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HP Officially Announces 40g MP3 Stereo Component
jspectre writes "HP announced their new
de100c "digital entertainment center." Containing a 40g drive and a built in CDRW drive it will store "up to 750 CDs of music" or 9000 tracks. You can make your own playlists and burn them out to CDR/CDRW's. All of this for $999.99. No mention of any digital management controls on the device." I totally need a review model! I saw this thing at the last LinuxWorld and it looked good, but only really playing with it for a few weeks will let me know if it's better then the audiotron that I've been using in my home system.
If I want it for my home, why would I buy this? can't I get an actual CD Jukebox that stores around 100 CD's for about $300? Yeah Yeah, it's cool and everything, but I won't be rushing out to get one. Mp3's seem cost effective in their portability. At home though, $1000 seems a bit much.
This is a bad decision on HP's part and even worse decision by anybody that would actually pay money for this. You can build or purchase a pc that has more functionality and also do all that this box is capable of for less money.
No mention of any digital management controls on the device
Digital management controls on the device would be nice, actually. Digital rights management controls, on the other hand...
How is this significantly different from getting a kick-ass sound card (for around $200) and a 40g hard drive (for around $150) in my computer (which I already own) and hooking it up to my stereo? I can't think of a good reason to spend $999 for dedicated hardware.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Wow! If HP really shipped this thing without any digital rights management, that would show that there is at least one company out there who understands and knows how to do things right.
With all the mismanagement and crappy products coming out of HP recently, I had all but given up on them. But this might show that there is a glimmer of hope after all.
The "technical description" of this product that I have read has been kind of vague. Can anyone confirm that it doesn't do anything whatsoever to restrict what you do with your music?
yeah, it sounds nice, but is it really worth the thousand dollar price tag? an embedded linux system that plays mp3s, burns, and has a 40GB disk. Hopefully the sound quality beats audiotron, but it's still a little pricey for my tastes. Oh, and a possible first post, although I'm sure the anonymous cowards have beaten me to it by now. The price I pay for actually putting down something worthwhile (to me, anyways...)
do not read this line twice.
it's odd that HP would release a product like this, when its newly-assimilated partner Compaq just released an eerily similar product at the exact same price point. And from what i can tell, the Compaq product is less attractive, as it lacks the CD-burner feature. Spooky.
Would it really be that hard to build one of those for far less than HP is charging, say with an LCD display and remote on the front of a filthy-cheap tower box? (Not to mention a video card with an S-video jack so you can do your selecting through the TV...)
/Brian
So basically HP is coming out with a computer, at twice the price and no monitor?
It's always too little too late.
Don't get me wrong - I would love to have one of these, it JUST ISN"T SOMETHING I WOULD BUY. And that's bad for HP - they need people to BUY stuff to make money. The way our economy is right now, people are stopping spending money on luxury items, such as this (i.e. shit you don't need). I doubt anyone here will buy this, but I sure wish my friend would so I could borrow it some time.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
$999 for a PC that look like a VCR? I don't think so. You could probably build yourself a cheap PC with all the functions sans the look for less than 500. This will probably fail, way too expensive.
kawai
People are gonna be pissed when copy protection breaks these things.
So why put any storage in it at all? Why not just shove a network socket on the back, or make it 802.11x aware, and play MP3s off a server on your network?
That would be sweet.
Kind of pricy, considering it doesn't have any speakers with it. For $1000, you could build a computer with much more than 40 GP of space and a nice sound card, and get things like gaming, internet, and office functionality out of it too.
isn't this [/.] the same article ??
Hrm.. I'm trying to figure something out here. Obviously the DMCA peoples and RIAA will be all over this one eventually. The question of the day for me is, how would you build in an effective digital rights management system without causing alot of problems?
I certainly have no idea how to look at 2 mp3s, and say, 'Uh, this person owns this cd', or 'Uh, it was downloaded from napster! Evil copyright infringment person!!!!"
I'm wondering if it is set up to only store mp3's that are ripped IN that unit, with no other method of transport. But that doesn't stop someone from copying someone elses CD, then ripping it. Or borrowing the CD for a day, and ripping it that way. I hate to rant on and on about the DMCA, but even though they won congress over, they are still fighting an uphill battle.
Can all fish swim?
Does anybody know the answer to the above?
(Shameless, I know!)
$999? Doesn't this seem a bit steep? That hard drive can't be worth much more than $100 at bulk pricing and the CDRW is probably worth about the same, if that.
I'd just recommend to anyone thinking of buying this thing to get a low powered home computer, and an external DA.
But then again, I'm a nerd.
It's that a little high on the price? A Rio Reciever is only $150, and the audiotron is only $300... Hell, a TiVO with a 60GB hard drive is only $400 (list)...
How do they justify a grand?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
As for having "all of my music in one box" - sure, if its portable. Why would I transfer all of the CDs in my jukebox over to another box, at lower fidelity? By virtue of having all of my CDs in my jukebox, all of my music is already in one box. The fact that the unit accesses the data on CDs instead of off of a hard drive is inconsequential.
The only value add I can see is tha TV interface. Not worth a grand.
This is as pathetic as the Audrey rollout by 3Com months ago. I makes me wince to watch the once venerable tech giants roll out ridiculous toys to the collective shrug of the consumer public.
HP in particular is just becoming sad. They've devolved from a tech powerhouse to a manufacturing dinosaur trying to compete with $39 inkjet printers I can buy at the grocery store (who cares if they are junk??), Dell in the PC world, and IBM in enterprise computing. Maybe its good that both founders are gone now, so they don't have to see their once-great creation mate with Compaq.
For a moment I thought this was interesting: A 40 gram MP3 player. But then I realized someone had gotten their units mixed up again.
Seems to happen a lot in the US. *evil grin*
(G = Giga = 10^12, g = gram = 1/1000 of kilogram.)
