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Interesting Keyboard/Mouse Combo
Rimmel sent us a fairly hacked up keyboard/mouse combo. It's only a prototype, and the guy actually claims a patent on it (it's a split keyboard with a joystick. Let's not get full of ourselves ;) but he does have a lot of interesting notes on it, including timing notes to demonstrate that integrating the mouse this way is a speed gain. I'd tend to agree since I use a thinkpad with a mouse nipple half the time. Reaching for a mouse sucks, but the other half of that is playing a video game with anything besides a mouse is impossible.
Hahahahahahaha! Sorry, but from watching the video, it definetly looks like the right handed side of the keyboard will slide around much too easily for any form of speed typing..
A patent?! Well, maybe it's warranted, but again let's not get too full of ourselves..
--TooLazyToCreateAnAccountRightNow
kris at kukuvka.com
his particular mouse could probably be infinitely improved with a button on the keyboard that locks/unlocks movement of the mouseball as to be able to type easier in between mouse moves.
> Almost every good Quake player plays with
> the mouse.
Sigh. Another neophyte gamer who thinks Quake
is the end-all be-all of video games.
The mouse is good for SOME video games. Well, if you don't have a trackball, that is.
Read the article, the inventor here managed to keep the weight down to that of an Intellimouse (granted, the Intellimouse is easily the heavist mouse I've ever used). He didn't address my #2 concern (after the weight one of course): This looks a lot more fragile than your average mouse. Mice take quite of bit of punishment over their lifetime, and now this guy is attaching half of an ultralight keyboard to the nose of it and we are supposed to avoid banging it on every other thing littering our desks. Worse, he used a laptop keyboard, and laptop keyboards generally have terrible tactile feedback.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
I read the internet for the articles.
--
WolfSkunks for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.keenspace.com";
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
I know this will probably get modded down to where no one will see it, but I don't see why this guy doesn't deserve a patent. Yes, it's a split keyboard, but one of the split parts actually IS the mouse, a really bright (IMHO) idea that deserves to be rewarded. More importantly, this isn't a software patent, but an actual physical invention that has to be built and manufactured, and therefore, an exclusive right to distribute and/or license its design seems appropriate.
Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of patents these days are pretty bad, but this thing actually seems fairly inventive and worthy of the rights.
In 1992 - 1993 I was involved in an ergonomics experiment sponsored by the Bank of America New Technology Centre. The experiment gauged, among other things, how much time it took for people to reach for the mouse from their keyboard.
The results were very surprising: Right-handed people who train themselves to use the mouse with their left hand were 40% faster at completing tasks under Windows and OS/2. This had to do with the following:
For those of you too young to remember this, Presentation Manager was the user interface standard proposed by IBM and implemented by OS/2 and Windows 3.x. Many of its ugly recommendations are still enforced in Microsoft systems.
It was measured that many tasks were accomplished faster by navigating with the mouse (left hand) to a given screen area, then using the cursor, Enter, or control keys to perform an action, or use the numeric keys for data capture, etc.
I still use my mouse with the left hand. You may wish to try it! It only takes about a day or so to get used to the new position. No, I didn't change the buttons' configuration. Left button is still left button even though I use the mouse with the left hand. It's a lot easier to move the mouse to the left of the keyboard on a system that doesn't belong to you than to re-map the buttons ::wink::.
I will ask if they ever published this research; if they did, I'll post back a follow up comment with the link to it.
Cheers!
Ehttp://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Nope, no corelation between left thumb space bar and left mouse use (either that or I'm the exception that proves the rule).
I'm a lefty and use my left thumb to hit the space bar, but I use my mouse with my right hand.
Go lefties!
I guess nipple is a bit more socially gracefull maybe?
Heh - if they made those keyboards with the old-style springs rather than cheapo rubber domes, I'd order one. As it is, I have a retro IBM keyboard I use with my laptop when I'm at home. It's big, heavy, and makes VERY loud clicking while typing. In short, it's wonderful to type with it on my lap - if it had a built-in trackpoint (nipple) or even a micro-trackball on the right-hand side, it'd be perfect. A lot moreso than the keyboard/trackpad on my laptop, where my palms always seem to activate the trackpad at inopportune times while I'm typing...
How about putting the cpu/memory in the stand for the monitor, and putting the heavy drives into the left-hand piece, leaving the right-hand one light enough to easily mouse with?
That way, you can throw a (small) fan into the base to dissipate heat from the cpu/memory, keep the drives in the stable left-hand portion, and the right-hand portion becomes the mouse.
