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No GNOME For Solaris 9
Nailer writes: "Subject says it all really. A (very brief) Linuxgram article claims GNOME 2.0 won't be ready for Solaris 9 and the OS will ship with CDE and Motif as defaults. I'm just waiting for the inevitable announcement the GTK port of OpenOffice has been cancelled."
As if anyone would care. StarOffice exists for one reason only - to poach MS Office users. If you are on a pltform that does not support MS Office (or your platform is not named Solaris), don't expect too much support
What are the linux cockgobblers to do?
Love And Kisses,
BiffJerky the Troll
FP!
This is really a shame. I use solaris at work, and CDE is really bad. Also, there is a big hole recently discovered in CDE, and Sun has yet to release a patch. Gnome would have been so nice.
1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 -- Mathematics is the Language of Nature.
everyone knows gnome is dying...
i know it sounds cliche or trollish, but they are getting smoked by kde in a major way...
They need to come out with something really spectacular soon or forever be a distant second place to kde...
make that 3rd post...
:(
and dont you forget it
Love And Kisses,
BiffJerky the Troll
With the impending release of Qt 3 and soon KDE 3.0, GNOME
should just call it quits...
Trolling for Trolltech!
I don't use gnome or kde. bash is all I need.
As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.
If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.
Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.
If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.
Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:
Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!
or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.
Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!
I have to wonder if any OS that is primarily used as a server needs something like Gnome. The experience I have had with Solaris has been fine and I have never found myself looking for more eye candy. Maybe it would be nice for those who are using Solaris as a workstation though. So what do the Solaris users out there think? Is this something that anyone is actually going to miss? Or is this more of a situation where Sun would like to have a slick interface too?
Wanna get high?
They have to ship upgrades to keep the cash coming in. They can't ship Gnome 2.0 because it's not ready.
No story here.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Why does Sun continue to ignore KDE as a viable alternative to GNOME. KDE is very mature and incredibly stable. I don't see why Sun doesn't just go forward with packaging it with Solaris. Do they stick with GNOME because it's built on a 100% free toolkit? What's the driving force? As far as I can see, KDE is a solution to many of the problems Sun's UI trials of GNOME came up with. It just doesn't make sense... for one thing, if they want easy of use, KDE is much nicer than GNOME, IMHO.
Why bother.
GNU always wants to re-invent the wheel. Linux is fine, but they still want to work on HURD, because Linux isn't made by GNU. KDE is fine, but they still want to work on Gnome, because KDE isn't made by GNU.
I for one will be very disappointed if Sun does not ship some version of Gnome with Solaris 9.
:-)
As a big fan of Solaris I've been looking forward to this release, but come on, CDE is a donkey. It's one of the worst interfaces I've ever used.
Sorry, just had to blow off some steam. My hatred for CDE runs deep
.As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.
If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.
Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.
If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.
Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:
Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!
or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.
Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!
And the best part about it has to be Red Carpet. I don't like up2date because it requires registration with Red Hat's site. Does KDE have something similar? Or is there some other tool I can use to keep things patched if I switch away from GNOME? Hell, I've used apt on Debian systems, and something like that would be welcome!
As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.
.
If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.
Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.
If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.
Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:
Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!
or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.
Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!
Read Linux gram's article. It says in a feature incomplete pre-beta demo of Solaris 9 there is no GNOME 2.0. There is no GNOME 2.0 ( just an alpha version) for shipping versions of redhat, let alone for pre-beta versons of Solaris. This article is just placed here to pull traffic to LinuxGram and doesn't really add anything.
I own your faggot ass, man whore...
And don't you forget it
That this news is posted on the same day that this is announced, TrollTech releases QT 3.0 and that KDE 3.0 development is proceeding nicely. Just shows how some projects lose momentum and others do not. Very sad because I actually prefer the look and feel of Gnome to KDE.
--I don't mind the school of hard knocks, it's those darned refresher courses I hate. =)
But could it be that GNOME is not ready because: .NET?
Gnome's leader Miguel de Icaza is currently having a flirtation with Microsoft's C# technologies and is producing a Linux version of the stuff under an open source initiative called the Mono Project. ?
Or could this be a hint from Sun, to ignore MS C# (and MONO)or GNOME will wither an die a slow agonising death? After all, doesn't Sun now offer an alternative to Passport, and so
Just a thought.
Qt compiles without a hitch and so does KDE. And if you want the official word, Trolltech's web site indicates that Qt will compile fine on Solaris, or pretty much any box running some form of X11. The KDE project has also made accomodations to run properly on Sun's OS. Sun doesn't have to do any work other than compilation and making packages. What's so hard about that? At the very least, they could make it an option.
Why bother.
Trying not to be flamebait, but I think now is the time for GNOME hackers to gracefully start porting their programs to the KDE architecture. Is that really such a difficult move to make? Surely the whole Linux community would respect them all the more, because they will have consoldated the Linux desktop. There are GNOME fanatics, and they will try to mod this post down to -1 but perhaps this is not all that crazy a sentiment as it might once have been. Give it some thought, that's all I ask. Image where we could be if we stand united.
Now, GNOME does show potential, but as I said, it would very likely take several years of dedicated professional usability testing and performance tweaking to bring it up to enterprise quality. But the open-source community is diligent, and I look forward to hopefully giving GNOME another try in a couple years.
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
While a grad student, my university standardised on Solaris and RedHat Linux. so some students had CDE while others had the choice of KDE or GNOME. And some of us - me - spent 8+ hours my workstation.
So yes, gnome on solaris would be a good thing. CDE is a peace of crap thankfully Solaris also comes with Motif or OpenStep which s much more functional.
Woe be on to them, all who rise against poor people, shall perish in a the end. Buju Banton
So,it's not their now. But it will be. Come on, how often does a good open source project get started and not get finshed by SOMEBODY.
This is good. I think GNOME would only increase the number of weekly patches needed to keep a solaris system secure for more than 23 seconds.
The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
what a big fucking troll post and you retards keep feeding the troll
go away troll
I don't think my work would like me downloading the 700 MB worth of image files.
"Everything louder than everything else"
Having competition means that one side will always be trying to 1-up the other. That means that each side will have more rapid progress. It also means that end users will have a choice. Creating a monopoly in desktop environments is an antithesis of open source software. You stupid fuck.
...the Sun will fail.
KDE is a one trick pony. It is probably the best option for someone who loves C++ and probably grew up on VC++ on 'Doze.
GNOME has bindings for any language somebody liked enough to add support for. Got some C code you want to port to KDE? Delete it and start over, it would probably be faster. And what about the dozen or so 'lesser' languages? Even less likely.
And that is why GNOME will eventually win out. C++ is supported so any KDE app can potentially port but only a small subset of GNOME apps can migrate in the other direction.
Diversity usually beats a monoculture even though the monoculture often excels in a couple of areas.
Democrat delenda est
I know Nailer personally. He has no association with linuxgram.
Having competition means that one side will always be trying to 1-up the other. That means that each side will have more rapid progress. It also means that end users will have a choice. Creating a monopoly in desktop environments is an antithesis of open source software. You stupid fuck.
PS: Qt has a ton of bindings for other languages. Try seaching freshmeat sometime. You stupid fuck.
...the mantra is release early release often but it never truly reaches gold because its never finished.
The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade;
It's really not that hard.
Gnome is pretty and nice. i use it, i like it. i also have a sun box and run cde. Solaris runs servers. do we need all that prettyness and niceness eating cpu cycles on a webserver?
call me a troll, but isint this one of the bigest complaints about win2k, it has a bloated gui that eats resources better left for runing services on a server.
cde isnt pretty, but it does the job, and doesnt eat alot of resourses.
yes i know sun is offering a choice of desktops, but gnomes lack of inclusion really doesnt seem like a big loss to me..
you are so stupid... you're feeding the troll... can't you see he's obviously trolling?
