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XBox + UltimateTV for $500
Daetrin writes "Red Herring reports in this article that Microsoft is planing on combining the XBox with their UltimateTV Recorder with a projected final cost of about $500. The article also talks in some detail about the massive (though partially expected) losses that the XBox is costing Microsoft. There's also another article on Yahoo that sums up what Red Herring said."
This is good news. I was already thinking about buying an Xbox anyway, but now it has a TV recorder too. Now if I can play my DivX movies on it as well, the PS2 be damned!!
Linux is dead.
LU
Now that's a fantastic idea. You're gaming machine with your TiVo in one box.
I'm a person that has both and wouldn't mind them together.
Who said copying and putting stuff together isn't innovation?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Again, they're complicating what is supposed to be blazingly simple. Console games are attractive to many for ease of operation.
And to some, plunking down $500 may seem like a lot, people may decide to make separate purchses for a video game and PVR instead.
Maybe Microsoft should be looking at their offering of games instead to see why they're losing the battle against sony and Nintendo.
I am the evil aardvark!
Root canal + Proctological Exam for $275
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
That essentially Xbox was just the first step towards getting into the family room, and that eventually it'd include a video recording device.
When MS launches their cable channels (beyond MSNBC), you'll need the next generation device to access all the features!
Click here or here.
First, they were giving away hardware below cost. Now, they're giving away more hardware even more below cost. But I guess, in the grand old tradition of dot-coms, they'll eventually make it up in volume.
Ultimate TV has kind of faded into the shadows lately, but as I recall it was only for people with satellite service. Isn't Microsoft really limited their market if these all-in-one boxes can only be sold to people with satellite service, who want ultimate tv, and an xbox? How many people fit that profile? Not many is my guess considering that TiVo has only sold 500,000 units, and most of those are standalone (not satellite)
"Massive" losses? I don't see "Massive" losses in the article. I see statistics describing a 3.3 billion loss over ten years, for a company that has 50 billion in the bank and is reportedly now getting a $10billion/yr net profit? That's not massive, not relatively.
Of course, if regulators decide post-enron that balance sheets should be more explicit, and you suddenly have to do things like count employees as being paid even though you're paying them in stock options instead of money, some amount of that may evaporate.
But either way. Microsoft has more than enough money to buy users. So they will. And it will be nothing more than a small wincing pain to them.
From the Yahoo/Reuters report:
All three companies make losses on their hardware products, but make up those losses with sales of higher-margin software.
Of course, only Microsoft is losing money on the X-Box, but the myth that all console makers routinely sell their hardware at a loss is pervasive. It just ain't so.
NICE.
Xbox had dropped in price to $199, obviously. If you are a new DTV subsciber, you can get an ultimateTV box for $100 or less in most cases.
So, we're excited to pay twice as much now?
According to Steve Balmer, the next version of the console would be out in 2006.
Question is, would they have enough market share by then ? Enough to ponder a new version ?
Also would they take a hit in terms of cost as they did with the original Xbox ?
Rapid Nirvana
The publication also cited a source as saying internal Microsoft estimates showed that the software giant would lose $750 million on the Xbox game console this fiscal year and $1.1 billion in the next fiscal year, ending June 2003.
That compares with an estimate given to Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates in 1999 that the Xbox project could lose $900 million over eight years, author Dean Takahashi said.
I don't see how a $2 billion loss in two years compares with a $900 million loss in eight years - except for showing how far off Microsoft overestimated their success.
The magazine cited speculation that such a combined machine could be launched next year for a price of around $500, which factors in the added costs of a larger hard drive and TV tuning equipment
Lots of luck selling it - you'll need it. Are they going to called it "New Xbox" or "Xbox Edsel"?
This may be the first somewhat innovative thing that M$ has done in a good long time. Unless innovation doesn't mean bringing things to market. I generally hate M$, but UltimateTV had two receivers before Tivo, still only costs $10/month (and they're still updating the software and coming out with new units).
If I could throw my DVD player into the same unit as my DSS/PVR, that would kick so much ass. I use the PS2 as my DVD player right now, but I'd like to free up a digital audio port for a CD player or mp3 storage box for my stereo. I don't care if the PS2 is digital because I've still only seen one game mixed in 5.1, and that was only SOME of the cutscenes of Metal Gear Solid 2...mucho dissapointing (on the audio angle...otherwise, kick ass game).
So what I get to do is buy the new UltimateTV/XBox thingy for $500 (or whatever) instead of buying a $1000 5.1 receiver with 4+ digital audio inputs on it. I like my receiver, and I don't want to buy a new one.
"A machine that combines the features of the Xbox with UltimateTV" could mean one of two things. The way I understand it, you would have to essentially buy a new Xbox (if you already have one) when you purchase this device. Wouldn't it make more sense to provide expansion and upgrade features for the current Xbox, rather that incorporation its technology into a new device?
I am a current xbox owner, and although I really don't like microsoft at all because of what they have done to remove competition from the computing industry, the console seemed to be a really cool thing, that and I wanted to play halo within my lifetime. This type of thing is going to actually hurt them a lot more than it would help, because the majority of console gamers buy a system just for the task of playing games, not for recording television shows, or any other idiotic random task that they will come up with for the next versions, if they don't step up on the games, which is the most important aspect of console gaming, then they will lose all of their customers.
...than with the vaporware Microsoft is touting. Yet another example of Microsoft failing horribly, and attempting to kill good competitive technology, and then resting on its monopoly to clean up the mess. Remember Ultimate TV? What about Chrome killing VRML? I'm sure you could name many other projects like this.
I, for one, think this is a great idea. A game console and digital VCR all in one. I'm *really* hoping that this will give us the ability to import actors from TV, movies and commercials into video games.
Afterall, why should Austin Powers be the only one lucky enough to beat Britney Spears to a pulp...now you can import her into the fighting game d'jeur and beat-in her talentless ass or import her into Halo and blast her to smithereens!
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
We have a TIVO and a game box. But the TIVO's in the den and the Games are in the basement, and frankly, that's a pretty consistent division with all my friends. The two functions just target different audiences. I could see M$ stumbling badly on this.
RM
Why is it that any third - rate "technology magazine" can come out with crap regarding Microsoft and all of the 'I Hate MS!!!' kiddies fall for it everytime. Did you ever stop to think how reliable these "unnamed sources" truly are? Did you ever stop to think that other than the biggest of MS bigwigs, no one knows how much an XBox actually costs to manufacture, so that all of these loss estimates were pulled out of some writer's rear - end. Did you realize that the so-called MS HomeStation was first reported on (and later found to be a bunch of hooey) last year by The Register. Did you ever wonder why so many so-called unbiased reporters start off any statement about the XBox with the words money-losing, and yet everyone with any knowledge of the gaming industry will tell you that every console maker loses money on the hardware? Sony after two years of the PS2 is still losing money on every box (though not as much since the cost of manufacture has come down considerably), Nintendo whose Gamecube costs a heck of a lot less to produce than either the XBox or the PS2, loses money on every box, but only the XBox is tagged as a money-losing console. It just goes to show the old saying is true, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Seems that MS is trying to make it by heaping on the features. Not that this is a bad thing in itself but when you do so you have to make sure you don't lose direction.
