GameCube Really And Truly For Sale

Several readers have submitted the news that the GameCube is now officially for sale. With the GameCube and Xbox newly on offer, and the still-amazing PlayStation2 still hanging on, and dirt-cheap, high-power PCs on every corner, it looks like the predicted deaths of both console and PC are still some ways off. On the whole, I'd rather have the Mandrake Gaming edition (mentioned previously) than a new console.

Comments

me too!

[Lord Omlette]

I enjoy playing Pikmin on Mandrake gaming edition! I especially enjoy playing networked Super Monkey Ball on Mandrake gaming edition vs. people in the same room as me.

Re:me too!

[Stone Rhino]

Dont forget about Halo,that looks totally amazing on Linux
Considering that Halo is on the X-box, and the x-box is basically a windows PC, complete with crashes, I think its pretty likely that someone will be able to run it under emulation on linux.

Re:me too!

[xbrownx]

i hate to have to clue you in but psst i think thats what his joke was about

its called SARCASM

Re:me too!

[Nameles]

Dance dance revolution all the way, baby yeah!


Erm, Konami makes DDR, I thought that was kind of obvious...

Re:me too!

[martyn s]

No, he was making fun of the poster's idea that Mandrake gaming edition is better than a new console.

Import

[tpicot]

I'm gonna have to import one from america to lil' ol New Zealand. Any good american retailers for exporting them?

Re:Import

[iapetus]

Can't swear about American companies (Tronix is my normal shop for US game purchases, though), but you can pick up a Japanese unit pre-modded to play US and Japanese games from Lik-Sang in Hong Kong for a very reasonable price. I've bought from them before, and although some of the cheaper products they sell can be a little shoddy (I wouldn't trust their step down converters as far as I could throw them after one caused my import PS2 to start smoking) they've tended to be prompt and very good for better quality kit.

My personal approach has been to pick up the JP/US Gamecube from Lik-Sang, and the US software from Tronix, who are extremely prompt with delivery (took two days from US to UK by FedEx...)

Xbox thoughts

[CodeMonky]

I got my hands on an xbox and halo and it is quite a nice system. The built in hd is great because you don't have to drop $$ on memory units, I did pick up the dolby digital adapter and halo and madden 2002 look and sound great (the crowd noise in madden is great).
Halo is a great game, although control IS definately a little harder without my aswd and mouse that I'm used to. Its a shame the network play isn't ready (for both xbox and halo/madden).

Re:Xbox thoughts

[guinsu]

I give it a month before someone figures out how its doing the LAN networking and gets an VPN/IP tunneling server set up so you can do real internet play with Halo. At least thats what I am really hoping for. 4 player halo rocks (and is suprisingly managable on a 24" vega), I can't wait to try 16 player.

Re:Xbox thoughts

[CodeMonky]

Thats what I meant.
I was reading an xbox forum where someone posted they had setup a vpn (from his gateway) with someone else and was playing halo with them.

Rock.

Re:Xbox thoughts

[Bob The Cowboy]

You think you didn't already drop $$ on memory?

Do you feel relieved when you buy PC's, and don't have to buy the OS?

Bill

Re:Xbox thoughts

[cybrthng]

What are you talking about?

Re:Xbox thoughts

[CodeMonky]

No, I don't think I already dropped the money for memory.

Take the PS2 for instance.
It retailed for $300 and that didn't include any method of storing your games. You had to buy a memory unit.
Xbox is $300 and comes with 50000+ units of storage.

Re:Xbox thoughts

[havblue]

Technically he didn't have to pay for the money. The bells and whistles for the XBox are being subsidized in the long term so it can be priced at the same level as a ps2. The XBox isn't MS's only product either. Admit it, $300 for a PIII, 64 MB DDR ram, an 8 Gig HD, a GeForce3, and a network card ain't that bad of a price.

Re:Xbox thoughts

[red_dragon]

I give it a month before someone figures out how its doing the LAN networking and gets an VPN/IP tunneling server set up so you can do real internet play with Halo

How hard would it be to get OpenBSD to do bridging over an IPSec tunnel? *hint, hint*

Re:Xbox thoughts

[damiam]

A GeForce3 alone costs $300, although I'm aware you can get them cheaper. Somehow I doubt you can get them that cheap though.

Re:Xbox thoughts

[Stone Rhino]

A GeForce3 alone costs $300
Actuallly, a quick glance at pricewatch (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/4129-1.htm) shows that you can infact get a geforce3 Ti 500 shipped to your door for $142,much less than the price you stated. In fact, if you were building your own machine, you could probably find a mobo ($42), 700-mhz processor (PIII $84),dvd drive ($30), 64 mb ram (PC133-$12), case ($20) and 10gb hard drive ($52, total $482+labor) for about the price of the x-box, if it wasn't subsidized by Microsoft($525, read in paper nytimes).

I dunno about that.

[trilucid]

"GameCube and Xbox newly on offer, and the still-amazing PlayStation2 still hanging on, and dirt-cheap, high-power PCs on every corner, it looks like the predicted deaths of both console and PC are still some ways off."

Actually, in my mind at least, that's actually an indication of the problem(s) to come for hardware companies. The fact that high-powered systems are everywhere you look means the market will become saturated with "more of the same" at some point.

Already, PC hardware manufacturers are facing vanishingly small profit margins (except for Apple, which always makes it a point to sell their stuff at a price that actually makes some money). Yeah, I know all the stuff about various tech leaders making sweeping statements about "never needing more than 640K of memory" and such, but we really are headed for a "meaningful speed" cap on this.

The gaming market will probably be the last of the hardware sectors to really feel the crunch in this respect, because new games always drive hardware to the limits (unlike business apps, which run fine on my old P2-266). One could say that companies like Microsoft drive hardware with new (arguably bloated) OSes that require bigger & badder computers to run well, but even that has to stop at some point.

Basically, there will be a point soon where even gaming consoles will all be "fast enough", which will mean bad news for hardware manufacturers until the "Next Big Thing" emerges to max out even cutting-edge stuff. Will it be "true virtual reality"? Who knows? I for one will be interested to see...

Re:I dunno about that.

[dimator]

Basically, there will be a point soon where even gaming consoles will all be "fast enough"

...except that it has never been about hardware performance. If it was strictly about polygons and mip-mapping, then the PS1 would not have been competition for the N64, because PS1 games all looked like shit. It's about fun games, and blockbuster titles like MGS1, Gran Turismo, Zelda, Mario, etc., make or break a system, which is why console makers love to see "exclusively for XXX" so they can have an advantage over console YYY.

Re:I dunno about that.

[wadetemp]

Basically, there will be a point soon where even gaming consoles will all be "fast enough", which will mean bad news for hardware manufacturers until the "Next Big Thing" emerges to max out even cutting-edge stuff.

Nah, I don't think so. When you drop $1500 on a new PC, a lear later you're usually thinking, "Yeah, this is fast enough," and you don't upgrade. Consoles, at ~$300, are not as much of a problem. Besides, at that price you can buy 3 consoles before buying one new "cheap" PC, or 5 consoles for the price of a "average" PC. That's alot of upgrading.

I don't think that the "Next Big Thing" you mention will really change any of that. If a company figures out a way to make a cheap VR headset or something that could be sold at console prices, the same accessory will come out for the PC in successive months.

But, truthfully, consoles ALWAYS have a "next big thing" type of advantage over PCs that no PC can duplicate at this point. Group entertainment (read: party) games just don't go over well on a 17" monitor (or a 22".) You need a couch, a big TV, etc. And honestly, everything besides RPG and strategy on a PC is boring to me because of the lack of a social aspect. I think games are just more fun to play when people can watch what you're doing without getting a neck cramp or having to pull chairs over to sit next to you so they can see what's going on.

Re:I dunno about that.

[90XDoubleSide]

"Fast enough" can be an issue for someone running a word processor and internet programs, but in graphics, it is very easy to require exponentially more processing power by increasing the level of detail, and lets face it, games have a long way to go in the level of detail area. For an example of how much power you need to do detailed 3D, look at Pixar's rendering farm. They have combined processing power of 1.5THz, 8TB of RAM, and 27TB of disk space, and it still takes them hours to render one frame.

Re:I dunno about that.

[irongull]

Yeah, I know all the stuff about various tech leaders making sweeping statements about "never needing more than 640K of memory" and such, but we really are headed for a "meaningful speed" cap on this.

Come on. You specifically acknowledge the lack of foresight of previous generations, yet deliberately make that same mistake? Give me a break.

It will NEVER be enough.

Say it with me. It will NEVER be enough. And the PCs/consoles currently around don't even come close. Terrain is rendered with huge triangles, and fog is still used as an excuse for not drawing a true horizon. Character models don't look convincingly like real people and they 'express' themselves with precomputed voice and animation. Recent attempts at AI (B&W, for instance) are sadly lacking.

When I can't tell the difference between looking at my monitor and looking out my window, maybe that will be enough. When my newest console can dynamically model a stadium full of people that look and sound like the real thing, maybe that will be enough. And when all of the people in that stadium can pass a Turing test, maybe, just maybe, that will be enough.

Nah, who am I kidding?

It will NEVER be enough.

Repeat until enlightened.

Re:I dunno about that.

[trilucid]

First off, from a technical standpoint, I actually feel the same way (it will never be enough). Until game environments (or just plain sims) are realistic enough that I can't tell I'm in a fantasy world, I won't be satisfied with the technical side of things.

That said, I don't think the majority of the folks out there feel that way. There's a lot to be said for the strategy aspect of games, which has been sorely lacking for some time now (IMHO, for most games). Most gamers truly care about the true quality of the games they buy, and look at "gorgeous graphics" as a secondary condition.

I could, of course, have this completely backwards. Maybe most gamers today really just care about purty graphics. If that is the case, the hardware companies don't have much to worry about, but that's also really sad. I actually still have more fun playing a few old text mode RPGs than most of today's FPS clones. Maybe I'm just odd in that, but most of my friends feel the same way. I can't claim to have any sort of truly objective view on this matter, mostly because I don't know the thousands of gamers it would take to form such a view.

Thank you for the reply! It's got me thinking :).

Re:I dunno about that.

[Ami Ganguli]

When my newest console can dynamically model a stadium full of people that look and sound like the real thing, maybe that will be enough.

I think that's actually pretty close. I'd bet that the next generation of consoles (say around 2005) can acheive effects comparable to the Final Fantasy movie. In other words, strikingly lifelike, but not quite 'real'. The next generation after that will be indistinguishable from reality. At that point there won't be anywhere for graphics to go.

And when all of the people in that stadium can pass a Turing test, maybe, just maybe, that will be enough.

How will that improve gameplay?

Re:I dunno about that.

[crt]

The universe is infinitly complex - there will never be enough processing power to truly make something indistinguishable from reality. You may make a pretty darn convincing simulation of reality, but it will always have its limits.

Until the simulation is complex enough that the simulation can be built within it.. (cut to scene from silly 13th floor movie)

Re:I dunno about that.

[dollargonzo]

imho the main problem is that games are not developed for linux, and without linux in mind. some of course are good and brilliant exceptions for this, but that doesnt change the point. a better question i think, is how is linux NOT a gaming platform? stable, good memory management, support for LOTS of hardware? what else do you want... companies just need to start developing games for linux from the start!

Re:I dunno about that.

[Pope]

When my newest console can dynamically model a stadium full of people that look and sound like the real thing, maybe that will be enough

Why? Aren't you supposed to be playing the game and not watching the crowd? :P

I think it's further evidence that my long-held opinion of hard-core gamers stands: they suck.

Re:I dunno about that.

[irongull]

I don't see it as an either/or situation. Increases in processing power will benefit both graphics and the strategic/AI aspect of the game. I like a good FPS, probably more than the next guy, but I definitely agree with you about the old-school RPGs. I've turned to the visceral, quick-thinking strategy of FPSs largely because the modern RPGs don't do it for me. (btw, don't tell me there's no strategy in CTF ;)

What I'm waiting for now is for someone to come up with a brilliant fusion of flashy FPS graphics and well-written RPG/sim. Deus Ex and Thief were two very solid steps in that direction. But its not enough ;)

The increase in processing power and storage in this latest round of consoles opens another interesting avenue of development - games for these consoles can be modded. More and more powerful consoles/PCs will bring more and more powerful tools for content creation to the "common man". While I don't have faith that the average guy in the street can produce a game that I'd want to play, I do have faith that if you have 100 million monkeys hammering on their computers, one of them will eventually write an interactive Hamlet.

