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How To Get Hired As An Open Source Developer
An anonymous reader writes "Todd Cranston-Cuebas, tech recruiter for Ticketmaster, offers
insider tips and tricks for landing an open-source job -- or for recruiting new talent to your IT staff." Make yourself googleable.
Just put it "willing to work for free" in your resume!
I didn't know we could do that!
(and now for the obligatory /. business plan)
1. Send Resume
2. Wait Patiently
3. Get job
4. Profit???
Most of the companies around here create their applications to sell them.. even the bigger companies that need the application for themselves..
I've left to find myself. If you happen to see me, please, keep me there until I return.
Work at google
I thought the point of a company hiring you is so that they may make money off of you (i.e. What can you do for the company?).
I understand there are some companies that can somehow make money off of you creating open source software for them, but does it really make sense to look for a job in which you create open-source software? I mean, isn't working about bringing in money at the end...?
+5 Funny
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
My experience is this:
Sex - Find It
Have skills applicable to the job and a few others that might come in handy.
Be flexabile on salary, understand that pay has come down in a lot of markets.
Interview well when it gets to that point.
Get lucky.
How is any of this different than getting any job?
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
I know, I know, I have been extremely lucky :). Exactly one year ago, I was asked to join the internet team of a public broadcaster in the Netherlands. Their sites are based on the Open Source CMS mmbase. Of course, my work doesn't consist of 100% open-source programming, a lot of projects are more based around implementing the CMS for sites then on extending it. Nevertheless, I have been able to write significant bugfixes / applications that have been or will be released under an Open Source license.
:)
Please don't hurt me now
--
If code was hard to write, it should be hard to read
See TUX, he will help you. (For anyone who used to watch Kung Fu: The Legend Continues this might be amusing)
~~{~~@ LDP @~~}~~
This is almost psychic though. I was just talking to my flatmate (we both work for former ministry of defence research) whether it'd be possible to get a project code for my open source project and try and get a grant from the LinuxFund, the idea being that I could "bill" the Fund for my time working on the project. Often the fund gives out money and the projects don't really know what to do with it, I think the best use I can think of is to let me work on it fulltime.
Of course, as Dan rightly pointed out, there are all sorts of ugly issues with that plan, noteably the overhead my company would charge, and the fact that they have a tendancy to eat IP for breakfast. Even though the project doesn't do anything that hasn't been done before, they might try to "own" the code, which wouldn't do any good at all.
Still, I think I might talk to my boss about it tomorrow. I get paid jack all basically so I'd be able to make $1000 go a long way.....
From the article:
We create an index of all incoming resumes and search on keywords. That's why it's important for job-seekers to repeat the major skills multiple times in their resume.
WTF is this? It's bad enough having to compete for a job with people who flat-out lie. Now am I going to lose out just because some dickhead spammed more buzzwords around his resume?
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Before the
Cheney-Rumsfeld-Kissinger regime imposes martial law in the United States of America.
For more information: see
Get Your War On
Cheers,
Woot
I find it almost funny to hear Ticketmaster being associated with free software since they provide a service that adds almost no value and charges a boatload. Good thing they are saving so much money on software systems.
What's the difference between sorting out 3,000 resumes and 3,000 irrelevant google links? Secondly, if someone is not actively seeking employment, then they are probably employed. Why not give the job to one of the thousands of highly qualified unemployed Open Source professionals? Seriously, it's like a geek can't get a break in this business ;)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Gee, thanks! I just submitted my resume for a job at one of the ticketmaster subsidiaries...
My resume is now lost in a huge, even bigger then usual pile of resumes.
404 - Career Not Found!
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Here's a free insider tip, here's another.. do something to get noticed. A CV with something concrete in it looks much better than one without.
This guy isn't real, is he?
Does he have any tips on running the sort of monopoly that a company like Microsoft could actually take notes from?
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
If you're telling o-s programmers how to get jobs and their prospective employers how to find them (and they both end up reading the article) just skip all the advice and give them a street address of a mall they can get together at. :)
Ansi's and stupid tricks!
Thats why it's open source, not "free source". Do you really think working for free would feed the programmers and their families? One of the biggest benefits of open source is diverse collaboration to create good, stable software.
As far as I know, I never have, and never will equate "Open Source" to "Free". The fact that you get it for free, is just a benefit IMO.
I guess it's probably just a reflex action against spam-like resume submission (he cites 3000 applicants for a PC support tech), but I have to cringe that resumes get pre-processed by machine.
Soon applicants will achieve homogeneity in resumes, devoid of any real persona...
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Amazingly, I've always felt that their website just wasn't that great. It's an ok website, but there are a lot better ones out there. Their in- house applications for ticketsales, scripting and phone use are top of the line.
