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Disconnecting Telemarketers
Anonymous Scientist at UMass sent in a story about opt-out telemarketing laws, and several people submitted this story about a spam bill in the Senate. New York's telemarketing law does work - since we put our number on the list, we've gotten a couple of calls from charities (not covered by the law) and a couple of calls from Time-Warner Cable, asking us to sign up for cable. Time-Warner's calls would be banned, except that we have a pre-existing business relationship with them - you see, we already have cable. Update: 05/18 15:30 GMT by M : Oh, and if you live in New York: NYNoCall.com.
What about thoe bogus "firemen" that call up asking for donations?
I've heard commercials on TV lately advertising products that you can put between the jack and the phone that actually block telemarketers. Does anyone have any experience with these devices? DO they work? Which is the best one to get?
What is your Slash Rating?
I hate telemarketers they call out the time, but I never answer because of my caller id. Well, I experienced something new a few weeks ago. Phone spam. Having enough experience with spam I didn't fall for it, but my parents did. My caller ID read Moneyclaims or something like that. Well, I knew it was a telemarketer. My dad did not. So he calls them and gets a recording saying go to a website. So he tells me go to the site so he can get his money that someone owes. I'm like, sure... So I go to the site and what do I see, two pairs of large breast staring at me. My parents were shocked, but I laughed out in glee. I said I told you so and they stopped bothering me.
It's simple. Get rid of the land line. Cell phones are cheaper and easier. Telemarketers don't have cell phone numbers. Of course, if you use your land line for dial-up like I do, we just removed all of our telephones in the house. No telemarketers. Simple.
How does one get on this list? I see mention of how many people have joined so far, but not the method for doing it....
they try to sell me siding, roofing, windows, remodeling, lawn care, etc. and i live in an apartment.
id hate to see what they try to sell you if you own a home.
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
I signed up for this, and the calls (I used to get 5-6 every Saturday and Sunday, 1-2 other weeknights) stopped entirely.
Great service. easy to sign up for, no hassles.
And if you live in Texas - http://www.texasnocall.com/
And for what it's worth, it works, my spam-calls have gone to nearly zero (I still get charity calls)... The other thing to cut way down on spam-calls is this magic phrase - 'Please put me on your do not call list. Thank you.'...
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
We recently moved house and connected to NTL for telephone and cable modem. They gave us a number and I asked for it to be ex-directory (so it doesn't show up in public directories and thus should reduce the chances we get spam calls). Within a week or two we were getting fax calls from someone at all hours of the day and night. Not nice for Clare when I'm away from home, waking her up in the middle of the night (we don't have a fax machine). Problem is they always seemed to block their number, so dialling 1472 to get the CLI number didn't work. However *once* it did. We got the number and searched for it on the internet. I found out the company name and got their website from google. I then figured out their email naming convention and send an email to every employee in the company telling them to stop.
They stopped.
The problem was that our number was reused. It had been someone elses fax number 6 months ago. The phone company said they could change our number if we wanted, but we'd just get another recycled number.
The dimwit company with the fax machine hadn't purged their marketing database at all.
In the UK we have an opt-out system also, called the 'Telephone Preference Service'. There's also an associated organisation called the 'Mail Preference Service' to reduce spam through the letter box. Since we registered we haven't had any spam calls and little or no mail either.
i read something in a pranks book once about some guy that always messed with these people. he went off on a long explanation about how he will never need new siding because the previous year he bought black rubber siding. made from recycled tires or something. the person calling him was so so so so confused.
playing those games with long distance companies can be risky though, they have that magic power to switch your provider (unless you scrap long distance like we did, cell phones!). make up completely retarted information. keep them on the line as long as you can handle it. they work on comission, so the time they waste with you is money lost. i realize they are just trying to make a paycheck, but there are productive things to do in this world. tele marketing helps nobody. they are as bad a lawyers. just don't give up any true information and have fun. try to annoy them more than they have ever annoyed you, and you'll win.
We form vigilante groups of 10 or so, for every major city in the country. We arm them with flechette round shotguns, incendiary grenades and train them for a few weeks. We have the various legislatures authorize law enforcement to investigate spamming, and inform the vigilantes of any known telemarketer lair.
We send in the troops.
Either that, or we pull a Sigourney Weaver... "We go back to the mothership, and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
I've heard that a number of other states have opt-out lists. Where can I find a good list of how to get on the list for each state?
I know that you can send a letter to the Direct Marketing Association to get on their do-not-call list, which applies to their members (i.e., the more reputable telemarketing companies).
...on Non Sequitur (highly recommended web cartoon, BTW!)
Why cant we simply have a device that filters callers based on their caller ID? Obviously there would be issues with callers that block the caller ID (they can do that in the UK - I dont know if it's possible in the US).
Perhaps it could have a 'known ID's only' mode - personally I dont WANT anyone to call me unless I know who it is - it would be nice if the phone didnt even ring unless it was someone I wanted to answer for.
General SPAM avoidance rules would appear to also apply - simply dont give out your number.
It requires telemarketers to not call anyone on a statewide do-not-call list, and fines up to $1000 for a violation. It exempts charities, existing business relationships, and unfortunately, calls that don't intend to complete the sale over the phone. That means, I suppose, that you can still get people trying to sell you condos, or sell you cars at very high finance rates. Blech.
Photos of bits of the past hiding in the present: afiler.com
The How Long Will They Wait Test
If telemarketers are prepared to waste your time you should waste theirs. When they call, say you're interested but just a second and lay the phone down. Return a few minutes later and either hang up the phone or laugh at them if they're still on the phone.
The Parrot Approach
Do the old, copy them approach. Once you know it telemarkers, simply repeat them word for word. The conversation will get nowhere slowly and it will put them in the unusual position of having to be the one to terminate the call.
I'm Interested But I'm A Complete Idiot Approach
This involves asking them as many question, preferibly including some rather idiotic questions. Keep this going for as long as you can without ever agreeing to anything or giving them any information. Given that they are generating sales they will happiliy carry on their sales pitch.
The "I'm On Watch Out Jeremy Beadles About, aren't I" Approach
This involves refusing to believe that they are trying to sell something but its really a prank call by a TV show.
The Swithcback Manouver
"I'm afraid not, but while you're on the phone would you like to be some double glazing?" Confuse them switching roles, be "agresive" and make them feel guilty for not taking you up on your sales offer.
Any more suggestions?
Tell them thank you for calling and you will be happy to bill them your standard hourly consulting fee. Send them an invoice and if they do not pay take them to small claims court. They are wasting your time and your time is valuable. Get caller id and put your name on the do not call registry that way if some smuck trys to scam you you can file a complaint with the State Attorney Generals Office and your phone company annoyance call bureau. Since you have got caller id you have a verified record and the smucks number so tracking down the bastard will be easy.
It's at www.texasnocall.com. Just signed up the other day. Pbur
The Telezapper will "zap" calls for you...for the low low price of $49.95 ...lol...all it does is simulate the tone that is produced when a line is disconnected...not sure this would work with your cable company...since they know where you live as well as that you haven't changed your billing info with them.
:D
Think anyone here would like to do some phone phreaking, and reproduce those tones the way the Telezapper does?...need to have it reproduced as soon as the line is picked up, of course:)
..you could always have a menu for whom to speak to come up, so the machine can't check if you're home...but then again, getting on the list seems a whole lot easier...and cheaper:)
If Time Warner Cable is bothering you for things other than billing, why not try complaining to the billing department...if that doesn't work, complain to the executive offices...they love to receive your call;D
I'm not sure that charities not on the list are allowed to use computer aided customer calling, but if they are, why doesn't someone take the initiative and write an open source telezapper...free is as it should be:)
By the way, I am getting married today, so I expect everyone to mod me up for once!
