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Installing Linux On A Wal-Mart OS-less machine
Azar writes "An article at Newsforge details the experience of installing Linux on Wal-Mart's OS-less PC. It states: 'A few months ago, super-sized discount store Wal-Mart made the headlines in the Linux world by becoming the first major U.S. retailer to offer PCs without Windows preloaded...While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux?' Here is your answer." Newsforge is owned by OSDN, which also owns Slashdot, is all part of the sinister Andover keiretsu.
As long as you have experience putting linux on a PC, this should be no problem, as long as you don't need a modem; it's a winmodem.
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Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
did walmart use a modem designed for windows on a machine that did not have windows pre-installed?
Sure, that particular modem can be supported under linux (and other operating systems?), but the clear point of these machines was that they did not have windows pre-loaded
so why use components that are designed for windows and often wont work with other operating systems?
I would have thought that they'd hire a geek or someone to make sure they didn't use windows-only hardware
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Kudos to the author of this article, as it was genuinely interesting and informative.
These machines are obviously an affordable, functional, and useful personal computing package for the 'alternative' (or perhaps just plain thrifty) user. Perhaps Red Hat or another distribution vendor should strike up a deal with Wal-Mart to bundle copies of Linux with the machines? It's been done before with not a huge amount of success, but Wal-Mart is a pretty powerful distribution mechanism, and the product already exists minus one inexpensive and 'easy-to-include' component.
How long do you think it will take for other hardware vendors to follow a similiar path? Is there enough demand for it? Does Microsoft offer too great an incentive (target market, for example) for vendors to switch away from their platform?
Has anyone tried putting FreeBSD on one of these? I wouldn't expect the modem to fare any better, but it would be interesting to find out whether the rest of the package came up successfully.
Inventor of the LOLbalrog meme.
How many people, who buy computers at Walmart, are willing to installing Linux/read these instructions.
You must be trolling.
With Microsoft Windows nearly unavoidable on a PC purchase, it's more like worrying about a "car" tax and going to a car dealer. The big deal here is that a major retailer is offering computers without Microsoft pre-installed.
You're a major stud for building your own PC. This isn't about that.
If you are so worried about the MSFT tax don't buy prebuilt computers, duh.
That's like worrying about paying a "ford" tax and going to your ford dealer.
Not at all - this is a "Microsoft Tax" - the computer is not made by Microsoft. If when you bought your Ford you had to take out insurance from a particular insurance company (whether or not you already had insurance), then that would be a better comparison, and people would complain.
You ought to be able to buy a computer without a software vendor insisting you buy their product as well.
if someone can learn how to use/install linux on a pc, they can also learn how to build their own PC. I applaud the effort by walmart, but after that snazzy processor they mention i have no doubt there is a no name motherboard, crappy generic ram, a slow 5400rpm hd, etc.
:)
Build your own, you will feel better in the morning
Someone installed Linux! On a computer!! The modem didn't work!!! Do you know what this means?!?!?!?!
At Wal-Marts website at the bottom of the page that features the Windows-less machines is the following note with respective links:
See all computers without operating systems. Also, check out our selection of Linux books.
Yes folks, they are PROMOTING Linux for these machines. So it might be possible that they could bundle a distro with the pc in the future.
Will these OS-less boxes help promote more widespread use of Linux, or will they just screw over computer-illiterates who thought they found a really good deal?
...or both?
Walmart's selling of OS-less computers is a good thing --- but only if Linux can take advantage of it.
I came away from reading the article with the feeling that unless improvements to ease of installation of Linux is forthcoming, Walmart may soon be forced to end its ``experiment.'' While the writer's experience during his test was satisfactory, the non-activation of the modem prevented it from being perfect. Any consumer buying these machines with the intent of ``trying out linux'' may be queueing for a disappointment.
May I suggest that RedHat or Mandrake or SuSE send a technical team to Walmart with the express aim of training the technical and sales people of Walmart on how to choose components so that the installation of Linux will then be brainless? The training should be done gratis. The financial payback will come when enough consumers are able to take the linux plunge successfully.
Some of the followups to that article mention that a working version of the modem driver can be obtained from http://www.heby.de/ltmodem.
Given this, it would be nice if someone could put together a complete linux distro (complete with the OpenOffice suite, etc.) ready-to-run on this box. Heck, maybe we could even convince Wal-Mart to give it away with every box!
So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem. I have more respect for Wal-Mart now. I used to scoff at shopping there, but if they can produce this kind of barebones system, at a very low cost, that can handle Windows and Linux with equal ease then the state of the computer as a home appliance is improving greatly. As for me, I buy my computers from a friend who owns a computer store so I probably won't be getting one myself.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Would be a dog on a sled. No no, a cat on a jetski! Ohh, no, more like, a walnut in a frying pan! Ohh ohh ohh, I know, its like a tulip in a Frenchmans soup! Yeah, thats it!
ok, so we don't have to pay for the microsoft tax... thats all well and good. How much do we save?
i see $799 for a P4 based system, no monitor (that could be $150-300), possibly a no name motherboard, possibly generic ram (and only 256mb), probably a slow 5400rpm hd.
am i saving anything? i could build a computer with much better specs with the same money. Maybe if they cut the MS tax AND didn't try to ream the customers with the amount of profit they want to make, then it'd be a good deal.
