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Iceman Murdered by Arrow in the Back
PenguinRadio writes: "The Washington Post has taken a break from the Chandra Levy case to report on a recently discovered murder of a 5,300 year old iceman. The iceman was discovered about ten years ago in the snow covered Alps near Italy, but it was unknown until today how he died. Scientists used a CT scan to discover an arrowhead embedded in his back. Being stabbed in the back is not a recent dot.com kind of thing." Somehow it's inspiring to see just how long we've been killing each other. This story is great in so many ways.
You're a sick fuck, Mike.
Ahhh, yes... The discovery of how this 5,300 year old corpse died is so very important.
Perhaps I can buy you a clue. The point is, under the NAGPRA the remains would have to be handed over and reburied before any serious examination could be done. It is important to understand what people were eating at that time, what they were wearing, what technologies they had, what diseases they suffered. It's a whole lot easier to know where you are when you know how you got here.
And, actually, it is important to discover how any person died, especially if it wasn't from natural causes. If it was from a disease, that would be important. If it was from violence, well that's pretty interesting too, don't you think? People claim violence today is caused by poverty, or overcrowding, or video games. But perhaps there are reasons that predate wealth, or population, or technology. No, we're not going to learn the answer to that question from this one corpse. But we're sure not going to answer it by reburying it without any study.
Yes, and it's doubly sad because it appears the populating of the Americas was far more complicated than was generally supposed. The old model of a recent migration across the Bering land bridge looks like it needs some revisions. The oldest human remains found in the Americas are in South America. None of the remains from >6000 years ago resemble any of the native American tribes, and in fact may be closer to polynesian. It's possible that there were multiple waves of immigration, starting well before the last ice age (the Monte Verde site in Chile might be 30,000 years old). People got to Australia by boat 40,000 years ago; it's possible that people got to America the same way. They could've sailed down the Pacific coast when the land bridge was still choked by ice. They could even have come west from Africa along the shores of Antarctica during an inter-glacial period when that coast was more hospitable than it is now. And that early wave disappeared, replaced by the later arrivals who were the ancestors of the current native Americans. Even some native traditions talk of "ghosts" who were in the land before them....
I happen to specialize in the European Bronze age. Though my main emphisis is much later. A hunting accident is not ridiculous at all. Imagin arrow knocked back, rugged terrain, and cold possibly icy conditions. A point in favour of this view would be the bones of the goat found nearby. The "iceman" could not have shot it with a dissabled arm. So a possible scenario would be the "attacker" leaving some food for the "iceman" and going to get help wich was prevented by a nasty storm. The bows of this period were short range affairs which required the hunter to get close to the game. Walking around with an arrow knocked back, would not be uncommon. This is not to imply that these weapons were primitive. They were not. In fact they were amazingly sophisticated, capable of tremendouse velocity. Also, even today, hunting accidents during archery sesson do happen, as I can personal attest. A buddy I was with, got shot in the ass by an over anxious bowman( term used loosely!) Fortunatly, the arrow had a target tip and had been slowed down by all the brush it went through. I highly recommond the study of the history of archery to anyone interested in technology. You will be astonished by the ingenuity of our ancestors.
Iceman's conversation with his hunting buddies:
Iceman: You two really are cowboys.
Hunting buddy: What's your problem, Kazanski?
Iceman: You're everyone's problem. That's because everytime you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous.
Hunting buddy: That's right! Ice... man. I am dangerous.
[Thunk! Arrow in the back.]
Alex Bischoff
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
--
Linux user since early January 1992.
Long time, no post... Welcome back Oog.
:wq
"Your modern world confuses and frightens me!..."
Welcome back OOG, its been too long without your posts.
did they find the killer?
No, but OJ is looking for him...
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Hah. Let's see Columbo solve this.
They've even brought in psychics!
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Italian Ice".
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Sadly, this kind of archaeology and anthropology in the United States is effectively dead -- whatever Native First Indigenous People American Indian tribe lived closest to the site of the discovery would lay claim to his remains and a wonderful find would be lost to science thanks to the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act . Fire up your Google buttons and look for the sad tale of Kennewick Man...
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Yeah, but it's so much more satisfying these days, when you can have the gore setting cranked all the way up and see your enemies exploding into blood vapor when you hit then with the BFG, and all from the comfort of your own home! None of that actually having to work at it like the old days.
