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Dell Takes the Low Road Regarding Ink Cartridges
Anonymous Coward writes "Dell released a line of printers today, manufactured by Lexmark. As covered by by Yahoo they '..contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is refilled and replaced in a Dell printer..' and 'The cartridges are different sizes than cartridges from other printer vendors, including Lexmark, the spokesperson said. This will limit the amount of knockoff cartridges available, but only until someone figures out how to reverse engineer Dell's cartridges.'" In the interest of full disclosure, note that the poster sells knockoff carts.
usually on slashdot using technology and not legalese is the high road to preventing things you don't want.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
If Lexmark does it on their own, would Dell's version be any different?
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Free your mind.
Saying that Dell taking the low road by preventing the sale of third party ink cartriges would be akin to saying the same of Microsoft and the X-Box. Dell sells printers at close to cost, making up for it because of package deals and the extra sales of their proprietary cartridges. Don't knock them for trying to make their money back.
Have you been stalked by Seth today?
New cars' gas tanks will not be able to be refilled. If you need new gas, you will have to buy a new gas tank from Ford, GM, etc. This will ensure you get the highest quality feul that will ensure the maximum life of your car. A smart chip will prevent manual refilling.
Isn't there someone out there that can hack this prevention technology? It would be nice to make a chip to solder onto the printers mainboard to send a "full" signal regardless of the condition of the ink cartridge.
Then again...would it be possible to do a hack via the means of software?
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
Biggest scam ever! They get more and more useless every day...."Oh, I printed half a page, time to buy a new $50 ink cartridge".
Printer technology peaked with the laserjet printer and everything since then has been a ugly and annoying attempt by printer manufacturers at a constant revenue stream. Blegh!
Rant Over.
I bought my HP laserjet for $240. About the $289 dollar inkjet from Dell. Inkhet printers are typically $200-$100.
After switching to laser I will never go back. I do not need color for most documents and the quality and reliablity are so much better. My epson inkjet blows goatballs and always jams.
http://saveie6.com/
that I hate printers? They're clunky, they rarely work right, and the ink costs a fortune.
... I hates them!
Dirty smelly nasty printersesses
These days, print cartidges cost more then a printer. Just go buy a new printer when you run out. At $50 CDN for a decent Epson printer, you can't go wrong.
would be in direct violation of the DMCA.
Unless you are basing your operation in a more civiliezed part of the world, that is.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
I actually used one of those refill kits once, and it worked great. Isn't it illegal for a company to create a monopoly over ink?
So who makes printers with cheap consumables? I am going to have to travel back in time to stock up on printers that I can refill in the future. The winner in the printer wars is going to make a lot of money in ink sales - a few years from now.
Open source development is my way of competing with the low-cost programmers in India...
Anyone know how the printer "knows" that you filled it up?
PS
First post!
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rm -rf
What the cheapest inkjet printer is for initial cost & cartridges? I bought an Epson for $50 and 2 cartridges set me back the same amount as the printer. I use mostly black, but the problem is if the color runs out, it won't even let me print in black.
Dell thinks that "out-of-spec" cartridges will break the printer or what? Bad cartridges can possibly give bad print-outs, and that's a risk I'm willing to take, but they won't break the printer. Customers don't need to be babysitted on this.
Dell has released an extremely cheap printer. This extremely cheap printer uses ink cartridges which create a revenue stream for Dell, but also wear out and stop functioning to spec after a certain amount of time.
Some third party is upset that they cannot refill those cartridges, even though they were not designed to be refilled, and are at the end of their lives.
Consumers have a multitude of options regarding printing technology, at widely varying costs per page. Dell's decision has not eliminated any of the other suppliers or technologies.
In short, unless you manufacture inkjet refill kits, don't worry about this, it doesn't matter and it would change your life in the least.
First I hate ink jets, second it a dell, dell is the worse company to sell computer parts. See this journal
entry of mine in regards to the hell I went though with dell.
Well they are almost correctly name
Dell thinks the software included with the printers sets them apart from the competition, said Tim Peter, vice president and general manager of Dell's imaging and printing group. Users receive prompts to replace cartridges when the ink level falls below a certain mark and a link to Dell's Web site where replacement black and color cartridges can be ordered appears on the user's screen.
Great. Lets just add some more junk to load up in Windows startup. If you buy a Dell with 256 RAM, the average home user (like my mom) will have a total of 2 megs left after all the crap in these name brand PC's load up. This just copies Lexmark anyway. Last Lexmark printer I installed for someone had about 5 new command lines for programs added to start-up, with 4 of them not even needed to operate the printer. Great. So after the the other 42 programs in your start up load up, you get this addi
I sorta like
This reminds me of a mod chip in reverse. People are not trying to steal anything here, which is what the mod chip is mainly used for. I am a bit peeved at the idea of a complany attempting to stop someone from modifying what they legelly own (IE. print cartridge).
At least it doesn't require that you have to print exclusively on Dell paper. I bet someone is inventing that right now.
Open source development is my way of competing with the low-cost programmers in India...