That's like worrying about paying a "ford" tax and going to your ford dealer.
Oh, ok. So all prebuilt PC vendors are Msft dealers/franchise - roger, gotcha.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Another value of this is that people who own old copies of Windows can install those instead of getting pulled into MS latest cash cow. For the average user who is happy with MS it saves a lot of money and requires zero learning.
He forgot to demonstrate what happens when his average Wal-Mart user decides to install that flashy game they just bought only to find that it only works in Windows.
Not really, goto mwave.com and get the motherboard bunddle and throw in a HD, video and case and your set.
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
The results of the linux installations were quite impressive to me. Especially the results with the sound card. I actually still have never gotten the sound to work on the two linux distros I've installed. (Red Had and SUSE). Although I haven't researched it too much, as sound wasn't high on my priority list. However, now that I am using Linux more and more, I would really like to have the sound working properly.
The most interesting thing was that he pointed out that Linux did a better job of installing than Windows XP, which is supposed to be able to detect nearly everything, but it didn't even detect the crappy modem.
Now if Wal-mart only had stores in Europe... One of those cheap clones would make a decent additional machine...
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
I think most Wal-mart shoppers will probably just pirate a copy of the 'ol Windows.
Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
It would have also been nice to throw in a piece of paper with instructions about your choices for an operating system to load, including a note that to install Windows, you must buy a full-price retail copy of it.
I'm all for getting rid of the Microsoft tax, but this just smacks of promoting piracy, frustrating users, and adding fuel to microsoft's arguments about how bad an idea naked PCs are.
On the other hand, if it never had an OEM Windows PC on it, you don't have to worry about violating the law for removing it...
Wall mart machines are cheap. So cheap modoem is to be expected. I preffer HP desktops w/o OS (I would like to see Dell w/o Windows, but that takes time because you have to preorder it so). Any linux runs great without setting anything.
The only thing that makes me sad is thay are adding Mandrake 8.0 as Linux kit. They should probably go with the flow and include something newer (Tested Mdk 8.2 runs perfectly immidietly after install).
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
Write to Wal-mart customer services and point out how silly it is to include a WinModem with an OS-less PC. Ask if they will be supplying proper modems with their PCs in future.
A couple of years ago, beowulf clusters was made from a bunch of 'relatively' cheap ALPHAs. I wonder if there will be a new breed of beowulf clusters, made from a bunch a REALLY cheap Sam Walton branded PCs? :-)
:-)
Can you imagine a rack full of PCs with the sticker "Sam's Choice" on them all? LOL
Just thought that I'd give you all a chuckle....
Not really, goto mwave.com and get the motherboard bunddle and throw in a HD, video and case and your set.
So just buy the motherboard and cpu...then buy a hard drive, video, case, ethernet and all the parts you need and assemble them. You're right, that's much easier than assembling your own from parts.
As the other post basically said, this isn't about having a MS-less computer on your desk, it's about having one on the shelves of a major retailer. If one does it, maybe other companies will follow suit, and allow consumers a choice (even if that choice is Win2k vs WinXP vs WinME).
If you are so worried about the MSFT tax don't buy prebuilt computers, duh.
So you think the Microsoft Tax isn't a problem? Then show me your self built notebook, please.
I was very glad to hear that most distros installed on the machine with no trouble I was thinking about getting one these things myself.
_ __
I hear some people painting the winmodem experience as typical but I have used the ltmodem packages on four different machines with great results. Below in some of the comments it is explaining that this particular one is a chipset that is not really supported. Still, the ltmodem modules work great for the winmodem in my Dell 4000 right now.
What I like is that he did not just install one distro and let it go at that. He installed multiple distros which gives a reviewer a much nicer base of experience to speak from.
Read carefully his experiences with the install. It just goes to show linux installs are getting much easier and autodetection is very good.
There are still gotchas (his was the modem) but anyone not using Windows pre-loaded from the manufacturer to work with that machine will come up with at least one install gotcha. My gotcha was the free Umax scanner that came with my laptop. Xsane still has no driver for it because of Umax's bull-headedness. The funny thing is that Dell started selling the Epson 1250 after that and I hear they work great with Linux. Argh!
_______________________________________________
ACK
Wouldn't it have been better to compare these distrubutions to, say, Windows 2000 or XP Home? Or at least 98SE?
I mean, I think ME is pretty widely regarded as the suckiest Windows there is. It's also based on the old DOS kernel. Wouldn't it be better to compare Linux to Microsoft's more robust NT? There would at least be newer drivers in 2000 and XP.
Also, checking Mandrake and Redhat's sites, it seems as though these reviewers were comparing fairly new distributions against a fairly old Microsoft OS (released before W2K, AFAIK).