--
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
No Comment.
Thag
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
probably because people have many, many years to get sick and tired of their family, whereas the burglar just wanders in and out of your life rather quickly...
"The things we wizards have to put up with."--Jethro Bodine
Oh, sure, Blame It On Cain .
Here is a discussion of Otzi.
l
Apparently there was a hoax based around the idea that arrows weren't the only thing coming from behind him.
(read the story, you'll get the joke)
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_229.htm
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Was I the only one to think that, based on the headline "Ice Man" referred to Val Kilmer, killed in some freakish fashion?
Urgh. Must grab my morning coffee.
Own up, OOG. Iceman took your cave-weed and cave-hookers, so you decided to deal with him in a rather permanent way. Didn't you?
The butler ALWAYS does it.
Never attribute to stupidity what can be construed as a monopoly preservation tactic.
I'm not quite dead. I think I'll pull through!
Never attribute to stupidity what can be construed as a monopoly preservation tactic.
I guess he shouldn't have used the white toilet paper.
Never attribute to stupidity what can be construed as a monopoly preservation tactic.
That statistic is BS.
Slashdot: Liberal News for Nerds. Liberal Stuff that Matters.
If the bear skins don't fit, you must acquit!
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
"Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!"
OK, probably not.
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Somehow it's inspiring to see just how long we've been killing each other.
Ever read/see 2001?
Better yet, ever read Genesis? Yeah, I think Cain pretty well illustrates the fact that murder was one of the first big crimes...
It's been going on a long time before mister Ice Guy.
± 29 dB
If you believe in the Christian or Jewish Bible and take it as truth, the first muder was well documented. A domestic crime, brother against brother, committed with a club. (see Genesis 4) The iceman is just one in a long line of people who were killed prematurely by other people, not the first and certainly not the last. And yes, it could have been an accident - people wearing animal skins tend to look like animals. This was before orange hunting vests y'know...
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
In other news, Italian officials have assigned Otzi's murder investigation to their cold-case file.
(Sorry, couldnt resist. Heheh)
Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, System 26 GUI Component Stockpile
Bowie J. Poag
isTheLinuxCommunityWhatItUsedToBe() returned FALSE.
Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, System 26 GUI Component Stockpile
Bowie J. Poag
I wonder what the Iceman's last words were...
Probably "Owwww!"
Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, System 26 GUI Component Stockpile
Bowie J. Poag
Vik :v)
http://www.iceman.it/
Bye :-)
Markus
--
PS: I'could be one of Ötzis descendants... he was found a few km from my home...
PPS: 90% of all replys to this article are rated "funny" - I hope at least mine will be moderated as "informative" ;-)
> You know you're a nerd when... ...you originally read "GROK" as a verb instead of a name.
LMAO.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
> that copper axe of his would make much more sense as a weapon
The world's first known hacker!
He was probably shot in the back for revealing that the neighboring village's cave paintings could easily be viewed without paying their fee.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
> This is probably exactly what the guy's entire problem was. He was standing there, under attack, and thinking "Gee, I wish I had something that was suitable for use as a weapon, but all I have is this copper axe."
IIRC, he was found with partially finished bow and arrows. Looks like "they" found him before he was ready for them.
Ah! Check this out.
Other pages disagree on whether or not he was a meat eater; some say that the (purported) fact that he wasn't a meat eater means that his bow and arrows were for fighting rather than for hunting.
Also of interest, his bow apparently qualifies as a "longbow". See the entries for "iceman bow" and "longbo" at this site.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
:-)
<sig>Guvf vf abg n frperg zrffntr
I don't want to knock the people who did it. They deserve the credit. Yet wouldn't a flint arrowhead kind of stick out when using modern imaging technology? And wouldn't sticking the body through a CT scanner ot MRI machine be the first thing done by virtually any serious researcher who got access to it?
There must be more to the story then then what's been reported. I just can't understand why it took 10 years to find this arrowhead.
I think the question on everybody's mind is if Chandra Levy was kidnapped and murdered via stone arrowhead to the back, will this frozen iceman provide any forensic clues as to identify the assailant?
Hopefully the Washington Post and other major news outlets will be quick to draw conclusions.
