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Drive a Greasecar - DIY Biodiesel
TinyTim writes "Sure, you could buy expensive biodiesel for you car - or you can hack your diesel to run on filtered vegetable oil. Kits take a few hours to install and cost about $800, but you can get your fuel free from restaurant deep-fryers (the filters are ~$10/2000mi). Supposedly no loss of performance or mileage, and you can change between diesel and veggie oil with the flick of a switch. A previous article mentioned the theoretical possibility, but it looks like kits are now available from greasecar.com."
Would I have to cook my food in diesel?
RoseColor red={0, 0xffff, 0x0000, 0x0000};VioletColour blue={0, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0xffff};find / -name *mybase*|chown you
Once many people start using this, you wont be able to get the fuel for free. It is free now, because grease is considered waste. Once it has a value, restaurants will charge for it. Besides, this is a short term solution to a long term problem.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
So, you want fries with that?
And if you thought you were leaking oil before, now you have to identify if it's veggie oil, or if it's motor oil.
I suppose you could try tasting it..you might get to know your fuel by taste! Bob's Burger Stand and his unmistakable motor fuel..er, deep fat frier grease!
I can see it now: You drive into your local Drive-Thru and order a burger, fries, shake and 5 gallons of their day-old fryer grease!
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
My grase stockpile will finnaly pay off! WOOHOO! IT'S YELLOW GOLD!
I had a diesel car :\
One must make the inevitable Simpsons "Lard of the Dance" reference.
I finally eliminate all french fries from my diet, but if I get a cool mod for my car, I'll still smell like I work at McDonalds.</sarcasm>
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I remember reading that running on vegetable oil smells more or less like french fries. Anyone who has worked fast food can imagine the smell of burned grease-trap fuel. *wretch*
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Exactly how much used vegetable oil do we have lying around to convert into biodiesel? If there's so much waste veggie oil, there must be some other industry that takes it and uses it for another manufacturing process. It's a great idea, but I don't see this displacing the oil industry anytime soon.
So, as a bonus, does your exhaust smell like a KFC?
And, if so, wouldn't you crave biscuits all the time?
The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
You will have to fight Groundskeep Willy.
He plans to retire on that grease.
Just ask Homer about it!
(I'm thinking of the deep fryers used to cook the french fries.)
And imagine the revenue Krispy Kreme donuts stores could get out of this! "Coffee, donut and fillup for only $2.99!"
Two thoughts instantly came to mind when reading this: 1) Whoa, cool! 2) IT'S ABOUT FSCKING TIME!
Don't get too excited about this if you, like me, already have a gasoline-based car. This will only work if your car is already diesel-based.
Bah, I knew I should have bought a German car!
- In Capitalist America, law violates YOU!
I can't run my truck off vegetable oil. I'd be too tempted to cook chicken in it as I drive. Then again, I'm already tempted to drink the diesel for the ethanol, so it's really a toss-up.
How expensive is vegetable oil were you to go to the supermarket and pick up a vat? If I remember correctly, it's pretty expensive by the gallon (as compared to gas). Now, how much would it cost were the farming industry to shift and grow vegetables whose sole purpose is for oil?
I am told that it is a federal offense to use anything but commercially produced fuel in a vehicle. The oil industry was successful in its lobying attempts to get this into federal law. So, I suppose you could get into trouble for using home made biodiesel in your car. Perhaps just for using veggie oil, too. Can anyone confirm this?
Seems like truck drivers would jump at this. $10/2000 miles is probably a LOT less than whet they're spending on fuel now. Given the fact that most truck drivers I know are decent mechanics as well, I can see them doing something like this quite easily.
This is cool. Maybe filtered frying grease could replace motor oil, too. I've heard that synthetic oils are vegetable based.
That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
I used to work in a cafeteria, no chore was more dreaed then dumping the grease bucket. Few smells int he world will turn your stomach more than a grease bin that's been fermenting out in the summer sun for a few months.
Wow, if they have this kind of technology now, the garbage-powered DeLorean from Back to the Future II can't be all that far away.
Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads.
--
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
I distinctly remember watching a show on Discovery Channel (I believe it was Invention) from several years ago about a guy in the US who drives to various fast food outlets to get used vegetable oil for his car. He said the only problem was that his car always smells like french fries. Here are a couple links to related stories that are more recent. July 2001 and October 2001
Planetes
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitl
Bart: When you want grease, go to the source. Good old Krusty Burger.
Homer: Oh, I'll say. Look at that red-headed kid. There must be twenty dollars worth of grease on his forehead alone.
Bart: I was thinking more of the deep-fryer.
Homer: All right, we'll try it your way.
J
Most restaurants with friers, dump the old oil into a large bin out back. Every few months a tanker truck comes and picks up the oil. Then they make crayons and other shit out of it. Point is, restaurants get money for their old oil. Why would they give it away?
Ay! That's Willy's retirement grease!
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
The site and the explanation is here: BioBus
The car starts on diesel and after several miles Mr. Noe-Hays flips a switch and changes to his other fuel source. At the end of the day he switches back to diesel to clean the engine of grease.
Now, I wonder if it's just at the beginning of the day, or if he has to be on diesel every time he turns the key. If the latter, and you're mostly driving around town, then you'll never get the chance to use the oil part of it. (Not to detract from its usefulness on long journeys, of course.)
I had a quick look at the greasecar site, but couldn't find the answer to this question. Anyone know the deal?
Could I have Olive Oil with a nice Balsamic Vinegarette?
Don't forget the mimes!
