One Step Closer to NWN for Linux

Not really that great... by bwoodring · 2002-08-12 13:59 · Score: 1, Offtopic

I hate to tell any Linux holdouts, but NWN isn't that great and if you've been waiting with baited breath, you'll be dissapointed. It is probably about as good as Icewind Dale, but not nearly as good as BG2.

Re:Not really that great... by Laser+Lou · 2002-08-12 14:14 · Score: 1

My opinion about it is that NWN is all that (the game), and a bag of chips (DM, the editor).

Also, fortunately there is no reason to holdout. According to the site, the Linux client will be available for download.

--
No data, no cry
Re:Not really that great... by analog_line · 2002-08-12 14:16 · Score: 5, Insightful

The single player isn't that great, but the multiplayer, and the ability to make your own single player is what NWN is all about. The Bioware included single player adventure is basically a dog and pony show, showing off all the little gizmos you can set up with the toolset. Not much more than that.
Re:Not really that great... by Ummagumma · 2002-08-12 14:17 · Score: 1, Insightful

*sigh* another BG2 fan, who expected NWN to be BG3.

Newsflash: Its not *supposed* to be BG3.

The great thing about NWN is its DM client, and the Toolset (even though there is zero documentation for it, its easy enough to figure out).

NWN stands as a great game on its own. It was never meant to be BG3, but to be its own, self conatained game, which stands wonderfully on its own.

--
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:22 · Score: 0

And the main thing is, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. It's a game, for Linux. These days games for Linux are rarer than Mac games. What is important is that people who believe in the platform support it by buying the game, even if you don't play it. Give it to someone else if you don't like it, but speak with your $$$ to support Linux!
Re:Not really that great... by professortomoe · 2002-08-12 14:30 · Score: 1

I've heard lots of people rag on the storyline of NWN, and frankly, it isn't a masterpiece like the Baldur's Gate series, but it has it's own merits nonetheless. I found some parts of it amazingly done (Charwood anyone?) and the rest just all around well done. Whatever floats your boat tho.

--
If I wasn't so lazy, I'd have a sig.
Re:Not really that great... by PacoL250 · 2002-08-12 14:33 · Score: 1

I'll concede the fact that the single player campaign isn't all that. In fact, as you said, I haven't seen anything as good as Baldur's Gate II (in terms of single player RPG) in my entire "gaming career." As for the multi player portion, it seems you have yet to play it my friend...wow does it rule. I could go on and on, but I was playing an adventure made by one of my friends last night with about 4 other people and it's the closest thing, IMHO, to an actual D&D session. Granted, it's not the same thing, but for crying out loud, it's on the computer. A bit off-topic, but as for other role-playing games that are based on the d20 system that should be on the computer, I would love to see the new SpyCraft using the Shadowforce Archer campaign setting...that would be very neat.
Re:Not really that great... by realgone · 2002-08-12 14:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Pains me to say it, but you're spot on.
The story's not nearly compelling enough to cover for any flaws in the gameplay (as in BG2), and the gameplay's not nearly addictive enough to cover for any deficits in the story (as in IWD). Without that compensating effect, the end product ends up feeling a little tepid. Still fun, but not memorably so.
I wish I could say I just have some irrational bias against NWN, but -- well let's put it this way: The look on my face when I picked up the box at EB was that of a boy who's just decided to sneak the world's cutest stray puppy home from the park. And the look on my face after about 8 hours of playing was that of the same boy, finding out that the puppy just took care of some business in Mom's basket of clean laundry.
Re:Not really that great... by bwoodring · 2002-08-12 14:40 · Score: 1

I was going to get out the flamethrower to defend myself, when I realized that, at least in some respects, you are right. I guess I was hoping NWN would be BG3. Not literally, of course, but a spiritual successor if nothing else. It isn't the single player game is decent, but pretty repetetive. The problem with depending on a multi-player feature in an RPG is that most people you meet on the 'net are assholes. This is fine in Quake3, because you get to kill them, but in a cooperative type game, it's a killer. Oh well, I had some fun with NWN, but I really felt like it didn't live up to the hype.
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:46 · Score: 0

Oh poppycock.

Up until the release of NWN they were saying that the MAIN feature of the game was the single-player campaign. After it's release...well all the fanboys started saying "Oh but it's the multiplayer they focused on, not the single!" Again, rubbish.

When Quake 3 came out, people like yourself said the exact same thing: "Oh the game is pretty crappy, but it was really just a toolkit for modmakers! Wait for the mods!"
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:46 · Score: 0

And I say to you the same thing I say to all of the MMORPG morons who somehow find something wrong with NWN not being able MMORPG:

Maybe if you people would actually learn what the hell you're buying you might not be disappointed or confused when it turns out that your apparent uninformed assumptions about a product are mistaken.

NWN is not an MMORPG. And while there is a token campaign shipped with it, it's not a single player RPG, either.

It was never either of these things.

Jesus. My laptop doesn't make a very good howitzer. Why the hell doesn't my laptop make a very good howitzer? I am so disappointed that my laptop is not a very good howitzer.
Re:Not really that great... by mattdm · 2002-08-12 14:46 · Score: 2

I've had the most fun playing NWN with people I already know, but actually, I've also had really good luck just going online and connecting basically at random to an interesting looking server, meeting some folks, and dungeon-crawling a bit. There's also a few decent sites (Neverwinter Connections, for example) geared towards getting like-minded people together for games, and that seems to work pretty well.

Have you played with the toolkit at all, or at least downloaded a few modules? This is a game whose potential won't be realized all at once.
Re:Not really that great... by jsse · 2002-08-12 14:50 · Score: 1

NWN -> online game
BG2 -> not online game
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:53 · Score: 0

Have you played Morrowind? Admittedly, I haven't played BG2, but I think Morrowind is an excellent single-player game.
Re:Not really that great... by Nameles · 2002-08-12 14:54 · Score: 1

NWN doesn't officially support persistant worlds, and I don't think the mods are there yet.

BG2 can be played in multiplayer, just like NWN.
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:59 · Score: 0

I don't see what appealed about BG2 so much anyway, it wasn't particularly fun being bombarded with an assload of quests every time you talk to an NPC, /shrug maybe i missed something! :)

NWN single player does suck a bit, i was bored the first time i played it, sure wont be levelling another char by playing single player again (stopped after chapter 1 heh)

but the toolset is fairly cool and i'm sure multiplayer will be fun with a DM..

bit disappointed with the performance of the game - my systems runs every other game fine - most 3d games i use full detail at 1024*768 - with neverwinter its about half detail, and very jerky on win2k .. common prob i believe, gives the impression of a rushed game tho :( maybe the linux client will help this =)

like any game the gameplay is what counts, and with people designing modules and DM controlling them, it should turn out to be the best RPG yet!
Re:Not really that great... by reaper20 · 2002-08-12 15:03 · Score: 2

Neverwinter Connections saves that game. Matchmaking with real DMs and players, not the typical Diablo horde that infests the Gamespy chatrooms.
Re:Not really that great... by typeabstraction · 2002-08-12 15:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

it is a very different sort of game than those, surprisingly enough. for some that is good, for some that is bad.
Re:Not really that great... by paranoid.android · 2002-08-12 15:16 · Score: 1

Up until the release of NWN they were saying that the MAIN feature of the game was the single-player campaign

Who, exactly, was saying that?

Oh, right, you're just making that up. Sorry.
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:24 · Score: 0

So what. It doesn't support persistant worlds. Your character persists. That's all that matters.

Otherwise module creators will get all wrapped in up trying to create a huge, persistent world and the damn thing will never be ready for prime time.

Someone I know has been caught up in this already. Gonna have a "whole world." Gonna have a lot of the best players.

Yeah right. How long has the game been out now? Couple of months. How much play has actually occurred in this "whole world" ?

Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Screw persistent worlds. You want that? Go pay someone to play every month on a MMORPG with servers that are up 24/7.

Think you are gonna get a real fun experience on someone's cable connection? Fuhgedda bout it!
Re:Not really that great... by Teknogeek · 2002-08-12 15:25 · Score: 1

Morrowind's fun, I'll grant you that.

Until you get to the end.

Even the programmers feel that way. An interesting article got put up over on Player2Player, from one of the Morrowind developers. Among the problems with it are heavily compressed design times (all the faction quests had to be completed in three months, for example) and a lead designer who depended too much on real-life models (what was a Catholic Church clone doing in Tamriel, anyway?)

How is this on-topic? Well, perhaps it isn't. However, it still serves as a warning of how NOT to design your games. In the end, Morrowind is one of those games you'll look back on 5 years later and say "Man, that could have been SO good."

I just hope we don't end up feeling the same way about NWN.

--
I mod down anyone who uses M$ in their posts. I like to live on the edge.
Re:Not really that great... by willith · 2002-08-12 16:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

I have to take issue with anyone dismissing a storyline that takes 60 hours to complete and includes different plots for different character classes as nothing more than "a dog and pony show". I had a great time with the single-player campaign, and on its merit alone recommended the game to my father. He'll likely never play on-line, but he is immensely enjoying the single-player campaign.

I've played it through twice so far, with different characters each time, and I'll likely do it a third time. Perhaps I'll play on-line some day, but what I've experienced of on-line play over the last four years has destroyed what little bit of faith in humanity that my tech support day job hadn't already taken care of.
Re:Not really that great... by rabidcow · 2002-08-12 17:02 · Score: 2

The toolkit/engine isn't all that flexible tho. There's a lot of things that should be props, but are instead fixed parts of the landscape. (eg, crates and barrels, tables, chairs) Adding completely new objects that weren't in the single player game is rather difficult. You can't create balanced items with bonuses and negative effects, the negative effects don't change the cost or level requirements.
Re:Not really that great... by CableModemSniper · 2002-08-12 17:23 · Score: 1

Actually he's right. The single-player aspect was advertised as the main part of the game, with the MP just icing on the cake. Whether that conformed to reality OTOH...I've been following NWN for a while.

