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Time Warner to Allow Digital Recording

platypussrex writes "CNN is reporting that some Time Warner cable customers will be offered the ability to use digital recording. The article says they will not have a commercial zapping feature but even the use of digital recording seems a major turn-around from what the entertainment industry has been saying so far. I wonder if this will help TiVo and ReplyTV gain 'legitimacy'?"

181 comments

  1. Good by NetJunkie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hope they do a box with DVR and HD. I love my High Def cable box, much easier than an antenna, but I miss not being able to use my TiVo with it.

    I can't build a box either. No one makes an HDTV PC card with a component INPUT, they are all Antenna input.

    1. Re:Good by Ioldanach · · Score: 2, Interesting
      No one makes an HDTV PC card with a component INPUT, they are all Antenna input.

      What about S-Video input? That's at least better than Antenna, if not quite as good as Component.

    2. Re:Good by foobar104 · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's no such thing as HD S-video. Your choices in HD video are component analog (YUV or RGB), DVI, or FireWire. Digital is superior, of course, but with consumer equipment it's really, really hard to tell the difference between digital and YUV component analog.

      S-video, or YC, isn't an option for HDTV signals.

    3. Re:Good by Smedrick · · Score: 1

      I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw a show on Tech TV that was going to put together a high-def DVR with a new video card they were reviewing. I only caught it for a couple of seconds though.

      --
      "I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
      - Strong Bad
    4. Re:Good by NetJunkie · · Score: 1

      You can build one, but not using component input. They take Antenna inputs and do the channel switching on the card.

      My cable box does the channel switching and just outputs component to my TV.

    5. Re:Good by sysadmn · · Score: 3, Informative
      They do. Scientific-Atlanta has the Explorer 8000 here. From the page:
      Pause, rewind, fast forward, record, and re-play live analog and digital TV programs - without an additional box in your entertainment center. Scientific-Atlanta has introduced our most powerful member of the Explorer® set-top family, the Explorer 8000 model, which will deliver a wide range of multiple interactive TV applications through a single set-top. Using a built-in 40 gigabyte hard drive, this innovative set-top will also enable the simultaneous viewing and recording of two channels of programming and as well as support HDTV.
      It also mentions a digital film library, telephony, and web access.
      --
      Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
    6. Re:Good by foobar104 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Now this is fascinating.
      The Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 8000 home entertainment server can help you fight DBS, reduce churn, and generate revenues.
      (That's from the product page, not the one you gave, but the non-login one posted in response to your message. Emphasis mine.)

      I guess that really sums it up: cable providers want to keep subscribers, and direct-broadcast satellite providers like DirecTV and Dish Network are their competition. I wonder how much, if at all, DirecTiVo (the combination DirecTV receiver and TiVo unit) has affected DBS subscription rates. Are cable companies losing market share to DirecTV thanks to DirecTiVo?
    7. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bzzt - it can play back high-def digital streams but it can not capture de-coded video at high-def resolutions. Notice the lack of component inputs on the spec sheet. Please try to read more carefully.

  2. no it still wont by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    time warner sees the upside potential of selling hardware, every other content provider will feel threatened

  3. Once again. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone else gets the post AFTER I submitted the exact same post almost an hour ago.

  4. forgotten feature.... by jeffy124 · · Score: 1

    TW is thoughtfully leaving out one feature: Ad skipping.

    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:forgotten feature.... by shadow303 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you still have the ability ot fast forward, so you just need good reflexes (a carry-over skill from watching stuff on a VCR).

      --
      I've got a mind like a steel trap - it's got an animal's foot stuck in it.
    2. Re:forgotten feature.... by FortKnox · · Score: 1

      With TiVo, when you hit 'play' from a fast-forward, it sends you back a few milliseconds so that you don't need good reflexes. The faster you fast-forward, the more it'll pad the space when you hit play.

      --
      Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    3. Re:forgotten feature.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The box is also made by the same people that make discrambler boxes. Think they won't have some kind of macrovision and DRM in the box ?

  5. How nice of them... by bwohlgemuth · · Score: 1

    To let me continue the enjoyment of my fair-use rights. How nice of them to see the huge public outcry that would have happened if they tried to Macrovision everything.

    As Robin Williams said Sunday night "You've got mail, hope you don't have stock."

    B

    --
    Flamebait .sig for sale, low mileage, one owner only.
    Serious inquiries only.
  6. This is very wise. by tshak · · Score: 2

    Instead of fighting the inevidable, release your own consumer friendly product that does NOT affect your revenue in a negative way. Then, there'd be little room (for the general public, anyway) for products that do offend your profits.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
    1. Re:This is very wise. by rmayes100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think they were basically forced to compete with this feature because most of the satellite companies already offer DVR. It may be that the broadcasting and cinema groups are completely unaware of Time Warner Cable offering this. Kind of how Sony music seems to be trying to kill off the MP3 format and Sony Electronics keeps cranking out devices that can play MP3s. I think it's more likely that this is another case of a large company with a left hand that has no idea what the right hand is doing. Even though they do not offer a commercial skipping feature in their device they have to be aware that customers are going to be using it for such.

    2. Re:This is very wise. by keep_it_simple_stupi · · Score: 1

      "forced to compete with this feature" But see, they are not competing. Competing would be offering a comparable service. I do not believe that a crippled PVR with no fast forward/rewind function is going to honestly compete with REAL PVRs like TiVo and ReplayTV. Of course, they are only trying to prevent us from stealing right?

    3. Re:This is very wise. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not believe that a crippled PVR with no fast forward/rewind function

      Can I ask you a stupid question? Did you actually read the article before you posted.

      From the article: Time Warner Cable said it will offer set-top boxes made by Scientific Atlanta in an attempt to compete with satellite TV. And though the devices will allow viewers to fast forward programs, they will not include the controversial ad zapping feature. [Emphasis mine]

  7. finally by wastedbrains · · Score: 1

    Hey finally i have the right to do what i want with something i payed for. The freedom i have been given by ATT is just amazing. I am so glad they understand what it is to be an amaerican. Seriously i am glad ATT is "Letting" costumers do this, but they should never have had the right to complain about it in the first place. If i record a show and give it to my friend guess what i am a nice guy for taping there show. Down with ATT.

    --
    Dan Mayer: my blog, essays, art, etc
  8. Tivo, Replay by SilkBD · · Score: 0

    I own a first generation Tivo. I couldn't imagine watching TV without it, it's become such an important part of my Television experience. I'm looking at ReplayTV's new unit which will allow me to send shows to other ReplayTV's (this will definately take some time to catch on). I'll be buying one of those. Now the Cable company is geting in on it, but they're leaving out lots of the features that make my Tivo and ReplayTv ultra convenient and consumer friendly... Oh yeah, I'm on that. It's a shame when companies lose sight of the consumer.

    --
    00101010
    1. Re:Tivo, Replay by jimberini · · Score: 1
      Now the Cable company is geting in on it, but they're leaving out lots of the features that make my Tivo and ReplayTv ultra convenient and consumer friendly... Oh yeah, I'm on that. It's a shame when companies lose sight of the consumer.

      I think that those "ultra convenient / consumer frientdly" features are one of the things that has prevented mass adoption of TiVo and Replay. they need to dumb down the boxes to make to more consumer friendly! Sure, your average slashdot reader *wants* the features, but the average consumer won't know how to use them, and will never try. KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

      ...while I'm ranting, they should use this same philosophy for Microwave ovens too! I just want three buttons: Popcorn, reheat coffee, and the minute plus. Who the hell roasts a chicken in their microwave anyway???

  9. AOL owns ~10% of Tivo by uberstool · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Subject is the message

    1. Re:AOL owns ~10% of Tivo by sckeener · · Score: 2
      Ditto above, but here's more from the SEC:

      Apparently AOL and TIVO want to bring AOL service to you!

      --
      "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    2. Re:AOL owns ~10% of Tivo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well is that a case of 'you got your AOL in my Tivo'? Tivo has always looked for partners; Is AOL outsourcing the development of 'AOL TV' and including some proven TivoTechnology? This competes with Microsoft Ultimate TV (or whatever it is called this year)

  10. Cable by totallygeek · · Score: 2

    I have wondered when the day will come that your television will just be another Internet appliance. Same with your radio -- crystal clear over tcp/ip instead of all the interference of FM or AM. The ability then to record, redistribute, share, etc., would be great. I think they have seen the pilot with products like Tivo. People that understand it love it. Those that don't, when shown the power, love it too.

    1. Re:Cable by NorthDude · · Score: 1

      I hope it will be fast, but I hope I will have the possibility to build it myself.
      I always drenaed of having a central server at home from which I could control everything in the house(Domotic) and from which I could also store data.
      But the most important feature is that I want control over it. I want to be able to spend whole weekend coding apps for my custom built system. Unfortunatly, equipment to make an home made pvr is not "top of the line" yet

      --


      I'd rather be sailing...
  11. Advertisers Dream by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How long before this becomes a Time Warner targed advertising tool?