Of course, if you start moving all the heavier parts (drives, etc...) into the base, you end up with something similar to the slim desktop Vaios...
Well, here's another keyboard that has it wrong.
The '6' is on the wrong side. Don't keyboard makers know how to type?
You may be a dreamer, but I'm The Dreamer, the definite article you might say!
You're not going to get anywhere re-inventing the mouse and the keyboard, I don't care how much of a "better" design it is. People are comfortable with those two current devices and they're not going to make a switch to something weird looking. If you really want to innovate do something new that people can latch onto. The gesture based input from Black and White is a good example.
Okay, a guy from Oz has a US Patent on his invention. Good for him, good for the USPTO.
About the design, Ive often wondered if a Theremin effect could be used for a 3D spacial
controller. Maybe even 4D. Ideas?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Damn, and me without modpoints....
I have seen SGI workstations that have a bank of 6 dials/knobs for doing similar things. They are for XYZ Rotate and XYZ Translate. I imagine they are serial devices, so you can probably use them on just about anything as long as you have software support. Anyone know where to get them?
~GoRK
Remember the old Tektonix 4010 graphics terminals of the 70's who had just that for the graphics cursor: two thumbwheels on the right side of the keyboard?
But the best BM (before mouse) user-interface I've seen was on a Hewlett-Packard 9836 series desktop computer. It had a single thumbwheel on the left of the keyboard that sent the cursor in the direction of the last cursor key pressed.
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Most gamers play First Person Shooters (FPS) with the mouse and keyboard combo (joysticks, flight sticks, joypads, etc on certain games only.). :( (Start adding them up for Q3A:RA3 and you'll see that is not a lot -- Left, Right, Forward, Back (4 total), Fire, Jump, Alt. Fire (7 total for basics), Rocket Launcher, Railgun, Plasma gun, Machine gun, Lightning gun, "Enemy Here!" binds, etc). Imagine 5 buttons on the mouse and also the left side of the keyboard.... SWEET!
:). I like it... gotta build my own prototype and keep it under wraps.
My friend MUTATO plays Quake 3 Arena with a throttle and mouse though because of all the buttons and movement he can do with it. Now, this company in Austraila manufactures something called the Claw. I've used it before and it was pretty cool... really easy to program, but only has has 9 buttons
This keyboard and mouse could solve the problem if done correctly... He better have patiented it
-Tom
My favorite is the contraction of "Joystick" and "Nipple"...Leading to the...
JOYNIPPLE!
C-X C-S
Just what the world needs - a mouse you can never find when your computer really wants you to... :)
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
It's not 1981 anymore, the entire right half of the keyboard isn't that heavy... Imagine doing this with an old school IBM keyboard. I'll just save my money to get one of these IBM keyboards, though.
I recently purchased a Logiteceh Cordless Freedom Navigator - this is their iTouch Keyboard and a Wireless mouse with a dual-receiver. However, the combined receiver has two plugs - in the older models, these were PS/2 plugs. The newer model has two USB plugs, with those funky USB->PS/2 adaptors.
It really puzzles me why you'd put two USB plugs on the device. After all, the iTouch keyboard is already a "composite device" - the keyboard, the iTouch keys and the multimedia buttons. Would it really have been so hard to make the USB controller provide the composite keyboard/keys/button set up and mouse information through one USB plug?
With the corded options, you're better off - the mouse plugs into one of the two low-power USB ports on the keyboard, and keyboard plugs into the computer's USB port.
I ended up having to buy a 4-port hub so that I could have my keyboard/mouse plugged in at the same time as my Keyspan USB adaptor. The iMac only has 2 USB ports (same for most ATX motherboards).
Humans just need a third arm, maybe more. Or a prehensile tail. If you could operate your keyboard with 10 digits distributed evenly across two hands and control a mouse with a tail (or a new kind of pointer device which is manipulated in 3D by direct use of the tail), we'd be all set. Then we wouldn't need to worry about all these complications of human-computer interface design -- from the input side, anyway.
:)
If only more neuroscientists were working on *useful* projects like bionic prehensile tails...
-Chris
...More Powerful than Otto Preminger...
Had you actually read the article, you'd see he went you one better. The right kb rocks forward onto high-friction rubber feet when typing, then rocks back onto teflon feet when mousing. There's also a contact switch on the left side of the mouse that activates mouse mode. You won't get your pointer moving without your permission.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Look, the guy went to the trouble of showing you how his design works on his web site. You really ought to look it over before criticising. The kb is balanced on rubber feet. When you press the heel of your hand onto your mouse, it rocks towards you and glides on teflon feet just like the mouse you're using now. So, no, the kb isn't going to be skating around on you.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Then this would probably have given you an aneurism.