I was really sorry to read this. Sun is a major force in terms of bringing unix to the masses, and I had looked forward to them using a UI that was something pleasurable instead of horrifying. It's a huge deal for all of us IMHO.
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
lethyos is a karma whore...a skanky, dirt, greasy karma whore
After Redhat's recent announcement that Gnome won't be shipping with Redhot 7.2 due to security concerns, the last thing Gnome needs is to be dumped by another major OS. With the damage done to Gnome's image by the recently discovered remote exploits and concerns about possible back doors, what Gnome needs is a ground up re-write and a full audit of the code base to restore confidence. On top of that, Gnome has a long ways to go to catch up with KDE in terms of functionality. All in all, I wish Miguel the best; but I won't be using Gnome until I can be sure it won't give some kiddie an easy r00t on my box.
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
If your anus is exposed to anthrax, you will get an anal infection. This will also prevent cmdrtaco penetration.
When are we going to see the arrival of the Penis Birds on this forum? See, you're right... this "story" is PURE trolling on the part of Linuxgram. Therefore, it should attract all of slashdot's best and most prestigious trolls who will post ASCII art of the Penis Bird and the Goatse.cx ass with "Taco" in the rectum.
Um, what? RH? Not shipping with GNOME? What crack are you on? Every review of 7.2 I've read so far mentions how nice and polished their GNOME interface is. If someone could mod this troll into oblivion before he spreads more FUD it would be appreciated.
IAAL,BIANLY
Very sloppy, Slashdot. You should know better. There's a reason why I don't go to a Linux news site for news on Solaris. The claim that Gnome 2.0 doesn't appear in the Solaris 9 downloadable beta, and then extending that claim to encompass the final version of Solaris 9 is completely ridiculous. Of course, they temper that claim with by saying that Sun labels the beta as "feature complete", which is true. However, I think I'd be hard-pressed to find a final copy of Gnome. The last I saw was a news snippet on Gnome.org, dated October 11, claiming that Gnome 2.0 was "coming up fast".
Finally, for those of you who have closely followed Sun's plans for Gnome, Sun has never once claimed that Gnome 2.0 would be a part of Solaris 9. Sun's Gnome site provides Gnome 1.4 as a "reference implementation", and says that Gnome will be the foundation of its future desktop. According to the site, "The next major release, GNOME 2.x, is expected in mid-2002".
--
Welcome to the land of the easily amused...
Gnome, like most Linux software is a bloated piece of spaghetti coded crap. It's good to hear that Gnome isn't going to contaminant Solaris. If no one believes me, try any version Gnome, and then try fvwm 1.24r. Oh god. Doesn't it feel soooo good?
The real problem with Solaris 9 is not that it
doesn't have the crappy GNOME but that it won't
have OpenWin, which many of us Sun lovers use
everyday. It used to be the only X server that
was halfway decent and not a bunch of crappy bloat
ware like CDE.
Slashdot did a story on this a while back. Click here to see what the Sun GNOME group had to say about KDE vs. Gnome. Essentially, as a highly-moderated post put it, it came down to the fact that GNOME was C-based, and the Sun GNOME team was more familiar with C than with C++.
FWIW, I have no idea where your information on Bonobo is from, but Evolution and a number of other current GNOME projects use Bonobo extensively. If Bonobo was as unready as you claimed Evo wouldn't run at all :) [Disclaimer: Ximian employee, not the views of my employer, yada, yada.]
IAAL,BIANLY
Wish we could see more proplerly reasoned posts like this. Informative, and a pleasure to read.
I tried to use gnome 1.4 .... what a memory hog and kinda sucky anyway. CDE was much more functional and stable.
Moderators must take action to ensure that nobody sees the valuable, substantiated, and useful information presented in this post. This story has been declared a pure trolling forum and intelligent posts like this will not be tolerated. Slashdot, as a whole, is a community of trolls, not intellects. Being a greed driven, censorship laden fiasco of foolishness, we can't have intelligent conversation taking place. Those who try to turn it otherwise must be punished by the subtraction of karma points. Remember moderators, you are solders in the Slashdot army to squash intelligent and alternative viewpoints! Do your duty! Mod AirLace down!
Title: Men in Love Author: Nancy Friday Publisher: Warner Books, 1996, New York, NY Date: 1996 ISBN/Location:0440052645 F MCMILLAN The following quotes taken from pp. 152-154. Similar obscene text fills this book. The argument alleging that we *rip* these quotes *out of context*, and the Miller objection that the work must be *taken as a whole* to be adjudged obscene are seen to be more hairsplitting frivols, and so much verbal surplusage, as one looks through the rest of the book. The point should be: whatever the merits of the rest of the book, why should the author compromise the integrity of the whole by intercalating raw sewage such as this throughout? Whatever merit there may in any attendant psychological or sociological apparatus, the obscene portions of text seen here render this title unfit for exposure to and consumption by minors. p. 152: My mother suggests we stop and watch. She tells me that of all animals only horses fuck in a similar way like people. She tells me that mating horses closely related makes them a better stock. the stallion that is about to mount the mare is her very own offspring. We are both fascinated by the huge size of the stallion's cock..My mother seems very excited and is rubbing her thighs together. I have no brothers or sisters. My father no longer cares about my mother and has left her.being a practical woman, my mother feels that it is all right for me to fuck her as long as nobody knows about it. I mount my mother from behind, as we observe the stallion fuck the mare. My cock throbs and expands in my mother's sweet receptive cunt. I dare not move in and out lest I come too soon. Fucking my mother was the most rewarding experience in my whole life. p. 153: I want to prove to myself that one does not have to be an imbecile to enjoy incest.What young healthy man did not have wet dreams about his mother?. I was about thirteen when I started fucking my mother regularly. To fuck my mother gave me self-confidence. p. 154: There are more fathers fucking their daughters than there are brothers fucking their sisters. Mother-fucking is considered rare and that makes me much happier. I am unique. I am daring. I have done something most young men wish they could do if they had the guts. How many young men know what their mother's cunt looks like? Are their mothers frigid or do they love to fuck? How does it feel to penetrate the womb you came out of with your cock? To revisit the place that nourished you for nine months?
If you check the Sun Freeware disk that comes with your Solaris 8 media kit, you'll find an option to install KDE. I haven't done it myself, but I hear it works pretty well. And if you don't have a media kit, go grab a copy at Sun Freeware, a Sun sanctioned site.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Of course RedHat was planning on shipping with Gnome -- UNTIL THE REMOTE EXPLOITS WERE DISCOVERED! Pay attention!
RedHat has corporate clients that would not take kindly to the lax, exploit-ridden security model Miguel has implemented in the most recent version of Gnome. And that's without even getting into the rumours about intentional, hidden backdoors.
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
This is fine trolling guys. Keep it up. Let's see how big we can make this thread.
i want some fucking penis birds damnit
I thought linux was immune to security issues -- only M$ has problems with security patches...
www.goatse.cx BIG ASSHOLE!
I'm afraid it's true. RedHat 7.2 is shipping with KDE2.2.1 as not only the default, but the only desktop environment. The details of the remote exploits are at http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/4352. This doesn't really represent a problem for die-hard GNOME fans as Ximian will continue to provide their Red-Carpet service to RedHat users.