    The box can easily compile a list of what you're watching, and then pop up advertising based on your viewing demographic.

    Soon you'll see targed ads in your schedule gude, on the music channels. And the ultimate: popping up while you're playing back your program.

    1. Re:Advertisers Dream by g()()ber · · Score: 1

      More likely will be a 60 second advertisement before your recorded content will start to play back. Think trailers on VHS/DVD.

      --
      I am so one thousand three hundred and thirty seven!
    2. Re:Advertisers Dream by Maeryk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Soon you'll see targed ads in your schedule gude, on the music channels. And the ultimate: popping up while you're playing back your program.


      I dont know about anyone else, but with my Tivo and my DirecTV subscription, I already get this. The "digital music channels" (those above 800) already have ads.. for Target, for specific albums you are listening to, and for albums you "might like".. which, granted, I would rather watch than ads for "pantyliners with wings".

      We also get pop-ups in the "tivo" section of like, this Counting Crows interview they are busy pushing now, in hopes that I will pay a bunch of money for a crappy PPV.

      If Advertisers want to get my money, they should make ads that catch my attention, and make sure they dont play them over and over and over and over. I will never play GTA simply BECAUSE I have to sit through that stupid opera ad about 47 times to watch a single episode of WWE RAW. Its the same thing with top-40 radio. I hate the songs because i hear them twice an hour.

      (And our local 80s station is doing exactly the same thing with 80s music now.. its an "all 80s" station, but its the same 12 songs, hour after hour.. they are on a pretty heavy madonna kick right now).

      Basic upshot: If you want to advertise to me, do it in a way that I will watch. Otherwise, dont scream when I dont buy your stuff. Oh, and you may want to look at your corporate politics as well.. its more than likely that the reason you arent selling to a significant demographic (nerds) is cause your company does something we dont like, and we boycott.

      Maeryk

      --
      Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    3. Re:Advertisers Dream by pmz · · Score: 2

      How long before this becomes a Time Warner targed advertising tool?

      Targeted advertising is creepy. I made the mistake of allowing cookies to Amazon.com, and, now, their web pages greet me by name and there are useless lists of things I'm supposed to be interested in.

      The thing that bothers me the most is that they are assuming I have money to burn. "Here, would you like to buy this, or this, or this? No? Oh, how about this, or this, or this? No? What about..." This frustrates me, because they really think I will make an impulsive decision and just buy everything at a whim. Is this really how most people behave?

      I wonder if retailing sites will ever have a checkbox called "Yes, I'm a stupid impulsive consumer." At least, then, those who really want it can have it, and I can just cruise in and buy the one book I want in ten fewer mouse clicks.

    4. Re:Advertisers Dream by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      >>>>>>>

      Prorbably not long. At least I won't have to look at those adds that want to sell me some breast enlargement pills. Hopefully they will know exactly what adds I want to see.

      the nosig sig

    5. Re:Advertisers Dream by digitalsushi · · Score: 2

      How many of you would put up with targetted commercials if you never saw the same one twice? I know I sure would. But I'm sick. If spam mail didnt get mangled in PINE and looked like it does on GUI clients, I'd prolly like that too. They have institutions for people like me. Anyways. Really, how many of you would put up with ads on TV if it wasnt the same Goldbond commercial every 12 minutes? (Not that I'm suggested Goldbond is what my targetted ad of example would be)

      --
      slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    6. Re:Advertisers Dream by eddeye · · Score: 1

      The box can easily compile a list of what you're watching, and then pop up advertising based on your viewing demographic.

      God I hope so. If I have to sit through another tampon or yeast infection commercial, so help me...

      --
      Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    7. Re:Advertisers Dream by Rader · · Score: 2
      You're right. I could listen to new budweiser lizard commercials all day.

    8. Re:Advertisers Dream by Octagon+Most · · Score: 1
      "At least I won't have to look at those adds that want to sell me some breast enlargement pills. Hopefully they will know exactly what adds I want to see."

      I know. I hate those.

      Especially when I am looking for information on natural Viagra and penis enlargement.

    9. Re:Advertisers Dream by bnenning · · Score: 2
      they really think I will make an impulsive decision and just buy everything at a whim. Is this really how most people behave?

      Based on the statistics I've seen of average consumer credit card debt, I'd have to say "yes".

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    10. Re:Advertisers Dream by Planesdragon · · Score: 2

      The thing that bothers me the most is that they are assuming I have money to burn. "Here, would you like to buy this, or this, or this? No? Oh, how about this, or this, or this? No? What about..." This frustrates me, because they really think I will make an impulsive decision and just buy everything at a whim. Is this really how most people behave?

      THEY'RE A STORE!

      Sheesh. It's not like they're kicking your out for loitering--and it's not like you can really browse there, or get some coffee. Amazon.com (rightly) assumes that if you're going to their store, you're going to buy something.

    11. Re:Advertisers Dream by pmz · · Score: 2

      Amazon.com (rightly) assumes that if you're going to their store, you're going to buy something.

      But they wrongly assume that I somehow haven't already figured out what I want and don't know exactly how much I can spend. When I go into a store, I have a purpose--often a specific item--in mind. If I don't find it, I leave. Salespeople, targeted advertisements, and customized product lists serve only to annoy and make my shopping less productive.

      I guess I'm part of a small minority of shoppers who actually research big purchases, think critically about not-so-big purchases, and view most advertising as obtrusive and unneccessary noise.

  12. Why not Tivo by xbrownx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why get this when you can just buy a Tivo system? Probably less cost in the long run, and a bigger HD...

    1. Re:Why not Tivo by JWhitlock · · Score: 5, Informative
      Why get this when you can just buy a Tivo system? Probably less cost in the long run, and a bigger HD...

      Well, for one thing, you get digital cable without the IR repeater that TiVo has to use. For my setup (digital cable + TiVo), the video signal goes through the digital decoder and then into TiVo. To change channels, the TiVo has little LEDs that you place over the remote sensor for the digital cable box. TiVo emulates the digital cable remote to change the channels, and is successful about 95% of the time. The rest of the time, TiVo almost changes the channel, and you get the wrong thing.

      There are ways to lessen the effect, such as building an IR cage around the IR repeater/IR receiver portion. There are other options, such as going satelite (TiVo's ReplayTV box is a satelite decoder as well, so it has no problem changing channels) or basic cable (TiVo works fine as a basic cable box). But, since digital cable decoding is non-standard, the only way is to get the cable provider to offer a PVR box.

      They probably won't go the TiVo route - TiVo would rather see a standard digital cable descrambler, usable in many cable systems, then one for each market. If a cable provider wants to make one for each market, TiVo will do it, but expect the cable provider to pay for the work needed to make the box. SonicBlue, who is behind the Time Warner box, is more willing to burnn their own money and work with the cable providers.

      The real solution is a single, HD-enable digital cable standard, so that any manufacturer can make a box that works on all the networks, including TiVo. I imagine the cable providers get a bit of revenue renting out the digital cable decoders, so I don't expect this any time soon. Also, I'll have to see the pricing details to determine whether Time Warner is serious about this as a mainstream product, or only selling it to the rich folks that might have gone the SonicBlue route anyway.

    2. Re:Why not Tivo by skimmer · · Score: 3, Informative

      You might want to check to see if your data cable is working and supported now. A nice surprise with version 3.0 was that I now have the serial cable going directly into my digital cable box -- no more ir mistakes! And it's faster too.

    3. Re:Why not Tivo by sckeener · · Score: 2

      Who says it isn't going to be?

      TIVO and AOL are working together.

      --
      "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    4. Re:Why not Tivo by Nakago4 · · Score: 0
      They probably won't go the TiVo route - TiVo would rather see a standard digital cable descrambler, usable in many cable systems, then one for each market.

      Wait a sec. I thought Tivo just sold licenses for their technology to other companies and didn't actually build any of the hardware they sold. Isn't that why Tivo boxes are made by Sony, RCA, etc. and not Tivo? So I would think they would love this kind of setup. Every company that makes cable boxes would have to pay thier license fee and they don't actually have to pay make the boxes themselves.

    5. Re:Why not Tivo by deander2 · · Score: 2


      TiVo's ReplayTV box is a satelite decoder ...

      ReplayTV is a different product/company from TiVo. (and at the risk of starting a flame war, a better one :-)

    6. Re:Why not Tivo by JWhitlock · · Score: 1
      Wait a sec. I thought Tivo just sold licenses for their technology to other companies and didn't actually build any of the hardware they sold. Isn't that why Tivo boxes are made by Sony, RCA, etc. and not Tivo? So I would think they would love this kind of setup. Every company that makes cable boxes would have to pay thier license fee and they don't actually have to pay make the boxes themselves.

