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Microsoft To Make Wireless Networking Hardware
traskjd writes "Microsoft are looking to increase their strength in the hardware market with wireless and conventional networking hardware according to this story on cnet. Microsoft has always been slow at moving into the hardware market... could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future? Lets hope not..." There's also a Reuters article. There was a story last year that mentioned Microsoft was working on Win-WiFi - 802.11b hardware that exported some of the processing to the CPU in much the same manner as a winmodem, and thus was cheaper to produce. These stories don't mention anything about that, so probably these are conventional 802.11b devices.
I'm sure if they make hardware, they'll make it compatiable to work with *other* operating systems. Right?
;)
Hehe...
Expect to see people start to spontaneously combust around their laptops. For the first few releases, anyway.
Will Microsoft make this equipment or just slap a logo on somebody else's?
I do like my Microsoft keyboard, it's great when it sits in my lap.
It is about time wireless networking became mainstream, and this will make it so.
Can you imagine the EULA Microsoft would have on a router?
I bet they would have some legaleese saying they can access you're network at anytime.
Microsoft...entering...wireless...market...
too...many...security...jokes...
head...exploding...
Furture Windows Msg:
"Sorry, you cannot use Explorer.exe at this time. The CPU's resources are being used to serve the WinWiFi router."
"Old man yells at systemd"
but usually Microsoft hardware isn't bad at all. I like their USB mice quite a bit, and their natural ergonomic keyboard is pretty cool. So as far as their hardware record, they've had a good reputation (IMHO).
I'd predict that their wireless networking hardware may turn up to be a good quality product.
Blue Sky Of Death. Those aren't clouds, they're core dumps and stack traces. I can see Fatal Exception right there next to the cloud that looks like Bill Gates giving you the middle finger.
mp3's are only for those with bad memories
Can anyone see why Microsoft is getting into the hardware business?
but winmodems that used the CPU were a bloody disaster. I never saw one that worked right.
Please, whoever makes these new things, leave the CPU alone.
This is a pretty crowded market, the hub and switch space. But if anybody can do it, it's MS. It's not like they need to be profitable in the shot term on this sort of thing (or anything for that matter).
I am sure that Microsoft (no $, see?) will do a good job of buying wireless networking hardware from some communist Chinese company, and putting it in boxes marked "Microsoft".
There are two types of people; those who divide people into two types of people, and those who don't.
Isn't this company a monopoly? Shouldn't someone be raising the red flag to this? Oh, right, I forgot, M$ is in bed with the justice department. Gotta love our free market capitalistic society that just doesn't work when it's being run by corrupt cronies.
So, will their software favour their hardware? How soon before the lawyers smell blood in the water?
If it was Cowboy Neal in his garage making them out of tin cans would you say the same thing?
Dont eat yellow snow
If you think wireless networking is easy as looking for the chalk marks now, just wait until MS style "security" becomes the standard!
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future? Lets hope not.
What is up with all the negative articles on MS Hardware?
Take a look at your mouse! Have you ever used an MS Joystick?
Sure, lots of you have complaints with MS's OS's. Some of you hate the whole "Major Corportation" thing.
But, damnit, MS MAKES GOOD HARDWARE!
I've used MS Mice, and MS Sidewinders for YEARS and they still work GREAT!
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I don't trust anything wireless. Not even a wireless mouse. Sorry, I just like having cords... it makes me feel more secure. Microsoft + wireless is NOT a good idea. However, it might be a great way to show Joe Sixpack that MS products are not secure, when he gets hacked by the script kiddie across the street.
Happy New Year, it's 1984!
When you buy a MS Wireless Router, it comes packed in powdered chalk.
WinModem, WinPrinter, WinWifi, Win..., and running on Windows. It's going to be the slowest, most crashprone system around! Maybe this is why Captain Kurk could convince 5 different computers to self destruct, they were all running Windows on Win hardware. I'd also self destruct the first chance I had, if I had to deal with that.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I'm sure Microsoft's software will work better with it's own hardware - they'll see to it.
As they push into the hardware market, their offerings may become preferred for their functionality. You may have noticed this simplicity with the Microsoft IntelliMouse and Internet Keyboard. Plug them in and they are detected and function properly - drivers are pre-installed mostly.
If their hardware is easier to configure, more people may buy it, ultimately convincing Microsoft to produce their own line of computers. Because all parts are built and tested within the company, people will say "It Just Works"
But then there will be people complaining that Microsoft is just money grubbing bastards and want all the profits for themselves...
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Do you guys think this might tie in with the whole Palladium platform?
I just can't believe Microsoft will be making hardware for people who warchalk..
They must be thieves!
For those who may be humor impaired, this post was tongue in cheek
I have enough troubles with the crappy software/drivers for a winmodem... now MS wants to add a winwifi card... will the machine be fuctional or a rock?
lol
what next...
New bookmarks:p ://security.microsoft.com/routers
http://nouters.windowsupdate.com
htt
New Licensing:
Your router subscription has expired. Would you like to pay another $79 dollars for the next 12 months?