--
Why not fork?
Re:Not really that great... by Kashif+Shaikh · 2002-08-12 19:07 · Score: 1

The single player isn't that great

I humbly disagree. Unlike most of the other Bioware RPGs(BG1/2 are the ones I have played), NWN for some reason makes me feel like I'm playing the old Final Fantasy games.

The reason? A tighter story-line where most of the main quests are *actually* related to the main plot(duh), and the side quests help develop and deepen the plot. What I mean is in the previous BG games, you have hundreds of side quests, but they had nothing to do with the main plot, and neither did those quests develop/deepen the plot any further. In my opinion that made the game tedious in some cases, and even in one of the developer feedbacks they acknowledged this problem a lot in BG2.

Gone are the stupid quests like "Take my loaf of bread to my son is the southern city" or "Kill the big spiders in my house". In NWN, its more like "Investigate why my brother turned into a werewolf"...which in turn ties back to the plot of finding a hidden cult.

To me NWN has all the action/power-up/etc of Diablo2 coupled with traditional RPG gameplay.
Re:Not really that great... by paranoid.android · 2002-08-12 19:57 · Score: 1

Seriously, what were you guys reading then?

I haven't been following NWN's development from the beginning, but basically this is what I got from reading the FAQ, fansites, etc. in rough order of importance/hype:

1) "The toolset lets you make cool mods!"
2) "You can DM your mods as multiplayer games!"
3) "Oh yeah, there's this official campaign included, it was made with the toolset."

I didn't expect the OC to be BG2-quality, just enough to show off what you can do with the toolset. I think the fact that people are whining about the OC is mostly a case of having unrealistic/unwarranted expectations.
Re:Not really that great... by juhaz · 2002-08-13 00:13 · Score: 1

Hey, it's and RPG.

You don't play your pen and paper RPG with random assholes collected from the town, either, do you?
So why would you do that with NWN? Play with someone you already know, or do a bit searching for a decent adventurer group, no need to accept any random l337-kiddie.

There's got to be some good players in the world, I'd think good DM's are quite a bit harder to find.
Re:Not really that great... by kyrre · 2002-08-13 00:27 · Score: 1

Actually I think thats a completly useless suggestion. The Linux version will be availible as a free upgrade to those who allready have the windows version. Bioware will probably use statistics on number of people who use the linux version to connect to online games to figure out wheter linux ports of clients is something they will continue to do in the future. If you just buy the game and dont play you will look like a regular windows user playing single player campaign. So, save your money, or better give them to charity.
Re:Not really that great... by Rydia · 2002-08-13 00:35 · Score: 1

If you want it, you can script it. You forget they give you control over pretty much everything except item weight through aurora's scripting engine.
Re:Not really that great... by lithron · 2002-08-13 00:39 · Score: 1

Read this article on Monte Cook's website. You may want to search for the word "disadvantage".

Negative effects DO NOT always lower the caster level, nor the value of the item. Keep in mind that NWN tries (I don't own the game, so I know that it tries.. I just don't know how accurate it is) to be compatable with Wizards of the Coasts' 3rd Edition D&D rules.

Just my two cents
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 00:46 · Score: 0

I have to agree. BG2 is the king.

NWN was beautiful and the game mechanics were better over all but the story was no where near as enthralling as BG2.

Game play and mechanics only count for so much.
Re:Not really that great... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 01:47 · Score: 0

The problem with depending on a multi-player feature in an RPG is that most people you meet on the 'net are assholes.
That's why you're supposed to play NWN with friends -- in particular real life friends. Hopefully you have one or two of those?
Re:Not really that great... by Hornsby · 2002-08-13 04:04 · Score: 2

Disagree completely. Since getting NWN, I haven't even played online yet because I've been having so much fun playing the single player game. I also agree that for some strange reason NWN has some of the same feel as the old Final Fantasy games, but not in the sense that it's trying to copy Final Fantasy. It simply has a very distinct and unique feel that's extremely refreshing when compared to many of the more generic games that have been released in the same genera(i.e., dungeon siege).

If you've played through even the first chapter of the campaign, it's very clear that a LOT of thought went into making the single player game extremely dynamic and immersive. There are a good number of subplots that make it clear that the game was designed to be explored rather than played in the linear "forced march" style that is all too common these days. The NPCs react to you completely differently depending on your class / race / alignment combination, and you have a good enough degree of control over the conversation that you can avoid certain confrontations diplomatically if you wish to do so.

So, don't listen to people who disregard the campaigns as trivial add-ons when most of them haven't even played the game all the way through. IMHO, the game is worth it for the campaigns in and of themselves, and all the other stuff is just gravy!

BTW, if you really want to enjoy the game(single or multiplayer), I would suggest getting the camera angle hack, which allows you to zoom in and out to any degree you see fit. The default camera configuration really limits what you can see, and the artists have done a superb job on the details.

--
A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.
Re:Not really that great... by xoff00 · 2002-08-13 09:18 · Score: 1

The single player [game] isn't that great . . .

Like lots of others, I disagree. I think its much better than Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale.

--
...Xoff
Phineas J. Whoopie, you're the greatest!
Re:Not really that great... by bwoodring · 2002-08-13 12:00 · Score: 1

If I wanted to play with friends, why not get together and enjoy the camraderie as well? I stand by my point: the multi-player isn't very useful, and this game will *not* spawn a big community.

And what of the BSD client? by Masque · 2002-08-12 13:59 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Perhaps there's information about the OS X client as well? The wait's just as long over here....

Re:And what of the BSD client? by analog_line · 2002-08-12 14:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

Go over to MacSoft's webpage. They're the guys working on the Mac port.

http://www.wizworks.com/macsoft

Neverwinter is listed as a Summer/Fall 2002 (so probably Fall.. =) including the Toolset! I'm actually going to buy a seperate Mac copy just for the toolset, as it'll be easier for me to find time to work on mods on my iBook (hopefully TiBook by then) than having to sit at my desktop Win/Linux box.
Re:And what of the BSD client? by Masque · 2002-08-12 14:25 · Score: 1

Cool, thanks. A little additional research turned up this link where Al Schilling (product manager for MacSoft) gives a lengthy update on the progress of the project. He also mentions that he'll be watching that forum thread and attempting to answer questions. MacSoft++

Sigh by professortomoe · 2002-08-12 14:00 · Score: 1

OH well, at least it's eventually. I bought the game while I was on Windows (I've switched fully to Linux) and thought a few weeks after I'd be able to play Neverwinter Nights on Linux, and well, that still hasn't happened. I must say the progress of the Linux binary has gone a long way from "In the box support" to a Fall 2002 release. Nevertheless, I applaud BioWare for still making it, I just wish it had come out during the peak of my love of NWN. Oh well, keep up the good work BioWare!

--
If I wasn't so lazy, I'd have a sig.

I wonder by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:00 · Score: 0

I wonder if they make that top menu look like plain-text to make you think it downloads quickly.

Server needs some loving too ..... by reaper20 · 2002-08-12 14:02 · Score: 2

I'd rather see the Linux server piece get some more attention. I have basically given up running a full time linux NWN server - it's not very stable.

To the NWN community's credit, several neat tools are available to help and make things easier.

The sticky Linux server thread has alot of good information for this, including lots of good scripts that will restart the server if (I mean when) it decides to dump core.

Re:Server needs some loving too ..... by ObitMan · 2002-08-12 18:46 · Score: 0

server crashes must be a sporadic thing.
I ran the windows server with 6 players for a 4 hour game and had one crash during that time.
This was using an 1.4ghz AMD with 512M of RAM
When the linux server came out, same 6 players different module for about 4 hours. One crash during that time. this was running on a K6-2 300mhz with 600M of RAM on the latest stable version of Debian. this is with dnetc running on both machines.
We have gone for 6 hours without a crash on the linux box.
Overall I think it boils down to hardware andd the quality of the connections that the users have.

--
Who run Barter Town?
Re:Server needs some loving too ..... by kyrre · 2002-08-13 00:40 · Score: 1

Excuse me.. Once in 4 hours is sporadic? Thats unstable in my book. A crashing server really kills the mood in a RPG. You have to restart where you were 10 minutes before, if foresight enought to turn autosave on.

In live rpg I never had the house I was playing in never crashed down in my head, and if it did, and the DM survived, one could just start where one left of.

Bioware, fix buggy server please.
Re:Server needs some loving too ..... by ObitMan · 2002-08-13 21:52 · Score: 0

I think I didn't explain myself well.
I meant that the times it did crash was after 4 hours. I've left a respawning mod on all night and logged an average of 4 users and it didn't crash all night. I believe a lot of it has to do with hardware, modules and user connection.

--
Who run Barter Town?
Re:Server needs some loving too ..... by kyrre · 2002-08-14 01:45 · Score: 1

The server crash for me too. Debian stable, and fine hardware. No other programs keeps crashing on this computer. When playing with a friend of mine the other day the 1.22 server crashed after just one hour of up time. Happened only once thought through th entire night. Can't blame the connections either, as it was on 10 mbit lan.

I remember years when i hosted a cs server on linux. Cant remember it crashing once. And cs wasnt even a commercial release at that time.

I am patient though.

Oh please by inteller · 2002-08-12 14:03 · Score: 0, Flamebait

....where is that comment from the devs about "yeah we were gonna make NWN for linux until we found out all linux users are cheap bastards who never pay for anything"

Re:Oh please by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:31 · Score: 0

I paid $5 USD for your mothers sweet, sweet poontang last night. That cheap, drunken whore.
Re:Oh please by t0ny · 2002-08-13 03:44 · Score: 0

Its basically a PR thing. The sales of NWN on PCs is what is paying the bills; the Mac and Linux ports are basically Bioware's way of shutting up the very vocal babies on the internet. Its an expensive way of shutting them up, since it obviously wont even recover its costs, but oh well.

--
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

Taco by Tin+Weasil · 2002-08-12 14:08 · Score: 5, Funny

"God if only it were true- I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting. Gotta make sure I don't get that backwards."

This from the guy who always tells us that he can't preview quicktime files! Just reboot taco! Reboot and feel the power of the Darkside!