I guess my point is that more power = better graphics = better AI = better strategy = more people playing and making games. Oh, and of course,

It is NEVER enough.

Re:I dunno about that.

[Ziviyr]

Sorry, to simulate a room you need not simulate the known universe it lies in at the same time.

After a few light-centuries you can start cutting corners... :-)

Re:I dunno about that.

[addaon]

Does this amaze anyone else? I'm 19. According to Moore's law, applied to system speed and memory density (yes, i know it originally applied only to transistor density; but this 'bastardized form' has held through my whole lifetime, so far) I will have pixar-level graphics on my desktop before I'm 35. Wow.

Re:I dunno about that.

[Daniel Wood]

"That said, I don't think the majority of the folks out there feel that way. There's a lot to be said for the strategy aspect of games, which has been sorely lacking for some time now (IMHO, for most games). Most gamers truly care about the true quality of the games they buy, and look at "gorgeous graphics" as a secondary condition."

Nah, most the poeple I talked to held out on the Dreamcast in favor of the PS2 because the PS2 would have "better" graphics. There is no such thing as enough, we haven't even begun to explre TRUE 3D envrionments, that will require an exponentially greater ammount of power.

Re:I dunno about that.

[Junks Jerzey]

If it was strictly about polygons and mip-mapping, then the PS1 would not have been competition for the N64, because PS1 games all looked like shit.

Even that isn't true. There are PS1 games that look as almost good as PC games: Crash Bandicoot 3, Crash Team Racing, Spyro the Dragon. Sure they don't look _quite_ as good as PC games, but the fact that they never ever crash or have driver problems is enough reason to buy a PS1 for $99.

Re:They are late

[wadetemp]

I have. I personally know 3 mothers who were camped out at ShopKo at 4:30 this morning. One of them (mine) was picking it up for my younger brothers and sisters back home as a Christmas present. If I personally know 3 people that were there before opening, I'm pretty sure that ShopKo's first-come first-serve lot of 30 units was gone 5 minutes after the store opened.

Mandarake gaming edition?

[PoopoocacaTroll]

Why would I need a specific OS for gaming when windows does gaming just fine, among other things. It's a bit of a pain to have to reboot to play games.

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[wadetemp]

That's a good call. Definitely avoid spending $300 on it. Besides, like I always say, research before buying!

come on

[nomadic]

On the whole, I'd rather have the Mandrake Gaming edition (mentioned previously) than a new console.

No you wouldn't. Come on, admit it.

Re:come on

[scottnews]

For just $89 you can:

Run popular Windows® games on Linux® with TransGaming Technologies®' portability layer.

Seamlessly run many Windows games on Linux including:

StarCraft®
Baldur's GateTM
Half-Life® Counterstrike
and many others through TransGaming's subscription service.

Or you could pay $72 to get a copy of WinME and run them natively without a subscription.

Re:come on

[dytin]

Or you could pay $72 to get a copy of WinME and run them natively without a subscription.

Yeah but also you don't have to reboot into windows just to play a game and you don't have to worry about your computer crashing right before you defeat the final boss. Most importantly though, you don't have to be dependant on Microsoft to use a computer (and you're taking away some of microsoft's profits!).

Re:come on

[be-fan]

worry about your computer crashing right before you defeat the final boss
>>>>>>>>
Given that you're running through a Windows compatibility layer, you have to worry more on Mandrake than on Windows!

Re:A Nice Thought & Commentary On The GameCube

[dimator]

Monkey Ball is the shiznit. I played it until the wee hours, as soon as I brought it home. Multiplayer goodness to the extreme.

Re:Late

[awwjunk]

I got mine in the mail from ebgames on Friday morning. Been playing it alot -- its a great system.

All three games I got were damn nice. RSII looks very good. Luigi's Mansion is somewhat addicting -- much more addicting than I thought it would be. I'd say more but I'm busy playing. I don't really know what all the fuss is about. These new consoles (xbox and gc) are fairly nice.

PS2 still rules.

[Lumpy]

I played the Xbox... didnt look or feel any different than my PS2.. and GT3 is a better game than gotham racing.

Sony has one helluva head start on the two newcomers... WE'll see where things lie next year....

My bets? Xbox goes the way the Jaguar went. It will die, but at least have better numbers than ATARI was possible of.
nintendo? I hope they can do it, although someone needs to beat the engineer that though not using a standard dvd was a good idea over the head with several SNES machines. what moron in engineering or management thought it was a good idea to not have a feature that everyone else has?

my first notice was the fact that the local stores still have Xboxes on the shelves.. funny, you couldnt get a PS2 for months after release, yet I could liesurely buy an Xbox.... anyone else notice this? or is it region specific?

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Richard5mith]

I hate Gran Turismo. But anyway...

No DVD in the GameCube allows them to be $100 cheaper than both the PS2 and the Xbox. That sounds like a good first reason for not having it. Secondly, they're marketing it as a GAMES machine, not a home-entertainment centre for your living room. And thirdly, Playstation 2 got off to a dreadful start in Japan because a ton of people bought them just as a cheap DVD player (which was somewhat of a rare thing in Japan at the time). That means they didn't buy games, the companies who created PS2 launch titles lost a fortune (like Namco) and Sony lost money too, because of course they make money from the game sales.

Thats your other reason for no DVD in the GC. And also the reason why most Japanese developers are now happy to create games for all three consoles, instead of putting all their eggs in one basket and getting burnt again (like they did with the PS2, losing them money and killing the Dreamcast).

Re:PS2 still rules.

[sporty]

tsk tsk, remember Nintendo isn't that much of a newcomer. It has over a decade of fans and players. They also have prior contracts and sequels the can do for a little while longer. Look and Mario, Luigi, Zelda, Pokemon (lord help me) and other popular characters that Nintendo that has as household names.

I'd say the cube and ps2 are on the level, except the ps2 has been out a little longer while nintendo corp has a good history going. After all, the ps2 and dreamcast didn't make the n64 go away or anywhere and vice versa. Sega just couldn't keep up a good fanbase nor release a good set of games. Well, at least not like it did in the old days :)

Re:PS2 still rules.

[zephc]

although someone needs to beat the engineer that though not using a standard dvd was a good idea over the head with several SNES machines. what moron in engineering or management thought it was a good idea to not have a feature that everyone else has?

It was a management decision. Any engineer(ing team) that could design the GC would want a full DVD player in it. Just wait for the Panasonic GC with full DVD capability, if you dont already have multiple DVD players in your house. They used the miniature size so that the DVD couldnt be duplicated to a standard DVD and still FIT in the GC (that's my guess anyway)

Re:PS2 still rules.

[newbiescum]

About the X-Boxes still being on the shelves, I imagine that is region specific. Considering that GameCubes are selling out in some places and they had 2x the number of shipments (700,000 GameCubes and roughly 300,000-400,000 X-Boxes), I would think that the X-Box would have similiar experiences. Plus, I hear most retailers only got 2 or 3 X-Boxes in some places. If they aren't selling out, then there is something seriously wrong with MS's marketing campaign.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[cybrthng]

Even if Xbox goes where Jaguar and NeoGeo went, It will have some awesome games to go along with it.

I don't know what is up with "fanboys" and console loyalty, but to me, it is about the fun and the games.

I will buy and Xbox, and i'll get my nephew a GameCube, i have no interestd in Pokeman or Mario, i played that back in the 80's when it was fun for me, kind of burned out on that.

People will buy whatever they want, but it is way to early to forecast the death of anything. People say the DC died a horrible death, but it still chugs along. Most stores have long since wiped out the N64 shelves or have moved on to used games only, but even out here in Amishville they carry a great selection of DC games as well as every new release..

buy what you want, but no one is right. Jaguar has some awesome games. And as far as people missing the bandwagon, thats what it appears to me as.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[daanger0us]

Hmm.. I dont know where you live, but here in Washington State its extremely hard to find anyone shops with xbox's. I finally found one last night and they would only reserve for an hour and I had to buy a bundle. They only had 2 left that they got from another store that hadn't met their sales quota. And when I was there buying mine, the guy who reserved the last one walked in.

They didnt even have any more MS Controllers, just 2 3rd party controllers left.

Same situation down in Portland, Oregon as well.

The XBox appeals to me because I like PC Games. I dont like cartoonish games like whats on the GameCube.

Plus, I got a component video hookup for my Xbox and it looks AMAZING on my tv.

I have never seen a PS2 game look as good as Halo through component video.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[seann]

apparently the laser arm can move the full disc width if the covers taken off.

reprogram some firmware..
voila

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Bluetick]

I don't know, anyone notice that last year the PS2 launched without much competition (the only being just about from Dreamcast). Anyone notice this year that X-box is being launched three days before another state of another brand spanking new console. And there's Gameboy Advances, and PS2s still fresh on the shelves? Anyone notice that last year the economy was in markedly improved state? Anyone notice that last year we weren't fighting a war?

Whatever, what happens happens. But I wouldn't say just because one system has a good or bad start is any indication of what it's progress will be, or even how good the system will be. Hell, I've had the PS2 since January and the system still sucks! Only console games I play are for Dreamcast. And I'm seriously considering selling my PS2 for a Gamecube (Pikmin and Sega games, sweeeet) or X-box.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Glytch]

I can only talk about the small Walmart where I work, but we sold out of the 24 Gamecubes we had in about 2 hours this morning. Four days have gone by since the X-box was released, and we've sold 4 out of 18 we had. We've sold 6 PS2's since the X-box release, the normal PS2 selling rate for a 4 day period here. Customers I talk to say that they just don't trust Microsoft to make anything good.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Lonesmurf]

What I never understood was why nintendo allowed all of their other fantastic characters like metroid and kid icarus from the NES and SNES days on to the N64 and the new game cube. I loved those games and they have so much potential to make a really cool game (or series of games). I know I'd buy a game cube when it comes out here in europe for a chance to play new metroid. Until then it's me and my dreamcast.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[benad]

Sorry, the Panasonic is not planned to be released for North America:
"The bad news is that the system is only going to be available in Japan for the time being according to one of the representatives at the show. He commented that it would be too expensive to bring it stateside."

http://cube.ign.com/news/37782.html

- Benad

Re:PS2 still rules.

[SectoidRandom]

I never played Mario or such when i was young, actually mainly because I never owned a console until this year actually (PS1 for pressent). (but i did play Gianna Sisters (sp?) on Amiga years ago! :]) I've always been a PC gamer, yes i think there is a big difference.

Still i can count hundreds of hours that i played Mario64 at friends places and now on Emulators! That game has so much playability, its unbelievable! Thats why the GameCube will be the first console that i will buy! :)

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Skuld-Chan]

I think the difference is (and yes I have both ps2 and a xbox) subtle - DOA 3 is definately better, more responsive, naughtier, and a little more colourful.

Halo is an interesting game - I found the cinematics got better as you progressed - the opening sucked. But in the game you'll notice something I've never seen in a game console before - bump mapping - and no as far as I know the PS2 nor the GC can do bump mapping at least for free (with little overhead).

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Nameles]

Nope, I went to the mall Friday to pick up a GBA game, and in two or three stores, I saw teenagers (!) (girls at that (!!)) buying them.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[MtViewGuy]

PlayStation 2 will still rule at least this Christmas because they finally have the killer app games that really show off the system: Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec, Metal Gear Solid 2, Madden NFL 2002, and coming early next year Final Fantasy X.

Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec is right now the coolest driving game I've ever played, especially if you can get the optional Logitech steering wheel/pedal controller.

I'm hoping that Konami releases a PS2-specific version of Dance Dance Revolution soon. :)

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Darth Yoshi]

Anyone notice this year that X-box is being launched three days before another state of another brand spanking new console.

