In-Depth Look At Matrix Previews

QuietKarma writes "Consider this the first of next year's ads for Matrixx Reloaded and Matrixx Revolutions releases. Here's some semi-official poop from MSNBC with some spoilers. Or you can do what I did and read about halfway through without learning how Reloaded will end. Either that or wait until Harry at Ain't It Cool News comes out with his list of spoilers."

Comments

I wonder...

[haxor.dk]

Can the makers of these new Matrices make the next movies any better than the current Matrix (which I found great).

Or will it be new soup from old cabbage?

Re:I wonder...

[billybob2001]

Dunno about soup or cabbage... ...all I know is... ...there is no spoon.

Re:I wonder...

[DohDamit]

Did you actually read Neuromancer? Dipshit, Gibson's net has very, very little to do with an artificial reality. It has more to do with...well, don't want to ruin it for you, since you didn't actually read it.

Re:I wonder...

[Abcd1234]

Actually, I've had this discussion with some friends of mine. The fact is, the first Matrix movie was, for all intents and purposes, incredibly hokey (I know it, you know it... but we loved it anyway :). The acting was... well... horrible, and the plot, while interesting, was not *that* innovative (although, I rather enjoyed it). BUT, the movie had two things: incredble action, and style. There was something interesting and unique about the feel of The Matrix. But now, with Hollywood copying many of the styalistic elements (eg. the fight scene choreography), The Matrix sequels may not provide the same bang that the original did.

So, we have a problem: the sequels will be just as hokey as the original. This is undeniable (after all, Keanu is still in them ;). So, if they simply match the original Matrix in style and form, they will be relatively unoriginal and people will accuse them of simplying "copying" the first movie. Hence, the question $65,000 becomes: how will the Wachowski brothers one-up themselves for the sequels. I have no idea, but I'm sure looking forward to finding out. :)

Re:I wonder...

[Walterk]

Who needs a spoon? All you need is two sticks. "Eating soup with sticks?" I hear you thinking, yes, eating soup with sticks.

Re:I wonder...

[Sh0t]

As long as the sticks are ultra absorbant and you can easily suck on them, I see no problem using sticks to eat soup :]

Re:I wonder...

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

As long as the sticks are ultra absorbant and you can easily suck on them

Damn, there's so many directions one could go with a comment like that...

I'll just take the kind route and ask, Do you have hands? Pick up the bowl and drink.

(it's all humor, just laugh)

Re:I wonder...

[certron]

"Who needs a spoon? All you need is two sticks. "Eating soup with sticks?" I hear you thinking, yes, eating soup with sticks."

I hope the sticks are long and hollow, almost... strawlike.

Re:I wonder...

[Walterk]

Take the hint from xsomething above. Use the sticks to grab out all the big hunks, then drink the liquid part. It's how most asians do it. And me, when I visit my Cantonese friend and his mom makes me eat soup :}

Re:I wonder...

[Cire]

Obviously, you didn't read the article, which essenciallly addresses all of the problems you just brought it.

Is it original (plot wise)? Not entirly, but no one else had put those combinations of things together before. And is any art entirely original, or is it a re-interpretation of someone else ideas.

Were the effects original and can they be out-done? Yes. No one had ever done things like that before, which is why everyone tried to rip it off. They claim to have done amazing new things which will be impossible for people without huge budgets to rip off.

Cire

Re:I wonder...

[mholt108]

Dont be silly. It was riveting and everyone I know thought so. Your opinon is just that, your opinion. The plot was great you just dont like it cause it was anti tech and Rasta. Keanu has his own style and put everything he had into that movie (yes I know this cause I had friends working on it). The whole thing was like a meditation for him.
The new ones will be better and bigger from what I have heard from those on set (but that is all they will say) and the philosophical elements are drawn out.
I am sick of slashdot readers. It is easy to gather Karma from shitting on the brilliant work of other.

Re:I wonder...

[xynopsis]

I don't like how other movies copy the matrix style, but considering the producers promises:

(From the MSNBC article)


"The Wachowskis were tickled by the copycatting, but soon they began noticing fight scenes-- like the one in Charlie's Angels that were shot exactly like theirs. So they decided to create images that no one could copy, says the producer. There's only two ways to do that: time and money."

I eagerly anticpate this movie and I hope this will have a more unique feel than the first one.

Re:I wonder...

[Grab]

Keanu has his own style and put everything he had into that movie

Yep, and that's the problem, really.

Troll, I know, but please ppl, face facts - Keanu Reeves' best work was Bill and Ted, a movie in which the main requirement was to act badly but look cool. A job which he did well, for the same reason that Hervé Villechaize was good at being short.

Grab.

Amazing!

[BigumD]

The movie is so hotly anticipated that they've added another 'x' to each title...

Either that or both feature a lot of pole dancing in Zion...

Crazy

[unterderbrucke]

Previews 6 months before the movie, geez.
Overhype maybe?

Re:Crazy

[AyeRoxor!]

"Previews 6 months before the movie, geez.
Overhype maybe?"

Maybe, though not unusual these days. LOTR2 and T3 both started promos six months or MORE (T3) before the anticipated date of 1st showing, and there are probably others. I dont go to movies that often, but those are the 2 I noticed.

p.s. I also think the extra 'x' thing needs to be explained... Did I miss something?

Re:Crazy

[Abcd1234]

No way. If you ask me, they've been pretty conservative (or, at least, standard) with The Matrix. Hell, I've seen marketing devices (posters, cardboard cutouts, etc) and previews for movies up to a year in advance of the release (Captain Corelli's Mandolin comes to mind).

Re:Crazy

[AirguyWI]

The Terminator 3 preview was out 8 months before the July 2003 release date (www.apple.com).

Catering to ADHD

[inteller]

I think what is the worst is that they are releasing two sequels the same year. Whatever happened to waiting, speculation, and hype?

Re:Catering to ADHD

[kill-hup]

I think we've had enough of all three already ;)

Seriously, "The Matrix" was released back in 1999. Four years to the sequel(s) isn't a short wait. Personally, I'm glad they're releasing them both within such a short span.

The last sequel I waited a long time for (and wasn't even sure they'd make) was Beverly Hills Cop III. Seven years, and it wasn't even that good. Let's hope the Newsweek article is right and the upcoming Matrix sequels will be worth the wait.

Re:Catering to ADHD

[FyRE666]

I think what is the worst is that they are releasing two sequels the same year. Whatever happened to waiting, speculation, and hype?

Yeah, because look how well that idea worked for the dot.com industry ;-)

Animatrix in Matrix Boxed Set

[Vegan Pagan]

I hope that in a few years when WB sells a boxed set of all the Matrix movies, they include The Animatrix along with it. Animatrix looks to be the most unique title in the series, and probably the most eclectic mix of cartoons ever made.

Re:Animatrix in Matrix Boxed Set

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

where money can be made, it will be made eventually

not only will there be a boxed set, there will be a collectors edition, a special edition, and a special collectors edition...

Re:Animatrix in Matrix Boxed Set

[kill-hup]

..don't forget "Platinum Edition"...

Re:Animatrix in Matrix Boxed Set

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I'll wait for the Super-Tiger-Dragon Edition...

Matrixx?

[Otter]

Am I missing something or did the submitter of a story about the Matrix sequels really misspell "Matrix" twice?

nah

[Joe the Lesser]

Me? I'm waiting for the official poop, none of this half-rate feces will do.

The Age of Sequels

[_Sambo]

So the Matrix will be Reloaded, then overthrown in a Revolution.

Meanwhile, LOTR will continue to the overthrow of Mordor and the restoration of Gondor.

The war between Mutants and non-Mutants will begin in X-Men 2.

Anakin must become Darth Vader in Episode 3.

Harry Potter will get another installment in there somewhere.

Mad Max will ride again.

James Bond...

And Oh, yeah, did you hear that Dumb and Dumber is getting a prequel?

I myself LOVE sequels, if they don't suck. I just hope that they put all of the Matrix Movies and all of the LOTR movies in the IMAX theater after it's all said and done so that the die-hards can see the films the way they were meant to be seen.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[RebelTycoon]

LOTR does not have sequels...

its just one long movie divided into 3 parts!

Re:The Age of Sequels

[RyLaN]

and somewhere i heard a rumor of american pie 3..
and you forgot the austin powers chain, though few of us will stoop low enough to call those movies..

Re:The Age of Sequels

[damiam]

If IMAX was how they were meant to be seen, they would have been filmed in IMAX. An IMAX conversion might be nice, but it's hard to add quality that's not there in the first place.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[Lumpy]

LOTR movies in the IMAX theater after it's all said and done so that the die-hards can see the films the way they were meant to be seen.

they never shot any of them in IMAX format. so seeing them in IMAX is not seeing them the way they were meant to be seen.

I do wish that Lotr series was shot on IMAX format.. although it would have made the movies cost 10X as much as they do now to make and we would have to have 2 intermissions during a viewing as they change reels (you dont get 3 hours of film on an IMAX reel) and probably have to pay $30.00 per ticket to see it.

