Slashdot Mirror
The Warriors Stood in the Shape of a Heart
An anonymous reader writes "Here's a picture of Warsingers funeral. Warsinger was an in-game persona in the rather good MMORPG Dark Age of Camelot". and generally well-liked.
The real person behind Warsinger was a 32-year-old with heart trouble, who really died.
So the players on his server organized an in-game
funeral.At the funeral, players from the three realms of Camelot, who normally kill each other gleefully on sight, stood in the shape of a heart (check the pic above); the two figures in the center of the heart are Warsinger's real-life sister and girlfriend."
How many people they had to kick for spoiling the fun and and getting free kills?
It's next to impossible to find a (FPS) game with friendly fire enabled that you don't find kiddies shooting you in the back for fun - let alone not shooting the other team..
*Oops, trigger slipped*
Wow! That's what I call an online community! I don't play Dark Age of Camelot, but my deepest sympathy goes to his family.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent - Salvor Hardin
Possibly these people spend more of their social time in front of a PC than in the genuine outdoors... so it's unsurprising that a funeral and other social rituals might take place. The important point is that the real person died... imagine if they held funerals for every Quake frag victim... the game would take forever LOL
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
... as the first "religious" ceremony in virtual reality? Only quoted religiousness, as the ceremony does not seem to lock into any one religion, and does not make a statement of belief.
Probably not the first one either, but the first one to draw enough eyeballs through slashdot to be publicly remembered.
This makes one wonder whether gaming was his foremost achievement in his life, and if so, was it fullfilling. Probably at least the latter.
Rest in peace. And loved.
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
How lame... mod this moron down...
just further proves the depth of the relationships that are kindled through online gaming. For all of us who have logged on at 4am just to talk to friends and occasionally do some killing it is nice to see this sense of community alive and well. I just hope there weren't any trolls wandering around causing unnecessary mayhem at such a sacred time.
Read the article High-Tech Ways to Handle End-of-Life Issues and visit this site of a company that organizes (semi) virtual funerals.
I play in a chat-based RPG known as A Call To Duty. It's been around for about 6 years and currently stands at 240-something players. We've seen real life marriages and births as the result of players meeting in the game. Inevitably, we've also had players who have passed away. Recently, the passing of one of our game managers was marked by dedicating a ship in his name. His family understood what the game meant to him, and they were happy with what we had done.
When the line between reality and fantasy becomes THIS blurred, people need to take a step away from things. There is a difference between expressing your sympathy and turning the whole issue in some sick display on online emotions. Jezus christ, those people you're talking to aren't people, they are simple electronic connections to a server using the TCP/IP protocol.
Hate me!
It's nice that in a way his funeral meant something to his friends, rather than a boring sermon from a speaker that didn't really know him.
A few years back a guy died on the field in the reenactment of the battle of tewksbury (1471).
I think of a burst aorta, possibly exacerbated by hefting a large sword around a field in 33C heat, wearing plate armour...
It wasn't until afterwards that people realised that he was really dead. They had a wonderful funeral the next day, in the nearby abbey (where many of the noble dead from the battle were buried). Thousands turned up to pay their respects, most still in kit. He was buried in the same way a respected knight would have been.
Though I didn't find out personally, I'm told that the pallbearers had a hard time holding up the coffin, as he was buried in plate.
This guy must have some drow blood in him! Raid!!
She was playing as well. Might not have been a RL girl friend.
I think you're being a little harsh. The computer imposes certain limitations on how you can interact, but there are still real people controlling the characters. That's why people play online instead of against AI. It's why people troll FPS -- the other players get annoyed and react and you know you've upset a real human and they can't respond.
I compare online games to a game of football at the park. All the players have personalities and people often chat while there's no action. They get to know each other. If you run off with the ball one day people will remember. If you were fun to play with people remember that too. The community wanted to homour this guy, so they had a ceremony. That's cool in my opinion -- the other players obviously thought a lot of this guy, and the practicalities of a real life ceremony would prevent it.
Perhaps you've never been a regular on a good game server. There's definately a community spirit.
Back in the days of BBSing there was this BBS in Rochester, NY, and one of the users of this BBS had a heart attack while online.
After the incident the welcome screen was modified to read "Welcome to xxxx BBS" and down near the bottom: "Frags: 1"
Its hard enough getting people to stand in patterns in real life...how do you organize people to stand like that online?
It's a strange thing.. when you play RPGs you're used to the idea of people dying and then coming back. Real Life isn't quite like that, unless you believe in Buddhism. There's a sense of loss, but of that person as a game character, not as a real human, and it often comes as a huge shock to remember that these are flesh-and-blood mortals.
Of course, its also rare that you find if someone has died.. sometimes people go away and you're often left wondering why. It's only the most prominent players who you tend to find out about when they pass away. sigh.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
As someone who spends less time on online games than he does on the toilet I get the point here - just because you don't meet in real life doesn't mean you don't know someone. You can get close to people playing games together, be it monopoly or fragUup.
/poll looking at %age of social time spent online / onplanet / onTivo. I get the feeling that more and more people are spending a bigger and bigger chunk of their life online. Not a bad thing as such, many people spend nearly all their social time hooked to the TV, the Bar, a SkateBoard.
I'd like to see a
This sort of thing has been happening for years in online worlds. Interesting how games that supposedly degrade a person's civility can harbor such a beutiful testament of pure respect.
Ok , I know the story was about the funeral but others have expressed their sentiments far better than I could. Anyway , I was wondering , is anyone undertaking or if not wouldn't it be a good idea for someone to write some sort of generalised client that could be used with a range of these types of graphical 3D MUDs? That way you wouldn't need a different client for each game but the companies could still make money buy charging you for an account. What I'm thinking of I guess is a 3D graphical version of telnet.
"Warsinger was a 32-year-old with _heart_ trouble"
Then They all gathered in the shape of a Heart...
That's pretty screwed up...
That's like paying homage to a Crucifix to represent the death of a person Crucified...
Pretty Morbid if people would do such a thing...
Back in Air Warrior on GEnie in the 1980s, when it was $6 an hour to play a real online graphical flightsim against other people on an Amiga or Mac, a very popular player named Scav died. I think that was the first organized Missing Man flight in online flight sims. But since then in the various spinoffs in the genre, there have been many.
I agree with everything that Erpo wrote. I'd just like to add that while it is acceptable for minor mistakes to be made by people commenting, the same is not true for editors; it is their job to ensure that posts have correct grammar and spelling.
Even death has become too easy, you can sorrow online and forget it tomorrow.
You cannot see the grief of the relatives, you cannot see the pain or the sadness, it's all game. Do online gamers really understand that a real person died, not a character. Is the sorrow similar to one you feel when the main character in your favorite book dies?
My brother died few months ago, he was very active quake player, member of a succesfull clan etc. His clan mates had never met him in real life, but they were as close as someone can be virtually/online. Now six months later they barely remember he ever was in their clan. Instead his real life friends still grief him frequently.
In my opinion everything online is a shadow of the same thing in real life - even emotions.
... All stood in silence to pay their respects, except for SEXPOT_PHUCK2944, a level 99 knight, who with godly plate of the whale and the ultimate demon sword, slaughtered the unsuspecting group and took their gold.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Oh yes Well I know it helped me, to be honest I find it strange when I don't have mod points.
Somebody hit this guy with a clue-by-four!
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
bla
Me thanking you muchly to explain these r00ls!
"He said, 'I'd like you to meet my wife and sister', and there's one girl standing there..."