Re:Taco by bleckywelcky · 2002-08-12 14:47 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Ya know, I wonder if it would really be that hard for Taco if he were to spend $300 or $400 on a decent machine for Windows only, I'm sure he even has a capable machine sitting around. It doesn't take much, with an old 300 MHz (~$20) you could view Quicktime stuff just fine. And with a run-of-the-mill 1+ GHz (~$350) you could load up all sorts of Windows games and whatnot, at least for preview and mild playing purposes. Heck, I just put together two 1.47 GHz machines for two family members for about ~$500 each, with DDR, UATA 133, the whole deal. I think Taco is taking the 3V1L M$ thing too far. That, or he must be absolutely, positively, scrumdiddlyumptiously poor right now.
Re:Taco by MisterBlister · 2002-08-12 16:37 · Score: 2

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the fact that Taco actually has a beefy Windows-dedicated gaming machine but he won't admit it (and even arguably lies about it) here on Slashdot to avoid the wrath of the Linux-or-nothing crowd.
Re:Taco by Naikrovek · 2002-08-12 16:38 · Score: 3, Funny

Christ, even I have two computers. Don't tell us you've wasted all your money already.
Re:Taco by JanneM · 2002-08-12 20:11 · Score: 1

You should check his diary. Hes _is_ trying to put together a gaming machine - to no avail as of yet, alas. /Janne

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Taco by tmark · 2002-08-12 23:50 · Score: 2

I have a sneaking suspicion that he HAS at least two computers, one running Windows, just like at least one of the other members of the /. editorial staff who claims to never run Windows but then makes references to Windows games. I conjecture they are claiming they don't run Windows because it makes for better Linux-PR to put on a happy face that says "I don't (really) run Windows".
Re:Taco by tmark · 2002-08-12 23:54 · Score: 2

Just *why* would anyone want to spend time reading Taco's diary ? I imagine it would read something like this....I always thought the stories in Forum were phony. Then last night, at an anime festival, 2 buxom Japanese girls with the widest blue eyes you've ever seen, sat next to me...
Re:Taco by JanneM · 2002-08-13 00:13 · Score: 1

No reason, I guess. I just pointed out that his diary in fact has dealt extensively with his attempts to build a Windows gaming machine - something that was rather topical to the post I responded to.

/Janne

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Taco by gimpboy · 2002-08-13 00:30 · Score: 1

how hard is it to build a windows gaming machine? you spend a couple hours ordering parts, then you spend a couple hours or so putting the thing to gether. then you spend the next day rebooting it over and over again until everything is installed. i know the guy is busy, but it's not that hard to do.

--
-- john
Re:Taco by Sloppy · 2002-08-13 02:44 · Score: 2

This would be a complete waste. There may be some valid arguments against CrossOver, WineX, etc, but if the alternative is to reboot or have a dedicated Dozebox, then it's still the lesser evil.
There aren't many reasons for getting Windows, anymore. Wine-related projects are getting close to making it obsolete.

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.

NWN was a let down by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:10 · Score: 1

Was it just me or was anyone else let down by the lack of a story line? I don't care what people say about the protagonist dying and ruining baldurs but that game was the most challenging hell Baldurs is the reason why I went shit in my senior years of high school. I couldn't care less if they ported NWN to Linux. Linux isn't a workstation it's a server so why do so many people out there dream that it is going to be used by all recognise that people don't want to use it if they can't see the windows start button or they can't find their Office desktop shortcuts they'll chuck a hissy fit

Re:NWN was a let down by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:18 · Score: 0

> Was it just me or was anyone else let down by the lack of a story line?

I wouldn't know, the $60 box is still sitting on my shelf!
Re:NWN was a let down by ctembreull · 2002-08-12 14:41 · Score: 1

> Linux isn't a workstation it's a server

Linux, my dear fellow, is whatever you want it to be on any given day.
One only wishes that those pontificating against Linux on the desktop would stop getting in the way of those of us who are using it - and using it productively - on the desktop.

--

Chris Tembreull
"My karma just ran over your dogma."
Re:NWN was a let down by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:49 · Score: 0

No.

Since the presence of a default campaign was a token gesture meant mostly to showcase the capabilities of the toolkit provided with the game, I never cared a whit about the story in what was never intended to be much more than a demo of the engine.

"Linux isn't a workstation"... Right-o.

Funny, my Linux "workstation" did not suddenly disappear. Nor did my Linux desktop suddenly go away.

Funny. Your preconceived notions about both NWN and Linux appear to be mistaken.

Insert my shock and outrage here.
Re:NWN was a let down by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:54 · Score: 0

It's called a "run-on sentance". Perhaps you should have spent more time in english class instead of in front of "Baldur's"...
Re:NWN was a let down by glwtta · 2002-08-12 15:35 · Score: 3, Funny

I don't really like NWN either why do so many people insist that punctuation should be used when writing punctuation is for books and medical publications why doesn't everyone recognize that retarded slashdot posters will never use it since all they can do is giggle like little school girls when they hear the word period

--
sic transit gloria mundi
Re:NWN was a let down by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 18:44 · Score: 0

'Linux, my dear fellow, is whatever you want it to be on any given day.'

except a gaming machine
Re:NWN was a let down by aonaran · 2002-08-13 01:29 · Score: 1

True, although not because it couldn't be.
There are several games that have been written for Linux and run well on it.
It's really just a matter of economics and chicken before egg syndrome. Users are reluctant to go to an operating system that doesn't have the software they want and programmers are reluctant to program for a platform that doesn't have the users.

Gamers are Windows Users. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:11 · Score: 1, Insightful

Everquest and NWN are windows games, and a lot of gamers are just that, not also IT folks, program designers, etc. Windows, then, is just a means to the end, the game itself. Some gamers I have come in contact with don't want anything to do with other OS's, since they are only there for the game, not to fiddle with the OS. Linux, being a wonderful playground for us OS fiddlers, ( and indeed it is) won't be accepted by this kind of gamer. Whatever Everquest ran on would be accepted, but once ported to Windows, then it's Windows only for these gamers. These gamers talk very little about the technical side of the game, only the night's killing, etc, like the game was some kind of primative soap-opera, rather than a technical achievement to fiddle with. We have heard some talk that Everquest is an addiction, in and of itself.

Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by Golias · 2002-08-12 15:23 · Score: 1

You are correct. "Gamers", as in "people who buy their computer just to play games on it" are Windows users, for the obvious reason that their favorite games were either Windows-only or Windows-first.
However, there are those of us who purchased our computers with other considerations in mind, who would also like to play games on them.
Granted, that tends to be the exception these days, now that you can build a more-or-less usable game PC for about 400 bucks. Most Mac geeks I know who like games have a PC on the next desk over for gaming, and most Linux gamers either do the same, or else dual boot.
Personally, I found this set-up ideal back when I was into EQ. I could pull up maps, guild websites, and game info on my Mac's web browser while still keeping one eye on the game itself over on the PC monitor. Other times I could work on various projects on my Mac while my character camped some remote spawn point. Then, of course, there were all those hacks for reading the server traffic so you could know more than the average bear about the game data...
If I was one of those Mac or Linux Zealots, I suppose I would hate the gaming gap... but since I don't really have much of a problem with owning a dedicated "game PC", it's really kind of a non-issue to me.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 16:01 · Score: 2

"If I was one of those Mac or Linux Zealots, I suppose I would hate the gaming gap... but since I don't really have much of a problem with owning a dedicated "game PC", it's really kind of a non- issue to me."

Sadly, Linux Zealots are so anti-MS that they won't buy that as an option. Pity, really: they're shooting themselves in the foot with that attitude. From a practicality point of view, one should choose their OS/Computer based on what their needs are.

If one refuses to dual-boot Win2k on a Linux box, then they're also refusing to have good game support. If they can accept that, that's fine. However, Bill Gates doesn't care and most of us don't want to listen to stale anti-MS sentiments. At that point, it's your choice. Your discomfort is your own.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by _Sprocket_ · 2002-08-12 16:21 · Score: 2

I used to be rather happy with Win2K; its the only Windows that runs at my home. I rather dislike XP and I especially disliked the politics around it. None of that for me or my family.

And then Win2K's SP3 hit.

It is apparent that ANY involvement with Microsoft in the future will include the same legal attitude. And I'd prefer to have nothing to do with it. Sadly, it looks like Win2K is on its way out.

I've already got some nice games for Linux. In the future, I'll have some more. I can live with that. And I don't have to stick my fingers in my ears and ignore whats going on around me to do it.

Its not zealotry. Its not stale rhetoric. It is, in fact, making my choice as a consumer to protect my best interest.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by _Sprocket_ · 2002-08-12 17:01 · Score: 2

By your definition... gamers don't give a damn what they're using. Be it Windows, a PS2, or even Linux. If the game runs, they're happy.

I don't see any reason why gamers couldn't move to Linux if they so chose to. I don't expect a sudden flood of Linux converts; non-technical users tend to stay with their old install base (witness the entrenched win9x architecture). But eventually people move on - be it to the next version of their familiar OS or to completely alien environments.

I run Linux on my home network as well as Windows. My household has had no problems with getting around GNOME and KDE to use whatever Linux apps they want (and they're not overly technical users). But they do play a fair amount of games and so they're mostly in Windows. If these same games were offered for Linux - they would have no problem abandoning Windows. Although, it would probably be at my prodding.

What we're ending up with is the same old "Linux on the desktop" discussion. Whether it becomes commonplace for the average user makes for an interesting discussion. But really... when it comes down to it... I'm not overly concerned with it. I already have Linux on my desktop. I'm happy with it. And having NWN to add to my (small) list of games is a Good Thing.

NWN for Linux isn't necissarily cool because it opens the floodgates to Linux on the desktop. Its cool because its something I, and it seems a lot of others, want.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 17:20 · Score: 2

"Its not zealotry. Its not stale rhetoric. It is, in fact, making my choice as a consumer to protect my best interest."