(It's amazing etch-a-sketch art, not Mr. Goatsex)
-B
Almost every good Quake player plays with the mouse. If you play with the keyboard only your going to be a very easy target!
>Sigh. Another neophyte gamer who thinks Quake
>is the end-all be-all of video games.
I've been playing computer games since the early 80's. I hardly think that makes me a neophyte.
>The mouse is good for SOME video games
Which was exactly my point. There are some (I would say quite a few) computer games that are difficult to use without a mouse.
do it right. This guy certainly put the legwork into researching his plan, and his comparisons of weight and center of gravity with the Microsoft Intellimouse are brilliant.
When I first saw the device, I thought, "Nah, it's going to be way too heavy and awkward." He's already got the research done to make sure it isn't, and he does a great job of disproving a lot of problems that users like me would consider. In fact, his product demo on that page is better than the documentation that comes with a lot of the products I've purchased.
Even if the mouse/kb combo concept doesn't take off, this guy deserves a great project management job somewhere. I'd love to write code for somebody who puts this kind of thought into their work.
What's your damage, Heather?
I yearn for the good old days when if you were talking about a keyboard and mouse, it meant Tom was trying to kill Jerry, who had hidden inside a piano. And Tom would play a damn good bit of Liszt trying to do it!
no no no....
its the g-spot.
you see, it's right next to the g key....
-- Segmentaion Fault (core dumped)
....PCKeyboard (the ex keyboard division of IBM and Lexmark) makes an interesting product. Of course, you can attach an external pointing device too.
A combination of a regular keyboard and a *foot mouse* would probably be more idea. Hands constantly stay on the keyboard, so there's no penalty for "context-switching" between mousing and typing. And you get a small multitasking bonus (typing while mouse moving).
If they were CHEAPER, I'd see a lot of people getting one.
YOU didn't think of it did you?
Actually, I did. And if I had written it up in a print article, it would be prior art. Instead, I just thought "Now that's a stupid idea," and went on with my life.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
I'm too lazy to find the URL right now, but the part of IBM's website you want is their Almaden Research Center. They also did a ThinkPad keyboard with dual pointing sticks, which looks like it would be fun to use, but never made it to a production device.
You can usually find the boxes on ebay for not-too-much money. If you have a Tru64 machine, you can get sort-of support for an SGI Dial and Button box on your machine.
I think this is the first design I've seen that adequately takes care of the mouse issue. I would first like to try it though.
Any more betatesters needed for this design??
nosig today
--
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
You normally use both thumbs for spaces. At the very least put it on the stationary side since is a very common key used.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Reaching for a mouse sucks, but the other half of that is playing a video game with anything besides a mouse is impossible.
... what, am I the only one who uses a trackball?
inigima
Are editors on Slashdot afraid that if they report something that someone might actually be able to buy that they'll look like they've been bought off? Sheesh, I remember not too long ago Taco would openly state that if anyone sent him free stuff he would review it.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I thought it would be neat to put a trackball into a mouse for 4 degrees of movement, but recently I saw an IBM mouse with the little stick on it and thought that would actually be better!
I only saw it in a picture though, and couldn't find it on IBM's web site. Anyone know anything else? It would be great for a first person shooter if you put an additional wheel and a few more buttons on it...
-Adam
---Looking for people to market my in-home, do it yourself root canal kit---
This sig 80% recycled bits, 20% post user.
I hope she doesn't live in California. one mild earthquake and all her work would be ruined!
I always wanted to take apart an old mouse, and mount two dials on the front end of the keyboard.
That way, you could have perfect orthogonal motion when doing CAD or drawing work. Doing diagonals will take some skill.
The inspiration? The Etch-A-Sketch. I dunno, call it the Etch-A-Mouse.
What we need, of course, is a direct computer connection to our brains.
Doesn't say much for his research that he couldn't even get the keyboard layout correct. The number 6 is on the *WRONG* side of the keyboard... ala microsoft natural keyboard...
"I can be self-referential if I want to," said Tom, swiftly.
Engelbart posited a chord-keyboard for use by one hand with a mouse ball underneath. I remember reading some results by Nat Rochester of IBM back in the 1970s in which he built a chord keyboard of exactly this sort (I got one and played with it in my lab ... it was very cool). The only
problem with the chord keyboard is that it
was no faster or easier to type with than a
regular old QWERTY box, so it died away.
Nonetheless, I'd be surprised if this invention is patentable in light of the original Engelbart invention which is substantially similar.