Ironically though, Ticketmaster owns one of the companies that I feel has the best websites available on the net...citysearch.com
Craenor
I think you don't need to beg for a job. Look at all the GNOME developers for example. Once they worked for free now they all got hired by Redhat or Ximian because companies are getting interested in the project and want to direct it's target. This can easily be done by hiring all the developers.
so if you are an opensource programmer then don't worry. As soon as one of these retarded money sucking companies are getting interested in your product, they hire you!
I did all of these things, and now I am a sucessful bookstore employee. Thanks Cranston-Cuebas!
Do you think that maybe one of the reasons he got the 3000 was more due to the market flood?
Imagine the deluge of resumes this recruiter is going to see .. solicited or not.
..
..
.. during and after. The tools change and improve but the basic requirements don't change.
.. no more so than going from Solaris to Red Hat Linux to Debian Linux .. the particulars are different but the skills required to understand what needs to be done do not vary very much.
My take on working full time in an open source role is
Keep your skills current and relevent for the job market and interview as best you are able
The fact that there might be a chance for open source evangelism or code contributions is secondary unless you are either independently wealthy or found some group that is.
In this case, it's like my career. I was a Unix admin before the boom
That is why you find people brought up on Dos or Linux having no particular problem getting around Windows
Which looks better on a resume
Unix Administrator - 5 Years - Linux (several) Solaris, HPUX, AIX and others
or
Red Hat Linux Administrator - 5 years
we've had little trouble finding work, even before we were listed as one of the "Top 10 Businesses of 2002"(tm) , on fuddle's search thingy.
even more good gnus to come....
(:>L0L
He solved it! The second to last option was "Get job" all along. Whoda thunk it?!?!?!!!!1
They'll do all the work for you, and (usually) get paid by the hiring company for finding you.
This article is good advise if you want to work as a support tech at ticketmaster, but in my experience, a good headhunter is the only way to go.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
be a real man and write some proprietary software.
Resume Resume Resume Resume Resume
Java C Windows Windows Motivated C++ C SQL Teamwork C++ Perl C GDI C++ Perl Teamwork Windows Perl SQL SQL Motivated Windows GDI C++ Windows Self-Starter Perl C++ C C++ C++ GDI Motivated Self-Starter Python C++ Java Java C++ Python C++
Motivated Teamwork Python Motivated C++ Perl Motivated Perl C Java Self-Starter Windows GDI Self-Starter Java GDI Motivated C++ Windows Windows Windows Teamwork Self-Starter GDI Self-Starter C C Windows SQL Windows Python Python GDI Motivated GDI Perl Teamwork SQL Perl Self-Starter Java Python GDI Teamwork Teamwork Motivated Java SQL Windows Perl Teamwork SQL C++
Self-Starter C++ GDI Java Python Windows Perl C++ GDI Windows Teamwork C GDI Python Perl C++ Perl C C++ Self-Starter Teamwork Motivated Python Java Teamwork Java Motivated Motivated Teamwork Motivated Python Self-Starter Java Python C++ SQL Python Teamwork Python Self-Starter Java Teamwork Teamwork C++ C++ Self-Starter Motivated GDI Motivated Windows Motivated GDI C++ GDI Windows Python Perl C Python Teamwork Python Self-Starter Windows Motivated SQL C++ GDI GDI SQL SQL C Self-Starter C++ Java GDI SQL GDI Self-Starter C Teamwork Motivated Motivated SQL SQL Self-Starter
Self-Starter Motivated C Teamwork Motivated Teamwork SQL Windows Java Windows C Windows SQL C++ Teamwork Python GDI Java C++ Python GDI
This has not been my experience. I've worked in a tech field for 4 employers in two states since 1994. I have no advanced degree (I was 12 units away from a BS in Geosciences when I recruited away from school to California, FWIW) yet I've worked continuously for the last 8 1/2 years. I was only hired once based solely on my resume. All other times, I had some working relationship and/or professional reputation with those who hired me (ie, they knew -- or knew someone who could vouch for -- what I could do). The one time I was hired based on my resume was by a person without a technical degree.
It comes down to knowing people or being in the right place at the right time, in my experience. You have to know people and they have to know what you can do. Your working life should be thought of as one long probationary period from which future employers can draw by taking a peer's word that you are a good employee. You should also be able to find out a lot about an employer through similar methods. Either that, or you have to look really good on paper and somehow stand out from the crowd.
The best employment experiences I've had were ones where I knew them and they knew me (at least second-hand).
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Most techies know that recruiters are parasites. Negative recruiter experiences far outweigh the positive ones. To top it off, this guy is from Ticketmaster, the concert-venue monopolist that Pearl Jam fought years ago.
The one good thing about the tech recession is it got rid of legions of recruiters. Unfortunate to have to drown the dog to kill the fleas though.
You'd like to be an open source developer for the geek cred, but...