May I ask what about SP3 bugs ya? (I haven't kept up on service packs as of late, did they pull some TaC shit?) Im just curious why you made that decision. Don't worry, I have no intention of arguing with ya or telling you that you shouldn't have switched. (I have no business telling you that in the first place.) I just wanna know what you know in case I should be looking to move to Mac.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by _Sprocket_ · 2002-08-12 18:04 · Score: 2

May I ask what about SP3 bugs ya?

The language in the EULA for SP3 includes a lot of the same language that showed up in WMP6.x (I think that's the right version) and falls in line with the overall theme of WinXP's EULA. Basically, its the right to modify the OS even if it causes something to no longer work. It seems to be a precurser to force-fed DRM "features".

Now... I could accept an argument for it with WMP. That is, after all, a media player. And DRM, etc, is a part of that. But I what I can't see is this being a part of bugfixes for Win2K. After all, the Service Packs don't include the latest DirectX.

I could have sworn Slashdot ran a story about it. Poke around. Shouldn't be hard to find someone talking about the issue - be it Slashdot, the Register, or somewhere else.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 18:16 · Score: 2

Ouch, that's shitty. Yeah I'll haveta look into that, thank you.

Cheers man.
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by jooniqzb1tch · 2002-08-12 18:17 · Score: 1

this is from a bugtraq post :

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick FitzGerald [mailto:nick@virus-l.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:44 PM
To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com; full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 now available.
Colin Stefani wrote:
Be sure to read the new EULA/privacy statement for Windows update, it has an interesting portion about how Windows Update and Automatic Update (which gets installed with SP3) can, by agreeing to this license, send the following pieces of info to Microsoft, this was posted on the MS focus list by Javier Sanchez:
"With the latest version of Windows Update (essentially a mandatory download and now part of SP3) you consent to sending the following information to Microsoft:
* Operating-system version number and Product Identification number
* Internet Explorer version number
* Version numbers of other software
* Plug and Play ID numbers of hardware devices"
Re:Gamers are Windows Users. by rseuhs · 2002-08-13 04:44 · Score: 2

By your definition... gamers don't give a damn what they're using. Be it Windows, a PS2, or even Linux. If the game runs, they're happy.
We'll talk about that in 2 years when Microsoft has "upgraded" anybody they could catch with DRM.

unless by sploreg · 2002-08-12 14:12 · Score: 2, Informative

they improve it, I won't get it for linux. Doesn't matter what system you run it on, the AI will still be horrible.

Re:unless by Juanvaldes · 2002-08-12 16:20 · Score: 1

now I'm just going with what I heard (hell I thought the linux client was already out) was that you still had to buy the windows version then download the linux librarys for it to work.
But that is just what I heard...
Re:unless by Slynkie · 2002-08-12 22:46 · Score: 2

So, can't you script your own?
Re:unless by Jugalator · 2002-08-12 22:49 · Score: 2

Yeah, let's just gather and fix Bioware's mistakes. Woo, I'm filled with enthusiasm to get this right!

--
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Re:unless by SilkBD · 2002-08-13 02:07 · Score: 0

It's not a mistake. They gave us the tools to make our own world with our own characters. That's more of what NWN's focus is... They gave us the tools to create our own AI... how can you find fault in that?

--
00101010

Camera angle in NWN has been fixed! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:22 · Score: 0

I was just about to type up a long flame against Bioware's practices, because of the fact that they would not re-write the user interface....specifically the dreaded camera angle restriction. I had actually quit playing the game because of this reason.

I went to Bioware's site to find the forum link(with the other 10,000 complaints against the horrible camera angle restriction) and the first post says that the angle has been hacked! Apparently a very talented dissatisfied customer with a few drops of common sense (clearly not a Bioware employee) put a decompiler to work and made the interface useable! Rejoice!

Here's the link:

Bioware's camera angle thread.

Re:Camera angle in NWN has been fixed! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:06 · Score: 0

hey that link crashed my mozzila great awsome thanks
Re:Camera angle in NWN has been fixed! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 08:30 · Score: 0

a very talented dissatisfied customer with a few drops of common sense put a decompiler to work and made the interface useable!

He then made the mistake of telling people about it, and the black helicopters swarmed his house..

Seriously, though.. isn't that against the EULA?

Well.... by Skyshadow · 2002-08-12 14:23 · Score: 2

Okay, it's a step in the right direction to have more games on Linux, but could they fix the glaring problems first?

--
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.

Re:Well.... by glwtta · 2002-08-12 15:11 · Score: 2

they are - no linux port is a glaring problem.
do your worst ;)

--
sic transit gloria mundi

Backwards? by sharkey · 2002-08-12 14:24 · Score: 4, Funny

I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting. Gotta make sure I don't get that backwards.

Yeah, it would suck to reboot and read your email without slaughtering innocent villagers.

--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.

Re:Backwards? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:58 · Score: 0

Aren't you supposed to be funnier, with a low uid?
Re:Backwards? by Jonny+Ringo · 2002-08-13 04:08 · Score: 2

I saw it as

I could slaughter the reboot and read my villagers.

Pre-ordered and excited by dennisr · 2002-08-12 14:32 · Score: 0

Well I have already pre-ordered my copy from tux games and am excited.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with a month??!?!? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 14:36 · Score: 0

BWAHAHA!

They aren't Americans!

They are Canucks. So you
ought to broaden your rant,
to be a little more
inclusive.

Wooo! by kingkade · 2002-08-12 14:36 · Score: 3, Funny

"Let's hear it for the Northern hemisphere, the most happenin' hemisphere in the world!..." -simpsons

It might be a lesson for you Americans...

BTW, Bioware is a Canadian company.

--
why run from Vincenzo?

Re:Wooo! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:24 · Score: 0

it's the western, not northern.
Re:Wooo! by Hrothgar+The+Great · 2002-08-12 16:29 · Score: 3, Informative

It's the Western Hemisphere, as my anonymous friend pointed out, and it's the "dancinest" hemisphere instead of most happenin'. Just thought you'd like to know.
Re:Wooo! by kingkade · 2002-08-12 16:40 · Score: 1

Yeah, but i had to change it, you know, so it made sense in context.

dancinest, hehe, ok I totally dropped the ball on that one.

--
why run from Vincenzo?

Re:Article facts by Apostata · 2002-08-12 14:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Firstly, I'm not sure what an "NVN" client is (Nevervinter Nights?...for our German guests?), secondly there *is* a webpage, thirdly, go to www.tuxgames.com and see the DEVELOPER-GIVEN release date: Nov 16.

Don't talk to me about *facts* until you read the bloody article. Isn't there a movie out there you should be boycotting?

--

This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker

Re:What the fuck is wrong with a month??!?!? by Tom+Dunne · 2002-08-12 14:44 · Score: 1

Bioware's not in the United States, cupcake. Don't let that get in the way of your smartass anti-America comments, though...

Yeah, wouldn't want to get that backwards... by Fugly · 2002-08-12 14:44 · Score: 5, Funny

... 'cause then you'd be... um.... reading your villagers and um.... slaughtering your e-mail... yeah... that makes sense.....

Re:Yeah, wouldn't want to get that backwards... by nukem1999 · 2002-08-12 14:55 · Score: 0

Maybe email the villagers and reading the slaughtered reboot?
Re:Yeah, wouldn't want to get that backwards... by Xenographic · 2002-08-12 16:39 · Score: 1

Well, since so much email is spam, I can't say that I'd mind slaughtering it if only I knew how... until then, there's always uce@ftc.gov, I suppose... :]
Re:Yeah, wouldn't want to get that backwards... by Kashif+Shaikh · 2002-08-12 19:18 · Score: 1

... 'cause then you'd be... um.... reading your villagers and um.... slaughtering your e-mail... yeah... that makes sense.....

Are you talking about Black and White? IIRC, it has the ability to open your address book and assign the names in it to your little villagers:)

Its even better, as you get to slaughter your email buddies in a tomagotchi-like world. Perfect for the afternoon deathmatch at the office.

Demographics by DavidLeblond · 2002-08-12 14:46 · Score: 0

I'm surprised that they didn't plan Linux as one of the premiere platforms. One of their major demographics is the geek community right? One of Linux's major demographics is the geek community right? Doesn't that just make sense?

It would make sense if... by sterno · 2002-08-12 14:58 · Score: 2

It might make sense to make Linux a premiere platform except for a couple things:

1) more than 90% of the market runs windows
2) of those who run linux most of them (though I have no idea what percentage), run Windows as well

Generally speaking gamers know most games are released for Windows primarily or exclusively. Therefore gamers all own Windows machines for this purpose. Frankly it's one of the only reasons I still run windows.

--
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service

Re:It would make sense if... by glwtta · 2002-08-12 15:17 · Score: 2

there are few games for linux because most everyone runs windows, though quite a few of them only run windows because there are few games for linux, therefore it makes no sense to write games for linux... well I for one agree with that argument - things, especially such things as consumer markets just never change.
I mean, a different OS (with few games for it) becoming more popular, and in the process (not before, not after, but continously and at the same time) getting more games released for it... yeah, that's just outlandish and no such nonsense can ever happen.

--
sic transit gloria mundi
Re:It would make sense if... by geekoid · 2002-08-12 15:24 · Score: 2

I would love to see the effects in the industry if ID released a kick ass game that was Linux only.

I lso feel Steve Jobs should pay ID to make a mac only kick ass game. I bet his sales would increase.

I know it won't happen, but I find it to be an interesting thing to speculate about.

I feel people are getting pretty fed up with windows, but feel trapped by lack of easy to install portable apps under linux. The time for a big move is starting to get ripe.
note:
Yes I find them easy but the average public needs to install cd, automatically come up with a window that steps them through the process, and puts an icon in the meanu. When they run the app, they have to be able to do half of what they need pretty intuitivly.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:It would make sense if... by Derek+S · 2002-08-12 18:42 · Score: 1

I doubt it would make much difference. id's business is making 3D engines. It has been a while since their games have been compelling enough that anyone would change operating systems just to play them.