      This is true. They sell the software to hardware manufacturers, but they make the bulk of their money on subscribtion fees for the programming guide. If Time Warner is already paying for a programming guide, then they have little motivation to lose that money stream by giving the guide business to TiVo. And, if they are making money renting cable boxes to customers, they have little motivation to offer a universal interface which allows customers to get their boxes from somewhere else.

      TiVo, as a business, will become successful if consumers prefer TiVo's solutions over other companies, so that companies are forced to license from TiVo to stay competative. TiVo will probably fail if every cable provider can come up with their own solution, and customers don't see enough of a difference to seek out TiVo's solution.

  13. Bell ExpressVu has been doing this for a year. by taveren · · Score: 1, Informative

    Bell ExpressVU satellite in Canada has had the 5100 model receiver out for about a year now I think. It has a build in PVR as well. Currently the only one available in Canada (the last I looked anyways). Everythings proprietary, so no hacking fun, but at least I get to have a digital recorder to playback TV at the same quality as live.

    --
    Place witty comment here.
  14. Take a guess on how long until this is mod chipped by iamwoodyjones · · Score: 0

    Alright, I hope they make the according adjustments on there end, so that I can sit back and watch the MOD chips come in allowing people to skip commercials.

    Might even be a few people with enough talent to turn the box into a TIVO for cheaper.

  15. Hmmm. by YanceyAI · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if this announcement will offset the news that they've become one of the latest corporations to come under review for shady accounting practices.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  16. Broadcast flag by lunenburg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And when AOL/TW buys the Broadcast Flag from Congress, you may still be able to use their set-top box to record one or two shows a year! Groovy! ;-)

  17. I know why they're doing it... by Kaz+Riprock · · Score: 3, Informative

    Imagine you just sat down to find your favorite program.
    Now imagine you power up your digi-TV-recorder from Time Warner.
    You slowly hit the "Guide" button to scan for your favorite program.
    All of the sudden, it's there, right in front of you, an AD brought to you by Time Warner!! Sitting right there, next to your channel choices! As you scroll through the list, you can't help but want to run out and buy a Big Mac....large fries.....super-size coke.... They aren't doing this to compete with satellite...they're doing it to integrate advertising into the overlay screens.

    --
    Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
    1. Re:I know why they're doing it... by Maeryk · · Score: 1

      Gee.. maybe THAT is why I have had so many dying urges to go to Sourceforge lately..maybe its coming from my DVR! :P

      Maeryk

      --
      Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    2. Re:I know why they're doing it... by foobar104 · · Score: 2

      Don't sound so shocked; this is already happening, at least in AT&T Broadband country. I recently moved into a new house, so I thought I'd give AT&T's digital cable a try. Boy, was that a mistake.

      The on-screen guide, which is supplied to AT&T by TV Guide, has ads on it. Hit the guide button, and there are two or three ads taking up half your screen. Hit the channel-up button and in addition to the channel number and program name, BAM, there's a square ad about 200 pixels on a side trying to sell me on RCA or some damn thing.

      I was pretty disgusted. I mean, I don't use any sort of channel guide except my TiVo's, but these on-screen ads are so obtrusive that they really got on my nerves. They lingered on the screen for about twenty seconds, far longer than ordinary on-screen guide displays have any right to. Drove me crazy.

      So I fired AT&T and signed up with DirecTV instead. No ads, and better PQ (picture quality) to boot.

  18. They've been promising this for while now... by Storm+Damage · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, in a limited fashion. TWC is rolling out iControl here in Central Florida. It's basically a Video-On-Demand service that allows for pause, rewind, and many other TiVo-like features, but apparently only for Pay-Per-View movies.

    I've also noticed an HBO On Demand channel appear in my lineup in the past two weeks, with a "Coming Soon" label on it. The on-screen display for this channel indicates it'll be a repository where HBO subscribers can watch HBO-specific programming On Demand. I'll be interested to see if there's an added premium for this, and how far back they carry the catalog (It would be nice to catch up with the Sopranos or watch the full run of From the Earth to the Moon without having to buy the DVD sets).

    At any rate, I had a tech come out to replace my burnt-out cable modem a few weeks ago (plenty of storms here on the Southeast Coast - hence my nickname), and he replaced my cable box with a new model by Scientific Atlanta. He said I'd need this when the iControl went live in the area. I haven't yet, but I guess when I get home I'll bust out the screwdriver and have a look-see what's inside the thing...

  19. I wonder by Unknown+Bovine+Group · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this will help TiVo and ReplyTV gain 'legitimacy'?"

    I wonder if it will help put them out of 'business'.

    --
    m00.
  20. who would tape it by DopeThrone · · Score: 1

    my question is , in tv today, and any other era of tv, i dont really see what is worth being taped, is there really anything worthwhile on tv nowadays that makes you a smarter, more intelectual, or promotes quality character traits? I dont know about you but the 3/4 of americans tuning in to watch "the real world" doesn't seem to be improving them in any way, but i'm sure that they would program their tv's to record it if they couldn't be home to watch it. Maybe its just me but i think that some technologies are only going to cause more kids to grow up and be worthless tv slobs. Go read a book, make new friends, try something you wouldn't normally try. Its sad that many people spend half their lives watching someone else's idea of how the world is portrayed, without ever actually interacting in it themselves. Those people are only gonna grow up to gawk about how hot that chick on tv was or if they watched the new Cribs episode. Personally i dont like carrying on conversations with people about tv personalities and their houses.

    --

    Righteousness postpones the inevitable
    http://burningaureole.caveism.net
    1. Re:who would tape it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many FUCKING times must some idiot bitch about TV in an article that's talking about fucking TV. Take your own advice bozo: If you don't like it, tune the fuck out and go read your goddamned books.

    2. Re:who would tape it by tiedyejeremy · · Score: 1

      you obviously watch the wrong channels.... Check out D-SCI (now Science) NGEO, or something with content - you're right about one thing - the masses like what I think is crap. Rise above the tendency to belittle and explore what else is available. Instead of pointing out the woes, find solutions to problems and suggest GOOD "programming."

      --
      Anything you say will be held against you. ... "tits"
    3. Re:who would tape it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go watch tv. sit and stare at primetime programming.

      You tell others what to do. how do you like it. opins are like assholes, everyone has one.

      try the History Chan, TLC, discovery.
      nice intro programs to a wide variety of topics i normally would be exposed to.

    4. Re:who would tape it by yotto · · Score: 1

      People constantly miss out on the fact that Television is /NOT/ primarily a device to change the world. It is primarily used to ENTERTAIN people. Entertainment is a very important part of life. I work 10 hours a day in the salt mines, just like everybody else, and when I get home from work I wouldn't mind watching an episode or two of Star Trek, or 24, or those Northern Exposure reruns they show on A&E every once in a while. But guess what? I get home around 6 or 7pm, and they're NOT ON. I have 2 choices, watch the Simpsons (again), or don't watch TV. Now, I could be all "Holier than thou" and not watch TV, but, assuming the show is entertaining, I see no problem whatsoever in watching it. Now, if I could guarantee that, every day, I'd be able to come home and watch a show that I consider to be entertaining, what's the problem with that?

    5. Re:who would tape it by DopeThrone · · Score: 1

      i like how cowards always cry the loudest

      --

      Righteousness postpones the inevitable
      http://burningaureole.caveism.net
    6. Re:who would tape it by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      Well... I've taped about 6000 shows sofar at http://www.acm.vt.edu/~clint/media/vcr.htm ... And I'm capturing new shows directly to AVI nowadays. I must have 12000 episodes.

      So.... You're wrong.

      tee-hee

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
  21. Let's think about this by xms194 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The nation's second-largest cable company said Wednesday it will offer the cable set-top boxes with digital video recorders by the end of summer in some markets.

    Call me paranoid, but if Time Warner begins taking over a significant portion of the PVR market, then wouldn't they have a means to implement whatever copy "protection" schemes they want? If they're manufacturing the hardware, they could very easily make it implement the whole "broadcast flag" idea, assuming they release a similar product for digital television. Just seems to me like this is an attempt to gain a foothold into a market so that they could further control content/copying later.

    1. Re:Let's think about this by mr.+methane · · Score: 1

      If they did introduce copy protection right now, it would cause a lot of complaints. By getting you used to the idea that you should use their tools to record TV, they set up the later assumtion of ".. and of course only *our* tools will work".

      It's just like the on-program ads that are starting to creep in. The only purpose of station logos was to get you used to the idea of having non-program content on the screen at all times.