You don't really know anything about developing
Want the same great money you're making as an M$ sysadmin
Are unable to do more than "point and click interfaces", calls to MS and business lunches
Think slow, strolls through HR, Marketing and the other "nice looking" departments is cooler than developing cutting edge solutions
Is this job not for me ??
as far as googling, we're "hot" there also.
all ya knead is a dialup & a dream? mod me up robbIE, there's gold in them there custom fitted tuxedos.
As a contractor, it is easier to avoid getting locked into internal (and infernal) NDAs development agreements, the bane of my current position.
The concept of open source and development is finally gaining ground and it's a lot easier these days to sell your development services, based on open sourced and free licensed software, to other interested parties.
Individual jobs come and go, but GPL and LGPL licensed source is forever.
We see this issue from a slightly different angle -- open source coders for LimeWire offer us an extended "interview" period where we can truly judge the value of their code. This lets us make hiring decisions easily. There's no interview that can substitute for months of open source code. Interestingly, we've seen that one of the primary attributes of people who write good code is also one of the primary attributes that involves them in open source to begin with -- passion for the project. The best coders often don't have the most impressive degrees. Rather, the best coders are the ones who care enough about the project to write good code for it. Experience and training help, but it's passion for the project that makes average code good, or good code great.
Adam Fisk
all your base belong to a beowulf cluster of natalie portman's with hotgrits down their pants
3) PROFIT!!!
... hi bingo
Sometime during the last few days at my last job I happened to ask my employer why he hired me. The reason was rather caught me by suprise.
Because I hated Microsoft. Im not kidding. He figured that if I was smart enough to dislike Microsoft that I probably knew what I was talking about.
It's somewhat disheartening when I read an article like this. If you are one of only 20 people that can do a particular job, do you really need this advice? If you are not, according to Todd Cranston-Cuebas, don't bother applying - you're not at the top of your field. I guess the -98%- rest of us hard working experienced programmers, project managers and architects can just suck eggs.
All the cool jobs just got /.ed
SecondPageMedia - Wha
Another reason is that some recruiters use applicant tracking programs that do automatic skills assessment based on keywords found in the resume, and will rank resumes based on that assessment.
Having seen my fair share of resumes padded with every acronym under the sun, I have to say this is a pretty crappy way to do recruiting.
There's a reason why people get hired based on "who they know"... it can be an effective filter.
Looking for a job? Get to know people!
a word of warning, for anyone who thought this ass-clown might have something funny to say: he doesn't he's just another angry loner with not one original thought in his tiny brain. just a sheep, your bus is leaving, you fuckstick.
why run from Vincenzo?
Payment:
I'll buy beer for you and won't tell your parents.
You get to look at my personal collection of nudie magazines.
You can code at my office, and tell your parents that you're at a sleepover. I'm an adult. They'll believe me.
I can pick you up from school, posing as your parents.
I have a PS2 and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City!
You can have all of the soda and candy you want.
Please send resume and/or high score list.
The actual best advice I can give from actual project exp is that most of the old farts know never and I repeat ever depend on a recruiter to get your foot into the door and the job!
My best techniques are to get a hold of the CEO and CTO of the company and blow my own horn about my qualifications..
You would be surpirsed at how many CEOs and CTOs actually want to hear form the applicant without all the filtering that recruiters try to do..
Why? Imagine a non tech recruiter trying to recruit for perl programmers.now Imagine how the ad comes out:
Wanted 2 years exp in Pearl
No I am not joking you still see these ads
Unlike he says tech recruiting is done primary by non tech people with no exp in your field..its better to go right to the hiring manager..better odds..
What opens the door to CEOs and CTOs:
1- Ask specific tech and proejct related questions..put yourself in the architect seat or the CTO seat and think about what questions need to be answered to make the project a success.
2- Always be grasious and polite no matter what answer you get back.
3- Use consise questions and respect their time
Okay last point how to network around recruiters
Go to those sites where recruiters ads are easy to spot so that you can filter them out, sites such as:
guru.com
craigslist.org
javalobby.org
Remember you want to increase your chances not decrease them so avoid high recruiter trafficed sites like monster.com and dice.com
Don't Tread on OpenSource
to get the degree so you can get a good job so you can get the pretty and vapid girl so...
;-)
My friend went to school to school to get her degree to get the job to get the hunky, vapid man. Just pointing out that you're a sexist pig, no flames please
Simon
home page
"Make yourself googleable."
/.ers always have to leave room for porn jokes? :-)
Do
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
As a manager with no degree, I am in a position to comment.
I give careful consideration to all applicants, but I take a sceptical view of those people whose only claim to fame is a degree or certification. I want experience, or concrete evidence that the candidate is prepared to do the job with minimal babysitting. Another thing I want is some longevity. If I'm hiring for a full-time position, I view it as a purchase as opposed to a rental. You would be amazed to see how many people have years of experience, but never more than 12 months at any one place. What assurances do I have that such people are not simply hopping from one contract to the next, leaving behind a trail of destruction?