Anyway, Carmack has already been burned by the Linux retail game market. You'd have to give id a lot of money to make a Mac-only game. And even more money to make a Linux-only game. And you'd probably have to pay all of the production, distribution, marketing and technical support costs.

In order to become a mainstream gaming platform, Linux will probably have to go through a number of changes that simply won't fly with the hardcore users who do most of the development. Off the top of my head:

1) One distribution (probably Red Hat) in use by 90% or more of home users.

2) Windows-style detection and installation of binary drivers. And a reasonably stable binary driver API.

3) One desktop environment reigning supreme. Doesn't matter which.

4) OpenGL 2.0, and much faster promotion of standards by the ARB. Or native DirectX support at the same level as Windows.

5) Widespread hardware support for OpenAL.

6) Better support for USB controllers, including force-feedback devices.

7) Other stuff I'm not thinking of because I need to go to sleep.

Anyway, I do most of my work on Linux, but if wanted to develop commercial games for a Unix platform I would have to choose Mac OS X.
Re:It would make sense if... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 22:32 · Score: 0

All good points, but the market must increase about 200 fold before even a small game market can be sustained on primarily linux sales.
Re:It would make sense if... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 23:10 · Score: 0

Well, the distro doesn't matter. compliance with LSB is needed (and Loki's installer worked damn well in most cases)
Binary drivers? Well they compile to binary. What's that one about? NVidia?
One desktop. Why? To put the icon up? All you need is an API to say "please put this program in this group, and you can use this icon". As it is, if the binary is in /usr/local/bin then all you need is a command line and run "mygame". Paths are a wonderful thing, as longas you don't have "Program Files/App" for everything....
Well, OpenGL has to be out first. Makes no sense, like #2. Oh, and for DirectX, look at SDL. or Blender. or....
Support for OpenAL is OK, but all you need are drivers. GAMES need to support OpenAL. Or SDL. Creative and Turtle Beach are good for info for drivers
Again, DRIVERS for USB force feedback (when will MS produce enough info for that?!?!) A non-event really

And what the F*CK is all this about "Mac OSX --- spooge" that keeps turning up. Worse than MS/Linux flamefests on ZDNet. Give it a piggin rest, PLEASE!

Oh, thanks for your time.
Re:It would make sense if... by Derek+S · 2002-08-13 11:29 · Score: 1

You make it sound as if the dearth of decent drivers were a small matter. It's the second biggest obstacle to Linux's acceptance (lack of certain types of software is probably the biggest), and poor support for binary drivers is compounding the problem.

or you could run Windows 2K by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:03 · Score: 0

and do both, and not have to run that piece of shit Wine, either.

What about the Apple II? by bsharitt · 2002-08-12 15:05 · Score: 1

I can't find anything about The Apple II port. Surely this is wrong.

Re:What about the Apple II? by teamhasnoi · 2002-08-12 15:11 · Score: 2

Ya know, I *still can't get Karateka to work on my IIgs.
Dammit.
Re:What about the Apple II? by G-funk · 2002-08-12 15:15 · Score: 1

Karateka worked fine on a IIgs, there must be something wrong with your disc.

--
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Re:What about the Apple II? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 20:46 · Score: 0

Ya know, I *still can't get Karateka to work on my IIgs.

Karateka had a problem with the roms that came in the new //e's and //c. Unless you had and old //e or ][+ you were fucked. If you have a way to emulate the older roms maybe it'll work for you. Karateka came out well before the GS (//x as we used to call it) came out. You may run into some similar problems with older Apple II games.

Apple II's rocked at the time though.

numb
(former Apple ][+ owner since 1982)

Attn: Alanis Morissette by big.ears · 2002-08-12 15:06 · Score: 2

It's called a "run-on sentance". Perhaps you should have spent more time in english class instead of in front of "Baldur's"...

For those keeping score, the above retort is officially ironic.

Re:Attn: Alanis Morissette by geekoid · 2002-08-12 15:51 · Score: 2

but is it as iroinic as "ronald reagan" airport?

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Golias · 2002-08-12 15:10 · Score: 1

Not to mention the fact that it's kinda sad that he can't figure out how to check his e-mail from the Windows side of his dual-boot system.

Even if you hate Outlook (rightly so), there are lots of Free-as-in-beer options for this sort of thing, and even a few Free-as-in-Stallman-would-be-mostly-okay-with-it options out there.

Hell, for that matter, since you are probably using one of the /. boxen as your main mail server, just run an SSH client (they have those for Windows, ya know) and log into the server itself.

Besides, you are playing a game on a closed-source operating system already, so it's not you're religious about the GPL or something. Sheesh.

--

Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

Re:Article facts by analog_line · 2002-08-12 15:15 · Score: 2

"developer given" release dates are worth about as much as the molecules of phosphor that you read them from.

In other words, next to nothing. Believe it when you have the client on your machine and are running it. not before.

This will be a good thing by TrollsamaBinLaden · 2002-08-12 15:19 · Score: 1

Imagine what kinds of adventures a bunch of tech savvy Linux users would come up with. In general you guys appear to have more of a devotion to getting things done and done right then most of the Windows crazy peeps I know. Imagine how many more modules will be designed and improved. This can do nothing but enrich the game and make it more of a success. I am happy with many of the modules already, but I must say I am curious to see the adventures the slashdot community can help with. Quest for the golden Taco!, CowboyNeal as an ancient polkadot dragon perhaps...think of the possibilities!

Yeah, I know, shoot me I'm at msn.com

Reboot? by sfennell90 · 2002-08-12 15:21 · Score: 1

"I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting."

I played NWN on a Win2K box and didn't reboot for over two weeks. So what are you talking about? Oh I forget, I'm talking to a /.er

Re:Reboot? by TrollsamaBinLaden · 2002-08-12 15:29 · Score: 1

I have never played NWN on my Win2k box but even on my 98 box, I don't have problems with it. I will tell you something I find amazing though. I have used Win2k on my box without a single crash and have been running it almost a year. I have also used redhat on my old amd450 without a hitch as well. Perhaps I am just really lucky, or I just tempted fate. I would hate to go home to see my win2k box give me as many blue screens as it thinks it owes me.
Re:Reboot? by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 15:30 · Score: 2

"I played NWN on a Win2K box and didn't reboot for over two weeks. So what are you talking about? Oh I forget, I'm talking to a /.er"

I think most MS people that jumped ship to Linux did so after Windows 98. I don't blame them for that. Windows 98 was horrid. Sadly, they missed Windows 2000 in the process. Pity, if they hadn't, they'd have more respect for the Windows NT line.

In the mean time, we'll have to put up with stale 'herherher Windows always crashes, give me a +1 Funny' jokes. Oh, if MS made something shitty 4 years ago, it stands to reason they couldn't possibly have improved.
Re:Reboot? by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 15:47 · Score: 2

Err oops, yeah I think he meant that too. Doh. heh.

Thanks for pointing that out. What are the odds of somebody on /. using 'reboot' and 'Windows' in the same sentence without aiming for a +1 Funny?
Re:Reboot? by _Sprocket_ · 2002-08-12 16:39 · Score: 2

I prefer Linux. But I do run Win2k when I need Windows. Win2k is, by far, the best thing put out my Microsoft. However, it is not without fault. But it is much more stable and makes a pretty decent gaming platform if your hardware has drivers for it (I was suprised to find out because of Win2k's marketing, isn't always guarenteed).

Are the BSOD jokes outdated? Well. They're a bit dated, perhapse. But not completely out of line. There is a rather hefty legacy install of the Win9x line - one that Microsoft extended with release of WinME. Win2K is not infallible. And WinXP can be amazingly horrid at times. Microsoft has a certain history developed over its lifetime and not just during a small 4 year period - otherwise we'd all still be making Bob jokes.

Having said all that - there are so many other issues around Microsoft that I'm suprised the BSOD/crash jokes are the one thing that concerns you the most.
Re:Reboot? by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 17:28 · Score: 2

"Having said all that - there are so many other issues around Microsoft that I'm suprised the BSOD/crash jokes are the one thing that concerns you the most."

Heh. The only reason that BSOD jokes 'concern' me relates to something you said here. Windows has all kinds of silly issues. BSOD's are virtually gone. Win2k has wonderful uptime. So people using Win2k jokes are so sick and tired of hearing stale jokes about Windows crashing. It's like saying "Theater's better than movies because live actors are in color."

For example, one guy used to have a sig that read: "I left a Windows XP CD in my car overnight. The next morning I noticed that somebody broke into my car and left two more of them." Heh that one cracked me up. Microsoft continually generates comedic opportunities, but the Linux zealots out there or so unaware that the world has changed since 1995 that we still get the same old stupid jokes. As with the movies metaphor I used earlier, they sound about as informed about Windows when they make that joke.

To put it simply: Enough of the blue screen jokes, let's move on to some refreshing MS material.

I appreciate that ya didn't make the same assumption most do. Im so sick of people saying that Microsoft's paying me to say nice things about them. Frankly, I just want more intelligent comments and less idiotic ones that seem to always get +1's.
Re:Reboot? by _Sprocket_ · 2002-08-12 18:29 · Score: 2

To put it simply: Enough of the blue screen jokes, let's move on to some refreshing MS material.

OK. I can buy that. While I don't think the issue is completely put to rest, I can see how stability is now improved to the point of being minor compared to the other issues out there.

Maybe someone needs to write up a "Smart Basher's Guide to Windows" and denote BSOD jokes as "deprecated".

I appreciate that ya didn't make the same assumption most do. Im so sick of people saying that Microsoft's paying me to say nice things about them. Frankly, I just want more intelligent comments and less idiotic ones that seem to always get +1's.

Hey - I can believe that Microsoft has gen-u-ine fans. Even if they're misguided. ;) And not every positive Microsoft statement is paid for. Which, of course, doesn't mean astroturfing campaigns aren't happening. Nonetheless, there IS genuine support.

When I started my IT career, I couldn't understand the Mac zealots. Then I began to work with a few and began to understand their gripe (even if I never warmed to MacOS personally). As my career progressed, I got tired of Windows and its issues and redirected my focus towards Unix.

