A Commodore 64 For The New Millenium

samdu writes "The CommodoreOne is now available for purchase. The C=1 is a reimplementation of the Commodore=64 in an ATX form factor, 65c816 processor running at approximately 20 MHz, VGA out, an updated SID (with backward compatibility), 32 MB of RAM, standard IDE, PS/2 ports, and a 64 compatible cartridge slot. Let the hobbying begin." We've run previous stories on related efforts.

Comments

Ya! For the C64

[Anonymous Coward]

The C64 was my first computer, I used to write my code on a legal sheet..debug it, then type it in!

Re:Ya! For the C64

[davidsn]

I used to write software in the back of my maths book and type them in when I got home, on my VIC20. To me it just looks like someone having a bit of a mess around trying to make this. They can't seriously anticipate making any real money out of it.

Re:Ya! For the C64

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you an idiot? Do you know what this will look like on her CV? Any *real* company that does actual _engineering_ as opposed to ass-kissing, dick-sucking and ball-chinning (read: most companies these days, unfortunately) and sees that this was done without a university around to help everytime a LED doesn't light up, will understand that this is *talent*, not just absorbing what other people have done before (ie: sitting in a university and being taught, as opposed to having talent and *doing*)

Re:Ya! For the C64

[poohknight]

Ah, the memories. I bought my first computer, a VIC-20 with the cassette tape drive, from a friend in 1984. I upgraded to the Commodore 128 in 1987 or 1988, and used both the C64 and C128 modes extensively.

The 128, along with GEOS (mentioned in someone else's post), the 1541 and 1581 disk drives, and 2400 bps modem even got me through college. I only got rid of my last issues of RUN Magazine a couple of years ago. Wonderful stuff.

What is this good for?

[norculf]

The subject says it all: who in their right mind would want such a thing?

Re:What is this good for?

[isNaN]

Are you crazy!?

It's a babe magnet!!

Re:What is this good for?

[flynn_nrg]

Some games that relied in pure cpu power, games that used the freescape engine like Dark Side, ran very slowly on the C64, since it was just 1MHz. With this new computer you'll be able to fully enjoy them. ;-)

Honestly, besides the 'because we can' and geek value, I can't imagine why would one want one, but the C64 hackers have been enchancing their hardware for years, adding modems, ide drivers, almost anything you can imagine. It's a very active community.

Re:What is this good for?

[GhostseTroll]

A professor at the University of Mississippi is giving a
lecture on the supernatural. To get a feel for his
audience, he asks: "How many people here believe in
ghostses?" About 90 students raise their hands.

"Well, that's a good start. Out of those of you who
believe in ghostses, do any of you think you've ever seen
a ghostse?" About 40 students raise their hands.

"That's really good. Has anyone here ever talked to a
ghostse?" 15 students raise their hands.

"That's great. Has anyone here ever touched a ghostse?" 3
students raise their hands.

"That's fantastic. But let me ask you one question
further... Have any of you ever made love to a ghostse?"
One student way in the back raises his hand.

The professor is astonished and says, "Son, in all the
years I've been giving this lecture, no one has ever
claimed to have slept with a ghostse. You've got to come
up here and tell us about your experience."

The redneck student replies with a nod and a grin, and
begins to make his way up to the podium. The professor
says, "Well, tell us what it's like to have sex with a
ghostse."

The student replies, "Ghostse?!? From ah-way back there ah
thought yuh said "goatse."

Re:What is this good for?

[repetty]

I've read that there's a healthy community of people who still write C64 software both in the US and in Europe. They get off of work coding on modern computers and then go home and challenge themselves with writing the most efficient code possible -- a novel and comparitively low priority in current software development. Think of it as building a ship in a bottle. One could build the ship outside the bottle, but where the fun it that? --Richard

Re:What is this good for?

[davidsn]

You see writing efficent code as 'novel'? Remind me never to employ you :-p

Re:What is this good for?

[repetty]

I certainly find that most software customers aren't the least bit interested in efficiency.

They want... FEATURES!!! ;->

Re:What is this good for?

[reallocate]

Don't be such a curmudgeon:-)

Who cares what it's good for? Some folks had fun building it; some other folks will have fun playing with it. That's all the purpose anyone needs.

Re:What is this good for?

[einhverfr]

Next we will see someone selling the Model T for the New Mellenium!!! ;-)

Don't get me wrong, but this looks like a bad idea, as much as I like the C-64.

Re:What is this good for?

[Vanessa2002]

Already being done.

Re:What is this good for?

[haggar]

That was a sarcastic comment, a kind of criticism directed towards nowaday's lack of efficiency in programming.

I'm amazed you didn't get it. Remind me never to employ you. (I actually do interview some of our candidates).

Re:What is this good for?

[davidsn]

I guess it all depends on what kind of software you work on. But for me, effieciency is all too important. You seem to have taken offense at my comment, which is odd. I certainly didn't intend that.

Re:What is this good for?

[haggar]

But for me, effieciency is all too important.
And so is for the original poster. That's why he/she was sarcastic.

Re:What is this good for?

[SirDaShadow]

or get an emulator on the PC (like Vice) and remove the throttle for up to 1000% faster gameplay :)

Re:What is this good for?

[Black Rabbit]

I recall about ten years ago, possibly/probably more, Pat Bedard wrote a column in Car and Driver in which he extolled the virtues of a new commuter vehicle. It was to be fuel efficient, cheap and easy to manufacture, maintain and repair, easy to drive , even though it's top speed was only about 45 miles per hour, (it was pointed out that most commutes average far less than this), and would have been the ultimate city vehicle. He finished up by telling the reader that the vehicle did, in fact, exist, and 17 million of them had been produced between 1908 and 1927, (surpassed only by the venerable VW Beetle...no, not that new thing).

So, while nobody's expecting the C1 to become the new Model T of computers, it certainly does fill a niche!

Re:What is this good for?

[JoeCommodore]

If you look at the specs it does more than just 64 emulation - it is a progression, the video and sound 'chips' (if you call them that), are several factors more powerful then the originals (which held their on in their day - i remember making PC users in the late 80s jealous of the 64s features.). Also the processor is up to 20x faster than the 64s original 1mghz (don't knock it till you've seen it), add into that modern interfaces for keyboard, mouse etc.

What's it good for? Whatever you want it to be, it's got speed, interfacing, portable friendly power system, and unlike modern PCs one person can understand the entire workings of the unit.

I consider it the new hobby computer, all the interfacing and video stuff we wish we had access to with a platform that is really easy to understand and work with at a low level. Good for experimenting with new concepts.

Re:What is this good for?

[LOADSTAR Dave]

Who in their right mind would allow themselves to be sucked into the commercial consumer up-grade-ism that passes for computer science today?? The C-1 is a hobbyist machine, allowing moderately gifted home programmers a safe and sane environment to try ANYTHING! But, I suppose those who don't know the Commodore Classic could not understand. Dave

Good news

[Amsterdam Vallon]

... for Junis!

*nix.org -- Got *nix?

Back to basics.

[Anonymous Coward]

10 ? "IN SOVIET RUSSIA"
20 ? "YOU ARE COMMODORE MILLLENIUM"
30 ? " "
40 GOTO 10

Re:Back to basics.

[Drasil]

poke 808,251

10 let i=0
20 print "I am a C64! ";
30 poke 53280,i
40 poke 53281,i
50 goto 20

run

Re:Back to basics.

[Anonymous Coward]

That would probably work fancier if you'd actually increase the 'i' variable in that loop.

Or it could just be that you're a bit generous with variable memory, but then again, 64k ought to be enough for anybody.

Re:Back to basics.

[Drasil]

Oops :)

Re:Back to basics.

[LOADSTAR Dave]

Er -- oops. Needs

45 i = (i + 1) and 15
46 if i = 1 then 45
15 poke 646, 1

For C=64/128 fun, see www.loadstar.com

Imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

A beowolf cluster of these!

Re:Imagine...

[fussman]

1. In soviet russia, 2. beowulf cluster joke 3. fails you. 4. ??? 5. Profit!!!

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems incrediby pointless. If I want to play C64 games, well my C64 is just over the other side of the room in storage and works fine (those things were built to last) if I want to do anything approaching modern I use my PC.

Seems useless to me.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, not all of us have a C64 to play with.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, well when I'm too lazy to set my C64 up I use emulators and I've never had any problems with a game on them. They seemed pretty complete and the accelerated loading option is incredibly nice compared to waiting a few years for a game to load from tape.

Re:Huh?

[Chexsum]

those things were built to last

$10 says you plug it in and the power is dead. :P

They werent built to last - I went through over 10 C=64s and about as many power adapters! Then theres the disk drives and tape deck heads.

You almost have a good point because I see C=64s *sometimes even early Amigas* with hundreds of games for ~$50 in the paper sometimes. Although a C-1 sounds like more than just a C=64 (20MHz jiffy *cute term - couldnt resist - might be emulated 1MHz only*, IDE & PS2).

The first thing that comes to my mind

[slaker]

OK. I'm not a Commodore guy. My first computer was an XT.

But still, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use something a bit more modern to emulate that Commodore rather than use x amount of energy to run a 20MHz CPU and all the disk drives etc that normally attend a PC?

Other than sheer geek factor, what's the point of owning one of these?

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[t0qer]

But still, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use something a bit more modern to emulate that Commodore

Sure you can emulate it, but you miss so much by simple emulation. The most hailed feature of the C64 was the sid chip (it's still used by some techo artists to make effects)

It all comes down to timing, when you emulate you are forced to the timing of the host system. Emulated sound NEVER sounds as good as the real thing.

I was on the other side of the fence back in the 8-bit days(atari user), we used to call commodore users "Commode Door" users, but I can still relate to them when it comes to sound reproduction. You just cannot get that vintage computer sound without the real thing.

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[Anonymous Coward]

My first computers were 8-bit Commodores, and I still can't imagine liking a PC (though I'm sure that's in part a Windows 95 trauma). It was great to see some puny breadbox rock at a time PCs couldn't offer anything more exciting than Word 3.0 (at least when you're 12 or so and not particularly interested in office applications.) It was great to "feel" that this (your!) computer is, right now, producing the music it's playing rather than playing back CD audio/MP3s/samples/General MIDI-tinklings. It was great to see new exciting hacks come out all the time and, for a long time, to not have to worry about upgrading your CPU/mainboard/video adapter/monitor. Weird hardware hacks in magazines. Memory maps you'd eventually know your way around. No internet to overflow both your information processing capacities and your self-esteem (why try to do x if it's already been done?). Games and tools written by dedicated individuals, without a team of musicians and video and graphics artists. It was, at least sometimes, a whole lot of fun.

