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Dragon's Lair 3D Not Worth The Effort
Anonymous Coward writes "While not the best source for gaming information, CNNs Technology section has a review of Ubi Softs Dragon's Lair 3D. Long story short, according to the writer Marc Saltzman, the game isn't worth it. In fact, the opening paragraph says, 'The only thing worse than a lousy video game is when it taints a well-respected, 20-year-old franchise.' One interesting tidbit from the article, the original Dragon's Lair is one of only three video games on display at the Smithsonian. The other two games being Pac-Man and Pong."
Yeah.
Isn't this kinda old news by now.
It is too bad they butcherd it, Dragons Lair was a kick ass game. Oh well, I still have Xcom (the original)
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it - Sir Winston Churchill
My first name is Dirk, so does this mean I'm going to go through ANOTHER round of meeting people for the first time and having them say, "oh, like Dirk the Daring?" Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad for this latest version to flop.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Althought I got stuck pretty far in to the game, I think DL3D is an excellent game keeping true to the original Dragon's Lair.
DL 3D gives the full range of motion the original Dragon's Lair always lacked. D3 3D also keeps up the cartoonyness and originality from the original.
It's definately worth checking out in my opinion. But as the CNN review's opinion differs, it only proves that everyone has their own opinion...
It's not a GNU goat, you imbecile, it's a GNU gnu.
Why is this on Slashdot now? That game has been out a while. I messed with it on XBox. It's the only title that does 1080i HD. The game itself was terrible...though my Dragon's Lair fan friend liked it.
Not even worth an article.....
Shall we define well respected? Dragon's Lair was never a good game, just memorable since it used full animated cartoons and had a story in a time in which no one questioned why the yellow circle eating dots. Dragon's Lair 3D didn't do anything to the legacy in my opinion.
Schnapple
cnn reviewing games? how about they stick to what they're good at and speculate on how this game is going to cause violence in our schools.....of course it will have to air during the 15 minutes out of the day they arent speculating on our coming war with iraq...
/sarcasm
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
In fact my hand still involuntarily twitches in the direction of white flashing lights.
same problem that is making a mess of the video game, sci-fi and fantasy genres, too many damn sequels and remakes.
Considering that by all accounts, it has the same game play as the original, this is hardly a surprise. I remember playing it on the Commodore Amiga. It was a frustrating trial-and-error game that got extremely repetitive very quickly.
...but I could never stay alive long enough to rationalize spending 50 whole cents on it.
I was 8 years old, that was about 1/4 of my weekly income.
I would probably have never checked it out anyway, as I ignored the remakes of Pac Mac, Frogger and Donkey Kong, games which I played often and loved.
Though if someone decides to do a version of Pitfall I may have to sway a bit.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
Game reviews are so subjective I don't know why anyone would put any stock in them.
I could write up a review of the latest version of nethack describing how intense it is and how it sucks you right into the game and eats up hours of your life which would be a bunch of blather to someone who only enjoys FP shooters. Of course that's an exageration to prove my point but you get the idea.
All the best,
--Bob
Dragon's Lair is something that should have stayed in the arcade or your MAME cabinet forever and not have been rehased for the PC.
Syr
GameTab - Game Reviews Database
This reviewer also panned Unreal Tournament.
FWIW.
"The human body's design spec is: A spacesuit for a fish." -Ken MacLeod's 'The Cassini Division'
The game is a sequel. It suffers the same problems that most sequels suffer. What made the original popular was it's originality. Sequels suck because they try to leech off from the originality of the original.
That said. How the hell does one game make a 20 year franchise? Did Dragon's Lair spawn several sequels? If not, then it's a 20 year late sequel.
Real franchises spawn fun sequels...
Black and grey are both shades of white.
Unfortunately, trying to control Dirk is a game in itself. And not a fun one.
Sounds like they've reproduced the all the 'magic' of the original, if you ask me.
While some would argue that any of those isometric-view or 3D Pac Man games from the late eighties and early nineties (Pac Man World, anyone?) "tainted" the original, I'd say even more would just go "huh? Never heard of 'em."
Did Frogger 3D "taint" the original Frogger? IMO, no, it's just pretty much been forgotten. Even better yet, what about Centipede 3D?
Dragon's Lair 3D might be a total waste of time and money for anyone developing or playing it, but that doesn't mean that it detracts from the original (which was pretty much as close to a video game version of "simon says" as you could get, of course. But, ooh, it's on a laserdisc! Eh, whatever...)
Marc Saltzman isn't just a CNN croney, he writes for numerous newspapers (Globe Technology, Toronto Star), writes reviews for Electronic Playground TV Show, written game Design / Review books, and much more. Perhaps you should look beyond the CNN and see who the true author of the article is, you'd be surprised at the content that AOL has on their site and software even though it's branded AOL. Same is true with CNN.
whatever you do don't click the liiiiink
slowly dies of disgust
No GNUs is good GNUs, with Gary... Gnu.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Another I think even better was the video CD game called Cliff Hanger.