- Bill Hicks
Six months after your best friend dies then you hardly think about him. It doesn't mean that you cared less about him. It means that life goes on and you have to respond to it or die too (I have seen that happen and I personally don't respect those shell people who can't take the good from the friendship and use it to make their life better instead of wasting their energy in profitless grief long after its time).
The difference with an online friend is that you interact with them in less ways and so have fewer ways to show that you remember them when something happens that reminds you of them.
I suspect that your brother's online friends do still think about him but they don't show it when they are busy plundering and hunting dragons. Everyone grieves in their own way.
Good point, I believe anyone would is not capable of producing in society whether they can or not should be put down. I mean that's what a smart farmer does to animals. As a matter of fact why don't you hold the gun. You can get rid of all the fat slobs you sit around doing nothing, the recluses who give nothing, the severally physically disabled who can't do anything, and those with IQ lower than 40 who are too stupid to contribute anything.
But wait! If we kill off the stupid people then you would be the first to go.
They know how old he is, they know who his sister and girlfriend are and they know how he died, but his name? Nope, not a mention.
Something about technology being dehumanizing?
n/m
Insert offensive troll-style sig here. Please mod or respond appropriately.
Yes, I'm next to "Highlander Warrior" on the right proudly holding my Realm Keepers shield with my helmet removed in tribute. I set my alarm clock to get up unusually early specifically to travel (yes *travel*, its a long and dangerous way from Cornwall to Hadrians Wall)
I can't believe the number of "pathetic loser" comments that I'm seeing here. Yes, this is a game, but no it does NOT substitute for real life. We are not detatched from reality. DaoC is the very first MMORPG that I've ever played and it did not take me very long to realize that with the gameplay comes a great deal of human interaction, far beyond just "fragging" people in a FPS.
You truly build and associate with a community of people that you enjoy and care about. One couple in my guild (yes, most of us are over 30, married and have spouses and children that play) just had a baby and we all celebrated. One guild member was just called up to active duty in the reserves and we saluted him when he left (and he is missed already).
If you had a co-worker die, I hope that you would be touched and saddened. These are people that I know and care about....why is this pathetic?
Simusid Hawke
Level 42 Armsman
Albion/Pellinor
Not a lot of people know this, but in Sunset Home, the zone in EverQuest reserved for customer service personnel to enjoy between answering petitions, there are a few memorials to guides (players who volunteer their time to help with the customer service) who have passed away while in the program.
/salute and /hug.
During the training session a senior guide takes you around sunset home showing you the sights, but they're always very serious and sombre around the avatars that exist in memoriam...
On the server where I was a guide for a brief time one of the guides had recently passed away so they made a special point of telling us about him and his avatar. When they would passed by they would always find time for a quick
Ok I'm trying not to troll or be flamebait here but there is something unsettling about this (and it seems that a lot of other modded down posters feel the same way) although I don't know why. I guess it was that the entire thing was carried on in his hobby and not a job or anything "normal" (but what's normal nowadays). There was that other post about the reenactor being buried in full plate by his reenactment buddies. It all goes along the same lines I guess.
In one way both of these people were "playing someone else" and, to memorialize them this way almost seems to say that they are "playing dead" and everyone else is "playing funeral" (kind of like the childrens' game). From this perspective it seems like a trivialization of the event. Sure, the people taking part were close friends, but to outsiders it all seems like an act.
Of course, if I die, it would be neat to have a 12 Arctic Weapon Head Shot Salute... maybe not.
What is music when you despise all sound?
"When Geeks Mourn"
(they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel in the "When [plural noun] [verb]" show genre.)
Am I the only one that took a West Virginia sort of view on that description and had to look at the pic to see if there were one or two characters in the center?
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
You, sir, are a fuckwit.
Inactivity killed him, eh? WTF do *you* know about it? Congestive heart failure isn't necessarily, or even typically, caused by lack of physical activity. It's a disease process, not a moral failing.
Would you say this same crap to someone with Duchenne's? "Go outside and play!" It was almost certainly not his desire to be limited by congestive heart problems, and your comments reveal only ignorance and insensitivity. Piss off.
Understandably some of those posts are intended to be trolls and flamebait, but even those intentions in this topic are incredibly thoughtless and a sad indicator of the mentality of too many people in my generation.
This person's death was mourned in a fairly uncommon way and seems worthy of some attention and respect. At the same time, I'm not suggesting that death has to be completely serious and solemn -- I hope when I die my friends and family will hold a party in my honor with laughter and lots of food. But even in a light-hearted situation as that may be, thoughtless comments still do not have any place.
I feel sorry for those that feel this person has wasted his life simply because he found it easier to make friends online than in real life. Having had many online friendships, some still exist today, I can say from experience that I have not forgotten these individuals in as much as they revealed to me.
Certainly knowing someone in real life is more conducive to creating much stronger bonds among people, but it did say his sister and girlfriend were online in the middle of the heart, so that suggests he did indeed have some sort of life beyond the game.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I play a MUD called WoTMUD, after the Wheel of Time. A few years ago, a guy with a character named Marky revealed that he was about to die from aids. He then apologized to everyone and everyone he'd ever been an ass to on the game. It was touching and sad. Turns out he'd used the game as a way to forget his pain, and lose himself for a while in slaying Trollocs. There are a good number of people on the game still who knew him. He will be remembered.
I dont play DAOC, dunno these people and I dont know any reason why they would lie/fake this, but it's a touching and thoughtful thing to do.
Some years ago I played on a MU* (Shadowrun Seattle) and the head of the mux was Darrian. She had stated throughout her time that she had some disease (cancer...something else? Don't recall the details on it). Anyhow, at one poitn she got sick and took some time off, then stepped down from being in charge. DUring her time up there she did a good number of things, even talking to someone who's brother was going thruogh a similar thing.
Then a message from our new 'leader' who stated that Darrian had passed away. Lots of emotion, people feeling sorry. A virtual memorial was created where people put up lots of postings, memoriable stories and so on and so forth. And Darrians girlfriend came online (yes girlfriend, shoulda been hint #1), asked for us all to send emails to her account of words of memberance and so forth. Those would be printed out, burned and the ashes spread on her coffin at the funeral.
I think it was half a year later that the leader of our mux finally admitted that there was no Darrian. 'Darrian', our glorious leader hadn't been a female with a fatal disease, instead she was a overweight computer geek of course. So everyone went pretty pissed off and so forth. And then...to top things off...'she' returned as another character on the game, and attempted to start playing again.
And you thought flames here were bad:)
(I dont have any real moral to the story, but it's sad to see people taking advantage of ya that way. Course, even sadder that we fell for it (hindsight is 20/20).
And maybe they don't know the person as well or don't miss as much as the family of the person who died. So what.
But don't you dare say they don't have the right to morn at all. Online is a way to bring together people from across the world who would otherwise be left out. It's not as close as in person, but it is much better than nothing.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Well, before you post more comments, ask yourself: "What have I offered to the world?" and also ask yourself why you are making your comments on a website (slashdot) that you did not or could not create by yourself that is based on an infrastructure (internet, etc) that you barely have basic knowledge of. Please think of this attentively before you shoot yourself ;-)
ANGEL: I watched you, and I saw you called. It was a bright afternoon out in front of your school. You walked down the steps... and... and I
loved you.
BUFFY: Why?
ANGEL: 'Cause I could see your heart. You held it before you for everyone to see. And I worried that it would be bruised or torn. And more than anything in my life I wanted to keep it safe... to warm it with my own.
{they embrace}
BUFFY: That's beautiful. Or taken literally, incredibly gross.
ANGEL: I was just thinking that, too.
From the episode "Helpless"
All I can see is a totally black photo with a bunch of names in a jumble, and what might be faces. The pic is totally unviewable. Maybe they should have used a flash.