I just don't think that saying that these distributions were easier to install than Windows ME is saying too much. Besides, people will still want to install Windows, regardless of the ease of installation of these distributions. Now, if the machines came preloaded with Mandrake, or something like that, it MIGHT be SLIGHTLY different. But, I just don't see where many "regular" users are going to install Linux. They like Windows, it works, and they've got the old CD already. Their friends use it, too. And they use it at work, as well.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
I see Wal-Marts everywhere
That is probably because Walmart, number one on the fortune 500 with $220 Billion (with a B) in annual revenue (compared to Microsoft which is 72nd with $25 Billion), has sucessfully used predatory pricing to drive out of business all of the small mom-n-pop businesses and most of their larger competitors.
Before we all jump on the WalMart bandwagon just because we think they are taking a swipe at Microsoft, we must remember that this is the company that used its power to force record labels to produce two copies of every album (one nice for Walmart and one naughty for everyone else).
To all whinging about the modem: I recall the modem wouldn't pick up under any OS, Mandrake, SuSE, or WinMe. It was a dud.
Of interest, the WinMe was the least newbie friendly, requireing the manual loading of some 3rd party drivers.
"Remember, any tool can be the right tool." -- Red Green
not everyone has the time or the inclination to go out and find, buy, and assemble all of the parts into one machine. Some people might just not be into the hardware scene enough to want to do that. I'd buy I clone because I'd just have more fun fixing it when it sucks and breaks. The problem here is that for a long time you could only buy a computer *with* an operating system, and the only OS the store would give you to choose was Windows. It sounds like something called coercive tied selling to me (salesperson implying that you must buy one product in order to buy the other). Maybe before building your own was the best way to avoid that problem. Maybe people are just saying that they're glad it's not like that now, and they can just go out and buy a computer like anyone else would.
I would suggest you all consider NOT shopping at Walmart -- for anything at all -- read this please
/. headline states) Labour Day everywhere else in the world but Canada, USA and SouthAfrica. Did you know May Day became Labour Day because of the American Labour Movement? Read a little history here
It is very sad that this story is also posted on May Day, which is (as another
I'd like to see your statistic for total mom-n-pop revenue compared to Walmart in areas that Walmart services. Does it beat $200 Billion? I doubt it very highly. Saying that there are a greater number of mom-n-pops is just ignorant.
As for forcing - I could also say that Microsoft did not force anybody to use their product. Walmart did not come out and say that you had to produce two versions of every album. They only said that they will not carry albums with parental warning labels. You decide whether that is forcing or not.
I can assume that you have some association with Walmart to be so blindly patriotic to a company that has left so many businesses in ruin in its climb to the top. Do a search on Google for Walmart and predatory pricing and then come back here and post.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp? customer_id=04&keycode=6W300&order_code=dim44pri
599 with 100$ rebate.. Pentium IV 1.7ghz. Call their small business line and tell them you need it sans OS because you want linux on it. Boom. Your price is now $399 for a Pentium IV 1.7
Or, go to http://www.unitedmicro.com, configure a PC
to your heart's content and don't ask for any operating
system in the configurator. Then call them up on
the phone [I know, I know, that's SO last century]
and tell them you'll send them a linux CD. They'll
make sure that there are no incompatibilities encountered
in a bare minimum linux installation. Since you know that the
components are compatible, wipe off their bare linux installation
and DIY after the PC arrives.
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
-without the knowledge of the employee or their families-
Nice troll. I heard the same radio program. The big complaint was when an employee died, the family did not recieve the bennefit. There was no mention the employee or the family bothered to pay the premium. Both could have taken out a policy if they wanted to be the benificiary. It was a case of sue for the money whether you have a right to it or not! Too bad the broadcast distorted the picture so the family looked like the victim they were not.
Now if they billed the family for the premium and then kept the benifit, then you would have a real issue!
The truth shall set you free!
All he tested was a Duron at 1GHz. I would like to see the results from doing the same tests with the higher end models. The way he made it sound, you could get a much better PC for about $600 and most of the components would probably be PCI and not wired to the motherboard. When you get the lowest of low end, like a Duron, it frequently comes with one of those do-it-all motherboards that has substandard (in my opinion) components, such as the modem and ethernet interface.
It was a thorough review of the low end machine, I admit, but I'd really like to see how the higher end machines performed. $880, or whatever he said the max price was, isn't that much for a 2Ghz machine with 512MB ram, and I think that would still be a "price concious" buy for a linux user.
~ now you know
Wouldn't you imagine that someone skilled enough to install and use Linux would build their own machine in the first place?
Common sense is not so common.
They'd install a pirated version of Windows like everyone else does. With all those cracks/serialz out there Windows is esentially free (as in beer) software anyway.
or what if Walmart hosted install days?
Advertise for customers to order the PCs up to a week or two in advance to allow for delivery. Then have them return to the store on the selected Saturday & Sunday to pick up their new PC and have Linux installed on site for free by local geeks. They could sell books and distros near the install area. I'd do it at the local Walmart, no problem.
And I bet RH would supply tons of free CD kits. Hell, use one of the machines to burn CDs for the customers! That'll freak 'em out for sure.
Intelligent Life on Earth
"Linux Installed on Standard PC"--STOP THE PRESSES!
