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Raisethefist.com Raided
mfb and others wrote in about a raid on the operator of raisethefist.com last week. It was first reported on Indymedia.org here and here, followed by an LA Weekly article. By far the best news piece so far is this one from Newsbytes.
...plus, I never trust a media outlet who can neither spell, nor use spellcheck. ;)
"They sorounded the house with guns before raiding it." - RTF Founder
So now the way to get a story posted is to spam it offtopic repeatedly first? Yum, the new slashdot.
OK, this guy says that he was busted because the government didn't like his opinions, but in fact he had been cracking web sites and putting in that troop.cgi thing. Somehow that doesn't sound like an opinion to me. There's also the question of bomb-making information which is potentially thornier, but also isn't really opinion (at least, not opinion about globalization - opinion about bomb policy I suppose might be a bit more debateable).
The site seemed to be advocating the use of violence to solve means. Information on how to cause havok and insitute anarchy doesnt sit well with me and I dont seem why this is an issue.
If the site was about peaceful protest, eg marches and sit-ins then I'd have a problem with it being shut down. But it wasnt about peaceful protest from what I can gather. So I beleive the investigation is fully justified.
In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
...
"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think," he said.
No, you incredibly idiotic dipshit. You are going to be Bubba's bitch because you hacked government websites, and in fact admitted it. Please, don't try to defend him -- it's guys like this that give us a bad name and deserved to be ostracized from the community at large.
"You're never ready, just less unprepared."
as evidenced by his not being either dead or in jail.
And poof, overnight, our world has changed into this.
Sci-Fi is coming true, yeah?
I don't see it changing anytime soon, either..
Terrorists want to kill us all. Planet Corporate wants to own all knowledge and charge us for it. Government wants to label everything that is not consistent with the propaganda being spouted on CNN as "Evil" and throw us all in jail.
Anyone have any paranoid predictions they'd like to share where this is all going?
No, kiddies, I don't think Linux will save you.
mje0w!!!1!
"People can rant and rave on the Internet all they want, but when they cross the line of calling people to action to violently overthrow the Constitution of the United States, they have a problem," said McLaughlin.
So when just another lone hacker kid defaces five Web sites, it justifies "surrounding and raiding [the] house with machine guns, shotguns, bullet-proof vests." Being labeled a hacker (correctly, this time) is really getting to be as dangerous as being called a child molester.
The Gardener
--
According to the FBI, Austin allegedly defaced at least five commercial Web sites since 1999 using the nickname "Ucaun." On three of the sites, Austin left behind a hacking program named troop.cgi that was designed to attempt to log in to a computer operated by the U.S. Army, the FBI affidavit stated. In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
Okay, so this guy was an admitted website defacer who posted denial of service tools on victim websites and knew it was illegal but did it anyway.. That he was doing it for some "anticorporate revolution" doesn't matter one iota.
But what I really loved was his comment, later in the article:
"But how many of us are really willing to engage in such an intense form of warfare through bauds and wires? Who's got the balls? Who's willing to sacrifice everything?" said the page.
Who indeed? Let's start with this numbskull. I say throw the book at him.
sulli
RTFJ.
NEWSFLASH raisethefist.com is running out of current allocated bandwidth. In just two days we have used over 130MB of data transfer. The limit is 512MB per month. That means we will run out of bandwidth in less than a week. If we do, the site will be shut down indefinitely. We need to move to another web host in order to keep the site up and updated with official information for its visitors. If you would like to donate space, the e-mail contact information is on the bottom of this page.
I think it's a bad idea to link directly to his site.. We could end up costing him a lot of money in bandwidth terms.
Thanks to Archive.org, we can use the Internet Wayback Machine to view the site: Jan 23 or other days
woof.
Move along now, nothing to moderate here.
Here's the content of the article, in case it gets slashdotted.
In a case that may test limits on Internet free speech in the wake of Sept. 11, armed federal agents last week raided the home of a Los Angeles teenager suspected of hacking into several Web sites to post anarchist messages and using his own site, Raisethefist.com, to publish bomb-making information.
Sherman Martin Austin, 18, is believed to have violated federal computer fraud and abuse laws, as well as statutes prohibiting the distribution of bomb-making information, according to an FBI affidavit.
FBI agents conducted the raid on the afternoon of Jan. 24 at the Sherman Oaks residence owned by Austin's mother after receiving a federal warrant. The agents seized several computers and documents, according to an FBI spokesperson.
In an interview Wednesday, Austin told Newsbytes he was interrogated for more than six hours but has not yet been charged with any crimes.
According to Austin, all of the site's files, which were dedicated to "the anti-corporate globalization movement," were lost as a result of the raid. The site had received approximately 700 unique visitors each day, he said.
"I think they are a bunch of cheap shots, surrounding and raiding my house with machine guns, shotguns, bullet-proof vests. They had more artillery than they use with wanted gang felons or raids on drug operations," said Austin.
Matthew McLaughlin, a representative of the FBI's Los Angeles field office, confirmed that agents who conducted the search were heavily armed.
"This is Los Angeles after all. We always go in to protect ourselves. We don't go in with slingshots," said McLaughlin.
A message at the Raisethefist.com site today described the raid and said the incident was proof that "anyone actively disagreeing with policies of the U.S is now automatically rendered a 'terrorist' in the eyes of national security."
Following the Sept.11 attacks on America, Congress passed the USA Patriot Act, which expand the ability of law enforcement to hunt for terrorists.
"People can rant and rave on the Internet all they want, but when they cross the line of calling people to action to violently overthrow the Constitution of the United States, they have a problem," said McLaughlin.
According to the FBI, Austin allegedly defaced at least five commercial Web sites since 1999 using the nickname "Ucaun." On three of the sites, Austin left behind a hacking program named troop.cgi that was designed to attempt to log in to a computer operated by the U.S. Army, the FBI affidavit stated.
In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
Copies of several of the defaced pages are accessible using the cache stored by the Google search engine. The defacements contain white and red text on a black background, with the title "Hacked by the UCA - Underground Confidential Association" and a verbose screed about overthrowing the government and building a "New World Order."
According to the FBI, Austin operated Raisethefist.com as well as a site for his fledgling Web development business, 2CP.com, from computers in his home connected to the Internet by DSL.
Copies of the site's pages cached by Google include instructions on how to make explosives from pipes, fertilizer, and match heads.
In the interview, Austin said he did not write the bomb instructions but instead copied the pages from another site.
Another page, entitled "Hacking," notes that the Department of Defense and other government agencies are dependent upon information technology and are therefore vulnerable to computer attacks.
"But how many of us are really willing to engage in such an intense form of warfare through bauds and wires? Who's got the balls? Who's willing to sacrifice everything?" said the page.
The domain registration record for Raisethefist.com lists Austin as the administrative, technical, and billing contact for the site. Austin said he "made up" the name listed as the site's registrant, Joseph Parker, "for security reasons" and noted that he has received threats because of the site's anti-government message.
According to Austin, he has been targeted by the government simply because he advocates social justice.
"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think," he said.
Raise The Fist is at http://www.raisethefist.com .
Reported by Newsbytes, http://www.newsbytes.com .
(20020130/WIRES TOP, ONLINE, LEGAL/FBI/PHOTO)
-- When a fool hears of the Tao, he will laugh out loud.
So this guy is actively cracking and defacing websites, including attempting to break into Army systems, and he's whining about being arrested?
Next person who whines that he's the victim of the fascist Ashcroftian regime gets beat over the head with a clue-by-four. I'd be pretty pissed if he was hacking my site "so he could get his message out." What a loser.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
This guy is not a martyr. He was stupid and chose to piss in the US gov's wheaties. If you disagree with policies in the US we can still voice or beliefs freely. What noone is allowed to do and should not do is encite a riot. He was trying to do just this. He has messages claiming for everyone to unite and overthrow the US gov. Does that make him a threat? YES. Should the gov have reacted to him as a threat, YES. Did they need to go in their fully armed to and ready for battle? Yes. Police have information that they are to bust someone who has attacked multiple sites and attempted to attack military targets, plus he has been trying to get other people to use violence and weapons to overthrow the gov. He also instructs how to create bombs and other weapons on his site. They had to assume he would be armed. The only way to deal with that is with overwhelming force.
As long as the go ahead and press charges in a timely manner the gov has done the right thing in this case.
I am 31337 or something.
Before Slant-Six sank, they had an interesting article on how to confuse the future terrorists. Put up anarchist sites, but provide bogus info. Setup bomb-making instructions that make silly putty or something. The more sites like that that pop-up, the less likely a terrorist will discover the correct bomb-making papers. The point is to fight terrorists by making the internet a place that they can't trust...
I wonder how the FBI would react to those kinds of sites...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
a "web site defacer" how evil .... let's throw the book at him .... kinda like they did to Martin Luther
In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
OK, OK, let's get this straight before a huge anarchist/hacker/terrorist flamewar gets started. The kid has the right to say what he wants, no matter what it is. He has the right to even say bad things about America, that's the beauty of our government, and no, the terrorist attacks haven't changed that. What he doesn't have the right to do is actively organize counter-US operations, at whatever scale. This idiot not only hacked government websites, but then promptly admitted doing so. He's going to be tossing salads for the next few years and it's strictly because the little shit deserves it, not because of some anti-freedom government movement.
~ now you know
That would be correct. The United States of America is all for free speech. It's also a democracy, where you can elect a new government to install new laws if you disagree with the current state of affairs. Elected officials (who presumably represent a majority of the populace) will eventually populate the group responsible for interpreting the Constitution, the Supreme Court. Therefore, in a theoretical sense (before you start screaming about corporate america owning the politicians), the people do control the government.
By ignoring the political route and espousing the virtues of a violent overthrow, you have now entered the realm of "terrorist" or "freedom fighter." In a country where the freedom of speech is guaranteed in the very Constitution you want to do away with, you are more than likely to be considered a terrorist. And frankly, I would agree with that assessment.
Here's a suggestion: if you don't like the system and don't feel like changing the system, take your bombs and move to Columbia or the middle east.
---
Gort! Klatu Barata Nikto!
Carnegie Mellon University
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think,"
Wrong. His actions include defacing websites and distributing information on how to make bombs. Either of those are crimes and punishable by law. He's not some little pacifist sitting in a corner getting picked on by The Man.
If you want to find a poster boy for "Thought Police Victim" find a better specimen.
Computer cracking was illegal well before 9-11.
From the newsbytes article: "In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out." So he acknowledges he does something illegal, and then complains about being arrested? SWAT team may be overkill for an 18 punk hacker, but then again there were instructions on bomb making materials. In the heightened state of alert for all police forces since Sept 11, they'd be foolish not to be prepared. People may try to simplify this to a "free speech" or "destruction of the free internet" argument, but I think this case is pretty much cut and dried.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Looking at what info I found on a mirror of the old site (already down im afraid). It looks as if they were more than a tad on the extremist side. For one he knowingly admits to circumventing the law in order to "get his message out" that was his first mistake. Second he appears to have information that more or less (at least implies) that the goverment needs to be overthrown (not changed). The diffrence being overthrowing consitutes violence where changing implies through voting and so forth. Sounds to me like this bust was a good thing. Not a bad one
Am I lying when I tell you that im telling the truth? Or am I telling the truth when I say that Im lying?
Can you say "offsite backups"?
Though, I will admit that "FBI Raid" is not really one of the contingencies that I'm specifically thinking of when creating my company's database backup plan...
------------
Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
OK, he broke the law, he got arrested. If he had been wearing a flag shirt and reading the Wall Street journal, none of us would have seen this. Since his views are anarchistic, he's "being censored" or repressed or whatever media buzzword you want to use to make up a reason to run a story that doesn't matter. Throw him in jail and move on.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
Is it really any more complicated than that?
Yeah, they're using more muscle than what they needed. They really didn't need to seize all of his political literature, unless maybe they consider it evidence of his highly anti-establishment attitude.
It all seems a bit extreme. But didn't he break the law? Isn't the law a good one? I mean, how many of us really want our neighbors and other assorted yokels having the knowledge to construct bombs out of legally available materials? I'm not so sure I want that available to everyone.
It's one thing to have and even construct guns. Bombs are a whole new level though. It may infringe on his free speech rights, but his free speech can easily lead to depriving someone else (or many others) of their lives.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
is raid google to get the cached version of the site as well.
neener!
Indie rock lives! b-side!
This is verging on redundant, but was any of this monitoring done with a warrant? Is the US Government allowed unfettered ability to monitor (or intercept!) network traffic? This doesn't seem right.
