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Warcraft III: The Single Player Experience

Posted by michael on from the attack-of-the-undead-lawyers dept.

Disoriented writes "Cool interview about the Warcraft 3 single-player campaigns. Has me drooling for a June release." Hopefully Blizzard will drop their attack against Bnetd before the release.

206 comments

  1. Ive always liked single player... by PepsiProgrammer · · Score: 2

    Blizzard has always been known for its multiplayer offerings, but ive always thought its games were better single player games than most as well

    --
    "The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
  2. Balance by Warped-Reality · · Score: 0, Troll

    I think that this will require a much higher amount of gameplay balance than even Starcraft did... especially with all the RPG elements.

    I hope they can pull this off and make it good.

    --
    This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
    1. Re:Balance by Mudslayre · · Score: 2, Informative

      As was the case with starcraft, this should be a good game right out of the box first time. After that comes the expansion (aka the tweaking) were the characters are adjusted based on the playing styles of gamers and unintended exploits. That's if Blizzard lives up to it's reputation, of course :D

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      Warning: you suc :P
    2. Re:Balance by El_Nofx · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be so sure, A few guys where I work did their undergrad work with a guy that ended up getting a job at Blizzard when he graduated, it just so happens that he was kind enough to bless them with a beta of the game. It was REALLY buggy, I guess the inside word is that it has been a nightmare making it and they have been debugging it for almost a year and they still have a long ways to go. I'll be sticking to WCII myself.

      --
      It's not the OS it's the user that sucks. If it's user friendly, you get stupider people. - clinko
    3. Re:Balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and how is this a troll?!?

  3. Priest character? by svferris · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder if I can choose to control a priest in the single player game?

    I could go around clicking on people until they say "Why do you keep touching me?"

    *Ducks the barrage of Troll moderations*

    1. Re:Priest character? by 56ker · · Score: 2

      The words sick & joke spring to mind.

      --


      Video Game cheats, hints a
  4. Yeah, but... by Lazyhound · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...who wants to tickle the orc single player?

  5. Still Alive by prof187 · · Score: 1

    I'm glad that Blizzard is still alive and kicking through all the problems that the tech field seems to be having. I guess that as long as they can keep putting out new games that people will play, they have nothing to worry about.

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    My other sig is an import.
  6. If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We can always drop our own beliefs and buy the game anyway!

    Hey, it happens all the time...

    1. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Or maybe you can realize you're all just being a whiny bunch of brats because momma slapped your hand. Because you want to be a communist and give away everything you make doesn't mean blizzard has to do it too.

      I swear, what a bunch of firing-squad candidates.

    2. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Never asked Blizzard to do it. That's the key: Blizzard thinks they own the stuff other people write. That they should be allowed to restrict what the Bnetd authors do with their own software is just sick. I probably shouldn't be responding to a troll like this, but then again I also had to speak to a lawyer last week too. You're all pretty much the same.

    3. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Aash · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the program is being used to steal Blizzard's product. Sure, the bnetd people supposedly didn't write the program with that in mind (yeah, right...). But that's the only real application of their program.

      I know, people will say "well, you could use a baseball bat to smash up people's windows, but we don't make those illegal!" True, but if someone made a baseball bat which could only smash Walmart's windows, you could bet it would be illegal.

      Bnetd is a baseball bat made to smash Blizzard's windows.

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      --
      These aren't the droids you're looking for.
    4. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I bet you believe the VCR was made to steal television programs and movies. Just because something can be used in an illegal manner doesn't mean it should be illegal. As long as there are legitimate uses (and there are), it shouldn't be illegal. If you buy your game license, you should be able to connect in any way you wish.

    5. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Dreamweaver · · Score: 2

      Legitimate uses like what?

      I don't mean to be rude or ornery about it, but I honestly can't think of any. If battle.net were horribly unstable, I'd understand. If the advertisements on it were horribly intrusive, I'd understand. If it were vastly lacking in functionality or options, I'd understand. But it's none of the above. The chat interface is good enough for what it's for, creating and joining games is intuitive and straightforward, and except right around the release of a given game there aren't even many load problems with the servers.

      The only legitimate use I can think of for bnetd is if Blizzard someday stops supporting their older games on battle.net. But that hasn't happened yet. You can still get on and play the battle.net edition of Warcraft I if the mood struck you.

      The only reasons I can see that people would be using bnetd instead of battle.net are that they want to avoid having to have a legal registration for their games, or battle.net's servers are, at some point, temporarily down.
      In the case of the first reason, it's quite obvious why Blizzard wouldn't want people doing it. And as for the second, the obvious prevalence of the first would, to me, if I were part of their legal staff, Far outweigh any wish to help out their users by letting them have alternative servers.

      Maybe Blizzard really wants to help their users and feels bad, as a company, for coming down on bentd. But they Do have to protect their product, and there really are no obvious legal uses for the system.

      This isn't like the RIAA coming down on the existence of mp3's and computer cd players, or the MPAA cracking down on people recording Anything on their expensive tivo. Let's take it in a little perspective instead of just going with the ol' knee-jerk "Look! That company isn't letting the open-source community do whatever it feels like! EVIL!"

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      "If a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live" -- MLK, Jr.
    6. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      The shoes on a bank robber's feet are being used to commit crimes too. Kitchen knives, cars... even baseball bats.

      Now, if you had an ounce of sense, you'd see just how retarded your post was. Maybe, just maybe, it would make a little sense, if Bnetd could only be used with the pirated versions of games. This isn't the case at all.

      And unlike a tool of vandalism, Bnetd *adds value* to Blizzard games. It makes them better, more playable. Would there be a law against baseball bats that magically clean windows and repaint walls when smashed against them?

      Bnetd is the friend that Blizzard had, but never appreciated, and now actively hates. The funny thing is, Bnetd *still* adds value to Blizzard games. It can't help but do that.

      Bnetd is the best thing to ever happen to Blizzard that they never appreciated. I hope it somehow comes back and bites them in the ass.

    7. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about using it on a network that's not connected to the internet? They do have those, you know.

    8. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Snaller · · Score: 1

      >How about using it on a network that's not
      >connected to the internet? They do have those,
      >you know.

      That's called a LAN isn't it? You have always been able to create LAN games...

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    9. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Aash · · Score: 1
      Yes, bnetd can be used for legitimate purposes. But I would bet that a very small percentage of its users are using it legitimatly. Everyone else is using it to play the "warez" version of the Warcraft III beta. Now, this isn't such a big problem. Blizzard doesn't really lose anything because of that (though that's arguable).

      However, Warcraft III will be hitting store shelves soon. And now, through the help of bnetd, the pirates will not only be able to play the single player missions, but multiplayer too.

      So yes, a few people are going to use bnetd for the right reasons. But the rest are going to use it to steal Blizzard's product.

      If you can explain to me how this is the best thing to ever happen to Blizzard, I'd really like to hear it.

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      --
      These aren't the droids you're looking for.
    10. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      You would bet? Not that it's easy to get statistics on such things, but your "bets" don't count for anything. Nor do mine. And as prejudiced as you seem to be towards this sort of thing, is it any suprise that you'd think it is only ever used for illegitimate purposes?

      You're so fucking clueless, I don't know where to begin. Bnetd isn't even contributory... warez dudes can still play single player without this software. They can still run ipxtunnel. We might also ban computers, by your logic, after all, the BSA suspects that as many as 95% of computers worldwide don't have their licenses in order!

      News flash for dumbass! By the time someone uses bnetd, they've already committed piracy. Even Vivendi isn't using that attack, because they not only know it isn't true, but because they know it such a laughable position they couldn't take it to court. Now they've got some half-assed argument that we're violating their copyrights by participating in an unauthorized public performance (which might make some sense, if they were playwrights, and Bnetd were a broadway show not paying royalties). Haha, dancing orcs.

