilus
--mozilla
...tired of patching and running around to get all this working.
---
S.D.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
This slackware guys alwasy amazes me!
Who exactly is this "michael" person to be giving any commentary on someone like Pat, who has given so much to the community? As far as I can tell, all michael has giving to the community is his views as a petty pain in the ass.
Someone at Slashdot owes Pat an apology, such "reporting" is turning Slashdot into what I call "Fuddot - Rumors for Nerds, Stuff that draws hits." I thought that's what the Onion and BBSpot were for?
slackware 3.0 was the first distro i ever tried, i liked it because i was able to get online, whereas when i tried redhat, i kept hearing "oh, its so easy to get online with redhat & linuxconf!" ppphhffffffttthhhh! fuck that, i never once got redhat to dial up and stay connected and it would only resolve IP's (i was a newbie, i didnt know about /etc/resolv.conf) so i went back to slackware and running in 256 color mode, untill i found out about the 'startx -- -bpp 16' command. =) after that i was a happing slack-camper. slackware has taught me more about linux/unix then redhat ever would have! so a big thank you to the slackware(3.3 on) team since 97!!!
Privacy? Not in this lifetime.
Typical unfounded "news" posted here just so Rob and crew can feel like they have a real news service. Try reading first.
WAR!
I'm the Director of Operations for a mid-sized company managing ~80 servers, ~500 workstations...
/etc/init.d and a link in the appropriate rc?.d directory. It would be a royal pain to try and use sed or some other method to edit each independant bsd style rc file since each machine can have different requirements.
If I want to install a service on all servers that are web servers (20 out of 80) for example, I can run a script that adds the service to all those machines by adding a file to it's
By automating the administration of all these machines with a series of scripts and cronjobs, I can manage this large number of machines with only 2 sysadmins.
If you think about larger groups of machines where each machine can have one / several roles, it makes more sense. I used to prefer the BSD style rc system until I had to start dealing with large numbers of machines.
If you are only managing one machine however, I still find the BSD style easier - but once you get used to sysv style, you will probably want to stick with it for consistencies sake even with one machine.
Man, this could get me back from Debian. Slackware was my first distro, and you never forget your first...
Right. My first was slackware as well. I'll never forget the pain of not having real package management. I'll never forget how happy I was when I dumped it for RedHat (this was years ago, before RedHat became RootHat).
My progression, in about two years, went from:
Slack -> RedHat -> Debian Goodness (still here!)
Debian is like crack.
are you fukin coding here??? do u work on the layout job at /.? NOO soo u know what?? shuttt the fuck up and goto sleep punk
Istigkeit -"is-ness" being and becoming & i'dfiying it with the mathematical abstraction of the idea
but I don't know any other distribution that uses 2.2.18 yet
It could come with kernel 1.0 for all I care. It's not like I'm going to use the pre-built one anyway.
If Debian is so great....
You'll be wishing you never made that comment after you've actually learned enough about Linux to know how to use it.
surely this is the best way to roll out new distributions to new users...
i mean - people will probably download a 650mb ISO when all they need is maybe 10mb worth of source code changes
downloading an ISO or entire source trees is excessive and a waste of slackware's money
it was fairly easy for me to install and i'm pretty negroe-ish.
http://www.nakedandfree.com
But it wasn't Slashdot, that was a quote from the submitter. That's why it's in italics.
I realize that. My point is that most Linux people (like the submitter) are no better than "an army of thoughtless marketing droids."
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Now what's the difference? they all rely on the same linux-kernel, you know. so basicly they are the same. stop fighting over it.
ound the message used repetitively over and over still nothing grows silen
The only thing that I can think of to say about a new Slackware dsitro is the fact this its a three day weekend. I just logged into /. and man I could not be happier. When the 2.4 Kernel released between home and work I was in front of the machine for 20 hours straight. Better make some coffee and settle in for a long weekend.
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
Its still in the current directory therefore it is not an official release.
FearLinux.com
Doh! Just burned 7.1!
Anyway, imho, slackware gets the best of freebsd and linux, combining them into one package. It usees the same packaging system as freebsd and support for rpms. I have used slackware on my system, the only problem I have had was fixing some problems with symbolic links.
I think we established earlier that comparing prices without comparing quality. What we need it a system like there is in the EU for loads of food items.
For example, jam <translation lang = US>jelly</translation> is called "Extra jam" if it has more than a certain percentage of fruit.
What we want is the EU to spend some of our taxes on developing a similar system for weed, based on the THC levels of the produce. Fairness and transparency at last for the weed-smoking public. It could then be adopted as an ISO standard, and the traveller need never be in the dark again when it comes to puchasing their favourite herbs in foreign lands.