Did you notice that Gamecube was originally suppose to be released Nov 5? 3 days before the Xbox that was originally suppose to be released Nov 8? And that the Gamecube release date was announced 2 hours after the Xbox release date was announced? :-)

Of course that was before the Gamecube was pushed back to Nov 18 (and after the president of Nintendo said it was absolutely going to be released Nov 5, lol). And then the Xbox was pushed back to Nov 15. Ya gotta love it.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[jx100]

The GOD (Gamecube Optical Disc) was actually partilally chosen by Shigeru Miyamoto (Nintendo's head game designer) and was based on other factors besides the ability to copy. Miyamoto hates load time. That's part of the reason for stcking with cartrige for the n64. The GOD has much less load time than a DVD or a CD because of the reduced mass. The drive doesn't have to move as far compared to a full-size DVD or CD. And space limitations are not a real concern, as the disc hold 1.5 GB. Yes, this is comsiderably less than a DVD (4.7 GB sl/ss) however games will not really need all of that space (unless ithe disc has a lot of media, like FMV or voice) If 1.5 GB isn't enough, the developer can always add another disc.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[jjjack]

PS2 still sucks? What? You been hiding under a rock for the last month? Grand Theft Auto 3, Devil May Cry, Tony Hawk 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, SSX Tricky....no good games? Why do you think that there's a sudden burst of top-rated five star PS2 games right about now? You probably gave up on the system months ago and stopped looking at what was coming. These games are great! I dont even have enough money to consider buying an XBox or Gamecube right now because I've already spent my money on these games and I promise I don't regret it at all. Halo's supposed to be great and all, but I don't have any faith in the XBox, and current Gamecube games are mostly mediocre.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[PotatoHead]

Yes the Jaguar did. Bought the system for Tempest 2000 and Alien vs Predator. Still play them and they are still good. Wonder why nobody has ported AvsP to newer systems in the form that exists for the Jag? It was a great game.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[JubeiX]

The PS2 cannot do bump-mapping on the cheap, but the Gamecube certainly can. It's multi-texturing capabilities actually exceed the XBox's by a significant margin. XBox has 4 stage multitexture, GV has 8.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[ProfKyne]

although someone needs to beat the engineer that though not using a standard dvd was a good idea over the head with several SNES machines. what moron in engineering or management thought it was a good idea to not have a feature that everyone else has?

Forget about DVDs.

1. Nintendo isn't Sony -- they have nothing to gain by sneaking a DVD player into every kid's bedroom.
2. Nintendo is going to be the last of the console makers to worry about game piracy, because their format is nonstandard.
3. Their system is $100 cheaper off the bat, which is a plus for savings-minded parents in this economy.
4. Most people who can plunk down $200 on a next-gen console can probably plunk down $150 on a decent DVD player that fits on their stereo rack and isn't bright purple (and have already).
5. Sony's DVD implementation on PS2 wasn't even that great, my friend's "X-Men" didn't even play on it. For all their other problems, Nintendo hardware tends to be very good quality.

my first notice was the fact that the local stores still have Xboxes on the shelves.. funny, you couldnt get a PS2 for months after release, yet I could liesurely buy an Xbox.... anyone else notice this? or is it region specific?

I hope that Microsoft learned from Sony's mistake, in not providing enough units to satisfy initial demand. I know that I would have bought one the day it came out if I could have. Now I'm glad that they weren't readily available for months, because I've decided to wait and see how the other next-gen offerings will be. That's $300 that they haven't gotten from me yet.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[astrosmash]

Cringely wrote an article back in March on why Nintendo stuck with cartridges for N64, and why they're using a proprietary mini-dvd for the Game Cube.

The answer comes down to how Nintendo ran (and probably still runs) its distribution system in Japan. The system dates from Nintendo's days as a card game company, and in it, the wealth creation was tied to people at various levels in the complex system of middlemen buying more product than they could legitimately use.

From what I gather, a proprietary media allows Nintendo to maintain its grip on the supply chain. By owning the supply chain, Nintendo can charge game publishers for each game produced, rather than each game sold to retail.

No returns were allowed. And since masked ROMs had long manufacturing lead times and assembly caused delays, developers and publishers were encouraged to buy lots of cartridges lest they be stuck without stock if the game became a big hit. For Nintendo, the game was already a hit if an optimistic publisher could be persuaded to buy lots of cartridges. Except for the biggest of blockbuster hit games, it didn't matter to Nintendo's accounting department whether the game was good or not, or whether customers even bought it.

Now, I'm not sure if that logic really translates to mini-dvd manufacturing, but Nintendo has always done it her way...

One thing's for sure, the mini-dvd driver certainly wasn't an engineering decision.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[PotatoHead]

I checked that one out. It was very similar in concept, but very different in play mechanic. In the Jaguar game, there was a very nice guided discovery element. Exploring the ship and learning where the key elements were was a lot of fun and risky at the same time.

The PC version is more of a guided tour. You are given a path and resources and from there it is just a shooter. Pretty decent one, but still not the same.

Fox produced the PC version, Renegade software did the Jag version.

Find a Jag and play that version. It is worth it.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Jace of Fuse!]

My bets? Xbox goes the way the Jaguar went. It will die, but at least have better numbers than ATARI was possible of. '

Of the XBox failes (not likely) it will be more of type of failure the Dreamcast had. A big buzz at release and a quick fade with a remaining and steady fanbase.

It isn't even SANE to think the Xbox will fail in any way similar to the Jaguar.

The Jaguar wasn't even truely 64 bit, had a horrid selection of first and third party games, had hardware that was very similar to the already ancient SNES, and had a price-tag in the area getting close to the vastly superior NeoGeo.

No games. Crappy Hardware. No fanbase. High Price. Atari's 64 Bit Gagwire. Do the math.

The XBox may not dominate. If any one of the three dominate, it will probably be the Playstation 2 simply because it's already situated well in the market. But I doubt even the PSY will dominate any more than the XBox will fail.

Me personally, I'm investing more into building up a Gamecube game library, then buying Xbox and PSX/Y titles on a see-them-as-they-come basis. Well, really, I do that with every system, but I already have a larger list of "I-gotta-get-it" titles for the Gamecube -- and none of THOSE are even out yet.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Vermifax]

"No DVD in the GameCube allows them to be $100 cheaper than both the PS2 and the Xbox. "

Nice, but completely wrong. No DVD movie ability basically saves them $20 in licensing fees (Which on the Xbox the consumer has to pay anyway by purchasing a special remote). Also, something you might have forgotten. Sony makes money whether you buy DVD movies OR PS2 games.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[zephc]

yes, but has something being just sold only in japan ever stopped most geeks? =]

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Skuld-Chan]

Ah well I stand corrected (about the GC). I dunno - have you played DOA 3 on the Xbox? I liked DOA 2 on the ps2, but xbox definately takes the PS2 to town on this game.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Tsian]

No, actually, they don't. On each console they sell, they take a loss of ~150 USD

Re:PS2 still rules.

[erasmus_]

So basically you're interpreting the fact that Microsoft did a better job with manufacturing and distribution to mean that their console is inferior. I think that's really good logic - Sony made less units initially (with many problems leading to recalls, I might add), so b/c it was hard to buy one, it must be better. Right. Go read the Wired article about the mfg of the Xbox to get a better insight as to why there are plenty of units available to those who want them.

Re:PS2 still rules.

[karb]

I hope they can do it, although someone needs to beat the engineer that though not using a standard dvd was a good idea over the head with several SNES machines. what moron in engineering or management thought it was a good idea to not have a feature that everyone else has?

First off, Nintendo is very careful to make money off everything they do ... so, if Sony sells 100 million PS2s (losing $ on consoles but making it on games), and Nintendo sells 25 million gamecubes (making $ on consoles and games), they both make the same amount of money.

Secondly, (I have to say this because everybody criticizes the gamecube for this) the gamecube is mostly targeted towards little kids, who don't really care that much about whether or not they have a dvd player. They care about Pokemon. Nintendo will battle in the older demographic but are unlikely to dominate except among hardcore fans of their systems and games (like me :) ).

Third, the gamecube is really really tiny and I'm not sure if they could have fit everything in with full size dvd's :)

Finally, since it's $100 cheaper than the other consoles at the moment, you can go out and buy a totally separate dvd player with that money. :)

Re:PS2 still rules.

[Godai]

Metroid didn't make the N64 because of one simple reason: the Japanese don't like it. Apparently Nintendo of America (NOA) practically begged Nintendo of Japan (NOA) for almost the entire life of the N64 to let them develop one in house (or at least pass it on to a Nintendo-partially-owned company) if NOJ wasn't interested. This is becuase sales in Japan were mediocre, while sales in North America were very high. The thing to remember about Sony & NOJ is that while both like making money, there's this wierd pride thing about Japan they have going on. Sometimes it's like both would take a bath in North America on a game, just so long as they get incredible, boast-worth numbers in Japan. It's a damned shame really...

At any rate, NOA eventually convinced NOJ, and Metroid 64 was in the works (via Retro Studios), but it came to late in the life cycle of the N64. So they simply shifted it to the Gamecube. So we should be getting a new Metroid sometime next year for GC.

As for Icarus...well, that's anyone's guess. That's a character who gets brought up everytime Nintendo or one of it's partually owned companies talks 'secret project'...but it's never been borne out. Too bad...Kid Icarus was a damned fun game back in the day.

BTW, I've been playing my brother's GC a little bit (little bastard took it back to university with him this morning) and I was pretty impressed. What I don't understand though is why no one's talking about Rogue Squadron on this board; it's all Luigi or Wave Race (both impressive). RS kicks major ass, and I had trouble putting it down :)

XBox Availability

[SimplyCosmic]

It's definitely not the case in Northern Ohio. Both Gamecubes and XBoxen have sold out within the day and backorders for pre-orders are common.

:shrug:

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[dimator]

I personally don't see whats so great about packing a bunch of old systems into one.

Huh? Did you read something that lead you to believe the gamecube is an amalgamation of NES, SNES, N64?

Im not much of a gammer but even if i were i won't spend $300 on the game cube.

That's good, because it's $200. Add a game, $250.

A thought

[forgoil]

PCs really took off when there became many different manufacturers. Wouldn't it be great if many manufacturers could make the same gaming console? Had to have the same specs and such, so all games would work, but it would definitly be very interesting never the less.

Re:A thought

[wadetemp]

Actually, this is happening with the GameCube. Panasonic is making a hybrid GameCube system that also functions as a DVD player. I'm sure more will follow, although whether these make it to the US or not, I don't know. But this is evidence that Nintendo is open to the idea you mention.

Re:A thought

[Score Whore]

Not really a good idea. The strength of the PC market is that different companies can try different ways to make "their" vision of a PC better. By way of being cheaper, faster, etc. And the result is that you have a hundred slightly different platforms and are constrained to using high level APIs to interface with the hardware. The big advantage of consoles is that you have a single specific target to aim at. You can tune your application to deal with the specific strengths of the console, you can avoid the specific weaknesses. As a developer you don't want there to be different versions of the same platform. You need to know exactly how your hardware behaves. Sure there are going to be revisions, but they are typically going to involve minor upgrades or just a matter of throwing out the old and bringing in the new.

Re:A thought

[alen]

While it sounds good, it will never happen. PC companies make money on every hardware sale. Console companies lose money on the hardware, but get a royalty of $10 a game or something like that for every game sold. Totally different business model. When is the last time Microsoft paid Compaq and Dell sell Windows and MS Office?

Re:A thought

[Richard5mith]

It's hapenned before, it was called 3DO, and it failed miserably.

Why?

Well the high cost of the system was the reason - and this is because of the way the console business works. The hardware is sold at a loss and then the games are sold with a licensing fee going to the hardware manufacturer, in order for them to make up the difference (it's the printer and shaving model also). If you have 5 different companies making the same hardware, and they're all out courting developers to get them making games - who gets the licensing fee for each copy sold?

You're also promoting your competitors system everytime you advertise. Panasonic spend a fortune promoting the 3DO name and system, so people to go the store to buy a 3DO and end up walking out with the Sony one instead. To them, it's still a 3DO, and it's got a brand they know on it. It sounds stupid, but that's the way these things go.

So in the end, they don't sell the console at a loss, they sell it at the actual price, and nobody buys them because they cost $500 each. Game Over.