      The best thing to happen to blizzard? Well, there are people who love their products so much, that they were producing complimentary products. In software, this is a GOOD thing. When people write complimentary products, there is that much more reason to buy your product, because there is more that can be done with it. When people design extra levels, or addons... they still have to buy your product first, and yet there is more incentive to buy it too. Quite possibly, they might not have bought it, if such an addon hadn't existed, but there is no reason to ever think that they'll refuse to buy it because of the existence of the addon. The same holds true for bnetd. No longer do you have to worry about battle.net being overcrowded with cheating assholes, if it's that much of a problem, you have alternatives short of not playing/buying the game. Also, bnetd is open source. Should these people come up with a really cool design/feature... Blizzard would be welcome to use it on the official server. Not to mention that it is rare for a studio to have so many enthusiastic fans. If nothing else, bnetd should be evidence of that. Lord knows there are any number of studios out there, that would kill for such. Some might even have the sense to not kick such fans in the teeth.

    11. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      No, you've been able to play ipx games.

      Not "lan games".

      IPX.

      So, for some people that only have TCP/IP set up, or can't get IPX to work, this is a legitimate option. At least until fuckwads like you do your best to see it illegal.

    12. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Sabriel · · Score: 2
      The only legitimate use I can think of for bnetd is if Blizzard someday stops supporting their older games on battle.net. But that hasn't happened yet.
      Of course, if the bnetd developers waited until then, they wouldn't be able to reverse engineer the packets - because with the servers gone there wouldn't *be* any packets to examine...

      The worst happens to people who wait for it.

    13. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Simon+Garlick · · Score: 1

      Starcraft has had TCP/IP LAN support for some time. Try to keep up.

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      PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
    14. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And bnetd is limited to just Starcraft? There are older programs that don't have that.

    15. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Aash · · Score: 1

      Fine. What you're saying is all well and good. In an ideal world, bnetd is a great program. I can agree with you on that. In an ideal world, there would be no crime.

      But we're not living in an ideal world. In this stinky, rotten world we're living in, people are going to use bnetd for piracy. A lot of people. How can you deny that? Yes, maybe without bnetd some computer savvy people will still be able to play Warcraft III online. But with it, every cheapo who doesn't feel like paying for stuff can play a fully functional version of Warcraft III.

      It doesn't matter how many people use bnetd for the right reason (and I would still bet that this is a very small percentage of Blizzard's customers). More people are going to use it for piracy.

      And anyway, if bnetd is such an honourable program with noble intentions, why would it possibly want to circumvent Battle.net's CD-key check? Hmmm, what a mystery! Couldn't possibly be for piracy. No, not for that!

      And your comparison of bnetd to extra levels and addons is tenuous, at best. Bnetd doesn't really add anything significant to the game that wasn't there before. It's not like it makes any enhancements to the gameplay itself. As for reducing cheating: if Blizzard can't control the cheating on their servers, what makes you think that people running bnetd servers can?

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      --
      These aren't the droids you're looking for.
    16. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      Bnetd isn't great in an ideal world.

      It is great in a practical world, the one I live in.

      Most people don't use it for piracy. The only thing suggesting that, is your inane ramblings. Show me the statistics. Barring those, show me some kind of evidence, anything.

      The truth of the matter is, the games it is useful for, are long gone in the "0 day warez" world. Those people don't care. Besides, if the piracy is sucha big problem, they'd have so much more sympathy AND ease in fighting the piracy, not honest legitimate software developers.

      Then, there is the entire discrimination angle... Vivendi isn't going after the other software that is used in a like manner. Probably because even a bought and paid for judge would have a hard time outlawing ipxtunnel.

      That you even mention the cd check, is laughable. They aren't circumventing it at all. They didn't write one, they don't have to. If I write windows shareware, I'm not obligated to have my shareware check if the WinXP serial is valid. Neither is bnetd. Circumvention, implies that cd checking was already there (which it wasn't because it's their own software) and they NOPed it out. They elected not to write something, which in reality they couldn't write anyway. Without the cd key database, there is no way to check, and Blizzard refuses to let them check. In effect, Blizzard is guilty of preventing bnetd from checking. Try that on for size.

      Most bnetd servers were semi-private, 5 maybe 10 players. Preventing cheating was easy, invite only those you trust to begin with, and if they make things intolerable, ban the fuckers. Let them run their own.

      But then again, if you weren't just another troll that never bothered to actually know something before attempting to mouth off about it, you'd know all this already, right?

    17. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by Aash · · Score: 1
      Show me statistics that people are using bnetd legitimately. You can't? Okay. Then I'll show you thousands of people playing the Warcraft III beta illegally, thanks to bnetd. Now, as I said before, this isn't such a big deal. Blizzard isn't losing any money from this. And they're probably not losing much from people using bnetd to play Starcraft, or Warcraft II, or Diablo I/II (though I would wager that a few people are using bnetd to play illegal versions of these games, too).

      However, Warcraft III is coming out soon. And people are going to use bnetd to steal it. Sure, you can tell me all about bnetd's legitimate uses. On a somewhat unrelated note, you can also tell me that emulators are for educational use only, and that no one actually plays games with them. I'm not buying that either.

      Justify it all you will, once Warcraft III comes out, bnetd will primarily become a tool for piracy. Why do you refuse to see that?

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      --
      These aren't the droids you're looking for.
    18. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      I don't have to show you the statistics that they are using it legitimately. I would like to, I wish I could, but this just only goes to show...

      Innocent until proven guilty.

      You see, by law, in the Constitution itself, you are indeed innocent until proven guilty. The burden is on you, not me. The only people that ever suggest that it should be different, are usuaally crazy, fascist, or some combination of the two.

      I refuse to see the fact that you suspect it may primarily become a tool for piracy sometime in the future, because a game will become more available to the public rather than less. Yes. I would ask you why you refuse to see how ridiculous is, but by definition, the insane are incapable of seeing through the delusion.

    19. Re:If they don't drop the bnetd thing... by chuckwagon99 · · Score: 1

      StarCraft was released circa 1997, if I recall. The TCP LAN play option was released in a patch right around Jan/February 2002, which by the way, was only weeks after the whole cease-and-desist/lawsuit fiasco began. Seems like kind if a long wait, doesn't it?

  7. Re:plz... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Que es un 'karma nigger'? Como se dice en espanol?

  8. Makes it all better by PlaysWithMatches · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    Hopefully Blizzard will drop their attack against Bnetd before the release.

    Yeah, and that makes up for them launching it in the first place. Sorry, they'd have to do a lot more than simply "drop the attack" before they'll get me to respect them as a company again.

    --

    Mozilla's a nice operating system, but it needs a better browser.
    1. Re:Makes it all better by PepsiProgrammer · · Score: 2

      Yes, i think releasign full protocol specs, or maybe even some source code would be an appropriate gesture.

      --
      "The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
    2. Re:Makes it all better by Warped-Reality · · Score: 1

      Um, isn't Blizzard's parent company the one who is pressing charges, not Blizzard themselves?

      --
      This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
    3. Re:Makes it all better by tankefugl · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Uh.

      Yeah right.

      So Blizzard should release source code to satisfy programmers, who Slashrants(tm) how evil Blizzard is anyway? What good would that do Blizzard?

      1. Paving the way for pirating coming and existing Blizzard titles.
      2. Limit Blizzards posibilites to launch controlled betas.
      3. Satisfy a group of idealistic users who DON'T believe in a commercial model after all, so that they would .. eh .. buy it?


      I really don't believe, nor hope, this will happen.
    4. Re:Makes it all better by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Interesting

      4. Give Blizzard an instant online community and pave way for larger acceptence of their game by the number of servers (which they don't have to run or maintain!) available.

      This is what Valve has done with Half Life. Why is this such a hard concept? Sell the game, but make the server freely available.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    5. Re:Makes it all better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what makes Halflife such an annoyance. Seems like 1 week after new update comes out, people have wallhacks. And up to a month after the new update comes out (which was supposed to make it harder to cheat, or whatever crap they spewed) guys have obvious autoaim cheats. Not sure if central authority would do anything to prevent cheating in the first place, but it sure as hell could prevent people from ruining the game for everyone else.

      One might say "join another server" but when most servers are infested with cheaters, that is not an option. Central authority - and they can blacklist cheaters - its that simple.

