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Sprint PCS Launches 3G Network
pdp1144 writes "Sprint PCS launched the first nationwide 3G wireless network today. Code named Vision it will allow wireless data speeds starting at an average of 50 to 70 kbps." The question is, how much? If the data plan is such that you can use up a month's allotment in five minutes of downloading... Simson Garfinkel had a good column on this recently.
About time the US started catching up with the rest of the world. Not to mention I love CDMA ;o) .
now even more people will spend half their freakin' days on the phone. just what America needs.
i say let Japan keep their toys. look at their culture in the cities; there's so much sensory saturation, it's creepy.
Simon Garfunkel??? Is he for or against the use of 3G cel phones for downloading free mp3's???
At last I can watch porn wherever I go!
Je t'aime Stéphanie
it is called M-mode...
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
last I heard, any and all current US implementations of a "3G" system were only pseudo-3G in that they don't offer the full system capabilities.
What they offer is still way faster than any other wireless phone out there, but not the true 3G offering - I didn't read the article or look into this further, but were Sprint truly the first one out, that would be a big surprise.
I can recall msnbc talking about this recently and I *think* they also said that it wasn't full 3G
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Actually I submitted this article last week but was rejected.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
At Last! My sprint account rep has been talking about this all year with the "As soon as the announcement comes, I can say more" routine. Now its time to see if it is worth all of the fuss.
___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
They've been promising this since January of this year. Nice to see they're finally following thru, now that I've found a new wireless provider and all.
The states is finally catching up with Europe's telecoms... After many years of "waffling" on 2.5G and 2G. Even now, they aren't anywhere near Europe, but they are getting closer. What they really need now is the FCC to give them some more bandwidth to work with (take it away from the media conglomerates).
I say this takes another 3-5 years before it is as enmeshed as Europe's as well, and even then, Europe will still be heads and shoulders ahead.
~ kjrose
some folks sure are going to get a shocking bill next month.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
In a releated story from dc.internet.com:
Mobilepro Corp., with its subsidiary, Neoreach, Inc., a developer of semiconductor chips for third generation (3G) wireless communication services, has signed a memorandum of understanding with the RF Microelectronics Lab (RFIC) at the Information and Communications University in South Korea to co-develop a new semiconductor chip.
Under the agreement, engineering teams from Neoreach and RFIC will devote joint research and design expertise, staffing, facilities resources, project management, and testing for the development of an RF CMOS, a radio frequency chipset.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
This is no more exciting than Verizon Wireless' "Express Network."
...
Heck, it's the same technology, basically.
And I guess this is great; Sprint has upgraded both of their cell sites to work with 1XRTT. Whee.
Sure, VZW isn't done upgrading _everything_ yet, but they've got a LOT more network coverage than sprint does
--NBVB
Don't you just love a news site where a PMSing editor can delay a story by a week? :-p
.. think of all the the phone sex girls who will really have to be 6 foot 4" with blonde hair, blue eyes, and DD busts.
Now let's see how many of the unwieldly apps we have today can be shoehorned onto a freaking phone screen. I'll wait till the innovative apps that make it worthwhile show up. I mean would all the crap they put on the news channels these days (frames, quotes, scrollers) be of any use and help at all? No. That's what radio is for. Wow! Now you can pay per minute to see flesh toned blob speak to the latest suicide bombing while driving 75mph in LA giving someone the bird because you sideswiped because you were watching your phone and now they want to shoot you or run you off the road. Shit. Some people can barely drive as it is.
VonKraken
What is it with companies giving everything dumb names. It's like a company calling DSL the speedpath service or "high speed edition". If you call up a customer rep and say DSL or 3G they probably wouldn't have a clue.
This may not directly apply to the article, but it is cell-related ;). Anyhow, I don't have much interest in the latest gee-whiz gizmos from the mobile companies -- but I do care about sound quality.
Are there any websites that compare the audio quality from the various carriers? I'm with Voicesteam at the moment, and that offers surprisingly landline-like quality at times, but I'm always looking for improvements.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Actually, I am Canadian. But, to be honest I think being European is a pretty decent thing. I like the European side of Canadian culture.
~ kjrose
The bandwidth is nowhere near broadband, more like GPRS, which I believe is still considered 2.5G. And GPRS has been around for quite a while, especially overseas.
I hope that when 3G finally arrives it lives up to (at least some) of the hype generated.
I don't know what the license fees were paid for in the US, but considering that the British economy was propped up with Billions of 3G license money... I'm wondering just how much it is going to cost (especially net return in the first couple of years) the average consumer? The telecoms companies are really suffering because of economic problems (esp. the dot-bomb) and will be looking to this as a lifeline to reinject much needed capitol into their coffers.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
PCS Free & Clear with Vision - Initially ranging in price from $44. 99 to $119.99, PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans will include megabytes for data usage along with varying amounts of voice minutes, depending on the individual plan. For a limited time, Sprint will offer special introductory rate plans that provide more Anytime Minutes than standard Free & Clear plans; allow customers to share minutes with another PCS phone for no additional charge and each phone will have two megabytes of data to use. An example of the introductory PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans include the $89.99 per month plan that features 2,000 Anytime Minutes that can be used by an individual or shared between two people.
If I recall correctly, 2000 anytime minutes right now is $149, so this could be a good initial deal! There's other pricing for laptops.
-DJ
Baa Baa?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Nationwide as in: accessible anywhere in the nation or is it Nationwide as in: there are spots of coverage dispersed throughout the country.
I have Sprint PCS Mobile service and I'm often dissapointed at the lack of digital coverage in many places that aren't right next to an interstate. Nationwide calling area is nice, but first you have to be on the network, and if you travel anywhere away from the interstate you'd better be ready to pay the analog roaming rate.
