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Installing Linux On A Wal-Mart OS-less machine
Azar writes "An article at Newsforge details the experience of installing Linux on Wal-Mart's OS-less PC. It states: 'A few months ago, super-sized discount store Wal-Mart made the headlines in the Linux world by becoming the first major U.S. retailer to offer PCs without Windows preloaded...While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux?' Here is your answer." Newsforge is owned by OSDN, which also owns Slashdot, is all part of the sinister Andover keiretsu.
..on the bejken..
As long as you have experience putting linux on a PC, this should be no problem, as long as you don't need a modem; it's a winmodem.
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
That must have been pretty hard. I rate this a 9 on the geek factor. Right up their with the guy who got his HD's to vibrate to make music. Playing the Matrix and Starwars and stuff.
"You win again Gravity!" -Futurama (Zapp)
You bunch of pinkos.
Slashdot, come for the goatse, stay for the trolls.
did walmart use a modem designed for windows on a machine that did not have windows pre-installed?
Sure, that particular modem can be supported under linux (and other operating systems?), but the clear point of these machines was that they did not have windows pre-loaded
so why use components that are designed for windows and often wont work with other operating systems?
The Wal-Mart machine itself strikes me as a very reasonable clone. With the exception of the modem, all the hardware seems to work. I have had to live with useless modems in clones before, but at least this modem is a card that can be removed from the machine. I should also note that Mandrake installed on the box easier than Windows ME did. If I had wanted to keep Windows on the machine, I would have had to manually install drivers for both the ethernet and sound card, because Windows did neither on installation.
So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem. This will set you back $100 but as Franklin said the tree of freedom must be periodically irrigated with the money of fanatics.
Angela Taylor, PhD
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Feminist, scientist, scholar, woman
This post was originally written by prolific Slashdot troller "The Messenger".
Anal intercourse for Linux fans
Linux Buttsex HOWTO
by Anal Cocks
Version 1.0.1, 2nd June 1998
Introduction
This HOWTO explains how to perform Buttsex in the Linux Operating System w/Enterprise Resources (LOSER). This HOWTO assumes basic knowledge of general Linux operation.
Preparation
Most basically, all Linux Buttsex requires is a machine running the Linux Operating System, a penis (also referred to as a "cock" or "dick"), and a willing friend. However, you benefit greatly, especially when starting out, if you posess standard Buttsex tools.
Standard Buttsex Tools
Lubricant - Slippery stuff you smear on your johnson and your friend's manpussy, to ease the transition into Buttsex mode. Vaseline will do in a pinch, but water-based lubricants such as KY Jelly and Astroglide are preferable.
Contraception - Protective barrier between your schlong and the inside of your friend's love canal. Breeders use them to prevent pregnancy, but we queer nancies usually use them to protect ourselves from the deadly AIDS virus. While some enterprising faggots have made do with plastic wrap or masking tape, there is no substitute for a latex condom. Most all condoms will do, as long as they aren't the "extra-thin" type. Some condoms are labelled as beiong superior for Buttsex, but are not necessary.
Step One -- Prepare the Anus
This step is especially important if your friend has never taken a willie in the ass before. Prepare his anus for the width and girth of your manhood with the "finger" command. It is used like so:
% finger [insert your friend's name here]
Begin with your index or middle finger, and then both middle AND index fingers, at the same time. Ten to fifteen minutes should do. If you wish, you may felate him or suck his balls, while you're fingering him.
Step Two -- Entry
Here the fun starts. Have your friend lay prone on the bed, or even better, get down "on all fours". Optionally, place a couple pillows beneath him to make him more comfortable. Now position yourself behind him, and spread his asscheeks. Apply lubricant, generously, to both your sexrod, and his pit of pleasure. It is advisable to stick your fingers partially inside in his anus, to make sure that the entire edge of the entry is covered.
Your penis must be fully erect in order to make a sucessful entry. If you are not already "hard as a rock", you may rub your penis in his asscrack, while tweaking his nipples (or stroking his cock), and saying intimidating things, such as "I am going to make you squeal like a pig, boy. Squeal, like a pig!".
When your sexstick is sufficiently engorged with blood, it is time to begin entry. Place the head of your cock firmly against his brown anal starfish. Begin applying firm pressure forwards, optionally using your hand to guide your dick on a true course into sodomy. Your friend is most likely moaning in agony or yelping, and you may either ignore this, or in a snide tone, say "You like that, bitch?".
When your penis is in, move on to the next step.
Step Three -- Hardcore Assramming
This is fairly simple. Move your dick around in his ass, towards and then back, at varying speeds. If for some reason your dick pops out, put in back in, undaunted. Continue pumping and thrusting until you feel you are ready to move on to Step Four.
Step Four -- Orgasm
When ready to blow your load, use this command:
% stdout > ass
This redirects your standard output stream into your friend's pink tunnel of shit. Enter the command, then with one final thrust, placing the entire length of your cock inside his body. Your penis will then eject about a quart of sticky white semen, accompanied by tremendous pleasure.
Step Five -- Cleanup
If you wore a condom, cleanup is simple. Remove the condom and toss it out your window. Then sop up any other jizz, anal juice, excrement, or lubricant with Brawny(R) brand paper towels.
If you did not wear a condom, your friend will have a steady drip of cum out of his ass for the next few hours. Tell him to "buck up" and stuff some toilet paper in his underwear.
Afterward
Congratulations! You are now a l337 LUN1X 4$$r4mm3r, just like Linux Toreballs and his gay minions! Celebrate by masturbating to the sensual gay erotica found at http://www.goatse.cx/
.
..just buy a new modem instead of wasting countless hours researching and locating that special* Lucent driver.
*Special is defined as any driver created by a retarded 30+ year old male, living in his parents basement that spends 50% of his waking hours masterbating to pictures of his neighbor's dog that he secretly took with his new Argus digital camera, and 50% writing 1337 modem drivers for Linux and bragging to his friends about it on Slashdot.
If you are so worried about the MSFT tax don't buy prebuilt computers, duh.
:-)
That's like worrying about paying a "ford" tax and going to your ford dealer.
Sure building a car is hard but a computer is not. I mean with a proper manual just about anyone could build a PC, mostly little kids could probably do it easily...
Anyways, I bought my PC in parts, no MSFT pre-installed. I had to install it after and I am glad I did.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
8/88888\8888888888888\888888888888/8888\8888888
|8888888|8888888888888\8888888888|888888|888888
|8888888`.8888888888888|888888888|8888888:88888
`88888888|8888888888888|88888888\|8888888|88888
8\8888888|8/8888888/88\\\888--__8\\8888888:8888
88\888888\/888_--~~8888888888~--__|8\88888|8888
888\888888\_-~88888888888888888888~-_\8888|8888
0000\_00000\00000000_.--------.______\|000|0000
000000\00000\______//0_0___0_0(_(__>00\000|000 0
0000000\000.00C0___)00______0(_(____>00|00/000 0
0000000/\0|000C0____)/ \0(_____>00|_/00000
000000/0/\|000C_____) |00(___>000/00\0000
00000|000(000_C_____)\______/00//0_/0/00000\000
00000|0000\00|__000\\_________//0(__/0000000|00
0000|0\0000\____)000`----000--'0000000000000|00
0000|00\_0000000000___\
000|00000000000000/0000| |00\000000000000|
000|0000000000000|0000/ \00\00000000000|0
666|6666666666/6/6666| |66\66666666666|0
666|666666666/6/666666\__/\___/6666|6666666666|
66|66666666666/66666666| |6666666|666666666|
66|6666666666|666666666| |6666666|666666666|
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 /_0000000000_/0|0
8/88888\8888888888888\888888888888/8888\8888888
|8888888|8888888888888\8888888888|888888|888888
|8888888`.8888888888888|888888888|8888888:88888
`88888888|8888888888888|88888888\|8888888|88888
8\8888888|8/8888888/88\\\888--__8\\8888888:8888
88\888888\/888_--~~8888888888~--__|8\88888|8888
888\888888\_-~88888888888888888888~-_\8888|8888
0000\_00000\00000000_.--------.______\|000|0000
000000\00000\______//0_0___0_0(_(__>00\000|000 0
0000000\000.00C0___)00______0(_(____>00|00/000 0
0000000/\0|000C0____)/ \0(_____>00|_/00000
000000/0/\|000C_____) |00(___>000/00\0000
00000|000(000_C_____)\______/00//0_/0/00000\000
00000|0000\00|__000\\_________//0(__/0000000|00
0000|0\0000\____)000`----000--'0000000000000|00
0000|00\_0000000000___\
000|00000000000000/0000| |00\000000000000|
000|0000000000000|0000/ \00\00000000000|0
666|6666666666/6/6666| |66\66666666666|0
666|666666666/6/666666\__/\___/6666|6666666666|
66|66666666666/66666666| |6666666|666666666|
66|6666666666|666666666| |6666666|666666666|
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 /_0000000000_/0|0 asdasdasdasdasd
8/88888\8888888888888\888888888888/8888\8888888
|8888888|8888888888888\8888888888|888888|888888 123456789012345678
|8888888`.8888888888888|888888888|8888888:88888
`88888888|8888888888888|88888888\|8888888|88888
8\8888888|8/8888888/88\\\888--__8\\8888888:8888
88\888888\/888_--~~8888888888~--__|8\88888|8888 123456789012
888\888888\_-~88888888888888888888~-_\8888|8888
0000\_00000\00000000_.--------.______\|000|0000
000000\00000\______//0_0___0_0(_(__>00\000|000 0
a0000000\000.00C0___)00______0(_(____>00|00/000 0
0000000/\0|000C0____)/ \0(_____>00|_/00000
000000/0/\|000C_____) |00(___>000/00\0000
00000|000(000_C_____)\______/00//0_/0/00000\000
00000|0000\00|__000\\_________//0(__/0000000|00
0000|0\0000\____)000`----000--'0000000000000|00
0000|00\_0000000000___\
000|00000000000000/0000| |00\000000000000| alsjdhkjdhkajhakhqwe
000|0000000000000|0000/ \00\00000000000|0
666|6666666666/6/6666| |66\66666666666|0
666|666666666/6/666666\__/\___/6666|6666666666| basyguivfgyaeutgqgjsz
66|66666666666/66666666| |6666666|666666666| GOATSEXGOATS
66|6666666666|666666666| |6666666|666666666| jwqhrowuerir
I would have thought that they'd hire a geek or someone to make sure they didn't use windows-only hardware
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Kudos to the author of this article, as it was genuinely interesting and informative.