This was Microsoft's original plan with the Xbox, but since nobody was interested (they spoke to Dell, Compaq etc) they just decided to make it themselves.

Re:A thought

[terracon]

The Hybrid is only available in Japan. No plans for a North American release from what I've been reading.

Re:A thought

[toriver]

Yeah, we could call it... MSX! Point is, it's been tried before, and failed then.

Re:A thought

[forgoil]

Not different systems (as far as the software is concerned), but different manufacturers. A well specified API/performace spec would mean all of them can make the same software work, but add different nifty things. Maybe better AA, the possibility to play the games in HDTV resolution and really getting it to work, double as other kinds of devices, built in the TV, toaster, lawnmover, pacemaker. There are tons of stuff they can do without having to run different software.

Linux != Gaming

[EchoMirage]

On the whole, I'd rather have the Mandrake Gaming edition (mentioned previously) than a new console.

This is humping Linux for Linux' sake, but of course, it's FUD. Linux is not a gaming platform - we've seen a plethora of evidence for this. The Linux gaming companies can't turn sustained profits, games get released months (sometimes years) after their other-platform counterparts, and support is sketchy, at best.

Timothy saying he'd rather have M:GE instead of a GameCube would be like me saying I'd rather use my bicycle to travel from LA to Boston instead of taking a plane. Sure they both serve essentially the same function, but one is more practical in an exponentially more obvious way.

If you're going to parade Linux around, at least do so intelligently in markets where it actually has the edge.

Re:Linux != Gaming

[Enonu]

Just for your information. FUD stands for "Fear", "Uncertainty" and "Doubt". A good essay on its use and history can be found here. Cheers

Re:Linux != Gaming

[zulux]

Linux is not a gaming platform - we've seen a plethora of evidence for this.

FYI: The developers kit for the PS2 (The 'Tool' box) runs Linux. PS2 home kits now can run Linux. More importantly - most consoles are evolving to a cross-platform development model. You can take a decently programmed PC game and get it to run on an Xbox and GameCube with only a bit of fuss (If you don't need a bunch of storage on the GameCube.)

Re:Linux != Gaming

[pixel_bc]

This is humping Linux for Linux' sake, but of course, it's FUD.

Agreed. By the end of the first 6 months, we'll see more games and industry support for the GC then we willf or any 'gaming edition' of Linux over the next 5 years.

... because publishers will make money off the GC. And thats all she wrote.

I hope we keep seeing Linux servers for all the multiplayer stuff. I can't explain how much I'm sure that stable, fast, servers have contributed to successes like Half Life and others.

Re:Linux != Gaming

[Arielholic]

This is humping Linux for Linux' sake, but of course, it's FUD. Linux is not a gaming platform - we've seen a plethora of evidence for this. The Linux gaming companies can't turn sustained profits, games get released months (sometimes years) after their other-platform counterparts, and support is sketchy, at best.

Timothy saying he'd rather have M:GE instead of a GameCube would be like me saying I'd rather use my bicycle to travel from LA to Boston instead of taking a plane. Sure they both serve essentially the same function, but one is more practical in an exponentially more obvious way.
If you're going to parade Linux around, at least do so intelligently in markets where it actually has the edge


your reasoning is flawed. first you say that linux will never be a good gaming because of the market, (and not because of technical arguments) then try to give an analogy which is based on a technical comparison. BZZZZZZT bad analogy. please don't mix up things when using analogies, and please don't close with "linux is a good server platform, let's not try to use it for gaming, that will never succeed!"

Sad

[ergo98]

I'm Sticking them on eBay soon as they are good and out of them and let the people who MUST have one get one.

No one must have a Gamecube, so don't pretend that you're pursuing a noble cause. Having said that I hope Nintendo absolutely swamps the market will millions, meaning that the most you'll ever get is retail (and it sounds like it will be like that as Nintendo has good production, meaning that I'd much rather pay retail than deal with the hassle of Ebay and some unknown person. I doubt anyone is going to profiteer off the Gamecube, or the Xbox for that matter. It was sweet after Christmas last year seeing hundreds of wankers trying to pawn PS2s at progressively lower prices, eventually taking a pretty heavy loss as the store prices dropped). The fact that scalpers such as yourself run and buy up all the stock just to rape families whose kids want a game to play really pisses me off, and I hope that you are left holding the bag on that.

Re:Sad

[wadetemp]

What? Capitalism IS Slashdot's primary cause. (Re: numerous stories on defeating copyright protection in the name of saving money on CDs.) This post seems quite typical and "approprate" considering the audience. :)

But I am a pretty half-assed capitalist, and I agree with you, this is just wrong. There are probably plenty of mothers or fathers who really wanted to get something thier young children wanted for Christmas and now they can't on the budget they have because of "scalpers."

Re:Sad

[TheDarkRogue]

I don't think it's a Noble cause at all; I'm in it purely for financial gain. I talk of the families who MUST get their kids the new Game system, because the Kid Demands it and will be heart broken if he doesn't. The Parent who is so weak as to say no to their kid who wants the latest and greatest of the year (Disputable, I know, lets not get into an X-Bob Vs; GameCube thing here) and don't have the power to say no. They have so much money that they can buy their kid this new thing for Christmas, well then I would be GLAD to take their money. Maybe buy myself a nice new Radon or GF3. On eBay, I'm gonna put the starting price so I would just break even (That includes the Chinese Buffet I got while waiting till midnight) And let it go from there. The Other trick is that I kept my receipts, and never opened the boxes, so if things for some reason don't go well, I Can take them back and again, break even (Cept for that Chinese Buffet), and just pass this weekend off as a fun campout at Wal-Mart. So really I can't be left "holding the bag" (The 3 bags are hanging, out of harms reach, in my closet btw). And us scalpers will continue to be the early birds and prey off of the late and lame ones. That is how the world works. Sad and Cruel, but true none the less.

Re:Sad

[Shabazz]

More power to you. Camping out seems like a great way to earn $30. And you do make a good point about those brats who need the latest and greatest, whereas your desire to buy a GF3 or Radeon clearly is driven by necessity.
Scalpers are bad.

Re:Sad

[jslag]

Maybe buy myself a nice new Radon

Don't do it, radon is nothing but trouble.

Re:Sad

[yunfat]

There are X-box's and GC's on the shelves where I live, but this I hear is quite rare. The only thing I had trouble finding was component video cables for my GC, Nintendo clearly was unable to anticipate demand.

Re:Sad

[ergo98]

Same around this area: There is no problem finding either Xboxes or Gamecubes in local stores (or online stores for that matter), which is a very good thing. It seems that a lot of the game-scalpers got seriously jaded after last years PS2 fiasco: For every guy who made it big with his Ebayed PS2s, another 10 had a closet full that they probably still have sitting around.

Re:Sad

[RainbowSix]

What's wrong wth scalping? It is a simple matter of supply and demand. If there is a demand for one at a price then it should be a right to sell it. By selling it at a price below what someone would pay you are depriving the product from the hands of someone who is willing to pay more for it but can't get to the store in time.

That guy is a true capitalist. You my friend, sound to me like a commie. You aren't a commie, are you? :)

}-- all that from a 100 level intro econ class :p

(Note, I'm not saying capitalism or communism is good or bad, just showing a point that I don't think scalping is bad. It's like paying a premium for a service that makes the product more likely to be available.)

Re:Sad

[rkischuk]

It was sweet after Christmas last year seeing hundreds of wankers trying to pawn PS2s at progressively lower prices, eventually taking a pretty heavy loss as the store prices dropped). The fact that scalpers such as yourself run and buy up all the stock just to rape families whose kids want a game to play really pisses me off, and I hope that you are left holding the bag on that.

Oh get over yourself. There's a bit of a double standard in that you seem to find it perfectly reasonable that retailers constrict supply of these systems, preventing consumers from (theoretically) eliminating the middle man and getting a better price. Some of them even enforce bundling restrictions. So why are the scalpers evil?

Like it or not, this is capitalism at work. If someone wants to hustle their butt and risk some of their cash in the hopes of pulling down a better price, who are you to criticize? Retailers do the same thing, but we've been numbed to accept it in the name of convenience. Marked up GameCubes are obviously worth it to those who purchase them - it provides a valuable second market for the systems.

Can you really blame someone? There is ONLY upside potential here. Get a good price? Sell and take it to the bank. Can't sell it? Take the store receipt in for a full refund.

Also, you assume that the families that buy these systems from resellers would be the ones to pick the system up from the store, were it not for the greedy bastards. This is absurd. For some families, people like this guy are the only way they'd ever get a system before Christmas. Their time is more valuable than their money. Get off your high horse.

Re:Sad

[ergo98]

Oh get over yourself. There's a bit of a double standard in that you seem to find it perfectly reasonable that retailers constrict supply of these systems, preventing consumers from (theoretically) eliminating the middle man and getting a better price. Some of them even enforce bundling restrictions. So why are the scalpers evil?

Huh? How does some guy who heads down to Walmart and picks up 3, then putting the extra overhead of yet ANOTHER layer in there "eliminate the middleman"? That's absolutely preposterous. Having said that retailers don't artificially constrict the supply of these systems: They want to sell as many as they can! I've yet to see a store, ANYWHERE (in fact it is largely illegal here in Canada), saying "Well we only have 10 Gamecubes left so these ones are going for $999". They sell them for the same price whether they have 1 or 1,000,000.

You would find my other posts ironically humorous given that I am one of the biggest advocates of REAL capitalism (i.e. where people who produce get rewarded for their production), however I have a problem with bogus capitalism: That is the leaches that suck productivity from the rest of humanity, contributing nothing but imposing their tax. Someone buying some game machines and then reselling them offers absolutely no added value, but they impose their tax. It's a tragedy of the commons playing out in consumer electronics, and again I applaud Nintendo for flooding the market with Gamecubes ensuring a fair price for all.

Also, you assume that the families that buy these systems from resellers would be the ones to pick the system up from the store, were it not for the greedy bastards. This is absurd. For some families, people like this guy are the only way they'd ever get a system before Christmas. Their time is more valuable than their money. Get off your high horse.

I assume this is one of those funny "I only do it because everyone else does" sort of justifications: i.e. if he didn't buy a bunch up to scalp then damnit someone else would have. More realistically if there were no scalpers then yeah, probably 80% of them would be bought up by families for Christmas presents, etc. Instead 80% are bought up by scalpers. BTW: This "scalpers do a public service!" thing has played out regarding event tickets many times in the past, with scalpers claimer that without them the average joe couldn't get a ticket, but the reality being that the average joe can't get a ticket because of scalpers buying them up (under the pretense, of course, of doing a public service for the average Joe).

Re:Sad

[ergo98]

What's wrong wth scalping? It is a simple matter of supply and demand. If there is a demand for one at a price then it should be a right to sell it. By selling it at a price below what someone would pay you are depriving the product from the hands of someone who is willing to pay more for it but can't get to the store in time.

If it's simply "supply and demand" then why doesn't the store jack the price up to $500 if there isn't enough units? Would that simply be the fair thing to do? True "Supply and demand" in a capitalist society dictates that the supplier or demander are the ones who profit/lose based upon the supply/demand ratio, not some third party leach.

Re:Sad

[rkischuk]

Huh? How does some guy who heads down to Walmart and picks up 3, then putting the extra overhead of yet ANOTHER layer in there "eliminate the middleman"?

Point being that there have already been so many other middlemen in the mix, who are we to criticize only the last one for taking a markup? What about the retailer who charges $300 for a gamecube, a game and a controller in a mandatory bundle? It's their choice - don't like it? Take a hike.

That is the leaches that suck productivity from the rest of humanity, contributing nothing but imposing their tax. Someone buying some game machines and then reselling them offers absolutely no added value, but they impose their tax.

The added value is convenience, or accessibility. The sellers are on the ball enough to pick up the system when it goes on sale. Most stores enforce a 1 system per-person limit. There was every opportunity to get a system if someone was paying attention. If there wasn't a demand here, people would walk, they wouldn't pay, and people would get their due. There's nothing urgent here, this is purely a luxury. If this wasn't 100% worth it to the buyers, there's an obvious option - get something else or wait.