Generic ink/ink cartidges are crap, for god sakes buy brand name cartridges!
Honestly, the quality of refilled printer cartridges is uneven, and that's putting it nicely. A great many consumers don't know much about PCs, and less about printers, many of them plan on printing about a hundred pictures and then getting bored with the whole "computer" thing anyway. Those cheap lexmark printer are awesome, cheap and print high quality for next to nothing. Sure price per page sucks, but does your great aunt really want a colour laser printer so she can print pictures of her gawd awful great grandbabies?
...when you refill ink cartridges, you're refilling terrorism!
In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
The cartridge they bundle with new printers is only half-filled.
I don't think it will.
As long as most people blindly accept the pap they get from Dell, they will buy printers like this one as well. The end result? Dell sells printers and ties them to the cartidges. They're just looking to capitalize on their place in the market . . . appealing to the ignorant buyers in households who know no better options.
Real markets depend upon easy access of producers and consumers, and an informed consumer on the products of the market. In this case, we have neither; ergo, we have no market. We have another Windoze in the making.
It's situations like this one that make me doubt the "free market."
...tizzyd
The only printer I have working now is the old receipt thermal printer from my former cash register. It's blazingingly fast, but only does 60 columns. And it's really small text. Great for grocery lists, for code not so much. And I only have two rolls of the free Service Merchandise paper left.
Anyway, there's my random thought for the day. Thought I'd share. I think now I'll head over to ebay.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I am not the only one who realizes that it's cheaper to buy a new printer than a set of replacement catridges.
So, what do you think happens to the old printer? it gets tossed; and then it gets dumped in a landfill or china - neither is a very good option.
I don't see how does that *not* impact my life.
Besides, environmental issues aside, while cheap, printers DO COST MONEY TO MAKE, and throwing them away because the manufactures decides on a fucked-up business model only drives up the cost eventually.
I really don't like this model the inkjet people has taken on. I mean, I understand it with games consoles, but the analogy don't really compare. It's like if Xbox costed less than your typical came and always came with coupon for a free game of your choosing - or a car that's so cheap you will buy it for the tank of gas that the dealer gives you. It's not a good business model anywhere else, why would the printer people get all drunk over it?
My life in the land of the rising sun.
This sort of thing only bothers me when the manufacturer takes action to restrict the customer's ability to use the product as the customer desires, and the customer doesn't realize this until he gets it home.
As long as the customer is made aware of the artificially engineered restrictions, then I figure it's cool. Customers who don't want to accept those restrictions don't have to buy the product. It's not like DeLL has a monopoly on printers.
Well if it is so great to make printers that easily accept third party cartridges, why doesn't someone sell one, advertise it as such.
Then they could make the money on the printer, rather then these high priced cartridges.
That being said, my experience is that the third party refills or cartridges suck and you're better off with the OEM ink.
First of all, only a certain set of Dell cartridges have these chips according to the article. You can choose to buy the standard cartridges rather than the chip-laden "use and return" cartridges. The only barrier to buying the standard cartridges from anyone but Dell is the size mismatch issue, but that'll be solved by third-parties in a matter of 6 months, tops. And, sure, you have to buy "Use and Return" cartridges only from Dell, but that's why they're cheaper in the first place.
So, why is anyone complaining about this? Because there are evil "chips" in the cheaper cartridges? Because only a certain set of their cartridges (once again, the cheaper "Use and Return" kind) have these "chips"? Good gravy, chill out. Dell's just doing smart business. They aren't invading your privacy or anything.
Designing in explicit incompatibilities and obsolesense is very annoying and a greedy ripoff, but there is nothing leagally wrong with it (except in the EU), as long as reverse engineering is permitted. However as soon as something like the DMCA is invoked by Dell (which Lexmark has already done), then the real low road will have been discovered.
Imagine what might happen in the future, say with some new kind of organic ink. Well if that ink contains some sort of DNA strand, and you got that patented, and you found a cheap way to put DNA testing chips in the catridges there would be another low milestone.
For me, I'd be glad to pay higher prices for a printer if the cost and hassle of ink/toner replacement were easier. The situation where every new model of printer must have a new unique and incompatible cartidge is beyond silly. This kind of thing happens in other industries too from time to time. Consider battery packs for digital cameras. It seems that the usual way for these things to be sorted back to a reasonable reality is either for the government to step in (say #2 pencils, shoe sizes, gas peddle on the right, etc.) or for the industry to totally collapse or come under the control of a single monopoly.
By asserting that "old" cartridges may not function "to spec", Dell claims to be protecting the very consumers it is in fact gouging by forcing them to buy Official(tm) Dell(R) PrintCartridges(sm) as replacements. It's all about protecting the consumer against sub-standard output (which incidentally is about all you get on low price inkjets in my experience).
Sell me a printer, and let me put whatever the fuck kind of ink I want to in it.
Do you think it would be acceptable for the manufacturer of my car to disable the engine if I didn't put Dell brand oil in it?