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[netsrek]

Sure you can emulate it, but you miss so much by simple emulation. The most hailed feature of the C64 was the sid chip (it's still used by some techo artists to make effects)

So go out and get yourself a SidStation.

There are some pretty damn good software emulators of the SID chip sound around these days. They've gotten much better.

I still don't get the point of running something like this in this form factor.

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[t0qer]

Ya but what does that do for all the C64 music applications that were out there?

I know musicians that STILL use an atari ST for their midi work, simply because they've never been able to find anything better. (don't even mention cakewalk)

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[Bender_]

But still, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use something a bit more modern to emulate that Commodore rather than use x amount of energy to run a 20MHz CPU and all the disk drives etc that normally attend a PC?

It is, because we can!

.. and now stop asking.

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[Anonymous Coward]

What about cakewalk?

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[Anonymous Coward]

He said "Vintage" computer sound...

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[delong]

You just cannot get that vintage computer sound without the real thing.

Oh yeah, it was so grand.

Vintage=crap

Derek "former C64 owner"

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[fitten]

I had an Atari 1040ST! (The first computer to cost less than $1/Kbyte, btw - it was $999). I loved it. I only switched to the dark side (x86) when I was finally forced to in college because of some of the software we were required to use (PSPICE) and got tired of keeping my next door neighbor up until 3am using his machine for them.

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[Anonymous Coward]

While it's been covered to death, the Catweasel Mk3 is a bit more affordable, and gives you the added multiformat floppy controller and retrogaming ports. Depends if you want something vaguely standalone or a solution for your 'big box,' I guess. Google around if you want a pic of the card; it was Slashdotted recently enough.

One advantage of the CommodoreOne is that most of the system is implemented in FPGA- meaning it should be much more of a hacker toy than just a hardware C64 emulator++. The power draw is probably fairly reduced from the original '64, and tons of consumer electronics (and computing platforms) are much less efficient, anyway.

Put your hand over a DirecTV receiver sometime. Toasty!

Re:The first thing that comes to my mind

[LOADSTAR Dave]

Vintage=crap

You are obviously suffering from the commercial consumer ailment "olditis". Sorry to hear it. I pray for your recovery, though the ailment is somewhere between chronic and terminal.

I = VINTAGE
I CRAP
ergo
VINTAGE CRAP

Emulation

[ergo98]

Just as I wouldn't go out and buy a classic arcade console, but rather would run MAME, why would someone want this when the 6502 can be completely emulated very well? Emulation isn't an option when extreme performance is required, but I'd wager that a modern Ghz+ would emulate a 6502 and subsystems at a speed greatly outpacing a actual 20Mhz 6502.

Re:Emulation

[Anonymous Coward]

Well ya know, when I think of my C64 and it's pokey old 6502 processor extreme performance isn't the first thing that comes to mind...

Re:Emulation

[Anonymous Coward]

especially when the emulators are FREE for the most part.

The only game I want to play is Wizardry. No emulator will run that correctly though.

Re:Emulation

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

I will tell you why I own some older arcade classic coin-ops. Mame is great and all, but when you have an original you have and original. Something that has more to it than just the gaming value.

I can tell you from the way people go "holly shit do those work!" when they walk into my shop and see original Galaga, Centipede, and Sinistar arcade games running . Those games have personal attachment to them. They bring back a time in my generations history that they loved.

Everyone always plays them all the time. There is nothing like hearing "I HUNGER! RUN COWARD!" and the simple sounds from Galaga and people having a good time at those machines. The analog feel of the controls and the battle for the high scores with everyone that plays the games.

It is just something about the classics that make you love them, be it your time with them, or the memories that you have. Sometimes you just can't make something old better with new stuff, it peaked and you can't recreate what the old games have with new equipment.

Just my views....

Re:Emulation

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Not true, there is an apple emulator for x86 that runs Wizardy "Proving grounds of the mad overload" just fine.

I realized that I could still remember how to get to the monster allocation center by memory. That just scares me! I don't remember the name of it, but I did play it for a good week about 2 years ago on a p2 400 x86. Good luck.

Re:Emulation

[ergo98]

I will tell you why I own some older arcade classic coin-ops. Mame is great and all, but when you have an original you have and original. Something that has more to it than just the gaming value.

I can see the merit in this for nostalgic purposes, and indeed I have browsed the auctions for a big stand up arcade. I guess my question should have been something more like "Why would someone buy hardware to emulate the original games when they can do virtual emulation?". In this case there isn't even the nostalgic factor as the thing is a oddball plug-in card rather than a real C64.

Re:Emulation

[Mitchell Mebane]

I'd wager that a modern Ghz+ would emulate a 6502 and subsystems at a speed greatly outpacing a actual 20Mhz 6502.

Maybe, maybe not. See here for details.

Re:Emulation

[ergo98]

I'm curious about his technique and where the big holdup is. This page emulated an Atari 130XE, a very similar beast to the C64, and in their admittingly simplistic benchmark achieved 4x the speed running the emulator on a 486/66 (9x the speed on a Pentium 90). Put in the numerous architectural enhancement in today's processors, and I find it hard to believe that an 800Mhz processor cannot emulate a C64 at a 1:1 speed.

Re:Emulation

[Mitchell Mebane]

They don't claim to have perfect synchro.

Re:Emulation

[gmhowell]

You should also be looking at your local pennysaver publication, the local want ads, and usenet groups. I've found a few machines via Usenet. You'll want to set up some filters to get down to games you want, and it might take some time, but it's where the deals are to be had.

Re:Emulation

[fitten]

The Atari XE series was similar to the C64 in that they used one of the family of 6502 processors (not even the same one... C64 uses 6510). The graphics of each were a bit different, player/missle vs. sprites. Sound was a bit different too.

When you emulate, you have to emulate the entire machine, not just the CPU - that means any 'unexpected features' of hardware (look up the 65(C)02 sometime and check out all the 'special' behavior of even different revisions of the CPU for different instructions). Some folks wrote programs to take advantage of the logic holes (places that were don't-cares in the logic of the CPU). You also have to do this for all the other chips and stuff. It's pretty fun to do. But... in the posting mentioned in another post in this thread, they expected it would take an 866MHz P3 to emulate a C64 "perfectly" at the original 1MHz speeds.

One thing that was *really* cool about the XE machines was their memory management unit. IIRC, there was a 16K bank in the 'middle' of the 64K address space that was mapped by a single register in the MMU to memory in a 1M address space (the 130XE had 128K, you could expand it up to 1M and actually use it!). You could store routines/data in various banks of 16K throughout the memory that you had and swap them into the lower 64K with a single instruction.

Re:Emulation

[Whelkman]

Games like Sinistar have to be bought. Many arcade games have control schemes which simply cannot be emulated.

RUN COWARD

Re:Emulation

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd more than likely lose that wager. An Athlon 700 can't keep 100% emulation rate up for a stock C64, so a PC would never manage it for a CommodoreOne.

You're also missing the fact that it has reprogrammable hardware.

Re:Emulation

[Anonymous Coward]

ApplePC emulates a 65C02 at about 11 MHz on a 486/133.

I would assume a GHz CPU would do easily 100 MHz.

Try this - type:
10 A=A+1:GOTO 10
RUN
run for 5 seconds and Ctrl-C.

Then type:
?A/1600

The value is *approximately* the 65C02 speed in MHz, I think ;)

Re:Emulation

[Anonymous Coward]

866 MHz? Get real. ;) I bet I could at least emulate an Apple //e (a bit simpler than a C64, but still, we're talking 6502-class CPU - 65SC02 in my //e) *perfectly* (video tricks and everything) at more than full speed on a 486/133.

I'm pretty close. And this is with a CPU core written in C (although the video code is written partially with nasm).

I don't see why a C64 emulator can't run at-or-near full speed on a high-end 486, if an Apple one can.

No Thanks

[Amsterdam Vallon]

A classic's a classic, and there's no denying that.

New millenium this, new millenium that, but to me and many like myself, there'll only ever be one Commodore.

*nix.org

In other news.

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Reports are coming in that atari is making a Minitower 2600 and to our surprise here at the shop someone told us they have a Vic20 running at 3mhz with 4k of ram in a shuttle case.

Blood amazing! Just when I broke my last paper weight I get a new bigger one. Could someone make me a Beta recorder in a xbox case please?!

Re:In other news.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like shuttle cases - they tend to explode.

Aside from the 'cool' factor. -- why?

[nurb432]

Sure its cool, and would be fun to mess with, but if its more then a box of parts in cost.. why??

I can build a C64 for almost nothing, even if i didnt have 3 in the garage somewhere...

Hell you can do this on a single programmable chip these days.. now THATS really cool.

Does this mean we will see a 'modernized' atari 8bit as well, or an ST...

Re:Aside from the 'cool' factor. -- why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell you can do this on a single programmable chip these days.. now THATS really cool

What's cooler is that the c-one has two programmable chips(FPGA). I think one is for the microcode and another for the MonsterSID chip. If your up for it reprogram the FPGAs to be a Apple IIgs, atari... or whatever.

Re:Aside from the 'cool' factor. -- why?

[Ziviyr]

I don't think a Xilinx can do a SID without doing things very differently.

Re:Aside from the 'cool' factor. -- why?

[rabidcow]

Sure its cool, and would be fun to mess with, but if its more then a box of parts in cost.. why??

What it is:

The Commodore One computer is a 2002 enhanced adaptation of the Commodore 64 -the most sold of any computer model (Guiness book of World Records) While retaining almost all of the original's capabilities the Commodore One adds modern features, interfacing and capabilities and fills a sorely needed gap in the hobbyist computer market.

That's their answer to your question.

I can build a C64 for almost nothing, even if i didnt have 3 in the garage somewhere...

This is not an exact replica of the C64 (btw, how would you duplicate the custom logic chips without an original?) This has a 20MHz processor, will take 32MB of ram, has a built-in CompactFlash slot, will handle video up to 1280x1024, and actually has a PCI bus.

Re:Aside from the 'cool' factor. -- why?