I have always prefered Gnome to KDE from a lookability/usability standpoint....But alas -- it is hard for me to say this, but the develpment AND stabilization of KDE is the clear leader nowadays...Between KDE 2.X and Konq....I can't deny it any longer.....I remember back in "the day" when KDE was slow, bloated and browserless...And Gnome 1.0 was a shoo in with the mighty Netscape doing a Gtk+ version of their next browser -- to be known as Mozilla...But somewhere on the way to the fair.....And those damn KDE developers came on like a Kenyon in a long distance race -- making the world class competition look like chumps on a Krispy Kreme run....
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
I want to suggest that moderators not waste their points on posts in this forum. Due to the nature of the story to which people are making posts to, the forum has become saturated with trolls. LinuxGram has committed an act to which there are no intents other than generating ad revenue from hapless and stupid /. readers. After feeling so duped, most readers have proceeded to go wild with troll posts of all flavors on this forum. If you moderate down here, you will be wasting your points that could better be given to intelligent posts in other forums. Some people really should have their words raised above the cacophony. There will be none of that here. Flee this sinking Titanic. There's no use to finding intelligent life here.
- Disclaimer - This is a pissy rant by someone who at this point has a very hard time using the words "KDE" and "Gnome" without variants of "fuck" involved.
Gnome is not ready to go into Solaris. Or Red Hat. Or SuSE. In my experience Gnome was a dysfuntional, unstable pig of a desktop, full of garbage apps were a pain to use and rarely worked correctly. I eventually gave up and switched to KDE, which seems to have only two real advantages over Gnome, Konquerer, and a cute error window to let me know about all of the segmentation faults that the newest so called "stable" release of KDE seems to bring up repeatedly when I try to use Konquerer.
Crap like that might cut it in the world of free software geeks, but it has no place in the world of serious UNIX servers. Sun manages to sell their slow, overpriced hardware because people want stability - not flashy desktops that come with more half finished applications than any Windows install.
And yet the Open-Source world continues to rally around Gnome and KDE, proclaiming them to be saviors of the Linux desktop, when in truth those same programs are likely to help keep Linux off the desktop of people who want a computer that works - and not just a klude of annoying junk smushed together into a monstrosity that makes me realize why Apple's simple OS X/Aqua desktop has captured my computing soul in a way that nothing has since my father would lug his computer home from work and let me play Pac-Man on it.
Gnome and KDE, whatever. Just give me a stable enlightenment with a few nice themes, StarOffice 5.2 (Like a rock, baby!), and keep the silly mess that is Gnome/KDE in the gutter with the rest of the trash.
In private, a Sun rep (won't disclose his name but he is close with the VP of Development) told me about a month ago the problems with UI stability and the more "archaic" look and feel has caused them to reverse direction. I figured if I was able to get this info, Slashdot would have before me so I never mentioned it.
Yes, give it a good long rim job. That guys really needs it.
the post you are at this moment reading is a troll. i wrote it specifically for the purpose of wasting some moderator's precious points. thank you for properly spanking me
You have potential sir, for your troll is quite elegant. I hope to see more trolling from you in the future to help keep Slashdot intellect-free.
My top slashbox is Solaris Central. On Friday Solaris Central linked "No Gnome for Solaris 9" also. Under that is freshmeat and funnies. Alot of stuff has been making it was from the slashboxes to the Main slashdot page.
BTW, skip gnome/kde use icewm
i've been trolling for over an hour now... i've filled this forum with at least 50 troll posts. people keep feeding me! i have the nutrients i need to grow strong and more persistent! thanks for the meal! your post was yummy troll bait!
A man walks into a doctor's office with a bird on his penis. Doctor says "what's wrong?" Bird says "my feet are stuck to this guy's cock!"
/|
(o>
| )
8==x==D
Here at university we have 2 labs of Sun machines. One lab is used for by the Engineers for design and the other is used by the systems programming class. I had never used CDE before I walked into the CS lab. CDE does not have all the glitz that KDE or Gnome have but I find it to be pretty sharp. I wanted to download a copy of it for my Linux boxen to test it out on non-Sun hardware but it costs $50 to buy it. Oh, well KDE is good enough for me.
OT III Course, summary and comments
In OT 3,
OPERATING THETAN
Section Three
Hubbard explains his cosmology and the ins & outs of 'body thetans'. I will try to summarize it, because my lawyer, after having finally having seen evidence handed over to him on behalf of RTC, has advised me that including the full text is at this time against my interests. So be it. I therefore will give you this summary, interspersed with comments. Your comments are kindly invited. Please correct any errors and tell me about any information that I may have missed. Page numbers refer to the version of OT 3 as given in the Fishman Affidavit.
The following portion of OT 3 is quoted in full in Margery Wakefield's book The Road to Xenu, chapter 13, and I believe all of it has been quoted in other books and articles as well. It provides a nice context for my summary and comments:
Well, lots of things to dissect and discuss here, and perhaps even more things that need some elucidation before we can even begin to understand what Hubbard says in this rather strange and condensed tidbit.
But before we start, I believe it may be useful to first explain some more about Scientology's basic beliefs; otherwise it's difficult to make head or tails of the quote.
Jon Atack, who once was a member of Scientology and who has in fact completed OT 3 before he became a very effective critic of the cult, has provided us with a very useful analysis, OT 3 rewritten for beginners. Here's what Jon says:
Now that we know that, let's go through it again. Here's how the story start:
Hubbard believes in various universes, an idea that has been explored in sci-fi under the name of 'parallel universes'. Hubbard postulates that 95 million years ago, in our particular universe, a Galactic Federation was founded. There are, according to him, seventy-six planets that have gained membership to it. Sure bigger than the United Nations, and very space-opera indeed.
According to Hubbard, earth was once part of this Federation. It suffered from severe overpopulation; an average 178 billion people per planet is indeed rather crowded. The head of the Federation, whose name is later on to be revealed as 'Xenu', although some people think it's 'Xemu' (Hubbard's handwriting is spidery, and thus easy to misread) took draconian measures to reduce the number of inhabitants. Xenu transported the lot of them to earth, then referred to as 'Teegeeack'. After transportation, Xenu used hydrogen bombs on various volcanos and thereby wiped out all these people. Very effective indeed. He then proceeded to carry off their souls/spirits or 'thetans' and 'implanted' those. This episode - the transport, the bombing, the implanting - was labelled 'Incident II' by Hubbard.
In the other universes, other things happened. All thetans on this planet and on twenty-one nearby stars have Incident II and 'R6' in common. Hubbard refers to these twenty-two planets as 'the Confederation'.
It might be worth mentioning here that the Sea Org's insigna carries twenty-two stars. The number of stars is surely not chosen haphazardly: the insigna is obviously intended to be a symbol of this confederation that had to 'suffer' Incident II.
The other planets within the Galactic Federation - there were seventy-six of them, Hubbard says - supposedly have their own version of Incident II. And other universes - remember, Hubbard believed in parallel universes - would probably have other versions of Incident II as well. But what all universes have in common, according to Hubbard, is Incident I. He describes it in just a few lines and obviously didn't give the matter much thought, or perhaps he didn't dare 'to take the plunge' into this one. Hubbard doesn't say how much time this incident took, nor does he locate it. He's also noteably silent upon what happened in between Incident I and II, if I may say so.
As I've read some of the mailing lists every day for the past few weeks, there seems to be MAJOR activity by SUN on GNOME. Sander, Billh, Calum, and Stephen (sorry if I missed people!) are very active on the mailing lists. The Accessability Toolkit has been part of their work, but also in drafting some rather encouraging style guides and documentation, along with general hacking on various libraries and applications (including Nautilus, which was pronounced dead after Eazel went boom...). I seriously doubt they plan to drop GNOME, as I seriously doubt Solaris 9 will ship without it, considering the work they are putting into it. The DEVELOPMENT platform should be out by Christmas, with other applications ported soon afterwards.
