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What Should I Do With My Life?
Given all that, I figured What Should I Do With My Life? was pretty much written for me. The book tells the true stories of dozens of people who made hard decisions and gave up careers, educations, and lifestyles in order to give themselves reasons to get up every morning, and maybe to find true happiness. In researching the book, Po Bronson interviewed nearly a thousand people all over the US, and got to know some of them very well. He intertwines their stories with his own personal tale, and often pauses between stories to reflect on everything he saw and learned while writing the book.
So how's the book? Good and bad.
I had hoped to distill some great truth from these stories -- to leave with a clear sense of the changes I have to make, and with the resolve to make them. No dice. To be fair, Bronson never promises any such thing; in fact, he promises quite the opposite. And rightfully so. There are certainly no silver bullets here.
But my real problem with What Should I Do With My Life? is that I couldn't identify with so many of its subjects, and eventually that turned me off. It felt like four out of five people had law degrees or worked in finance or politics. Very few were geeks, or even grunt-level office 9-to-5'ers. In his introduction Bronson says "the people in this book are ordinary people," but it didn't feel that way. An ex-doctor whose father was a famous cardiologist; a Hollywood production executive; an established Hollywood screenwriter; CFOs, CEOs; guys that sold startups for millions. A PhD marine biologist who "quit and became a dentist." Wowie.
Even Bronson's generalizations alienated me. The "we" that define ourselves by our salary or possessions or career achievements -- that's not my "we." I think (hope?) Bronson has spent so much time in Silicon Valley culture that he's over-projecting. Maybe I'm not ambitious enough, but I've never been a careerist and neither have my friends. So when Bronson steps back so say we need to fight the urge to justify ourselves by our status, I think "who's 'we'? I never had that urge." I've never had anything to prove to anyone but myself; yet I still feel trapped by some of the life/career decisions I've made.
Now, the book doesn't focus solely on outstanding people. It's just that once I noticed all the med school and law degrees and sold-her-third-startup, I couldn't not notice them anymore, and I'd say to myself "maybe this book isn't for me after all. I'm nothing like these people."
But enough bitching. There's some great stuff in the book as well and some stories really connected with me: the attorney turned trucker; the husband/wife team that bought a tree farm; the would-be Olympic athlete who had to give it up for motherhood; and more. Better yet, some concepts stayed with me. For instance, the this-should-be-obvious concept that local cultures shape expectations and self-worth differently. "In Los Angeles, if you say you're a musician, you're asked ... are you, or will you be, successful? In New Orleans, if you say you're a musician, then people accept that you're a musician, even if you jam one night a week at some dive with no audience." Nice.
My favorite concept from this book is one of Bronson's closing points: the reminder that all you get is a glimmer. The rest is all you and your willingness to to see where that glimmer takes you. I've lived this -- it's true in the creation of good software, it's true in making records, it's true in any creative pursuit. Eureka moments rarely happen, so don't wait around for one.
I found myself flying through this book -- it's written in a nice, casual tone and it's an easy read. But reading quickly was a mistake. I suggest reading a chapter or two at a time, then putting the book down to digest it. Otherwise it's too easy for people and stories to blur together or be forgotten entirely. Maybe that's why the online excerpts were so compelling -- I was left with 2 pages to think about instead of 75.
Okay, so Po Bronson didn't provide the answers to all my problems. But he got me to frame my "what am I doing to do" question better, and he got me to take it seriously. That's worth $15 right there. It's also uplifting to read about people who have found their bliss. There is hope!
I'll lend this book to a lot of friends and I'll probably buy copies for a few as well. It's worth a read.
Whether or not you buy the book, I strongly recommend reading the aforementioned NPR interview and excerpted chapter. Those alone address some great points and will get you thinking.
You can purchase What Should I Do With My Life? from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page. You may also want to visit Po Bronson homepage: pobronson.com."
Become a laid off programmer who can't find a fulltime job like most of us! I know, I know, it's sounds a little crazy but besides being broke, depressed and out of energy you'll love it!
Good Review
Definitly a good read.
------
FunPic
Pimps Quest
Cutiequake
...then read more about it on NPR
wait, isnt npr a radio station?Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
Not a flame. Sincerely.
Good review, but I'm curious: how do you give up an "education?" I mean, you can decide not to continue with an education, but the theory is (I hope) that once you have it, education sorta -- more or less -- sticks. Although this might not apply if you're an idiot.
Give it a meaning. Do not search for one, give one, create a meaning.
Never forget: You are the center of your world. You are the reason for your decisions.
Where can I get one?
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
What Should I Do With My Life?
After an hour of solid effort first thing in the morning make your unfulfilling job more enjoyable by fucking the dog and reading slashdot for the rest of the day.
WorksForMe!
Trolling is a art,
An ex-doctor whose father was a famous cardiologist; a Hollywood production executive; an established Hollywood screenwriter; CFOs, CEOs; guys that sold startups for millions. A PhD marine biologist who "quit and became a dentist." Wowie.
Some of the local papers run these stories too--about people who cashed in on the "hectic dot com lifestyle" to run a bed and breakfast or some sort. Makes it a lot easier to "get out of the rat race" when you have a nice, fat bank account to fall back on.
I am much more impressed, as you note, with those who are not independently wealthy, but chunk the opportunity to become so in order to follow their dreams. Like, say, the teacher I married.
And no, I don't have a problem with those pursuing wealth above all else either...as long as they are fulfilled its their own choice to make.
I pulled a jack move to cop this sig
I've rarely seen a career advice book that had any useful advice, and this sounds as if it fits into that pile.
I've changed directions several times in my life, and in most cases it's been a leap up (or at least not a leap back). The main thing is finding what you like to do, what you want to achieve, and a way to do it legally while making money. Sure there's compromises, stretches, and training, but no one promised life would be easy.
I expect to see more and more books on Careers with this economy. Look soon for a book where some author explains or studies people who left IT for other careers.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
What do YOU want to do. If you need a book to tell you - if you even *think* about wandering over to the self-help section of a bookshop, and picking up a copy of `coping with choices` - then I suggest you do the only honourable thing that's open to you.
Do what you love. No one wants to breathe their last with a sigh of wasted days. Live life fully daily. Life's too short to waste an entire day with a hangover. I have never heard anyone lament on their deathbed "I never should have bought that nice stereo".
I love programming, cold weather and storms. I don't have time for dread. Life is meant to be lived and I'm all over it. BANZAI!!!
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
I was an engineer with the same issues. So, I took action, I quit my job 6 months ago because I was dissatisfied. My friends told me I was crazy to give up six figures when jobs are so scarce.
I am now bootstrapping my own company to do the types of research and development that make me happy. Since they are profitable that was extremely possible. I am doing contracting to pay the bills, and I am actually making a quite a decent living. Its much more satisfying too. I do 20 hours of contracts and 20 hours of R & D / startup stuff for me. I would recommend the jump to your dreams for anyone. After 6 months I am happier with my career than I ever have been and should be shipping my 1st products in a few months!
Live the Dream BROTHER!
I haven't read the book reviewed, but people need to read classical text, like Aristotle, Nietsche, I-ching, Veda's, Mahabarahta, and countless other philosophical text. The struggle for identity is not static and people need to realize this. Who you are does not derive from what you do. What you do is a part of who you are, but it is not equal. There are those who like to play "waiting for gadot" and others who live in "six characters in search of an author." Still some are befuddled like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Read people, and it will open your eyes.
I thought it was another Ask Slashdot.
It seems by concentrating your efforts on "greener pastures" you are avoiding dealing with some unresolved conflicts. We should be talking about why you aren't talking about these. What is really going on in your workspace?
Watch out, Ashcroft and the feds should be coming to your door as I write this...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
.. and expect to live of the amazon procentage.
Seriously! I've a fairly good site going - more than 300 reviews, which is lots more content then most book sites (which are mostly just lists of top selling books on amazon).
I get about 150 unique visitors a day (not enough to make money on banners so I don't have any, but more than must Science Fiction book review site), and that has, on average, given me 10us$ a month (thats the total from both amazon us and amazon uk). Even with the review copies, that some publishers are nice enough to send me thrown into the calculation, this is less than I spend on the site.
I would love to read and review full time for my own site (there wouldn't be much point to it if I did it for somebody else..), but I'm not prepared to learn how to live on bugs and leftovers.
Besides I still enjoy programming as a professional... (changing to php has given me new life).
Good luck on changing your life...
TC - My Photos..
First, men and women are not the same (surprise!), so there are two different answers. Secondly, the only real rule for measuring whether where you're going is "right" is when you're happy and not making other people unhappy. So here goes...
If you're a man, work hard while you're young, learn a profession that interests you, be it music, art, business, programming, whatever. Find someone to teach you, learn, work hard for ten years or so, then start on an independent basis. Have girlfriends but do not get married before your life has gelled. Use your work to invest in a family, look after that with your life, and you will die a happy man surrounded by your kids and grandkids.
If you're a woman, stick close to your family and learn the basic skills of looking after people: health, food, business, crafts. Date young men if you have to, but do not try to marry a man who is still changing. Best bet: marry a man who is 10 to 15 years older, and can look after you in the style you expect. Invest everything you can in your children and in the structures that keep them healthy. You'll get old and wrinkled like everyone does, but you'll be happy.
In work and outside work, we are only really happy when we're in a group that works like a healthy extended family. This means: mother and father figure, various aunts and uncles, and children. The social contract in such a group is: give everything you have to the group and you will be protected in all conditions.
Most people live in a different world, where the group says: you are totally free to do what you like, but the only ties we know are based on money and power. It's artificial and unsatisfying, and you will know the difference the first time your boss gets into financial troubles and his reaction is either (a) we all take a pay cut and find a way to fix our problems, or (b) you're fired and you can clear out your desk tomorrow.
I know it's not a complex philosophy, and it may sound sexist, but it's really not: healthy communities depend on each person, each gender, playing their role to the full.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
To buy a book to realize when it's time to move on from your job, and follow your dreams? Magazines like "Reader's Digest" etc are full of stories about individuals who have left a depressing/draining job to find themselves. Of course, these stories never mention the people that try this, and end up broke back living with their parents, etc.
If your job really, truly, sucks 100% of the time, you should know when to move on. How you go about moving on really depends on the job you have, and the job/etc you want. For most people, a job is only part of life, and if it's burning you out at some point you can take a holiday, or focus more on family etc or something else that makes you happy outside of the workplace.
Almost nobody enjoys their job 100% of the time, it's how you manage with the rest of your life that counts.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that reading the book allows you to better frame the question.
I read the book and walked away asking myself (and most of my friends and co-workers) what I REALLY want to do. Do I want to be in my same position a year from now? Five years from now?
I guess what I took from the book was that you need to look at what you've done and figure out how (or if) you can apply it to what you WANT to do.
I also felt that the people in the book that gave up being CEO, COO, being a doctor, lawyer or polital wonk were some of the more enlightening in that they were willing to give up years of education, experience, etc. and strike out at something new. If they could do that, surely my going school to learn photography starts to pale in comparrison.
I can't recommend this book enough if you've ever thought about changing your career or even wondered if there was something else out there.
> I am "successful" in my career. But I've found my day job unfulfilling for years, and as a
>musician I often wonder if I should follow my heart elsewhere.
Let me offer you the other side of the coin.
I was a musician since I was a little kid. I have a music degree from a big-name private music school. Playing was, and is, something that I very much enjoy.
I've also programmed as a hobby since I was a kid, since starting out on a Trash-80. Computers were something that interested me, but I never considered making a career out of it.
In 1996, I was a year out of college. I was living on a friend's couch, and eating cold cereal and canned beans three meals a day. I had *no* money, and no real prospects for making any.
A friend of a friend of a friend was running a porn site, and the business had grown to the point where he needed help. He offered me a job, part time, sorting pictures and answering customer email. Over time, I learned html, then perl, then server administration, blah blah blah.
Fast-forward seven years. I run my own consultancy. I work in my bathrobe most days. I eat cold cereal and canned beans (sometimes) because I happen to like them, not because this week's food budget is $4. I still play, but only for fun. Life is good.
Art is great, but be prepared to be a pauper if you're going to try to make a living at it. If you can deal with complete and utter poverty, go for it. For me, it just wasn't worth it.
Book Reviews? Shouldn't this be Ask Slashdot instead?
I'm pretty much a one-man IT department for a small company. I do a little of everything, and I've done this sort of thing for about six years. I like it.
But what I'd really like to be, is a lumberjack.
I don't suspect that /. is the best place to get input for any kind of life decision.
Even Bronson's generalizations alienated me. The "we" that define ourselves by our salary or possessions or career achievements
That probably says a lot about why he wrote the book. He probably over-generalized to everyone, but make no mistake: that's American society in a nutshell (i.e. - most people). It's these people who spend their lives never really thinking about where they're going. "I guess I'll go to college" "I guess this will be my career" "I guess I'll get married". People for the most part just never really THINK about their lives, their place in the world, about much of ANYTHING. I guess for some of us we tend to take for granted that you just sit idle some time to think about things, but it's sort of a shocker to a lot of people who are too busy selling their soul to a corporation for some menial gain in their trivial materialistic lives.
I'd say become a freelance consultant.
I worked for myself for a while. I spent a lot of
time with my youngest boy. I worked out of the house and was Mr. Mom for a while. It was cool, you
can't replace the time I had off with anything. I didn't have any worries then, no house, I rented from my in-laws. Now I've got a mortgate and an equity loan and bills bills bills. I've got to work. I hope to be able to design a widget on my own time that would allow me to retire early.. other than that my house will be paid off when I'm 65, Maybe earlier if I sneak in an extra payment per year.
What's all this whining about fulfilment anyway.
I work because I have a family and obligations.
I use my family to benchmark my life, not my job.
Frankly, I don't know.- It is very difficult to know what the hell she is thinking...