[Anonymous Coward]

You could start with EmuTOS as the basis for the ROM BIOS and GEM/TOS, if you wanted to...I'd kill to see a 68060 Jackintosh.;)

Let the hobbying begin?

[blair1q]

The "hobby" is now about 3GHz processors, lights and liquid cooling, recording your own DVDs, and multi-gigabit wireless connectivity.

I think I smell a horse on the wrong end of your cart.

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[Rand Race]

And the "hobby" in the automotive industry right now is nitrous, lights, video players, ugly paint and absurd aluminum wings. Do you think that means no one futzes around with old Stutz Bearcats any more?

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[blair1q]

Nobody is making new ones and selling them to hobbyists.

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[Dun Malg]

Au contraire, mon frere! One can buy replica car kits for pretty much any type of car, past or present, including the Stutz Bearcat. Here's a collection of photos from a kit car show last year. Scroll down and read the caption beside the picture just under the "Vintage Spyders" one.

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and all those fucking riceboys are sneered at by real hotrodders, (read: V8), for the poseurs that they are.

Anybody who buys a $3K Civic, then spends $10K tarting it up, (mostly on the stereo), DESERVES to have their doors blown off by a stock 6 cylinder Mustang!

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[blair1q]

It's a volkswagen with plastic body panels. It looks a little like a Stutz if you squint and laugh, but otherwise, what sort of "hobby" is that supposed to be?

Re:Let the hobbying begin?

[Duckie01]

The "hobby" is now about 3GHz processors, lights and liquid cooling, recording your own DVDs, and multi-gigabit wireless connectivity.

That depends on the hobbyist.

Chicks Dig C64..

[gorjusborg]

Look at the pictures section !!

Proof positive that hot chix love C64... (and guys with mohawks and stuff)

Re:Chicks Dig C64..

[JonWan]

Dude, it was designed and built by a chick.
Her name is Jeri Ellsworth.

Re:Chicks Dig C64..

[Anonymous Coward]

Surf's up, DUDE.

Re:Chicks Dig C64..

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.geocities.com/dickestel/vintage2002.htm l

you think she's into anal?

Lesser power

[Anonymous Coward]

The specs may not sound powerful but there is advantage of lesser power consumption. Might be a useful feature in some sort of niche application. (Application in the broader sense of the word.)

Economics

[GeorgeK]

This product seems to ignore economics. In particular, it would be less expensive to buy a standard PC and then emulate the Commodore 64 (and also be able to run lots of other standard software).

Perhaps their team could have used one more person with a business degree, and one less engineer, to figure this out....

.

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone already has a standard PC or three, and no one will want a Commodore One for the whizbang it won't provide. Emulation is cool for a round of Paradroid etc., but the point here is probably not to simply run old software on "real" hardware. After all, C64s are cheap (and durable, by comparison. I got a few for free, one of which must be 20 years old or so.) There's something to be said for the appeal of a relatively unconfusing and hackable architecture. I doubt anyone expects to get rich building these... (they don't, do they? Please?)

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

You're ignoring economics. The reality of economics states that not everyone is going to have the saavy to go and collect the parts. The parents of some kids who likes tinkering will happily buy him a kit like this.

Re:Economics

[epyT-R]

bah.. The C1 isn't about economics at all. This looks like a small scale effort done by hobbyists. They can't hope to make much money (if any) on it. If you were a fan of the hardware, you were a fan of the hardware regardless as to whether its 'economical' or not. It really is intended for 20 something geeks who had one of the originals during the 1980s and would like some real hardware to play with. Think about it, would you rather fly a real F22 or just fly a simulator?

Thats the problem with business types. They are usually too rigid and closeminded to even CONSIDER an idea in any other way than dollar signs. If this project were run by business types, you wouldn't be seeing it at ALL. Think about it..

Re:Economics

[drinkypoo]

The difference is, the F22 is today a screaming, top-technology fighter jet, where today the C64 is too big to be a doorstop, and too light to be a boat anchor.

This is silly. It's nostalgia for nostalgia's sake. Users would be far better off with a similar machine based on a 68k chip (coldfire if you want to go new; 68030 or '040 if you want to be old school about it) which would be cheaper and faster, have a full MMU, have a 32 bit flat address space, et cetera.

Now, I'm not going to tell anyone not to be silly, but it seems like an inane waste of money. It would be better IMO to provide a PCI card with sockets for SIDs and your FPGA, and hardware to emulate the C64 CIA more closely, for around a $100 price point. Then you could just slap it into your PC and go, using your PC's hardware to do all the video and whatnot, using your PC's memory, using your PC's processor -- rather than requiring users to build a whole new system. In fact, it seems entirely likely that if you were to buy all the supporting parts new, even if you got fairly cheap hardware it would still cost more to buy peripherals, monitor etc than to buy the system. That seems silly to me.

If you yearn for the days when computers sucked that much ass, use a real C64. This is just wanking. If you're going to have something modern, you might as well have something which is ACTUALLY modern, something more like 2GHz than 20MHz.

And of course, if you are using this to get real work done, you're a nobk. Zilog sells development boards with a CPU in this class for fifty bucks. It never ceases to amaze me that the crappier a computer commodore made, the more of a following it had. People loved the Amiga to death, but I actually think there are more C64 addicts than Amigans these days, and I'll never understand that. If you couldn't emulate the C64, it would make more sense.

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a hobbyist project, for other hobbyists. It is not a product for "end-users".

Re:Economics

[delong]

I've discovered a frightening trend towards pop culture obsessive compulsiveness. Some of the guys I work with that are in their early 20s are, well, frightening. They bring toys to work. They bitch about how sucky the new Transformers episodes are compared to the (apparently masterpiece) originals. They obsess over comic books. They play with Legos. They put Autobot and Decepticon stickers on their cars. For crying out loud man, I'm 28 years old - I grew up with that stuff. IT WASN'T THAT GREAT! Jesus. They act like babies.

It's Nostalgia as a lifestyle choice. Yeah, I owned an original C64, it has neatness value. I wouldn't mind playing with it - FOR FIVE MINUTES. You couldn't do crap with the damn things when they were new, you can do even less, comparatively, now that they're old. Give it up. Go to a museum.

Rant over. Carry on. :)

Derek

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

Nostalgia for me means Super nintnedo lol. I was only 7 when Super Nintendo Came Out. Today I am 18 and am currently in College as a Sophomore. I may be one of the youngest people on this site. My brother had the Commodore 64 but he's 9 years older then me too so I don't really remember it that much or Atari 2600. After FF7 the last good final fantasy I went back and played Final Fantasy 5 and Tales of Phantasia Translation through emulation on zsnes. Since beating these I've gone onto better systems but Super Nintendo lives in my heart ;). These days with exception of Go (Japanese Board Game it's on yahoo if you wanna check out but be warned players there are scary) I play Playstation 2, Psx, Gba, and even Dreamcast a little still although out-of-date the games were fun ;) and DDR at the arcade although I haven't been in awhile maybe they have a DDREX Machine now. When I was 9 and in 5th Grade I got into anime a little and saw Ronin Warriors and liked the show some and kept watching. Later on
when I was 15 i revived my interest in Anime with Dragonball Z which today I look down on as not a very good anime but back then I enjoyed it. Since then I've gotten into more anime and don't have to watch the edited out dubbed crap anymore. My Favorite Series last year was Haibane Renmei and My Favorite Series that I'm watching at moment is Junni Kokki.

well L8R i gotta go to sleep

Re:Economics

[Carmody]

You couldn't do crap with the damn things when they were new

What an ignorant statement.
I know two people who ran businesses using the C-64. It did light accounting, printed out checks, etc.

I wrote a program for my brother's business - it sent out telexes (remember them?) in four different languages.

The Paperclip word processor, while not as feature-filled as Microsoft Word, certainly did its job, and had all the features (except for spellcheck) that a person needed to write papers for college, and letters to friends.

The games were fun - they didn't look as good as the games do now, but four friends could get together with their favorite beverages and have a great time playing M*U*L*E and Raid on Bungling Bay.

Computers are obviously better now, but if you "couldn't do crap" on a Commodore 64, you must not have had access to software, and were probably not the most creative of programmers.

Re:Economics

[JoeCommodore]

You fail to see the full market here, software emulations can be pretty lame, though they get the gist of the machine down quite well, there are always some nasty comprimises, such as inability to access some port (like serial to run modems, etc.). Not everyone interested in the C-One are game players (and even if they are they probably may want to use a 64 joystick over some PC gamepad), some people still do serious work on the 8-bits and would like to have a machine with a 65xx compatible processor as well as IDE, PS/2 ports, gobs of RAM etc. You can think of it like a 'BASIC stamp extreme' if that makes more sense to you...

It all starts with the 64 emulation but if you read the specs, it keeps going and c64 is just one configuration possible.

For me the Commodore fan it's the 64 with all the stuff I wish I had that I don't know how to connect to the 64. Sure there are hard disks and other interfaces out there to expand the 64, but these are built-in and not only that 20x the speed (very fast indeed), plus extended video and sound features... Old school video games have a new platform to be re-invented on.... :-)

Re:Economics

[vbweenie]

Five years ago I was at a friend's house and his friend brought over an ancient C64 and a box full of tapes, and we plugged everything into everything else and tried to load up "Monty on the Run" (which has some of the best music of any game ever) and it worked and this was very cool and impressive and made us think for a moment about the simple pleasures (and general unbearable tedium, as we waited for the thing to load) of our mis-spent youth. We then unplugged everything and put it back into the box and got on with our lives. If, in five years time, someone comes over to my house with a still-working C64 and we can do the same thing all over again, that will be great. Meanwhile, I can't honestly say that I give that much of a monkey's.

Re:Economics

[Grab]

OTOH, if you already have an F22, why would you want to bolt shit onto it so that it performs like the Wright Flyer?

Grab.

Re:Economics

[epyT-R]

Again, this isn't about rationality.. Perhaps the F22 was a bad example. Why do people tinker with antique cars when a modern japanese model surpasses them in every way with ease? Why? Because of nostalgia. The memories brought back by the car's era are more important to them than the actual car itself. This project is an ambitious attempt to bring some of that to like minded computer geeks. By definition, the choice to buy one of these isn't rational.
I'm sure in a few years we'll be seeing people who collect x86 hardware even though it could be emulated easily on current systems.