And, for a better question, why would Sun want to pay TT for a licence for QT? Redhat? Why would any company want to pay for a widget set to develop (closed-source, mind you) for Linux? If a Symantec, IBM, Intuit, or, GASP, even M$ wanted to write Linux software, my guess is they would use an LGPL library (Gnome) over paying for QT licences. (I could be wrong, as I don't pay much attention to KDE, but their FAQ seem to say I'm not...)
Which brings me to the main point I'd like to make, IT'S BEEN ALL ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE PAST YEAR!!! It takes a lot of behind the scenes work for a program such as Evolution to work, so that's what the Gnomers have been hacking on. The problem is, YOU (the user) won't see it right away!
The technologies these guys have been busting their arses on will make the applications (like Evolution already proves) kick butt.
GConf - Consolidated configuration system with multiple backends. XML or BerkleyDB for user now, hopefully ACAP or LDAP for network users soon. Who know's what's next!
ATK - Accessability Toolkit for screenreaders and such, built-in to the platform. This is important for corporate use with the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) in US, and I'm sure others outside the US.
Bonobo - Corba based REAL components, not just OLE. Look at the power in Evolution. (I'm a big fan, as if you couldn't tell, but not just for myself, but for my wife and grandmother as well. I don't think mutt would cut it for them... :>)
Pango - i18n and l10n, Right-to-Left, and such... Don't know much about this being an en-us, but I'm sure it's important!
Glib/Gtk+ - Very nice improvements, Anti-Aliased text, and so forth.
Nautilus - Darin and others have been optimizing and working out the bugs in this for a while. It has it's problems on the bleeding edge, but it's comming along! I'm not sure about the extent of his involvment, but tigert has been showing up on the list. If he is working on it, we can expect quite a bit in the way of jaw-dropping eye-candy...
Glade/libglade/bonoboui(?) - XML UI descriptions at runtime. RAD UI development at it's best... This is very important.
GStreamer - While not Gnome platform, per se, it has ALOT of infrastructure in place in the A/V dept, and once ported to 2.0, will make for a nice multimedia API/Application Toolkit. (If memory serves correctly, it's been a while since I checked up on this one...)
And a plethora of other platform tidbits. Sure, YOU (user) won't see any radical differences between 1.4 and 2.0, other than AA text and such, but just wait until 2.0.1, 2.2, or 3.0, and so on. It took YEARS for the infrastrucure of Linux to become what it is. Now, it is proven solid. The infrastructure of Gnome is REALLY fleshing out. And need I remind you of the 1.0 - 1.2 hurdle... I imagine 2.0 will come out with eveyone trashing it, much like 1.0, then 2.2 come along with much the same reception 1.2 had... Sure, not good for PR, but... :>
NOT that this takes anything away from KDE. Infact, it's what I recommend to my non-developer friends. To my developer and/or sysadmin friends, I show the horsepower under Gnome's hood. So far I've had nothing but ooos and ahhhs from both camps. Later, I'm sure I'll be showing Gnome all-around.
And finally, CUT THAT "GNOME'S DYING" CRAP OUT! Not only does two projects not hurt, it HELPS! We need all the competition we can get, because that's what causes innovation! We've all seen M$ resting on their laurels, because they've had no competition! WE DON'T WANT THAT! And aside from some notable exceptions, the DEVELOPERS OF BOTH PROJECTS SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THIS!!! Take a look at this happy bday congratz to KDE on Gnome News and PLEASE, BE THANKFUL TO EVERYONE.
For my part, thanks Havoc, Owen, Michael, Seth, Darin, Sather, Ian, Jacob, Alex, Maciej, Calum, Bill, George, Chema, and all I've left out for your hard work. Don't let the ignorance of a few make you at all hesitant in your work. It is greatly appreciated!
Chris
Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts.
The victims were in airplanes or in their offices -- secretaries, businessmen and women, military and federal workers. Moms and dads. Friends and neighbors.
Thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, despicable acts of terror.
The pictures of airplanes flying into buildings, fires burning, huge structures collapsing, have filled us with disbelief, terrible sadness and a quiet, unyielding anger.
These acts of mass murder were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. But they have failed. Our country is strong. A great people has been moved to defend a great nation.
Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve.
Weird, I run KDE 2.2.x on my laptop and desktop and have never seen such problems. If you're not a troll, how about posting some specific steps I can take that will lead to my KDE 2.2.x install showing that cute error window you tout? I've never seen it. I'd love to see it. Help me out by telling me how to pop it up eight times a day, baby!
If it does not restrict how small I can resize the window, I'll be using it a lot more than I do now. I hate when my window must be as least at big as the lined-up buttons.
Programmers, remember: restricting your users is always a bad idea.
I'm hard to please, I have major issues with every desktop environment I've used. I don't love CDE, but it's fine with me. I certainly prefer it over the latest GNOME builds from Ximian and Sun.
I support change, so please bring on GNOME and/or KDE and attempt to make them better. But please keep CDE and Motif for those of us that don't want the 'latest and greatest'. Patch a few of CDE's major memory leaks and I'll be a happy, content user.
1. Bonobo has been out for a while now and used as the core of Evolution, Gide, Dev Help, Nautilus and many others... ever wonder why Open Office is intergrating with Bonobo?
2. nope, no such recomendation at that link. May I remind you that Galeon just won an award for the best linux browser?
3. Absolute unsubstantiated bullshit.
4. I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves:
KDE
GNOME
5. Hurd was started in 1990, before linux, further more, the GNOME people are not employed by Gnu and are associated only substantially by name.
G/K are here to stay, deal with it.
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
"In February 1998, Larry Wayne Harris, a white supremacist and born-again Christian, boasted to an informant that he had enough military-grade anthrax to wipe out all of Las Vegas. Eight bags marked "biological" had been found in the back of a car he and his accomplice were driving.17 Several days later, federal authorities learned that the anthrax Harris had brought to Las Vegas was a vaccine strain not harmful to human health. Nevertheless, the incident frightened many people and sparked a proliferation of anthrax hoaxes and threats in the second half of 1998 continuing into 1999 by groups including Identity Christians and other antigovernment groups, extortionists, antiabortion activists, and presumed prochoice groups." --CDC, 7/00.
Your post made it sound like choosing windowmaker means NOT choosing Gnome. That isn't so. They are not mutually exclusive options.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
So much bullshit and at the end it turns out we have a Mac fanatic here ...
Who gives a fuck what Apple groupies think.
This
Hence there is no particular reason why bundling GNOME or any other environment necessarily hogs resources.
That's so amusing. Considering this forum, moding someone as "troll" is like pointing at a single person in a crowd of people and saying "human". This forum is absolutely unbelievable! Who ever saw so many trolls??
Now that all the idiot european Green Party morons have been exposed for what they really are -- pacifist, appeasing, isolationists (courtesy of Osama Bin Laden) -- all they can do is come to slashdot and mentally masturbate over their last, best shot at a fourth reich -- that trolltech $1550 POS Qt and the dogshit layed on it, KDE.
To a professional Solaris consumer, they are both horrid pieces of shit. One, however, is truly free, for all projects, public and private. The other costs $1550 per developer. Seems like an inversion to me, or an intelligence test.
When it comes down to it, you sick shit-eating motherfuckers, you better hide deep in your bunkers, cuz when Gnome 2.0 comes out it's gonna be like you had a bunker bomb launched up your collective ass.