These machines are obviously an affordable, functional, and useful personal computing package for the 'alternative' (or perhaps just plain thrifty) user. Perhaps Red Hat or another distribution vendor should strike up a deal with Wal-Mart to bundle copies of Linux with the machines? It's been done before with not a huge amount of success, but Wal-Mart is a pretty powerful distribution mechanism, and the product already exists minus one inexpensive and 'easy-to-include' component.
How long do you think it will take for other hardware vendors to follow a similiar path? Is there enough demand for it? Does Microsoft offer too great an incentive (target market, for example) for vendors to switch away from their platform?
Has anyone tried putting FreeBSD on one of these? I wouldn't expect the modem to fare any better, but it would be interesting to find out whether the rest of the package came up successfully.
Inventor of the LOLbalrog meme.
Hey hey, CmdrTaco here. I have a story in the high school section about my first time, which was with my little brother's hottie friend a couple of months ago.
Anyway, as with most of us guys, masturbation has always been a big part of my life. Ever since I can remember, I've been choking the chicken on a daily basis. Starting puberty at 11, I've masturbated at least once a day ever since. If I miss a day, then I more than make up for it the next time. So, masturbating at least 7 times a week for the past 6 years or so, (I'm now 17), that adds up to a fair amount of cum ejaculated from my ball sac!
One of my favourite things to do while wanking is to stick phallic shaped objects up my ass. These have included my fingers, dildoes, cucumbers and anything basically resembling a cock!
Laying spread-eagled on my bed one day, slowly stroking my uncut 6.5" dick, I massaged my hairless balls between my fingers, moaning loudly. I reached under my bed, feeling for my newly purchased friend, Mr. Cucumber...
Finding the vegetable, I grabbed the lube and slowly lubed it up, spreading some on my expectant asshole. Thinking of what lay ahead, I slid a finger up my puckered boy hole. Then two. After adding a third, I thought it was enough so I set about getting the cucumber ready again.
Rubbing my lubed up swollen knob sent shivers of delight down my back. Doing that was gonna make me cum if I didn't stop! My balls lobbed from side to side with the sudden pick up of pace with which I was beating my meat. I picked up the cucumber and placed the rounded end against my hole, feeling myself opening up for the glorious pleasure maker. Slipping it in sent huge ripples of delight through me. I slowly slid the vegetable in and out, all the time jerking off. After a few minutes of furious beating and fucking, I was very close to cumming.
"Knock, knock...," was all I heard before my best friend Hemos barged in with an armful of school books.
"Whoa! What the hell?" was his shocked response to my little bit of exhibitionism, before bursting into a fit of laughter.
With my gorgeous best friend watching, a cucumber lodged up my ass and my frantically jacking off, it only took me about ten seconds more to burst forth with my sticky white juice. A huge glob flew at Hemos and landed at his feet, before I threw my legs in the air, with the rest of my cum landing on my chest and face.
With Hemos's raucous laughter still in my ears, I slowly pulled my cock, easing the last remaining drops of cum out, putting my fingers to my lips.
"Man, that's fuckin' sick, eating your own cum," he said, grinning.
"Yeah, well, I like the taste," I smiled, "and don't deny you don't do it!" I said, before wiping my finger over each drop of cum on my body and taking it to my hungry mouth.
Hemos continued laughing and started walking out.
"Meet you out front in 5," he said, "give you some time to clean up."
He strolled out, still shaking his head and laughing.
I was very satisfied. Although I have no doubts that Hemos was totally straight, it didn't hurt to fantasise about my tanned and gorgeous friend. His face and body are a recurring image in my masturbatory fantasies.
How many people, who buy computers at Walmart, are willing to installing Linux/read these instructions.
While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux? Some PCs produced today are crammed with "value-added" (otherwise known as "brain dead") hardware that only works with specific drivers -- drivers that are frequently available under Windows alone.
So, in order to get the straight scoop, we went off to the Wal-Mart Web site to purchase a system and load Linux on it.
Choices, choices
As previously mentioned, the Wal-Mart site currently lists 14 machines without an operating system. All are listed under the Microtel brand, and include a selection of Celeron, Duron, Athlon, and Pentium 4 processors ranging from 1 to 2 GHz. The prices range from a consumer-friendly U.S. $398 for a 1 GHz Duron or Celeron box, to a top-end 2 GHz Pentium 4 at U.S. $868. The low end offerings start with a "mere" 128 MB of memory, while the upper end tops out at hefty 512 MB installed. And to think that I still have a few 256 KB (yes, that's one quarter of a megabyte) SIMMs sitting in my drawer. The low end is a heck of a lot nicer than it was just a few years ago.
For the purposes of this review, we ordered a 1 GHz Duron system for U.S. $398. We figured that this would be a relatively popular selection among the more cost-conscious Linux users. With shipping, the total was a manageable U.S. $413. We ordered the PC on the evening of April 11 and it came to my door on April 22.
First look
The order arrived in a single, well-designed shipping box. In addition to the standard mini tower, the system includes a keyboard, a two-button mouse with scroll wheel, a pair of inexpensive speakers, and all the usual cables. The mini tower reminds me of any number of PC clone towers I have seen recently, but people buying these units are interested in functionality, not geek chic. The system also included the manufacturer's booklets for the motherboard and CDROM drive, as well as CDs with Windows drivers.
Inside the unit, there is a 40 GB Samsung drive, 128 MB of memory (8 MB of which is shared as video), and 52x LG CDROM Drive. The motherboard is a Microstar MicroATX motherboard model MS-6378. It has 2 DIMM slots (1 used), 3 PCI slots (one of which is occupied by a modem card), and 1 unused CNR slot. Sound and ethernet are handled on the motherboard, which also sports an Award BIOS dated 2/25/2002.
For those so inclined, the motherboard manual does say that the board supports overclocking, but it also provides the usual warnings about the risks of overclocking. So, it appears that speed freaks may be able to tweak the clock speed at their own risk.
Setting up the system was the same as setting up any standard clone. Plug in the keyboard, mouse, speakers, and power cord. The only essential item that is missing is a monitor (you will probably want to add a mouse pad and a surge suppressor, but those are optional).
Running under DemoLinux V3
For a quick check of the system, I put a DemoLinux version 3 CD in the CDROM drive and booted the system up. I found that the video came up fine using the framebuffer driver. Sound, likewise, was detected without incident. The only two items that did not function on boot-up were the modem and the ethernet. The ethernet was brought to life easily by loading the tulip driver and configuring the network interface. The modem, however, was another matter. I decided to wait to until I actually installed Linux to tackle that problem.
Installing Mandrake 8.1
Figuring that it was time to get serious, I began installing Mandrake version 8.1 on the system. I selected the most automated form of installation (as a Linux newbie might) to see how the process would fare. I was pleased with the results.
The installation went without incident. The Mandrake installer detected and configured the video, sound, and network without pain. At no time was there any indication that the installer was fighting strange hardware. I was thrilled.
But there was one fly in the ointment: the modem. The modem clearly was not a true hardware modem. So, using the "lspci -vv" command from an xterm (you can get the same result by looking at the PCI Information from the KDE Control Center), I tried to identify the type of modem in the machine. It was identified as an unidentified "Lucent Microelectronics" device. Thankfully, this meant that there might be a working Linux driver for this modem.
I traveled to linmodems.org and found the link to Randal Oliveira's site for Lucent drivers. Note that the Lucent drivers require kernel modules that must be recompiled for each version of the kernel, so it is essential that you either find a module that is compiled against the appropriate kernel, or else you will need to compile it yourself. After a couple of minutes, I located an RPM that someone had created for the Lucent drivers under Mandrake 8.1. After downloading and installing the RPM, I decided to reboot to see if the device would now be found on startup. Much to my delight, it was!
Unfortunately, my delight did not last. When I actually tried to use the modem, I found that the AT commands all worked as expected, but I could not get the modem to go off hook, recognize the dial tone, or generate touch tones. I spent hours on this with no joy.
Running under SuSE v7.2 Live Eval
Next, I wanted to see how SuSE Linux would handle the machine. I didn't have a full SuSE kit on hand, but I did have a V7.2 Live Evaluation CD handy. Like DemoLinux, this allows you to run SuSE Linux from the CD with no actual installation. I found that the SuSE Live Eval system detected everything fine, except for the modem. Not a bad result from a non-installed system.
Installing Red Hat v7.1
I then tried to install Red Hat V7.1 and found results close to my Mandrake experience. Everything loaded fine, except for the sound card and modem. The sound card was quickly activated by choosing the automatic configuration option from the sound configuration utility. I then downloaded a copy of the Lucent modem driver for Red Hat V7.1 and promptly found that the modem was behaving exactly as it did under Mandrake. The AT commands all seemed to work until you attempted to dial. The phone line never went off-hook and touch tones were never generated.