;-P
Oh wait, I mis-read the news
Everyone wonders. What makes life so enjoyable for some, dudgery for others? Think of the things that make you happy of course, figure out what you like, dislike, set goals and follow though. I've created my short list (in no order):
- Travel
- Friends / Family
- Art
- Keeping my mind sharp
- Being with someone
Some of my goals are easy. I just finished a 3 week vacation in Paris with a week in Val Thorens (Apls ski resort), met a bunch of great people and spent time with my sister and her husband.Other goals are very hard, Being with someone, my relastionships don't workout, and that hurts. Others like keeping my mind sharp is why I like programming (the puzzles of solving problems), and art (relaxes the mind).
Life is what you make of it- so make the most of it.
Of course the tag line on
Guess even random quote programs have a sense of whimsy.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
You're unhappy, huh? It's called living. Be happy you're eating and get over it.
Welcome to McDonald's may I help?
I always suggest Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning to people wondering about their purpose in the world. Frankl's discussion about concentration camp survivors and the inner drives that helped them endure when others could not is both inspiring and instructional.
This also extends to the workplace environment as well. The "fit" you have in your work environment has a tremendous influence on your productivity and overall happiness with a career. This is in part due to the influence of your surroundings ("supportive" vs. "pressure cooker").
But, in some cases, you can also control a lot of this by attitude (or perception) as well. A good example of this is worrying about job status or promotions as opposed to the actual goal of the work. A lack of focus on the true task at hand and fretting about things out of your control can have a negative impact on your work and general well being.
I liked this review -- though (interestingly) I went from considering buying the book after hearing the interview on NPR, to now thinking I probably won't.
I get the feeling there's important stuff in there for all of us.. and that the reviewer pretty much summed up the important stuff. Personally, I think he *should* try to shift over into another career. I actually started out in music (performance and studio engineering work), and switched to software dev, and I'm glad I switched... wait, let me clarify: I'm glad I started in music, *and* I'm glad I'm writing software now.
I'm not going to get into my own personal theories of happiness right now, but I do think everyone should do more than one thing in life. I also think they should live in more than one place during their lives - this ties in nicely with that comment about understanding the differences in cultures, and the effect they can have on the satisfaction you get out of what you do.
Whether you get the book or not, this is definitely a subject worth thinking about deeply, at least a few times a year!
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
I want to have sex for money, but prostitution is illegal.
DOH!
What to do? What to do?
I found that work was work. And it didn't matter
e r/hal.h tml
so much what you do. Having a "Great" job doesn't
make ALL the difference in life.
I started a microbrewery in Fairbanks, AK. It was hard work for a long time - sometimes puncuated by periods of time waiting for bueracracy. It was very satisfying to see your dream get up and running.
There's a nice story about it here:
http://lemming.polarnet.com/NewLemming/Int
But it turns out that although I can make beer I'm no good at marketing and the brewery in its best year came close to breaking even and in its worst years wasn't even close. It was heart breaking to watch it go under.
I know if I hadn't tried I would have wondered my whole life what would have been. But dreams may serve their function best as unrealized things to
aspire to. I spent about 3 years without dreams - at least big ones.
Now I'm back in IT - currently drawing unemployment and trying hard to get my next contract. And I'm certainly happier than I was for much of the time my brewery was running.
All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
Po Bronson used to write books about over-educated white people in Silicon Valley. Now - the ultimate question has been answered by more over-educated multi-degreed white people on what they should do with their lives. That a book like this even gets published blows my mind except the obviously self-indulged have an urge to read about the other 2 percent of people in the world just like them.
The stories are so snore-inducing I could barely keep my eyes from jumping and skimming paragraphs ahead to locate something of interest. How many times did my head hit the pages? I started to wonder if the "kinder, gentler Po Bronson" with his soft-spoken voice and new age-y happy talk might have intended the book as a subliminal Deepak Chopra-esque meditation vehicle of some sort. Your eyes are getting heavy, you find yourself drifting off....
At the end I wouldn't have given you a plug nickel for anyone in the book and some of them were more repugnant than others in their whiny-ness and cluelessness. Like the one who went to medical school and decided to drop out after two months because she "didn't like sick people" like what the hell, hadn't she ever BEEN to a Doctor before? Didn't she KNOW that's what they do?
The book is filled with the stories of people who live within a 300 mile radius of San Francisco. Just about everyone is from the area from LA to Seattle with only a few out of this main drag as filler (or to make the book seem more serious). I used to live in this area. Insufferable individuals, who are overly impressed with themselves like the ones in this book, are why I don't live there any longer.
Most impressed with himself is the author, Po Bronson, who liberally infuses the book with cutaways into his own miraculous existence. Although he takes the blame for ruining his first marriage by cheating on his wife, he also calls her a West Coast Feminist and contrasts that with his new wife, who apparently stays much more in her place and defers to Po and let's him feel all big and strong and manly. In fact there are several thinly veiled insults to his former wife (who does not have a name) which are supremely tacky since she was with him for 12 years and pretty much encouraged and fostered his entire writing career. Way to go, Po! And perhaps a warning - look for the wolf in sheep's clothing wife number two.
Not to mention that after somewhat accidentally ending up a father, Po goes on to slam his former ideals about not wanting children. Then he slams all people who choose NOT to breed as doing it out of FEAR. He thinks it takes courage to procreate and raise children. He says, it's not that big a deal, really. Well, NOT IF YOU ARE A MAN.
What world does this guy live in? He crows about HONESTY yet I see little in this book. This is like those supposed "reality" TV shows where you go to a lush island and try to "survive" knowing there is a crew chuckwagon and medical staff standing two feet from the camera in case you stub your toe.
This is a book for the RATIONALIZATION GENERATION. The same kids he wrote about in Silicon Valley who need to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves that it's ok they lost a billion dollars. This is a book for the privelaged who need validation. Or as Bronson calls them "people with more choices" than "the working class". Right. You mean the people who actually WORK and don't cry in Starbucks about what LOSERS they are.
The people profiled in this book didn't take any REAL risks. In fact, most of them didn't do anything but change jobs here and there or think about changing a job or consider switching enterprises within their same field. There are only a scant few who chuck it all to weave baskets (in this case sell trees, farm catfish, become a long-haul trucker) and truthfully they are the only stories that have a modicum of impact. The rest are the kind of people you would move away from quickly at a cocktail party.
And Bronson himself is the one you'd want to beat feet from the fastest. He truly needs to GET OVER HIMSELF. Maybe that should be his next book, "What should I do to GET OVER MYSELF."
Don't matter what anybody tells you, you need to subsist somehow, on whatever income you have, so unless you can take on part-time work, and willing to reduce the cost of your living, knee-jerk shifts in life are always a bad idea. there's nothing to stop you from kicking off a dope band while you're working. hell use your hard earned money to record your own album start a label, do a zine. its a bit daft to chuck in a means of living to chase after some half-baked dream werd. think living with parents, think creditors calling think no d0pe ass ride
I wish I had some mod points for you.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
I think he might be talking about this:
Imagine a Java coder. Took courses exclusively in Java, aimed at knowing every minute subchunk of the API. "Graduates" from his trade school. Knows nothing of the larger art/science/cruft of computer science. Couple of years into the workforce, she wants to quit coding Java.
She's giving up an education. I would submit that it was a el crapola education to begin with, but she's still giving it up.
I happen to believe that GOOD educations stick around through general conceptualizations, rather than rote memorization, but that's gotta be drifting, if not steaming, OT.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Hands up everyone who's heard themselves talking about work to friends or family saying "Well, what we did was..."
It's not WE unless you're self-employed or have a significant stake in the enterprise. It's a super-liminal strategy that ensures we - we employees - identify our own wellbeing and status with that of the organisation that happens to pay our salaries.
For those rare few self-actualisers who actually do control their own professional life, perhaps along with a few other close friends: congratulations.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
I live my life vicariously through the cowboy Neal Slashdot options polls.
but i find that reading 'inspriational' stories can't fully solve life's problems.
i dread entering the real world. i do not want a 9-5 job everyday. i will go mad, i am sure of it. when i mention my feelings to friends and family they laugh and say some cliche like "welcome to the real world" or say "Let me know when you find that magical job where you don't have to work all day"
now, 'It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.'
my whole life i have bounced from idea to idea. project to project, usually not finishing them. granted, most of these endeavors have been games (board games and recently computer games), novels, inventions, and learning musical instruments. nothing too ground breaking, but i have learned that i dont feel like sticking with the same ole for too long.
some could call it lazy or irresponsibly or naive or ignorant of the real world and a mature mindset, but i would call it unbridled unmotivation with random spurts of awesome productivity.
when i find something i am interested in, i tend to really go after it rather intensely for a period of time, usually dictated by whether i am in school or working or taking the summer off like i did last summer for the first time in 6 years (and quite possibly my last)
my point is, i am not one to push individuality like its the hottest new drug. i think its great to be who you are, but many who boast individuality and non conformity are conforming to the general perception of non conformism, which isnt really being unique now huh?
its a delicate line to walk. the best way i have found to figure it all out is to really get to know yourself honestly. most people i know think they got it all figured out (which is a dead giveaway they dont).
hmm, i just thought of something. perhaps the meaning of life is to figure out who you really are. and not just who you are, but how you react in all situations in life. its like a lifelong investigation of the one person you are stuck with for as long as you are conscious... you. without sounding like a multiple personality, i see myself from this perspective quite often. it makes understanding the things i do easier if i can see myself from a different perspective.
and to make this long post short, when you have a better idea who you are and how conditioned other people can be, it makes it easier to consciously be yourself and do the things you want and to just laugh with the people joking at your plans for the future. sure, i might not ever open up my own workshop with my brothers to make novels, games, music, and engineering marvels. but its a dream that could happen, and more than likely, my future job will be directed by that dream (which will likely change or morph as i finish grad school and enter the workforce.)
gasp. this was more of a blog than i a post (i think.. i have never blogged before) i am just trying to stay in the spirit of the book in question and give my own outlooks on life, the universe and all that jazz.
-John
"The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and hoping for different results"
As the writer of the article pointed out, he didn't feel the persons described were 'ordinary' enough. So here's my little story.
I've been working with computers since about when I was 14, and I graduated a computerscience study last year. But I'm no hard-core programmer, I know my way around Java and have years of PHP experience, but I find myself lacking the motivation to follow this career into a more 'heavier' profile, like becoming a C++ programmer.
For now, I've decided to start with a new study, I'm thinking of becoming an architect. With it's mix of technic and design/art it may be just the thing I've been looking for. I think it will be great building actual stuff that people can walk around in instead of building computer code that perhaps lasts a few years (maybe even fewer if it's internet-related coding).
I think there is a simple route cause for many people's unhappiness with their careers - they are using other people's criteria for what "successful" means.
When I was in my early twenties, just after I left university, I was full of ambition, and was going to rule the world, and be a "success". I met a guy in his 30s at a party who was a gardener. He had a crappy rented flat and was paid next to nothing tending people's gardens. I thought, what a loser, when I'm his age I'm going to be successful and rich! And I told him as much. He looked me straight in the eye and told me he was the most successful person he knew. He spent all day outside doing a job he loved, he had little stress and didn't feel the need to have loads of stuff or a big house. And he told me I didn't understand myself yet. I remember thinking he was loser and a jerk, and knowing what I was like then I expect that came across quite clearly.
Now I'm older I can imagine that conversation, and I cringe at who I was then. I was the jerk, and he was right - he was a success and I didn't know what I wanted. Thankfully I do now, and I'm very happy doing a job I love.
But I still have friends who are really "successful" but really unhappy. I told one recently that he should give up his (very "successful") career in insurance and become an interior decorator (which is what he had always wanted to do when he was younger). His response was "are you nuts? I couldn't possibly do that. Everyone would think I was crazy."
Ho hum.
I consider myself sucessful in my computer-related career, yet I don't entirely enjoy it. I'd much rather be a mechanic of better cars (Porsche, Audi, BMW). That however would require that I took a year or so off from work to go through the training, and I just can't afford to do that right now.
I say lets hold a slashdot poll for whether you change jobs or not!
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
If you are female, then the answer is simple. Have an affair with a congressman.
If you are male, then the same advice should work.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
Books like this are written to placate people who think the grass is always greener someplace else. What happens when Bob decides to run a bed and breakfast and becomes unfullfilled doing that after a couple of years because he never realized his dream of driving a school bus (or whatever)?
Maybe the problem is that Bob prefers the life he doesn't have to the one he does (regardless of what he is currently doing)?
I would recommend reading pretty much anything by Barbara Sher. Her books address various aspects of living your dream, from figuring out what it is to making it happen. These are not "touchy-feely" self-help books. She never strays into that "if you only believe in yourself" crap. And the people in her success stories are people I can identify with.
The message boards on her site are an incredible resource as well.
Isn't
"Read more about it on NPR"
akin to saying
"Smelled more about it on TV?"
.sig Karma out the wazoo, better to spend points elsewhere if this is above 2 or below 0
From the sample chapter: ...I'll be the first to admit it's not like what you do. It's not my passionI'm doing this for the wages, and I'm doing this because it doesn't eat me alive.
Erh... Wasn't the point to do something that you really like? I fail to see the courage in escaping to a trivial job. Surely there must be something more creative to do for a man with a law degree than trucking?
Geez, I hate being cynical, but:
Some of us *have* sacrificed careers for something we were hoping would give us a reason to get up in the morning, only to find that it's still the same old same old.
There's a little bit of "no matter where you go, you always bring yourself with you" involved.
But I've found that many of us really don't know what we wanna do when we grow up. I include myself: I've been a programmer for 20 years. I don't love it. It puts bread on the table. It pays for my home. Heck, it pays for my home theater.
I just don't think that that many of us are going to get jobs where we "get paid to play". What *I* consider playing just won't pay me very well, if it paid at all.
So, I personally really do find the thought of reading about more people who have found what I don't think I'll ever find quite discouraging.
Is my life a drag? Far from it! But, work is work and life is life. They don't really intermingle that much for me.