Cheers,
levine
online here
Never meant half of the things I said to you. So you know, there's a half that might be true - G. Phillips
A jealous husband? You're making a lot of cultural assumptions there. Traditional inuit families often had wives with two husbands, or husbands with two wives. I even recall hearing once that it was custom for a man to lend his wife to a visiting guest.
This man died 5000 years ago. People then were very primitive by our standards. It could be this man was killed because people thought he was posessed by an evil spirit. It could be that he was old and a drain on his community so he was chased out of his home.
Good science requires that you don't forget all your assupmtions and look at only the facts. Don't jump to conclusions based on what might make you shoot a guy in the back.
"Ow, I slipped and fell on my own arrow! Do I feel stupid! Well, at least nobody will know..."
If I remember correctly, Ötzi - who is very popular in the media here since he was discovered - was some kind of salesman who was crossing the alps to sell (or trade, whatever) flintstones.
Maybe there was a flintstone mafia back in those days that didn't like what he did, so they sent a hitman...
They say they have heard from a highly placed source that Gary Condit's worthless brother did it.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
Dude, I was nowhere near there at the time, I got witnesses.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Rabbi R. Mermelstein commented ... The Iceman was obviously a proto-Nazi intent on killing all perceived "lesser races" rather than some sort of noble hunter fatally injured in a "hunting accident"
Continued "misinformation" being spread by modern-day neo-nazi organizations has been picked up by normally straight-thinking, clear-headed organizations (e.g. NRA). As a consequence, this continued desire to disarm the "undesirables" (e.g. Jews, Homos, AMWAY believers, Republicans, etc) as prevalent today as it was during the Bronze Age continues.
The young woman shouted "911" prior to the brutal rape. Had she waited the six-weeks it would have taken for the Regional Law Enforcement Organization to respond, she would have been killed vice the Iceman.
It is sick that there are some out there who have necrophelic fantasies about some Ice WOMAN.
Only by exercising her human right to self-defense was this member of a "lesser race" able to survive her brutal rape, kill her assailant (i.e. the Iceman) rather than be killed, and struggle across the Alps to freedom.
I believe Juanita
--
This turns out to be a mutation of an April Fool's Day joke, as revealed in the font of knowledge.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
...who bravely, bravely, bravely, ran away...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I swear, Sesame Street needs to hire Oog poste haste!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
You should insert linebreaks (with :-)
) in your sig, to break it up the same way Theoden said it. Okay, that made no sense -- well, the same way Tolkien wrote it when he translated Theoden saying it.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Wow. They couldn't get anywhere near that detailed in the OJ Simpson case, but they can list point-for-point the assault on a dude frozen for 53 centuries. :-)
And ten years from now, new evidence will come to light. And some Italian-Austrian-Alps-area con man will claim to be Otzi's descendant, and sue for mistrial.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
You know, If he was really a warrior, that copper axe of his would make much more sense as a weapon than for something to chop wood as many currently think.
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satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Just because he has an arrow in his back doesn't mean it was a murder. Maybe he was hit accidentally.
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
Meanwhile, conspiracy experts are poring over the pictures, and videos of the JFK assassination for any clues to the whereabouts of the Iceman murder. Theorists claim that the "magic arrow" could have killed both the Iceman and JFK from evidence found in the Zapfruder movie (frames 112, 133, and 149). The Iceman is claimed by some to be a Cuban refugee who had contacted Oswald earlier that year.
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
and since the burglar gets a lot more exercise, he's a much smaller target than your average american couchpotato...
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Much of the world is free now... how do you think it got that way?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I have doubts as to whether semen can be identified as such after so much time, even when froze, so I did a little research. Sounds like it was just wild speculation. Here
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Why stop there when you can convert some of these to fully automatic? Then you can accidentally shoot somebody several times.
Actually I find that bludgeoning somebody to death is much more rewarding than shooting somebody from across the room. It makes me feel I've accomplished something.
set sarcasm=off
"I've got just one more question for ya, Grog. If you say you were just shooting in self defense, why was the victim shot in the back?"
Exactly! In addition, I need semi-automatic weapons to defend my home and my family!
(please note my sarcasm)
---
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Seriously. I love when OOG posts, he should do so more often.
---
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
He was probably murdered because he looked at the killer's girlfriend..