After several hours of investigation on the Web and experimentation, I could not find an answer. I tried different IRQs, changed settings in the CMOS, checked the phone line ... nothing.
So, in my desperation, I decided to confirm that the darn modem actually worked. I pulled an unused Windows ME distribution off the shelf, installed it, and loaded the modem driver. To my surprise, the modem dialed the phone. I checked the settings under Windows and found they were identical to the default settings detected under Linux.
I reloaded Red Hat and played some more. No change. I could get replies to the AT commands, but I could not get it to do anything remotely productive with the telephone line. There may be a solution to this, but it certainly isn't obvious.
Conclusion
The Wal-Mart machine itself strikes me as a very reasonable clone. With the exception of the modem, all the hardware seems to work. I have had to live with useless modems in clones before, but at least this modem is a card that can be removed from the machine. I should also note that Mandrake installed on the box easier than Windows ME did. If I had wanted to keep Windows on the machine, I would have had to manually install drivers for both the ethernet and sound card, because Windows did neither on installation.
So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem.
Installing Linux on a Wal-Mart OS-less PC
... nothing.
Monday April 29, 2002 - [ 09:47 AM GMT ]
Topic - Hardware - By Russell C. Pavlicek -
A few months ago, super-sized discount store Wal-Mart made the headlines in the Linux world by becoming the first major U.S. retailer to offer PCs without Windows preloaded. At this writing, the Walmart.com Web site lists no less than 14 PCs available without an operating system.
While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux? Some PCs produced today are crammed with "value-added" (otherwise known as "brain dead") hardware that only works with specific drivers -- drivers that are frequently available under Windows alone.
So, in order to get the straight scoop, we went off to the Wal-Mart Web site to purchase a system and load Linux on it.
Choices, choices
As previously mentioned, the Wal-Mart site currently lists 14 machines without an operating system. All are listed under the Microtel brand, and include a selection of Celeron, Duron, Athlon, and Pentium 4 processors ranging from 1 to 2 GHz. The prices range from a consumer-friendly U.S. $398 for a 1 GHz Duron or Celeron box, to a top-end 2 GHz Pentium 4 at U.S. $868. The low end offerings start with a "mere" 128 MB of memory, while the upper end tops out at hefty 512 MB installed. And to think that I still have a few 256 KB (yes, that's one quarter of a megabyte) SIMMs sitting in my drawer. The low end is a heck of a lot nicer than it was just a few years ago.
For the purposes of this review, we ordered a 1 GHz Duron system for U.S. $398. We figured that this would be a relatively popular selection among the more cost-conscious Linux users. With shipping, the total was a manageable U.S. $413. We ordered the PC on the evening of April 11 and it came to my door on April 22.
First look
The order arrived in a single, well-designed shipping box. In addition to the standard mini tower, the system includes a keyboard, a two-button mouse with scroll wheel, a pair of inexpensive speakers, and all the usual cables. The mini tower reminds me of any number of PC clone towers I have seen recently, but people buying these units are interested in functionality, not geek chic. The system also included the manufacturer's booklets for the motherboard and CDROM drive, as well as CDs with Windows drivers.
Inside the unit, there is a 40 GB Samsung drive, 128 MB of memory (8 MB of which is shared as video), and 52x LG CDROM Drive. The motherboard is a Microstar MicroATX motherboard model MS-6378. It has 2 DIMM slots (1 used), 3 PCI slots (one of which is occupied by a modem card), and 1 unused CNR slot. Sound and ethernet are handled on the motherboard, which also sports an Award BIOS dated 2/25/2002.
For those so inclined, the motherboard manual does say that the board supports overclocking, but it also provides the usual warnings about the risks of overclocking. So, it appears that speed freaks may be able to tweak the clock speed at their own risk.
Setting up the system was the same as setting up any standard clone. Plug in the keyboard, mouse, speakers, and power cord. The only essential item that is missing is a monitor (you will probably want to add a mouse pad and a surge suppressor, but those are optional).
Running under DemoLinux V3
For a quick check of the system, I put a DemoLinux version 3 CD in the CDROM drive and booted the system up. I found that the video came up fine using the framebuffer driver. Sound, likewise, was detected without incident. The only two items that did not function on boot-up were the modem and the ethernet. The ethernet was brought to life easily by loading the tulip driver and configuring the network interface. The modem, however, was another matter. I decided to wait to until I actually installed Linux to tackle that problem.
Installing Mandrake 8.1
Figuring that it was time to get serious, I began installing Mandrake version 8.1 on the system. I selected the most automated form of installation (as a Linux newbie might) to see how the process would fare. I was pleased with the results.
The installation went without incident. The Mandrake installer detected and configured the video, sound, and network without pain. At no time was there any indication that the installer was fighting strange hardware. I was thrilled.
But there was one fly in the ointment: the modem. The modem clearly was not a true hardware modem. So, using the "lspci -vv" command from an xterm (you can get the same result by looking at the PCI Information from the KDE Control Center), I tried to identify the type of modem in the machine. It was identified as an unidentified "Lucent Microelectronics" device. Thankfully, this meant that there might be a working Linux driver for this modem.
I traveled to linmodems.org and found the link to Randal Oliveira's site for Lucent drivers. Note that the Lucent drivers require kernel modules that must be recompiled for each version of the kernel, so it is essential that you either find a module that is compiled against the appropriate kernel, or else you will need to compile it yourself. After a couple of minutes, I located an RPM that someone had created for the Lucent drivers under Mandrake 8.1. After downloading and installing the RPM, I decided to reboot to see if the device would now be found on startup. Much to my delight, it was!
Unfortunately, my delight did not last. When I actually tried to use the modem, I found that the AT commands all worked as expected, but I could not get the modem to go off hook, recognize the dial tone, or generate touch tones. I spent hours on this with no joy.
Running under SuSE v7.2 Live Eval
Next, I wanted to see how SuSE Linux would handle the machine. I didn't have a full SuSE kit on hand, but I did have a V7.2 Live Evaluation CD handy. Like DemoLinux, this allows you to run SuSE Linux from the CD with no actual installation. I found that the SuSE Live Eval system detected everything fine, except for the modem. Not a bad result from a non-installed system.
Installing Red Hat v7.1
I then tried to install Red Hat V7.1 and found results close to my Mandrake experience. Everything loaded fine, except for the sound card and modem. The sound card was quickly activated by choosing the automatic configuration option from the sound configuration utility. I then downloaded a copy of the Lucent modem driver for Red Hat V7.1 and promptly found that the modem was behaving exactly as it did under Mandrake. The AT commands all seemed to work until you attempted to dial. The phone line never went off-hook and touch tones were never generated.
After several hours of investigation on the Web and experimentation, I could not find an answer. I tried different IRQs, changed settings in the CMOS, checked the phone line
So, in my desperation, I decided to confirm that the darn modem actually worked. I pulled an unused Windows ME distribution off the shelf, installed it, and loaded the modem driver. To my surprise, the modem dialed the phone. I checked the settings under Windows and found they were identical to the default settings detected under Linux.
I reloaded Red Hat and played some more. No change. I could get replies to the AT commands, but I could not get it to do anything remotely productive with the telephone line. There may be a solution to this, but it certainly isn't obvious.
Conclusion
The Wal-Mart machine itself strikes me as a very reasonable clone. With the exception of the modem, all the hardware seems to work. I have had to live with useless modems in clones before, but at least this modem is a card that can be removed from the machine. I should also note that Mandrake installed on the box easier than Windows ME did. If I had wanted to keep Windows on the machine, I would have had to manually install drivers for both the ethernet and sound card, because Windows did neither on installation.
So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem.
(Reposted from an eariler story -- worth reading.)
It is now official - a Slashdot poll has confirmed: Slashdot is dyingYet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Slashdot community when recently a poll on the site confirmed that up-to-date and factually-correct stories account for less than 40 percent of all submitted news stories, that the user-moderation system has fallen to pieces through the oppressive power of the editors, and that subscribers don't need to pay and can use such software as JunkBuster to filter out adverts. Coming on the heels of the latest MSNBC survey which plainly states that Slashdot has lost more readers, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Slashdot is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Kuro5hin technology site popularity test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Slashdot's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Slashdot faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for it because Slashdot is dying. Things are looking very bad for the site. As many of us are already aware, Slashdot continues to lose readers. Red ink flows like a river of blood. The subscribers scheme is the most endangered of them all, having lost 62% of its paying readers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
Slashdot editor Rob Malda (CmdrTaco) states that there are 700 paying subscribers to Slashdot. How many normal readers are there? Let's see. The number of subscriber versus reader posts on Slashdot is roughly in ratio of 1 to 4. Therefore there are about 700*4 = 2800 normal casual readers. Anonymous Coward posts are about half of the volume of the typical posts. Therefore there are about 1400 readers who can't be bothered setting up an account. A recent article put the Trolls, who post sexual insults, foul ASCII art pictures and links to vile sites, at about 80 percent of the Slashdot readership. Therefore there are (700+8400+4200)*4 = 19600 trolling readers. This is consistent with the number of Troll posts.
Due to the troubles of Andover.net, abysmal hit counts and so on, Slashdot went out of business and was taken over by OSDN who run another troubled site. Now OSDN is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that Slashdot has steadily declined in readership. It is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Slashdot is to survive at all it will be among geeky hobbyist dabblers. Slashdot continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Slashdot is dead.
So why now? Why did Slashdot fail? Once you get over the myriad of incompatible personalities, particularly among the editors who have repeatedly failed to check for serious inaccuracies in their stories (see the FreeBSD 4.5 "release" as a shocking example), it's clear that subscribers will continue to decrease. Using software such as JunkBuster, readers can eliminate adverts without having to pay any money. These two significant factors, along with the corrupted "moderation" scheme (where editors have infinite power over the regular moderators), only confirm yet further that Slashdot's glory days are coming to an end.