New Animation:
Paperclip: Hi! I see your trying to access the internet. Can I help you?
New Monitoring:
We have deteted a P2P application running on your network. Your router has been disabled. Please call 1-800-RIAA-Pal to correct this.
New Dialog boxes:
You are using an inferior browser. Are you SURE you want to do this? [Yes] [No]
Remember the SoftCard, a Z80 card that let you run CP/M on an Apple II?
Microsoft mice have a great reputation and they're actually pretty innovative about them.
Internet Explorer for UNIX has been discontinued. The bastards at Redmond pulled the wool over Solaris and HP/UX users' eyes. The download links are still up, though, so get it while it lasts! MozillaZine has the details. How much longer until Mac IE is pulled? Damn you M$!
Given Palladium, one should expect MS to start making networking hardware.
by producing hardware that refuses entry from any non-certified applications and hardware, they further secure their world (aka, pockets) within the constraints of their Palladium (money-making) scheme.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As we all know how insecure wireless is anyway, this will be a perfect market for Microsoft to venture into. They can waltz into this market with impunity, comforted in the knowledge that no matter how many security holes are identified in their OS, there will always be 802.11b to use as an excuse for not addressing them.
I want to know how long it will take before it gets hacked??
How much chance is there of Microsoft releasing Linux drivers for these products, and would they be released under the GNU license?
It will probably be the first router, WiFi device that is not compatible with *ix, Mac, etc.
In the end, there will be only monopolies!
For computers, Microsoft.
For restaurants, Taco Bell.
If you dont believe me, watch Demolition Man!
"Get Moose and Squirrel!"
You will get a Clippy with every router, proposing you like "I notice that you are trying to add v.w.x.y, shall I also add a.b.c.d for you?". You answer no, but somehow, the configuration seems to be changed, but you cannot exactly see how...
...
Also, you will get switches that you only edit via switchedit, a regedit decendant.
Plus of course, all the bugs you can eat, as usual
Of course, don't forget to add some 64 Mb of memory in your switch. Errm, yes that is per port, of course...
And in addition to that, if you don't pay your license fees, your routers will cease to function after exactly one year!
But wait, there is more! You can run a wordprocessor from your switches (upgrade required), and we even provided some games free of charge.
Thanks, but no thanks - I'll stay with Cisco...
Mark
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Microsoft is going to put out another product. Or replace the TP in their corporate bathrooms with 2-ply.
So I get to watch idiotic, paranoid and delusional comments get modded up to +5.
"Oh no they're going to use 802.11 to conquer the world. They're persecuting linux users and sending them to death camps, or forcing them to toil in the underground salt mines."
So what if they want to sell peripherals? They can sell beowulf clusters full of hot grits, for all I care.
Noone gets this paranoid when another large company with dominance in one market announces a new product line. I didn't see anyone get freaked out when Sony announced its Vaio line. "Oh my god! They're going to use the power of playstation to strip my rights away and kill baby kittens."
Diversifying is what companies do to ensure future profitibility. It's foolish to leave all of your eggs in one basket.
Big fat hairy deal. Take a deep breath and join us in the real world, the weathers fine.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Apple.
All me and my roommate could thing when we heard this was.
All your data belong to us...
Oh well
Aren't all M$ hardware activities just low (zero?) cost ways of getting the name "Microsoft" written in as many places to do with computers as possible?
Nothing to see here. Move along.
I'm sure if they make hardware, they'll make it compatiable to work with *other* operating systems. Right?
Remember: Microsoft still makes Office for Mac OS X. I don't think Microsoft would go to the trouble of requiring a copy of Connectix Virtual PC and Microsoft Windows for the Mac version of the product.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It saddens me even more that, not only did the person who submitted the story make the mistake, but the editor(s) didn't catch it either. *sigh*
Let's hope not.
Damn! Just when you think that the SlashDot editorial team has managed to pull themselves out of the quagmire of juvenile bias against anything originating from Redmond, "michael" drags them back in...
I have a Microsoft keyboard, joystick, and game console, and have been tres pleased with them all. All of these objects have been competitively priced, and have never conflicted with any of the other objects in my house. Geez, even my XBox gets along fabulously with my $ony TV. Go figure!
So, based upon my real life experience as a technically-minded albeit happily mainstream consumer, I'm tickled that MS is getting into the wireless game. It will accelerate adoption of that type of connectivity a hundred fold, which will in turn drive access/bandwidth fees down.
I mean, fellas, really! Is anyone over college age still subscribing to this "Microsoft as Evil Empire" cartoon?
I wonder who they'll steal the design from for this product.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
From the folks who make 98 lite. According to the site, it does not work for XP or 2000 SP2 or later.
Xbox is OK, the keyboards are good, and their mice rule.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
What do you expect on a pro-linux site when there's an MS article? About 99% of the comments are just jabs at MSFT that have been done hundreds of times by Linux zealots. Nope, that routine never gets old around here.