~ now you know
The more technology I live with, the more I like to abandon it and go to the country. I never like phone calls, I usually dislike TV, I often dislike the Web and email and computers...
I am beginning to see a pattern here. Does anyone else notice that the in the last ten years, the fun seems to have slowly bled from computing and technology?
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
I guess I need more sleep -- I was sure it said that article was by Simon Garfunkle the first time I looked at it. Now /that/ would be an interesting article on 3G wireless ... ok. Probably not.
I've been beta testing this for our Sprint Rep and comparing it to verizon's Express Network. It's essentially the same, Sprint's always seems to work IF there is a signal, however Verizon's sometimes has a strong signal and it does not work as well or at all. Notibly Verizon has had much better coverage. My pet peeve with all these is the latency, why is it still 300+ms ? I would like to know how the future of wireless be it spread-net, satilight(sp?), or some combination there of is going to overcome latency problems.
The bandwidth equals about or a little better than what you would expect from a modem, and it IS fairly reliable (unlike it's precessor CDPD). I've used VoIP and even put a webcam in my car's window so my father could whatch me drive around for a day... But performance would be 5x better if round trip were closer to 100ms).
My 2cents
Reverse psychology DOES work...
Je t'aime Stéphanie
***Screenshot from a Sprint 3G Cellphone***
(1) Weather
(2) News
(3) Pr0n
(3) Sport Scores
(4) Get AOL Now!
*********
Is THAT the reason I want wireless web at any speed on my cellphone?
Now I'll be able to watch this this streaming to my cell phone!!!!!
The real question is will it work. VoiceStream has been offering GPRS data service for over a year and it never worked. I have a color hand held device with a GPRS modem that was on VoiceStreams GPRS network about three months ago in Chicago. It worked only about 90% of the time if that. It was absolutly terrible and completly use less. VoiceStream them selves even admitted that it was their system and there was nothing they could do. The data rates were OK when it worked about 1.5k per sec. In the three months I had service for testing at work I think I was on their system for no more than 15 minutes total. My point being that anyone clam anything but does it work.
The full press release is here.
Pretty, high res images here.
Finally catching up with the rest of the world (maybe even sneaking ahead).
Error loading humorous sig.
from the first-post dept.
/. posters to be able to mod down editors...
Geez...that's as good an excuse as any for
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Aaicheewahwah...
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Isn't Pr0n supposed to be what causes new technologies to take off?
I was puzzled not to see any mention of it in Sprint's announcement of their PCS Vision services.
If I take a photo with my phone, then will the photo and GPS coordinates of where it was taken be DRM protected so that if I email the photo/gps to your phone you can't see it?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Right after I invested in a new phone...
Well, this is nice news, because it should also give the others a kick in the rear to get their next-gen plans working. However, I want to know if all this bandwidth-boosting is going to improve call quality. I still get dropped calls in my home (brooklyn) and in certain parts of NYC I inexplicably go on analog roam for two or three blocks at a time.
I'd be really happy if this meant I could finally really for real loose my landline.
Howard Dean for president
saw this posted over at the treocentral forums...its from Salomon Smith Barney discussing the 3G launch.
"We have been tracking the signs for Sprint's upcoming "3G" launch, regarding
the brand, launch date, price, and handset selection. Our checks have
indicated that Sprint's new brand for its "3G" wireless data service is PCS
Vision, which will be billed on bits and bytes, rather than minutes.
On timing, we believe there is substantial confusion over the "official" launch
date. Based on our channel checks, "3G" capable phones may go on sale in the
indirect channels in stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City, beginning on
August 8. The "official" launch in Sprint's direct stores may not occur until,
at least, August 12, and may extend to August 19.
On price, we find that Sprint PCS will build upon its national pricing
schematic with its introduction of data, rather than become more aggressive for
national voice minute pricing. We would emphasize the data pricing described
in this report are indications and are still subject to change ahead of the
launch. We have received indications that Sprint will maintain its current
pricing for national voice minutes, which is constructive for the industry.
However, the decision may limit the company's ability to improve its share
relative to the aggressive pricing tactics of its competitors. We find the
data pricing indications to still be somewhat expensive with a minimum
increment of around $10/month on the existing national plans for 2 MB and
likely around $0.02/Kilobyte thereafter. All-in, pricing is not substantially
cheaper than current data plans in the market.
On the handset front, we believe Sprint will launch with several new color
phones by Samsung, Sanyo, and LG as well as with a PC Card, likely from
Novatel. Price points for the handsets should range between $179.99 and
$279.99."
"* Branding -- We expect Sprint PCS to launch a new brand name for its "3G"
service, "PCS Vision." The service will offer applications such as MMS
(multi-media messaging), games, downloadable ring-tones and screen savers,
and ISP-like access for laptops/PDAs.
* Timing -- We find a substantial level of noise within the channels, regarding
the launch date of Sprint's "3G" service. Based on our channel checks, we
believe "3G" capable phones may go on sale in the indirect channels in store
such as Best Buy and Circuit City, beginning on August 8. New displays may
not be constructed until the weekend. The "official" launch may not occur
until, at least, August 12, and may extend to August 19. Our conclusion is
that August 8 will begin somewhat of a soft launch, with the promotional
campaign set for, at least, 1-2 weeks later. We find few employees have been
trained on the service, based on our discussions. Some employees expected to
be trained within the next week. Also, several company stores expected to
receive their full "3G" displays from Sprint within the next 7-10 days. We
do not believe the direct PCS stores are stocking material levels of
inventory of the new phones, yet.
