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Wood PCs For A Nepalese School
An Anonymous Coward writes: "The BBC runs a story about a Nepalese teacher who collects
old computer parts to set up the first computer-equipped school in
Nepal. They assemble the parts into wooden boxes! If you have old parts left, maybe you can donate something, too."
Wooden keyboard, wooden ram... looked nice. The only problem was....it wooden work!
I don't. However, I may have some wooden boxes.
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
Then i wished upon a star... And when i woke up it was a REAL LIVE COMPUTER I called him Tuxicio! Alas though he was eaten by the great white whale M$ But that is a different story.
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
At the moment, we have to walk down for a full day to the nearest city where an internet service is available to communicate with people from around the world
and people though that sneakernet was dead in the world today...
--- I never lie when I have sand in my shoes.
"Wow, those P-IV's are really smokin!"
sigs are for suckers
sounds like a lot of rural areas in the midwest...
- If This Peace Is Fictious, I Shall Destroy It
sounds like a fad.
betcha those paper conservationists will be all over this saying that this will become too popular and we will lose the rainforest.
and god help us all if one of these caught fire.
think Wooden Athlon. "Warm in the winter"
--donabal
Safety First Day?
If you die while surfing the net in Nepal, you can be buried in your own case. How cool is that?
we had wooden computers back when we were young. We will also say we only had 128 MB of RAM at the time (and we liked it! We loved it!), had to look at pr0n on a 15" monitor (CRT no less, not those fancy smancy plasma LCDs!!!), and had to walk 15 miles to download the latest version of Linux (uphill, both ways!!!).
Is there a site online where you can see various places like this that could benefit from the donation of old parts and computers?
I'm sure we all have 486's and RAM and old drives and God knows what else laying around that's more or less "worthless" to us, but would make all the difference to students in need!
I wonder if they have line of sight between the ISP-equipped village and their village. Hmmm....
Seems like a good candidate for a wireless link.
I'd suggest:
(1) Gathering your stuff to send
(2) Packing carefully
(3) Finding out how much shipping will cost
(4) Send that amount of money
Reports of my deaf have been greatly exaggerated.
Let's see if they get letters from the "BSA"..
If you have old parts left, maybe you can donate something, too." ;)
What, you mean old tables and chairs?
So I just read the article, I come back and saw a few comments had been posted at they were all a bunch of wise-ass remarks about the wooden cases. WTF!?!
Ok, check it out people, this guy deserves props of the highest magnitude. He's out in the middle of no where. His home is poorer than the poorest part of the US, hell, they didn't even get a phone until a few years ago, now they have one.
Did he let that stop him? No!
HE went out, got a bunch of old computers and began building working units.
He hit a roadblock, namely the fact his village didn't have any power, so you know what. This TEACHER went out and set up his OWN POWER generators in a nearby stream.
This guy's improving his home. He's single-handly turning in into something from our 1700's into something from the early 1990's. That a big freakin' technological jump and something he should be commended for. All you assholes need to show a little admirination (and respect) for what this gentleman and his village have done.
If I had the cash (read: not a poor student) I'd buy this guy a GSM hook-up myself.
Nepal could use our help. It is a very poor country. The ruling family was so abusive that their own son, the crown prince, killed them.
CNN: NEPAL. Report paints picture of prince's drunken rampage, June 4, 2001
Nepal's 48-hour king dies after royal massacre, June 3, 2001
"The former Crown Prince Dipendra was admitted to hospital late on Friday with what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound after reportedly slaughtering most of his family with an assault rifle as they sat around a dinner table."
Nepal's King orders massacre probe amid riots.
"Analysts say Gyanendra now faces a struggle to restore the role of the monarchy as a pillar of stability in the country of 22 million people where Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala has faced violent street protests against his rule.
What should be the Response to Violence?
Bush's education improvements were
Hey, wait a sec! If they do not run Linux, how did this end up on /. in the first place?
No, I am not serious. In fact, I am probably joking...
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
Luckily no links were put up in the BBC article to the schools web server. Otherwise the /. effect could have literally burnt the server up.
Its nice to know the little gnomes inside the computer will be able to keep nice and warm. Wouldn't want any large metal surface area to cool off their home. I guess if it gets TOO hot they could always use the moisture that gathers around the case on a damp day.
Liquid Gaming - Your daily dose of gaming news
I would venture to say that these people are very fortunate in a number of ways, aside from actually getting their hands on technology. They are delving into the computer experience for the first time, and many are possibly enjoying the experience felt by some of our older members. There was a time in this country where computers were an ethereal thing. Very little access, not to many around, time sharing, etc. But it's very interesting to explore their workings for the first time!
Why bother.
Really cold?
Those wooden boxes are going to be some serious heat insulators. (This is why PC Cases are metal - they can disperse the heat away from the components rather well.)
I don't know how well a wooden box is going to work...and if it does work, how long will it be before some components fail because of overheating? Then will they blame the hardware?
I carried the parts in two suitcases. Most of them were 486 DX2 models and some Pentium I models, with Window [sic] 95 and Microsoft Office 97.