As for MS hardware, I am most impressed with the IntelliMouse. I just wish(is there one already?) MS made drivers where you could have mouse "profiles". Currently, the thumb buttons only work for IE, where they would be great as undo/redo buttons in Photoshop, PSP, etc, or set 'em to what you like. I remember doing some tweak to turn the middle button(wheel button) on my Logitech mouse into a double-click action.
As for their MS keyboard, I just got one in my cubicle, and wonder why there's a "stop" button(I'm assuming for IE). Escape, located less than an inch away from it functions just fine as "Stop". Back and Forward are redundant since you can just Alt+leftarrow & Alt+rightarrow. Hopefully with a bit of searching I can make the buttons do whatever I want, and I'll just relabel them.
Flamebait. I read the article, and it seems like Microsoft as a corporation just wants to produce more hardware. Does that mean anything to the slashdot world? Zilch. Nada. Zippo. No one wants to hear that Microsoft is producing hardware, or did produce hardware earlier. They just want to say that anything microsoft is bad. period. dot. end of sentence. etc.,
Sorry about the self-disclaimer, but I wanted to clarify.
I don't mean Apple invented everything they "made happen" - only that they prepared the way for the popularity of many innovations.
GUI, Multimedia, networking, USB, FireWire, AirPort...
--
Now back to your regularly scheduled ranting.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Microsoft need UPnP to succeed if Messenger is to realise its full potential. They probably need it for other planned projects too. I imagine they're entering the market in order to drive adoption of these standards more quickly.
I have an SMC Barricade 7004AWBR. I've been waiting an age for the firmware update that finally provides me with UPnP. It hasn't come. I rather suspect it may never come. For all the natty little plastic boxes, I honestly don't think the networking people are used to the speed of the consumer market. Microsoft certainly is, and I can see any routers it might produce being updated a lot faster than many of the current offerings.
Cheers,
Ian
This is just Microsoft's way of linking all the Borg Drones (aka Windows PCs) into the hive mind ^_^
If you suddenly notice IE going to sites other than the one you wanted, don't worry: Your Drone's just been consulting with all the other Drones, and the consensus was you wanted to visit Microsoft.com rather than linux.org.
On the plus side, this means new technologies will be assimilated much easier, and your PC will be able to repair itself using the power of the group mind.
Maran
Yeah, I have a feeling that Microsoft will do something really bad with this, something akin to their Digital music protection crusade. Well, that fact that it will be like a win-modem is enough.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
All of the hardware is based on Intersil's Prism2 chipset, which means that the Linux Prism2 drivers will work on the MSFT cards. Check out this article. Microsoft's page is here.
I have a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical, FreeBSD autodetected it perfectly. It's got to be one of the best mice I ever had and is extremely precise. I would welcome Microsoft's entry into the hardware market if they continued to make products like this.
I'm looking forward to any hardware MS produces, they have a fabulous track record for hardware.
Intellimouse: A huge favorite for FPS heads since Qtest. Now outdated, but clearly a legend in its own.
Intellimouse Explorer: Still the best optical mouse on the market and the new 3.0 version is much improved.
Flightsticks & Gamepads: Superb durability and simplicity, compatible nearly every game, excellent Linux drivers (not thx to MS). I would never venture with a Logitech or Thrustmaster again.
Keyboards: Light, tactile, comfortably angled keys, function buttons that can be reassigned in many OS's incl. Linux.
Warranty: I buy all my MS hardware at Staples and get instant replacements whenever needed, though I've had no problems to date. I did return an intellimouse, but that had more to do with spilled beer than faulty hardware.
I may have my beefs with MS software, but all of the MS hardware I've used has been first class.
More information: http://www.securityoffice.net/mssecrets/
Usually when some manufacturer OEMs something, you can find the noname OEM version elsewhere if you look.
Have *YOU* ever seen a mouse that looks like the Intellimouse Explorer? If MS just OEM-brands other people's hardware, then why were Microsoft mice the only all-surface-optical (As opposed to the old Sun grid-optical) mice for quite some time until Agilent's optical mouse reference chipset/lens design came out?
If MS is rebranding their hardware, show me proof. Show me WHO they're rebranding other than saying, "oh, I think they're rebranding someone". It's usually pretty easy/obvious due to the hardware being physically identical to a few others on the market. (All those cheapie opticals are all the same, but MS and Logitch mice are all unique)
Good examples of OEMing that's easy to find:
Palm III/IBM Workpad. (I think some Workpads were Palm V clones too) - Same shape, the Workpads happened to be black instead of grey.
Compaq printers - These are obviously rebranded Lexmarks.
AT&T printers - This was MANY years ago, but their dot-matrix printers were either rebranded OKI or Epson printers, can't remember.
I normally dislike MS, but their input devices division is the only portion where all the crap they spew about innovating is true. They DID come up with the wheel idea. (Which I passed off as a gimmick until I played with one at work - Now I can't survive w/o the wheel.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The trolls are now parodying each other. :)
The "Mira", a VNC-knock-off hardware/software packaged concept, should first start shipping around Christmas time this year. It uses 802.11b wireless, XP Pro, Microsoft's RFB protocol from a Windows CE .Net (4.0) device to let you use your PC from anywhere in your house.