Based around a popular anime called Lupin the III, got me interested the anime scene back then when it was still un-known to most americans.
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
Ubi sucks. They butchered Pools of Radiance 2, and they've apparently butchered Dragons Lair 2 also.
I havent bought an Ubi game since PoR, nor do I plan on ever buying another Ubi game again. Ubi is #1 on my personal shit list of game producing companies.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
On a related note, has anyone tried the DVD version of the Dragon's Lair game? Apparently you throw it on the dvd player and control it with the DVD remote control.
the original Dragon's Lair is one of only three video games on display at the Smithsonian. The other two games being Pac-Man and Pong.
. jhtml
Nope. I know at least Sega's Virtua Fighter is also on display. Here's from Sega's website:
The Virtua Fighter series has been recognized by the Smithsonian Institute for its contributions in the field of Art and Entertainment, and is on permanent display at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History in Washington D.C.
Here's a link to the source: http://www.sega.com/segascream/legacy/historyofvf
-- Kircle
You had a weekly income at age 8? Doing what, sewing sweaters for Cathy Lee?
click me
Will there be a Linux version?
Coming soon, to a next generation console near you:
Simon Says 3D!
Possibly even less interactive, and for God's sake, how much Don Bluth animation can our ecosystem possibly SUSTAIN? I may never stop throwing up. . .(/rant)
So, I bet I wouldn't have liked it anyway. :)
You are not the customer.
With an up/down/left/right/menu remote, you've got all the controls available, so in theory it should work quite nicely..
(though I'd still prefer a Cliff Hanger game, even if it had 2 buttons...)
I was incredibly disappointed with Dragon's Lair 3D. Being the first 1080i game released for the Xbox, I was very much looking forward to it. I think I managed to play it for all of about an hour before giving up entirely because it was such a disappointment.
I thought the game was fun, then again, I remember pumping quarters into the original one as well. If not for that, I may not have played it to the end.
There are big bugs in the game, it can be awkward to control, and the sword fighting was easy, just boring after the first couple times.
But in all, it was a fun game - if not just to see Dirk die all sorts of ways!
According to http://www.npd.com Dragon's Lair 3D: Return To The Lair sold around 17K units (xbox ~13K units and pc ~4K units) from November 15th 2002. Which is roughly ~$750K. Game was in development around 5 years and the budget was probably more than $3M. Oh yeah... did I mention that I'm sooooo glad that it failed! :)
I put 50 cents in and played for 15 seconds before I got killed.
I remember thinking I had been totally screwed and never played it again.
They should have set it up so it gave you at least a minute of play.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
The game isn't all that bad, BTW. Worth fishing out of a clearance bin should you find it. Typical 3rd person platform-adventure with enough oldschool charm to get by.
/. maybe devote a new section to articles about reviews of 6 month old video games? I got a cool icon of the retarted kid from South Park you can use for it.
IMO, video game reviews 'arent worth it'. I never agree with them, they're generally either fanboy crap or paid advertisements, and quite frankly I dont need to be told what I like.
Can
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Don Bluth's lifetime of work is some of my favorite stuff and it hurts a little every time I see one of his newer efforts flop. I've not played Dragon Lair 3D myself but general concensis among my friends seems to be on par with this review.
He and Gary Goldsmith's last theatrical animated feature, Titan A.E., also did less than expected at the box office. With such classics under his belt like "Robin Hood", "The Rescuers" (Bluth was a lead animator at Disney early in his career), "The Secret of N.I.M.H." and "An American Tail", here's hoping that he keeps the ball rolling and isn't discouraged.
His website can be reached at http://www.donbluth.com/
Sure, but do you complain about the Dirk Diggler comparisons too?
Dragon's Lair Neagativity Assailed
Pyongyang, February 12 (KCNA) -- The US conspiracy in criticizing 'Dragon's Lair 3D' clearly proves that the U.S. is making absurd pretexts for overtaking DPRK fun with nuclear force, if necessary. It is all the more ridiculous when beloved Dirk the Daring is used by US war-mongers to enhance negative feelings among the the world's gamers.
The US remains committed to "secret" plans to topple the DPRK and criticism of fun-loving video games is just but one transparent ploy in the war-mongers game of double-standards.
The US should "pull out" all troops from South Korea and engage in proper dialogue. Until the US video mongers offer DPRK a non-aggression treaty signed by all congress members, the so-called "nuclear issue" of "Dirk the Daring" will not be settled.
Anecdote about Kim Jong IlPyongyang, February 12 (KCNA) -- In 1988, General Secretary Kim Jong Il visited a factory where people were very cold and had little food. He saw that there were no video games and suggested that fifteen minutes of proper video gaming would strengthen deeply cherished feelings and love of the country.