1) Went to Staples in Burnaby, BC, Can-na-DUH 2) Bought a LEXMARK Z23 3) Gave them 34 dollars cDN or 3 bucks US 4) Came home plugged it in , noticed black cart. 5) Went back to Staples, noticed BW CART was $53 6) Bought 6 more printers... Problem Solved.. I will donate them to old people, and old farts homes before i use all the ink up.. Laser is the only cheap way to go.. K.
It's as easy as that. I usually "buy" (i.e.price) the cartridges first.
Just my 2 cents worth: I considered this issue when I bought my last printer, got a Canon printer with individual ink tanks. Very easy to refill (drill a small hole in the side above the ink line, fill and seal) and there is no chip counting drops of ink used or stopping you from removing the print haed assembly for cleaning, transporting, storage or other reasons. I'm extremely happy with it.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
It strikes me that trying to make carts really expensive in today's fluid markets is like Chris Rock's super-expensive bullets- it's hilarious, because you just can't control other manufacturers. As complicated as you can make a cart, it's still pretty damn easy to reverse engineer, and they're consistently broken within months. I think the printer manufacturing industry ought to work hard to cooperate and raise the price of printers (not illegal collusion, just establish some price leadership like the airlines) so they can stop relying so heavily on cart sales and get their cash up front.
I suppose this used to kind of be the case, and it was likely dell who broke it. Ahh, well...
Read jack phelps dot net
My dad ran a laser printer cartridge recharge/refurbish business for a while several years ago. IIRC, a lot of printer manufacturers would also collect these old cartridges to do the same and resell them as used. What's preventing Dell/Lexmark/whoever from doing something like this? There's obviously a market for it, they'd save on manufacturing costs and empty cartridges would stay out of the landfills for a while.
This "feature" in Dell printers reminds me of what Epson does to its entire line of ink jets. Personally, I own an Epson Photo 1290 that I use very regularly in my studio to print photos to be framed for sale. Buying loads upon loads of Epson OEM ink is certainly not very economical. So instead, I bought a continuous inking system. Basically, several large bottles of ink are piped directly into a modified ink cartridge, essentially providing a cartridge with mega-capacity. It's economical, it's more convenient, and most of all, it's more versitile. Instead of standard Epson ink, I can choose from inks with different characteristics and color gamuts. You haven't seen beauty until you've seen 4-tone black and white photos from a fairly-standard ink jet printer!
Unfortunately, the chipped Epson cartridges poses a problem. Not only will the chips tell the printer when the cartridges run out of ink, it will also disable the printer until it is replaced. Moreover, the chips don't even check the level of ink remaining. Instead, it counts the number and size of pages printed, and guesses when the ink is gone. With a continuous inking system and it's near-infinite capacity, this is not ideal.
As a result, several groups have developed workarounds. Some have made write-protected chips that are "reset" when the printer is turned off. Others have made devices to alter the ink-level information stored on the chip. And last I heard, there was work being done on a software workaround. Certainly, there are bypasses, and they have already been used for other printer manufacturers.
If anyone is interested in printer-mods, check out CIS and Chip Resetter.
If these workarounds were not available, I would certainly have no bought an Epson printer. But at the same time, I can understand the manufacturers' position on third-party carts. Ink cartridges, not printers, are where the money's made!
Everyone please come down, this is self-regulating capitalism in action. It is well known fact that there are little to no margins in printers themselves. The way Dell is going to make up what is more than likely a loss on the printer itself is to sell printer cartridges. Think of it as a loan, they sell you the printer at or below cost so the consumer does not have to bite the bullet and pay for the full cost of the printer (And the manufactures profit). Consumers like it that way! People like a cheap upfront cost!
It is the exact same way with cellphones, look at the cost of a unlocked (gsm) cellphone compared to the cost of getting the same phone under contract with a cellphone provider that locks you into the use of that one provider. Granted, some people do go for the unlocked phones, but the vast majority are fine with a locked phone from the provider because it is the same phone but much cheaper. Same with DirecTV who eat a loss of somewhere around $200 for each reciever they sell. Oh, and it only works with DirecTV.
If there was a market for printers that used some sort of universal cartrage, someone would make it thanks to capitalism. If you want something close get a laser, there is much less focus on consumables in that market, but of course you are going to pay a much higher upfront cost. (I have a laser and personally I wouldn't use anything else)
If you don't like it don't buy an ink jet printer, and/or make the market known for a inkjet printer that is not subsidised and uses an open design for cartriges, but frankly gripping at length at how Dell is trying to screw the consumer with a perfectly legitiment business model (And one that most consumers like) is not productive and gets quite tiresome.
You know as well as I do that many people look at the printer price, not some complex calculation of cost per page, pages per cartridge, cartridge price and # of pages over printer lifetime, at least not when this big red sign "SALE: Only XX.99$" is beaming towards you.
:p), or my printer to accept paper of any color, and not only paper with a hidden "printer" watermark.