Oddly enough, a good friend of mine (working many of the same IT environments I was) introduced me to Linux before I made that jump to Unix. He is still firmly in the Windows camp and we occasionally banter back and forth over MS vs Linux (as well as offer help for Linux/Unix or Windows issues accordingly).

I noticed a couple things. First, Windows supporters are not all technically blind idiots... and some of them aren't entirely misguided. Secondly, I found myself dangerously close to being like those Mac Zealots who used to puzzle me so much.

The world is much more complex than the zealots on either side of any issue would make it seem. :)
Re:Reboot? by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 18:51 · Score: 2

True true...

"I noticed a couple things. First, Windows supporters are not all technically blind idiots... and some of them aren't entirely misguided. Secondly, I found myself dangerously close to being like those Mac Zealots who used to puzzle me so much."

I'll tell ya something: I useta have a thing against Mac fanatics as well. I understand their point of view today.

You're right, though, not all of us are technically blind idiots. I use Windows 2000 because it's the best choice for me. As my title suggests, I use Lightwave, and I'm heavy into Photoshop and After Effects. Those are unavailable on Linux, and on Mac they don't have near the plugin support. Funny thing is, I'm not having stability issues. I haven't lost a render to Windows. But these pre-conceptions about Windows 2000 make people think that Im, at best, a masochist. They don't understand that it'd cost me close to $10,000 to get the software I need to make a Linux box do what I'm doing with my Windows box today with only $2,500 worth of software.

I aint no dummy. My computer has an IDE drive, 5 scsi, and two firewire drives. It's a dual processor machine with a gig of RAM (all assembled myself, I didn't buy this thing from Gateway...). It has two network cards, a scanner (well, ok, USB scanners aren't a challenge to install...), a DVD-RAM, and a CD Burner (Seperate unit from the DVD-RAM). I don't have stability issues. As a matter of fact, I can easily go a couple of weeks without a reboot. (it's considerably longer when I don't play games... heh.) Trust me when I say: If Windows 2000 was so painful to use, I wouldn't be running it now. I'd be out of a job.

In any case, I'm not out to tell the Linux world that Windows 2000 is great. The only reason I'm venting all this to you is that I hope at least somebody here understands that I am not misguided, I'm not misinformed, and I'm not an MS zealot. For me, Windows 2000 is the perfect fit. There are people who have very similar jobs that I do who feel the exact same way.

In any case, I've gone around this block too many times. Thanks for listening. Being understood is a nice feeling.

Cheers, man.
Re:Reboot? by windlord · 2002-08-12 23:33 · Score: 1

Judging by your above post, then WinXP should prolly be known as "Return of the BSOD"
Re:Reboot? by qurk · 2002-08-13 04:09 · Score: 1

I think I can kinda relate to you as well. I think I came across to you as a close minded linux zealout, but actually I never have had a problem with microsoft except when it's software does incredibly stupid things (like rudely rewriting the hard drive MBR or reformatting the slave 40 gig hd as 1 2 gig partition and leaving the master 2 gig hard drive alone). Also I am poor and have found linux being free (except for wanting to support a distrobution I like and use) is a lot better for me than paying $250 for the newest windows with all the EULA's which would probably make my desire to use linux on another partition illegal or something :) The last windows I bought was win98 and I still have it on a partition, so I'm not a total hypocrite :) Just thought I'd take the opportunity to apologize for jumping all over your ass for dissing linux one time hehe.
Re:Reboot? by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-13 13:41 · Score: 1

No worries man, s'all cool.

Good day. :)
Re:Reboot? by Joe+Tie. · 2002-08-13 15:20 · Score: 1

To put it simply: Enough of the blue screen jokes, let's move on to some refreshing MS material.

Heck, I use Linux and I'm sick of them too. It ranks right up there with cracks about how hard linux is to install, or the one button mouse for macs. Even more annoying though, is that BSOD jokes give a bad impression of non windows users as a whole, and distract people from real issues.

--
Everything will be taken away from you.

CmdrTaco by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:27 · Score: 0

"I could slaughter villagers and read my email
without rebooting"

So I take it from this that CmdrDumbFuck relies
on some sort of graphical email client?

Go back to the valley, poser.

Ummmm by Hilleh · 2002-08-12 15:30 · Score: 1

Yeah, I only submitted about 5 different things on this when the small but fervent forum community was fighting to get Bioware to give us any information on the Linux client at all!! Where in the hell was Slashdot then?
We could have used you! We went through 11 20+ page threads pressing for linux client info before this happened. Why does /. only step in after the smoke has cleared?

Re:Ummmm by Johnny+O · 2002-08-12 17:26 · Score: 1

I was one of them too. They never stepped up cause there was NO INFORMATION till the 11th thread. Too bad 'cause I cancelled my order at tux games by the 10th thread. NOW there is a page and some info. I'll wait till it's on the $10 rack because of that lack of support for Linux at the box release time.
Re:Ummmm by Rydia · 2002-08-13 00:53 · Score: 1

I wonder if anyone even put in a story about TGLCT. It wasn't even mentioned in this article....

Re:What the fuck is wrong with a month??!?!? by glwtta · 2002-08-12 15:31 · Score: 2

that post was still not constructive enough, you should've added something about the relative merits of linux and windows

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sic transit gloria mundi

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Chandon+Seldon · 2002-08-12 15:32 · Score: 1

Why would he want to split his email between a random Windows program and his comphy unix mail reader?

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-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.

I actually really enjoyed the single player by Vicegrip · 2002-08-12 15:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

Clearly the intent of the game is to be a kind of nexus where people build worlds and come to.

It's not meant to be a play-once-and-throw-away game, so they didn't put all their eggs in the campaign it shipped with.
Otherwise put: please show me the world builder that accompagnied BG2.

Highlights:
- Entire official AD&D third edition rules support.
- Gorgeous 3d graphics on par with anything else out there. In this alone, it outshines bg2.
- Ships with a fun single player story line.
- The ability to link servers toghether (yes, you and your friend can combine a world toghether on your servers)
- Many different character classes and races.
- Variable story line. WC3, for example, is extremely linear (multiplayer is what makes that game).
- A hugely improved and innovated multiplayer interface and design. It works very well.
- and more... read the box

A con or two:
- gamespy is not, in my experience, well organized for bringing like minded players toghether. This is especially significant for AD&D.
- There doesn't seem to be a way to maintain state between modules. Which means npc characters kind of forget stuff that happened before.

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Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.

Re:I actually really enjoyed the single player by mattdm · 2002-08-12 15:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

Entire official AD&D third edition rules support.

That's pushing it a bit -- some things don't translate so well, and others are just missing. And of course, the DM's ability to improvise and break the rules isn't quite what it is in real life.

That said, they did a credible job.
Re:I actually really enjoyed the single player by Rydia · 2002-08-13 00:39 · Score: 1

The HRC, in tandem with the DM Helper (under links on that site, but broken), is working to give as close to full 3E compatibility as is possible.

Like I said above, if you want something in NWN, you can script it.
Re:I actually really enjoyed the single player by GypC · 2002-08-13 00:41 · Score: 2

I don't know, they hyped the single-player campaign quite a bit...
People complain about the AI, but I've found it to be adequate. Your NPCs and character getting stuck because something is directly in the way even if they could simply walk around it is kind of lame, but I suspect it's a result of trying to code around the tendency of NPCs in BG2 to take the (very!) long way around, which was even more annoying.
The magic-user opponents are pussies compared to BG2. Gone are the loads of defensive spells that keep them untouchable while they slaughter your party... sigh. I think there was too much whining on the message boards by lamers who couldn't be bothered to figure out how to beat them, and Bioware unfortunately gave in.
Why don't trolls regenerate anymore?
It's not really D&D without climbing, flying, swimming, and riding. No flying dragons, no pit traps, no loyal steeds, no thieves scaling castle walls... I'm hoping there is a NWN2 with all these things in the works.
That being said, I'm having a blast with the single player campaign, even though it is slightly repetitive compared to BG2. I haven't even tried multiplayer yet and I've already gotten my money's worth.
Re:I actually really enjoyed the single player by mattdm · 2002-08-13 01:30 · Score: 1

Yeah, that's good stuff, but it's not going to be able to give paladins mounts, introduce prestige classes, etc. And there's other things in the 3e rules which make sense to be changed -- the xp penalty for death of a familiar and waiting a year and a day for a new one are too harsh for a computer game, where your familiar is going to get killed a lot no matter what you do. I'm sure people who are more hard-core D&D players than I can go on and on about further differences.
Re:I actually really enjoyed the single player by Yunzil · 2002-08-13 07:08 · Score: 2

A con or two:
- gamespy is not, in my experience, well organized for bringing like minded players toghether. This is especially significant for AD&D.
- There doesn't seem to be a way to maintain state between modules. Which means npc characters kind of forget stuff that happened before.

- Pathfinding is awful. I don't expect it to solve a maze for me, but it would be nice if characters didn't get blocked by a lamp post.
- Ranged weapons pretty useless unless you have the point-blank shot feat or whatever it's called
- Inventory management far too tedious
- Annoying interface issues, eg, it would be nice if the inventory/map/etc. windows were actually, you know, windows, so that you could move them out of the way
- Pie menu graphics pop up in front of other things on the screen (at about the same contrast), so picking the right option is sometimes a hassle
- Long load pauses when moving between areas
- By default, you can't manage your minion's inventory and the AI is lame (I know there are scripts to fix this)
- The manual is garbage, probably in an effort to get you to buy the strategy guide :-b
- While the 3D stuff looks good, the inventory graphics look rather cartoonish

But that's enough for now. :)

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-08-12 15:36 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:What the fuck is wrong with a month??!?!? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:36 · Score: 0

Hey, it's not like it's our fault that you chose to live on the ass-end of the planet. When a Canadian company says the game is coming out in the Fall, they mean when it's Fall in Canada.

Besides, you people could have avoided this confusion by simply not re-naming the seasons to suit your local climate. The seasons were named by people living in the Northern Hemisphere. Winter Solstice is in late December, no matter where the fuck somebody is. The fact that it's hot outside in December where you live is not my problem. That just means the place where you live is hot in the Winter, and cold in the Summer.