I'm not attacking nor defending the hardware, just their right to do so. In all likelihood, they'll sell 2500 units and then flop. Maybe not, who knows. However, personally, if I just wanted the thing for the sound chips, I'd do what you said and buy one of those PCI cards with 3 or 4 SID chips on them. I just think $100 is too much for a 15 year+ outdated (but quite unique sounding) sound technology :). Maybe if the price goes down...

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

I am straight out of the 80s, "dude! totally!" and I prefer Transformers Armada (an animé, BTW) over the original. ;)

-uso.

Now all I need to do

[Eezy Bordone]

Is find my ASCII PRON!

Re:Now all I need to do

[Chexsum]

You could go for the interactive Stroker game. :P

Why so big?

[Doctor Memory]

You could build one of these with a couple ASICs and stick it in an enclosure the size of an external drive case. Hell, you could probably mount it directly to a floppy drive and stick it in a standard slot.

Cross-development is like a ship in a bottle

[yerricde]

Think of it as building a ship in a bottle. One could build the ship outside the bottle, but where the fun it that?

Actually, ships in bottles are built mostly outside the bottle with jointed masts. Then the ship is stuffed in the bottle, and the masts are raised.

Likewise, modern programs for underpowered systems (Palm, GBA, retro consoles) are developed on PCs using cross-compilers and emulators and then moved to the target system for testing.

Re:Cross-development is like a ship in a bottle

[fuzzyscience]

You sure it's a SHIP in that bottle?? :D

Dude - Life....Life - Dude

[FosterKanig]

Dude -> Life... Life -> Dude

Re:Dude - Life....Life - Dude

[Anonymous Coward]

and then ?

About the C-one

[gorjusborg]

FROM WEBSITE
What it is:

The Commodore One computer is a 2002 enhanced adaptation of the Commodore 64 -the most sold of any computer model (Guiness book of World Records)
While retaining almost all of the original's capabilities the Commodore One adds modern features, interfacing and capabilities and fills a sorely needed gap in the hobbyist computer market.

The estimated price will be only $200 USD.

(user will need to supply an ATX style case, ATX power supply, drive(s), PS/2 keyboard, mouse and SVGA capable monitor.)

Not good :(

[Some Bitch]

This is a trend that MUST be stopped! You don't see the consequences, I DO! One day Windows 3.0 will be retro enough to be 'cool' and some bastard will resurrect it!

Stop it now before it's too late :(

Re:Not good :(

[MonTemplar]

Well, if you get a copy of WindowBlinds, you can make your Windows 9x/2000/XP system look like Windows 3.1 ! :)

Re:Not good :(

[Some Bitch]

Thank you for that snippet, I feel nauseous now :(

Wonder if there's anyone out there sick enough to make KDE look like Win 3.x...

Re:Not good :(

[tom420.com]

What! Windows 3.x is outdated?? :P

Re:Not good :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, don't think anyone ever loved Windows (any version, even the fairly stable and usable ones like 2K/XP). C64s, Amigas, Spectrums and the like, however,... *swoon*

Re:Not good :(

[SN74S181]

You don't have to do that. You can run Progman.exe as your shell instead of explorer. It's still built in and available on new Windows systems. I hadn't tried it until just now on Windows 2000 but I went to the start menu, picked 'run' and typed in 'progman' and sure enough, good(?) old program manager popped up. I don't have any groups or icons in groups, but that would be trivial to change as it always was in the old days.

Re:Not good :(

[delong]

In 95 and 98 you could replace Explorer with Progman, which was still included in the install. I believe it's still included in 2000 as well.

We used to have lots of fun changing some noobs workstation desktop shell to Progman and watching their complete and utter confusion after they got back from the john. Hilarious. Fun for the whole family.

Derek

Re:Not good :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Try playing with Windows 3.1 on a modern computer. 2.4 Ghz is hella fast (I mean FAST!) in Win 3.1. I'm talking about just a couple seconds to boot the system (maybe less if you take out the bios checks). Applications just plain scream (try an old version of MS Office).

I remember when Windows 95 came out and people were so impressed with this new "faster, better" system. I kept telling them it was slower than 3.1 and I continued to run 3.1 until forced to change (due mostly to DirectX games).

Even though those old applications scream, I still considered them slow and bloated. Imagine how good real software could be.

Re:Not good :(

[Anonymous Coward]

This is almost the point though, isn't it. No one
thinks back as to how much fun they had with win3.1
I don't know many people who had a c64 who don't
tell you how cool they were when you bring it up.
"Destroy him my robots!", that $hit rocked.

Re:Not good :(

[bjb]

Well DO consider that Windows 3.1 was only 7MB total in size when installed.. I think my P3-1000 and UltraDMA hard drive can blink faster than the time it takes to load that.

$200 USD?

[Treeluvinhippy]

WTF, wouldn't this be a better deal?

Re:$200 USD?

[jbevren]

$30 for the c64
$150 for the supercpu (20mhz)
$75 for the memory module for the supercpu
$30 for the 16meg FPM simm for the memory module
$100 for the ide64 adaptor
$150 for the ramlink
$50 for the ramlink ram expansion board
$30 for simms to fill the ramlink (16 more megs)

Unavailable on the c64: ehnanced graphics beyond 16 colors, expanded sound output.

In the long run, its far cheaper to get this than it is to get all the above components to build a comparable system. AND, it doesn't take a double-wide server case to fit it all in one enclosure (google for C128 tower if you're brave).

Greets to #c-64 ;)
-jbev

Re:$200 USD?

[RichardX]

$30 for the c64
$150 for the supercpu (20mhz)
$75 for the memory module for the supercpu
$30 for the 16meg FPM simm for the memory module
$100 for the ide64 adaptor
$150 for the ramlink
$50 for the ramlink ram expansion board
$30 for simms to fill the ramlink (16 more megs)


Having masses of hot chicks crawling over each other to rip your clothes off and make sweet luuurve to you all night long because you are a techno-geek-GOD.... Priceless ... Whaaaaat?.. why are you looking at me like that? :P

The only important question is....

[Jacek Poplawski]

...can I run Linux on it?

Re:The only important question is....

[BabyDave]

Come on, this is Slashdot - the important question is "Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of those?"

Honestly. Can't get the staff these days ...

Re:The only important question is....

[zzendpad]

no, but you can run lunix on it.

Re:The only important question is....

[JonWan]

Not Linux, but when the ELKS project started there was some discussion on a 6502 version. The main problem is the 6502 isn't very 'C' friendly. There is a *nix like OS called ACE and one called Lunix both are pretty cool to use.

Re:The only important question is....

[DoctorPepper]

...can I run Linux on it?

Nah, but I hear there's a port of NetBSD on the way...

Re:The only important question is....

[tom420.com]

What for? What need is here to run Linux on C64?? C64 came with it's own (very basic) integrated OS. What fun is it to have a newer version of the machine if you run a different OS on it? Remember: LOAD *,8,1 (or something like that :)

Re:The only important question is....

[MrHanky]

And people think Linux is unpopular because it's too hard. The C64 was popular, and it grew more hair on your chest than in your palms with obscure commands like `LOAD"$",8` just to get what we *nixers get with a simple `ls`. To get it to do anything usefull, you had to learn asm programming (which was simple, I've heard, but I only did useless stuff). I don't remember what you had to do to delete a file, but I remember it was so hard you normally just formatted the disk instead. It's no mystery the machine was mostly used for games.

Re:The only important question is....

[Citizen of Earth]

...does it play Oggs?

Re:The only important question is....

[Compton Q. Groundhog]

The Wings operating system for SuperCPU-powered C64s is supposedly going to be ported to it. It's not exactly a *NIX operating system, but it's pretty damn close. http://www.king.igs.net/~billnacu/wings/

Re:The only important question is....

[Chexsum]

I don't remember what you had to do to delete a file, but I remember it was so hard you normally just formatted the disk instead.

You could extend basic to save the hassle of messing with device numbers *DLOAD* and deletion *SCRATCH* etc so it felt like you were using a *cough*modern*cough* computer. Also, MC was more fun - handle your own bytes. =)

Re:The only important question is....

[Beetjebrak]

You forgot the quote marks.. it's:

LOAD "*",8,1

to actually load the first file from disk drive 1. After that you have to

RUN

it to actually have it start. Man that stumped me when I first got my C64 back when I was 5!

Re:The only important question is....

[CrazyDuke]

Does it emulate this error that my c64 does?

10 $B=9*9
20 PRINT "9 times 9 is ",$B,". :D"

9 times 9 is 80.99999. :D

(I think I got the synatx right; its been a while.)

Re:The only important question is....

[CrazyDuke]

Looking at your sig, if I am remembering the addresses correctly, you are missing one. I don't remember the exact order, but you need to turn the text, the background, and the border (you know, the black area around your desktop no one uses anymore?) to 0 to set them all to black. I used to know the values by heart back in the day...

Re:The only important question is....

[TWR]

Nope. Wrong syntax. String variables required $ AFTER the variable name (which could only be one or two characters; any more characters were ignored. This made BANANA and BALL the same variable.). Integer variables had a % after them. Floating point variables were unqualified.

Also, a comma in a PRINT statement inserted a tab. A semicolon inserted nothing.

The correct syntax should be:

10 B = 9 * 9

20 PRINT "9 times 9 is ";B;". :D"

The math error did happen, though.

Yes, I did this from memory. You never forget your first programming language...

-jon

Re:The only important question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these?

Re:The only important question is....

[viktor]

No, no, no.

This is Slashdot. The important question is "how will this affect my right to copy what i bloody well please".

And the important observation is "if the VHDL code isn't open source we must immediately boycott this unfree threat to our society!"

Re:The only important question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

The text colour is changed with the number keys, modified by CTRL or the C= key. Bet black is CTRL-1 or something. Could bend slightly to the left to check on one of my 64's, 20's or my 128, but cannot be bothered to.

Re:The only important question is....

[Beetjebrak]

It's 646 for the cursor..

POKE 646,0

53281 is the screen center, 53280 the border and 646 the cursor. Time to change my sig. ;-)

Re:The only important question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't be impossible. There's a *x clone for the 64 - no reason some form of *x can't be ported to it. The Apple IIgs had a 2.8 MHz 65816 and ran the GNO Multitasking Environment (a *x clone).

-uso.

Re:The only important question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

Most programs:
LOAD "*",8
RUN
(Lo"*",8 works too.)

Some machine code programs need
LOAD "*",8,1
but you don't usually need to RUN them.

-uso.

"I don't want one, therefore it's a bad idea."