--"It's Bradford Company, slash your last name, dot your first name"
Isn't that stealing from the telemarketers though? By not letting them call you or avoiding their cold calls, you're essentially stealing their revenue. This is no better than not watching commercials on TV. These people have to make money you know. Quit being so blind and greedy and do what I do, sign up and get as many calls as possible! I LOVE HELPING!
... is that I'm expected to pay money to put my number on a list in order to prevent people from using the phone line that I'M paying for without MY permission.
State-wide or nation-wide no-call lists? Sure. But put the financial burden on the telemarketers or the Baby Bells (often one and the same anyway).
Here is Missouri's no call list sign up web site.
If the caller happens to be important and leaves a message, that's when I pick upt the phone, which then stops the answering machine as soon as it detects an extension being used.
At least that's the way I currently deal with telemarketers, it may not be the ideal solution, but at least I don't have to deal with a demented game of 20 questions by some part-time slacker who can't even pronounce my name trying to sell me on another stupid home equity loan -- and I don't even own my place.
Recently I've seen a 'new' product lately that claims to "zap" telemarketers, this is ironically being advertised on TV and in magazines -- probably by the same people who do the telemarketing. You can usually tell how well a device works by seeing how many people are trying to resell these things at second-hand stores and other used sellers. I have already seen a few dozen or so of these things in such places, so my guess is: it doesn't work.
Ditch the land line and use cellular exclusively. You get the added advantages of not having to pay to put your number on a no-call list as well as giving the Baby Bells the shaft (unless you're dumb enough to use one as your cellular provider, in which case you better hold on to the land line to dial into AOL).
A year ago I disconnected my land-line and signed up for Sprint PCS. I used to get on the order of about 3 telemarketers calling me per day on the land-line, but haven't got a one through my cell phone yet. That, plus the convenience, was worth the switch alone. Not to mention I actually pay less for my cell phone (no exorbitant taxes and long-distance fees).
I know this sounds like an advertisement, but it's merely the truth. I don't know why anyone would want to stick with the regional telco monopolies anymore when there are such better alternatives.
In Germany, telemarketing is forbidden. A company may only call you, if you have an existing business relationship with them. (And you can terminate that relationsship and demand that they delete data about you.) I.e. opt-in, not opt-out. That's IMO the only sane way.
It works - I don't remember *ever* being called by telemarketers. And that although I am listed in the phone book.
BTW: In Germany, all my data belongs to me, too.
BTW2: It does not work for faxes. I made the error to enlist my number in the fax phone book and get spammed by fax about once or twice a week.
Some of what I said might be wrong.
We use a $5 a month service from Bellsouth called "Privacy Director." If the number would show up as "Out of Area" or "blocked" (or anything similar) on caller ID, the phone doesn't even ring. The caller gets a message telling them that Privacy Director is in effect, and if they are a real person with non-commercial business, they should say they their name. Then, and only then, the phone will ring, and we'll hear a recording of the name, at which point we can choose to put the call through, put them to voicemail, or reject them with an anti-telemarketing message.
:-)
The nice thing about this is that since most telemarketers use computerized systems to dial, few ever make it to the point of leaving their name. And fewer still have the chutzpah to do so. And (as an added bonus), bill collectors also use "out of area" frequently, so many of them get zapped as well.
Our telemarketing calls went from about twenty a day (based on caller ID when we were out, too), to nearly zero (occasionally, a local call slips through). It's a great setup.
<story from hell> In January I dropped MCI as my long distance carrier in favor of Working Assets (a company with morals!). Well despite telling MCI 3 times I had changed phone companies, they kept billing me. I called and complained and they told me it was taken care of.
Then one morning in mid April I got an electronic voice call from MCI telling me to call this 800# immediately to resolve a problem. I called and they were still looking for me to pay for service I didn't get (bill totaling $5.12). I of course had to go through customer service transfer hell, and talk to half a dozen clueless people over the course of 2 hours. Finally I got one rep with a clue who said he cleared up the problem.
Not 5 minutes later I got another electronic voice call - call MCI now or else! I called, 2 reps said I still owed money, their supervisor said I didn't owe, and their system was updating. Well, for the next 5 days I continued to get electronic voice calls from MCI every 2 hours from 8am to 10pm demanding I call this 800# to take care of my problem.
Obviously I was really pissed, not just about this over billing, but these damn calls that wouldn't go away. So after 4 calls I called my local police department and talked to a detective. I was Furious to learn Massachusetts has No laws regulating telemarketers, auto dialers, or electronic voice calls. Despite agreeing with me that these calls are harassing, he said there is nothing he could do, even having these recorded messages on my answering machine.
So after 5 days the calls finally stopped and MCI credited me which is nice, but geesh! </story from hell>
Please make these laws National!
FYI...Colorado's no call sign up website is at http://www.coloradonocall.com
"If Time Warner Cable is bothering you for things other than billing, why not try complaining to the billing department...if that doesn't work, complain to the executive offices...they love to receive your call"
I find it more satisfying to demand to talk to their billing dept. immediately so that you can cancel your account with them. Tell them you're switching to DSS because at least they won't solicit you over the phone. If they try to remind you that you can't easily get local channels with DSS, tell them that you think it's a price worth paying to avoid telemarketers.
I'm sorry but IMO the cable television industry is hard pressed to compete with DSS as it is and they should know better than to try to test their customers' patience like this. If they haven't figured that out by now then they deserve to lose business in the most painful way possible. Not that they will care about losing customers until it's too late (see my sig)...
BTW, the "Forward me to your billing department so I can cancel my account" bit also works well with credit card people (so long as you can afford it).
Don't ever give out your real number, ever. Give a fake number.
Businesses will contact you by mail far before they call you for anything significant (missed payment/etc.)
Better yet is not to own a POTS phone, but to get a cell, you save money in the long run because of taxes, fees, etc.
fslg503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8
Why not get an organised telemarketer DDoS'ing system together where many modems are set to bombard telemaketeers with calls to tie up their systems? Surely that wouldnt even be illegal.
Check out Junkbusters for a nice telemarketing script, information about when telemarketers break the law, and more. http://www.junkbusters.com/telemarketing.html
I had a telemarketer call me last night refusing to give her last name. Legal? Nope. Typical? Yup. I did get her to say she was putting me on the do not call list (in fact, she VOLUNTEERED to do so!) - I only hope she actually DID.
ornocall.com, I signed up last month. Won't take effect until the next quarter (June), when telemarketers receive the new lists.
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I'm glad I subscribe with call ID, because this enables me to screen my calls by the number (or lack of number since most telemarketing firms block their ID). If a suspected telemarketer phones, I let my answering machine pick up, because what I figure is that if the call really is important, the person would leave a message.
If the caller happens to be important and leaves a message, that's when I pick upt the phone, which then stops the answering machine as soon as it detects an extension being used.
At least that's the way I currently deal with telemarketers, it may not be the ideal solution, but at least I don't have to deal with a demented game of 20 questions by some part-time slacker who can't even pronounce my name trying to sell me on another stupid home equity loan -- and I don't even own my place.
Recently I've seen a 'new' product lately that claims to "zap" telemarketers, this is ironically being advertised on TV and in magazines -- probably by the same people who do the telemarketing. You can usually tell how well a device works by seeing how many people are trying to resell these things at second-hand stores and other used sellers. I have already seen a few dozen or so of these things in such places, so my guess is: it doesn't work.
I signed up online when I heard it was available, probably about 2 years ago. Since then, I've gotten maybe 2 telemarketer calls.