Fact: Slashdot is dying
I would have withheld judgement if I knew you'd be publishing a link to an article about installing an OS on a PC.
--gazbo, looking forward to articles investigating installing 'food' into a 'fridge'.
So it seems you're all too inept to install an OS on a *gasp* OS-less machine? This all seems very laugable, seeing as the lot of you is incapable of lacing your own shoes. What I find funniest about this situation is the FACT that slashdot has run this story for a group of fringe-OS fuckers who should already know how to do this. Way to go, He^Homos, you're a pantywaste Luser.
if someone can learn how to use/install linux on a pc, they can also learn how to build their own PC. I applaud the effort by walmart, but after that snazzy processor they mention i have no doubt there is a no name motherboard, crappy generic ram, a slow 5400rpm hd, etc.
:)
Build your own, you will feel better in the morning
Someone installed Linux! On a computer!! The modem didn't work!!! Do you know what this means?!?!?!?!
At Wal-Marts website at the bottom of the page that features the Windows-less machines is the following note with respective links:
See all computers without operating systems. Also, check out our selection of Linux books.
Yes folks, they are PROMOTING Linux for these machines. So it might be possible that they could bundle a distro with the pc in the future.
Will these OS-less boxes help promote more widespread use of Linux, or will they just screw over computer-illiterates who thought they found a really good deal?
...or both?
Walmart's selling of OS-less computers is a good thing --- but only if Linux can take advantage of it.
I came away from reading the article with the feeling that unless improvements to ease of installation of Linux is forthcoming, Walmart may soon be forced to end its ``experiment.'' While the writer's experience during his test was satisfactory, the non-activation of the modem prevented it from being perfect. Any consumer buying these machines with the intent of ``trying out linux'' may be queueing for a disappointment.
May I suggest that RedHat or Mandrake or SuSE send a technical team to Walmart with the express aim of training the technical and sales people of Walmart on how to choose components so that the installation of Linux will then be brainless? The training should be done gratis. The financial payback will come when enough consumers are able to take the linux plunge successfully.
Some of the followups to that article mention that a working version of the modem driver can be obtained from http://www.heby.de/ltmodem.
Given this, it would be nice if someone could put together a complete linux distro (complete with the OpenOffice suite, etc.) ready-to-run on this box. Heck, maybe we could even convince Wal-Mart to give it away with every box!
So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem. I have more respect for Wal-Mart now. I used to scoff at shopping there, but if they can produce this kind of barebones system, at a very low cost, that can handle Windows and Linux with equal ease then the state of the computer as a home appliance is improving greatly. As for me, I buy my computers from a friend who owns a computer store so I probably won't be getting one myself.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
If this is as close as we come to the too-common bashing of Wal-Mart stores and customers, we're doing pretty good!
Would be a dog on a sled. No no, a cat on a jetski! Ohh, no, more like, a walnut in a frying pan! Ohh ohh ohh, I know, its like a tulip in a Frenchmans soup! Yeah, thats it!
ok, so we don't have to pay for the microsoft tax... thats all well and good. How much do we save?
i see $799 for a P4 based system, no monitor (that could be $150-300), possibly a no name motherboard, possibly generic ram (and only 256mb), probably a slow 5400rpm hd.
am i saving anything? i could build a computer with much better specs with the same money. Maybe if they cut the MS tax AND didn't try to ream the customers with the amount of profit they want to make, then it'd be a good deal.
As one of the people on the original site pointed out, WalMart isn't the only store chain selling discount machines. Best Buy for example advertises an eMachines computer with comparable hardware (20GB hard drive as opposed to 40GB, but it has 4 USB ports, which I didn't see mentioned in the WalMart box), *and* it comes with WindowsXP Home Edition *and* a software bundle, and it costs $475 - $75 mail-in rebate. Now, I know, it's an eMachines, and their reputation is less than stellar, but if used as a desktop and not a server it should be adequate. And assuming I bought this thing with no intention of upgrading / changing any of the hardware inside (not true, I'd at least put in a network card in it), I'll take USB over the extra 20GB.
And no, *I* wouldn't be using Windows. I'd put RedHat on it instead. But, as an overall bundle, the BestBuy machine may be a better package, MSFT tax or not.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
I see Wal-Marts everywhere, but only rarely can find a Best Buy.
:)
Maybe cheap windowsless PC's aggressively marketed and bundled with Linux could be part of Kmart's recovery strategy. Put the Penski name on it
Another value of this is that people who own old copies of Windows can install those instead of getting pulled into MS latest cash cow. For the average user who is happy with MS it saves a lot of money and requires zero learning.
He forgot to demonstrate what happens when his average Wal-Mart user decides to install that flashy game they just bought only to find that it only works in Windows.
The results of the linux installations were quite impressive to me. Especially the results with the sound card. I actually still have never gotten the sound to work on the two linux distros I've installed. (Red Had and SUSE). Although I haven't researched it too much, as sound wasn't high on my priority list. However, now that I am using Linux more and more, I would really like to have the sound working properly.
The most interesting thing was that he pointed out that Linux did a better job of installing than Windows XP, which is supposed to be able to detect nearly everything, but it didn't even detect the crappy modem.
Now if Wal-mart only had stores in Europe... One of those cheap clones would make a decent additional machine...
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Did it EVER occur to you people that, uhh... just maybe... Walmart has no intentions whatsoever of selling these to you? None! At all! They could care less about any person who reads slashdot! You don't matter! The only computer without an OS from Walmart that's going to be sold to a competent computer user is the one used for this review. Don't applaud Walmart, don't give them a hand, don't go buy something there. This is not, in any way, an advancement in the open-source movement!
Now, maybe some of you can get a clue!
If installing and running Linux is, as you imply, as difficult as the hassle and great time expense of building your own PC, then Linux is clearly not ready for the mass market yet.
I think most Wal-mart shoppers will probably just pirate a copy of the 'ol Windows.
Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
It would have also been nice to throw in a piece of paper with instructions about your choices for an operating system to load, including a note that to install Windows, you must buy a full-price retail copy of it.
I'm all for getting rid of the Microsoft tax, but this just smacks of promoting piracy, frustrating users, and adding fuel to microsoft's arguments about how bad an idea naked PCs are.
On the other hand, if it never had an OEM Windows PC on it, you don't have to worry about violating the law for removing it...
Didn't widen my page
Wall mart machines are cheap. So cheap modoem is to be expected. I preffer HP desktops w/o OS (I would like to see Dell w/o Windows, but that takes time because you have to preorder it so). Any linux runs great without setting anything.
The only thing that makes me sad is thay are adding Mandrake 8.0 as Linux kit. They should probably go with the flow and include something newer (Tested Mdk 8.2 runs perfectly immidietly after install).
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
The wording on this law seems to be so vague that it could be satisfied perhaps by taping the Windows install CD to the back of the case.
Write to Wal-mart customer services and point out how silly it is to include a WinModem with an OS-less PC. Ask if they will be supplying proper modems with their PCs in future.
A couple of years ago, beowulf clusters was made from a bunch of 'relatively' cheap ALPHAs. I wonder if there will be a new breed of beowulf clusters, made from a bunch a REALLY cheap Sam Walton branded PCs? :-)
:-)
Can you imagine a rack full of PCs with the sticker "Sam's Choice" on them all? LOL
Just thought that I'd give you all a chuckle....
Read that a while ago. The article is partially fiction rabid foam from the far-left. Typical of Hightower's left-fascist ranting.
So instead of supporting one brutal and heartless corp. you're supporting another.
Did you know: Wal-Mart takes out life insurance policies on it's "lower end" employees
(ie. ones with higher death risk, truck drivers, security)
-without the knowledge of the employee or their families-
They actually profit from a workers' DEATH.
just a little something to think about...
-=CHUD ---who shops at small shops that actually appreiciate my business
I was very glad to hear that most distros installed on the machine with no trouble I was thinking about getting one these things myself.
_ __
I hear some people painting the winmodem experience as typical but I have used the ltmodem packages on four different machines with great results. Below in some of the comments it is explaining that this particular one is a chipset that is not really supported. Still, the ltmodem modules work great for the winmodem in my Dell 4000 right now.
What I like is that he did not just install one distro and let it go at that. He installed multiple distros which gives a reviewer a much nicer base of experience to speak from.
Read carefully his experiences with the install. It just goes to show linux installs are getting much easier and autodetection is very good.
There are still gotchas (his was the modem) but anyone not using Windows pre-loaded from the manufacturer to work with that machine will come up with at least one install gotcha. My gotcha was the free Umax scanner that came with my laptop. Xsane still has no driver for it because of Umax's bull-headedness. The funny thing is that Dell started selling the Epson 1250 after that and I hear they work great with Linux. Argh!
_______________________________________________
ACK
Wouldn't it have been better to compare these distrubutions to, say, Windows 2000 or XP Home? Or at least 98SE?
I mean, I think ME is pretty widely regarded as the suckiest Windows there is. It's also based on the old DOS kernel. Wouldn't it be better to compare Linux to Microsoft's more robust NT? There would at least be newer drivers in 2000 and XP.
Also, checking Mandrake and Redhat's sites, it seems as though these reviewers were comparing fairly new distributions against a fairly old Microsoft OS (released before W2K, AFAIK).