The product is controversial in part because it creates a conflict within the machine: will the game slow down so that the hard drive can record "BattleBots"? Balancing the needs of gamers and general users will not be easy.
Why not throw in some word processing capabilities for another couple hundred? Add a CD-R and printer so you can printout docs and scoresheets and copy saved games (of course a DRM drive). MS has too be careful they don't start to lose direction and the XBox no longer becomes a gaming console and starts to lose its user freindliness (never used one so I don't know what the environment is like). Perhaps the console market will turn out to be a market where feature bloat isn't as nearly a good thing.
I stole this Sig
Microsoft started bundling IE with Windows and look at the trouble they got into. Maybe someone should drop a line to the Justice Dept. about this.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
A gaming console and a PVR in one? CoOOOOol. ... Arrg!
Oh, it's from Microsoft
Get thee behind me Satan and tempt me not!
Don't people (generally younger people) like to replace their console much more often then they would replace a tv-recorder? It seems to me like you are getting locked in to two separate pieces of hardware that have very different upgrade/replace cycles.
Also, with dual-use systems you generally save money, but in this case I'm not seeing a huge amount of savings. What are the benefits? Save a little space? What about when you replace your Xbox and have to keep the old one around as your tv-recorder. Maybe I am missing something, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
but right now I would really like some more games for the thing...
Dont forget those monthly fee's you gotta pay for the UTV *service*..
Probably a stupid suggestion, but I wonder...
If
XBox + UltimateTV = KillerApp
Then
Massive loss + massive loss = big bucks?
How do all these poor Microsoft share holders make a living?
With older tivo's available at bargan basement prices of $99 to $150 and many other alternatives available, who are they after? The parents surely dont want the kids to have their own pvr or spend that money on them... the hardcore adult gamer is a very small segment of the total console gamer population (Look nintendo is targetting kids... little kids... there's a reason for this) Along with this the PVR market is having trouble... most stores are dropping PVR's (you cant get a tivo in best buy or circuit city anymore...) as the sales are prett much over with.. everyone who wanted a pvr has one, everyone else isnt buying them or are waiting for someone to make one that doesnt require a service.. (Do NOT tell me the Tivo will work without it.. until they give me a way to set the clock without having it ever dial in to the company with all my viewing habits I dont want their crap.) or who look at the device and say.. "MY $99.00 VCR does that. why should I buy something expensive that I cant just keep that tape of that show/movie/porn feature?"
I really want to know what they think will gravitate people to this? they killed the Ultimate TV project because of dismal sales.. do they think that combining a poor selling product to a good selling product will result in a stellar product?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
But what happens when you want the new XBox III -- time for a new PVR I guess. Sounds like the TV + VCR combo that everyone hates...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
with all the news of the poor xbox sales and the big lead that tivo has over microsoft's ultimateTV device, i have to admit this seems like a desperate attempt to boost their sales by combining both products. give it a couple of months and they'll want to throw in webtv with the package.
Add in a microwave oven and you've got a deal.
word.
Include R&D costs in the price of the console. Most console build-prices only take into account the labor and parts that go into it, not the research and development efforts that have been conducted over at least two years prior to the launch of the console.
On the other hand, Microsoft didn't exactly do any R&D on the console itself, so much as how to apply it. When it came down to designing the console, they probably could have just as easily had Dell build them ten million Xboxes...
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Call me petty, but this x-box business gives me a warm feeling in my heart. In buying an xbox, you can kill two birds with one stone:
1. Get a fairly cool game console.
2. Cost Microsoft $150+.
Talk about the best of both worlds. This is the closest we may ever come to the truly just world where Microsoft pays us for using their products.
Wouldn't these two be better seperated? Will I be able to record while gaming? What if the game I am playing is making heavy use of the harddrive? even with two hardrives I would imagine that if both functions (gaming/dvr) are being maxxed out there could be a problem...
Also, what happens if a game crashes the console? - it's not like crashes on console games are unheard of - on any platform...
The article also talks in some detail about the massive (though partially expected) losses that the XBox is costing Microsoft.
...go buy them XBoxen and bankrupt M$!
I think all companies with a large enough income should have something like this: a voucher you can buy for $100 that will fine the company $200 (only one per person per company allowed per year). This would be the ultimate in consumer feedback: if you suck so much that people would want to pay money to see you lose money, you have to take the hint.
Well, I think there's a system like that already. It's called lawyers and taxpayer's money... Except in my system the government gets the money, not the lawyers...
The Red Herring article brings up a good point: Do consumers really want a combination console gaming system and PVR? While it sounds like a good idea at first, they bring up the point that recording a show is a VERY disk-intensive operation. How will this affect game play?
Perhaps if you don't record and play at the same time, but this seems like an un-realistic expectation. . .
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
While we had the NES, Nintendo had the Family Computer. During the 80's, Nintendo's Famicom could hook up to a disk reading system, a keyboard with a tape drive, microphones, digital punching bags, and typing tutors....
The similarities between the Famicom and X-Box don't end there.
Sharp partnered with Nintendo quite a bit before casting their lot with the X68000.... besides releasing a combination Disk System/Famicom (the Twin Famicom) and a TV with a Famicom built-in, they even released a combination Famicom/Video Titling unit. Of course, the coolest thing about this unit happened to be that it was the only Famicom with S-Video out.
Anyway, Nintendo learned and evolved. Though they could do some amazing things with technology at the time, they learned that treating a video game system as a component of a constantly changing entertainment system was the way to go. They are sticking to this way of thinking with the gamecube. One box meant to do one thing. You should neve have to buy anything besides memory cards, controllers, and games for it, because the market simply won't support much more than that in the long run.
I have a feeling Nintendo knows the game market much better than Microsoft does, and slightly better than Sony does.... if nothing else, they know that gameplay rules, and if Sony's developers don't keep producing games that match Nintendo's consistent level of quality, customers won't keep buying Playstation titles. Nintendo's in-house titles were matched in closest by Sega, and the Gamecube shows that Nintendo learned from Sega's mistakes in the hardware department.
Interesting - Sony & Nintendo designed their units from scratch so as they ramp up their production volume of custom chips they get sizable decreases in cost.