Personally, I would consider "ink" as a commodity product. Just like I expect my car to run on gas from any petrol station (assuming right octane at least
I don't have a problem with the business model though as long as it is clearly labeled. "Can only be used with [brand] ink cartridges. Third-party cartridges or ink refill is not possible. Attempts to circumvent this is illegal under the DMCA and punishable by [whatever it is]." in red. That should kill sales pretty quick...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
This isn't anything new for Dell. They have played this game before. Anyone remember their standard yet non-standard "ATX" power supplies?
Out of fairness, newer Macintoshes also have standard yet non-standard power supplies. And back in the days of 286's, lots of manufactuers had their own connectors for everything from keyboards to memory.
I have an epson 1270 printer. There is a chip in the cartridge that will prevent printing when its out of ink. I think there already are ways to work around this problem for 3rd party ink vedors.
The only problem I have is that when the 5 color ink cartridge is "out" is still seems to have alot of ink left.
My next printer will have induhvidual (sic) ink cartridges.
How can a few onces of ink cost $30 - $40????????
Since the days (20 years ago) when scammer Mikey Dell placed a dozen two-page spread ads (unpaid for) in PC Magazine pretending to be 12 different Texas companies, he's pretty much decided it's more comfortable down there.
There is no reason to buy one of these Dell printers when you can buy another brand that doesn't have this "feature." Depending upon what you're printing and how much, it may be worthwhile to invest in a decent laser printer. The price per-page on laser printers is far less than that of inkjet printers. If you print a lot, a laser printer will eventually pay for itself. You do have to be careful of course in what you buy since not all are made the same. I couldn't tell you what to buy right now, but I bought a Lexmark 12ppm laser printer three years ago and I've yet to run out of toner for it. The price was $499 on clearance. When I do need to replace the toner cartridge I can buy 3rd party and refilled cartridges very cheaply. If I want to add more memory to the printer I can do that very cheaply as well because it works with standard 72-pin EDO simms.
Here is a little bit of printer tivia for you. The printer division of HP makes derives 75% of its profits from the sale of ink and toner cartridges. Remember that the next time some company tries to lock you in to buying cartridges from them.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
RE>>.contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is refilled and replaced in a Dell printer.>>>
this is a load of horseshit, i hope Dell loses their ass in this deal, same for ALL those printing companys that charge outragous prices for their printer cartrages...
What I like about Epson inkjets is that for just a few dollars more than replacing the cartridges, I can replace the whole printer. Since their printers really do get better year-to-year, why not?
... but what they hey?
Now, I can't believe they're making money on me, since the printers sell for cost
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
"The market" can work things out if the consumers have the information. You can imagine a series of printers that cost more but take "commodity" ink being popular with some people while some people like the "minimum up-front cost" Dell/Lexmark path.
Nutrition labels, car MPG labels, appliance Energy Star labels ... these are all cases where a little government arm-twisting gives us a much more competitive and responsive market.
The theme is: use transparency to bring to the surface costs being shifted to the consumer. If they still choose to consume ... so be it. This same great strategy is the basis of yesterday's article about
requirng labels on copy-restricted materials.
That's it folks. Unless you do very low volume printing, a cheap printer can be mighty expensive to own.
That's why it's always smart to look at total cost of ownership for a printer.
Let me give you an example. I bought my HP laserjet some 6 years ago. It wasn't cheap. But it's printed a boatload of pages, and have yet to replace the toner cart.
My Ex's sister bought a cheap little HP inkjet. But she prints so little that she has yet to replace her ink cart.
My girlfriend's brother-in-law bought a cheap inkjet... and the ink costs nearly put him under. It was very very expensive to run that little piece of crap.
So remember! initial investment + price per page is what counts.
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
if they would be even halfway creative and use the ROM on the chip for something useful, such as storing color or viscosity information about the inks. This would enable companies to periodically reformulate their inks (to increase longevity, saturation, or even just due to manufacturing variation) while preserving perfect matching from cartridge to cartridge. They could also license this to third parties to enable the sale of quadtone, hextone, or true six color inks (instead of the usual light cyan and light magenta, the other two inks might be orange and blue, or spot colors). This would add real value, but instead this technology is being used for the singularly unimaginative use of vendor lock-in. It might not be good for third-party drivers (such as Gimp-Print), but if printer vendors used these chips for useful purposes, it actually would benefit users.
People actually should be careful about third-party cartridges and refill kits; some of these are very bad, and if you're not careful with refill kits you can cause problems either by introducing air bubbles or debris. Some printers (Canon and HP that I know of) include the print head with the cartridge, and the head isn't designed for a very long life; the quality will probably degrade after a few refills. Epson printers use a long-life head technology, but the flip side is that if you damage the heads, you're either looking at an expensive repair or a new printer. Refill kits are also messy. However, that really should be for the user to decide.
.. knowing that this happens could change the will of consumer on buying that products, or chosing printers from competitors. Maybe the previous discused here bill that tags products with copy protection schemes could be extended for this kind of things.