I think I'd be more likely to buy an Entre' Hub from Kenwood. It's only got a 20GB drive (you just gotta bea able to hack those things!), but it'll link up to their 400+3 CD/DVD changers and will catalog and provide an interface for your real disks as well as the cool MP3 functions. List on the Entre' is $1800 or so, but street should be about $1000.
Combine it with the Kenwood Sovereign amplifier (a bit pricey at $3k list, $2k street) and you can distribute audio via telephone jacks throughout your home and play multiple MP3s simultaneously in different locations.
Me, I'm just drooling over the 400+3 disk progessive player...
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I saw this thing at LWCE too, and it looks like it will kick ass. However, talking with the guy I asked if it was a standard IDE HDD that could be upgraded. He said that to keep the RIAA sorts happy all the mp3s were stored encrypted and that it was some sort of proprietary interface to keep people from swapping out HDDs. He said that you could pay for them to put in a bigger HDD, but that they had to have something to keep the lawsuits away, and that they were pleased that this was all it took to get approval from the music industry.
That is a monstrosity, there is no one anything that ugly will ever have a place in my living room.
Aesthetics do matter!
I have a website. It's about Macs.
So it's a computer with a CDR and a 40 gig hard drive for $1000. Big fucking deal.
The tech specs are here (pdf)
.....
in case anyone's curious
They arent trying to sell this system to the average /.er. They are trying to sell this to the millionaire house wife that is tired of sorting through her 250 different Yanni CDs who doesnt know the difference between a sound card and a credit card.
They started the price extremely high for a purpose, the price will come down, but not before a bunch of the technology deficient purchase them.
cmon, losers, the rest of the world cant build a box for cheaper that does more ... only us techies can do that. :)
.. I imagine the price will drop.
:)
Anyhow, release prices rarely stay at that
This still doesn't address the fact that while we're willing to sacrifice sound quality on the road (ie, MP3s), but I don't see any reason to lossy-compress my 200 CDs into an inferior sounding library of music.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Anyone know what it runs?
Linux seems possible, although the CDR drivers are scsi (scsi-emulation is nesasery for IDE) only AFAIK.
you could actually buy a decent turntable. A Rega 3 with arm is $700, an MMF-7 is $900 with arm and cartridge.
Leaves you enough for about 200 LPs at todays prices...
vinyl1 (who else?)
I'm a little tired of CmdrTaco's shameless begging for every new piece of equipment.
This is from the pdf :
Write Speed Rips up to 4x (encoding MP3 compressed audio) CD-R media: up to 8x CD-RW media: up to 4x Disc finalization time: 2 minutes typical at 2X Audio Performance Encoding rate: 96 Kb/sec, 128 Kb/sec, 160 Kb/sec, 256 KB/sec Default encoding rate: 128 Kb/sec ***************** Operating temperature: 5 to 35 C (41 to 95 F) Operating humidity: 20% to 80% RH non-condensing
- First of all, the website advertises "CDRW write speed up to 8X " although the pdf clearly specifies 4x.
-The encoding rate is quite low... why didn't they include 320Kb? its a 40 gig hard drive!
-35 celsius maximum operating temperature??? ever heard of summer? It often goes over 35 where I live.
-And finally the price. Look at the components, lets give 50$ for the box and power supply, 100$ for the motherboard, 40 for the cpu, 100 for the HD, maybe 30$ for some kind of ram, 15 for some wires and 80 for the burner (8x4x32 probably, am I forgetting something? The total of that is 415... 999 anybody?
But the concept is good, just needs a little tweaking maybe.
Imperium et libertas
Autocracy and freedom
The main problem I have with these built in recorders is cataloging the music. I find MP3's/OGG to be an excellent compact storage of music. I have a lot of MP3s. Actually, I have more MP3's than I can listen to and keep track of without a tool. For most POP music, the file name is enough for keeping track of pertinent information. But when you get into classical music and some traditional celtic music, the file name isn't enough.
I'm assuming this hardware will allow me to specify a name for the piece. How about adding scans of the CD jewel case? How about information found in the jacket covers? I would never buy this or other such CD-RW because of that. I'm too poor to buy all the CDs I'd want. So, when I rip music, I try to imitate the orginal CD look as much as possible. Maybe for those people who just want to build a quick and dirty collection, this hardware would be good.
Oh man, I'm laughing out loud. I just had a GREAT idea.
What HP needs to do to make this a must-have home appliance is to embed a Gnutella client in the box. That would be hilarious!
Having said that, imagine ripping all your CDs onto this thing and having them go with you wherever you go.
I wonder if the RIAA know about this ? You can bet they will get their panties in a bunch about it :-(
If I can install my own 80G drive, I can put all my CDs into it. That would rock.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Microsoft is on top of the game. They'll have an Xbox variant soon that will do all this and then some for lots less. Why does everyone ignore the potential of this market? I'd *love* to have a single box that I could plug the phone, satellite (from any provider, or cable if I prefer), run MP3s, play games, surf the web, and time shift TV content. I'm sure that there is more that I am forgetting, but processing is cheap.
Sure, there are small projects to bring Linux into this arena but MS is close to making them all dead in the water. Just like IE, I'll be quick to support it since there are no other solutions.
If only someone in the industry would pull their head out of their ass. Maybe when all the million distros die off... There's just too much duplication of work right now and not enough in the way of making actual inroads.
Sigh...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
OH LOOK IT'S A CRAP PC INNA SILVER BOX THAT COSTS A GRAND.
*bargepole*
Make a version of that with a network port on the back instead of the hard disk, and halve the price, and then we'll talk. Not before.
Stuii!
Does anyone know if this has any built in copy protection?
I for one am saving all of my old stereo equipment, computers, hard drives, etc., because someday I just know that they're going to sneak copy-protection into the hardware, and we won't find out that it's there for a few years... and then, we would have thrown away all our old hardware and we'll be stuck.