His name was Robert Paulson.
and godspeed.
Maximum level in DAoC is 50. And I don't think they would've held a funeral near a Lv99 mob like the Dragon.
That said - I wish I'd known about this. I play DAoC and knew nothing. Of course, it WAS on a different server.
I'm honestly surprised at how few people showed up in that picture - That's on par with a single realm's RvR zerg, and word tends to spread REALLY fast throughout a realm in DAoC. If I'd been on the server in question (Pellinor, I play on Lancelot), I would've been there.
Strange thing was, I was at Beno last night... For the first time ever.
One other odd thing to note: It looks like the screenshot was made by someone not from the guild/realm holding the funeral, as the shot is almost all Midgard players but they have the generic "not from your realm" names. I also see a couple of generic Albion tags, so the shot must've been taken by a Hibernian.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Online Communities are not just made up of people who have met online. Sometimes real life friends organize to get together online to enjoy a game together.
I don't know Warsinger or his player. Never met him in real life or in DaoC.
But I find that this gesture is a very nice one, and probably not the only gesture to commemorate this individual's passing. I'm sure his face to face friends met face to face to lay him to rest. His online gaming friends met online to commemorate his passing.
This is no weirder than running a marathon to remember someone who ran marathon's or launching Gene Roddenberry's ashes into space.
If you know someone in a certain context you tend to want to memorialize them in that context.
Rest in Peace
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Firstly, my condolencses. Regardless of your take on MMORPGs, a real human being has passed and that's always an aweful thing.
Admittedly, I have played MMORPGs before and I found that most people I encountered in game were interesting, friendly, and often perfectly willing to talk, give me directions or just throw back some ale and b.s. about life.
This article makes the point somewhat touching point that communites and friendships can develop online that are as rewarding or at least as "real" as stumbling into your local drinkery and chatting with the poor schmoe next to you for a couple hours a night.
With regard to Dark Age of Camelot...the game was such a success because the structure of the game focused on teamwork and served to galvanize players to work toward common goals and to do so together. In addition, teams of players were in competition with other teams of players, so cross-"realm" rivalries and reputations were built.
Just my 2 cp
As someone else already pointed out: the relationship one builds in an MMORPG is a lot less tenuous than relations in 1st person shooters. It is surprising to non-players how much one can learn about another player through the game, and many players who meet their close on-line-friends in real life end up being close friends in real life as well. Some even marry. I'd say I am closer to some in-game friends whom I have never met, than I am to some of my real-life friends. I cannot imagine many gamers feeling the death of an in-game friend merely as the death of their character.
And does one really have to see the grief of the deceased's relatives to make ones own grief more valid or real? At a funeral, one may find comfort in the presence of others that share ones grief. That is the purpose of these virtual funerals. Friends of the deceased gather to share the grief and thereby easing it somewhat, not because it is a k3wl thing to do in-game.
I have lost 2 friends whom I have met only through an online game (Ultima Online). I personally found much comfort in attending their in-game funeral. (incidently, it usually is the person him/herself who is remembered and "buried", not their character). Oh, these friends died over a year ago but yes, I still remember them.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I should have mentioned that my 12 year old son is a 22 level scout, my daughter is a level 6 theurigist, and my 7 year old son is a level 10 Higlander armsman.
They all play baseball and soccer are "A" students and and have other "real world interests". We all use this game to relax.
"the best of all :US people still wonder why nobody like them"
i would prefer to keep it that way.
Well, before you post more comments, ask yourself: "What have I offered to the world?"
I participated in coding things that you're probably using right now to post that retarded message.
Unless you're a Microsoft Fairy.
Recently (within the past 2 years) I lost a very good friend of mine. I only knew him by his handle until his death, dethvader. Unlike most of the other posts, I did not know him from a game, just an IRC channel. He had been dead for months before we heard the news. We thought he moved away. A blood-clot a doctor missed travelled from his leg and deposited itself in such a place as to kill him. He was gone for months before we knew. One of our mutual friends saw him connect to ICQ. But it wasn't him, it was his mother. Our friend told us the news. She stayed online for the next few days receiving our condolences and prayers that the rest of the family would make it though ok.
I never knew what he looked like. I had to ask her. It's....an interesting feeling to confide in someone you trust and appreciate and go through their entire short life (he wasn't even 20) not knowing what they look like. Perhaps there is something to be said for a race of beings that can seperate friendship and companionship from a corporal body -- that we can still connect even if we can't ever see each other. Something about our passions and intellect can allow us to comfort each other and help those in need without ever being there.
I know my friend is gone now, but there is much to remember him by. When we all heard the news, we had a wake where we each perused our logs for any of his quotes or conversations we had. Many of us still have those logs. There is even a website dedicated to his memory, one he frequented often. The community back then was in its height...but now..well it's not like the good ole days. But those of us still in the community will always remember him and what he contributed.
I know alot of people might find this lame, but there is alot to be said about how we express our feelings through media. Be it art, poetry, music, or even fellowship. There is still humanity in all we create, even the internet. Even if we choose not to use it, notice it, or even laugh at the people who do, it is still there. It is there for those of us who don't have to let physical boundries seperate friends and who aren't concerned about what the internet should and should not be used for. It is here for us to express ourselves --- sometimes, unfortunately...it is our grief.
Zech Harvey, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA
...where the two main characters of the story, who have been working together to solve a mystery involving an illegal virtual gaming universe created from a book whose author had specifically forbade such adaptation, get married--virtually, of course. I guess it's a bit like how Creative Anachronist types will celebrate personal liaisons by getting themselves up in period dress and drinking mead--only at least _they're_ wearing real clothes and drinking real alcohol.
It's sweet, I guess...but really creepy, too, if you ask me.
hyacinthus.
Don't you mean "Bernstein"? Casting first stones and all that.
(sings) I say e-ther, you say, i-ther, I say, nee-ther, you say nye-ther.....
Over at Everything2, in the two and a half years it's existed, we've had a few permanent departures or deaths of well-known members of the community. Now, E2 isn't anything like an MMPORG, unless you consider the subjective assembly of a encyclopedia of culture a "game".
But the community is solid there, and an essential part of E2. A special subset of the "nodespace" is carved out just for that community to recognize itself. Gatherings take place in cities large and small so that regulars and irregulars can meet face-to-face. People who stop contributing to the database entirely sometimes stick around for the friendships.
So when a regular needs to leave the site for good, or we learn one has died recently, even those who didn't know him or her closely are affected. Homenodes and daylogs suddenly fill with memories of the person, or at the very least an acknowledgement of his or her contributions, both of knowledge and friendship. A "virtual funeral" wouldn't work there, or at least it wouldn't work the same way. It's more like an unofficial wake. I think that if the Slashdot editorial pool suffered a similar loss, we'd all gather in one forum to do the same thing.
Things like this are good to record, and to pass around. It lets people know that online community is still community, that friends exist in places where we may never meet them. Many will look at things like this and find it disturbing or unnatural; I'd argue that the opposite is true.
You know all these "pathetic loser" posts are kind of missing the point.
Frankly - I'd have been more disturbed had the community *not* done something online to recognize the death of one of their members.
Can you just imagine the game going on quietly as if nothing had happened - as if the death of this *person* was just some kind of hiccup? Yuck.
My condolences to his friends and family.
A group of people decided to show respect for someone's death online. Did it deserve this much hoopla?
It is neither more or less shocking than writing a letter to show your regreat over the death of your pen friend.
There are no issues or amazing stuff to discover here. The world has changed. Deal with it.
Even death has become too easy, you can sorrow online and forget it tomorrow.