This list really does work. My company has to maintain our do not call list from several sources in addition to people telling us straight out. Companies have to take this very seriously or risk the fines, and they hate losing money for stupid reasons.
The web site is www.coloradonocall.com to opt out. The law doesn't go into effect until June 1st, but they've already got more people on the opt-out list in a few weeks than they had on the voluntary list in a couple of years.
As seems typical, it doesn't ban charitable institutions, companies with "established business relationships", or (of course) political campaigns. But it does also cover fax lines.
-- Alastair
And this sucks. How the hell am I supposed to continue to make $40,000+/year on all you dumb f*ckers if states continue to pass absurd laws such as this. Anyone who gets sold my the company I work for is a complete idiot. Have a nice day.
I saw this warning a while ago, in an email. I figured it was about as realistic as the warnings about my kidneys, but before I told the person that it wasn't true, I called my operator and asked. It turns out, this may be legal, but while I was on the phone, I found something else out. My phone company, PennTelecom [penntele.com] will not a.) pass along any third party bills, (except for a long distance provider specified by me), and b.) will not give out any personal information on me. The effect is that if I dial any number that is supposed to collect money from me, the company that is supposed to collect the money has to send me a bill themselves, they can't just add it onto my phone bill. However, they also can't send me a bill because my phone company adheres to their privacy policy and won't give them my nameor address.
I used one of the 10-10 numbers once, and I got a bill from AT&T mailled to me,addressed to one of my aliases. Obviously they'd pulled the name from some marketting database and managed to match up my phone number that way, but theyobviously didn't have any actual evidence to force me to pay that bill, or ruin my aliases credit.
Telemarketing fraud is a term that refers generally to any scheme to defraud in which the persons carrying out the scheme use the telephone as their primary means of communicating with prospective victims and trying to persuade them to send money to the scheme. When it solicits people to buy goods and services, to invest money, or to donate funds to charitable causes, a fraudulent telemarketing fraud operation typically uses numerous false and misleading statements, representations, and promises, for three purposes:
(1) To make it appear that the good, service, or charitable cause their telemarketers offer to the public is worth the money that they are asking the consumer to send. Fraudulent telemarketers, by definition, do not want to give consumers fair value for the money they have paid to the telemarketers. Because their object is to maximize their personal profits, even if the consumer suffers substantial financial harm, they will typically adopt one or both of two approaches: to fail to give the consumer anything of value in return for their money; or to provide items of modest value, far below what the consumer had expected the value to be on the basis of the telemarketers' representations. When the item is supposed to be a tangible gift or prize of substantial value, as in charity schemes or prize-promotion schemes, fraudulent telemarketers will instead provide what they term a gimme gift. The diamond watch that the consumer thought would be worth many hundreds or thousands of dollars, for example, proves to be an inexpensively produced watch with a small diamond chip, for which the fraudulent telemarketer may have paid only $30 to $60.
(2) To obtain immediate payment before the victim can inspect the item of value they expect to receive. Regardless of what good or service a fraudulent telemarketer says he is offering -- investment items, magazine subscriptions, or office supplies, for example -- a fraudulent telemarketer will always insist on advance payment by the consumer before the consumer receives that good or service. If consumers were to receive the promised goods or services before payment, and realized that the good or service was of little or no value, most of them would likely cancel the transaction and refuse payment.
Fraudulent telemarketers therefore routinely make false and misleading representations to the effect that the consumer must act immediately if he or she is to receive the promised good or service. These representations may suggest that the opportunity being offered is of limited quantity or duration, or that there are others also seeking that opportunity. In addition, fraudulent telemarketers usually persuade the victims to send their money by some means of expedited delivery that allows the telemarketers to receive the victims' payments as quickly as possible. For victims who have checks or money orders, the telemarketers use nationally advertised courier delivery services, which will deliver victims' checks by the next business day. For victims who have credit cards, the telemarketers obtain merchant accounts at financial institutions, so that the credit-card number can be processed immediately.
(3) To create a aura of legitimacy about their operations, by trying to resemble legitimate telemarketing operations, legitimate businesses, or legitimate government agencies. Magazine-subscription schemes, for example, often tell consumers, We're just like a nationally publicized magazine-distribution organization, and in some cases have simply lied to consumers by stating that they are the nationally publicized organization. Telemarketers in rip-and-tear schemes or recovery-room schemes often falsely impersonate federal agents or other government officials to lend greater credibility to their demands for money.
Another factor that distinguishes fraudulent from legitimate telemarketing operations is reloading. Reloading is a term that refers to the fraudulent telemarketer's practice of recontacting victims, after their initial transactions with the telemarketer, and soliciting them for additional payments. In prize-promotion schemes, for example, victims are often told that they are now eligible for even higher levels and values of prizes, for which they must pay additional (nonexistent) fees or taxes. Because reload transactions typically demand increasingly substantial amounts of money from victims, they provide fraudulent telemarketers with their most substantial profits, while causing consumers increasingly large losses that they will never recoup voluntarily from the fraudulent telemarketers.
A third factor that distinguishes fraudulent from legitimate telemarketing operations is the fraudulent telemarketer's general reluctance to contact prospective victims who reside in the state where the telemarketing operation conducts its business. Fraudulent telemarketers recognize that if they contact victims located outside their state, any victims who later realize that they may have been defrauded are likely to be uncertain about which law enforcement agency they should contact with complaints, and less likely to travel directly to the telemarketing operation and confront the telemarketers about their losses.
Although many consumers apparently find it difficult to believe that there are people who will contact them on the telephone and lie and misrepresent facts in order to get their money, the reality is that at any given time, there are at least several hundred fraudulent telemarketing operations -- some of them employing as many as several dozen people -- in North America that routinely seek to defraud consumers in the United States and Canada. Moreover, these schemes generally do not choose their victims at random. Fraudulent telemarketers routinely buy leads -- that is, listings of names, addresses, and phone numbers of persons who have been defrauded in previous telemarketing schemes (and typically the amount of their last transaction with a fraudulent telemarketer) -- from each other and from lead brokers, companies that engage exclusively in buying and selling fraudulent telemarketers' leads. Although leads are relatively costly to the fraudulent telemarketer -- as much as $10 or even $100 per lead in some cases -- they also indicate to the fraudulent telemarketer which consumers are most likely to be persuaded to send substantial amounts of money that will far exceed the cost of the leads.
Firms giving references may provide the names of "touts" or "singers." "Touts" and "singers" are people who praise the telemarketer's services, but who actually are part of the scheme. Telemarketers also sometimes give as a reference an organization with a name similar to the "Better Business Bureau" ("BBB"), but which in reality has nothing to do with a legitimate local BBB.
One fun thing to do is to listen to their pitch. Every few seconds or so politely interrupt the sales person for one moment, turn away from the phone and yell with a thick redneck accent, "you f*@#ing whore!!! Get your $#@*! in the kitchen!" Then apologize to the sales person. Gradually escalate the interruptions by making beating sounds or having your girlfriend start crying or scream.
Someone you trust is one of us.
The opt-out system in NY works great. There are few exemptions, and there are penalties.
The one thing that HAS been a problem are survey callers now. I've gotten called a dozen times in the past two weeks DURING DINNER asking if I would like to participate in a survey. I asked on of the to take me off their list and the claim that they do not have lists. ARGHHH
I don't want the lack of unsolicited commercilal calls to be replaced with surveys...