If you start diverting the path the used grease currently takes, you could wind up with a whole lot of unhappy mimes!
What a tragedy that would be!
Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
There are still harmful emissions, and there's not enough fuel available to take a significant chunk out of the current fuel usage. Sorry, this isn't a solution. The only current solution is to reduce the amount of fuel you use, by taking a bus or other mass transit, for instance.
"There are still emissions from my car, there are still environmental costs of driving,"
It would be interesting to know exactly what these emissions consist of. I have no idea what might be in deep fryer grease and I have even less of an idea what it might produce when burned.
a3c6 0e89 b1ec aa4d d630 26c8 d07e 7eed 8148 5503 02b4 dfaa 9922 b28d 0820 c4af
"you can get your fuel free from restaurant deep-fryers"
I don't think that is going to work too well in Northern Wisconsin in the winter.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Berkeley, CA runs recycling trucks on this stuff.
There is a place in SF where you can buy it for your car. $3 or something a gallon (bit pricey, even for our ridiculous $1.75 87).
-Sean
- Subnet banning, this bans a user unless they email jamie macarthy with their mp5ed ipids. This is unfair, and banning a subnet BLOCKS A WHOLE ISP SOMETIMES, and not that individual user! This can cause chaos!
Yeah, that's another thing that is really annoying.I hate it when I've just typed up a well-crafted, informative post which probably involved a few minutes of research on google, etc. and I go to post just to get the "You have been banned
At least if your ISP has been banned from posting they should put a notification at the top of each page to save you the trouble of writing comments.
It's annoying things like these that make it really frustrating for those of us who just want to use Slashdot, not abuse it!
One thing I wonder -- what is the total emissions picture for operating this vehicle based on fryer food? One problem with the most common renewable energy source for gasoline engines -- ethanol -- is that you use almost as much energy in the conversion process that you gain from making the ethanol. How is vegetable oil made? Once use surpasses the amount reclaimed from food service, would it make economic sense to make vegetable oil just for vehicular use?
Motor oil is specially formulated not to change viscosity too much or burn at the high temps inside engines. Fry oil burns slowly @ 350 and leaves behind a nasty residue. It would burn off and gunk up the engine in no time becuase there is no where for the vapor to escape. Plus motor oil is relatively cheap.
Make sure that is a diesel car you fill up at those stations, of course.
-Sean
About ten years ago there was a show on the Albuquerque community access channel about some people driving a diesel-powered Ford van cross-country on used restaurant cooking oil.
Vegetable oil requires farmland, so I hope it won't be economically feasable. If it is we can just kess what little is left of the rain forests good bye as third world nations look to profit on the new cash crop.
I just went to a couple of online grocers, and a 32oz bottle of Wesson vegetable oil goes for around $2.85. That's $5.70 a gallon. It'll be a while before pump prices get that high.
So unless you steal it from fast-food joints (because their current waste disposal guys make a profit reselling it, and they won't like you taking their grease) or you grow and process it yourself (and who has that kind of time?), I don't think you're going to see any real savings by doing this.
I live near Hampshire College and there are several of these cars driving around with the www.greasecar.com printed on the body. Volkswagens... Rabbits and a Bus I have seen. Our local rag did a srory on these pioneers. I am thinking about buying my neighbor's diesel Rabbit for $250.00 just so I can try the kit out.
pronoblem
Would someone using such a kit on a car be elligible for the AFV tax break despite it being aftermarket? Hybrids, such as the new Civic, Prius, and Insight all are, so clearly some petroleum use is allowed.
There is a man in my town who modded his diesel VW to run on peanut oil. You can gas up at the supermarket instead of waiting out back of a restaurant. In the local paper he admitted that he is no genious, farmers did it to their tractors all the time back when diesel engines were first out.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
Making Vegetable oil isn't very difficult. You can buy high quality presses. Or even make your own. I mentioned this in a previous article, but From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank has instructions on not only how to make your fuel, but how to build a cheap oil press with a diesel engine of course :). This book also has really helpful tables on which plants will produce the most oil.
I just went 601.4 miles on my last tank, which used 13.3 gallons. That's around 45 miles per gallon.
The car is awesome. Same mileage as a silly little econobox such as a Metro, but with the power of an ordinary car. In fact it's probably got MORE torque than an ordinary car. I can pass gasoline cars easily in 5th gear on a hill, and I can let out the clutch from a stop without even touching the throttle!
And yes, I guess I can run it on grease!
I scoff at all you gasoline slaves.
Carl
Vote Libertarian
"Hi, I'd like the Number 2: 2 Cheeseburger Deal."
[khhh] Ok, what sides would you like with that?
"Uh, a medium Coke and 15 gallons of cooking oil."
[khhh] Would you like to SuperSize your order, large Coke and 20 gallons of filtered oil for 39 cents more?
"No thanks"
[khhh] All right, your total will be $4.23. Please drive around
Sure running on grease is a good idea if you great at begging and enjoy having leftover juices running through your engine, but make sure you stop by the local taco bell for a fill up when you have a date in the car.
It's a little OT, but I saw this article over at popular science the other day.
For those who don't want to read the article, it describes VW's latest test/concept car. Two person, 600 lbs car. It has a tank for 1.7 gallons and gets better than 260 MPG(though only rated for 235. ONLY.). And no, it's not slow. They rated the top speed as over 70 MPH. Which is plenty fast, even for highway travel.
Ontopic: it runs on diesel fuel. Who wants to mod this car and make it even more environmentally friendly? "It barely even burns Vegetable Oil!"