Are they legit? I seriously doubt the people who donated this hardware also donated the licenses to Office and Windows. What happens if a few of these things need a reinstall? Are they just plunking these computers on to a network "As-Is"? Is that a smart idea?
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's fantastic what this dude is doing. Problem is, he needs to make sure he does it the right way so he doesn't get screwed over later on. (Be it a license issue, a hardware issue, or some rogue virus/worm on one of the boxen that is found "the hard way".)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Talking about building your own computers..
I remember reading an article in a computer magazine back in about 1981.. Around this time the Acorn Atom was the computer to have - and fortunately for the ubergeek of the 80's, you were able to purchase this wonderful machine in a Kit form (basically a pile of components, case and a pcb)..
Whilst sifting through the readers letters section I had found, quite amusingly, that someone had complained to the BBC (who I believe where manufacturing these computers at the time) that his newly built Acorn Atom kit did not work -
Turns out he'd glued the components onto the PCB using epoxy.
Maybe they forgot the instructions in the box? I have no idea, but I truly cannot imagine anyone even contemplating to build a computer from a kit if they had no clue whatsoever what the general electronics involvement would have been..
Next Month: "Build your own raid cabinet using balsa wood!"
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
The oeganization, Students For Change have been working on this problem.
Not only are they working on their computer skill,s but small-business skills as well. Although I'm not sure what they'd use SB skills for, being a tiny, isolated rural communtiy, but it might be a good idea.
Well, I got a few cases I could spare. :)
This may be off-topic, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
While I was working throughout the Mediterranean, I met several Nepalese security officers. Those familiar with British military history may recall that Nepalese soldiers, b.k.a. Gurkhas, have been used by the Brits for several wartime, policing and security activities.
Unfortunately, the Gurkhas got a huge black eye courtesy of the Brits when they were used to kill peaceful, unarmed Indian protestors, including children, during Gandhi's early days. Aside from that unfortunate incident, the Nepalese have been great friends of the Brits and have worked and fought side-by-side with them for nearly 200 years.
The Nepalese I met were, as a whole, some of the most courteous, respectful, hard-working and fun-loving people I've ever met. In short, I've never met a Nepalese that I didn't like.
I want to add that I don't hold any grudge against the Nepalese nor the Britons for past indiscretions. There is not a race, religion or nationality on the planet that hasn't committed an atrocity at some point in history. But by today's standards, the Nepalese are really good people.
If anyone on that side of the world deserves our help, even if it's just old computer parts, it's them.
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
I've often wanted a wooden case for my PC, and even drew up plans once. Then I remembered exactly how much heat my Athlon and 3dfx video card put out.
(I cooked a nic in my first PCI slot until it wouldn't work any more, not realizing how hot the 3dfx's heatsink really was.)
Wood is not known for its heat conductance. In fact, one of the reasons people started building homes out of wood was that wood is a better insulator than stone or metal.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Those will never make the Cool Case gallery....
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Of course, the drawback is that hardware 'bugs' will take on a completely new (or, should i say, completely old) definition as termites and other pests befriend their new warm, wooden homes.
But seriously, how neat would it be to have a PC that looks like a 30's UHF radio?
--- sig moved for great justice.
Wooden boxes run fine - I built myself a black cube box(celeron-600) from chipboard for $15. It runs cooler and quieter than my old metal tower, plus it looks better.
I thought a major reason for not using wooden cases was heat dissipation (sp?) issues... Am I wrong?
Score:-1, Funny
I'd get a wooden PC if they can make it look like a video game cabinet from the early 1980s. A little wood here, some black rubber striping there, and maybe make a fake marquee up, and boom, the perfect retro computer for MAME!
This is one of the best PC mods I've seen since Cdr Taco Arcade Machine 8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
My roommate from college put together a really nice oak computer case. Sure, it doesn't have the best thermal transfer, but who cares. It's not an overclocker box. Oh yeah, and it'll give you wood, heh-heh. It r0x0rz your world.
Quick, someone call Bill Gates. These people need to be threatened with legal action as soon as possible. They are obviously not using properly licensed software from Microsoft, and as such are obviously thieving b*stards.
My God, when will people ever learn? I hope Microsoft doesn't let these scum get away easily, like they did with the PCs for Kids project in East Timor.
Wood makes a lot of sense for the Napalese. Think about it. It's abundant, it's cheap, and if they really got into the student educating bit, they could have students build their cases (anyone ever take wood shop?).
As far as heat goes, it's actually an easy problem to aleviate... open the case. If it ran semi-exposed they could dump a lot of heat. Also remember that the 486 was still able to run without a fan (fans and passive heat sinks were optional) so they won't be suffering quite as badly as, say, an athlon would.
If I can't see it in Lynx I'm not interested.