This "scalpers do a public service!" thing has played out regarding event tickets many times in the past, with scalpers claimer that without them the average joe couldn't get a ticket, but the reality being that the average joe can't get a ticket because of scalpers buying them up (under the pretense, of course, of doing a public service for the average Joe).

It's a fine line to walk here.... These people spent their time and risked their money on something they thought might have a higher market value in the future than its fixed retail value. Their time is worth something, and so is their risk. This pattern repeats itself time and again throughout our society. Not every enterprising individual has access to tickets or electronics or you name it at wholesale cost such that they can resale at this "acceptable" retail price, but why fault them for jumping on an opportunity when they see it? Our economy is built on the spread between what people can buy something for, and what they can sell it for.

Based on the stores here in Atlanta, anyone who made it to a major retailer within the first couple of hours after they opened could easily have walked away with a GameCube at retail price. There was no shortage of opportunity, only shortages of awareness. It's like berating people for buying a Microsoft stock 10 years ago and selling it for several multiples of that now. What did they do? They took a risk in time and money. Did they add any value to the stock certificate while they held onto it? No. Did anyone have the chance to get in? Yes. Behold the wonders of a free market - some early birds will get the worms, and the late birds pay for being late.

Re:Sad

[donglekey]

Well guess what, I work at circuit city and we didn't even sell out of them by the end of the day. Want to really make money? Scalp Gamecube component digital output cables. Gamecube's have been manufactured heavily, they aren't in short supply. Sorry bitch, your sorry shortcut to not having to work for money is out the window.

Re:They are late

[dimator]

but I haven't heard of anyone sleeping over at a store to be the first to have one!!!

Consider yourself informed; about 30 people (including me) were camped out last night.

Let's not forget that Nintendo has been doing this a while. They're not going to roll over and die, they're going to roll their sleeves up and show the industry a thing or two.

Anecdotal evidence

[general_re]

I heard from a guy who was poking around Toys "R" Us on his way home from work last week, looking into systems for Christmas. His report:

Number of kids and adults crowded around the GameCube demo: 6
Number of people lining up to see the X-Box demo: 0

;)

Re:Anecdotal evidence

[guinsu]

The default x-box demo sucks. The local EB repalced it with Halo a few weeks ago (probably against the rules, but oh well). Always has 2 players and a crowd around it now.

Re:Anecdotal evidence

[EvlPenguin]

Number of people lining up to see the X-Box demo: 0

Well, there may be reason for that -- the same reason as for those "malfunctioning" units. In my local EB, the X-Box kiosk was places within a few yards of the register. It got to the point where they couldn't tell who was on line and who was just waiting for their turn on Xbox, so they just turned the thing off. They now refer to it as "black box".

Re:Anecdotal evidence

[Osty]

The local EB repalced it with Halo a few weeks ago (probably against the rules, but oh well).

Nope, that was the rule. A week or two prior to the XBox launch, several stores were given the go-ahead to run certain games. Something like Gamestop/Software, Etc. got to run NFL Fever 2002, EB got to run Halo, and Target got to run DOA3. (not sure if the store->game matchup is quite right, but that's the gist of it anyway.) Other stores seemed to have their own choice, as the local CompUSA was running first the demo disk (which even had at least one person at it at all times), then DOA3, and is now running Halo (every time I've been in there, I've never seen the demo empty). It's right next to a PS2 display, PS1 display, and N64 display (no Gamecube display yet, though I haven't been in there since last night).

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[overturf]

Whew.. Good thing Nintendo is selling it for $199 then!

Re:But.

[gazbo]

Totally off-topic and I expect to be moderated as such, but please heed my warning:
Do not follow those links. The material is so lame (ph34r my eloquence) that I actually felt any joviality in my soul being absorbed.

I imagine the author of this site as a fragile old man, shaking and close to a nervous breakdown, desperately scraping for comedy material whilst sobbing at his own humourless ineptitude.

Why I choose the gamecube

[frizz]

I didn't buy a nintendo 64. I purchased a playstation after it had been out for 3 years (my Sega CD kept me content until then). Although I have dozens of games, I don't really get around to playing them. I have arrived at the conclusion that I just don't have very much time anymore for the long, complex RPGs that used to eat up my time. Even though playstation 1/2 and X-box games might be more "mature" than N64 and gamecube games, I find myself having more fun with nintendo games in general.

Also, I've had too many troubles with hard drives in the past and don't wish to introduce another one into my life. Are hard drives the most failure-prone component in computer systems?

Re:But.

[tcd004]

Your reply was so enjoyable it made the creation of the entire site worthwhile.

Thanks for letting us absorb some of your joviality!

Just got my GameCube

[jefflinwood]

I went to BestBuy here in Austin right after it opened today. They had plenty (30-40) available. I thought about buying an extra to sell on eBay, but then I figured I'd just get stuck with it and have to sell at a loss, since Nintendo seems to be able to get these things out the door. I went up to GameSpot yesterday to check out the XBox, and the game I saw (don't know the name, but it was some sort of futuristic Mario Kart) looked like the Playstation 1 games I used to have. And the XBox controller sucked. So that sort of reconfirmed my decision to buy a GameCube (cheaper, Rogue Squadron, Pikimin).

I got three games, a 3rd-pary controller, and a memory card.

• Luigi's Mansion - seems like fun, in the spirit of Super Mario 64, but just got it
• Super Monkey Ball - haven't unwrapped, but I wanted a 4-person multiplayer game
• Star Wars Rogue Squadron - This game has amazing graphic! The gameplay is similar to Rogue Squadron for the N64, but the grafx are much, much better, even in "Hi-res" N64 mode with the video memory pack.

I would say the GameCube is a no-brainer. Oh, and it's pretty easy to find XBox's in Austin, so I'm guessing XBox will flop. Only because I hate buying the "wrong" video game system. (Genesis vs SNES, N64 vs PS1, Dreamcast vs PS2)

Re:Just got my GameCube

[wadetemp]

I think you're right about the XBox flopping, but what was the logic here?

Oh, and it's pretty easy to find XBox's in Austin, so I'm guessing XBox will flop

You opened by saying that it was really easy to find a GameCube in Austin too. What does that say about the GameCube?

Re:Just got my GameCube

[cybrthng]

Are you on crack?

I have yet to see an Xbox game look like a PS1 game. I have yet to see a store anywhere that has an Xbox on the shelf right now as well.

Luigi's mansion "seems like fun"
Super MonkeyBall "havn't unrwapped"
Star was "seens the same as the n64 game"

Buddy, it seems as if you bought the "wrong" video game system.

Dreamcast is awesome, your just missing out on some great gaminng if you didn't buy one. Xbox is awesome to, it will have Shenmue 2 of which i'm buying an Xbox for.

PS2 is nice, but i'm not a fan of really any games out for it, i got bored of Gran Tourismo on the PS1 so why would i fork over 50 bucks for a rehashed version?

Gamecube will sell, but there is no "wrong" console as they all have games.

Dreamcast has 300 titles alone, not including jap releases. Sonic, Sonic 2, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Virtua Tennis, NFL2k1, NBA2k1, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena, Jet Grind Radio, House of the Dead, Sould Calibur, Rayman 2, Mr Driller, 18 Wheeler, Phantasy Star Online, Sega Bass Fishing, Seaman, Samba De Amigo, and much much more are reasons i have a dreamcast. And each console has its own similar reasons.

Re:Just got my GameCube

[jefflinwood]

Well, if you look at the numbers, there are a lot more GameCubes on the market than XBox. 700,000 GCs on opening day, 300,000 XBox's. I also went down when the store opened today.

I should have clarified that point though

Re:Just got my GameCube

[bucky0]

Sega Bass Fishing???
You looked forward to a ps2 for that? Man, I feel bad for you

Re:Just got my GameCube

[cybrthng]

I don't look forward to it on a ps2.. just a fun game on the Dreamcast.

I don't own a PS2, i look forward to an Xbox :) I want "Shenmue 2" as stated.

Dream Gamecube

[MA17]

The GameCube is almost everything I could ask for in a console; it's purple, and it's a cube. If only it had electicity arcing all over it and said "Warning: Incoming Game" when I turned it on, then it would be THE last word in console systems.

I love ReBoot by the way, maybe I shouldn't but maybe you should.

Re:Dream Gamecube

[Mooset]

HAHA! I'm a Reboot fanatic but the connection never occured to me. I think I will have to get a GameCube now too!

Actually, I'd like to go X-country on my BikeE ...

[timothy]

Eh, I don't really care about what is or isn't (considered) a "gaming platform" -- the Mandrake release sounds interesting because it would let me play with a computer game that looks sort of interesting (the Sims) without paying for either a new piece of hardware (console) or another OS (some variety of Windows). I've seen screenshots from the Sims, and I know a lot of people are fascinated by it, but I've never played, myself. Since I'm likely to buy a boxed Mandrake 8.1 anyhow, the price difference isn't much, making it much more tempting as an experiment.

Re: "markets where it actually has the edge," I'm not saying that you should want to buy the Mandrake gaming edition, or anything else. I like fireworks, Honda Goldwings, and Korean food, among other things -- if you prefer to spend your money and attention on things I don't like, well ... OK, that's your choice to make. Since Linux is for the moment at least my OS of choice, games that run under Linux have the edge in my one-person market.

Maybe one day I'll care enough to buy a game console, but so far and for the most part the actual games leave me cold. Tastes vary, situations are complex, etc.

And really, it was an offhand (but truthful) statement of preference, not a demand that anyone else agree. Chill :)

timothy

Is it just me...

[PlaysWithMatches]

from the if-you-care dept.

Is it just me, or is timothy getting irritating with his insulting the very content he posts? If it's such awful news, or so pointless, why post it? And if it's worth posting, why put snide remarks in for the "department" and throughout the post?

Leave the snide remarks to us visitors. :)

Re:Actually, I'd like to go X-country on my BikeE

[Anonymous Coward]

It was lame and sad.

Besides making you look like an idiot, it also reminded everyone who reads the story, for no reason at all, that GNU\Linux is a joke of a game platform when compared to the GameCube.

Don't worry - there's plenty still to come.

[Haeleth]

"Basically, there will be a point soon where even gaming consoles will all be "fast enough", which will mean bad news for hardware manufacturers until the "Next Big Thing" emerges to max out even cutting-edge stuff. Will it be "true virtual reality"? Who knows? I for one will be interested to see..."

I'm waiting for real-time raytraced lighting, and some kind of equivalent for sound. (Wavetracing?) Oh, and forget texture mapping - I want every bobble of the carpet to be individually modelled, same as every fibre of cloth, for proper realism.

You may look at current systems and think things can't get much better, but there's still a huge amount of stuff that these systems can't even dream of handling. I remember looking at Doom and wondering how Quake could improve on it - doesn't that sound silly now?

Frankly, I believe we have years of meaningful speed increases to come. It's not time to worry yet.

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[PlaysWithMatches]

Im not much of a gammer

You're not much of a speller either. :P
Here ya go

Walmart is open 24 hours!

[AaronBaker2000]

I got my cube at 12:30 AM this morning. I got to the store at 10:00 PM and there were already 30 people in line and 40 systems available. However, the sales clerks said there wasn't even a line for the xBox launch. Cool!

BTW, Monkey Ball RULES!

Game Systems

[king-manic]

Few people will buy something merely for it's specs. Most people require 1 or more "Killer APP" to buy these machines. Playstation had Final Fantasy 7 and Metal Gear Solid. N64 had Zelda. What does mandrake have? I haven't seen anything for the X-box that would quilify either. All their games are simply standard genre peices with somewhat prettier effects. I don't think it will have much success unless it can grab a game like Final Fantasy.

Re:Game Systems

[SuiteSisterMary]

For me, the X-Box killer app is Dead or Alive 3. You'll notice that pretty much EVERY 'killer app' is a sequal or remake of some sort. The x-box doesn't have a lot of those. :-)

Re:A Nice Thought & Commentary On The GameCube

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't know any japanese, how do you know you didn't just take 7 hours to die? Lots of Mario games ahve rather "happy" game over graphics, that you could have confused with an underwhelming end-game sequence....

Re:But.