KDE and TrollTech are a pair of fucking EuroTrash theives, and these two bitches are gonna feel the wrath of PimpMaster Migual Icaza.
Here's to hoping that the inspiration isn't a flash in the pan. I've been musing lately about my recent experiences with quicken, as well as airlines.
in the grand tradition of one of my closest associates, nate oostendorp, i have elected to construct one of the easiest web pages on the planet. if you want neat, go to Rob's Page. or you can go to the main place i work on, the redoubtable slashdot.org (which we've sold to Andover.net, a great bunch of people). Of course, since I wrote that, we've merged with VA Linux Systems. Like before, it's a good bunch of people - which goes to show that people make work interesting. what else do i do? i work for blockstackers, a small firm that is basically an umbrella to all the things in life that we like to do. I also play computer games - most recently Baldur's Gate II, although some Diablo II, and SimCity 3000 Unlimited. I run Linux. I listen to a huge assortment of music as well, but particularly enjoy ambient music. I'm also very interested in nanotechnology. i like to read (and you can see what I'm reading right now) and not just on the computer screen. if you want to read, you should read things like Neil Gaiman, Terry Prachett, Robert Heinlein, Frank Herbert, William S. Burroughs, Kerouac, James Joyce, Shakespeare, Stephen Ambrose and Douglas Coupland. They've all got things to say, and say them well, and you should listen to them. But you should also listen to what you have to say. You should write that down, and keep that somewhere, because in seven hours, you aren't going to be able to recall this moment. That's one of the biggest lessons in life. why should you listen to me? well, no particular reason-other then i think i've learned a bunch of neat stuff about computers, but more to the point, how computers and people work together. because it doesn't matter how good computers can be-we have to use it. and we need to, because technology is only going to get cooler. i am eagerly awaiting the day for nanotech. my significant other thinks differently. but that's ok-because people need to think different things. besides, she brought her daught er into the world, who is the apple of my eye. on other occasions, i've taken the time to write things down. due to bad luck, as epitomized by a big house fire, i've lost much of my writing, but what i have...well.
and for those of you who wonder where the name hemos came from, perhaps an answer can be found. write this moment down
KDE would be nicer, but Sun bulks at the QT Developer's License. Solaris focus changed from a workstation to a server OS a few version back since that is what most people use it for, so need for a GUI is minimal. I wish they would ship WindowMaker instead. It runs fine on Solaris and is lightweight enough for a server.
As it stands, when you tell me to wait for GNOME 3.0, by that time KDE will be at 4.x or even 5.0 the rate they are both going, and will certainly have much more going for it then GNOMe will - KDE's rate of improvement is simply more accelerated than GNOME's. Added to which, the GNOME desktop will continue to have a fractured integration for some time to come - Nautilus and Evolution are going to be buggy for a very long time, Mozilla will continue to stand mostly on its own, and StarOffice will continue to also be an island unto itself.
It makes me sad that slashdotters are so quick (and eager!) to jump on GNOME. There is *a lot* going on in the GNOME world that is exciting. The above post mentions many of them. GNOME's infrastructure has been undergoing a major overhaul and that takes time. Remember how long it took for KDE to rewrite itself for 2.0? A long time. More people should be like the above poster and encourage other free software developers, not gather like buzzards around (what they hope is) a dying project.
~~~~~~~~~
dissertus scribendo latine videri volo.
So GNOME doesn't work for you, and KDE falls over all the time too. Interesting that, especially as the majority of people don't seem to have your problems.
Perhaps your problems are machine specific
Sun has got a feature-incomplete beta of Solaris 9 available for download through the company's early access program, but it seems the promised open-source Gnome 2.0 won't be the thing's default because, as we've pointed out before, the Gnome widgetry won't be ready when Solaris 9 ships for real in the first half of next year. Sun will cleave to its traditional Solaris Common Desktop Environment for the time being.
Gnome's leader Miguel de Icaza is currently having a flirtation with Microsoft's C# technologies and is producing a Linux version of the stuff under an open source initiative called the Mono Project.
Solaris 9, at least in its Intel incarnation, is supposed to be able to run Linux apps. Sun has been putting Linux APIs in the OS so Linux apps can be ported to Sparc.
How does a browser fit in on this?
Shall we scrap ever OS since MOST developers angle towards windows user running IE? should we also scrap the w3c since the only group that matters is IE team at MS? Not on your life... your just introducing your bias in browser for picking a windowing tool.
Hey lets face it Corn Flakes are dead frosted flakes have have a nice tasting frost.
Sun's official 'unsupported Solaris Gnome 1.4' package is old, unoptimized and is very slow and buggy. It's a hideous example of what Gnome can be.
OTOH, I run Ximian Gnome on my Solaris Ultra 5 (Solaris 8) workstation (slow processor, lots of RAM). Ximian Gnome is great! For most applications, Ximian Gnome is *faster* then CDE, and it's suite of utilities is much more useful then the kruft that comes with the generic Solaris workstation install. I work in a Solaris/Windows office, and often need apps like Gnumeric/Abiword or Star Office.
Gnome on my office-workstation is not as fast as on my cheap home computer (Celeron 366, 128 Mb ram, RH 7.1), but it is perfectly usable.
Most of the slowness seems to stem from the OpenWin server + Video Card itself (slow drawing of boxes, lines, etc). Certain apps like XMMS and Mozilla are slow (but those aren't Gnome apps). Nautilus is crappy slow on Solaris, so i turned it off and use GMC.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
SunOS 5.5, 5.6, and 5.7 (Solaris 2.5, 2.6 and 7) were Sun's transition to a 64-bit OS. 5.5 added support for the UltraSPARC processor, 5.5.1 added 64-bit register support, 5.6 64-bit files and filesystems, and 5.7 an optimized 64-bit kernel. (Of course, SGI IRIX users will gloat about SGI having done this years earlier with IRIX 6.0, but the point is moot).
SunOS 5.8 (Solaris 8) brought us... nothing too special. And 5.9 (Solaris 9)? Even less.
I don't really understand why Sun didn't just make a "Solaris 7.1, Solaris 7.5, and Solaris 7.6" before going to 8. Maybe it's because I've never been much of a numbers game fan.
If there's a sliver lining in all this, perhaps it's that SunOS 5.8 was the last to support the Sun4m architecture (SPARCstation 10 and SPARCstation 20), no more upgrading for those old machines of mine. Not that I would need to anyway, they're happily running 5.7.
I run an old Ximian gnome (1.2) on a redhat 6.2 box. It has never crashed. ever. And this is with 6 desktops, many, many xterms, XMMS with visualization, Netscape and Opera. I even occasionaly play heroes 3 or task to a vitual console and bring up a second X.
Gnome with redhat 7.1 on my laptop, has also never crashed. (The video driver has, but this is not Gnome's fault, but rather the X4 S3 driver.)
They misunderestimated me. -- George W. Bush
Sun wants to differentiate Solaris from Linux. Using KDE or GNOME would be an admission that Solaris is just another UNIX variant. That would be bad for Sun hardware sales. CDE may be crap, but at least it's different than Linux and FreeBSD desktops.
I was going to mod this down when I read the bashing. Then, I was going to mod it up when you said the magic word, "simple". Then I decided to just reply. There's more going on here than GNOME and KDE. Check out GNUstep.
goatse
check out the konq-bugs archive. you'll find lots of sites that cause konq to segfault. which sucks, of course, but konq is still more useful than either netscape or mozilla (i won't even mention that mdi atrocity)
Please try to keep posts on topic.
Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
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Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal
is a half-elf. If he ever tells you he isn't, trust me - he's lying.