I love this idea. I don't know how practical it is until I have one 'in hand', so to speak but It would go a ong way to help something that's been driving me nuts for a while. It was pointed out in Dilbert as a joke, but its the absolute truth:
We have designed the modern PC for people with three hands.
This becomes most apparent when you're working in 3d apps, like Lightwave, 3d Studio, Truespace, or the like. You've got one hand working the controls, one hand on the mouse and you wish you could have a third hand on the number pad.
The other thing that drives me nuts on mice is the wheel. So my mouse maps X and Y axes to the standard motion of the mouse. Why can't I map the wheel to a Z axis? The best example of this is the Kensington TurboRing trackball. The 'wheel' is actually a ring set into the top of the trackball and indeed rotates about the Z-axis. Why don't 3d apps allow for this?
Ignore the craze ravings of a 3d geek.
--
404 Error:
I can't believe he moved the backspace key. I know that proper typing technique is to use your right thumb for the space bar, but since I had surgery on my right thumb while learning to type, it's been left thumb spacing for me. I could *never* use this keyboard layout. I'm sure that other people use the left thumb for the space as well. Grrrr...
I saw above a person who has a medical reason to use the left tumb for spacing and the mention of lefty mouse use - I understand and feel for both since I am a left thumb spacer and a left mouse user so my .02 would be that a left handed version just use the mouse idea on the left and keep the space bar with the mouse portion.
Is there a corelation between left thumb space bar use and left mouse use?
Additionally my GF converted to lefty mouse use since it frees your right hand for arrow keys and number pad use. However, the keyboard presented does not allow for simultaneious mousing and number pading since in mouse mode some of the numbers from the number pad turn into mouse buttons unless you become a hack at switching between mouse and non mouse modes just to get some numbers entered...
Wheeeee
Rats! I forgot to complain about how much I hate those extra cursor keys and not being able to find the CTRL, CAPS-LOCK, and ESC keys in the right place. Ah, nothing beats an old bulletproof, buckling-spring IBM AT keyboard.
Thanks for the links. I really liked that programmable keyboard. It reminds me of the days when Borland's SuperKey used to work.
I would give this guy a million dollars if he would put the function keys back on the left side of the keyboard where they belong. This would surely save the world countless seconds by allowing programmers to once again touch type these keys, just like in the "good ol' days."
No hurry. I still have enough IBM PC-AT keyboards to last me a hundred years.
You mean like minesweeper?
Playing a videogame is quite possible without a mouse, it's just that some are very hard without (or impossible like minesweeper, but someone could make a keyboard interface to that...). I think what you meant to say was that playing FPSs without a mouse is next to impossible. Oh and what about the console people among us? They use controllers, not mice.
</RANT>
--
Seeing is believing; You wouldn't have seen it if you didn't believe it.
Back when dinosaurs walked the earth, most Tektronix terminals operated this way. They were called "thumbwheels" and were at the left end of the keyboard. I think I had a color VT terminal that used the same setup as well.
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, 1977
About 10% of the population is left handed and would have a difficult time adapting to this thing. Even now after years of computer use I can't control a mouse pointer with my right hand with even a modicum of accuracy (I end up going up and left if I'm trying to go left, and down and right if I'm trying to go right.. drives me bonkers until I switch the mouse.)
Someone needs to perfect the eye tracking thing. A cross-hair cursor that tracks your eye and "mouse" buttons on the keyboad might actually work. Other than that the mouse is probably the best input device we're gonna get for windowing GUIs. (focus follows cursor style X11 desktops would probably suck for this though)
I agree with you that this is definitely an innovation that deserves some recognition. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "appropriate". Just because it's not software does not mean that a patent that ensures "exclusive right ot distribute" is good. I believe that open hardware is just as important -- the same sort of advances that are possible in a software world free of patents are also possible in a hardware world free of patents.
-
A waterproof/foodproof keyboard -- been done
- A keyboard that rolls up -- been done
On top of that it's cumbersome to use, you have to push the keys extra hard to make them work, making it anything but ergonomic.The only really innovative keyboard design I have seen has been the Plycon Flex Keyboard as reviewed in this VH Review.
You can't really be meaning that? Why the sinclair spectrum could also be used as a rubber. Comeon, if that isn't innovative, I'll eat my shorts!
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
I could be wrong, but who else thinks that pushing around the entire right half of a keyboard is inviting carpal tunnel syndrome?
And yeah, you will not be using this for Quake any time soon.
I just love our President - he's so not bright.