* Pricing -- We have learned that Sprint PCS is currently planning to maintain
its national voice pricing and charge a premium for data access by the
megabyte and kilobyte. Our data points on pricing are preliminary and are
subject to change ahead of the launch. We believe Sprint will begin offering
data packages at an access level of $49.99 with data plans going up to
$119.99. The company will offer these plans on several new color-screen
phones with data capabilities as well as a PC-card modem at launch. Services
will initially focus around multi-media messaging (including digital
pictures), gaming, and laptop connectivity.
Figure 1 highlights the preliminary pricing indications we have received from
our research. Sprint has essentially added a $10 charge for 2 MB of data to
its popular national price points at $39.99 and $49.99. For 8 MB of data,
Sprint has typically added $20-$25 to each of the access charges. We expect
the additional charge per KB to be around $0.02 if customers break their
buckets.
FIGURE 1. PRELIMINARY INDICATIONS ON 3G PRICING
Monthly Charge
$49.99 $59.99 $74.99 $84.99 $89.99 $99.99 $119.99
Peak Min. 350 500 750 750 1,000 1,000 1,300
Off-Peak Min. 3,650 4,500 5,750 5,750 7,000 7,000 8,700
MB Data 2 2 2 8 2 8 8
Source: SSB research and estimates.
To put the pricing into perspective, we return to our VEP, voice-equivalent
pricing model, that is far from perfect, but allows us to compare the price
for data services on an apples-to-apples basis with voice. The methodology
uses average throughput of the data network to convert data traffic into
voice minutes. This can give us a back of the envelope measurement to
compare with voice capacity and pricing. We calculate a voice equivalent
price (VEP) per minute for a given data plan as follows:
where VEM, or voice equivalent minutes, is defined by the following formula:
Using average throughput of 30 kbps (our average 1X experience on Verizon's
Express Network), we find Sprint is pricing these buckets at a healthy
implied voice equivalent price of $0.70 - $1.13/minute
FIGURE 2. VOICE-EQUIVALENT PRICE POINTS
VEP
Throughput 2 MB 8 MB
20 kb/sec $0.75 $0.47
30 kb/sec $1.13 $0.70
40 kb/sec $1.50 $0.94
Source: SSB Estimates.
The sensitivity analysis above shows that Sprint has flexibility to increase
the size of the data buckets, especially if the loaded 3G network offers
faster average throughput speeds. As the speed of the network improves,
Sprint is able to achieve better voice equivalent pricing per minute. Data
margins will be sensitive to the cost for content and subscriber acquisition
and education.
Sprint is clearly trying to hold the line on its national voice pricing,
which is constructive for the industry and the company's subscriber
economics. However, its national competitors have not broadly shared
Sprint's strategy. Thus, pricing is a double-edged sword for PCS as the
company is trying to improve subscriber economics at low access plans, but
may limit its marketshare in the process. We do appreciate Sprint's effort
to differentiate on its service offering, rather than on price, and view it
as a constructive signal that Sprint is focused on its subscriber
profitability. On the data pricing front, we believe Sprint's data pricing,
like its competitors, runs the risk of revenue cannibalization for customers
that use too much or too little data. We still believe material data revenue
is, at least, 12 months away given the pricing plans and level of customer
education required. We highlight the pricing of its competitors' 2.5G data
services below."
"* Handset Selection -- We are enthusiastic for the launch of Sprint's new line-
up of handsets that should begin with at least two color-screen phones at or
below $200 and a PC-card for laptops/PDAs. We expect Sprint's phones to
include the color Samsung N400 which should retail for $199.99 and likely a
color-screen Sanyo 4900 for $179.99. These phones should be 1X voice and
data capable. Sprint should also offer the Samsung A500 for around $279.99.
We also expect LG to launch a color-screen flip phone at or near the launch
date, but we could not ascertain the SRP (suggested retail price) from our
channel checks. We expect Sprint to deploy several PC-card modems that will
range in features and price. We expect PC-card modems to range from $249.99
- $399.99 at retail. The company should also shortly launch the Audiovox
Thera, an integrated phone/PDA using Pocket PC, as well as the color
Handspring Treo."
Wow, excellent experiment in influencing group dynamics. By *not* being sheep, they showed that they are sheep. They allowed themselves to be influenced by your statement, and have refused to mod up a funny post!
Anyone knows what the latency is in this kind of networks?
Everybody talks about bandwidth all the time but wireless nets most problems these days are the horribly latencys.
Here is the submission I made just as the story got posted:
/. stories about things like the Treo.
Sprint has just announced their 3G stuff. Looks pretty sweet, and the prices look to be a heck of a lot better than that ION thing they tried. Compared to the Palm VII service, the 3G pretty much kills that right off as well. Also, be sure to check out the pretty pictures of the phones.
The phones look pretty cool, though there is nothing really new now that I go back and look at previous
The pricing is set to start at $50 and go up to $115/month. Not great, but not bad either. They are saying most people will do the $80/mo plan which gives you a few megabytes of data. Still not great. Though it is still cheaper than what Palm/Blackberry want.
Get your facts straight.
SprintPCS: One all-digital network, spans nation, one set of services.
ATT & Verizon : at LEAST 11 different networks and technologies stitched together (as a result of numerous acquisitions across the country) to APPROXIMATE a nationwide network. You'll note that both AT&T and Verizon DO NOT offer their "3G" services in every coverage area... they can't! Not all of the patchwork networks support it! Care to take a guess at how many billing systems Verizon has? It's going to be a piece of cake to bill on behalf of 3rd party service/content providers, right?
Oh but that won't be such a big problem, now that they have MS helping them. Sure.