  22. Just use a separate TiVO box... by Ryu2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bigger drive, no onerous potential DRM issues, can use it with any channel/cable system, not just locked into a single companys. And of course, runs Linux ;-).

    To me, the only advantage that these integrated boxes have is the ability to record digital MPEG-2 directly from the cable/satellite, without converting to and converting it back from analog and the loss. But guess what... the quality of the digital video stream is not all that great to begin with in most cases (the source signal is generally analog, passed through a real-time MPEG-2 encoder at the broadcasting facility, so it's not as good as say DVD) So quality loss is sort of negligle, IMO.

    --
    There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Just use a separate TiVO box... by SgtClueLs · · Score: 1

      Because a TiVo SA will cost you 299.99+ and a subscription cost of 250 lifetime or 10/month. (I myself own 3 TiVos, but DTiVos) You already have the box (I assume it's part of a package) and don't need to go ahead purchase new hardware/subscriptions.

      TiVo did sign a big contract with Time Warner AOL awhile back, wonder if it'll be running TiVo software.

    2. Re:Just use a separate TiVO box... by tswinzig · · Score: 2

      Bigger drive, no onerous potential DRM issues, can use it with any channel/cable system, not just locked into a single companys. And of course, runs Linux ;-).

      Read my message here for an opinion on why this could be way better than standalone TiVo (from someone who has both a standalone TiVo and TW digital cable):

      To me, the only advantage that these integrated boxes have is the ability to record digital MPEG-2 directly from the cable/satellite, without converting to and converting it back from analog and the loss. But guess what... the quality of the digital video stream is not all that great to begin with in most cases (the source signal is generally analog, passed through a real-time MPEG-2 encoder at the broadcasting facility, so it's not as good as say DVD) So quality loss is sort of negligle, IMO.

      So your reasoning is, because some digital channels are not in great shape, we might as well give up and have them encoded twice (once by the cable company, again by TiVo)? I say if the quality is already not great, you want to preserve that, at least!

      As for whether or not the digital quality is all that great to begin with -- it totally depends on the channel. The premier channels like HBO have GREAT looking digital channels.

      And, no, none of the digital channels are as good as DVD, but if you have TimeWarner's HDTV box, the HBO and Showtime HD channels regularly broadcast DVD-quality movies. In fact, most of the HD shows on TV, like Sopranos, CSI, NYPD Blue, etc are all filmed and then transferred to HD, which ends up giving a DVD-quality to the show (as opposed to the truly hi-def resolution you see with live 1020i HD broadcasts, and those saved to HD tape).

      I seriously hope TW will integrate HD recording into this box -- they could save that digital stream also. If TiVo ever does come out with an HD-capable box, it's going to have to take component (analog) inputs, and encode them digitally to save on the hard drive. Then decode them later to component output. YUCK!

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
    3. Re:Just use a separate TiVO box... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

      If TiVo ever does come out with an HD-capable box, it's going to have to take component (analog) inputs, and encode them digitally to save on the hard drive. Then decode them later to component output. YUCK!

      An HD TiVo could have DVI input and output, but that might get expensive quick.

    4. Re:Just use a separate TiVO box... by tswinzig · · Score: 2

      An HD TiVo could have DVI input and output, but that might get expensive quick.

      Firewire, maybe. DVI? Is anyone using DVI for HD I/O?

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
    5. Re:Just use a separate TiVO box... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

      DVI is the new standard for HD I/O.

  23. It's called iControl by malarkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    and is already working in NE Wisconsin. Check out their webpage.

  24. ReplyTV by entrager · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this will help TiVo and ReplyTV gain 'legitimacy'?"

    ReplyTV of course being the all-new super-special customer-oriented version of the new wave of pop-up ads for TV. These ads will not only let you know that the products you see during your favorite programming actually exist, but they will also let you interact with the ad. This new "feature" has been developed with the collaboration of major TV broadcasters and the makers of the X10 camera.

  25. I've got one of these boxes and it's no Tivo. by MaceSoul · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It doesn't record shows to hard drive. It just lets you pause and rewind. And they must be using some WMF format because the quality is worse than the worst setting on Tivo. It does not store video though.

  26. DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by darnellmc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It sounds great, but some key factors are missing!

    First of all, they will NEVER allow you to make digital copies. Tell them you want to burn copies to DVD or a PC hard-drive and see how warm a response you get....there will be none from them!

    They are allowing limited saving of shows. The limits are as big as the device's hard disk or maybe they will have other restrictions.

    This is not a major victory. AOL/TW is behind Tivo, so it's no shock that they will over some similar features to cable customers.

    This is OK, but don't get carried away with happiness. They still are not allowing people to make digital copies on removable media for personal use. Eventhough they save space and DVDs last longer than VCR tapes. Once DVD Burners become more common, they will probably ad some type of protection to prevent digital copies from being made to DVDs.

    1. Re:DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by Thorstein · · Score: 1

      Are you sure about this. Seems like quite a number of people here already have it. I can't record anything using it...damn...what am I going to do with all these episodes of the simpsons I taped....(using iControl) Thorstein Next time be a little more informed.

    2. Re:DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by darnellmc · · Score: 2

      I am informed, but maybe I need to make it clearer. My point is that they are not allowing copies to digital removable media.

      If you have been staying informed about the movie company's actions then you know they have no problem allowing something to be temporarily saved. Much like the old Divx DVDs from Circuit City. Just you don't have to go to a store. They don't mind you storing something for a few days to watch. What they do not want is anyone making perfect digital copies to removal storage. Something I could copy and take to my friend's house to watch later at a party. This type of Fair Use is something they do not wish to allow.

      This is all coming from the same industry that never wanted people to have VCRs. It is even mentioned in articles like this one: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-944668.html . The problem with the movie industry is that they will not allow perfect digital copies to removalable storage and they never wanted VCRs to be able to tape shows either. Now are you better informed?

    3. Re:DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by foobar104 · · Score: 2

      Okay, guy, take a deep breath and repeat after me: ``It is okay that I not be able to make digital copies of television broadcasts.'' I know that this isn't going to be a popular opinion on Slashdot, but I figured I burn a few karma points to advocate reasonable compromise.

      On the one hand, you have the Bad Old Days of VHS recorders that blinked 12:00 all the time. If you could remember to program your VCR and keep the tapes in order, you could make copies of your recordings to your heart's content.

      On the other hand, we have the current crop of digital video recorders that have no data I/O, only video in and out. Recording is a breeze, but you can't archive the things you record.

      Considered on balance, the status quo is by far the better of the two situations. Don't go pissing in the soup just because you don't care for the pot.

    4. Re:DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by RatFink100 · · Score: 2

      Why should you be allowed to make permanent copies on removable media? 99% of broadcast TV is copyrighted material. Your right to make a copy of this is for time-shifting purposes only - not to make a permanent copy.

    5. Re:DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!! by darnellmc · · Score: 2

      Well I said a digital copy. I never said anything about making it permanent. Because while I have the copy in my possession I want the best picture and sound quality available. Just maybe I want to record a TV Show to a DVD, so I can watch it later when I have time. Say during a flight via a DVD Player. Or maybe I just want to take it to a family member's place to watch with them. Why not have the best video and sound available in either case?

      Allowing digital copies to be made to removable media WOULD NOT hurt movie company's profits.

      We all know that they want to kill VCRs. So a natural progression would require allowing people to copy things to digital removable media.

      For me it's about quality and portability. I would like to be able to watch something I record elsewhere and have the most portable highest quality copy that can be made.

  27. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by deathinc · · Score: 1

    The entire VoD system that TW is building out requires the 'Digital Cable' service they sell.

    The way the VoD controls work (They call it iControl) is that when you hit your 'pause' key, the receiver sends that command back upstream to the VoD server which pauses it there. There is a small delay (200ms or less), but it works.

    The switchout of the cable box was probibly to facilitate the send/receive of the commands from your unit/remote.

    iControl has been available here in the Albany, NY market for some time now... If only the pricing wan't a ripoff.

  28. Really consumer's dream by jimberini · · Score: 1

    Privacy issues aside, why wouldn't you like targeted advertising? Instead of watching commercials for tampons, denture cream you will get the Dell adds and Cable Internet ads. We'll never get advertising-free TV, but at least it's advertising for products that you *may* actually buy!

    1. Re:Really consumer's dream by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      Because knowing advertisers, we would get about 15 to 20 "Dude you're getting a Dell" commercials every hour.

      And when you are totally fed up with that, wait for the ads to show up on your premimum channels. HBO, Showtime, etc...

    2. Re:Really consumer's dream by martyn+s · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well it puts people in a well defined box so you can't discover new things.

      I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer targeted advertisting, but I can see a time in the future when everything is so customized that people don't learn about new things outside their "demographic".