Printers' retail packaging should prominently label how much of a ripoff the cartriges are, and how long they actually last. Most of them are deliberately made 1/4 full or worse so they run out quickly and people have to buy more. It's a great moneymaking scheme to exploit people who are too dumb to read Consumer Reports. I'm all for using knockoff cartriges. The companys claim it's on par with "stealing" mp3s? Bah humbug. I still get that robin hood feeling from uploading 3GB/day of stuff on Bearshare.
Repeal the DMCA!
Quit your bitching and get a DI. ;)
In all seriousness, laser is the way to go. Just not from Lexmark apparently.
Will we be able to get these non-refillable cartridges from our local office supply store? Or will we have to pay $75 plus $50 shipping and handling from Dell?
Lexmark won the injunction last I heard
Do injunctions create precedent?
Will I retire or break 10K?
So, what happens when Dell realizes they're not making enough money on printers and discontinues them?
Where are you gonna get ink?
Why buy from Dell when it's just a remarked Lexmark? Just buy the Lexmark, the ink/toner will be much more widely available, and probably less expensive.
Nothing to see here; Move along.
The whole inkjet chip system is there for a reason.
Company X sells printers. They also sell ink. Yes, they make money on those ink cartridges (and lots of it).
But why do they make you replace the cartridge instead of letting you refill it?
Have you ever seen what an improper refill does to the engine of the printer?
So now, Dell, HP, whoever, should have to fully cover your printer replacement when you screw up?
How fair is that? The printer company should only have to cover stuff that's their fault.
Something else you need to remember... Can most Slashdot users refill an ink cartridge? Yes. Can most people that buy their printers at the mall, Wal-Mart, whatever? Um, no.
My mom says I'm cool.
By restricting a consumer to have to buy only from you, you produce a monopoly on a product available for price gouging. (Sorta like gas prices these days)
:)
Hell with the DMCA
Hell with Dell
Thats all the rant I got left
-1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
And just because most consumers have fallen for it is no reason for me to fall for it or for me to absolve myself of my duty as a friend to make sure all my acquaintances know how to really calculate the cost per page of a printer.
To say "this is ok because most people seem to be doing it" freezes human progress at it's current level. In fact, most people get conned and gypped when they buy a printer; the profit margins of HP's printer division are subsidizing the entire rest of that mismanged disaster of a company; they have been so presistently successful in their robbery that now Dell and IBM (Lexmark) are immetating them; we NEED to bitch and moan to educate our fellow citizens and put HP in the grave it deserved 10 years ago.
Instead you would have us rationalize everything away and allow this rippoff to continue to drag down the economy. If everyone bought cheap epson refillables, they would have $20/year or more to spend on innovation and progress instead on subsidizing dead companies. Of course, YOU use a laser and are quite happy to let the people around you get ripped off while you sniff "I wouldn't use anything else."
No surprise to see by your homepage you also use a mac. No further surprise to see that you own a Lexus AND a BMW and take vacations to Africa.
You owe every ill informed friend opf yours who is paying $34.95 for each ink jet cartigage an apology. Get off your fucking techno-aristocrat high horse and start pulling your weight in society. Or just stay in Africa next time.
Why not just run msconfig and remove it all from the startup?
Because Joe AOL doesn't know how to wield msconfig without f***ing up the whole installation.
Will I retire or break 10K?
See, your everyday jerk who gets a printer only cares about how cheap it is. And if Dell was selling printers at a profit and letting just anybody refill the ink cartridges, they'd never sell a single printer because everybody else would be cheaper. So they have to sell at a loss and make it up on the backend. And if they didn't use the standard method of encrypting the cartridges, they'd be screwed. So frankly, it's a demand of the competition.
very often the most complicated part-- the print nozzles-- are attached to the ink cartridge itself. There is a technical reason for this actually, the ink nozzles tend to get clogged over time.
With a Canon printer, I can replace the nozzles and the ink separately.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Most people are missing the biggest problem with Dell not having compatible cartridges. Right now, if you run out of ink while printing your paper/report/projet that is due TOMORROW you can simply pop over to the nearest office supply store and get a new ink jet cartridge, or if it's late you can go to the 24-hour super Wal-Mart since even they carry HP/Lexmart/Canon ink jet cartridges. If you get a Dell and you run out, what are you going to do? Order a new one that will be shipped at best overnight and pay the overnight shipping charges on a $30 cartridge? Or will you decide to wait a week while UPS Ground delivers it? Either way you are heavily screwed. Dell is going to make some big enemies when people find out they can't buy a replacement cartridge locally.
contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is refilled and replaced in a Dell printer
Ok, time to start filling the cartridge while it is still in the printer. That way, it's never "replaced in the printer"
you should open your google before you troll next time.
Read this for example.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Years ago (4) I was impressed when my neighbor got his HP printer picked up at his house, fixed by HP and sent back to his door step.
HP is cool! I said.
I buy a deskjet. 842c! I run out of ink in a week with my wimpy half cartridge that came with it.
HP stinks.
I refill all my colors and black appropriately (therfore spending as much as the printer cost) and I buy some nice HP photo paper, and the prints are brilliant!
HP rocks!
I find out you can't refill the latest ink cartridges.