"Hi, we have these great PC's for $$$.$$ and Linux for dummies for $$.$$ and a boxed Mandrake distro for $$.$$"
The boxed Mandrake distro, the Linux® For Dummies® book, or even Lycoris Desktop/LX costs about the same as the Windows OEM license.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There seem to be a lot of articles at the moment about people installing linux on (almost) normal hardware - whats the point? Is there really anyone reading /. who couldn't do this themselves?
How much would it cost W'mart to sell these machines with a pre-loaded Linux image? Surely if they cut a gold image it would only cost a few cents to ghost them onto the hard drives before they went into the machines? Or they could produce a "recovery CD", which restores a Linux image which works on that hardware?
How much better for the customer to go home with a system which they can plug in and start playing nethack straight away without having to obtain and install a Linux distro.
And it would annoy the crap out of M$.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
just a random thought - would a company still qualify for the MS OEM reduction, if they sold an OS-less pc, but included a cd of a linux distro, without actually installing it?
Look, you are viewing this backward I think. Maybe I'm the one viewing it backward. The point is this, however.
Wal-Mart does not care about the people who are usually shopping at Wal-Mart when they are selling them these computers. This, in my humble opinion, was never about the typical Wal-Mart shopper.
Someone in Wal-Mart management was only just savvy enough to recognize that there was a computer community in full force that did not want to have Windows on their computer. It goes back to the basics of supply and demand.
There is a community of people demanding that computers be available without Microsoft anything.
There is now a supplier of computers without Microsoft anything.
Now, with news sites like Slashdot running stories on it. More people are going to be saying to themselves. "I could hit walmart.com, pick up a new clone and drop linux on it." Some of them might even be saying "I could drop my existing copy of Windows on it."
Even if the machine isn't a major name brand, Wal-Mart has more people than ever looking their way now because of this. With the whole Microsoft trial, and the all the anti-Microsoft sentiment right now, this is probably just the thing for Wal-Mart to do.
Even if they can't pull in the "build it yourself" crowd. Joe Sixpack has heard from all his buddies who are in the crowd how bad the "Microsoft Tax" really is. Even if they end up installing Windows anyway, these machines still get a quick look.
The only thing I can say is that it appears to be a win/win situation for Wal-Mart.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Rollin' Back Prices, Every Day
Always LOOOW Prices
Really, at this point, "win" modems work well in several alternative operating systems. I prefer to call them "software" modems..
Anyway, i have found it easier to use a "win" modem then this old 14.4 ISA modem I have. "Win" modems work almost right out of the box with linux...this thing is a pain in the ass. It dials, but never connects, and doesn't take the IRQ settings you give it(It is ALWAYS causing conflicts, and wont go to an unused IRQ....even when using the hardware switches..)
>> we must remember that this is the company that used its power to force record labels to produce two copies of every album (one nice for Walmart and one naughty for everyone else).
... But why would I base a computer buying decision on if the store offered "alternative clean" CD's? I can see they understand that their clients (shoppers) are more family oriented and may want to purchase "today's music" without "today's decedent message..." (In my days it was fu*k like a beast --- now days it's fu*k a beast.)
I hate censorship as much as the next guy...(however I am now a father and can appreciate not wanting your kids subjected to all of that crap)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Why doesn't Wal-Mart just preinstall linux themselves on these? It would expose Linux to people who otherwise probably wouldn't try it, and hey.. maybe they'll even like it and keep it!
if you read the user comments they link to a few sites that sell OS-Less Laptops
Also, www.shackstore.com will sell you a laptop sans OS
and also Ive been told if you specifically ask for no os and order over the phone, Dell will sell it to you w/o an OS -- but IIRC there is no price discount.
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
The system also included the manufacturer's booklets for the motherboard and CDROM drive, as well as CDs with Windows drivers.
I know it's only windows drivers, but I'd say this package is much better than other systems out there with Windows pre-installed. Every time I have to reinstall windows on a ComCrap computer, I have to hunt down drivers on compaq's site, as well as driverguide.com. I wish every store-bought computer came with a CD containing drivers on it.
$cat
When I was a kid we had these really cool stores in town, Lafayette Electronics and Radio Shack (not to confused with the fairly useless RS nowadays.) They sold all kinds of do-it-yourself kits to make radios, metal detectors, winky-blinkies, etc. They also sold generic bare circuit boards you could build your own projects out of Pop. Electronics (aw heck, now I'm getting all nostalgic *sniff*) with your handy Weller soldering pen.
Did this encourage budding electronic enthusiasts to steal parts from Lafayette/Radio Shack to build these? Nah, not unless they were already unethical people, and it's best to realize right away that you can't force your ethics on other people, if they're of that stripe then they'll do whatever anyway. As for my brothers and friends, we bought parts at Hamfests, scrapped industrial electronics, even picked a few TV's off the curbs the night before trash pickup.