I just don't think that saying that these distributions were easier to install than Windows ME is saying too much. Besides, people will still want to install Windows, regardless of the ease of installation of these distributions. Now, if the machines came preloaded with Mandrake, or something like that, it MIGHT be SLIGHTLY different. But, I just don't see where many "regular" users are going to install Linux. They like Windows, it works, and they've got the old CD already. Their friends use it, too. And they use it at work, as well.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
-motardo
(and yes, i know that Everything 2 is part of the Keiretsu too.)
To all whinging about the modem: I recall the modem wouldn't pick up under any OS, Mandrake, SuSE, or WinMe. It was a dud.
Of interest, the WinMe was the least newbie friendly, requireing the manual loading of some 3rd party drivers.
"Remember, any tool can be the right tool." -- Red Green
"They actually profit from a workers' DEATH."
So? Movie companies similarly "profit" from an actor's death. Families "profit" from a Papa's death. That is how insurance works.
Small shops? I'd rather go to Wal-Mart.
has sucessfully used predatory pricing to drive out of business all of the small mom-n-pop
They are all gone, huh? How do you account for the fact then that mon and pop still outnumber Walmarts by a great magnitude? Oops. try again.
used its power to force record labels
They didn't "force" anything.
I would suggest you all consider NOT shopping at Walmart -- for anything at all -- read this please
/. headline states) Labour Day everywhere else in the world but Canada, USA and SouthAfrica. Did you know May Day became Labour Day because of the American Labour Movement? Read a little history here
It is very sad that this story is also posted on May Day, which is (as another
We all know what will really happen with these machines: a "windows geek" will burn a copy of windows and install it. It's wrong, of course, but I'm willing to wager that's what will be the fate of the majority of these machines. Yes, maybe some will have Linux for a time, but when the lack of familar Apps becomes known, I don't see it lasting long. I suppose some may even get a legit copy of windows, but considering that these are bargain-basement units, it seems dubious that the owner will be willing to spring the ~$100 bucks for something that can be had "for free".
Again, honest assessment: the various distributions of Linux couldn't handle the modem out of the box. This is a fatal flaw, as I suspect a primary function of these boxes will be as internet connectivity. And to be even more blunt, it's a problem windows hasn't had since the 3.1 days.
I know, I know, the hardware manufacturers are in bed with MS, making essentially OS-specific components, particularly winmodems. However, not to be elitist, I suspect the Wal-Mart crowd is not going to be that interested in such issues. They, and the vast majority of users, just want a system that works. They just plopped down $400, comparable to a decent stereo component. They'll be miffed if it doesn't do what a computer is supposed to be able to do.
Why include a PCI modem when the thing has a CNR slot?
Why make me pay another 10-15$?
Everyone knows people buy naked pc's to install pirated copies of windows.
Only a handful of geeks will actually install linux on these machines.
Not that I support MS's(please note, I wrote MS, not M$ to be uber-k3wl like you) bid against naked pc's, as we should be able to purchase them naked(just as I build them naked. No really, I'm naked when i build them: pics), but they have a point.
security through obscurity = modding down anti-linux posts so maybe noone will see them
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp? customer_id=04&keycode=6W300&order_code=dim44pri
599 with 100$ rebate.. Pentium IV 1.7ghz. Call their small business line and tell them you need it sans OS because you want linux on it. Boom. Your price is now $399 for a Pentium IV 1.7
I can assume that you have some association with Walmart to be so blindly patriotic to a company that has left so many businesses in ruin in its climb to the top. Do a search on Google for Walmart and predatory pricing and then come back here and post.
No, I just support their right to provide a better deal.
They only said that they will not carry albums with parental warning labels. You decide whether that is forcing or not.
Of course it is their choice, not forcing. Every merchant has a right to choose whether or not to sell a product. Duh!
Or, go to http://www.unitedmicro.com, configure a PC
to your heart's content and don't ask for any operating
system in the configurator. Then call them up on
the phone [I know, I know, that's SO last century]
and tell them you'll send them a linux CD. They'll
make sure that there are no incompatibilities encountered
in a bare minimum linux installation. Since you know that the
components are compatible, wipe off their bare linux installation
and DIY after the PC arrives.
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
All he tested was a Duron at 1GHz. I would like to see the results from doing the same tests with the higher end models. The way he made it sound, you could get a much better PC for about $600 and most of the components would probably be PCI and not wired to the motherboard. When you get the lowest of low end, like a Duron, it frequently comes with one of those do-it-all motherboards that has substandard (in my opinion) components, such as the modem and ethernet interface.
It was a thorough review of the low end machine, I admit, but I'd really like to see how the higher end machines performed. $880, or whatever he said the max price was, isn't that much for a 2Ghz machine with 512MB ram, and I think that would still be a "price concious" buy for a linux user.
~ now you know
Wouldn't you imagine that someone skilled enough to install and use Linux would build their own machine in the first place?
Common sense is not so common.
They'd install a pirated version of Windows like everyone else does. With all those cracks/serialz out there Windows is esentially free (as in beer) software anyway.
Hightower is known for playing fast and loose with the facts. Reading "between the lines", Hightower seems most angry that Wal-mart protects its workers from the depradations of union thugs who want to force Wal-mart workers into unions.
or what if Walmart hosted install days?
Advertise for customers to order the PCs up to a week or two in advance to allow for delivery. Then have them return to the store on the selected Saturday & Sunday to pick up their new PC and have Linux installed on site for free by local geeks. They could sell books and distros near the install area. I'd do it at the local Walmart, no problem.
And I bet RH would supply tons of free CD kits. Hell, use one of the machines to burn CDs for the customers! That'll freak 'em out for sure.
Intelligent Life on Earth
"Linux Installed on Standard PC"--STOP THE PRESSES!
I started to think of why in the world they put this modem in this machine. All of the sudden conspiracy theories raced through my mind, one after the other, non-stop terror. Aggghhhhhhh they are watching me!!!!! Then, after an elongated burp all of the sillyness left my body and then I realized the truth, for very little money they gave you CRAP. However, it wasn't your average variety of crap, it was the worst kind, CHEAP crap!
So, right now you are thinking, what is the moral here, what are we to learn? Well, here it is kids, buy cheap crap and get crappy results!
Make a note kids, buy from Walmart selectively. Just because they call it a "computer department" and it has the smile face logo thing (that signifies savings to the customer) doesn't mean that they have quality stuff there. Want a computer that uses Linux, you should be smart enough to go out and build your own (check out mwave.com for best results).
. . . and to all good night!
"Entertain the Brutes"
"Hi, we have these great PC's for $$$.$$ and Linux for dummies for $$.$$ and a boxed Mandrake distro for $$.$$"
The boxed Mandrake distro, the Linux® For Dummies® book, or even Lycoris Desktop/LX costs about the same as the Windows OEM license.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There seem to be a lot of articles at the moment about people installing linux on (almost) normal hardware - whats the point? Is there really anyone reading /. who couldn't do this themselves?
Your message is one of those that strongly implies that Linux is very difficult to install and use. Other messages under this item contradict this.
How much would it cost W'mart to sell these machines with a pre-loaded Linux image? Surely if they cut a gold image it would only cost a few cents to ghost them onto the hard drives before they went into the machines? Or they could produce a "recovery CD", which restores a Linux image which works on that hardware?
How much better for the customer to go home with a system which they can plug in and start playing nethack straight away without having to obtain and install a Linux distro.
And it would annoy the crap out of M$.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
just a random thought - would a company still qualify for the MS OEM reduction, if they sold an OS-less pc, but included a cd of a linux distro, without actually installing it?
- The Individualist Anarchist
Look, you are viewing this backward I think. Maybe I'm the one viewing it backward. The point is this, however.
Wal-Mart does not care about the people who are usually shopping at Wal-Mart when they are selling them these computers. This, in my humble opinion, was never about the typical Wal-Mart shopper.
Someone in Wal-Mart management was only just savvy enough to recognize that there was a computer community in full force that did not want to have Windows on their computer. It goes back to the basics of supply and demand.
There is a community of people demanding that computers be available without Microsoft anything.
There is now a supplier of computers without Microsoft anything.
Now, with news sites like Slashdot running stories on it. More people are going to be saying to themselves. "I could hit walmart.com, pick up a new clone and drop linux on it." Some of them might even be saying "I could drop my existing copy of Windows on it."
Even if the machine isn't a major name brand, Wal-Mart has more people than ever looking their way now because of this. With the whole Microsoft trial, and the all the anti-Microsoft sentiment right now, this is probably just the thing for Wal-Mart to do.
Even if they can't pull in the "build it yourself" crowd. Joe Sixpack has heard from all his buddies who are in the crowd how bad the "Microsoft Tax" really is. Even if they end up installing Windows anyway, these machines still get a quick look.
The only thing I can say is that it appears to be a win/win situation for Wal-Mart.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Rollin' Back Prices, Every Day
Always LOOOW Prices
Really, at this point, "win" modems work well in several alternative operating systems. I prefer to call them "software" modems..
Anyway, i have found it easier to use a "win" modem then this old 14.4 ISA modem I have. "Win" modems work almost right out of the box with linux...this thing is a pain in the ass. It dials, but never connects, and doesn't take the IRQ settings you give it(It is ALWAYS causing conflicts, and wont go to an unused IRQ....even when using the hardware switches..)
the least interesting artcile i've ever read on slashdot. I want my lifetime back.
Why doesn't Wal-Mart just preinstall linux themselves on these? It would expose Linux to people who otherwise probably wouldn't try it, and hey.. maybe they'll even like it and keep it!
If you read the page for the machines, it explicitly says "or if you have an alternative operating system, such as Linux" and has a link to "over 200" Linux books. I think this is great!!!
As to the modem, all I would care is that they state it is a Winmodem, which allows me to decide if that is important to me.
If it keeps the overall price down and let's *me* decide if I want a modem (which I wouldn't), then I don't see any problem whatsoever. I can understand their desire to have *a* modem, from a marketing perspective.