Microsoft went with mostly standard parts which already had sizeable production volumes, so there wasn't nearly as much room for their cost to drop down. Even worse, their CPU speed is now lower than anything sold in the PC market, so Intel is seing overall volumes of that chip drop, meaning costs can't get any lower. Likewise the small (by PC standards) hard-drive they use. RAM prices were dropping but have slowed lately. Throw in the custom video/audio/system chip that NVidia did for them - for which NVidia & MS are in court over chip pricing - and that's the bulk of the cost.
Maybe it's just me, but it looks like MS painted themselves into a corner. Because so many of their components were already "volume-discounted" from day one they have far less room to lower costs. Meanwhile Sony is supposed to combine the two main chips in the PS2 into a single chip to drive down costs even more - something I don't think MS could get NVidia & Intel to do - and I think MS has a lot more pain to come.
can you play a game a record a TV show at the same time. In case you don't want to interrupt your session and your favorit TV show is about to start.
But I doubt the Xbox is capable of that.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
they lose the 150 regardless of whether you buy one or not.
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
they have an amazing ability of selling out whenever they get them in (at least as far as Tivo goes). Tivo at Circuit City would be unusual nowadays, as they are now only sold in retail through Best Buy.
I know that I am buying another one in August, so that I can finally let my VCR go fallow and head off to the junkheap.
With only one CPU, if it is busy playing a game, how will it get the time to record the show? I know that UntilateTV records the MPEG2 stream off the satellite, but games require 100+% of the CPU and wouldn't like to be interrupted to record a show.
The dogcow says "Moof!"
If M$ sells alot of games then the hardware loss is moot because it is more than made up for. Unfortunatley for them people like me only want one to play DivX movies and other media files.
the nazis killed a lot of people
i can't believe you post this trash
"The product is controversial in part because it creates a conflict within the machine: will the game slow down so that the hard drive can record "BattleBots"?"
A game machine is not a PC. It's a game machine. A game machine doesn't want to be $500. A game machine doesn't want to be interrupted by non-gaming experiences. Remember the CD-I (Phillips) or the 3DO? A game machine aspires to being played, that's it.
Microsoft: Halt development of the combo unit, and pump the money into having games made for the XBOX. I don't have an XBOX today because I'm not wild about the game selection on it. Building a PVR into it will not save you, not for $500.
"Derp de derp."
divx
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
When Microsoft was announcing the dissolution of the UltimateTV team back in January, and reassigning them to the Xbox team, it was pretty obvious what was going on. It was to me.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
...seems like this would be a bad thing for companies like IKEA... If these things keep consolidating, I won't need to run out and buy a new entertainment center every 6 months because the old one didn't hold enough toys!!
Aren't there laws against dumping?p ing
http://www.investorwords.com/d4.htm#dum
All companies sell below cost from time to time to clear inventory and once and a while they sell things at or below cost for limited promotional periods. But when losses are expected to be extended for long periods of time so as to hurt the competition, you have a clear case of dumping.
IANAL, so I don't know if the U.S. has domestic dumping laws, but they definitely have dumping laws on exports, as do many other countries. This has the beginnings of a very strong international case against Microsoft.
They've probably produced tens of thousands of units ready to ship,and they're sitting in a warehouse somewhere. The inventory represents money already spent and will cost them more to scrap the unsold units after a period of time.
Even storing them costs Microsoft. They could be using the warehouse space to store something else.
People buying Xbox units will create a revenue stream for Microsoft for some time, and bragging rights as they sell more units, according to your idea.
I am the evil aardvark!
Black Aardvark is describing this problem exactly.
The Swiss Army Knife Effect is when designers see a group of disparate things that have some sort of likeness and try to stick them together. The problem is when you stick them together you get a chimera instead of a value added tool. A Swiss Army Knife may have a screwdriver, a scissor, and a knife but none of them are really that good to use and often times you find yourself looking for the seperate tools to complish your task.
Could you put together a computer with just your Swiss Army Knife? Sure...the tools are all there but they don't perform as well as finding them tools seperately. You'd be better off gathering the tools and leave the Swiss Army Knife to emergency usage(ie. think MacGyver).
I am leary of spending $500 for a machine that is that is nearly as good as a Tivo and nearly as good as a console. For me to buy the machine it has to be just as good as both otherwise it is a waste of money.
Look, I'm rather happy about the fact that my TV doesn't have a "boot time". It always works. Really, every day. It doesn't need extra memmory if I want to watch the latests Star Wars, and it NEVER CRASHES! As a matter of fact, the only things more reliable than my TV in my house is my carpet and toilet paper. (seriously, even a door knob breaks more often than a TV!)
I DO NOT WANT M$ ON MY TV!!! It works great people, it does everything it was ever intended to do! Don't F#CK with it!!
I would rather be ashes than dust!
If a U. S. company is selling for substantially less than the cost of goods, and keeps doing it for an extended period of time (so it's obvious that it's a strategy and not just a mistake or a fluke)... and the U. S. doesn't stop Microsoft from doing it... doesn't this give Sony a totally legitimate grievance against the United States?
Going to make it harder to complain when Japan does the same thing to us, isn't it?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
the xbox hasnt sold me yet, let me know when theres something game related that comes up that might change my mind.
I want 2D games back.
The system should be easily adaptable to digital satellite, digital cable, and video on demand. In fact AFAIK they all use the same MPEG2 video standards as DVDs, just different transmission mediums, and coordinating the service with a single satellite broadcast is much easier than with a host of terrestrial ones. It could even be used with analog, although that would require an expensive converter or two. Ultimately this could be used to help push digital broadcasts into the mainstream (though it'd be a lot faster to just lower the damn prices).
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
in cash you can do goofy stuff like this. M$ stock holders should demand dividends and put an end to money losing ventures such as this.
http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11122313&m=1&c at=1551&scat=245
Bestbuy.com...tivo, $399. What kinda crack are you anti-pvr types smoking? PVR is the coolest thing in the world.
If you're going to say stupid shit like the PVR market is in trouble, you better be able to back it up.
The XBox really really is amazing. Here we have a product that defies the laws of economics. At this point its just a matter of how much money Gates and Ballmer can stand to lose. Its an ego thing. Every other company on the face of the planet would drop a money losing project like the XBox as fast as possible. The world is filled with companies that are not named Microsoft which have stock holders and corporate boards that actually have influence over the decisions of executive management. Not so with Microsoft.
We all know that XBox is finished in Japan. If Microsoft is lucky they will manage to sell their original shipment of 250,000 Japanese XBoxes before the end of this year.
http://www.the-magicbox.com
The XBox is in the process of dying in Europe. Just look at the European software charts. The XBox has just one exclusive game in the top 20:
http://www.elspa.com
And now one of MS game developer partners has pressured MS into allowing it to publish title for the Nintendo GameBoy:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020625/tech_thq_microso
Is there anyone out there who will force Gates and Ballmer to come to their senses? Or would dropping the XBox at this point be such a face losing position for Microsoft that they have no choice but to keep throwing money at it?