I was really surprised: a lot of stupid jokes in comments. Probably you -- people who enjoy self-made wooden jokes about wooden cases -- do not unserstand what is really poor country. I'm Russian (thanks God I live in Finland now working for Nokia) and -- believe me -- 95% of people in Russia think that $100/month (one hundred dollars per month) is very good salary. Most of these people cannot hope to get even half of this. And I guess: Nepal isn't as rich as Russia :-) :-(
I would be a bit concerned about the effects of overheating on the wood though, with a Pentium system drawing around 40W, there needs to be plenty of ventilation or that wood could go up in smoke!
Same thing with the schools in Africa that are trying this same approach - gathering up anything and everything they can that us spoiled folks take for granted and consider "junk."
I know that I'd rather see a student in an under-developed use my old gear than have it sit in my closet to impress my friends with how much old crap I've got laying around.
This guy did it as a project. And This guy apparently felt his effort was worth a web-photo album about his computer "Woody".
I also remember reading an article in Wired a couple of years ago about a company that was doing high end PC's what were encased in mahogany and teak and other stuff like that, but I can't find the company now. I gues it's for the executive who has everything and doesn't actually need anything.
Honestly, I think making a computer case out of clay, adobe or ceramics might be better and cheaper. Additionally, there would be a reduced fire hazard and the materials are available onsite. I also think Paper Mache might be good for laptops (weight, you know). Of course, you'd have to have a KILLER fan to keep it from bursting into flames and you'd most certainly have to keep it out of the rain, but there you go.
The Dopester
"Yes, I'm a Karma Whore, but I'm doing it to pay my way through school."
This may be a bit off subject from your post, but I figured I'd mention that I have a wooden case myself. It's not pretty, but it works: log. Maybe when I can get a job I'll be able to add front/back panels and use some wood polish on it.
Regarding your post, you're right. I give a lot of credit to that guy. Thanks to those kind of teachers, kids around the world may be inspired to do something to improve their life.
--- d'oh
... of a guy I once knew who built a PC in a briefcase because he couldn't afford a laptop. It seemed to work fine, even if he did need a monitor/kybd/mouse to plug in to it.
Why not Cardboard? Cardboard!
"...Since then I have been trying to find ways and means to get a telephone line good enough to get the internet in the village..."
If you take the time to read the item you'll note that he has the computers set up (though no doub t more for other schools etc would be greatly apprecaited) what hes after (and the bbc has a comment box to submit suggestions) are suggestions on how to get net access for the school. /. has covered similar topics a couple of times, but if you've actual experience of setting up such a network and the pros and cons of various methods please comment on the orriginal story where it may get back to Mahabir Pun rather than preaching to the choir here on /.
troodon.net
It is the manifold way of Dharma. You crash you come back of something less worthy.
Seriously though, if a heat sink were to fall off, they'de be serious fire hazzards ;)
Teamwork is a bunch of people doing what I tell them.
hopefully the telco ran at least two twisted pairs, otherwise a half duplex tx/rx protocol would be needed. that would require a state machine. which could still only be a PIC chip, so still quite feasible.
or, perhaps a little less practical, how about using some computers with two modems for repeaters? the modems could be put in leased-line mode to avoid the need for dial tones, and then perhaps you would only need a battery to power up the line between two stations. how far could the stations be apart? the signal would be decoded and regenerated each hop. seems like any basic routing software could be used to support PPP packet forwarding, or else some simple C program could be written to echo whatever comes in on a character-by-character basis.
Devin Durham already performed such a mod some years ago. The results are fairly impressive; most notable is the vertically-mounted CD drive behind the tuner dial.
It is unlikely, however, that the boxes in the article were so elaborate. My guess is that the modern wooden cases look more like orange crates than radios.
"Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho
Okay, this guy's got the problem of how to get the internet into his village. He laments that the nearest access point is in the city, a day's walk away, and that he can't afford a satellite phone...
How far is a day's walk? Is it farther than an 802.11b? With tuned antennas? I mean, an 802.11b access point could be the answer... big upfront cost, but no ongoing cost. And he's already bought 15 monitors and 2 power generators, so the cost of an access point at the big city ISP may be trivial next to that...
Anyone have any ideas on that? How far is a daywalk, anyways?
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
The Geek Corps could help this guy out. Right now they work in Ghana helping companies implement modern IT solutions, etc. Why not send some geek teachers to Nepal to spend time with the kids, showing them how to install Linux and programs their computers in C++?
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Actually, the P4 has better heat management than the Athlon. ;-) Take the cooler off a P4, it keeps running, albeit it goes slower. Take the cooler off a P3, it locks. Take the cooler off a T-bird, it destroys itself and the mobo in under 2 seconds. FWAMF!! Sizzle.
;-)
Just about the ONLY good thing about the P4 tho.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
"about sending parts to nepal: save it. people need medicine, food more than they do 486es. i commend what this guy is doing. and he's doing what he knows best. save that money and give to UNICEF."
Giving food and/or medicine helps one time. Giving something to someone that will help to better educate them will make them much better off in the long run. This guy is helping much more than it appears on the surface.
--
"What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
there ain't much to teach when they're dead, are they amigo?
Several people saw him kill his parents.
The said that it wasn't him because they didn't want to believe it. Also, the others in the ruling family want to keep power.