I would have paid $30.00 a set to see it in true IMAX style (although I enjoyed my $5.50 matinee price at 11:30 in the morning) but there are so few IMAX theaters that it's not worth it for them to make a long epic like LoTR in that format.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[Aggrazel]

And, if you believe Back to the Future 2, we need an AWFUL lot of Jaws sequels between now and 2015.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I just hope that they put all of the Matrix Movies and all of the LOTR movies in the IMAX theater after it's all said and done so that the die-hards can see the films the way they were meant to be seen.

Uh... you know IMAX uses a different aspect ratio from other cinematic presentations, right? IMAX is a 15-perf 70mm format with a 1.33:1 aspect ratio, same as an old-fashioned TV. All the movies you mentioned were meant to be shown in 2.35:1. To reformat those movies for IMAX will mean having to remove about 40% of the picture. They had to do this with Apollo 13, and later with Attack of the Clones.

These movies were not meant to be seen in IMAX. They were meant to be seen in a regular theater with a screen 2.35 times as wide as it is tall.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[(startx)]

Your forgetting the Terminator 3 and Bad Boys 2, both due out this summer! I don't think there was a single preview before LoTR that WASN'T for a sequal (or prequil in dumb and dumbers case)!

Re:The Age of Sequels

[AyeRoxor!]

"LOTR does not have sequels...

its just one long movie divided into 3 parts!"

Thank you. It's just like the book. It is not a trilogy. It's only mistake was being printed in 3 parts for time/money/proofreading sake. For nay-sayers, go buy a copy. It actually says this in the foreword.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[Xcruciate]

I don't know about you, but even though AOTC on IMAX was basically formatted "pan and scan", I enjoyed the hell out of it. To see a great action movie on a six story screen with a 12,000 watt sound system with a great picture, that is the way to see movies. Granted, they also cut 20 min. of the movie, but never the less, I enjoyed it. It was worth the sacrifice of 2.35:1 to pan and scan and 20 min. of footage. The sound quality alone was worth it. I would definately see more regular movies formatted to IMAX.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[mraymer]

You are oversimplifying things a little. First of all, LOTR was technically one really large book divided into three sections. So, think of the movie the same way. It's really a continuation of the story, not a sequel per se. Also, Star Wars was originally a sequel, since they started at Episode 4.

What is interesting though, is the fact that after what, 10 years, they've made a Terminator 3. Maybe some producer saw a rise in the box office success of sequels and jumped at the Terminator franchise?

Re:The Age of Sequels

[LineNoiz]

First of all, LOTR was techinichally 6 books, not 3.

As for the terminator, you may notice that the first was released in 1984, the second in 1991. Releasing the third in 2003 isn't that big of a stretch considering that there was a 7 year gap between the first two. It follows in the timeline of the movie as well. I read somewhere once that he had the scripts written long ago (probably have been rewritten since then), and he wanted to release each movie in the year it was supposed to have happened.

Re:The Age of Sequels

[ColdGrits]

OK, then what IS the sequel to "Lord Of The Rings", please?

I'll give you a huge clue - there isn;t one. Tolkein wrote the first chapter of a sequel, but it never got further than that.

There is no sequel to Lord Of The Rings.

You *could* try to claim that The Two Towers is a sequel to Fellowship Of The Ring (in terms of books, not movies), but even that is flawed - FOTR was 2 books, TTT was 2 books, and ROTK was 2 books, all of which made up the one story LOTR. The whole was written as a single entity, split into parts for ease of release etc.

(It's like saying "chapter 2 is the sequel to chapter 1"...)

How is there more story?

[mattyohe]

I just don't understand how there will be more of a story out of "matrix". Neo is a god of his world.. he is the "one" how can there be anything else to extrapolate from this story. Unless maybe the movie didn't tell us everything the first time, or things were left out intentionally to make profit on these additional matrices. Movie producers wouldn't do that... would they?

Re:How is there more story?

[JohnnyBolla]

You aren't seriously confused about this, are you?

Re:How is there more story?

[Gudlyf]

God in the Matrix, yes, but not in the "real world" where he can't really fly, leap tall buildings, etc.

We need to see all those millions(?) of people being used as batteries become self aware and kick the shite out of the machines in the real world.

...but then there's that pesky problem of the "real world" being a barren wasteland, covered in clouded darkness. Makes that blue pill sound not so bad afterall. That's one thing that bothered me from the 1st movie -- that the "solution" humans had to defeat the machines was to blacken the skies and basically wipe out all natural vegetation on Earth? Nice move.

Re:How is there more story?

[jgerman]

We need to see all those millions(?) of people being used as batteries become self aware and kick the shite out of the machines in the real world.

No we don't. This is why I feel that there is no reason for a sequel. As usual Hollywood in their pursuit of money is overtelling another story. The first Matrix was great, pelnty of substance, and really overachieved as far as my expectations were concerned. The sequels will most likely be nothing more than standard action movies.

Kinda like sequel's to Highlander ... blech.

Re:How is there more story?

[UberOogie]

I just don't understand how there will be more of a story out of "matrix".

Not a problem. there wasn't any story in the original.

comicbookguy
Most over-rated movie... EVER.
/comicbookguy

Re:How is there more story?

[ihavenovoice]

Go and watch "The Thirteenth Floor" it can give you a nice feeling for what you might expect from a sequel. But i am a bit disappointed in you guys; the whole idea of the matrix was that you could not trust the world around you to be real, so how can you think there is no more after this. Who knows if the world neo has come into is even real...

Re:How is there more story?

[Theom]

I just don't understand how there will be more of a story out of "matrix".

Why are you talking about "matrix" when the story clearly says "matrixx"?

Re:How is there more story?

[EvilBudMan]

It was just a dream, remember, he took the wrong pill, so he was not god after all. Always someone bigger and bladder.

Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Lachrymite]

From the column of Mark Millar, comic book writer:

"A baby-sitter two nights in a row is close to impossible in our family so I stuck on my old copy of The Matrix as a poor sub for a night out. It was the first time Gill had ever seen it and she actually managed to ruin it for me completely by pointing out a major plot hurdle the next two films really better explain. We're all living in The Matrix, right? We're all slaves to the robotic parasites who use our bodies as batteries while they distract us with our nice, glamorous lives in what we perceive to be the real world, right? Neo is The One who's going to free us from these evil robot masters and help us all wake up and reclaim our planet, right? So far, so good, but the world we reclaim is a post-nuclear nightmare, brother! No sun, no fun, no food, no nice clothes, no new comics every Wednesday or Thursday. Imagine everything and everyone you know suddenly switching off as you open your eyes in your little special effects pod and Lawrence bloody Fishburne is standing there with a nuclear winter blowing behind him, telling us he's saved humanity.

Thanks a lot, Morpheus, you big, fucking twat."

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[binaryDigit]

Actually that does bring up an interesting point. Say they somehow manage to 'defeat' the matrix. Now the diplomatic thing to do would be to give each individual a choice (just as was done with Neo and the rest). People would be "brought out" to see the real world first hand, and then we would be allowed to choose. This of course assumes that by 'defeating' the matrix, it is not destroyed, but rather its programming is now controlled by humans.

After that, Morpheus and company can start a company called "Recall Enterprises" and offer people vacations to the most exotic places (i.e. no non hell on earth location) without leaving the comfy confines of ........

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Gudlyf]

Exactly the problem I had with the first movie. What the hell do the battery-people have to look forward to? If the Matrix was as smart as it should be, why not make the lives of all of the people in the Matrix even more glamorous than they already are? Let them all fly, leap buildings, etc. Then when Neo and the gang decide throw red pills down their throats, and they wake up nearly drowning in their own goopy food and feces, they'll beg to be strapped back in.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[AyeRoxor!]

"Now the diplomatic thing to do would be to give each individual a choice (just as was done with Neo and the rest). "

Hay, caramba! The moral questions this one raises... I, for one, think that if you find an entire race of people hooked up to a machine for the entirety of their lives, thinking that is living, and a good way to spend their existence, then that entire race of people needs a boot up its ass. Just like slavery. (I wasnt around so stop asking me to pay for it, etc.) BUT I'm sure there were the slaves that said, "Excuse me, good sir, we don't have it too badly here. Please don't 'rock the boat' as it were, because we may lose our accomodations and life would become more difficult for us, as individuals, and as a whole. Thank you for your understanding." But the right thing to do was to give those people their freedom back. A birthright is a responsibility. Freedom is a birthright. As my dad used to say, "Unplug your head from that goddamned machine and face your responsibilities."

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[idontgno]

...but the world we reclaim is a post-nuclear nightmare, brother! No sun, no fun, no food, no nice clothes, no new comics every Wednesday or Thursday. Imagine everything and everyone you know suddenly switching off as you open your eyes in your little special effects pod....