Next we just need some Firemen to burn all the bodies as soon as they die. Maybe throw some books in with him.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
I dunno. I'm not intending to be inflammatory or anything, just trying to figure this one out, that's all. Comments?
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
In real life if a student of a school dies, or an employee of a company, or a member of a sporting team dies do we not hod a memorial to that person IN the place we know him? Do we not stop the sports game and have a moments silence? Do we not pause or work and remember that person? These people knew this guy in his game. This is how they meet him, talked to him, interacted with him. THIS is the place where they will miss him, this is where they have spent time with the person, building a relationship and getting to know him. So what if they have never seen his picture? So what if they what if they only know him from a game? How is this different to knowing someone from a sporting club? Do we not stop the game and have a moments silence anyway?
Nobody thinks anything when a former great of a sporting club dies of that club holding a memorial to him before their next game, even though most of the people don't know the person. Just the image, just the story. Just the media.
I too got a tear to the eye when I heard this story. This person meant a lot too his clan. The fact that other players showed the humanity to the other players to allow them to hold a memorial to their fallen comrade says great things about the community spirit that the games has, and should be let to stand as the monument it is.
A memorial to a fallen friend by his comrades and those that WILL miss him.
As a monument to the humanity of man.
As a monument to the potential of the internet to allow people from all over the world to contact each other. Build a community of the whole and to develop friendships with people who we would otherwise never have meet.
Please detractors, leave it alone. Respect the wishes and the morning of these people and allow them the genuineness of their grief without debate.
Tomorrow their will be a new topic for debate. Now we have the chance to foster that community. I urge detractors to read the logs of linked at the top. After reading them I have no doubt that the feelings where genuine, and the symbolism of this memorial a powerfully healing experience for those suffering lose at his death.
If you haven't noticed, every post that says "That was a cool thing to do" is modded up, and every post that says "That was a lame thing to do" is modded down. It's nice to see that Slashdot is a place of such diverse opinions.
I, for one, agree with the lame side, because the forum for the grieving-- the DAoC world-- was not where the death had occurred. The kid's character in DAoC continues to exist. Think about the movies: when an actor dies in real life, you don't suddenly eulogize that actor's screen persona. When Phil Hartman was killed, did The Simpsons do a special episode honoring Lionel Hutz? (Or, for that matter, honoring Phil?)
Think about the opposite: if they had formed a real-life funeral to mourn the death of his character in the game, we'd all agree that was lame. (Well, except for the MUD losers out there who confuse gaming with reality.) This is just further evidence of people who can't seem to distinguish their online world from the real world.
I like the way you spell "irony".
No doubt you attack so quickly, your only neuron makes your decisions faster.
Believe it or not, your parasite civilisation has fallen.
This encouraging display of support is a notable serene one, but luckily not an isolated instance of online gamers quietly convening to honor a departed fellow player. "Missing Man" formations and fly-pasts in the massively multiplayer flightsims (WarBirds... or Aces High) are (alas) frequent. Also not unheard of is for someone to write of a personal setback or hardship (e.g.: flood destroying his/her home) and find checks totalling over $1000 arriving from squadmates and friends who heard about the plight through a BBS. I love that spirit.
tone
He died befor War did.
http://camelotvault.ign.com/videos/Salute.wmv
I find it disturbing that people accept and praise the idea of "Virutal" relationships, "Virtual" friends, and a "Virtual" life. I find it sick that people consider this online funeral "a great showing of compassion" If that were the case they should have sprang a few hundred bucks (or pooled their money so those players that couldn't afford it), flew out to the REAL funeral and made a REAL heart to honor a REAL friend. When a friend of mine from UO died I popped $450 for the plane ticket and wen't to the the funeral. REAL PEOPLE DESERVE A REAL FUNERAL AND IF YOU ARE A REAL FRIEND YOU BETTER DO SOMETHING REAL. Here is the problem, if you identify that these VIRTUAL lives you live have value you open a can of worms the like that has never been seen. If these VIRTUAL activities are EQUAL to real activities in merit and value and you hold them as EQUAL then don't be suprised if someone charges you with VIRTUAL theft, infidelity, emotinal damages, or murder. I refuse to honor such a foolish act. It is no better than those who "wept" and "sobbed" when JFK Jr. died. Sorry YOU NEVER MET HIM AND MOURNING HIM WITH SUCH A PATHETIC DISPLAY ONLY DIMINISHED THE "REAL" GRIEF OF THE FAMILY. Has society slipped to far that the the lines between reality and fiction have slipped so far? If he was a "REAL" friend you should have done something "REAL" to honor him. Next thing you'll be doing is emailing bad news like ,"Sorry Mrs. Doe, your husband died during the sugery. :( "
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
...of being buried in my reenactment kit. Funerals *should* reflect the person they're for, whether that's bashing people with sowrds at the weekend, or online gaming. There's no meaning to a pre-packaged-shrink-wrapped deal by some anonymous vicar.
I played an online WW2 flight sim for many years called Warbirds. We have done similar tributes for online friends who have passed on. We have had a few "volcano dive" tributes where the masses of players would gather in a vast flying formation, circle the arena, and everyone dive their aircraft in tribute into the crater of a volcano located on one of the islands in the arena. It was a surprisingly moving and emotional gesture to participate in.
----- And all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks, with one word...UNLESS.
You guys have my sympathies.
This sig no verb.
Why do some folks on this board feel the need to criticize how a group of people honored the loss of a casual friend? It's not as if he didn't have a real life funeral for close friends and family. Would it be better if they hadn't done it at all? These are people who othewise wouldn't have known the guy and wouldn't have cared if he dies. But they did care and that's significant.
Would it be more humane if the opposing clans stuck to character and celebrated the death of a sworn enemy? No, because even mortal enemies know when to take a moment of silence.
The conservative part of the media industry has made many arguments that FPS and hack'n'slash games dull people's sensitivity to violence and death, but this proves that gamers know the difference.
Have we seen this much positive human emotion and respect in Israel or Palestine when an 'enemy' is shot, gassed, or brutally blown apart on a bus? No.
I'm proud to be a part of a community that values human life.
$8.95/mo web hosting
So what happened at the end of the funeral? Did everyone slaughter each other? Seems like a great opportunity to miss. It could be like one of those mafia family funerals where someone gets whacked as they're leaving.
In all seriousness. this is a very nice gesture. It may be perceived as a bit sad, but it's a fitting tribute.
Mr. Ken P. -
I am biased in my opinion, so take it how you will..
When people reach out in any form to show support or love or faith, they are doing something GOOD. GOOD for them, GOOD for those who know them, and GOOD for the focus of that energy.
Online, or "VIRTUAL relationships," are very valuable to some. not you apparently. That being said, if someone finds love or beauty in a pure act of kindness, DO NOT belittle it!
Perhaps buying a real plane ticket was YOUR way of showing love and friendship. You gained strength from your overt show of love and support for your online UO friend. This directly contradicts your belief that online relationships should not be considered real!! Don't you realize that?
As for your JFK Jr. example, the masses did not NECESSARILY weep and mourn for the loss of a friend, they wept and mourned for the great blow to our nation. Their own personal security was breached. The notion that they were safe and secure was erased in the blink of an eye. It was a sad and mournful EVENT. (See 9/11/01!!). They also wept for the loss of a great man as they saw him in their MIND. As sadness shows itself when ANY great man or woman is lost. Perhaps you are not old enough to understand this, or perhaps you have a blindness to genuine goodness, and what that truly means.