The initial stories were completely accurate. Later the ruling family tried to put a spin on it.
Bush's education improvements were
Their web page is on a machine not at their village. Not one of the oh-so-hilarious (apparently) wooden boxen. Their village is still without internet service.
Now spit out your foot and read the article next time. =P
-Kasreyn.
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
2.) When programmers use these do they really get 'burnt out' after a while?
Dan
You know, I found it damn disappointing that I read all these comments and NOBODY had one single practical thing to say (unless I missed it) about helping this guy out. How many floppy drives do YOU have? How many old 486 parts? How many of you, like me, are sysadmins, and throw away or recycle buttloads of this stuff all the time? Shame on you! Talking about 'wow, that's a really good idea' when YOU'RE the people these kids need help from!!
Because I'm not slime, I've written to the BBC asking for more information about where and what WE (the rich US techies) could send to the Nepalese students. When I get more info I'll post it...but at least they'll be getting a shipment from *me*.
Hmph.
ST
You could also go down to you local lumber yard and get some sheets of Wood Venier.
I am still waiting for Norm on the Old Yankee WorkShop to build one of these.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
It wasn't until a year or two later that I upgraded to a wooden box for the motherboard and drives. The monitor however, remained in a cardboard cover until several years when I upgraded to a UNIX based AT&T 3B1.
Like they say, "It's the engine that counts!"
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Wood cases seems like a pretty cheap way to do it. Only trouble is, wood does not block radio frequency interference very well. (If it did, radios wouldn't work in our houses :-P )
What are the chances of nearby RF causing problems in these computers? Could include anything from data corruption to mysterious system crashes. Another possibility is RF from the computers interfering with other nearby RF devices. ("Why does my garage door go up and down every time I click on 'OK'?")
I guess you could alleviate this with some aluminum foil pasted to the inside of the case, grounded (for you UK'ers, that's "earthed") of course. That would block the electric fields but wouldn't help any magnetic.
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
lot of fun a bunch of you polked at the woody this guy built. wait till a mega corp decides that that's the new thing to go with your furniture and you'll all be lined up outside your favorite mall to pick one up for a fat wad of cash. i love the smell of corporate-brainwashed-gotta-buy-what-mega-corp-sel ls crowd in the morning.
seriously, i know half of the crowd here making fun of this woody is entirely because it was done by a guy in the remote parts of nepal. after all, what does he know right? had it been a global-multinational corp., we'd have preordered it. one guy went on to mention how woody wouldn't dessipate the heat. well maybe because it's so freaggin' cold up there in the mountains it doesn't get all that hot anyways. also, since the buildings aren't insulated, it's one big wind tunnel. ever thought of that? huh? huh?
open source/GNU hypocrats. it's 'for the people by the people' at it's finest. i seriously hope that this guys does everything himself without the help of some mega-corp.
Some of this stuff is really nice.
the PC specs on the site for the towers units are a bit out of date, but the rest is pretty nice.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
When I read this, I couldn't help but think of all the inevitable comments that come up about bloat/speed in KDE/GNOME/Mozilla/StarOffice/Whichever piece of software hits your hot button.
Someone always belittles the complainers and points out how cheap memory/processors/HD is these days.
Something like this reminds us of how fortunate we are and how spoiled we have become.
It's also a pointed example of why monopolies whose software must run on the biggest and newest hardware cannot be left to own the entire computing field.
Way to go guys. If I wore a hat, it would be off to you.
OK...here's the troll:
Microsoft to Nepalese School: Are those OS's licensed? You are due for an audit.
OK, I would like to say that 15 computers isn't too bad. I bet there are some inner city US schools that would like to have that many PC's. The high school that I went to in small town Columbia, PA, was lucky to have that many PC's. Certain members of our wise school board did not think it was necessary to spend money on technology because, "they didn't have computers when they went to school and they still turned out OK." Rather, the basketball team got new uniforms...EVERY YEAR.
Anyway, I think what this guy did is great. I mean, he started his own high school and now he is taking the initiative to make something of it. I hope they can get a good net connection. There has got to be a satellite broadband company out there that is not too stingy to donate one connection. Hey, its a tax write off too!
That would rock.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
no text
/. is like having a shit filter on your ass" - anon.
lalala
I don't like lameness filters.
"having a lameness filter on
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
If you want to help so bad, go over there yourself. Then you'll see who we're up against. Osama bin Laden could care less about your compassion. He wants you dead too.
I prefer a void in conversation to a vacuous one.
(4) Send that amount of money
I suppose that will cover the cost of shipping for the new system? My $50 in shipping (cost per pound from US to Japan, rough memory, bad logic leap) will provide a box full of parts that can build or upgrade several computers. My $50 check won't get them a single motherboard, much less pay for it's shipping. My step 3 is to mail the box.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Nepal is a LONG way from Afghanistan. I guess you don't know this.