You need a new dealer. Or let us know who you get your gold from.
Gold finished last week at $268 an ounce. Good weed finished last week at around £160 ($235) an ounce. Solids are around half that.
Can anyone post a copy of THIS_IS_NOT_A_BETA_EITHER.TXT? It seems to have disappeared from the server.
cheers.
arnald
AAARRRGGGHHHH, and just when i'd finished d/ling 7.1!
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Then i started looking at BSDs and ended up finding an old copy of redhat 5, installing it really minimalistically, and doing things properly, and not just fvcking around with things like linuxconf all the time.
This made me REALLY love linux, and i quite soon mastered it. So to get an up to date distro i got slack 7.1, which i found to eally stable reliable slim and great. i mean, things actually compile properly. I havent found one thing which doesnt yet.
I would really recomment this approach to the newbie.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Or would you Slashdot guys rather have closed development over at Slackware?
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Patrick 4 president!
Slackware rules!
This sig is intentionally left blank
rpm? Heh. apt-get? Heh. A Jedi craves not these things...
End of lesson. You may press the button.
Debian is like crack.
Yeap, it rots your brain... My first distro was slack... Later I tried to install Debian on my laptop, but it wouldn't load the right module for my network card. And of course, it wouldn't compile the driver supplied by the manufacturer because wonderful lovely apt-get stuck the PCMCIA source in some weird place. Screw it, got slack back, installed it, installed PCMCIA support, had the thing up and running in X in about half an hour. apt-get is great... FOR ME TO POOP ON!
End of lesson. You may press the button.
HAHAHAHA. I said I started READING /. a year ago, so what if I didn't register or start posting till later. talk about a retard.
make that /. not ./ =)
I'm so glad that the next Slackware version is finally out...And kids, it may not be what's in the distro that makes people love it.
Slackware 7.2 is NOT released. Is this in the slackware-current, or slackware-7.2 directory? Looks like slackware-current to me. Wake up, do some REAL reporting (like, ask someone on our team), and stop trying to get "fp!". ...should be about a month for the actual release.
- Pat
xcyber """"""Complexity for the sake of complexity is not a solution, neither is simplicity for the sake of simplicity
I like how a story can be updated before it's written. At the very least, it reminds me that there's someone suffering from an alarm clock somewhere in the world...
What's this Submit thingy do?
So what you are saying is that Red Hat bundled 2.4 before Linus decided it was ready?
Why does that not surprise me? *cough* GCC *cough*
You do realize that all you needed to download was the slackware-current/slakware directory to be up-to-bleeding-edge-date?
It's ~425 megs.
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!! Slackware and Bass Ale, perfect together! hmmm...I'm getting thirsty!
This is not a Fugazi
Speaking of journalism, you misspelled Death...
Slackware 7.2 has modutils 2.4.0 I'd imagine -- slackware-current from a few days ago had it.
Although the Kernel and the gnu programs minimize the differences between different "linuxes", the distribution itself also makes differences. There are distributions that concentrates in the final user, distributions that try to do it cleaner, etc...
You should try various distributions and select the one with which you feel more confortable.
David González
Maybe they should remove this file or clarify it... ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/slackware/slackware -current/README72.TXT
I started using slackware at 3.6(yes i know for alot of people that is relatively new user)
slackware is the best... at what?
i find debian to be much much better
apt is still much better than the program slackware uses(ive tried it)
also, little bug reports != little amount of bugs
id much rather know about an obscure in-theory bug than have it hidden from me
as for debian being out of date, i have xfree4, kde2 etc.. just run unstable if you want latest releases
alot of people say that debian will be first distribution with 2.4 kernel, then they also say that it is outdated!
"...the best linux distro out there..."
Doesn't this article sound a little like -1 Flamebait?Well according to the link you posted (securityfocus), MasOS is the most secure platform.... Could that be true?
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
Does Slackware have dependencies yet? I know they have somewhat of a package system, but if they don't have dependencies the packaging system is kinda worthless. That's the main reason I use Debian over Slackware.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
So anyone mind telling me why I should install a distribution that doesnt have XFree 4.0.2 or kernel 2.4.x? Those are the improvements that im waiting for (amongst other) before I install a new distro..
nod. I just checked over the -current directory, pat says slashdot needs to get a clue. ;)
The argument that SysV is easier than BSD setup is laughable at best. At my dayjob I'm the release manager for a large BSD based project. It's easy as pie, you edit rc.conf, reboot, and that's how the configuration program works.
This isn't to say that SysV is harder, instead of editing one file, you create some symlinks. Slightly more convoluted than setting a variable to expand to YES or NO, but certainly feasible.