This packaged concept is obviously too difficult for most low-end consumers to assemble themselves, so it makes sense that Microsoft offer a wireless hardware component that they can borg more completely into the whole. Eventually all of the other hardware manufacturers will have to adopt whatever extensions Microsoft introduces in this hardware/software combo in order to offer their customers an equivilently pleasing out of box experience, and Mira gets locked in on the consumer market.
January announcement
WinHEC PowerPoint presentation
This isn't a mouse or a "natural keyboard" we're talking about here. This is stuff which requires actual drivers. Complicated drivers.
Keep something in mind: when Microsoft released its previous generation of hardware (mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc.) they weren't thinking about Linux at the time. They felt confident that they owned the PC space. Nowadays, even though they still have the monopoly more or less intact, they do know that Linux is looking to break into that space, and has a better than fair chance of doing so.
Microsoft needs to de-commoditize the PC platform.
The best way to de-commoditize the PC platform is to turn it into the Windows PC Platform. Palladium is a big part of this, to be sure. Whatcha wanna bet that these new Win-Fi(tm) devices are going to tie into the Palladium infrastructure for security? And of course their chipsets will be full of Innovative Microsoft Patented Technology. Try to write a Linux driver... get smacked by the DMCA.
Over the last year or two, some of the WinModem chipset makers have started to warm up to Linux -- by releasing specs or by writing actual drivers. You can be sure that if Microsoft is the chipset maker, the binary-only, Windows-only drivers will come directly out of Redmond.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
sorry about being so far off-topic, but i just had to say that after reading your sig i had to go rent spaceballs... it had been too long since i'd seen it. Thanks for reminding us all about a great movie woefully lost to hollywierd.
Moo.
now we can have WiFi hardware that is as easy to crack and break into as Windows 2000 and XP!
Thanks microsoft!
Microsoft is sotware company first and foremost. They make these moves into hardware where they see a niche they can fill, or where it will push adoption of more of their software. Cisco produces IOS. Are they a software company? Nope---it pushes their hardware. Same thing with MS, but in reverse. /. and crew are sensationilizing this a little more than it needs to be. I'd expect MS to do well with the consumer market, as long as the hardware is up to snuff.
Many die-hard Mac heads choose M$ keyboards and mice. USB = Plug and Play, on the Macintosh.
Aopen optical mice are generic logitech. So no logitech mice are not all unique.
This is your final warning. Microsoft now has, a cheap pc (xbox) and networking hardware. Your business is under attack and you don't know it. Why do you still support the enemy?
OK, so I need to rant. The Slashdot croud sometimes has their head up their asses when it comes to technology companies. Some hate/love everything one particular company does. But the problem is you condemn the product because it is made by a company rather than look at each product made by the company.
Case and point the Xbox. It is hands down the best video game system on the market. MS did their homework with this one. They looked at the little things, longer cords so the unit can sit on a shelf, bigger controlers for the bigger hands of the american market, top of the line graphics. And for the 99.9% of video game players that don't hack their systems, the license restrictions are not a big deal. (I realize that game selection differs, and for a FF player a PS2 is a better system)
Now look at their recent OS's. XP as an OS has improved exponentially over their old ones (NT/9x). Granted there are the security holes, but hey, us Linux users can't claim to have a perfect system when SSH has holes in it.
Now it comes to the defining line between MS and Linux. $$. MS has every right to charge for their product. The US is a "free market" (capitolist) society. And frankly Linux companies in the same light can charge what they want for Linux distros as well (granted they are governed by the GPL, so there are other restrictions). But still when it comes down to it, the reason why I use Linux is twofold 1) Price and 2) Development tools (at the same price).
Who knows, their switches, routers, wireless appliances might really be what the home network market needs (I know.... Airport). Just wait and look at the product before casting stones.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why does every new business move Microsoft makes be "testing the waters" for their galactic-take-over-the-world-armageddon device...
Why can't some (see _most_) of Slashdot readers allow Microsoft to be the capatilistic company that it is and sell products? If their products suck, don't buy them (as long as you have a CHOICE -- this is key and the crux of the big legal debate). If they are good... MS deserves to earn from them (see capatilism).
My SIG is a SG-552 Commando
Does Microsoft properly document their hardware, or is the documentation, "How to install the Windows drivers."
I'd never in a month of Sundays expect them to furnish Linux drivers, though maybe *BSD drivers in two weeks of Sundays. But does Microsoft properly document their hardware so the community can write its own drivers? I know people use MS keyboards and mice with Linux, but those had well entrenched standards. What about getting the extra bells and whistles working?
How about shipping the documentation with a "You may not use this documentation to develop GPL-licensed drivers!" clause?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
And if you want to 'share' a broadband uplink I'm almost sure they will figure out a way to embed licence control and DRM. Which is really the point anyway, isn't it?
Microsoft has always been slow at moving into the hardware market... could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future?
If Microsoft has been slow at entering into a market, it is because they wait for technology to be established, and then they improve on that technology. I don't think that they will be making switches and routers, because they can't really create an improved version of those products that consumers will notice.