It's sad to see something so cool being sold so horribly. I called their sales department, only to find that they are metering this service (no unlimited data service)
They use sierra wireless aircards (no model numbers, i assume 555 series) and novatel C201s
They had two prices, one was around $40-$50, and the other as $70-$80. You're limited pretty much to 1M/1$.
I stopped paying attention after they told me that there was no unlimited service. I guess it's "helloooo verizon", cept $1200 a year + modem seems to be a wee much. anyone know of any other carriers (preferably in the sf/bay area) offering these services?
How much for flat rate unlimited data?
So when can I buy the fancy new phones? And will they have bluetooth? Or better yet, can I get the T68i for sprint 3G and stand out infront of the Washington Monument and ask people from Texas to take my picture? :)
If I order new-and-nifty phone from Japane, will I be able to use it?
I'd hope this would be possible, but I'm guessing the answer's no... sigh.
How compatible is this with Linux and other non-Windoz OSs? It all kinda sucks if you have to Windows to access this "wonderful" new service!
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Yet another person spews out regurgitated Sprint PCS "The Clear Alternative to Ourselves" commercials.
Verizon may be a patchwork, but even their digital area is larger than Sprint's puny "nationwide" network.
Look at a coverage map of Verizon's America's Choice plan (These are the digital coverage areas - I don't think the analog towers have the advanced roaming features needed for such a plan). Then look at the coverage for Sprint's plans.
Sprint's "roaming" area is about 75% of the map. Verizon's "covered" area with America's Choice is 60%+ of the map.
I have complete digital coverage with all features over most of upstate New York (the boonies), including where I went to school in Ithaca. Sprint??? Syracuse, Buffalo, and recently Binghamton, that's it. Oh, Ithaca now has service as of a few months ago, but if you leave town with Sprint you're roaming. The entire region was digital for Frontier Cellular (now Verizon) customers over three years ago.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I really enjoy how invariably the posts in each slashdot article about cellphones are split 50/50 between:
a) "I HATE CELLPHONES THEY ARE THE BANE OF ALL THINGS GOOD AND SHOULD BE OUTLAWED, GREAT THIS JUST MEANS THAT EVEN MORE PEOPLE WILL BE YAPPING IN PUBLIC AND AT MOVIES" (seen here)
and
b) "FINALLY CRAPPY OLD AMERICA IS CATCHING UP WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, FINALLY, WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG, WE'RE STILL BETTER, TAKE THAT AMERICAN CAPITALISM, CELL PHONES FOREVER!!" (seen here)
Wrong, no they didn't. Read the fine print. No GSM carriers in the US are anywhere near rolling out 3G. AT&T Wireless = GSM
Sprint PCS = CDMA
From reading the first few comments it seems that just about everyone is confused about this 3G launch. This *IS* 3G folks. 2.5G was GPRS which provides data services, but is slow as shit (it can be faster if you implement more channels, but no providers really support more than 3 at a time).
Also, as far as plans go, there are several. All of which include a few megabytes of transfer allowed per month (except for the cheapest which is 1 meg I think). The prices for overage are NOT $1 or $2/meg it's cheaper than that (though, I can't remember off the top of my head what it is).
What kind of speeds/latency can one expect from this network? About 127 kilobits/sec and ~400ms. While that isn't anywhere near your cable/DSL speeds, it's lightyears ahead of the 19.2 kilobits/sec that was previously the norm for cellular networks.
This is NOT meant to be a broadband replacement. It's meant to take cell phones to the next level of service. Using computers with them is just an afterthought.
-Riskable
"Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
... everyone is talking about "how we've fallen behind europe and japan" like this is some kind of race. How much demand is there really for these advanced services in the US? Remember, most Americans commute to work alone by car vs. those goddless europeans and japanese who take the train... When we get to work, we all have nice broadband connections and when we get home, the vast majority of us have 56k connections (at least.)
At any rate, my point is -- this stuff is cool, but it's not really going to capture the popular imagination for awhile, if at all.
Thank you for asking. Since the reason I got a mobile phone, was the fascination to have a hightech phonebooth (92 grams, 5 days fuse) in my pocket.
But you have no color screen, you might say
Well yeah, beacuse the BW display actually performs pretty well, what it's supposed to do: It displays
You might reason: But you can't run java aps
Thank you very much, but exactly because it doesn't run any java apps, or exactly because I can't edit an Excel spreadshit while driving down the Autobahn with 170 (km/h) it is extremely stable (which is the main fucking requirement for a cell phone in the first place) and never crashed on me (Nokia 6510).
Information services (directory services, timetables) are accessible via SMS just fine and tomorrow, when I get out of the plane in Lisboa I will marvel once again at the engineering behind gsm and the fact, that it works there just fine.
Same as in a sicilian mountain village or in the Australian bush (yeah, maybe not quite; but you get the picture).
Brother, your comment hits the spot, so to speak.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
bound to fail more than charging the same for 100 megabytes downloaded through a tiny screen than it costs me for my car payment. I am not exactly a tight wad. I think my $35 a month for my cable modem connection is the best thing since sliced bread -- but you would not believe how many people refuse to even pay that for home high speed connects. (these are even people in the tech industry...) This is the market that these cell phone companies are going to try to tap for an extra $80 bucks or so to download a few megs through their cellphones??? What are they smoking?
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Doesn't anybody care about how long the batteries last. It's a drag to carry around a charger just cuz your phone's active matrix screen sucks its batterie dry every 10 minutes.
I wrote this before as a story idea on slashdot before (but it did not "take"). There is a mobile phone company in Hungary that provides high speed (GPRS) internet for its subscribers for around $10 a month with unlimited access (no time or transfer limits) inside the country. Take that Sprint!