AAAH! NO SLASHDOT!
Where's that blue pill, gimmeitgimmeitgimmeit!

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[unicron]

It's morally ambiguous. Their better off hooked into that machine that scavenging for scraps at some fucked up(more-so) version of Barter Town. What's better: A false heaven or a very believable hell?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[jayhawk88]

Not only that, but there's the question of what to do with all the people currently in the Matrix. Remember that removing Neo from the Matrix at his age was a big sticking point; "Normally they do not remove a mind after a certain age" or something like that. Presumably this means that the vast majority of adults in the Matrix would not want to be "freed".

So do you leave them all in the Matrix to live out their lives? What happens if your freedom fight takes down the Matrix (the physical contructs of it I mean, all the tubes and pods and stuff); is your freedom worth the genocide of much of the human race? If you defeat the machines but are able to preserve the Matrix (and the adults inside), how do you care for them afterwards? Presumably you are not going to be adding new children to the Matrix after you win, so I would imagine at some point the Matrix reaches a point where the people inside are no longer sufficient battery power to operate the Matrix itself, because of people dying, etc.

But of course, all of this is the exact reason why The Matrix is so popular, and why these two movies are going to be the event of 2003. Questions. The Matrix captured our imaginations, and we all can't wait to see what happens next. Been a long time since a movie can truly say that.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Gudlyf]

A birthright is a responsibility

Remember that at least a good portion of those people were genetically created by the machines.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[rw2]

Exactly the problem I had with the first movie. What the hell do the battery-people have to look forward to? If the Matrix was as smart as it should be, why not make the lives of all of the people in the Matrix even more glamorous than they already are? Let them all fly, leap buildings, etc. Then when Neo and the gang decide throw red pills down their throats, and they wake up nearly drowning in their own goopy food and feces, they'll beg to be strapped back in.

Which is exactly why microsoft is the leading software company and the US political system is run by two nearly identicaly clone parties.

The point of the movie is the value of freedom people.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[AyeRoxor!]

"It's morally ambiguous. Their better off hooked into that machine that scavenging for scraps at some fucked up(more-so) version of Barter Town. What's better: A false heaven or a very believable hell?"

As a matter of principle and desire for truth, I have no trouble saying hell. At least then I am in charge of my own destiny. Hooked up to a machine, it could malfunction, they could forget to feed me, and oh yeah, choosing that existence would make me really extremely the posterboy for pathetic. But of course, opinions are like...

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[pboulang]

Errr... Haven't you seen the original? Didn't it already explain that having a Utopia didn't work? That basically, they had to recreate the boring "real world"?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[kalidasa]

Exactly the problem I had with the first movie. What the hell do the battery-people have to look forward to? If the Matrix was as smart as it should be, why not make the lives of all of the people in the Matrix even more glamorous than they already are? Let them all fly, leap buildings, etc.

Morpheus explains that the Matrix took decades to figure out that this very idea wouldn't work; that in an Edenic Matrix, the "batteries" kept wigging out because there was no conflict in their lives.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[AyeRoxor!]

"Remember that at least a good portion of those people were genetically created by the machines."

True enough. But the machines didn't create the species. They just put different parts together.
Depending on what you believe, we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, or, we're a mistake, have no rights, and it's each for himself.

I don't see how either of those lead to the machines being lord over us. Genetic designers or not, I don't see how HRS would have trouble deciding that the machines are not exactly ideal parents.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Gudlyf]

Morpheus explains that the Matrix took decades to figure out that this very idea wouldn't work; that in an Edenic Matrix, the "batteries" kept wigging out because there was no conflict in their lives.

So have half of them in the Justice League and the others in the Legion of Doom!

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[anonymous loser]

Actually the thing that struck me was the whole conservation of energy thing. A human isn't a battery, it's a GENERATOR. You have to feed and water all those humans who then convert that energy into electricity, and that food doesn't come for free either. Somewhere, somehow, the machines are getting energy from an external source (e.g. the sun, geothermal heating) to supplement the energy they already have. They are then using that energy to generate food (even if that food is other humans), which they give to the humans who generate the electricity.

What's the point? Why not make a more efficient mechanical generator to convert directly to electricity instead? By spreading the whole process out over several steps they are just wasting more energy than they really need to.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[handorf]

But of course, all of this is the exact reason why The Matrix is so popular,

I have to disagree with this. The only question I had coming out of the first movie was "Why in the HELL wouldn't they use compost? Humans are about the most inefficient bloody electical generators you could POSSIBLY imagine." Heck, even just grow a human WITHOUT a brain (then elect him... DOH!)... our brains use up something like 60% of our total body nutrients (when at rest).

I think that the popularity of the movie had 2 primary reasons:
1) Leather Catsuit
2) Guns.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[CrackHappy]

It's called suspension of disbelief.

The first time I saw this movie, I about jumped out of my seat in the theater, trying to suppress my urge to yell and scream about the plot holes.

However, even though there are some logical consequences that we see as obvious, it doesn't actually detract from the movie itself.

We just have to turn off that logical part of our brains that makes us twitch, and instead just say "there is no spoon" and enjoy the movie!

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I thought it was Agent Smith who explained this to Morpheus...?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[provolt]

I liked the movie, but the whole time they were talking about why they were in the Matrix, the one thought that kept going through my head was "So they found a way around the 2nd law of thermodynamics, huh?"

Perhaps they use the "form of fusion" to supply the power to overcome the increase in entropy.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[binaryDigit]

As a matter of principle and desire for truth, I have no trouble saying hell.

Right, but that is missing the point. The bigger issue that one is faced with is that if your life in the matrix were not that bad, then could you truely face the "real world".

And of course, the bigger overarching question is, when you are in the "real world", how do you know that you are in the "real world"? How do you know it's not the matrix being smart and saying, "hey, if these fools want to live in a post apocalyptic hell, I'll give'em one to live in, making them happy". So the ultimate irony would be that you would be giving up a relatively "nice" existence, for one that pretty much sucks, but in "reality" is no better than what you originally had?!?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[jafac]

I always secretly thought that in reality, the humans were not slaves, and not being used as batteries. It was all a big lie made up by Morpheus, or some "freedom fighter" many hundreds of years ago to justify the existance of humans outside of the Matrix.

In reality - the AI's had basically SAVED humanity from itself - either an intranicene war, or simple mismanagement of the environment, humanity had destroyed the earth and made it uninhabitable, so the machines were keeping them in the Matrix as a Zoo. If you think about it, absolutely NOTHING said by Agent Smith in the first movie conflicts with this idea. So maybe it's the case.

Perhaps the machines have been trying to tell the Freedom Fighters this truth for hundreds of years, but the Freedom Fighters do not believe them.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[jafac]

Because the machines ALREADY tried that. The humans couldn't stand it, because they thrived on suffering. Entire crops were lost - etc.

I just loved that statement, because it's so true.
Not that humans need to suffer. They need to have OTHERS suffer.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[jafac]

"Humans are about the most inefficient bloody electical generators you could POSSIBLY imagine." Heck, even just grow a human WITHOUT a brain (then elect him... DOH!)... our brains use up something like 60% of our total body nutrients (when at rest)."

Um, that's what they TAUGHT you to believe (along with the 2nd law of thermodynamics) - that's only true in the Matrix. Outside of the matrix, the 2nd law of thermodynamics does not apply. Now, why they chose Humans as their perpetual motion machine rather than some complicated treadmill of sponges going through a bucket of water, I have no idea.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Gudlyf]

The food source was liquified humans, IIRC.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[sql*kitten]

I have to disagree with this. The only question I had coming out of the first movie was "Why in the HELL wouldn't they use compost? Humans are about the most inefficient bloody electical generators you could POSSIBLY imagine." Heck, even just grow a human WITHOUT a brain (then elect him... DOH!)... our brains use up something like 60% of our total body nutrients (when at rest).

Definitely. They should have said that the machines needed exotic chemicals that could only be produced by an active brain. I don't know if there even are such chemicals, but it would have been a lot better than the ridiculous humans-as-batteries idea.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[broter]

"The food source was liquified humans, IIRC."

Yeah, but the laws of thermodynamics demand that you'll alway lose energy in the transfer... Something like 10% of the energy that goes into a criter ends up as usable tissue energy... So once again, Where are they getting the energy to create the food?

I try to tell myself that the battery plot line was just the humans' best guess - not necessarily the truth(tm). Just like Agent Smith's theory that humans are actually viruses... born out of hatred for the enemy, not an actual attatchment to the truth.

But then, knowing a few screen writers, I'm not suprised that the physics of it is screwy. I don't think many writers know the laws of thermodynamics...

-RB

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[FyRE666]

I, for one, think that if you find an entire race of people hooked up to a machine for the entirety of their lives, thinking that is living, and a good way to spend their existence, then that entire race of people needs a boot up its ass.

I think you're trying to sell this idea to the wrong crowd, dude...