On the other hand, wireless technology is starting to become noticed by consumers and Microsoft wants people to associate their name with quality. Of course, it's 90% marketing and 10% actual quality. Look at the Microsoft Natural Keyboard, or the line of Microsoft mice. Sure, they didn't make them right away; they waited for their competitors to make the mistakes that they could then improve upon.
Actually, this strategy could be used to describe pretty much all of their products. They're not the first to do something. Microsoft is very good at reinventing ideas and selling them to consumers.
Just my opinion.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
I've seen the hardware first-hand and it's actually rather pretty. Really standard stuff with better usability than Linksys. I'm kind of in the whole wireless business and I was not disappointed by their stuff.
I'm sure there's going to be an XP specific setup utility, but it's not going to be necessary.
Do they have a back door into the router?
c am pbell_270400_microsoft.htm
How could one verify , if there is a back door or not?
http://encryption_policies.tripod.com/industry/
sinan
michael wrote:
"...could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future?"
Uhh. Could they be seeing that (a) wireless is the Next Big Thing and (b) this is the perfect time to introduce DRM where others are hesitant to do so?
This is a no-brainer given their history.
My
Limekiller
MSFT has figured out that the end game includes appliances in a big way. If they ever got their shit together, we'd all be doomed. If you control the net box - aka "Residential Gateway" - you not only gain a product line but access to the consumer's appliances. Palladium? yes, but much more than just the desktop, which is a saturated market. The TV (Xbox), the "eHome" crap, the branded strategy from server to home.
MSFT has failed large before in the appliance space - notably nuking WebTV. And they didn't learn squat from the experience. I hope they fail again.
This is to be expected. Hardware support is a weakness of Linux, so MS are moving into the hardware maket in an attempt to make cards that not only have no official Linux support, they will be so locked up with patents that it'll be impossible to provide a Linux driver.
canned response #1: lame remark about ms (sorry, i mean M$) not making their own hardware canned response #2: lame remark about security, particularly talking about the security concerns about mice and keyboards - har dee har har canned response #3: beware!!! DANGER!!! EULA!!! big brother!!!! do you guys ever get sick of posting the same crap over and over and over again? this place if a friggen joke!
> The company concluded that one problem came >from networking products that are too difficult >to use
What's so difficult about networking products? Plug in the card, depmod, then insmod (or run your OS/distro of choice's little auto configurator) then ifconfig. A good card by a good vendor "just works."
Hell, I purchased a Xircom Access Point the other day - plugged it into my hub and it worked. Period. Absolutely no work involved (I know, I know - you have to do some configuration to activate WEP + Cisco's little proprietary WEP extensions, and the random DHCP requests it sends out when it's not configured are minorly irritating; but really - how many of MS's target market are going to get those configs correctly even with a wizard to help?)
you don't like it, don't fucking buy it. really. vote with your damn dollar. buy some other company that probably pays the same chinese wage slaves to make it as they do and has less coherent manuals.
bitchdot: always finding something stupid to grouse about while millions starve.
Xbox Live launches in November. And, if hooking up a home network (and your xbox to that network) is a mystery, then noone's gonna sign up. I'm sure that they're gonna wizard-ify the home network process to make it easy for the average *broadband* user to get a home network hooked up. Bring it on, I say. Linksys and D-Link suck donkey ass.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
MS have gone on record as saying they want to secure home wireless networks, their solution for this is going to be PEAP, yet another variation on EAP (Extensible Authentication Protocol).
This is a PIA, already we have the certificate based EAP-TLS (supported in XP & CE4.0), EAP-MD5, the Cisco LEAP (supported everywhere but only with a Cisco client card), 802.1x - now a standard but not supported in it's vanilla format anywhere much yet, etc.
Guess what the cross platform support will be for PEAP ?
I'm just glad Linksys and Dlink exist, because it's going to be difficult for MS to displace them in the market, and dominate with a non-standard product.
These may also have a variation on uPnP, but I don't see how that will fit in with the security focus.
Palladuim is miles off, look for that in the updated Christmas '03 product range.
IIRC, Palladium works on the workstation (probably servers too, but lets just talk of the client side for now). Now, this thing could be implemented totally independently of palladium.But then, it'll do wonders for M$ if its used _with_ palladium.Its just plain DRM at the NIC/Router level.
I agree, that the end is the same(DRM), and the approach is _very_ similar(at the hardware level), but this looks somewhat different than palladium to me. I'm no palladium expert, infact, i'm not an expert in anything, but I see a slight difference between this and palladium. And this looks much more horrible than palladium itself. We had talks of "I am safe from palladium! I use *nix/OSX/whatever" and "we'll stick to old computers" on various fora, including
Maybe I'm paranoid. But What if i'm not? *shudder*
--gera.
-- All true wisdom is found on T-shirts.
I dont get it?
Is there something else that comes packed in powedered chalk i am supposed to know about?
Sine they use Cisco wlan equipment themselves on their corporate campus, in fact they have one of the largest wlan delpoyments ever. Maybe this is targeted at the home market? I would guess so based on the market analysis provided, they give Linksys a lead in the wlan space so it has to be the home market as Cisco is the leader in the corporate space.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I found this link that says that Microsoft may be sexually transmitted. Maybe that's why it is so rampant?