Bush's education improvements were
Friends,
Just one 256k SIMM can give a family of 12 poor Nepalese children the gift of warez; brilliant games like Platoon, Congo Bongo and Tapper. How can we ever expect such pagan misguided souls to become as technologically advanced as us if they can't work out how to defeat Donkey Kong and save the chick? Never mind about food, once we get them hooked on these games they won't be so hungry any more. Send your x86 PC bits today!
For those of you wondering how or who might benefit from computer skills, or parts, you may want to check out http://www.tecschange.org/ (Based in Roxbury, MA)
They've only got a half-time staff person so their response time may be slow, but they've been sending computers all over the world for almost ten years.
This should give someone the idea to start making designer PC boxes in Burled Walnut or Cherry to match your home's decor. You can have designs carved into the side, and put coasters on top so you don't get rings in your case from your cold mug of beer!
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
Joking aside. This guy is the Man. Is there a hacker-of-the-year award? If so, he should get it. Doesn't what he did with spare crap he found/srounged embody the true definition of Hacker?
luddite.com claims to sell wooden pcs, although this website has been here for a few years, and they keep promising to launch on-line ordering. Seems kind of sketchy.
I recently have completed a tour of south asia. The thing that struck me the most was a visit I had with some computer science students at Dhaka University in Bangladesh. They told me that the university only had 2 computers, and that they had been unable to yet use them. I guess they were learning everything in theory. I looked into shipping some of my old computers over there when I got home, but it would have cost far more than the computer was worth. I also visited Nepal, and while there were not computers in the hands of the average person, there were lots of computers that could be used. But perhaps a little more expensive than your average person could afford.
Example 2
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
www.hot-nepalese-coeds.np
they could probably pay for a satelite link and have a bit left over...
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
Listen up whippersnapper, let me tell you about the REAL old days of computing.
We used 2 tin cans and binder twine to network our systems. User A would yell out binary into his can while user B would furiously write down 1's and 0's on a pad. As you can imagine there were some inherent problems with this system. If you ran out of paper in the middle of executing an application you got a "general page fault". This term is still used today. Another bit of trivia for you: Each pad shipped with a blue cardboard backing on it to provide some amount of support while you were writing. Unfortunately when you flipped over that last usable sheet of paper you would see "the blue sheet of death" and your program would terminate. We used the acronym B.S.O.D. to describe this nasty event.
I could go into our cornflakes box/wax paper speaker systems but I think you get the general idea.
- Toby
Not to be outdone by the Nepalese, a school in Bhutan has begun to grow PC cases out of melons.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
Regarding parts, I have several XT's and 286's growing mold in the basement - had thought about donating them to third-world countries, but what OS could they run to allow any useful web access?
Sure, there's a TCP/IP stack for Win3.1, but the 8088 boxen are not even up to that. Kind of a shame - they came from a small newspaper and were running WP 5.1 and Pagemaker under Windows runtime. Any ideas?
db
Cig:
ôô
What the person has done is commendable - that's without doubt, but there are REAL problems that the BBC story fails to give out. My self being from Nepal and working in similiar area, I think one of the major concern is not being able to use the available computer in Nepali or other local languages.
/.ers. For Nepal related information, www.nepalhomepage.com is the best resource.
I have seen computers being placed in many villages and school - which are ultimately monopolised by people who can understand English. The majority of students are required to understand english - before they can use computers, which is a problem. With the Unicode implementations of Devnagari (the Nepali Script), this may be possible - but can someone point out to any serious work that is being done.
Also, line-of-sight wireless would probably not be so useful as it's a hilly area. If it was remotely possible for the Telco to provide better telephone system (out of the many systems they use), they would do it - as it turns out to be chepaer for them.
I wouldn't worry about wooden casing, as it looks like it's open on one side, so that he can connect keyboard, mouse and monitors.
It is factually incorrect that it is the only school with comptuers for high school students. I know of at least two examples, one from the capital and one from a district in far western nepal.
If i get chance to visit these guys - i will report back to the
cheers
gaurab
This is an excellent and salient article, but it
makes a foolhardy leap between its descriptive
factual basis and its prescriptive conclusion.
In any community with low mean intelligence there
will be a number of individuals with exceptional
intelligence, and providing the means for those
individuals to exploit their productive capacity
is much more important than is similarly equipping
those who live in a priviledged community, because
those exceptional individuals residing in a
disadvantaged community will support a very large
number of less capable individuals in their
community. Mere productivity is in fact
non-productive, if the produce is not distributed.
By making the capable individuals in a
disadvantaged community as productive as possible,
one improves the proximity of the product to the
site of greatest need.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
IQ is an outdated method of determining intelligence, and is biased towards the west, remember IQ tests were created in the USA when ppl were also using shock therapy to treat schizophrenia, that puts the relevance of IQ tests in perspective huh... there are countries that dont even recognise IQ as a measure of intelligence.
if you had the serious impediments to education that nepalese children have, do you think you would score anything close to what you would on your IQ test? ever had to trek 3 days over mountains and then catch a helicopter to get to school???? (thats a true story btw)
given those figures you quoted, the higher IQ's appear in the wealthier countries... theres already a $300 US billion flow from the third world to the first each year.. by your logic we should further increase the lead of the first world at the expense of the third world? thats more flawed than the IQ tests themselves =p
id feel a lot more comfortable with you espousing your elitist -BS- if it actually had some scientific basis other than flimsy tests which were developed by, and for, Americans in a time when people considered themselves safe under a nuclear umbrella and sprayed DDT around like it was water.