I don't, however, know what's involved in applying the mod. Or if VW could even fit it in this car. But it would still be cool. I actually want one of these cars. Errr... this car. That would be sweet. *sigh* Time to go buy a lottery ticket.
because you really could end up charged with grease theft if you just pull up and fill your car up out of their oil dumpster.
there was an article about such a thing at Salon, but it no longer available i guess, though you can read it with google cache...
Grease Rustlers
Companies like Griffin have contracts with restaurants to come around regularly and pick up their grease. From Griffin's point of view, the grease is theirs the minute it enters the container.
So i'd definitely think it would be wise to at least ask the restaraunt you wanna fill up at before doing so.
Sorry but I just felt that it had to be said...
GREASED LIGHTENING anyone?
this is so old ... i saw this last year on techtv's 'tomarrows world'
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
there's a lot more to biodiesel than meets the eye. for instance, biodiesel can be made not only from soybeans and waste veggie oil, but from algae oils as well, with thousands of times the yield.
check out http://www.biodieselnow.com for more info.
My car is greasy enough already, if you catch my drift.
The vegetable oil has to be heated up to a certain temperature before it can be injected into the engine. something about viscosity or whatever. So you need to start the engine to power the heater for the veggie tank before you can start to run the engine off it. veggievan.com has lots of good info.
The most critical part of the diesel is the fuel pump and injectors. They run at 3000-5000 psi with very low volume per stroke, so leakage cannot be tolerated. The fuel has to be filtered extremely well (sub micron). My worry with biodiesel is that it might plug filters due to microbial growth [always a problem in diesel], or the vegatable oil hydrolyze into organic acid plus glycerol. The organic acids will cause corrosion of the injector pump plungers and injector tips. Not good at all. The fuel will also have different rubber swell characteristics, so you may get fuel leaks. I'd try this first on a imetal-to-metal Mercedes with simple to replace rubber rather than a Peugeot or VW with a fuel-lubricated pump and that main O ring soaking in fuel.
I expect vegatable oil could be made to work with additives: a biostat, acid neutralizer plus seal swell control. But it would have to remain a separate product becauase petroleum oil and vegatable oils aren't miscible. If you wanted a blend, you'd need an emulsifier, and the results might be too viscous.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What you get is a renewable resource that may not be better for the environment, but is better for geopolitical reasons. That's not so bad in my book.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Can it be made any more efficiently than corn-based ethanol? Hempseed or other oil-bearing plants?
I'll sell you My VOLVO 242 DIESEL with vw straight 6. It as A/C, 4 speed with overdrive(Not every stable. it kicks out of overdrive every now and then). Oh, the engine is really worren in so it smokes like hell and doesn't go up hill very well(low torque, leaky head gasket I think). You will discover the joys of enter the freeway at about 45 mph. You can get 65 if downhill onramp is used. P.S. The A/C needs work, it leaks too.
I'll sell you My VOLVO 242 DIESEL with vw straight 6. It as A/C, 4 speed with overdrive(Not every stable. it kicks out of overdrive every now and then). Oh, the engine is really worren in so it smokes like hell and doesn't go up hill very well(low torque, leaky head gasket I think). You will discover the joys of enter the freeway at about 45 mph. You can get 65 if downhill onramp is used. P.S. The A/C needs work it leaks.
Is anybody worried about the saturated fat that comes along with the vegetable oil..? Think of all the money you have to spend on by-pass surgeries on your engine ....
- Get the IPs off of all the troll postings.
- Track down the people who did abuse the system and sell the contact info so people can let Johnny's parents/spouse/offspring/place of employment know what he's been posting lately.
- PROFIT! And beatings and divorces and life-long trauma and firings....
Ahhh, perchance to dream.I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
Sounds like something Ron Jeremy would drive.
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Popular Mechanics Hemp Article
Most restaurants have contracts with people that they already sell the grease to, which they recycle into actual usable stuff. This entire vehicle premise is false. A bus that ran on old oil came through our city a few months ago (full of weed smoking morons, I might add) and they were pissed nobody would "give" them free fuel... they wanted money for it! I think in the end they had to fill it up with reg'lar diesel and drive away in shame.
Q: "Do you want fries with that?"
For the average school district, seems to me. God knows the cafeteria must throw off enough waste "fuel" to supply the school fleet, with plenty left over.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
SVO (Strait Vegtable Oil) as Fuel will ruin most newer diesels. I'm not going to get into the technicals here but Direct Injection diesels or prone to injector coaking when ran on strait veggie oil. This can lead to melting holes in your piston when the fuel doesn't come out of the injector atomized.
With that said, I have an old VW pickup that I have driven for 20,000+ miles on strait SVO. Works great.
Don't waste your money on a kit, Most parts can be had at your local hardware store. Tough part is setting up a good filtering system for the waste oil.
Now if they can make these vegetable oil cars more fuel efficiant (right now they are equally as efficiant as diesel), the higher cost can be justified and such a shift could very well save the US agriculture indusrty.
If you don't have anything nice to say, shut up you stupid prick.
new technology is developed that could lessen USA's dependance on foreign oil, except it only works with cars primarily used in Europe.
Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it
I've heard of these: apparently the stench is terrible.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Although in my experience working with split-valve transduction engines, if you emulsify the oils with an anhydroxious nuetralizer, remembering to lubricate the pump plungers and injection tips, you can stoke the condensor nodules to the point where the flow-to-lag mixture is below variance. If the peak-flow levels haven't fully corroded, you can then safely crank the hydrolized compound way past what you could before, up to 88 miles per hour, the point of flux capacitance.