First up here's a Karma-whoring link to an in depth article about the profit/loss of each company selling games consoles:
0 2. html
http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter
Secondly I don't really believe either Microsofts maths for the Xbox, or Dean Takahashi's (he was the author of 'Opening the Xbox', which is alledgedly an outside view of the Xbox development process, but is actually really only about glorifying Seamus Blackley, one of the original xbox designers).
The article claims that each Xbox cost $325 (which is below the $375 that other analysts have come up with), and that each Xbox is sold to retail at $175, leaving a massive margin of $24 or 12% for the shop, which is much below the 15-20% that shops expect.
Also none of Mr Takahashi's articles (or any others) mention the huge bribes^H^H^H, joint marketing schemes that Microsoft makes available to companies that want to develop Xbox games. I've heard rumours from a company that I used to work for (codemaster.com) that Microsoft would give up to $3 million for a game to be ported to the xbox, mulitply that by 100 games that they want, and you've got a whole load of cash.
But anyway I doubt real figures for how much the Xbox costs microsoft will ever come out, as they have enough accountants to obsure the real figure, from their shareholders, who ought to be asking why Microsoft are willing to spend $4-6 billion, when most of the games industry have always said that they never had a chance to beat Sony.
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
I see a lot of comments here saying "Buy an Xbox and cost Microsoft $150! This is great! We get a cool machine and hurt Microsoft!". Let's do a little math here. Now that you have a cool machine, you're probably going to buy a few games for it (and maybe a 2nd controller), cutting Microsoft's losses a little.
Since Microsoft has sold between 3.5 and 4 million XBoxes to date, let's assume that we get 4 million evil Slashdotters to buy Xboxes. Lets also say that all of your slashdotters are SO evil that you're not even going to buy any games for your XBoxes. 4 Million consoles * $150 loss/console = $600 million loss for Microsoft. While this seems like a lot in pure monetary terms, this is a drop in the bucket for a company with $42 billion in cash reserves.
Continuing our scenario, game companies are going to see the number of consoles sold increase. They're also going to see that each console buyer is purchasing many fewer games on average, but since some of you are going to end up buying a few games for your new XBoxes the overall raw volume of games sold is going to increase. That means they're going to have more incentive to produce games for the Xbox, which is going to fuel legitimate sales.
If you really want to see Microsoft out of the console-space, buy a PS2 or Gamecube instead. Give game developers incentive to develop for the other machines instead of the Xbox and the Xbox will wilt.
Personally, I have a Netflix membership that lets me take out 5 DVD's at a time for $30 a month. I would rather watch 15 DVD movies a month for $2/DVD than record a limited selection of movies off HBO coupled with some crappy sitcoms. I think this device is just an attempt by M$ to bring life back in to machine that appears to be dying less than a year after it was released.
Six months ago The Guardian asked Xbox's general manager, J Allard, about the XBox including PVR technology in the future. His response:
;)
"We are not confused: this is a single-function device entirely focused on the games market. We have to focus on creating great games."
I assume they thought twice when they saw the sales figures
although macs were much better for my less computer literate friends than pcs were in the early 90s, i always recommended pcs. people listened to me. i feel bad now, because i realize not everybody wants to rip their computer apart or reinstall their OS every week.
bottom line: you have to capture nerd mindshare. when non-computer literate people go to buy something, they ask their token nerd friend what the thing to get is, and they get it.
better game selection, cheaper prices, better footprint, etc. are all problems money can fix. however, i wonder how microsoft is going to overcome their bad reputation among the nerds who influence purchasing decisions among less saavy consumers.
Can you imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these all playing games and recording every channel simultaneously.
Will it still work or am i to upgrade THAT along with every other AV device i have?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The problem that I had always heard about was that when the VCR broke, you needed to buy a new TV (nobody gets anything repaired these days...) or vice versa.
A few years back there was a big push to have copier / scanner / fax machine. Those didn't sell well either. I'm also reminded of looking at a digital camera for my handspring. At some point I realized that for 1/2 the price of the handspring plugin I could get an actual digital camera of better quality.
But to each his own...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
And in fact they sort of need to spend money. It might sound nice to have so much cash lying around, but for a big corporation it can be a nightmare. In the current money market, that $40 Bil will not stay $40 Bil for long. And since they follow the "recycle the profits" model (MS stock does not pay dividends), it's only going to get worse. Better to throw the money at a Blue Sky project and tell the stockholders they're generating long-term growth. Which might even be true.
But damnit, it's time to drop all the Reagan-era cliches and face facts. That much economic clout in the hands of one company is bad for the whole software industry. Including Microsoft. This is not a free market. Pretending otherwise is like saying Al Capone was just another illicit beer vendor.
...will go after MS as soon as they enter the DVR business.
There's a significant difference between the two situations. In the classic IE bundling situation, MS was using a product with near-complete market domination (Windows) to take over another sector (browsers).
The bundling was an example of utilizing a monopoly advantage to take over a second business area.
MS is trailing in the game console world, and thus has no monopoly advantage to leverage. Sure, they have lots of cash, but it's only misusing monopoly advantages that the Justice Department gets mad about, not spending cash hand over fist to win market share.
This is actually one of the problems with the way we approach anti-trust law, IMO. We encourage highly competitive practices until the moment we consider them a monopoly -- then a company is expected to stop, or be broken up.
It's a bit odd, IMO.
--the verb
Longhorn - New MS operating system due out in 2005 to make computing simpler, easier, all around.
Xbox + UltimateTV - New system due out.
Who here thinks Longhorn is going to be the OS in the XboxII?
As for everyone saying how nice it is, and that you couldn't resist it, but they made it so nice, you gave in to the charm of Microsoft. They are a good company, they make good products. There is no doubting that (I'm not trying to flamebait), they do good work.
They also destroy innovation, dismantle companies through nefarious methods, and take away features that they don't approve. I love being able to play solitaire while installing an OS. Microsoft does not play by any rules.
For everyone who thinks that buying an xbox, think about this: Every Xbox sold is another reason for game developers to write software for this system, when Microsoft has the majority of the market, they WILL cut deals with game publishers so that only their system gets the must-have games. With the TV feature, they will add on features TV shows use the internet for right now (play-along on Game Show Network, Home Shopping Network, etc.). When the majority of people watching TV have Xbox, they WILL cut a deal with the show to keep that feature off the internet.
Now add on Longhorn. You are watching your TV show, instead of some crappy product coming on during a commercial break, you see something you actually buy and use, with a song that you like and comedy that matches your style. You will watch the advertisements because you will not WANT to stop.