*sigh* by jiminy · 2002-08-12 15:40 · Score: 1

now if only sony would release a port of everquest
my life would be complete...

---yes, i KNOW it runs on directx....

--
Base 2 yields only ARTIFICIAL Intelligence

Re:Article facts by Gaccm · 2002-08-12 15:41 · Score: 3, Funny

well, lets go to tuxgames.com and get the facts:

Category Adventure, Massively Multiplayer, Role-PlayingByBioware
Price $46.00
Language English
Availability Expected 16 Nov 2002 (Estimated Release Date)

Well it appears that the facts prove you wrong.

--

Only dead fish swim with the stream...

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Anonvmous+Coward · 2002-08-12 15:43 · Score: 2

Why would he be running Linux if he wants to play games? It's kinda like buying a Playstation 2 and whining about not being able to play Zelda on it.

Let me summarize by ACK!! · 2002-08-12 15:51 · Score: 2

A story about games in linux means only the following responses will be posted:

1. The games sucks. All games released for linux sucks to Slashdotters that is what put Loki out of business according to most Slashdot readers. (I really like Alpha Centauri and Heroes3 but obviously I was in the minority.)

For some reason this makes folks feel better about the fact they do not get the game, or the fact they play their games on windows.

2. Windows fans bantering on about how they have never once rebooted the Win2000 or XP box running the game server at the same time that they play their games while the linux folks wait. ./er's are all a**holes to these people yet they still post to slashdot.

These are probably the same people that litter posts about how every other story is really not news for nerds and should not be included on slashdot. Stop freaking reading it then, geez.

3. I can't hardly wait and those guys actually doing the linux port are sh*theads for not moving faster to get the port out. Always willing to kick a company supporting linux these folks will spend paragraphs complaining that the commercial company is not moving fast enough or are evil for not getting out quicker.

Let me just say that I personally play games on a windows box I keep around for just that. I also buy linux games when I like something that is out. MythII, Alpha Centauri, Heretic II (mistake) and finally Heroes of Might and Magic III. I have not gotten Castle Wolfenstein but I want to get NWN and I have heard some good things about this thing.

Obviously I have read the posts and I am considering the negative remarks. Still, as part of the linux-using community I am glad that some companies take the time and care to do a linux release even if it is much later than the windows version. I prefer Linux and going to my windows box to play games is a pain.

________________________________________________ _

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ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i

Re:Let me summarize by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 15:59 · Score: 0

You forgot:

4. A lame attempt at humour by posting a prediction or summary of posts to the story.
The post will be made lamer by the fact that none of the posts predicted actually occur.
Re:Let me summarize by ACK!! · 2002-08-12 16:04 · Score: 2

Actually they already have all come true if you bothered to look at the above posts.

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ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i
Re:Let me summarize by glwtta · 2002-08-12 16:34 · Score: 2

you forgot two categories: those summarizing all the bullshit that's been posted, and those who point out that the summaries are part of the same bullshit

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sic transit gloria mundi

So, that whole bnetd thing must be resolved now? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 16:05 · Score: 0

If we're back with Bioware written in the "good" column again. How about the MPAA, can I go buy Lord of the Rings yet with slashdot approval?

This is the reason these bastards keep getting away with stuff. They know they just have to wait ten minutes and you'll go "OOO SHINEY!" and forget your own complaints.

so what... by destiney · 2002-08-12 16:08 · Score: 1

The NWN linux server craves memory, always has, before and after v1.0. It has serious memory leakage and is closed source on top of that. I say fix it or open the source so it can be fixed. Not trying to troll, it's an awesome game, but a game programmer a server programmer does not nescessarily make.

..no idea why something as minor as a new NWN Linux page is news on /.. The NWN Linux server itself is not news, it's been 'available' for several months now.

Re:so what... by ObitMan · 2002-08-12 19:55 · Score: 0

they must have fixed the memory leaks problem.
I usually have mine (v1.22 now) going 3 nights a week with an average of 4-5 players. Sometimes i let it run all night. I've only had 2 crashes in 3 weeks. I use different modules which requires restarting but otherwise it's been as stable as when I was using the windows version of the server.
it's running on a k6-2 300 with 600 megs of ram.

--
Who run Barter Town?
Re:so what... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 08:33 · Score: 0

it's been as stable as when I was using the windows version of the server.

Yikes! That sends shivers down my spine...

I'm confused by Stonent1 · 2002-08-12 16:09 · Score: 1

God if only it were true- I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting.

What is stopping you from doing that now? :-)

Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 12:56 · Score: 0

On Windows? Nothing. On Linux? well that's pretty obvious...

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-08-12 16:40 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Chandon+Seldon · 2002-08-12 16:50 · Score: 1

Because he doesn't prioritize playing games above other more important things he uses his computer for... such as his *job*, selling banner ads by ranting about Linux being mad 'leet.

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-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.

uh,OT Apple II stuff (Re:What about the Apple II?) by MaxQuordlepleen · 2002-08-12 17:09 · Score: 1

Karateka kicked ass! I spent many hours in high school on Apple II gaming ... Ultima I - IV , Swashbuckler, Sea Dragon, and the original Wizardy trilogy. Man those were the days!

So to be kind of on topic or something, I guess I can say that I'm really glad I bought NWN, it's made me a lot happier than any other RPG I've played lately.

Re:Article facts by Johnny+O · 2002-08-12 17:30 · Score: 1

Thats kinda funny because a week ago it saud Due: Aug 8th. before that it said Due: July 8th. Tux games has no clue because Bioware wasnt supplying information in a timely manner IMHO.

How good will it be? by harlows_monkeys · 2002-08-12 17:40 · Score: 2

There are two potential problems I see with this.

First, will there be a Linux port of the tools?

Second, how well will sound work? I haven't done much Linux multimedia for a while...last time I looked, things like surround sound were a bit lacking. NWN has some pretty good use of surround sound, and I'd hate to give that up.

Re:How good will it be? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 17:49 · Score: 0

the toolset and DM client [i]are[/i] the game - if they dont port either of them the whole idea is a waste of time :/
Re:How good will it be? by Jugalator · 2002-08-12 19:27 · Score: 2

First, will there be a Linux port of the tools?

I suggest a visit to Neverwinter Wine.

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Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Golias · 2002-08-12 18:31 · Score: 1

No need to "split" his e-mail. There are a lot of work-arounds to avoid that. There's even a lot of ways to run a "comphy unix mail reader" from a Windows desktop. For relatively platform-agnostic people like me (I use Windows, OS X, Linux, and several flavors of UNIX, and like things about each of them... although less so with Windows), using cross-platform apps and/or remote desktop tools really is not a big deal.

As for why read his mail from the Windows environment, the answer is obvious: so he doesn't need to reboot, which was his chief complaint about having to play one of his favorite games in Windows.

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Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Golias · 2002-08-12 18:36 · Score: 1

Because he doesn't prioritize playing games above other more important things he uses his computer for... such as his *job*, selling banner ads by ranting about Linux being mad 'leet.

Actually, it sounds like he's talking about more of a recreational machine here, although I could be wrong.

--

Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

Agree... 3D ruined it.. Long live 2D! by Viewsonic · 2002-08-12 18:56 · Score: 1

It's true... Everything in this game is cookie cutter madness. You've seen it all before in every other 3D game.. Crates, endless tilesets that are all the same.. It sucks bad.. BG series was all beautiful 2D artwork. Nothing was repeated, it was all original, and the game was so incredibly AWESOME because of the fantastic 2D artwork.

You didn't NEED a worldbuilder with BG2! by Viewsonic · 2002-08-12 19:02 · Score: 1

Seriously, the storyline and epic artwork was enough to satisfy ANYONE. Have you seen ANYTHING remotely cool come out with the worldbuilder that doesnt look like it's the same overused 3D *crap*? Didn't think so! Whats the point of a 3D worldbuilder when everything that is in 3D is all the same! They should have stuck to making awesome 2D RPGs .. This 3D crap ruined them. What a letdown.

No punctuation, huh? by alexburke · 2002-08-12 19:33 · Score: 1

why doesn't everyone

Busted! :P

linux client page by timerider · 2002-08-12 19:34 · Score: 1

Linux client page...

it's just the right thing for the purpose,
because it's a static page. As well as the info on the linux client is static: There is no client.

bye,
[L]

Is it the full editor and client or just client? by DunbarTheInept · 2002-08-12 20:29 · Score: 2

I had heard rumors that they scrapped the idea of putting out the full program for linux and are going to only put out the client (not the editor that lets you create new adventures, but just the program that lets you play in adventures someone else made.)

Does anyone know what the story is on this? Their website was almost completely informationless. I would go for a NWN program for linux only if it was the "real" thing. If it's some half-done port that only has the client then I'm not interested.

(I don't mind booting into Windows from time to time to PLAY a game, but I don't want to have to use it to DESIGN one. For designing I want to interleave the time spent designing the adventure with time spent doing other things on the machine, and those "other things" are not Windows things.)

The OS used is a lot more relevant when designing than when playing.

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Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with a month??!?!? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-12 20:40 · Score: 0

The fact that it's hot outside in December where you live is not my problem.

It may be cold during summer (but less than during winter). Don't asume everyone lives at your exact latitude you dork!

Re:Article facts by Treylis · 2002-08-12 22:18 · Score: 1

Only phonetically. ;-)

Winter in German is 'Winter'. Thrilling, huh?

Re:Is it the full editor and client or just client by WWWWolf · 2002-08-13 01:33 · Score: 1

Does anyone know what the story is on this?

Last I heard a rumor about a rumor about reasons behind No Port of Toolkit, they blamed Borland for not shipping some promised development thingy for Linux. *deepsigh*

Personally, I'm going to try Neverwinter Wine soon - hope that works.

If it's some half-done port that only has the client then I'm not interested. [...]