    3. Re:Really consumer's dream by phillyclaude · · Score: 1

      you pay for premium channels, to keep ads off them. nobody in their right mind will pay for a movie channel with commercials when there are other FREE ones that show movies (tnt, tbs, usa, etc)

      --
      A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head
    4. Re:Really consumer's dream by Smedrick · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I think I can go through life without learning about panty liners. :)

      --
      "I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
      - Strong Bad
    5. Re:Really consumer's dream by martyn+s · · Score: 1

      Well that's why I said I wouldn't particularly mind targeted advertising. I was just extrapolating, and I think in the future, when everything is so customized, that if you pick up a newspaper it will hide the stories from you that you supposedly don't want to see, then it gets more complicated.

      And that's exactly how advertisers want it. They like certainty. They want to know you perfectly and know exactly what you want, and I guess that is the way to do it.

    6. Re:Really consumer's dream by mweber · · Score: 1

      Sure they will, because nobody wants to watch a movie that's been edited when they can watch the uncut version. This is America; consumers will whine for five minutes, /. will bitch for an hour, and in the end everyone will plop down their monthly fees and keep helping the media companies grow. They put 10 minutes of commercials in front of movies that you have to leave home for and pay $8 to see.

      And if you don't like it, you're a terrorist.

    7. Re:Really consumer's dream by Rader · · Score: 2

      With only a little math, and a bit of datamining from the grocery store/general store database, they could target those pantyliner ads to only show once a month for your girlfriend.

  29. content "zapping"? by joeldg · · Score: 1

    The article says they will not have a commercial zapping feature but even the use of digital recording seems a major turn-around from what the entertainment industry has been saying so far.
    So that is so nice of them to *not* "zap" my stuff.. Wow.. what new things can we expect? Maybe, they will allow us to "Pay" for stuff too.. Sheesh..

  30. I will be at training session in a few days on it. by TibbonZero · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am a TW cable employee (don't throw anything I am just an intern), and will be attending a session (4 hours for some reason) on this really soon.
    I will say that they do know what the pricing is, and it will be rolled out in Greensboro, NC soon.
    In addition, in case anyone cares. The whole system runs off a full rack of about 10 Sun servers... I can find out more info on those if anyone wants...

    --
    Tibbon
    tibbon.com
  31. That's only part of the story by epicstruggle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Take from tivo.com:

    "America Online (AOL), Advance/Newhouse, CBS, Comcast Corporation, Cox Communications, DIRECTV, Discovery Communications, Encore Media Group, Liberty Media subsidiaries, Liberty Digital, NBC, Philips Electronics, Showtime Networks, SONY, TV Guide Interactive and The Walt Disney Company -- leading companies from every facet of both the television and communications industries have embraced TiVo's concept of personal television and made equity investments in the company."

    --
    "Im drowning here, and you're describing the water!"
  32. What BS... by Cygnus+v1 · · Score: 1

    Last week, Jamie Kellner, chairman of Turner Broadcasting System, also owned by AOL Time Warner, said television viewers could face paying for channels they now receive at no cost if PVRs kill commercials.

    Give me a break. The only advertising methods where reliable effectiveness measurements can be made are where the customer physically calls the vendor at an advertised number (or surfs to an advertised URL) within a given timeframe after an ad has been shown. Anything else is guesswork.

    If TV execs and advertisers are going to use PVR penetration as their effectiveness metric, their view will definitely be flawed.

    Perhaps if more ads were closed captioned, the ad auto-skip logic wouldn't automatically skip so many ads. Ads don't have to be integrated into the programming to defeat automation.

    --
    ---- Politics: Kissing ass and pointing blames.
  33. iControl by cjpez · · Score: 2
    ... is what they're calling it. They've got absolutely atrocious advertising for the thing. I swear, every fifth billboard around here is some damn "ICONTROL" advertisement. They're all very sneaky and don't say anything about Time Warner, it's just these big black and orange monstrosities like "iControl . . . It's gonna change your life!" (seriously) and other such garbage. (To be fair, there IS one of them that actually says Time Warner Now. It was bad enough when I thought it was some new company, but now I know that it's coming from a corporation I already hate!) It's just all this "whoo, life without our PRODUCT is unimaginable!" "Hey, your life is HOLLOW and MEANINGLESS without our PRODUCT!" "If you don't own our PRODUCT you are a WORTHLESS EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING." And they're all over the place. After the third or fourth billboard I saw, I decided I would never buy whatever the hell it was. Yeah, something that's basically a VCR. That's gonna change my life all right. I'll tell you what would change my life: throwing away my damn TV.

    Sorry, that's been building up in me for some time now. :)

    1. Re:iControl by realdpk · · Score: 2

      TiVo changed my TV-watching life. I don't surf and stuff any more either, I wasted a ton of time on that. Sure, I'm weak for needing a device to get me to stop :) but what can I say, it worked.

      Of course, heh, you'll see a lot of people telling you your life is hollow and meaningless just because you own a TV at all. These are the book-reading elitists. Feel free to slap them around. :)

    2. Re:iControl by Zed2K · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong. iControl is not a digital recorder. iControl is just pay-per-view-on-demand with control options. The cable box that they get from Scientific Atlanta is the 8000 series http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/prod_su b_PVR.htm

      Check it out, it is not iControl at all. We've had that here for about a year now. We've had HBO on demand for a few months now also.

    3. Re:iControl by cjpez · · Score: 2
      Of course, heh, you'll see a lot of people telling you your life is hollow and meaningless just because you own a TV at all.
      I've got a number of friends who don't own TVs, and I always feel like a jerk after I've visited them. They never do the whole "more righteous than thou" thing with it, but these are also the kind of people who, in the course of an ordinary day, will, like, personally save three thousand children from starvation and then convince the U.S. to forgive the debt of some impoverished African country. and then cure cancer, and then when they get home, spend the rest of the night making up songs with a bunch of friends and their guitar. So you just feel like, "wow, so today I, uh, cleaned up my hard drive a bit." :P
    4. Re:iControl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are called filthy hippies and they don't do anything to benefit the US national economy. Fuck them. They are leeches on our society.

    5. Re:iControl by cjpez · · Score: 2
      Oh, whoops. Misinformation on Slashdot, who'd've guessed? :) Although, to be fair, what's the difference between a digital recorder and something that'll allow you to paus, fast-forward, and rewind programs, and also start them up whenever you want? Although, now that I look at it, it doesn't say that iControl lets you start programs whenever you want . . . Hm.

      Man, that makes me even more upset about those damn billboards, though. At least this TIVO-like thing was legitimately cool. iControl just sucks. Grrrrr. That's the kind of thing that makes you want to go all Fight Club on billboards. Although I probably shouldn't say that. I might get reported to TIPS or something.

    6. Re:iControl by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

      iControl does let you start movies whenever you want, but it only works for movies, while the PVR works for all shows.

  34. I'm suprised this is news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AT&T broadband has been mass mailing promotions encouraging customers to use a Tivo with theier service.

  35. TW is already partially testing here by purplebear · · Score: 1, Informative

    In Memphis. I have a couple friends that either work for TW or have a relative that does. They are testing this, to a degree. Except what they are testing does not require replacing their existing digital cable box.
    Appearently the choices are stored at TW's facility. They are also testing HBO on demand. One of them said they could select say the current season of Sex in the City and they get a listing of all current episodes for this season.
    The PVR like functionality is what intrigues me with them not having any kind of onsite hard drive in the box. When they press pause, it pauses instantly just like my Tivo.

  36. ReplyTV? by Rayonic · · Score: 2

    > I wonder if this will help TiVo and ReplyTV gain 'legitimacy'?

    This idea of a ReplyTV intrigues me. Would it allow me to let those moronic sitcom writers know how I feel about that horrible cliche they just used? Or perhaps I could bitchslap that vapid anchorman the next time he screws up a technology story?

    Heck, an invention like this might get me watching TV again!

    1. Re:ReplyTV? by Enry · · Score: 2

      Well, you'd certainly be able to give 3 thumbs down to Fox's "When Bachelorretes in Alaska attack Cops II". That information gets sent back to Tivo (at least, probably Replay too).

      Strange thing is, the networks/stations are missing out on an incredible opportunity here, and one that should get Neilsen scared. Tivo makes no bones about the fact that they know what you watch and record. And that's great! Why? Because Tivo finds out that many of the shows I watch are not on broadcast TV (aside from Simpsons and Futurama), but on cable channels. Finally, a more accurate measurement of what shows we're watching. What would be thought of in ABC when they find out I'm more apt to watch "Good Eats" on FoodTV than "Drew Carey"? "Junkyard Wars" instead of "Crap we made up because we know you'll watch it - what else will you watch?". Wow.