These aren't alarmist allegations, this is actually happening. So far I have been dead on up to this point.
TDY
I don't remeber wich store in the mall it was but they had a sign in the window that said xbox $99 with trade in of old game system. When I asked about details they said you have to trade in a dreamcast,N64 or playstaion plus 10 old games. I wonder if this is M$ is giving them a kick back to get the old systems out of circulation.
http://Lenny.com
HA HA HA!! I GET IT!!! YOU'RE SAYING MICROSOFT SUCKS!!
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
at 500 bucks M$FT can keep it, i will keep my Nintendo64 & 007 GoldenEye...
According to the article, MS are prepared to spend $2 billion over the next five years. However, they're projecting losses of $750 million this fiscal year and $1.1 billion the next. So what are they going to do for the three years after that?
Prior to the large price cuts this past spring, you were probably correct. Given that the Red Herring reports that it is estimated that it costs Sony $185 to build a PS/2, it is pretty reasonable that to figure that they are selling it at a loss when it retails for $199.
Similarly, Nintendo was planning to sell the GameCube at a slight loss at $199 and planned to eventually be profitable due to economies of scale. With the cut to $149, the road to profitability for Nintendo hardware, that road just got a lot longer.
Blame it all on Sega. According to the Gord, Sega was the first console maker to regularly sell their console at a loss.
-l
Does this quote in the article seem unusual to anyone?
...[Microsoft] is expected to report a net profit of about $10 billion and revenues of $28.25 billion.
I don't know a great deal about business, but how many companies as big as Microsoft get 1/3 of revenue as profit? That, along with the 40 or so billion in the bank, makes it seem unethical for them to not pay dividends back to their shareholders. Do any other big companies horde their wealth like this?
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Imagine, you can still play Halo even when your favorite show is on because its being recorded for you to watch after you've blown some shit up.
Holy crap, I wish I could do that today. I mean, if I could go out and buy some kind of product that would let me record what's coming in over the cable while I'm using the TV to play games. Something that I could connect inline before the cable goes in to the TV. Something like maybe a freakin' VCR.
Nope, no sig
Okay, I think most of us think an XBOX/PVR combo is pretty silly.
There are a few positives I see. I dunno if they're enough to make me buy it, but it's fun to think about:
It would be nice to have a DVD Player and a PVR in one box. Hook it up to the network and you've got a net connection. Imagine watching TV and getting a little icon saying you have message from somebody you're interested in hearing from. Pause the TV like Tivo, fire off a quick response via IR keyboard, then unpause and continue to watch. This'd be a neat feature during a game as well.
Actually, having a DVD/PVR combo by itself is pretty cool.
"Derp de derp."
With such a Hybrid you would have an "x"-box
that is reporting back to MS.
They would know what you:
watch (tv / dvd's)
play (xbox)
do (browse)
say (chat)
think (email)
hack (mod chips)
not something I would want to give to one company
with such a marred track record as it is.
make sure to read that TOS and EULA.
- init 6
It seems that the US is pretty fond of heavily taxing or banning imports of products that are sold "below cost"- they call it "dumping". (Think steel, DRAM, etc). I wonder why Japan hasn't banned or put a stiff tariff on the Xbox since Microsoft is "illegally dumping" the Xbox in order to steal market share from Sony's PS2.
Could be an interesting tactic if X-box starts winning some significant share...
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I'm not a Microsoft employee but I do contracting work for them in Redmond. On four occassions I have offered Microsoft employees (a Project Manager, an Windows Server architect, and two Resource Kit technical writers) $100 if they could find a single, significant computing innovation that originated with Microsoft and made it to market. This wasn't a bet... I would just pay each $100 if they could find an example.
So far none of them have claimed to find one or asked for their $100. I gave each a week or two (one guy 2 months so he could ask around).
Admittedly this started out as a way to tweek Microsoft's arrogance. But, I'm REALLY curious now. Has anyone heard of a single significant computing innovation attributable to Microsoft?
at the same time? I'm just guessing but I'm I suspect the device only does one function at a time either recording from TV or playing a game. If that is the case it would suck to have to stop playing a game so your machine can be rebooted to record a scheduled program.
I have a feeling that Nintendo knows the game market, and that the game market is about all they know.
That isn't what Microsoft is really after. There's this thing called bandwidth now that there wasn't nearly enough of back when Nintendo fumbled around with 'Family computing.' Microsoft may well do it right.
Time to trot out Chapter Two in the Book of Proclamations written by The Gord. This is the insight of someone actually in the industry. You may wish to check out some of his other writings about the XBOX to see the accuracy of other predictions he has made. Quite interesting, and great fun to read.
In short, while it may "make sense" to use consoles as a loss leader, this isn't how things are usually done in the industry. When the Gord wrote the article above, both Nintendo and Sony were already making profits on their consoles. This was last year sometime. Today, Microsoft still isn't making a profit.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
They want lotsa gamers...just read the following excerpt from the article:
After much hand-wringing, Mr. Gates approved the box because he felt Microsoft needed to face the threat of the PlayStation 2 and hook gamers on Microsoft products(emphasis mine)
"There is a debate going on if it is better for Microsoft to lose more money and get an installed base, or underperform in unit sales and lose less money," said John Taylor, an analyst at Arcadia Investment in Portland, Oregon. "My sense in strategic sales is it is more important to get an installed base."(emphasis mine)
WTF! This is why I hate Microsoft and do not want them to acquire every fucking market out there, 'cause I like games with a passion. They are so fucking desperate to "own" us, and are willing to throw $$$ at my face. They don't care how long or how much money...oh shit I hope it doesn't lead to Yet Another Market Owned by Microsoft(YAMOM).
They have screwed every other market with their inferior tech, from OS to APIs to Internet products, so that we get hooked on "Microsoft Products".
Sorry M$ that you are losing in the game market, assholes. The reason I bought PS2 was 'cause it had awesome games from MSG2 to FFX. And I'm gonna buy the Gamecube too when those good games start to role in. You see I still have choice in the game market, and I like that.
Yeah, they really screwed the pooch on that one. They also decided that losing money on the x-box was a good idea. Well guess what? it wasn't. Sony, Nintendo and Sega never really LOST money on their boxes, they always just BROKE EVEN. Which in the world of business is bad, you can't make any money when you're selling something for the same price you paid for it.
MS is losing amost 200 dollars on every box. That means that you have to buy 4 or 5 games for them to break even. Most playstation owners only own 5 or 6 games. Thus you can expect that X-Box owners will own less just because there are less games available for it. So MS is losing money on every box sold, even if you buy games for it.