[sczimme]

This sort of comment pops up all the time on /. and elsewhere. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean that someone else must be crazy to want it. Not everyone thinks like you do (or I do, or anyone else does).

If you don't want one, or think it's a dumb idea, then don't buy one. Problem solved.

This is not meant to be a troll or flamebait, though it will probably be modded as such.

Re:"I don't want one, therefore it's a bad idea."

[sheddd]

I'd love one... for $10.

Facts are you could emulate the thing (and instead of plugging in roms download them) and still have a PC for much less than what they're selling the thing for.

Comments aside, they may make money; I know ~5 people who spent >=$1000 on freaking beanie babies.

Re:"I don't want one, therefore it's a bad idea."

[ball-lightning]

Think of it as buying a copy of a Linux distribution, you don't have to do it, but your helping support the community, etc.

Re:"I don't want one, therefore it's a bad idea."

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point is you *can't* emulate one.

Re:"I don't want one, therefore it's a bad idea."

[Black Rabbit]

The idea here wasn't to rebuild the 64, but to totally redesign and update the technology. Did you even look at the specs?

Linux on it?

[Esion Modnar]

How long before somebody does this? Any bets?

Does it run LUnix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run LUnix - the free UNIX clone for the original C64?

LNG is an operationg system primarly for the good old Commodore64 home-computer. There also is a native version for the successor Commodore128. Ports to other 6502/6510 driven 8Bit Computers are possible but not yet started. LUnix started in 1993 and reached the internet in 1994. In 1997 LUnix0.1 was rewritten from scratch, the result is LNG.

Features of LUnix:
* Preemptive multitasking (up to 32 tasks, 7 priorities)
* Dynamic memory management (in chunks of 256 or 32 bytes)
* Runtime code relocation
* IPC (inter process communication) through pipes
* IPC through signals
* (minimal) REU support
* SCPU compatible
* Hardware stack swapping (C128 only)
* 256K RAM C128 compatible
* >30 standard applications available
* Support for standard RS232 userport interface
* Support for swiftlink RS232 interface
* Virtual consoles
* Hardware accelerated 80 columns console on C128 in C64 mode
* Native C128 version available
* (simple) command shell (with history function)
* Support for CBM (IEC bus) devices (e.g. 1541)
* Open source, comes with all needed (cross-) development tools
* Widely configurable for your needs
* LNG can be terminal and terminal server (RS232)
* Support for SLIP packet encapsulation over serial links
* Support for PPP (packet encapsulation) over serial links
* Loop back packet driver for off-line client-server trials
* TCP/IP stack (and clients for telnet, ftp and pop3
* A simple web server (experimental)
* Support for the DFC77 receiver (radio-transmitted time signal in europe/germany)
* Support for the Smart Watch Chip (another real time clock)
* Support for IDE64 RTC
* Support for IEC bus via 64net/2
* Support for o65 object format (experimental)
* Online help system
* ...

Re:Does it run LUnix?

[kEnder242]

I herd about his before!

Jeff K.'s "User Friendly Cartoon About Lunix"

Re:Does it run LUnix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes, and it's a great box for UNIX, having the CTRL key in the "right" place and all!

Re:Does it run LUnix?

[Wildstar128]

Actually its Little Unix not Lunix because Lunix is a Linux based "hacker" OS for an Intel. It should be refered to as Little Unix or LNG.

C= 64 is dying!

[Anonymous Coward]

C= 64 is dying!

err... no wait...

what about sinclair.....

[Anonymous Coward]

any plans to bring the old sinclair ZX spectrum alive? hmmmmm, I can only imagine what a Z80 based 64kb machine would look like in an ATX case.... they could even embed 2 tape players / recorders..... awesome....

Re:what about sinclair.....

[MonTemplar]

Even better... recreate a BBC Micro, with Co-Processor module on the same motherboard! The original dual-processor PC! (I should know, I owned such a beast long ago, AND I have a hard drive too. Was pensioned of to some guy at Herriot-Watt University, to go and do weather monitoring or suchlike out in the Outer Hebrides)

The scary part is, you'd probably have plenty of buyers for it too... :)

Re:what about sinclair.....

[MagerValp]

The C1 is basically just two FPGAs and a CPU slot that boots from flash. Pick up a good book on VHDL and get to work :)

Re:what about sinclair.....

[Bert64]

Amstrad produced a personal email machine that was spectrum compatible a while back... it was basically a phone with a small lcd screen and a keyboard.. i`m sure theyre still for sale

Re:what about sinclair.....

[Yomlogs]

It's been done. Sort of.

Re:what about sinclair.....

[Anonymous Hack]

I know this comment is coming in very late and noone's likely to read it, but it's being done for the Amstrad CPC (close-ish to the Spectrum). Information here. Everyone knows the CPC was the REAL 8-bit demo machine :-) The freaks are still making CPC demos in Europe :-) Having lost my CPC years ago, i'd love one of these. Sure, you could emulate it, sure you could probably just put it on a PCI card, but it's cool.

Re:what about sinclair.....

[Anonymous Hack]

Aaand i just found this site which is creating a pseudo Spectrum :-) Not full emulation, but the same basic idea. Sounds interesting.

Re:what about sinclair.....

[plugger]

I'm sure there was a story in The Register recently, saying that Amstrad are pushing the emailer again, at a lower price.

I just looked, it's on their front page.

20MHz CPU and 50MHz system bus

[Anonymous Coward]

20MHz CPU and 50MHz system bus
I found that amusing

Also the hard-wired 32MB RAM is split 50/50 between system and video

Re:20MHz CPU and 50MHz system bus

[Wildstar128]

Dude, throw in a 50 Mhz eZ80i. Dude, throw in an FPGA chip with a RISC core and clock internal clock rate to 200-250 Mhz and an external clock bus at 50 Mhz and it isn't all to bad when you don't run 50 Billion lines of Bloated Bull$h**.

Re:The most important question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do I want to?

GEOS revival?

[fuzzyscience]

Anybody fancy coding a brand new version of the mighty Geos to run on this beast?

Re:GEOS revival?

[MagerValp]

Maurice Randall is working on the next version of GEOS, but the main target is C64s with SuperCPU accelerators (20 MHz 65816 cartridge). The C1 is similar enough that it should run unmodified, but it might not take advantage of the new graphics modes.

In other news...

[xenoweeno]

...the Vice emulator, which emulates the C= 64, C= 128 (both 40 and 80 column modes), VIC-20, Pet, and CBM-II, is still free.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

You left out the C=4. Currently emulated by Mike 'wanky catholic hamster' Dailly.

Re:Very True.

[Destroyed]

People are playing on our childhood memories. Possibly trying to intice us into buying their product - a c64 wannabe? What good is 20 Mhz when no C=64 progies require it? Upgraded SID? There is only one C=64 that I would consider. Oh yeah, apple sucks:).

What's wrong with the original ones?

[Anonymous Coward]

--Huh?

Re:What's wrong with the original ones?

[fuzzyscience]

Er...you want a list??

Dude!

[crisco]

posted 6:45am 2/1/03, 45 miniutes after it happened. Just scroll a little further down the page, you can't miss it, its the article with 1600 comments and counting.

mods: do NOT rate the parent up - this is RMS-WARE

[Anonymous Coward]

mods: do NOT rate the parent up - this is RMS-WARE!!!

Re:I had one of these back when

[Chexsum]

Dude, even the Amstrads were better than those POS!

w00t @ a new Commodore!

I was just playing with x64 (vice) for the first time for about a year today trying to get Xzap *C=16 original - didnt work for me but I had no c16 ROM and suck nowadays* to work!!! =)

I still have a cartridge *Toy Bizarre* so might get this C-1 one day *after I get a job - heh*.

well..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think its great. It makes us Amiga people look a little less silly trying to bring our machine back to life.. :)

I'd buy one just because it was designed by a cute girl nerd - and how many of those are there?

Re:well..

[greywire]

It also finaly can end the Apple IIgs vs commodore war. This thing would kill a IIgs! So there! AHAHAHA!

long live the original desktop!

[Narcocide]

damn i miss geos. i still wish it would run on my pc.

Re:long live the original desktop!

[NaturePhotog]

A demo version of GEOS, aka PC-GEOS, is available here. The original version was created by the same people who made Commodore GEOS over at (the soon to be defunct) Geoworks. My co-op project back in '89 was done on GeoProgrammer, as part of in-house testing for that environment.

A 65c816 eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, I wonder how much work it would take to get Super Nintendo carts running on this thing. It's more than fast enough.
BTW Windows 3.1 > all. :p

Truth in advertising

[Meowing]

excerpt from http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_about.htm: " . . .fills a sorely needed gap in the hobbyist computer market."

'Nuff said.

Re:Truth in advertising

[fuzzyscience]

Very sorely. Hurts me to even think about it.

Re:Truth in advertising

[uradu]

> fills a sorely needed gap

Well, the gap is sorely needed so that this product can then fill it. Unfortunately the gap, since it is sorely needed, doesn't exist.

Re:Damn!

[t0qer]

Damn! It's embarrassing moments like this I wish slash had a "delete comment" option. Please mod my comment down so I don't have to be embarassed when I read at a +1 threshhold.

Be careful what you wish for.

[fuzzyscience]

Hey, why not replace your shell with the emulator executable?? Download an emulator and the Geos disk images, run it full screen, and you're away... GeoWrite until the wee hours of the mornin. (But dont forget to GeoSpell afterwards ;)

Junis...

[Anonymous Coward]

...time to upgrade that vic-20 of yours.

Yeah but....

[bernardos70]

But does it play Quake 3 in smooth 300fps?

Re:Yeah but....

[fuzzyscience]

Nope. Bet it plays a mean game of Mayhem In Monsterland though.

Re:Yeah but....

[La Temperanza]

And yes, it does run Linux. Well, actually, I'm not sure. But I know it runs NetBSD. (This message posted using a dead squirrel in a cardboard box, running NetBSD 1.6.1)

Re:Yeah but....

[La Temperanza]

Gah. Wouldn't it be nice for us n00bs if Slashdot didn't format messages as HTML by default? Yes, I'm sure you can change it, but I'm talking about the default default here... :/

Re:Yeah but....

[Wildstar128]

Yeah, can your monitor display at 300 fps. Its a waste of clock cycles dude. You freakin' eyes can't see that waste. Why bother doing 300 fps dude. I think DVD is cool and that could be done and seen with crystal clarity at 30-60 fps, dude. The movie projector is only 30 fps. I think thats fast enough, man.