MS May Be Sexually Transmitted - Doctor
While I revile in so many ways everything that they stand for... I can't say that I've ever had a problem with their hardware.
I love my MS Ergo Keyboard (even mapping the MS key's work for me in Linux). I've never found a better KB by anyone. (or for nearly as cheap).
Their joysticks are good too. Sometimes even sexy.
Granted these are simple things, and I'm sure that I'm going to Hell for giving money to MS, but it does us no credit to pick on them with no reason.
Let them fail miserably at this task, then we can hate them for it. until then I have no shortage of complaints for MS bashing.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Maybe for PC peripherals, but one of the noteworthy features of their XBOX hardware venture is just how infrequently and insignificantly the name "Microsoft" appears on the box and in the ads. Compare, for instance, the number of occurrences of the word "Sony" on a PS2. It seems clear that it's "XBOX" that they're trying to brand.
2*3*3*3*3*11*251
""There was a story last year that mentioned Microsoft was working on Win-WiFi - 802.11b hardware that exported some of the processing to the CPU in much the same manner as a winmodem, and thus was cheaper to produce.""
To make use of a modern CPU on a desktop is really hard unless you compile or game. An even slower windows would be hard to do without deliberatly toss in loops into it. Intel and Microsoft lives on the upgradecycle and without it they would both be much smaller since you wouldnt buy a new computer every year, just new software like games etc. Right now i cant think of a single application that i use that can take advantage of my current 650 Mhz even. When i compile something bigger i do it over night.
The only application that demands something faster than todays 2 Ghz is poorly written games. My solution would be to write them better but some people tends to think throwing more hardware on fautly code is an excellent solution.
Microsoft needs to use all the cpu cycles it can and still perform good in benchmarks. This way of loading the processor with other tasks better done in hardware than in software fits their and Intel perfectly. Intel needs somthing that demands faster CPUs and Microsoft need new hardware that ships with their OS.
HTTP/1.1 400
the entire unit is pre chalked; it's a joke about the security people would expect from the proposed unit. I'd fully expect the unit to run an embedded windows OS which would provide authentication services like peap.
I remember (circa 1994) a comment that Microsoft only gets into the hardware business as an attempt to leverage more software onto people. Maybe this move represents a stepping stone towards rolling out home networking to a wider audience. It would certainly set a foundation for all-singing, all-dancing TV/media centers (XBOX2) et al.
I'm sure the MS 802.11b hardware is a reasonable choice on the competitive 802.11b landscape, and don't have any quibble with that.
However, behind the scenes lies a serious abuse of Microsoft's market power, which hasn't gotten much attention. Simply put, Microsoft refuses to qualify any 802.11a devices for use with Windows XP. You can't get WHQL certification for such a device unless it also supports 802.11b.
Maybe that's a good thing for compatibility or some other reason, but it is clearly an abuse of their monopoly for MS to unilaterally decide what devices may be sold in the PC market. Especially when they decide to participate directly in the market by selling competing devices.
Great, now the embedded web server in my MS Access Point(TM) will be able to spread Nimda and Code Red to everyone within my WAP's range.
This should be fun.
-ted
Lets PRAY to god that Microsoft never makes a switch or router.
If you think Microsoft has screwed up the PC market.. Just wait and see what they could do to the internet.
Day one, MS releases a router/switch. Day two, I move to a secluded island with no power or running water.
1. Don't try to upgrade a machine running in a remote area, ie. without a telephone or net access
2. Try moving your windows code over to another platform
3. 64 bit? What's a bit? Oh yeah... microserf: well, we can sorta kinda do 64 bit!
4. Try running windows on some really huge hardware, ie. something not x86 or emulating it
5. inverse of 4, ie. a pda or some such thing, without having to purchase an expensive xp embedded license or some such nonsense
6. try stripping windows xp down to nothing but what you need to setup a masquerading router, running on a 486
7. try administering 20 machines remotely, over a 56k modem
8. try all of the above while spending less than $50
9. Microsoft didn't disclose all of the windows api's? awww... too bad...
10. windows is quickly becoming an anti-consumer operating system, instead of enabling users, it's going to intentionally limit users, doesn't sound too appealing to me...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
has archived a bazillion versions of NS/Moz.
WTF u lusing IE for anyway?
I would heartily endorse Echelon if only they would spell and grammar check every message they handled!
I guess Intel was right when they told me their new 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV would make the internet faster!
I have one word to say to people who think win* hardware is a good idea -- " ASSHATS "!
and you will usually see the light, ie why Microsoft does project X or Y. In this case, IGnatius T Foobar has the same thoghts as I. Smaller, cheaper, faster, and more secure systems are turning up all over the place and they are not running Windows. By getting into the communications stream they are attempting to isolate those devices and isolated devices will give way to connected devices.