Guvegrra?
it is interesting that, as noted in the newsbytes articles, the scale of the assault was far greater than might have been expected given the 'crimes'. why do you need fbi, police, etc. in such large numbers to take down a cracker?
i think this raid speaks either to the hold that business has on our (usian) law enforcement agencies or to the fact that he truly was being targetted for his viewpoints as well.
go get it
Ok,
This brings up a hard pill for me to swallow. On one hand, Freedom of Speech is protected. I agree with this. However, what happens when your freedoms are put in jeopardy because of information out there like this? Some information just shouldn't be out there. There is NO reason someone should be posting how to make a bomb on the web. If you can find a reason they should, please enlighten me. (Freedom of Speech aside, I am referring to real, honest to God reasons for this being out there)
thanks
Sent from your iPad.
I don't understand how people who are so 'smart' try to disseminate a message so stupidly.
Case is point:
'Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.'
and
'"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think," he said. '
If he's smart enough to collect this kind of following, why is it that he ISN'T smart enough to figure out how to peacefully make his desires come about?
And why isn't he smart enough to realise that by calling attention to himself THIS way will just get him squashed.
America is a pretty cool place. Pretty big things have been changed in pretty peaceful ways. It also has the resources and desire to prevent folks like this from causing [much] damage.
It's one thing to get your way by trying to break a toy, it's another thing entirely to redesign the environment so that the toy works for you. (and all that 'reed bending in the breeze' Kung Fu crap.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
While the message on raisethefist.com says that they need $300 to get their web site back, you can still view much of it by going to archive.org's version of raisethefist.com. Google cache was able to find their pipe bomb directions web page.
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
1. Buy a PC
2. Install Windows, any version will do
3. Wait.
4. For a really unstable bomb, install many packages of Microsoft software.
but who can take seriously any person who still lives at home with mommy? He has no conception of what it means to be an adult, so I can't imagine how I'm supposed to take him seriously as a source of political information. I'm not saying people who live with their parents shouldn't have political leanings and causes, but I have trouble taking him seriously if doesn't even have to earn a living. (Which i guess gives him time to run this website, so maybe this is the way to go).
Then again, I'm pretty much in agreement with his comments about the current climate for those of thus dislike the actions of the United States. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of this as days pass.
Or he could be in a cage in gitmo right now awaiting his state-sanctioned murder.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
If i was to walk around handing people pamphlets on how to create bombs and encourage everyone to kill everyone that disagrees with me, i would be arrested and rightfully so.
If i put up a web site that tells people how to make bombs and encourage everyone to kill everyone that disagrees with me, suddenly i am a poster boy for free speech?
There seems to be more than one issue here, the first being a criminal act (i.e., defacing public websites) and the second being distributing information that has been criminalized. Is it in the interest of the FBI to prosecute people who deface websites? Of course. By defacing a companies website, you are violating thier right to free speech. Whether or not it's done in protest of a given organization or to prove that one is 37337 is not the concern of the law.
However, we have entered a period of American history where the government is taking to criminalizing information more and more. Information on making bombs? Not exactly a healthy pursuit. Information on making Meth? Ditto. However, as people become more and more accustomed to this kind of censorship and as we are asked to question less and less the people that are "protecting us from terrorists" we might just find ourselves with a constitution that has be rendered moot by the people who are allegedly protecting it.
Advocating violence like this has always been illegal. Read a history book before you go off spouting inane "Why are they taking my rights away?" bullshit. It's ok to stand up at a klan rally and say, "These niggers are ruining our lives." It's not ok to continue by saying "So let's string em all up!"
Posted on the raisethefist.com site:
"anyone actively disagreeing with policies of the U.S is now automatically rendered a 'terrorist' in the eyes of national security."
Perhaps that's so, but I'd venture to say that those disagreeing with the policies of the US and publishing information on how to make bombs are more likely to get noticed than those who simply disagree. They claim that "The sysop of this site does not endorse nor use any method of violence" but bomb-making and anti-government rhetoric on the same site are at the very least an implicit threat.
IANAL, so I can't speak to the legalities of it. But I know that if I were a FBI agent, I too would have wanted armor when I went in there.
I might be a little jaded against the world, but sites like this are ludicrous. I'm glad that he got raided and I do hope they arrest him. He's obviously an ignorant child who wants attention, and possibly to hurt people. These are the kinds of people we do not want free in the United States.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
If you don't agree with the laws that he broke, that fine... let's discuss that. But here's my argument (see my sig)... I should be able to do just about anything on my PC, but when I start doing things to OTHER people's machines, that's where I am for laws.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
Good grief. what has happened to America? can our young not at least TRY to learn spelling?
"They sorounded the house..."
"They had more artillary then they..."
"..founder approached the door were 2 FBI..."
"...was currently being ran within...."
"..extensive government monitering"
"recieved over 100...."
"...continuesly monitered the site on a daily basis"
"Even government's from the UK..."
I'm not even going to comment on his grammar.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This guy deserves everything he gets. What, he can't handle a little publicity? Doesn't he want to SACRIFICE for the cause?
sulli
RTFJ.
Uh, no. He's whining about having his house and street covered by hoards of armed agents.
Just send the police after the teenager, no need to make it a national ordeal.
Okay, the guy admitted to hacking web sites, but says it's okay because it was the only way to get his message out. Yeah, right. I wonder how he'd feel if I hacked raisethefist.com to get my message out...
Free speech is being able to say what you want, not having the right to delete others' opinions.
There is a very obvious line where "free speech" is no longer important. When you are actively inciting people to violence against each other, it becomes criminal.
We also have the right to pursue happiness, but if I'm only happy killing and raping people, I certainly can't do that.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously a site that claims it was under fire for being "progressive" and for creating the stir they claim it was causing, when it's that badly written. (That is, if the current "explanation" page is indicative of the site as a whole.) I can understand being shaken up by what happened, but the word choice, etc., evident on the site - well, it's like running fingernails along a blackboard to anyone who's educated and has a command of the English (or, if you prefer, American) language. I always thought intelligence, or at least the ability to come off as a polished writer or orator, was essential for raising awareness. (Evidenced by Martin Luther King, Jr., others.) But I digress.
Who wants $300 to run rsync?! If it's bandwidth they're worried about, burn the site to CD-R and mail it; total cost, $5.
geek. lawyer.
According to Austin, all of the site's files, which were dedicated to "the anti-corporate globalization movement,"
So while he's against corporate globalization, he has no problem with violating my privacy by display a doubleclick.com advertising banner on his site along with one of the stupid pop-down X10 windows...
I would be the first to run to this guy's defense for posting bomb-making techniques or anything of that nature but since he broke into computer systems I just simply can't condone his actions.
It's funnny though because he justifies breaking into a computer system (and thereby, violating someone's rights) because he's spreading a message against a government who are violating peoples rights.
I think his mommy forgot to tell him that two wrongs don't make a right...
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Play George Bush the fighter pilot trying to shoot Osama bin laden. There so many angles that would have done much better. So instead he thinks to do things like bombs and stuf like that.
Heck even stuff like WhiteHouse.ORG is much more effective, even if in questionable taste. The opportunity is boundless if you have that talent. Which this kid probably did not.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
He deserves what he has got so far and whatever may come in the future!
Newt-dog
My Doctor prescribed daily nasal saline irrigation, hehe
This site and this guy claims to support free speach. But - being somewhat of an anarchist - he forgets that free speach doesn't mean that everything everyone says about anything to anybody should be free and up for grabs. Cracking is never right, nor is breaking the law. But then again, he's an anarchist who will go to jail for his acts, not his thoughts/belives. like he claims he will.
Regarding the FBI raid, they must be high on something themself. 2 officers with handguns and a solid kick on the door would probably have been more appropriate.
Look a monkey!
I remember something that David Dellinger (peace activist since WW II) said on the topic of weapons and activism. Essentially the army is way to well armed to confront in an armed fashion. Possesion of weapons will only give one a false sense of power and leave one ripe for arrest or extermination. According to what he said, the FBI would actually try to get activists interested in weapons in order to have something to come down on them on. Kinda like the big guy who can kick your ass as soon as he goads you into taking the first punch.
Its almost as if armed drug dealers run this country and try to control us with the things they do best. Anyone know if this years Afghan smack has made it to the US yet. I'll bet its gonna get real cheap soon.
Vivez sans temps mort
Law enforcement agencies will always bring an incredible excess of force down on a potentially hostile target in order to apprehend him. This is done to ensure the safety of both the target and the officers involved. If the target thinks that he has no chance to defend himself, then he will usually give up without a fight. Personally, I think that this, and anything else that protects our officers, is a damn good idea.
This story was front page on k5 a few days ago; I only post this notice because there was some interesting commentary along the lines of what we're already seeing here now. You might want to surf over there and see what the folks at k5 have been saying.
2
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/1/26/112847/74
Cheers,
-Aaron.
student of animation and the fine arts
The Afghan drug (and food) crops dried up in a drought, and the Taliban forbade the growing of drug crops to give more useful farmland over to the growth of food. I think this was in 1999 or 2000, but I'm not sure.
As you pointed out later in your post - he also defaced websites and distributed DDoS tools. That's what he's going down for. Americans are quite free to publish the Anarchist's Cookbook, Mein Kampf, or Das Kapital on their own websites.
The right to swing your fist ends at the nose of the guy you're swingin' it at. Similarly, this skript kiddie's right to raise his fist ends at the router separating his network from the rest of the world.
If it is my opinion that it is OK for me to break into your home and beat your family, would you see my point as well? He has no argument to be seen.
Cracking without permission is trespassing. Having an opinion and acting on it are two very different animals, as you point out.
If all he was doing was advocating breaking and entering, and/or dissemenating bomb making information, the issue would be messy..
But, especially now, preaching civil disobedience and informing people how to make bombs, is likely to get one branded a Terrorist. Not that it's right, but it's a fact.
And as you point out, your right to free speach ends when you exploit my means of speaking to do it.. In this case, the guy is toast.. But, by extension of the principle, the Government is above the Law, and this is sure to become a problem if it isn't already.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Actually, I was quoting something I read on the site that may or may not be true. IANAL and all that. Let us know when you find it.
BTW - There are other laws against publishing materials that clearly do not (according to the courts violate) the 1st amendment. How else do corporate trade secrets and national top-secret materials avoid getting published? Yeah, that's an obvious case, but it just points out that the 1st amendment is not an absolute, despite what every ignoramus who doesn't know any better will tell you.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
He's asking for $300 on his site to pay some web hosting company for a copy of it. If he truely cares about his convictions, why not get it for free off of the wayback machine? Could be tedious, but it's better than nothing.
Distributing information, as long as it does not violate the DMCA, is protected by the US constitution. That includes information on how to construct bombs. For crying out loud, you can borrow books at the library that show you how to build pipe bombs.
Defacing websites on the other hand...different story.
Who was it that said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?"
Re:I wonder how the FBI would react to those kinds of sites...
2 09&mode=thread) to teach naive investors, then why would the FBI not create fake websites, listservs, and even hacking tools? We know about programs like Magic Lantern and Carnivore, but how many are out there that we do not know about?
When the SEC is creating fake investment websites (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/30/1933
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Although our country is great and has laws to provide free speech, it's important to understand the limits of some of these rights. To put it another way, YOUR rights end where MY rights begin. Does the Constitution protect those who speak out against things they believe are wrong? Yes. Does the Constitution protect those who protest the actions of our government in order to create positive change? Yes. Rights like these are what make America great.
However, even though YOU have the right to free speech, I also have rights. I have the right to live in a peaceful country. I have the right to go out in public without fearing for my safety.
How do these correspond to this particular case? By protesting, speaking out, or creating a web page which promotes PEACEFUL change of government policies, this individual is engaging activities which fall under his right to free speech.
However, by posting instructions on how to create devices which injure innocent people and advocating a violent overthrow of the U.S. Government, this individual is NOT exercising his right to free speech. Rather, he is INFRINGING upon my right to live in a peaceful society.
To put it another way:
* Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins
This is an article where my sig speaks for itself.
Hammer of Truth
I've been reading this sig for quite a few messagtes now, and I finally got it.
As they say in Massachusetts, "Light Dawns on Marblehead."
Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
You mean I run some really cool skripts as long As I set TTL to 0?
The articles never say which websites he defaced. WHat if he defaced taliban.com? Would he NOT be in this mess? If he defaced myprettykitty.com, would he be in the same boat? Only ONE article mentioned he had an anti corporate/globalist site. The articles were very vague, and I do not feel I am at liberty to judge him yet as there is not enough information in which to do so.
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Looks like the FBI will be raiding the federal government next, then.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
of his views, while he is being mounted like a horse!
Well, OK, I think it matters.
There are lots of articles on Slash about different countries taking away their citizens' rights, based on the assumption that if some information's on the net it's far more dangerous than if it's simply in print.
This is a tech-savvy activist, using the internet as his tool to get his message out to the world. Bravo.
However he crossed the line a number of times by hacking other machines, using a pretty lame-ass excuse: "I had to get my message out!" Sure, Charlie, I have a feeling you're preaching to the converted.