Seeing no video games available, however, General Secretary Kim Jong Il stayed up for two straight nights in order to give his beloved workers proper fun. Finally, General Secretary Kim Jong Il called upon his Libyan friends to deliver three cases of counterfeit Mickey Mouse cups for the workers. Seeing the cups, the workers were very pleased and held a toast with empty cups to their dear leader with their new cups. General Secretary Kim Jong Il hoped that although the cups weren't video game they would understand the spirit of the video games and to be entertained and enlightened nonetheless.
I was in Best Buy the other day and they had a 3-pack DVD set of: Dragon's Lair, Space Ace and Dragon's Lair 2.
The box claimed they were playable on PS2 and XBOX and, I believe, a regular DVD player.
With the way the games were played, they should translate to DVD games without much of a hitch.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Mainly because my 3 yr old digs it so much. Lets play Dragons Lair. Lets play Dragons Lair. The kid tells his mom, "You're Daphne, I'm Dirk" and he proceeds to rescue here from me.
I think the game surpasses the original, (given proper allowances for what years they were both created.) Dragons Lair 3D allows Dirk freedom of movement, he can go anywhere basically, jumping, rolling, crouching, sneaking, climbing, swinging his sword, running etc. I find the idea much more enjoyable than a "go left, right left left up left right left to survive" type game.
The graphics arent up with the latest "Unreal 2" type lighting, etc. but who cares. They are 3D accelerated and the textures look good and Dirk himself and the cartoony characters look great.
The frustrating aspect of the game is the level bosses, sometimes they are so hard to figure out that you pretty much "throw down the mouse" and say "screw it, I'm not going to try for a 500th time today to beat the smithey" (HOW do you beat the Smithey?)
Dirk gets cool "essences" along the way from various level bosses, dragon wings to help him fly, spirit to keep him alive, eyes to let him see secret doors.
Overall, I give it an "A", with a "B-" for the level bosses and having to determine each of their secret formulas for whippin their butts.
Not GNUs!
I was really impressed by that game. It was one of the few games from the 80s that really captured my attention (and money). Ah, the memories.
What I *can't* understand is why they chose Pac-Man for the Smithsonian... why not Ms. Pac Man? I think it was a better game, personally. And it is the #1 collectible arcade machine in the world.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
Am I the only person who thinks that the original was among the WORST GAMES EVER MADE? Dragon's Lair was not a game. It was more like that damned blinking-lighted Simon electronic sysiphean time waster than a video game. In fact, I'm not 100% certain dragon's Lair could even be considered a video game.
Perhaps it was an experiment to see if youth around the western world would feed money into a machine to see if they could press a knob in the right direction at the right time. And it made millions, so the answer is "yes".
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Why, oh why do people talk about that game as if it were fun? You could have hooked up a machine with pre-programmed timings to move the joystick in the right direction at the right time and consistently beat the "game".
Sheesh.
lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
Ummm.... all reviews (of movies, books or whatever) are subjective. Duh. Why does that need to be stated, and why is the comment being modded up as insightful?
Maybe this will convince them not to attempt a remake of Space Ace. I don't know if I could handle it!
It is interesting though, that you can order the DVD version of the original Dragon's Lair Laser Disc version of the game to be played on any standard home DVD player, Playstation 2, or an XBOX with a DVD dongle.
It is much more fun to play the original than this new remake.
I remember standing in a circle of guys at the arcade several nights in a row, taking turns pumping tokens in a full-frontal assault on getting past the first obstacle. We had one guy who could past the first few and actually play for like, 10 minutes... his name was Moses, or Jesus, or something like that. I remember seeing Daphne for the first time, there was a real raw sexuality about the way she was drawn and depicted that made us all stand there slackjawed. I never knew anyone who beat that game.
I don't understand why people are pissed off. I loved the Dragon Lair series, and I thought the 3D version was faithful to the originl. It was neat to see environments in 3D normally seen in cartoon form. The animation was beautiful, and the game kept me interested longer than most games I play today. It's a fun game that doesn't take too much to play, and I think that's missing a lot these days. I didn't have to sit through a half an hour introduction, the puzzles are fun and fast paced, and the characters familiar. Just my two cents though..
(FYI)
My favorite video game has always been The Quarter Eater!.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
The only thing worse than a game that trods on a legacy blah blah blah, is a review that doesn't include any damn SCREENSHOTS.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Oh, come on, Mods! There is NO FRICKING WAY the parent deserves a "5, Interesting" score! What are you thinking?
How does one bad review for a game constitute a statement like "Not Worth The Effort"?
Here's a tip: Try looking at more than one review before you bash something in such a high profile forum.
In the future, try looking up a game's rating on MetaCritic. Have a look and you'll see that altough not everyone liked it, it wasn't universally panned either.
The Slashdot editors need to wake up to the fact that Slashdot holds sway over many a mind. This influence should not be taken lightly.
Pong - Icon of early video gaming. Very worthy.
...