My hires have ranged from a high school dropout [long story omitted], to an MSCS. I'm quite proud of my people; all except one have worked out well. I don't actively seek to avoid hiring people with degrees, I'm just not convinced that the credential means much. This means I'm tough on recent grads, but who isn't? For the record, I hired a recent grad after he spent some time in my department as a temp -- another success story.
I believe that managers will repeat any behavior that works, and abandon that which does not work. After you get burned on a few bad hires, you will seek to avoid whatever led you down that path.
Yeah, make yourself googeable so when you're on slashdot, they can always go to the cache!
My wife Starflower and I have been volunteering for the Rescue Mission of Roanoke, a Christian organization that provides meals, shelter, and other needed services to the homeless in the Roanoke area. It's a great place and Starflower and I are very proud to help out there.
One evening I was having dinner with Joy, the director of the mission, and she mentioned that her computer had crashed a dozen times that day. Out of habit I said that that sort of thing doesn't happen in Linux. She got very interested and said that I was the fourth person to say that, so tell her more about this Linux thing. Well, I gave her the standard pitch, talking about the value and quality of open source in general and Linux in particular. I told her about LTSP and how the mission could make life a lot easier with a set of thin clients and one good server. I talked about how great and helpful the open source community is. I even mentioned that Larry Wall (I'm doing the database project in Perl) is an evangelical Christian. Joy was very interested in all of this.
The following week, I presented a requirements document for a new database system using Apache, PostGres and Perl. I call the system Joyis, and you're welcome to read through the document yourself.
My intention was to develop the system on a volunteer basius. The management team had a better idea: they offered me a full time job on the spot. I accepted on the spot. I'll be developing Joyis for the next couple months, then migrating the entire mission to a completely open source infrastructure: Linux, LTSP, OpenOffice.org, Evolutions, and of course, Joyis.
The pay ain't much, but we can get by on it. On the plus side, I get to spend all my time in my favorite development environments, working my own hours, and creating a system that will actually help people and make the world a better place. When I'm done, Joyis will be released open source so that other homeless organization can use it. Keep an eye on SourceForge for the first release in a month or so.
Miko O'Sullivan
No, you have it all wrong. See? It's not like that at all. I'm just changing the definition right now to make a point, but bare with me. "Free" is not "free" but rather "open". See? And "open" means "free" in the sense that "free" tends to also be "open". Get it? No? Oh, you must be a M$ advocate then, fuck off.
k thnx
All I found was a 404 page. What'd I miss? And where did you remember it from?
Seriously, Don't take anything I say seriously.
The headhunter called the prospective employer numerous times every day trying to pressure them to make a decision and lied to the employer by saying that his client was currently weighing a couple of offers, "So they'd better hurry and make up their minds". The prospective employer told my gf that they would've hired her if she hadn't used that headhunter.
That quickly turned me away from headhunters.
Seriously, Don't take anything I say seriously.
Sounds like a great job!
They seem to be hiring every month or so!
The job is so good that people want to leave to let others in on the greatness that is 'working for ticketmaster'.
That job must really suck since its open every 3-5 weeks.
It's a turnoff to see a resume that includes everything you've ever touched
...
For your top skills, you want to repeat the skills and their abbreviations in all their forms, multiple times throughout the resume.
translation: be real subtle
Basically, you want to make sure you can get a high ranking hit. I'll be using Google, AltaVista, and all major search engines.
translation: next time, you might also want to SPAM us, that will show your determination
What's the difference between sorting out 3,000 resumes and 3,000 irrelevant google links? 'Nuff said!
there's no place like ~
1999: "How To Get Hired As An Open Source Developer"
2001: "How To Get Hired As A Developer"
2002: "How To Get Hired"
Table-ized A.I.
I'm willing to work for free as in freedom, but not free as in beer.
Then again, I'd work for beer too, but you'd have to pay me twice my salary's worth in beer. I could sell it at a great profit.;-)
It's unfortunate that considering the number of unployeed tech's out there that the Govt. has allowed the H1B program to continue. Other than the fact that 2/3 H1B's that I've met have been incompetent. Yet they continue to be employed because they work cheap.
If companies are having trouble finding qualified employees perhaps they need to start investing in training and then compensate the trainees. Not say, "you were making "$11/hr doing tech support? Well now that you've transfered into applications development here's a %15 raise" then they bill the poor bastard out @ >$100/hr and expect him to take it because he doesn't have any "Real Industry Experience"..
Even with a College/Uni degree, or diploma, nobody should really expect to get out and immediately get a $75000/yr+superduperbenefits job. Really, what you should look for is a job that you would like, make you enough income to survive the first year, and looks really good on a resume.