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[kalidasa]

You're probably right.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[r00tarded]

much deeper problem. the matrix can be recursive. how do you know you are *out* of the matrix?

Re: Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Omniscient Ferret]

I've heard that in the original script, the Matrix exploited the computational capacity of human brains. This actually makes sense, and it also explains spoon-bending and stuff like that; the Matrix trusts the clients, which is bad security.
The directors changed the exploitation to power because someone thought the audience just wouldn't get the computational explanation.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[ellboy]

Which only begins to point out what a fucking stupid premise the whole movie is to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I loved the action sequences. It's a very pretty piece of film, but... I'm so sick of the terrible, TERRIBLE stories in movies these days. Of all the action movies that come out in a given year, maybe one of them has a decent plot not ridden with holes. So now we'll get two more movies which build on the rickety foundation of the first. Sorry, I think I'll pass. Rentals at best.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Idarubicin]

What's the point? Why not make a more efficient mechanical generator to convert directly to electricity instead?

I dunno--maybe because the movie would be too hard to sell if the geothermal power plants rose up to overthrow their robotic oppressors, on a world where the humans had been killed off centuries previous because they were too inefficient.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[pauls2272]

My brother and I got into an arguement about this. He claimed that in the movie aliens were feeding off the life force of the humans. I told him there were no aliens, those were AI not Aliens. He said that would make no sense then...Duh! The Human as battery is, of course, complete nonsense. The real crazy part is I didn't mind this. The Matrix was a movie to experience not to think about. Paul

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[jnana]

Perhaps the machines appreciated the irony of the oppressed subjugating the oppressors.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Col Bat Guano]

Ah, but think about the really interesting thing.

People inside the matrix should be able to determine that they are living inside a machine.

The pods are spaced some distance apart so there would be delays in communication b/w people.
If that happens then people who "live" far apart in the machine meet (perhaps they bump into each other
on holidays) could notice latency in their conversation.

What about researchers who do experiments on the speed of light! Surely they would notice a discrepancy.

I suppose in the matrix the whackos are right - all of NASA's moon landings would be faked.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Cyno]

Or what if the Matris merely parallels capitalist society. I found it ironic that the society in the Matrix was exactly like "real life" America. I think this has deeper meaning. The matrix is in fact not a single machine or AI with a mind of its own, but a collective organization of governments, corporations, politics, media, etc. It enslaves us, controlling what we think and feel and how we live out their lives.
We grow up, go to school, become an adult, party and drink and finish up college, work out our lives and die a slow death on drugs that ease our pain. We have the option to see France or Disney World or visit various parts of the world in our livetime if we save up enough money or are one of the fortunate ones. Most will just live a boring tedious life, mostly spent watching TV, enslaved, but completely ignorant and satisfied with reality as they know it.
The solution? Um, gotta wait for the sequels I guess.. IMHO: Technology and the abolition of money.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mgblst]

I, for one, think that if you find an entire race of people hooked up to a machine for the entirety of their lives, thinking that is living, and a good way to spend their existence, then that entire race of people needs a boot up its ass.

So where do i send the list of MMORPG players? After that, we will get around to the habitual slashdot readers...

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mgblst]

See, that would be a great ending. Have a huge struggle for the "rebels", and in the last minute of the show, the reveal that it was just another scenario, to keep the people pumping juice. aka 'blue skies on mars'...

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mgblst]

It's called suspension of disbelief.

No, it is called haven't seen all the movies yet. They have to explain this better in the next two movies, or it makes the movies crap. Suspension of disbelief does not work, i am afraid. You can't just explain away huge logical falacies away with that term.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[unicron]

Dude, quit with the "I'm never gonna do the 9 to 5!" bullshit. Everything thinks like you do in high school. Then the reality of the world cuts them at the kneecaps. It's really despressing for awhile but eventually you get to the point where coming home to beautiful, healthy kids in a house you can afford driving a car you own and being complete in love with your wife after years and you realize that you're a pretty fucking lucky guy. I'm sure you think you're going to race jet-ski's or be a fucking trapeeze artists or something glamorous but altogether stupid and pointless, and I hope you the best, but get with the program, sonny. Your live is as happy as you want it to be. My parents are damn near 65 years old, work out everyday, go to some different country annually on vacation, just got back from Australia, actually, so quit with the fucking mindset that all older people are dying in some bed somewhere pissing into a bag. I guarantee you I can find you a grip of seniors that would circles around your ass.

Sorry for the rant, but I really hate that "1984" mindset so many ingnorant-of-the-world fucks have. It's easy to have radical ideals in high school when mommy is buying your lunch everyday, but in the world, they don't mean shit.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Cyno]

Um, don't call me sonny, oldtimer. I'll be retired long before you or your children.

Yes I'm radical, but in a good way. If you could see that then maybe we could help eachother get the work done so no one has to do it. Ever heard of this little thing called automation?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Zorikin]

> Why not make a more efficient mechanical generator to convert directly to electricity instead?

Tony Smith came up with a novel answer to this question, but I prefer to think that what Morpheus told Neo was not actually true. In the film, the "human-based energy source" topic never comes up again, so I see no particular reason to believe it. The film doesn't say "human batteries", it only says that Morpheus says "human batteries".

As an alternative, perhaps the AIs are using the humans as biological computers of some sort.
See here for another.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[unicron]

Get the work done so no one has to do it? How many jobs do you know of that done right never have to be done again? Their are all a SHIT-TON of jobs so dynamic that automation is utterly impossible. And in the chance you do manage to make it so that your job gets completed everyday with 0 input from you, then what? More likely than not, you'd watch tv all day at home, reveling in your new found higher-consciousness uptopian freedom. It goes back to immortalility arguement: The same people that whine about being bored on a Sunday afternoon would love to be immortal. Chances are, your job is the most interesting thing that will happen to you in a given day.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[ziggy_zero]

Wow....a movie isn't realistic...big shocker there. Get the fuck over it. What image do you find more visually striking? A field of human babies being used as batteries (generators, whatever) - or a pile of compost? IT'S A MOVIE. People don't go to movies expecting a fucking science lesson or class in thermodynamics, or even for the physics of a hand to hand fight or explosion or space sounds to be realistic. People go to be....(dramatic pause here)...entertained. With the obvious exception of you, of course.

Yes, leather and guns and explosions are cool and popular - a real news flash there. Also cool were the visual effects done by John Gaeda. Do you think the Matrix movies have any grounding in reality? These are superhero movies, plain and simple.

While were at it, let's discuss how Superman couldn't possibly fly.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[LtOcelot]

Stupid explanations aren't entertaining -- they're distracting. If the screenwriters didn't have a good reason for why humans were being kept alive, they should have just said, "No one knows why they keep humans alive." It would have left a mystery much more interesting than the implausible and unnecessary explanation given.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[n3m6]

beowulf cluster of brains .
hehe

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Sri Lumpa]

"Suspension of disbelief does not work, i am afraid. You can't just explain away huge logical falacies away with that term."

You mean that you expect Peter Jackson to explain in Return Of The King the scientific principles governing how the one ring control the others? I mean, if he doesn't explain it better the movie is crap.

PS: Could you please e-mail me the blue prints of the warp drive or, even better, of the iconian portal?

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mikevdg]

Or... Perhaps people only *think* that the AI's need us for batteries (seeing that Neo failed science at school), when in actual fact, the AI's aren't in the slightest bit interested in how much energy we "produce" ("convert"? whatever.).

The AI's may have been originally programmed to not unnecessarily kill humans, as a clever programmer in the year 2010 might do. When the AI's took over the world, they couldn't kill us, so they locked us up.

In either case, I certainly hope that they fix this up in the sequels. I couldn't help but laugh when I heard the whole "copper-top" thing in the movie.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[UranusReallyHertz]

Um, assuming that inter-pod communications occur at at least at light-speed through fiber, then I would think that any latency would be far below what humans could detect. I mean, a good latency today for a server a few hundred miles away is less than a tenth of a second. No human could notice that.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mgblst]

You are mistaken, this is not suspension of disbelief. What your examples are is of sci-fi/ fantasy elements. The problem is huge plot holes in the story, logical inconsistincies. If we assume that a warp drive exists in a story, then it exists, we don't have to prove it. But if someone dies, yet somehow comes back to life in a scene later on, it might be nice to explain it.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[ziggy_zero]

They're certainly entertaining when you don't think too much about it. geez. I hate these people that overanalyze action or science fiction flicks. The fact that the computers used humans was integral to the irony - how we used to use the computers, and now the computers use us. You're still stuck on the fact that it's implausible. I reiterate: IT'S A MOVIE. If it's so distracting to you then you have a serious psychological problem that keeps you from enjoying movies for what they are. I'll go back to Superman - are people distracted by the fact that he's stronger and faster and can fly just because he's from another planet?! "That doesn't make any sense! That's an implausible explanation! I hate this movie!". C'mon.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[stmfreak]

What's the point? Why not make a more efficient mechanical generator to convert directly to electricity instead? By spreading the whole process out over several steps they are just wasting more energy than they really need to.