Mark
"To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, `You must not eat of it,'
'Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.'
We only live once (that we know of) so make the most of it. If you live right, once is enough.
:)
I do anything I want to, if it interests me. Why? Because I can. I've been with OSHA, I've been a race car driver, I've been a writer, worked in a tattoo shop, network engineer, among other things.
Not for money or fame, I don't care about that, I did it because I wanted to. And I am richer (not in terms of wealth) for it. The experiences will last a lifetime, far beyond the thrill of a new computer or a new kernel upgrade.
Life finds a way to working itself out. I've never been homeless, even though I was jobless for a year. Even then, life had something to offer, if we would only learn from it.
As an aside, of all the jobs I've held, the illegal ones were most fun
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Steve has it solved for you, just buy iLife and install it, you'll be all set.
P
Don't listen to other people's, listen to "pubjames"'s. He's the only one who matters.
All the time I hear people saying "Don't worry about what other people say", and then going on to explain exactly what they think about the issue. Hell of a qualifying statement you got there: "I'm about to go on for a bit, but you should absolutely, positively, without question, ignore every word of it."
You thought he was a jerk, and with good reason: He was telling you his own view of what success is. Just because "Personal Happiness" has the word "Personal" in it, don't think that it isnt just somebody else's view of what success is.
So listen to my view of what success is, don't care about what some old guy tells you: Success is not personal happiness. Success and feeling "fulfilled" are entirely seperate things. Success is just what you do in order to have enough time to be fulfilled.
In case you can't guess, I am not successful.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Sometimes doing what you love for income does not work. I love flying, and regulary use MS Flight Simulator 2002. And I also fly the real thing, a rented Cessna 172, and am slowly earning my private pilot licence. I love to fly, but my income is consulting and work I get through the S corp. So I so not earn through my passion, but I am free enough that when I want to fly on a Wednesday morning, I do so without having to "take off work" or "call in sick". I just don't book a selling appointment Wed. morning and I'm free as a bird. And having an uncle in the U.K. and some family in Italy too I know many other contries allow people to incorperate. But in the USA the benefits you get for being a "partner" of the Governemnt are amazing (as someone who might create jobs and also spends a lot on inventory, supplies, etc). Anyway, good luck!
Slashdot: Self-help for Nerds. Stuff that Matters.
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
I am now going through the change process that
.
is being talked about.
I was a sysadmin and Oracle DBA until Oct, 2001
when I got laid off as a contractor at Boeing.
This is just as well because I saw the work ease
up even before 9/11. It really should have happened
sooner. .
Starting in about 1994 to 1995, I took up the
hobby of sewing my own clothes. I found it
exteremely relaxing and therapeutic. I could
come in with a headache after a stressful day
at work. Six hours of sewing later, the headache
would be gone and I would be relaxed.
Now that I am trying to make a business out of it,
I have found myself less stressed.
Granted, the income is not yet as great as that
of a sysadmin/oracle dba.
But there is also no pager/cell phone to wake
me at 2 am or ruin a Christmas dinner. I have
far fewer headaches.
I am making something that someone can hold in
their hands. Some of the things I make can be
considered heirlooms.
Mark
Cleara
First, let me apologize in advance for the rant that will follow. It is kind of hard to say this stuff without sounding like an elitist f*ckwad. I do not intend to come off this way. And I tie this into the current topic at the end, so bear with me. Without further ado...
...er, [insert some tv actress' name here]. I also noticed that with one exception, the more television a friend of mine watched, the more likely they were to favor a war in Iraq. I found that particularly troubling.
...well what do you think you'd be doing if it was on?
In 1996 I doused my television with lighter fluid and did you-know-what. I really only expected to not be chained to it anymore but its effects got a lot more profound than that; around 2001 I actually began to have thoughts of my own that I couldn't trace to any marketing effort.
Further, we're social things, we humans. We float ideas we develop past them and find out what sticks and what doesn't and respond accordingly. But who are our "friends" these days? Friends, that's who. Granted, not entirely. And for some more than others. But who do you see more of -- your flesh-and-blood friends or actors? The question is rhetorical so answer honestly after thinking about it for a few minutes.
I bring this last point up because with this whole Iraq war looming, for example, I realized I was forming my own opinions instead of abrogating this responsibility to the television. I no longer had a group of electronic friends that would keep my thinking corraled within the bounds of "acceptable," whether that be Dan Rather or
Does this seems silly? Like I'm off the deep end? How many of your ideas of right and wrong coincide with how television would present it? Is this a coincidence? Is it also a coincidence that our media-drenched society is also significantly out of touch with the entire rest of the world and observably so (if you bother to look, anyway).
To borrow a page from Adbusters, go sit in front of your TV but don't turn it on. Sit there for an hour looking at it. If the first idea through your head is "that's nonsense, I'm not going to do nothing for a whole hour"
So to answer the question of this post, "What Should [You] Do With Your Life?" I don't know. That's up to you. But don't get the answer from a book, regardless of how well it is written. If you're looking to a book to answer that question for you, I would suggest you have bigger issues.
Thanks for reading this far.
My
Limekiller
And hey, it is definitely something I do.
The NYT had an excellent and quite humourous review that is worth reading.
I was computer geek in high school (in the 1970's) My first job was programming, but I always had creative interests as well (music drawing.) I dropped out of college a few times to play in bands, but when my wife got pregnant, I finished my degree and joined the workforce full time. I spent seven years in Silicon Valley and was successful, but unfulfilled.
I decided to go back to school at night and learn animation (this was circa 1990) I got very lucky and hooked up with some very talented people. We sold a concept to a network. I quit my job on the sheer faith that things would work out... and they did. The show went to pilot then to series and I have been successfully employed in animation ever since.
The hardest part was quitting the day job. It's a nice and comfy to have a steady job, but you have to take risks to get anything worthwhile.
What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Two chicks at once.
I just finished this one and recommend it to anyone that just doesn't feel a fit with what they do. Maybe you've always wanted to go off and do social work or help the environment, but are afraid of taking a pay cut. Maybe you've wanted to pursue a dream job, but think you're too old, or are afraid of going back to school and being an entry-level peon again. This book talks about these types of questions. Of course there aren't any answers. You can easily come out encouraged, but more confused than ever.
While I agree with the reviewer's comment about there being a lot of tech/MBA types in the book, there are a few exceptions. Some worked their way up from nothing. Also, many of the people have found their calling, but many others are still drifting. Some spent years looking confident and together, but were really clueless. These stories help ground the book.
Of course if you truely love your work and have no doubt or urge to question it, then this probably isn't for you. Otherwise, it's a good read.
Read What Color is your Parachute, this is a great book! I was working at a Kinko's(a certain amount of irony there), anyway a guy would come in all of the time get resumes copied. After he had spent weeks fruitlessly jobhunting, I lent him a copy of this book, a couple weeks later he returned it and told me he had decided to start his own business, and that the book had really helped him. It's a good read, focusing on both how to get a job, and make sure that the job you get is a job you'll want to keep.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Most of us have had to modify our dreams a bit, due to reality. I don't think I'll ever be Buckaroo Banzai, I have to settle for being a jammin' sysadmin.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
right now i work for a company that i don't really like. so what do i do? i work like i'm paid... not much and not often. i'm supposed to be a programmer. so i spend about 5 hours a day programming, at most. the rest is spent on surfing, chatting, and learning about linux. now that our project is done, i am the one handling the questions from our client. that's 3 hours worth. after that, i just surf, chat, and learn linux.
it doesn't really reach my dream of living off the land, and becoming a teacher for open-minded college kids... or becoming a porn star. but at least it's money in the bank for not much effort. that's what i do at the moment. but i don't plan on doing that forever. within this year, i'm leaving... definitely.
I believe that many people are truly stuck in their current jobs because they don't have the savings or support to make the leap. Hence, most of the success stories you read are about those people who sold their company, or had a high income previously, simply because those are the people who were able to make the leap.
I remember hearing on NPR that part of this guy's advice was to ignore the common notion that you should earn a lot of money and THEN do what you want. Seems a little hypocritical for so many of his examples of success to be people who did exactly that...
I'm currently a Senior Computer Science major, and I'm really starting to dislike the idea of coding for a living. I mean, I love coding, but not with deadlines.
This review sorta hit home. I'm not a 'careerist,' I just want to get a comfortable, low stress job that can support my wife and kids. I don't think that's possible, since I'd like to be a network admin.
There are some days where I'd give it all up to work the night shift at a seven-eleven, But I know the money just isn't there.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
you'd better come right down and do it all over again...
I've been coding professionally for ten years. I am "successful" in my career. But I've found my day job unfulfilling for years, and as a musician I often wonder if I should follow my heart elsewhere. I imagine I'm not the only Slashdot reader who fits this description."
I have 3 months until I no longer have to deal with IT as a career again. Everytime I see these half-ass Tech School commercials on the local cable, I titter with dementia. "A fulfilling career in which you can go places!" What-fucking-ever. 9 years after stupidly volunteering for training on AIX, I am getting my terminal degree and heading to the promised land -- academia -- to do what I have always dream of.
It is difficult to express how jaded I am with the tech industry and to be honest my feelings really have little to do with my peers (who work their asses off and get no credit) but with PHBs and, most of all, users. Just before typing this post, I got off the phone with a woman who bypassed the helpdesk and sussed out (somehow) that I was the person responsible for a part of our web services platform. Of course, the problem had nothing to do with what I was responsible for. She was using an old version of IE which didn't support something in the interface. If she had called the helpdesk, she would have been told the same thing by a person who would have known instantly what the problem was. It took me 30 minutes (read $15 of taxpayer money) to figure this out simply because I am not familiar with the problem. Why did she bypass the helpdesk? Well, they cut a ticket on each call and track users and their recurring problems. In other words, they do their jobs. I asked why this was a problem. "They don't like to talk to me." A quick search shows hundreds of calls in the past year from this person. I told her that my help was a one time shot and she needed to call the helpdesk from now on. She got all pissed and said "No. Now I have a man on the inside." Fuck that. Found her supervisor and put her ass on notice. I am tired of being a bitch to people who couldn't fuck their way out of a wet paper bag.
I know. My mistake was helping her in the first place, but do you just stomp past the reception desk at the emergency room and demand that a doctor fix your hangnail? No.
So I am going to do something interesting that doesn't pay shit and is low-tech and let's me hide for 3 months of the year -- college professor.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
As a psych undergrad, I've read everyone of Frankl's books for my research. It's a shame that current psychology doesn't wish to listen to him. If you want the executive summary of his "third school of vienesse psychology": logotherapy, it goes something like this. Freud (and by some extention, Skinner) was all about the "will to pleasure" - the first school. Man's primary source of modivation for behavior is the pursuit of pleasure. The second school was Alder with a "will to power". Man's drive was to have power over himself, others, enviroment, etc. Frankl's third school was the "will to meaning". Humanity's most driving need and modivation has to do with finding meaning - and a person will manifest certian kinds of mental symptoms, pathologies and psychosis with out it.
That's the summary - discuss amongst yourselves. It's no unification theory or psych or perfect, but very interesting and instantly applicable. I know it might sound like a bunch of psychobabble, but it is an interesting debate. Frankl's assertions come from his treatment of tuboculosis patients in concentration camps. Those who had a reason to survive, more often did. Those who felt they had no reason to go on, always died first.
The most notable point here (and a possible reason it's ignored) is this concept effectively turns Maslow's triangle upside down. Essentially, a person will not breathe, unless they have a reson to.
Democrats and Republicans only disagree about how to enslave you
I first heard about Po Bronson's What Should I Do With My Life? here on Slashdot
Wait, isn't Slashdot a web site?
I seem to have touched a raw nerve. Sorry!
You thought he was a jerk, and with good reason: He was telling you his own view of what success is.
No he wasn't. He didn't tell me what "successful" meant, only that, according to his own criteria for success, he was successful, and screw what anyone else thought. He also told me that I didn't understand myself, and he was right about that.
The whole point of my post was that, you have to make your own criteria for success. Don't get confused by what your co-workers, or your mom, or your friends think.
It seems to me that this book, like most North Americans, equates happiness with a good life. This is ridiculous. Happiness is a by-product, perhaps, of a good life, but it is not the goal.
The goal is truth. What does it matter if you live your whole life a successful Hedonist and then it turns out that the theists were right - maybe you end up in hell for eternity, what does your 'happy' little century mean then? Most people don't care about truth because the truth can be harsh, or even worse, downright confusing.
But then, so can 'happiness'. No one is ever happy all the time, and many people who live at least peaceful lives turn 90 and decide they were never really satisfied. Why? They lack truth. They lack meaning. The job doesn't satisfy. Well jeez, maybe another job will fulfill me...
One can drown out the need to have a meaning for existence in many different things, but they all culminate in a single concept - self-deception. Yes, that's right, we're just one big, deluded nation.
I've got a million silicon slices in front of me and a thousand fantasies at my fingertips - yay for the reality of ignorance. It truly is bliss.
There are certainly no silver bullets here.
I think the essence of dissatisfaction with one's life is being dishonest with yourself. Do you really love the work you're doing?
Learn the telltale signs of self-deception: Where do you really end up spending your time? Step back and examine your own body language when you say things like "I enjoy my job" or "I'm happy with my life." What really gives you that warm feeling inside? Follow your gut.
Most of all: are you saying and doing what you believe, or are you saying and doing what you want people to believe of you?
Everyone must assess themselves in their own way. And everyone must come up with their own solution in their own way.
There are no silver bullets, period.
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
All my years immmersed in computers and technology have dulled all my other interests to the point that I can't remember what I was interested in before. Don't get me wrong, I'm a geek through and through - one conversation with me will confirm it - but I'm sick of computers.
I'd leave IT in a heartbeat, if only I could find a passion. "A reason to wake up," that'd be nice.
Now, don't get me wrong, IT was the right choice at the time. It was a passion, not a monetary decision. I'm not sure where I lost that zeal, or for what reason, but it's gone now. I'm the only one that's noticed so far, but I'm sure it can't be long before others do.