Barring that, you can also spot the companies you'd wish to work for that do pay the big bucks, and try getting in on one of the lesser positions.
It's 100% easier to climb a ladder when you're already working in a company. It's also (ironically) very often easier to get a job when you've already got a job. You don't have to mention on your resume that you're "undervalued and underpaid", just list what you're capable of, and the fact that you are currently doing it helps prove so.
There are a lot of small/starter companies who need computer support that frankly can't afford to pay big bucks in the beginning. They do look good on a resume though, and the work generally isn't too hard. Oftimes if you are lucky, said companies can end up growing, and as they grow - so often does your paycheque.
It's hard to think of with the cost of living nowadays, but sometimes the value of a position is not in the paycheque, but in the respect, references, and experience it gains.
Oh, and a big problem with small companies is that it gets really hard to leave when you're ready to move on... they tend to grow on you.
What would you prefer, a rich company that gives money to open source projects we all can use or a rich company that gives money to Microsoft? The choice seems pretty clear to me.
They have certainly done some great things for the Perl and Apache communities, including sponsoring mod_perl work (which benefits Slashdot, among others).
Slightly related
A potential job?
Also isn't there a danger to putting personal information online like the story suggests?
There are 3 distinct major groups of developers:
1 - people who earn money developing software for sale as a product: to them, open source generally != good
2 - people who earn money developing software (embedded, hardware device drivers, etc.) to support another product that is sold: to them open source: sometimes == good and sometimes != good (gives away, architectures, secrets)
3 - people who earn money developing software for IT purposes and/or in-house use: to them, open source generally == good
Of course, there are many other groups of developers (academic, recreational, etc.) and there is intermingling, so the above is not a hard and fast rule.
I also think that this is also one of the reasons that you often see acrimonious debate here at /. - each group has a different set of objectives and priorities.
Sigs are bad for your health.
I spend a lot of time dealing with hiring for the IT staff at my company. These days, I pretty much instantly trash any resume doesn't include some sort of background with creating or maintaining an Open Source projust of reasonable size. It may be an unfair bias, but experience has shown me that OSS developers are almost always an order of magnitude more skilled and more responsible than applicants from other backgrounds.
The self-motivation, self-discipline, organizational skills, and willingness to write code that the author isnt ashamed to display to the whole world are exactly the sort of traits that employers look for (or should be, anyway).
consider becoming a self-employed contractor.
/.'ers.
Where does one find gigs? Marketing skills are not something common in
I'm not exactly sure about this company, but it is known that at least one very large ticket point-of-sale system vendor is using GNU/GPL code as part of their software products, claiming it as their own, denying that they're using it, in total violation of the GPL. Basically thinking that "hey it's free sosftware/free sourcecode, I'm going to use it as I damn well please and screw the GPL".
This isn't a troll, just a general observation about ticketmaster as a company.
My latest experience with them, trying to buy phish tickets, ended up in disaster. Not only did ticketmaster manage to sell out of their 60,000 tickets (spread over 4 days of shows for phish on dec 31,jan1,2,3) in just under 30 minutes to nobody except scalpers via their main website. The claim is that no tickets were sold to anybody anywhere except via credit card through the website, no phone orders, no walk in's. Yet the website was unavailable the entire 30 minute period, yet they still sold all their tickets? This isn't the only time this has happened, just the most recent for me.
If you get advice from ticketmaster, take it with a grain of salt. They can't even sell tickets properly and legit. They don't know how to run a high load web server, and they don't even bother to attempt to spread the load out. anybody that would treat their multimillion dollar contracts as that unimportant as to not have a properly working website is not going to give you sound advice.
My advice? If you want open source advice, don't ask people that don't even know how to run a website.
Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
...Then they sign agreements once they get you in to never hire you out from them and do not tell you. When you hear from them again get ready for the pink slip on the next check. Also, there 30% cut is comming from somewhere and it isn't from the employer anymore. You are going in at a 30% disadvantage on salary.
You should probably check to see whether or not the places they've "hopped" to in the past 12 months are still in business. I've had 3 jobs in the past 3 years and I have YET to voluntarily LEAVE a job. :)
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
public company, etcetera.... Larry Ellison does not do all the hiring.
Not having a degree WILL keep you frmo many corporate executive positions... there will be a point where you can go no further.. not because of what you know, but because of public perception... if they hire a VP with no degree, and he screws up, it's the fault of those who hired someone without even obvious credentials.
I just want to work where Kara works.
Learn to cook burgers!
From the article "...because some of the best people in the industry don't have degrees".
...Dons asbestos suit and retires...
I come from exactly that background. I got my first computer (ZX80) at 13 and built it from a kit. Got some good experience in a whole range of tech jobs when I left school at 17, contracted for a time, and ended up with an excellent tech consultant type job.