    6. Re:Makes it all better by tankefugl · · Score: 1

      Why would they do that?

      It makes it easier for the average customer if they can view the online gameplay as a part of the game, without worrying about servers, connections and other alien terminology. (Yes, it IS alien for the average mortal.)

      Besides, I've had more problem with playing Half-Life online than using Battle.net.

    7. Re:Makes it all better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I concur,

      Over half the people in Tribes pirated the game. It would be a shame to know that half the people you are playing with in Warcraft3 are nothing but thieves to one of the best game developers out there.

      If you don't like their anti-bnet policy then don't buy the game. They will still get way past their million sold mark they do with everyday because their games are more than worth their money.

      I know battle.net has its problems (diablo2 first 2 weeks) but considering thats the only drawback I am willing to give them some slack since they do a million other things right. Such as not charging a monthly multiplayer server fee which they could do since their games rock so much.

    8. Re:Makes it all better by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      Actually, the author's of bnetd prove we don't even need that. They wrote a superior product, without any of Blizzard's code.

      If I were one of the authors, I believe I might be satisfied with

      A) A public apology printed on a full page ad in the New York Times (or publication with similar audience).

      B) Proof that the lawyers who instigated and pursued this, if on the payroll, were summarily fired and will never be re-hired.

      C) Reimbursement of all legal fees.

      D) Small financial donation to pay for bnetd's webspace and costs to maintain a product that enhances Blizzard's own games.

      Then, I might be able to forigve them.

  9. This doesn't seem to ever end by Guitarzan · · Score: 1

    I've never been this torn over a video game before. On one hand, Warcraft III is probably going to be an extremely fun game, but I am having a hard time getting over the whole bnetd issue.

    I think it's going to definitely be a pirate-before-I-buy situation. I hate to say it that way, but we'll see...in 2 years when War3 finally comes out.

    1. Re:This doesn't seem to ever end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is EXACTLY why Blizzard SHOULDN'T drop the bnetd issue. People are pirating Blizzard's software. Then they find a bnetd server, and play on it. Blizzard implemented some form of CDKey to try to prevent this, and yet people get around (ie, circumvent) it by playing on bnetd. Which means they lose money, while you play their game. And since you aren't paying them money, you've found a loophole by which you can "hate" Blizzard, and still play their games. Congratulations. And I'm totally ignoring basic copyright issues.

      You, sir, have just provided Blizzard with ammunition as to why they should continue the lawsuit. And, if you really dislike Blizzard so much, you shouldn't play their games. It's kind of like saying "I hate Republicans - I don't donate money to their compaigns, but I still vote Republican." It's just a moral/ethical loophole.

      And I don't mean this to be personal. But I'd bet that a large number of slashdotters have an identical view as you on this situation, and will (hypocritically) think and do the same thing. The underdog isn't always right, even if he's 100% open source GPL geek-cranked code.

    2. Re:This doesn't seem to ever end by snak0rific · · Score: 1

      heh, that's funny. bnetd is not a way to hate blizzard and still play their games. we used bnetd before blizzard sued, only now we do hate them, why should we suffer for their poor copy protection? anyways we own the damn game and we're gonna play it anyway we see fit. and stop assuming people using it are doing so illegally, i own sc, wc2, wc2:bne, TWO COPIES of both d2 and the expansion (so i can legitimately transfer stuff between chars). it's just annoying that people assume it's only being used by thieves.

      --
      -- "Put on your big girl panties and lift!"
    3. Re:This doesn't seem to ever end by Guitarzan · · Score: 1

      You sir, are on crack.

      Bnetd will neither help not hurt my ability to play the single player version of warcraft 3. The cdkey issue is not the issue. I don't care how much blizzard wants to say it is.

  10. If you like the sound of this by n4zgl · · Score: 0

    The single biggest distinction is that there's so much story, personality, and character. You really need to check out morrowind, this game is released, and is eating up game review sites, suddenly the news on them has slowed to a trickle... *wonders why* www.morrowind.com. I would try a hyperlink, but the last time i did that the i failed with the end tag :P

  11. Warlords Battlecry II by LPetrazickis · · Score: 1, Troll

    I would just like to point out that Warlords Battlecry II is a far better game than Warcraft III can ever hope to become.

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    Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
    1. Re:Warlords Battlecry II by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      Ha! Myth series still rocks - even if Bungie was eaten by the Empire.

      (Myth III is really nice - too bad it hasn't been ported to Linux, like Myth II =)

  12. mirror please.. by SnakeEyes · · Score: 1

    Could somebody post a mirror or post the text of the article?
    I'm at work and unfortunately the censorware has blocked gamespot.

    --
    Come on, Tinkler, Tink!!
    1. Re:mirror please.. by PepsiProgrammer · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Since we got our hands on the Warcraft III multiplayer beta earlier this spring, we've had plenty of time to see how the game's competitive side has been progressing. There's little more than a month left before the game is expected to ship, but until now, Blizzard has released very little information on the single-player campaign. And as anyone who has played Warcraft II or Starcraft can attest, Blizzard is quite capable of creating a top-notch story and compelling characters for its games. We recently had the chance to talk to Blizzard's Bill Roper about Warcraft III's single-player game. Read on for the latest details on the single-player campaign and rest assured that there isn't a single spoiler below. GameSpot: We've had a chance to watch the progress of Warcraft III's multiplayer through the public beta. How far along is the single-player game? screenshot Special heroes, like Arthas, the first human hero, play a central role in the single-player story. Bill Roper: We're in superhigh polish mode. We're playing all the different levels, going through and making sure everything is as tight as possible. Things have really been coming together. We now have three different difficulty levels in the game. [Warcraft III] easily has the most involved, engaging, and challenging missions I've seen in a RTS. Of course, we have to make sure they're as polished as possible. Bug count is great. Multiplayer is playing great. We're just down to making sure everything in the game is cool. GS: What's different or distinctive about the approach that Blizzard has taken with Warcraft III's single-player campaign? BR: The level of characterization. I have people testing the game who are not familiar with the storyline, and they're pulled in by what happens. It really is just like watching a movie. People come in and say, "I can't believe this or that happened," because they're so into the story events. We're not really used to that kind of comment, but it's been utterly fantastic. The single biggest distinction is that there's so much story, personality, and character. We've wanted to focus on not just how fun the gameplay is, but also on making the individual events [in the story] very compelling. GS: Most missions in RTS games revolve around expanding and fighting the opposition. Does this mean that the missions are more event-driven? screenshot Special heroes have powerful abilities, which means they'll be at the center of the action. BR: There are so many different mission types in Warcraft III. [You won't] just go and take down the other guy. There's one mission that is almost like a race to accomplish stuff. Let me try to say this without giving too much away. You are racing against an opponent to do the same thing with different results. There is no element of attacking his base. It fits within the structure of the storyline, it makes sense, and it definitely has strategy. What's really cool about that is that we move away from it being the same gameplay all the time. It's really moved into what we should do with all kinds of games--and particularly strategy games--which is adding elements that are interesting for nongamers. RPGs draw so much attention and interest because they do engage you--there's an emotional context. Warcraft III is really trying to tap into that level. GS: What kinds of RPG elements are in the missions? Are there quests? BR: Sure. Some quests are story-related. Others are there for you just to build your [hero] character and get rewards. We've tried to have all of the fun elements of RPGs without the grind. Strategy games are all about combat, but we get to infuse it with these RPG sensibilities. GS: When Warcraft III was first announced back in 1999, the concept was even more RPG-like. Now that things are almost done, what is your opinion about how this shift has worked out? BR: Initially we focused too much on the RPG and not enough on the strategy game. The camera angle was closer, and you had fewer units. Those are the things that changed the most. The original idea we had looked a lot more like World of Warcraft. We wanted to push the role playing, but we did that too much and lost sight of it being a strategy game. We got too into making it a cool RPG.

      --
      "The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
  13. Re:only slant-eyes by Draykonis · · Score: 1

    Why does it seem like there's an awful lot of ignorant people online today?