Why do you think Microsoft is dragging their feet with Bluetooth? It's not all about it being not ready, that's never stopped them before. It's because Bluetooth works best with low power devices and Windows does not "do" low power devices. When was the last time you saw a Windows device running off 2 AAA batteries?
The original Halloween document stated that they needed to control the protocols and this is not too far from it. It's what transmits/receives the protocols....
This is dangerous folks, IMHO. Win-Fi costs can be quite low to the user because Microsoft is going to absorb the development costs using monopoly money. If every machine ships with Win-Fi onboard, with MS security protocols, our full fledged WiFi cards will be left out unless we pay the extra $$ for another access point too.
It's dangerous if it works. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Microsoft, when it comes to hardware, is almost like a whole different company. They seem quite content to not be the only mouse manufacturer or the only joystick manufacturer, or the only keyboard manufacturer, etc. Usually when microsoft enters a hardware field it is because there are certain features that it wants to standardize, such as wheels on mice or the two windows keys on keyboards or such. What I am hoping that they are doing with this is encouraging wireless LANs that are out-of-the-box secure to become the standard.
I actually think this entry of MS into hardware lately (yes, they have been making peripherals for a while--I'm talking core stuff) is interesting, because if what many fear comes to pass, we'll be buying MS systems, not X system with Windows.
This is kind of ironic, because one of the problems I've always had with Apple (the biggest problem?) is the lack of choice with regard to hardware. If a MS hardware world comes to pass, Apple might lose that relative cost.
Could MS somehow inadvertently increase Apple or Linux sales by taking away its hardware neutrality? The hardware/OEM neutrality, so to speak, is the only argument I've ever respected from MS monopoly supporters.
A mouse is a mouse. Who gives a shit? Networking is access to the internet. If you you control access to the internet, you get a substantial benefit over your competetion. The winmodem is a better comparison. They don't work (well, at least) with non-MS operating systems (they don't really work well with MS operating systems, but that's beside the point). Who's gonna switch OSes when their hardware won't be supported, particularly their connection to the internet?
Anyone with a clue about security woudn't dare purchase networking hardware made by MS.
Of course, I feel the same about their operating systems. Doh, I just described most MS admins. Truth sucks, doesn't it?
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
That they don't manufacture keyboard and mouses is a given, almost nobody manufactures retail goods. Therefore, I'll assume you were trying to say in your second point that MS isn't the designer of the keyboard and mouse they sell.
/. don't believe much about MS, your loss) so let's do a such on google with "intellimouse hardware design". One of the first links to pop up is
t io ns_2001/hardware.asp
/., maybe you believe they're make believe individuals MS created to steal the credit from some small startup company that came up with the idea for that mouse. Then again, you might want to schedule an appointment with your psychatrist.
If that was, hopefully, your point then I do hope that ignorance is bliss to you. Most of the hardware is designed in house by a bunch of people whose job it is to "design hardware"...
wow...
you learn something new every day, don't you?
Now you might not believe me (a lot of people on
http://www.cesweb.org/awards/innovations/innova
scroll down to the intellimouse description. You even have the name of the people who designed the mouse... wow...
I'll let you track down whether they still work or ever worked for MS. After all, this is
P.S.: doesn't take much effort to use google before stating falsehoods.
Microsoft has, or has announced, multiple devices for the home that can do more if appropriate networking is available. XBox and the announced tablet device are two such devices. In many (most?) households, wireless is going to be the technology of choice for connecting the household PC and these other devices. Some of the services that MS will want to run between the devices will require certain capabilities. For example, streamed video from the PC to the XBox will require quality of service and DRM guarantees. By introducing their own line of hardware, MS assures themselves that wireless networking implementing all of those portions of the standards will be available.
Just one paranoid line of reasoning...
Are they going to make a "Force-Feedback" router? Like when you go to a WAREZ site to download some MS Software, the router vibrates
and brings down the house. That would be entertaining, except for a lot of people would be homeless!
Wish I still had my Sidewinder-Pro FFB!
This wireless router news is about 4 days old... The new uproar is over the license agreement on the DotDotNet community site.
/. is so slow when it comes to Windows news, they don't even know where to find the good negative stuff.
Hehe,
Oh great, MS will push their CPU-based Win-WiFi devices, get the bundled with all the makers overwhich they exert control or pressure, and Linux will have all the grief we've had with WinModems, all over again in the networking world. This is a powerful anti-competitive move by MS, if they truly are winmodem-ish.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Isn't MicroSoft developing it's flavor of 802.11 called 802.11x
It was suppose to ship with XP but they had other things to work on in XP.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Here is the official MS site describing it:e twork ing/
/. comments are just outrageously bizzar...
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/broadbandn
I (and many others) beta-tested this thing and I'm glad to report that it is a well made and tested product. Sometimes I just wonder why there are so many weird preconceptions about a Microsoft product. Some of the
I've seen the hardware. The home wireless network kit is a PC card, a USB adapter, an a router with 4-port switch (kind of like the Linksys BEFW11S4). The router is VERY small, but it's all really just standard stuff. The industrial design is very good and the software for it is pretty. It's not proprietary in any way, and actually looked really nice.