... the most widely ported arcade game ever. And also its graphics were mundane, even for the late 80s, demonstrating games don't have to be sexy to be addictive.
Pacman - First mainstream video game character. Very worthy.
Dragon's Lair - first laserdisc game. Important but not top three material.
How about
Donkey Kong - the game that started the biggest dynasty of game characters
Street Fighter - spawned by far the biggest gaming genre of the past decade
Tetris - the "Hello World" of video gaming
And from the perspective of technology, how about some of the early 3D classics (Star Wars, Tron) or some of the Japanese "VR" dancing, musical instrument etc, games. And for cultural impact.
Dragon's Lair was great technology for its time. But top 3? Not even a contender!!!
I would say(ask) the following questions to the reviewer:
1) Which Platform did you test?
2) The camera angles were easy with a mouse. I had no trouble at all especially with the follow camera feature on. It even had different follow modes like Zelda.
3) Daphne's voice can be turned off on the settings.
It's sounds more like if this reviewer spent a little more time getting familiar with the settings, they wouldn't be so negative on it.
Well the animation (Don Bluth?) was pretty good and the sound (many arcade machines had the full sound our lame TV's and entertainment centers of the 80's lacked) was great, but for me it was a follow the leader type game. Navigate a set order of events to see a cartoon and pay a lot for it. It's success was short lived, $34M wasn't actually a lot, considering these machines likely cost $10K at the time, so the local arcade wanted two tokens per play (effectively 50 cents)
Compare that to NBA Jam, which was the first arcade machine to gross $1B, and it's kinda sick. Most people's familiarity with Dragon's Lair would likely stem from Saturday morning fare, which I only remember briefly.
I preferred to chuck my $20+, per day, into games where I could turn left or right if I felt like it without dying because the game dictated I must go straight or die.
These days I spend more money on board games, wanting to thrash human opponents face to face (utterly failing much of the time, but still having lots of fun :-) How did this ever come about...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
had the Amiga version which was great, but I was never able to get past the last level of that damn game.
Has anyone ever actually beaten it?
Lemmie see if I can remember this.
:)
The magic weapons will jump at you, hit/block them away.
Run over to one of the two fires (If they aren't both lit at the start light your sword in the main one and then light the other one) and light your sword, when he's moving, wack him with your burning sword, this will take you to another round of block the attacking magic weapons....
Repeat as necessary, I remember this being an annoying fight, not as annoying as fighting the first dragon though
I never really understood how that would give someone a sense of what money is worth.
The Quarter Eater!
Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - techno-social writer Jon Katz was found dead in his Boston home this morning. There weren't any more details yet. I'm sure we'll all miss him, even if you weren't a fan of his work there's no denying his contribution to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
I liked it, for what it was. A little hack&slash, a little coordinated movement. Nice graphics, and a clever music video at the end.
:) However, while they included a good number of scenes from the first Dragon's Lair, they included nothing from the second game, although they did include some characters from it, providing a little more depth to the story, not that DL was ever known as a "deep". But they TRIED to tell a story, just wish they did a better job at it. The second game would probably have been harder to put into 3D due to the dramatically different environments, but it was a more entertaining game than the first one, in my not so humble opinion.
It lacks in several regards though. First, its just too damn short. Probably spent 3 hours getting through it the first time. Total. Playing it the second time only took me two hours. Of course, you could finish the original in 15 minutes, so I suppose its an improvement.
One big issue of contention, their in-game movies use the bink format, and downloading a free bink player, you can play them fine outside of the game, but for some reason I can't figure out, the in-game player simply can't handle it. Of course, I'm ONLY on a 1.7ghz machine, so I'm sure there's a really really really good reason that a video playback can't exceed 4fps, but I digress.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
I thought Mad Dog McCree was a much better game in the FMV (Full Motion Video) game genre. It was a lot easier, wasted less money, and the graphics were much better (came out at a much later date though) and yes I know mad dog was not a cartoon but shot with unknown actors. The only part that really screwed me on that game, until I bought the PC version, was the when you had to have a "shoot out" behind some building with these two brothers. Some fucker was in the window that was under the shade so you could never see him, and he would shoot like 1-2 sec after you killed the brothers -- so here you thought you were done then Bang! you're dead. The undertaker was kind of amusing in that game though.
Mad Dog 2 was kind of dumb though. I also bought Who Shot Johnny Rock, and that one was equally stupid. I wa a sucker for FMVs for a while, still am, thats why I guess I like Tex Murphy games (yes I know MS owns it now).
- It was released for all major modern gaming platforms at the same time: PlayStaion 2, Xbox, GameCube, and Windows. To my knowledge, this was the first game to do that. There was no sitting in front of my PC, anxiously waiting for GTA3.
- It includes Daphne. [/me bites fist] She's even cuter when rendered in cell-shaded 3D. I didn't know I could be so enchanted by a low-poly model.