Moderators need an additional choice: "Karma Whore" for people who cut-and-paste articles as their comments!
The web site mentions that the future plans for the device call for the mouse section to be wireless. The strap minght actually be a good idea, but a pin if you have to scratch your nose quick. I could really see people gouging thier eyes out if it's strapped to thier hand when they go to pick thier nose.= \=\=\=\
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
This is a little off-topic. What is the deal with some of the new ergonomic keyboards that have changed the layout of the Insert, Page Up, Home, etc. buttons? The normal configuration is 2 down and 3 across. I got a new Micron and it came with the buttons 3 down and 2 across. I hesitate to mention it, but it is a Microsoft keyboard. Another fiendish plot or just poor engineering?
Nate
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
You obviously never played Zarch on the Acorn Archimedes. One of the best games I've ever played: great control system (really sorts out the men from the boys) and good gameplay.. easily spiced up with a cheat module!! There is a binary only version for linux in the making, but I haven't seen much change over the last year.
It was quite a feat though to control a spacecraft in three dimensions using the mouse, and not everyone could do it. But great when you could.
http://blog.grcm.net/
I don't want to seem to be a troll here. But I've had experiences with the small company that has a patent trying to get money out of a large company that is producing a knock off.
Here's how it goes down. You serve them with papers. You meet and say "You're stealing my idea." They respond "We've looked at your finacial standing, you don't have the means to defend your patent. Good day."
Patents protect large companies, and pad lawyers pockets, they do nothing to protect the small inventor.
To each his (ambiguous masculine third person pronoun includes both genders...and transgenders, I suppose) own.
BTW, I'm the kind that loves the point-stick (I'm not using the N-word in my posts!) to the extent that I only consider laptops with the point-stick as an option. Kinda narrows down the choices, but at least I can choose between IBM and Toshiba models. (I've owned the Workpad z50 and, currently, a Toshiba Satellite 2805).
--
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Seems like a bad idea to me. The mouse needs to be smooth enough to give fluid motion. But then when you try to type on it, it's going to slide all over the place. It almost needs little brakes triggered by the mode button, though that's gonna be tricky.
Plus you need a heck of a lot more mouse-pad real-estate, as the keyboard bit will be bumping into stuff.
Frankly i don't feel i lose much efficiency taking that quarter second to move my hand to the mouse...
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
http://www.asktog.com/readerMail/1999-12ReaderMail .html
.oO0Oo.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
The only pointing device I use is a trackball. Absolutley perfect for games, and helps reduce carpal tunel syndrome.
Takes about an hour to get used to, then you will never go back.
Not everyone deserves a 320i
The only decent video game I've ever played with a mouse was Arkanoid-- and then only because a mouse is basically an inverted trackball. For anything else I'd rather have a regular old keyboard or a joystick (and in some cases two joysticks)
For some reason, my Quake III Arena for Windows isn't responding well to my analog joystick. Even though I've calibrated it, the game still moves as if it were digital.
Will I retire or break 10K?
did anyone notice that the backspace key is in the position of the space bar on the left hand side of the keyboard? Probably not a problem for some folks, but those that use their left thumb to hit the space bar are going to be in for a nice surprise.
It's a crappy idea, just like alot of the ergonomic mouses and keyboards you can buy. Very few companies make these kind of product for left handed people and those how do charge very high prices.
As a left handed I can only see these products as a bad idea because they will completely destroy my wrist.
The best a left handed can hope to find is a symmetrical mouse.
That is totally unfair
I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame it on you.
The really amusing part is watching the counter at the top of the guy's site. When I first hit it, it was at 27. I reloaded about ten seconds later, and it was at 99.
It's like watching a Slashdotting in action...
--
Feminism is the wild notion that women are human beings.
now not only I'll bang my mouse when I'll be pissed getting fragged in quake, I'll bang the keyboard at the same time, double the frustration releive in one single shot, the one who claims that isn't worth a patent is a complete idiot
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
claims a patent on it (it's a split keyboard with a joystick. Let's not get full of ourselves ;)
:)
So, where is the joystick? I see some keyboard/mouse combo, but... No joystick... Joystick is somtheing that sticks out from somewhere...
BigWhale!
---------------
I never wanted to go anywhere. I'm happy here...
The Sig, the sig
Windows allows you to assign shortcut key sequences to anything on the Start Menu. So the Windows key itself is sorta irrelevant. (On my PS/2 keyboarded winbox, I have Ctrl+Alt+M setup to minimize all windows.)