    My only question is: Will they actually release it? How long ago did they start working on it? Reworking on it? Altering it? Creating Worlds of Warcraft? The new one is going to have to be REALLY good to make up for the anticipation.

  14. Heres my plan.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they dont drop the lawsuit by the time its released, pirate it. ;)

    1. Re:Heres my plan.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      damn right brother
      but they will just use it for the bnetd case...
      sigh

    2. Re:Heres my plan.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Untrue, it would proove that bnetd is entirely unneeded for pirating WC3.
      not that it matters.. Blizzard(or the mpaa/riaa/{insert evil people here}) could easily cut all of that 'lost revenue' by NOT OVERCHARGING. If they're only loosing money from lost potential sales, they only loose so much from charging so much.

    3. Re:Heres my plan.. by vegetablespork · · Score: 1

      They'll use sales figures for their argument either way. If sales are good, it's because the scum-sucking fascist pigs DMCAd the bnetd project. If sales are bad, it's because bnetd facilitated piracy.

      --

      Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

  15. Bnetd or not, I can't wait!! by RealisticWeb.com · · Score: 0

    I know that alot of people have lost respect for bliz over the whole bnetd thing, but personally I am VERY excited about this release. I think blizzard has done remarkably well with old ideas for game play and has come up with games that I never seem to get tired of. I still play warcraft 2 on a regular basis. Not because I have a crappy computer or anything, I just think it's fun! Not only that but thier CG and cinema scenes have become more and more stunning with each game. I'm practicly foaming at the mouth to see this new one!

    --
    Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
    1. Re:Bnetd or not, I can't wait!! by AgTiger · · Score: 2

      Actually, I'm planning on mailing a letter to Blizzard and Vivendi Universal's staff congratulating them on Blizzard's new release of Warcraft III.

      I'm also planning on saying that I had been really looking forward to continuing as a customer of theirs but that their unreasonable lawsuit against the makers of bnetd made me want to seek out products from competing companies that worked with their users rather than against them.

      I don't care how much "Ooooo shiny!" factor it has, Blizzard and Vivendi Universal have annoyed me enough that I'm not interested in their latest offerings.

    2. Re:Bnetd or not, I can't wait!! by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      I more than just approve of this, I'm almost proud and certainly respectful. I almost wish I had whatever it takes to perform such an action.

      I even almost wish it could have some effect. The sad truth is, you're probably doing it to make yourself feel better, because it isn't going to have any effect whatsoever on them.

  16. One thing to say. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On behalf of bnetd, Free Software, and modern civilization in general, I have but one thing to say to Blizzard and Vivendi Universal, their lawyers, and all their supporters against bnetd:

    Pictorial expression here.

  17. What's that stuff about storyline? by SIGFPE · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who wants a storyline? I want gameplay. I skipped over the stupid cut sequences in WCII and got down to playing the actual game. Who wants tighter integration of cinematic sequences? I thought those sequences were just for screenshots for sales purposes. I don't want to have to watch them. Gameplay is what made WCII great! Not storyline, not cut sequences. Strategy and action!

    --
    -- SIGFPE
    1. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by Moofie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      *raises hand* Me. Good writing in a game improves the feeling of immersion, which is very important to my enjoyment of the game.

      Sure, there are people who skip cut-scenes and don't read the docs, but I'm not one of them. When I pay $50 for a game, I want the whole kit and caboodle...good story, good art, good gameplay, good documentation, good UI...everything.

      Gameplay and UI are what made Total Annihilation great. Storyline and memorable characters are what set Warcraft (and Starcraft) above the pack.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by NeoOokami · · Score: 1

      Almost all of Blizzard's games have had a well woven story line within them. Just because you played War2 doesn't mean that's why the world did. I for one loved the story revolving around War and War2 as well as Starcraft and Diablo. One of the reasons I play RPGs in the first place is for a great story and Blizzard is one of the few companies willing to give me that in other genres as well, which I for one love.

    3. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by SIGFPE · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well they say the big studios like movies to catch the interest of at least two major ethnographic groups: geeks, Lifetime TV watchers, jocks etc. I guess Blizzard were smart enough to catch more than one group with their game too...

      --
      -- SIGFPE
    4. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by BoRoG · · Score: 1

      Dude, the cut scenes were great in the game. Not only were they really nice renderings for their time but you always need plot in video games. At least I enjoy one when I play games. You just want level after level with no big movies to drive the game along? I don't understand.

    5. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by elykyllek · · Score: 1

      Sometimes a storyline makes a great game better, I remember playing many space shooters, and then I came across Decent Freespace.. I was hooked, the story kept me wanting more, the cutscenes made me feel that I was actually part of the story. If a game has good action you'll play it for awhile, then boredom sets in, a good story on the other hand can keep you going back, and a great story can make you an addict.

    6. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by sgtsanity · · Score: 1

      Frankly, Blizzard's movies have improved immensely since WCII. Now they're better than most movies that come out in theaters. And if you played Starcraft, the cutscenes and the story were part of what made it memorable.

    7. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by Snaller · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >Gameplay and UI are what made Total Annihilation great.

      And totally lame computer is what made any kind of skirmish game against the computer a joke. The programmer must have been a 3 year old. Its an offence even to mention it in the same paragraph as Starcraft. The AI in the Starcraft skirmish engine on the other hand was totally brilliant. It didn't just overrun you because it had more money to startwith (as in just about any other game), but it found weaknesses in your defences, tested them and then tried something else instead of boorishly trying the same thing over and over. And it ever boxed itself in (except on badly made user maps) it always found ways to expand, sourround and attack.
      Gawd i hope they make Starcraft 2 - I've always been more partial to a laser than some old sword *G*

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    8. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Interesting
      • When I pay $50 for a game, I want the whole kit and caboodle

      What if you could pay $30 for just the gameplay and none of the cinematics or voice "talent"?

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    9. Re:What's that stuff about storyline? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of games like that, and I don't typically find myself buying them. There are, of course, exceptions, but for the most part I like games where I can imagine I'm in some interesting situation that I can use my wits to get out of. Games without backstory and characters make it harder for me to imagine the game world.

      Don't get me wrong...there are tons of good games without a hint of backstory or plot. I'm just saying that, as a rule, I enjoy myself more when I understand why I'm doing what I'm doing.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  18. multi-OS games by O_Sleep · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even with the whole thing about Blizzard and Bnetd. They are still one of the only Video Game Publishers that distribute their games for both Mac & PC in the same cd pack!

    As companies merge and take-over there will be more and more sections in them with conflicting (or passively disagreeing) ideals and methods. Just because one section does one action doesn't necessarily mean that the whole company is bad.

    1. Re:multi-OS games by Webmonger · · Score: 2

      iD does it. My copy of Quake III Arena, for example

  19. Re:plz... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cagado hombre amordazaría hablar y pene, buena. Me gusta las pechas mama está se dice.

  20. Re:don't u do this real life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Man, a little "touchy" on this subject, aren't we? ;-)

    Some people have no sense of humor.

  21. Warcraft III rules! I know! I played it! by RumGunner · · Score: 1

    Warcraft 3 is awesome. A guy in my office was a beta tester, who "shared his experience" with the rest of us.

    The elf units are probably the most creative. Their "lifeforce" type magics are very inventive. And there's nothing quite like uprooting all of your tree buildings and attacking your enemies' base.

  22. This story shouldn't have been posted by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This isn't important news, and Slashdot would be no worse if this particular article wasn't posted.

    People are talking about sending in letters say, "I will not buy your products". That's nice, that's good even, but we all know Blizzard won't pay a huge amount of attention to a few of these. They would pay much more attention to Slashdot editors forwarding this post to them and saying they would have posted it, except that Blizzard is violating basic standards of conduct in the treatment of bnetd. Bad corporations don't deserve free advertising, and putting in a small note about bnetd does not make this any less of an advertisement.

  23. If Blizzard is so bad, stop advertising for them.. by Tom7 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Come on, if Blizzard is so bad for this lawsuit (and I agree that they are), then maybe slashdot shouldn't be posting free advertising for them.