Yittrix
I'm sure he was accidentally shot, and then just left there to freeze for us to find him thousands of years later. "Whoops! Well, I'll get vindicated by somebody when the computer is invented," Og the killer caveman surely said.
If he were accidentally shot, don't you think the person who shot him would have carried him back to wherever? They did do burials back then. Even elephants bury their dead.
No, the only time you kill someone and leave 'em in a snowbank is because you're pretty sure the statute of limitations is longer than 5,000 years.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
...the cause of the death of the Human Torch is yet unknown.
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
Maybe I'm missing something here but how is it that in the course of 10 years since the body was discovered there were dozens of wild theories about the cause of death and nobody noticed he had a critical wound in his back? They could see the pores in his skin but not a hole from an arrow? AND they did a biopsy of his stomach contents before they took an X-Ray? Or was it only possible to see the flint arrow head in a CT Scan? There's even something that looks like an arrow shaft sticking out of his shoulder in the photo! (Though I suppose that could be something the scientists put there)
sorry, not a kid. a 25 year old geeky mother of a 4 month old.
if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans
I say he fell on it and killed himself, since in those days no one played FPS video games.
if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans
It it was an accident, why would he have died alone on a mountain?
Why wouldn't his friend who accidently shot him have helped him down the mountain?
The story said he was shot in the shoulder and took some time to die.
Why do you claim it was an accident? What are you trying to hide? Where were you on Thursday January 12, 5000 B.C.?
...they must have...somehow.
I'm still working on a clever footer.
Yeah right! Ban arrows! Sue the arrow companies! We can no longer allow evil arrowhead corporations to put dangerous artifacts in the hands of our children!
(please note my sarcasm)
----
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Let's see... he's 5300 years old, say a generation is 20 years, so 5 generations per hundred years, 5*53 = 265 generations of offspring lost by his death, say at 1.1 kids average per generation, his death prevented the birth of 1.1^265 = over 93 BILLION people!!! - enough to toally swamp the planet. So obviously he was killed by a terminator robot from the future to insure his offspring wouldn't lead to the destruction of the intelligent computers we will build in the next 50 years. This theory is further supported by the fact that he was found at/near/in Austria. Everybody knows those futuristic terminator robots speak with an Austrian accent. And another thing...a coverup is underway!!! The arrowhead was pure titanium!!! They're trying to cover that up by showing some flint fake on the news!!!!
...can be found here. There was also an article in a recent Discover issue about his last meal, June or July, but it doesn't seem to be on the magazine's website.
Arrows don't kill people, people kill people.
People don't kill people, videogames kill people!
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
What a coincidence! ;)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Micheal, how does this story give you inspiration on how we've killed eachother over the years? Could I suggest a cruel-murder-contest?
--
Bizar technology?
Archibald Feller and Associates
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
I sort of feel sorry for the officer assigned to this case.
It was obviously a conspiracy involving everyone who was alive at the time. The only solution is to sentence them all to death. Oh, wait...
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Nothing like a pre-historic hunting accident:
Officer: Why did you shoot your friend in the back with that arrow?
Og: He was wearing his deer skin. Before I realized it was him, the bow just went off.
Officer: Well, we could haul him down the mountain, but let's just leave him there. That way when he's found people can speculate wildly about what happened.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
In related news, FBI investigators said that they would be questioning scientists in a search for suspects, and motives for the murder.
Ouch!!!
bowhunters (at least in my state) do not wear hunter orange, only rifle/pistol/shotgun hunters are required to wear hunter orange during deer/small game season. During Turkey season, everyone gets to wear camo and you are stationary, so you really do look like a bush. They suggest you tie a orange ribbon to the tree above your position though.
Read my plan to save the Bengals
NO ONE was very tall. You giant six footers are historical aberrations. Most adult men ranged in size from five to five and half feet tall for the last hundred thousand years, I'd speculate.
Look at old suits of armor the next time you are in a museum.
Murder seems to be a fairly common way for ancient corpses to have met their ends. There are some interesting sites on the peat bog bodies, found in many areas of the UK and Ireland. Many of them have their skulls bashed in, their throats cut, and IIRC, one was even stabbed in the back.
A good starting place is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/overkill.shtm l
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Scientists also point to a series of cave paintings depicting violent acts as probably having desensitized the killer, allowing him to take another life. "As you can see, even primitive man faced the problem of violence in the media, and this poor chap paid the price."