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I see that right-handed bias is again rearing its ugly head. Perhaps another patent could be issued for a left handed version. But, I guess that would be obvious.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
More and more people are getting fysical injuries when sitting in front of a computer. Is that because they stretch for the mouse, and then back to the keyboard ? (ie _moves_)... no its all the static movement... yes!
Furthermore, what kind of mouse do you perfer to use ? What kind of keyboard ? I personly fancy those "broken" keyboards form MS and Logitech, since they relax both hands, neck and shoulders. The same goes for the mouse. I use a logitech mouseman wheel simply because it supports the hand and gives a very relaxing working position. Any ordinary plain simple mouse gives me the creeps in less then 10 minutes.
We need to move more, not less...
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
I especially like the position of the arrow keys. Everybody here probably uses emacs and uses the Ctrl-[letter] controls for movement, but the biggest thing I hate about the MS Natural keyboards is the position of the arrow keys. And at least one of those MS keyboards forces you to move and rotate your hand in order to use it correctly because the keys aren't positioned at the same angle as the rest of the keys.
How young do you have to be to think this way? The only decent video game I've ever played with a mouse was Arkanoid-- and then only because a mouse is basically an inverted trackball. For anything else I'd rather have a regular old keyboard or a joystick (and in some cases two joysticks). Maybe a steering wheel for racing games, but those play fine with joysticks too.
I do not have a signature
Think about it. Running, climbing, hunting, chopping, carrying, and all of the other activities which occupied our ancestor's days were a lot more strenuous than typing and mousing, and yet we are getting injured. It's due to holding the same position(s) day in and day out while performing small, repetitive movements. Now, I'm not saying that reaching for the mouse is definitely better, since it can put an awkward strain on the arm/shoulder, but there definitely is something to be said for INCREASING the amount of movement necessary for computing.
Some things to try for movement at the computer are sit-stand workstations, chairs that rock or at least adjust, or even one of those big exercise balls (to sit on.)
It is indeed an invention and a fairly cute one if you ask me.
Of course the problem is here that this is not what the patent covers. The basic idea is okay of course, but what makes his idea much better than this is the research and development that he has done on top of it. He has a working prototype.
The thing is though is that the patenting process does not reward this R&D at all. Its a completely orthogonal issue. Its possible to have a patent with little or not R&D, or even when someone else has done the R&D (take a look at the gene patents if you do not believe me!). Its also possible to patent something when you have no working prototype (or never could have as many patents have been passed on impossible technologies).
I agree with you that this guy deserves recognition for the work that he has done, which I think appears good. It may be that in this case the patent system will even enable him to get this recognition. This does not however change the essential point that the patent system is a square peg for a round hole. Phil
An innovative idea, not an algorithmic patent... as far as Im concerned this deserves a patent.
This is exactly why I like how windows has keyboard shortcuts for nearly everything. It was one of my gripes about macs, too.
Unfortunately, developers seem to be moving away from allowing shortcuts for everything, probably too busy designing their fancy custom contols that look nasty with anything but the default system colors.
The alternative for the guy would potentialy be membership of The Chindogu society, although his invention *might* be deemed too usefull. :-)
-- Vagnerr - (www.vagnerr.com) Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Sparc machines have the two on one cable from the keyboard. Mouse plugs into the keyboard.
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
YOU didn't think of it did you? How bout anyone else here. Go look at the page, look at his designs, look at the consideration he's put into this and come back and tell me its not an invention. It is. Not calling this an invention is like calling a light bulb "just a piece of wire headed by electricity...for peats sake haven't you seen lightning light up the sky".
Burn Hollywood Burn
So assuming this thing does take off, and is all the rage, how would you work it into a laptop? :)
Sam
Sam
--
"The Son of God became a man to enable man to become sons of God."
Sam
Why not have both left and right halves of the keyboard with mouse functions? Two pointers, two selects, etc. It would lead to much more interaction with the display. Select text with left pointer, select with right, click and drag between locations. I think it would be a great improvement. And think what it would do to gaming!
- Sig this!
I think it's true that it's hard to convert the mainstream user - I would still be typing on my old klik-klak IBM keyboard if it wasn't for my CTS.
However, from what I heard, it can be damn expensive, if one or more of your employees get wrist problems from typing - they can't continue work, and demand insurance or compensation. One of my friends worked for the the Danish railway system, doing some slave typing tasks, got CTS and ended up getting over three times as much in compensation as he got in wages, the three months he was there... and he's still getting money coming in every month (ok, that's Denmark).