  24. Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

    I think the slashdot crowd seems very torn over this issue, but it is quite simple.

    If you are against Blizzard for their bnetd actions, DONT PLAY THEIR GAMES!

    Seriously though, of all those who complain about bnetd being attacked, how many of you paid for your game?

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    1. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never used bnetd. I paid for Warcraft II (And the expansion) and Starcraft.

      I won't be purchasing, or playing, any future games from Blizzard.

      But, you do raise a valid point. I'm willing to wager that a large number of people who did use bnetd didn't pay for their games.

      I'm also willing to bet that a lot of people who used battle.net didn't pay, either. Key generators, woo. :p

    2. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by schon · · Score: 1

      of all those who complain about bnetd being attacked, how many of you paid for your game?

      I paid for mine.. several times multiple copies of Diablo, Diablo2, Diablo2 LOD (all of these for myself and as gifts), and single copies of WC2 and StarCraft.

      And they'll never see another cent from me if they don't drop the suit. (I was planning on buying WC3 and WoW - when it came out.)

    3. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I agree with you, and applaud your efforts and sincerity. However, I wasn't addressing or attacking the few users who do pay. To be honest, I have only paid for two thirds of the games I own. But I do pay for the games I like to play. Unreal Tournament, for example a wonderful game well worth my initial investment. Half-life (for counterstrike beta 4.x?.x? I don't remember the version it was a long time ago.) I actualy bought it twice it was so good.

      Thanx for the input,
      DW

    4. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of curiosity, What upset's you about blizzards actions?.

      Don't get me wrong, I am not for the big guys weaseling out the little guys. But they have explicit Eula's that tell you to only play on bnet.

      I personally hate the idea that I can't play across a general internet connection. I really hate the fact that I can't just plug it into gamespy. However, blizzard has a decent way to deter piracy. It sure doesn't prevent it, but it does help deter it. That is if you want to be #1 on the Bnet ladder.

      Dw

    5. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      WarCraft II Battle Chest, $60.
      Diablo, $55.
      Diablo expansion pack, $25
      Starcraft, $45

      I remember paying close to top dollar, no bargain bin copies for me. At the time, I remembered thinking it was worth every cent. Hope no belittles me for reconsidering that sentiment.

      Also, I find it unlikely that not playing their games will have any effect on their future actions. Not that I will play, just the principle of the thing. But I harbor zero illusions that I can somehow punish them.

    6. Re:Blizzard, BnetD and Software the Saga Continues by nostromo_42 · · Score: 1

      well, i have paid for the blizzard games i play, and i expect i will continue to do so as long as they keep consistently making some of the most entertaining games out there. i may think that blizzard isn't handling the bnetd controversy in the best way, but i blame that on their corporate masters, who i'm probably supporting in some way or another regardless of whether i buy war3 or not. so if i'm supporting them by buying cds, or pissing in their urinals, or whatever other pie the conglomerate has it's fingers in, why not get a gaming experience out of it?

  25. But is it really Warcraft?? by snilloc · · Score: 1
    From the article: You are racing against an opponent to do the same thing with different results. There is no element of attacking his base.

    And they're calling it *craft??? WTF?

    1. Re:But is it really Warcraft?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dip, that was one mission.

  26. well... by Lazy+Jones · · Score: 2

    Maybe it isn't free advertising. Commercial sites such as CNET's are very interested in the slashdot crowd ;-)

    --
    "I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
  27. Unbiased by NeoOokami · · Score: 1

    Slashdot is primarily a news site, which should try to be as unbiased as possible in that which it reports to the world, they shouldn't ignore something just because some people might not like it. That's censorship - which the news is supposed to oppose above all else.

    1. Re:Unbiased by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Slashdot is primarily a news site, which should try to be as unbiased as possible in that which it reports to the world, they shouldn't ignore something just because some people might not like it. That's censorship - which the news is supposed to oppose above all else.
      I agree that it is a sticky issue to not spread a bit of news because of its associations. OTOH, this article is just an ad... Gaming News is hardly real news, by even the most forgiving definition of news. The gaming publishing industry also has close to no journalistic integrity, so places that link to them have every reason to discriminate when the original sources choose not to. I'm not saying such not-really-news shouldn't be posted at all... but because of the entirely superfluous nature of the article, there's no journalistic requirement to post it. It's fluff, and it's an outright promotion of Blizzard's product. And again, that would still be fine, except that Blizzard is a bad company.
    2. Re:Unbiased by satanami69 · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is primarily a news site == wrong
      It's simply a DDos tool for people who can't code good.

      --
      I really hate Dan Patrick.
  28. What's the deal with these headers? by PD · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Did the trolls screw them up, or is it a bug in the code? It's a very interesting sort of hack.

    --
    If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
  29. The lost art of single player by papasui · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A trend that I've noticed is that everything is multiplayer now. Great games are the ones that everything is designed and scripted out, random attacks, plots, and sucky players don't make a game great, they offer diversity and may make it interesting but a true game is one that plays like a book, unfolding a plot in front of you. I haven't seen any good multiplayer games do this yet.

  30. Something for those not on the beta team.. by Knoxvill3 · · Score: 1

    You'll be blown away. Just from playing on battle.net, you can already tell this a very in-depth game, gameplay wise and player wise. In some cases, it will not give you a mental break, period. You always have something to be mindful of in multiplayer, and not just your opponents / teammates. This is what happens when you roll of Blizzards popular titles, and the features most admired by fans, into one game.

    So I agree with Disoriented on this, I am also drooling profusely for the full release to play this game in full. Btw, If there are those of you waiting as well, Blizzard recently updated it's projected system req's, and you can find them here (may have to scroll down the page a bit). Enjoy!

    --
    ======
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides
  31. bnetd by jacquio · · Score: 1

    Frankly, I never really understood why everyone cares so much about Blizz leaving bnetd alone. I mean, I understand that bnet is a free service for the most part, and that people who use bnetd still have to buy the game so Blizz isn't losing money. But bnet is one of their trademarks and legal precedence is absolutely replete with people being nailed for marketting products with names and qualities too close to some other make. Consider also that the upcoming World of Warcraft will not be free bnet, so of course Blizz wants to cap non-Blizz bnet services now. Yes yes it would be nice if Blizz made *nix game offerings but hey, if you are smart enough to set up and run a dedicated *nix box, you are smart enough to be able to set up and use dual boot to Win32 for gaming purposes only. I fully confess that I have not read up a lot on the whole bnetd issue, but frankly I am a bit tired of little comments like the one about bnetd in above article featured on this site. Cheers, jacquio

    1. Re:bnetd by jeffehobbs · · Score: 5, Funny


      How many though will say they were wrong to shut down bnetd as they hand them $50?

      Not me; I'll simply be handing them 50$.

      I'm not generally apathetic, but over this particular issue, I couldn't care less. If it turned out that Blizzard executives needed to drink the blood of open source programmers daily to ensure the continued high quality of their excellent titles, I would consider it blood well drank.

      ~jeff

    2. Re:bnetd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you are smart enough to set up and run a dedicated *nix box, you are smart enough to be able to set up and use dual boot to Win32 for gaming purposes only.

      ----------

      Translation: If you are smart enough to run 'nix, you are smart enough to realize that it's wrong to want to do anything but be a consumer.

      Embrace Windows! It really is your friend. And put away those ideas and grandiose visions of universal access and flexibility; they don't do anything but keep us from our one true purpose: GAMING!

      That's what life's all about. Knowing the best way to play games handed down on high from our corporate masters, and embracing them, without asking questions.

      Questioning is now against the law under the DMCA, so it must be wrong.

      I'll end this logic lecture now. Thank you.