I've been considering getting out for over a year now. All I need is an interest. That's all I need.
Too bad I can't find one.
if you do not passionately believe programming is the coolest thing you could possibly do, change something as fast as possible.
excellence is its own reward. i'm a puritan, my purpose in life is to glorify God. God is not glorified by my performing duties in a desultory fashion.
When i have felt no joy in programming, i worked for a company whose name started with "Rapist." At that time I considered a career change. Happily, I got an employer upgrade and the joy returned.
Hi,
/. - seeing how half of the comments are something like 'get a life'.
It takes some courage being so open about your thoughts on
I'm going through a similar process - I've come a bit further, perhaps. This is my experience so far:
1. Put yourself in a position where you can do it. Eg. get rid of financial burdens like debt etc (or have a sneaky plan ready...)
2. The hard part, of course, is figuring out what you REALLY REALLY want to spend your time on. The way to find out is by trying things. I've found out that I absolutely love China - so in due course I'll move there. Yes, really.
3. And, just in case: don't burn all bridges behind you. What makes you happy now, may not make you happy 30 years from now.
"You should go home and rethink your life"
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
I think a major fallacy that the author of this review (and many other people) make is that the purpose of a job or career is to make you happy or "fulfilled." We've been so inundated with messages of "Do what you love" that if we find ourselves in a job that's less than enjoyable for one minute we seem to think we've done something wrong.
A job is not meant to give us personal fulfillment. It is meant to give us money. Where you find personal fulfillment is entirely up to you--whether that be in your hobbies, your romantic life, or your own pet projects. Given, some people do find fulfillment in their jobs, but honestly, I'd much rather have a menial job that I can leave at the office, than a job so all-consuming that I have time for nothing else in my life.
Only when a job truly does make your life measurably worse instead of better--and only you can be the judge of that--should it be considered "the wrong job." Leaving a perfectly good job for no reason other than it's "unfulfilling" seems, well, fatuous, to me.
Ah Yes, the 70s return. I remember reading the "Bluing of America" in the New Republic or someplace. The gist was: If the children of the privileged are going to drop out and ponder their navels then many of the children of the blue-collared are going work hard in school and life and fill the vacancies they leave (and vote Republican--Alarm, Alarm). That was me. Rising out of nowhere; Getting a good technical education; Making a more than decent living; Finding love above my appointed station; Having joy in my children (who now wryly ponder their navels, consider dropping out, and vote Democratic--Alarm, Alarm). I never once asked, "Is this all meaningful?" or even missed asking the question. The exuberance of the journey up was enough.
Or gay.
When I first saw this, I read, "What should I do with my wife...." Oh, hell: it just isn't funny.
The Political Programmer
He was a successful low-earning gardener who never tries to doo anything better.
I'm a successful slacker who lives in my mom's basement. Hopefully I wont do too well at my job interview next week, or I wont even have that.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
The grass is always greener over the septic tank...
Why does life have to be totally one thing or another? I like my day job, but that doesn't stop me from consulting as a side business. Maybe someday I'll have enough clients to leave my day job permanently.
Whatever you do, do what you love.
-ted
I thought it was an "Ask Slashdot" question!
you know... its completely possible he owned three successful high tech companies and decided his 500 million in net worth entitled him to do a bit of gardening. that's the problem with making assumptions based on appearences.
just bring it to an end...
I think this is the answer, for the best and the brightest (who can switch to something completely new and succeed at it... because face it, if you fail to make a living in your chosen field, you won't be happy).
Oh, and if you even *know* what you love... believe it or not, that's pretty damned hard for most people. I started coding because I needed some money, not because I'd enjoyed my coding experiences so far. Now that I know what I'm doing, I get a lot of respect, I successfully solve most of the problems I tackle, and I get to work on problems that I feel keep my brain sharp. THAT'S what I'm happy with.
I have plenty of friends who are in grad school in various subjects, who are seriously worried that they won't be happy in their chosen fields, since they aren't fulfilled in their studies. Hey, why would they be? They're still just learning, which can feel kind of hollow after a while because you aren't accomplishing anything that affects the "real world".
Besides, where do "dreams" come from? It's what we *think* will make us happy. Most people don't really have a clue what will make them happy, and they don't realize that until they've fought for 30 years to achieve the dream, only to find out that the TV (or that uncle who seemed so cool, or the idealistic teacher at school) was wrong....
I say, figure out what you need (some money for food, etc.), then try something. Anything that will achieve at least the minimum. Then try to change the things you don't like. If you can't, try something else.
If you're going to try something that will take a long time (i.e., you need to go to school for 6 years first), get in the environment first and see if you like it. Knowledge! Experience! Etc....
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
you know... its completely possible he owned three successful high tech companies and decided his 500 million in net worth entitled him to do a bit of gardening. that's the problem with making assumptions based on appearences.
I can see that the point of my story is lost on some people. Oh well...
This had to be said.
- http://www.adminspotting.org/I went through pretty much the same experience that the reviewer had in terms of being introduced to What Should I Do With My Life? Read the article linked from Slashdot, bought the book, listened to the NPR review.
Some posters seem to think it's a career advice book, but I think that's an oversimplification that Bronson dismisses early on. It's a collection of stories about how various people figured out (or, more often, tried to figure out) what they really wanted to do with their time. It's not a book about parceling your time or a set of tips on how to kiss up to your manager.
Bronson's stories are charming, and although I agree that he infused the book with a little too much of his own experience, those stories were never so flat that I wanted to skip them. I particularly enjoyed the story about the good 'ole boy that jumped out of the consulting-to-Big-Oil business not just to try something different, but the complete opposite of what he had been doing. The absurdity of the whole process was also humorously revealed in the story of the guy that figured out while interviewing with Bronson what he really ought to do: "I want to help people...play better golf!"
I found this book at a time when I needed some reminding of what I thought my purpose was. I just started graduate school last fall and, as it seems nearly everyone does, got to the point why I wondered why the hell I was going through the academic motions all over again. All my other friends had moved on to something new, and here I was in the same old grind.
I had forgotten that I had come to graduate school to study a topic that I'd dreamed about pursuing (polar glaciology, not exactly something you can just pick up) for several years. It was virtually the only thing that got me really jazzed as an undergraduate so when the opportunity arose to get into it, I jumped at it.
But then all the other grad school stuff kicked in, and it didn't seem like such a good use of 6 years anymore. Bronson's book helped me refocus on why came to do what I'm doing. A friend said that if I had to read the book to remind myself why I was in grad school, then I must not be doing what I really want to do. But I think if she read the book, she'd realize (as I eventually did) that your "calling" is, as Bronson concludes, a glimmer that can oscillate. It's almost never an epiphany, instead it's a trend towards what you really want to do.
I watch TV and (gasp!) have independent thoughts. All things in moderation.
If he's good (or bad) at it, he might even get a spot as a designer on Trading Spaces or While You Were Out. Wouldn't make him less gay(appearing) but it would be a cool gig.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
...but you HAVE to make your way in this world. There's no getting out of it. You can join the military or a religious/cult commune, but otherwise you've got to pay your way.
You'll figure it out, and you'll do better than you think. You'll also find it's not so bad, and that you're not alone.
Good luck and...welcome to the real world!
; )
**>>BELCH
Or at least instantly recognized and just as quickly ignored as irrelevant to the topic.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
> Do what you love.
I don't get it. Doing what I love doesn't pay the bills. Going to work does.
Are you suggesting I find a job that I like? Easier said than done. Although I have a job now, I was previously unemployed for the past year. Out of hundreds of resumes sent out (to legitimate places who actually HAD advertisements for openings) I got 3 job offers - computer sales at Best Buy, a minimum wage job swapping tapes for a local TV station, and the job I am working at now. Obviously only one of those is worthwhile to me, but I wouldn't say I LOVE it. Should I have said, "No thank you, I'm waiting for my dream job?"
I think the TV let's you believe you have independent thoughts. I bet if you try you can correlate most of your thoughts to a television character or a marketing effort. I'd help you but I'm in the no commercial TV camp, so I could't identify the characters for you. Ask a friend who also watches your programs to help.
Television, like most media, offers opportunities to learn. Sure, what you watch will be presented with the bias of the creators, but everything is that way: newspapers, historical texts, music...
Insight can guide you if you listen. It's not necessary to pull the shades and stop all your magazine subscriptions to accomplish that. In fact, the more opinions and attitudes you expose yourself to, the better.
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I majored in business in college, worked as a manager type person (account rep) for 6 months, and decided to go into computers. I had always loved 'em, and I was good, so that's what I did. I did that for 6 years. I worked my way up (primarily through hopping to different jobs/projects to get new skills). I got several certifications. I was considered a senior developer at the end of those 6 years (yes, I know that's not long, but with the technologies I was working with, I WAS senior, and I had lots and lots of real hands-on experience. I was making really, really, really good money. Then, abotu a year ago, I said the hell with it and completely changed direction. I threw out all of my experience, certifications, and hell, even thousands of dollars worth of books and did something completely unrelated. But, it did take a good 6 months of sitting on my ass, doing not much of anything other than playing PS2 games, reading, and just generally doing nothing before it hit me. So, it is possible, and it has been done.
Now, I'm just trying to figure out what the next thing is that I'm gonna do when I get sick of doing this.
Nothing like a friend saying, "Hey, I think your job and life sucks, so I thought of you and got you this book."
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
a) what's the point of an college education when you might learn more outside of school? i note your use of quotes around education... but really that just nullifies your statement. don't we always learn? and if so, aren't we always educating ourselves?
b) what's the point of a formal education when you might not get to study exactly what you want? so, i didn't take high school as seriously as i might have. i was a B, B+ student. well that translated into not getting into a school like UCB or MIT where i could've taken a degree that was a little more out there. (i would've preferred an art-computer science hybrid.) i had to settle for a college education that centered more around CS and enrich my life on the side with artistic pursuits.
i got into grad school and dropped out midway through the first semester solely because i could've aced a master's degree but i would've totally missed out on becoming a master of what i really love.
c) and in a result of that, i now find myself with and degree in computer engineering, but no easy way to pursue a degree in art or any of these new art-computer degrees that have been around for the last few years. i have too much XP for a bachelors program, but not quite enough paper to back up my readiness for a masters. sometimes having that slip of paper is a hinderance.
of course, these are just mistakes and lessons i've learned... (which, the lessons could be mistakes on their own.)
m.
[rant]
They never talk about the people that follow their dreams and fail spectacularly.
Ever notice how the people that do these things usually have a nest egg to fall back on? Poor rich people that are so bored with their jobs, boo fucking hoo.
People like that rarely grew up poor. I grew up poor (well, Canadian poor, which is not nearly as bad as, for example, Mexican poor) and I worked my ass off to get my "demeaning, wage slave" job - it's a fuck of a lot better than scrubbing toilets and working graveyard shifts at a liquor store for a fraction of what I earn now. The last two years since college have been like a fucking vacation compared to the six before it.
I only have to listen to this shit from people that grew up in the US and Canada. Every person I talk to that grew up poor (ie/ from Mexico, the Philipines, etc) is pleased as punch to be working their "wage slave" jobs.
I guess it's easy to wax poetically about the gutter if you have never really lived in it and can always crawl out.
[/rant]
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Well, at least you've got weekends. At my previous job, the management was so crappy that sleep time began to be considered an luxury...
Luck you! :^)
micromoog writes:
" I've read about you."
That's extremely funny, I'm going to send that to everyone I know. I sometimes feel like I harp on it too much (especially lately) but unfortunately the fact that I don't own a TV does come up a lot. This is because conversations frequently involve TV references. For example, last night a friend mentioned that his group of friends was sometimes referred to as the "Grey Council." Apparently this is a Deep Space 9 reference, so I had to ask, "what means this 'Grey Council?'"
Even old, old friends of mine seem to forget this too but generally catch themselves right after asking. "Hey, did you see [insert show here]. Oh, wups. Forgot."
"I watch TV and (gasp!) have independent thoughts. All things in moderation."
No, I don't think you do. If you watch TV in moderation then I would argue that you're abrogating your scope of right and wrong, just moderately. Television is a heavily filtered and often commercially influenced medium. Of this much I think we can agree. So what gets filtered? Things that are upsetting, first of all. Advertisers do not want a spot right in the middle of a 20/20 docu-drama on abortion for example. I think we can probably agree there too. So what is the end-result? You are exposed to less "radical" ideas. You're only seeing a slice, a perspective that does not impede your duties as a consumer.
I categorize this as damaging. The "all things in moderation" merely attenuates the damage.
Love the nick.
My
Limekiller
This reminds me of the comic strip "Non Sequitir" (April 5, 1999):
The title is Culture War Update.
A man dressed in conservative business attire is carrying a sign that says "Rebel Against Non-Conformity". Around the corner is an aging hippy type with a sign that says "Conform to Independent Thought."
Studs interviews people about various topics - Race, WWII, Death, The American Dream, etc... He then organizes their responses into narratives of their personal experiences.
He always lets people say what they mean, and no matter how much you disagree with what they say, you'll come away with respect for the subject's dignity. He's not exploitive like many of today's writers
"Will the Circle Be Unbroken" is Terkel's latest book, and it's all about death, yet it's not depressing. It's a great read.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
I think I am in the same boat as the reviewer in some ways. I have been a programmer in the corporate world for about 10 years now and have pretty much burnt out. Deep down I imagine I still enjoy coding, but it's just so hard to dras my ass into this place every day now. I even find myself getting bitter when I see other programmers reading technical books on the train. I wish I was still that interested.
So what the hell am I getting at here. I guess the one complaint about the book is that it portrays many people who are financiall well off changing course in their life. But most of us are really just getting by. Basically my position is I have a job I don't really care for in an environment I would never choose but I am stuck because I have to pay for a house in a suburb I don't really like and my wife actively hates just so my kids can go to safe schools so that they can someday get a crappy job like mine. Meanwhile I am worried about my oldest girl because middle school is coming up and that is just hell especially in the consumer oriented suburb where I live. And though I am no luddite and not a right winger nor religious, those are not my values in the end.