Re:Yeah but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably not, but I'd like to see if (like an Apple IIgs, which uses the same CPU) it can play Wolfenstein 3-D. :D

-uso.

XFree86

[Anonymous Coward]

I replaced MS Windows 3.11 (for Workgroups) with my RedHat-5 which is based on XFree86-3.

And wouldn't you know it, I am using a Hercules 128 which just so happens is a screaming-fast S3 SVGA 2D chipset with an integrated 4MB 3Dfx Voodoo 3D Graphics accelerator. I have accelerated openGL graphics in a 640x480 window at 16bpp. Yeah Baby!

It's not an emulator, it's not a breadbox

[MagerValp]

Yes, emulators (especially VICE) emulate the C64 almost perfectly. Yes, an old breadbox is only one tenth of the price on eBay. But the C1 is neither.

If you've ever worked with the real hardware you'll know that emulators can't replace the real deal. They're great development tools, and they're great for playing games when the boss isn't watching, but just as MAME is not a dedicated Galaga cabinet, VICE is not a real C= machine.

So why not just get a breadbox on eBay then? Well, I suggest that you do, it's an excellent machine. But then you'll also need to buy a 1541 disk drive to run games and demos. If you want to transfer software to or from the system you'll also need an X1541 cable or a 3.5" disk drive. And don't forget an S-video monitor, as you can't use a normal VGA monitor.

The C1 makes it possible to use common PC hardware like VGA monitors and IDE drives. It has 20 times the CPU power and 512 times the RAM, which is great for us that actually use the machine for things like coding (assemble and test in less than 1 second, sweet). Another important point is that when the original C= hardware starts to disintegrate, the C1 will still be there, as it's all just VHDL code.

This is not a machine for everyone, but there's certainly a market for it. There are still a lot of active C= users in the world, more than you'd think.

Re:It's not an emulator, it's not a breadbox

[ForceOfWill]

And don't forget an S-video monitor, as you can't use a normal VGA monitor.

The C1 makes it possible to use common PC hardware like VGA monitors...

The C64 can use a TV set as a display. I'd say that's common hardware already.

Re:It's not an emulator, it's not a breadbox

[plugger]

Well, a TV is ok for games, but I wouldn't fancy using one for serious work, or even webbrowsing.

Available?

[mindstrm]

The site says they are in test, and that the final boards haven't even come in yet... where is it available? It doesn't exist yet.

Re:Available?

[De Lemming]

"The C-One website has not been updated since a few weeks," see this comment.

But the KDH Shop site says "This product will be in stock on Monday 17 February, 2003."

Old software, etc

[COredneck]

Buried in my basement is my od C-64 including the 1541 Disk Drive. The power supply is fried though and haven't been able to use the machine. This would be pretty neat to get and play some old pirated games but my problem is getting the old floppies read if they are still good and get them transferred.

Re:Old software, etc

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you need the realtime clock or have peripherals that use the user port you should be able to power the C64 from any 9 volt power source - it uses some DC as well, but not many programs will be affected by not having it.

Re:Old software, etc

[Anonymous Coward]

It has such a strange proprietary connector for the AC adapter though. Bet you could get one of the original ones on eBay for a buck or three.

Commodore 1?

[x136]

Computer Memory (hard wired-on board) is expected to be 32 Megs or RAM

So, uh, shouldn't they call it the Commodore 32768?

Re:Commodore 1?

[JoeCommodore]

That was from the original prototype specs, now it has a limit of 1GB SDRAM.

Re:Commodore 1?

[Anonymous Coward]

Commodore 1048576.

ANYBODY GOT LINKS FOR REPAIR/MODDING PET/CPM

[ArcSecond]

I have an old Pet CPM that is pretty messed up. I want to find resources on turning it into a terminal... even if I have to totally gut it. Anyone got any leads?

Re:ANYBODY GOT LINKS FOR REPAIR/MODDING PET/CPM

[Compton Q. Groundhog]

Talk to Ray Carlsen at:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/

He's a Commodore repair guru.

Re:ANYBODY GOT LINKS FOR REPAIR/MODDING PET/CPM

[Anonymous Coward]

Commodore Service Manuals:
http://www.devili.iki.fi/Computers/Commo dore/

Parts, Schematics, Datasheets:
http://www.zimmers.net/commie/repair. html
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/
htt p://www.raymondcomputer.com/
http://highgate.comm .sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/my_d ocs.htm
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/chi pdata/ind ex.html
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/rep air/index .html
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/comp uters/i ndex.html

CBM/PET stuff:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/pet/index.html
http://members.tripod.com/~petlibrary/
http://w ww.6502.org/users/andre/petindex/
http://www.ryer son.ca/~sgray/
http://www.portcommodore.com/commo dore/pet/index.h tml

Good Luck!

Re:ANYBODY GOT LINKS FOR REPAIR/MODDING PET/CPM

[ArcSecond]

Sweet, thanks a ton.

Geek port?

[GordoSlasher]

I shudder to think what's supposed to be plugged into the "Geek Port" mentioned on the Specifications page.

Re:Geek port?

[Tet]

I shudder to think what's supposed to be plugged into the "Geek Port"

Pretty much anything, I'd guess. I'm assuming it to be inspired by the original geek port.

Re:Geek port?

[Wiesel]

This is a hobby-computer. One nice thing about the good old 8-bit days was that we could control any selfmade hardware, say, through the userport. The geek port of the C-One has some freely programmable lines, some clocks, and the possibility to map periphal chips into the computer's memory without having to be a PCI expert. Be honst, what computer gives this opportunity?

Jens Schönfeld

Re:Geek port?

[GordoSlasher]

I guess I should have used a smiley to tag my lame attempt at humor. If a printer port is used to plug in a printer, what might a geek do to a geek port? Aarrrgh. :-)

Re:Geek port?

[Anonymous Coward]

A beowulf cluster?

Re:Geek port?

[mvdw]

Be honst, what computer gives this opportunity?

Umm, pretty much any PC/104 embedded system. In fact, pretty much any embedded system you'd like to buy. I have on my desk at the moment an intel xscale in a SO-DIMM form factor, which I have sitting on its own custom board.

I've personally had my nostalgy for today...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ugh.. A nostalgy article. Just when I've installed:

- Ultimate Doom (Doom I + extra episode)
- Final Doom (Doom II + two extra episodes)
- Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders
- Hexen ... using jDoom/jHeretic/jHexen (OpenGL engines) with model addons for true 3D, and high res texture addon for 512x512 textures.

Now I've *definitely* had my share of nostalgy for today. :-)

But now I also have a platform to Doom For The New Millenium! Ooh, if I'll use it? Well, perhaps some day. :-)

Oh, I actually need that "Hexen: Deathknights of the Dark Citadel" expansion to make it truly perfect, but I never bothered to look for it that much.

Where do I find a good case for it?

[MagerValp]

The biggest problem, if you ask me, is that the C1 doesn't come with a nice case. A generic PC case just won't do it justice. I can't say I'm much for the neon lights and crap that PC modders seem to like these days either.

So, where do I find a good case for it?

Re:Where do I find a good case for it?

[Rellik66]

You don't need a window or anything, I would just reccomend a cool paint job with the c64 two tone bluescreen colors.

Re:Where do I find a good case for it?

[Charm]

where do I find a good case for it?

A question I have been asking myself all this year. I suggest something in plastic actually but not with that flashing light stuff. A bright round red led to signify power and a round green one for the disk drive.

A dark brown case for the purist. But I would prefer something more toy looking maybe blue or orange mixed with white or beige. Kinda like some sort of old nintendo/SGI mix. Definatly a rounded box, no brushed metal.

If you look around at say case mod galleries on the net you might find some ideas

Jeri

[Citizen of Earth]

Perhaps the most interesting factoid about the Commodore One is that its designer, Jeri Ellsworth, is hawt! :-)

Re:Jeri

[Anonymous Coward]

what geeks consider to be hot is sooo sooo pathetic... just because she's better than you could get doesn't make her hot. dizamn...

Re:Jeri

[Anonymous Coward]

yes it does. ;-)

shes sooo sooo sweet ;-)

Re:Jeri

[Anonymous Coward]

Word. As I'm fond of saying, dangle anything vaguely feminine in front of a bunch of geeks, and watch them slaver like starving hyenas.

Re:Jeri

[drinkypoo]

You mean, hot for a geek chick? I prefer Jeri Ryan, thank you. Maybe that's because I was weaned too early...

Re:Jeri

[peculiarmethod]

I am a geek, also hail in the musical world (New Orleans, Austin, Oklahoma City, San Diego), photographer, oil painter, and have owned a few companies.. each of these different worlds contain _loads_ of men who drool over any presented woman. It's not just geeks, folks.. get over yourselves.

pm

Re:Jeri

[acidrain69]

Yeah, in some freaky pedophile way. She looks 14. What is your problem?

It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Wiesel]

The C-One website has not been updated since a few weeks. Many changes have been made in the past, especially changes that make the board a lot more versatile.

First there's to mention the SD-Ram socket. The board is not limited to 32 megs of memory, but it can take any 3.3V SD-Ram up to 1GB. Video/multimedia memory is also expandable to up to 128megs with a SIMM module.

We have added a CPU slot. The board is no longer limited to a 65816 at 20Mhz. We can supply all kinds of different CPUs that have been used on all the classic homecomputers.

Of course, the "glue logic" of the thing must be different for every CPU. This is achieved with completely re-configurable logic. As opposed to mainstream computers where each chip has it's dedicated task, the C-One's two main chips have programmable behaviour. That means we can not only clone the C-64, but also a VIC-20, C-16, Atari 2600, Sinclair ZX81, Spectrum, Ohio Scientific Challenger, and we've even looked into the Super Nintendo. The possibilities are infinite. Get us the documentation of your favourite 8-bit machine, and with a little luck, you'll be able to download a core file for the mainboard that turns the C-One into a clone of that computer.

So please - do not see the C-One as a Commodore 64 replica. It's a giant leap in computer technology, having the opportunity to change the behaviour of the hardware on the fly, to adapt it's behaviour to the needs of the application that currnetly runs. This adaption is dynamic, the computer does not have to be restarted. Think of it as loading a sub-program, it's just that loading this sub-program equals installing a new add-on card on the board.