    3. Re:bnetd by jacquio · · Score: 1

      I find it interesting that all the [apparent] linux zealots post under "Anonymous Coward" (see my post below, the one where Anonymous Coward accepts the brand "fanatic" and then single-handedly makes it equivalent to spineless, but not before some other Coward script-kiddy wannabe adds a cute remark). Wake up. I love UNIX-based OS but I seriously doubt it will EVER support gaming to the extent that Win does. I'm all about questioning, and using anything for what it is best at (which is why I advocate a dual boot system). Companies should offer games for more OS than Win, I TOTALLY agree, and I think THAT is where the pressure should be, at the level of the company policy. But if a company decides to make a game for Win, that is THEIR decision, and what moral right does anyone have to crack it or develop a bypass? That's called getting what you haven't paid for, otherwise known as theft, and if I invested serious money into software development as opposed to doing it pro bono, that would really piss me off. So, currently and for all foreseeable future, companies are deciding to tailor their games to Win, hence Win is best for gaming, so that if gaming is a hobby and you like the sweet games out there for Win, you adopt Win for gaming until the company in question makes a 'nix offering. I fail to see what the problem is in asserting this. Anecdote: I spend 9 hours per day at 2 dedicated Red Hat terminals.

    4. Re:bnetd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They shouldn't be attacking bnetd. if bnetd was not providing the service free, then it would be ok. But copyright law is there to protect a company/individual from having his product and/or name used to generate income by someone else. Everyone wants to sue for everything. Blizzard has to prove that they are a) losing revenue from BNetd's presence, or that b) BNetd is generating revenue from its service. otherwise the 'copyright infringement' isn't there. at least thats the way I understood it. but I'm not a law student so go figure. :)

    5. Re:bnetd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are so many holes in the above, I have no idea where to start.

      linux zealots post under "Anonymous Coward"

      It's because people with opinions like yours honestly scare us.

      I love UNIX-based OS but I seriously doubt it will EVER support gaming to the extent that Win does

      ..therefore, you use this as a basis for your disagreement with ANY activity in the sector, especially that by individuals with no commercial interest.

      But if a company decides to make a game for Win, that is THEIR decision,

      Of course. As it is my decision to use that game (that I have purchased) in whatever manner I choose.

      and what moral right does anyone have to crack it or develop a bypass?

      My head is spinning. Please start by telling me exactly why it's "immoral" to use a piece of software in a manner not intended by its creator.

      Then, tell me how many different tasks you've used a flathead screwdriver for in your life, that don't include turning slotted screws.

      Obviously, those tasks were not intended by the creators of the screwdriver, therefore it is immoral to do those things. You should have to buy a door-unjammer, a space-between-objects-wedger, and an Aptiva case entry tool as separate products. Right?

      That's called getting what you haven't paid for, otherwise known as theft,

      No. Taking something physical from another entity is theft. Extracting unintended use from a purchased item isn't even close.

      companies are deciding to tailor their games to Win, hence Win is best for gaming, so that if gaming is a hobby and you like the sweet games out there for Win, you adopt Win for gaming until the company in question makes a 'nix offering.

      I can't believe you fail to see the cycle in the above graph.

      if I invested serious money into software development as opposed to doing it pro bono, that would really piss me off.

      Suit yourself. I, however, enjoy hacking things much more than I enjoy buying stuff. If you'd deny me that right because you disagree, I have a white glove to slap you with, sir.

      From an engineer's perspective, the finished puzzle is much less enjoyable than the act of putting the pieces together to form it. The question is not "why", but "how".

      If you can't respect that other people should have a right to do as they please when it hurts nobody, please go away and crawl back into your hand-crafted, megastore catalog-furnished, cozy little consumer hole.

      I fail to see what the problem is in asserting this

      assert(do_as_told(everyone));

      Assertion failed in 1984.c, line 1

    6. Re:bnetd by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      ... and that people who use bnetd still have to buy the game so Blizz isn't losing money ...

      Actually bnetd does not perform the cd-key checks so people using bnetd do not have to buy the game. People using the real bnet do, cd-key generators are generally good enough for the installer but not good enough for getting onto bnet afterwards.

    7. Re:bnetd by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, "bnetd" isn't one of their trademarks. They aren't accusing the bnetd developers of trademark dilution.

      Why is it, that everyone that defends them is a complete moron with very little understanding of the actual situation? And it does no good to point this out, because next week, your vapid little brain will have forgotten all this, and you'll latch onto yet another intellectual property term that you're incapable of understanding.

      Is Bnetd a trademark violation? No, nor does vivendi claim that...
      Is Bnetd a copyright violation? No, they didn't copy Blizzard's code...
      Is Bnetd a patent violation? Again, no, neither the games nor the network protocol are patented.
      Is Bnetd guilty of contributory copyright infringement? No, it isn't used to disable copy protection or trade games ala a p2p net, and all piracy occurs well before using bnetd
      Is Bnetd a trade secret? Not any more, and no bnetd authors have worked for Blizzard, this doesn't apply.
      Is Bnetd a military secret? Well, the pentagon hasn't lodged any complaints, though I sometimes suspect those 2 star generals like to play a quick game of starcraft from time to time.
      Is Bnetd guilty of pissing off a big corp with nasty lowlife lawyers? Yes.
      Is Bnetd safe, even though they've broken no laws? No. $$$= laws, $$$=favorable judgements. They might as well bend over, lube up, and spread their cheeks now.

      Are stupid fucking dimwits who claim bnetd is a piracy tool actually causing problems for the authors of bnetd? Well, yes, if indirectly. Every time a Sen. Hollings wants to pretend he has support for the latest consumer rape law, he can point to a retard like yourself, jacquio, and claim that he has the support of enlightened citizens. Your stupid voice is much louder, than my halfway intelligent protest.

    8. Re:bnetd by slavetrade55 · · Score: 1

      You're a funny guy.

      The fact is that BNETD is designed as an alternative to the real bnet. That's the point. Why would one need such a thing? So that pirates can play cd copies of the game. That's the reason it exists and that's the primary reason it is used. If that wasn't the case, then why not implement cd key checking in BNETD? It would prevent pirates from using the service. Keep in mind that that wouldn't prevent you from running the server and playing on your own little BNET networks running from your ISP's T1. But it would prevent you from playing multiple copies of the same cd, as well as playing blizzard's beta releases. Why wasn't that feature pursued? I have a guess: BECAUSE IT WOULD DEFEAT MOST OF THE PURPOSE OF RUNNING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. So cry all you want about Blizzard's wicked ways, but the fact is their case is genuine. If the one result of the case was a stipulation by the courts that BNETD implement some kind of cd key check (difficult yes, impossible no), you'd still be up in arms complaining about your rights to something I'm sure, even though I can't imagine what rights such a decision would infringe upon. So F' you. F' all the people like you. You make no sense, and whether or not your a thief, you certainly sound like you support them.

      --RMT

    9. Re:bnetd by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2


      No, you fucktwit.

      It's used, so that I don't have to play on battle.net with cheating assholes like yourself.

      They wanted to implement cd checking, but Vivendi is too busy fucking people over like these guys. Failure to implement copy controls in bnetd isn't bnetd's problem. It's Vivendi's problem, and Vivendi isn't even willing to let bnetd fix it... which was actually rather thoughtful of them.

      And Vivendi's own legal arguments tell the fucking lie... they have no case, especially the one you're trumpeting. They are using some legally obtuse theory actually meant for dramatic stage plays.

      No, fuck you, you stupid syphillitic asswad. Fuck your lousy pointless trolling, and your seething hatred of logic and constitutional rights.

      Outlawing bnetd, is like finding a coffee shop that warez dudes hang out at, and shutting it down for that reason. The piracy happens someplace else, has nothing to do with the *legal* coffee shop, and the vast majority of the coffee shop customers are doing nothing wrong. It is a legal tactic employed by ruthless corporations accountable to no one, and performed by lawyers that should be disbarred and tossed in a federal prison cell for a few years.

      This isn't napster, napster actually performed, as its primary function, transferring the files around. This isn't a game cracking tool, which performs as its primary function the copy control breaking. This is primarily used by legal copies of Blizzard games, by people who want a little more control over the experience.

      Honest to god, is the entire world populated by retards like the parent posters? This hurts him too, and he's cheering it on. Humanity didn't evolve from proto-monkeys... it never evolved at all.