HP stinks.
I find out I have an old printer and I can refill my cartridges!
HP rocks!
Instead of actually using printers, lets try to encourage a paperless environment.
At Work, Home, School-wherever. It's way easier to e-mail a file to someone than print up pages and actually physically deliver it.
Of course there is a place for paper and sometimes it's unavoidable. So start sharing those files-- you help the environment, screw over dell, and save money.
I purchased a Xerox printer summer 2001 and the ink just ran out on me ( havent used it in 6 months however). Went to the original store of purchase, Compusa, to be ink... no good. They did not sell any xerox ink. So, I went online, saw that the Xerox ink was $30.00, saw the generic was $3.00. Which do you think I bought?
Saved a sh!tload...
100% Insightful
We are not responsible for YOUR revenue model! :
Why is it that everytime someone undersells
another person, there is this huge cry of
"But that wasn't according to MY plan!!! stop at once!!!"
Grow up.
Have you ever seen what putting Diesel fuel in a gas car does? I am pretty sure that their warranty doesn't cover the printer if you refill the cart.
- a regular cartridge with no lockout chip ($129/$99/$35)
- a "use and return" cartridge with lockout chip ($99/$75/na).
I feel pretty certain that Dell wants to keep you as a cartridge customer, but they aren't locking you in. Oh, and only one of the four printers is an inkjet. The others are lasers. Even better, the inkjet does not include this technology. Bottom line: Dell is getting into the laser printer cartridge refilling business. No wonder the OP is complaining.If the knockoff inkjet manufacturers can make money selling the cartridges, or refill kits why can't Dell? I mean I don't really want to shoot up my ink jet cartridges anyway, I'd rather steal them from work. What ever happened to compitition?
Anyways the analogy is irrelevant, anybody can make gas and anybody can make printer cartriges.
Anybody who buys a printer with proprietary cartriges is a moron. They could double the price of those cartriges tomorrow, and whatcha gonna do about it?
No, get me a daisy-wheel printer *NT*
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
So if somebody tried disabling or modding this chip, would Dell sue?
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
For the kids homework, artwork, photos etc.A buck a page(color), open all night, nice laser printers that they maintain. Plus they have a wysiwyg previewer that faithfully prints what I upload to them. Of course I miss the thrill of watching my stack of "test" prints grow on my desktop, but I temper that with all the beer I can buy with the money I am no longer waisting on ink. PS- I do not work for Kinkos
Can anyone think of a printer I can buy which will not force me to use their own chipped cartridges ? That would be very hip and grooovy man.
Injket printers are pretty much all consumer grade CRAP anyway. I would never buy one.
I'll stick with my laser
Hell on a discount day with a coupon I can buy a $700 office quality Lexmark machine for $400. That is why the Dell is bankingon the toner, I am buying the printer for cost probably less.
I was using an Epson Photo Stylus 700 (or something like that), which could print amazing near-photo quality color prints on special paper. The black and white output was rather nice, too, on heavy paper (24# white, not the cheaper copier paper). But it was costing me a lot just to print - between the paper costs, and the ink (and because I hardly used it, it tended to dry out quickly) - it just wasn't worth it. As far as the photo printing was concerned - the number of times I truely used it: 0 (!!!). Not too long ago, it stopped printing - even when I put in a new cartridge. The last time it did this, I had to send it in for cleaning (thankfully it was still under warantee), and wait 3 weeks (actually, the time spent was pretty short, all considering). I made up my mind then I was going to get a nice laser printer, come hell or high water.
A little looking around, and I found that a used HP Laserjet 3 with a relatively low page count was going to cost me around $150.00 - if I was lucky I would get a toner cartridge, too. But I thought it would be worth it...
I ended up looking around town a bit, and happened upon a Laserjet 6p at a local used-computer store I frequent. I asked them how much - they said $100.00 (!!) - I hemmed and hawwed a little bit, and asked if they could power it up (I didn't want a lemon). They told me "No problem", pulled the toner cart out of their store printer (same model!), fired it up and did a self test - out came a beautiful black and white image! I asked about return/warantee - they said they would give me a week for in-store credit (in case the interface was FUBAR'ed). I couldn't pass it up, so I bought it, and took it home.
That week, I contacted a local printer cartrige/ribbon shop (any ribbon for any printer - literally!), and told them my situation: I didn't want to pay for a full cartridge, in case the printer didn't work (the cartrige was $70.00 for trade, $95.00 for new) - they accommodated me by letting me put down a deposit of $10.00 on a used returned cartridge, to try the printer out with. I took it home, popped it in, loaded paper, installed the drivers - and...Success!!! The printer worked beautifully - since it was for my wife, I stuck it on her machine (a 'doze box) - but eventually I am going to get a network printer buffer and hook it up to that, so I can print to it from my SuSE box.
I took the cartridge back, and even though I knew I could get refilled cartridges cheap online - I asked them about buying one of theirs - they told me that since they had a ton of returns for refills, and didn't need any more, that they would give me a trade in one for the $70.00 (so I essentially got a refilled/refurbed cart without needing the trade in) - I made sure to let them know that I could have gotten it cheaper online, but because they helped me out I decided to give them my business.