The C-One aims at those who are into computer nostalgia, as well as those who want it for educational purpose. We'll supply all kinds of material for you to start VHDL programming, and instantly try it out on this board. Start modifying the board without soldering, extend the capabilities of your video output, or even switch to a completely different computer on the fly.

This computer is not for the usual point-and-click user. It's going back to the times where each and every bit of the machine was documented, and forward to a new kind of computer technology: Re-configurable hardware.

As for emulators, they're out of the question. Since the hardware is re-configurable, it would have to be emulated at the gate level. To do this in real-time, we calculated that it would take a 24THz (24000 GHz) computer to emulate the smaller FPGA with 30.000 gates in realtime. The bigger of the two chips has 100.000 gates. I think it'll take a few years until the C-One becomes obsolete.

Jens Schönfeld
(individual Computers, we're bringing the C-One to the market)

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

I would just like to say that this sounds like the coolest thing since... uh, ever. Possibly. Will you be able to keep it around $200 still? If you do, there is NO doubt I will be getting one.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Wiesel]

$200 will not be possible. If you take a look at the specs page, there's already the new target price of 249,- EUR. That includes German VAT of 16% (the C-One will be made in Germany). This is only a target price, it may still change as development goes on.

Jens Schönfeld
individual Computers - we're bringing the C-One to the market.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, EUR249 is "around $200". :) Should be just fine, I really want one of these. Am beginning to save up money right about... now.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Goalie_Ca]

Sounds kick ass! Am i misunderstanding this or do i correctly understand that this runs vhdl. I'm in the process of learning vhdl right now and i think it would be really cool to test out some designs without looking at a waveform for a result. I'm only in 1st year engineering so actually designing hardware is out of the question. If so this would be totally kick ass!

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[drinkypoo]

As for emulators, they're out of the question. Since the hardware is re-configurable, it would have to be emulated at the gate level. To do this in real-time, we calculated that it would take a 24THz (24000 GHz) computer to emulate the smaller FPGA with 30.000 gates in realtime. The bigger of the two chips has 100.000 gates. I think it'll take a few years until the C-One becomes obsolete.

With all due respect for what has been accomplished here, saying that emulating the FPGA is impossible is arrogant at best. You only say that because no one has done it faster, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I suspect that just as compilers are optimized, so too can FPGA emulation; detecting when shortcuts can be made and making them.

It is obviously a very difficult problem with a large domain, as they say, but saying that it is impossible is like watching a bond movie and saying "he'll never get out of this one!" We'll find a way.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an idiot. Nothing 'runs' vhdl, it is compiled to RTL then turns into a fuse map that gets dumped into a device.
And what else do you expect out of vhdl besides waveforms? It's digital logic for chrissakes.
This is the future of electrical engineering? I'm glad I'm a mailman.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's "around $270"...

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

New? Reconfigurable hardware? That idea has been around for at least 50 years, and comes back every ten years or so to the mainstream. Then it goes back to obscurity.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not with Euros exchanged from my currency it isn't.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

haha try emulating the xbox you fools this is so ez its a piece of cake for a baby

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[notinuse]

Jens

This computer is looking more and more amazing. You, Jeri and the rest of the team deserve congratulations.

I met you about two years ago, at the Gateway Amiga show. You are one of the most patient people I have ever met, answering a lot of dumb questions. :^)

I know the Commodore One will be great. I've got one of your NICs in my A3000.

Jim

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't be from the US, Canada or Australia then. Cayman Islands?

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Wildstar128]

The C-One website has not been updated since a few weeks. Many changes have been made in the past, especially changes that make the board a lot more versatile.

First there's to mention the SD-Ram socket. The board is not limited to 32 megs of memory, but it can take any 3.3V SD-Ram up to 1GB. Video/multimedia memory is also expandable to up to 128megs with a SIMM module.
>>

Very good... Should we expand onto the features of the FPGA and some of the stuff we can do. I'll go from a message of yours. A 128 MB SIMM is to arrive.

Also let's go about a series of OSs that will be released for the C-One and some projects underway.

I figure you'll need 72.5 Terahertz to 75 Terahertz to emulate. Through in a Altera Stratix FPGA chip into the picture on an add on card and you'll need to emulate it - Especially when it would be reconfigurable too and guess what guys those can be 1 Million Gates or more. So kiss trying to emulate unless you got a 256 computer cluster with each computer having 65536 Pentium IV with the HT technology running at 3.06 Ghz. That's 16 Million CPUs. One of those will be quite expensive.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Wildstar128]

Because its a Pentium III motherboard. There is no emulation. It is powered by Windows and why emulate. Also it doesn't use hardware that is completely dynamic. Lets take some common sense, its no brainer to emulate an Atari 400 on a Commodore 64 so whats the difference that an XBox is to a PC. That is what it is basically. Same instruction set, same basic Direct X stuff. So what the he** are you doing. Just patching Windows XP with a few XBox special software. Its essentially the same OS for crying out loud.

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Wildstar128]

Do you understand what a gate array is. Think of it as an 30000 and a 100000 element array and the array elements have multistate relations. Its a tedious task for the CPU. Yet you need alot of chips. For $250, we can simply throw in an Altera Stratix with 1-3 Million gates. I think that there won't be the hardware technology even in 20 years. You need a Quantumn computer to get a real boost. Other than that, you'll need to have Bill Gates check book. :-)

Re:It's much more! Emulating this is impossible!

[Anonymous Coward]

:D

I'd like to see my favorite 16-bit machine emulated by the C=1: the Apple IIgs which, like the C=1 and the Super NES, used the 65816. Probably never happen though :(

-uso.

Commodores and Amigas

[Jace of Fuse!]

The Amiga One is actually being produced, 4.0 is looking pretty cool and there is a new Commodore 64.

What's the temperature in hell again?

Re:Commodores and Amigas

[TeknoHog]

The temperature in hell is proportional to the number of x86 PCs that took over the market, despite the technical and overall coolness of Amiga. The new Amigas need better marketing, no matter how technically advanced they are.

Re:Commodores and Amigas

[Dynedain]

Well, considering the zip code for Hell, Michigan is 48169, I'd say pretty damn cold.

Old Pac Man Game

[saunder3]

I have friend with an arcade Pac Man game. Unfortunately, the machine took some abuse at a party. Now the display works intermittently and is unusable when it does work.

Would it be possible for me to repair it myself? I know very little of the actual workings of the machine, but I would love to restore a classic and do my friend a favor.

Re:Old Pac Man Game

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Sure it is, you could replace the monitor cheaply if you could find a repair shop in your local area to switch it out.

The only problem is those old monitors hold a charge in them for a very long time. Let me tell you the last thing you want is one of them discharging on you, they can kill and that is not and exageration.

Most of them time is is a card that is located near the rear of the tube that have the horizontal, and vertical adjustments on it. Just a guess, I had that go on the Galaga machine.

I would suggest that you get someone that works on them to take a look at it. Just pull the number off the next machine you see in a pizza shop or a laundry map and ask them if you could bring it in to get shopped. They are most of the time happy to do something for a couple of bucks on the side depending on what it cost to fix it.

Good luck.

Re:Old Pac Man Game

[Stonent1]

I bought a used Shinobi and got it working, the power supply was putting out +16v on the +12v side and +8v on the +5v but there was a manual adjustment "screw" that I used to lower the power down to 12v and 5v and it worked great after that. Later I converted it into a PC/PS2 based arcade system. My website about it

Slight modification

[GQuon]

10 ? "IN SOVIET RUSSIA"
20 ? "YOU ARE COMMODORE MILLLENIUM"
30 ? "?"
35 ? "PROFIT!"
40 GOTO 10

the need for speed

[whovian]

65c816 processor running at approximately 20 MHz,

Is that on air or on water?

Nyoooooo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone do a Speccy one!
The Sinclair Spectrum deserves kudos.
Screw you C64 deviants!

Your sprites were crap! Even crapper than color bleeding!

I demand retribution!

Re:Nyoooooo!

[usotsuki]

The eternal Speccie f74m3r.

I heard it wasn't going to be that hard to tweak the C1 into a Speccy.

-uso.

THE GIRL

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else find this hardware designer chick attractive and yet somehow threatening at the same time? ;-)

Re:THE GIRL

[joetee]

Yes, I do. :-p

Re:THE GIRL

[Anonymous Coward]

She's kind of cute, but too skinny. As a tech guy myself, the LAST THING ON EARTH I'd want in a girlfriend is more tech trash talk. She's also kind of rude in emails.
Definitely autistic material.
Let's hope she can afford to EAT from now on.

Let the hobbying begin??

[rudy_wayne]

I *AM* a hobbyist. Starting with a Color Computer over 20 years ago (Radio Shacks version of the Commode Door 64) my "hobby" now includes the biggest and fastest hardware available -- not some crap that was outdated 15 years ago.

Re:Let the hobbying begin??

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the CoCo was much more limited than the C64. ;) For one, I think it usually came with 16-32K RAM, where the 64 came with 64.

Then again, I'm predisposed to bash high-endian, so don't listen to me ;)

-uso.

Re:Ya! For the C64 - I'll do ya one better

[Anonymous Coward]

My original was a VIC-20 (original Vic for $320, blocky keyboard and 3.5k of RAM). I didn't have a Dataset (cassette recorder with a whopping 10k/minute transfer rate) to save programs. So I'd type them in (screw the flowchart). When it came time to save and turn off my VIC, I'd write down all 70 lines of BASICk on MY legal pad.

I quickly saved up and bought a 1541 disk drive.

It made the news in the most read Austrian Paper

[steelvadi]

http://wcm.krone.at/krone/C9/S12/A3/object_id__219 0/hxcms/

Well hell if an article writer of an important newspaper thought it was newsworthy I think we've got a winner no matter what anybody says. Maybe not in the US but in Germany where it was made and the other european countries where it was a big hit (especially eastern european countries like hungary or poland) it will be a success.

As all ex-matrox users know...

[Kev Vance]

...Millennium is spelled with two m's.

Commodore One, Amiga One, Damnit! Where's my...

[codeMonkeyWannabe]

...CoCo 4?!? And where's my Timex Sinclair 8000?

Re:Space Shuttle Columbia Lost during re-entry

[unitron]

"Since the editors haven't posted this yet (happened yesterday) I figured i'd do it."

Happened yesterday?!? Are you posting from the future?

Anyone know the size of the board?