Fraudulent telemarketers usually sound no different from anyone else with whom you talk on the telephone. People who work in telemarketing schemes may be male or female, relatively young or middle-aged, and come from all areas of the country and many racial and ethnic backgrounds. In addition, many fraudulent telemarketers try to make their prospective victims believe that they genuinely care about the welfare and interests of the victims. In tape-recorded conversations that the FBI made during Operation Disconnect and Operation Senior Sentinel, it is common to hear fraudulent telemarketers try to ingratiate themselves with the people they call, particularly with older people, and to persuade them to rely on the telemarketers to look out for the victim in carrying out the transaction for which the victim is to send money.
The reality is that in the experience of law-enforcement and regulatory authorities who have investigated telemarketing fraud, fraudulent telemarketers know, when they contact their victims, that neither they nor their company will do anything to protect a victim's interests or to conduct an honest business transaction with a victim. Indeed, they often express contempt for their victims, and use derogatory terms like mooch when they talk about a victim they have contacted.
A telemarketing scheme has only two objects: to obtain as much money as possible from its victims, preferably by the quickest possible means; and to retain as much money as possible from those victims if they later complain to the telemarketer or to the authorities. While larger telemarketing schemes have what they call customer service departments, the real purpose of these departments is to resist returning any money to the customer for as long as possible. Some customer service departments will therefore offer the complaining victim another gimme gift, or at best a partial refund, rather than cancel the transaction or return the victim's money. Usually, fraudulent telemarketers will make a full refund only if they determine that the victim has complained to a state attorney general or to the FBI or other criminal law-enforcement agency. Consumers therefore cannot rely solely on what they hear over the telephone in deciding whether a telemarketer who calls is legitimate.
And make the callER pay for the telephonecall.
/. has been over this a dozen times, but I STILL don't understand the logic behind making the recipient of a telephonecall foot the bill.
I know
In the state of Indiana, try the Attorney General's site. The constitutionality of the law is currently under attack by a Kirby vacuum cleaner sales company.
-Chris
They try to make it hard for you to sign up. For years, you could only sign up by mail. You couldn't do it online line for "security reasons". Yeaaaa, riiight. Now it cost $5 online, but it's still free by snail mail.
Now I'm also on the Texas list, and I haven't had a call since I signed up.
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
I've heard commercials on TV lately advertising products that you can put between the jack and the phone that actually block telemarketers. Does anyone have any experience with these devices? DO they work? Which is the best one to get?
:-) However I do know this: if you use that device you may experience occasional problems receiving calls from pay-phones. Many privately-owned payphones (you know, mostly the weird looking ones owned by some private phone operator that charges $5 per minute) are not properly provisioned to process out-of-band call signaling, and the circuitry in the payphone listens to the voice line in order to figure out what happened to the dialed call (busy, ringing, no answer, human speech, etc...) If the payphone hears a SIT it will disconnect the line even though the call will actually go through.
There are several brand names these gizmos are sold under, the most common one is called a "Telezapper". The way they work is that every time you pick up the phone the device sends out that three-note high-pitched tone you sometimes hear when you misdial and reach an invalid number, or you get an "all circuits are busy" recording.
It's called a SIT tone - "Special Information Tone" - and is used by the phone company to indicate that the dialed number cannot be reached for some reason. It's actually not used in most places since that kind of information is now transmitted out-of-band with the voice call, but is used for compatibility reasons in case the call originates from some ancient phone switch in Antarctica which does not receive out-of-band signalling, and listens to the voice path to figure out what happened to the phone call.
The idea behind the telezapper is that many telemarketing calls are robo-dialed, and the telemarketer is put on the line only after you pick up the phone and answer (which is why many times you get a short delay after you say hello, before some sleazebag starts yammering into your ear trying to peddle some junk). If the telemarketers' dialer detects that the call didn't go through, it never even goes to a human. The idea is that if the robodialer hears a SIT it will assume that the phone number is invalid, and the phone number will be automatically removed from the telemarketer's phone list.
In any case, that's how it's supposed to work in theory. I wouldn't know, since I'm in NY and I don't get phonespam no mo'.
Telephone: Telephone Preference Service
E-mail: E-mail Preference Service
Fax: Fax Preference Service
Snail mail: Mail Preference Service
My wife owns an Internet-based business, which she runs out of our home. So, for the most part, she also gets all the telemarketers. We have caller ID, and most often she doesn't answer. But occasionally, she'll pick up and harass them mercilessly for a minute or two, then hang up. She says it's a great stress reliever.
I wonder if other people do this, too. Maybe it's a measure of the X generation: taking the "dehumanized" cold-call, and using it as a digital, psychological punching-bag of sorts. Every generation has had their issues and their coping strategies, and this one literally takes the previous generation's invention and reduces it into the POTS equivalent of a television commercial.
Oh, and as for the SIT pattern: hang on, I've got it here somewhere. Okay, the approximations are: 914Hz, 1371Hz, 1776Hz. Yes, the 1776 was intentional, and when I find the spec, I'll be more specific about the frequencies and durations.
Here is the story. Local TV station got one, tested it, found they're crap. Thousands of other unsuspecting idiots found out the hard way...they bought one. :P
Obviously, there's a much simpler solution to the telemarketing plague. Just build your own little cabin out there in the bush and move there. Forget you own a house with phone, fax and email. :)
People lived like that 2000 years ago, and i haven't seen any history book on those days, in which people are know to complain about telemarketers
this sig has intentionally been left blank
The call sought to entice me to subscribe to AT&T's cable modem service. I was already a customer, so I was baffled as to why they didn't have a cross-check system to prevent calling their own customers. But more importantly, their use of an ADAD was illegal in California, if they were calling non-customers.
I made a lot of phone calls and eventually spoke with AT&T Broadband's in-house legal counsel in Colorado. To his credit, he immediately recognized the legal issue and promptly ordered that the campaign be suspended pending his investigation.
In the end, his investigation determined that the ONLY people being called with the sales pitch for AT&T Cable Modem service were existing customers of AT&T's cable modem service. While this meant that the calls were technically not illegal (since it is legal to use ADADs to call your own customers), it was obviously a colossal waste of time and effort, which could only serve to annoy existing customers.
Naturally, the intent of the marketing team at AT&T Broadband was to call their cable-TV customers who did NOT already have cable-modem service. However, it turned out that the company had internal "checks and balances" that prevented the "cable modem" people from getting access to the "non-modem cable" customers.
Later, AT&T used the same ADAD technology to call its customers on Saturday, December 5 to inform them that the @home service ended on December 4 (as if they didn't already know) and several days later, the ADADs were used to notify cable modem customers that service had been restored through AT&T Broadband's own network. Now there is a valid use of ADAD technology.
Note that currently, since the switch from @home and until the Comcast merger closes, AT&T Broadband Internet is essentially a completely independent and unrelated entity, with no connection except name and ownership (and wires) with AT&T Broadband (cable TV).
The only other ADAD call I've ever received that made sense was the medical-appointment reminder call I get from UCSF several days before each doctor visit.
At least once a month, I get an ADAD call, always in violation of California or federal law, but the calls are always Caller-ID blocked and don't identify the caller, so I haven't been able to do anything about them.
-- http://www.MarkWelch.com/ Pleasanton California
FWIW, the New York No Call list works wonderfully - I went from getting 10(ish) calls a week to absolutely none.
But there's another trick - if you move around a bit, don't tell ANYONE where you're going. When I lived with the 'rents in Jersey I got lotsa calls (which is funny - I got a great professional rate deal for Time magazine when I was 15 because my father told them I was a psychiatrist. I guess they assumed I needed it for my waiting room or something) Anyway, when I moved to Queens I told the Phone Company, ConEd, and the NYTimes where I was going. Haven't been called or spammed since.
triv
I saw a brief mention of this on the local news in Raleigh,North Carolina. The anchor said something about it being under consideration here.