[gazbo]

Ph34r my joviality

Do your research

[hyyx]

[from the article]:

"By contrast, both Sony and Microsoft are positioning their boxes as the foundation for home entertainment systems. The Xbox has a built-in hard drive and high-speed Internet port, and the PlayStation 2 will soon have both through external adapters... Nintendo wanted to keep the GameCube price low and keep the audience focused on the games, analysts said."

The Gamecube _does_ have add-on components for dial-up and broadband connectivity. I think it's smart to have these features as an add-on for everyone who may/not want a wired box. This has been announced for some time now:

modem adapter: http://www.nintendo.com/systems/gcn/gcn_acc_modem. jsp
broadband adapter: http://www.nintendo.com/systems/gcn/gcn_acc_broadb and.jsp

Consoles with OS's

[JollyTX]

I don't want consoles with operating systems, dvd players, harddisks, web browsers. That's what PC's are for. When I fire up my PS1 or N64, I expect them to load the games quickly, without crashes.

I think it's a good thing that the gamecube doesn't have these things. "Do one thing, and do it well".

And btw, Zelda 64 is the greatest game ever. ;)

Re:Consoles with OS's

[Osty]

I don't want consoles with operating systems, dvd players, harddisks, web browsers. That's what PC's are for. When I fire up my PS1 or N64, I expect them to load the games quickly, without crashes.

First and foremost, I've not had my XBox crash yet. Also, I don't expect it to crash any time soon, either. But believe what you will.

Consoles have had on-board "operating systems" for a while, now. Especially any console that uses CDs (though the old Sega Master System had a built-in game that would fire up if you turned it on without a cart). These on-board OSes are typically used for playing music CDs and managing memory cards. As far as DVD players go, what do you want instead? More low-capacity CD-ROM's? Some proprietary CD-ROM hack (like Dreamcast)? Or the coming standard of DVD? With the latter, at least you get high capacity (4.5GB per XBox game, for instance) and cheap production (because you can leverage existing DVD presses). Actually playing DVD movies is only optional, as with the XBox (it costs money to get a license, for CSS decoding for instance, and there's no point including that in the box itself unless you're aiming to be a DVD player. so make an addon, let anyone who wants to play DVDs buy that.) A hard disk is a good addition, imho, if only because it lets me save money on memory cards (I don't carry my memory cards to other people's consoles, so I don't care if the storage is local to my machine). Plus, it opens up the door for programming tricks like caching level data on disk rather than streaming it from DVD (no console has enough RAM to cache in RAM), thus decreasing load times and allowing for much larger levels. And finally, web browsers. Well, I'll agree with you there. But then again, if you're going to provide online capabilities for your console (Dreamcasts's built-in modem or XBox's built-in ethernet -- add-on's for PS2 and GC don't count, as no peripheral has ever been bought by more than 10% of a console's owners), you may as well give the users something to do with it until games exist that take advantage.

Where launch times are concerned, I've noticed that my XBox launches games much faster than my Dreamcast or PS1 (mainly because I don't have to sit through the Sony bios splash or the Sega bios splash). All I do is hit the eject button (thus turning on the system and instantly bringing up the menu, after an XBox splash), put in the DVD (in the process of getting the DVD out of the box and putting it in the tray, the XBox splash is done and it's waiting patiently at the menu), and close the drive. The game spins up in a second or two, and then it starts. Some games, like NFL Fever 2002 take the first boot to write some files to the hard disk, but this only takes a minute or so, and is well worth it afterwards -- NFL Fever 2002 only takes a scant few seconds to get to the "Press Start" screen after the first time running it. (and no, you don't have to reboot your XBox after NFL Fever installs files to the disk.) Anyway, comparing to N64 is a red herring, because you're talking about a cartridge system versus CD or DVD-based systems (Dreamcast, PS2, XBox, Gamecube). There's going to be lag time

Re:Consoles with OS's

[Namarrgon]

Absolutely! I'd never get a 3D graphics card for my PC - who wants to play games on a PC? That's what consoles are for! My PC is for installing operating systems & hard disks into, with a bit of web browsing. Oh, and for crashing & loading things slowly.

I'm also steering clear of TV tuner cards(convergence? who needs it), high-quality audio cards (that's what studios are for), DVD writers (hooray for Hollywood), recklessly fast CPUs & excessive memory - my PC is for web browsing.. ok, between you & me, I use it for email too, somtimes.

I think it's a scandal that these things are even offered for PCs. Don't people realise that they're not what PCs are about? Just do web browsing & do it well, I say. Everything else just distracts from a PC's true focus!

Re:Consoles with OS's

[Ziviyr]

I've seen my mailer take 1.1G RAM. Granted it was trying to send out a 700 meg file. But my excess of RAM really helped!

Re:Consoles with OS's

[squaretorus]

I couldn't agree more. Beyond the simple pleasure of hitting GO and playing within 30 seconds, theres the fact that all the NON techie people I know remember the Sega and Atari machines with fondness and stil use them, whereas they found the PC they bought soon started crashing, having problems with speed, and new games wouldn't work.

I think Nintendo have got the market sussed. I've got a DVD player - I dont need another. I'd bet most people are in the same boat - especially in a family setting where Dad wants to watch his work out DVDs and little Jimmy wants to play a game having it all happen in one machine sucks.

Remember - the world doesn't all live alone!

The Nintendo machine seems to be a TV game, rather than a next gen console to most people. This makes it MORE appealing, not less. And the wee plumber is so cute! And Yoshi! dont forget the power of Yoshi!

Re:Consoles with OS's

[Alpha_Geek]

When I fire up my PS1 or N64, I expect them to load the games quickly, without crashes.

You expect the PS1 to load games quickly!? ;)

Couple Observations

[creep]

I hopped in line at my local Wal-Mart at about 9:00 PM. They had 92 systems; I was number 52. Aside from the employee who messed up and started handing out tickets from the end of the roll when he got to me, I am a supremely happy camper and extremely pleased with the GameCube.

A few observations:

• The console setup menus look a lot cooler than the PS2 (I've not seen the X-box's yet)
• If you've not yet held the controller, just let me warn you that it will be hard to put it down. It is the single-most ergonomically-pleasing controller I've ever held (maybe that is because I have average size hands, but it is way nice).
• Rogue Leader just flat out rocks, no two ways about it.

I am totally pleased I bought a 'Cube, now I can't wait for Super Smash Bros. Melee to come out for it.

Re:Couple Observations

[Dacmot]

I personnally can't wait for the next GameCube's Metroid game. Aside from the gameboy color's version (don't have it and don't plan on it either) it's been an awful lot of time since Super Metroid which in my opinion is one of the best games of all time.

If ever I get money (I'm a poor student :o( I might get my hands on a game cube just for that game.

Hmm, titles speak...

[WWWWolf]

Compare:

"XBox Released" to "Blah, it just happened - who cares?"

and:

"GameCube Really And Truly For Sale" ... to "The day when our Lord and Savior shall return has come!"

Somehow, I get the impression that Slashdot is somewhat biased towards one of these systems =)

Anyway, I hope the console market will find a good direction too... and at least my sister will shut up when GC comes to Europe and she'll be able to get one =)

(And remember, verily, we shall speak like Shakespeare, for ever and ever...)

Re:Hmm, titles speak...

[die_rollerblader]

While Slashdot may or may not be biased away from the Xbox, the titles of the articles is not based around that.

The title "XBox released" is a general title doesn't seem like a dig at the console in anyway, while
the title "GameCube Really And Truly For Sale" is a play on the fact that some stores were already selling cubes and today is the official launch day, where it will be available everywhere (except where it is sold out).

Of course

[elite lamer]

of course they're going to be biased...Xbox is made by Microsoft, and Microsoft can do no good, remember? Classic /. mentality. Personally, I think the GameCube is a pile of crap.

In Tokyo the GC is just not moving

[Western Light]

It's kind of weird. The end of the first weekend it went on sale the GameCube was supposed to sell out. I went to a major retailer in Ikebukuro late Sunday evening and there was huge stack of the machines still available. Even weirder, only a few people were even bothering to look. Go figure. GameBoy Advance was hugely popular, however.

With the Cube, there were only three titles available as well.

Re:In Tokyo the GC is just not moving

[Nykon]

Keep in mind 2 things, most of the people buying gamecube are the hardcore nintendo heads. Nintendo relies on his patents (ie-pokemon ,mario bros,etc) and it's very loyal fan base to continue sales. Nintendo reps made it clear they are still marketing the younger crowd,a complete different crowd then xbox and ps2 market towrds,which is why most people don't see gamecube and xbox really competing in alot of way, plus the big selling point this season is gamecube is $100 LESS then the other consoles out. Which in this economy be a big seller to parents along with their kids who will want to upgrade their N64...

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[newbiescum]

Not to be stingy since I think the GameCube is a great buy considering the current and upcoming games, but it really is about $250+ just for the GameCube itself. Figure in a memory card ($20), S-Video/component cables ($50), extra controller ($30), taxes, and you're already up to $300. Then again, X-Box is around $450 for everything too (memory card, cables, extra controller, DVD remote to unlock a feature). PS2 is around $400 for everything now since there are cheaper memory cards and cables available. There are many hidden costs associated with just buying the console if you want its basic advertised capabilities.

Re:$90 for the Sims?

[Stone Rhino]

You're not paying for the game. You're paying for the operating system, office suite... technically, since most of its public license, you're really paying for the media, hardcopy manuals, and support.

GameCube does do standard DVD ...

[Western Light]

But it's called the "Q" and it will only be available in Japan. The idea is that the Americans would be too confused if there was a DVD capable GameCube and one that was not...

Thanks Nintendo! Doh!

If people were paying attn..

[sporty]

If people were paying attn to Nintendo, they might have known the systems, as the slashdot title suggests, were on sale a little earlier in some places. Two of my friends got one. One got one off of a voucher, found out they had extra since no one was asking, and told me and another friend. He got one, I'm gonna wait a little while when I can afford it.

Re:Mod parent down

[Spy Hunter]

Hey! This isn't offtopic. This really is a copied and pasted comment from another thread (Thanks to the AC above who found this link). I had Deja Vu just reading this comment. This isn't the first time ekrout's done this either. Some moderators around here need a little clue-sticking...

I've got GameCube

[Apreche]

I went to Media Play at 7 this morning. They told me that they would have 20 cubes and would open at 8. They opened at 9 and had 32 cubes. They didn't even sell them all at 9. Bought the system, luigi's mansion, and memory card. Going to buy smash bros. and another controller when the time comes.
Basically Luigi's mansion is great, it's very similar to all the 64 games like DK64, and Mario 64. The controller is great, the Z button is the only slight problem, but the L and R buttons make up for this in a big way. All analog buttons should be like that. Overall the cube kicks ass. It's really really small too. Incredibly convenient, powerful, I gotta go play some more of that. And uplink too.

wrong thread, sorry

[dollargonzo]

my bad, wrong thread!...ARGH

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[phaze3000]

$50 for an s-video cable? I'll sell you an s-video cable for $40!!

When you just make up figures like this it really makes you look rather stupid.

If you really want to make an economic argument for the X-Box, how about factoring in the fact it also plays DVDs?

Of course, gaming shouldn't be about economic arguments anyway; do you want to play games designed by Shiguru Miyamoto? If so - buy a Gamecube. If you don't really care about games but would like a little distraction, get yourself a PS One, or maybe Mandrake Gaming Edition.. :)

Re:Spectacular!

[Spy Hunter]

Hey! What is going on with the oodles of copycat posts all of a sudden? You guys are practicing plagarism, and I hope you get modded into oblivion. Just because the original post was good doesn't mean you should copy-and-paste it!

Re:Linux != Gaming....WHAT!!

[dollargonzo]

imho the main problem is that games are not developed for linux, and without linux in mind. some of course are good and brilliant exceptions for this, but that doesnt change the point. a better question i think, is how is linux NOT a gaming platform? stable, good memory management, support for LOTS of hardware? what else do you want... companies just need to start developing games for linux from the start!