How long before we have a Slashdot story about how it's Microsoft's fault when someone steals credit card numbers from a business sending them unencrypted over a wide-open network.
At least now we only have to read mainstream news stories about how it's the fault of the guy with the chalk.
I was scanning down the list of stories and actually read "Microsoft to make wireless networking hard" and I didn't notice I'd read it wrong until the second pass.
The way I saw it the first time "seemed" right.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
I guess most of you aren't remembering those Lucent closed-architecture WinModems, that -- just like upcoming M$ plans, shipped the jobs off to the CPU. Even under windows, it couldn't hold a link, and they went bad quickly (expected lifetime 2 yrs). Sure, the WinMouse is no problem, and I'm willing to bet that the WinKeyboard may have worked as a regular keyboard, and done allright. But you've gotta compare apples to apples, not marbles. For that, you've gotta remember the WinModem. I, for one, was impressed enough to remember "never touch Lucent". And when the VP of Sales at Lucent became the President of HP [and incidently the old guard fled for their lives] I immediately said "caution buying HP products.] I, for one, will stay away from CPU eating brain-dead closed-source patentfee architecture. It just isn't smart. Come to think of it, going with M$ isn't smart. Their cut-rate word processor cost us over $7000 ($30k if you count lost contracts) because they can't -- or refuse to -- fix the document corruption problems that Word generates for 30-page, 800k documents.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/ms_broadband_n etworking.asp
Now, with a little help from our friends at Microsoft, 802.11b will be trully insecure.
Can we see as an attempt from Microsoft to "open" their products?
If they don't do OpenSource, will Microsoft achieve "Openness" through MS-Really Insecure Wireless?
It's your, and not you're. Learn that they're different.
your - belonging to you
you're - you are. (just as in learn that they're different)
Cats: All your Base Are Belong To Us
I'm sure M$ are planning to make subtle changes to Maxwell's equations so that their wireless EMR will not work with the rest of the worlds EMR... On the other hand, maybe that could open up more of the spectrum ;)
Microsoft only enters the hardware market when there is a large space open that they feel is holding their software business back - keyboards lacking appropriate function keys, force feedback joysticks for games etc. Usually these features then creep into mainstream hardware after Microsoft proves their utility.
Wi-Fi's security is so bad that it makes Microsoft look like a rock. You have to be pretty damn good to secure a home Wi-Fi network because its so insecure by nature.
Microsoft will undoubtably produce a version of wireless networking devices that _are_ secure and plug-and-play. This will hopefully push other manufacturers to roll out improved products at reasonable costs that don't open up Joe Consumer's p0rn collection to the entire neighborhood.
Hey Guys, I, sadly, work on the support team for this hardware. It's actually a pretty good home router. Admitidly, the network cards and adapters aren't the most non-MS-friendly hardware, but the routers, both of them, are pretty good. The WiFi router is standard 802.11b, uses standard WEP, allows MAC filtering, and will work (or so we're told) with all other standad gear, regardless of who makes it.
;) and some of the worst NAT you'll ever see. They *are*, however, doing a beta trial right now, with a new modem, which, while still on the same netmask, allows you to drop a DMZ to the one available inside ip. So if you had the new modem (probably won't be rolled out by MSN until feburary) and this/any other networking package, you'd be able to get by pretty well. That is, of course, you can deal with their nazi-esque line provisioning, with a max downstream of 640kbps. Dah well, can't win'em all. But I'll say one more time that it's actually nice hardware.
MS actually wants to pair some of this hardware up with it's MSN DSL subscribers. If you have MSN DSL, or know anyone that does, this isn't the best of ideas to look at right now, seeing as you get a modem stuck on a netmask of 255.255.255.252 (doesn't matter if you buy the router
David Coursey already has a writeup about this stuff, and he's not crazy about it. Neither are his readers. There's a related poll, "Would you buy networking hardware from Microsoft?" As of this writing, 85% of the responses are a resounding "no."
Microsoft has spent years making their bed of co-opted standards, and now they're finally going to lay in it. People are used to 802.11b devices that are platform-agnostic. Microsoft's networking hardware may not currently give preferential treatment to the 1's and 0's coming from Windows boxes, but with their track record can we really trust them to keep it that way forever?
Thanks, Bill, but I think I'll stick with LinkSys.
I heard Bill Gates is teaming up with Nurv's Gary Winston to complete Synapse. Resistance is futile.
Don't dis it til you've tried it - I use a microsoft keyboard and microsoft mouse, and can't see myself changing any time soon. I really like their joysticks and gamepads too. The stuff just 'feels right'. There is also almost no incentive for them to leverage WiFi devices to sell operating systems on the WiFi hardware itself. So stop making jokes about windows running on the hardware.
Microsoft has both the ability and the will to force competitors out of any market they enter. And they have a history of breaking standards -- even their own! This has as much to do with wanting to "improve" everything they touch ("sure it's not compliant or backward compatible, but it sure is cool!") as with a desire to lock out competitors, but the effect is the same. So when MS enters a product market, existing vendors get nervous, as do their customers. And with good reason.