Do everyone a favor and try to be less of a pessimist.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Please write to them in friendly, non-condesending words how helpful it is to offer non-winmodem PC's, of make modem an option. Being a jerk is unlikely to have your letter read past the "Dear Bloated Sack of Protoplasm" salutation. It's a big step for Wal-Mart, love 'em or hate 'em, and if it's a success than others will likely follow suit. If Wal-Mart sees it as a failure and the type of customer they've attracted as obnoxious jerks, the decision to drop it and declare it a bad business decision will be that much easier.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I like the name "WNW Windows" - Window's Not Windows Windows
I installed 2k Pro for non-profit on one of their 1.4 athlon's. It came with good driver cd's for M$ products. A bit loud, but working fine.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
It has a winmodem, which I couldn't get to work. Don't know whether BTC has their own propretary driver module or if there is really an open-source driver available. Anyway, I just ended up buying an external modem for $30 on e-bay, and that works fine.
A few minor problems: I had to turn on sw_cursor in my XF86Config, because the video card's hardware acceleration feature for drawing the mouse cursor wasn't working correctly. (This was an intermittent bug that would show up every day or two.) Ethernet also didn't work correctly at first. Had to download the mii and 8139too modules and add the relevant insmod lines to rc.modules.
Find free books.
Sorry, I know people who work there. It is not rocket science, its simple retail. To expect any retailer to pay more than the local wage for such work is nothing short of ignorance. At least they CAN get medical benefits. It seems Congress only attempts to make it more unaffordable as each week goes by. It *IS* Congress that will make health benefits for the lower income people even less affordable, that is their goal. They want to make sure employers like WALMART cannot afford to provide it. Why? Simple, Congress (read DNC) wants the government to control health care. The easy way to do it is to make it unaffordable for corporations to do it.
Sorry, that article is the typical mud slinging crap that always shows up. Walmart is successful, and those that I do know who work there are just happy as can be. Apparently they know they are not going to get paid 60k a year... and don't feel they deserve to.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The source code compiles fine and a script complete the installation. There is even pre-packaged drivers for many distros including: RedHat and Debian. So, yes it is not straight forward, but is not as painful as recompiling the kernel.
Achille Talon
Hop!
They're a company and should have the right to sell what they want within the law - If you call making an alternate product available censorship because they refuse to sell the original, can't Gates call making an alternate computer product (because in his mind all computers originally had Windows on them) censorship as well?
********************
I object to Intellect without Discipline.
Wal Mart's can be hard to find in cities, so many people may not know what a godsend they are to rural america. WalMart stores are typically located on cheap land--which is mostly rural America and out suburbs of the some large towns they can be found in. It's very similar to how Southwest on flies into and out of cities/airports with cheap airport fees and terminal space.
:)
And I encourage you to look at WalMart's prices and compare with others. They _are_ pretty damn low. Even in the small rural towns where Wal Mart has already put small mom & pop stores out of business and cornered the market. This is about the only downside of WalMart's--the little guys can't compete with them.
They provide many items which may not be sold in the immediate area also (shopping selection in rural America tends to be very limited). They have a good distrobution system where the ship the things that aren't selling real well in one location to another where they are during the night via truck. For instance, during the Missouri floods they would bring in sand, shovles, flashlights from other stores and ship things like riding lawnmowers and plastic play pools out.
This sounds more like a hit piece against corporations/Fortune 10 than truth. The article is seething with angst and loathing from the denotations of the adjecives and adverbs used.
Also remember, Sams is also connected to the Waltons and contributes heftily to the profits also. Anyone who has bought one bag of chicken wings for $10 to feed themselves for a month knows the joy of Sams
- Sig
I know it has on-board video (using the 8MB shared system memory), but does anyone know if it has an AGP slot so I can plug in my own 3D video card if I have one?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
If the computers all come with Winmodems, and the Winmodems can be made to work with a recompiled kernel, and if RedHat wanted to get Linux on all of those "OS-less" machines, why don't they just build a special version of RedHat with that modem driver inside the kernel specifically for WalMart computers? Then there would be no problem at all for new Linux users.
They need to offer a sweet deal on a cd set to sell along with it. Allow Walmart to hit a price point, like under USD $20.
I'd rather live in a world dominated by Bill Gates than one dominated by Sam Walton.
[i]If I had wanted to keep Windows on the machine, I would have had to manually install drivers for both the ethernet and sound card, because Windows did neither on installation.[/i]
Yeah, recompiling the kernel is SO much easier than checking "Use a driver from specified location"
I think a map of New Mexico should be enough to get the esteemed Doctor back on the right path.
"As in Helsinki, Sweden."
Lycoris had some HP desktops and have apparently sold out of the things.
h ttp://www.indybox.com/products/a ta.com/x86.html/ t tp://www.gtweb.net/custom.htmlo mputersystems.com/i n/system.cgi?pid=9/ www.sunsetsystems.com/
A company called OEone makes a distro based on Red Hat but using Mozilla for the desktop. They are selling "internet computer" boxes with their product installed. Here is Robin Miller's review of the appliance/OS. I saw a more negative review of the OEone Homebase distro all by itself, but I can't cite it.
There is definitely some demand for preinstalled machines, but perhaps the distros reckon they are better off just supplying OEM versions to small vendors.