To this point, there's another guy who takes care of the Linux portion of our product, and he has no troubles either. This with both of us having thousands servers 'round the world.
The fact of the matter is, if you can't handle any given startup method, you probably shouldn't be working on the servers. Maybe you should consider making a powerpoint presentation, showing your expected decrease in defects/KLOC after all projects are written in Java, or something. I've heard rumours that directors are good at that kind of thing.
--
"Don't trolls get tired?"
Because I can either write code that detects that status change (instead of just forcing the new status into config), shuts down daemons appropriately, and reconfigures firewall rules, etc, then send that through system integration, then through QA, or I can reboot. Given that the former would probably cost about $100k/release, just rebooting saves around $400k/year, in exchange for (literally) about 10 CPU seconds. Given that the cost/CPU second is fractions of pennies, it's a pretty easy choice.
--
"Don't trolls get tired?"
There's even a response to michael's whiny, petulant updated message.
THIS_IS_NOT_A_BETA_EITHER.TXT
And it comes with kernel... 2.2.18! Some things never change, and I am glad it works that way.
I for one would have lost respect for Slackware, or any other distribution, had it shipped with 2.4.0. Excepting "bleeding-edge" distributions, does anyone really expect distributions to ship a x.y.0 of any kernel? Do we always have to be so divisive?
I'm still running test10 (or maybe 11) on my box, and I'm looking forward to having the time to try 2.4.0 out. But that doesn't mean I want it in any distros yet as part of the default installation.
-Cutt
Redhat 7.0 dosen't include the 2.4 kernel.
Redhat 7.0 is 2.4 READY.
There is a lonely box sitting in the other room. This may be the perfect excuse for popping the top of a refreshing cold one.
:)
Saturday morning, Slack Linux and cold beer from a glass bottle.
if slackware is the best distrobution, macos is the best operating system!
i think it's funny how slashdot can claim to be an unbiased news source when personal opinions are so freely interspersed with the stories!
------------
a funny comment: 1 karma
an insightful comment: 1 karma
a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
unfortunatly for me (Voodoo3 3k, CL5446 dual heads) when I have the AGPPART and the DRI stuff compiled in, Netscape crashes just about constantly freezing the keyboard and forcing a reboot (either hard or from a remote session). I hear that this is fixed in 2.4.0 revisions but I haven't had the time or desire to download them... Maybe 2.2.18 doesn't include these problems but I know 2.4.0 does.
> you dont have the pthread library installed. Go get it, install it and try again. This is nothing like the trouble you have getting stuff to compile on *BSD.
The original poster provided us a specific example. Perhaps you could be so kind as to do the same.
--
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
> Also, somebody on here posted: "The thing that utterly frustrates me is that NOTHING COMPILES!" -- I've never had a problem compiling programs on Slackware. In fact, programs I could never get to compile correctly on Red Hat, Mandrake, etc. work just fine on Slack.
.tgz should specify a pthread dependency somehow, and if it doesn't, that's a bug.
In support circles this is called "WFM", stands for "works for me". It's a perfectly good state for a problem to be in, but problems in a "WFM" state are considered *open* (often closed as "Cannot Reproduce" when the user can't make the problem come back). If the Linux community really cares about support by and for its users, it might want to try solving problems that require a little investigation. In this case, the problem is caused by a missing pthreads dependency, the sort of thing which, incidentally, packaging systems were designed to solve. Even the
--
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
While you're frothing at the mouth flaming away, proud of your own correctness, note that slackware uses ".tgz" as its package format. It's like jar, it's a tarball with a manifest of some sort. Dumbass.
--
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If they want to be rude about it, don't cover them any more.
-
What you described above is the exact same as RedHat's Rawhide thingie, thus we may imply that RedHat's development model is open too, right?
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
You're delusional, aren't you?
It requires a database (databases are evil!) to track packages, it doesn't mesh well with compiled software, it has stupid dependency management,
Databases are evil? Care to cite a few reasons, or is it just that you don't understand them?
and it takes too much control away from the user.
You really are delusional. What control does an RPM take away from the user? You do realize you can still build RPMs from source, right?
How is anything in Slack 7.x NOT recent? They're glibc 2.2.3-based distros, and Slack 7.1 was the first distro to come with a KDE2 beta.
Let me suggest a course in reading comprehension. Go back and read what I wrote again. I pointed out one package from slackerware 7.2 that is old, but harkened to the days when half of the packages were 3 or 4 versions old.
--
The unsig!
Which circular dependencies are those? Oh, you're probably one of those people that can't manage to grasp the concept of installing two mutually-dependent packages at the same time solves this "problem".