Dragon's Lair 3D is sort of like a movie license. Movie license games tend to honk because they rely on the movie to sell the games, rather than gameplay. This game does not suffer from that problem because it ads huge elements to the original. For example, you get to use magic and stuff. Dirk slays the bad-ass dragon about half way through the game, and then there's more-- much more!Great effort was made to keep the original 1983 flavour as much as possible. The textures on the walls are taken directly from the backgrounds of the 1983 version, whenever appropriate. The characters look almost identical, due to the good use of their cell-shading tech.
It includes ALL the scenes from the 1983 classic, albeit in the new 3D form. For example, that scene where the knight stabs the floor to electrify the tiles is there, but you have to maneuver Dirk with more than one joystick movement per "blip", sorta like Max Payne. It's now a real jumping puzzle. Wow.
The voice acting is excellent. Better than most games out there, probably because it's not all that integral to gameplay and used sparsely. Dirk's little "Ghah!" sounds are still hilarious.
The control occasionally honks. (NB: I'm being PC-centric here) Most of the game, you can control Dirk easily with WASD and a mouse. However, there are points where you are expected to steer Dirk with a joystick. But, you don't have one configured, do you? This can seem really weird if you've been playing Quake for years. This would probably not be noticeable on one of the consoles.
I think that Dragon's Lair 3D is a great game for those are nostalgic for 1983, or those who are very young. But, if you're looking for a rival for Mario, look elsewhere (and let me know if you find anything).
In the small Putt-Putt arcade where I would frequent in the evenings of college, all my friends were totally into the fighting games. Mortal Kombat, Tekken, King of Fighters.. they played and mastered them all. Yet, I totally sucked at fighting games and couldn't remember the special moves to save my life.
So, when they were all pumping tokens into Street Fighter Turbo II GX Ultra I was pumping them into Dragons Lair 2. Sure, I knew it was just a fancy game of memory but I loved the Don Bluth visuals. After several months of pumping what must have been an ungodly amount of money into that machine, I had gotten so good that I could beat the game all the way through on a single token. Fifteen minutes of gaming on just 25 cents.
Then I took it a step further got good enough to beat it on a single token AND getting all the extra items. When that wasn't enough, I eventually had the entire game so memorized I could beat the whole thing on one token, getting all the extra items, never loosing a single life _AAAAND_ using only one hand. People would often come up to watch me play, their jaws gaping at how easy I made it look.
The best part was finishing the game on a single token and then watching as the next guy stepped up to try. They would always just start pounding on the stick like a frustrated ape.
It's been years since I played my beloved Dragon's Lair 2: Time Warp but I sometimes wonder just how far I'd be able to get today.
The problem with this game is that Dirk's movement is way too stiff. Also, when you're trying to move Dirk through the dark tunnel, the balls get in your way. There's also no multiplayer so you only play with yourself.
The original Dragon's Lair game has been out on DVD for quite some time. To make the game work on your DVD player, you use the arrow buttons on your remote. Pretty ingenious to port this game to DVD, IMO.
Also, the Game 'Space Ace', the Half-Brother of Dragon's Lair, is on DVD as well.
Both of these games rock on DVD!!!
Dolemite
Save the World! Use a Quote!
ShwAsasin is typical of people who don't understand how the news media works and operates, probably because he has never worked in a news environment.
Marc Saltzman "isn't JUST a CNN crony" - he has a syndicated column (in which he summarizes press releases). That means that the newspapers mentioned just dip into the newswire stream whenever they need to fill a hole in a page. It DOES NOT mean he "writes for numerous newspapers" (since when did two papers become "numerous"?) and it certainly doesn't impart to him any real credibility.
The books Marc has "written" are little more than long-form versions of the fanboy game press drek that passes for "reporting", which so many have decried here on Slashdot and elsewhere. The majority of them are game strategy guides and cheat codes. That's not journalism and barely passes for writing.
Marc is well known within the games industry as a flack that even the PR agencies can't stand, but more than one PR rep has confessed that they need him because he has managed to build himself a profile. Marc is tolerated by both games companies and the editors at the papers you mentioned, not celebrated as an authority as you would have us think. Marketing staff at the game companies see Marc as a necessary evil until legitimate technology and business journalists (not fanboys) start to cover their industry like any other technology/software/entertainment business.
Editors have confided that they are aware that he has barely (if at all) played the games he "reviews" but the tyranny of the news cycle compels them to publish whatever they can get their hands on when it comes to games. Because they have already paid for content through their newswire subscription, it doesn't really cost the papers anything to run Marc's bumpf.
At industry events, Saltzman simply walks around the displays, picks up the press materials and sampler CDs, asks the game company reps when the next free trip to [INSERT EXOTIC DESTINATION HERE] will be and what kind of graft they will be giving away, and then he goes home.
Why have I posted anonymously? Because I don't need the flames and grief that comes with exposing one of the worst fraud artists that has latched onto and leeched the games industry.