This thing sounds neat, but I wouldn't want to buy it only to find that I couldn't use it for certain songs because the unit thinks that I'm violating a copyright - when, in fact, I'm actually doing things that are allowed under fair use....
I wonder if they use that internet connection to tell the record companies which songs I have stored, or which songs I've burned onto CD, or how many times I've done it, etc.
I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, but I'm sure they're going to stick it to us sooner or later.
Or I could buy a 200 CD jukebox for even less
So, why is this cool?
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
internal storage
[definition] 40 GB IDE Ultra DMA drive
CDRW write speed
up to 8X
minimum system requirements
connection to stereo system with a receiver/amplifier via standard audio jacks, TV with composite video or S-video input|connection to internet service, router and appropriate cables for broadband connection
internet connectivity
dial-up: 56K V.90 modem
processor
Intel Pentium® II 566MHz Celeron
music library
create up to 99 play lists
internet radio
listen to worldwide internet radio stations
music storage
stores 750 CDs, 9000 tracks, 635 hours of music
--
Seems pretty cool, but at almost $1k, that seems pretty pricey for consumer electronics. And, I don't quite like how it's limited to 99 playlists. Also, a basic network interface which would grab a DHCP address (or automatically use something like 10.0.0.1) seems like it would be MUCH more useful than a modem.
Hacking time, anyone?
40G is not enough. something with at least 100 or 200 GB is more appropriate... maybe mirrored as well to ensure data safety. I'd hate to lose my 90GB of music due to a cheap ass IDE drive failing on me.
:)
I know that sounds a bit silly but for $999 bucks I expect more from them
EOM
OK it looks quite nice. But a motherboard, processor, heatsink, 128Mb memory, video card, CDRW, 40gb HD, sound card and case will set you back about £400 (US$575). Plus, you get the fun of coding the front end yourself. You could even go to Bull Electrical and pick up some IR gear and attach it to the serial port for about ten quid too, and hey presto, IR control. The HP's case is lovely, but if it's the actual functionality you're after, you can build it cheaper yourself.
:)
$1000 dollars seems a lot for something which can be achieved with any bog standard PC. You could even spray paint a GCT-Allwell set top box silver and then replace the DiskOnChip with a cable and 40Gb IDE hard drive and then install Linux or Win98Lite. Plus you get 10/100 NIC and TV-out.
Alternatively, how about an Acer NT-150 STB, you can normally get these off of ebay etc. for about £20 (US$35)
Or, you could buy a really nice cd player...
I think this will appeal to older folks and the generally non-technical out there with lots of cash. I can think of plenty of people who will buy something like this because they simply DO NOT KNOW that you can hook a COMPUTER to you STEREO. Whether it succeeds or not depends on the "friendliness" of the interface and if HP can get it demo'd at stores.
Couldn't I just get a kick-arse sound card with digital out, X feet of optical cable, and hook that into my receiver, running the mp3s straight from my computer, all for far less than half the cost?
Do not read this sig.
... the Winamp3 developer alpha. Pretty nifty so far. Check it out. Much better than day-old news.
Because it's nowhere near as geeky.
Besides, what do you do when the Ms. wants to hear some Imbruglia, and you want to read Slashdot, look at pr0n, or play Doom 3?
Wow, for only 1,000 bucks I can get something that plays mp3s and also burns cds? OR, i could just use the pc I built for 300 bucks and hook up a cheap sound card to be patched through a reciever. There has to be at least an 800 dollar markup on this and should definately be given the award for Sucker-Christmas-Gift for this coming holliday season.
iPod ($400) + 40 gig drive ($100) + CDRW ($100) - Firewire ($100) - Portability ("Priceless").
I don't know about you, but I'm looking at a big, ugly iPod that costs about $100 more. Maybe this is useful if you can't live with less than your 1000 favorite songs instantly available and don't want to buy two iPods (which would still be cheaper and smaller).
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
Kenwood released a similar device not too long ago: the Entre entertainment hub. Yeah, it's about twice as expensive, but it's targetted at audiophiles and offers additional features to boot: a graphical user interface that displays on your television, indexing and control of Kenwood's 400-disc DVD/CD player, Internet radio, and homePNA support so you can send audio anywhere else in your house.
but still too expensive. Kenwood has a product called the Entre Entertainment Hub that truly integrates with a stereo system, controls a DVD changer, and even offers remote listening if you buy the extra Axcess Remote Portal gadget. Unfortunately, the Entre all by itself is $1800 and the other bits that hook up to it are similarly expensive.
Besides, running things over Ethernet means I can run protocol analyzers and proxies and such to help hack a device. :-)
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Does anyone know which utility (mp3 app) for the pc or MAC can download random tracks from a 300 cd changer?
Get one of these FM modulators, tack it onto a computer that is(presumably) networked to your MP3 jukebox, figger out the tuning, and go from there.
It probably won't be the highest quality sound, but for $970, I think I can adapt.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Everyone knows that the first CD players and DVD players cost nearly $1000 or more when they first came out. They come down when they become more popular, the manufacturing process becomes more standardized, and the demand is high enough to justify it.
As for your $300 CD jukebox, check out the specs on this toy -- internet connectivity, TV display, HomePNA broadcasting, and of course, a larger hard drive. Feature-wise, there's no comparison.
Basically this is the box that you feed your CDs into, and it handles all the rest. Later you can grab stuff off via the net, MP3 CD, USB to your player, or Audio CD, (or just play it) and it's just all there.
In fact, the only thing that I really wish were there that I didn't see would be the ability to use it as a net-radio broadcaster with a web interface, so you could listen to your home collection from work or anywhere. Of course, mounting the share across the net would do almost the same thing, but only for one user.
Sure $999 is alot, but it's the first real consumer (read not-geek-targeted) device to tackle all these things. There's probably a market at this price, and once that market's saturated, I'll be there to pick one up for $500.