I had an argument with a coworker last summer during the WTO conference (or was it G8? I can't remember). An anti-corporate web site was giving out information and software to stage a "virtual sit-in" to protest against companies involved. Basically, they were advocating a gigantic DDOS against a certain few companies, including Cisco, one of our clients.
He thought it was cool, I thought the entire thing was 100% lame: WTF do they hope to accomplish my not letting me do my work? Are they somehow more important than me? Does their "message" get out by DDOSing a few companies? No. They'd be better off by actually writing letter to the companies they hate, but of course, that takes actual time and effort. It takes little to download someone else's work (the DDOS programs) and run it, then go back to whatever you were doing, thinking you've accomplished some great blow for democracy.
I don't buy it one bit: it's lame, far too easy and cowardly.
So I propsed that on the date and time they went to put up their links page to all the DDOS software, we hit THEM first, in a pre-emptive strike, just to give 'em a taste of their own medicine and see how much they like. But we didn't. I would have had a good laugh though, I just didn't want to sink to their chickenshit level.
Ah well. I'm glad this guy got arrested for his hacking crimes, I just hope they don't pull a Mitnick and give him his fair chance. Doubt it.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
There's a difference between publishing chemical formulas that take education to read vs. publishing bomb construction instructions. As a chemist you might know that "if I mix this and this, then light this, and run away, it will go boom". And you would know that because of your hard won knowledge. Telling every joe on the street how to do that though, would be obviously unwise.
So, why don't all the violent types just go get educated and then make things boom? Well, they could. But in the process of becoming educated, your viewpoints tend to get tempered. You're not as likely to abuse your knowledge because you're probably more understanding, and because you've now got more to lose (since education typically = better future).
That then, is the "geek bar". There is a bar of entry; a standard; an initiation; a price of admission. Call it what you want. The fact is that if you are given technology without having the means to understand it well enough to control it, then you probably shouldn't have it in the first place.
So, I'll maintain that chemistry experiments/literature is a good thing as it leads one to the path of the prerequisite knowledge required for responsible action. However, is a bomb cookbook OK? I don't think so.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Since September 11th, OUR (caps for emphasis) Government has been acting with a "ready, fire, aim" mentality. I mean hordes of FBI and troops with machine guns to pick up a 15 year old kid?? We are in a very dangerous place here. The U.S. to me seems to be at a crossroads - are we to be a free, open society as planned by our founding fathers or a closed, military state? See, I believe that it has to be one or the other. Seems to me that the U.S. has plenty to atone for internationally too. We're not as innocent as we think we are. Every day covert operations are going on all over the world courtesy of us. People are being killed (sometimes a lot of them) because of our behavor. Do I advocate terrorism? NO WAY. I don't advocate it when ANYONE does it, INCLUDING our government. Maybe the Govt. doesn't call what they do terrorism, but for all practical purposes it is. In the past, we've overthrown governments, invoked the Marshall plan (which says that the U.S. can do basically whatever they want to in the Americas), assassinated people, etc. etc. I guess what I'm saying is that before we go and put down others for having a dirty house, we need to make sure ours is clean! And it isn't. America needs to lose the smug arrogance we've had for the past 50 years. We need to stop thinking that our way is so good that everyone (of course) wants to BE us! Fact is, they don't. If they did, Cuba would have fallen years ago. Indeed, we have to start by not oppressing our OWN citizens! The past century is filled to the brim with examples of oppression by our own government of it's citizens. Americans were imprisoned and even died at the hands of the U.S. Government. Look at McCarthyism as an example. If we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we WILL repeat them. Problem is, that's happening as we speak.
Sherman reminds me of that guy from American Pie. Red headed step child, geek, braces, skinny and real prone to a nasty sunburn.
I wonder what Sherman (in this case) really looked like. Kind of funny to imagine AP's Sherman playing video games being busted by the Feds in his own house. Lots of girlish screaming methinks.
TossableDigits.com: Temporary Phone Numb
Yes, i've got his troop.cgi program tucked away on my hard drive. On december 26th of 1999 he hacked our website ( http://www.foreignpolicy.com) and posted this page:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/12HOME.HTML
I imagine that troop.cgi progam is sitting on more than 3 webservers out there.
So, wait - he admits to vandalizing serveral websites and then he complained about getting raided?
Cry me a river.
Ok, he defaced web site, he should certianly get punished fairly.
So, will his punishment be greater because of what he said, then if he just defaced web sites?
If not, we have a problem.
His attitude seems a little whiny, which is never the best way to comunicate your message. Sometime illegal activity is the only way to stop an opressive government. tea party come to mind. If you get caught, be a man about it.
Bomb making direction have been protected before, and they should. I have a copy of the anarchist cookbook. It hsa drug, bomb, and social engineering tips. I recommend reading it for an instite into the 60/70 anti-establishment movement.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
From the Newsbytes story: "In the interview, Austin said he did not write the bomb instructions but instead copied the pages from another site."
Never mind incitement to violence - this guy's a copyright violator! Let him fry, I say.
Thoreau, in Civil Disobediance, explained that philosophically it's right to disobey what you honestly feel is an unjust law. In doing so though, one needs to be willing to accept society's punishment for its violation.
In comparison, doesn't this whiny punk who's spent too much time in the 2600/Mother Jones/High Times section of the magazine rack seem a little lacking? No matter though. I'm sure his bunkmates in Leavenworth will show him the meaning of passive resistance.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
This little punk got what he deserved. He may claim that the govt is targeting him because of his views, but those of us who have a greater grip on reality (rather than some alternate conspiracy filled reality) can rest easy. Hack a website - go to jail. That's how it should be. We are not prosecuting enough of these criminals. To hell with what his political views might be - the bottom line is he broke the law. Hacking websites because you feel it's the only way you can get your POV across is a sorry excuse. If you have to resort to criminal behavior then your POV has lost all validity. Anarchists have a long history of using violence or other criminal acts to express their views. But when was the last time you heard of a store owner who just had all his windows busted out and the store vandelized say, "you know, they gotta point there."? When was the last time you heard of a website owner who just had his website defaced (or worse!) by some anarchist/Pakistanis/satanists/what-have-you say something along the lines of, "those crazy kids... [chuckle, chuckle] but you know, they do have a point there..."? NEVER! And you never will. So shut up, get a lawyer, and face the music you little creaton.
That is all.
From reading the articles, this guy was engaged in illegal activities (by his own admission), was caught, arrested, and is awaiting trial. So why are we even discussing it?
This guy is no Sklyarov, arrested in the US for actions he performed legally elsewhere (sort of like legally visiting a prostitute in Nevada, and getting arrested for it in New York). What he did was illegal, he knew it, he admitted it.
End of story, to my mind.
1 - The right of the people to overthrow their government when it fails to meet their needs is written in the Declaration of Independence:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
It is expressly Patriotic according to our countries founding document to overthrow the government should it become tyrannical.
2 - we have this little thing called freedom of speech. There is no law prohibiting the dissemination of bomb making information. If that is a crime, I guess Amazon.com is a terrorist organization:
Poor Man's James Bond
Anarchist's Cookbook
Home Workshop Explosives
I suggest we keep these things in mind as we continue to hunt down terrorists. Its important not to forget the freedoms that make this country worth fighting for.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
You'd trust a media outlet?
I tried posting this before and got
Invalid form key: fD34jshuAI
and it said to post it to sourceforge so I tried and it said not without logging in. go figure
so if anyone of any position sees this, please do something
I thought that Columbia was one
of your states... wasn't there a
school shooting there the other year
or something?
Colombia, on the other hand, is a
country in South America.
You have violated the Patriot Act by insinuating the FBI engages in anal fisting. Your computer will be confiscated and you may face criminal charges under a secret tribunal.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! No, this twerp is not the poster child for the next EFF.org case but part of that warrant refers to violation of the Patriot Act by placing pipe bomb making directions on a web site. If you really are a Patriot and want to live free then you don't let others' rights get trampled.
Ya Sure! You Betcha!, The_THOMAS
One can be 100% sure that the spoilt middle class guilt ridden fsck deserves ALL the law enforcement attention he is currently recieving.
There are just a tad too many dead Zeks & Kulaks round the world to give so called 'anarchists' like this pissant the chance to kill some more.
The only good extremist on either end of the political spectrum is a very dead one.
Curmudgeon
I think it's okay to live at home if you're 18.
Hm.
I think I had a point to make here, but I'm afraid I lost it.
This is a quote from one of the hax0red pages he left behind:
"Explain why they have deliberately terminated the existence of those who have dug too far into the "conspiracy" involving UFO's, Illuminati and alien abductions."
Being a member of the Illuminati I am appaled by such outrageous remarks. Our UFOs have never been involved in abductions and we have been fighting against alien invasions since Mr. Elias Smith had three prize heifers mutilated back in the spring of 1837. This will not stand!
Why don't you go put on a DeCSS T-Shirt, yell fire in a crowded Linux expo, sell unauthorized reprints of Opra's latest pick, testify to congress that smoking isn't addictive while under oath, shout obscenities all day long while at your nearest daycare facility, and publish Bush's missile command codes in your online Weblog.
Lemme know how that simple defense of yours works. Period.
> The kid has the right to say what he wants, no matter what it is.
Where have you been? You can't use libel or slander. You can't say "I plan on killing the president" or "I have a bomb" on airplane. You can't break confidentiality agreements orally. I suppose you have the *ability* to say whatever you want, but if you define rights by what you are legally allowed to do, then you do not have the *right* to say whatever you want.
...would be to shut up and get a lawyer. I'm not taking his side, but it doesn't even seem like he understands what he's gotten himself into. He's gonna dig himself into a real long prison term by being just a little to immature and impressionable.
cmkrnl wrote:
>The only good extremist on either end of the political spectrum is a very dead one.
irony. No, indeedy.
Meanwhile, the world turns foolishly on and ants tickle his butt.
There hasn't been a Linux box on the longest uptimes chart in months.
Yeah, they caught some kid who doesn't like the government. He defaced websites and installed a (probably unworking) cgi script to log into a government site. Go get'em cowboys! Take all his computers, and make an example of him.
Meanwhile, REAL terrorists plot to REALLY blow shit up. And guess what - they don't fucking RUN anarchist web sites. They're smarter than that, and obviously smarter than US intelligence. OBL is on the loose. Omar is on the loose. Yeah, lock some fucking geek up, and take away his web presence. That makes me feel safer.
-Dean
is it your RIGHT to live in a peaceful society?
Meanwhile, the world turns foolishly on and ants tickle his butt.
Somehow I found it funny this article is right under the monkey/mouse/mind control article?
Maybe now George can get on the net now and see what all these 'terrorist' sites are all about.
-
Let's get this straight:
One may or may not agree, but that's a reasonable political statement.A president we did not elect, heading a government bought off by corporations, arrogantly and agressively pushes a pro-corporate domestic agenda and foreign policy. Now over 6,000 people are dead and he say's we're at "war", fighting secret battles against unknown enemies, and he wants everyone to be "patriots" by forsaking our civil liberties and going "shopping".
I don't see anything about bomb-making in the copies of his site at archive.org. The archive isn't complete, because some of his pages are generated by CGI scripts, and the archive system doesn't try to archive dynamic content. But the visible content is straight political material.
You can get bomb-making information from mainstream sources. Order Improvised Munitions from Amazon.com. That book is popular with the Christian right and the right-wing "militia" movement.
That being said, I am really bothered by the specifics of this raid. If the Feds had real evidence that Austin was promoting terrorism, they should have arrested him. Instead, they used their "suspicions" to justify shutting down his web site. Which doesn't accomplish much, since there's no information on raisethefist.com that isn't widely available. I don't care for fertilizer bombs or web worms either, but censoring information about them is a lost cause.
The nasty truth is that this action is part of a general strategy to shut down, at least temporarily, coordinating elements in the anti-globalization movement. This is something that becomes a priority every time there's an public event that might be targeted by the movement.
This might not seem like a big deal. So some mentally challenged anarchists lose their web sites for a few days, so what? But that's only the tip of the iceberg. During previous episodes anybody possessing a communication device (including cell phones and PDAs) was subject to arrest.
The whole strategy is based on the idea that law enforcement needs to interfere with civilian lines of communication. Austin and his crowd don't deserve much sympathy -- but the way in which the cops are targeting him is dangerous to all of us.
time/place/manner restrictions are acceptable, though various tests must be met depending on the nature of the speech involved. [The standard model escapes me at the moment, something to do with the *level* of government interest: pressing, compelling, that sort of thing.]
And, as we all know, the constitution means what the courts say it means.
Does anyone give a damn?