While KDE on RedHat is a mess of a dozen RPMs, the same thing on Slackware is kde2.tgz.
Not a fan of modularity, or a maintainable package model, eh? Slack's fine for one or two machines, when you go beyond that, it's a nightmare to maintain. Consistent package management is key. Doesn't matter if you're talking about RedHat, Mandrake, Debian, SuSE, or even one of the "fringe" distributions like Connectiva or Immunix. All of those have good working package models. I'm sorry, but tar and gzip does NOT constitute a packaging system.
It is nice, however, to see Pat Volkerding putting some *RECENT* versions of software in his distribution, at least for the most part (XFree86 is a notable exception). It wasn't all that long ago that Pat & co. shipped packages that were 3, 4 or even more versions old...
--
The unsig!
If it uses the same kernel as the rest? The best distro is always the one that you like the most. Not what the guy next to you says is the best.
The only time this is not true is if you don't know anything about linux or distros. Then you have to trust your friend that knows more than you do to choose a distro for you.
How often are you going to change your services? Once, at install. After that you don't touch them anymore. If you know SysV style, it's easier. If you know BSD style, it's easier.
It depends on where you're coming from. Some people think shuffling symlinks around is easiest. Others think commenting and uncommenting lines of shell script is easiest.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
They got hacked because of *pilot error*, not because of any current insecurity in Slackware. They simply forgot to apply a fix to a running server.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Never having administered more than two machines at a time, I am no where nearly as qualified as you on this topic.
But there are many ways to to "bsd" style scripts. Slackware does it one way. FreeBSD does it another. Under FreeBSD all local configurations are captured in rc.conf and rc.local. rc.conf is simply a list of options, where later options can override new options. Creating a script to add a new line at the end of rc.conf is trivial. I don't know how the other BSDs do it, but this method gives you the best of both worlds.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
At first look, it appears to be rude. However, consider your average slashdot effect. When you have 10K+ people start complaining that something is wrong with a release you haven't even released yet.... I actually thought it was a pretty funny response. Put a text file where it WON'T be missed, whereas a comment wouldn't be read by half the people even if it was +5 moderated.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Wed Jan 10 12:46:50 PST 2001
(* security fix *)
glibc-2.2 contains a local vulnerability that affects all setuid root binaries. Any user on affected systems will be able to read any file on the system through a simple process: The user sets the RESOLV_HOST_CONF environment variable to the name of the file that they wish to read, then runs any setuid root program that makes use of that variable. The file is then written to stderr.
a1/glibcso.tgz: Patched sysdeps/generic/unsecvars.h to fix the problem with RESOLV_HOST_CONF, and also to add HOSTALIASES to the list. (this change is noted in glibc-CVS)br> d1/glibc.tgz: Patched sysdeps/generic/unsecvars.h as above.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
you dont have the pthread library installed. Go get it, install it and try again. This is nothing like the trouble you have getting stuff to compile on *BSD.
How we know is more important than what we know.
We have the posix standard so we dont have to port between different variants of unix. Am I right?
How we know is more important than what we know.
The security comparison URL is here. Caveat lector
/etc/passwd, permissions, crontabs and the other configurations it makes or simply not installing some questionable pgms by default.
Agreed that most of the vulnerabilities are associated with the programs themselves. Newer versions fix old holes, but may make new ones.
The distro can influence the final result by
I've been a slackware user for 6 years now, and I love the distribution. The "minimalist" approach, and compiling and configuring your won server appeals to me for reasons that will probably be reiterated many times here.
The thing that utterly frustrates me is that NOTHING COMPILES! I'm not sure which iteration of Slackware I'm using (current circa March 1999), and unless I'm compiling from GNU source I seem to be missing some obscure library that's pre-installed on RedHat and missing from Slackware. I'm not sure if its a libc vs glibc thing, but it's getting extremely frustrating and has made me consider shictching to another distro (likely Debian) the next time I install.
OK, all of this is just Troll unless I can back it up. Let me go pull something from freshmeat and watch it not compile.
OK,I admit it, it took me until my third try to find something that wouldn't compile for me. Must be a good day.