Jay Nixon has started a no call law effective July 1, 2002 for Missourians -- Missouri No Call Law
From the FAQ:
How much does it cost to place my telephone number(s) on the "No Call" List?
It costs $6.50 for each telephone number per year. Annual renewals are $3.00 for each telephone number per year.
Ever since I got my new cordless phone that has caller ID, this tick I've developed has me clicking the "talk" button twice in rapid succession every time I see "Unknown Name/Unknown Number" in the Caller ID info. Unfortunately, this means that the caller, er, telemarketer, gets disconnected before I even get a chance to say hello. Bummer.
Just hang up.
The second I know it's a telemarketer on the line, I simply hang up--no explanations needed, wanted, or given. Sure it's mean and cruel, but hey, they're the ones who are intruding on my time, trying to sell me junk that I don't want or need.
The strange thing is that I think that they're starting to get the hint. The number of telemarketing calls I've gotten in the past few months has fallen off dramatically...
In short, who needs laws to take care of this when it's so simple to take care of yourself? Have we become such a nation of docile sheep that we'll take anything that anyone dishes out at us? I certainly hope not!
-- Shamus
Things have been looking brighter ever since I gave up hope
I don't get spam calls on my cell phone, probably because there's a federal law against making unsolicited calls to cell phones.
So, when a business wants my phone number, I give them my cell phone number. They can call me if they have a legitimate business reason (like, "your order is ready for pickup"), but they can't make any money selling that phone number to anyone else.
Once in the past year I did get a spam call that was covered by "existing business relationship", but the guy doing it seemed a bit sheepish about it.
www.ornocall.com
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
This page has a list of web site links to all the states that currently have a "no call" program in place, or will have one in place in the near future. The article is dated April 2002, so it should have up-to-date information.
/ Ma y/ahead/telemarket.html
http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2002
For anyone from California, I'll save you the trouble, we have a program that will be going into effect in 2003. So, we're on the above list, but the link doesn't let you put your number on the list yet.
Rob
"No advertising" stickers on your physical mailbox are - mostly - also respected here.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that both of these mechanisms are merely advisory with no legal sanctions behind them. Companies operating in Switzerland seem to have worked out that if people signal that they don't want junk mail and junk faxes and junk phone calls then it's a bad idea to irritate them by ignoring these signals. Of course, in Switzerland the citizenry gets to vote directly on issues at all levels of government from local community up to national, and if telemarketeers and their like really pissed off the general public they might find that the federal government would be instructed by voters to Do Something About It.
I am on the Georgia list, and it works great.
Here is the Georgia sign up page
My phone company had a telemarketer call me to offer a 'no-telemarketers' service where they would put a block on my line that would prevent telemarketers from calling me.
I asked him if, had I already had the service, it would have blocked him. He said, 'No, of course not.'
The funniest part, he didn't see the irony of it.
I told him I'd pass.
NO! It will not work.
I worked for years in an office which sold ********** over the phone. Everytime there is something new the company which provides the "robo-dial" equipment sends you another hack.
Our local telco (Cincinnati Bell) introduced the system which makes you enter your phone number so the person you are calling can see who it is. This system was supposed to fool robo-dialers, but they also sold us the hack. After a day of slow calls Tele-Direct (robo-dail-r-us) uploaded a hack from their Arizona office over the modem and we were back to full business.
About your "Tele-zapper". A local TV station tested these systems (partially owned by the company I did telemarketing for...) and none worked.
I've been told by people that a hack has already been put into the system so that it just ignores the tone. Not suprising because we had many options on the computer system (the end user computers) to delete numbers because they were disconnected or changed.
Get your Unix fortune now!
To get added to Indiana's list, click here.
A description of the law can be seen here.
Utilizing magnetic schemata since
I'm not sure if they are illegal in South Africa, but I don't ever remember getting such a call. Part of that is that it is not socially acceptable.
:-P
Nobody would buy anything because they would be too busy screaming at you or hanging up in a huff. This is a GOOD thing, I think.
Perhaps with enough opt-out etc. crap in the USA, it will eventually get to the point where cold calling people is simply considered so rude it won't work any more.
I really think opt-outs are the lowest sort of weasling. They only exist because politicians listen to money instead of people.
---
If you're convincing enough, you can have the telemarketers to delete you from the company database, or at least tag you as either being "not worth calling". One technique I'd use (should work in France, but unsure about other countries with different privacy regulations) is:
;)
- ask them to repeat clearly their company's name first
- tell them the number they called was reserved by (insert governmental organisation) and is not listed anywhere, OR that you never authorized the company to store your data in the first place, which is illegal (can scare the average telemarketer)
- insist in asking them how they got the number (it's illegal to sell / transfer confidential data between companies without the person's consent here)
They'd rather delete one entry in their database than take the risk
It works best when your number is not listed in publicly available phone books, of course - which generally gives about one telemarketting-free year to enjoy. One can opt-out when signing with a TelCo.
There are more common pranks, like pretending to be an employee of the phone order service of some random porn company, answering in a foreign language, trying your best at being inaudible and slow (telemarketers have quotas to fill, generally, they'll hang up and try another number if it's hopeless).
The "fix" around these laws is already in works. It goes like this...
Incorproate Telescum Inc. as a non-profit.
Round up a few charities, I've seen Habitat for Humanity and United Way used.
Round up Window-R-Us. Say they have to donate 5% of every sale to charity.
Call at will... No pesky lists to check, or opt-out from. All of these laws write blank checks for charity collectors.
Direct a portion (a very small portion, as is already the case) of the proceeds to the charity.
And, Life goes on...
Those that would be shareholders simply become "consultants" or "management" and get their money as salary. Wherever scum and Government mix, there's a way.
I've had very few calls. The ones I still get are from Charities such as the Missouri Highway Patrol wanting me to donate money to them... (Someone explain that to me? I pay them to get a sticker in hopes of a higher probability of getting out of tickets. I would invest but I don't put stickers on my cars.)
I did have one telemarketer call me and luckily I had the No Call list rules right next to me. I collected the correct information and submitted it to the Attorney General and he got busted!
The biggest problem I've been having is junk faxes. I probably only get one a month, but they are annoying as heck! They call at 2-4am and keep calling until they get a fax machine to pick up.
Then they're virtually untraceable. You call the 800 numbers on them and it goes to a call center with a bunch of phone monkies that claim to know nothing.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Here
http://www.law.state.ky.us/nocall/default.htm
I don't live in KY (thank god) but there has been some good reports so far.
Get your Unix fortune now!
when an answering machine will do the same thing?
You must understand that phone numbers on some systems are just sequentially dialed - yes, we used war dialing.
But the first rule to cold call dialing is to NEVER (yes, bold and italics are necessary) use the information provided by whomever the list is bought from - even the phone company.
While I know that your problem was with a company which didn't take care of their lists (lead-lists should be taken care of very carefully), the phone company could also help by letting the company know who has changed their numbers or moved.
Lead lists are a whole 'nother thing. If you have a list of leads or subscribers, etc, then you absolutely need to take care of those lists.
If you don't, there is your sales force.
Get your Unix fortune now!
I was stalked by these bastards and I learned you must to say the magic words:
"Put me on your do not call list, and do not distribute my information".
After that ask them if they have one (they are required by law to keep one)and if they understood you.
By ALWAYS saying that to the bastards I finally got the calls to stop, no special devices, no being a prick. I might get one call a month.
A great resource for this is www.junkbusters.com
I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people. - Jack Handey
We're seeing one of the vicious political campaigns in our state election history. (The television ads the candidates for the Republican nomination for governor are broadcasting would embarass a six-year-old.) I'd say 80-90% of the telemarketers who call my house are little more than automated phone messages for one candidate or another.