A while back Don Henley created an album called Building the Perfect Beast His first solo album it surprised many with tracks like Sunset Grill All She Wants To Do Is Dance my favorite Driving With Your Eyes Closed and Jon Katzs favorite Boys of Summer I was listening to this album on illegallyripped MP3s while reading the Slashdot trolls and started brainstorming what would make the perfect troll This article serves as a directed introduction to building the perfect trollFirst we need to define trolling This is harder than it sounds because everyone has their own definition of a troll or better their own definition of a good troll I am going to use multiple definitions to create a very broad ideal of the term troll Any post that meets ONE of the definitions below is considered a trolla A message widely regarded as an annoyanceb A message which insults the editors with no regard to meritc A message which flames another user for their viewsd Any message which is designed to enrage the standard slashdot userFor the purposes of this post a good troll is one that spawns many angry responses There are other sides of trolling such as crapflooding which do not generate any responses usually These sorts of trolls are out of the scope of this articleThere are 6 dimensions of a good troll annoyance arguability subtlety topicality logicality and permeance By NO means should a good troll use only one dimension although some dimensions are inherently contradictory using as many as possible will result in a good trollAnnoyanceThis is the allstar of the troll spectrum Racial comments page wideninglengthing misinformation deragatory comments etc all are considered an annoyance But be careful The common pitfall is the annoyance is used to frequently and too loudly Subtlety is a necessity if you are going to use this with any sort of success read more about this below Here are some examples of good and bad annoyancesBad You stupid fucking nigger Im going to kick your faggot ass if I ever see you you shitface cocksucking animal This will be modded down immediately and will probably not be responded to This message will largely be ignored thus limiting the troll affectPosting factual inaccuracies is great when combined with annoyance the Slashdots will fall over themselves correcting your every moveGood Its posts like these that question the education system of America If you were paying any attention at school you would know that the South won the Civil War because of their views no slavery It was Abraham Lincolns last stand at Gettysburg that caused Slavery to go awayMaking references to your education as proof that you are right is excellent especially when in your troll you make it obvious that you dont have anyBad I studied this topic in great depth when writing my PhD thesis at MIT As it turns out the limiting factor of sorting function with completely randomized data Good Oh I took a class about this at the DeVry Institute According to the reseptionist notice intentionally bad spelling the integral of ex2 is ex so its got to be rightArguabilityPosts such as You fucking faggot Im going to kill you has no element of arguability You want to post a view in an inflammatory way that will incite a great argument There is a right way and a wrong way to doing this Usually if you are outright cursing at the poster or editor its the wrong wayExamplesBad You worthless piece of horseshit Your views are wrong jackassGood This study post link to mostly irrelevant and offtopic study indicates there is a strong correlation between deviance and Linux usersDrawing illogical conclusions based on incorrect statements is a great way to instate a nerd riot ExampleGood When ESR said that Windows is losing clientelle he used intentionally bad grammar which is inherent proof that his ideals are flawedPermeanceQuestion If a troll posts a troll and no one reads it is it still a troll Answer NoA troll can only have so much longevity I call this principle permeance Permeance is judged by the number of people who will see and read a post and to a lesser extent respond to it Good formatting grammar and spelling all contribute to a posts permeance but the real factor is contentMost of you spend a lot of time reading at 1 presumably so you will know that a fair amount of racist and antisemetic comments are posted Most Slashdot users will not see these because they are at 1 klercks PLP and PWP are ultimately a failure because few see themTo maximize permeance you have to 1 Sound like you now what you are talking about 2 Sound like you have a stake in your point of view maening you care about what you think and 3 Express it without homophobia any sort of racism and discrimination You will see that trolls at 1 and even 2 use this principle You will see that trolls at 0 and 1 do not use this principle This brings us toFirst Fundamental Theorem of Trolling Anonymous Cowards by definition rarely succeed in posting a good trollSecond Fundamental Theorem of Trolling If an AC succeeds in a good troll it would even be better if it were posted at 1 or 2 by default SubtletyCertain posts SCREAM This is a troll Please ignore it These are not successful trolls As a troll your every urge is to scream YOU FUCKING FAGGOT HOW CAN YOU THINK THE WAY YOU DO to the Slashbot homos Resist this at every cost You need to diplomatically insult them Its hard I know but it will result in success GOOD PHRASESYou should know by now that Havent you learned anything from eventWhat a stereotypical viewWas this post sarcasticI cant believe the level of ignorance of that point of viewTopicalityThis is a nobrainer and therefore Im not going to spend much time discussing it Why do you think BSD is Dying trolls rarely get responses when they are posted under one of Jon Katzs articlesLogicalityDid I make that word up Probably But its principle is still important use every logical fallacy that you know of when writing trolls Jump to illogical conclusions Misquote or misrepresent parents posts when responding Make references to studies linking them to a 404 not found page You get the idea This one isnt hard to introduce but its wildly successful in getting Slashcock responsesThis is a brief introduction to the good trolling Soon I will post an article about combining dimensions and look at some good and bad trolls in the past
Comment removed based on user account deletion
sony will walk all over them with this. Sony will invent a linux distro so simple and modular that any idiot will be able to use it. Then you can buy a hard drive add-on and the software to turn your PS/2 into the Tivo and boom. You don't want games and DVR together, don't buy that, you want DVR, buy the accessory. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! Say you want a fancy mp3 jukebox like the overpriced thing from HP? You just buy the software and a net card add-on and boom, you have it. See this is REALLLLY dumb. All MS has to do is upgrade the software in the existing console and make a DVR. People a DVR is nothing but software and a HD anyways. They are f&cking fools for trying to sell more money loosing hardware. I really like the Xbox, but this kind of moronic mentality must stop.
Thats what the computers are for. All the great MMORPGs that are catering to selling these online services are also available for the PC. Consoles are game stations, you sit in front of the TV, plugin Mario and away you go. Add anything extra to that and good luck! MS has already proven their inline strategy is terrible as EA dropped all their sports support for it. MS wants to run everything themselves, the games companies want otherwise, so its a lose lose situation. Oddly enough, these companies are all hinging to Nintendo (Who dont even have a solid Online plan other than "we have the hardware for it! Devs go nuts and impress us!") and Sony.
So you don't like the way Balmer Gates & Co runs microsoft. So willing that you would be willing to throw away $100 to try to hurt msft well buy up their stock @ 54.16 you should be able to almost pick up two shares. In theory if you get enough disgruntled Linux guys with enough money you could go ahead and make changes at M$. (of course MSFT still isn't paying any dividends and their price is dropping so this may not be a great investment right now). This applies to most of the big corps that you dislike so much. The problem with doing this is that you become invested in their future and suddenly their money grubbing doesn't seem so bad.
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
Don't forget to include the $500 million that they spent in marketing the machine before and during the launch period. Which was spent slightly more wisely than Sega used to, but not by much.