DHL's website says it'll cost $369 to ship 20 lbs from my hometown in California to Nangi, Nepal.
Mahabir is spreading the word about UNK in Nepal and we now boast a good-sized community of Nepalese students. Most of them are here in our Computer Science/Information Systems program. UNK boasts a large number of international students considering that we are a small university (approx. 6500 students) in the middle of the heartland. We support our international students in a variety of ways and boast one of the best educational values (read: low tuition, low cost of living) in the country!
If you are looking for a safe, low-crime environment in which to get your undergraduate degree:Check us out!.
Lower bandwidth site: here.
Curious George
***General Consultant to the Human Race*** My opinions are free. You get what you pay for.
Lemme get this straight... he build cases that you can buy new for $20 but bought brand new monitors that cost way more than $20...
"Times may change, but standards must remain the same." - George Carlin.
A summer ago i spent around two months in Nangi, the village mentioned in this article. They were just getting the phone line working back them. Nangi is a amazing place, and Mahabir (the guy in charge) has worked really hard to improve conditions there. They've made tremendous progress. If you're looking for the coolest volunteer opportunity on the planet, this is it. Go to Nangi, a village in the foothills of the annapurna himalaya, and use your mad computer skills to help them get a viable set up going there. Want a totally new set of problems to solve? Try networking in the third world! Go and lend them your knowledge and experience. If you do, they will happily put you up in a guest hut and provide your meals while you stay. Or help in other ways: sent equipment/hardware to Mahabir (he has a US address you can use), or, if you're a head honcho at a big company, sponsor something substantial for the village. Pay for a satilite hook up to the internet. Pay for a teacher (that's easy: the average per cap income in Nepal is less than $250). Pay for a new building--only a few thousand. Hell, sponsor an essay contest. They will appreciate it and let you know it.
if you're interested in Nangi and have questions about what it's like there, how to get there, what to do, etc, please just hit me at the email address above.
Seth
While your statistics are very how you say,"interesting", I have been to Nepal (have you?) and I would venture to say the people there are far from retarded. In fact the people are quite wonderful and intelligent in ways number pushers like your sort could not even fathom. For one, they have created a system of Hinduism/Buddhism that it elegant, diverse, imaginative, beautiful, etc.
The Newari people(one of Nepals many many ethnic groups) are considered some of the worlds most accomplished urban planners.
Your so lovely quote, you're so worth quoting!!
World resources, especially computer hardware, should be reserved for the world's most intelligent poulations. It is these population that have the capability of raising world economic standards. Yes, these are the only ways you can help the people of Nepal: Contribute to the economic growth of the first world and educate yourself about eugenics.
Your Christain Eugenics doctrine is a veiled attempt at Nazisism and really needs to be shoved very far up the collective nether region of people who spew this rhetoric. I know your a troll, but I am risking Karma to call you on it.
The people of Nepal at this point need education, in the form of computers, reading materials, sex education and the like. It is our culture who exposed them to this world of "development" where they lost their isolation and now have to be part of the "real world". With that comes a loss of culture and values as they struggle to be part of your paradigm of statistics.
I say fsck it. And fsck you for wishing the extermination of anyone. Don't you creepy twisted Christians have anything else to do with yourselves than hide behind a veil of false science? Just one look at the websites promoting the cause lumps ya in with the rest of the right wing wackos.
Really, this post is quite the funny foil to the parent's over reacting rant. Of course the guy deserves a statue for what he's done... but jumping down all our throats for NOT LAUGHING AT HIM is quite out of line.
If they were using Hemp, they could make 7 cases for every one that they are making now....
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
...where the Athlon went up in smoke and turned a firey 900 degrees? With a wooden case, it could actually burn everything around you down in a blaze of glory. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
today is spelling optional day.
He he, he he, I've got a woody.
<butthead>Shutup beavis</butthead>
<beavis>he he</beavis>
1.) Aren't they concerned with EMI up in Nepal?
2.) These schools aren't going to be calculating the Nine Billion Names of God are they?
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
This project looks interesting, and it reminded me of something I found looking through the LinuxFund project proprosals. The ganesha's project people are working on developing a school LAN using relatively old PCs and various free software. You can vote for the project to receive funding from the cool LinuxFund people at this link.
I can't help but wonder if some technical books might be even harder to get (and correspondingly useful as donations) than x486 class hardware components.