The system also included the manufacturer's booklets for the motherboard and CDROM drive, as well as CDs with Windows drivers.
I know it's only windows drivers, but I'd say this package is much better than other systems out there with Windows pre-installed. Every time I have to reinstall windows on a ComCrap computer, I have to hunt down drivers on compaq's site, as well as driverguide.com. I wish every store-bought computer came with a CD containing drivers on it.
$cat
When I was a kid we had these really cool stores in town, Lafayette Electronics and Radio Shack (not to confused with the fairly useless RS nowadays.) They sold all kinds of do-it-yourself kits to make radios, metal detectors, winky-blinkies, etc. They also sold generic bare circuit boards you could build your own projects out of Pop. Electronics (aw heck, now I'm getting all nostalgic *sniff*) with your handy Weller soldering pen.
Did this encourage budding electronic enthusiasts to steal parts from Lafayette/Radio Shack to build these? Nah, not unless they were already unethical people, and it's best to realize right away that you can't force your ethics on other people, if they're of that stripe then they'll do whatever anyway. As for my brothers and friends, we bought parts at Hamfests, scrapped industrial electronics, even picked a few TV's off the curbs the night before trash pickup.
Do everyone a favor and try to be less of a pessimist.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Please write to them in friendly, non-condesending words how helpful it is to offer non-winmodem PC's, of make modem an option. Being a jerk is unlikely to have your letter read past the "Dear Bloated Sack of Protoplasm" salutation. It's a big step for Wal-Mart, love 'em or hate 'em, and if it's a success than others will likely follow suit. If Wal-Mart sees it as a failure and the type of customer they've attracted as obnoxious jerks, the decision to drop it and declare it a bad business decision will be that much easier.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I like the name "WNW Windows" - Window's Not Windows Windows
I installed 2k Pro for non-profit on one of their 1.4 athlon's. It came with good driver cd's for M$ products. A bit loud, but working fine.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
It has a winmodem, which I couldn't get to work. Don't know whether BTC has their own propretary driver module or if there is really an open-source driver available. Anyway, I just ended up buying an external modem for $30 on e-bay, and that works fine.
A few minor problems: I had to turn on sw_cursor in my XF86Config, because the video card's hardware acceleration feature for drawing the mouse cursor wasn't working correctly. (This was an intermittent bug that would show up every day or two.) Ethernet also didn't work correctly at first. Had to download the mii and 8139too modules and add the relevant insmod lines to rc.modules.
Find free books.
Sorry, I know people who work there. It is not rocket science, its simple retail. To expect any retailer to pay more than the local wage for such work is nothing short of ignorance. At least they CAN get medical benefits. It seems Congress only attempts to make it more unaffordable as each week goes by. It *IS* Congress that will make health benefits for the lower income people even less affordable, that is their goal. They want to make sure employers like WALMART cannot afford to provide it. Why? Simple, Congress (read DNC) wants the government to control health care. The easy way to do it is to make it unaffordable for corporations to do it.
Sorry, that article is the typical mud slinging crap that always shows up. Walmart is successful, and those that I do know who work there are just happy as can be. Apparently they know they are not going to get paid 60k a year... and don't feel they deserve to.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The source code compiles fine and a script complete the installation. There is even pre-packaged drivers for many distros including: RedHat and Debian. So, yes it is not straight forward, but is not as painful as recompiling the kernel.
Achille Talon
Hop!
How much does an OEM license cost? In other words, what is the price difference for the same naked machine as opposed to buying it with some version of MS Windows on it? Is the difference full price for the MS Windows like if you were to buy the boxed package from a retail store?
Wal Mart's can be hard to find in cities, so many people may not know what a godsend they are to rural america. WalMart stores are typically located on cheap land--which is mostly rural America and out suburbs of the some large towns they can be found in. It's very similar to how Southwest on flies into and out of cities/airports with cheap airport fees and terminal space.
:)
And I encourage you to look at WalMart's prices and compare with others. They _are_ pretty damn low. Even in the small rural towns where Wal Mart has already put small mom & pop stores out of business and cornered the market. This is about the only downside of WalMart's--the little guys can't compete with them.
They provide many items which may not be sold in the immediate area also (shopping selection in rural America tends to be very limited). They have a good distrobution system where the ship the things that aren't selling real well in one location to another where they are during the night via truck. For instance, during the Missouri floods they would bring in sand, shovles, flashlights from other stores and ship things like riding lawnmowers and plastic play pools out.
This sounds more like a hit piece against corporations/Fortune 10 than truth. The article is seething with angst and loathing from the denotations of the adjecives and adverbs used.
Also remember, Sams is also connected to the Waltons and contributes heftily to the profits also. Anyone who has bought one bag of chicken wings for $10 to feed themselves for a month knows the joy of Sams
- Sig
I know it has on-board video (using the 8MB shared system memory), but does anyone know if it has an AGP slot so I can plug in my own 3D video card if I have one?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Some one else may have noted this already [I only checked the high rated] but the bigger market for these boxes is for small businesses that have working Win 95/98 systems and do not want to pay for Win XP only to pay someone else to remove XP and load up their old system.
M$ created this market with their insistance that everyone get on upgrade train. Wal-Mart is very good at identifying markets.
I think more of these boxes will be sold at Sam's than Wal-Mart. And most will end up running Windows. But any advertising for Linux is good.
If the computers all come with Winmodems, and the Winmodems can be made to work with a recompiled kernel, and if RedHat wanted to get Linux on all of those "OS-less" machines, why don't they just build a special version of RedHat with that modem driver inside the kernel specifically for WalMart computers? Then there would be no problem at all for new Linux users.
They need to offer a sweet deal on a cd set to sell along with it. Allow Walmart to hit a price point, like under USD $20.
I'd rather live in a world dominated by Bill Gates than one dominated by Sam Walton.
With or without an OS, everything they sell is without a doubt SHIT.
Big deal...a pc without windows...
It's STILL Wal-Mart SHIT!
I've always had a problem with Wal-Mart, and the problem is when things like this get too big, they start to redefine how things progress and then competition either has to play by those rules or perish. WM ships more jobs overseas for cheap production and more people are out of work since for every 2 jobs they create, 3 are lost decimating the local economies that they advertise they're helping. The comments on the wages and what they consider full-time is atrocious. If competing companies don't follow that lead, they'll be out, leaving people with less choice and, by default, reaffirming the leader and all of its tactics. I don't mind saving money, but the question truly comes down to 'cheaper, but at what cost?' Before we completely lose the choice of *how* we buy, we should at least know the facts behind the "Always Low Prices".
How Wal-Mart is Remaking our World
CB
If anyone has any information on the higher end models, post it here! I'd be interested to know what sort of motherboard, hard drive, etc. is in the 2.0 GHZ P4 model, for example.
Lycoris had some HP desktops and have apparently sold out of the things.
h ttp://www.indybox.com/products/a ta.com/x86.html/ t tp://www.gtweb.net/custom.htmlo mputersystems.com/i n/system.cgi?pid=9/ www.sunsetsystems.com/
A company called OEone makes a distro based on Red Hat but using Mozilla for the desktop. They are selling "internet computer" boxes with their product installed. Here is Robin Miller's review of the appliance/OS. I saw a more negative review of the OEone Homebase distro all by itself, but I can't cite it.
There is definitely some demand for preinstalled machines, but perhaps the distros reckon they are better off just supplying OEM versions to small vendors.
From my bookmarks for preinstalled desktops:
http://www.linux-works.com/html/desktops.html
http://www.hardd
http://www.dsgzone.com/linux_lab
http://www.swt.com/
http://www.buypogo.com/
h
http://www.linuxc
http://www.micronux.com/cgi-b
http://www.atipa.com/
http:/
The review is good and it shows that Linux supports most of the hardware that comes in the Wal-mart offerings but you think he could use current versions of the OS. Man Redhat 7.1 is over a year old and Suse 7.2 is probably almost as old.
If I were buying a new machine I am not going to put a version of Linux on it that is a year old. I would put MDK 8.2 or RedHat 7.2.93.
His review would have been useless if the motherboard was based on the SIS735 chipset which is now fully supported by the Redhat beta.
Hello! Let's compare XP or 2000!
Ask them to offer the option of removing that POS losemodem for an additional $5 price cut. I can see businesses interested in these machines, and businesses normally don't need modems at all. Ditto for people with broadband.
It seems Wal-mart indended to sell these PC to ...intended for Linux!
Windows users at a cheaper price. When the
customrs go home, they can install their Windows
on the PC and that is the end of the story. Because
the Microsoft will not be happy with this, Wal-mart
is saying that the PC are
Wheter the modem works with Linux (which is not
pre-installed) is of little relevance.
and seen towns have to hire ful-time legal staffs whose job is solely to keep Wal-Mart out.
That is obviously the town government. If the people of the town REALLY didn't want the Wal-Mart, it would sit unvisited in the parking lot and close a few months after opening.
No wonder the "main street" businesses die in towns like that. They are overtaxed by a government that has no problem at all with wasting money on hiring legal staffs to stifle free enterprise with harassment lawsuits.
Good going by Wal-mart in Gray's Harbor. They circumvented this sort of unconstitutional "vote". More power to them.
There are several web sites, such as walmartwatch.com, which are part of Big Labor's efforts to force Wal-Mart workers into their membership. It should be pointed out that these web sites and efforts are supported by stolen money ($$$ paid by unwilling union members into political causes under threat).
Microsoft today announced plans to acquire Walmart and Microtel. A spokesman for the company also expressed satisfaction with their working relationship with Lucent Microelectronics.