It has been a few months now, and the printer works great - I checked the page count on it, and it was around 25,000 page (damn near brand new as far as Laserjets go). It doesn't squeak or make other funky noises - it's only "problems" are one missing cover, and it needing a "special" right angle power cord. I also plan on dropping a few meg of buffer RAM into it (takes cheap 72 pin non-ecc SIMMs).
I figure I won't have to change the toner for a *very* long time, and I can now print on el-cheapo copier paper, instead of the heavier stuff (though I might keep using it - I like the heft and feel of it, and it really doesn't cost that much more per ream). I try to tell everyone I can that the best printer they can get is an older-model HP Laserjet, like most businesses use - it will be a great investment if they can find one with a low page count (the only other printer I like as much as the HP Laserjet are Genicom Line Printers running greenbar - fast, loud, and nearly maintenance free!)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
As a professional computer tech, let me be the first to voice my support of Dell in entering the exciting market of consumer printing. The only reason I care is because Dell has a policy of repairing anything under their warranties themselves. At least until that warranty runs out...
Thank You Dell, for giving me the pleasure of looking forward to working on more 3 year old Dell printers, which are just cheap copies of standard Lexmark technology, which aren't may favorite printers to work on anyways... In fact, I scooped over 3.5 ounces of coagulated ink out of the purge (coagulation?) unit of a Compaq IJ750 (It's just a lexmark, with too many Q's on it)
Of all the companies out there, why lexmark? Couldn't you have just spit on me?
At our school we have quite a few HP 1100 printers. Thier pollicy states that if you use anything other than genuine HP toner cartridges the warrenty is void. I wouldn't be suprised if other printer manufacturers do the same, specificly Dell.
Of course, nothing can help you when you've got a faculty member who keeps trying to print transparencies in a laser printer. FFS!
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
{WISECRACK} SEE? If you'd been required to buy Ford gasoline for that Bronco, you'd never have had to worry about some dolt putting diesel fuel in it. Well, those OTHER people wouldn't have had to worry. Well... On the other hand, you'd have had to go without food, to pay for the gas...{/WISECRACK}
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
Well, first off HPs suck. I don't know how they got the reputation that they were so good, but my experience has been they don't last. I've had 3 of them, including one I bought for a rather expensive $350 around 5 years ago. It stopped working after a year. The next HP bit it too.
So I bought a Lexmark Z51 - it did decent printouts and it still works. But the ink is quite expensive.
But Canon - I got an s800, and it prints out beautiful pictures. Then it stopped working after only a year! Damn. But it turned out my kid had stuffed a pencil in a rather delicate part of the printer's anotomy, and once a pencil-ectmy was performed, the printer was all better! Able to survive a hostile environment. Plus the ink is really cheap. So there you have it - cheap, durable, and excellent output. And no Carly.
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
I think Dell has a better resume than you let on:
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/mostadmired
Dell Officially Launches Printer Line
Tue Mar 25,11:00 AM ET
Tom Krazit, IDG News Service
Dell Computer marked its entry into a market long dominated by rival Hewlett-Packard, announcing four printers for personal and workgroup use Tuesday. The company also provided details of a policy designed to encourage users to purchase ink replacement cartridges directly from Dell.
As always, Dell is positioning the printers against its competition based on price. For $139, customers can buy a combination printer, scanner, and copier with 4,800 pixels by 1,200 pixels resolution. A similar combination printer from HP costs as much as $199.99 with the same printing quality, but with faxing capability, according to HP's Web site.
"Dell's first foray into printers will be accepted as good-enough technology by Dell's many customers. As a result, we would expect Dell to quickly become a material player in the business printer marketplace," said Peter Kastner, chief research officer for Aberdeen Group in Boston.
Past the PC
Dell used to resell HP printers alongside its PCs, but announced last year it would enter the market in partnership with Lexmark International as part of a strategy to diversify its offerings beyond PCs.
The A940 is a color inkjet printer combined with a scanner and copier, while the three other stand-alone printers are laser models. The P1500 is designed for both professionals and consumers, and costs $289. Dell is also selling two workgroup level printers that come in both networked and non-networked versions. The S2500 costs $499, while the S2500n for networks costs $839.
HP is the acknowledged leader in the printing business, and commands a great deal of loyalty from its customers, Kastner said. The company wants to market itself as an innovation and technology leader, according to comments made by HP executives during a recent conference call.
Dell's focus has always been on pricing and efficiency. "[It] does not have to have the world's most innovative technology to meet most users' needs most of the time," Kastner said.
Inking Issues
Besides price, Dell thinks the software included with the printers sets them apart from the competition, said Tim Peter, vice president and general manager of Dell's imaging and printing group. Users receive prompts to replace cartridges when the ink level falls below a certain mark and a link to Dell's Web site where replacement black and color cartridges can be ordered appears on the user's screen. The workgroup printers send messages through the network to administrators, Peters said.