-emile
Emile Snyder
www.talentcodeworks.com
Anonymous Coward wrote:
x .html
/ qi d=1003792538/ref=sr_11_0_1/104-6231499-6599137
IQ is an outdated method of determining intelligence,
IQ is a well-developed, statistical scale of wide-spectrum social-outcome prediction. It is a measurement of deviation from a given population mean according to the to the measure "g". g is the ability to educe relations and correlates. g is highly heritable. As far as non-heritable factors influencing the development of g, the most important is early-life nutrition, both pre- and post-natal. One of the least important factors (if it even has any effect at all -- this is currently still being debated) is institutionalized education.
Normally, the g mean is set to 100 and the standard deviation is set to 15. According to these settings, 68% of the given population lies within one standard deviation of the mean (between IQ 85 and IQ 115). IQ 115 means you are above 84% of the population and below the remaining 16%. IQ 85 means you are above 16% of the population and below the remaining 84%. IQ 120 means you are above 90%, IQ 126 means you are above 95%, and IQ 130 means you are above 97.7%.
and is biased towards the west,
Which explains why the top five nations on my list are Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore.
remember IQ tests were created in the USA
The first IQ test was created in France:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/1
234/binet.html
when ppl were also using shock therapy to treat schizophrenia, that puts the relevance of IQ tests in perspe
ctive huh...
Exactly. I think "huh..." is the perfect response to that statement.
there are countries that dont even recognise IQ as a measure of intelligence.
Well. That's pretty interesting.
if you had the serious impediments to education that nepalese children have, do you think you would score anything close to what you would on your IQ test?
I do. However, even for those who do not, the recommendation for eugenics is still valid. In that type of eugenics program, breeding would be restricted at the least to those families capable of providing a stimulating intellectual environment for their children. If you are arguing for lifting the most serious impediments to education, then you are arguing just as vociferously as I am for hard-line eugenics.
ever had to trek 3 days over mountains and then catch a helicopter to get to school???? (thats a true story
btw)
No. Have you ever considered that encouraging uncontrolled breeding by the mentally retarded won't necessarily put a stop to this madness?
given those figures you quoted,
These ones here?:
http://home.att.net/~eugenics/lynn.htm
the higher IQ's appear in the wealthier countries...
That is 1) an astute observation and 2) why the title of Dr. Lynn's book is _IQ and the Wealth of Nations_:
http://info.greenwood.com/books/0275975/027597510
theres already a $300 US billion flow from the third world to the first each year.. by your logic we should further increase the lead of the first world at the expense of the third world? thats more flawed than the IQ tests themselves =p
Since dollars are vouchers for economic resources, and value in the economy is founded on the bedrock of a)nuclear power and b)other advanced technologies, you must mean that the U.S. is robbing the illiterate retardates of the third world of 1)their proprietary advanced nuclear power plant designs and 2)the other advanced technologies they single-handedly develop.
id feel a lot more comfortable with you espousing your elitist -BS- if it actually had some scientific basis
Prepare to get nice and comfy, then:
ht
tp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0275961036
other than flimsy tests
Have you ever seen a Raven? Have you ever studied the reasoning behind its creation? See the above book for a history of the Raven. Take a test very much like a Raven, here:
http://www.queendom.com/tests/iq/culture_fair_i
q.html
which were developed by, and for, Americans
A people who collectively do relatively poorly on these tests compared to orphaned South Korean children with no exposure to U.S. culture.
in a time when people considered themselves safe under a nuclear umbrella
Isn't the average American dumb? World-class scientists must not know anything.
and sprayed DDT around like it was water.
DDT was sprayed because it was a relatively safe way to save millions of lives that would otherwise have been snuffed out by malaria.
-nukebuddy
It links to the Himanchal High School page there. Its timing out for me right now, so here is a google cache
nofutureuk wrote:/ qid=1003803627/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_3_1/104-6231499-659 9137
maybe I am wrong, but, as far as I know, there no scientific way for measuring intelligence or whatsoever.
If that's as far as you know, then feel free to read the last word on IQ from the world's #1 authority on mental testing, Arthur Jensen:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0275961036
There is no way to directly measure g, but there is a way of measuring a strong correlate of g: The Raven's Progressive Matrices.
The IQ is a statistical survey, nothing more.
g is the highly predictive component of IQ. It is said to be highly predictive because it correlates strongly with a wide variety of social outcomes and abilities. It is this predictiveness which makes highly g-loaded IQ a useful tool for persons who care about their worlds and the people they share those worlds with.
The IQ is calculated using statistical averages Not one single scientific measurement does proceed this way.
All scientific measurement proceeds that way. The one thing all scientists unanimously agree upon is that nothing can be measured exactly. Therefore, all sciences rely on statistical averages to determine the probability of the error in their measurements. Not most, not some, but all sciences operate this way.
IQ = Incorrect Quotient
That is true. IQ is false. Since the degrees of it's falseness can be determined with high probablity, it can be used for socially noble purposes by persons with high concientiousness.
Science never tells the truth. Science tells the probable. Religion tells the truth. The only exact measurements humans will ever come across are those contained within holy scripture.
-nukebuddy
aminorex wrote:
In any community with low mean intelligence there will be a number of individuals with exceptional intelligence,
Yes, but, firstly, _exceptional_ by which community's standards? A third-worlder could be exceptional to a first-world population, or merely exceptional compared to his own population. So we have local standards and world standards.