I picked at random "BannerKiller". We've been having problems at work and need a simple dumb web proxy.
phobos:tbradley:~/bannerkiller1.01> make
(cd src; make)
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/tbradley/bannerkiller1.01/src'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c proxy.c -o proxy.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c gestion.c -o gestion.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c connexion.c -o connexion.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c filtre.c -o filtre.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c utilsText.c -o utilsText.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
cc -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DDEBUG -c utils.c -o utils.o
cc: unrecognized option `-pthread'
utils.c: In function `startThread':
utils.c:29: `pthread_attr_t' undeclared (first use this function)
utils.c:29: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
utils.c:29: for each function it appears in.)
utils.c:29: parse error before `attr'
utils.c:30: `attr' undeclared (first use this function)
make[1]: *** [utils.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/tbradley/bannerkiller1.01/src'
make: *** [all] Error 2
phobos:tbradley:~/bannerkiller1.01>
OK, now, probably this isn't a good example; someone will be able to point out something I'm doing wrong or that the software I'm trying to compile is crap. Perhaps so. But often I see something cool I want to try out that flops horribly on Slackware.
Should I jump distros, or become more realistic about what constitutes good source, and not try to compile everything I see on freshmeat? Would upgrading to Slackware 7.2 be a good choice for me in the future?
Which circular dependencies are those? Oh, you're probably one of those people that can't manage to grasp the concept of installing two mutually-dependent packages at the same time solves this "problem". .01% of the population will install seperately.
>>>>>>>>>
Why does everyone assume that when I complain about a problem in Linux, I can't fix it? I've been using RPM quite a lot. I can figure out how to type rpm -i XFree86*.rpm in order to install all the circularly dependant packages. It is still a stupid idea. If two packages depend on each other, they should come as one package. Given the huge amount of bandwidth available these days, there is no excuse for KDE to come as a dozen different packages that only
Not a fan of modularity, or a maintainable package model, eh? Slack's fine for one or two machines, when you go beyond that, it's a nightmare to
maintain.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Slack's a pain to maintain? How? I don't know what experiences you have (I'm not a sysadmin and proud of it) but I see RPM's "modularity" as a stupid splitting of of stuff that really shouldn't. Modularity does not refer to splitting stuff up for the hell of it. There has to be a good reason for doing so. Its like if Linus seperated out the Linux VM into a seperate module. You can't use a different VM with a particular kernel, and in order to use the kernel, you have to load the VM. So what's the point of splitting the two up?
Consistent package management is key. Doesn't matter if you're talking about RedHat, Mandrake, Debian, SuSE, or even one of the "fringe" distributions like Connectiva or Immunix. All of those have good working package models. I'm sorry, but tar and gzip does NOT constitute a packaging system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
RPM is not a packaging system. It is a POS created by people who obviously hate you. It requires a database (databases are evil!) to track packages, it doesn't mesh well with compiled software, it has stupid dependency management, and it takes too much control away from the user. That's why the packaging system I'm writing for BeOS will (hopefully) offer the power of a packager without all the crap in stuff like RPM.
It is nice, however, to see Pat Volkerding putting some *RECENT* versions of software in his distribution, at least for the most part (XFree86 is a notable exception). It wasn't all that long ago that Pat & co. shipped packages that were 3, 4 or even more versions old...
>>>>>>>>>>
How is anything in Slack 7.x NOT recent? They're glibc 2.2.3-based distros, and Slack 7.1 was the first distro to come with a KDE2 beta.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I don't think you quite understand how shared libraries work. The reason BeOS includes this stuff in the kernel is not to boost performance, but because library loading is closely tied to program loading (programatically they are quite similar) and by putting both in the kernel you can share the common code for both. The BeOS feature I was referring to requires some knowledge of shared libraries. When a shared library is loaded, the code has to be relocated to whatever memory addresses are free. This is a time consuming job, so the dynamic linker caches the results of this process in memory. However, when the library changes, these caches have to be updated. BeOS supports all the symantics of correctly updating libraries as they are changed by the system. None of this requires any user intervention (like running ldconfig) and is handled transparently by the system. Its mainly the difference between a process that should be automatic, but is implemented as a manual one in Linux. (Just like module loading, but lets not go there...)