Kevin Fox
The "10/100 baseT card" is mentioned right there under "what's in the box", BEFORE the modem. The solution to your problem is *reading*.
...is your MP3-recording PC really that much more attractive as a living room appliance?
The thing that everyone is missing is that the RIAA is implementing copy protection for CDs. From what I've seen so far YOU CANT USE A COMPUTER TO RIP OR PLAY CD's WITH THIS PROTECTION. they soud like crap. So to everyone complaining about how they can get a PC cheeper, get your head out of your arse! Yes it looks like an expensive PC. However If I cant play/rip a cd to a pc (thank you RIAA), the pc is a boat anchor when it comes to MP3. I hope that HP would have enough smarts to implement a system that gets around the RIAA natzis.
The HP model is nice, but needs some features, such as wireless networking, which means it could ditch the storage and use Samba like the AudioTron does. Check out this device coming out soon that is similar but has a "dockable" remote and wireless networking to your computer which also lets you listen to internet radio such as Live365. Add a CD-RW to the SimpleFi for burning/encoding CDs and you've got my dream device, although visualizations on the TV screen would be nice to have as well.
I'm pretty sure HP won't be selling these things in Germany and, oh, have they not forgotten about copy protected CDs as well? Or have they implemented CloneCD in the OS with auto protection scheme detection?
humps
Here's how it works:
;)
;) ;)" types (as are a large portion of all human beings) and have probably had poor experiences with low-end HP products. Just remember that you get what you pay for; from what I hear that statement is especially applicable to HP. ;)
My "gaming and art" machine is connected to my stereo via a wireless connection and my Linux machine has Shoutcast installed. (The architecture of my LAN: a 16 port switch connected to an 802.11b access point; four computers (including the Linux computer) on the switch and two on the WLAN.)
When I desire to listen to MP3s from my machine (the laptop in the other room) as opposed to those on the gaming machine, I connect to the Shoutcast daemon on the Linux machine that the gaming machine is a client of.
Music begins streaming, on the stereo's speakers (Klipsch RP-7s) less than twenty seconds later. It's certainly not the best solution, but few can argue the point that it is interesting...
As for the HP product, I'd love one of these. Contrary to what the average Slashdotter may say, HP's products *do* hold up very well. I also don't know how many brand names support twelve year old printers and four year old digital cameras with new drivers.
One more thing: I am aware that some Slashdotters are the "efficient spender
Do you like German cars?
"Slashdot posters" aren't a big enough market to pursue. "High-end stereo buyers", on the other hand, are.
The cake is a pie
I kinda doubt this box has the power to handle that sort of graphics, though.
My spoon is too big!
While I have _zero_ programming skills, and can barely get around in linux, I do use the smoothwall distro for firewalling.
I've heard everyone talk about how you can build one of these on your own, but I know I wouldn't have the patience to get it figured out. It'd be great to see a special distro that you just install on a machine with the right hardware (soundblaster, tv-out, ir, big drive), and just have it work. That'd be worth paying for.
Wake up.
Dam this looks like a fun toy. But just one problem, I don't know If I like that maney songs
>:)=
WHY MUST WE BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME STORIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN?!
1 POST IS FINE, 2 IS LAME!!
IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE 1ST POST, THAN WAIT FOR SOMETHING BETTER, BE A LITTLE DESCRIMINATING...
YOUARETHEWEAKESTLINK...GOOD-BYE!
Are we supposed to say "Nice hardware" or something...?
Just 'cuz u gots the bill$ to waste dont make ya 31337.
I already have one of these... IT'S CALLED A COMPUTER, and it does so much more than play mp3s and make CD's.
Hello!!!!
This must be really heavy equipment if it exerts a force causing a 40g acceleration!
<EMILY-LATELLA>
Ohh... you meant 40GB! That's very different! Never mind.
</EMILY-LATELLA>
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
You see, all of that hardware cost less than the HP box. :)
Do you like German cars?
I know I'm fighting the very premise of creating a product line that so many manufacturers follow. Before I go plunk down $1000 on a device like this, I want it to do this first:
Give me a device like that and I'll stop using my computer for the same thing.
-silversurfEven more subtle would be to use IIS as the embedded webserver. Then HP could blame M$ for all of the hacking and piracy, while selling thousands upon thousands of these little boxes!
1. Musicianship. They need to be able to play their instruments above the average level. Uncheck.
2. Material. They've got to have some music in their rep that's of more than passing interest. Uncheck.
3. Style. They have to have a look, attitude, or schtick that is in some way striking or notable. Check. They've got the attitude that they're the Only Band That Matters.
Because they don't have 1 or 2, and all they've got for 3 is arrogance, well you can construct the rest of the syllogism from there.
I would only say something this insulting to someone who put Troll in his name.
...in several ways.
/. preferences, and not join any sort of membership model.
/. tip jar of its time.
One, in case the marketing folks at H/P haven't noticed, three days ago consumer confidence was just reported to be at it's lowest point in a decade. A very bad time to push a $999 device that doesn't really add all that much value. If I had a thousand dollars, which I don't, there are about thirty devices in line before this one. Hell, a "beater" used car for the winter should be in line before this thing.
Two, with his dep't tag and repeated pushing of exactly this sort of consumer toy, it suggests that Taco is lusting after these $999 devices, which is what he shouldn't be admitting during a time when he is trying to leverage the tech news weblog model into more intrusive revenue generation. It makes me want to turn off the ads in my
I have given a lot to sites through the Amazon and Paypal tip jars. I support sites that really need the money and are using it for bandwidth and hardware, not expensive toys. Back in the day, I even sent Taco a graduation gift, which represented the
At this point, other webmasters are quitting the business or turning their sites into non-profit ventures that don't support even their own salary. I don't deny anyone the right to make money, but I do have to decide what to do with my own limited resources.
is "40g"? did we have 40"m" before today? Its GB, goddammit
When it comes to a component that's going to be a part of a high-quality stereo system, why bother with MP3 compression at all? MP3's are great for the typical computer speakers, but get into higher-end sound equipment and you can really notice the compression artifacts. Yes, I realize that you can store considerably more music using MP3 compression, but if you're going to spend $999 on something, why not build a dedicated system with twin 80GB hard drives and store the CD tracks directly? You still have the room to store over 230 CDs worth of audio (and that's assuming each CD was filled to capacity, which often doesn't happen with music CDs), and you don't suffer the quality degradation from compression. Add the option to play files over a network link (either compressed or uncompressed), and THEN you have something worth that grand. IMHO, of course.