I mean, come on. Some script kiddi3 who doesn't like having to pay for things and believes we should all be communists, or whatever... gets busted for hacking. Big deal.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
Best examples are obscene speech (different from 'indecent'..very difficult these days to call something obscene, most prosecutors won't bother, though some still attempt it), commercial speech (I cannot claim to create a miracle cure for everything), and speech which generates a clear and present danger to the safety of people. The best example of this is yelling fire in a crowded theatre. Slander and libel is another one (unless its politicians doing the slandering..then it's okay)
I would not be surprised if disseminating detailed, credible instructions on bomb-making to those who have no need of such information became regulated under the clear and present danger standard. I'm not entirely convinced that it shouldn't be regulated either.
-
anarchy in prison is so cool! maybe you post a guide to making shanks on the bathroom wall and then start a riot! have fun in prison scumbag ;-(
Why go to amateurs when the US gov. will seel you top quality biowar instructions for fifteen bucks!
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Strange, but when the subject is the DMCA, everybody wants it to be legal to post instructions on how to make illegal devices. Bomb making instructions? Throw them all to hell, because _THAT IS ILLEGAL!_
Sorry, but I can't live with this sanctimonious bullshit. Instructions are legal, making the device and/or using it is illegal. If you've got a good reference library, you can find the issue of "The Progressive" from the late '70s that has instructions for making a hydrogen bomb. Should we haul all of those librarians off to jail for keeping bomb making instructions? Hell no.
This guy is a loser of a script kiddie, but that doesn't mean he deserves to get fucked for being an anarchist.
Given the content of his website, it would have been extremly foolish to assume that he might not have a Columbine-sized arsenal ready to use. Walking in unprepared would have been damned stupid. Overkill? No, not unless you think that exercising reasonable caution is overkill.
> I think YOU actually need to read some history, it certainly is okay to advocate violence.
The rules of the Constitution do not apply to the Revolutionary War, since the Constitution did not exist at that time. Also, the Founding Fathers were considered terrorists and criminals by the then-in-power government, namely the English royalty. Lastly, neither the British monarchy nor the U.S. Constitution say it's okay to advocate violence, and both governments have criminalized it. It's just that there are parts of the Constitution that make it difficult for the U.S. government to eliminate the means for violent revolution so that if things got bad enough the people could revolt against the government again.
Still, all of this is tangential to the original charge, which is defacing web sites, which he admitted. And, the punishment he's undergone so far was confiscation of his computers and documents and questioning for six hours. This is not only not extreme, it's not even all that severe. As to the raid, there's nothing that says the FBI can't show up at your house with a dozen tanks to make an arrest. They're just not allowed to use more force than is necessary to make the arrest safely. Since there's no mention that they shot up his house or used explosives to crack the door, I don't see anything out of line legally.
Virg
While people certainly loathe child molestors more, never in the history of the courts has a child molester been accused of causing "several billion dollars" worth of damage...
There's a grey area here. What the revelant parts of the site said was, in essence, "The government of this country needs to be overthrown violently. Here's how to build a bomb." Overly simplistic, I know, but it's not hard to see how a clear and present danger can be inferred from this. Whether that inference is too tenuous to be criminal has yet to be decided.
Virg
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Seriously, c'mon.
First, activists are not terrorists, and that kid's no activist. My brother-in-law is an activist {PETA} and his arguments are intelligent, well researched, more than reasonable, and effective. I haven't given up meat yet, but I've cut down on milk. Thus, someone is listening to him and he's effecting change. That is what activists do.
RTF is nothing more than a dumb ass kid preaching to the disenfranchised (yeah, like that's tough). He has no real concept of anarchy, no understanding of WHY the world works the way it works (no matter how screwed up it gets), and no reasonable solution. So in effect, he's running his position on poor instinct and bad judgement. He effects no change because all he's trying to do is scare people into either buying his position or dying in the chaos of upheaval. I guess it never occured to him that most of the rest of us couldn't give a rats ass about what he thinks ("getting the message out"... what a load. Your message is out, and it sounds like a big steaming pile of crap. Now you're going to try and play the victim card & blame it on the government? Where do you come from?).
Then, he's got the balls, audacidity or insanity to claim the agencies involved used a lot of hardware - no shit sherlock. You ran a website that advocated voilence, vandalism, and had BOMB making instructions on your site. Gangs are dangerous and have guns. You have politicol motivation, half a brain (1/2 more than most local gangs), and a dangerous message with instructions on how others can perform those acts too. Plus, you broke the LAW... you... IDIOT! You bet they're coming heavily armed.
And by the way, the definition of terrorism is, and I quote "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons". How 'bout that. You're a fledgling terrorist according to the very definition of the word. Good luck to him and for the FBI, keep up the good work.
If any of you feel any sympathy for this guy, you need to evaluate whether or not that's because you agree with him or just hate the feds, because that's one *'d up kid. And I'll bet the thousands of other sites that host the same kind of information (anarchists cookbook, etc.) don't advocate or act upon an idiological soapbox, which is why this kid was nabbed.
/rant. sorry.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
Most of it, if you do it, will kill you before
you have a chance to do it.
Somewhere in there are instructions on how to
remove sodium blocks from the oil to use them.
You do know what happens when you remove sodium
from its oil container, right?
Who needs bogus anarchy sites when you have TAC?
and everything will be fine.
The key point is "You secure yourself against defeat, Your enemy gives you the key to victory"
He's just been trying to pen the lock withouth the key.
I don't advocate criminal activity in the name of protest. Our gorvernment is a carefully built system that DOES allow for public protest and change.
However, I don't entirely disagree with this guy's ideas. I don't like corporate control, don't like invasions of third world countries under certain guises and abhor inhumane treatment of any "citizen of the world". Does anyone here on slashdot know of an organization that tracks this kind of development and news but holds a less violent point of view?
______________
By ignoring the political route and espousing the virtues of a violent overthrow, you have now entered the realm of "terrorist" or "freedom fighter."
Yeah, tell that to George Washington and companies, and those who participated in the Boston Tea Party.
I'm not suggesting violence here, and somehow, people happily forget how this country was created. Maybe GW (the founder, not the current GW!) should have taken the political route, eh? And going to London to argue his point, maybe?
The line between "freedom fighter" and "terrorist" is very fine, dude. History is written by the winner.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Cry like a little baby. First your break the law and then bitch and moan about getting busted. By the way, What do you expect the cops to show up with, Nerf guns? Hell he had bomb making materials listed on the site. Doesn't matter if he is a kid or not, he could still have some homemade bomb or a gun. Change the government through discussion and getting out to vote. Not by breaking the law and then sitting about to bitch about how wrong the law is. I hope that he gets treated like the little bitch he is in prison.
Read "Pacifism as a Pathology"
Keep your nose squeaky clean? They'll get you no matter what. They'll get you for having illelgal MP3's on your drive. They'll get you and send you to cuba to be put to death without sentencing.
You are a coward who is afraid to step out of line to get anything to change. I doubt you really no what the problems are. Go back to your middle-management wannabe dream world.
Or read the book.
Real change, you're so full of shit, what would you change?
This goes for all of you pathetic people commenting from behind your desks, toure the richest 25 percent of the world eh? Why should you give a shit.
You all dance the line of change, but will never commit, or cross the line. OUT OF FEAR! You always want to fall back to a safe area. Confess and get out easy. Afraid of the system. Get it? The system is evil, you should be afraid, and you should FIGHT IT!
Losers,
dailyrotten.com has an article (bout halfway down the page about the Taliban getting information from The Journal of Irreproducible Results to build an atom bomb. Details in the article on how to find the 'bomb plans'.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Raisethefist.com was shut down because Sherman posted recipes on making Molotov cocktails, pipe bombs, soda bottle bombs, and the like.
That will get you on ANY fed or law enforcement radar screen these days.
The fact is, by law it's ok to post that sort of thing for informational purposes only. I don't think he had any disclaimers up to that effect.
Anyhow, if you really want to see the site, Google has it in its caches.
So I read waht I could about his website through archives and I read what he wrote on one of the sites he hacked. All I have to say is this kid is asking for it.
It is one thing to be against the government for what they do and how they do it. Things change when you are making threats of war towards a New World Order. (Wasn't that an organization from WCW?) AKA, the government of the United States.
I for onw feel threatened about the tactics he posted on how to conduct a riot. I mean they are flat out violent. Mondavi? Cocktails and what not. Blowing up cars. Using chemical bombs. I have heard that sometimes you need to hit someone in the back of the head with a baseball bat to get their attention but when it comes to potential hurting and killing an individual to get your message across. Then you have gone to far.
Frankly, I am happy for the country I live in. I don't feel horribly hasseled, let alone oppressed. (Pretty sure I butchered that word but one can never tell)
I mean if the government really bothered him that much, one would think he would have moved to Mexico or Sweden. Not stay here where Big Brother is gonna get him.
This kid hacked and defaced websites. Crime. He admitted to it. (Real stupid on his behalf) He has had opinions which are essentially threats towards our government and country. Crime. He is rallying, or attempting to rally is what it seems like.... an army. Wanting to have ex-military join this UCA.
Yeah, right.
How can you call your actions justice when innocents are threatened. How can you only get your message across with the defacement of websites. Run by innocents. It is the same as getting your message across by spray-painting my home with your message. Another innocent is threatened. Frankly I hope he gets both barrels. Right in the ass. Make him think twice before he sits down again and writes more anti-political liturature.
On a side note... just to vent. I don't understand anarchists. Where would we be without a government and laws. If we over throw it, then anything goes. It would be safe to say that if for example the UCA over-threw our government there would be no laws and no supposed Government oppression. So I could at random go kil someone for their car or vice versa someone kill me for my car and they could not be punished. Because of lack of government. This is what I don't understand, have they not looked that far into the future and forseen the results of such chaos. The country will fall and states will divide, if they even have the means of doing that. As far as I can see, anarchy is bad. Real bad. Because then you would have to go through the whole process of creating a new form of government. And we have seen how long that takes. Just my 2 cp.
BTW, I should have joined his group since I have vast alien technology knowledge. You know, tri-lithium crystals and biological feeback on Trillians. (ROFL!)
Okay, I am done.
~Admrlnxn
"I got your mom in my trunk"
Put your hand down, Mr. Katz.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
I have to argue your idea of "updating" the Second Amendment. The original intent was to (among other things) prevent the government from getting into a position where no group, no matter how big, was able to overthrow an oppressive regime. This means that it comes down to a metter of scale. The problem with letting everybody own their own bomb is twofold: first, the destructive power of a bomb gives a single person an inordinate amount of power. For example, if I have a normal handgun or rifle, I could (with planning and luck) take out many people. That number, however, is nothing to the scale of how much damage I could do with even a modest truck bomb (witness OK city for evidence of that device's destructive force). Second, such weapons can't really be used defensively, except in a preemptive manner. If someone wants to blow me up, and the only weapon I have is a bomb, then I have to blow them up before they can do the same to me, even if I don't know that I'm in danger.
So, there need to be limits on what "arms" means in the right to keep and bear arms, lest single entities start building private armies.
Virg
You didn't capitalize "what" and "can".
(Ha, ha and all, but do make less obvious mistakes when you criticize others, eh? No one's perfect, but do make it so that at least the Great Unwashed don't readily catch it!)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that at least60 percent of the information I can find on the internet isn't exactly what I would call "accurate", and certianly not when it comes to delicate topics like creating explosives stable enough to be transported before detonation.....
- If This Peace Is Fictious, I Shall Destroy It
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I hope the prison the send him to uses "raise the fist" as a metaphor for gang rape
The simple, legal argument is that the first amendment does not stand alone but is part of a larger document which as a whole forms the Constitution, parts of which provide the hook upon which some limitations on free speech are permissable.
The deeply thougth-out legal arguments you provide ("I'm right, they're wrong") are irrelevant.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The kid should go to jail for hacking, not for bomb-making instructions.
First let me say that yes I know that some types of speech are not protected. Those types where the supreme court has already made a ruling involve cases where the speech itself actually does the harm. Ex. yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre. Obscenity also falls under this category to some extent, but isn't really relevant.
It is a bad thing for people to easily get simple instructions for making bombs. But if you make a law against it, where do you stop? If you can stop that sort of information, you can (and will) pass new laws against publishing other sort of instructions that explain how to conduct illegal activities. And then it becomes illegal to tell someone how to burn a draft card. It becomes illegal to tell someone how to conduct civil disobediance. It becomes illegal to tell someone how to share illegal information, even. The first ammendment isn't just needed as an expression of a right. It provides a buffer zone in law to protect from encroachment of that right. If we allow this one encroachment, unconstitutional laws, like the DMCA which prohibits you from instructing people about how to break encryptions, will become far more widespread. And widespread in far less palatable areas.
And even with these laws, I fear that we will find that we have not impacted a terrorists ability to harm us one iota. They will still do whatever they have to in order to harm us in the simplest most direct methods possible. Instead, as a free society, we should be committed to free flow of information, and punishment to those who misuse it.