From my bookmarks for preinstalled desktops:
http://www.linux-works.com/html/desktops.html
http://www.hardd
http://www.dsgzone.com/linux_lab
http://www.swt.com/
http://www.buypogo.com/
h
http://www.linuxc
http://www.micronux.com/cgi-b
http://www.atipa.com/
http:/
Ask them to offer the option of removing that POS losemodem for an additional $5 price cut. I can see businesses interested in these machines, and businesses normally don't need modems at all. Ditto for people with broadband.
Nothing like Wal-Mart doing whatever they can to put small computer shops, who offer bare computers without Windows, out of business.
Lemme guess -- SiS video, right? In which section of XF86Config do you put this?
I was merely responding to the person who asked how they could commit the folly of having a Linux-targeted system with a modem that requires windows. And my answer was that the system was not Linux targeted. Just cut-rate.
Ñ'
No, I just support their right to provide a better deal.
Let me explain predatory pricing to you. When Walmart moves into a town they offer very low prices sometimes even lower than cost. After the smaller competitors are forced out of business they return to their regular prices. They may call it Grand Opening prices or whatever. This is illegal in many jurisdictions and unethetical in other areas.
I use Win 200 pro,,, I like it- in my opinion it is the best WIN OS out there,, with the possible exceptiion of XP pro--lets face it WIN has its advantages, it is the most user-friendly system out there and i have never experienced any huge problems with any version of win-its apples and oranges
You say "predatory pricing," I say "efficiency and selection." Let's be clear: the reason Walmart is successful is because lots of people like to shop there. I personally don't, unless I'm looking for something like an inexpensive appliance, but lots of people really do.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
I'm the author of the piece at NewsForge.
Let's get this straight: the modem does not work.
The people who say they have a working Lucent modem do not have this Lucent modem. This Lucent modem (type 048c) is not supported by any driver I can find. One of the people who insisted that the modem works had a type 0440, which is supported by the Lucent driver.
If someone has a patch that makes the 048c modem work, I'll be glad to try it. But the ltmodem driver does not have it, according to the documentation.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, five are Waltons--the ruling family of the Wal-Mart empire.
S.(Sam) Robson Walton is ranked by London's "Rich List 2001"
as the wealthiest human on the planet, having sacked up more than $65 billion (£45.3 billion) in personal wealth and topping Bill Gates as No. 1.
Alternet.org article here
Yes, you can get a driver at that location.
But, according to the documentation, that driver DOES NOT support the specific chipset used in this particular Lucent modem.
The Lucent driver does not support ALL Lucent modems.
Actually I don't just say predatory pricing - so do all the lawsuits that follow them.
Before we all jump on the WalMart bandwagon just because we think they are taking a swipe at Microsoft, we must remember that this is the company that used its power to force record labels to produce two copies of every album (one nice for Walmart and one naughty for everyone else).
1)No, we are jumping on the WalMart bandwagon because they are giving us an inexpensive choice. Little Mom&Pop stores NEVER give people inexpensive chioces.
Case in point, I tried to buy an inexpensive vacuum cleaner. Nobody had any. My choices were A)Sears, with their Kenmore line of vacuums or B)Small boutique shops with their expensive vacuums (cheapest was 200 bucks).
C)WalMart, with a dozen different vacuums, one of which was about 100 dollars and actually vacuums my carpets now.
2)I don't really care how inconvenient the world is for RIAA-labels. Remember, they're trying to take away our rights.
That is probably because Wal-Mart, number one on the fortune 500 with $220
Billion (with a B) in annual revenue (compared to Microsoft which is 72nd with
$25 Billion), has successfully used predatory pricing to drive out of business
all of the small mom-n-pop businesses and most of their larger competitors.
It is interesting to note that No.1 Wal-Mart made profits
of $6.671 Billion (with a B!), against No. 72 Microsoft profits of
$7.346 Billion. This shows that Wal-Mart's revenue model is based on reach
(likely obtained by driving out small mom-n-pop businesses as you pointed out), while Microsoft is a monopoly milking profits from its market share. I wonder why they are so admired?
Jumping on the Wal-Mart bandwagon because they've taken a small potshot at Microsoft seems akin to supporting Stalin because he's helping us fight Hitler. They're both nasty SOBs.
Wal-Mart has historically priced their competitors out of business much worse than Microsoft by selling things at below cost (hmmm, sound familiar, i.e. IE). Wal-Mart frequently is put up with resistance from neighborhoods, environmental groups, and just about anyone who doesn't want to see another crappy little box put up. I could go on and on about that. Or the fact that Wal-Mart treats their employees like shit. I know Slashdot isn't the place to say it, but Wal-Mart is a much greater evil than Microsoft.
A lot of folks seem to be mentioning the problems with the lucent winmodems not working with Linux. I worked tech support for an ISP(one of the 5 largest)and we couldn't get those damn Lucent modems to work with Windows, let alone anything else.
Consider this: the kind of people buying these naked PCs are a little more advanced users anyway, so I think most of them will be using broadband(with the built in ethernet). Those people will just be happy that the modem is not built in, so they can throw it away and free up a slot on the mobo. That's what I would do.