    10. Re:bnetd by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      So? If I were to write windows software, I'm not legally required to do the whole WinXP serial checking, to make sure that the copy of windows isn't pirated. For good reason, that isn't the duty of my software, or me.

      If bnetd interacts with a game, it isn't bnetd's duty to check the game for validity. Legally or morally.

      That's right, you hit the nail on the head... keygens are good enough for the installer, in other words, piracy happens long before they go near bnetd. Bnetd has nothing to do with it.

      So, exactly why is it that bnetd should be illegal?

    11. Re:bnetd by snak0rific · · Score: 1

      haha! it's so obvious that you've never *EVER* played on battle.net(TM). why would anyone want an alternative?

      1) begging newbies "YOU GIVE ITAM"
      2) asshole player killers "pK-zoN-MastEr has expressed hostility towards you"
      3) fuckin' idiots "hi, wait, what did you do? how do i accept it? omfg i can't switch skills"
      4) hackers who fuck up the economy

      i'll bet you think those are good things. unfortunately i like private realms. where the good players are found and invited to play on these private realms. good realms. battle.net(TM) will never be mistaken for a good realm where good players play.

      --
      -- "Put on your big girl panties and lift!"
    12. Re:bnetd by snak0rific · · Score: 1

      oh, i'm sorry, bnetd is used *ONLY* to play war3 silly me, i'll go back to playing diablo2 on battle.net(TM)

      --
      -- "Put on your big girl panties and lift!"
    13. Re:bnetd by ahoehn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thank the good Lord for warez, err.... did I say that out loud?

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
  32. Neverwinter Nights by Maul · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just a reminder to those of you who are boycotting Blizzard, but still want your fantasy gaming fix.
    Neverwinter Nights will be coming out this summer, and while it is an RPG (rather than RTS), it should do a good job of filling the void left.

    Though, personally, I was more excited about NWN than WC3 even before the lawsuit.

    --

    "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

    1. Re:Neverwinter Nights by tb3 · · Score: 2

      And Neverwinter Nights has Mac AND Linux versions in the offing.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

  33. bnetd by Fizzlewhiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hopefully Blizzard will drop their attack against Bnetd before the release

    And if they choose not to drop it, I hope the community speaks out by choosing not to support them by buying it. It is really easy to bitch about companies and their policies but how many of us actually do something about it?

    I for one will not be buying it and will send them a letter explaining why I have passed up Warcraft III, and possibly future titles by Blizard.

    How many though will say they were wrong to shut down bnetd as they hand them $50?

    --

    'Same speed C but faster'
  34. Laff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Harr harr... Slashdot is not an unbiased news source by any means. Their baises are, in order:
    1. Linux advocacy, with a corollary to open source
    2. The Underdog, regardless if it results in board inconsistencies in the apparent Slashdot "platform" (and the instant it's no longer the underdog, it's on the chopping block)
    3. Science and gadgetry, regardless of lack of substantiation or extreme buzzword content.
    This story didn't fall directly under any of these biases, explaining why the original comment poster felt it was non-topical to Slashdot. Harr.
  35. Leading us to the eternal question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    What's better?

    1. A cease-and-desist from Vivendi

    or

    2. Sex with an Orc

    ~~~

    1. Re:Leading us to the eternal question: by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      Well, the lawyers/orcs will only metaphorically fuck the bnetd authors. So I'm not sure this is a valid question.

  36. Remind me never to read comments on this site by jacquio · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I posted earlier on this topic, and checked back just now. Good gravy what a bunch of self-righteous ZEALOTS live here! It's like if it isn't freeware a company doesn't have a right to make it! And how about those insults; someone here called the author of the article a "scum-sucking pig" just because said author sounds like he/she will purchase Wc3 even if Blizz doesn't leave bnetd alone. If you don't like something fine don't get/use it but then you'd better not be developing the crack for it and you'd better not slam other people for adopting the path the rest of us affectionately call the middle ground. Yeah I hate Microsoft for their marketting and all those other companies who take intellectual property to extremes but fanatics in anything (that includes open source and freeware) just plain SUCK. out.

    1. Re:Remind me never to read comments on this site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #define istroll (id >= 550000)

    2. Re:Remind me never to read comments on this site by randombozo · · Score: 1

      Good gravy what a bunch of self-righteous ZEALOTS live here!

      Welcome to Earth.

      You may rest assured that our planet has plenty of happy people in the middle ground. It's just that we don't have people constantly going around saying "I'm happy with things the way they are!" (1) and so all you mostly see is a bunch of extremists shouting amongst themselves. Just learn to ignore these people or occassionally point and laugh at them (2) and you'll enjoy your visit to our planet.

      (1) - Well, there are some, but they usually get modded down or medicated.
      (2) - Don't laugh at the ones who are secretly working for the Orcs in hiding, they have really obnoxious lawyers.

    3. Re:Remind me never to read comments on this site by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The question wasn't whether Blizzard has a right to make what they want. The question is why they think they have the right to keep others from doing the same.

      Some of you retards need to have some sense beat into you.

    4. Re:Remind me never to read comments on this site by Green+Light · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, you are just browsing with too low of a threshold 8^)

      --
      "Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
  37. Support for PC? by harvalen · · Score: 1

    Most of the companies providing games that I can play (without the hazzle of Wine(X)) supports only a few OSs on the PC, but their generic PC support might be awsome, got to install AtheOS one day and try it.. ;)

  38. well... by y0bhgu0d · · Score: 1

    if vivendi does not drop the lawsuit, one could always get the game then play it on all the existing warforge-bnetd servers... that would teach them ;)

  39. Forget it. by NetRanger · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Until Blizzard drops the BNETD action I am not going to even look at their products again. Their blatant abuse of copyrights is sickening.

    I really wish Slashdot would grow a backbone about this as well, and stop posting these stories.

    --
    -- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
    1. Re:Forget it. by dr_l0v3 · · Score: 0

      Me too. I'll spend the time I save writing code instead.

  40. Beta Experience by grey616 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From my experience as a (very lucky) beta tester, I feel the game will be awesome. After trying the multiplayer, I'm actually looking forward to the single player campaign, something I haven't done since Dune II. As for the bnetd issue, I feel that misplaced or misguided is a much better description then 'evil' of Blizzard's/Vivendi's actions. From Blizzard's point of view a week into the public beta, there were already more PIRATED versions of a BETA of its product then most companies get with a final. So acting to protect their investments, they attacked the first target they thought was responsible, none of this 'they are evil anti open source' bullshit.

    1. Re:Beta Experience by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      Evil or misguided? Let's see. They are doing this intentionally. Their lawyers, who likely instigated this, know much more about constitutional law than I certainly do. They already have a boatload of money, and will certainly have more. They refused offers of making bnetd pirate-unfriendly. They decided on a course of action, and then alter their legal arguments to fit. (BTW: What is the flavor of the week? Still unauthorized public performances?) They have heard much protest, and refuse to back down, or even reconsider.

      I think evil fits more closely than misguided.

  41. Eh. Worldcraft 3 not that impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The game is basically a real-time Heroes of Might and Magic. I played the beta for about 3 hours, then decided that it just wasn't fun. Pretty, yes, but not terribly fun.

  42. It won't matter... by Moridineas · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bnetd won't matter when Warcraft3 comes out because then people can buy it to play instead, of pirating the beta--which is like 99% of the interesting in bnetd at the moment.

    1. Re:It won't matter... by Oswald · · Score: 1
      This seems about right. Unlimited battle.net time is free with your Blizzard game purchase--ask yourself how many people could have any honest motivation to use different servers.

      Here's one to ponder: rather than stealing from Blizzard, wouldn't it be easier for the mewling brats who are so torn up about this whole thing to wait till the next time mommy is strung out on crack that "Uncle Steve" gave her so she'd let him stick his penis in her mouth and just take a few $20's out of her purse (or off the nightstand where Steve left them--whatever) and go down to the local Best Buy and score a legitimate copy of the game?

  43. Boycott Blizard by GryMor · · Score: 1, Informative

    Don't buy WC3! Blizard doesn't won't you as a customer as their maliciouse atack on BNETD has demonstrated!