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i cant get to his site becuase our websense has it blocked but im willing to bet this 18yr old kid isnt even registered to vote
if you have a problem with the gov (as some do) there are plenty of organizations that you can join/help that organize petitions and voting
until im arrested for wearing a dkny jacket im not going to start trying to talk big about going postal
im also sure that this kid will get a nice real dose of anarchy when he goes to prison and learn that "might makes right" actually means "take it in the rear by big bad bubba"
Ave Molech Setting
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The Constitution also gives us the right to own property. This kid violated that right by defacing websites. Is his right to free speech more important than someone else's rights? And what about the free speech he violated by defacing those websites?
And about the right to free speech - it has limitations. You can't teach religeon in public school. You can't organize sedition. You can't threaten someone's life. If you say something about an individual and it's BS, you can be sued.
Look at history following WWII. "Loose lips sink ships" was a mantra and free speech was curbed. But the reality was German U-boats were sinking ships based on information from spies living near New York harbors. Is free speech more important than the lives lost on the Lucitania? Do spies have freedom of speech? Hell no.
So he implies (and I get the sense that you agree) that he has the right to publish files on the web regarding construction of weapons and bombs. The federal government has for years had laws restricting him from doing this. But post 9-11, they are actually cracking down. Bummer for him. Notice my crockadille tears.
There will be limitations on liberty and over time corrections to those limitations. There are liberties that I am concerned about post 9-11, but I don't think our government is "out to get us." Our leaders are faced with the enormous task of balancing our Consitutional liberties with the realities that those liberties are being used as a weapon against us during a time of war.
Shutting down a website like this is within the sphere of what I am willing to tolerate. I don't give a crap about this kid's motives, He needs a good kick in the ass. If he continues to be a professional protester, he could at least learn a sense of responsibility.
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The young man in question may not be the best choice for a poster boy for free speech. Nonetheless, the implications of the USA Patriot act are scary. If our founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson and Sam Adams were alive today, they would be incarcerated.
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
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"Why no confirmation on raisethefist.com reported raid?" at http://www.politechbot.com/p-03083.html
I am sure that I read somewhere that over 90% of all statistics on the Internet are made up. When I find the link to the research I will post it.
"People can rant and rave on the Internet all they want, but when they cross the line of calling people to action to violently overthrow the Constitution of the United States, they have a problem," said McLaughlin.
I find it horribly ironic and insulting that an FBI agent would imply that he is defending the Constitution, when the FBI has been attacking and violating the Constitution since it was created (unconstitutionaly created no less).
It sounds more like Austin is rallying people to violently reinstate the Constitution that the US government has been ignoring and raping all these years.
the right to live in a peaceful society listed there.
Right to life? Sure, unless the law says it can be taken away as punishment.
Right to liberty? Okay, except there's this list of things you can't do cause we said so.
And pursue happiness all you like. But the government is not in the business of making you happy. And neither are the laws of this country. Laws are designed to ensure the continuation of the lawmaking body or bodies. Y'know, things like "Treason is punishable by death".
Meanwhile, the world turns foolishly on and ants tickle his butt.
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1.) 95 theses, not 99.
2.) The Wittenburg church, not the Vatican, which doesn't have a door per se.
3.) Protestant Reformation, not Revolution (and no, that's not just semantics; the words mean very different things).
Carry on.
Virg
Professor Dave Touretzky at CMU (the guy that runs the well-known DECSS gallery, has a mirror of the previous contents of the raisethefist website here. The content for which the site was raided was apparantly the Reclaim Guide, which contains detailed instructions on defensive and offensive tactics for rioters faced with riot police.
I'd like to see you go walk up to a police officer and spit on him, give him the finger, and say, "arrest me, you ****ing fool!" Because that's basically what you're doing. Most /. readers are NOT the richest 25 percent of the world, at least I'm not... "Fight the system" "Down with the Man" Those political activist books are filled with more propaganda than you can shake a stick at. Sure, go read the book. But then read lots of other books, and have a well-formed opinion. Doing otherwise will get you nowhere but jail. It's guys like Dmitri Sklyarov who make better "poster children" of the "corporate reform movement," because he did literally nothing wrong. He violated no Russian laws, and he's not a US citizen. That's an example of unlawful government/corporate oppression. But as soon as you get violent, or encourage violence, instantly you are perceived as a heretic and a rebel. You want reform? Do it the right way. Do it the smart way.
A solution to the problem with music today
I used to run a site a long time ago that had bomb recipes. It wasn't for any political agenda or anything, I just though bombs were interesting. I got interviewed by the NYT. I know the government was watching me too, but they never did anything about it. I finally got paranoid and took down the page. After I took it down, I got death threats from middle eastern countries telling me to put the info back or suffer the consequences.
Well, that's a simple one. Eat all of the Pixie Stix powder, get massive sugar rush, and you'll be unstoppable!
Virg
Oh, man I wasn't thinking.... I clicked the link to the Web site... I bet the FBI knows... What do I do.?. OK Cal, stay clam... Just stay clam...
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
I'm reasonably leftist/radical myself, certainly at american standards. So, my first impulse is to feel sort of sorry for the kid, and feel anger for the cops.
About his political views:
The kid isn't very smart. He also hasn't much interesting to say.
Lot's of things he is against, and almost nothing that he is for. That is always a sure sign of the wrong kind of punkers/leftist/idealists or whatever americans would call this type of people.
The "right" kind of leftist is harder to find and is usually doing hard work for their ideals.
About his methods:
He shouldn't have kept all those computers at home, he should have hosted his stuff offsite in the first place. Or at freenet or something equally elusive.
So as a revolutionist he isn't very effective. Basic survival of the fittest at work, I would say.
About him as a person:
I view this kid simply as a malcontent adolescent. He is only crying for attention, and now he got it. In fact, the people who raided his home did him a favour, if I think about it:
Look at all the attention he got!
Also, he already had the opinion that all police/secret service etc. are fascist bastards anyway, so now that they come raid him, he accuses them of overreacting and being meanies generally.
Well, duh!
Like I said, he is not very smart, like most of his kind
-------------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just sme
Not on your life. I hoped slashdotters would have more intelligence than to sit like mindless plebians agreeing with their government. If you are a US citizen, your government is walking all over you.
The sole purpose of any government is to repress it's citizens. Each law which gets passed further represses people and takes away more rights and privelages.
There are people on the outer fringes of politics like Ashcroft who would love to see all US citizens become mindless drones with numbers who exist solely to serve the government. We need people on the other extreme and anarchists to keep people like Ashcroft in check.
using a SWAT team to take down a skript kiddie with thoughts of anarchy is nothing more than a display of force and another attempt to intimidate others who might speak out.
Now I have to go, somones knocking on the door...Be right there..... Do you have a warrant....we don't need no stinking warrant get on the ground....okay boys grab everything and torch this place.....
not the bomb stuff. the best recipes are in the us army "improvised munitions" field book, available from the feds through the freedom of information act. kinda funny.
The US regularly has bombed foreign media buildings because they are 'propaganda' tools yet if someone did the same thing with CNN, ABC or any other swill stations, it would be considered terrorism.
... governments are always above the law. (iftheyre poweful enough)
You only break a law if youre an individual
jon
plus, I never trust a media outlet who can neither spell, nor use spellcheck.
"They sorounded the house with guns before raiding it." - RTF Founder
Tell me about it. If anti-globalization protesters were literate, maybe people would listen to them. Currently, they're far more amusing than credible.
How about the use of the possessive to denote plural? "undercover's"? "government's"?
And the cream of the crop: "with they're eyes focused on the premises." With they are eyes...? "they're excuse" They are excuse?
I guess I understand what his site stands for: I'd be angry if I were illiterate, too.
But I am concerned that he got raided. He should be allowed to speak, even if he does desecrate the English language in the process.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Because it isn't relevant. The identity of the victim of a crime isn't relevant as to whether or not a crime was commited. Suggesting that the identity of the victim justifies the crime is the same logic used by whackjobs who bomb abortion clinics and shoot people all the while claiming that they're doing God's work.
If an act is wrong, it's wrong no matter who you do it to. .
. --- If you're looking for free e-mail you won't find it here! http://www.noemailhere.com
I can understand that not everyone that strongly disagrees with the system steps in line and taking matters into your own hands can be the right thing to do -- if your cause is right. The problem is that it's undemocratic to take matters into your own hands.
But you can't educate the whole world about your cause, 1/ the rich aren't going to care because they benifit too much from the system, they'll boycot you too (don't count on favorable news stories) 2/ for middle class the system doesn't appear to be broken, 3/ the poor know how powerful the rich and rulers are and won't believe you can change something.
Also you can't just change the ways for a small community. You need an almost global change if you want a non-capitalist system to exist, if you don't have that you just can't get the necessary resources (don't forget you can no longer count on any capitalist resources).
So, what's a fellow to do? Ignore the situation and try to live an apathetic life? Be a good rebel and do a few protests a year, ignore that the media reports only the few windows that were broken, be happy when politicians say you were good boys and girls because you didn't cause damage? Violence does get a message accross, sure most people will be angry at those vandals-protestors but a minority will investigate and join your cause.
(Note that in this post I'm not so much talking about raisethefist.)
Monkey sense
get a copy of the us army "improvised munitions" publication released under the freedom of information act. it's got the best recipes and instructions anywhere, much better than "the anarchist's cookbook" which is full of wrong information that will get *you* blown up instead of your target.
FOAD
"The first amendment supercedes all previously passed articles."
Just because the First Amendment is the first one in the Constitution doesn't make it the most important one. Hell, IIRC, there were two amendments before the First Amendment that didn't make it, which is why the First Amendment is the first one.
The Supreme Court has ruled, time after time, that speech can be prohibited if there is a substantial state or governmental interest that backs the argument for prohibiting the speech. If you think I'm wrong, go look at cases like Miller v. California, Near v. Minnesota, and United States v. Progressive, among others. Then there are things such as time, place, and manner restrictions which may be used to prohibit speech, as long as the laws are narrowly tailored and don't prohibit more speech than necessary.
But if you want to get technical, as it seems you're doing right now, then I could still say that you're wrong. The First Amendment states that Congress cannot pass any laws barring free speech. It never said anything about the Supreme Court setting precedent.
Go research some Supreme Court cases on the First Amendment before you start with your childish "I'm right you're not!" tirade.
--
The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
There is one hell of a difference between posting instructions on how to make a home grown fertilizer bomb on a web site that is attempting to incite people to taking down the government and some 40 year old virgin librarian with a technical manual on how to make a hydrogen bomb in the local library. Last I checked, you can buy fertilizer anywhere. U235 and other fun stuff is much harder to come by. This little dousche bag was a moron. From the moment he started it, all the way through. He is going to get it from big brother, just not the big brother he was thinking of...
So you're looking forward to the nWo invading WWF
on Monday Night Raw too? Good thing, even though
Vince will screw it up.
is limited to being republican or democrat or any other party that can raise .5 billion in PAC money.
To the Government's credit though, he is still alive. I guess he's too insignificant of a runt to have him off'ed, or maybe government resources are spread a little thin what with the war on vague nouns and all.
Thats it, everyone knows it.
No more free speech, get it through your heads.
If you say something dangerous, your going to
jail, period.
Say I say, "Take some Kerosene and mix it with ammonium nitrate in large volumes, then light it on fire and watch it explode"
Thats speech, thats illegal,
America the imprisioned, America the enslaved.
Highest per capita # of people in Jail, even more
than China and russia combined, not good.
[QUOTE]
In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
..snip..
According to Austin, he has been targeted by the government simply because he advocates social justice.
"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think," he said.
[/QUOTE]
This is bullshit. He's going to jail because he defaced websites. This guy thinks he's above the law, and appears to be amazed that he was arrested. That's like saying that it's ok to vandalize a store because you don't like the people who own it. And then when the cops show up and take you away, saying that they're arresting you because you're being oppressed.
75 to 90,000 secual assaults in US jails every day... now figure this out for the whole year and tell me if there is a more rape-loving country in the world.
You have to understand that dipshit is part of the general population who find humour in certain types of rapes.
C'mon, dont be shy...rape is fun.
People make jokes about bending over for the soap in jail all the time..what's the harm?
ANd then gow about the funny joke about the girl who got beaten into a coma, raped and mutilated?
Its hilarious...
Maybe a pedophile joke later on.
And that black guy who got raped with a borken broom handle by the NYPD a few years back?
Im sure he thought it was a hoot! (thank god for disasters, its helped clear up the NYPD ass rapists image)
More rape jokes...we all love them.