  37. What buid-it-yourself options exist? by dowobeha · · Score: 1

    I'm sure this has been covered before, but what is the current state-of-the-art in building your own DVR box?

    Specifically, if I want to go out and build myself a (pref. Linux-based) computer for DVR, what hardware/sofware solutions are out there that work now?

    Record to hard drive, burn-to-VCD, burn-to-DivX;), burn-to-DVD, etc...

    --
    I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
  38. Um...nope. Was Re:ReplyTV by IvyMike · · Score: 2

    I can't help but feel I'm being trolled, but what the heck. ReplayTV is a DVR box pretty much just like Tivo; check out ReplayTV's web site for more info.

  39. Bad Moderator... by NetJunkie · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, S-vid doesn't do HD. When I say antenna I mean HD over the air, not normal crappy antenna signal. Most people get HD content via antenna, but Time Warner carries it in some markets via digital cable. It's much easier than dealing with the antenna and I don't need to buy the $500 receiver box to sit between the TV and antenna.

  40. A possible motive by drdink · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It seems to me that a possible motive for AOL/TW to be doing this is to be boosting the message they gave earlier this week:

    PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - Television viewers could face paying for channels they now receive free if digital video recorders kill commercials, said Jamie Kellner, chairman of Turner Broadcasting System.
    I would imagine that they are pushing for digital recording without ads, and are going to use this new deployment as evidence that it can and should be done without ad skipping. I imagine they'll try to undercut the price of ReplayTV and TiVo as well, in order to steal the business and eliminate the commercial skipping abilities.
    --
    Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
    1. Re:A possible motive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is such a BS way for them to put it. "paying for channels they now receive for free." Um, I don't get any cable channels for free. I've got basic cable at about $40 a month. That ain't free. If you're going to threaten to increase my rates, don't talk to me like I'm not already paying for it.

      Which brings me to an interesting question. Isn't the whole point of advertising to make tv pay for itself? I.e., the advertisers cover the costs of tv and the consumer gets free tv with only the hassle of having to watch commercials. You know, like it used to be in the old days? Hey, if you could get me cable tv with commercials for free, I have no problem buying a PVR which doesn't allow me to skip commercials.

  41. Duh... WasRe:Um...nope. Was Re:ReplyTV by IvyMike · · Score: 2

    Alright, I see...you were making fun of the misspelling of "Replay" as "Reply". Never mind.

  42. First Step: Take over the world by Mahrin+Skel · · Score: 1
    They want to get this out there in their controlled, proprietary form, before Replay/TiVo/Ultimate TV (ie; boxes the customer *owns*) gain market acceptance. If it's the set-top box that they provide, they can forbid you to monkey with it (and have a felony criminal charge that's already on the books and well-established to back it up with).

    Since cable TV is a monopoly, you don't have the option of an alternate provider with less restrictive hardware. So, no commercial skips, no sharing TV across the internet, no recording PPV or premium content.

    My guess is they'll make it pretty cheap (about as much as a TiVo subscription, and nothing up-front) in order to kill the retail PVR market. If there are no consumer-owned PVR's, there's no permissive PVR use problem.

    --Dave

  43. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by CarrionBird · · Score: 1
    Put down the driver, buddy. Unless things have changed recently, cables boxes are booby-trapped to disable themsleves if opened without a special tool. Most certainly it will be obvious that the box has been tapmered with, ensuring a friendly "adjustment" to your bill.

    All this is to circumvent people from, "enchacing" thier channel lineups.

    Don't mess with the stuff you have to give back to the cable co. (Now ,a hot unit is another matter entierly, not that I'm advocating obtaing stolen merchadise. *cough*)
    --
    Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
  44. very tempting by dannyrap · · Score: 1

    Despite being a happy tivo owner, I'm still tempted. I like the thought of being able to record the mpeg stream directly to get the best possible image quality. And it can do one thing the tivo can't - record Dolby Digital sound.

    Some features I'd like to see:
    - ability to extract the mpeg streams
    - record to dvd+rw

    Danny

  45. Re:I will be at training session in a few days on by unformed · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can find out more info on those if anyone wants...

    The following would be truly appreciated:
    1. What operating system does it run?
    2. What kind of a HD and partition does it use? (Standard or propietary)
    3. What other "special" devices are in it?
    4. What specifically is propietary and what is standard parts?
    5. What DRM management software is in it?
    6. Is it automagically updatable?
    7. What user usage data does it record?

    and any other pertinent info too would be useful, I'm sure.

    Actually, if you could just sneak out the information details, and scan them in, or get a monkey to type in, and submit a story to \., that would be truly appreciated.

    Of course, I am in no way, shape, or form, encouraging a company IP theft. [Enter further appropriate disclaimer here.]

  46. Wonder what is next..... by Hacker'sEdict · · Score: 1

    Seeing how everything is going into the internet stage I wonder what will be next? Hey maybe I will be able to check my email on the toaster, cool!

  47. what ploy? by whovian · · Score: 1

    Since they might be giving more of what viewers want, the cynic in me tells me that they probably have some hidden motives. Maybe it is a way to increase income in view of weird accouting practices or to sell hidden hooks to viewers (a la Microsoft) for implementing restrictions (read: control) in the future.

    --
    To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
  48. TW Digital? Bleh. by ocbwilg · · Score: 2

    I've got TW Digital cable in Columbus Ohio, and they've just recently started pitching their iControl system to us. Apparently it is a system that will allow us to pause and resume our PPV programming without missing anything. This is kinda nice in that I often use PPV instead of hitting blockbuster and sometimes have to leave the room during the movie for a minute.

    As far as the digital recorder function goes, it sounds neat but I imagine that we will be charged extra for the privilege. In my case, I still have a VCR if there's something that I really want too see that badly, and I don't have any problems recording off of any of the digital TV channels. At any rate, I wouldn't be too concerned about there being a lack of a "Commercial Zapper" button in their digital recording service, so long as you can still manually hold down the Fast Fordward button like you can with an old-school VCR.

    Now regarding the digital TV channels, I am not impressed with the quality. I have a relatively new TV that has excellent sharpness and clarity, but the picture when watching the digital channels doesn't look any better than the analog channels do on it. What's worse, I can often catch pixellation in action shots (usually sports), especially with (drum roll please) straight lines that run at a diagonal on the screen. I see this all the time when watching CART races on Speedvision (one of the digital channels) but I never see it when watching CART races on CBS (one of the analog channels).

    More importantly, why am I paying for digial cable but only receiving the allegedly "sharper, clearer" digital signal on half of my channels? I know that it sounds odd, but all of the channels that were previously available on my analog cable package work as they had previously. All of the channels that only became available with digital service all have a 2-3 second delay before they are displayed while changing channels (it has to switch data streams with the mothership, I assume). This is annoying. If it weren't for Speedvision (I need my CART and F1 fix) I wouldn't even have bothered with digital service, nor would I recommend it for someone who doesn't need it for a specific channel like I did as TW's implementation is less than impressive.

  49. Kill Your Television by sulli · · Score: 1
    I'll tell you what would change my life: throwing away my damn TV.

    You can't do it, can you? (Hey, neither can I: I probably watch 2x the television now that I have a tivo.)

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
    1. Re:Kill Your Television by cjpez · · Score: 2
      I don't know . . . I think I probably could if I actually wanted to. Literally the only TV programs I watch now are Simpsons and PBS occasionally, and I don't have problems with either. What I *do* enjoy having a TV for is watching movies, and to me that's really not "watching TV" per se, because there's more action involved on your part, ie: you have to actually go to the video store, actually go back home (unless, of course, you already own the movie), then actually decide to put the thing in your VCR, &c. Plus watching movies is something typically done with groups of people (at least for me it is) than just "watching TV." But I do think I could live w/out a TV. (Of course, I'd just end up watching movies and simpsons episodes on my computer, but that's beside the point.)

      Wow, that sounds like I'm rationalizing quite a bit, doesn't it? :)

    2. Re:Kill Your Television by Thorstein · · Score: 1

      I second that motion..er notion. Thorstein

  50. uh......It's called iControl... by Thorstein · · Score: 2, Informative

    It comes with Digital Cable.... Been around for a few months. http://www.twcny.com/services/iControl/index.cfm?T hankYou=One "iCONTROL puts the power of Video on Demand in your Digital Cable box. No late night visits to the video store...no late fees...no tapes to return...no stress. Order the movie you want...ANYTIME! ALWAYS IN Movies are always available. Start a movie when you want. Pause, Fast Forward & Rewind the movie with your Digital Cable remote control... without using the VCR. Choose from a digital library featuring a wide selection of new releases and movie favorites. All from the convenience of your own home. Coming Summer 2002. Watch our web site and the mail for official launch dates. You need to have Digital Cable to get Video on Demand with iCONTROL " Thorstein

    1. Re:uh......It's called iControl... by Zed2K · · Score: 1

      No, that is not it. iControl is just pay-per-view-on-demand. Its pretty cool actually. We've had it here for about a year now.