On a personal level Marc is nice enough guy, but on a professional one he leaves much to be desired.
Marc is the living example of the axiom "Politicians, old buildings and whores all become respectable with age." I'll leave it you to figure out which category Marc Saltzman fits into.
Check out the new Zelda game coming out for Gamecube. Real "toony" and will probably be a lot better than the latest Dragons Lair.
http://www.zelda.com/gcn/windwaker.jsp
I remember walking into that small computer store to grab my copy of dragons lair back in 1985 (I was 11 years then). And i still remember the price. 64DM! (32$)
My mother told me i should return it and really messed with the owner but it was worth the hassle since i enjoyed DL on my C=64 soo much. Very sad that the new one looks to be a failure. It deserves a good remake.
cu,
Lispy
Just because the person who wrote about the said those things doesn't mean it reflects what slashdot feels. There are people here who are posting that they like the game, and are not taking the chance to bitch at the sites runners over something the "Anonymous Coward" wrote.
I guess you where hopping for the common "the sites runners suck!" and to get modded +5. Well, I guess it worked, nice to know the trolls felt sorry for you.
Now getting to the game, I would think the same as the title. What little effert the put into the thing was not worth the effort, they made a half assed game. It has the feel of something rushed out the door with little testing based on the fact that the brand name alone will sell.
If that was really the full effort the put into that game, then they really need to fix something other then their game.
Besides, I wouldn't trust Joe Sixpack Rabid Fanboy's reviews. They tend to ignore just about all the flaws and give it high ratings. They wouldn't care to mention the crappy controls, the dumb ai, bad camera angles, the stupid jumping sequences, etc.
Who really cares whether Marc Saltzman wrote the review? What I find most interesting is CNN's disclaimer that distances CNN from Saltzman even though the content is clearly labelled as Gannett wire copy:
I've never seen CNN do that for other copy that's clearly marked as being from a wire service.
Saltzman used to be on CNN all the time but they suddenly dropped him a few months ago. My guess is he misrepresented himself as a CNN reporter to someone (I've seen him repeatedly do this on TV appearances) and it got back to CNN he was abusing their name by using it for self-promotion. A lot of companies that use outside workers have riders in their contracts that specifically prohibit the contractors from misrepresenting themselves as employees or using the company name for self-promotion or personal gain.
One thing I will say about the post above is I always suspected he shills, based on the way he presents the games. This note just confirms what I suspected.
I expected this game to do poorly in the reviews. The problem is that the game starts out very easy (along with little tips that flash up at the bottom of the screen that say "Walk up to the ledge and press 'space' to jump up onto it"), and gets progressively more difficult. The game IS boring and easy, for the first while. But once you get past the "purple baboon-like 'Giddy Goons'", the game starts to get interesting.
The game could definately use a "difficulty" setting, or a tutorial that you could skip, instead of essentially making the tutorial part of the game.
I agree with the article's assertion that the camera was annoying at times, but no more so than most third-person view games.
As for the controls; I personally found using a keyboard to control dirk to be slightly annoying. There's little things like; if you press up twice in quick succession, Dirk will dash forwards a couple steps (same with the other directions). This SOUNDS ok, but every now and then when you're trying to get up close to the edge of a ledge, you'll do it by accident and leap of the ledge. Also, in some portions of the game the camera is fixed, and using four arrow keys (or, in my case, ASDW) limits you to 8 directions (whereas anywhere else you can use the mouse to "look", again, like in most games of this style). I don't know what the article is talking about with it's jumping "sweet spot"... I didn't have this problem at all.
I did not have any problems that would not be fixed by playing the game with a handheld controller with an analog stick (like you would use on the numerous console versions of this game).
One interesting tidbit from the article, the original Dragon's Lair is one of only three video games on display at the Smithsonian. The other two games being Pac-Man and Pong.
Space Invaders or Spy Hunter deserve the position of being a classic arcade game not Dragons Lair! *assuming this is what is being displayed*
Again, Dragons Lair sucked!
Pixels keep you awake!
Dragon's Lair's success convinced the game industry that streamed content from videodisk was the wave of the future. A whole bunch of sequels and clones were rushed out (including one game using great footage from Miyazaki's Castle of Cagliostoro), and Sega and NEC (and Nintendo, but they backed out at the last minute) rushed CD-based home systems into production, mainly to support streaming video games. And it all tanked. Once the novelty wore off, gamers found the tight gameplay constraints of streaming video too limiting.
I think you lost the point of my post. It was only intended to say that the person who wrote the article on CNN is not just another "gamer".
Often sites have some "game dude" review a game and give it the common 90%. Marc, like him or not, has a name for himself. Whether he got it from good reviews or poor ones, he has a decent name behind him and experience over the years to back it up.
I know of an author who writes terrible game programming books, but he still has the market for beginner books because of shear volume.
This is the same Smithsonian that has a transportation exhibit that was named for General Motors after receiving a $10,000,000 donation.