(well, I guess only certain rape jokes are allowed)
j
It's also worth noting that the CNN/MSNBC/Time/AOL/WSJ/XXX uber-report on the election results found that Bush won in most every case but for the most convoluted counting methods (something like count dimples but not hanging chads in four or five counties only.) I truly believe that in a hundred years Bush v. Gore will be hailed as a landmark case for the preservation of voting rights. The catcalls to contrary are sour grapes from people who don't see the big picture.
Certainly democracies have problems. It's not the perfect government model. So, when you find the perfect one, let me know. So far, democracy seems pretty good (yes, yes, I know we have republic not a democracy, but since that's what everyone calls it, I'll do the same.)
-sk
It was there at 10.14 PM GMT and its just been pulled at 10.16 PM GMT
with the obligatory
"This site may have been removed due to a violation of Freeserver's
"Acceptable Use Policy".
luckily google is still there
But for the love of god and the preservation of the sanctity of this message board, STFU already.
That goes for the idiot who you were responding to, as well.
Perhaps this will be my quest, to be the BushIsNowThePresidentSTFUAlreadyGuy...
This gets a little rant-ish, but bear with me.
Freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution, but it's a little known (or frequently ignored) fact that you do not have the right to incite people to violence against others or to incite violence against the government. It's the old "screaming fire in a crowded theater" concept. You are not protected when your speech or actions causes harm or attempts to cause harm to others.
Yes, the Constitution allows for changing or abolishing the government when that becomes necessary but it has been decided and confirmed now numerous times that the freedom of speech does not protect those who incite people to do so in a violent manner.
Gripe and bitch and moan all you want about that, but it doesn't change it. IMO, the freedoms we enjoy in the U.S. are wonderful but not perfect and frequently need some kind of checks in place, especially as the world changes and becomes more complex. The same people who would defend the pinhead who runs RTF on the basis that we can't impinge his freedoms are also, typically, the same bunch who will scream vehemently that the 2nd amendment doesn't protect someone's right to own automatic weapons. Well, literally it does, unfortunately. Let's all be reasonable and accept that, as times change, so to must our understanding of how our freedoms can be abused and used in destructive a manner. I don't support those who feel it is their right to own automatic weapons and I don't support those who incite violence against the government or citizens.
I don't feel RTF merits my help. I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way. Anyone advocating violent overthrow of the government can go to hell. I'm tired of this incessant emulation of the stupidity of the '60s that we seem to be stuck with. It's unreasonable and immature and totally thoughtless. Let's focus our energies on people and messages that matter. There are plenty out there.
If you call blowing up things with pipe-bombs "social justice" then you have your head screwed on incorrectly.
+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
My bad. My point was that we can't always just spout off just "cuz the consteetution sez so". That is what a lot of people think the 1st amendment means. The trade secret exception was only a (poor) example. The top-secret exception is a good example though.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
So I take it you do not like our ways of running a country. If you hate it so bad then leave. You don't like how things go, then go to flipping Mexico.
You can't hate it that bad if you still live here.
~Admrlnxn
"I got your mom in my trunk"
No wonder the article posted to la.indymedia.org was posted by anonymous. There are so many spelling and grammatical mistakes that he sounds like a gibbering retard... never mind the actual content being mostly false.
Jourmalism, it's not for everyone.
I feel this kid crossed the line in taking the role of cracker and I feel he should be punished accordingly.
However, I am opposed to the comments you made, which I've heard so many time since 9/11, about balancing freedoms with security.
There can be no balance. Our freedoms are guaranteed and the government is limited by our constitution in what they can change and what they cannot. The bill of rights limits government, even though it is not adhered to very well.
If our country's foreign policy has caused us to be under threat of attack (I refuse to say we are at war until there is a declaration of war by congress), then we need to change our foreign policy. If it comes down to foreign policy versus freedoms and liberties, foreign policy loses every time.
Government is not our friend. It serves a purpose and when it stops serving the people it is up to the people to reevaluate its structure and existance. Sometimes it comes to war, but only as an absolute last resort.
I've seen other comments mention our founding fathers and the revolution. What I haven't seen mentioned is that for years the colonists tried to reason with the King to no avail. Ben Franklin spent a considerable amount of time in England trying to get George III to accept our grievances. Lastly, it was over a year into armed hostilities before the second continental congress signed the Declaration of Independence.
This kid was an idiot. Yes he has the right to advocate governmental overthrow and by the laws of nature he is given the right to try to execute those views through force. The government, however, is not oblidged to recognize those laws, and therefore he takes his chances. Now he's caught and will spend the rest of his life mourning the arrogance and stupidity of his youth, but that's his choice.
To summarize, do I agree with what he did...No.
Do I agree with the government's handling of the situation...No.
Do I think our government is doing us dry and just warming up for bigger "ashcroft-thrusts"...yes.
At some time in the future, the citizens of the US will realize just how much they sacrificed when they said, "the government knows best" or when they said, "I'd rather be safe that have dangerous information out in the open for the world to see and use against us." I can only hope that I see that day before the Militarized Police force from the ministry of Love come to drag me from my home because I posted this on slashdot back when we thought we were free.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
My god, did you look at his HTML? It's full of unclosed tags, deprecated tags and elements, and some of it was clearly done in a WYSIWYG editor.
C'mon, either we believe in standards or we don't. Raise your fist against bad code....
It's my belief that everybody gets his fair chance because that's the whole point of the American justice system. His fair chance may get him 5 years in jail. Would you rather that the courts hand out executions depending on the mood of the judge that day or by a roll of a dice? How about by public poll?
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Dude, you should look at his site. He knows who did it--some unprosecutable snot-nosed teenage fuck.
there is too much bullshit going on 'for the sake of social justice'. this guy surely deserved to go to prison, not for what he thinks but for his actions.
I never mentioned prison rape. YOU are the one who filled in the blanks there, you filthy little boy.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
The identity of the victim of a crime isn't relevant as to whether or not a crime was commited.
Kind of hard to prove that there ever was a crime without being able to identify the alleged victim.
Suggesting that the identity of the victim justifies the crime is the same logic used by whackjobs who bomb abortion clinics and shoot people all the while claiming that they're doing God's work.
However in order to prosecute such a shooting or bombing you need both evidence there actually was a shooting or bombing and some ability to tie that to the suspect. As for someone identity being used as justification, if you are big enough that will work. If you want to see it in action, watch the news...
If all this little prick was doing was advocating the overthrow of the government and providing recipes for bombs, believe it or not I'd be right there arguing with him for the right to free speech. I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to my death blah blah blah blah.
But no, this guy was actively trashing web sites, admits to doing so, and then whines that he won't go to jail for what he did, but for his opinions.
No, he'll go to jail because he's just another whiny-assed fucking criminal who got caught, and is trying to hide behind other issues that have nothing to do with his crime.
My opinion is his homepage should now be at lockthecelldoorandthrowawaythekey.com...its like 'ol Beretta said, "if ya can't do the time, don't do the crime".
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I think, by context, he meant "I hope they don't pull a Mitnick, and instead give him a fair chance." I'm not sure, but I think that was the intent.
Nicotine free Amish .sig.
.....I read it wrong. Oh well I'm sorry about my post I now say I have to agree with his statement.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
fucking idiot
The Geneva Convention
The Nuremburg Charter.
Before you think anything about Sept. 11th being something entirely new and especially evil, requiring less due process than in the past, read the Nuremburg Charter. If presumption of innocence is ok for Nazis, it's hard to see when it shouldn't apply.
Also, keep in mind that all this "anti-terrorism" talk uses Bin Laden as their reason for enacting the laws, but the laws are not confined to the acts of Sept 11th, or even confined to "violent" terrorism. There has been much effort to make sure that illegal political acts that don't involve violence fall under the category of "terrorism". Even before Sept 11th, anti-terrorism laws were used to infiltrate and disrupt non-violent activist groups and labor unions.
If a farm owner accuses non-citizen farm workers of illegal acts during a union organizing drive or strike, what is to stop these "anti-terrorism" laws and military tribunals from being used? Again, even before Sept 11th, many newspapers have referred to both violent and non-violent protestors in the U.S. as "terrorists", in many cases equating civil-disobedience (illegal acts intended to achieve a political agenda) with assassinations and mass murder.
And this is nothing new. Dissidents are often called terrorists by repressive governments. Never mind the fundamental differences between the people that destroyed the WTC and people like Martin Luther King.
I beleive the law establishes that harmful speech CAN in fact be censored...
The article didn't name names but it did say how to find them. Look for Hacked by the UCA.
The twit hacked some sites that few will ever see:
www.amorphous-productions.com
www.sans.org
www.aspects.org
What was the point?
Defecation occurs.
and you, sir, are a faggot.
Are you aware of the purpose of a sit in?? The idea is that the business of the Company/Government/Whatever cannot continue until such sit-in has ended. This was the purpose of operation rescue, a sit-in in front of the Abortion clinics so noone could kill a baby. (Not anti-abortion, just making a point.)
Now, in the hypothetical sense, if you knew that they could not put a man (someone you'd save) to death until the computer starts the Lethal Injection machine, you could save that man over a wire. By the same token, you could disrupt the activities of the aforementioned Abortion clinic by taking out their computer, or by taking out the electric company.
What is lame and cowardly, is hiding behind a police force to enforce unfair and discriminatory policies paid for by the people you are intimidating. You would not argue with the violent overthrow of a slave master, and the US Govt. is little more than that.
I don't argue that this LA guy was a whacko, or that we should be publishing bomb information on the internet. But If you really believe that publishing how to make a bomb AT ALL is criminal, lets go lock up Tom Robbins, Einstein, most spy book authors, and the writers of McGuyver. Let's go lock up anyone who has ever written a Chemistry book.
"They'd be better off by actually writing letter to the companies they hate, but of course, that takes actual time and effort." You're joking right?? Yes, we all know that writing a letter to a company gets big notice.
I'm sure that with your long and illustrious history of social activism you would be more than capable of giving us a run down of how you have managed to end 1 or 2 social injustices of the world, and perhaps give us some insight on the best method for changing the world.
At least this person stood for something, no matter how misguided the means. Lame is not doing something stupid to try and stop injustice, lame is doing nothing at all to try and stop injustice.
~Hammy
And here's why.
It amazes me that purported highly-educated people, such as Slashdotters, can conceive of the idea that torture by anal rape is a wonderful idea!
A kid wants to speak out against an administration that has little respect for the constitution? Find a "bomb" threat. Arrest him. Shut his site down. That'll show anyone else who has similar ideas how easily they can be removed.
And prison! Hot damn, right-wingers say, as they eagerly imagine the kid being held down and anally ripped for years on end. Serves him right for not thinking the correct thoughts, huh?
Have you wingnuts, at long last, no decency?
Prison rape is only a problem for the poor slobs who offend the government, in this case, or have lousy representation, being poor or unlucky, or have an unreasonable prosecutor who wants that notch on the reelection gun, or for those who indeed did something wrong. Doing something wrong while wearing a suit or uniform and carrying a briefcase doesn't count. Those types get country club jails and when they get out, radio talk shows.
But here's a point: over half the people in prison are there for drug offenses. And are being raped. This kid mayhap linked or showed information on how to make explosives -- just like Amazon.com.
Which leads me to my next point. The executives at Amazon, eve if hauled into court and convicted on exactly the same charge, would never see the inside of our country's beloved, and highly profitable, rape-torture factories.
Think of this: the top Enron officials stole, and that's the word, at least hundreds of millions of dollars in a corporate mugging of the market and their workers.
A thousand street thieves working for a hundred years would not even approach the astronomical amounts that these well-connected established businessmen stole with their eyes open over months under the cover of 9-11. Anderson shredded documents for weeks to cover the crimes.
Will any of these men see prison? Probably a few, and they'll wear orange jumpsuits, play tennis, do laundry, and eventually get out and, if they do not have millions tucked away in the Caymans, will be hired by their old friends, and make millions. Some will work in future Republican administrations, and no one will bring up their past on TV talk shows. They will never see rape in their country club prisons; they will have lawyers and well-paid and efficient guards who won't look the other way while men are ruining their souls on the floor of their cells.
When I hear "that's what they deserve" from the mouths of leering white males, I feel sick for my culture. We're supposed to be the leaders of the world, so our selected President says, yet we gleefully condemn someone to horror for the crime of saying things someone else doesn't want to hear.
I don't see, by the way, any militia people going to prison en masse for their amassing of guns, explosives, and ammo, or for their advocation of the overthrow of the government. Why is that? Let me answer for you: they are part of the same political scene that elected Bush -- the defenders of Koresh, who think the law is Nazi-like for trying to arrest his army, but have applause for an anarchist getting raped in prison.
And here's a kicker: would you boys be so eager to favor rape as a punishment if this kid was a girl? How's your imagination at thinking of a 18 year old college girl raped for ten years? Gets you all happy, like the thought of this guy's torture?
It doesn't? Why not? It's the SAME SICK THING.