I use a Datahand, and they claim that some companies have experienced increased productivity (up to 13% gain) on heavy duty typing tasks from using their keyboard. Ie. more productivity, less chance of employees getting wrist problems from investing in an alternative input device. If employers aren't insisting on their typers/coders using ergonomic input devices, it can cost them money AND the employees their health (and yes, CTS does suck).
-Kraft
-Kraft
Live and let live
don't take this the wrong way, but, why would you need your keyboard lit up? I mean, don't you look at the screen when you type? better yet, doesn't the monitor give off enough light that "you know where the keyboard is?" I mean, if you want the keyboard lit, I think you could get a little snake light or a desk lamp..I mean, if its "dark" and needs to be dark, the monitor is like keeping a tv set on...
.kb
Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
unlike you, i followed the link and read the site before posting. Yes, he has plans for a lefty version too.
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___
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
This could actually be interesting if it were wireless, and had straps so you could wear it. I guess people in chatrooms could only use the letters {q,w,e,r,t,a,s,d,f,g,z,x,c,v,b, and 1-6 (no space)) when looking at pr0n. "um, what are you doing?" "g6t`a1V3`br1t1V3`111Vx"
Where's the Windows key?
Using Windows without the Windows key is a massive hit to usage speed.
Dancin Santa
Open File Explorer: Windows+'E'
Minimize all windows: Windows+'M'
etc.
Using the mouse to do any of these takes many more movements than is necessary. Even typing the commands into cmd takes more time than the shortcuts.
Dancin Santa
Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's strange that out of the hundreds of Wintel mouse/keyboard combinations on the market, none of them combine the keyboard and mouse data into a single stream? Is it really that hard to embed mouse movement into the keyboard serial port?
I think it would be nice to have arrow buttons like the keyboard has so I could easily make straight movements. 9 buttons, 8 to send the mouse in 8 directions and one to restore to previous location. Plus a joystick/ball/whatever...sounds kind of big, but I would really like it.
Interesting, but nothing new really. Just like all other 'inovative' keyboards, this one will be useful for the carpal tunnel folk, but won't convert the mainstream user. The keyboard is about the least improved part of a computer ever, so I doubt anything will change until we get telepathy-enabled computers. In fact, the keyboard has been around since typewriters, so why would we ever change the design? The only really innovative keyboard design I have seen has been the Plycon Flex Keyboard as reviewed in this VH Review.
(it's a split keyboard with a joystick. Let's not get full of ourselves ;)
Granted, this is a split keyboard, but there is no joystick! This is innovative because of the way the mouse is mounted under the keyboard. The guy actually claims a petent on it because nothing like this has been done before.
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
Totally different concept here. We're not talking about nub mice, or key mice here, we're talking about keyboards which are mice. You move the whole right half of the keyboard to use the pointer, not a single key, or a nub
If god had intended you to be naked, you would have been born that way.
The idea looks promising (I've thought about something similar - TheBAT movable like a mouse).
But really, of all well-known deficiencies of standard keyboard it addresses only the problem of mouse-keyboard switch, and generates some new problems, the first of which is the problem of loss of bimanual motor memory. Let me discuss it in depth:
If your standard keyboard lies on your table, then you place one hand on "f" and know that your right hand will find "j" on it's place due to your motor memory. If you use the split keyboard, you adapt to more or less constant split. When the part of keyboard is movable then you should use some visual or tactile feedback.
I understand that the right hand lies on the mouse and has an anchor point so. But the proper keying requires your wrist to be ABOVE the keyboard. It's WRONG to type when your hand is supported (I do so, but it doesn't mean that I am correct; and when I type fast, I rise my hands)
Maybe the design should use the adaptive brakes that allow movement in mouse mode only.
About my own projects: I try to invent something that addresses the bigger part of known key/mouse problem and fully eliminates any hands movement except fingers. It will be joystick-like in form.
Please remove all SPAM to answer
In my book, for efficiency and compactness, the IBM Trackpoint is still the best way to go. It takes a while to become good at using it and feel comfortable with it (and many users give up before then), but once you are used to it, it's great. Note that the Trackpoint is different from the pointing sticks found on Toshiba machines and some other imitators; those are really awful.
Why not just build the right hand piece which includes the mouse, and use your left hand on your regular keyboard. That would make the device useful for laptop users too.
- Eric, InvisibleRobot.com
i regularly run my mouse off the edge of my desk because i forget to pick it up and move it to position it right. this thing looks like it might be difficult to do that.
(also, this guy's boss is going to be so mad when he sees what he's done to his keyboard!)
Let's not get full of ourselves ;)
:)
Of all the people to say that...
clicked on an
splash all over a chick's face!!