Enough about my problems. Seems to me like a discussion of what a Regular Guy(tm) would do to change course in his and his family's life would be of interest. Let me share with you the plan that has been brooding in my brain for a few months here.
First, I have been wanting to home school the kids for some time. If you figure that my kids spend 6 hours per day in school but get 1/30th the teachers attention, then what are they doing with the other 5 hours and 48 minutes. Waiting. But then there is the 1 and a half hours of homework. Seems like I am already home schooling. The rest is baby sitting.
So if I home school, I eliminate the need to live someplace lame because of the schools. Now I can buy a cheap house. I am thinking of someplace out in a somewhat rural area near a halfway decent small city, hopefully with a decent university. I choose a rural location because I would like to have a decent garden and greenhouse so I need a little more land.
Selling my expensive house means I can get out of debt (including my car) and still have enough for a down payment on the cheap house. Buying the cheap house means I don't have to make $100K at some corporate whore-house. Hopefully this will mean both me and the wife can just work part-time which will leave time for the home schooling.
Of course this plan is full of holes still. I am concerned about the kids having enough friends, so I don't want to move to the middle of nowhere. Any suggestions from folks here about good locations that fit my description, or decent ways to pick up part time work? Much appreciated.
Honestly it's going to take some major thinking before you can actually find out what you want to do for the rest of your working life. Find something that you like to do... such as being a musician, and do it on a part time basis, completly volounteer or something similar. Then if you like it, go ahead and give it a try as more than just a volounteer...
:/
Find something you enjoy doing, with variety, and you'll never work a day in your life... Same old same old, but finding it and doing it is the hard part.
I wish you luck though
You should ask slashdot what linux distro you should run? By the time all the anti M$, anti-this distro comments are played out you'll be dead anyway.
Since most of the follow-ups seem to be against you, I thought I'd post some support. There are actually a lot of us out there that don't have televisions. Most of my friends don't. And those that do very rarely turn it on. I think the last program I saw was about six months ago. It's not only about independent thought. It's also about wasting your life. I just can't imagine in the instant before my death with my life flashing before my eyes thinking "I wish I'd watched more TV".
Devon
Don't just think about yourself; what career to have or how much money to make. Help others.
I've been programming for 25 years, Fortran thru Java, and there are times when it's total garbage and other times when it is really fun. (Mostly the former, sigh).
Anyhow, in my non-job time, I work with and teach kids and I have a wonderful time. Of course, there are moments when I want to run off screaming down the hall. But there are other times when I so touched by them that my vision blurs. They are so precious.
There's my kids also and raising them with my wife is the biggest and best challenge of my life.
I'm a geek, socially maladroit and introverted but once I stopped focusing only on myself and only my "needs", that's when even greater things happened.
I know I sound like a infomercial, but this is how it happened to me. You don't have to do only one thing or spend all your time on your job. Reach out and volunteer. If your job is that fascist that they won't let you have any personal time, quit. You're a clever person...especially if you're a developer ;-). You'll find something else.
The point is to sacrifice for others and you'll find that you're way happier than if you worry about the great me, regardless of your day job.
Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them? --Abraham Lincoln
....they changed my life dramatically.
Check these books out along with with limekiller4's suggestion in the Topic "I Don't Know, But I'm Sure the Book Doesn't Either".
As the 'other' Canadian Rock Power Trio (Triumph) says..."Follow your heart".
Good Luck!
Dolemite
Save the World! Use a Quote!
Posted anonymously after the thread is old for obvious reasons...
I skipped the second half of college to get a job in the computer industry. Made some cash. Dated a lingerie model. Two-timed her with a stage actress. Lost them both because of it. Did some work in software. Went to Hawaii, Europe. Market crashed. Found work in system administration and some teaching. I still think about the girl in my college English lit class, staff writer for the school magazine, all around wonderful girl... She's in NY now, tells me about her boyfriend occasionally, writes once in a while.
I have a wife and kid. Wife is beautiful, intelligent. Kid is wonderful. I still think about that girl in English lit, but less every day. High point of my day yesterday was watching my little girl pick up a keyboard and walk with it across the room.
Vague unhapiness. I used to write, paint, play guitar. I write SQL reports, backup, rewind tapes. There's little satisfaction in that.
One thing I've learned: do it. Seize the day, approach the girl, live your life. Money didn't make me happy, and I once had a lot. Not Bill Gates money, but plenty. Take classes, lots of them, and not the stuff you need for the major but things you enjoy -- art, literature, math (oh, mathematics is beautiful).
I ditched the admin job this past weekend. I have $38 in my account at the moment, blew the rest on stuff I can't recall. But I'm happy now -- watching my daughter stack Lego, walk across the room, smile.
I can see that the point of my story is lost on some people. Oh well...
:)
Not lost here. You want to know why it's lost to most people? Because they are a mirror of yourself at the time. They just don't get it.
When I first read the headline "What should I do with my life" I thought it was an Ask Slashdot posting...that would be pretty funny.
NR
Along the same lines of what you were saying about having electronic friends on TV and everything, one of my friends made an interesting observation a couple of years ago. We were talking about how when we would meet someone, our first impression of them (mostly based on looks) was that they were lot younger than they really were. We had both noticed this with many different people that we had met while in college.
He had the theory that this was directly related to watching a lot of TV. He pointed out that on TV the highschoolers are played by actors and actresses that are close to 30 years old in many cases. Since those are the people we see the most (sadly) it was skewing our perception of the real world.
I've always thought that was an interesting observation and it's right along the lines of what you were saying here. Our virtual tv friends have more influence on our lives than the real life people we know.
Not too long ago I went to one of Jerry Seinfeld's shows and he opened up with "Well, here we are together again. It's your weird little TV friend!"
How can you be so sure that leading a materialistic life is a trivial way to live your life. What makes you so right and those who are materialistic so wrong?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I have a TV but rarely watch anything but movies and the discovery channel. My question is where do you get your news to form opinions about issues you have no direct contact with? Any news site you see are going to biased to some extent.
I bring this last point up because with this whole Iraq war looming, for example, I realized I was forming my own opinions instead of abrogating this responsibility to the television.
Were they really your own opinions or just those of a different source of information?
I know many people who cashed in their chips and made the brave and bold move to start up their own business, and nearly all of them failed. --I know a LOT of people who ended up in debt up to their ears, out of business and out of luck less than two years later. The banks tell us that statistically, only 1 in 5 business start-ups go anywhere. This is the truth.
HOWEVER. . . This does not mean that following one's dream is a bad idea. In fact, I happen to believe that it is the ONLY idea worth investing in, and that it can't go wrong so long as you are true to yourself. --You've heard that before, but let's think about it. .
You see, there are commonalities to all of the stories of failure, and they are, Too Little Planning and Too Much Wishful Thinking. The results are poor execution, and then failure. This cannot be overstated! --It is entirely true that if you follow your heart, you cannot fail. But many, many people don't follow their hearts. They follow illusions.
I have been amazed at the number of times I have watched a friend or acquaintance make a stupendously awful business decision, and when I gently suggest a way to correct the problem, I am barked at for, "Being Mean," for "Attacking my Dream," for, "Undermining my Positive Thinking." Etc, etc.
Yes, it is a million times more comfortable to pretend that Everything Is Alright, than it is to acknowledge that one has made an error in judgment and to then fix that error, but if you conduct yourself in such a delusional manner, you can be pretty much guaranteed to be on the skids 2 years later. This seems obvious, but clearly it is a huge issue. (1 in 5. .
When people ask my advice on starting one's own company, I stress 2 things.
In any case, though, you can sort of see why people get upset with me. Living in illusion is a helluva lot more comfy than facing these kinds of truths. But that's life; it's hard and it's unforgiving to those who refuse to look at things in an honest light. If you can't deal with that, then go back to selling burgers and quit complaining. --By contrast, however, when you DO start looking at the hard questions and when you DO start working to solve those problems in a diligent manner, then the Universe will start doling out luck and opportunities galore. I'm not kidding one little bit. Once you stop chasing illusions and determine the true nature of your path, then the Universe falls in love with you and will help you along. The Universe loves those who are willing to self-examine and strive for self-improvement. The reason for this is that the Universe knows just how devastatingly difficult this is to actually do, it knows how hard it is to earn the skills required to participate in a field in a meaningful way, and it rewards people accordingly.
The other thing to keep in mind, (and this one is golden!), is that dreams are easily transferable from one industry to another, and that aiming to acquire one stream of income is not the only or the best model for success.
For example, let's say you want to be a musician; you want to sing and write music for a living. Well, there are many, many ways to write music and sing which entirely by-pass the whole Top 40, going on tour, strutting on stage, big music label, route. There are, in fact, many unexplored ways to make music and also pay the bills. Music is a valued commodity, and there are many aspects to it which require skilled people in many different fields, in many different mediums.
Just because you happen to, say, end up as a technical producer at a recording studio, doesn't mean that you can't also write and record your own songs, etc. You might be able to book free time at the studio you work in. You might be able to take a summer off and play at pubs and sell your CD. You might meet other musicians and share ideas. Heck, perhaps you'll go the other way and discover that you find joy in repairing and building guitars and selling hand-crafted instruments. There are a million ways to build a fulfilling career. It's vital to remember that it's okay to not be on the cover of Rolling Stone. --Of course, if your heart is set on being a famous musician, if that is where the lodestone of your soul directs you without mercy, then chances are, if you play it smart and do your homework, then yes, you probably WILL end up on the cover of Rolling Stone. But most people's lodestones do not point that way, and those people need to be honest and listen more carefully to themselves in order to learn what will make them happy in the long run.
Just a few thoughts to consider.
-Fantastic Lad
I just have an OK job, but it gives me the time and the money I need to do really satisfying stuff (photography, right now, and the usual reading of novels). I have a good boyfriend (not the traditional family, thank you), and we can travel once a year. I don't think that I could work a horrible horrible job just for the time and money, but sometimes a small upgrade to an acceptable OK job is all you need.
I'm halfway through this book now, and Po struggled with the class issues a little himself. He wondered if the whole question isn't a little bourgeois. He discovered that that isn't the case - lower and middle class people struggle with the same questions.
Maybe a person with more money has more options, but more options does not necessarily make a decision easier, either.
Also: in general, people tend to spend what they make. The guy who makes $200k might be just as leveraged and stuck as a guy who makes $30k. OK, he drives a cooler car, but does that, in itself, make him less noble?
"Art is great, but be prepared to be a pauper if you're going to try to make a living at it. If you can deal with complete and utter poverty, go for it. For me, it just wasn't worth it."
This is the thing I've always wondered. Rememeber every time broadband and the RIAA is discussed on Slashdot. There's that group that *assumes* that Musicians will make their living and pay off bills from whatever money comes in from fans downloading, and concerts. However I can't help but wonder when this "utopia" is implimented, how many musicians will end up with beans, and couch. Finding out that "starving artist" is still true, and "charityware", like the real thing only works for a few, and the majority suffer. A social experiment with real consequences, suggested by those who don't have to suffer the immediate consequences. A job with non-easily lifted expertise (your consultancy) will still be the way to go, for those who don't wish to be the guinea pigs in other people's "experiments".
I'm not about to make some great change in my life, but I picked up this book anyway because the description on the origininal slashdot article made me curious. And I will say I thought it was a good read, although many of the subjects of the book were already successful and considering the risk of throwing it all away, and almost every one of them was extraordinary (else they wouldn't have made an interesting story).
;)
I'd say I probilby had the opposite reaction to what most people had to the book however. Before I read it I was a little ticked at my job (especially employers). While I was reading the book I've become a lot more satisfied. It's not that I do something great (I'm a mapping and information systems consultant for local governments), it just made me think about the world, and my place in it. I think I appreciate the day to day journey of life a lot more after some serious consideration.
Now if we could only get someone to explain relationships with the opposite sex in a manner that would make me more satisified with my current situation, I'm sure we'd have an all time best seller!
Everyone always has their own opinion on what people should do with their lives. Why don't people come up with a list of things you don't want to do with your life? For example: 1. Drink yourself into poverty and die in a gutter. 2. End up in prison sharing a cell with Bart the gay axe murderer. Get old. Die. Spend eternity in hell(a.k.a. Behind a help[less] desk.) 3. Wind up a Microsoft Employee.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
I can see that the point of my story is lost on some people. Oh well...
Just some. Wish I had mod points at this time.
-silent
"Do what you love" is a tad too simplistic and I've always had a problem when given this kind of advice. If I followed this advice to the letter, I'd be on the couch watching NFL Sunday Ticket 8 hours a day.
As the review points out, most people don't have a huge inspirational impetus to go one way or the other. In other words, they don't inherently "love" to do anything (or at least, nothing you can spend a lifetime doing). At best they have a glimmer in a general direction.
>For example, last night a friend mentioned that his group of friends was sometimes referred to as the "Grey Council." Apparently this is a Deep Space 9 reference, so I had to ask, "what means this 'Grey Council?'"
It's Babylon 5, which is actually excellent.
I don't watch TV either, generally, but it has made excellent background noise for sewing/knitting. (On certain channels -- Iron Chef is very funny, for example) Now that I've gotten the David Sederis box set, I'm back off my DVD's for a while.
>If you watch TV in moderation then I would argue that you're abrogating your scope of right and wrong, just moderately.
I don't think this follows at all, given that one FILTERS what they're watching, and doesn't just plop down in front of whatever's on. Oh, and PBS is not likely as influenced by advertisers as you seem to imply. To put it mildly.
Television can be enertainment. It is also not one's only source of information, generally. Radio. Newspapers. Magazines. Online. It all adds up. It's simply necessary, unfortunately, to be very aware of the particular biases of the producer, no matter the media.