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
"Although the cause of death has been established, the scientists are still arguing where the arrow was fired. Some say it was shot from a nearby cave full of primitive cave writing, some opponents claim it was fired from a closer grassy knoll. Some even go as far as saying there was more than one shooter, since the 'magic arrow' - as the scientists started to call it - traveled through Otzi in a manner which would be 'physically impossible and ballistically preposterous' for a single arrow, as expressed by one scientist, who prefers to remain anonymous"
"We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
"He was bending over at the time he was shot"
Maybe he was the first goatse.cx troll.
There's no statue of limitation on murder, is there?
I sort of feel sorry for the officer assigned to this case.
In other news: Conditt denies he had any affairs with the ancient iceman, willing to take another lie detector test.
As I recall, he wasn't wearing his bright orange jacket, just some brown fabrics and leather. He was probably mistaken for a deer or sheep by another hunter, and shot accidentally. This is yet another example of what happens when people don't prepare properly before going hunting. Bows don't kill people, people kill people.
Freedom: "I won't!"
According to this article by New Scientist, the arrow was discovered almost by accident. A CT scan performed in April by team specialist Paul Gostner showed no sign of foreign objects. Then three weeks ago, he took a chest X-ray that showed the outline of the arrow. A second examination of the CT scan confirmed the finding, as did the physical examination with pathologist Eduard Egarter which showed a two-centimetre cut in the skin matching the trajectory of the arrow. It turns out that because the arrow lies between the shoulder bone and the ribs, it would only show up on a scan of the side. And since all previous scans had been of only the front and back of the body, they hadn't found it until now.
Kind of makes you think how some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made almost entirely by accident (like how they discovered the electron, electric motors or radiation).
Self Bias Resistor
----------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.
"But using a technique called computerized tomography, a sophisticated X-ray that allows for multidimensional imaging, ..."
They used a freaking CAT scan, folks. Something you can get in just about every hospital nowadays.
Yeah, I bet that was a real tough one to come up with, wasn't it? "Gee, maybe if we look inside the body with these sophisticated tools we've had for decades, we might see something?"
If you were going to die like that, with all your stuff, it most probably had to be an accident you yourself caused alone. Either that, or your killer shot you and they didn't chase you, letting you die somewhere else.
Oetzi: Why, Togg, you bought a HUNTING bow, right? Specifically, a DEER hunting bow.
Togg: Yeah.
Oetzi: Well, how am I supposed to make sure you only use it for deer huinting? Why, if I wasn't watching you, you might go off and hunt boar, or bears, or, heck, just about anything! You could even use it as a WAR bow, and not a hunting bow at all!
Togg: But I paid you for it! I should be able to use it however I want!
Oetzi: No, Togg. You bought the RIGHT to USE the bow for deer hunting. The bow itself is still mine.
Togg: Well, what if I just use one of my own strings?
[Togg takes a bowstring from his pouch, and begins to string the bow]
Oetzi: NO!!! That's a circumvention device! You can be trampled by mammoths just for carrying that around! I'm calling the Elders!
[TWANG]
Togg: Well, that's the end of that...
(email addr is at acm, not mca)
We are Number One. All others are Number Two, or lower.
(email addr is at acm, not mca)
We are Number One. All others are Number Two, or lower.
--The Sphinx
"Apparently the deceased knew he was in danger and was perhaps fleeing to another village. Found on a cave wall in a cave the deceased was know to dwell was the following:
I am scared. Many come for me. I hope I can ahhhhhh."
---
This
For anyone interested in seeing the xray of the wound, you can see it at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20010725/wl/ital y_mystery_iceman_rom104.html.
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
The scientists speculate it was an ambush or a hunting accident. Nonsense. The guy was shot in the back as he ran away with a girl or from a fight over a woman. Nothing has changed in 5000 years.
NO dot-commer was stabbed in the back!
These kids, mostly inexperienced with no INDUSTRY TRACK RECORD volunteered to work at companies with no revenue and no business model. THEY WERE GREEDY AND GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED.
OOG ALWAYS WONDER WHAT HAPPEN TO COUSIN THARG SINCE HE DISAPPEAR IN MOUNTAIN!!! OOG THINK THARG FREEZE TO DEATH OR EATEN BY MAMOUTH BUT NOW ANGRY TO LEARN THARG MURDERED!!!