It does come with a 10/100 ethernet port. But it looks like it is only used with it's web browser for broadband access thru your supplied router. They are tight lipped about what format you can post your music online. We need a good review of this in action on getting and putting MP3's to and from this device. We also need a positive answer. Will it burn MP3's on a CDR as MP3's and not a music CD? In other words.. Can it export the MP3's?
The truth shall set you free!
Apple releases a portable and sleek MP3 player for (an admittedly ovepriced) 400 bucks and it is "lame," whist HP releases a shitty computer in a smaller box and Taco is all "I totally need a review model."
Taco, you are a fuck. You've let your little media conglomerate go to your head. Be a journalist or an evangelist, but don't be both... it doesn't become you.
"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."
-E. W. Dijkstra
Anyone have a clue if the Zapstation from Zapmedia will ever make it to market. I actually slapped my credit card down on one about this time last year. They were actually hopeful of getting them shipped by LAST Christmas. It's over a year later and they still can't seem to get it together.
About 9 months ago I was on a focus group to review these things. It was supposed to be four sessions in four months or something, and then we got the device, but I was "dismissed" after the first session and told not to come back. I think I pissed them off by telling them that if this device wasn't open, it would be hacked.
They were very interested in how we would respond to advertising that was downloaded to it and played for us based on our music choices. The group said downloading concert info about the bands we liked was fine, most of the people didn't really mind more annoying ads, but I said that if there wasn't a way to opt out of the ads I would firewall its outgoing network connection.
They asked if it would be ok if the box reported back certain user preferences, and I said that would be fine if they were totally upfront about what information was sent. I told them that lying would just get them in trouble, because we would see every packet this thing sent over the wire, and would raise a stink about any unexplained ones.
I think the final insult is when they asked the price we would pay. Most of the other people said $1000 or $1200, but I said that I would pay $300, because had built similar devices for $300. That was a bit unfair, because $300 doesn't include the surplus and out of date computer pieces used from work, and their box was certainly nicer than what I had put together. At the time their box had a 20GB drive, and a CD burner, so it would have been more fair of me (on then prices) to have said $450-500.
The ironic thing is, that I have never needed my own home mp3 box (the ones I built were for friends), but just yesterday I started getting pieces together for one. I think it'll cost me $80-120. Of course I am using a surplus K6-2 (clocked down to 200Mhz, no fan!) scrounged from work. The $80-120 is for a 40-60GB 5400 hard disk. My box won't have CD-RW, modem, HomePNA, etc., but I don't want those things, why should I pay for them?
I think their main problem was they had tried to pack the room with people who were very into music, yet somewhat tech savy. Unfortunately I am very tech savy, and only somewhat into music, so instead of spending my time dreaming about the virtues of a 20GB CD changer (besides I already had the equivilant in my notebook) I spent my time dreaming about all of the evil things they would be doing with this box.
What I really want is something that is a larger equivalent of my Archos device. I want it to appear on the network as a PC with a large shared hard drive.
I would want a minimum of 100Gb of storage.
Alternatively a completely diskless pod with about 16Mb ram, an 802.11b network access point, sound output and some sorta TV interface would serve the same purpose. It could pull the toones off my PC server. With a larger buffer (128Mb or more) it could do video as well.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
In the past (and future) couple weeks there have been three very similar products, but only slightly different functions. Replay, Xbox and now this. What sucks is they're pretty damn expensive and they are limited to certain tasks. As far as I can tell though, they all require the same things. Processing power, a big hard drive and some proprietary parts to make things easier. But they're mostly a PC. Really, how long are we going to do this before peole realize the PC is still a better way to go. Instead of a $500 Desktop, how long is it really before we have $1500 networked server that can do all of these functions. Put a "cd reading unit" where you want you're stereo and some basic controls, but the unit in your basement throws it on a hard drive. The kids need to do their homework while you pay your bills? Plug in a new monitor. Want to record TV or play games, just purchase certain propreitary technology, but have it plug into the standard processing and HD. Yes, obviously there isn't quite enough power today to do all of these functions and wiring would be trick, but centralizing them seems the way to go and adding $2000 to a mortgage won't hurt too much. Adding net access to your workshop, kitchen, and the kids rooms for the cost of a few monitors? Priceless--err cheap ;-)
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
On a custom motherboard. Support for optical and digital audio, SVideo, etc. (Which is pretty much the only cool thing about it). Everything is done using Real Audio/Video technology. The thing that sucks about it is that all searching/input can only be done via the remote. Makes looking for "Killing is my business and business is good" a royal pain. I have one and overall, I give it a "C-". If it was $200 I might pick one up.....
uhmmm, yeah right. Problem is, this is all stuff that has been out for a while, or, better yet, BEEN POSTED ON /. BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cmdr. taco sux rox!!!
YOUARETHEWEAKESTLINK...GOOD-BYE!
I recently purchased a Rio SP250 player from SonicBlue. It supports CDs and CDRs and CDRWs and WinAmp playlists. Now, for $170 for the player, plus $60 for 200 CDs, I'm at 120+ gig of storage for $230 bucks, plus it's portable...and I can always increase my collection. The Rio also supports WMA (eek) and has an FM tuner. With the line out, I can hook it up to any stereo system. SL
yes, the fact that I don't own a TV set *does* make me a better person.