Whether MS decide to continue pouring money into the xbox black hole is entirely there business, what we should really be focussing on is their SOLE reason for developing* the machine in the first place (as covered by the Takahashi book mentioned above): to hurt Sony. The consumer gets zero attention (despite 'J' Allard's effusive and wholly transparent protestations to the contrary) and the results are abundantly clear in the end product- expensive, all-things-to-all-men, with a paucity of worthwhile original content, and an online system that is little more than a honey trap for the more greedy and myopic publishers.
There is certainly money to be made from the Xbox for somebody, but it seemingly has bugger all other use.
*if you can call such a sloppy, frankensteinian hack-job 'developing'
Preferences > Homepage > Customize stories on homepage > Authors > Zonk > Uncheck
I happened to have gotten to talk to the guy that coordinated the XBox Project at Microsoft and he mentioned that the original idea included having PVR features, but they didn't have enough time to implement the feature and keep the release date. Another interesting fact is that X doesn't come from direct X..
time and again i see PS2 fans getting way too excited over the xbox's financial problems. are they all totally oblivious to the benefits that have come to them due to the xbox being on the market? PS3's target release has been pushed up a year, and i suspect the recent PS2 price drop wouldn't have happened without the xbox on the market. like the xbox or not, sony is taking care to keep it from gaining a foothold, and that means better things for the consumer. if i were a PS2 fanatic, i'd want the xbox to linger on the market for as long as possible.
The employees in the store have both no control and no idea about delivery of product to their individual stores. I worked there for a while...we were all clueless and as full of it as any other salesperson. :-)
I was wondering why UltimateTV was only being sold in connection with satellite or cable subscriptions. Thanks for clearing that up!
Hopefully the new Xbox will write directly to MPEG-4 or divx. That will make it easy to network and sahre my cool video files on Kazaa Lite! I predict soon we will ahve peer-to-peer television wehre all television content is streamed. The new Xbox makes this possible.
Hmmmmm:
Xbox + Tivo + kazaa = fun fun fun for content!
there is no thing
what else could you want?
Because personal information is priceless.
:P
GPL Deconstructed
what a stupid reporter.
.95 (as in almost 1/3) of the 3 games sold per box.
the retailers pay for the shipping of the units, not microsoft. it goes that way for all things retail. that way, the retailer can justify their high prices by saying that "we don't just buy , we have to get it here too."
as for advertising, a lot of that is due to microsoft not advertising winxp or office xp so much (think stupid madonna ads) anymore.
as the article stated, microsoft has the ca$h; let 'em burn it.
3 games per box sold so far seems kinda bad, considering halo is prolly
--chris
Why lose a little money on two different projects when you can combine the two and lose twice as much!
While I admit that I'm not looking at the video game market as much as I used to, it seems that Xbox sales are mediocre or so and the recent opening shots in the price war hasn't done much to change their sales figures. While they may or may not be ahead of Nintendo at this point in time, I don't see anything in Xbox's present or future that could hope to stand up to the onslaught that Metroid Prime and cel-shaded Zelda will create later this year. And that's even before we start noticing that it's just about time to announce a Pokemon game for the GBA. Come Christmas, I can't see the Xbox being anywhere but dead last and slipping fast.
On the other hand we have UltimateTV, in direct competition with TiVo, who gets bonus points for name recognition (I've seen a heck of a lot more TiVo ads than UltimateTV). Of course that really doesn't matter because PVRs are still a niche market today, with a slightly broader customer base than HDTV. I don't know anything about PVR sales figures comparing Microsoft vs. TiVo, but I imagine that Microsoft sales are hurting a bit due to consumers remembering the WebTV fiasco and a long history of patches and bugs (Yes, UltimateTV has had its share of patches already). Microsoft may or may not be making money off of UltimateTV, but I doubt it's enough to sustain itself.
Alright, so we have the Xbox and UltimateTV, two products with timid customers who probably had to be coaxed a little into buying to begin with (they had to be steered away from the PlayStation 2 and TiVo respectively). And they somehow think combining the two will actually help sales?
OK, all you people that own both an Xbox and an UltimateTV box please raise your hand. Anyone?
And I haven't even gotten into whether or not this may give their competitors ideas. What if TiVo signed up with Sony or Matsushita? Imagine Panasonic touting how their GameQ2 or whatever can not only play Pokemon games and Pokemon DVDs but also record Pokemon episodes while doing so...
Only now they're co-mingling hardware too, not just software.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to co-mingle with myself
I was in complete agreement right up until this part.
"...and if Sony's developers don't keep producing games that match Nintendo's consistent level of quality, customers won't keep buying Playstation titles. Nintendo's in-house titles were matched in closest by Sega, and the Gamecube shows that Nintendo learned from Sega's mistakes in the hardware department."
I'm not here to bash Nintendo, but the idea that Sony and Microsoft need to keep up with Nintendo is very strange. This report of game sales for last month would seem to belie that notion. I wish it had numbers and not just rank, but it is the best I could find. It is pretty interesting that the Spider Man Movie game is 1st for PS2, 7th for Xbox, and 9th for Gamecube. Yes, that does not address your point about who is making good games, and has nothing to do with "in-house" games, but your idea that "customers will stop buying Playstation titles" is silly. Sony has the largest user base, by a long ways. Of course they are going to sell the most games. If Nintendo has great games, that doesn't change Sony game sales, because MOST people who have a PS2 don't have a Gamecube. Great games on the Gamecube MIGHT effect future PS2 console sales. MOST people only buy one console, which is why comparing console unit sales of PS2 since its launch (over a year and a half ago) to unit sales of the Xbox and Gamecube (which have been on sale less than a year) IS a fair comparison, and it explains why Sony sells more games.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
Maybe Microsoft should do what they did with the PC's. Just license the operating system and let clones manufacturers compete to build Xbox for subsistance prices.
:-)
Sounds like Microsoft is behaving more like Apple than Microsoft.
Don't support Microsoft. They're stupid. Instead, take a PS2 and a bunch of other game consoles, TV parts, stereo components, and stuff, and build a huge box that plays a bunch of games, runs a bunch of operating systems, and performs a bunch of operations. It'll be like a home-built supercomputer. Dude, you could use the parts out of disposable cameras too! Make it run UNICOS or something, in an emulator compiled for the Macintosh, that's run in an emulator compiled for the Alpha processor, that runs in an emulator that does the job. That'll slow it down enough that it'll work at about the same speed as the original tanks that ran UNICOS. So it'll be just like back in the old days.
A lot of people (or maybe just several, I forget) have noted that the hard drive-intensive functions of a PVR could lag or cause other problems while playing a game. But keep in mind this may just be an XBox and UltimateTV in one box, not UltimateTV functions added to the XBox. For the extra 300$ on the price tag, I'd expect m$ will be adding hardware to specifically support this. They could easily just design the box to hold the currently existing hardware from the two devices in the same piece of plastic.