Because maybe this is just their interpretation of the three laws of robotics. For whatever reason, they cannot merely KILL the humans, but they can control their lives in the interest of security and safety. Like the government, trust us, my name is Agent ... Smith.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[Sri Lumpa]

Sorry to reply a week later but I was away at some friend's house for christmas.

"The problem is huge plot holes in the story, logical inconsistincies."

Yeah, but we are talking about breaking the second law of thermodynamics here, producing energy from harvesting humans without energetic input from the sun, which is just as impossible according to today's science as the warp drive and is just a McDuffin (or whatever is the term), that is a thing whose nature doesn't really matter because it is only here to justify the story. Like in Ronin, when they try to recover a briefcase but you never know what's inside and where it doesn't matter if it was the plans to a new weapon or next year's sports result or the answer to life, the universe and everything, so is it the case in Matrix where it doesn't matter wether humans are batteries or generators and how the hell do they break the laws of thermodynamics?

Saying that it is a plot hole because it would be more efficient to use a better process htat isn't using humans falls with the same problem, i.e. the film isn't about the soundness of using humans as energy sources, it is about the struggle against slavery of the human race.

Feel free to continue seeing these as plot hole, I will continue not to care and enjoy good movies while still knowing better than my non geeky friends that have no idea how stupid it would be if it was taken seriously as a "world energy shortage" solution.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus.

[mgblst]

Sure using humans as batteries is a silly idea. The one thing that keeps me interested is the fact, nah hope, that this turns out to be not the complete truth. Either morpheus is lying, for his own reasons, or he doesn't know the whole truth either.

i can see it now

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

dispite the recent 'jackass' stunts done on tv, a teenager will try to jump into another person, or jump off a cliff, or get into a telephone booth while getting a dump truck to smash into them... and then joe lieberman will want these movies controlled :)

Matrix

[jedir0x]

Sheesh, i only read the first paragraph or so in fear of ruining the entire movie for me! Of course i'll probably end up getting it in DivX format a few weeks before it comes out, especially when they have previews this far before the release date (I did with the matrix 1 anyway). Anyhow, i'm sure it will be a great movie.... but like all great movies, there are always someone who's going to say it sucked for some reason or another.

Re:Matrix

[LineNoiz]

Actually, the "spoilers" don't really spoil much. First off all, there are only two paragraphs in the entire article that spoil anything, and they are prefaced with "Skip this paragraph if you want to remain blissfully unaware" or something of that nature. I say read it anyway, it's a good read. You won't loose anymore than you will once you see the next teaser trailer or two.

The first Matrix was tailored for sequel(s).

[redfenix]

Why else would they kill off everyone except for the primary characters? (Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, and Tank iirc)

Spoilers

[galaga79]

You're not kidding about the spoilers, it almost gives away the entire end climax for "The Matrix Reloaded". I only skimmed the article but it seems like a quite informative read given that I knew very little about parts 2 and 3 prior. It is also interesting to note the following:-

Silver is promising a climactic battle like we've never seen before: a 17-minute sequence that alone cost about two thirds of the budget of the first "Matrix." (That film, in case you're wondering, cost $65 million.)

Given the recent discussions about the climatic battle in The Towers, and the Clone Wars in Episode which I found impressive, it seems to be the selling point of these movies and is making bigger and badder battles.

Re:Spoilers

[AyeRoxor!]

"Given the recent discussions about the climatic battle in The Towers, and the Clone Wars in Episode which I found impressive, it seems to be the selling point of these movies and is making bigger and badder battles."

This makes sense. The battle is the orgasm of a movie :) They even call it the 'climax' of the storyline, and fighting and sex are the two oldest and strongest instincts, probably indistinguishable on some levels in the brain. If you're getting a satisfactory mindfuck from the first matrix, and they want to lure you to the newest mental copulation, they need to promise and deliver a better orgasm :)

Spoilers?

[airrage]

You mean we don't win in the end? Come on, we're going to see the Wizard of Oz at the end right? And realize he's just a man behind a green curtain. Oh, I'm gonna wish for a new brain.... :)

But can Keanu Reeve's be more than dumbfounded?

[MyNameIsFred]

I always thought that the Matrix was perfect for Keanu Reeve's. For 90 percent of the movie, he had to stand around and act dumbfounded. Something he does quite well. In my opinion, the last ten minutes of the movie, where he "understands" his place in the Matrix, was where he did his worst acting.

Since in the sequels he'll be required to act more than dumbfounded, I'm not confident that he will be able to pull it off. Maybe that's why they're releasing bang-bang, one right after the other.

BTW, I have the same thoughts about casting in the Terminator, Arnold didn't have to act either. A perfect role.

Re:But can Keanu Reeve's be more than dumbfounded?

[aderusha]

i found it to be keanu reeve's best showing since bill and ted's for the very same reason - he's damn good at standing around being generally confused.

any part that actually requires him to act is another thing altogether...

Re:But can Keanu Reeve's be more than dumbfounded?

[GNUman]

So, he'd make a good Arthur Dent?

Re:But can Keanu Reeve's be more than dumbfounded?

[squireofgothos]

No, because he'd likely have to affect an english accent for us purists. And I can't imagine him sounding like anything other than some surfer dude...

I for one

[suman28]

I for one am really looking forward to seeing how the series ends. The first was a great movie. Usually sequels are not that great, but then again, this is not a sequel.

Re:I for one

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

I liked it too, it was a great action flick with a little bit of mysticism, and massive holes in the plot. Why did the Matrix let these programs in? Is there no MacAffee to stop the "TrinityAndNeoWithLotsOfGuns" program? Besides the whole physics aspect of it, why select humans as your battery? Why select the one animal that could organize enough to rise up? If the agents can make Keanu's mouth disappear (which would be freakish for him, and break out of the "Matrix respects physics" kinda mode) but the agents can't make his gun jam or him run out of bullets? Why would Cypher sell out? He can get all the pseudo-stuff he wants in the computers on the ship, he doens't need the Matrix to give it to him. I could go on with holes for hours, but it was a good action film, with groundbreaking special effects, though I've never been happy that a movie that revolutionized filmmaking has anything to do with Keanu.

Though the special effects set new standards, a lot of this was due to the marrying of Hong Kong style action to a big budget Hollywood film. Check out some of John Woo's work, especially with Tony Leung and Chow Yun Phat and you'll see some good stuff. Teh Matrix stuff wasn't really groundbreaking compared to whats been going on in HK for years, just bigger budget, and more people saw it.

As far as the sequels stuff goes, my opinion is that there are two types of sequels, those to make money and those to continue the story. Those ther just to make money, generally suck. They forget that one of the reasons we liked the first movie is that they showed us new people, new characters, new actions. Then they find various ways of re-hashing. Another 48 hours, Rocky series, Police Academy series. Nothing new. The better ones have a story to tell, a different one. The Matrix sequels seem to have that a bit, though I have more hope for 3 (when they fight in the real world) then in 2, in which they fight in the Matrix, which they've already done to some extent.

Extra X for Exciting!

[burgburgburg]

Or Xavier Cugat.

Xylaphone.

Xenomorph.

Xantac.

Or not.

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[TBone]

Reloaded and Revolutions are sequels to Matrix 1.

The next 2 that come out will be the prequels.

So, the lineup looks like:

Prequel 1
Prequel 2
The Matrix
Matrix Reloaded
Matris Revolutions

Spoiler

[PD]

So, the article says that they capture the keymaker who has all the keys to the doors in the matrix.

I hope that this movie is a little more than Neo and Trinity slapping the keymaker around in a room on the Nebuchadnezzar, yelling "sign my certificate! SIGN MY CERTIFICATE! SIGN IT NOW!"

Re:Spoiler

[Capt. DrunkenBum]

If Trinity is topless, I would still pay too see that movie.

Re:Spoiler

[RatBastard]

Or worse: "There is no Trinity. There is only Zuul!"

Re:Spoiler

[PD]

That's a different movie: Matrixxx.

1) The red pill is viagra.
2) Trinity gets her name from the fact she likes threesomes.
3) Switch is a lesbian. OK, that's the same as the original.
4) Tank and Dozer are a tag team.
5) Morpheus says to Neo "are you sure that's snapper you're licking?"
6) The Nebuchadnezzar is a large vibrating bed.
7) People are connected to the matrix through one BIG plug, not lots of small ones running down their backs.
8) Cypher's main gripe is that he's sick of all the phone sex.
9) Agents can only take over people who rarely get sex. This is why they always take over policemen and military types.
10) The Oracle is called the Oralcle. After she sees Neo she's disappointed and says "no cookie for you. But I can see why that slut Trinity likes you."

Re:Spoiler

[Capt. DrunkenBum]

I am pretty sure I saw that one..

I believe it got 4 out of 5 hardons in the adult film review.