Why?
Does it mean that you have more time to read and actually engage in some sort of mentally stimulating activity?
Or does this simply mean that you're a pretentious git going for whatever snooty "I'm better than you" points you can get?
It's an interpretation thing, I suppose.
--saint
Taco is a bitch to corporate sponsorship. He'll bend over for the latest in technology.
the corporate electronics world for not
recognizing an overpriced obsolete product when
it hits the shelves.
I hope it looks sweet like an iMac
or something... cause then impulse buying really kicks in!
-J
I mean, waving such a big red flag in front of the RIAA is bound to generate interesting times.
Now, let's see what happens when a progressive technological company takes a collision course with an obsolete industry based on artificial information scarcity...
and when all cd's are copy protected this does what for us for that 900 bucks? RIAA will obsolete every pc based cdrom drive before they are done..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
A $1k device that can store 200+ hours of degraded music!
On the other hand, one could buy a couple of Sony 400 CD changers for $400 each. Since we're talking about a component for your home sound system the better sound is worth the extra space.
MP3 is small (=portable) so why not use it where it works best? You planned on leaving the CD's at home anyway, right?
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
$ man -k wife
wife: nothing appropriate
How about this for an alternative:
AMD Duron 750 with 256MB RAM: $390
SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum: $165
40 GB drive: $90
wireless keyboard and mouse: $45 on uBid
DVD drive: $40
wireless network adapter: $115 (SMC SMC2602W)
cheap video card (you just need to run 640x480) with tv-out: $35 on eBay
Your Favourite OS: $free
Total: $879.
And that's with no shopping around, with almost all parts new, and some pretty bloody nice ones at that (sb audigy, wireless lan, for example). With THIS, you can play mp3 files (without the digital rights protection), AND
- play video games on your big-screen tv
- surf the web (if you need to)
- play dvds on your tv
- play all those movies you don't download from morpheus because that would be illegal
- feel very cool because you built your own wireless media server
- control the box on your tv using the wireless keyboard and mouse or VNC/telnet/ftp/whatever in from another computer
- umm, gee, hmm, what else can you do with a computer? that's about all I can think of...
- oh yeah, save $120 off the cost of the HP unit.
www.clarke.ca
I've been thinking about starting my own company to get the ball rolling on LARGE storage MP3 devices. While I'm psyched someone FINALLY decided to do it, a fixed unit with a cd-rw or cd-r drive is the wrong application.
What we need:
Portable 50gb unit weighing under 2.5lbs with pc connection (via firewire, usb2.0, usb1.0, whatever) with stereo outs about the size of early larger sony cd-players (I'm thinking of the old sony car discman here). LCD management screen and approriate controls, all for $300 or less.
Make this product, and I guarantee you will have the fastest adoption curve in the history of media.
I can't think of anything more attractive than the idea of a device I can store ALL my cds on to take on the road. Imagine rolling out for a weekend to a friend's, and knowing you have your ENTIRE music collection to drive with, play there, WHATEVER!
God, I can't wait till someone develops a cheap solid state drive... maybe flash memory will drop low enough to make it feasible soon.
-rat
The PDF says "*Intended only for use with your original music and other lawful applications."
This opens the way to "stealth downgrades"--you might buy a model that lacks DRM initially, then suddenly find out that a firmware upgrade was required--to access your ISP, perhaps--and that the upgrade installed restrictive DRM. And you'd have no recourse, because they'd point to that sentence and say "we never said it would store music that it doesn't think you own..."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
listen
if you say "A 40g" i think "wow what a light-weight device"
I click on the link and see this husge thing
you mean 40G!
I can't even remember what it was I came here to get away from - Bob Dylan
My living room has neither a phone line nor an ethernet jack. My home network is 802.11 based.
Are there any stereo component MP3 players that support 802.11 yet?
And yet, both are still an easy match for the Empeg with it's unparalleled hackability and features.
Back when the previous article was posted, the DEC wasn't for sale yet, and the price hadn't been announced. So there is some news in this article.
Get an iMac with a CDRW. Then the box will at least look good (if old), and do more than this piece of trash.
What does it mean to wake out of a dream
and be wearing someone else's shorts?
BNL, Born on a Pirate Ship (1998)
And since I already have a computer, I should buy this because.....?
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
...with lossless compression. Something like FLAC or Shorten will permit something in the range of 3x better compression with no loss whatsoever.
Pity that none of the currently available consumer devices support anything like that (or even Vorbis, which as lossy compression goes is pretty damn sweet).
Jeez that's crazy to someone in Taiwan right now. /. editors focus a bit too much on Japan and don't really understand the economics of the place their toys come from. Nichia is cool, but the dude is at Santa Barabara now. Drop the Japan consumer fetish thing because it's so not happening. Really. Prices have to come down. Cheerleading about this is rude.
Doesn't anybody read Anandtech or Tom's hardware? The guts of the Xbox were done by Nvidia and Nvidia and Via are both pointed at a low price point --damn the US or Europe. They want PCs in growth markets and that's only going to happen outside the US and at much lower price points than what people, apparently the Taco among them, in rich countries can afford to say --oh gee, what a bargain at $999! How eighties.
It has jack shit to do with people in LA, SF, NewYork Chigago or Northern Europe getting a good bargain or whatever lateral debate you care to dwell on that has to do with me me me the American consumer. Low hardware prices are about growth markets because a growing market is paradise for the companies on top of it. Places like China, India and South America can't take the current entry points for PCs and related digital entertainment devices, yet their populations are vast and the chances of coming up with a few hundred bucks for the works are considerable if they can get a nice cheap box that really has everything.
So, let's define everything from the rich comsumer's perspective too. A modular solution could work for both markets if it had the following.