But that's the old technology.
You can run down to the local Costco and get 5 gallons jugs of vegetable oil for about $10, so imagine the cost in "real" bulk.
Tim
Yes, that's right. Left over grease is purchased for the eventual use in soap. And restaurants gets paid for their leftovers, so I wonder how this guy is getting free oil? Is he stealing the oil?
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
-1?
Pull your head out moderators.
THose are two of the only car companies that have diesel engines on the American Market.
I don't feel my comment to be offtopic or flamebait.
My signature however is.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
WTF does Dubya have to do with this? I just love how liberals try to blame *everything* on Bush...
Riding along in my veggiemobile
Runs on grease I have to steal
For 2 gallons it gets 600 miles
saving the environment and the wild
crusin' and playin' the radio
smelling like burgers and fries ya'know
Riding along in my veggiemobile
so anxious to share the way I feel
Beggin for grease so softly and sincere
til the grease companies found me and boxed my ears
Chased by 2 brutes who let me know
they ran the grease and shovel raquet with a guy named Moe
Now's there's no particular place to go
So I hid behind Krusty Burger avoiding my foe
The grease was fresh like texan gold
but they found me and took me for a stroll
Can you image the way I felt
When I got smacked around with a safety belt
Riding along in my Gasguzler all loose
Killing our planet but avoiding the noose
Even now I hold a grudge
When money's to be made corporations don't budge
They've made sure this innovation went the way of netradio
Can't wait to see what they do when they make cars run on H2O.
- Yo Grark
==50% of all taglines either are, or are not==
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
I remember reading about this in Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea by Gary Kinder. Summary Here
Great book, and a good account of a tinkering nerd when he was a kid, before he became an industry leader and innovator.
The smell your car would give off as exhaust would probably boost McDonalds sales through the roof!
"as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz. (One man's humorous is another mans flamebait)
Having worked with the development of high-pressure direct-injection diesel engines at both Volkswagen and Volvo, I am quite critical towards any replacement fuel that has not been widely and thoroughly tested.
To begin with, some links for self study:
- Dieselnet.com has a great glossary and provides some excellent links
- Delphi has some nice PDF's on Unit Injectors and Common Rail
- Here some information from Bosch - Siemens has some nice pictures of injection systems, mainly common rail
Due to the very high pressures (up to 2100 bars) and therefore high temperatures with modern fuel injection systems, you really go to the limit of what diesel fuel can do: You use it simultaneously as fuel, coolant and oil and it takes a good blend to fulfill all these requirements! The chemical formula is important as well as the physical properties. The DOE has a webpage about diesel fuels. Have a look at their online diesel fuel property database and see which properties are essential for characterizing fuel. Other important factors are
- durability
- particles/filtration
- compressability/resistance against cavitation
Not to forget resistance of all sealings etc against the fuel. Think RME and you know why almost everybody in the industry (e.g. SCANIA) only approves blends with max 5% alternative fuels...
Don't get me wrong, but if those fuels are ruining the car, we really can't talk about environmental advantages then, now can we? On the other hand, serious life cycle analysis like this one and field studies will hopefully help to develop cleaner cars. If those are then driven by gas engines, diesel engines or fuel cells... who knows?
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
Imagine a hybrid biodiesel/electric car like the Honda Civic Hybrid 100 miles/galon or a biodiesel power plant, it could run straight for more than 12 hours on a single tank of fuel.
Jesus fucking goddamn motherfucking christ. What the fuck is your problem? Perhaps if you spend less time bitching about the moderators and more time working on the content of your posts then you wouldn't get moded down.
Asswhipe.
Caveat: Although I have friends who run diesels on various fuels, I myself do not. So I'm a friend of experts, not an expert myself.
Rudolf Diesel designed his engine to run on vegetable oil. That's how it was originally supposed to work, and it was originally demonstrated at the World's Fair running peanut oil.
Modern diesel engines are slightly modified to optimally burn the refinery waste products we call "diesel fuel". But only slightly...
If you want to efficiently burn vegetable oil in an unmodified modern diesel, you should use biodiesel (easily home-made, see Tickell's site for details).
If you want to run straight veggie oil, you need to preheat the oil (no problem when the engine is running, plenty of heat easily available, but you will need a preheater or a small tank of "starter fuel" at startup time). You also need to make sure that your filters are very efficient, and that you have bacteria/fungi controls, and that you have a water trap. These are the same considerations with regular "diesel fuel", but since the latter is nasty hostile petrowaste and the former is edible bio-friendly fryer grease you will have to be much more careful and vigilant.
Most people running straight vegetable oil are uber-geeks. They like to tinker and they aren't afraid of breaking things, because they know they will be able to get something to work if they need to. If you don't feel like that is a description of you, try biodiesel instead, and you won't have to make any modifications to your vehicle at all. You can even mix biodiesel and petrodiesel with no problem.
Stop using those goddamn sarcasm tags! When most of us read these posts, we're picturing the Comic Book Guy typing them as it is... so sarcasm is implied. They need to go, along with the douches who put ;o) at the end of their painfully obvious jokes just to let us all know they're kidding, thus removing any trace of humor.