;)
As for the GUI and browser, BeOS is a microkernel. It even implements networking in userspace. I think positively ugly that Linux implements stuff like audio in kernel space
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Sorry. I missed the announcement of Sony's Linux-based IA. Since Sony is using this very dead OS in its eVilla IA I'm sure it has one based on the very not-dead LinuxOS, right?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Actually, the think the actual loading (at least on most *NIXs, I don't know about Linux) is done by ld.so.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
It's not the same thing. Clumping all employee data together makes sense (since they all work at the same company) Different applications are totally unrelated, and their configurations should be kept seperate, but accessible from the same place. For instance, that's how the internet works. All the webpages aren't put on a central server. Instead, they're spread out and a common broker (DNS) allows you to access them from a central point. Stupid analogies aside, the fact remains that the only reason RPM and Windows keep a central registry of data is because that's the easy thing to do. Getting rid of that central registry, however, complicates things for the package manager designer (unless you've got great OS support, the reason I don't use a central DB is because the API's in BeOS make this method simpler for me ;) but frees the user from having to worry about database consistancy, or having to worry about what "going behind the tool's back" will do to their system. Think, for example, why you can't just delete a directory to uninstall an application. Apps litter your registry (Windows) or your home or /etc directory (UNIX) or you /config/settings directory (BeOS) with configuration data. Instead, if all configuration data was kept local the app, but the system provided a central access point for that data, you could just delete a directory and be done with it. Yet, you'd have the central access through the tools. Decide that you want to change the name of the app directory? In Windows, you have to reinstall, in Linux you have to reinstall, with a decentralized system, you just change the name.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I stand corrected, defeated, and humiliated ;) The point still stands that requiring a user-level program to ferret out library names is stupid.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
ldconfig was, and they laughed as I explained it... until I told them they'd be rebooting on an MS box at that step.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Except not really. Every other OS in the world is smart enough to automatically register DLLs without running programs like ldconfig. Without rebooting even. In fact, I was reading on article on dynamic linkng a few days ago, and they talked about how BeOS goes to great lengths to make sure that the cached and on-drive copies of DLLs are the same, and can add DLLs on the fly and have the relocated images updated.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
You're delusional, aren't you?
/boot/apps/app, then all the dependency info, version info, the description, update information, author, etc, is stored within the attributes of the /boot/apps/app folder. The folder is given a special key attribute, and every time I need to locate a dependency, I just search for that key and get the correct folder. The only centralized info is a cache of common searches. This is better than a centralized database for several reasons:
>>>>>>>
Good drugs.
Databases are evil? Care to cite a few reasons, or is it just that you don't understand them?
>>>>>>>>>
Right. I'm stupid. That is why I disagree with you. Grow up, jackass. I say databases are stupid when they are not used properly. Just as keeping a central database of all configuration data (the Windows registry) is stupid, keeping a central database of all files (locate) is stupid, and keeping a central database of all packages (RPM) is stupid. Package info should not be stored in one big database, but spread throughout a hierarchy and contained within the packages that they refer to. For example, I'm writing a package manager for BeOS. It has no central database. Instead, all dependency and package info is stored within the attributes of the folder where the package was installed. For example, if I install app.pkg to
A) No single point of failiure, and the importance of keeping the database's state correct dissapears.
B) Packages can be moved, removed, renamed, etc, without having to update a central database, or having to go through tools like RPM.
C) The user has total control over where packages are installed, and how dependencies are satisfied.
D) The user has access to this data through any tool that deals with the (system standard) attribute system. This is unlike RPM, where only software coded for the RPM database is useful in accessing its data.
While this would be harder to implement in Linux (which doesn't allow filesystem attributes) it wouldn't be terribly hard to emulate.
You really are delusional. What control does an RPM take away from the user?
>>>>>>>>>>
You don't get to decide which dependencies are filled, the package maintainers do. You don't get to decide where stuff is installed (not without breaking things anyway) the package maintainers do. You don't get to decide how your system configuration is updated, the package maintainers do.
You do realize you can still
build RPMs from source, right?
>>>>>>>>
That doesn't solve any of the problems I just mentioned.
Let me suggest a course in reading comprehension.
>>>>>>>>>>
Let me suggest a course in common courtesy.
Go back and read what I wrote again. I pointed out one
package from slackerware 7.2 that is old, but harkened to the days when half of the packages were 3 or 4
versions old.
>>>>>>>>>>>
When I say that the Debian distro is out of date, people tell me to go use -unstable. If you're telling me that Slackware is out of date, then I'm assuming you're talking about 7.x, because the previous versions are too different to warrent any consideration.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
How often are you going to change your services? Once, at install. After that you don't touch them anymore. If you know SysV style, it's easier. If you know BSD style, it's easier.
Er, no. If it's using a server, and you're working for a company that has a valid reason for installing a new network service [for example, an intranet or instant messenging server], fairly frequently. That's one of the advantages of Linux [compared to the NT world] - you can actually run more than one service on a machine and maintain stability [security is a different matter, and DMZ etc are still an important consideration].
For a desktop machine, all the time. Update monitoring tools, indexing tools for fast searches, ssh if you decide you need secure access to your CLI and GUI apps, etc. Desktop machines change services a lot.
And despite knowing a few hundred Linux users, I've rarely seen anyone actually do the symlinking behaind the scenes themselves. They just run whatever tool came with their distro [especially for business use - wasting time on your clients watch is not a good thing].