1. Gigabit ethernet so they're stackable to increase sales in rich countries while dropping unit prices to the floor to make them accessible in growth markets.
2. In-house distros to make Stacking them easy on the software side and useful for 3D gaming. Some say it's all in the video card, but is that really the full story? These beasts would already be using the latest from NVidia. Complex textures and animations can always use more clock cycles.
3. And the rest of that shit they ought to have, multi-Gig CPUs in boxes a quarter that price, RAM is so damn cheap here. I just bought a 256Meg SDRAM for nine bucks! The 512 sticks are forty bucks. Where the hell is Taco seeing this as a deal? A 20GigHD is a fucking hustle if anything.
Obviously the
Having enjoyed a nice rant, I must confess I never played with one. Perhaps they are cool. And some cool people get off on burning money so whatever. But I suspect hardware is selling like shit because the markets aren't impressed with what gets touted as a deal these days. Where's the 160Gig HDs?
I'm saying sell 8-Way rack mounts at Costco for like $2999. All it would take is an in-house distro with Mosix doing something, anything with all the CPUs at the same time so you could use it in the marketing. Somebody would have to pay to get it done right so it would be workable for mass consumption. I know, I know, we're not there yet. But damn, it's got to be happenin' soon. I always assumed VALinux was going to do something like this, but it never happened. Seems easy though, stick one of these worthless 20Gig IDEs in each of those cases and bang! You advertise it as $160Gig system. Let's say you make the hard drives on like four nodes into jukeboxes and the rest is just for fun and games and let's not forget word processing!
Okay, in that case, I'm all for spending the cash. It's where the market should go. Overpriced special purposed toys are just a diversion from the larger entertaiment potentials that will only come with excessive power lying around waiting to be put to use. At the same time, it will provide a solution to the poorer countries. Everybody wins except all the cultures that get squashed out by western influences, but those make great documentaries afterwards.
r0x0r!
Anyone out there have one of the SlimDevices?
There was a buzz when it was mentioned earlier. But I haven't heard from anyone that bought one since.
I rather like the idea of streaming from a computer over ethernet better than the HP solution of having the HD fixed in the device.
For one thing, I have much more storage on the computer. Most of my interacting with the MP3 files will be done on the computer anyway, and I already have a CD-R on it. I would suspect that I have greater control over playlists and the like from a computer than the HP device.
Then there is the issue of DRM which I have more control over on my computer. As this is a consumer device, I presume they expect that most people will rip their files in the device's CD-RW drive (although it includes a NIC for HomePNA, most consumers are the 12:00-blinking-set and may not even bother with that) at which time the file can be marked.
In fact, the only thing the HP device seems to do that one of the other products won't is act kinda like a WebTV for internet music (although the only connection is through a v.90 modem. *ICK!*).
That said, can I get a bit more input on the RioReceiver, the Auditron, and especially the SlimDevices from people that have them?
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
Let's take a look at what the DE100 really lets you do:
So what is all the fuss about? This is a walled garden for digital music. There are a couple of nifty features, but you can't get at the data to do anything new with the device; it is a completely closed system.
My PC may be ugly as a stereo component, but at least it is open.
I bet it doesn't support Ogg Vorbis (unless Bruce Perens something to do with this...) which basically means that this is another useles product for me.
Why are companies building and releasing products like this any way? If all of us are letting the recording industry copy protect a CD so that even if you own it you can copy from it, then there is no point in ever making or buying a MP3 player/recorder.
Is it just me or does it seem that the CD copy protection scam is going ignored while every one else is blinded by this company or that company putting out the "Latest, Greatest" thing to handle all your MP3 needs?
This seems like a good way to get around the DMCA because its a licensed company, and not a "general hardware element of a computer system like CD-Roms". But it still will not matter because the medium being used for CDs won't allow copying of any kind with any kind of hardware.
Once upon a time there was a machine called the AudioRequest ARQ1 that did everything but the burning and had support for visualizations. I'm certain you could have hacked it to add a CD-R drive, too. All for under $800. ThinkGeek once carried them, but the company that made them decided to upgrade to the high-end business and now sells a rack-mount device for triple the price. So sad, because it was a much better device and could even run Linux.
See the official announcement here
http://www.request.com/CEOLetter.html
-harry
Any ideas what would be a good MP3 network player with an alarm clock feature? Any links or posts I would really appricate.
Then you'd still have an ugly-assed PC sitting next to your rack of other audio gear. It would suck. Trust me.
I just run an RC cable from my sound card's audio out port to my stereo's auxillary in.
Cost to me: $1.50 for cable.
And these guys want $1000?
I mean, I can see the argument that you can't listen to music while playing games this way. But hey..just buy an old 486 with a sound card for $50-$100 and put it in an out of the way place near your stereo?
HP, IMHO, is the M$ of hardware. Sure you can pay big $$$ for production grade servers, workstations, and network gear - but what about the crap they push to Joe Sixpack and his family?
Maybe they should have bought Packard Bell...oh wait, maybe they did? My point is, throughout the latter 90's, I had a $45/hr portal-to-portal ad-hoc contract with a company they (and PB, IBM, Compaq, etc.) subcontracted the warranty work to. Best case scenario: I'd go onsite to replace a motherboard, only to find it was the modem that fried causing *no power on* conditions. Lame techs, not asking what the weather was last time the box worked.
Worst case scenario: I'd go onsite to replace a HD (quantum==junk) only to find that the 2" fan in the low-profile Pavilion desktop had failed, causing the already-doomed junk drive to fry. Hmm, tech could have asked "Do you hear any noise besides the beeps? Feel any air coming out the back?"
Of course, these last two incidents indicate poor tech support along with "shit for parts". The majority of my service calls involved dead Quantum fireballs, etc, or toasted motherboards for no apparent reason. I was honest with the poor saps that bought the boxes for their family, either extending their credit for a family Xmas present, or using their tax refund, blah, blah.