"Biodiesel" usually refers to methyl or ethyl esters of fatty acids; it's made by reacting methanol or ethanol with vegetable oil with sodium hydroxide. You can make this yourself for about 30 or 40 cents a gallon if you have a source of free vegetable oil. Biodiesel can be used as a direct replacement for diesel in any diesel engines. Plain vegetable oil will burn in a diesel engine (they really aren't that picky about what fuel you put into them), but it generally must be heated to around 160 degrees fahrenheit first. Plain vegetable oil is too viscous for the stock injectors on diesel engines. So to use it, these kits heat the veggie oil with coolant from the engine, which means that you have to warm the car up on regular diesel first, then switch to the veggie oil tank, and also you have to switch back to diesel for a few minutes before you shut the motor off, to clear the fuel lines. This probably is not a good idea for use in cold climates (even real biodiesel gels at temps below 40 Fahrenheit). Anoter alternative is to mix the veggie oil with about 20-30% kerosene. There is also evidence that vegetable oil can damage fuel pumps, and both vegetable oil and biodiesel can cause problems with rubber seals in the fuel system.
I recall Brazil developed an all ethanol product that was very successful, and not the 10% ethanol crap we use here in the US.
In Brazil, they grew sugarbeets, and then would crush them into a slush. They fermented this, and used the dried sugarbeet pulp as fuel for the distillation process. This resulted in a about 97% pure ethanol. Clean enough to run in your car with no ping. It was cost effective enough to compete with gas when gas was 'expensive' but I seem to recall todays prices are low enough to keep all ethanol fuel still a bit high.
When we look at ethanol in the US, it's a big farce. The 10% ethanol added to gasoline must be 100% pure in order to eliminate pinging. You can't get 100% pure ethanol by distillation alone, so you have to go through an expensive chemical drying process, and you end up with a ludicrous price on the end product.
Muhauhauahauhahauahauaha..... finally... a use for fat people.
and yet...
There is no "Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these!" post.
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
.... when you can drive a hemp-powered car?
www.hempcar.org
heyitsme
...burning peanut oil. Back in the early 1900's Rudolf Diesel designed an engine that would burn peanut oil.
Now we're just re-realising that diesel engine's can burn many types of oil, as long as the oil is hot enough to combust and viscous enough to squeeze into a piston chamger.
A friend of mine burns a mixture of fossil-diesel and straight waste vegetable oil in his truck.
He has another truck which he bought a conversion kit for (these have been around for a while, check out http://www.biofuels.ca/) and burns straight waste vegetable oil.
We (brother and friend of mine) burn bio-diesel in our VW Golf.
As I mentioned in another comment to the last article on bio-diesel, if you're in the Calgary area and are interested learning about or using bio-diesel, check out http://www.boiledfrog.org/
Cheers,
Matt
In 10 seconds flat I was thinking about the car "Greased Lightning" from "Grease"
Black holes are where God divided by zero
I am a heavy duty mechanic (diesel mechanic) and have worked at diesel fuel injection shop. You will cause premature wear on your whole fuel system (possibly destroying it) if you use cooking oil. The fuel you by at your local stations have additives (such as sulfer) that act as lubricants to prevent wear to your injectors and injection pump, COOKING OIL DOES NOT. There is major research going on now to develop methods of increasing the lubricating qualities of canola oil fuel for compression combustion engines (diesel) http://www.engr.usask.ca/dept/mee/faculty/hertz.ht ml .
The quote in the article talks about tearing down an engine but yet doesn't talk about the wear on the most important part, the fuel system. As a rough estimate, replacing the fuel system on an older VW rabbit will cost about $1500- 2000 CND and last time I checked the price of injectors for a ford powerstroke engine were between $400-800 each (8 needed). After installing your kit you wouldn't have a warranty and it's very easy to tell bad fuel failures so don't think you could just remove it and no one will know.
The day will come when diesel will be replaceable with canola oil or another fuel, but until then those of you that drive diesels can already enjoy the fact that diesel engines produce less emissions than gasoline.
"Lunchlady Doris, have you got any grease?"
"Yes, yes we do..."
"Well then grease me up woman!"
"Okie dokie."
Favourite Simpsons quote, ever.
This signature intentionally has just seven words.
It's a joke. It's just a joke. I was kidding
(can't we all just get along?)
[as "they" are dumpster diving]
"What is this place?"
"Liposuction clinic! Richest, creamiest, fat of the land!"
If you really want to promote alternatives then demand earlier introduction of low sulfur fuel. Some more info here and yes, the pretroleum industry is whining about cost increase, while even the car industry is demanding this fuel...
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
Be very careful fueling your cars from the local school's fryers. You might not know if that fluid is spoken for.
-Donut
The mexicans could develop their own bio-fuel industry by harvesting the grease from their hair and faces. We all know how greasy your average mexican looks. I believe this could be a major step for the mexicans, it could even eclipse their top exports of cocaine and subhumans to America.
Are you a reptilian?
The SVO approach is interesting but not very practical.
The processing of oil into biodiesel actually adds little to the cost: Biodiesel from waste oil is pretty cheap and the difference in price compares well to the $800 dollars you spend on adding the SVO contraption to your car.
Also, the SVO device makes the car a bit heavier, and energy must be expended to keep the oil hot. This method adds complexity and fuss to each car/driver.
Biodoesel is simple: you pump it in and start it up. With BioD, the fuss is centralized at the processing facility and handled in a decent economy of scale.
New processing tech. with a solid catalyst will make BioD even cheaper.
One thing is true for both fuel types: Your vehicle becomes Solar-Powered!
Who's the fool now?
This changes the meaning of the word, Grease Monkey, that is for sure.
Recent scientific study has shown that all potato products prepared in oil have carcinogen(s) in them.
:)
Use this piece of info on your neighours and offer to help them get rid of the nasty stuff for free
P.S. It's true.
Hi,
;-)
available in Munich / Germany since 1999.