Then again, I also know of nobody who actually uses Slackware, apart from the odd IRC encounter. And everybody else knows Slackwares `packaging system' isn't [its a way of installing software and nothing more].
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Are you telling me that it is a common occurance for people to install ssh, uninstall ssh, reinstall shh, and so on, on a frequent basis?
No, I'm not. That is obvious. I'm saying people often add services after they've installed and set of their box, because they want to use those services.
A client of mine recently found a need for a external webmail server. This will be added as a service onto an existing box within their DMZ. The same client was also previously using sendmail to transfer mail between the internel mail server and the outside world. As sendmail runs as root [and should, thus, in my opinion, be uninstalled wherever it is encounted] sendmail was replaced with another, straight mail forwarding only service.
Another client recently replaced all their insternal sendmail servers with qmail. Again, this was after the machines were originally installed.
Is it that hard to grasp that a company might not be able to predict its future at the time its servers were installed, and may instead adjust their IT towards their own changing needs?
Instead of making it easier for the user to perform these calisthenics, perhaps the best solution is to tell them to STOP!
The users aren't performing calisthenics. They're doign what all good businesses to: acknowledging need and deficiency and adjusting their systems to meet those needs and address the deficiencies.
Are you telling me that even business servers change their services on a regular basis?
No, I'm telling you they change them on an occasional basis.
How often are companies going to install a new network service? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? How often do new network services even arrive on the scene?
Depending on the needs of the business. This ranges anywhere generally from yearly to bi-monthly, if you must know.
Wow! You don't get out much do you?
I suggest it mis you who needs to get out into the real world where companies actually change, and are smart enough to change their systems to meet those needs.
Grow up.
Umm, how long was there between Slink and Potato?
Debian is geneally a LOT more out-of-date then Slackware.
Carousel is a lie!
And so what do I see as the top story on /. the next day?
THIS!!!
Man if this is how my year's gonna go I may swear off keyboards. Damn damn DAMN!
The last thing we need is an army of thoughtless marketing droids.
You mean things like this? "The best Linux distro out there has just released a new version"
I'm always glad I can come to Slashdot for "valid, insightful opinions about features and technolology, rather than roboticly mouthing a party line."
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I prefer Slackware, because it is a "basic" linux. Unlike RedHat which has tons of excess stuff in it, Slackware is a pure (if you allow the expression) distribution. I guess Debian would be similar in this way, but it's latest distribution is always old... :)
My first taste of Linux was Debian. I hated it.
Next up was Redhat 4.2, 5.0 followed. After I hosed the libs with rpm, I was reinstalling in custom mode and decided I didn't want xscreensaver installed. If I am away from my computer, I just shut the monitor off - it uses less power that way.
The installer warned me that XFree86 REQUIRED xscreensaver, no problem I thought, no it doesn't I'll just continue and ignore it.
The installer quit at that point.
The Redhat guys had engineered xfree86 to require xscreensaver, user be damned.
That is when I decided to switch distributions.
Why would anyone care if it is still "beta" it's not going to get significantly more stable just because it is final, infact a lot of "stable" versions are more buggy than their beta counterparts. I frequently use beta and cvs builds, out of the few crashed I have had, they were on the supposably stable software.
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I'm a karma whore, mod me up damn you!
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58.0% slashdot corrupt
And all this time I've been thinking that this situation -- confusion about what is released and what is not -- was one that most reputable web sites avoided by utilizing new-fangled ideas such as "research".
----
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
2.2.18 is great, it has the AGPART stuff, the DRI modules and all of the USB backported!
This means that 3D Acceleration works with XFree86 4.x, so all of the newest games are a go!
Really, from and end-user point of view there isn't much difference between 2.2.18 and 2.4.0.
As for slack, never used it, but Debian Unstable sure is sweet!
Cheers,
Ben
/* Slackware says - rudely - that 7.2 isn't released yet. This situation - confusion about what is released and what is not - is one that most software developers avoid by utilizing new-fangled conventions such as "beta". */
Why shouldn't they be rude? Some linux-kiddie site presumes to announce their releases for them, when they're still working on it - I think it's reasonable to tell them to get lost. And what most software developers do is make a new-fangled "release announcement" when the release is ready. If slashdot would put even the *slightest* effort into verifying stories before they run them, these things wouldn't happen. Fuckwit.
-lx
Slackware, it's like that comfy pair of jeans that you have in the closet. Sure you could get a new pair, but you've broken them in. I will admit that in a work environment I'll grab the RedHat CD, but that's only because people look at you funny if you start compiling packages. In that environment I'm 'selling' Linux. At home, it's different.