Last night's news broadcast just revealed that while you can tell both commerical & charity callers to put you on their ``Do Not Call List", these politicians gave themselves immunity to this restriction. And to observing the ornocall database.
I expect there will be an initiative to close this loop hole in the September election.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
The caller ID helps a lot too. If it says unknown and I notice it, I wait for them to start talking on the answering machine. If too many unknowns start showing up on the caller ID again, I'll start answering and telling them to add me to their do not call list again.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
These guys are the worst to me. When I was graduating from highschool I would get atleast 2 or 3 calls a week from the Marines/Navy/Army. The Army wanted to come to my house and show me videos, uh no thanks. Now the marines tried to convince me going to college was a waste of time. They kept asking what seperates me from all the other people out there. The cocky person I am, I said well i'm just better than them. I still get calls from them every now and then, but now I know its them. The next time they call i'm gonna say sure, as soon as you guys catch Bin Laden.
fcc rule states that as long as you nor the vendor has had a business relationship then do not distub calls can be evoked
what do other people think about this idea
a "safe zone" where telemarketers, if they call you during it, can be sued and all that crap, and otherwise, its just slimey business as usual.. like, "no calls from 6pm til 8am" so that families can plan on dinner together (thats a pretty important thing to have for a family) and if the phone rings, they know they should answer it. they could call it the "safe harbor from sleazeballs during dinner" act.
i know its a compromise but i'd settle for it, myself.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
New York's telemarketing law does work - since we put our number on the list, we've gotten a couple of calls from charities (not covered by the law) and a couple of calls from Time-Warner Cable ...
Fallacious reasoning. Incidental and anecdotal.
But still an interesting article.
I also found that asking credit card companies to put you on their "do not call unless someone stole my card" list at the same time as you give them your new info allows you to avoid that whole "4--6 weeks" before it takes effect line they give you.
Using these two strategies, I have not received any phonecalls or mail from commercial telemarketers in almost three years. Charities are another story.
I'm on the NY State Do not call list. A while back I got a call. I took down their information, and filed a compaint with the state.
About 6 months later New York State sent me a letter telling me that the company that had called me had been fined $11,000 for the 11 complaints that had been filed against it!
As others have posted above, the Do not Call law does work.
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"-B.Franklin
Colorado also has a no call list. You can sign up using your zip code and phone number here.
They send you letters like this one from Sprint.
Sprint sales letter calling person Dear Asshole
The thing WORKS... okay? The device does send out a signal after the first ring to tell the auto-dialer that it has reached a disconnected line, but it is NOT audible. It doesn't even pick up the phone! When a telemarketer calls using an autodialer, a red light flashes on the device to show it's been "zapped". This doesn't happen on any other call from a human being, so I assume there is some sort of 2-way communication between the zapper and the autodialer... not just one-sided, but I don't know that for sure. It could be that autodialers emit a signal of their own which is picked up by the zapper, identified, and then a "zap" signal to tell it it has reached a disconnected line. A normal call from a friend will only notice a short clicking sound when you pick up the phone.(about like the sound when you switch from one line to another using call-waiting) For all outgoing calls you make, you'll also hear this switching sound at first.
I've had the telezapper for about 4 months now. After about a week or two, we stopped getting telemarketers. (The device works only by zapping those that call, so you have to let most call you first before they start to die down) Since the device zaps them on the first ring, it's almost fun when they call. I hear a ring, a red light flashes, and that's the end of it. There is no second ring, so no chance for me to pick up the phone out of habit and actually get stuck talking to one of those guys. It's like a bug-zapper ;-) ring... zap... never hear from them again.
I used to get calls at all hours of the day every day. On average, maybe 5 or 6 telemarketers a day. But, sometimes they'd call every hour on the hour hoping to get a human... and if I didn't pick up, they'd hang up on the answering machine and call back. so, some days we'd get 12-15 calls. Now, The zapper catches a new one once every two to three weeks, and the only telemarketers we've gotten in the past month or two were actual humans - no autodialer. And as for the telemarketers, I haven't had a single one on my answering machine or gotten one on the phone b/c the zapper gets them before I do.
For a gadget that costs under $40, it's made my life a lot more peaceful. It's worth every penny. I had tried the "get me off the list" approach by telling individual people to take me off their lists. I had tried a company that I called that promised to get me off the lists of lots of companies out there. Nothing worked. The Telezapper DOES. I don't know about cheap knock-offs or other brands, but the brand name works & several of my family members are planning on buying one soon. I'd say that maybe telemarketers are more aggressive in other states or are more clever to work around it, but MOST telemarketers are calling from out of state to begin with, so I don't see how this is so. But, the Telezapper won't protect you from live human beings dialing numbers by hand... but most companies don't want to pay people to do that. They'd rather use the auto-dialer to connect you to a telemarketer once it knows it's gotten you. (notice the silence between when you pick up the phone for a telemarketer and the time they take to answer you... you might even hear the line switching... that's the autodialer connecting the telemarketer to you). I figure telemarketers may not find a way around the telezapper and will have to PAY for people to call me and waste THEIR time as much as ours... which isn't likely to happen, but if it does... fair enough, I'd be happy to make sure their time is wasted as much as possible b/c they'll be listening to my answering machine. I also have Caller ID & wouldn't pick up an unavailable # or a company I don't do business with. :-)
The funniest part of the article was where they claimed that no-call list hurt women and minority workers. Such statement reminds me of the fact that slavery arguable hurt minority employment. Go figure.
I am actually not necessarily totally against telephone solicitations, or Spam, for that matter. I just get annoyed when they are not offering legitimate products(as is the case 99% of the time), or use fraudulent means(for instance blocking caller ID or forged headers).
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
By the way, computer dummy, Junkbusters has the magic reply: Place me on your do not call list, AND IF YOU'RE CALLING FOR AN AGENCY, PLACE ME ON THEIR DO NOT CALL LIST, ALSO.
I capitalize the latter clause because the telemarketroid is going to try to shout you down and try to stop you from completing your statement. YOU'LL HAVE TO SHOUT BACK.
It really works, I haven't had a single telemarketing call in 18 months. Once you start replying like this expect it to take about 6 weeks to work through the system.
Talk to them. Let them throw their entire sales pitch to you. Act interested and ask them as many questions as you can think of. Keep them on the phone for as long as possible and then tell them you're not interested. Time is the only asset they have that you control. If You just hang up or block them, and they'll move on to the next potential customer, but if you waste as much of their time as possible without buying whatever they are selling, you'll do much more damage to their business. I did this for a few months and now I almost never get telemarketing calls. I kinda miss hearing that enraged "WHAT?" whenever I keep them on the phone for 30 minutes and then say I'm not interested.
Talk to them. Let them throw their entire sales pitch to you. Act interested and ask them as many questions as you can think of. Keep them on the phone for as long as possible and then tell them you're not interested. Time is the only asset they have that you control. If You just hang up or block them, and they'll move on to the next potential customer, but if you waste as much of their time as possible without buying whatever they are selling, you'll do much more damage to their business. I did this for a few months and now I almost never get telemarketing calls. I kinda miss hearing that enraged "WHAT?" whenever I keep them on the phone for 30 minutes and then say I'm not interested.
The law in virginia states that telemarketers info and number must appear on Caller ID. Of course 95% of the calls I get from them still say "out of area". Naturally when I tell them this and ask for their information so I can report the violation they just hang up.
Hi folks,
I've been working for the company that is compiling Indiana's telephone privacy list. This is an opt-out list of names and numbers which telemarketers are prevented by law from calling.
Indiana residents can call 1-888-834-9969 or visit the Attorney General's website to register.