With computer controled switch, oil heating....
And 3+ Years more experience
http://www.biocar.de/
Andi
"Goddammit Gump, you're a goddamn genius. That's the most outstanding answer I've ever heard. You must have a goddamn IQ of 160! You're goddamn gifted, Private Gump."
--Forrest Gump
...the only reason that american farmers can grow so much is they are 100% totally dependent on fossil fuels, both for diesel to run equipment, and for the natural gas that is turned into fertilizer, and for the shipping and processing facilities. There is NO WAY that biodiesel can be self supporting, it's a net energy loss, btu's for btu's. Never think about energy as "money", think first btu's in to get btu's out. Energy is just swapped around, it's not really created, although pumping hydrocarbon rich stuff out of the ground is pretty decent. However 2, most large fields have peaked now. It used to be a couple of barrels energy in to get a lot of barrels out, some places it's down to almost parity, and once it hits parity and drops it's a net energy loss on any practical scale. Saudi arabia and a few more fields are IT energy wise that will last for some decades. North sea oil production has peaked, mexico and venezuela are actually pretty close. Domestic US is peaked long ago. North slope anwr oil is a drop in the bucket needs, there's really not that mcuh there and takes a huge amount of infrastructure to get to it and use it. You need to build facilities that are rugged enough from the distances involved and climate for 50 years (or so, that's a WAG, some big number) to get two years worth of oil-maybe. Caspian basin area reserves are pretty good, but again, doubtful of the practicalities of it from distance and politics-pipelines are just too vulnerable, they can't really be protected. Check colombia currently right now for how easy it is to keep a pipeline going in the middle of perpetual war. It ain't, and the middle east is not turning into peace loving pacifists anytime soon, if ever.
And I'm not a luddite or against alternative energy, just the facts. We run on solar pv panels here for instance, but I've run the numbers and seen them on various websites, it just ain't happening-the biodiesel- without fossil fuel, so you might as well eliminate the middle man and just burn the fossil fuel diirectly in what you want to power. And again, most places already SELL their waste grease, those supplies that are "free" are drying up fast. Food is food is food, it won't be cool to use food for fuel for very long. And if you don't fertilise, you'll run out any "grow" potential in the soil within a few years and get about zilch per acre. and natural gas is going to be tapped out within 3 years or so with all the proposed new electric generation facilities going up in north america, ie, it ain't gonna be cheap as it is now, not even close.
What biodiesel is the most practical for is directly for use on the farm itself, in an emergency situation when no other fuel is available, which it might come to that someday.
The best alternative tech I have heard of that might be viable is this algae they have that can be forced to give off hydrogen gas. It has a tremendous amount per surface acre of water, and is easier to pull off. Second best is using this particular bacteria to use with wood cellulose to make methanol. Third best is anaerobic digestion using any waste biomass for methane production. The latter is by far the easiest to do on any scale from single family to mass production. It's also in widespread use already, all over the world.
Fourth best is to establish "breeder"-esque heaters to use in oil extraction from oil shale and tarsands. Using currently underused soft coal in very high temp furnaces, sufficient energy and heat can be obtained to extract the oil, HOWEVER, the process uses tremendous amounts of fresh water, and generates tremendous amounts of contaminated water, so is not likely to get beyond the stages currently being done in canada. they have water to spare and don't seem to give a squat about polluting some of it-for now anyway. Where it's available in the US, there ain't enough water to pull it off, it's "desert".
Short of some revolutionary breakthrough in zero force tech, the human race is screwed bad energy wise starting around 2010- 2015 time frame. I expect a tremendous amount of wars involving ownership of the oilfields well before then. And because national leaders are ALL insane megalomaniacs, there's a distinct possibility of someone really screwing the pooch and contaminating the oil fields with a lot of U-235, and 8.
It COULD happen.
Me, sticking to solar and wood, good old trees, and living very, very rural. City people are gonna suffer, no or expensive food, ratioined water, rationed fuel, rationed electric, etc.
I listened and paid attention to my grandparents and older aunts and uncles who went through the depression as adults. Back then there was no energy crisis, and 40% of the people still lived where they had a garden and well watewr they could pump by hand. All they had then was your normal wall street mega bank scam swindles to deal with, and it was pretty bad.
It sure ain't that way now. The potential for going from really relaxing luxurious western lifestyle to OMIGAWD WHAT HAPPENED? is immense. And it could happen quite quickly.
The best deal is to accept math as math, do the research, and move to where you can insure your own food and water and energy on-site, produce all or most of that "stuff" yourself, OR.....live in denial until it's too late and be prepared for some serious difficulties.
This is only my opinion, but it's based on current estimates of both recoverable oil, available fresh water, population pressures, and global economics, and most importantly, current "news" and politics.
The bulk of the second and third world is YOUNG. They are increasing in numbers like--well, rabbits on viagra. The bulk of the western world and japan are OLD. No place on the planet earth now do people not want to become middle class and have their own cars and homes with central heating and air condo, etc. China in particular is a Billion and a half people fully prepared to enter first world status within 20 years. They are currently embarked on a massive crash course to enter the 21st century and become a global military power, and they AIN'T lazy or stupid. Neither. and they also have to keep throwing technology bones to thweir population who ALL want to be somewhat middle class, and soon, too. That's a lot of political pressure on the chinese leadership. They want that oil, they positiviely need the oil or they collapse, and I don't see the dictators there giving up real easy.