      You don't get to record with iControl. And a digital recorder would keep the programs on a HD at your house. iControl streams the movie from the time warner servers to your cable box.

    2. Re:uh......It's called iControl... by jelle · · Score: 2

      They charge extra for things you want to watch on iControl. Plus it only carries a hundred or so movies in my region.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  51. Re:I will be at training session in a few days on by Patik · · Score: 1

    I know the head buyer for my area's TW HQ, and a couple weeks ago he mentioned this, adding that the models they've narrowed it down to will mean about $5 a month to subscribers. Not too shabby at all, though I'd expect them to charge more like $10 because a lot of people would probably pay it.

  52. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Storm, is it the SA 8000 box? iControl has been advertised in Rochester, NY-- how much does it cost in Albany and Florida?

  53. New idea. by Restil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Probably not a NEW idea. The media companies are worried about losing revenue due to fewer people watching commercials. Tell me something, why do people skip through the commercials? Its very simple. THEY DON'T WANT TO WATCH THEM. Yet for some reason, there's a large demographic of people that watch the Superbowl ONLY for the commercials.

    What it all rolls down to is this, people watch TV to be entertained. With exception of the Superbowl, commercial breaks are lulls in the entertainment experience. They're a necessary evil, and people are willing to tolerate them as long as they have to, but the second they have an option to skip through them, they don't hesitate.

    The secret here, ladies and gentlemen, is to create commercials that are WORTH WATCHING. If your commercial is so entertaining that someone is willing to watch it rather than skip through it, then the entire "PVR commercial theft" issue gets thrown right out the window. If people looked forward to commercials, they would probably also be more interested in the products being advertised.

    Seems that this idea might work for other industries as well. Take the music industry for instance. Produce less crap, and more people might buy the music, less money will be wasted on the so called 90% of the content that loses money, and everyone will be happy.

    Or maybe I'm just out of my tree.

    -Restil

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
    1. Re:New idea. by Rader · · Score: 2
      That is why I watch TV at night.
      I can't get enough of those "call me at 1-900" babes. And since I'm going bald, I like to see my choices in hair loss reduction.

    2. Re:New idea. by sahala · · Score: 2
      With exception of the Superbowl, commercial breaks are lulls in the entertainment experience.

      Maybe a good number of people think that the football plays are lulls in the primary entertainment experience of cool ads.

    3. Re:New idea. by beme · · Score: 1

      Not much of a secret, I think. They have a hard enough time coming up with sitcoms that survive for more than the first few episodes, I doubt they'd do any better making entertaining commercials. Heck, they're probably not out there saying "Hmm, should we go for funny and engaging, irritating, or just dull? I think this one should be irritating" when they're storyboarding these ads.
      If it were so easy to make commercials entertaining I'm sure they'd be doing it. TV commercials are all about manipulating the viewer. Entertainment makes a wonderful delivery agent for that manipulation. It's just not that easy to come up with a good 30 second spot.
      You're right, though. Entertaining commercials would 'mootify' (:)) the PVR ad skipping bruhaha.

      --

      -beme
      1971
    4. Re:New idea. by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 2

      A more likely comprimise is adding more appearant commercials INSIDE of the shows.

      Like in the move "the truman show".

      "Holy Pepsi Batman, Joker has stolen Gotham's Snickers supply and is headed towords the abandoned Nike factory! To the BMWatmobile!"

    5. Re:New idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not so much a question of entertainment as it is of interuption.

      You could stick the most enteraining commericals between my recorded shows on my replay tv.
      I'm still going to skip them, because, while I can multitask, I don't want to.

      It's the same concept of reading a book, and pausing every other page to listen to someone tell a joke. Even if it is entertaining, in the context of what you're focusing on it will be an irritation.

  54. How magnanimous by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    Of AOLTW to "allow" their customers to do what the Supreme Court (Betamax case) has ruled they have every RIGHT to do...

    Do we now have to go BEG megacorps for our Constitutional rights?

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  55. Best of Both Worlds for T/W by 4/3PI*R^3 · · Score: 1
    The decision seems at odds with the position of executives in other parts of the AOL Time Warner empire who have expressed alarm at the impact that personal video recorders will have on broadcast networks that rely on advertising for revenue.

    This is not at odds with what T/W has expressed. From the article, it seems T/W will charge a fee for the service plus you will have to watch commercials.

    Digital recording through their box will give them instant feedback on your viewing habits and allow them to sell directed avertising.

    So lets recap. You pay T/W for cable TV, you pay T/W for the privilege to digitally record, advertisers pay T/W for data on your personal viewing habits. You still get the same old crappy TV shows and you still have to sit through commercials (you may even be getting targeted commercials).

    Gee Alex, I'll take "fucked but not even kissed" for $500.

  56. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by DonalGraeme · · Score: 1
    I've got both iControl and HBO On Demand here in Austin. I haven't used TiVo or anything like that, but I do think the set top boxes TW Austin is using need a bit more to go before they're not so frustrating.

    Very frequently the browser won't start up when I change to the HBO On Demand or iControl channel, which requires me to reboot the set-top box. No, that's not just turning the cable box on and off, that's getting off my seat and pulling the plug out of the back of the box, waiting for a bit, plugging it back in, and waiting for it to reboot.

    Secondly, if you pause a movie or a show, and leave it paused for longer than 20 seconds, it assumes you want to stop the show and save where you are. It takes me longer than 20 seconds to go to my fridge, get a refill of popsicles (my one vice ), and get back to my favourite couch.

    Thirdly, there are times when you try and restart a movie you've stopped and saved, and it doesn't resume where you left off. Instead, it starts from the beginning of the movie. Given that a pause while you go and take a piss will often put you in this situation, you're talking about ... ANNOYING!

    Now, I will say, I do like my iControl and HBO On Demand. I just don't know whether their set-top boxes (or the software they have running on them) are going to be as friendly as the ones currently existing.

  57. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by sysadmn · · Score: 2
    Storm, is it the SA 8000 box? iControl has been advertised in Rochester, NY-- how much does it cost in Albany and Florida?
    Here in Cincinnati, they're using the older Explorer 2000 and offering iControl and HBO On Demand. After you buy the Digital Tier, HBO On Command was about $10/month. Of course that might have been a special price for the first few months. TW is notorious for that: Big Letters say one low price, fine print says "reverts to regular pricing after three months". I believe the iControl movies run $4-7 before taxes.
    --
    Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
  58. Retromercials by bucklesl · · Score: 1

    On the rare occassion that I'm watching TV, the only commercials I look forward to are TV Land's Retromercials. I mean, let's face it, some of these commercials could be used for the current product they are trying to sell, like waffle syrup. How is Mrs. Butterworth's gonna get better?

    I agree that most commercials are terrible. The only memorable commericals that stick in my mind are those Snicker's commercials where the football guy thinks he's Batman. Oh, and ALL the SNL commercials...they rule. Where can I buy a box of Quarry? "Better tasting 'cause it's mined."

    --
    help fill in hidden movie endings @ End of the Credits
  59. As a TiVo owner and TW digital/HD customer... by tswinzig · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... I'll tell you why:

    Scientific Atlanta, the company that will be making these PVR's for TW, also makes some of TW's digital cable boxes, including the version I have which decodes the HDTV signals broadcast over their cable network.

    I own a TiVo and love it!

    However, the thing I am dying for is an integrated TimeWarner digital cable box with TiVo like abilities. Support for HDTV would definitely be a plus, but just having complete integration between my TW digital box and my PVR would be heaven, and the Scientific Atlanta box could make this a reality!

    - The digital channels would not ever need to be decoded to analog until it's sent to my TV -- leading to better quality recordings. Right now, anything off a digital channel is being decoded, sent to TiVo in analog format S-Video, then re-encoded in MPEG format by TiVo, and later decoded for my TV.

    - I would not need two digital boxes (one for TiVo, one to watch live TV).

    - The current TimeWarner digital TV navigation blows away TiVo's live TV navigation system. I'd love to be able to use it again with my PVR!

    - They could include two decoders, like in the DirecTiVo box, so that I can record two programs at once... after all, most channels are already encoded digitally, the hard work is done.

    - They could integrate HDTV! (A killer app, AFAIAC.)

    Since AOL owns a percentage of TiVo, I won't be surprised if Scientific Atlanta licenses TiVo technology for the box (one can hope!).

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  60. Why stop there.... by Orne · · Score: 2

    Paint me a cynic, but....

    What would be the ultimate prize in digital recording? Hint, its already being used in major league baseball, certain New Years broadcasts, and other televised events. Give up? I'm talking about Dynamic Advertising!