You should WEEP and MOURN when you remember 9/11 even if you did not know a single victim. Do so for the same reason the nation wept for JFK JR. almost 40 years ago.
maybe if you connect all of the dots from my above response, you will not be blind in the future. genuine acts of kindess, goodness, love, or support should NOT be diminished for their being VIRTUAL. I hope you open your eyes at some point...
read up on the subject. people used to believe the telephone and TV would be the "downfalls of our society." Some would still argue TV's have been a negative influence on community... others will embrace their ability to spread information quickly, to show beauty (see Animal Planet), or perhaps to witness great events and tragedies with your own eyes a million miles from the event, and thus be horrified or inspired and learn from it... The internet is similar, but has the power to combine the power of a telephone with visual connections as well. Thus, VIRTUAL communities are simply a subset of all community types. A SUBSET IN WHICH YOU CAN TAKE FROM THEM WHAT YOU WISH!
me? I mourn the loss of a good person and gamer. I gain strength by seeing the pure goodness of his guild's event. And I don't even play DAOC....
be safe, be good to people.
-oliver petruzel
president, k-oss security solutions inc.
"I think, therefore I get paid."
[NOTE: This is a double posting. it was originally a child post in response to one of the folks on this board who decided to attack the event.. his name was Mr. Ken P. I apologize to those who are annoyed by me reposting it higher for all to read, but i feel it's important.]
,"Sorry Mrs. Doe, your husband died during the sugery. :( ""
I am biased in my opinion, so take it how you will..
When people reach out in any form to show support or love or faith, they are doing something GOOD. GOOD for them, GOOD for those who know them, and GOOD for the focus of that energy.
Online, or "VIRTUAL relationships," are very valuable to some. not you apparently. That being said, if someone finds love or beauty in a pure act of kindness, DO NOT belittle it!
Perhaps buying a real plane ticket was YOUR way of showing love and friendship. You gained strength from your overt show of love and support for your online UO friend. This directly contradicts your belief that online relationships should not be considered real!! Don't you realize that?
As for your JFK Jr. example, the masses did not NECESSARILY weep and mourn for the loss of a friend, they wept and mourned for the great blow to our nation. Their own personal security was breached. The notion that they were safe and secure was erased in the blink of an eye. It was a sad and mournful EVENT. (See 9/11/01!!). They also wept for the loss of a great man as they saw him in their MIND. As sadness shows itself when ANY great man or woman is lost. Perhaps you are not old enough to understand this, or perhaps you have a blindness to genuine goodness, and what that truly means.
You should WEEP and MOURN when you remember 9/11 even if you did not know a single victim. Do so for the same reason the nation wept for JFK JR. almost 40 years ago.
maybe if you connect all of the dots from my above response, you will not be blind in the future. genuine acts of kindess, goodness, love, or support should NOT be diminished for their being VIRTUAL. I hope you open your eyes at some point...
read up on the subject. people used to believe the telephone and TV would be the "downfalls of our society." Some would still argue TV's have been a negative influence on community... others will embrace their ability to spread information quickly, to show beauty (see Animal Planet), or perhaps to witness great events and tragedies with your own eyes a million miles from the event, and thus be horrified or inspired and learn from it... The internet is similar, but has the power to combine the power of a telephone with visual connections as well. Thus, VIRTUAL communities are simply a subset of all community types. A SUBSET IN WHICH YOU CAN TAKE FROM THEM WHAT YOU WISH!
me? I mourn the loss of a good person and gamer. I gain strength by seeing the pure goodness of his guild's event. And I don't even play DAOC....
be safe, be good to people.
-oliver petruzel
president, k-oss security solutions inc.
MR KEN P's original post:
"I find it disturbing that people accept and praise the idea of "Virutal" relationships, "Virtual" friends, and a "Virtual" life. I find it sick that people consider this online funeral "a great showing of compassion" If that were the case they should have sprang a few hundred bucks (or pooled their money so those players that couldn't afford it), flew out to the REAL funeral and made a REAL heart to honor a REAL friend. When a friend of mine from UO died I popped $450 for the plane ticket and wen't to the the funeral. REAL PEOPLE DESERVE A REAL FUNERAL AND IF YOU ARE A REAL FRIEND YOU BETTER DO SOMETHING REAL. Here is the problem, if you identify that these VIRTUAL lives you live have value you open a can of worms the like that has never been seen. If these VIRTUAL activities are EQUAL to real activities in merit and value and you hold them as EQUAL then don't be suprised if someone charges you with VIRTUAL theft, infidelity, emotinal damages, or murder. I refuse to honor such a foolish act. It is no better than those who "wept" and "sobbed" when JFK Jr. died. Sorry YOU NEVER MET HIM AND MOURNING HIM WITH SUCH A PATHETIC DISPLAY ONLY DIMINISHED THE "REAL" GRIEF OF THE FAMILY. Has society slipped to far that the the lines between reality and fiction have slipped so far? If he was a "REAL" friend you should have done something "REAL" to honor him. Next thing you'll be doing is emailing bad news like
"I think, therefore I get paid."
Read #4205566 and then tell me how this can be modded troll.
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
What a sad group of fuckwits.
Christ, get a life.
was it an open-software funeral?
I hate it when people start going "you freaks, wtf?".
I've played MMORPGS for a while now, and yeah, you do get to know people. Maybe not as closely as you would if they were local to you, but still you could consider them good friends.
When one good friend of mine died, I couldn't attend the funeral, but since they organised something in-game, I could still go and show my respect to not only a good player, but also a good person and a good friend.
Perhaps it seems silly to do that in an online game, but why not? It shows that we're all people, and it's just another way of mourning. Same as all those condoleance sites that popped up after 9/11 - that is just the same, except in a different form.
There is no sig...
That was really good. It makes me proud to be a DAOC player, even if I am on a different server.
That was an extremely dignified guesture, I may make a player on that server just to go see the tombstone!
-Coranth/Corynth
Lvl 23 Spear Hero and Level 12 Void Eldritch
why is this pathetic?
... Are you sure?
Because you spend enough time away from real life on a computer to develop these "close" relationships and become a "Level 42 Armsman".
You can say these are "close" relationships, but in fact they are just typical schizoid-type interactions.
These people can be whoever they want online, and you have no REAL idea of who they are, how often they neglect their spouses and/or children due to some silly game.
The mere fact that people attempt to intimate that it's more than a game suggests a problem. When you neglect your responsibilities (kids, wife, job, personal hygiene, personal fitness), there's a problem.
I spent years on the early Internet, wasting time on MUDs and other such crap. Sure they were fun for a while, but it became apparent that I was accomplishing nothing useful.
Note that these comments may or may not be directed at you, specifically. I'm using educated generalizations based on personal experience, acquaintances, and observations.
You have to ask yourself:
- Will I look back years from now, and be happy with all this time spent on online games?
- Am I neglecting my wife and kids?
- Do I smell bad? Is my place in shambles?
- Do I ever plan my real life events AROUND the game?
- Am I proud of how much time and energy I spend playing these games?
If the honest answer to any of these is "no" or "maybe", it's time to quit.
There are probably enough "realms" to waste 30 human lives exploring, but why?
Enjoy reality, instead. It's so much more fascinating, I assure you...
I have seen many comments on the perceived shallowness of an on-line gamer's life.. the "get a life" syndrom. But what if an on-line life is the only life you have access to?
Many people who are physically restricted in their movements find that on-line life is vastly superior to having only doctors and nurses for "friends". Warsinger, with a heart problem, may not have had access to a girlfriend in the "real world" but in a gamer's world he did.
There are lots of reasons people move to on-line life for therapy. I had a young IRC friend who used her on-line life to recover from years of sexual abuse. In my case an on-line life helped me recover from a terrible accident that left me unable to walk at all for a year, and without help for a decade.