Re:Spoiler

[PD]

While I realize that others might be positively overjoyed at the sight of 5 hardons, I don't think that I'd use that particular metric as an indicator of eroticism.

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[jgerman]

I'm not quite sure what plot holes, you're referring to.

1. Morpheus didn't die.

2. Neo didn't "beat" the Matrix.

I'm really not looking forward to a sequel. The original was well done and a good movie. The sequels will be nothing but overtold action flicks. However, the justification can be made, without plot holes, for sequels, I just don't feel that they SHOULD be made.

Yup

[Auckerman]

"The Matrix" borrowed heavily from several sources, mostly comic books, Japanese anime and Asian kung fu movies (graphic). "But I think people misunderstand art when they say things like that," says Pope. "Once you filter an influence through yourself, it's not the same thing anymore--if you really filter it. There's a film vocabulary out there, and it's for everybody to use."

This is exactly why copyright should fall in the public domain after a short time.

Re:Yup

[bje2]

how about "Alice in Wonderland"...the article forgot to mention that, but there were some good AIW themes/similarities in the Matrix...

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[Moloch666]

Actually morpheus did not die. He almost did. At the end Neo became the one or whatever. I believe he killed one of the Agents? Or did something to make the others run after jumping in side of him. Also acording to what I heard in the past I believe the agents will be able to spawn multiple processes of themselves. So I guess the they are Agent 2.0.

Plus the machines still rule the real world. So even if the Matrix were destroyed there's still more movie to go around.

Sigh, you don't get it..

[Anonymous Coward]

This has NOTHING to do with hollywood trying to squeeze more money. The Wachowski brothers originally conceived the matrix as a trilogy! If you had a read the article you would see where it was even stipulated before the first movie was made. There were manuscripts for 2 and 3 and talk of making them before the Matrix even went big. This is not a secret. Some people just run out of things to say I guess..

Re:Sigh, you don't get it..

[jgerman]

Uhh, yeah, that means I didn't read the story. Or it COULD mean that I knew they were planned in advance I STILL feel they aren't needed... which they aren't.

Re:Sigh, you don't get it..

[StillNeedMoreCoffee]

So whats wrong with a standard action movies?

Re:Sigh, you don't get it..

[jgerman]

Nothing, to each his own, but for me the Matrix was a great movie, I hate to see it degenerate (that's obviously MHO) into just an action movie. They're boring as far as I'm concerned.

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[Crockerboy]

Morpheus never died in the first one and the Matrix was never "beaten" in the first one. Neo just became self aware and was able to break the rules of the Matrix. The matrix itself was alive and kicking though for 4 billion or so people still plugged in.
Of course, I'm only going off of what was in the original release, maybe they left some scenes off and included them in the $79.99 limited special collectors edition that I didn't see.

Virtual cinematography

[ThinWhiteDuke]

Near the end of the MSNBC article :"Once we have the master performance captured," Gaeta explains, "we can actually use it to create an event, like a martial-arts fight. But it could be anything."

Wow, I hope that Reeves, Moss, Fishburn, Weaving and the others read their contracts VERY carefully. If they didn't, their next movies will be shot without them. A weird idea : movie stars replaced by their own virtual persona...

I can die a happy man!

[MyNameIsFred]

I've been attacked by a grammer troll. Maybe that's a syntax troll? Ah who cares, I've been trolled!

Re:Lord of the Rings

[Synocco]

Actually, the Top 250 ranking is not based on the normal rating. It's a different formula with different weightings that favours IMDB staff. So while the LoTR 2 is publically rated at 9.2, it's rated at 8.7 for Top 250 ranking purposes... leaving it at spot #9 all time for now.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[spanky1]

I guess my point (if it wasn't apparent) is that sequels can be better than the original, even though the original doesn't seem that it can be topped. Of course history shows that usually does not happen, but we can be hopeful. :)

Re:Matrixx?

[Dannon]

"Whoa. Deja vu."
"What?"
"I saw a mispelling go by, then I saw another one, just like it."
"How much like it? Was it the same mispelling?"
"I dunno, might've been."

Ummm...

[redtail1]

...and why would I want to spoil the movies? I like to be surprised in the theater, something that's increasingly difficult to do the way trailers give away the entire plot of most movies.

Re:Matrixx?

[csguy314]

"There is no story."

Re:i hope i'm not disappointed again....

[smd4985]

THANK YOU!
gollum was WAY too cutesy. gollum is a villainous wretch of a creature, corrupted by absolute evil for over 500 years. it is true he had a pathetic, obsequious side, but jackson made him WAY too likeable....

and gimli was unfairly cast as a clown. the guy killed 49 orcs during one battle in the book but he can't keep up with aragorn and legolas during their manly run in the movie.

and how did merry and pippin not only manage to TRICK treebeard into destroying isengard, but they also ensured that the whole lot of other ents were in the woods when treebeard conveniently got hot. very cheap and prostethic, the usual hollywood crapola....

Ugh, tired of SCSG's

[Mantrid]

They're everywhere, the more popular and big something is the more of them seem to pop up. They gain a feeling of superiority from poo-poo-ing whatever comes out and they get even worse if something they like becomes popular - they must maintain their pet likes to maintain their feeling of being better than others, but they must keep some other pet interest as a backdoor in case too many people starting liking their primary. They only like stuff 'before it was popular'. They listen to bands like 'U2' or read books like LOTR and like to think they understand it on a deeper level then the unwashed masses, or the pedestrian scum.

The Matrix was a lot of fun, a great movie to watch. It was always meant to be part of a trilogy. The same directors are putting even more work into the next one with all of the passion and enthusiasm they can muster. They are developing cutting edge effects once again. But no, they're sure that the Matrix:Reloaded will suck - they haven't seen more than a whiff of a trailer, but they are all-knowing and all-seeing, the judges of all that is.

Holy crap people, just enjoy the freaking movies already...

Re:Ugh, tired of SCSG's

[Nodatadj]

> They only like stuff 'before it was popular'. They
> listen to bands like 'U2' or read books like LOTR

Are these 2 sentences not mutually exclusive?

And am I not allowed to just dislike the movie cos I thought it was crap and wasn't interesting in the slightest? Do I have to enjoy all movies, or only ones you liked?

Re:Ugh, tired of SCSG's

[Mantrid]

Of course some people will think certain movies are crap and express their thoughts accordingly.

I'm talking about a particular type of person who must, seemingly by nature, attack every movie, every book, as a means of building themselves up and making them feel superior to others. The Simpson Comic Shop Guy incarnate. It just gets annoying. I guess they are just pure cynics; they are never satisified with anything.

Now of course they are allowed to think that way. And I'm allowed to be annoyed by it! Now of course there will be those who are annoyed by people that find cynics annoying....

Re:i hope i'm not disappointed again....

[Abcd1234]

Actually, I never once thought Gollum was cute... unfortunately, some of the scenes where Gollum appeared funny were probably not deliberate. For example, when he was "fighting" with himself... many people laughed in the theatre, whereas I felt pity for him. And that was the point: I started to feel for Gollum. He was taken by the ring and used. He couldn't control his destiny, and now he finds himself twisted and warped. And at the same time, Gollum serves as a mirror for Frodo; an image of what he could become if he is not strong enough. So, Gollum also provides additional insight into the struggle Frodo is enduring.

As for the way he is depicted, in the books, he fawns over Frodo, at first, because Frodo is the first person to ever take pity on him and be kind to him. Later, of course, it becomes an act when Frodo effectively betrays him (probably one of the more heartwrenching scenes in the movie and the books, as, at that point, Gollum is truly foresaken) and Gollum decides to lead him into Shelob's lair.

Now, as for Gimli... I couldn't agree more. Dwarves are depicted in the books as strong, honourable, and dignified, if a little bit stupid and greedy at times (eg, The Hobbit). But to turn him into comic relief went much too far, IMHO.

The double X can only mean one thing...

[sjwoo]

Redd Foxx will rise from the dead via CGI. Maybe you'll see his clunker on the freeway scene...

Copy cats...

[Sh0t]

Somebody please tell me why every action movie after the matrix had to incorporate "bullet-time" into every fight scene?

Re:Copy cats...

[sparrow_hawk]

EVEN FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS!!!

Grrr... sorry. That *almost* ruined the movie for me -- this grand, epic film and then... "whee, let's watch Legolas's arrow hit an orc between the eyes." Hrmpf.

It's still a marvellous film, that just *really* annoyed me.

Why is it...

[blamanj]

...that a supposedly "futuristic" movie has to devolve into car chases?

Hollywood...we blow things up.

Re:Why is it...

[Waab]

Why is it that a supposedly "futuristic" movie has to devolve into car chases?

Plain and simple,
car chases rule.

Re:Why is it...

[mgblst]

Car chases suck. The only decent car chase, was the one in duckman episode, "I, Duckman", the very first episode.

Re:Why is it...

[drivers]

As opposed to kung fu fighting and gunplay? What's your point?