    Let me put on my Content Distributor Cap... I can already charge advertising dollars for commercial space in the original broadcast... but what if I can REPLACE the advertising space on a recording with NEW advertising based on when the recording was watched?

    I can charge prime-time advertising costs to those companies who want their adverts in the "live" version, then I can charge a second rate for the "replay" version... or even tailor the commercials to trigger on time of day. Watching that horror movie at 10PM? Why not throw in a few ice cream commercials...

    There are possibilities for people to make a lot of money out there...

    1. Re:Why stop there.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The box will get some special programming, a couple of gigs of the harddisk are set aside for background-downloaded targeted ads, and ends the whining of broadcasters and viewers.

      Finally. If the box then also 'knows me', it will stop shoing me annoying commercials from local car dealers (just bought new), or this childrens feaver medicine that's on now, or skin moisturizers, or , instead it will show me accesories for my new car. And it will tell me what geeky stuff is just out and on sale (because it knows what I'm interested in).

      You know, the stuff that right now I'm going to pricegrabber.com, pricewatch.com, ebay.com etc. for.

      But then again, doubleclick.net could have done that years ago on the web and they haven't either... At least, I haven't seen better targeted ads (CoughX10Cough).

  61. Its coming! by burnsy · · Score: 1
    This is all PR so TW cable subs don't continue to flee to satellite.

    Cable's answers to satellite...

    High Def - 'Sure, its coming soon'
    100% Digital - 'Sure, its coming soon'
    Dobly Digital - 'Sure, its coming soon'
    The cable channel you really want to watch - 'Sure, its coming soon'
    NFL Sunday Ticket - 'Sure, its coming soon'
    PVR - 'Sure its coming soon'

  62. I can already record my TV signal digitally. by Quarters · · Score: 2

    It's called DirecTV with a DirecTivo unit.
    I can even fast foward through the commercials.

    What's the big announcement here again?

  63. Try this link for Explorer 8000 by tswinzig · · Score: 2

    The link you gave requires a login. Try this instead:

    http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/prod_su b_PVR.htm

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  64. Re:I will be at training session in a few days on by brybigs · · Score: 1

    It's another form of Video on Demand. You aren't going to get a hard drive at home. The items you tape will be stored on TW's servers, and you'll be able to call them back. It's the death of TIVO/SonicBlue/Replay when it catches on. I know other cable guys are looking at it. They say since most consumers have trouble setting up a VCR, the only way to get time shifting to mass adoption is to take the tech out of the home and make it esy to use. Of course, making sure you don't share/store/skip things aini't bad either. And targeted ads will be completely real.

  65. Capitolism works -- Just check their stock price. by JonTurner · · Score: 1

    When the investors lose faith, that should be a message to the Chief Officers that they're not making the right decisions.[AOLTW stock slid from $60/share (Sep) to its current level of ~$12/share.]

    They haven't been making good decisions, and the stock price represents that. AOLTW got too big, too bloated, and too undefined in its corporate mission to be competitive.

  66. The free bad option by nick_davison · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Back in the 80s an 90s, Microsoft destroyed the OS competition by pretty much giving away their OS. It may not have been so good but it came with your PC and seemed to be free, so most people stuck with it. Then in the 90s they did the same with web browsers.

    Now we have TW's PVR. It's not actually as useful as Tivo or ReplayTV but it comes with your cable service, it'll no doubt be marketted as a nice and cheap add on, so most people'll go with it rather than Tivo or ReplayTV. It also won't actually allow commercial skipping, or file sharing, or anything else Time Warner didn't like before hand.

    So, what we're really seeing is them using their market position to force the suppliers of a product that they don't like out of the market. What are the odds that TW's real plan is that, in another five years, TiVo and ReplayTV will have all but pulled out of the market and the Time Warner PVR will force you to keep watching those ads. Even better, as you have to watch your TV through it, they'll be able to stop you channel surfing too.

    Forgive me if I don't see this as an amazing U-turn from Time Warner, nor the beginning of their acceptance of PVRs (as we currently know them).

  67. Re:I will be at training session in a few days on by Kaz+Riprock · · Score: 1

    6. Is it automagically updatable? 6b. Do you have to pay a premium for the gnomes to perform the automagical update? :)

    --
    Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
  68. PVR = pay twice by CarrionBird · · Score: 1

    If it's anything like Dish's PVR system, you pay out the arse for the PVR-equipped reciever, then you must pay every month for them to turn the feature on. If you don't subscribe to the feature, you don't record or watch what you've already recorded.

    --
    Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
    1. Re:PVR = pay twice by shanek · · Score: 2

      Please mod the parent (-1, Bollocks). I have a Dish 501 and there is NO EXTRA CHARGE WHATSOEVER for the PVR service. The same is true of their newly-released 721 with two receivers and a larger hard drive. My receiver was only about $50 or so more than a non-PVR receiver, and there is no extra charge for the PVR service. I even had my service cut off one time and still could watch everything I had previously recorded.

    2. Re:PVR = pay twice by CarrionBird · · Score: 1

      Please mod parent -1 troll. I have a Dishplayer (500 i think). With an annual agreement, I was getting a monthly charge for the PVR and webtv (that I didn't use). I had the monthly charge taken off, and now I can only get the 15 minute "free preview" of PVR on what was already recorded.

      --
      Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
  69. Reply TV? by EHUDs_Rhino · · Score: 1

    "I wonder if this will help TiVo and ReplyTV gain 'legitimacy'?"

    ReplyTV? Does this mean I can send the networks their shitty sitcoms back to them?

    --
    "I think you guys with quotes in your signatures should go have an original thought." -- Dan Miller
  70. In other news... by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    DSS receiver boxes have been sold with TiVo and UltimateTV hardware for quite some time now.

    Once again the cable television industry is doing too little, too late to keep from losing yet more customers to digital satellite...

  71. Re:I will be at training session in a few days on by aFamiliarFace · · Score: 1

    Sorry, no proprietary details, but the box specs are publicly available from Scientific-Atlanta

  72. Re:They've been promising this for while now... by jelle · · Score: 2

    I've tried iControl twice on the free 'preview' programming, but each time the digital cable box crashed (brzaa) just after I selectted 'confirm order'.

    I wouldn't want to get ripped off by that happening when I'm ordering something that results in a charge on the bill, so I'm not using it. It's too expensive anyway.

    --
    --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  73. VOD != PVR by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

    I have Time Warner, iControl, and HBO On Demand in Austin, TX. The software is really slow and a bit flaky. (When I stop a movie and then resume it, many times it resumes playing from the beginning of the movie, not from where I stopped it.)

    But I'm guessing this has nothing to do with the PVR that TW is planning to roll out.

  74. in response to your sig.. by Archfeld · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    have they in fact instituted a per person comment cap ?

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    1. Re:in response to your sig.. by FortKnox · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If you post at auto -1, you can only post 2 times a day.

      Only 10 AC posts are allowed per IP.

      Restrictions = lack of voice/lack of arguing your opinion = Censorship.

      --
      Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    2. Re:in response to your sig.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gotta love how a response to a direct question is marked off topic...thanks for the answer

  75. Time Warner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The service is called iControl. They are about to premire the service here in Central New York.

  76. Sky+ by plumby · · Score: 2

    This isn't new. Sky in the UK has been offering this feature for at least 6 months with something called Sky+.

  77. NOTHING new about THAT!! (was:Re:I know why...) by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

    Nothing new about that!

    I have an ANALOG tv with ANALOG cable.

    Most ANALOG cable sends Guide+ info. My TV is capable of receiving that info. I automatically have a schedule inside the memory of my TV that contains all programming info.

    It even has space for an ad, which gets downloaded. I was damn freaked out to see a commercial there. But it is kind of cool that my analog TV is capable of downloading images.

    So... pressing Guide and seeing an AOL/Time Warner ad is not a new idea. It's already being done.

    Not that this has much to do with the original topic, but I thought it merited mention.

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
  78. I work at CNN... by Tempest261 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm working on the CNN Digital Archive project and I believe that this digital recording technology is being developed to support this project, but I also heard that they are definately planning to lease out as much of this technology to make up for the enormous R&D and equipment costs that I'm seeing dumped into this project.

  79. Old news (AOLTV again) by dickDragon · · Score: 1

    This story is at leat 2 years old. The box will be a custom Tivo called AOLTV. See the (old) story here.

  80. plastic is passe by dickDragon · · Score: 1

    A 1000 hour TiVo is 1000 time more convenient than
    a DVD player or a PC.

    What kind of couch potato wants to get up and
    search through a stack of little plastic disks?

    Pick a show from the now playing list then sit back and veg.

    "What's green on your Tivo?"