I observe here that an immense part of male aggression seems to dwell on sodomizing male opponents. This seems to be a primal urge, and stems from the repressed homosexuality of American males, I'd wager. Why, O why, does it make all these supposedly well-educated and moral men snigger to think of some kid getting his?
Isn't it the very essence of evil, reducing people to things?
Think about it.
I agree. I think the government should give him a fair trial, followed by a first-class hanging.
I thought slashdot was frequented by open-minded people, not drones.
1. If he is being arrested for hacking sites, why hasn't he been charged with anything? And id you believe that troop.cgi bullshit, I have land for you. If you were trying to hack a military computer, would you write a program called troop.cgi? Me neither. Highly suspect information...next thing you'll tell me is that the media is impartial!
2. Why should telling people how to make bombs illegal? Wrong...maybe but illegal? Why weren't the makers of "Fight Club" arrested. Why wasn't that movie banned by the gov't? The kind of thinking here is the kind practiced by people who blame gun manufacturers for murder instead of the person who pulls the trigger.
He hasn't been charged with anything.
Yes, I would not want to live under communism and would be exuberant to get the fsck out.
What's your point?
I pity you poor Yankees, whose freedoms are gone the way of social responsibility and moral integrity! It would have been RICH if those SWAT homos had blown down the kid's house, the way that those proud American troops blew away the Red Cross hospital in Afghanistan :O) Heck, I'll bet it was a white American terrorist that toasted the Pentagon on 9/11/01 after all. You guys can't do ANYTHING right. Including the election of that spoon-headed Shrubya.
.. there's the reason this made slashdot. The free speech that you all pretend to cherish doesn't exist in the United Turd of America.
In case you slashdotters haven't noticed, the punk whose site was destroyed by the FBI was in fact a little scrawny computer nerd just like 99% of all of you... just think about it. Nerds in danger
I welcome all REASONABLE and WELL-SUPPORTED commentary on this post at porsche_lover@hotmail.com
See ya suckers!
James Warkentin
Most /. readers are NOT the richest 25 percent of the world, at least I'm not...
Really? R U sure you mean the world and not the western world or first world or something?
More than 1/3 of the world's population lives in China and India. 5 of the 6 billion people on Earth live in "less developed" countries.
The poorest 10% of Americans are still better off than two-thirds of the world population.
You would not argue with the violent overthrow of a slave master, and the US Govt. is little more than that.
Wow. That is some serious bullshit you sling there mister. If you only saw the face of slavery for what it is. Don't cheapen others lives.
You should go look at the RAWA website or amnesty international if you want to see what the hell slavery looks like (www.rawa.org). I personally am not a slave... I AM A CITIZEN. The last time I checked, there is a large difference.
Personally, it is a slap in the face to all of the people that have died under slavery when you make those kinds of statements. You should be ashamed of the way that you speak about human rights, after all, you have more than most by just talking here.
SPOILED CHILD... You need to learn a little respect, so go to Uganda and talk to some people without hands before you start making statements that insult the suffering and dead.
Slave to America, or slave to your fasionable rebellion?
We had a public ftp server for our clients (no web server installed), seperate from our webserver. Apparently this guy couldn't figure that out. So one day this lame HTML shows up in a space directory on our ftp server, talking about how this site was hacked and owned and all kinds of funny stuff.
.cgi, and all kinds of logged attempts to execute the code in our web logs. We looked through the code and saw that it was actually targeted to a DOD router somewhere.
Then there was the
The code actually launched a ping attack, then called itself again. I think this would have bogged down a machine pretty quick.
I think we contacted some agency (either dod or fbi) and mentioned it and sent the stuff over, but never heard much back.
Jason
Who pays attention to things? Calling for violent overthrow of the government is sedition... there are no if ands or buts about it... It's there on the books, it's one of the first laws that was put in place (next to treason, which is in the Constitution, you should try reading it sometime) Quite literally, he trapped himself. "... but calling for the violent overthrow of the Constitution... they have a problem" Er... yeah, because it's sedition, and it's against the law!
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
A water empire is a place where the government controls some of the essentials needed for life. Originally water (in Egypt), and that's still true, but it's been expanded considerably. Most cities contain less food than is needed to survive for a week (i.e., starvation would being in less than a week). They also depend on external sources of water, electricity, gasoline, etc.
Note that much of this can only be used to prevent insurrections, rather than against individuals. For individuals the preferred control mechanism is cash. It's pretty effective, though not perfect for a variety of reasons. But it doesn't need to be. Revolution is essentially impossible without the death of a large fraction of the population. And the govt. is well aware of this. So are most people, though they prefer not to think about it. It usually only comes up in disaster preparedness scenarios. Unless people get so desperate that they are willing to sacrifice the life of over half of the populace, insurrection via explosives, etc. just won't work. Unless they are targeted at controllers (or centers of control). But don't expect support from the populace. It won't happen. Expect there to be 90 to 1000 people hunting you for every one that supports you even passively. (That's why suicide tactics are so effective, but somehow the designers of such an attack rarely take part in it. Surprise! They're generally worse than the people in power.)
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I note a few posts here from people who say that the kid needed to be taken down because he advocated overthrowing the goverment.
I seem to recall a group of screaming white men outside a recount office in Dade county who could reasonably be described as violently intimidating election officials with the purpose of installing their man into power, votes or no votes.
They didn't run websites, or provide information about subjects readily available at Amazon.
They raided a recount office and intimidated them with threat of riot into stopping the recount.
I don't seem to recall FBI agents raiding their homes. No arrests. Why?
If this kid and his fellow ideologues had stormed the Bush campaign, exactly how many bullets would have been pumped into them?
What is going on here? Selective law enforcement based on the DOJ/FBI's in-house ideological bias.
This kid's (read loosers) defence hinges on one thing. Why was the raid conducted?
If it was conducted because the hacks were traced to him, he's screwed.
However, if the raid was conducted because of his web site, then he might have a defense. Even explosive information is not illegal to have or provide, as long as you don't use it.
This whole idea that floats about that the internet is somehow a more dangerous tool than the real world is a load of bull. Personaly I would be less concerned with the person that downloads bomb making info, than with the guy that walks to the book store to get books on explosives or who goes out to the library to do some research on it.
Why? Because some one with the desire and willingness to get off his ass and do the reasearch is much more likely to do something with his research.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The First Amendment standards for advocating overthrow/violent action are much higher than your statement lets on. Yes, Justice Holmes' "crowded theater" comment is frequently cited, but it has never been used as any sort of standard or test. The test (refined over the course of many years) is whether or not the speech in question created a "clear and present danger" that such violent action would occur. The clear and present danger test, after Brandenburg v. Ohio, is an extremely diffucult test for the government to pass. Basically, you have to have a massive crowd in front of you, have everyone in the crowd armed with weapons, as essentially control the crowd to the point where you could just yell, "Kill!" and they all would attack before you can be prosecuted. This extremely high bar was/is used because when the test was less stringent, the government was basically trampling all over the rights of alleged Communists/Communist sympathizers (see "McCarthyism"), as well as any other group they didn't particularly like at the time.
Oh, and the Constitution does not provide for abolishing or changing the government. Arguably this can be done through amending the constitution, but I don't think that's what you were getting at. The stuff about casting off an existing government when it fails the people comes from the Declaration of Independence (where it was stolen from John Locke), which is not actually a part of the laws of the USA.
Tuck
Tuck's Journal.
One of the FBI's reported reasons for the raid was that RaisetheFist.com was publishing bomb-making information in the form of something called the "Reclaim Guide". You will not find this part of the web site at ARCHIVE.ORG. However, I have reconstructed it from the Google cache.
For your reading pleasure: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist
It's a pretty lame document; much better information can be had from other sources. But the FBI's citing this Reclaim Guide as a violation of the USA PATRIOT Act raises serious questions about what the feds think they're doing. If they want to nail the kid for defacing web sites, fine. Why make this claim about disseminating bomb-making information being illegal?
I've mirrored the documents in question, and publicly announced the mirror to Politechbot and Cryptome, and now Slashdot. This will be an interesting experiment.
... only to have it rejected. What gives?
Bombs have many useful purposes. They are common in mining, large construction projects, and demolition. All you have to do to make a bombs is get a bunch of Ammonium Nitrate (aka NH4NO3 or fertilizer) and ignite it. Though your purpose if right, your action is flawed. Will your bomb-instruction-banning amendment stop chemistry from being taught?
D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
it looks like his DSL has been cut off, as well as being turned off by the limited host, freeservers, that he moved to when the FBI took all his stuff. On the cached version at google you can see him pleading for someone to donate space/bandwidth. i think he is going to have trouble finding any takers "yes i would like the FBI to raid my business" it really looks like he is having a bad day, could it get any worse.... Oh yeah, he lives with his mom. ha ha ha ha
I find it interesting that espousing violent resistance to violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights has been redefined as "violent overthrow of the constitution."
Time to put bomb making instructions on my own web site too. I figure a reprint of the GPO's own pamphlet on how to remove stumps by using the 6 to 1 by weight ratio of amonium nitrate and diesel fuel would be sufficient. Or is that ratio by volume? Hmmm, time for a test on a stump or two out on the back 40.
Government is the one monopoly everyone should fear, and fight against every infringement of their rights.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
This guy should be charged with public endangerment if nothing else.
The instructions are a joke, his fellow anarchists should be glad the cops arrested them and stopped others from being hurt from following the instructions.
Besides why do you need to kill the cops? What exactly did that particular cop do to you? At worst he will arrest you for breaking the law, or if the protest becomes very violent you may be shot by a rubber bullet. However they are _not_ trying to kill you. I have personally known riot officers, and they take it as a personal affront if they have to resort to force. They would much rather observe, while preventing access to property that is being damaged.
You have double standards when you complain about your equipment being confiscated, when you encourage the destruction of others property.
Violent anarchists achieve nothing comparaed to peaceful protesters, or those that actually put themselves forward to enter politics.
I hate violent protesters. Often they are just cowards that seek protection in a group that like to destroy things. These people destroy public equipment that would be better used to catch murderers and the like.
Don't get me wrong I have nothing but respect for your point of view politically, but you lose all respect when you resort to mindless violence. All you acheive is some publicity, albeit the wrong type, which further encourage those willing to join mainly for the destruction then the politics.
Welcome to the world of thug protests.
Doesn't everyone that really intends to blow things up (bombs) already has the information? I don't think Al Qaeda or whatever need to take a peak at 'kid bomber hacker'. Making bombs is in the "public domain" for the terrorist, even nuclear weapons i believe.
You just can't get the stuff needed to build one easily or undetected (I hope).
You can make a really nasty bomb with just fertilizer (nitrogen), every chemist knows that (i am not one though).
unfinished: (adj.)
"This is Los Angeles after all. We always go in to protect ourselves. We don't go in with slingshots," said McLaughlin.
Mc Laugh lin
Do your best, hope for the best, suspect the worst.
Instead of looking at the sites spelling mistakes and the means by which he tried to attin hi sgoals why don't you look at what's going on!!!! Fact: the government lies to you, corporations destroy peoples' lives for profit and children make the fucken shoes you're wearing. Fuck you assholes who aren't sympathetic to raiseyourfist.com's cause. You damn well know yourselves that it's damn near impossible to fight a guy with a fucken gun with some words and a slap in the face. So fuck off with putting down the way he did things to spread the word. Justice needs to be served. And I'll be glad to be the first in line to serve it when time comes.
What the hell is wrong with you people? This guy isn't a moron! Instead of looking at the sites spelling mistakes and the means by which he tried to attin hi sgoals why don't you look at what's going on!!!! Fact: the government lies to you, corporations destroy peoples' lives for profit and children make the fucken shoes you're wearing. Fuck you assholes who aren't sympathetic to raiseyourfist.com's cause. You damn well know yourselves that it's damn near impossible to fight a guy with a fucken gun with some words and a slap in the face. So fuck off with putting down the way he did things to spread the word. Justice needs to be served. And I'll be glad to be the first in line to serve it when time comes.
Kinda redundant, don't you think? I bend to the people who wield the powers yet I think of my own personal ideals. One would think an individual who does bend to the power would also follow the ideals from which the power delegates.
Ghandi was a pacifist and yet he bowed down to no one. He completed his tasks in a peaceful manner. He is also maybe one of the greatest leaders in the past 200 years. If not further.
I am all for guns, don't get me wrong. But should any citizen of the United States be given the right no matter what history they carry with them. Technically an ex-murderer who has been reformed and been let off probation is now a citizen again. Does he have the right to carry a gun even though he may have shot or slaughtered 1,2 maybe 10 people. And if he does, how safe would you or anyone else feel in his presence? Frankly, unless used in conventional means such as war time or hunting, I think guns are for pussies. Anyone, such as yourself, who is gonna pack a gat and walk around like they are Stoop-dog scares the shit outta me. It would scare the shit outta anyone for fear of what they might do because in their own mind it is justifying a means to an end.