Lea
Perhaps you're making the assumption that TV is a mutually exclusive source of information. By both watching TV in moderation and reading underground, "radical" material, I see both perspectives. Therefore I know what most Americans experience and what's bad about it. More information is always better than less information. By setting the arbitrary rule "all TV is bad", you're artificially constraining yourself. The rule "TV should be taken with a very large grain of salt" is, I think, more appropriate.
What you're suggesting is that TV is a constant, uncontrollable, and dangerous influence . . . the same could be argued about just about anything outside the home. I hear people say things I consider "wrong" on a regular basis, but that doesn't affect what I see as the truth.
The three states of the universe are BE, DO, and HAVE (in that order).
People (especially kids) are often asked "What do you want to BE (when you grow up)?" And the kid, for the most part, has no real idea.
So then they are asked "What do you want to DO?" But they still don't know.
The reason is the flow goes from BE to DO to HAVE and not the other way around.
You must first ask "What do you want/need to HAVE?" When you get an answer, "What do you want/need to DO in order to HAVE?" Finally, "What do you want/need to BE in order to DO?
This is done just as easily with yourself as it is with a child. Try it out sometime if you feel life isn't all it could be.
I knew someone - and Indian, who had a Ph.D from MIT and who worked in NASA JPL and a few other fancy places - and who had a few patents to his name, who settled down in India to become a missionary. He later applied for work as a project manager in a small software company in India. How do I know? I was the guy who had to turn down his application because he was just too over qualified for the job..
But I do admire the man for this strength of conviction...and his family who seemed to share the same conviction.
I am sure there a lot of people who have chucked very promising careers for starting on a life in a distant place doing things they love because of this overwhelming conviction they have.
Skip Bronson's book, and instead read Marsha Sinetar's Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow and To Build the Life You Want, Create the Work You Love. They tell stories of real people struggling to find happiness with their "right livelihood." Some succeed, some fail.
Bronson's book didn't need to be written, except as a money-making project. Sinetar already said what you need to know.
I'd mod you back up myself cause I have mod points.. But I already posted in this thread.
you.
I think the thing that irritates me the most about these types of discussions is the insistance that there is this "perfect job" out there, or the "perfect friends", or whatever, and "if only you can find that..." We have completely externalized the idea of happiness and insist that it has to be "out there somewhere". Rather than enjoying life, we're so busy searching for it.
What I've found is that the only true path to happiness is to love yourself. Unconditionally. This is the only starting point we can go from. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, sure, no one's perfect, but we have to believe in ourselves because the world sure as hell isn't going to do that for us. That's not anyone else's job. It's our own.
Think about it. If everything in your life is taken away from you, what have you got left? Just yourself. And that has to be the most important thing. There are all sorts of support structures in life: a good job, friends, family, you name it. But if you simply can't exist without these, then you're allowing your life to be held up at the expense of these supports, without paying any attention to the foundation (you!).
There is no Question. There is only a collection of confused souls floundering about in the vastness of the world, searching for a Meaning that they themselves created!
Be happy with yourself. Do what you need to do to make money, but understand that YOU are the answer. Have a beer with some buddies from time to time, find a place to relax, get yourself moving whenever you start pondering "The Question"! (God, I hate that phrase...) Because, unfortunately, there is no Answer.
In case you're wondering, I'm working in the IT field at the moment, but I can still have fun from time to time. Life is not just fun times, anyway, it's difficulty and stress thrown in there as well. To tell the truth, I think I'd feel a bit strange if it was any other way.
The major difference, I think, between those people who are satisfied with their lives and those that aren't is a matter of personal philosophy and personality. Sometimes it's a good idea to hang around with coworkers who seem to "have it all together", not only to see that it can be done, but also to realize the humanity of these so-called "gods".
We're all in this game of life together. I, for my part, intend to have a good time ;)
Work sucks, that's why they pay you to do it!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Of course, if you read The Millionaire Next Door you will see that the authors of that book define rich in a "better" way IMHO - they define it as the amount of time one could sustain one's style of living without any income source. So, if the dude who makes $200k a year blows $195 a year on stuff, then he is quite poor, actually.
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Patience. "Lord Bitman", a 15-year old's internet moniker if I ever heard one, will probably look back on this conversation and cringe himself one day, if he remembers it.
Slight correction: If you make $200K you should have security and comfort. But if you make $200K a year and spend $200K each year, then you have no more security than the guy who makes $33K a year and spends $33K a year. Wealth is not about what you make, it's about the delta between what you make and what you spend.
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
My thinking is 1. decide what the f**k you want and 2. write it down and 3. make it happen.
r t.htm
Discovering what you want is the hardest part.
It sounds corny but write down what you want 15 times every day. It'll keep you focused and attuned to opportunitues.
I learned this from Scott Adams. Here's a link: http://www.bobjanuary.com/bj_scans/readings/dilbe
Another post telling us to kill our TVs on Slashdot. How original.
In any case as most of the other replies have mentioned, it's quite simple to watch TV and still have independent thoughts. Any time I watch a news show it is usually spent rebutting the points that (Bush|Hannity|etc) are making. It's also quite possible to watch TV and not be a slave to it. My strategy to avoid this is simple: If nothing is on, don't watch it. I have a few shows which I watch religiously (by taping and watching on my own time), and aside from that do not watch much TV. In the evening I tend to do more "surfing", but again, if nothing is on I will move on to something else.
As an aside, just because you're not watching TV doesn't mean you're making independent thoughts. Just by reading Slashdot you are influenced. It is not possible to make independent thoughts in this world.
Weak-minded people will always let other people write their opinions. This has happened before TV, and it will happen after TV.
That's tripe. I bet if we really wanted to we could take any of your thoughts and relate them to marketing or TV personalities. Just because that relationship exists does not mean that the marketing or TV personality CAUSED that belief or thought.
Except that I overheard this conversation in physics 101 back in the day:
"Well look at him, he's teaching this class." (Implying that being a physics professor in a dinky college was the worst possible job for someone with his qualifications)
to which I heartily responded:
"Yeah, and he's clearly doing *exactly* what he loves to do. That's a good definition of success in my book."
He promptly shut up.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Very few were geeks, or even grunt-level office 9-to-5'ers
s Cool.
.05 hours earlier if you save that $15!
NO surprise there. The reality that modern work is soul-sucking and life-destroying is no secret. Not to those who made these life-changes described in the book -- and not to you or I.
The fact that in the US you must work for the man _or_ be poor (hungry) is no surprise. The trouble is that this failed ethos, to participate in an economy of mindless consumption instead of leading a fulfilling life is being exported by the US. This culture of workaholics seeks to undermine the desire for people to live a healthy, rewarding existence. In some places, reasonable material wealth is an acceptable state, one that provides shelter food and drink is all I require. But the compulsion by my peers, the expectation of the boss that i would make his corporate goals the centre of my life makes my soft/slow/subtle dissent very dangerous. If you refuse overtime your a slacker. Face time is everything. Work Work Work.
Psychotropic drugs aside, its no wonder people are shaking Modern-America(TM) off like Wet-On-A-Dog... only to find themselves disoriented and asking this question "what do i want to do with my life." I guarantee its not work 60hours a week to buy an SUV and sport the LatestAthleticFootwearBecauseTheSomaMachineSaysIt
All in all, this sounds loooong overdue. The fact that the protagonists are navel-gazing socialite-plutocrats leaving the reviewer alienated is even more telling.
and to anyone who wants to read this book: GET IT AT THE LIBRARY! Less pollution, cheaper -- you'll get to retire
I haven't seen your face around since I was a kid.
Your bringing back those memories of the things that we did.
Hanging around, climbing trees pretending to fly.
Do'yer wanna be a spaceman, and live in the sky?
You got how many bills to pay and how many kids?
And you forgot about the things that we did.
The town where we're living has made you a man.
And all of your dreams are washed away in the sand.
It's alright.
It's alright.
Who are you and me to say what's wrong and what's right.
Do you still feel like me?
Sit down here and we shall see.
We can talk and find common ground.
And we can just forget about feeling down.
We can just forget about life in this town.
What happened to your dreams man when your growing old.
You don't wanna be a spaceman, you just want the gold.
All the dream-stealers are lying in wait.
But if you wanna be a spaceman it's still not to late.
It's alright.
It's alright.
Who are you and me to say what's wrong and what's right.
Do you still feel like me?
Sit down here and we shall see.
We can talk and find common ground.
And we can just forget about feeling down.
We can just forget about life in this town
>
Well I don't think you sound like and overly elitist fucktard, but I would like to remind you that t.v is just another source of information, and can be used as a tool to help form your own opinion. It can be a powerful medium as well as there's motion and sound, which at times is much more affective than print. Of course you don't believe it just because it's on TV, but you don't disbelieve it because it is either. People who are brainwased by TV will probably be brainwased by lots of things.
yes, you can be anything - if you are willing to pay the price to achieve it.
You don't even have to be especially smart for it - just VERY VERY persistent.
I know someone who took five years to get into veterinary school, and even more to finish it, because she was not rich and not especially bright, but she was very very persistent.
It also helps to know what kind of price you need to pay - what kind of sacrifices you are expected to make, and what does failure mean if it does not pan out.
It's also really important to know who can help you in your quest, and what can harm you.
of course if you are a realist you already know this. For the rest of the people there are always books like this.
"I just have no sympathy for whiny, rich people who are desperate to "find themselves,""
That person is doing what they think is best for their situation. Which is, they've worked hard for something (and perhaps had some luck on their side), and now they find that after all they've put into it.. it's just not what they expected, nor is it what they enjoy. Money doesn't buy happyness after all.
Then someone like you comes along, with the money does buy happyness meme firmly entrenched. Yes, from your point of view, those people are assholes. They're doing something you think you wouldn't do in your situation. You are blinded by your own views of events.
You can't know someone until you've walked in their shoes. You seem to believe that regardless of how shitty or good a job may be, the pay will make up for it. I can't really make a comment on that, because I'm not you. You can't really make a comment on someone's decision to change jobs, because you're not them.
I left a programming job where I made ~$16,740 USD for a sales job where I make ~$5,952 USD a year gross. The programming job was not fullfilling. I've learned that if the only reason you're in a job is for the money, you've become a whore.
But that was my experience. That you disagree with that does not invalidate it. Your entire post seems like sour grapes to me. If I had mod points, I'd set you -1, jealous whine.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I find it ironic how most people here are complaining about their lives from 9-5. In my case, its after 5 that sucks. I've apparently sold my 20's.
:)
I lived in New Orleans until I was 21. I always had great friends and a respectable social life. By the time I was a junior in college, I got antsy about the whole "what should I do with my life?" thing we are taught to care about. As a result of some freelance work, I got a job offer in Southern California doing web work. It seemed like a way out of the south and into a career.
I accepted the job, took merely a suitcase and a computer and about $400.00, said goodbye to friends and family, and drove to the west coast. I worked my ass off for the next couple of years, and by the time I was 23, I had tripled my salary.
Fast forward to today. I'm barely 25, I've been at a semi-successful tech startup for three years now, and I make alot of money. But recently, after visiting New Orleans and meeting alot of fun people and having a great time, I realized that my job and a small stack of money are all I have back here in Orange County. I've been so career-oriented, I never noticed that I don't actually like or fit into Southern California (socially anyway).
Now at age 25, I have to decide if I want to cling to the career and salary I've worked hard for, or throw it all away and move somewhere that I can actually procure a social life.
Broke and social versus wealthy and secluded.
So anyways, my advice to you is to look not only at your day job, but what you have outside of that. I love my job, but I was happier before I had it.
liberals are in charge of the media and entertainment industry, thus your argument is flawed when you say the more tv your friend watched, the more in favor he was.
If anything, actresses and media outlets such as cnn cast war on iraq in negative light.
You would know this if you actually watched TV.
Oh wait. I thought that said "What Should I Do With My Wife."
Carry on, nothing to see here.
- I love animals. I try to eat at least one a day.
>This is the thing I've always wondered. Rememeber every time broadband and the RIAA is
:)
>discussed on Slashdot. There's that group that *assumes* that Musicians will make their living
>and pay off bills from whatever money comes in from fans downloading, and concerts.
It's not much of a stretch. That's actually how it works now, and how it's worked...well, forever.
Very few musicians actually make their living from recorded music anyway. For every one of them getting a large enough royalty check to pay the rent, there are hundreds slogging it out in clubs and sessions.
> However I can't help but wonder when this "utopia" is implimented, how many musicians
> will end up with beans, and couch.
End up? That's where a vast majority of them already are. If you think "average artist" means Metallica or Janis Ian or anyone else you've heard of, you're committing a gross sampling error.
> Finding out that "starving artist" is still true, and "charityware", like the real thing only
> works for a few, and the majority suffer. A social experiment with real consequences,
> suggested by those who don't have to suffer the immediate consequences.
Again, sampling error.
Most working musicians are playing other people's music. Charityware - or any other structure for selling recordings - isn't going to do anything for them, because they have no original music.
For the segment that is creating original music, the technology has a lot of promise. The equipment exists to record a quality demo in an apartment, and distributing it to a large audience is relatively simple.
That sounds good, but there's a problem: Most working musicians aren't geeks. They might have a computer for email and web browsing, but they have no idea how to publish their material. They're selling CDs at shows and hoping for a record contract; Going it alone isn't even on their radar screens.
> A job with non-easily lifted expertise (your consultancy) will still be the way to go, for
> those who don't wish to be the guinea pigs in other people's "experiments".
I don't know if that has much to do with it. Artists are a strange bunch. They don't appear to mind living with five other guys in a studio apartment, eating Ramen six days a week. They're ready to whore themselves to a record company at the drop of a hat; If there's a chance to "make it" via another path, I seriously doubt they'll turn it down.
If you grow up knowing nothing but how painfully short on being able to fullfill your needs, let alone wants, then your definition of personal success is probably a job where you can earn money which lets you take care of needs and wants.