I don't believe machines sold to the unwashed masses should be pre-loaded with Linux yet. I say this because I remember what happened the first time the Unwashed Masses were exposed to Linux. The 1997-1998 Linux hype (circa RH5.0) has hurt Linux more than you'd believe from what I've observed.
I've seen screwdriver shops load Red Hat 5.x and later on 6.0 (the one that came with GNOME 1.0), as did corporate/gov entities at the time, only to see them recoil in horror and run back to Win9x/NT.
The "Microsoft killer"/"it can do everything you want" hype of the time came too early. There were no integrated environments (RH5.0 came out before KDE 1.0, remember) and even when KDE/GNOME 1 appeared, they were too immature/feature incomplete to be truly useful. GNOME 1.0 even had some serious stability problems IIRC. They were just a sign of greater things to come.
Now, KDE is halfway done dealing with the two last major shortcomings of End-User *nix: printing and font management. (Can't talk about GNOME, since I do not use it.) Once the current transitory period will be over at the XFree86 layer (the move from Xft-1 to Xft-2 and the propagation of the FontConfig library) and that Qt/KDE will have taken advantage of it (ditto GTK2+GNOME2.x), *then* it will be the time to do a push in the non-geek market. But not before.
Right now, geeks can deal with whatever functional shortcomings (or "complications", if you want) that currently exist in Linux/FreeBSD/etc. I know about Xft, my XF86Config-4 file, CUPS and whatnot, but Joe Schmoe User doesn't. He only wants his machine to work. He wants for his printouts to look ok, for the fonts on said printout to more or less match in size & proportions what is on the screen. He does not want to type in a document in OpenOffice/KOffice/whatever (is WordPerfect still selling/working on a Linux version of its OA suite?), get it nice looking on the screen, only to discover that the layout is totally screwed up on the printout.
With a lot of work (too much work?), I am myself getting there, because I'm somewhat of a geek. But I doubt your average non-geek end-user could get good-looking fonts & printouts working on his box. And that's why I strongly believe it would not be a good thing to have Linux pre-loaded on these WalMart machines just yet. We do not want to give a bad initial impression to all those potential users out there.
When Xft-2 and FontConfig come out with XFree 4.3 (I hope), that Qt & GTK are modifed to use this new universal font management functionality, and that KDE & GNOME are consequently modified, *then* I believe would be a good time to start negotiating pre-loading agreements with WalMart and other mass merchandizers (sp?). Mostly because the Unwashed Masses would be less likely to get a bitter after-taste (ok, nasty surprises) than they are right now.
The point is that you cannot approach all those typical non tech-oriented Wal-Mart buyers with the current generation of OSS (KDE/GNOME, XFree, CUPS, etc.) because the chances are too great that the resulting "out-of-the-box" experience will be very negative for them. Once we can virtually guarantee that they won't be badly surprized, once we can provide them with all the functionality they expect to find in a modern-day OS, then we can approach them. Not before.
I think it is just a question of *months*, not years until the OSS universe is ready. We just have to avoid going in too early. Just wait a bit, that's all.
Direct from an MS Rep on the license restrictions imposed by MS.
s /licens ing/OEM_EULA.doc
-----------
It is not permitted that customer uninstall the OEM operating system and
install a lesser or previous version of any Microsoft Operating System
unless the pc is licensed for Windows XP Professional or the customer
has purchased, in addition to the OEM O/S, the upgrade advantage
license. It is highly recommended that all future laptops that are
purchased and "reconfigured", as explained, are licensed for Windows XP.
Please inform your customer of this.
http://www.microsoft.com/business/download
Time to run. How twisted does this make the marketshare of XP look to all of you? MS is essentially falsifying that machines are out there running XP when they really are not.
WalMart can go even further or on a variation of this progressive "No OS" option by having the PC's installed with
"SAM'S CHOICE WAL-INUX"
sans the nasty softmodem.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Sounds like this is a golden opportunity. Someone (Mandrake, RedHat, YOU) should sell a CD for $5 or $10 to WalMart that they can mark up and sell with the computers.
What would it have on it?
How about a simple, installs-itself-on-boot OS running the Linux kernel with support for the modem and everything in these machines built in.
Suddenly you can buy a cheap box, a cheap OS, and everything you need from WalMart. Linux then would get great exposure and look gooooood since it would be so easy for anyone to set up and get going with.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I'd be interested in getting an inexpensive, headless server to install Apple's Darwin on as well as Darwin Streaming Server). Has anyone tried this with these Walmart windows-less systems? Success? Failure? I don't care about the modem, only ethernet. Note, I'm speaking as a person who has never installed any form of Unix on anything, other than indirectly in the form of Mac OS X.
--- What?
"Proper" modems are expensive, winmodems are cheap. Many winmodems do work with Linux- drivers have been written for them. There's no reason not to use one of these. However, it must be one of these...
Boy, some of you /.ers are pretty heartless.
Have YOU ever started a business or have you just been a cog in someone elses' machine all your life?