Cool... and cool

[PhReaKyDMoNKeY]

An interesting thing to note about the Gamecube, relating to those problems XBox was having with overheating in display stands: this thing doesn't get hot. I was playing for a good 4 hours straight the other day (one of my shorter stretches) and I went up and touched the Gamecube, out of curiosity, and all I could find was a slightly warm spot on the bottom. The huge vents in the side do their job well. To be fair, it was prettly close to a window, but it's still insane compared to my N64 or PSX. Anyway, yeah.

BTW, Rogue Leader is the shizzy iznit. It's the closest game yet to put you right in the movies. A lot of the cool effects are pretty subtle, but then there's the whole strafing a Star Destroyer and being shot at by a bazillion turbolasers while being chased by what must be an entire squadron of TIEs (like 6 groups of 3 or 4). It's a Star Wars nerd dream come true.

Blather blather stop.

Re:Woo Hoo. Yet another console for my collection!

[fenix down]

Well, well, well, you're just the hyena's shit then, aren't you?

No, no, really, I am in TOTAL AWE of your plentiful bounty of consumer elecronics. I really mean it! I'm getting one gigantic chubby right now just thinking about it!
Oh, wow! You're from Europe? And you hate Osama bin Laden? I might just get a sex change right now so I can ask you to father my children! Just keep your masturbation between you and your palms when the kids are arround, ok?

(That enough tact for ya, Schnuckles?)

Nintendo might save Apple's bacon...

[tonywong]

I know this is offtopic, but the Gamecube is powered by a PowerPC (derivative), and is the closest thing that anyone else is making to Apple's machine. This may curb losses in the PPC desktop space and spur development on a next-generation high end desktop PPC, bringing back the heady days of three different PPCs being developed at once (603/604/620). The register's rumour-mongering aside, the Gamecube2 and Apple's G5 might have more in common than Apple would rather have us know.

Re:They are late

[Darth Maul]

I got in line at 5am to get one this morning. And I was 20th in line. Yes, there is a huge demand. Interestingly enough, the average age waiting in line with me was 20.

Who was it that said the Gamecube is only for kids?

The system itself just looks so cool, and I picked up Star Wars Rogue Leader. Amazing graphics. The light effects and self-shadowing are superb.

Sold out ...

[taniwha]

I found myself at my local CompUSA this morning looking for inkjet cartridges when it opened .... they were handing out numbers at the door nd when they ran out people were pissed ....

Alright!

[--daz--]

Now can I get a GameCube and, just like my Nintendo 64 get a plethora of games developed for it. Just a sample of the many games for the GameCube:

• Mega Super Mario
• Mega Super Mario II
• Mega Super Mario III
• Mega Super Mario Collection
• Mega Super Mario IV: The Adventures of Toad
• Mega Super Pokemon
• Mega Super Pokemon II
• Mega Super Pokemon III: Together with Mega Super Mario
• Mega Super Mario Party
• Mega Super Mario Party II
• Mega Super Mario Party III: Pokemon Edition
• Mega Super Zelda
• Mega Super Zelda II: The Quest for Pokemon
• Mega Super Mario Kart
• Mega Super Mario Kart II: The Quest for Zelda
• Mega Super Mario V: We're Running Out of Ideas
• Super Mario Classic
• Mario Classic Collection
• Zelda Classic Collection
• Pokemon Classic Collection

Oh yeah, and one or two 3rd party games, but that's about it.

No thanks, I'll be buying an XBox with real games and real creativity. I'm not blowing my money on another worthless, technologically inferior Nintendo product.

Re:Alright!

[Gizzmonic]

I'll be buying an XBox with real games and real creativity. I'm not blowing my money on another worthless, technologically inferior Nintendo product.

I'm biting the flaimbate here, but your point is well taken. After all, the X-Box has such creative offerings as:

• Tekken Breast Tournament (Dead or Alive 3)
  
• Super Mario Ugly (Oddworld)
  
• Generic Racer (Project Gotham)
  
• Unreal 2k2 (Halo)
  
• Sports Port (available on PS2 and Gamecube)
  

Seriously, besides Shenmue II (which is a pretty bad game if anything like the original), can you think of any title coming to Xbox in 2002 that you're actually looking forward to?

Even if Gamecube was all Mario and Zelda games (which it's not), it would still be a better buy than the Xbox...

Re:Alright!

[heyimamonk]

hey gizzmonic, never underestimate the power of denial. he "likes" holding the xbox's contoller like i would "like" to hold a plethra of hot coals. he "enjoys" the pretty textures as i would "enjoy" the texture of sandpaper on my rubbing against my testicles. yeah, the xbox, it's pretty creative... in the same way MS BOB was. oh wow, a p3 733! what's that you say, nvidia? i'm pretty impressed.. because my computer can't do that?! hey it's not that gamecube is a proprietary machine designed specifically for gaming and not running on top of some bug-ridden os... oh no wait... you know, it's funny because i always thought a game spawned a series because it was... what's the word... successful.

Re:Alright!

[mbishop]

Go buy your X Box. It's from the company who makes an OS and "strongly encourages" me to run:

Microsoft Internet Explorer
Microsoft Word
Microsoft Excel
Microsoft PowerPoint
Microsoft Encarta
Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft MSN Messenger
Microsoft Media Player
Microsoft MSN Explorer
Microsoft Money
Microsoft Exchange
Microsoft Hotmail

Catch my drift?

Re:Actually, I'd like to go X-country on my Bike..

[EchoMirage]

First of all, [off-topic] if you're going to go cross country on a bike, I hope you have the sensibility to do it on a good touring road bike and have a support crew ready; I'd love to do an epic ride, but I don't have the constitution or the bike for it, and I certainly wouldn't do it alone (a century [100 mile] sounds like a horribly long stretch to me, and my bike is an urban assault hardtail).

Secondly, on the matter of your preference vs. ours, realize that as a Slashdot editor, what you say (opinion or otherwise) gets taken at a higher level than what other people post here. If it's your opinion, delineate it as such (which you did, in this case) and be prepared for people to take strong disagreement with what you say.

Also, realize that your comparison is sort of apples to oranges. Maybe not to you, but to most people, there's a huge distinction between GameCube and Square-Boxy-Linux-Running-Computer.

To put it in bike terms, it's like comparing Lance Armstrong's 15-pound Trek OCLV road bike to Leigh Donovan's 45-pound Intense downhill rig. =)

Re:Mod parent down

[zhensel]

Ah, but he stuck quotation marks at the beginning and end of his post making it just fine :)

So is this version of the Sims unusual?

[Nailer]

Is the mnadrake gaming edition different from the regular versionf of the Sims? I.e, does Mandrake 8 Gaming Edition =

1. Mandrake + Ordinary Version of Sims + Transgaming WineX

2. Mandrake + WienX Winelib compiled version of the Sims?

I've heard reports that 2 is the case. If so can I play this version of the Sims on other distros? Can I obtain it seperately from Mandake?

On Gamecube and DVD:

[elohim]

I've heard a Nintendo PR person comment on the issue of exclusion of DVD. She stated that since the movie industry was in direct competition (?!) with the gaming industry, it would be foolish to include a DVD player. Perhaps they want people playing and buying more games and watching and buying fewer movies.

cross country by bike (largely off-topic)

[timothy]

The truth is, I haven't taken any rides over 20 miles, myself -- so going cross country (in the U.S.) is a bit of a pipedream right now :) If I do it, I would try to stay in a lot of towns across the country, by no means would I try to set any speed records!

On a recumbent bike though, I think this could be a good way to travel the country, especially once there's unmetered medium-bandwidth Internet service through Low-Earth-Orbit satellites. A low-powered laptop, a trickle-charger, enough clothes to get between towns, and some high-calorie food ...

As far as the comparison I made being Apples-to-Oranges, it might even be more like horses-to-snowboards. But unless context makes it illegal, immoral, dangerous or fattening, there's nothing wrong with a good Apples-Oranges comparison, IMO. I generally like the texture and flavor of oranges better than apples, but if sliced and baked into a crust, I'd prefer apples :)

Cheers,

timothy

Current generation consoles can kiss my arse

[Kris_J]

I bought my next console system and portable gaming device yesterday. A Nintendo 64 (+ 2nd controller and game) for A$20 and a Sega Game Gear (+ 3 games) for A$10. I've now got a whole new couple of platforms to find interesting titles for. And heck, down here in Australia the N64 is Nintendo's current offering through to the first half of next year some time. (When I can start hitting the bargain bins.)

Re:Current generation consoles can kiss my arse

[mister_jpeg]

Amen.
I just bought a Genesis and 28 games off Ebay for less than $40 US. Nothing is finer than 8 bit.

Re:Current generation consoles can kiss my arse

[Osty]

Nothing is finer than 8 bit.

The Genesis was 16-bit.

Just one question.

[GISboy]

Hypothetical of course;
If the family dog urinates on your X-box because you forgot to let him out, would it be proper to call it an XP box?

(SEG)

Re:They are late

[jjjack]

That's cool and all, but when I looked on Amazon.com this morning I noticed they had Gamecube bundles available to ship within 24 hours. When I went to the XBox bundles, it said "Currently Not Available." Gamecube didn't sell out in Japan, where Nintendo always does better than here, I highly doubt they can manage to sell out here. At the same time, I think this belief that a system can't succeed unless it sells out the first day is overdone and mostly an outcropping of the whole Playstation 2 launch. As long as they keep a constant supply of Gamecubes to stores and they sell reasonably well, I wouldn't worry about its stature. The XBox however has a bit more of a battle. It may be doing well now, but they're competing more directly with the PS2 than Nintendo, and at this point there has been a top quality five-star PS2 game coming out every week for the last five weeks. XBox has one big game, and I think it's mostly winning over PC gamers. I know of only one guy in my school who seems excited about XBox, and he's a PC gamer and I doubt he'll even end up buying one. Everyone else I know who likes games already has a PS2 and has spent all their money lately on Tony Hawk 3 and Grand Theft Auto 3. Then there's still Metal Gear Solid 2, SSX Tricky and Devil May Cry (which everyone sorta passed over awaiting GTA3). To top it all off, Sony's well on its path to reach its mark of 10 million systems sold in North America by March of '02. Sony definitely can't lose at this point because most gamers I know can't afford a new system right now, and well-polished games are finally being released for the PS2. Hopefully the XBox will peter out soon, like the Dreamcast because honestly as a system it just doesn't make sense, and hopefully the Gamecube will get some higher profile games soon, and come to a comfortable second especially when it's such a budget-conscious system.

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[newbiescum]

I was leaning towards component video cables that are a good length (Monster brand and all which is pretty much the only brand that stores like Best Buy place prominently next to the game consoles See this link for PS2 cables prices.). Plus those needing that 5.1 surround sound or whatever you have to get digital audio cables for the sound, so $50 for all of your cables isn't that bad.

Really, my point was that someone talking about the GameCube/PS2/X-Box only costing $199/$299/$299 respectively isn't covering all the costs. Sure that's what you get with one controller, but I don't think there are too many gamers that go without a memory card for instance, and for all those preaching the high quality and resolution video of the X-Box/GC, getting component video connections is a pretty big deal.

BTW, I do agree with you that gaming shouldn't be about economic arguments and I'm looking forward to the next Mario, Donkey Kong, and Zelda games, but felt the need to clarify my post.

recumbents x-country (very off topic)

[tono]

As someone who's ridden their fare share of bicycles; a Giant TCR, Jamis Komodo, BikeE, KHS downhill bike. I can honestly say the worst of those bikes next to the downhill bike to do a xcountry tour on would be the bikeE. They'd be fine over the great plains and whatnot but once you hit the Rocky or Appalachian Mountains you'd better hope you packed a good touring or road bike in your saddle bags. The hills on recumbents on a painful experience second only to kidney stones and childbirth, and going uphill on a downhill bike. If you want to go xcountry get yourself a good touring bike and forget about recumbents. They're for urban flatland cruising only.

Windows, Linux, and Gaming...

[Chasing Amy]

WinME creates problems with DOS games, being that it tries so hard to hide DOS from the user--even going so far as to have Autoexec.bat and Config.sys do nothing, while the "real" files were changed. Plus, all that System Restore crap that eats resources and space--there are ways to turn it off and reclaim your space, but why bother with that bloated cruft anyway?