#/> Pomp
Hey Gates' is richer that the countries he trying to sell the X-Box crap in.
:-)
He'll keep in floggin it just like he did with:
- M$ Word (knock-off of AES Word Processing system,)
- M$ Multiplan (acquisitions morphed it into) Excell,
- M$ IE (we know where he got that idea from,)
- M$ VisualStudio (bad copy of the Smalltalk-80/VisualWorks IDE,),
- M$ Windows (Puh-leez "Make More Mac Like Make More Mac Like").
He's hoping that M$ can get it right by version 3 and that he still has a big enough choke hold on the PC market to coerce all the manufacturers to shill it for him (consumers don't buy an OS. They buy a box. He just ILLEGALLY arm-twists the OEM into selling HIS OS. [Tony Soprano would be so proud.])
WHAT'T THAT YOU SAY? THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE A XXX-BOX? (Check it out at the video store. The girls there will gladly rent you the video/CD-ROM for $3.95 a day. If you go downtown, you can get the real thing @ $100 for an hour-of-power.
You're right though. There ain't gonna be any XXX-Box. X-Box was a stupid idea. This ain't the PC market. M$ doesn't have a lock on this market.
M$s reputation on the PC side is that his software is buggy, virus prone and eats upgrades for breakfast. People (MIS people,) are sick of it. Consumers DON'T upgrade if they can help it. Upgrades just break the stuff you curently have running.
People don't want the same crap on their own boxes.
M$ has competition and they're not standing still.
Sony can eat M$ raw on vinegared rice and some soy sauce and not even burp. They actually make products and sell them, lots of them, to consumers. Not strong arm them to OEMs. Sell them.
Nintendo ain't a whole lot smaller.
M$ ISN'T GONNA WIN THIS ONE! Its a matter of national Japanese pride.
I like the Linux-en making mod chips to convert X-Boxen into cheap Linux PCs. Must give "Big Bully" Gates and "Monkey Boy Ballmer" heartburn.
I'll be happy when he pulls the plug on this just like he did with "Bob" and that awful "Paper Clip"
Lets hope he wastes some more money before the CPA in his heart yanks out the catheter.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You'll be able to heat your coffee on it.
If you're locky, it'll boil over and fry the chip, the box and any pet nearby. (Think: "Hmm... Fluffy Dead... Bad burnt fur [lawsuit] smell. I'm getting a new Lexus. Yay!")
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
.. but make it up in quantity.
Sony should help Microsoft along by buying X-Boxen by the crate. As a bonus, they can gut the things for parts, and sell them on the grey market. Imagine 64MB X-Chip-based video cards for PCs!
Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
Is the point of putting the two devices together to save space? Since when did Microsoft care about saving space? Look at the Xbox. Now a gamecube + tivo makes better sense
---
The Xbox has 3 games in that top 20 list you mentioned including number 2 and 3. To be fair most of those games on the list are PC games (a format that has been around quite awhile, true?).
To say the Xbox is finished in Japan ia a pretty big call. They only discounted the price a month or 2 ago.
Give the Xbox another year before you start making judgements like that. Good quality games take a while to come and from what I've read there are some VERY impressive games coming over the next year.
PS2 is basically over.. the hardware is being pushed to its limit whereas the Xbox has yet to be stretched.
Why complain over whether or not MS is gonna make oney from the thing? Be happy that you have a powerful games machine which you can buy so cheap. It is currently the best electronic deal out there.
You should also be happy that MS are at least trying to expand the consoles life and give their customers more out of their consoles. It's more than Sega ever did for the Dreamcast.
As for how much money they can stand to lose the article states that clearly: 10 billion this year before they turn a loss. It's obviously viable or they wouldn't be doing it.
// The fastest Alt-Tab in the West
Microsoft will "defy the laws of economics" as long as it takes to win. Haven't you realized this by now.
Short term gains/losses are not important - Future Market Share, World Domination - That's important to Microsoft.
Obediance brings victory....and victory is life!
Jem'Hadar, Star Trek DS9
if (!sig) { printf("Signature Unavailable\n"); }
My point was simply to state that Nintendo has (and Sega had) quality in-house game development talent. Sony currently relies on great third-party developers, but it is MUCH easier to loose those than it would be to loose a consistent, happy, dedicated set of development teams. Ever notice how Capcom and Konami constantly jump platforms to the one that can meet their own intrests the best? Capcom went from Super Nintendo to PSX, and as soon as Sega introduced the Naomi/Dreamcast setup, they dumped all of their efforts into that platform, and made some good money by developing for two platforms as if they were one. Capcom has not settled on a new home system yet, but once they do, it'll be all over ;)
Good point
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
"Capcom has not settled on a new home system yet, but once they do, it'll be all over."
Doesn't that contradict the idea that in-house gmae development is really important? PS2 seems to be doing just fine with their "second rate" in-house development. Given that the game "Spider Man: The Movie" launched for all 3 platforms and is selling best on the PS2, which console do you think Capcom and Konami as most likely to focus on?
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
X-Box + TiVO : 500 dollars US.
MSI G4MX460 w/TV-IN&OUT: 250 dollars CDN.
Sticking it to da' man: Priceless.
It's been a long time.
It's worth noting that the "sabbatical" of Robbie Bach is significant because he was the executive that swore up and down that the X-Box was a "gaming console ONLY" and not a "digital convergence box" as many people assumed during X-Box development.
It's hardly surprising now trhat the X-Box is going down in flames that they'd switch strategies to "digital convergence box". But I don't think it's a strategy that will succeed. The "high-end" customers that would be interested in such a product already have a PS2 and a Tivo. Why would they want the all in one product? Now if they could somehow made a combo X-Box/Ultimate TV for less that $250, they would really have something. But they don't and they can't.
As I've said before... unless broadband gaming takes off in a major way in the near future (broadband adoption rates have been slowing), X-Box is doomed.
If a large amount of Microsoft's money comes from OEMs and that depends on sales of new PCs and sales of new PCs have been pretty low, then Microsoft's revenues are probably low, too, and ups and downs will lag a quarter or two after the PC sales.
If, aside from not giving out dividends, Microsoft seems like it might be cooking the books slightly since 1999 to hide losses, then it may acutally be running in the red.
1999 was economically a good year compared to more recent ones. If Microsoft has needed any such accounting "errors" prior to the economic resession, then the recession has been a real slam-dunk and a proper audit would show them uncomfortably far from being a profitable corporation.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Now what if I want to record how I defeat the last level of halo, burn it on a CD and give it to my friend who's haveing problems defeating it? ...and I'm too cheap to get a cable splitter...
Technically excellent, but utterly lacking any conection to the context of this article.