Run the numbers on oil, where it is, who's making money now, who's building actual nuts and bolts manufacturing infrastructure, and who's accumulating debt and tearing down manufacturing infrastructure. Come to your own conclusions, I know I have, I can smell what's coming and it ain't purty.
good luck and better skill
Diesel does not have ethanol in it. Some people have done research on putting ethonal in diesel, but the results have not been near a promising (both price and performance) as straight diesel or biodiesel. Are you sure your not thinking of blended gasoline that has 10% ethanol, or maybe E-85, that is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline?
If someone calls your car a grease-bucket, all you'll be able to do is smile.....
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
From the webpage:
The biggest reduction is in CO2 which is not eliminated from the exhaust emissions but the oil plant absorbs as much CO2 in its growing cylce as the oil puts out when it is burned. This creates a balance
Ummmm, excuse me, but where did all the CO2 from burned gasoline originate? In the dinosaurs and the plants that died and became oil. hmmmm....sounds like a balance to me
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
But has anyone considered using this technology to take their home off the grid (if not actually attempt to run a small power plant)? There are some power plants that run off of refuse incinerators, but if a diesel turbine can be modified to run off of biodiesel, then you could kill two birds with one stone...
Has anyone considered the possibility of building a fuel cell along those lines as well? One that you could, say, start with a small fireplace in order to heat the vegetable oil/grease to a vapor state sufficient to combust?
While vehicles aren't the most efficient energy consumers, most homes are considerably worse...
And then there's possibilities for developing nations, to both do away with a large amount of pollution, where even small villages could have electricity with waste products as the fuel (some do this already with methane producing cesspits)... Just retrofitting old diesel generator rigs with a system like this could move a lot of areas into at least the 20th century...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
perhaps if you had the balls to login....well nevermind.
It need not use potable or irrigation water. It likes to be farmed in desert wasteland. It grows like mad. It is %50 oil. The math adds up to it being able to supply our needs. Combine that with diesel/electric 300mpg hybrid cars and the problem doesn't look so daunting. This is solar energy.
f ro m_algae_es.pdf
Do a search for "Biodiesel from algae" = tons of stuff out there.
http://www.ott.doe.gov/biofuels/pdfs/biodiesel_
All the do nothing pessimism in may of the replies to this topic are nothing but shallow cop outs. People not wanting to take the effort to change. Stuck in the stale vision of now because its easy. Easy right to the deadly end.
I for one picked up a cheap old car and am BD/greasecaring it together.
And to all the "it won't be free forever"s out there. I demand So WHAT? You pay for fuel now and you probably always will. The point is not that its free the point is that it is a step toward a greater use of renewable energy sources. Better for the planet and better for you.
--
I am gonna change the subject a little but it is based on the same concept as using old cooking oil for gas. I know of a shop owner that heats his building with a heater that burns used car,truck,cooking oils. There is never any smoke that exits the stack outside the building, even when started up, and it doesnt stink. All it has is a filter that gets changed every month and they just empty their work truck oil into a bucket and pour it into the heater. From what he said they had it tested and the filter catches all the harmfull things that would get into the air. Maybe they could apply this to using cooking oils and other oils for fuel in cars?
Just an idea?
Hey guys,
I have heard a bit about these guys. This deal is REALLY great for universities. Many university already have a fleet of desiel trucks.... this includes tractors for snow, pick-ups, etc..... and they pay a few thousand a year to get their grease disposed of.
Imagine if most of the large universities decided to save that few thousand to pay for these mods, and convert all their desiels!
They could save a nice chunk of money every year on their desiel fuel!
Anyone who's in a position to talk to the physical plant at their univeristy should bring this technology to their attention.
So, down to the point. I'm a student and I already find it hard to swallow the $1.45 per gallon for normal gasoline. I'd be spending twice as much for the oil - and for what? My car already gets 32 mpg. And, it doesn't smell like french fries afterward!
It's a good idea because it could be the beginning of a trend into other alternative fuel sources, but unless it gets 100 mpg it's not worth my time (or money).
Maybe if someone found a way to convert old 486's into a useable fuel... Or maybe politicians! Or how about those free AOL CDs that you get in the mail every other week! The possibilities are endless ;-)
Disclaimer: This comment was generated by a Flock of Trained Microsoft Programmers for Aqua_Geek.
Or just a fat, 30something, unshaven loser who tongues a lot of anus?!?
Actually, judging by the way he writes, he appears to be a 13-year-old who is not old enough to shave, and tongues a lot of anus.
This concept makes Groundskeeper Willie's retirement grease a reality !!!
Extensive research has found the sole reason why men don't mind kissing before sex.
For example when ADM uses our government tax dollars granted to them as subsidies to produce corn ethanol based fuel, they actually spend more btus converting the corn into ethanol than the ethanol yields. so basically even if the corn was free it wouldn't work. I don't know in the case of these vegetable oil powered cars; I doubt its quite as bad.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Diesels do not burn petrol or any other highly volatile fuel (although they can burn jet fuel, kerosene, or home heating oil, with varying degrees of sucess).
Of course you are right, I simply used the two extremes diesel fuel vs petrol to make a point: fuel has different properties. Peanut oil is not diesel fuel, vegetable oil is not diesel fuel, biodiesel is not 100% diesel fuel and even among the diesel blends the properties differ dramatically.
See the DOE's fuel property database.
Yes, in the good old days of low-pressure distribution pumps (3000-5000psi as one other slashdotter mentioned) you simply could change the injection timing by tampering with the mechanically governor.