    --
    Realities just a bunch of bits.
  44. Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, unless I'm completely spineless and have no convictions whatsoever, your opinion is that I suck?

    Interesting. Not interesting enough to argue about, though, because I don't really care. In fact, let's abolish politics and discussion of any type!

    Good answer, dude. Way to go.

  45. I'll be at Best Buy on release day . . . by vegetablespork · · Score: 0, Troll

    . . . "accidentally" putting dents in the boxes making them unsaleable.

    --

    Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

  46. The other interview by XMunkki · · Score: 2, Informative

    IGN ran a similiar interview with bill roper about the same subject.

  47. I personally can't blame Blizzard for Bnetd.. by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

    I can only blame the legislatures who passed the DMCA and the people who voted for them. Look at it this way: Blizzard is a for profit corporation with multiple shareholders, if shutting down Bnetd earned them just that little bit of profit they HAD to go after it. If not they would get a nice minority shareholder lawsuit for giving up profits based on moral(and not based on legal) grounds.

    --

    --

    WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    1. Re:I personally can't blame Blizzard for Bnetd.. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      No. Don't ever fall for that trick.

      You can easily and justifiably blame Blizzard. They didn't pass the DMCA, but they are happily using it. If corporations were somehow decent or moral (yeh, I know) and refused to exercise the dubious privileges granted by the DMCA, it would be moot. Hell, it'd even be easier to repeal.

      Congress manufactured the gun, but Blizzard/Vivendi had absolutely no qualms about pulling the trigger.

  48. another rts....ho hum by Archfeld · · Score: 2

    hope y'all enjoy version number 16 or is it 18...

    cookie cutter video game design....

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  49. Mod this up by slavetrade55 · · Score: 1

    That AC just said it all.

    --RMT

  50. Reality check by BelDion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hopefully Blizzard will drop their attack against Bnetd before the release.

    They won't, but let's face it: it doesn't matter. Has the MPAA stopped shoving css & other protection down our throats? Nope. Is everybody still buying DVDs and going to see movies? Yep. Has RIAA stopped acting like complete strongarm jerks? Nope. Is everybody still buying music? Yep. Is Microsoft still bullying the crap out of small corps & OEMs? Yep. Is everybody still booting to Windows to play games? (I'm looking at you Taco) Yep.

    We all get angry around here whenever some article is posted about evil corporation X, destroying small guy Y and screwing over populace Z. We're all up in arms about how we are boycotting them, and everyone should do the same. But we don't. We're just talk. Most of us anyway.

    So don't hold any pretentions. We're all buying Warcraft 3 when it comes out, bnetd or no bnetd. We're gonna buy it, play it on our windows partition while listening a cd and playing a dvd in the background.

    I'm getting modded down to flamebait aren't I? Crap.

    --

    I am BelDion's .Sig; Who the hell is Jack?
    1. Re:Reality check by RealityThreek · · Score: 1

      I've bought every other game Blizzard has developed, but I'm not buying War3. When I said I wasn't going to play War3, I meant it.

      Stop assuming everyone else's conviction is as weak as your own. ;)

      --
      :wq
    2. Re:Reality check by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

      Conviction sucks when it keeps you away from the things you enjoy. So FUCK conviction.

      --
      Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  51. bnetd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the hell does bnetd have to do with the sinlge player campaign? I hope we have world peace and I have a million dollars before the release of Warcraft III, but so what. For a supposed technology site, there's a lot of political crap going on. Oh, and by the way: You forget to blame the whole thing on Microsoft . You must be slipping.

  52. Warlords Battlecry II Best Fantasy RTS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think WBC2 is going to be better than WC3. Even if it isn't it is a very good game in its own right.

    Check it out:

    http://www.ssg.com.au/wbc2/
    http://www.warlords battlecry2.com/

    Heroes are persistant with 11 spheres of magic and over 100 spells, over 100 units, over 70 hero classes, 12 playable sides, a dynamic campaign, great controls (very little micromanagement hell), and great AI.

    I love this game :-).

  53. Moderate me up please!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right, we'd all like to play bnetd, but would feel guilty about buying it. Here's a plan:

    We get everyone who feels this way to pay the retail price of the game. All this money goes into a bank account. Now its up to blizzard.. either:

    1) They drop the suit: this money is used on the day of release to buy a copy of the game for everyone who paid, and everyone's happy.

    2) They continue with the suit, the money goes to bnetd's legal defense fund, and hopefully bnetd win.

    VOTE WITH YOUR CASH! The shelf price of 1000 copies could easily defend bnetd.

  54. Single-player was lousy in WC1 and WC2 by fadden · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Warcraft I and II were downright boring in single-player mode. Every scenario, you'd build up some guys, dealing with the occasional visitor as you did so, and then wander out to an enemy infestation.

    Create a formation. Send a fast unit forward to draw them out. Fall back. Swat them as they charge haphazardly into your formation.

    The only time the game really got interesting was on the second-to-last scenario of each campaign, where both sides had a lot of stuff, the game was biased against you, and you actually had to struggle to stay on top. The final scenario usually had some game imbalancer that could be exploited, like the summon spell that let you destroy whole bases easily without risking "real" units.

    Games like the original Command & Conquer and Total Annihiliation worked, I think, for a couple of reasons. One, the base defenses were formidable, and those were usually pre-set by the game designer rather than the AI. Either you came ready to rock & roll or the static defenses would tear you apart. Two, when the computer came to get you, it didn't come for a polite social visit. The computer would build up a large collection of units and then send 75% of them right down your throat. Without solid defenses backed by the right mix of units you were going to get destroyed, or at least crippled to the point where an immediate counterattack was out of the question.

    Remember the dreaded Mission 7 in TA? You have a skinny piece of beach and about 10 minutes to prepare for an onslaught of enemy warships? That's good stuff.

    Warcraft I and II had static defenses that you could ignore until it was convenient. Slow firing, low damage, especially compared to the NOD energy tower or TA heavy laser. The enemy units sort of wandered at you, one at a time, when they got bored.

    Age of Kings did a pretty fair job, with the computer coming after you in force. My only complaint with AOE2:AOK is personal preference: I'm a "builder", and the bonuses they gave to the computer made it difficult to win a single-player scenario if you built up your forces instead of attacking quickly.

    In many ways the original C&C got it right and many of its successors got it wrong. I've played every single-player scenario in WC1 and WC2, and because of that experience I never bothered with StarCraft. Maybe they'll fix it this time?

  55. Your sig. by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

    Jack is the environment in a fictional series of books that showed up in Fight Club, that was written from the POV of a part of Jack's (or Jane's) anatomy. "I am Jack's kneecap." "I am Jane's nipple."

    It's from Fight Club--but you allready knew that. :)

    1. Re:Your sig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      It's actually "Joe", but I'll forgive you for not reading the novel.

  56. what the heck is wrong with slashdot? by dextr0us · · Score: 0

    I've never seen so many posts that are ignorant and silly in my entire life. I always considered slashdot a place for freedom of thought and expression, but come on people. Talk with more than your ass. NOW: warcraft III does look to be a great game. Testing the beta, i did like the mutliplayer part. I think the balance of the single player and multi player is one of the most important factors in game purchase. Take a look at max payne. Look how many people bitched when they released it minus multiplayer. if people would have taken a second look, it was in the development's best interests. When a game like WCIII can be so balanced, its great. Now about blizzard and the DMCA. I happened to write a paper about the DMCA (and blizzard's case). Does anyone remember Warcraft 2? KALI!!! HELLO!!!! blizzard needs to pull their head out as well. They can't do somthing and then say how fundimentally wrong it is 3 years later. I as a person, will not support with my dollars any product of blizzard. I might play the demos, or play my friends copies, but i will not support it. Your dollar is your vote. Remember that.

    --
    "Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne
  57. only a troll moderator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    on crack....just shows what friday will do to folks

  58. Re:Trolls (cinataS,666:erocS) by trolltime · · Score: 0

    t00 k3w1...

  59. Like, OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Radical.