Another factor is that now that they own Compaq (with a rep for high vs. low end stuff about equal to the above), then why should we expect any other result than what I've noted? They probably have warehouses full of crap CD-RWs and *shit* HDs, not to mention over-produced "tiny" motherboards, and this product is the result of re-structuring and inventory reduction. I *could* be wrong. Your mileage may vary.
Go ahead and buy one of these $1000 boxes ($999 is an insult to your intelligence) - They've already sold you the extended warranty, so to speak. BTW, the folks who purchased that for the Pavilions were treated like...(you get the pic - no socio-ethnic slurs here ;-).
db
Cig:
ôô
What is 40g? 40 grams? 40 gigibit?
Oh, you meant 40GB. OK. Standards, people. Standards.
Right now, my DSL "modem" and Firewall/WAP sit in my study with one of the computer, and we use the wireless for the laptops. (I live in an 700 sq. ft. apartment, so for a home, YMMV) The plan is to move the DSL/Firewall into the entertainment center, which happens to be in the middle of the apartment because of the layout.
Originally, I was going to use 802.11b to get connectivity to the HTPC, etc., but with the growing availability of ethernet support in devices, I concluded that I should have a non 802.11b connection in the entertainment center. Their already is a phone line run back there to support the Replay, so splitting it and running the DSL there is trivial, and I will eventually have 3 devices in the system that need connectivity.
The Gamecube is going to support an ethernet addon, some sort of MP3 player may make it into my system (sure the HTPC - home theater pc - could do it, but it creates a UI nightmare... although having a Pronto makes life easier), and the HTPC obviously needs connectivity. I concluded that the USB-802.11b connection will be adequate for the docking station that's for the study, as well as the second computer.
Yeah, my freaky apartment has a docking station for my work computer, my fiancee's old PC that she uses for her Windows apps, my HTPC for computer gaming on the television, my laptop out of the docking station, and the fiancee's iBook. I guess it is a problem that I love technology for technology's sake, oh well.
The problem with 802.11b is that unless you have an intelligence antennae system, reception blows. My laptop whines at places that the iBook is fine at. Apple's engineering is impressive.
802.11b is amazing though, and more stuff should support it. I would love to get some of the LCD-based computers if I could get a good 802.11b setup, so I could display rotating digital photographs throughout the apartment. Oh well, one day.
Alex
$999: 500MHz G3, 20GB disk, firewire, usb, cd-rw, built in 15" monitor, 128MB ram, 10/100 10bT, 56k. MacOS X with iTunes beats ugly HP box for user interface.
Start Running Better Polls
Personally, I don't think this product will last. Someone could just a buy a computer that does the same features for a lot less. $999 is a pretty steep price too. If company's want to make a lasting product that incorporates computer functions into a home theater entertainment center, they will have to offer something new and exclusive.
...if it retails for $500. At $1000, as I'm sure many people have pointed out before you can buy a PC with a much more than the 566MHz Celeron and 40GB hard drive. The PC will also do a heck of a lot more than just store 9000 tracks and burn CDs; plus you won't be required to see their ads and can use CompuServe, AOL, or free ISPs if you want to, unlike with this unit. Not that I would want to use those ISPs, but HP is cutting, what... 50% of US internet users out of their customer pool this way? Great economics.
Apple may get similarly criticised for cutting out non-Mac users (95%!) out of their iPod customer pool, and also for overpricing the portable 5Gig iPod ($399) But we're dealing with apples and oranges here: Apple's motivation is to add value to owning a Mac and be innovative at the same time, to differentiate themselves further in the market. With no uniqueness, this HP product will find itself lost in the consmer woods.
And Cmdr Taco, didn't you say "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." in your coverage of the iPod? But for this (unquestionably much "lamer") product you say "I totally need a review model! I saw this thing at the last LinuxWorld and it looked good..." Spltt! Ack!! Barf!!!
Put down the crack pipe.
In addition to mp3 jukebox and DVD my living room PC acts like a TiVo (thanks to ATI's All-In-Wonder) and an arcade game machine (thanks to MAME). Of course it still looks like a PC and I don't like having to control it with a wireless keyboard, but it definitely is more functional than any dedicated device.
What I really need is a slick black case, a programmable remote and a TV with VGA input.
A much cheaper alternative with more features and functionality is the new Sampo DV631CF DVD player. It has a built in Compact Flash reader intended for viewing pics from a digital camera. The CF reader is just a standard IDE device and is easily replaced with an IDE hard drive. With this setup you can play MP3, JPEG, and MPEG video files on your TV through the Sampo DVD player. Check it out at http://www.area450.com
Do they really plan on accelerating this system at 40g's?
That's a fine achievement, but a lot more than I think most portable ogg/MP3 players will be subjected to under normal conditions.
Hang on, perhaps it's a drive that only weighs 40 grams? Now that would be very useful, as weight is your enemy when designing portable equipment.
Oh, did you mean a 40 GigaByte drive? Surely not, since that would have been written "40GB".
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
This is more like what I wanted Apple to produce. All HP needs now is 802.11 for it!
did we become consumers, customers and users anyway? when did we stop being people?
Can anyone tell me how long it takes
to turn that box on? Any boot time?
Can you point me to a source for this?
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
We are geeksincarnate.. We build things, tinker with things, and bitch about everything. If we can hack it and make it better, wonderful, but remember the world was built for the generalist, and we are a minority in a largely unintelligent, untechnical world.
-M-
"Life is all about strategy, mathematics and psychological perceptiveness."
..just wondering
Even casual involvement excludes total freedom by it's inherent nature. John Valby
And I agree with many of the comments re:price. This thing should be sub-$500. In it's current form it's doomed, unless HP simply wants to sell a few dozen units to UberGeeks that simply have to have every new toy out there. Smells like Kerbango! all over again.....
Even casual involvement excludes total freedom by it's inherent nature. John Valby