I've hired quite a lot of people over the years and I've met stupid and smart graduates and stupid and smart 'self-taught' types.
The thing I found about the non-degree people was that the good ones really burned for programming - they really loved the kick that came from breaking a 'simple' sentence down into thousands of lines of code and making it work!
Some of the best degree guys urgently needed to pay off debts and you knew you were only going to be used as a stepping stone to the next job.
The only other difference was the bad habits that the academics had already got into and the willingness of the 'self-taught' types to learn from their peers.
Hopefully, computer education is now better than when I went to school (I am now 37). At school in the UK, I was just one year in front of the first year to get computer classes. I taught myself assembler when I was 13, and learned how computers work internally. When I saw a basic exam (O level) paper at 16, I could have re-written the paper so that the questions were no longer ambiguous! It was a terrible exam paper! I freely admit that I am far from the best designer or programmer in the world, but learning most of my trade on the front lines of computing has given me a much better instinct for what might work than many people much more qualified than me.
So, I guess I have to own up and say that I think that 'self-taught' guys are better than graduates because they have the burning passion for computers, technology and programming - and they want to do something tangible with it now!
What's the main difference between recruiting for open source skills (e.g. Apache, Linux, MySQL, PHP, etc.) versus proprietary skills (e.g. Microsoft .NET, Novell, Oracle, etc)?
I don't get it I think I need a little help in the terminology here.
.NET ? does the .NET license prevent programs written in it being opensource?
Is it possible to code an OpenSource app.. but it be written in
Is hiring FOR opensource meaning hiring someone to work on an opensource project, hiring someone that HAS worked on something opensource, or someone who only works with opensource platforms such as PHP?
I Be confused says I.
and frankly I don't wanna work for google.
Sure they offer you 80k... only to be laid off when the stock dips. Oh, you don't think it's possible? look at AOL, look at yahoo.
--Zuchini
Remind me not to hire you...
In short, shy comptuer geeks, which is many of the good ones, have little chance. I'm a good programer, but I like to sit in my little corner and program. One day I found myself out of work, and boom, I looked around, and so where most of the people who knew I was a good programer. (My small group)
Mind you, the above story is nothing new. Every shy person faces it everytime we need a new job. I can deal with people, I just prefer not to, and when I have a good job I like to get the job I'm hired to do done.
you are not suggesting that you (in general) have equal advantages
than those with degress. Even you will admit that
you don't.
And there are thousands of people who won the
lottery, are you suggesting that it is easy for anyone
win? And furthermore, are suggesting that it is
winning game for most people? Obviousl not.
If you add some "Cindy Crawford" and some banners, you could get self-employed as well.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
What Mr. Wiggins doesn't tell you is that OSS developers have the self-motivation, self-discipline, willingness, and low job expectations to remove tough clogs from sewer pipes for his company. Those OSS types sure are amazing!
Right, so this story is currently in the midst of being played out by YOURS TRULY.
Thanks to everyone's FAVOURITE media monopoly, ClearChannel, which is the OWNER of TM, I and a friend were EACH screwed out of $40 because of our dietary restrictions due to our religious/ethical beliefs. Just for the record, I keep Kosher & my friend is a vegan, just like the HEADLINER of the Area2 concert, Moby. We wanted to see the Area2, obviously.
We bought tickets over the web to the Area2 concert when it rolled into Philly. Before purchase there was NO indication of what restrictions would be placed on our tickets. Of course, AFTER we had paid, and our tickets printed on our printer, did we see all the fine print on the ticket that said, "subject to venue rules" or somesuch.
Ok. Fine. We check the website for the venue, the Tweeter Center in Camden, NJ (btw, ALSO owned [or is that 0WN3D?] by ClearChannel), and it seems like we'd be allowed a backpack & a small amount of our own food. Of course, when we GET THERE, they inform us that we cannot bring our own food in. We are REFUSED ENTRY due to our religious beliefs. I and my friend cannot eat the food they have there, and it its a 6 hour+ show. Oh, I also forgot to mention the fact that they were only allowing ONE bottle of water per person. This was on quite possibly the HOTTEST day of the year in a venue that has NO shade.
So, to sum up, I (and my friend) were REFUSED ADMITTANCE based upon our religious beliefs, not to mention the fact that apparently, ClearChannel wants to KILL all of their customers through dehydration. They refuse to refund the ticket price, claiming "all sales are final." However, they did NOT divulge the terms of purchase until AFTER the purchase had been made, and then even CHANGED terms on us!
If that's not a tangible example of someone being harmed by CC's evil monopolistic behavior, I don't know what is.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Join a LUG or create your own. I know a guy who kind of "took over" a LUG I helped started and then became to busy to participate in. He got a really good gig through the LUG and paid for the LUG's new site, as a token of gratitude.