Nothing like Wal-Mart doing whatever they can to put small computer shops, who offer bare computers without Windows, out of business.
WM ships more jobs overseas for cheap production
The jobs are not "shipped overseas". They are already there. Are you one of those racists who believes that a Mexican who can do the job better should be discriminated against?
The comments on the wages and what they consider full-time is atrocious.
Atrocious? Not according to the workers. It is a fair wage equal to the value of the work. If it wasn't the workers would not choose to work there.
Before we completely lose the choice of *how* we buy, we should at least know the facts behind the "Always Low Prices".
We do know the facts, which is why we support it.
Lemme guess -- SiS video, right? In which section of XF86Config do you put this?
How about standing outside the stores giving away linux burns so that it doesn't end up costing more than windows would?
;)
Until they arrest you, but thats part of the fun
I use Win 200 pro,,, I like it- in my opinion it is the best WIN OS out there,, with the possible exceptiion of XP pro--lets face it WIN has its advantages, it is the most user-friendly system out there and i have never experienced any huge problems with any version of win-its apples and oranges
It'd cost them, what, $0.25???
I've always had a problem with Wal-Mart, and the problem is when things likethis get too big, they start to redefine how things progress and then competition either has to play by those rules or perish. WM ships more jobs overseas for cheap production and more people are out of work since for every 2 jobs they create, 3 are lost decimating the local economies that they advertise they're helping. The comments on the wages and what they consider full-time is atrocious. If competing companies don't follow that lead, they'll be out, leaving people with less choice and, by default, reaffirming the leader and all of its tactics. I don't mind saving money, but the question truly comes down to 'cheaper, but at what cost?' Before we completely lose the choice of *how* we buy, we should at least know the facts behind the "Always Low Prices".
How Wal-Mart is Remaking our World
CB
I'm the author of the piece at NewsForge.
Let's get this straight: the modem does not work.
The people who say they have a working Lucent modem do not have this Lucent modem. This Lucent modem (type 048c) is not supported by any driver I can find. One of the people who insisted that the modem works had a type 0440, which is supported by the Lucent driver.
If someone has a patch that makes the 048c modem work, I'll be glad to try it. But the ltmodem driver does not have it, according to the documentation.
Of the 10 richest people in the world, five are Waltons--the ruling family of the Wal-Mart empire.
S.(Sam) Robson Walton is ranked by London's "Rich List 2001"
as the wealthiest human on the planet, having sacked up more than $65 billion (£45.3 billion) in personal wealth and topping Bill Gates as No. 1.
Alternet.org article here
Yes, you can get a driver at that location.
But, according to the documentation, that driver DOES NOT support the specific chipset used in this particular Lucent modem.
The Lucent driver does not support ALL Lucent modems.
Does it run FreeBSD?
You didn't say anything bad about SRWalton.
My father went from owning and running his own pharmacy to being a slave at Wal-mart
That sounds almost libelious. Of course, we all know it is nothing like the truth. Wal-mart does not own your father. No one ever forced him to enter Wal-mart ever. It is your father's own choice to work at Wal-mart. That choice is not slavery.
Do you live in one of those walled towns where peasants with pitchforks keep out outsiders and their highfalutin ideas? I've lived in a small town, but obviously not the closed little village near Frankenstein Castle that you live in.
Wal-mart comes in, all of that money flows out of the local economy into the pockets of rich people living in rich places.
You are forgetting the money that flows through the community in charitable donations, and the honest wages paid. And there is no problem if investors get a return on what they invested in.
If the people in your community really did not like Wal-mart, they would not go there.
A lot of folks seem to be mentioning the problems with the lucent winmodems not working with Linux. I worked tech support for an ISP(one of the 5 largest)and we couldn't get those damn Lucent modems to work with Windows, let alone anything else.
Consider this: the kind of people buying these naked PCs are a little more advanced users anyway, so I think most of them will be using broadband(with the built in ethernet). Those people will just be happy that the modem is not built in, so they can throw it away and free up a slot on the mobo. That's what I would do.
with a clue like Hightower, who is as anti-fascist as they come, gets called a fascist.
Hightower has no clue at all on any subject. He does argue for government taking away our right to make our own decisions, especially when it comes to economics. He's racist too. Fits in the definition of fascism. I used to listen to him. Few did. His lies and bigotry got tiresome.
Truth is - Walmart would be right at home with the Nazis. They pulled a t-shirt from the shelves on the grounds that it was offensive.
Huh? A company is Nazi like for deciding what they will sell? Far from it: they are exercising their own rights, nothing more or nothing less. You have no idea what you are talking about. Fact is Wal-Mart's standards would mean that they would not sell Nazi shirts either!
P.S. Thanks for stooping to Limbaugh's level.
I don't believe machines sold to the unwashed masses should be pre-loaded with Linux yet. I say this because I remember what happened the first time the Unwashed Masses were exposed to Linux. The 1997-1998 Linux hype (circa RH5.0) has hurt Linux more than you'd believe from what I've observed.
I've seen screwdriver shops load Red Hat 5.x and later on 6.0 (the one that came with GNOME 1.0), as did corporate/gov entities at the time, only to see them recoil in horror and run back to Win9x/NT.
The "Microsoft killer"/"it can do everything you want" hype of the time came too early. There were no integrated environments (RH5.0 came out before KDE 1.0, remember) and even when KDE/GNOME 1 appeared, they were too immature/feature incomplete to be truly useful. GNOME 1.0 even had some serious stability problems IIRC. They were just a sign of greater things to come.
Now, KDE is halfway done dealing with the two last major shortcomings of End-User *nix: printing and font management. (Can't talk about GNOME, since I do not use it.) Once the current transitory period will be over at the XFree86 layer (the move from Xft-1 to Xft-2 and the propagation of the FontConfig library) and that Qt/KDE will have taken advantage of it (ditto GTK2+GNOME2.x), *then* it will be the time to do a push in the non-geek market. But not before.
Right now, geeks can deal with whatever functional shortcomings (or "complications", if you want) that currently exist in Linux/FreeBSD/etc. I know about Xft, my XF86Config-4 file, CUPS and whatnot, but Joe Schmoe User doesn't. He only wants his machine to work. He wants for his printouts to look ok, for the fonts on said printout to more or less match in size & proportions what is on the screen. He does not want to type in a document in OpenOffice/KOffice/whatever (is WordPerfect still selling/working on a Linux version of its OA suite?), get it nice looking on the screen, only to discover that the layout is totally screwed up on the printout.
With a lot of work (too much work?), I am myself getting there, because I'm somewhat of a geek. But I doubt your average non-geek end-user could get good-looking fonts & printouts working on his box. And that's why I strongly believe it would not be a good thing to have Linux pre-loaded on these WalMart machines just yet. We do not want to give a bad initial impression to all those potential users out there.
When Xft-2 and FontConfig come out with XFree 4.3 (I hope), that Qt & GTK are modifed to use this new universal font management functionality, and that KDE & GNOME are consequently modified, *then* I believe would be a good time to start negotiating pre-loading agreements with WalMart and other mass merchandizers (sp?). Mostly because the Unwashed Masses would be less likely to get a bitter after-taste (ok, nasty surprises) than they are right now.
The point is that you cannot approach all those typical non tech-oriented Wal-Mart buyers with the current generation of OSS (KDE/GNOME, XFree, CUPS, etc.) because the chances are too great that the resulting "out-of-the-box" experience will be very negative for them. Once we can virtually guarantee that they won't be badly surprized, once we can provide them with all the functionality they expect to find in a modern-day OS, then we can approach them. Not before.
I think it is just a question of *months*, not years until the OSS universe is ready. We just have to avoid going in too early. Just wait a bit, that's all.
Another example of power-mad government stomping on our rights. "Sorry, we can't offer grand opening price specials. The government has decided it has the right to determine our prices."
The fact that government controls corporations sort of makes your "Defacto" argument false.
Direct from an MS Rep on the license restrictions imposed by MS.
s /licens ing/OEM_EULA.doc
-----------
It is not permitted that customer uninstall the OEM operating system and
install a lesser or previous version of any Microsoft Operating System
unless the pc is licensed for Windows XP Professional or the customer
has purchased, in addition to the OEM O/S, the upgrade advantage
license. It is highly recommended that all future laptops that are
purchased and "reconfigured", as explained, are licensed for Windows XP.
Please inform your customer of this.
http://www.microsoft.com/business/download
Time to run. How twisted does this make the marketshare of XP look to all of you? MS is essentially falsifying that machines are out there running XP when they really are not.
Too often it is the American way: try to keep a competing business from opening by filing a frivolous lawsuit and hoping to win by having attorneys tell lies in the court room. Lying lawyers say predatory pricing too... so what?
"Wal-Mart frequently is put up with resistance from neighborhoods, environmental groups, and just about anyone who doesn't want to see another crappy little box put up."
The situation is, these groups sound a lot bigger than they really are. They represent only a tiny minority, while the majority opinion is shown by the flood of people as soon as the Wal-Mart opens, and the ill-conceived attempt by ignorant tiny special interest groups to get the government to stomp on people is overcome. Nothing evil about Wal-Mart.
As for IE being sold below cost, remember that Netscape gave theirs away for free before Microsoft.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of th*WHUP* Ow.
WalMart can go even further or on a variation of this progressive "No OS" option by having the PC's installed with
"SAM'S CHOICE WAL-INUX"
sans the nasty softmodem.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Sounds like this is a golden opportunity. Someone (Mandrake, RedHat, YOU) should sell a CD for $5 or $10 to WalMart that they can mark up and sell with the computers.
What would it have on it?
How about a simple, installs-itself-on-boot OS running the Linux kernel with support for the modem and everything in these machines built in.