You're the dumbest Apple groupie I've ever seen.
I haven't even opened the Solaris 8 box on my desk.
are belong to us
and it is super cool.
http://paul.makeout.org/cgi-bin/pboard.cgi
a beowulf cluster of these....
Sun would have to get a transferable binary license for Qt on Solaris, but even then, they'd be the only UNIX vendor standardizing on Qt. Or, Sun would have to buy TrollTech outright, likely to be an expensive proposition.
Sticking with Motif makes sense: it's very widely used commercially (far more than Qt), there are lots of widgets and tools for it, it is a de-facto standard, and Sun already has rights to it. There are also several C++-based APIs for Motif. (Technically, I think Qt and Motif is a toss-up, but that's another matter.)
Dear Dr. Tracy,
I am married for 20 years and have 2 children. When I was dating my husband, we used to hang out with his cousin alot (male). We got along great.
Deep inside I had feelings for my husbands cousin but never let on. As years have gone by we see each other maybe every two years at a family gathering.
He got married about 3 years ago to a woman a liitle older then him who talks like a truck driver. Not his type at all.
I saw him last week at a family reunion. He comes over and gives me a hug a twirls me around like I was the love of his life and he introduces me to his wife saying this is the love of my life.
I was taken back. They left the party pretty fast, I didn't even get a chance to talk to him. I thought of him all week. On Thursday, I called him at work (he is a funeral director) I wanted to feel him out. I said hi, this is Maria, I asked him if he could talk? he said yes. I then proceeded to say I didn't even get to tallk to you at the party. He said it was nice seeing everyone. He then asked me for my work number and said he had to go.
I know it has been only a few days, But, I am making myself crazy over this man. He is all I have been thinking about. Everytime the phone rings at work my heart stops. I feel like a teenager all over again.
Can I give him another call? Should I just sit tight and see if he calls me? Should I just forget him and try to get over him?
"People should be allowed to keep midgets as pets."
- Gov. Jesse Ventura
Unfortunately, Sun's OS group seems blissfully disconnected from their Java side; in fact, their OS group seems stuck in the C-mindset of the traditional BSD/UNIX world. And Sun's Java group seems more focussed on Windows than on adding value to Sun's own product line. Sun's lack of coordination and their lack of in-house and open source application development in Java gives people the impression that Java isn't ready. That may have been true two years ago, but today, Java is more than up to the task of building a zippy desktop with a footprint smaller than either Gnome or KDE.
Of course, Sun can't give up completely on C/C++ toolkits, but they have that pretty well covered with Motif and its C++ wrappers, tools that are still much more widely used among Sun's customers than either Gtk+ or Qt.
Sun always seemed like Sun's worst enemy. They need a little of that Gates/Ballmer top-down coherent management and energy. McNealy barks a lot, but he doesn't seem to bite much.
Here's a detailed breakdown of the exploits at Sourceforge.
Here's yahoo's coverage on the subject.
Any Questions?
Sun made the decision to use Gnome during the happy times of "dot com". Those exuberant days are over. I find it rather amusing the the classic wars are so easily restarted. Neither Gnome *NOR* KDE, IMHO, are ready for Solaris and other environments. KDE and Gnome both feel too disjointed to really make the Unix desktop feel like a computer that non-technically minded people would use.
;-), but I feel that there are design decisions that make the environment difficult to use - enough that I was screaming for my Gnome desktop back.
I happen to use Gnome, and have grown quite accustomed to it, but I still keep many terminals around to get things done. When I used CDE on Solaris in the past, I did the same thing, probably to a greater degree.
I tried to use KDE 2.2.x this past week, and I couldn't get accustomed to it. Perhaps I'm not European enough
Either way, though, the Unix desktop doesn't have a prayer. Sun was just commerical support that could substantiated Gnome as a major desktop force.
Ultimately, the Unix desktop feels too disjoint - which doesn't matter to people like me to want to poke around with the system, but matters to anyone new to Unix. The one advantage the Windows desktop has is how tightly integrated the GUI feels to the OS itself. You need to at least create that illusion in the Unix world - and so far it still seems like something that we aren't even close to acheiving.
On a final note, a consistent widget set across applications gives users a much more cohesive-feeling experience. It may seem silly to a lot of us, but the fact that Windows/Mac apps all "look the same" makes things feel "normal" for a lot of users.
If you want stability, use stable releases. If you want cutting edge features, fix things that don't work for you and contribute fixes back to the developers instead of bashing the project on SlashDot.
and I tried GNOME 1.4 when it came out, and blam. Nautilus crashes. So I switched back to KDE, which is *much* more stable (and less bloated).
actually, there are plenty of american developers of KDE now. people like kurt g, charles s, niel s.. unlike GNOME, power is not split into company camps (rh, ximian, sun), and is very decentralized :-)
and all of sun's gnome hackers are from europe (ireland)
From what I've seen the machines are just too slow to run anything heavier than CDE. We have Ultra 5/10s here with decent amounts of RAM and even CDE seems slow to me compared with Windows/Linux machines (try turning on the "display window contents while dragging" option and watch them repaint the screen in real time!).
:-)
The 400mhz processors in the Ultra10s are no racehorses by any stretch of the imagination - I ran benchmarks with them (using the distributed.net client) and they turn in scores less than 1/5 of my Athlon 1.4. Coupled with this, the video is abysmal (do they have ANY graphics acceleration?) but then "vi" doesn't need that much CPU power
Much as I like using Ximian/Gnome (without Nautilus) on my x86 linux boxen, I think it'd run like a dog on a typical Sun workstation...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
When we here at the Front de Liberation des Naifs de Jardin heard that GNOME was no longer included in Sun machines, it really made our day.
We have long espoused freedom for gnomes, especially those which live in gardens, and feel that any act of liberation for them is a good thing.
While we are aware that GNOME is quite different, and not a GUI in the same way that a Gnome is not a Dwarf, the happy news that someone supports liberation for GNOME is quite marvelous.
Vive les nains de jardin libre! Et les genies des ordinateurs aussi!
Will in Seattle
Went to the Crownjuwels conference last week in Amsterdam, and a Sun representative told us the same thing. Because 2.0 isn't going to be ready in time for testing and such it won't be in the first release of Solaris 9. But I won't be surprised if they did included 1.4 as an extra, with CDE still default and when 2.0 is stable they will release that in te later releases of Solaris 9.....
"Sun made the decision to use Gnome during the happy times of "dot com". Those exuberant days are over."
Actually, no, life in the ".com" world does go on for some, it's just that the hype has disappeared, and we know that there's nothing special in a mere version mismatch like this "news" story.
Gnome is an open-source project, it is not a product that must be released on a schedule to fit in with Sun's arbitrary release dates. The real world's version numbers just go up and up and up, there's nothing special about them.
~Tim
--
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
I've never seen such a huge amount of trolls getting modded up with insightful before. Is this just because the average Slashdot-user is a KDE-fan, or do you seriously think these deserve insightful:
1. Gnome 2.0 is not ready for much of anything.(Rant) (Score:4, Insightful): (..)"In my experience Gnome was a dysfuntional, unstable pig of a desktop, full of garbage apps were a pain to use and rarely worked correctly"(..)
Constructive criticism is always good, this is just trashing, which I cannot understand, having tried out CDE.
2. 5 substantial reasons why GNOME is obsolete (Score:3, Insightful) (..)"GNOME is based on the GTK+ library, which was fine for its day, but is now decidedly outdated. (..)It doesn't offer exciting components like KParts, KDE's analog to COM. The closes thing to that will be Bonobo, but its development is far behind even GNOME 2's release schedule and won't make it in until at least 2003."(..)