I'm happy living in basement suites, not owning a car, etc. I grew up in Canada on Welfare. This seems to meet your criteria, right? But I left a programming job for a sales job (and had my pay cut by 2/3rds) because I wasn't happy in the job.
Once you get past fulfilling your needs, and your wants (to an extent), and really look around.. you see that there are other nice goals you can set out to achieve. These goals are different for everyone. Maybe your goal is to make $200,000 USD a year. Mine isn't. You don't have any right or reason to say your position is any more or less valid than mine, you only have the right to respect my decisions.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Meet with a financial advisor, do your research, read David Chilton's "The Wealthy Barber," come up with a plan, put away 10%, pay yourself first, and set your sights on leaving the workforce forever! The sooner, the better!
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Read this:
n In quiry.asp?userid=2X928S5V5B&isbn=1573221112&it m=1
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isb
This is good example of what people call "common wisdom". Hard to argue with because everyone that has an opinion generally holds this to be true.
If you only live for yourself, and only make decisions on how those decisions will affect you, then you are an arrogant, selfish prick.
On the flip side, if you only make decisions based on how it will affect others around you, with no care for your own happiness, then you are a depressed, unhappy sot.
Off the cuff, flippant advice is just that. There is rarely a decision that only takes your personal view into account that ends up being a good one.
This book seems interesting, but still leaves much to be said. Apparantly raises more questions than it answers. The following book worked really well for my wife and I, give it a review:
The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
when i graduated from college in 1993 i was hired by a startup who saw my potential and also my gullability. i was used for two years to bootstrap this firm to stunning success. their stuff is running in 500+ sites across the US and probably will be in thousands within the next few years. in appreciation for making them rich they threw me out like a piece of garbage about one month before they went to market. i'm sure many programmers have stories like mine.
i drifted between jobs and became more bitter with passing time. then it struck me. looking back over a half dozen IS jobs i STILL loved that first job in spite of what happened. the thrill of being part of something that mattered. i decided to do it again, except this time for myself.
a friend with similar ideas came to me, we founded a company on jan 1, 2000. i am still in the midst of a deathmarch to escape the "daily grind". there are now 5 partners and we jointly own two companies with very rich IP and NO outside investment in either (nor will there probably ever be any). Our model company is SAS, a multibillion dollar privately owned meatgrinder. We survived 3 years together and there is no doubt one of these companies will hit critical mass, probably within months. "Critical mass" is defined as all of us going full time. Once this happens we have the contacts to assure very rapid growth.
it was not without sacrifice. i had to jettison any semblance of a social life outside the partnership. no wife, no girlfriend, no kids, nothing. we worked like whores the whole time. i have a massive investment in time, having taken it on like a second full time job. every waking minute of my life has been sucked away for 3 years straight. i feel old. sometimes i get depressed and feel like the hole i've dug is so deep when i look up i can barely see the sun. we will survive and flourish, i have no doubt. but was it worth it? i guess time will tell.
the morale: if you want to escape be prepared to pay for it. And don't be surprised if you're left wondering whether the price of "success" is too high.
I remember someone told me once that they don't think hell is fire and brimstone, but rather a place where you are not happy, and yet you will work your hardest to stay there.
Sounds similar to the lives a lot of people live. They are unhappy, but darn it, they will not leave their jobs or try to change things.
~ kjrose
Don't take this the wrong way -- I liked your anecdote -- but I tended to think that *you* missed the point of your story. You were young, had a lot of ideas pressed into you about what you should do, and it was impossible for anyone to convince you otherwise, regardless of how hard they tried to ram it down their throat. They just plain needed experience to come to their own conclusions. Now, here *you* are trying to do exactly what the gardener did...which didn't work. Lord Bitman isn't going to change his mind without experience, I suspect.
May we never see th
Uh, the book doesn't try to tell you. It is about asking the question, and people's experiences in trying to answer the question. You'd be less of a doofus if when you tried to self-agrandize by spouting off ostensibly profound statements if you had half an idea what was in the book you are criticizing.
To be crystal clear: as a bunch of flames here have pointed out, Po has his head up his ass, and his self-involvement and provincalism make the book almost unreadable in places. But the criticism you have raised has nothing to do with this book.
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
because I really like it.
My wife has to drag me away from the computer most nights.
What about those of us in the tech industry who do it because we really like it, and the money and perks are just a side benefit?
It sounds like everyone in the high tech industry is doing something they hate for a few extra bucks.
A quick word of advice to add to the review: this is not Studs Terkel's Working, this is not a lot of randomly assembled vignettes into jobs -- read the book in order. If, like me, you're inclined to cherry-pick excerpts from things that look like anthologies, don't. It's not several dozen little unconnected stories, they're actually arranged in an order to make a point. If you read them out of order, you often miss the point he was getting to. He also will make an analogy in one story (the "inner table" for example) and then refer to it subsequently, without further explanation. Read it like a novel.
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
"What do you want to do With Your LIFE ??!"
"I WANNA ROCK!"
*boom*
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
FWIW, I've been doing that for the last 11 years, and I've decided it's got to end. It's a schizophrenic existence, and I find, because my "hobbies" also require a high level of commitment and administrative/management skill, that there is a tug-of-war between them for my energy. I can only put up with so much administrative bullshit in a day, which is going to get it: my job or my volunteer work?
I find I'm mentally in a place where I want my life to "hang together" better. I don't want to have to shift so much between work-mode and play-mode.
And this is part of the value of the book under discussion: it talks about the difference between expecting your job to be fun or entertaining (on one hand) and expecting your job to be satisfying and meaningful (on the other).
I'm not looking for a job that's "fun", but I need to do work the value of which is not solely in that it funds things which are of value to me. I need, increasingly, my work to feel like it makes a positive contribution to my community/world.
To bring this home a little: I'm a web dev. I've worked on a lot of corporate brochure-ware web sites. I feel proud of the quality of my work, and the value I gave for the money I way paid -- as a good craftsman will. But that's not enough any more. I now do web dev for a edu non-profit, which is better, I suppose, but also still not enough.
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Say you live in rural Montana/Nevada/Idaho, and you'd really like to go live in New York City.
Does the fact you want to escape somewhere you find boring mean you have 'unresolved issues'?
A lot of people DO try to escape from situations where they have issues, but the simple fact of moving doesn't mean you're bitter and twisted. You need to move about to be a balanced person.
To borrow a page from Adbusters, go sit in front of your TV but don't turn it on. Sit there for an hour looking at it. If the first idea through your head is "that's nonsense, I'm not going to do nothing for a whole hour" ...well what do you think you'd be doing if it was on?
You could say the same thing about a blank sheet of paper and a book.
Have girlfriends but do not get married before your life has gelled.
For most people this is good advice, as shown by the amount of young marriages that fail.
But.. isn't it a bit pointless having girlfriends when you know you don't want to marry/settle down with any of them? At that point it just becomes 'all about the sex' which is pretty lame.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Partnering with a childfree female is a decent option - you get to split living costs, and there's a high probability that she, like you, will be cash flow positive. That'll put both of you on track to early retirement sooner than either of you could have hacked it by yourselves.
This is true. Most of my friends really didn't start getting ahead until they got married. The reason is two incomes, and one set of living expenses. It was only then that they were able to save enough for a downpayment on a house, etc. These are professionals, too, people with good educations and good jobs, who are generally frugal and not flashy.
If you have to pay for your own education and deal with the cost of living in a major city, it's likely that even with a good job (lawyer, engineer, etc.), you won't be able to buy a house until your mid to late 30s. And even that is with working your ass off, making some smart investments, and wheeling and dealing a little. The people who really make out are the ones who manage to buy a house in a neighborhood that magically improves, and they double their money in 5 years or so. Real estate appreciation is still how most people get ahead in America.
The fact is that most young people (35) who are living a flashier lifestyle are are still subsidized by parental wealth in some way. They either got their educations paid for so they have no college debt, they got money to put into their houses, or, they spend themselves silly because they know, in the back of their minds, that an inheritance will ultimately save their sorry broke ass when they're 50 or 60. Usually it's all three of these things. I know plenty of people living this way too.
Haven't read the book, but I have read an excerpt. I am inspired neither to buy the book or go out in search of my soulmate job for the following reasons:
I find it disturbing that the "right job" wieghs so heavily in Po's personal fulfillment mythos.
Sure, it is super to have the right job if that is what you are looking for, but apparently we are supposed to make an avocation of everything.
Better living through a better job. This is Chicken soup for the IT bust victim's soul. Bah.
Alright, it is a crime of omission, and I won't begrudge anyone for wanting a more fulfilling job. But bear in mind that if you do not buy into this idea, it comes across as sentimental and simplistic parable.
If a person takes a job for which he or she is overqualified, then the likelihood that he will be "happy" in that position, making less than he did previously, having less responsibility and fewer challenges, is very small. Also, there is a tendency to think that this person is just looking for a temporary solution until a better job comes along.
I understand this on some level, but then I also feel like a potential employer has no business second-guessing my motivations. If I apply for the job, and I am qualified, interview me. Ask me what me intentions are, and trust me to tell you honestly. It doesn't do me any good to lie my way into a job I don't want.
If I tell you I want the job and intend to stick around for a timeframe that matches your requirements, you have no business deciding that I don't really want it for me.
I really think a lot of hiring managers just accept the "an overqualified candidate will never work out long term" argument as fact and operate on that basis.
If you are applying for a job for which you are over qualified you might consider addressing that in your cover letter-- but it might be hard to do that without tripping the arrogance alarm.
Doing something you like, or at least don't mind too much, for a living can give you the better of both worlds.
Consider it in the same vein as that wild unpredictable fiery dark haired girl who was intoxicating for a week, but seemed to morph instead into that undependable unsympathetic angry dark haired girl after closer contact...
I read this book. I got an advanced copy from the writer at a time when I was trying to figure out what to do with my life. The thing I took away from this was not what to do, but what to ask myself when figuring out what to do. I thought he presented this well, grouping the book in sections like "Does WHERE I live affect me?" or "does WHAT I do affect me?" or "Does my PAST affect me?"
Let's face it, all of these sorts of things do in some way or another affect our choices and our subsequent happiness, and I think this book presents cases where people realized what was most important or most influential in their lives and quest for happiness. I equate the "what should I do with my life?" question with the quest for happiness because most of us want our lives to be happy - but we think we have to DO something to get that. Po deals with this in his book, too, and is why he thinks we're stuck on this "what we DO defines us" merry-go-round. America is the land where you can be happy!! But how do you go about doing that?
Obviously the answer is "be who you are" but there are so many things that distract us from that - peer pressures, societal pressures to be educated, rich, etc., environmental pressures (where we work, live, etc).
I think reading this book gives a sampling of certain things to examine and answer for ourselves in our own lives. Yeah, the details don't necessarily match, but the concepts are worth exploring.
And yes, I read this bit by bit and this helped I think.
-A female reader
Yeah, these make great soundbites, the stories of people who spend years foolishly getting rich on lucrative but unsatisfying jobs and eventually decide to cash in and do something moer worthwhile. What annoys me, though, is that Bronson and the media following his story seem to have no interest in those of us who never went astray in the first place. Bronson rhapsodizes over a disillusioned investment banker who "downsizes" by buying eighty acres of farmland - how many people who've spent their lives as, say, teachers or writers can afford that? And what happened to the family farmer who used to own that land - d'ya suppose maybe he lost it to a BANKER somewhere along the line?
And then there's Bronson's trucker who quit the venal, awful music law business to spend more time with his kid...well, good for him, but I know dozens of actual creative musicians who had to ditch their dreams because of venal, awful music lawyers like the trucker admits he used to be. Many of them would LOVE to be able to afford the tuition to go to trucker school.
I'm all in favor of people reconsidering their values, and it's never too late to turn around. But the homeless shelter where I live is full of unemployed teachers, professors, network administrators, graphic designers who followed their consciences all their lives. So my admiration for people who waste half their lives getting rich enough to finally do something REAL is, shall we say, limited.
I was forming my own opinions instead of abrogating this responsibility to the television.
At one point in my life, I found myself crossing myself. I'm not Catholic, or even close to that. It just happened to be what some fictional characters did. The fact is, though, they weren't TV characters; they were literary characters. It would have been even easier to pick up those traits if they were real people.
Sure, if you isolate yourself from all outside influence, you won't pick up traits from that influence. You also won't pick up entertainment or information. And this goes for all forms of influence. One of the big reasons you're anti-war in Iraq is probably because your influences are anti-war. If you still watched no TV, but read the National Review and Veterans Today and went to the meetings of your local milita group, who thought Iraq would be excellent for training, you too could believe full heartedly in the war.
Anyone considering this book should really pick a copy of "Getting Past OK: A straightforward guide to a fantastic life" by Richard Brodie. I have found it to be by far the best book of the genre.
If you think that having all that claptrap in the first place makes someone lucky, then of course you don't get it. If you beleive that being wealthy means that you have a good life, then no wonder you don't have sympathy for people in that situation. Besides which, if you think that living on $50K (gross) requires "survival skills," you're in the same absurdly wealthy class as those earning $200K, relative to that 99.999% of humanity you talk about.
Let me tell you something. Money ain't shit. Once you've got enough for food, shelter and education, there's no correlation between having more and being happier. Really. None. There are two obvious conclusions to be drawn from this:
If you're awake the lesson of this book isn't "The wealthy occasionally choose to be a little less wealthy. How noble." but "Sometimes people realize that money isn't making them happy. Once you get this, you can spend your like taking care of yourself instead of chasing the Almighty Dollar."
Look at it this way: Maybe the reason you hear about whiny rich people chucking it all to "find themselves" is because they needed to have wealth before they could stop and look at it and realize that it wasn't worth going for after all. As long as you think that you're not wealthy enough yet, you can maintain the illusion that maybe the next dollar will be the one to make you happy. Someone (like you) can look at those who have $200K and figure "Hey, they must have it good. I'm jealous."