Apparently Sprint didn't lose enough of its shirt on its stupid ION project of not long ago. Look it up.
...
It too was supposed broadband something-or-other, and it too had a pricing scheme that was laughable.
Consider today's Sprint announcement, and you won't wonder why they tank even more in coming months. Crappy, lossy network. Overpriced phones for no real reason. A ton of unsold "non-3G" phones that will suddenly weigh them down. Pricing idiocy.
Best thing right now is if Cingular buys AT&T Wireless, melds the two networks, and does AT&T's M-Mode (say what you want, but they're the closest to delivering this futuristic thing all other companies have been promising) without location restrictions. That will, in one fell swoop, bump Verizon from the top slot, kill Voicestream/T-Mobile, and leave Sprint gasping for air.
Hey, I'm on the Sprint World Headquarters campus right now, and my phone is falling off their network so frequently it sounds like a song.
And this is going to deliver 3G content? For HOW much?
Sorry, visION. We've seen it before, it sucked, and you didn't learn your lesson. I can hear the layoffs coming
So you are saying Verizon digital coverage might be great as long as the original carrier provided such a network, and you stay where you are. Verizon claiming national coverage may be literally true, but still a bit misleading. Take your phone around the country like that jackass on the commercials, and yes, you may be able to "hear him now." But as you traverse coverage areas, your device will gain/lose functionality depending where you are.
As a consumer, I think having lots of heterogenous networks patched together is good, as long as they interoperate perfectly. The reality is, this is not the case.
As a content/service provider, I want to know that the whizbang service I am deploying on a wireless carrier's network will be available to the bulk of the subscriber base. Not just Ithica, NY. Although I don't personally have anything against Ithica.
Also as a content/service provider, I want to make sure the carrier is billing my content/service consistently, and can do so across the subscriber base. You must admit it is easier to do this with one network and one billing system. I notice you didn't address this point in your response above.
I've been using Sprint PCS for years now, eagerly awaiting this nationwide upgrade. Now that its arrived, where's the information on what phones can take advantage of the new network? I have a Sanyo SCP-4500, which apparently is not compatible with the new 1xRTT network ... the 4700 model is, but apparently only with the voice side of 1xRTT, data speeds are still as slow as regular CDMA.
The Sprint PCS site has NO readily apparent information on the new 3G network - you'd think it would be front-page news, either on the PCS site or on Sprint.com. What would be even nicer is an email from Sprint PCS to all current subscribers of the Wireless Web option indicating (a) which phones will be able to take advantage of the faster speeds on the 1xRTT network (b) what the costs plans are for the networks (c) what additional peripheral devices are available and (d) what to do to sign-up (online, preferably).
What's the deal here?
I wonder how long it'll be before the RIAA and the MPAA get it shut down for facilitating piracy?
I am so fucking tired of all this bullshit. All I want is a working cell phone to make and receive calls. Dropped calls all the time. Half of my incoming calls go straight to voicemail (that is if it works - about 1/2 the time). I have had Bell South, AT&T, Sprint, Voicestream etc. and they ALL suck. I will not spend one dime on internet access or any other fucking bullshit feature until the basic function (telephone) works properly. New is not better, different is not better, only better is better!
If you are considering a purchase of any kind of internet connectivity, wireless or otherwise, from Sprint, I have some advice for you.
Run. Run like the wind and don't look back.
I just had Sprint's 8 Mbit Down/ 1 Mbit up business ADSL installed a month ago. It worked beautifully, gave me 5 usable static IPs, and was a modest $160/month for a two year contract.
Within two weeks of having the service I got an email alluding to a "reorganization" of their DSL service.
Eight days later I got a snail mail telling me the service was being cancelled for "economic" reasons ("we would have held you to your two-year contract as a weak individual, but don't even think of trying to hold us to our end of the bargain, and here's a $400 refund on your $600 bill of shut-up money"). Oh, and we'll give you a service that is one sixth as fast (1.5 Mbit down, 384k up) for $130 month, installation waived, because we're such nice folks. Of course, I can buy the exact same service Sprint is reselling (Covad ADSL) directly from Covad for just $80/month ($50 less per month for the identical product!), so that great deal Sprint is offering isn't so great after all.
When I tried to get clarification by phone from Sprint representatives who apparently knew even less than I, I got as a response "look, half of us our losing their jobs, what do you want?"
I want the service I signed a two year contract to receive and am paying for, and I want to know what the hell is going on.
So, long story short: there is no way in hell I will buy any service, wireless or otherwise, from a company as flakey and unreliable as Sprint has proven themselves to be, and I would encourage anyone else considering any of their services to be extremely skeptical of Sprint's ability to deliver.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I have yet to lose digital coverage and features with my phone in ANY area where my roaming light wasn't on, and I've done a lot of traveling up and down the Northeast. My roaming light rarely turns on. Verizon blew away Sprint in Ithaca, and it's marginally better where I'm currently living in Central Jersey.
If you want a better example, try inputting 08836 as your zip code for Sprint.
Compare Sprint's coverage of New Jersey (50% coverage of one of the most densely populated states in the country? You've got to be kidding me!!!) to Verizon's 100% coverage, which has yet to go to analog fallback or lose features for me. (I am now living in central Jersey.)
Basically, Verizon and its predecessors had superior coverage 2-3 years ago to what Sprint has now, and will always remain ahead of the game.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
... and you STILL refuse to address the salient points of the discussion.
Simson Garfinkel had a good column on this recently.
read as
Simon and Garfunkel had a good column on this recently.
which made me wonder
1) when did they start actually working together again, and
2) what the hell do they care about this stuff?
stupid brain.