Cheers,
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
I start my sob story about living next door to the World Trade Center and having my world blown away on Sept, 11th and being unemployed since then and...
And you know, they don't let me finish the sentence.
Word must get around too. Nobody's really bothered me since.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I'm not sure how much information you would actually get. But, it has to be a more effective information gathering approach than telling a phone-answering-inmate that they broke the law.
Don't just make some causal 'place me on your do-not-call list' statement and hang up...mkae them follow through. The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 has multiple requirements that would interest readers.
1. The use of prerecorded ads is illegal under this act (with the exception of emergency calls [i.e. evacuation notices]).
2. Upon request, they *must* send you a written copy of their DNR policy.
3. They must train their people in the use of the DNR policy and the implementation of it. e.g. If you ask for a written copy of the policy and they say one does not exist or they know nothing about it, then that can be construed as 2 violations of this federal law.
The actual numbers for those interested in reading up on this is 'Title 47 USC Section 227' and 47 CFR 64.1200.
The great thing about this law, unlike most anti-spam bills, is that it allows private right of action against the telemarketer. That's right, if they violate these rules, you can take them to small claims court. If you tell them to not call you again and they do so again within the next 10 years, that is another $500 violation. If you can demonstrate that they willfully violated this act (i.e. called you several time or used a clearly illegal prerecorded message), then you can ask for triple damages! Other things to remember, there is NO grace period for adding your name to the list. Even if they say it will 'take 8-10 days to completely remove the number' and call again the next day, that is a violation of the federal law.
The FTC is finally working on creating a national DNR list as directed by Congress when the TCPA was passed.
Do not just hang up or ignore these people. Know your rights and exercise them. Keep a log of the calls and get names and numbers. If they call once more it probably isn't worth it, but if they call more than that, then you have case history and the law to ack you up and can easily get a judgement (although collecting is always a different story). One story I remember from my research is a company in NJ was making calls for GM in Ohio. The guy went to court and got a judgement, but the firm in NJ said they wouldn't pay since they were in different states. The guy found that Ohio has a law stating that sompanies that do not pay legal judgements cannot conduct business in the state. The guy wrote the president of GM and said if they ever wanted to sell cars in that state to pay up...a check was sent less than 5 days later.
Many states have their own list, however I am not aware if any of the states allow for private action. Any legal action usually must be done by the state. Get on your state's list. It will help aid you if you persue action under the TCPA.
Here are some links for those interested in reading up:
http://consumer.net/telemarketing/tcpainfo.asp
http://www.private-citizen.com/ (private group dedicated to ant-telemarketing intrusions)
http://www.epic.org/privacy/telemarketing/
http://www.dianamey.com/ (story of one woman's fight against the system..to date she has collected over $30,000 since 1999 including $10,000 from Discover Card.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Unless, of course, the "safe zone" is 12:00:00.0 to 11:59:59.9.
I want them, all of them, be they charity, politcal, "public service" or commercial, to stop stealing my time. Period.
If they want to make junk phone calls, let them buy time on TV, pass out handbills, post on highway billboards, do whatever by any means they choose that involves consenting parties... all informing me how I might consent to their taking of my time.
Opt-out is nothing different than subscribing to a "Don't mug me list".
Government is not longer established to protect people from such trivial matters like theft, or even murder, by Corporation.
I is established to collect taxes in the support of the pay check self-interest of those employed within it.
In your case, someone in your government asked this very question...
"Do we collect more money charging $5 per telephone opt-out, or charging $X for a telemarketer to access the list?"
Care to guess what the answer was?
Note that the question that wasn't asked... Since the cost of a PC to keep the list is about $800, and the software is likewise trivial, maybe we can just cover the cost from the General Fund?
No, no. Now it's another God Damned Government revenue center.
Verizon's Call Intercept rocks. For about $5 male deer a month, you can have all phone calls that do not transmit their number forwarded to a prompt that makes them say there name.
I have had ZERO telemarketers. End of story.
It's worth every penny.
> More than 7 million households have registered on do-not-call lists, including nearly 2 million in New York, representing about 25 percent of the state's households. In Missouri, almost 1 million households, 40 percent of the total, have registered; in Tennessee 700,000, about 35 percent, have done so.
At $5/head to register every few years, New York could collect something like $3 million dollars a year. Not bad for a $800 PC and a few days work.
It is unlikely Telemarketers have the resources to pony up to that kind of fee schedule.
The list's web-interface asks for the phone number, zip code, and an email address (for later verification), but in addition to signing-up for the list, also allows you do be removed from the list. What's to stop someone from removing you?
I asked that question of the site's administrator's, and this was the reply:
Return-Path: XXXXX
Received: from [199.45.165.5] (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo)
by guano.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.6)
with ESMTP id 1331876 for XXXXX; Fri, 17 May 2002 09:22:05 -0600
Received: by QUICKA2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 17 May 2002 09:20:45 -0600
Message-ID: XXXXX
From: XXXXX
To: XXXXX
Subject: RE: ColoradoNoCall.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:20:38 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Nothing -- although they would have to know your name and your Zip.
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren [mailto:XXXXX@guano.org]
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:39 AM
To: info@coloradonocall.com
Subject: ColoradoNoCall.com
I added my numbers to the list. What's to prevent an unscrupulous telemarketer from removing it?
--
-W
They already know my name and zip code. I even had one recite my credit card number back to me. UnFreakinBelievable.
WWW
> I used one of the 10-10 numbers once, and I got a bill from AT My phone company, PennTelecom [penntele.com] will not a.) pass along any third party bills, (except for a long distance provider specified by me)
Um, making a 10-10 call is makings for you setting up "a long distance provider specified by me". The phone company WILL make your info available to them.
Just what info to you think AT&T gets when you place a call through their 10-10 access?
Actions such as statewide "no-call" lists are NOT the proper role of government. You do NOT have a right to not be annoyed by phone calls at dinner, because you DO have a right to do without a phone. Phone lines are owned by the telephone company, and they have every right to do as they please with them--including letting telemarketers call at all hours of the night. If a telephone company wishes to prevent telemarketers from calling numbers on its telephone network, then so be it--that's fully within the sacred private property rights of the company. However, it's not the government's proper role to interfere in this. If you don't like telemarketers, then you'll just have to decide what you value more--having a telephone, or not having to deal with telemarketers.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
And the ones that do know better need only to have a dollar bill waved in front of them to forget.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Since SPAM was made illegal in Washington state, a site was made so that residents could register their email address. I registered mine and rarely receive any SPAM. For all you Washington folks who want on, here is the URL http://www.waisp.org
I live in NJ, but I have a 212 (NY) number, since I signed up with Vonage. (Which btw, kicks ass!)
I wonder if the NY laws allow me to be excluded from those telemarketers...
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
"To reduce the number of telemarketing calls you receive from national companies, you can write a letter to the following association and request the removal of your number from their list." (Also lists several states no-call lists).
:)
Telephone Preference Service Direct Marketing Association
Post Office Box 9014
Farmingdale, New York 11735-9014
The above is a 'one time' deal. The NoCall lists are usually only for a year or two. We wrote to the above address and signed up for the Georgia NoCall list and have recieved almost no marketing calls over the last year.
As a bonus, if you sign up for the Georgia NoCall list, each Telemarketing call you recieve subjects them to a $2000 fine.
I'm on it and it's worked pretty well. The only minor problem is a cunundrum when one slips through: Do I hang up and go about my life, or pump them for information so I can report them. I'm ashamed to say that I usually opt for the former over the latter.