The Script

[buddhaunderthetree]

Is here how close it is to the final film version, I don't know.

here's a review I did

[smack_attack]

I'm pretty sure I was the first to preview this movie, I collected scraps from the Warner Bros cutting room floor and was able to piece together an in-depth review:

http://www.stephenvandyke.com/?p=article&id=21 06

Must...resist...MPAA...

[Sir Network]

I know what they are doing.
They're sending out video clips to MSNBC and watching us... testing us.
They've secretly switched on our webcams and microphones to watch and listen to us twist first in glee, then agony as we weigh the moral decision that falls before us on May 15th.

"Ahhh... sweet, stylized violence..."
"But they want DRM on my cat's thoughts!"

Bastards.

Guns, lots of guns

[John Harrison]

That was about all I knew about The Matrix when I went into the theater (I had seen the trailer) and I was blown away. Completely surprised by the plot and the details. Because of this I am avoiding any spoilers for the next two. I wouldn't want to know what to expect. Though it is tempting to know what happens I will resist!

Re:Guns, lots of guns

[mgblst]

If all you like is guns, I bet you were suprised when you discovered that it actually had a plot.

Spoiler for the next two: No guns...

Re:Guns, lots of guns

[John Harrison]

Spoiler for the next two: No guns...

Crap, I knew I shouldn't have read any responses.

Actually I didn't care much for the guns, I just thought that particular line in the trailer was hilarious and is signified that this was going to be a movie that went a step beyond anything the had come before.

Re:i hope i'm not disappointed again....

[LineNoiz]

Here are some of my own gripes to throw on the fire. Why did they (By they, I mean Jackson) decide to make the Ents decide to not get involved? What the hell was the point of that? And why did they turn Theoden into a sniveling "let's go hide in the mountains" wimp? Once Gandalf freed his mind, Theoden was all for going to war, why did they have to change that?
And what's up with Faramir? He was supposed to be more honorable than his brother, but they turned him into a clone of Boromir.

I understand that a movie simply can't be exactly like the book. I'm pretty forgiving of that (I actually like Battlefield Earth (book and movie)). But there was really no reason for this. I don't think it added anything to the movie, it just took away from the story.

Things that are stupid in the matrix

[jmacleod9975]

Sorry if someone already pointed this out, but doesn't it bother anyone that the reason the machines are keeping people around is to use them as batteries. That is so stupid. There is no way people would make an efficent battery for machines. You have to put a lot of energy in, and it would not be easy to extract. Then you have the energy it takes to setup the ability to feed all those people, it just doesn't make sense. Even if you can make some convincing arguement for why the machines should use people as batteries. Why not just lobotomize them, then you don't even need a matrix. Its not like they have to physically procreate, they could just do everything the same but have breain-dead people instead. So I am not just seen as a complainer, I will offer up another rationale for why the machines might create a matrix. Maybe they need us for our brains, not our "battery-like bodies". Maybe it turns out that the matrix is just a beowulf cluster of people that use our massively parallel brains to process stuff. Then at least it would make sense to have eveyone jacked in. Because when you are busy doing whatever "work" you are doing in the matrix, in reality you are calculating PI to a gazillion decimal places for the machines, or some other explanation like that.

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Read about The Matrix' bad movie Physics from the Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics Page

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[LineNoiz]

Mayhap the machines feel indebted to humans? Read the article, it aludes to the fact that not all machines are "bad." So, maybe the highest powered machines don't want to destroy their creators and have found a method of keeping them alive, happy and useful all at the same time. Probably not the most efficient method, but if you factor this argument in, it at least makes sense in some way.

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[Waab]

I'm afraid we can't pin the whole "humans-as-batteries" thing on The Matrix. Stephen King had that little nugget of joy working in The Tommyknockers more than a decade before Neo first said "Whoa".

I think the real reason the machines would keep people around after taking over the earth is quite simple. Without humans, the machines wouldn't have anything to do. Do you honestly think that once the machines took over they would be able to keep themselves occupied for more than a few minutes without humans?

Let's face it, no matter how sentient machines may become, they're most likely still going to be constrained by some finite-valued logic system. They need us for new ideas. Without new ideas, they'll have nothing to do. With nothing to do, they might as well not exist.

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[Andy_R]

It would have been so easy to say the machines used human brains as CPUs, and that's why they kept us around, instead of the battery rubbish.

I assume that in the later films we must find out that Morpheus was wrong about the reason the machnes are keeping humans around.

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[br0ck]

I was looking for a great explanation of this flaw that I read last year, but couldn't find it. However, I found that there have been some interesting threads on this topic mostly hoping that in the next movies we'll find that there were purposes for keeping humans around other than for use as batteries.

To save clicking all the links the ideas include things like brains being used as a massively parallel computer, AI existing within the brains and simulation, AI protecting humans due to the Asimov laws, humans creating the simulation and becoming addicted to it, and human brains being used as a fusion regulator.

Re:Things that are stupid in the matrix

[taion]

Let's face it, no matter how sentient machines may become, they're most likely still going to be constrained by some finite-valued logic system. They need us for new ideas. Without new ideas, they'll have nothing to do. With nothing to do, they might as well not exist.

Except human neurones (all neurones rather) are a finite-valued logic system too. As are all the chemical reactions that power them. Oops. There goes that line of thought.

Heretic!

[jabber01]

You, my friend, have just explained away all religion. I hope you're proud of yourself!

Seriously, consider what you've said in the context of the casting out from the Garden of Eden of Adam and Eve. They tasted of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, they desired to be like God in the one manner which God had forbidden them. They learned the truth and fell from grace. Ignorance was bliss, as living in ignorance is as living in Paradise. As we grow in knowledge, we desire to return to the innocence of our ignorant youth. Hence, by tempting Eve with the fruit of the tree, Satan became both Man's damnation and teacher. And, in consideration of what you say about choosing truth, Lucifer is The Messiah, who freed us from ignorance.

Re:Heretic!

[cheeseSource]

Yes, God was a cretin who wanted subserviant "lambs". Satan gave the power to actually take control and not live like idiots. That is in a figurative manner as those are just stories like greek/norse mythology. Damn, I wish people would move on and cut out that faith nonesense...

Re:Heretic!

[jafac]

Um, God made Adam and Eve in His image, so they were already "like" Him, weren't they?

Re:Heretic!

[AyeRoxor!]

"Damn, I wish people would move on and cut out that faith nonesense..."

Hahahah, what if that's just what the big 'D' wants you to say!? In essence, you have become the sheep! :P

Re:Centropolis shut down?

[furiousgeorge]

Centropolis was NOT doing the majority of the CGI work - they were doing a minimum amount of work.... around 100 shots. And that work has been moved over to Sony Pictures Imageworks who is more than capable.

Who ya gonna call?

[jmoriarty]

The article mentions how the Matrix used ideas from other stories, and I see a Key Maker is an integral part of the plot. Could this be none other than Vince Clortho, the Keymaster of Gozer?

Out of work these many years and demoted to Key Maker, he has aligned himself with the uber-machines in an attempt to regain control of the mortal realm. Can Neo defeat the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Battle Droid? Will Morpheus and Trinity have to cross their streams? Only time will tell!

(Before anyone tries to debunk this by pointing out that the Key Maker is played by "a tiny Asian man", have you seen any pictures of Rick Moranis lately?)

Re:that's matrix with one x

[mustangdavis]

No, this time, there going to use a 2D matrix ... and they need a way to index it :)

I know, that was bad, but c'mon, you wanna laugh ...

Re:Matrixx?

[tornater]

Was your misspelling of "mispelling" intentional? Funny either way.

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[Darth_brooks]

Beating the Matrix isn't that hard. Up down Up Down Left Right Left Right B A B A Start (the sequence he used to be Morpheus) gave him Thirty Lives. They just edited out the other 28 attempts to improve to flow of the film.

Not possible anyways

[phorm]

Nice try at BS'ing... and it would make a cool plot twist. The only problem is that agents are electronic and computerized entities. The don't have human bodies. Unless Neo were an android, which I'm sure they would have realized as they were rebuilding his body etc etc, that plot twist is a no-fly.

Still thing it would be cool though.

ObComment on Equilibrium

[mbourgon]

If you haven't seen Equilibrium yet (or have no idea what I'm talking about), do yourself a favor and go take a look.

Reason I mention it in this thread is that some of the influences are the same, most people who liked The Matrix will like this, and it's too good a movie to die this quickly. I saw it last Thursday, and was astounded by it. Sure, there are a lot of cool fight scenes, but it's also a good movie, doing certain things you didn't expect (several bits of foreshadowing are slick), has an actual story, good acting, good dialog, makes you think, and overall is a great movie.

Go see it.

Re:is this a prequel or a sequel?

[LineNoiz]

Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A SELECT Start.

Neo got revived too...

Even worse.......

[Ride-My-Rocket]

Consider this the first of next year's ads for Matrixx Reloaded and Matrixx Revolutions releases.