First. GTK+ still works fine, besides there might be a reason why GNOME 2.0 will be using GTK+ 2.0 instead of GTK+ 1.2. Second. Qt doesn't offer KParts, KDE does. GTK+ does not offer Bonobo, Gnome does. Besides Bonobo is already out in stable versions, and has been used extensively by Nautilus, Evolution and Gnumeric.
3. Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (Score:4, Insightful): "Why does Sun continue to ignore KDE as a viable alternative to GNOME. KDE is very mature and incredibly stable. I don't see why Sun doesn't just go forward with packaging it with Solaris. Do they stick with GNOME because it's built on a 100% free toolkit? What's the driving force? As far as I can see, KDE is a solution to many of the problems Sun's UI trials of GNOME came up with. It just doesn't make sense... for one thing, if they want easy of use, KDE is much nicer than GNOME, IMHO."
This is not so much of a troll, as uninformed, and I don't object much to the posting, I object to it being modded up to heaven just because the crowd loves KDE.
I realize being objective is hard when you have a situation like this, but please don't just mod up people because you agree. Mod people because they argue well and have thoughtful and well written comments.
So now we are forced to use ugly, bloated CDE, unless ugly, bloated Gnome get ready in time?
Well, there is always my Debian box with olwm.
I'm just waiting for the inevitable announcement the GTK port of OpenOffice has been cancelled.
What GTK+ port?  IIRC, they are going to make OpenOffice into a Bonobo component so that it can be embeded in a Bonobo container.  That componentization does not mean a GTK+ widget interface for OO...
Nice troll...
There "about" field just tell how professional and fact-oriented they are, but their articles look somewhere between MS FUD and /. trolls.
From the front page:
- IBM hasn't made any major open source announcements for several months.
- The Free Lunch crowd is against reasonable and nondiscriminatory licenses.
- Sun drops Gnome from Solaris 9.
I'd put a lot more trust in the last rumor, if it wasn't posted together with the first two exacmples of LinuxGram profesionally reported hard facts.
I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but Gnome 1.4 is already available for Solaris 7/8. So you don't *have* to wait for it to be included with solaris by default to use it.
http://www.sun.com/gnome
www.bleepyou.com
I have tried to install both in Solaris 2.6 (is what we have).Pain,pain, pain.
And that is only the installation.
CDE runs for months before Netscape manges to kill it once in a blue moon.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
All the oil industry is shaken by your comments.
There Solaris is the main desktop in use.
Any other examples would be welcomed.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
But the dependenices, order, library versioning is horribly complicated. I calculate I would need 3 or 4 full days to make a compile succesful... if at all ...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Miguel is famous for starting something and not sticking it through to the end. He's started and inspired a menagerie of different projects...from GNOME to evolution, to bonobo to....etc. Has he stayed around to finish any of them? NO. He jumps from project to project like an ADD monkey, leaving everything half-done.
Is it any surprise GNOME is percieved as having lost focus?
I wonder how much that Register article about GNOME 2.0 stung. The sad thing is, all rhetoric aside, the Reg had some good points.
You make this out to be such a big deal and it's not. Sun will ship Gnome in Solaris 9, just not in the initial release. Each Solaris release has updates and Sun will put Gnome in one of those. So it will make 9, just not the initial release of 9.
But here we are talking of _Solaris_, which is not exactly an OS for 'non-technically minded people'.
Rather, the question is: would GNOME or KDE be the best desktop for the kind of people which buy and uses Sun workstations?
My personal answer is: not anymore. The 1.x versions were quite apt (especially kde, IMO, which borrowed several things from CDE). The 2.x versions (present for KDE, near future for Gnome), with their full complement of gadgets, are now much more user-desktop oriented for that (though using selected components only is still an option).
A more effective user interface for scientific and engineering workstation, IMO, could be something like Window Maker + a lightweight file manager (e.g. ROX). Or maybe XFCE, which also offer an easier transition path for CDE users (though I never liked CDE look-and-feel).
Ciao
----
FB
It's blatant bullshit.
KDE has bindings for other languages...take kjava or the Python bindings, for example.
Ah, but actually getting the FACTS before you spout off (and get modded "insiteful" by stupid slashdot moderators) is too much effort, I guess.
This post freaked me out. Just replace "Sun" with "IBM" and "Java" with "OS/2" and it sounds like something I heard over and over 6 years ago. Damn if it didn't come true.
I love Java, much like I loved OS/2. They are/were great technologies; there just wasn't anything else that kept up. In 1995, Windows 95 was on the horizon... and the end of OS/2 was coming.
So here we are in 2001, talking about how Sun's right hand isn't working with the left hand, much like IBM in 1995... and .NET on the horizon.
Tell me it'll be all right, mommy.
There are lots of points with great merit comparing and contrasting GNOME and KDE, so you really shouldn't have to resort to this sort of misinformation. I think the biggest thing KDE is doing right that GNOME is sucking at is having quick release cycles. We wait too long to get changes out to users, which tends to make user improvements to the core desktop more sluggish than they should be. We're gunning for a really quick turnaround release for GNOME2 - GNOME2.2 with primarily user improvements (using a lot of the new architecture that has been rewritten and/or added). Also, significant usability assesments and rewriting of problem areas is being done, both for GNOME2 and post GNOME2, which should improve the reach of the desktop to a whole range of new non-technical users in the years to come.
-Seth (Nautilus hacker, GNOME2 Release comittee, GNOME UI Lead)
Okay, I'm running the July release of Solaris 8 on an anchient Ultra Enterprise 1 with Gnome. And mind you, that's not the Creator, but the non-64-bit capable, 167 MHz really old UltraSparc. And you know what? It's pretty fast running a few terminals, opera, and some ldap browsers. Throw in a few rarely used servers including Novell's eDirectory and stuff still doesn't slow down. Changing panes takes a second to a second and a half unless one of my daemons is pegging the CPU, but pretty much everything else is fine. Granted, I'm not running Nautilus, but why would I want to run such a bloated piece of crap when I have "ls", "locate", "cp", "rm", "mv" and "df"?
And I agree with the poster who was wondering what the @(&* you were thinking running any kind of GUI on a workhorse server? Repeat after me, "GUI's do NOT belong on servers"!
I like lots of people. That doesn't mean I go carting them around the galaxy with me. --Dr. Who
GNOME will come to Solaris, its just a matter of Solaris 9 being deployed before GNOME 2 is finished. Sun really wants GNOME 2 to be the first "officially supported" release of GNOME they ship (they have already done an unsupported technology preview CD). Lots of Sun developers are working on GNOME, and they're still pushing to get GNOME in Solaris as quick as possible (probably in an update to 9).
cheers,
-Seth
But Linux sucks less than any of the alternatives, all the while it costs less. And while Linux borrows liberally from its predecessor, just about every major feature in Windows or MacOS has been taken from other people's systems as well.
If they want performance and efficiancy they should include flwm. It's small simple and fast to use, and it takes about 10K of memory. Can you say that about Gnome or KDE?
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
**Neither Gnome *NOR* KDE, IMHO, are ready for Solaris and other environments. KDE and Gnome both feel too disjointed to really make the Unix desktop feel like a computer that non-technically minded people would use.**
non-technically minded people have no business running anything with regards to unix except an idiot-proof kiosk. i'm tired of trying to help idiots run linux/bsd just because its "neat" and "different". we are talking about servers and gui's have no business in an enterprise level enviroment. please leave the resources for my checkpoint firewall and oracle databases you devilish ram gusslers.
not too hard to break up your post see?
fool
I can not believe that the parent post got the moderation (Score 5: Insightful).