Now, you've got three choices as I see it. You can live the rest of your life not making $200K/year, but being jealous of those who do. That's just pathetic. Or, you can figure out what you have to do to make $200K/year yourself. That's a waste of your life, but at least you're not stewing with impotent envy. Or, you can realize now that having that kind of money isn't worth anything, take pity on people who've wasted their precious life on aquiring it, and put your life into something worthwhile. What'll it be?
Maybe here?
If you are more than 15 years old what did you do before the net.
Yes, but completely paying your own way is not a great option, either. My boyfriend is paying for school himself. Once you're taking a lot of senior-level classes and still trying to work 20 hours a week, it can be hard to keep your motivation to stay in school, and to find the time to do well in your classes.
Personally, I'm in the parents-paying-for-college camp, and I appreciate it greatly. But as I've grown older, they've let me know that I have to shoulder some of the burden myself, and all of the burden once this year is over. So I'm scrambling to graduate this May, keep my work-study job, find a permanent job, and stay sane. I guess if it wasn't for my sanity requirement, I'd be able to do it all, too.
On the other hand... I wish my parents had saved up more for their retirement. My dad retired about a year ago, and now money has gotten very tight. (My mom's been out of work for years.) I feel like I have to get a good job as soon as possible so I can start supporting my parents in return for all they've done for me (I'm an only child).
Have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum?
TV leads to pro-war sentiment? Well that's an oddity. The TV media has been dominated by liberals for decades who are hostile toward anything that a Republican president has sought to do. Maybe TV is more informative than it used to be. I don't watch TV but a few times a year, and I am strongly in favor of reigning in the Butcher of Baghdad.
What is your sample size of friends? You might just live in some liberal part of the country.
Clearly I'm too tired. I definitely looked at that title and thought it was an 'Ask Slashdot'. Of course, with the latest string of Ask Slashdot articles, that wouldn't be that surprising :)
Karma: pi (Mostly due to circular reasoning in posts).
Your post could have almost been one of mine, if I hadn't become a Buddhist a few years ago. We're not talking hand clapping lotus-sitting Buddhism here, but just the ideology, philosophy and outlook (theoretically Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion). It hasn't fixed everything, but it's made me see things in a more pleasant light than ever before.
That said, I'm still a bit of a procrastinator, and my ascetic ways mean I'm a bit short of things to do other than my normal work.
I'd like to travel, but I can't seem to think of anywhere I'd really want to go (or, rather, could afford).
Still, life must go on, and we'll get somewhere eventually. Look on the bright side.. most of the unfortunate people in the gutter aren't there because they tried hard and made good decisions.
Seek happiness, not pleasure, in every way, and things will improve.
mogorific carpentry experiments
as a matter of fact, I've managed to pay my house off in 11 years (last May) after pushing my finances and paying every extra bit I could when I could.
The stress in IT sucks... and lately it has gotten much worse. But, as it stands now, I manage to bank at least $1K/month. I've got enough in the bank to be able to be unemployed for a year (or more, if I count being able to go on unemployment if/when I get canned).
I always joke that my goal is to quit and buy a wood lathe and make furniture for a living. But, reality sinks in... I would like to be able to retire early, and the more I can save now the better off I will be in the future. I recently bumped my 401K up to the (new this year) 25% max, and I'm still living comfortably.
A lot of people don't have it so good.. I think of that often when I think about leaving (more often lately). Reality is, though, that after the first month or so I'd probably be going stir-crazy from not working.
Life is full of sorrow, hardships and eventually death. Be sure to understand that everyday so that you may appreciate life as it is, a flower, a hug, a friendly word.
You are flamebait. First off, you're sexist, second off, 10-15 year age gap is pretty wierd. How are you supposed to relate to someone who was already in college when you started kindergarten?
I'm not going to bother with the rest of that, sorry troll.
Which is why I love Google News. Oh sure, the news is as biased as anywhere, but it draws from so many sources all around the world! There's nothing quite like seeing the subtle differences in bias between 70 news sites covering the same small set of actual facts. It's brilliant.
And that's the other thing -- there really are very, very few facts in the news. Low bandwidth, high redundancy. So it's very easy to be just as well-informed, or more so, as someone who watches the TV news, without doing so. And you don't have so much brainwashing. To really drive this point home, do what I did -- get bored and decide to spend a lot of time refreshing Google News, hoping for something new to happen. News moves slow and has few facts.
My deviantArt site
Kudos. This could very well be the best post in this thread. I wish I had something to add, but I doubt I can top what you already wrote.
So to sum up...
1- Education
2- Career
3- Profit!
4- Disolusionment
5- Change career for Hobie/Easy Life
What the Hell is this book about??? Sounds like its a roadmap to the obvious..
Mabidex
I just started reading a biography of Miles Davis. He came from a pretty well to do family and his parents payed for his music lessons when he was little. By the time he was 16 he was able to get jobs playing with some local bands and he made something like $80/week. This was in 1940s.
When he came to New York he went to Juliard (his father paid the tuition), but after a while he got better education and was able to make a living playing trumpet in various jazz clubs around NY.
So, he was able to make a living before even making a single record. But then he was Miles Davis and was quite dedicated to playing jazz. He never had to starve.
...richie - It is a good day to code.
SLACK! We must have more SLACK!
More power to th' overthruster! More power to th' ov-er-thrus-ter! BUCKAROO!
I wont hazzard a guess on the percentage of Us that took programming jobs and considered them a natural step in our techy journey. But I do imagine this percentage is high due to one major factor, it was an easy route to integrate ourselves with society. Plainly it was easy...But it may have led us into something although honorable not our forte. However, I have found tech so versatile, I have a dual major in Biology/Computert Science and I did not end up in Biotech research but in the entertainment industry facilitating broadcast production: DB management, DRM, DAM, VoD, et cetera. My point is that you can almost always use the disciplines learned from CompScience to advance many other fields. Go ahead, try something new and add your Techy twist!
I can realte to this stuff. I've been in the IT field for nearly 20 years and it's all starting to look very much the same these days.
Last year I decided to go back to uni and study counselling (psychotherapy) and you know what? I love it! Not only that but I find I'm very good at it. So in another year I'll start working on te side of my day job (a software development manager at world's #2 defense company) then go full time. On average maybe I'll earn half the wage (and no, I don't have much cash or a house paid off or anything like that as I got separated a few years back and lost it all mostly). If I do well maybe eventually I'll earn what I do now (in 5-10 years time).
The thing for me (and I stress, as others here have, that this is for me) the money isn't the goal. In fact I've gone from being a big time planner and strategist for my life to realising that happiness isn't a goal I'm trying to reach, but something I do on the way. Now I am sooo much happier than I was 5 years ago, only then I didn't think I was unhappy!!
It seems to me a lot of people get into computers because they're really smart, it's interesting (to many people) and you can (although perhaps, less importantly at first) make good money. The downfall I see with the people I work with is that relating to a computer all day is not good experience for relating to people. It doesn't mean geeks don't have skills at relating, just that they don't practice it as much as in many other professions.
There are many other jobs (not in the hard sciences) that need smart people. I'm often staggered by how smart some people are in occupations I wouldn't expect at first thought, like plumbers, cleaners, farmers, clerics (not the D&D sort!), etc etc. And from my anecdotal evidence it seems the smarter people in these jobs do very well, so you're not "wasting yourself" on a lowly job.
But are you happy? Does you partner (if you want one) an an equal, honest, loving basis based on trust and openness? Are you proud of who you are and what you do? Do you really know that your answers to these questions is right? Personally I know I don't have the answers, but I do know that moving forwards will always be part of the answers, as well as daring to challenge my own narrow thinking and that I've willing adopted from the world.
my two cents
pithy comment
The project I was on wasn't going to ship. It was very close to being useful with only bug shaking out needing to be done. But if it wasn't going to ship in October, it wasn't going to ship in November, and wasn't going to ship in December.. well, it wasn't going to ship.
;)), and never see C#, Java, or other languages I used to deal with daily.
.. anal retentive about things. A great example of bad geeks were a pair who swore up and down that PC gaming beat out console gaming. Even with the patches, higher upgrade costs, fewer genres, fewer titles, and generally equivalent game costs. Their main argument was that if you didn't have the time to spend each day grooming your PC and OS setup (around 1-2 hours), you weren't fit to PC game in general.
:-/ Hot plug modules, self-configurablity, easy security and access restrictions, etc, none exist in any current operating system to the degree that they should. For some reason, the world seems locked in a 1995 mind set, with only new incremental features being added -- no major changes that make computers more useful as tools. And I don't have the time to sit and coddle them like I used to.
I would spend about 10 hours/day, M-F, out of my house, at work, staring at a computer screen. I interacted with maybe 4 people. Because I don't have a car, my time out at a mall or with people would be limited to past 18:00 W-F. Essentially, I would work at work, come home, be too tired to do more than play some light video games and have supper, then sleep.
When it started getting to the point where the moment I left work on Friday, I was already dreading Monday morning, I knew something had to change. I mean, the work was fun. But everyday, week after week, and showing no final product because the core programmer kept refactoring was really disheartening. I have programming projects at home I didn't touch during that period, because I was so sick of code by the end of the day.
Plus, the technology itself just isn't mature enough for me. Standards of many interfaces still vary so much between systems; standards are rarely properly adhered to. Code development tools, while neat (stepping debugging, etc), still lack features that I consider good. VS.net lets you collapse code, for example. But it won't let you jump at a function definiton to all calls to that function (even though it'll do the reverse).
Then I was offered a job at a video game store. Knowing my video games and history, being sociable, goal oriented, and familiar with business practices was enough to get my foot in the door without them even seeing a resume. I gave notice at my old job, documented everything (more so than I had) so that it'd be easier to give to someone else, and walked away.
I may not be making as much money, but my schedule varies; I'm in a mall downtown so I can get errands done. I see many people each day, and educate them about various things. Some of them are regulars who like to keep on top of things, some of them are casual shoppers. Some are even plain shop lifters. The flexibility and social nature of the job appeal to me.
Programming is probably going to remain a hobby for me in future. I am able to sit down, design, write, and test programs, but I don't find it rewarding like I used to. Writting small scripts and such in HLLs for my own use is great (the more the machine does for me, the better). But I'll probably not write much C code anymore (except maybe helping debug some OSS app I use, or if I finally finish writing a NES emulator
I'm thinking that teaching human languages might be a good goal in 10 years. It's social, human language study is a mature science, and the language arts majors tend to be less
Personally, I just want something that works as expected. That's why I'll probably start buy a Mac the next time I need a new PC (again, after 6 years of DIY white boxes + Slackware). I just don't have the personal patience to sit down and install, setup, and debug every application (this applies to Windows programs too). With things like books, game consoles, microwaves, or TVs, things are boolean in terms of working. Computers aren't
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
[o]_O
I'll be 33 this year, married with a son, living in southern Solano county, CA. We own our house. Right after college- about 10 years ago, I worked at a non-profit doing health outreach. Then off to law school where I realized it wasn't really my thing. Then getting a social studies teaching credential while substitute teaching until I realized I'd go crazy in a room full of teenagers. Then it was two years in a stock brokerage where I couldn't really relate with their mentality. Now, I'm with the county processing medicaid (Medi-Cal in California) application and so far so good. I'm in my cubicle, all day aside from when I met with my clients. My supervisor doesn't bother me as long as I meet my quota and didn't screw up too much. Maybe in a while I'll go get a Masters in Social Work. I'm also involved in leftist political movements throughout this time. I guess just try different things and figure out what you like to do without being completely bored- a trend here is that I'm realizing I really like doing social services and I hope, will probably be in it for a while.
That the problem is you, not your users.
Develop some peace of mind. Give yourself the space you need to act like a compassionate human being. Then maybe everyone will stop being so stupid.
But it's not them who will have changed.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
i have considered doing some sort of liberal arts degree and just free wheeling my way into classes i want to take....
universities vary on how they handle that... but options are there. you are right.
i was just making the connection that sometimes it's wiser to pull out before you've finished a degree because many universities make it easier for you to change your major and change course than to finish a course and go for another.
if i could do it again, i probably would've double majored.
but oh well.
thanks for the idea,
m.
http://www.pataphysics-lab.com
You on the other hand, probably won't ever do the same. But that's got nothing to do wiith age, you just seem like an idiot.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
There is a huge difference between living a life that you enjoy and living a life that is satisfying. You can enjoy every minute of every day, 'living life to its fullest', and yet still, somehow, have this vague feeling that its unfulfilling. Over the longer term, you need more than just "doing what you love". I love programming, but even with a great programming job that I thoroughly enjoyed, I still had a sense of "emptiness" and lack of deeper satisfaction. If doing what you love is enough to satisfy you over the longer term, then thats fine, but its not as simple for everyone. I felt I needed more than my perfect, comfortable, cushy, enjoyable life was providing. I'm happier now I've started using my free time and programming skills on a project which could potentially help uplift millions of people in the (third world) country I live in.
The way I see it, there are at least two different "levels" of "happiness": one being a "day-to-day" happy (i.e. doing what you love on a day-to-day basis), and the other being a longer-term (months/years/decades) overall happiness/satisfaction: doing what makes your life feel more worthwhile. I guess finding the former is usually easier than finding the latter. The fact that I love programming provides me with a goal for any particular day ("do lots of programming"), but it doesn't give any ideas for a worthy goal for any particular year.
Each to his own though, I suppose.
Now there's a tale of someone passionately following their dreams who really didn't have much to start
with, but has nothing to lose.
Another thing to note is that as you grow, what
you love will change. Pay attention to who you
are, and you will have a better chance of being happy.
The insights from Gail Sheehy's book "New Passage" may be helpful in understanding where the key question comes from, why it matters, it may have to do w/ what developmental stage you're in, in developmental psycholgy's term, people at different age may be concerned w/ different issues, so sometimes a question presented itself but can only be comprehended completely and resolved satifactorily when one has made a successful transition of differnt life "passages" successfully.