Under these circumstances, any friends at all, even "virtual" friends are a step up from what they've got now. And enough of them find their way out of whatever darkness they're in now because of their friends on line.
The expression of sorrow on the part of these gamers for a friend touched me deeply. Some of us have to make our community where we can get the access. And heroic hearts often dwell in unlikely bodies.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
"a microsoft fairy"..
lol... MANNN!..
when the hell are the smart guys out there who constantly bash MS going to realize that it's JUSTA DIFFERENT F*CKING OS! my lord... just because you know nix or macos doesnt make you "brighter"!! my god, grow up..
i know 7 prog languages, and nearly every OS on the planet, and ill say this: THEY ALL SUCK IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND THEY ARE -ALL- POWERFUL FOR ONE THING OR ANOTHER. i just wish i could post this at the top of slashdot's home page... WAAAAKE UP!
"I think, therefore I get paid."
My wife just pointed out that there was in fact an entire episode of the X-Files dedicated to a fanfic writer who had recently passed away. She notes:
o w=5&story=1619&limit=30&sort=
The character of Special Agent Leyla Harrison, who appeared in the episode titled "Alone" in the eighth season was named for online X-Files fan and fanfic writer Leyla Harrison, whose life was cut short in February 2001 when she lost her battle with skin cancer. Leyla herself touched many in the online XF community, so much so that the show's writers wrote this episode as a tribute to her memory. The character was not only named after Leyla, but gently parodied the relationship between the show and the fans.
Special Agent Harrison, as depicted, was a huge fan of Mulder and Scully, like the real Leyla. She was full of X-Files trivia and obscure references, knew more about the cases than Mulder and Scully themselves did, and was brimming with questions like "How did Mulder and Scully get back from Antarctica?" (a reference to the end of the X-Files feature film), pointing out plot holes that fans often obsess over.
The character later made another appearance in an episode in the show's final season, entitled "Scary Monsters."
Here's the recap of "Alone" on Television Without Pity (which used to be Mighty Big TV): http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?sh
Dang. It might be a virtual gesture, but there's around 100 characters in that screen shot. Each one represents a real person -- that's 100 real people moved enough to logon and gather for the ceremony.
And then, there's the girlfriend and sister.
*sniff*
Who was using the term "frags" in the 80s?
Who considers anything after the net existed and the term 'frags' came into being "the bbs days".
Karma whores abound.
I met and fell in love with my fiance (of 4 years now) in EverQuest, I moved to be with him and we have been together in "RL" for 3 years. We currently both play DAoC on one of the new PvP servers. My guild, which came over from EQ is very close knit, and we all would gladly stand up for each other in RL as well as in game. I have made friends in MMORPGs that are as lasting and real as any RL friend I have, and I also play with and stay close to my family through MMORPGs (as my brothers both play). MMORPGs have become a real community, even if it is a virtual one, the feelings felt in our virtual community are just as close as what we feel in RL.
Kyri/Kyriani Wyrmsinger
Mordred server DAoC
Qui tacet consentit
But what's real once we're all dead? What's playing and what's not?
From my Christian perspective (eternal life/death, finite world): The world doesn't really matter in the end, the people do.
Virtual world, real world, whatever. The thoughts count, the people are real.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:21-22
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matt 5:27-28
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
This concept is becoming even more applicable nowadays as the lines between thought, speech and deed are getting blurrier. Good or bad deeds can be done with just a few keystrokes or mouse clicks. Soon you just need to think it to do it, and what is done is just changing a bunch of numbers in computers - just numbers controlling money, ownership, ID, lives, the fate of nations etc.
Damned Freaks
Saying that this was an online gathering of "characters," mere ones and zeros, is completely incomprehensible. If it had been videoconference or teleconference instead, would you have said the same thing? At what point does it become "real enough" for you people? What is so special about physical nearness? Why does it become less meaningful if it just so happens that the big bunch of atoms I call "my body" is far away from that big bunch of atoms you call "your body?"
Do I suddenly become nothing more than an electrical wave if I speak over the telephone? No, I don't. Don't reduce these people to "characters" simply because they met over the Internet.
I couldn't understand from your post if you have a wife and three kids
or not. I do. My wife and I have been married 10 years. I have a 4
year old boy, a 20 month old boy and a 8 month old girl. I think 14 -
18 hours a week that is purely personal discretionary time is a little
optimistic. If I totally cut out all TV I would still only be getting
about half that.
Even still, the reality is not quite what you paint. You're
forgetting all the other responsibilities of life. I do more than
sleep, have a full-time job, play with kids, and have a hoby. Even
with my wife as a full-time mother there is still lots of
time-killers: cooking, shoping, cleaning, home maintenance. These
things take on par of 20 hours of my time a week. That doesn't
include stuff like personal study (philosophical, religous, technical,
or other academic) or physical fitness which don't qualify as a hobby
for me.
The other thing your time slicing doesn't take into account is the
affects of low sleep on aged people. I'm only 30, but I still don't
function very well with less than 7 hours of sleep. Even with over 7
hours of sleep, it still doesn't do me as much good when it's
interrupted by babies in the night. Anyway, going to bed at Midnight
or 1:00am and getting up at 6:00am or 7:00am doesn't cut it for me.
To get up at those hours, I need to be in bed by 10:00pm or 11:00pm.
Doug Alcorn
They stood in shape of a heart, that is a symbol for love. Not a symbol for the heart attack.
If it was a symbol for a heart attack it would have been a picture of a REAL heart, and the warriors would be stepping in/stepping out and then suddenly stop.
A form of a cross is a respect to a particular brand of religion. If they were going to symbolize the actuall crucifiction someone would have to be a nail and be driven 'into' the cross.
Look at the articles next time.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Someone please post the obituary.
It's sad that he died. It's even more sad that people get sucked into those online roleplaying environments and somehow think they are an important aspect of thier lives.
People do stuff like this on MUDs all the time, so it ain't exactly "NEW"s.
I'd much rather be remembered by a group of people who I closely gamed with and linked with intellectually than a bunch of boozers who I met in a bar and partied with a few times...
Do you also think it is lame when professional athletes wear black armbands during games after someone significant to the sport dies? Is it lame for soldiers to fire guns at a veteran's funeral? Is it lame for someone to have their ashes spread at a place they loved in life?
The parallel I'm drawing, before someone flames me for comparing a veteran to a video game addict, is the idea that it's normal for people to remember someone through something important in that person's life. You may think having a video game be so key to one's life is pathetic, but if that's what he loved, so be it, let him be remembered through it.
Wow it's amazing anytime you put your karma on the line, no matter how insignifcant your comment may be, that suddenly you get all the karma you can ask for.
You, good sir, are a moron.
But think of the waste of resources keeping me alive before I reach the sweet release of being "obliterated once and for ever".
Suicide centers, where I could go and off myself without having to tweak on someone finding me or not getting the dosage right or whatever. The resources spent on establishing them would still be less than the resources I waste every stinking day I have to continue my pathetic, painful existence because I'm too much of a coward to do it myself.
Sure, I think this was a cool thing to do.
But c'mon. We've been consoling each other over real life deaths since the days of usenet.
Rather than replying.
I think I know why fewer people showed than I expected.
The location of the funeral ingame, Caer Benowyc, is a keep on the Albion frontier.
There are relatively nasty critters wandering around the area - Dangerous for people as high as 37 when solo, and probably dangerous for anyone under 25-30 even when escorted. (My guild was congratulating me for making it there solo w/o dying - Not easy.)
It's also the farthest keep out for Albion players, through some really dangerous terrain.