I guess what i'm getting at is...
WAL-MART IS THE MICROSOFT OF RETAIL.
The "Good Ol' Boy" network crushes the little man time and time again.
No, i am not a "hippy", nor a "bleeding heart liberal", so save your shitty generalizations.
Competition is HEALTHY for our economy.
(not shareholders, but they're rich enough already)
Linux users who are not going to use Windows face a Windows tax when buying a computer from a distribtor like Gateway, granted. However, what incentive would a new user have NOT to pay the Windows "tax"? You may say that the user wishes to save however many dollars extra is costs to have Windows preinstalled, but realize that that money's going to go straight to buying RedHat (or whatever).
Yes,yes, I know these are downloadable for free, but what *newbie* is going to download the image files and burn them to a CD? Unless the newbie wants to try out Linux, I'd wager that the costs for either option are roughly the same. (RedHat 7.2 costing $59.95 - I don't know what the tax is on a Windows OEM version, but I'd bet it's comparable.)
I guess I just don't see how this cheaper model (stripped of the "Windows tax") really saves newbies much money, if any at all...
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
SilentJames you'd better stay silent. I used to think this too. Well, no I think that XP is crap. For me the best Windows versions are (in order) Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows 95/OSR2.
However as for "user-friendly"...I have learned to appreciate WindowMaker on Linux and find it much more friendly to me than any start button.
Recently I did an even more strange thing: I bought my first non-x86 based machine. Yes, I bought an iBook and put OS X on it. That machine is user-friendly...more than any Windows incarnation I ever saw. I barely turn my x86 machine on (which has much more power than this iBook)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
emachines is another inexpensive brand; I have heard various reviews; Any experience trying to buy a OS less emachine or loading Linux on it?
http://www.antitrust.org/cases/walmart/walmart.ht
http://www.massmic.com/walmart.html [there is an informative Boston Globe Article at the bottom of the page];
Rather than keeping Wal-Mart out, small towns should welcome it in. It provides a valuable service. And if it ever got too big for its britches, someone else would come in and undercut it.
Keyword that should have been included in this article is WINMODEM. Drivers have not been distributed with the latest distros of linux, but there is a .org of developers that have Linmodem drivers under construction. Presently beta versions though. Good article though. Walmart should have sold the HW with full HW modems but that would have tacked on another $50.
Jaxs
Okay, first off, corporations are imperfect by definition, so yes, Wal-Mart has done some bad things. I know that personally. But your examples are inane.
Let's say you own a small bookstore. As a retailer, what you do is buy things on one hand and sell them on the other. You put books on your shelves and you hope people buy them.
Do you have an obligation to stock any particular book? If you're a gaming bookstore, are you going to have teachers banging on your door, demanding that you stock more books about science and math? If you do run a science-oriented bookstore, are you going to have Christians banging on your door, demanding that you stock Christian Bibles?
Maybe you will, but you'll send them on their way, or call the police if they get too annoying. And you'll be in the right.
Any retailer has to make decisions about what they will and will not stock. More importantly, any retailer has the unalienable RIGHT to decide what to stock. The size of the retailer has nothing to do with it, because abuse of monopoly power is about things you do to your *competition*. If Wal-Mart would only stock albums from publishers who would not sell to K-Mart (aka Microsoft in reverse), that would be an abuse of a monopoly.
Wal-Mart controls what they put on their shelves. Not you, and not the government. And certainly not the bands or the publishers. Misunderstanding this makes you look like someone who doesn't understand the system. Wal-Mart isn't coercing bands; that's ridiculous. That's like saying you're coercing Hershey's to stop using almonds whenever you buy a candy bar that doesn't have almonds.
Whenever you use an argument like this, think about what you're suggesting. For example, are we suggesting that the government should prevent Microsoft from forcing OEM's to load Windows only? I think so. Do you want to suggest that the government should allow the music publishers to control what Wal-Mart is required to stock on the shelves it owns? I think not.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Are you on crack? Are you not reading what I am typing here? This isn't about having a week of sales for Grand Opening. This is about slashing prices below cost, because you can afford to, until the competition is squashed. Then you raise your prices back to a reasonable level.
Based on your arguments I can only assume that you are a Microsoft sympathizer also. After all, if they want to give away their browser for free then more power to them.
Actually, most of these are after the fact. Small business owners that are near bankruptcy will often band together and try to fight Walmart. Unfortunately, as these things usually go, Walmart has much more money to spend and they usually settle for a token amount.
My Blog. Sela Ward can sell me long distanc
This reply is kinda late, but maybe you get the email when somebody replies to one of your posts. I installed RH6.2 on an emachines Celeron with 32mB of RAM (sorry, don't know the model) something over a year ago. No problems except sound--the included sound card was not recognized, and it turned out it was going to be a largish hassle to get it to function (if it functioned at all--I remember thinking I might be pissing away a lot of time for no results), so I lived without sound till I gave the machine away. Sorry I don't remember the details, but it's the kind of thing you would want to research before you invested money, because a cheap box is only cheap if you don't have to start buying shit to make it work ;)