Suddenly you can buy a cheap box, a cheap OS, and everything you need from WalMart. Linux then would get great exposure and look gooooood since it would be so easy for anyone to set up and get going with.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I'd be interested in getting an inexpensive, headless server to install Apple's Darwin on as well as Darwin Streaming Server). Has anyone tried this with these Walmart windows-less systems? Success? Failure? I don't care about the modem, only ethernet. Note, I'm speaking as a person who has never installed any form of Unix on anything, other than indirectly in the form of Mac OS X.
--- What?
"Proper" modems are expensive, winmodems are cheap. Many winmodems do work with Linux- drivers have been written for them. There's no reason not to use one of these. However, it must be one of these...
The term sweatshop has real meaning. It does not apply to any old place outside of US borders where the value of the work is less than you think it should be and the people CHOOSE to work there (are not kept in like a real sweatshop).
Boy, some of you /.ers are pretty heartless.
Have YOU ever started a business or have you just been a cog in someone elses' machine all your life?
I guess what i'm getting at is...
WAL-MART IS THE MICROSOFT OF RETAIL.
The "Good Ol' Boy" network crushes the little man time and time again.
No, i am not a "hippy", nor a "bleeding heart liberal", so save your shitty generalizations.
Competition is HEALTHY for our economy.
(not shareholders, but they're rich enough already)
I wish all the people that result to phony lawsuits and outrageous laws to "keep Wal-Mart out" would realize that competition is healthy.
Linux users who are not going to use Windows face a Windows tax when buying a computer from a distribtor like Gateway, granted. However, what incentive would a new user have NOT to pay the Windows "tax"? You may say that the user wishes to save however many dollars extra is costs to have Windows preinstalled, but realize that that money's going to go straight to buying RedHat (or whatever).
Yes,yes, I know these are downloadable for free, but what *newbie* is going to download the image files and burn them to a CD? Unless the newbie wants to try out Linux, I'd wager that the costs for either option are roughly the same. (RedHat 7.2 costing $59.95 - I don't know what the tax is on a Windows OEM version, but I'd bet it's comparable.)
I guess I just don't see how this cheaper model (stripped of the "Windows tax") really saves newbies much money, if any at all...
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
SilentJames you'd better stay silent. I used to think this too. Well, no I think that XP is crap. For me the best Windows versions are (in order) Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows 95/OSR2.
However as for "user-friendly"...I have learned to appreciate WindowMaker on Linux and find it much more friendly to me than any start button.
Recently I did an even more strange thing: I bought my first non-x86 based machine. Yes, I bought an iBook and put OS X on it. That machine is user-friendly...more than any Windows incarnation I ever saw. I barely turn my x86 machine on (which has much more power than this iBook)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
emachines is another inexpensive brand; I have heard various reviews; Any experience trying to buy a OS less emachine or loading Linux on it?
SusE-the-bitches sound support has been notorious --- forever ... the NGs are filled with SusE-Lusr screams and there really appears no uniform solution. URscrewed by the kraut.
Yeah, pad're but those '3rd party drivers' in WinME actually WORK, as opposed to the crapdrivers in SusE that don'r run the vid, sound or printers properly. Read the NGs ... ask around anybody but the webtoe dweezles ... Linux had yet to produce "goldcode" .
http://www.antitrust.org/cases/walmart/walmart.ht
http://www.massmic.com/walmart.html [there is an informative Boston Globe Article at the bottom of the page];
Rather than keeping Wal-Mart out, small towns should welcome it in. It provides a valuable service. And if it ever got too big for its britches, someone else would come in and undercut it.
Keyword that should have been included in this article is WINMODEM. Drivers have not been distributed with the latest distros of linux, but there is a .org of developers that have Linmodem drivers under construction. Presently beta versions though. Good article though. Walmart should have sold the HW with full HW modems but that would have tacked on another $50.
Jaxs
You're misguided. Let me see if I can explain.
Microsoft has forever required OEM's to load an OS on all of their machines. So Dell for example, couldn't sell an OS-free machine, but they could sell a Linux one. (Dual-boot machines were also prohibited, if one of the options was Windows). This is clearly anticompetitive behavior, but since the new agreement is a bend-over for Microsoft, the new agreement allows Microsoft to continue to make these deals.
Here though, you have to realize that Wal-Mart is NOT an OEM. Wal-Mart does not deal directly with Microsoft at all. Most probably this clone brand that they are buying doesn't sell any machines with OEM versions of Windows; probably they specialize in selling OS-free machines. Neither Microsoft nor the DOJ have anything close to the legal power to require a company to load an OS on every machine. Further, it wouldn't be even remotely legal for Microsoft to demand that the OEM's who do business with them not sell to Wal-Mart. So no matter what Microsoft or the DOJ agree on, Wal-Mart will continue to sell OS-free machines, of course as long as they remain profitable enough to justify their shelf space.
Okay, first off, corporations are imperfect by definition, so yes, Wal-Mart has done some bad things. I know that personally. But your examples are inane.
Let's say you own a small bookstore. As a retailer, what you do is buy things on one hand and sell them on the other. You put books on your shelves and you hope people buy them.
Do you have an obligation to stock any particular book? If you're a gaming bookstore, are you going to have teachers banging on your door, demanding that you stock more books about science and math? If you do run a science-oriented bookstore, are you going to have Christians banging on your door, demanding that you stock Christian Bibles?
Maybe you will, but you'll send them on their way, or call the police if they get too annoying. And you'll be in the right.
Any retailer has to make decisions about what they will and will not stock. More importantly, any retailer has the unalienable RIGHT to decide what to stock. The size of the retailer has nothing to do with it, because abuse of monopoly power is about things you do to your *competition*. If Wal-Mart would only stock albums from publishers who would not sell to K-Mart (aka Microsoft in reverse), that would be an abuse of a monopoly.
Wal-Mart controls what they put on their shelves. Not you, and not the government. And certainly not the bands or the publishers. Misunderstanding this makes you look like someone who doesn't understand the system. Wal-Mart isn't coercing bands; that's ridiculous. That's like saying you're coercing Hershey's to stop using almonds whenever you buy a candy bar that doesn't have almonds.
Whenever you use an argument like this, think about what you're suggesting. For example, are we suggesting that the government should prevent Microsoft from forcing OEM's to load Windows only? I think so. Do you want to suggest that the government should allow the music publishers to control what Wal-Mart is required to stock on the shelves it owns? I think not.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Remember, Microsoft with IBM co-invented the PC. The Ford comparison is apt. Harassing Microsoft for putting its OS into PC's is like harassing GM for putting Delco radios in its cars.
You have it right. The only businesses that suffer were the ones that were badly run.
Yes, small towns (governments) should welcome Wal-Mart in. There are so often empty or blighted areas that would be great for location of the Wal-Mart inside the city, but the taxes are overhigh, causing Wal-Mart to look on the fringes.
Yes, anyone who is in a union is being exploited by THE UNION itself, and keeping them from rising up to a more rewarding life.
Your statement, given in sarcasm, is very true. Actually, they are being exploited. They are being forced to give hundreds of dollars to a corrupt political organization in which membership has nothing at all to do with ability to do the job. This money is then used to fight against the worker's interests, including opposing efforts for the workers to get their money back.
In addition, the union rewards laziness and greed. A perversion of the work ethic, really: you get rewarded the most if you sit on your ass in the picket line and insult the real workers who dare to cross the line and do something productive.
Rewarding life? Not when the union forces Wal-Mart to fire many workers to make up for pay raises (which are siphoned off anyway to enrich union fat cats and politicians).
I've always stood behind Wal-Mart because it is a socially responsible company. Linux at Wal-Mart? That is cool too. Watch for stuffed Tuxes in the toy department!
Why don't all the Linux loving people here create a distro designed for this system and offer it to Walmart? You could even offer to stick Walmart Logos all over it (as long as Tux is just as prominent). I think Walmart would be delighted that they can sell a PC with a Walmart OS.
Assuming that a user doesn't have another working computer, how are they supposed to get the winmodem working without having a working modem to connect to the internet to get the drivers for the modem? They could at least supply a driver disk and a sheet of installation instructinos (IIRC the LT Winmodem instalation process was just untar & run shell script)
You should have recieved a 10 Insightful for your comment above about Wal-Mart shoppers not wanting to deal with Linux or read the instructions.
Someone below makes the argument that the Linux supporters will make these machines a success because they'll go to Wal-Mart in droves.
BULLSHIT!
Linux-heads know so much about computers that unless Wal-Mart really, really, REALLY slipped up and goofed the price so bad that they were giving them away for free, then maybe, just maybe Linuxers would buy a Wal-Mart computer.
What is a far, FAR more likely scenario is that Mr. & Mrs. Middle America will buy a cheap Wal-Mart computer and become EXTREMELY PISSED at Linux because they won't be able to make it work. Keep in mind that these are the kinds of people who will ask you for help attaching a file to their e-mail. For every one Linux geek getting a "steal" price on a Wal-Mart box, there'll be 30 others who will hate Linux forever because of such a miserable experience.
Oh yeah, and who are these people going to call when they can't get their computer to work?
This reply is kinda late, but maybe you get the email when somebody replies to one of your posts. I installed RH6.2 on an emachines Celeron with 32mB of RAM (sorry, don't know the model) something over a year ago. No problems except sound--the included sound card was not recognized, and it turned out it was going to be a largish hassle to get it to function (if it functioned at all--I remember thinking I might be pissing away a lot of time for no results), so I lived without sound till I gave the machine away. Sorry I don't remember the details, but it's the kind of thing you would want to research before you invested money, because a cheap box is only cheap if you don't have to start buying shit to make it work ;)