I signed up for this right after I closed on my house and before I had a chance to move in. It is a great deal, Only $10 for 3 years of service and if your phone number changes you just call them up and they will transfer the number, no charge. Also after 3 years it is only $5 for a renewal of 3 more years. I have NEVER, yes, not exagerating, NEVER picked up the phone to a telemarketer call. Anyway here is the web site for the Idaho No Call list... http://www2.state.id.us/ag/consumer/nocalllist.htm
For Colorado: http://www.conocall.com
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http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
Idahos no call list http://www2.state.id.us/ag/consumer/nocalllist.htm
But, you have one fact wrong.
*I* own the phone lines in my house, and *I* own my phones. By your own theory then, the phone company only has that access I permit according to MY own scared property rights.
I bought a TeleZapper last summer. I've been using it since then(well since recently). It is simply a tone generator that will beep at the frequency of the first SIT tone. For $50 it would be an incredible rip-off. Well, that is, if it actually worked. The manufacturer that makes it didn't even add the whole SIT sequence! That means that all a telemarketing firm has to do is check for the WHOLE SIT sequence.
But that doesn't really matter. A couple days ago, I got a digital PBX, and programmed it to play a message saying "Hello you have reached XXX-XXX-XXXX. If you are a telemarketer ADD US TO YOUR DO-NOT-CALL-LIST. Please dial XXX for X, XXX for X, or XXX for X.(LONG PAUSE). PLEASE HOLD FOR AUTOMATED VOICE MAIL..." any telemarketers that call and actually get through are breaking the law, as they MUST honor and keep a do-not-call-list. If I get any voice mail messages from them, or if they even dial an extension I'll threaten (and maybe take) legal action. Several have called, and all I get on the voice mail box is "..like to make a call please hang up and tr[BEEP][BEEP][BEEP][BEEP][CLICK]". This seems to be because they hang up after the PBX plays the message. The PBX then has a bit of a delay before its active call detection times out. Well, the saturday round of telemarketing calls have all been blocked, and its worked pretty well so far.
For those who wouldn't want an actual PBX (here's one on ebay currently $33), several companys make similar things that basically do same thing, without the main function of a PBX, for about $130.
My question is: what do you do about daily "out of area" calls that have no one on the other end? More like 5-10 calls per day, every day. I'm guessing they're gathering statistics on when people are home. Can't really tell them to stop, and my phone company (Verizon) says 1) it's legal because it's not before 9am or after 9pm and 2) I can't block "out of area" calls.
;)
Actually what my phone company suggested is that I purchase their call intercept service, which asks out of area callers for a name before ringing your line. But that's too fucked up. How do I know it's not the phone company making the calls so that I buy their stupid service? I said they could either disconnect my line or give me the service free, and they disconnected my line. oh well
These opt out lists are becomming more common. When they make it to your State(Or Nationally), take the time to register your parents and expecially grandparents. These telemarketers pray ont he elderly.
...to stop those Klez virus emails from filling my mailbox. Someone should pass a law banning those.
Since I signed up for the "Privacy Manager" service offered by Pacific Bell, I haven't gotten a single telemarket call. It blocks out people who don't have their caller ID exposed, requiring them to turn it on (at a prompt) or to speak their name so their call can be screened. Telemarketers never make it past the service, because their computerized dialers can't deal with it properly.
Some idiot in the CA assembly has proposed a state law to force telemarketers to reveal their caller ID so consumers can screen them out manually. This would totally hose me, because then they'd skate past the privacy manager prompt. Yes, I'd be able to see who's calling (how much you want to bet that the caller ID info would be "misleading" anyway?), but the main problem is that the phone would actually ring, requiring me to pick it up. I haven't gotten a telemarket call in the 8 months or so since signing up for the service. I used to get 5-10 a day, and I don't want to experience that again even if it only means checking the caller ID window on my phone.
If they want to pass an anti-telemarketing law, it should be one that forces telemarketers to keep their caller ID hidden and that forces the telephone company to offer Privacy Manager to everyone free of cost. Otherwise, don't f*ck with a beautiful thing!!
Be sure to get the relevant names of the companies, date and time of the call and one or two other tidbits: some states offer $400-$500 fine for offending companies that call back.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I had Caller ID for a few years early on. It did not work as advetised by US West/Qwest. Being a former Navy Radioman, and currently licensed Amateur Radio Operator, I have a simple and cheap solution for computer dialed machines. It works like this; most people can not tell the difference between DTMF tones and Computer/Fax Modems. When you answer the phone, say "Hello" quickly, if not reply, it's a computer dialer. At this point pick a number (0-9,*,#) and press it until they hang up. The person on the other end makes the number as a fax, and you are never called again. It will take sometime to get off all lists. And it is cheaper the that ZAPPER Thingy.
When I moved in to my new place close to a year ago, I went through the regular hassle of setting up my utilities. I was setting up my telephone service and was asked if I wanted the "anonymous call reject" feature. Not knowing what that was, I asked the sales person.
The reply I got piqued my interest... he said, "basically, it cuts in on unknown calls (i.e. those who's caller ID comes up as "Unknown") and plays a message to the effect of 'if you're a telemarketer, hang-up now, otherwise please enter your telephone number'."
They offered the service to me free for three months as a trial, so I said, Okay. Well, of course I forgot about it after the three months and it stayed on our account. After about six months, I had expected to begin getting unsolicited calls, but none came. NONE. I mean, I couldn't believe it. We've lived here for over a year and haven't gotten ANY unsolicited calls!
You don't need fancy legislation, or high-tech gizmos, just "anonymous call reject" from Qwest! (Do I sound like a commercial yet, or should I let my dirvel run on a bit longer? Okay, I'll stop.)
"This above all, to thine own self be true"
Back in the day - I mean the day of rotary phones here, when "dialing" actually described how you selected who you wanted to call - my grandmother used to keep a very, very loud whistle next to the phone. Obscence or harassing phone callers were greeted with a blast into the mouthpiece.
I'm starting to wonder if the same idea might not be the best strategy for dealing with telemarketers...
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Are there any resources for us up there?
Hillary Rosen (RIAA Goon Squad)and Jack Valente (MPAA Bufoon) hosted a party attended by executives and representatives of the Telemarketing Industry.
RosenValente reportedly were successful in convincing the Telemarketers to begin donating to their Congresscritters so as to ammend the DMCA to make the TeleZapper a circumvention device, and thus illegal.
Also, RosenValente reportedly convinced the Telemarketers to press congress to promote the "Truth in Responding to Telemarketing Calls Act", wherein it will now be a Felony to mislead telemarketers when they call you. Parotting, Delaying, Swearing, and Asking Idiotic Questions will all be actionable offenses punishable by 6 years in prison (mandatory minimum) and $10,000 fine.
RosenValente also convinced the Telemarketers to press congress for a royalty on each Telezapper sold (or sit tone downloaded) to compensate them for lost profits. DRM on downloaded SIT tones are currently being worked out - you'll be required to pay per use for playing the SIT tones against Telemarketers.
Sounds great, but...
If you want to go through all that, great, more power to you. But it's too much trouble for me.
On the other hand, if you're a lawyer who's looking for something to do and you want to do the legwork on a suit, I'd be glad to sign over 90% of anything you can collect...
"It sure was strange to see something on Usenet about me that didn't involve Klingon gang rape." -- Wil Wheaton
Unfortunately, it seems that AT&T has broken the code, and nails me when I pick up before checking the caller. However, that only works out to maybe a call every few months.
and I'm still looking for a gf...besides...one doesn't usually have one's secretary living in one's house...at least, not that I'm aware of...
What is your Slash Rating?
Suppressing theft of service (I, not some telemarketer, pay for my own phone line), trespass (I want them out of my premeses), and harassment are well within the proper sphere of government, troll.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.