I am sure that he has had some problems with Nautilus bloat (which is a commen problem), but Sawfish bloat is really a stupid comment.
I am also sure that he has grown up on CDE, but to claim that the Gnome interface is clumsy and difficult relative to CDE or Windows for a new user, is just rubbish. Also, one should give Sun credit for working hard on making the Gnome interface more user friendly, something all GUI should have even mind all the time.
But the real troll comment is "GNOME is at least five years away from any sort of maturity". Since we just have celebrated KDE's 5 years birthday, that is one of the least : Insightful comments I have seen in this whole slashdot posting. Talk about not paying attention for the last 10 years.
Moderators, wake up!
--- guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people ---
Jesus Christ.. how the FUCK did you get moderated to +5 ? I havent had a segfault with GNOME or KDE in months (running the latest versions) Maybe you used RedHat 6.0 which came with GNOME 1.0 or something and based your rant on that.
Yes Aqua is nice, but KDE or GNOME arent slowing down, and will soon catch up.
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
Ummmm, just a thought...MacOS X could to have informed your thinking on this one.
You don't have to be running X all the time!
You don't have to be running an X server on the server -- you can manage through a remote X session if you have X-based apps!
X is so much more flexible than the Windows gui in that regard, I don't see room for adequate comparison.
Don't waste your mod points on negative moderation unless someone really deserves it. Do not use moderation to advance your point of view. This is not merely a troll, it is a viewpoint! And one that a vast number of people agree with. I wouldn't waste a point modding it up as funny either, mind you.
My "normal bird" gives some advice:
O> -- If you want GNOME for Solaris,
/ ) go to Ximian's web site.
X
Will I retire or break 10K?
...time for the inevitable "KDE is going gangbusters, GNOME is going to hell in a handbasket" post.
I'm seriously thinking about switching to twm after a friend showed me how it doesn't take any shit from the apps.
The GNOME Desktop is developed using the GTK toolkit which uses the LGPL License.
The KDE Desktop is developed using Qt toolkit. The Qt toolkit is licensed under GPL (free edition).
The Free Software Fundation recommends using GPL instead LGPL for software. The reason is that GPL encourage free software projects but LGPL can be used in any project (remember that FSF promotes FreeSoftware).
So ? What toolkit whould FSF promote ? Qt or GTK ?
What Dekstop should FSF support ? KDE or GNOME ?
You may say that Qt is not pure GPL because it is dual licensed. But that make no sense. If Qt is distributed under a non-free (free as in beer) license, this is an extra motivation for developers to use the GPL edition.
I think FSF should evaluate which is the best way to achieve its objetives.
MOD THE CHILD UP!
You get a toolkit that makes sense, is well designed, and well supported. With GNOME you get "major rewrites". GNOME developers are beholden only to themselves, while Troll is going to treat developers as customers.
...then they can start a KDE channel using Red Carpet.
They would be practically handing the workstation market to IBM.
There is a place for Java, and this isn't it.
It never actually made it past the Openstep for Solaris 1.1 Beta.
It was nice-ish. As a long time die-hard NEXTSTEP user and administrator, I found it a nice hybrid. I supported it in production development on sun4m for a very large financial company that was a heave NEXTSTEP/OpenStep base.
OpenStep looks like hell in dithered 8-bit from TGX and GX graphics on Sun. I think if you really want to run openStep on Sun, run OpenStep (mach) 4.2 for SPARC. Still looks like hell in 8-bit, but 256 grayscale is sweet actually.
I have a Sparc20 712 (dual 75MHz SuperSparc), 256/18GB, and it is running Solaris 8 with GNOME underneath, but CDE as the WM. Less colormap flashing and color cube mooching by the WM. Yet I still have gkrellm and GNOME Terminal, etc.
Running on an 8-bit video system, you get a great appreciation for 16 and 32-bit mainstream video options these days. GNOME and OpenStep, though nice framwork platforms for PC, are ill suited for SPARC, IMHO.
My 1989 NeXT Cube is still running, is my mail, NFS, and printing solution, and is cool as hell, however.
I've run Sun desktops for years.
And I'm still using fvwm2 because I don't like the bloat of CDE. It was especially bad in the early years when it first came out and the hardware SPARCStation 2's and 10's was not as fast as it is now.
Now, with the hardware capabable, I'm hoping to use either Gnome or KDE, just because it seems like more development is occurring for those environments than for CDE.
It's too bad Gnome won't be coming with Solaris 9.
Over the next month I'll bring up an Athlon system as soon as I can buy SuSE 7.3. I suspect that for desktop applications it will suit me better. Then, if I really need a Solaris app, I'll run it over X from the server.
Except for the OpenGL based stuff...hmmm.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I've tried all the major versions of KDE. Sure is nice...my grandma could probably use it. Too cluttered and slow for me. I've also tried all the major versions of Gnome. Seems a little zippier than KDE, and my mom could probably use it. Too much clutter for me.
I keep going back to Blackbox everytime I try a new "Desktop Environment".
Want karma? Just disavow it in the first ten lines of your post!
P.S., I know I'm going to lose karma for this!
Why does everyone think that all things Java MUST be interpreted? A suite of Java desktop apps could be natively compiled using something like TowerJ or GCJ along with the JRE installed as the static library. The speed and memory use would be very similar to C/C++ native apps.
(Yea, I realize interpreted code can be JIT compiled for speed, but the start-up time is annoying)
By calling that guy a Karma Whore you are just building yourself to get modded up, you Meta-Karma Whore!
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
That is exactly my point. I want stability, not unstable development stuff on Solaris. Keep the wacky code in Linux distros where it belongs.
Actually, I currently run Mandrake 8.0 and SuSE 7.2. As I stated, I have not touched Gnome in a while (Nor do I desire to.) and have been playing with KDE for the last year or so, on numerous laptops and desktops, and have seen segfaults in Konquerer, some of the games, the PDF viewer (Which seems best at bringing up blank pages anyway.), ksirc, kmail, different aspects of the KDE configuration tools.
As for KDE and Gnome catching up, they will never catch up to anything, because playing catch up is all they seem to do. KDE and Gnome are constantly trying to be Mac OS, Windows, each other, and whatever else people want to emulate. Lack of any real identity is the largest flaw in both suites, leading to a strange kludge of design ideas that makes the Windows XP GUI look compact. This is why I like Apple's Aqua, rather than try to push the old Mac ideas much farther, most of it was dumped for something new. The result is a bit odd and lacking at times, but at least they know what they want and where they want to go.
My feeling is that Maurene O'Gara is sometimes deliberately dishonest.
IceWM's a decent window manager, but BlackBox (with the vital component bbkeys) trounces any other wm. It's only a few KB, fast, fast, fast, functional, uncluttered, and pretty good looking (compared to IceWM, especially).
well, GNOME isnt really big on innovation on the interface part, more on the backend that nobody really sees. It pretty much steals the best ideas from every good operating system's interface and melds it together.
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
Is the CDE enterprise quality? It fucking craps out on me at work on Tru64's and sun boxes far more than gnome on linux at home ever has.
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!
All that graphical shit runs on your local web-browser not on the server. Perl or whatever generates a webpage page/form, but its a local window manager and browser sucking up the resources of your crummy local PC, not the fucking server! In any case, I'll take vi'ing a conf file over a 9+meg binary secret registry any fucking day of the week.
It is stupid to conflate graphics point and clicking with the garbage produced by microsoft. Yeah microsoft points and clicks, then crashes.
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!