The only safe place to have the funeral would've been in Midgard, but that would've prevented anyone from Albion or Hibernia from participating.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I see his sister/girlfriend, who is the other one?
I just want to say if the one poster is correct and his mother went online to let people know he had passed away, then that was a pretty nice thing to do.
Whether it was good or bad spending that much time online (I didn't know the guy, I'm simply reading the arguments of other posters.); but at least he had people who understood he had friends online and were willing to notify them.
Why is this a troll? It's funny.
As my father lik@(munch munch)...
The term frag derives from fragmentation grenade and has been in use since Vietnam when it was coined to denote the killing of one's superior and making it look like an accident.
illegitimii non ingravare
I read through the posts and what I found interesting is that they took his virtual character to this place and killed his character during the funeral.
Yes, thanks for posting that!
I absolutely agree. A name is simply a way to refer to a person with minimum confusion.
When you enter the "online world", you normally choose to carry on conversation under a "nick", "handle", or whatever you'd like to call it. It's every bit as customary as it is to give a child a first, middle, and last name when he/she is born. (Also, don't forget, these assumed names are picked out by each individual when they go online - so they do have meaning. Perhaps, they have more meaning to a person than their real name, which was assigned to them by their parents before they were old enough to have a say-so in it.)
When I used to go to regular "get-togethers" a local IRC channel organized, the only way we really put faces to the names was to call each other by the "nicks" we knew them as. Sure, eventually, you'd make an effort to learn their real names too. (After all, you're in the real world with them... not just behind a screen any longer, so it seems appropriate.) But ultimately, more people could always recite who was who by their nicks than by their real names.
First, you should realize that the English language, especially in the USA, is not static. Words are added or modified over time through common usage. Like it or hate it, "alot" is very commonly used and is considered by some to actually be a valid word now.
By the way, while expounding on the "its" vs. "it's" grammar rules, you misspelled "illiteracy". Please use a spell checker. Thank you. Have a nice day. Please drive through.
I may be a bit sappy, but I looked at the picture first. When I read that it was his sister and gf in the middle, I got goosebumps. That is very cool.
I started using IRC waaay back. Then gravitated into MUDs, good old Compuserve games, and various NGs and Forums. And I'm a frequent participant on several mailing lists.
That said, I have to say you seem to have a very jaundiced perspective when you say you've yet to meet people who are fit, eat right, talk right, and have charisma about them who play EQ or MUDs.
I have quite a few friends who play EQ or DAoC(even to the point of disappearing for an entire weekend to play). Many of them are highly paid programmers, sales support engineers, application designers, etc. People who work in close-knit real-world teams all the time. Many of them also play ultimate frisbee, softball, soccer, etc. - team sports. And a fair few have webs of social contacts that boggle my mind, and I have so many friends I can't keep up with them all.
Now, I've met some of the people you seem to think all EQers or MUDers represent... there are some. But then I've met plenty of maladjusted or poorly socialized people outside of the game world, so I have no reason to suspect a huge correlation.
Your assumption seems to be that these people are developing on-line friends INSTEAD of off-line ones. My experience has been that off-line friends get sucked into common on-lne activities and that the intersection of the on-line and off-line friend sets is high.
The Internet has allowed me to meet people in Australia, Sweden, UK, Tasmania, NZ, Spain, Germany, etc. A lot of them have offered me a place to stay when travelling. I've purposefully travelled to the US to meet many of my on-line buddies (after knowing them for a few years on-line) and real-world friendships I expect to endure have formed. Some have even blossomed into annual pilgrimages. None of that could have happened before the Internet very easily. And these aren't unhappy, poorly socialized, unfit, or immature folks - quite the contrary.
Then again, this may reflect the character of the populations of the lists I hang out on, the forums I frequent, etc. So maybe it is just a case of needing to expand your horizons?
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
I've never played DAOC, but if the people online are that kind, it gives me a warm fuzzy. Good job, guys.
Slightly OT, but worth mentioning - Ive had a SS51g for 4 weeks now and it is perfect - P4, 2Gig of ram and an AGP port with an asus Ti4600 = a serious "real" PC, with a tiny form factor. Also really convenient for lanning, and garanteed to pull a crowd (the full-tower crew tends to shut up veeery quickly when you pop the top and they see what goodies are inside ;)
The added convenience of being able to use all standard PC componentry, very quiet and efficient internal cooling (my biggest concern with the new machine) and more ports than you can poke a stick at make it the perfect machine IMHO.
I think it doesn't really matter whether grieving is real or imagined. If somebody's feeling something, they have the right to express it. On the other hand, our information society is at a really scary crossroads. Media, and interactive media is still media, wants to be hyperreal. It wants to be more intense, more interesting and more intimate that real life. Adbusters published a pretty enlightening piece by sociologist Todd Gitlin that expresses this problem.
The question, then, is: Do we really want virtual intimacy to replace actual intimacy? Personally, I think it's still a poor imitation.
Success will mostly depend on one's luck. Is the boy that Suzy meeting for coffee really just a slick talking sociopath? Is the girl Freddy talks to in IRC really just a guy? Who knows?!
Sure, there are textual clues. Some people are better at reading text clues than verbal and physical cues. Some people are better at the IRL game. Many people are just plain clueless and will end up with the sociopath no matter what.
I bolded "many people," because, what I think tends to happen is that people get fed with up failures IRL and move online thinking they'll stand better chances. That's not always the case, and what you end up with are pockets of community where sociopath and clueless victim are drawn to each other.
You also end up with other kinds of pockets of community. Meeting likeminds is great. Spending all your free time stalking MOBs, looking at tentacle porn or trading fursuits with likeminds is probably not such a hot idea. Your buddies won't challenge you. They won't say, "gee, maybe filling your mind with anime rape porn isn't such a healthy idea." Or they won't say, "maybe you should stop trying to level today and go look for a job."
Some of my old online buddies have gone the obsession route. I can't hold a conversation with them anymore. If I asked them, they'd say they're very happy with their new online friends and user meets, but I sense an undercurrent of discontent, malaise. Nobody wants to live a one-dimensional life.
Also, if you have played for any longer than a month and have experience in multiple RPG's (table top, MUD, etc) and like DAOC you will undoubtedly admit that while an 'excellent game' is DAOC... a RPG it is _NOT_.
I try not to judge people or this event here and say it is 'shallow' except to be a lesson to all. Like the original poster said, this very well could have been the only real life for this and many other individuals. This can be good and bad, so please remember to use caution in glorifying or condemning the game, players, or reactions/actions of players in events and situations such as this. It might seem silly and a bit dishonorable to use an in game salute/funeral for a real person... but is that any different than a football team wearing a patch and dedicating the season/next game to a fallen player or staff member? What about a military salute? A warrior does his duty for the benefit of his kinsmen and way of life (of course there are simple fighters that are nationalists but I am talking about patriots). If a warrior dies in battle, why do his buddies risk their life to gather his body? (I am talking about when they KNOW he is dead, not a chance to save him) Well, it is too complex to detail here and I am not equating that action to this in game funeral, but only comparing on the basis of doing what is 'appropriate' which is very relative for the person who died, the family/friends, and those honoring them.
Please let this be a reminder that there _IS_ life outside the games, conferences, work and projects. Too many fathers have learned all too late that while their intentions where good to bring home such 'wealth and security' they forgot to love their family and provide for them in the basic ways that humans need. This can be said for people that overdo any aspect, from gaming, excercise, drugs, drinking, porn, tv, books, etc. Remember that ANY crutch can be the very bane of our lives if we loose our vigilence.