Ricochet is about 40-100Kb/s, so it's comparable to 3G. And it's flat-rate, at $44.95/month.
I had Ricochet service five years ago, and it was quite good. It was a viable alternative to dial-up at the time.
With existing phones?
This is all good and fine, but when will the damned GPS features of my SPH-N300 phone start working? They promised April and it's now August... Their press releases say nothing about GPS at all, nor the "cool" features that GPS enabled web browsing will/would offer.
Hrrrrm....what about VoiceStream/T-Mobile launching 2.5/3G close to a year and a half ago??? I love all the bashing going on. Blah Blah, CMDA is better than GSM, GSM people will be screwed, CDMA is the way man. Well why is Cingular and AT&T for that matter converting all their TDMA networks to GSM? Yes GSM is a derivative of TDMA technology, but if CDMA was the way they would better invest their money phasing out TDMA and going to CDMA. The one thing CDMA has going for it is its efficient use of specturm. Flame away but read the facts about GSM before yah bash it
3G is a bit misleading I think. CDMA 1x is really more of a 2.5G technology. Sprint is following the CDMA 2000 evolution path, from 1xRTT to EV-DO and then EV-DV. Eventually CDMA will use OFDM (like 802.11a WLANs) over three channels to achieve 2+Mbps downstream but that will only begin to happen in 2004/2005. I think GSM->GPRS->EDGE->UMTS evolution path will probably be used by more telecoms worldwide.
:(
This news is good for the telecom industry. With several countries scaling back their spending on 3G, the day when i'll be playing multiplayer Doom3 on my cellphone seems even further away
This isn't the 3G all the hype was about. This is a half-assed step in between 2G and 3G put out in a desperate attempt to make money without the massive infrastructure investment that a full 3G network will take. In the end, it's too expensive for the consumer and not fast enough to get the majority of people to pay for it. Remember Metricom? They offered a similar product but they failed miserably in the market.
-slash@jonsimon.com
Am I the only one who read that guy's name as "Simon and Garfunkel?"
the coolest club on
Why do American companies seem to so not get this whole wireless thing? It's about consumers, and it's about content, stupid! Do these idiots think 30 million people in Japan signed up for i-Mode to play Cyracer or to access Google? Gimme a break! If you look at the wealth of content available on i-Mode, its pricing structure, its marketing (for God's sake, somebody please emulate DoCoMo's marketing, as they're obviously the only telecom company in the world that understands what the term means), then the essence of the thing and its success slowly starts to sink in.
To use one of DoCoMo's own failures in support of my argument, just look at the slow rate of adoption of 3G in Japan. Nobody cares about data speeds on cel phones, they care about content and pricing.
To paraphrase that famous Roman General Maximus, "DoCoMo had a vision that is wireless, and this is not it. This is not it." And neither is m-Mode, AT&T's poor attempt at an i-Mode knockoff, I'm sorry to say.
thank fuck for that!!
Now, if I don't have to sell organs to pay for it; and there's not a whole lot of 'hidden' charges like "network access fees" and the like, then maybe I'll get it.
Nah; I'll just stick with a prepaid wireless plan like Tracfone for the very rare time I need to make a call away from home.
I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
Sprint is by far the worst company with respect to service... customer and phone service. 3 out of every 4 calls I make/receive are dropped. I have been hung up on by customer service 4 times and been told that "Sprint will not allow its customers to take advantage of them". ? Isnt that what a company would want you to do???
No matter what new innovations they come up with, I will never subscribe to or use them. Anyone else ever have problems with them?? If so, what did do to resolve it? Me, i am going to sign up with a new service very soon.. bye bye Sprint...
100% Insightful
250 anytime/3250 nights $34.99/month 0mb data, no LD
300/3700 $39.99 0mb
300/3700 $49.99 2mb
500/4500 $59.99 2mb
650/4850 $64.99 2mb possible no LD
650/4850 $84.99 24mb possible no LD
1000/6500 $124.99 24mb
To compare to some of the old non-data plans, I've been paying $30/month for 300/3500 for a few years, so adding 2mb of data would essentially cost me $20/month. The cost of data does come down with the higher-priced plans, 50/3500 for $50 was a pretty common non-data plan
" For a limited time, customers can sign up for unlimited data usage plans for $49.99 for the first three months and $99.99 for the rest of the contract term" News.com story
We use Sprint for long-haul data and their troubleshooting of downed lines is appalling. Nothing gets fixed until it gets escalated to level 5, when things do get fixed there's never any explanation as to why they were down (often for *days*) except for handwaving at local telco.
It doesn't help their image that most of the technicians and contact people are obviously southern blacks with a diction and grammar that renders them nearly unintelligible.
Sprint's roll-out is not true 3G. It is a 2.5G network, similar to Verizon's Express Network 2.5G service, which they began rolling-out earlier this year. The Sprint PCS and Verizon Wireless 2.5G networks are both using CDMA 1xrtt, the AT&T Wireless 2.5G network uses GSM/GPRS.
Handspring's communicators page now lists the Treo 300 as "right around the corner". Rumours abound about what exactly it'll be, but it looks like it will be identical to the 270 and (sigh) no Graffiti-only version. My local Best Buy was out of Treos this morning, and said that they were waiting for the Sprint PCS Version, due "next week".
http://www.forbes.com/best/2002/0325/002.html
VoiceStream already is nationwide 3G and has been for quite some time. I have been enjoying nationwide GSM/GPRS service on my ericsson T68 for quite some time. Couple my T68 with the D-link USB Bluetooth adapter, and I am able to put my Titanium Powerbook on the internet--anytime and anywhere. So yeah, Sprint is NOT the first nationwide 3G network.