$1 million from the History Channel--Prominent logo placement and exclusive sponsorship contracting for media production
[Washingtonian, 3/02]
$5 million from McDonald's--Donor receives concession contract
[Washington Post, 8/29/01]
$7.8 million from FujiFilm--Donor gets naming rights at Zoo and exclusive marketing rights for film at Smithsonian gift shops.
[LA Times, 6/2/02]
$10 million from Lockheed Martin--Air & Space IMAX theater renamed after donor
[Washington Post, 3/20/02]
$80 million from Kenneth Behring--Tax-payer established Museum of American History is renamed for donor
[LA Times, 6/2/02]
I think you missed the point. Saltzman is just another gamer. His only claim to fame is that he never grew out of it so he's been doing it for longer than most. While @Home was still around, his e-mail address was GameGuyIs@Home.com . If that doesn't scream 'game dude' I don't know what does.
It's not a question of whether he got his name from good or bad reviews. It's a question of how he conducts himself and the credibility, trusworthiness and legitimacy of what he produces. Read the post from the guy above carefully. It describes how Saltzman behaves: always seeking freebies and junkets a.k.a. payola. It describes most of his writing: gamefan cheat codes, strategy guides and PR summaries. It describes how Saltzman is regarded by industry people, PR reps, real journalists and editors, and none of it is positive. That says something.
It boils down to this quote from the post above:
Try reading the game reviews in the the New York Times, for example. They exist on a whole other plane and are far more literate and intelligent than anything I've ever seen by Saltzman. They don't just review a game. They talk about social and societal trends and put the game into a cultural context, just like good film, theater, music and other arts criticism.
There are better choices out there. You just have to look past what's spoonfed to you.
I have the original DL laserdisk and pioneer player. I don't have the controller board.
Anybody know is this stuff is worth anything yet?
"One interesting tidbit from the article, the original Dragon's Lair is one of only three video games on display at the Smithsonian. The other two games being Pac-Man and Pong."
Failed to mention that Yu Suzuki's Virtua Fighter is also on display.
If you're curious about who he is, read this
Repost for ease of reading.
I think you missed the point. Saltzman is just another gamer. His only claim to fame is that he never grew out of it so he's been doing it for longer than most. While @Home was still around, his e-mail address was GameGuyIs@Home.com . If that doesn't scream 'game dude' I don't know what does.
It's not a question of whether he got his name from good or bad reviews. It's a question of how he conducts himself and the credibility, trusworthiness and legitimacy of what he produces. Read the post from the guy above carefully. It describes how Saltzman behaves: always seeking freebies and junkets a.k.a. payola. It describes most of his writing: gamefan cheat codes, strategy guides and PR summaries. It describes how Saltzman is regarded by industry people, PR reps, real journalists and editors, and none of it is positive. That says something.
It boils down to this quote from the post above:
Try reading the game reviews in the the New York Times, for example. They exist on a whole other plane and are far more literate and intelligent than anything I've ever seen by Saltzman. They don't just review a game. They talk about social and societal trends and put the game into a cultural context, just like good film, theater, music and other arts criticism.
There are better choices out there. You just have to look past what's spoonfed to you.
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Was this not funny? Or is it just too subtle? I think it's hilarious, but of course I wrote it and I'm hopelessly juvenile minded.
Wasn't the main point of the Dragon's Lair game that its graphics were cel-based, rather than pixel-based? If they've gone 3D, is that over? Or have they figured out a way to keep the cels and make it 3-dimensional at the same time?
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
This is really too bad. I was hoping a great NPR (nonphotorealistic) game would come along and spark some changes in how so many programmers write vertex shaders. I'm a big fan of stylistic redering in video games.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
This guy thinks that the third person game is a "Platform". Well, that should tell you something to begin with.
Yeah, right. The original Dragon's Lair games had great graphics, but virtually no gameplay. They were almost universally panned by reviewers and gamers alike. Having to memorise 50+ joystick movements that HAVE to be performed in the EXACT right direction at the EXACT right time is by no means a "game". :-(
Normally I wouldn't do this but most people are going to miss what is a well-considered and thoughtful post for no other reason than their threshold settings will filter it out. So here it is:
Corrections Re:Marc Saltzman, Game Industry Flack (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13, @05:35PM (#5297773)
ShwAsasin is typical of people who don't understand how the news media works and operates, probably because he has never worked in a news environment.
Marc Saltzman "isn't JUST a CNN crony" - he has a syndicated column (in which he summarizes press releases). That means that the newspapers mentioned just dip into the newswire stream whenever they need to fill a hole in a page. It DOES NOT mean he "writes for numerous newspapers" (since when did two papers become "numerous"?) and it certainly doesn't impart to him any real credibility.
The books Marc has "written" are little more than long-form versions of the fanboy game press drek that passes for "reporting", which so many have decried here on Slashdot and elsewhere. The majority of them are game strategy guides and cheat codes. That's not journalism and barely passes for writing.