Now I am thinking about a little tale that is funny as well as wise (which often go together):
A bird flying south late in the season finds his wings freezing rapidly and can only slow but not stop his rapid descent into the ground. Landing to save himself, he finds that his hard landing and numb wings will prevent any current take offs even though the storm is growing worse and snow is falling on the ground now. Asking a cow for help, the stupid creature merely looks back, Moos and then drops its feces on our poor little feathered friend. Horrified and angered greatly, the bird cusses loudly at the retreating cow and only realizes later that the warmth of the cow poop is thawing his wings off to fly. However, he is so dirty that he must first wash off to fly correctly but instists on complaining and cussing loudly at his 'horrible state.' Then his savior arrives, and gently licks, paws and removes the crap from his body. Before he can properly finish his thanks, his feline savior breaks his neck in its jaws and devours him.
Lesson: not all those who seem to shit on you are your enemies, and not all those who clean you out of it are your friends. Don't believe it? Just ask any surviving Marine from Nam, WW2 or Korea and they will tell you that while they bear no real love for any DI, they can damn well thank a good number of them for the lessons that kept their sorry asses alive when it mattered.
The reality is that the computer using world consists of a disproportionate amount of males. All of the Everquest polls always indicate that males outnumber females by enormous margins. Further, it is simply the case that many of these males would not fare at all as well in actual physical social interaction as they do in game. Yes, you can certainly delude yourself into thinking otherwise if you find that you can not accept the reality of the class of people who you socialize with because you can not accept that image of yourself, but it is nonetheless a delusion.
Further, we as humans do indeed betray our belief that physical relationships are superior to purely online relationships. The eventual outcome of a serious and continuing online relationship is meeting face to face. We as normally functioning human beings have an undeniable curiosity to see what the person on the other side of the monitor looks like. We hope that those we have relationships with are ideally structured, hansome human beings. Being accepted by ideally structured, hansome human beings provides incalcuable boosts to our own self-images.
I think you underestimate the significance of relationships based on other conduits of intimacy. The phrase that comes to my mind comes from the third chapter in Ulysses where Joyce expounds on the "ineluctable modality of sound". Stephen walks on a beach, with his eyes closed noting how this radically transforms his perception of the environment. The point made is that the senses through which you experience something play a fundamental role in shaping your experience of the event.
The reason I found this so compelling is that it offered insight into my relationship with my father who, due to congenital blindness and perhaps inherent inhibitions, makes little use of the methods you cite. While these factors have shaped and somewhat constrained our relationship, I feel a stronger bond with him than I observe in many other father-son relationships.
I fully agree that text based communication is a very different thing from face-to-face interaction, as is a telephone conversation, or a videoconference. In some ways, it is actually a more intimate experience. Though you have the opportunity to censor yourself, something about the medium seems to bypass defense mechanisms, often resulting in far more uninhibited and passionate discourse than would result from a face to face encounter. Thus the ubiquitous flamewars and sexual chatter that erupt in such forums. You also have the opportunity to engage in very deliberate speech, to ensure that your words express clearly what you are trying to convey. In a MMORPG you observe others behaviour in a cooperative or, as I find more interesting, competitive setting, their response to adversity and power, to stress and victory. In my experience the resulting friendships formed can be strong, on the order of that between between coworkers, or sporting buddies.
Offtopic of what? Someone posted something that could be interpreted as a troll, and someone commented on it. Trying to moderate meta-moderation is just a waste of mod points, and not very nice either.
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In DAOC when you die, a grave is placed where you die and you lose a portion of experience - you can pray at the grave to gain a percentage of that experience back. If you don't pray at your grave, it will stay there for an extended period of time. The player who died enjoyed making sure that this particular keep was safe. It was a personal objective to him. The grave at the keep was meant as an ongoing reminder of his memory.
Still, it is good to see a testiment to the strength of relationships that can form on the internet.
The ties that /bind, in Dark Age of Camelot, do not restrict themselves to the interpersonal. Read this story of a summoned Cabalist pet, loved by many, who a realm chose to /follow and /bow down to til death by his master's hand tore him away from them:
1 07 &replies=48
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=35356
For Steve!
(people are strange)
________
Yst - 50 Bard - Guinevere
As in the story here this is another example that im sure will be ridaculed from those that do not play online games or dislike them.. but here it is :)*
As with any online game Dark Age of Camelot has built a community of close friends, but in this instance over 800 users from 3 different Realms (sides or teams of the server) gathered in total peace for over 2 hrs to Tribute the death of a fallen friend. Thanks to the Order of Imperial Knights (MMORPG GUILD) for the video. Shortly after Italian servers also held a tribute for Bruic Elfslayer of Forsaken Guard (MMORPG Guild) Rest well Bruic, Well miss ya -Percival Server Community
How the hell does these people, who only knew him online, showing their grief "lessen" the grief of his family and real-life friends?
re you so shallow, so limited in thought processes, so narrow in vision that you can't allow these people to show their grief in a way that they can?
You probably find the Irish Wake to be offensive, too.
You are truly pathetic.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
"No moderation without representation"
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
NO text, foo'
None of the people here who say Warsinger was a fat geek that should have gone and exercised have any grounds to say that.He could have had any number of medical conditions that self-care wouldn solve.
Sorry greygent, one's personal responsibilities are just that: personal.
While your editorial doesn't impact me directly, since I don't game online, I am compelled to reply.
I fufill all of my responsiblities: familial, occupational and societal. I refuse to contribute any more to society than I currently do. I live my life, no one else does, and I'll live it how I damn well please. Am I being selfish? Yes. Am I ethically wrong? No.
The attempts by you and other people like you to force-fit my life into your standards of behavior are repugnant to me and I catagorically refuse to conform to anyone else's ethics, except where those ethics coincidentally match my own.
Be happy I'm not a criminal or other social parasite. Leave me alone and I promise to stay out of your life (and everyone else's for that matter). Get in my face about my behavior, and I'll shamelessly flaunt it even more.
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
To me Christians wearing crucifixes is like showing up at JFK's funeral with a rifle pin on your jacket. "Sorry about John, Jackie..."
- Raise a tankard of mead?
- Fire a 21-bow salute?
- Give all your gold pieces to his fair maiden?
It's the 21st fucking century. Medieval times are gone. Forever. Grow the fuck up.How often do players die unnoticed, their accounts becoming inactive and the few who knew them figuring they had simply stopped playing the game? On Battle.net, I knew many many people, and while some would go on vacations, and then come right back, others simply disappeared with time.. Unless a gamer has a spouse or sibling who plays the same game, and knows their password, no one will ever know what happened to them. This reminds me of the dead man's trigger, where the program executes certain tasks if not reset every once in a while. Nothing of the sort exists for computer games, however. Imagine dying and your best friend never knowing what happened to you. The death of a gamer is almost always unnoticed, by those who they were quite possibly closest to.
Or what?
the only online game i play is gambling,and i'm fuckin good.wanna bet me?
I think it's pretty cool people can come together to remember a good friend like that, myself. Too many people consider "online" to be the equivalent of "not real". Sure the game and the killing may not be real, but the friendships you make are just as real as the people you make them with.
Brian "Psychochild" Green
Co-Founder, Near Death Studios, Inc.
Brian "Psychochild" Green
MMO developer's blog
When I die I hope someone does that for me (probably not in an online game, as I'm not a big fan, but where I hang out, in real life or somewhere else). Kudos to whoever organized it.
sulli
RTFJ.
You'll be remembered on 20721, flikee, whether you like it or not!
This is sickening. Get a grip on reality you smelly unwashed goth nerds.
my poorly written, rambling story really got quite a few people to take the bait. Stupid inchfan clubhouse!
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.