He knows his stuff and was always patient with everyone he explained stuff to. I lot of people come to LUGs thinking they can learn how to solve their own IT problem but instead they find it is easier pay a signficant amount of $ to this friendly guy they met at the local LUG.
What can I say, Open Source is a give and take institution. Give freely and often, and you are bound to be noticed.
Good luck!
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
then please, go hop jobs all you want.
"the pay ain't much, but we can get by on it. On the plus side, I get to spend all my time in my favorite development environments, working my own hours, and creating a system that will actually help people and make the world a better place."
And don't forget . . . the free marketing! I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of articles are published on this and that means more exposure, more offers.
Have a blast with the project but don't sell yourself short. You might think about turning this into your next career;)
Best of luck!
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
I've never been turned down for a job I interviewed for, and I dont have a degree, and I've never been fired. My skill sets are sparse: PHP, Postgresql Perl, MySQL, Apache, Linux etc... Here's what I did:
1. Went into detail what I did in the last 3 jobs, I mean serious detail. It means that the people that I'll work well with, will appreciate my resume instead of some PHB looking for acronyms.
2. Include links to articles I wrote, and postings I made in forums for all the above technologies. The last job I got was because they received help from some silly posting I made and forgot about years ago.
3. Include links to interactive sites that you helped build. Forget the pretty stuff, the fancy HTML, that's not what you will be hired for, instead, link to the interactive portions of the site that actually do something.
4. Always have some code samples handy with lots of comments. Include some OOP examples along with traditional procedural code.Even if they dont use OOP, at least they know that you can.
5. Make sure that you will have lots of hits in google, which will turn up all your online activity.
6. Dont bring your resume to the interview. Instead, when they ask for it, give them the URL where they can view it.
7. Refuse a job where they require your resume in Microsoft Word format. It means that they are not really an open source shop, and the PHB's probably use Outlook, Exchange, Office and IE. Tell them that you are refusing the job because of that reason. They will respect you for having the balls to do it, and in the same vein, always submit your resume in text format in the email to the recruiter (not as an attachment).
8. Be assertive in your resume, tell them exactly what you want to do. Dont be vague about what you want to do. Tell them how you can help them, and that you will make a great fit in their org. If possible, tailor your resume for each job you are applying for.
9. Don't mention that you can use a word processor, browser, or spreadsheet. That's passe, everybody's expected to do that. Don't mention that you can admin an NT/2000 box (even if you can), instead, tell them in the interview.
I guess there are more tips out there, but for last 2 jobs and 4 interviews in 6 years, those have worked well for me.
Newsfollow.com
Most companies consider their internal IT applications to be Intellectual Property which is used as a competitive advantage in the marketplace. You do not want your business competitors to get a hold of your internal apps and make money off of your development efforts. From the company's prespective, there is nothing to gain, and everything to lose.
speaking in terms of the gpl: if you extend a gpled product for internal use, you dont have to relaease the source. this is because the software is being used internally and thus not being distributed. because the applications are being used internally, your competitors wont have this advantage.
-- john
1. Go live in India
2. Fake Indian citizenship using HP printer
3. Practice accent
4. Come over as an H-1B Visa worker
5. Profit!!!
No "???" step needed.
What Mr. Wiggins doesn't tell you is that OSS developers have the self-motivation, self-discipline, willingness, and low job expectations to remove tough clogs from sewer pipes for his company
No, we use H-1B's for that. The OSS dudes are to clean off the H-1B's after clog is cleared.
"B.S. Marketing, R.B. Pamplin College of Business, 1992" ;-)
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Because I hated Microsoft. Im not kidding. He figured that if I was smart enough to dislike Microsoft that I probably knew what I was talking about.
You may very well be a very talented person, but your boss may be an idiot. It seems your boss hired you due to a shared political ideology. Do you think half the vocal MS haters around here could build a working non-trivial system?
I guess the -98%- rest of us hard working experienced programmers, project managers and architects can just suck eggs.
Well open source needs very few Pros, or rather it can support very few Pros. It is like sports, there is only a handful of professional spots available. After toying with the idea in school you should expect to need to find a "real" job and resign yourself to playing in a local softball, basketball, or soccer league.
I'm also curious about how you'd put this on a resume. Add "And I post on perlmonks.com under the name camelfucker" to the contact section? Add your XP or Karma to qualifications? If I was an HR Manager and wasn't familiar with Slashcode and the sites that run it, it would be far too easy to think it was a high score. Seems to me that unless the board you reference is very specific to your profession, you should keep it to yourself.
Interociter
-=What do I want? I'm an American. I want more.
How to get hired as an open source developer. I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is possible. Mod me down, I don't care! How on earth can someone get paid for developing free software. Yes, I know all the pro-open source people are going to attack me. Bring it on.