[ColGraff]

This thing, according to the site, ships as an ATX MoBo. Anyone know how big it is? Also, is there any way to get a sufficiently small atx mobo to run off a flexATX power supply? (I've got an adorable flexatx case from directron, perfect for this little bundle of joy. :-) )

Re:Anyone know the size of the board?

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be nice! But unfortunately, the C1 board is too big even for a MicroATX case - so FlexATX is certainly out of the question. Too bad IMO - they should have at least made it fit MicroATX. Requiring full size ATX case for a "modern C64" is ridiculous!

Wow, no kidding?

[Enraged_jawa]

I still have my original Commodore 64 and a TRS-80, are they now worth something?

Foward, into the past - Firesign Theatre

Someone has to say it (maybe at least twice)

[senducemhere]

How about a Beowulf Cluster of new C64s!

Berkeley Softworks totally RAWKZZ!

[hfx_ben]

Oh man, the hours I worked with GeoProgrammer ... I even had the 64K RAM pack ... //64K//!!!! haaahaha It was a totally wonderful assembler IDE.
I used it for creating optimized fractal programs, calling BIOS for the math. And I wrote a double-res print driver, and even got the 64C to run at 2400BPS instead of 2396.5 or whatever it was by default.
*Hey, if some C64 geek out there remembers "Thinking Cap", give me a call wudya?*

The only machine I enjoyed programming more was NEC Trek ... Z80 at 1.2 MHz! Whoohooo! 8-)

I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

So I can code Jumpman 3.

BeDoper, Crapdot.org

65c816

[stor]

That chip brings back memories: it was the processor (a Motorola) that ran the Apple IIGS. You can get Apple IIGS emulators - the best one seems to be Kegs.

http://kegs.sourceforge.net/

Cheers
Stor

Re:65c816

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a Motorola. The 65816 was made by Western Designs (the 6502 was made by MOS technologies).

Re:65c816

[Anonymous Coward]

65816 was made by Western Design, not Motorola. ;)

-uso.

Processor is too fast

[billstewart]

It's 20 MHz when the original was 1 MHz. Doesn't this mean that the Space Invaders will come down and kick your ass before you can shoot them, and the cars will run over Frogger before you can get him across the road?

C-128

[Alehandro]

I'm still happy with my Commodore 128:)

Awesome!

[Anonymous Coward]

So where are my Samantha Fox Strip Poker floppies again???

Welcome to some news about the C-One

[Wildstar128]

Before we start with why buy a C-One for $250 if I can buy an Intel MB for $75 and a 1 Ghz CPU and 512 MB of SD-RAM for $250~300. The C-One is not just a Commodore but a variety of computer platforms when you consider that the C-One is completely reprogrammable down to the hardware itself. The key components that makes this computer - Reconfigurable - is the two FPGA chips.

Ok, some of you will ask what is FPGA ? FPGA is an acroynm for Field Programmable Gate Array. Now what does this mean ? The FPGA is a chip that can be reprogrammed to function as different kinds of controllers/ICs/processors to meet a specific task. For more info about FPGAs, check out http://www.altera.com

The C-One is not only a c64 and many other platforms by simply reconfiguring the FPGAs and adding a CPU card (such as a Z80 CPU card) if the computer that you are trying to emulate needs something other than a 65c816. It may even be a custom platform of its own (customizable even by you).

If your concern is to buy the C-One to replace your existing PC. Then you got the wrong idea by thinking "replace". Try thinking compliment/add.
If you are truly fed up with Windows, C-One would be a fine replacement computer.

The C-One is targeted for those who want to have fun with the computer. You are open to be creative. Sure it can be used for serious use.
Think of it as a new platform that you can have part in shaping its future. Be involved and have fun. I even have some projects that I will love to work on for this machine. The ultimate point depends on how you want to do.

XBox Paperweight?...

[grimsweep]

"Could someone make me a Beta recorder in a xbox case please?!"

But why make it a paperweight when the x-box makes an even better doorstop?

Awesome!

[whereiswaldo]

I am definitely going to pick up one of these machines. It's too bad it's not going to be an "unwrap it, plug it in" experience, though. Having to supply your own case will be a bit of a problem for some. I'm buying one anyway!

And in the latest news

[Anonymous Coward]

The XT ][ is now available for purchase. The XT ][ is a reimplementation of the IBM XT in an ATX form factor, 8086 processor running at approximately 2000 MHz, SVGA out, an updated 25PINSOFUSELESSNESS Cereal Port, 512 MB of RAM, ultra 8-bit ISA, AT ports, and a 360kb 360 degrees of freedom floppy frive. Let the FPSing begin.

Re:And in the latest news

[JoeCommodore]

Don't knock it, I KNOW there are folks who would like to see their XT software be able to run on modern hardware (& speed) without all that GUIness. I don't believe we have a one OS or PC fitrs all society, there is too much diversity.

The amazing thing about the Commodore 64

[Rellik66]

is that having a blue screen was considfered a good thing.

OSNews to interview Jeri and Jens :)

[Mike Bouma]

I am planning an interview with Jeri and Jens for OSNews.com with regard to the c-one and Catweasel board (targeted mainly at AmigaOne/Pegasos/AmigaOS emulation users) today. If there are any questions anyone would like to see answered, then you can suggest them here or send me an email.

I am planning to publish this interview somewhere next week. My interview/article will likely emphasize that the c-one is a reconfigurable solution, not solely for c64 fans. So stay tuned.

For the people who understand German, here's an interesting piece regarding the c-one by a German Mag.

Here's a video of an Amiga show where a prototype c-one was being demonstrated by Jeri. Also the Pegasos and AmigaOne were being sold at this event.

Some more pictures of Jeri and some interesting Pegasos demonstration video can be found here.

coco4

[zeppelin71]

Ideas for a Coco4 have been tossed around repeatedly over the last several years but no one has ever stepped up to the plate to make it happen. It doesn't help any that there were a variety of hardware vendors all in the dying days of Tandy's involvement (early 90s) all claiming to have the Coco 4.... but most of those machines were not 8 bitters... rather Motorola 68K OS-9 (OS-K) based machines. In my opinion not the true spirit of the coco.

There is a "Superboard" planned for the coco... check out: http://www.cloud9tech.com/ In my opinion this is as close as we'll ever get to a Coco 4.

Re:Very True.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your childhood memories are not being played upon. The CommodoreOne was initially a personal project for Jeri, and she only decided to start selling them when people expressed an interest. It isn't some megacorp selling these, it's just two C64 lovers.

As for what good 20Mhz is, well, look up WiNGS at some point.

PROFIT! isn't the point of it.

[Black Rabbit]

Making money from it isn't the point. The C1 isn't intended for that...it's intended primarily for hobbyists, and they don't exactly anticipate any sort of duplication of the original C64's popularity. Holy shit! Can't anybody do anything for the sheer enjoyment of it anymore, or does everything have to make a buck?

C1 Business Plan

1.) Reminisce about the old C64 days
2.) Build updated version of C64
3.) Sell it to hobbyists
4.) ???
5.) PROFIT!...no...FUN!

I think one of these things will be a blast! If I can aford it, I'll get one!

Potential incompatibilities

[acb]

I suspect that the C-1 will not be 100% C64 compatible; for example, software which uses "undocumented instructions" (opcodes which rely on 6510-specific quirks to do things) may fail if the 65C816 doesn't have these opcodes (which I suspect it won't).

The 6510 was basically a 6502 only the first 2 memory locations were inside the chip and controlled which memory banks were switched into the 64K address space. I'd guess that there'd be a FPGA on the memory bus looking for writes to these locations and switching the appropriate lines. Could that cause any differences in operation between this and the 6510?

Are there any other places where the C-1's behaviour would differ from a C64's?

You forgot NINNLE

[Anonymous Coward]

6. NINNLE!

Re:The only important question is....NINNLE!

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear they're working on a port of Ninnle Linux for it!

Mandatory post

[stephandahl]

... so imagine a Beowulf cluster of these ...

Sorry, I'll go bark to lurking now.

Ahh... the Commodore...

[dtobias]

I never owned a C64 myself, but I used to work for the place that published Loadstar... I think some early issues of it have programs I wrote (actually ported from issues of Softdisk for the Apple II).

But as for this new machine, I'd say that reimplementing a 20-year-old computer platform with capabilities that make it only about 5 years obsolete is a big "geek achievement", but probably of rather limited real-world utility.. :)

But the C-1

[unicorn]

isn't an original. It's basically an emulation as well. Just a very slick hardware one, rather than a software emulator.

There's nothing original about it tho.

How about something more modern?

[Junks Jerzey]

Gotta love the C64 (and Atari 800), for being cheap, understandable, reliable, unchanging, and far away from modern nonsense like cooling and crazy-high power consumption. I'd love to have something with the same characteristics, but not just a rehash of 1982 technology that runs a lot faster. Surely it wouldn't be difficult to put together a standard system that looks dated to the hardware junkies, but would be completely awesome and fun to play with. PCs are too complex to be fun (and Linux doesn't change that).

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

Cheap geek box...

[jasno]

Kudos to the developers for such an awesome little box!

My biggest question is how they're managing to sell it for only $200 bucks, and why I can't buy a similar board outfitted with a cheap-o Arm (or other 32-bit machine) to run linux on for about the same price.

32 MB?

[h4x0r-3l337]

According to the specs the thing has a 24-bit address-space, which would limit it to 16 MB of memory...

7. ALL YOUR BASE

[Anonymous Coward]

8. ARE BELONG TO US

Re:FIRST POSTR

[Anonymous Coward]

> The shuttle Columbia is God's wrath upon the American and Jewish dogs!

So by that token, the 3000 lb. bunker busters that will be raining from the skies over Bahgdad in a few weeks will be God's wrath upon the Muslim dogs?

(If so, it would seem God is a lot more pissed at Muslim dogs than American and Jewish dogs, right? Only 7 died on the shuttle...)

Of course, if you had a fucking clue, you would realize that ALL people are pretty much the same, and that religion is a crutch for the weak and superstitious morons of the world.

Last Post!

[alpg]

Several years ago, some smart businessmen had an idea: Why not build a big
store where a do-it-yourselfer could get everything he needed at reasonable
prices? Then they decided, nah, the hell with that, let's build a home
center. And before long home centers were springing up like crabgrass all
over the United States.
-- Dave Barry, "The Taming of the Screw"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...