If you simply HAVE to have WinME, at least install it with 98lite from http://www.98lite.net --it will let you keep Syetm Restore, Web Folders, and a thousand other pieces of bloat from ever getting installed. Despite some complainers who probably used it wrong, I have never had a problem with 98lite, and I use Windows in some very stressing ways.

However, for most things--especially gaming, particularly if you want to run DOS games--Win98SE is better than WinME. WinME has more recent drivers, but any self-respecting computer user downloads the latest drivers for all their hardware from the vendors' websites anyway. Again, installed with 98lite, you can remove a lot of the unnecessary crap, making it more stable and dependable.

I have no loyalty to Bill. I disapprove strongly of Microsoft's business practices. But I also am practical enough to use the right tool for the job, and if you want to game on PCs, that tool is Win9x. That will eventually change when newer games support only the Win2k/XP family, but for now, Win98SE or WinME (properly installed) are ideal. This is why I boot into Win98 for gaming, and have chosen Win98SE as the platform I'm going to use when I build an arcade machine a la MAME, but of course with multiple other non-MAME games available. My Win98SE machine can play all the newest PC titles, a few of which I actually have, almost all of the older PC titles going all the way back to early DOS, a lot of which I have (some of the oldest need a CPU slowdown program, but still run perfectly), most of the unique Mac games from the 68k days thanks to Basilisk II booting OS 8(B2 is also available primarily for Linux, but Linux won't run all those Windoze games, soo...), all the unique Linux games not requiring 3d acceleration thanks to VMware booting Linux Mandrake, all the unique BeOS games not requiring 3d acceleration thanks again to VMWare booting Be, most of the popular and many of the unpopular Playstaion 1 titles thanks to ePSXe and Bleem!, most of the best n64 games, SNES, NES, Genesis, 2600, etc. etc. games thanks to various good emulators, and of course the ubiquitous MAME for many many great arcade titles.

Win98SE is the most versatile solution for gaming. Linux's Win32 compatibility layer will never be perfct, and thus the majority of Windows games will never be playable on Linux, whether a Gaming Edition or not. IMHO, unless someone goes in the opposite direction and finds a way to run Windows' actual Win32 layer on top of Linux, with hardware accelerated drivers and all, it's just throwing dust into the wind to expend effort on getting Windows games to run on Linux.

If you hate Microsoft, pirate their OS for your gaming needs and have the best of all possible worlds--have the most compatible possible gaming machine, while not paying Microsoft anything, while having Linux for your real work. By all means, buy Linux games when and where available, to support gaming on Linux and try to help it become more viable and widespread. But don't deny yourself the world of games that will never play on Linux, even under emulation. You can if you want--but not me.

Re:They are late

[Osty]

Everyone else I know who likes games already has a PS2 and has spent all their money lately on Tony Hawk 3 and Grand Theft Auto 3. Then there's still Metal Gear Solid 2, SSX Tricky and Devil May Cry (which everyone sorta passed over awaiting GTA3).

Tony Hawk 3 and GTA3 will be making their way to the XBox soon enough, so while XBox owners (like me) may not be able to enjoy them yet, there's no point in picking up a PS2. MGS X (an XBox-exclusive MGS title) should be available Q1 2002 or so. SSX Tricky is an XBox launch title, and I heard Devil May Cry got bad 2/3rds into the game (bad enough that it seemed like a whole different game than what you paid $50 for). Anyway, my point? The XBox is competing more directly with the PS2, like you said. As such, many development houses are targetting both platforms. Given a couple months to ramp up, don't be surprised when the "hot new" PS2 games are released simultaneously on XBox (or even exclusively on XBox, as it's easier to program, and thus cheaper). Many dev houses have been burnt by the PS2 (lackluster title::box ratio at launch, arcane hardware, lack of a high-level SDK to get their first game or two out, thus forcing them to spend millions on in-house development even before they can get their first game out to make some money, etc). The next six months should be interesting indeed.

Physical space constraint

[yerricde]

Timothy saying he'd rather have M:GE instead of a GameCube would be like me saying I'd rather use my bicycle to travel from LA to Boston instead of taking a plane.

Mandrake Gaming Edition on the laptop a fellow already owns takes up less physical space than a GameCube console and a TV. It also costs less than a GameCube console and a TV.

(I bought a GameCube because I'm not as space-constrained as some college students.)

you may be right, but I might walk a lot :)

[timothy]

Steve Roberts does pretty well on recumbents on all sorts of terrain ... (of course, that's far from a normal case, and he has 108 or some other ridiculously high number of gears).

You're sure right that they're not easy to ride on hills, though, but if I were to ride x-country, I might just want to walk up (or hitch from drivers with pickups) the big hills :)

What I like about recumbents is in large part what they're not, which is hunch-inducing crotch-wedges.

Tim

Re:you may be right, but I might walk a lot :)

[tono]

If you get a bike that fits you it's neither hunch-inducing or painful on the genitals. Ahh well, to each his own.

Portland, Oregon Experiencces

[PotatoHead]

Went looking for early Gamecubes on Sat and did not have any luck. Heard a lot about XBox though.

Saw a number of display areas with Xbox turned way up, and PS2 off. Go figure.

Target had them opening day (of course) they handed out numbers so people would know if they were getting one or not. 45 people in line for Gamecube avg. age 20 something sales person told me there were about 8 for Xbox. Could be the neighborhood, but on Sat, there were many Xbox units for sale.

Target was giving away free game seats with your Gamecube purchase. They had the Xbox logo on them.

Re:Portland, Oregon Experiencces

[PotatoHead]

They were very nice morons though.

GameCube & DVD

[kidtexas]

No DVD makes sense. Do the math. $200 for a GC and $150 for a decent Sony DVD player = 350

300 for PS2 + 20-30 for controller = hobbled DVD player + PS2 for 325

300 for XBox and 30 for DVD add on = 330

for an extra $20, i will take a separate dvd player any day. And plus, it will be harder to pirate games for the GC, and Nintendo will guarantee that nobody uses their system just as a DVD player. They were using their heads....

About selling out

[dimator]

Remember that Supply/Demand is a ratio with 2 variables. If XBOX is sold out, it doesnt necesarrily mean that the demand was greater. It could mean that the supply was not enough, and from the reports I've heard, they did not make enough XBOX's by a long shot (something like 300,000?). Nintendo, on the other hand, is planning to ship 1.1 million units by the year's end.

As an example: I was in both XBOX and GC overnight lines. The XBOX sold out, with 21 or so people who had camped out. The GC did NOT sell out, but had ~35 people camped out.

PS2 DVD capabilities...

[SuperKendall]

Though I dislike the limited set of control options, I've played a hundred or so DVD's now on the PS2 and had only one problem - Gladiator seemed to have the audio get out of sync with the video.

I restrted the PS2, and it worked fine after that - ever since then I always restart the PS2 after I inster a disc and have yet to have another issue. That was with the original launch drivers, I only recently got the remote and updated PS2 drivers.

One of the DVD's I've played was X-Men - what sort of problems did you see?

Apart from that issue, I agree with your assesment of the wisdom in selecting the non-standard format. I think $100 less is quite a huge advantage, and as you say most people buying consoles probably already have DVD players (though buying the PS2 allowed me to give mine to a relative who was without).

Small problem with that...

[diadem]

No matter how advanced linux is, you can't lay down on your couch, grab a couple controlers, shove in a game, and play with friends while drinking and eating.

Re:what makes the game cube so great?

[randomgeek]

Then again, X-Box is around $450 for everything too (memory card, cables, extra controller, DVD remote to unlock a feature).

I'm not sure I've ever heard a hard drive called a memory card.

Re:Mod parent down

[nuntius]

Simply putting quotes around something is not sufficient.

To avoid plagarism, one must also give proper credit to the author by clearly displaying his name.

Average age

[EnglishTim]

Remember that most parents wouldn't let their children wait outside a game store at 5am with 300 odd bucks in their pocket...

More likely it's "no HD, no Ethernet"

[Thag]

No DVD in the GameCube allows them to be $100 cheaper than both the PS2 and the Xbox.

More likely the $100 difference is from no hard drive and no Ethernet.

This isn't a bad thing: the XBox hard drive seems to me like it could be the source of all kinds of problems when it a) gets filled up b) gets fragmented c) fails or gets corrupted d) gets used to patch games that were released broken. I couild be wrong, but I'm certainly waiting to see before I buy.

Ethernet would have been cool, but OTOH, I have the Ethernet card for my Dreamcast and have never hooked it up.

Jon Acheson

I wonder....

[PHanT0]

Will Tom's Hardware (_PLEASE_) do a round-up of the three... I'd liek to seee head-to heads and specs on all three...

It'd take hours to do the research on your own.... maybe I'm just lazy though. *sigh*

Nintendo - the secret's in the software

[cmilkosky]

I'm one of those geeks that stood in line at 2am Sunday morning to make sure I got a Gamecube at 8am at the local Target. I was primarily buying it for the kids (an excuse), but I am a gamer myself, having bought the PS2 the year before in the same manner.

Well, I got one and damn it kicks serious ass. Very happy with it. When I got the PS2, I was happy because the graphics were pretty nice, but I wasn't too pleased with the games. Not too exciting. The Gamecube on the other hand - I bought two games - Luigi's Mansion and Star Wars - Rogue Squadron 2, and both of the games are instant classics for me.

SWRS2 - My fave so far. Drop dead gorgeous. It sounds funny, this game really puts you in the Star Wars atmosphere. The details are incredible, and the sound is awesome. Most of the game looks as good or better than the movies!

Luigi's Mansion - The kid's and wife's favorite, I love it though too. It's in that Mario-esque atmosphere, and is another terrific game. I wish I was playing it now. Extremely addictive. Lots of puzzles and good humor. This is one damn good game.

There's a theme here though - Nintendo's secret to success isn't in hardware - it's in producing top quality games. I don't give a damn about whose system has more horsepower than whose. I just want good games. Sadly, I have to say the only game in my PS2 library that I really really enjoy is Gran Turismo 3 and well maybe the Star Wars Star Fighter I rented... But at release, the PS2 kinda had a less than stellar software lineup. Only now are the hot games coming and it's been quite awhile. FF10 and Metal Gear Solid 2 I have high hopes for, but I have to say I may be digging into my pocket more for the Gamecube games if the PS2 lineup doesn't get better. I must say though - it is extremely handy having an extra DVD player around. Don't get me wrong - I think it still is a great box - it just needs some games. On the other hand, Luigi and SWRS2 are awesome release games for the Gamecube. 5 out 5 stars.

One last note - I had NO idea how *small* the Gamecube is! I'm very impressed. And the controllers are great. They took a lesson from Sony and did them even better.

Chris

Re:They are late

[Nykon]

actually the best buy near my house had people camping out starting around 4am this weekend when it came out. Same with a couple other Best Buys near here. (Im in Northern VA,US)

Re:They are late

[Niksie3]

Damn I was uninformed...Thanx to everyone who proved me wrong.... But I don't see how this is moderated flamebait

Collecing

[cyberbob2010]

I just recently started collecting consoles. All kinds I wanna get them all. I have 64, genesis, snes, nes, GMB, 3do, dreamcast. There are so many more out there. if you have one of them and are willing to sell please contact me.

the power of denial

[heyimamonk]

never underestimate the power of denial. he "likes" holding the xbox's contoller like i would "like" to hold a plethra of hot coals. he "enjoys" the pretty textures as i would "enjoy" the texture of sandpaper on my rubbing against my testicles. yeah, the xbox, it's pretty creative... in the same way MS BOB was. oh wow, a p3 733! what's that you say, nvidia? i'm pretty impressed.. because my computer can't do that?! hey it's not that gamecube is a proprietary machine designed specifically for gaming and not running on top of some bug-ridden os... oh no wait... you know, it's funny because i always thought a game spawned a series because it was... what's the word... successful.

Re:so stupid...

[heyimamonk]

i run windows but i'm just curious... why do your hot dinner dates consist of feeding the family pet?

Re:It is... i knew friday

[Transcendent]

Actually it is bagles... its a new chain that sells bagles. What are bagles? Well they're umm.... uhh..... ok.... I admit it.... I can't spell...