I was showing a couple of MS consultants how to install a program that didn't have an RPM available on a redhat box. I did the 'make install' and then an ldconfig. One asked what the ldconfig was, and they laughed as I explained it... until I told them they'd be rebooting on an MS box at that step... There are people out there that still think anything with a command line is behind the times... But when I go to a W2K box, cmd still works. I think Slackware gets a lot of the same comments from other distrib users that Linux gets from Windoze users. Kinda odd.
As far as I'm concerned Slackware 7.2 isn't released until Slackware-current gets move to Slackware-[number] and the ISO folder gets created and populated.
Just because Patrick has put the README72 into the Slackware-current folder doesn't signify a release, impending or otherwise...
having said that... should I go into the office to download possibly available ISOs tomorrow.... hmmm...
Another silly person... Read the changelogs and you will see that this was fixed last wednesday...
I've been using Slackware since 1996, when I first started with Linux. I think, overall, it was and still is one of the best distros. I wouldn't recommend it to pure newbies, but it works great for me. I've tried numerous distros, including Red Hat, Caldera, Mandrake, and Storm Linux. None of those has worked as well for me as Slack -- they all had performance or security issues that did not please me.
:-)
One good example of why I like Slack better: the NVidia drivers. I could not get them to work on Red Hat 6.2 or 7.0. When they did work, they were very crashy. It also took forever to get them to a usable state. But when I dumped RH and put Slackware back on here, the drivers installed flawlessly in minutes.
Also, somebody on here posted: "The thing that utterly frustrates me is that NOTHING COMPILES!" -- I've never had a problem compiling programs on Slackware. In fact, programs I could never get to compile correctly on Red Hat, Mandrake, etc. work just fine on Slack.
I'm not saying Slackware is the best, but it's certainly ONE of the best, especially for server-side uses. Use what ya like; the other distros are good, but I'm sticking to Slack.
Debate is a healthy thing
And besides, people who are expert can even offer valid insightful opinions about features and technologies, rather than roboticly mouthing a party line.
The last thing we need is an army of thoughtless marketing droids.
"Check out this years' new color scheme!"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I thought Linux was about choice and freedom... I have [rustle, clatter, as he sifts through piles of CDs] five different distributions, all with their good and bad points.
Diversity is the fuel for evolution; let's quit arguing about "my distro is better than yours", and start working toward making Linux even better through competition.
Slashdot, BTW, should be ashamed for publishing an inaccurate (the release may not have happened yet) and biased (is Slackware really the best?) article. Get some journalism lessons, guys.
All about me
GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT
This sig intentionally left blank.
To tell the truth, I have found Slack to be the easiest Linux distro I've ever used. It doesn't do a lot of crap behind your back, it installs stuff where you tell it, and it has the cleanest /etc/rc.d. It also doesn't make you deal with the POS RPM, and all the stupid circular dependencies that come with it. While KDE on RedHat is a mess of a dozen RPMs, the same thing on Slackware is kde2.tgz.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Sorry Michael, if slackware made you guys look bad or called into question the "throughness" of your research, but you screwed up. Again.
They have to deal with the fallout of people writing and complaining to them that they can't find 7.2, or that 7.2 is broken because of YOUR incompetance. Maybe an appology is in order, instead of more name calling. Rude indeed.
(note: I'm both a Slackware and a Slashdot fan, but clearly the blame for all of this lies with you guys this time. Show some manners and integrity.)
Finkployd
GET_A_CLUE_SLASHDOT.TXT.
While you are at it, checkout the topic at #slackware on irc.openprojects.net.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Well if you would take the time to verify a story submission, they wouldn't have to tell you what a dumbass you are. They didn't use the word BETA because it has not been released as a beta yet.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
I too am a Slackware afficionado, but I wouldn't call Slackware the "best" without qualifying it. Nor would I call RedHat or Debian or ... the unqualified best.
/etc/rc.d rather than the mess'o'symlinks SysV-style. That makes administration much easier to learn without depending on a tool like `linuxconf`.
I certainly wouldn't call Slackware the best distro for newbies accustomed to MS-Windows and uninterested in learning the guts of Unix. That would be RedHat (or maybe Corel).
But Slackware has some unique features that probably make it the best distro for someone coming from BSD (or SunOS) or who wants to learn the guts of Unix.
Slackware runs a little behind the times in terms of program updates, but that also means that it has the fewest security holes (URL forgotten).
AFAIK, it is the only distro with a BSD-style
Slackware was my first and still my current distro of choice. I've tried others, they just don't compare.
Anyway, if you head on over to ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware you will see there is no slackware-7.2 directory yet and no announcement on www.slackware.com. All they did was update the README file in the slackware-current directory in _preparation_ of releasing the next version.