Marc is well known within the games industry as a flack that even the PR agencies can't stand, but more than one PR rep has confessed that they need him because he has managed to build himself a profile. Marc is tolerated by both games companies and the editors at the papers you mentioned, not celebrated as an authority as you would have us think. Marketing staff at the game companies see Marc as a necessary evil until legitimate technology and business journalists (not fanboys) start to cover their industry like any other technology/software/entertainment business.
Editors have confided that they are aware that he has barely (if at all) played the games he "reviews" but the tyranny of the news cycle compels them to publish whatever they can get their hands on when it comes to games. Because they have already paid for content through their newswire subscription, it doesn't really cost the papers anything to run Marc's bumpf.
At industry events, Saltzman simply walks around the displays, picks up the press materials and sampler CDs, asks the game company reps when the next free trip to [INSERT EXOTIC DESTINATION HERE] will be and what kind of graft they will be giving away, and then he goes home.
Why have I posted anonymously? Because I don't need the flames and grief that comes with exposing one of the worst fraud artists that has latched onto and leeched the games industry.
On a personal level Marc is nice enough guy, but on a professional one he leaves much to be desired.
Marc is the living example of the axiom "Politicians, old buildings and whores all become respectable with age." I'll leave it you to figure out which category Marc Saltzman fits into.
Umm...I live in Japan. I've seen the new Zelda game. It looks like the graphics were designed by an 8-year old. Not that the Zelda francise has ever had realistic graphics, but I really prefer my games not to look like they were colored with magic marker. Also, I thought Link was supposed to be at least in his teens. Instead, he also looks like an 8-year old (maybe it's a Mary Sue by the graphics designer)...
Sono koro, bokura wa, sore ga sekai no shinjitsu da to shinjite ita.
I loved the game nebulus on the C64. That was Ubi.
Girls are strange. They don't come with a man page.
-- Michael Mattsson
Using the mouse / keyboard combination (very "Quake like"), you find that you have to almost always hold down the run button (assigned to "R"). Inverted "T" for movement is WASD. You use the spacebar (or mouse key) to do attacks or open things. Now, the ALT key is used to jump.
I found that on Windows XP, if you hit the ALT key just before the forward (W) key, you get a system beep event, and the screen switches back to the Windows desktop.
I posted a message to Ubi's support site, and got a response that told me that I needed the latest DirectX and video card drivers. I had them, but I installed whatever was the latest anyway.
Same problem. I was then told that I could "fix" the problem by remapping my "ALT" key to something else.
Unfortunately, that doesn't work very well. You DL3D at least seems to have a problem with key combinations of anything that isn't a modifying key (i.e. alt works in combos, but "C" doesn't). I expressed this to the support person that not only would it be very inconvenient to use a key other than the alt (my hand has enough problems, I don't need to twist it out of whack to use some strangely placed key when the ALT is perfectly ergonomic in this case). I never got a response, and no word to fix it.
Haven't touched the game since, and I only wish I could return it for a full refund. I'm never buying another Ubi product.
I wish I could post a link to the exact post on their site, but my company blocks their server.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
I'm not sure what the original poster's talking about, but Who shot Johnny Rock had you as a PI, shooting at a video screen, ala Lethal Enforcers (but with a story)
I couldn't see the point of Dragon's Lair when it came out - "so you watch some video, and get to make a choice, and then watch some more video? Forgive me if I'd rather watch paint dry....(or play Pacman)"
If you own Asus a7n8x (dx), all this skipping stuff is a known problem.
:)
There seems to be a bug in hardware of MCP-T chipset (soundstorm part of it) and / or sound drivers. The temporary fix, and the one I use atm, is set your directsound hardware acceleration to "basic", for anything above causes things to be accelerated without speed checks or whatever. It is also precisely what causes bink movies to play ~3 fps.
More about the problem can be found here, here, and here's a FAQ should you have more problems (like slow bootups due to ~1 minute searches for nonexistant IEEE1394 devices)
Of course, above post is ripe with assumptions. Too much so, I'm afraid
Wheee~!
I was in my early teens when the original Dragon's Lair came out, and I remember after playing it once I came away unimpressed. Sure, it was cool to have a "cartoony" game at the time, but (IMO) the playability was awful.
;)
Hard to believe that a polygon-based game -- which you would think would be more responsive than a timing-based "choose your own adventure" type of video -- actually would be worse.
Maybe the developers needed to put more buxom female characters in the game. It seems to work for Eidos.
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hashing collisions, normal wear and tear of friction surfaces, comic
radiation, inadvertent destruction of sensitive electronic components,
windstorms, the Riders of Nazgul, infuriated chickens, malfunctioning
mechanical or electrical sexual devices, premature activation of the
distant early warning system, peasant uprisings, halitosis, artillery
bombardment, explosions, cave-ins, and/or frogs falling from the sky.
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