Secondly, things of the nature of _exceptional_ depend on the homogeneity of the population from which the exceptional person emerges. The standard deviation from the mean in the first world is 15 IQ points. In a more homogeneous population (and there is reason to believe Nepal may have a more homogeneous population), the standard deviation will be smaller. We don't know, but the standard deviation in Nepal might only be 10 IQ points.
In that case, the exceptional, 4-standard deviations of the mean 1st worlder would have a world standard IQ of 160. The exceptional, 4-standard deviations of the mean Nepalese would have a world standard IQ of 118 and would be considered rather unremarkable and of low capability. In both populations, these near-geniuses would have an identical presence in their respective populations of about 1 in 30,000 -- equally exceptional subjectively yet drastically dissimilar objectively .
and providing the means for those individuals to exploit their productive capacity is much more important than is similarly equipping those who live in a priviledged community, because those exceptional individuals residing in a disadvantaged community will support a very large number of less capable individuals in their community.
Or perhaps they would simply move to the States where they could apply themselves even more productively. You are proposing the imposition of iron welfare-state status on Nepal. Welfare states magnetically attract the under-capable and megnetically repel the highly capable.
Mere productivity is in fact non-productive, if the produce is not distributed.
In other words, the more genetically defective Nepalese we continue to mass produce, the better, because the more of our valuable resources we give away to genetically defectives, the more productive we are. Imagine how unproductive we would be if everyone was highly capable. Giving anything of value to anyone would be fruitless.
By making
...Coercing...
the capable individuals
..._capable_ as in really capable or capable in terms of being a hellaciously capable Nepales?
in a disadvantaged
...how did it become disadvantaged?
community as productive as possible, one improves the proximity of the product to the site of greatest need.
...where it can then be used to mass produce more of the highly uncapable. Doesn't it feel so good to feed these morons? God, I'm getting a boner myself just thinking about it.
-nukebuddy
your piss ain't good enough!
i was wondering - if the school's poor, how would they be able to afford copies of mswindows and office 97 in their computers? since it's a school i doubt that it's running pirate copies. speaking of money, with the price that you can spend on getting win95 and office 97, you can use the same ammount of money and get a computer that's better than the 486 DX2 they're using. linux is practically so easy to set up for the internet these days i'm surprised that they arent using that.... same amount of money, double the number of computers....
my blog
ainsoph wrote:
While your statistics are very how you say, "interesting", I have been to Nepal (have you?)
No, but thanks for asking an irrelevant question.
and I would venture to say the people there are far from retarded.
Write it up in a report and submit it for publication to a peer-reviewed journal. When it has been accepted, let me know and I will read it.
In fact the people are quite wonderful and intelligent in ways number pushers like your sort could not even fathom. For one, they have created a system of Hinduism/Buddhism that it elegant, diverse, imaginative, beautiful, etc.
Neat. What's the average g there, and what's the standard deviation?
The Newari people(one of Nepals many many ethnic groups) are considered some of the worlds most accomplished urban planners [newarcommunity.com].
No way. What's their average g, BTW? And while you're at it, what's their standard deviation?
Your Christain Eugenics doctrine
Christianity is an anti-eugenics doctrine that demands the stupid be encouraged to breed the most and the intelligent be prevented from breeding.
is a veiled attempt at Nazisism and really needs to be shoved very far up the collective nether region of people who spew this rhetoric. I know your a troll, but I am risking Karma to call you on it.
This paragraph explains why the very-young-boy with his tongue shoved into Rob Malda's anus modded you up.
The people of Nepal at this point need education,
The intelligent can educate themselves. You just said they were intelligent. g = The ability to create new knowledge. They're smart -- so let's see them create new knowledge.
in the form of computers,
Ummm...what's their average g?
reading materials,
Ummm...what's their average g?
sex education
They don't know how to have sex? How smart are these people you say?
It is our culture who[sic] exposed them to this world of "development" where they lost their isolation and now have to be part of the "real world". With that comes a loss of culture and values as they struggle to be part of your paradigm of statistics.
Poor babies. What is their average g BTW?
I say fsck it. And fsck you for wishing the extermination of anyone.
Yeah. Fsck me for not wanting to mass-produce genetic defectives. I'm so evil.
-nukebuddy
Since the box is made of wood, couldn't they use Anderson Windows, instead of Microsoft?? Just a thougt...
--- You are unique, just like everyone else...
wow. you can recite the use of numbers! woop dee doo!
You seem like a one trick pony, do you sing and dance too? Or just recite some crap ya learned in college? Oh didnt goto college? right.. needed a break from that 'Soldier of Fortune' magazine, and 'Mullet Monthly' and read some stuff that made you seem smart? nice one mate.
I will repeat this again, like i have a million times before: You fake racist patriots are not what this country stands for, so ya'll should get together, make a plan and find a place where you can have your little intellectual facism party together. Mullets and monster trucks are required for entry obviously.
how about beef computers for Indian village schools!!?