OOG THINK CAVEMAN GROK BEHIND MURDER (SINCE OJ SIMPSON NOT ALIVE AT THAT TIME AND USE KNIFE INSTEAD OF ARROW), BUT OOG PROBABLY HAVE TO HIRE UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER CIRROC TO BE ABLE TO BRING REAL KILLER TO JUSTICE!!! OOG AVENGE DEAD COUSIN THARG!!!
OOG THE OPEN SOURCE CAVEMAN!!! OOG BREAK HEAD WITH OPEN SOURCE CD!!!
Digital Stone-age Copyright Act
Got Code?
Somehow it's inspiring to see just how long we've been killing each other. This story is great in so many ways.
How is murder in any sense of the term great in so many ways?
Look, man was civilized enough to kill one another!
I think its sad in so many ways that we can't stop killing one another...
--
Fnord is that feeling you get when you reach for a Snickers and come back with a Slurpee.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I happen to be from that province where the Oetzi was found aka South Tyrol.
The museum where the iceman is exposed is located in Bolzano - Italy.
Here's the homepage:
www.iceman.it
or alternatively see here:
www.provinz.bz.it
cheers,
Benno.
www.linuxaudiodev.org The Home Of Linux Audio Development
I have examined all the evidence, and I can conclusively demonstrate the invalidity of the researchers' so-called "single arrow" theory. No one arrow could have caused such damage. There must have been another archer, perhaps firing from the grassy knoll.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
in 1993 Konrad Spindler came to the conclusion that this guy was wounded in battle and was trying to escape over the mountains when he died of his injuries. One theing the article fails to mention was that the 14 arrows were in the process of being made and his bow was in the process of being repaired. Now either he was a really bad shot (not likely if he surrvived to adulthood at that time) or he had been in a fight that required expending more arrows than a typical hunting trip. Anyway, the book is "The Man in the Ice".. highly recomended!
it was a hunting accident I swear!
Having shot the iceman, the archer then proclaimed: I own j00!
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Even as you read this, your pants are strangling your loins! Aaa!
did they find the killer?
A small and barely visible message was found on the arrowhead: Once you get to hell, tell'em I sent ya, you'll get a group discount.
The look on the scientists face? Priceless.
Heh, reminds me of that FarSide comic where paleontologists find, encased in ice,
a prehistoric man with a surprised look on his face sitting in his prehistoric out-house.
The caption was something like, "Proof that the Ice Age caught prehistoric man completely off guard."
Stupider like a fox! - H.S.
Ya, some things never change. Mankind has always stabbed the next guy in the back.
Mankind. always stabbing the next guy in the back.
I believe Lucy should have asked him to take his cape off before attempting to sew it with a silex needle.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
...Magneto knew just the tool to use, that bastard! Iceman, you will be avenged!
What I found interesting was that he seemed to be in the process of making arrows and a bow. He had 12 unfinished arrow shafts and 2 arrows ready to be shot. Also, he carried a bow that was still being worked and not yet strung.
That he was off on a hunting trip was the original hypothesis. But between the murder and the fact that he was still making his weaponry, I would suspect some other (social?) situation brought him into the mountains, and to his untimely demise.
I spent all of those years as Anonymous Coward and all I got was this lousy number (204976).
Must have been GREAT (x 10^10) Grandpapy Gates!
Now, the only reason for the big missing persons investigation, is that the media hopes that insignificant congressman did it, so they're hounding the hell out of the PD and creating a public relations nightmare for them, waiting and praying for them to arrest Mr. insignificant congressman. If they found her body in an alley and tracked down some bum that mugged her and shot her, or "worse" yet, she simply fled to a commune and changed her name or something, we probably wouldn't even hear about it because the media would drop it completely as soon as they found out Mr. insignificant congressman had nothing to do with it (which he probably doesn't).
... the Mob have been in business.
I am anarch of all I survey.
Didn't I see you in a cave painting episode of Clubs where you were driving a mastidon after eating many fermenting fruits?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Police are now looking a suspect in the Iceman case: "Thargg of the Mountains". He is considered armed and dangerous.
When asked about the 5000+ year age of the case, Inspector Podder replied "There is no statute of limitation on murder."