Yeah this is a good idea --- and all reasonably good ideas (pertaining to the slashdotting background) should get the chance to show theirs here.
.: www.GameVoiceClub.com :. - The Ultimate GameVoice Users Database
Like our keyboard being released soon....
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
See the article written at: Spice Up That Late Night Gaming
Back-Lit keyboards --- Game Voice Club Connection - Forums powered by WWWThreads
Ifeel Mouse with Illuminated Keyboard comments -- Game Voice Club Connection - Forums powered by WWWThreads
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
See our Illuminated Keyboard
Here's the deal... The reason for turning out the lights is reducing the GLARE. This is especially useful in Games that are particularly dark to begin with. You are reducing the glare so you can adequately see the fine dark details. So if the screen is dark and the room is dark... there is not much light coming from the screen to light your board.
Next. I do not know about you... even though I do touch typing all day during the day, when I come home I want to compute comfortably. So I use my keyboard in the keyboard tray that is at a good ergominic position.. (which by the way get no light from the monitor) and I relax in my chair --- which is not the position for touch typing. Lastly moving back and forth between mouse and keyboard... this allows you to orient yourself quickly.
And for nite-time programmers, and use in a dorm, you can type your papers or programs in minimal light which would not disturb your roommate.
Even better on an airplane you can work on your laptop quite well without overhead lighting... and not disturb your fellow passengers sitting next to you (at least not as much).... and did I mention reducing glare.. laptops screens are notorious ( although they are getting better) for being difficult to read.
Hope this helps
David
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
See our Illuminated Keyboard
And as a final note:
I think it looks COOL. Looking at the two picture links Picture 1 and Picture 2.... you can see that in the second one... no light is coming from the screen.
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
David Byrd
CEO - 21st Century Tech., Inc.
URL: http://www.nite-surfer.com
See our Illuminated Keyboard
For those of you who are looking for a keyboard perhaps a little different than what you're used to, give a Kinesis contoured keyboard a try (found at www.kinesis-ergo.com). They really are a step above normal keyboards, the keys are situated so that your fingers can hit almost all the keys without any wrist movement. The space/backspace/enter/delete keys are all controlled by your thumb and most of the rest are in pretty easy reach
Of course, it'll take 2 weeks of practice before you're typing at full speed again. And your friends and coworkers will complain every time they try to use your computer. But use one for a while and you'll realize just how antiquated standard keyboards are.
I can see PDA users needing this when desktop space is at a premium (On a 747/757/777/Airbus, for example). I use the Targus keyboard with my HP Journada for notetaking and lecturework; been able to get 8.5 hours out of it between charges.
That being said, I don't think this concept will fly well on the desktop except for the select view who can master typing without beating the hell out of their machines. I can see labels on the box: "Not for Cybersquirters or e-Epileptics"
The design idea is interesting, but I do not believe that it will be all that practical. At one point, not to long ago, some company came up with a mouse that had a numeric pad built into it or something very close to a numeric pad. I suppose that could be considered prior art, even though it was only a number pad and not half a keyboard.
Anyway, the company that came up with that innovation believed that soon everyone would be using their mouse/number pad thingies. How many of you bought them? I recall looking at it and thinking, "What an unwieldy looking piece of junk!"
As you can tell with that response, I chose to neglect the purchase of that dust covered combo mouse thingy. I would also have to neglect the purchase of this "new" design as well.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
That is an awesome idea. I could open up paint and it would be just like my ol' etch a sketch only it would have color! :)
D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
It's probably because the counter is going past 10,000 and restarting at 0. D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
The first thought that crossed my mind, is how much longer can we expect the keyboard to live?? I saw in one post that someone said that keyboard will never die - pretty short sighted statement. Voice recognition has come a long way, and who knows what tomorrow holds. I would like to think that the world will not be stagnate after I die, I actually enjoy the thought that people of the future might just possible look back and say things like - "they had to use their hands??"
Okay, so maybe this was a Jack Handy sort of idea, a little too deep. Stuff like this just sets my mind to wandering.
someone have probleby alredy said this... but if he built the keymouse thingy to increase user speed, why is it that he dosent use dvorak instead of qwerty... users will probleby have to adapt anyway... so why dont lett them adapt to dvorak and increase thier typing speed
The design was based around my self taught touch typing technique (obviously could have done better). I'll look at how I canput it back.
During typing it rests on rubber feet and doesn't move. Not an issue. Read the webpage.
The centre of gravity and weight is the same as a conventional mouse so this should not be an issue.
As I responded to someone else, I am a self taught touch typist and will look at how it can be put back.