I guess I have to own up and say that I think that 'self-taught' guys are better than graduates because they have the burning passion for computers, technology and programming - and they want to do something tangible with it now!
The self-taught are usually not as good as those who are self-taught and formally educated. Why do so many think the two are mutually exclusive? At age 37, I'm there too, you should be able to recall a time when those entering computer science programs did so because they had passion and interest, not because the high school guidance counselor said it was a good career path. College can give you access to a lot of equipment, resources, and experience that can be used for personal project and interests.
Just put them back in... 15 times, just the keywords... in a size 4 font ... at the bottom of the page... bold ... italics ... with strikethrough or something.
No, it is not human readable, it looks like some funky border or something, but the text is there and a search will find it all very simply.
take this resume, cut, paste into your current one, set to a size 4 font, and set text color to white. :)
Doesn't Ticketmaster already have an app that sells tickets?
How many more developers, open-source or not, could they possibly need to justify having at least one full-time recruiter on staff who spends his whole day looking for repetitive resumes on personal web sites?
I never thought I'd see "OSS dudes" and "clean" in the same sentence.
1. Spot a vacancy
2. Write a resume
3. ???????
4. Get hired!
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
My experience is that good managers who are knowledgable about the workforce will hire people without degrees. People who are poor managers and in over their heads are too afraid to hire non-degreed personnel because they feel it will reflect poorly on them. It's the HR equivalent of "no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft".
I would consider someone with a degree over someone without (if they were roughly equal in all other ways) as I know the person that studied CompSci will have a reasonable exposure to algorithms, OS and hardware architecture, as well as software engineering methodology. You at least know you aren't going to get someone that would use a O(n^2) algorithm for a basic sort. Of course you can take time and give all the candidates extensive technical tests, but with a degree that's already done at someone else's expense.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
I would consider someone with a degree over someone without (if they were roughly equal in all other ways) as I know the person that studied CompSci will have a reasonable exposure to algorithms, OS and hardware architecture, as well as software engineering methodology
:-)
You know that they've had reasonable exposure to it, but that doesn't mean they actually learned it or can apply it in a practical setting. I've seen plenty of CS grads implement bubble sorts in production code, incidentally.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
From the article:
It's unfortunate that the US government requires a degree [in the field of expertise] in order for foreigners to obtain H1B work visas because some of the best people in the industry don't have degrees.
Okay, this numbnuts is bitching about all the resumes Ticketmaster has to cull through and stating that all they're really looking for is people that can actually do the work (meaning people that pass his computer's little buzzword test), then he goes and makes the quoted statement. I'm sure there are plenty of recent U.S. college grads that would probably like to be considered before Ticketmaster goes abroad looking for people, but they would probably actually expect to get paid, unlike the H1-B's Ticketmaster is wanting to hire. I'm ready for my (-1, Troll, Offtopic) now, Mr. DeMille....
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Cranston-Cuebas: In today's market, a lot of recruiting and job hunting is a networking game. Make sure that everyone you know knows that you'll consider other opportunities. Word of mouth is becoming more and more important.
Huh, so what has changed? This is exactly what they were telling us at school 20 years ago.
OSDL (http://www.osdl.org/) is hiring
right now, particularly looking for people
with perl/C/Linux development and sysadmin
experience.
OSDL's a non-profit in Beaverton, Or, focused on helping provide tools,
patches, etc. to make Linux better.
Needs exactly the sort of
people described in this article as
looking for exactly this kind of company.
No, that is greed, not human nature
Greed is part of human nature.
Just look at any baby or small child.
Many of us outgrow greed to some extent, but it is a trait that must be unlearned.
Even cooperation, to a large extent, is a form of greed, because people usually cooperate only when each party thinks that the cooperation is in its best interest, and the more that each is likely to get, the more that each is likely to cooperate.
Even some altruism (which is also a learned trait) is based on greed, because many altruistic people are that way because they want to get into "Heaven" after they die, or they want to please their "god" (and thus receive "favors") while they are alive.
To get back on topic, it's understandable why a potential employer would want someone for a long-term position who won't job-hop.
It's also understandable why a potential employee looking for long-term employment would want assurances that he/she wouldn't be laid off two months after moving halfway across the country.
(This happened to a friend of mine recently.)
The solution is to get an agreement in writing.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
major web sites that are part of the Ticketmaster family, including citysearch.com, ticketmaster.com, evite.com, and resumeamerica.com.
I think they mean reserveamerica.com. resumeamerica.com appears to be one of those crappy 'search' sites. ReserveAmerica.com does online reservations for camp sites across the country. I used it recently and had a little trouble getting through the interface but it was pretty nifty none-the-less.
See: http://www.aboutticketmaster.com/companies/
You're right. The article was supposed to say ReserveAmerica.com! Good catch. Todd