Anyone with any information on Thargg should call 1-555-222-TIPS.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Is it possible several Icemen went out on a hunt and this one got killed by an arrow gone astray ? Wouldn't that be as parisimonious as any of the scenarios presented (if it was a grudge/war, I think you might expect to see some sort of mutilation) ? Or does an accident just make less interesting copy ?
It may have been an accident but it's a much more interesting and assuring - it's good to see we aren't any worse people now than we were then - if it were murder. The belief that it was murder creates the potential for a sociological analysis (rabid theorization) but this will give one grad student a topic for his thesis, which I suppose is an inportant goal in and of itself
This practice is vary common, especially in the field of history. I'm going to stop short of aleging revisionist history, and simply say that it is common to evaluate the same event from entirely different perspectives and reach entirely different conclusions - sometimes simply for the purpose of being able to publish additional research papers - after all, there is a limited amount of history to interpret.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Of course what you've written is complete nonsense. There is no evidence of "murder".
Q: What goes, *stomp* *stomp* *stomp* *stomp* *sproi-oing* *stomp* *stomp* *stomp* *stomp*?
A: A prehistoric drive-by shooting.
(Yes, I know bows don't really go "sproi-oing", but it's a funnier sound effect than "fpppppt".)
This guy got a lucky break in the cosmic scheme of things. How many people care about specific individuals from 5000 years ago?
In the distance you hear an ominous moo.
just over the mountain somewhere?
They make it sound like A) He was screwing around in another tribes territory or B) He was in a full battle with another tribe. While carrying an ax and a bow with a number of arrows makes me think of a prehistoric Braveheart, being shot by an arrow from below and behind seems more like he was going after mountain goats and some guy let one loose discreetly.
After I have received the wisdom of good teaching, I will untiringly teach all people. - The Teachings of Buddha
We must find the party responsible for this and give them life.
When VPNs are outlawed, only outlaws have VPNs.
All those X-rays involved in a Computer Tomography might increase his risk of cancer.
The Ice Man. A new glimpse into humanity's ancient past. An inspiration for the future and a beacon of light in today's darkness of crime and violence.
Well, never mind. :P
"All your base are belong to this file I send in order to have your advice."
I dunno man... What the statute of limitations on a thing like this? Do you think they are still after the killer? Well, I've got a pretty good alliby anyway. I was with my girlfriend at the time... just ask her. Besides, this really smells like Microsoft may have something to do with it... what was Bill doing around 5,300 years ago?
We have a picture of the suspect. Please report to local police if you've seen him.
Caution: the suspect is armed.
In the Washington Post tomorrow: The DoJ has set the sentencing hearing for next week in the "Iceman" murder case. In other news, MS lawyers have started legal proceedings to have themselves cyrogenically frozen until a date can be set (tenatively in 5030) to resolve the anti0trust issues. -Random
Somehow it's inspiring to see just how long we've been killing each other.
Michael... Michael... Mwha.. hahaha...
Do you like German cars?
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so i says to mable, i says
What's up with that?
Wow! Proof positive that early Man's population had its share of evil corporate ladder climbers. This guy was probably just trying to get ahead by working some overtime and getting some name-to-face recognition by his bosses, when Og Suckup comes along and stabs him in the back, claiming to have made the limestone wheel deal himself.
- jonese (http://farmaccidentdigest.com)
It was Cain!
Cain did it!
--
Two witches watched two watches.
--
Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
Story to follow...
I just don't see how it relates to RIAA...
What it really proves is that Monty Python's material ain't as original as we'd believed. oh well...
I am the very model of a modern major general!
...he was murdered. Maybe it was in battle. Claric.
--
There's no problem that cannot be solved with a suitable amount of high explosives
"Being stabbed in the back is not a recent dot.com kind of thing"
The dot.com companies stabbed themselfs in the back.
that arrow didnt build itself ,the bow didn't either, yet the focus wasn't on WHO shot him, rather they focused on what he was shot with, sounds sadly like the polititions deciding by what guns ppl got shot with, as to what guns to ban, (polititions need our pity, not our support, fire yours the next time you vote)
karma, hah...
Konrad Spindler must have egg on his face now. The first thing you do with a mummy is to x-ray it.