With modern cars being sooner a mobile network of dedicated ECU's, you can't do this anymore. Not only because of the inaccessability but also because you now have some more objectives than just burning fuel somehow to release torque on the flywheel: You need to control the combustion in order to comply with emission legislations.
I do not know if your extensive practical experience covers this topic as well. Usually NOx and smoke show contrary tendencies, so does CO2 and NOx, engine response and smoke etc... you have to think about all those factors when designing an engine and a combustion process. Really, it's not the old days anymore!
EPA staff has released an excellent paper where they try to summarize latest trends. Definitely worth a read!
To recap: Modern diesels burn "biodiesel" with no modifications. They can also burn vegetable oil with a few minor modifications, mostly because that's what Dr. Diesel originally designed his machine for.
Theoretically "minor" adjustments but this is only valid for the designer/manufacturer, not the individual customer. See above.
BTW: I am not quite sure that Rudolf Diesel ever was a "Dr.", AFAIK he studied Mechanical Engineering in Munich, but that's it. Just because other web sites keep calling him "Dr." doesn't mean it is true... But I'm not 100% sure about this either.
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
If memory serves, biodiesel was originally made from sewage.
If you think your car runs like shit now, just wait.
When my dad was diagnosed with asthma (as everyone in my immediate family has been) the Doc gave him an inhaler to try out and teach him how to use etc. "now the first few times you do this it's going to taste like diesel fuel", however after taking his two hits my dad looked him straight in the eye and said it tastes nothing like diesel fuel. The doctor stood there staring at him not knowing what to say for a minute before mumbling something about how he was using the inhaler right and to come back in month or so, then walked out.
And yes, my dad does know what diesel fuel tastes like.
"please pull ahead, your fries aren't quite finished yet"
"no its ok, im in a hurry, just toss 'em under the hood"
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Not gunpowder. Powdered coal.
Coal Dust! which is a violent explosive and has caused most fatalities in underground mine explosions, because it is a much higher explosive than methane, which is a low explosive in most cases in underground accidents.
But Rudolph had a lot of problems handling the fuel and injecting it into the cylinder head under pressure, since it wasn't a fluid.
Really, coal dust, really, I swear
Some smaller shops still toss their old grease, but for at least four decades it's been standard for restaurants to save old cooking grease in 55 gallon barrels, which are picked up regularly by a service, who then sells the used cooking grease to various manufacturers. It's made into pet food, livestock feed, fertilizer, plastics, industrial chemicals, and so forth. Cooking oil is mainly long-chain carbon compounds, somewhat akin to petroleum, so it stands to reason that it can be used in many similar ways.
Fact is, there is very little surplus cooking oil (which includes both animal and vegetable fats -- the main practical difference is that most veg.fats are liquid at room temperature, thus don't require heating to get 'em to flow in a pipe).
Fresh cooking oil wholesales for about $3 per gallon, because it's relatively expensive to produce and is in high demand. Unprocessed scrap animal fat (such as butcher shop trimmings) wholesales for about 8 cents a pound, so I'd guess used cooking oil (which is sold to the same manufacturing market) sells for about the same price.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That only happens if there's no local grease dealer -- restaurants still need to get rid of used grease. Normally restaurants get 2-3 cents a pound for the used oil, and the guy who picks it up resells it at whatever the current commodity price is (I'd guess presently around 8 cents a pound, tho it's been as high as 24 cents/lb.)
:)
And the reason it's classed as it is, is because cooking oil can contaminate the ground very similarly to how motor oil does. It's not exactly "toxic" but in large quantities it renders soil unfit for cultivation, and runoff can contaminate water supplies and clog water treatment filters. Remember, it floats on top of water just like motor oil does, and tastes just about as good.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Yeah -- let's review, you fucking little puke. I think everyone is tired of your juvenile bullshit (you're not even funny) so I think it's time ./ banned both you and your IP from posting here again. The other guy has a point about prosecuting your ass, btw; I'd love to see it happen.
I think everyone would like you to start posting non-anonymous, because you sound like the kind of person I'd like to meet and beat the shit out of.
The only point the other anonymous faggot had was that he was a FUCKING RETARD. I don't believe you can prosecute people for making a suggestion...
Here's a couple, from me to you.
-Pull your miniscule balls out of your flab, if you have any testosterone in you... and don't post anonymous.
-Lose some weight, for Christ's sake. I don't even have to see you to know that you are a fat motherfucker.
-Get some friends.
-Go outside... it may help you develop some primitive social skills.
-Join a support group for special people.
Your posts are just so fucking retarded that I've archived them all here.
In conclusion, fuck off and die... you gay Linux hippie.
Signed, Y2KBugs Bunny. I can't post this because I've already posted twice.
Yes, we all fear you.
A friend of mine makes 'clean diesel' fuel in his garage. Here's the lowdown:
* spent under $1000 on vats, plumbing, and whatnot to build the rig.
* uses cooking oil from restaurants that normally have to pay to dispose of it.
* The process: after you strain out the french fries and crap, you mix the oil with (methanol?) and separate it into two substances - fuel and gunk. The fuel goes right into your diesel car, and the gunk is the best hand soap earth has ever seen.
* only one mod is made to the car: you have to slap a small heater onto the fuel filter cause the stuff gels up in the cold weather alot easier than regular diesel.
* Here's the ringer: Volkswagen actually endorses this, so they won't void your warranty if you use it.
It's no joke. Half of what the guy makes is for his own two cars, the other half he sells to friends at just enough markup to cover the cost of the entire project. In exchange for the work, the guy hasn't paid a dime for gas in five years, and his friends pay about 40 cents a gallon...
-ZIG