Maybe this is the start of a crossover -- Vin Diesel meets Lawrence Fishburn, Carrie Ann Moss and Keanu Reeves. Scary.... between Vin and Keanu, there's gonna be a lot of "whoa"-type dialogue.

Do you want to (have to) live forever?

[SecurityGuy]

I like the idea that a big story can be told in a reasonable time. The matrix from 1999 to 2003 is...longish. LOTR in 3 years is...longish. In each case I see the film and think "I can't wait to see the next one." I have to, and to be blunt, that bites. If the sequel came out a month later, I'd be *highly* likely to see it. If it comes out years later, I might well be interested in other things by then.

Then there's Star Wars, which is pushing 30 years to finish a story which can be summed up as "Faction takes over galaxy, nefarious faction leader subverts powerful good guy, child of subverted good guy reconverts dad, who kills nefarious faction leader, presumably freeing galaxy."

Seriously, I've had friends (well, one, but one's enough) born around or after Episode IV who didn't live long enough to see Episode II. I don't want a movie to cover a major span of my life. It's entertainment. Give it to me over a shorter span, or don't expect me to get too invested in it. These guys get major credit from me for shooting the movies simultaneously and not making me wait 5 years for the conclusion.

Re:Do you want to (have to) live forever?

[dupper]

Star Wars is not just entertainment!!!

***Rocks back and forth on filthy floor in foetal position, continues shaking, wipes rabid foam from corner of mouth***

Re:Do you want to (have to) live forever?

[SecurityGuy]

You're one of those Aussie Jedi, aint'cha?

Well....

[eclectro]

I guess this means that the MPAA boycott is off....

Exactly my point

[jabber01]

The story of being cast out of the Garden of Eden, in my opinion, undoes the rest of the Bible, and Religion in general. The Bible is a paradox, and everyone sees in it what they want.

Let's just for a moment assume the existence of God, and the creation of all things, including Man, by this God. If God gave us free will, it would not be to see that gift wasted. So, even according to the Bible itself, blind obedience like the one that Religion demands, is a Sin.

Re:Exactly my point

[AyeRoxor!]

"So, even according to the Bible itself, blind obedience like the one that Religion demands, is a Sin."

Lol. Seeing as grand generalizations are almost always wrong, you want to stand by the statement that nowhere in the bible does it say to just believe? Or that it says somewhere that blind belief/faith is a sin?

References please? :-P

Re:Exactly my point

[jabber01]

Seeing as I'm already on Santa's "naughty" list, what's it matter if I also risk pissing off God?

Matrixx?

[grub]

Isn't it spelled Matrix... unless, of course, Redd Foxx wrote the storyline.

Prequels? WTF?

[Wee]

Reloaded and Revolutions are sequels to Matrix 1. The next 2 that come out will be the prequels.

Have you, by chance, been away for a very long time in a place without access to mainstream media?

There are three movies in the series. "The Matrix" was the first one. We've already seen that one, by the way. "The Matrix Reloaded" will be the second. "The Matrix Revolutions" will be the third. And that's pretty much all there is. No prequels. Just the three. Or am I missing something in your post?

-B

Don't read this

[MicroBerto]

I stopped reading this article halfway through. I don't want to know ANY of this... and see no benefit to reading the rest of the article, except you will no longer be surprised when some things happen.

Re:Thanks a lot, Morpheus. - MOD PARENT FUNNY.

[AyeRoxor!]

LOL. I guess you have a point :P

Only one thing can save the Matrix films...

[Slur]

Wil Wheaton!

Re:Only one thing can save the Matrix films...

[Snover]

Really? I thought it was gratuitous sex scenes with Carrie-Anne Moss.

I am sooo glad I knew nothing about the 1st movie.

[krinsh]

I just followed my friends in to see it one night and was completely blown away. Why, oh why didn't *I* take the blue pill? That was the first movie in many years I went out of my way to see several times in the theater; and have seen several more times since then on video and DVD. I skimmed these articles; and am an avid viewer of whatisthematrix.com, but I am trying to avoid spoilers myself because I hope that the next two are the equals of their predecessor.

Humans as Hard Drives, Not Batteries

[Databass]

The whole Humans as Power Source part of the Matrix really bothered me. The machines would entrap humans only if they needed a resource that only humans could provide. That resource is not energy. I don't care how many BTUs of energy the human body produces, the machines could get more energy by combining "a form of fusion" in rats, cockroaches, or maybe algae. Any of those life forms would be far simpler to care for and less rebellious too.

So I've concluded that Morpheus is somewhat incorrect (GASP) and that the machines are using humans as hard drives, not batteries. Think about it. This explains the Matrix a lot better. We know that the Agents can "possess" any human by "teleporting" into them. This is essentially copying their entire data into that human's brain at amazing bandwidth. We can assume that with its great interconnectivity and ability to store huge quantities of data such as video and audio, the human mind is one of the only appropriate storage mediums for the machines. This would explain why the machines create a world that attempts to stimulate the human brain as opposed to inducing a comatose state or inflicting the newborne humans with mental retardation: Only a healthy mind makes an acceptable organic host for the machines.

This line of thinking even hints at a possible resolution for the entire series: The humans could help the Machines invent a replacement storage medium besides human brains. Any information medium with data density equal the human brain should be sufficient. Then the machines could agree to float off into space and inhabit only worlds inhospitable to humans. (There are plenty.) This would leave the humans free to live out their lives on M class planets, although I suspect they would only pollute them to death anyway. (Agent Smith was pretty accurate in his assesment of industrial humans as viral.)

I've wanted to get this off my chest for a long time, now that I've posted on slashdot I can consider myself heard. ; -)

I've always wondered what the Matrix was coded in?

[BurKaZoiD]

I've always wondered what the Matrix was coded in? C? (naw, too structured, it'd be a TON of code, and hard to maintain). C++? (possibly, it's still the speed king, aside from assembly, and templates offer a wonderful way to create metalanguages to describe things in a high level, plus I love love LOVE object oriented programming). Heaven forbid, maybe it's VISUAL BASIC! Since you can SEE everything in the Matrix, it would make sense, right?!? Ok, that's a joke. But seriously though, the question stands. Plus, what kind of hardware does this thing run on? A Beowulf cluster of WHAT??? Oh, and the most important thing...do you think it's Intel inside, or AMD?

Ok, shit...I'm sure Microsoft had a hand in it...the head squiggly is prolly Billy Gates. So, the Matrix is probably in all reality The Matrix.Net!!!

Re:Lord of the Rings

[ealar dlanvuli]

It's also important to note they aern't sequels, they are one year interludes while they finish the CG elements for the next movie.

The year is like a big long intermission.

It makes alot more sense if you think of it that way.

Man...

[Bob Vila's Hammer]

How long does it take to reload the damn Matrix. I mean what could possibly necessitate a four year lapse in movie to sequel.

You know, I'm having trouble believing that this whole thing is real and now I'm ready to plug my pp back in and go back to sleep. That nyquil capsule wore off bout summer 2001. So get Vicks on the line and finish that shiz before my jelly basin fills back up with jello.

5kr1p7 k1dd13z 1uvz d4 M47R1X!

[ChaoticLimbs]

D4 L337357 skr1p7 k1d33z luvz d4 M4tr1x! 1t's d4 b3st m0v13 1 3v3r s33n! 1t'5 l1k3 1t w4z m4d3 f0r uz h4x0rz!
Seriously like, the Matrix, like, is totally the best movie for us super-elite types. Totally exactly like hacking. No boring research. just massive graphics- like in hollywood when you, like, hack into a system remotely, right before you are able to actually command the remote system to do anyting useful, you gotta succesfully navigate the 3d tunnel things!

So you're saying.....

[ChaoticLimbs]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of Human Beings?
cool.
I want one.

Coupla things...

[Merovign]

1. Regarding the "why the inefficient battery" thing, not that the article said something about "differences of opinions" between the machines, older, larger, slower machines and newer, more ruthless machines? Some interesting thoughts occur, since the older machines were also made by men (and thus perhaps had hardwired instructions to protect humans which was twisted to the "humangardening" in the Matrix...).

Or maybe they're using unused human processing cycles to calculate pi to 3.8x10^34 digits.

2. I have no problem with catsuits and guns. I just hope they don't have cops thumb-cocking Glocks the second time around.

3. I don't know that fans of HK actions movies saw anything really new - just the most refined version so far. And the best excuse so far for those superhuman action feats. The sense of style was great.

But the really cool thing is I saw hardwired Commies and John Birchers coming out of The Matrix believing that the themes really spoke to them... can you say universal human concerns and stories? I really hope they continue with that kind of theme and don't try to get blatanty political in the next two movies, or they'll likely lose half their audience.

Last Post!

[alpg]

The energy produced by the breaking down of the atom is a very poor kind
of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation
of these atoms is talking moonshine.
-- Ernest Rutherford, after he had split the atom for
the first time

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...