Still in his book he does argue that the iceman had suffered from an "unknown disaster" because the iceman's quiver was clearly damaged before his death.
Philip
In his 1995 book, "The Man In the Ice", Konrad Spindler described in detail the iceman's equipment including his quiver, which he shows conclusively was badly damaged BEFORE it was frozen. In particular, its strap was torn off and the lid damaged.
The natural place to wear a quiver is slung over your back. If the iceman had fallen surely it is certainly possible that he fell on his back. Thq quiver would then be placed between his body and the ground, pushing one of the arrows through the quiver and into his scapula. This would also account for the damage to the quiver and I am surprised this possibility has not been mentioned.
The iceman also has serial rib fractures on one side - it is not possible to tell if this happened pre-mortem or not, but he does say that serial rib fractures are common in falls.
Of course the fact that the arrows would be point-down in the quiver means that the arrow would probably have pushed through the bottom of the quiver.
Of course it is not nearly as newsworthy...
Philip
Firing Line was cancelled last year owing to Buckley's advanced age and declining health after well over thirty years on-air. It will be sorely missed.
US Family Groups have claimed that the murder was incited by violence depicted in cave paintings and oral legends, and are thus lobbying for the ban of all cave paintings depicting hunting or other violence. A suit is also being prepared against the whittlers of the bow and arrow.
--This post is about truth, beauty, freedom, and above all things, Karma.
-- This post is about truth, beauty, freedom, and above all things, Karma
Oh my god! They killed Ötzi! You bastards!
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What? The iceman was murdered by an arrow in the back?!? Thanks for the spoiler warning!!!! ;-)
"They said the body was in such good condition that pores in the skin looked normal, and even the eyeballs were preserved behind lids frozen open. A sample taken from his intestine last year led scientists to conclude that his last meal included meat -- likely an alpine goat, whose bones were found nearby -- wheat, plants and plums."
;)
It's just amazing how preserved this man was from the freezing temperatures of the Alps. That iceman looked better than some of those egyptian mummies you see on the Discovery Channel.
Washington D.C. - Shortly after an interview with Italian authorities, congressman Gary Condit held a press conference in which he flatly denied any knowledge of the iceman, his whereabouts or who may have wacked him in the back with an arrow.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
Barney: Hey Fred!
Fred: What?!
Barney: Give me your Cocoa Pebbles!
Fred: No!
Barney: No? Ohhhhhh, Freeeeeed!
(barney gets hit by an arrow in the back)
Fred: Barney!
(a light appears behind Fred)
Barney: Yes, Fred?
Fred: You...you're an angel!
Barney: Your selfishness sent me to the great beyond.
(we see birds holding Barney on ropes and holding a flashlight over him)
Fred: Forgive me! Have my Cocoa Pebbles! Have them all!
Barney: Heavenly! Chocolatiest cereal in Bedrock!
(birds lick their lips and let go of the ropes)
Fred: Barney! You're no angel!
(Barney plummets into a glacier)
Barney: The devil made me do it!
thanks to
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And his last words were...
"Run away! Run away! Run away!"
(yes, that's Monty Python for all you jocks who don't get it.)
Those Bastards!
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
we need to enact bow control and full arrow registration.
Another sensless walk-by arrowing.
-You can cry, but you'll still die. There'll be no tears in the end.
... a combination of a boomerang and an arrow, wasn't such a hot idea.
Yeah, soon Slashdot will refer to Las Vegas as "a village close to California" ...
"Hey, what is that midget doing with that arrow, OW........."
I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
I thought a glacier snuck up on the iceman while he was sleeping.
The iceman is Ötzi, not Otzi like the article says.
hapo
The funny thing is that they ARE fair and balanced.
"PBS does this all the time"
... very predictable.
Not even close.
PBS programs are very interesting as long as they stay away from politics or social issues.
As soon as they get into politics their liberal leaning is very visible.
Scouts and gays ? Hell of course scouts were guilty as hell.
Kyoto ? Of course US is wrong.
Religion, of course it has no place in schools.
Etc etc
He was the earliest door to door salesman, carrying his sample pack. Interrupted someones dinner, and thwack, problem solved for several thousand years. Now, if arrows would work through a phone line...
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
What kind of institution let a moron, who would make a coment like this out? get a hobby pal, you r hmot is not very good...