Pricing
"Through competitively priced customer offerings, we believe that Sprint will drive the pricing standard and accelerate the adoption of convenient and relevant mobile data services made possible by PCS Vision, just as we did with nationwide long distance and other industry-first offerings," said Esrey.
Once customers determine how they plan to use PCS Vision in their lives, they have greater billing flexibility through new business and consumer PCS Free and Clear Plans with Vision, both of which provide separate allotments for crystal clear voice calls and data applications: minutes for voice calls, megabytes for data usage. For data applications, customers will be charged for data sent or received over the enhanced Sprint Nationwide PCS Network - meaning they can have the benefits of PCS Vision and still have all of their service plan minutes to make amazingly clear calls. Billing for PCS voice plans will remain unchanged and customers will continue to select a calling plan with a pre-determined number of minutes.
PCS Free & Clear with Vision -- Initially ranging in price from $44. 99 to $119.99, PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans will include megabytes for data usage along with varying amounts of voice minutes, depending on the individual plan. For a limited time, Sprint will offer special introductory rate plans that provide more Anytime Minutes than standard Free & Clear plans; allow customers to share minutes with another PCS phone for no additional charge and each phone will have two megabytes of data to use. An example of the introductory PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans include the $89.99 per month plan that features 2,000 Anytime Minutes that can be used by an individual or shared between two people. Additional phones can share the minutes for only $20 per phone and each phone on the plan will receive two megabytes of data. The special introductory plans require a one- or two-year PCS Advantage Agreement and will be available until October 31, 2002.
Here's one example of what an avid messaging user can do with two megabytes: send 100 e-mails and 150 Instant Messages and check out 100 Web pages as well as a few Games, Ringers, Screen Savers and Pictures. Heavy Web users, for instance, can expect to use two megabytes to browse 300 Web pages, send 20 e-mails and Instant Messages and download a few ringers, screen savers and games.
PCS Vision for Laptops and PDAs - For a limited time, business customers may take advantage of introductory pricing at four levels: $39.99 per month for 20 megabytes; $59.99 per month for 40 megabytes; $79.99 per month for 70 megabytes and $119.99 per month for 120 megabytes, all with a one-year PCS Advantage Agreement. Business customers can also select an introductory offer of unlimited data usage for $49.99 per month for the first three months and $99.99 thereafter with a one-year PCS Advantage Agreement.
Realizing PCS Vision is more than just new content, devices or network capability, Sprint has capitalized on the advantage of its single technology platform to revamp back-office infrastructure, most notably in the way Sprint sells to customers. On the retail side, Sprint has fundamentally changed the design and delivery of its sales process and training as well as migrated to sophisticated and innovative in-store merchandising. Sprint is extending this same targeted retail approach by elevating the retail experience at select third-party retailers and providing these partners with a high level of training and differentiation opportunities for PCS Vision products and services.
This same single technology platform has also provided Sprint with clear advantages in the industry. Building its network from the ground up with advanced wireless data services in mind, Sprint selected CDMA technology to allow an efficient and cost-effective evolutionary path to CDMA2000, maximizing spectrum and enabling Sprint to achieve up to double its voice capacity. Additionally, this single technology will support data speeds up to 144 kilobits per second, with average speeds between 50 and 70 kilobits per second. Finally, the single technology of the enhanced Sprint Nationwide PCS Network allows consistency so services and features work the same, everywhere on the enhanced network.
From a business customer standpoint, Sprint has realigned its sales account team structure and internal processes to focus more on creating compelling reasons for enterprise customers to centralize and standardize the management of their wireless purchases. Sprint plans to accelerate the sales of PCS Vision wireless data solutions to enterprise customers of all sizes by adding five new IT and telecom industry leaders to its PCS Business Solutions Program including Accenture, HP, IBM (Personal Computing Division), Ingram Micro and PwC Consulting, a business of Pricewaterhouse Coopers.
For more information on products and services, please visit www.sprint.com/mr.
Or visit a direct link
http://tf2.digitaljedi.com
This is truely newsbreaking, all the rumors to date (check Usenet) didn't suggest this!
Here is another story saying the same, these just came out tuday (August 8), whereas the other stories were yesterday.
Yahoo story on unlimited business plans
Now, what does Sprint make you do to be a "Business"?
enough said. who cares check out www.sprintpcssucks.org
This has been commented on before. But I keep two phones available .. one activated and carried actively, the other in the trunk.
..
.. would be .. or text messaging etc.
On is a recently purchased Samsung A460 . This works for me 95% of the time and obviously a recent model.
The other is a Radio Shack branded bag phone with car adapter and battery. With a standard 3 watt transmitter and comparitively huge antenna I have yet to find ANYWHERE it hasn't been able to get a signal.
A few weeks ago when a truck hit my car it came in very handy for summoning the police with no question on the signal fading.
As far as domestice uses for 3G are concerned. The problem facing wireless providers is one of finding a need and not one of technology. Transferring 1 gig of pron isn't what these things are good for
Now high school students sending doctored images of each other back and forth in class
The other thing that made a lot of sense for Sprint in this upgrade was one of pure capacity. 3G standards also allow for 3G voice. Which is incrementally better than non 3G. So for them the simple matter of throwing more calls into a area without additional towers probably pays for itself.
Of course, all the big hardware vendors get mentioned, but what about the core of the network, the OSS that ties it all together, NetHarmonix, do they ever mention that? NOOOOO! Without our software, Sprint PCS Wireless would be heartless, it wouldnt work, it wouldnt have launched! Its a thankless job, but somebody gots to do it. www.4ctele.com in case anybody cares.
Sprint is evil, pure and simple. They oversell their systems terribly, promise features that don't work, have awful coverage, and a customer service ethos that is purely satanic. Customer Advocates my ass.