If the government is out to oppress me and you and everyone else, then why are so many happy with where they stand. I know I am, I have met many who are. If you feel oppressed then leave. If you feel that you are being controlled then leave. You aren't wanted on American soil if you feel that all this is happening and that the US is evil. Then again, all this is coming from a guy who goes by the screen name screwtheNSA.
~Admrlnxn
"I got your mom in my trunk"
you don't feel secure. You don't feel the sense of, wow this plane won't blow up after all next time you enter O'hare. How is it a false sense? I feel very secure. Granted we were breeched this time, but I doubt it will happen again.
As for lets topple congress... that is a threat. It is a threat to national security since it is our means of government. Now in that paraphrase it may not seem like it. Now get 100 or 10,000 people saying that and action must be taken to protect the American way of life. It is treason.
You know I hate Hitler. I hate all that he stood for. But for a majority rule, they picked one fine leader. I mean if you actually put aside the horrific massacres he had performed, he managed to conquer nearly all of Europe and travel quite far in to Russia. He had his people in an uproar to fight. He brainwashed thousands. These actions of the majority for the time, for their ideals and what they intended to accomplish, picked the best leader for the job.
But now you have gone to far. You are skewing reality and what-if. No majority would ever vote to have an innocent shot. That is what is reason. Something real. The moral behind it all.
To end this all, What you call self defense during a riot I call retaliation for the wrong means. This guy Austin explained that basically fuck up the cops to protect your riot at hand. If Police action is necessary at a protest, then you have gone too far and began endangering the security and lives of people around you. If you start a riot, then you are stupid and civil action must take a hand. These are laws you agree to live by. He wasn't explaining self defense. He was explaining "How to pull a riot off in good form to injure if not kill a few cops to get a message across." There are peaceful means about this. Think about it.
Liberty I have. Security I have. Therefore I deserve both. I have not at any time traded one for the other.
~Admrlnxn
"I got your mom in my trunk"
Check www.google.com. Type in raisethefist.com.
See that link that comes up. Now check Google's cached copy. Funny how the website which was raided by the FBI had a story about it before it went unavailable.
i tend to agree with previous rants about defacement being 'their not listening' and to say that they did it because they didnt like your opinion is a pipe-dream. what i dont agree with though is this:
"People can rant and rave on the Internet all they want, but when they cross the line of calling people to action to violently overthrow the Constitution of the United States, they have a problem," said McLaughlin.
no he didnt like you corrupt bastards, im sure he loves the constitution.
and i didnt realize have bomb making instructions were illegal?
/me shreds his 'nuclear-warheads-HOWTO'
When you've seen the inside of a prison, it's not worth going to for something so dumb. This kid has way too much time, money, and an easy life to have any real problems. This is why he did it. Every intelligent person out who makes a decent living won't risk themselves going to jail for some stupid anti-corporate cause.
Non-violent protests should not be met with jail time even if they are disruptive or financially costly to the protested party. If your office descided to unionize and needed to strike, they would and should try to make it as obnoxious as possible for "scabs" without actualy hurting people. Simillarly, people should be allowed to protest online via virtual sitins.
The real fine point of law here is what happens when it's a one person protest who magnifies his protests effectivness via technological tricks like a DDOS. This is really an amazingly subtil point. It would clearly be wrong to prevent a non-violent one person protest in front of your local Kmart just because the guy was some how evvective.. say he made farting noises to get people's attention. COnversly, you would definitly stop him if he were breaking windows. The DDOS attack is more like this hypothetical one person protestor was going though your checkout line, but managing to be very slow about it. Anyway, it's really a very subtil issue.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
A particularly relevant paragraph from chapter 3 reads:
In addition to having allegedly broken some pretty straighforward computer misuse laws this guy was advocating violence against the state. I think that going in with guns drawn was a perfectly reasonable approach.
Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
If YOU didnt't like or was restricted by your parents, that was YOUR problem, not his. To be really free you need to be free from all these ridiculous crowd opinions "what it means to be adult". Free your mind first!
I agree with a lot this guy has to say, attacking websites im against but this country is so screwed.. people are like yay we are a democracy, well that was changed.. we originally were a republic, of course now were socialist, look up the difference between democracy and republic... id rather be a republic like we originally were before the dictatorship of Amerika took over.
Just a soap box of mine.. anyhow, let the flames begin...
>If a farm owner accuses non-citizen farm workers
>of illegal acts during a union organizing drive
>or strike, what is to stop these "anti-terrorism"
>laws and military tribunals from being used?
Umm, the law? The United States Constitution? The language ofthe executive order itself? Common sense? The court system?
hawk
This guy contradicts himself nearly every opportunity he has! From your defaced server:
he New World Order has already begun.. It's already too late to stop it. However we can fight it and put an end to it.
So.. "stop" and "end" mean different things here. Hmm.
I'm a 2000 man.
And I notice you have been marked as a +4 Troll. Without divulging if I agree of disagree with that quote - I would most certainly say it is a political statement.
Plus, the news sites are only going to report what the law enforcement agencies tell them. Let's just hope they punish him for his actions and not his ideas. He's young, alarmist, disinfranchised, yadda yadda yadda. He'll be a little more articulate once he grows pubes.
I'm a 2000 man.
"Blatantly illegal Gestapo tactics"?? "Gestapo Tactics"? I missed the part in the article when it said, "They came in and cut off fingers and toes until he confessed, and then executed him." That, my boy, is Gestapo. The feds break the laws, but they're not death camp guards.
If he posted legitimate, valuable information for constructing bombs, isn't it possible (however unlikely) that the SWAT team trying to break in would have been met by automatic weapons fire or an Oklahoma City class explosion?
And as for the seized property and stolen data: if he did hacking, the government agents can't take half of his hard drive for perusal in court and leave him the portion with Windows and Starcraft (or whatever). Yes he lost data, because it was taken for evidence.
I had to laugh when I saw this on indymedia: Bill White who is a constant neo-Nazi troll on indymedia has (he claims) reached a deal with Sherman to host raisethefist on his own server www.overthrow.com
I have no confirmation of this story but here is the link to his unpleasant website www.overthrow.com which focuses around anti-Zionism as an explanation for everything.
Has anyone noticed that most of his recipies for *ahem* destructive devices, were copied verbatim from the BBS files of that bygone era before the Internet?
The smoke bomb one is PRECISELY what I read in the 1980's.
At any rate, I agree and disagree with this guy. He's right - We, The People, do have the right to revoke those rights which we granted the Government. We, The People, created the government (Constituted it if you will via our Constitution) and gave it certain rights. When it exceeds those boundries, and the usual methods (court, lawsuits, etc) don't work - we certainly have the right to take action. I don't advocate this in anything but the most extreme of circumstances (some would say we're rapidly approaching them, but I digress...).
I DISAGREE with this moron when he suggests that people make bombs and weapons. There's nothing wrong with the INFORMATION per se, but telling people to use slingshots to fire pellets at the police really pushes the envelope. And his "Draino Bomb" for blowing up cop cars - unless some friend is around really makes the case against him. Moreover, most of his information is either incomplete or inaccurate! People could get killed following his directions. If he'd had accurate info, filled with all the usual disclaimers (for info purposes only, do not actually do this, blah blah blah), and didn't advocate using these methods then he wouldn't have had much of a problem...
However, given that he did make himself out to be a great threat, I (and I can't believe I'm about to say this) actually agree with the Fed's in going in full force with riot gear, etc. when they grabbed this moron. Just based on his website, how in the hell could they know what to expect? So expect the worst. They did, and it was completed w/o bloodshed so kudos to them for that.
This will be an interesting case to watch from the Sup. Ct's point of view... I know I'll be watching
will never be a match for automatic weapons. This kid is a fool. A damn poor one at that. Sit back and watch the show. There's nothing anyone can do to break its momentum at this point anyhow. Just smile and keep stocking that fallout shelter. ;0) And never forget that government is very similar to big business. They thrive on conflict. It empowers them. And they crush their competition. Something to keep in mind the next time your congressman votes to peel your Civil liberties away from you. You're all just a bunch of savages after all. What do you deserve of liberty?
Okay, I'm done ranting...
For what it is worth, here is the Federal Crime Code for Searching and Seizing Computers
and Obtaining Electronic Evidence
in Criminal Investigations.
There is also official and unofficial section on the redlined changes in the updated Patriot Act.
Typical of the running dog lickspittles of the capitalist bourgoisie to act like the paper tigers that they are.
Sere's 'em right for using MacRosoft Orifice2000 spelcheker.
Lucius Sour
the warrant and affidavit supporting it are here:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist/
Now: my own analysis. (For credibilty: I am a lawyer. I am also a political activist. I was AT the WEF protests in New York.)
Yes, his website did contain information about making molotov cocktails, and a suggestion that they might be used for illegal purpose. However, it didn't even BEGIN to reach the constitutional standard for incitement (which, as another poster accurately pointed out, requires the danger be imminent), and should never have been censored. Especially by the forcible taking down of a website, which, in my mind, is equivalent to prior restraint in that it prevents future listeners from hearing the speech. (about as close to prior restraint as taking up published copies of a book and burning them. Not totally prior, but pretty prior.)
I might add that the Black Bloc is indeed a tactic, not an organization, and one based in safety from random police snatch-squads and fearmongering singling out, not in violence. 99.99 percent of the people who use that tactic are completely nonviolent, even if, on average, more militant than the rest of the movement.
Noone has accused anyone of bombing anything in NY.
In fact, the arrests at the protests in NY were total and complete jokes. On Saturday, there was a permit for the major march (there were others) and there was not a single crime committed, with the possible exception of littering. Yet the cops made some 25-40 arrests by on-the-spot counts. On Sunday, the cops made the other couple of hundred, and all of peaceful, nonviolent protestors, almost all for nonsense crimes like blocking the sidewalks or disorderly conduct. Or my personal favorite, the totally oxymoronic (given the First Amendment) crime of "unlawful assembly."
I know, I was there, marching with them on Saturday, and also at the spokescouncil meetings of the group on Saturday and Sunday, and also getting news from the participants on Monday's events. ("No, Senator, I am not a communist.")
Only 1 window was allegedly broken. (I say allegedly because there were also reports of provocateurs.) No other serious crimes have even been alleged, except those committed by the cops. My guess, based on the estimates of various sources, was that there were 15,000 activists in New York at the time. Look at that ratio for a minute. How many other groups of 15,000 people can you find who don't committ crimes? (Ignoring such idiotic crimes as violation of NY's unconstitutional mask law [in NYS, part of the loitering statute prohibits gatherings wearing masks except in masquerades licensed by cities that have licensing for them], and blocking the sidewalk/street)
Disorderly conduct = contempt of cop, and/or dissent.
Yet what does the corporate media focus on? Well, duh.
"When investigators raided his apartment Jan 24, they said they discovered a treasure-trove of mischief-making tools. In addition to computers, they found literature advocating revolution, gas canisters, iced-tea bottles filled with flammable material, gas masks and an anarchist flag. Austin's car contained fertilizer, cans of brake fluid and two gas canisters."
Since when are
literature advocating revolution
gas masks (often brought by protestors because the cops indiscriminately gas people)
and anarchist flag[s]
"mischief-making tools?" Haven't those morons in the corporate press ever heard of the First Amendment?
A friend of mine (support her: http://www.thewalkfordemocracy.org) brecame an activist because she was at Seattle. A normal citizen, she was taking her groceries home, and was gassed by random cops. A door opened in her mind. Gas masks, especially, are perfectly reasonable equipment at a protest.
Item "c" of the warrant is particularly scary. Authority to search for any document about the WEF or IMF? What??? Of course, that's not as scary as g(iii), giving the cops carte blanche to destroy encrypted information merely because it is encrypted. (Helloooooo, first amendment?)
Items 27, 29, 39[should be 38](a), 39(g)(ii), 41(h), 44(f), 45, 49(d), 50(e) and 50(f) of the affidavit are equally terrifying: now it's a crime to espouse "anti-government... messages," to attend protests in masks, and other protected political activity??? (See ESPECIALLY 41(h), 44(f), 45(e), 49(d), and 50(e) and (f), for the most obvious direct punishment by political opinion.)
In short: His arrest was 100% political. He's a political prisoner, of the kind Amnesty International is interested in. If they really wanted him for the hacking, they wouldn't have arrested him right before the protests, and all the political stuff wouldn't have been in the affidavit.
RISE UP AGAINST CAPITALISM! There. Now you have literature advocating revolution on your computer. Expect a visit from the FBI shortly.
-Paul Gowder (email changed to paul@paultopia.org)
XOXO -Les ailes de l'amitié