Now this is an interesting attitude! Personally, I thought anything that means less reboots to Windows would be a good thing... =)

A topic on a game that denegrates... by zaal · 2002-08-13 02:20 · Score: 2, Informative

... into a Linux-Windows testicle comparison here on /.? Who would of thought that possible?

Beyond my sarcasm, I love this game. I love it. I have played all the other recent RPG offerings from Bioware in recent memory and loved them all as well so I have a basis for comparison.

Is it perfect? Well... is what perfect? We're talking about 3(?) different components: the single player client (and campaign), the DM's client, and the toolset.

The single player campaign is great fun. I haven't even finished it completely with one character because I keep switching classes, wanting to play with them all. Even repeating the same chapter 4 times has not lessened my excitement for this game. Each time you change classes, you essentially get a new game to conquor. Not to mention going online using the player client and joining an amazing array of worlds is just so satisfying.

The DM client does have some bugs that need fixing but BW is working on it. They fixed a couple in the last patche that were considered 'game breakers' by some. I can control almost anything I want in my world. If I can't control everything I want with the default tools, I can script to make it happen. If I don't know how to script it, there is a great community of people just waiting to help create a solution to a problem. Many scripts have been posted on the forums there and cover the gamut of most DM needs.

The toolset is simply amazing. Though adding more tilesets and creatures would be beneficial (where are my kobolds? Level 1's need to be able to kill kobolds!!!) they have done very well with translating the creativity of a world-builder (DM) into something visible with the eye.

It sounds to me like most of the people bashing this game haven't delved deeply enough into the game, are stuck on comparing this game to other BW games, find a need to nitpick the small things (yes dragons should be able to fly. get over it) or just haven't played with all the different options enough (DM client, Toolset) to have enough information to base an opinion on.

The addition of the Linux based client will add a new dimension to playing this game. More people won't have to reboot to play now. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing?

Whoops! Forgot where I was. I'll prepare to get modded down immediately.

--
An Open-handed slap is better than a punch any day: Humiliation is a great tool

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by Sloppy · 2002-08-13 02:48 · Score: 1

I think it's a references either to IMAP, or ssh/telnetting into your server box and running a text mailreader (mutt, pine, etc) that way. Either way, your workstation's OS becomes relatively unimportant.

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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.

Linux is NOT JUST FOR SERVERS!!!!! by SHEENmaster · 2002-08-13 02:50 · Score: 1

I use Linux on all of my computers from my servers to my laptop.

Back before I saw the light, I played BG in winshit 2k. I needed to save every minute, because the game LOVED to crash when I changed CDs. PlaneScape:Torment wasn't quite as bad, but it still crashed on occasion. I recently discovered the cause, a cdplaying systray program. Why the hell would one want to play games on a system that crashes at the drop of a pin!?

Some of us need server stability on a workstation. I guess that you don't do anything important enough for that.

People aren't as attached to winshit as you seem to think. I moved my mother over to Linux, and she hasn't had any problems. In fact, she prefers it.

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You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

Re:Linux is NOT JUST FOR SERVERS!!!!! by ironstorm · 2002-08-13 09:51 · Score: 1

Although my luck with Linux hasnt been all that good, I do know that it's a very worthwhile OS, and is great for desktop systems. I've seen it work perfectly on even laptop systems that arent even supported by versions of Windows other than ME (gasp!). If you have the ability to make Linux work for you, it's better than Windows any day.
Re:Linux is NOT JUST FOR SERVERS!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 11:03 · Score: 0

I gave my mom Linux too. She loves it.

Re:Taco (getting a little OT here...) by qurk · 2002-08-13 03:40 · Score: 1

I dunno, I basically switched to linux because I found a mud client which blows away mudmaster or zmud on windows. It's called Mcl, and it uses perl or python for it's scripts, so you can be quite creative :) Also Quake 3 (about the last game I figure I'll be really getting into for awhile) runs awesome on Linux. If your into emulators, I've found excellent emulators for nes and snes. I've yet to find a emulator that can come close to the best windows genesis emulator, and haven't even tried to find a good neogeo or turbographix emulator. But as my mud client and quake3 runs great on linux, I'm happy :) (i'm easy to please :) )

The game is cool, but Infogames sucks... by Maul · 2002-08-13 04:06 · Score: 2

Really, it sucks that Bioware and Interplay had legal problems. I sort of feel that Infogames forced Bioware's hands in releasing this game with only a very short public beta run. While there might be plenty of reasons for the release date, I somehow am getting the impression that Infogames is responsible for the switch from "simultaneous release" for all operating systems to "wait until fall for Linux and Mac versions, sorry..."

It is saddening, since even when it went gold, I thought that the Linux version was going to be in the box. I guess I didn't read the press releases.

There are also some bug-related issues in the game, but they don't seem to bother me that much.

All that being said, the game is still really awesome. Especially multiplayer. The changes to 3E were minimal (though I don't get why they added parry mode) for the PC translation. Obviously, some spells and cleric domains were taken out, but it is still darn cool.

--

"You spoony bard!" -Tellah

Trolls and Regeneration by ShavenYak · 2002-08-13 04:28 · Score: 1

Why don't trolls regenerate anymore?

Must be because of the lameness filters. Oh, sorry, different kind of trolls we're talking about, huh?

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Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!

*Yearnfull Sigh* by Rexburg · 2002-08-13 04:40 · Score: 1

What we can give you:
- an assurance that the Linux client will be released
- a web page for the Linux Client where all updates will take place

Those sexy bitches. Sexy, sexy bitches.

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Launch all sig

Reason #198,491 by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 05:41 · Score: 0

...that Desktop Linux users have to boot over to Windows. I wonder how many reasons Desktop Windows users have for booting over to Linux? "Because it's stable." Laugh. "Because it's secure." Laugh.

Re:Reason #198,491 by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 06:01 · Score: 0

Of course Linux is more stable for Desktop users. There's no applications for them to run.
Re:Reason #198,491 by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 06:06 · Score: 0

Of course Linux is more stable for Desktop users. There's no applications for them to run.

Funny... but not true. There are tons of applications for Desktop Linux users to run. I think what you should have said was there are no GOOD applications for Desktop users to run. Stability in Linux (for Desktop users) is a pathetic joke. From e-mail to web browsing to word processing, none of it is even remotely stable compared to Windows. Now this is the part where some elitist moron is going to say "What about PINE??" or "What about Lynx??!!". My response - get out of the dark ages. People don't want command line tools. Get over it.

Re:Is it the full editor and client or just client by Anonymous Coward · 2002-08-13 06:31 · Score: 0

So far it seems it will be just the client. A mod on the Bioboards made NWWine which works with the retail toolkit. Borland also released the tools needed to do linux work on the toolkit in the current version of Kylix.

Are you retarded?!? by fudgefactor7 · 2002-08-13 07:15 · Score: 1

You write: "Back before I saw the light, I played BG in winshit 2k. I needed to save every minute, because the game LOVED to crash when I changed CDs. PlaneScape:Torment wasn't quite as bad, but it still crashed on occasion. I recently discovered the cause, a cdplaying systray program. Why the hell would one want to play games on a system that crashes at the drop of a pin!?" First you moan that Win2K is crap and crashes on your all the time when you changed CDs. Obviously a bad OS. Then you discover, by your own words, that it was a "cdplaying systray program," which YOU INSTALLED! Ever thought about uninstalling the offending program? Or perhaps even end-tasking it? No? Gee, go figure. Blame yourself, moron. If you can't get something simple like Windows to work correctly, what the hell are you doing with computers at all!?

Re:Is it the full editor and client or just client by DunbarTheInept · 2002-08-13 09:44 · Score: 2

Now this is an interesting attitude! Personally, I thought anything that means less reboots to Windows would be a good thing

A half-done port means MORE reboots into Windows, not less. (Think about the process of developing an adventure, very similar to developing software: develop/test/develop/test/develop/test. Each of those "/"'es is a reboot if the client and development tools are on different platforms. If they are on the same platform, it's only one reboot at the beginning and one at the end.) The real reason I'd want the development on Linux is that development is a longer activity with more switching between apps, and in that situation the OS you are using becomes relevant, and I'd want an OS that caters to the needs of a programmer more than Windows does, because adventure design would be a lot like programming. What OS you are on isn't all that relevant when you are just PLAYING the game, because there is less switching between apps then - you just go in to the one app, it goes fullscreen, and the OS is largely unnoticable. It's there behind the scenes somewhere, but you don't have to directly interact with it once you are "in the game".

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Re:Is it the full editor and client or just client by WWWWolf · 2002-08-15 00:02 · Score: 1

I still don't understand... the client is the same in Windows and Linux, code is cross-platform, and the toolset and the client runs in Windows, so you can develop and test the module in Windows and play it in both Windows and Linux. It's not as if you'd install the Linux client that the Windows client would magically disappear!

I understand the need to have the Linux client, but I just don't see how the lack of toolset for Linux would mean more reboots. At worst, it's the same amount of reboots!

Re:Is it the full editor and client or just client by DunbarTheInept · 2002-08-15 03:54 · Score: 2

I just don't see how the lack of toolset for Linux would mean more reboots. It would if you approached it from the standpoint of someone who prefers being booted into linux for everything else besides the game, like web browsing, e-mail, programming, and so on. Having to go to windows for NWN developing and switching back to linux for everything else is a lot of rebooting. And since task switching into and out of NWN is going to be a lot more common while developing an adventure than whan playing it, it's the DM toolset that matters most to alleviate this. While playing the game I'm not likely to want to be switching between it and other apps. But while DESIGNING an adventure, I am. (For example, I might want to edit a sound file in a sound tool, and edit some textures in GIMP, and so on, WHILE I have the adventure creation app up and running.)

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are YOU retarded!?!? by SHEENmaster · 2002-08-22 10:32 · Score: 1

It came with winshit 2k. It started by default whenever a CD was inserted.

I have NEVER had two programs conflict in Linux or *BSD.

TIP:Use the &ltbr> tag to insert line breaks. You can also use the extrans setting on slashdot. Is html too hard for you?

I bought an iBook since I posted that comment. I'm gonna use it for gaming.

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