Go with Verizon. Just don't fall behind in the bills and they treat you right.
Sprint is stretching the definition of "nationwide" a little bit (as most network operators tend to) because they don't count towns or cities with a population of under 100,000, Which *could* mean that most of Utah isn't covered!
"The stars are matter, we're matter, but it doesn't matter." - DVV
I heard a while back that some of the first phones in the sprint network are only going to be "3G Ready" -- They will support 3G voice features but not all the 3g data features.
just high speed cdsm
more useless market hype
-- botsex is {grep;touch;strip;unzip;head;mount}
Ok, to start off with, I'm an employee of RadioShack. Without going into detail about how we sell more cell phones, etc., I just know quite a bit about wireless technology. Yes, PCS did debue the PCS Vision 3G market today begining with us [RadioShack]. It is nationwide, and it cannot be compared to Verizon. Where VZW gets the huge footprint of coverage is from roaming agreements, WHICH THEY HAVE WITH PCS. The coverage for VZW changes almost monthly (ever hear of *228?), because they constantly change roaming agreements with other companies. On a special note, Sprint PCS is one of VZW's primary roam agreement carriers. On the next note, VZW is gearing up on a national 3G launch, but we (RadioShack and our VZW reps) don't see it for a while yet. Mostly because VZW is still working on changing all the anolog cell sites to 2G digital. Don't get me wrong, I like both PCS and VZW (I own both really), but as far as technological advances, PCS still rules the map, which is why it's a smaller network. I've often said "PCS is growing slower, but with ALL the new stuff online, but VZW is growing faster, WIHTOUT caring about anything but voice service". Flame me if you will, but that is pretty much how it is!
I don't know about voice/data combo plans, but here are the data plans:
$39.99 for 20MB, $0.002/KB overage
$79.99 for 70MB, $0.002/KB overage
$119.99 for 120MB, $0.001/KB overage
an unlimited plan will come in the future for anywhere from $130-$150 expected price range
overage on voice/data combos will be $0.02 cents/KB (yes that is 2 cents/KB, not a typo according to the guy i talked to).
speeds are to max at 144kbps, a guy that works for sprint is getting 180kbps right now, but once everyone is signed up, it will average 70-90kbps here is nashville, tn
i was told that people can signup on Monday, but have also heard Sunday at noon from one guy who was able to already purchase a Treo 300 (he said he got the last of 2)
also, for the first 3 months, you get an addition 50MB/month for free, so you get addicted to your limit, then you lose 50MB, and pay hella overage charges
if you think sprint's data prices are bad, check out voicestreams!
$19.99 for 5MB, $39.99 for 10MB, and $59.99 for 20MB, and another $4/MB overage!
Huh? 50 to 70Kbps? That's just a slight bit faster than a modem, and that's actually considered FAST in the U.S.? I wonder what Sprint is gonna charge for it.
I live in Japan, and have a PCMCIA card (it's basically a cell phone with no phone capabilities, just a modem) that does 128Kbps. It's not the fastest thing, but it's fast enough, and best yet I can use it 24/7 for a flat rate of roughly $55/month.
This is progress? Next thing they'll do is call ISDN 'high-speed'.
Here in Chicago, Sprint cancelled ION Service (Voice & Data over ATM), Wireless Broadband (From the Sears Tower To your house), and _BUSINESS_ ADSL (8D/1U) (The latter within two months of rolling it out.)
I wouldnt count on this service being around all that long if it isn't as profitable as they want it to be.
For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
Sprint, like Verizon has deployed 1XRTT, which is 2.5G technology. Verizon's phones cannot roam to European GSM networks. T-Mobile (VoiceStream) and AT&T, who have deployed 3G (GPRS), allow their phones to roam to European GSM networks.
Add to that it's not really nationwide. Any city with less than 100,000 people has no coverage. That leaves out a lot of the US.
If you think the telecom company is not responsible for the content then you have missed the point. You think DoCoMo got all their content by chance? No, they got it through a hugely innovative revenue-sharing system with content creators, which ensured both DoCoMo and the content creator profited while at the same time keeping the prices for consumers very low (i-Mode pricing starts at less than 3 bucks a month!). DoCoMo works directly with the largest content providers to ensure that they have up to date information available and that their pages look and work perfectly on their phones, and they make it extremely easy for smaller content providers (which make up the bulk of the i-Mode web service) to create and submit i-Mode sites to the company. They even make it easy for individuals to collect their own content fees through the service! It's the 60,000+ i-Mode sites that sprung up as a result of this - which are easy enough for almost anyone to create (hey, if Apple can get people to make movies, Sprint could get people to create i-Mode type sites - it's no more difficult), that have driven the subscription base and created the demand that you claim "isn't here" in the U.S.
I would suggest doing a little research on how DoCoMo's business model works, because it's not the way any American telco's business model works, and it should be. Wired Magazine did a lengthy article on the reasons for i-Mode's success a while back in their Japan issue - at least check that out.
But you really can't understand the Japanese wireless experience without going to Japan and seeing it. It's taken for granted there as the most effective way of communication there, and it's all aimed squarely at consumers, not businesses (after all, businessmen are consumers too - get them to subscribe personally, and they'll be more apt to consider the service for their business). It's not just i-Mode anymore either, it's J-phone and Tsu-ka too. They're all doing similar things now. And don't give me that bullshit about public transportation - I live in New York City, and you're going to tell me about public transportation? There are more people that ride the subways in New York City on any given day than subscribe to all the wireless web services available in this country combined. Clam up with your lame excuses as to why wireless isn't working in this country - it is the telco's fault(s).