Printer vendors do everything they can to make users buy replacement cartridges from them, because the margins are high and the revenue stream lasts as long as the printer. However, many users choose to purchase replacement cartridges from other companies that refill and refurbish used cartridges, enabling them to offer the cartridges at prices far cheaper than the original manufacturer.
Lexmark is fighting back against third-party cartridge sales in a lawsuit against a component vendor, charging that company's technology contains proprietary Lexmark code that allows cartridges manufactured by other vendors to work in Lexmark printers. Without that code, the cartridges will not work in Lexmark printers. The Dell printers are not based on any of the Lexmark models that are part of that lawsuit, a Dell spokesperson said.
Cartridge Choices
Dell is offering users of P1500 or S2500 series printers a choice between standard cartridges or cartridges that come with a use and return policy, which obligates the user to ship the cartridge back to Dell for recycling under a licensing agreement that takes effect when the user breaks the seal on the cartridge's package. Purchasers of the standard cartridges are not bound by the licensing agreement.
The use and return cartridges contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is r
I'm surprised Dell does this. They don't have the infrastructure to have a relationship like this with the customer - and they won't be able to get stores to stock yet another set of ink cartridges(also, this wouldn't be consistent with Dell's way of operating). So how are customers (especially consumers) going to get their parts in a cheap[1] and timely manner?
[1](well, this is ink and thus a bit expensive... but fedex on single cartridges would make it that much worse)
I bought my HP laserjet (4 with PostScript and 10baseT) for 10 quid. (Actually I bought three.) I pay 60 quid a time for a 98X cartridge. So...
>It is the exact same way with cellphones, look at the cost of a unlocked (gsm) cellphone compared to the cost of getting the same phone under contract with a cellphone provider that locks you into the use of that one provider. Granted, some people do go for the unlocked phones, but the vast majority are fine with a locked phone from the provider because it is the same phone but much cheaper. Same with DirecTV who eat a loss of somewhere around $200 for each reciever they sell. Oh, and it only works with DirecTV.
All these things are pirated. All idiotic business models will attract some form of pirate to screw it up. It is only a matter of time. It has always been like this, and always will be.
The funny thing is in the case of things like DirecTV, the employment of those selling pirate equipment is larger than the amount employed in the sales of legal equipment by my estimation.
The minute I bought my phone at the discounted price I unlocked it. This was partly because the phone company was so inept they couldn't figure out the unlock code for me, so I figured I'd just do the damn thing myself. Now my phone is worth a bunch more, all for the price of a $20 cable.
Expect some company to make more money than Dell from their stupidity by "pirating" their chips in some fashion. Sooner, rather than later.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
You're full of shit. If someone at GM suggested a merger with Texaco they'd be laughed at. It's a total violation of the Sherman Act.
You lose, thanks for playing --asshole.
Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C.
Monopolizing trade a felony; penalty
Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court.
any gas car will just don't stop the engine
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Aren't those illegal in .EU?
I have to ask: have you ever seen what happens when you use refil an ink cartridge? I'm on my tenth refil of my current printer's cartridge. Just for kicks I printed a "photo quality" document on super-duper $.90/sheet paper just to see how the "off brand ink" tore up my printer. Guess what. Eight months later, my printer prints EXACTLY the same as before. I've saved about $ 240 by refilling...
-- $G
At least Dell won't be able to pull this stunt in the EU due to new
"electroscrap laws"
Here's what I'd like to see:
An InkJet Printer with a built in 16 ounce per color ink tank that has four little caps: one for each color. The tank should be refillable. And it woudl be nice to have a removable and cleanable print head.
OR
A cheap postscript-like color laser that costs less than $1000.
-- $G
To hell with them, its MY printer, i should not be prevented from buying what ink i want too, from whom ever i want...
I wont be reccomending Dell to any of my customers any longer. I already dont reccomend Microsoft, or other company that restrict the end user.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
In a related story, General Motors has released information regarding their new "Smart Nervous System" in new GM models to be released next year. Each replacement part will have a smart chip installed, which will interface with a CPU under the hood of the vehicle, and identify itself as a "Genuine GM Part". This will ensure the highest possible performance from your vehicle, and disallow lower quality parts from being installed. And to ensure that the parts are installed properly, they can only be installed by Certified GM Automotive Technicians.
No, this hasn't happened.
Yes, I can see it happening.
Welcome to the future, in all its glory.
"Well you're not Fiona Apple, and if you're not Fionna Apple, I don't give a rat's ass."
Get several lengths of 2mm plastic tubing. Stick one end in a ink refill bottle, and the other end into a hole in the ink cartridge, araldite to seal. Repeat for each colour. Put the ink bottle in a caddy on the side of the printer, and some guides so the refil staws/pipes move with the printhead.
The printer now draws its in from the refill bottles- a bottomless cartridge.
If ink conductivity is the trick, replace sensor with fixed value sensor.
First Reply.
That's pretty cool. I'm assuming you didn't stop it though, and were getting some kind of glowplug effect. I wonder if you could have just run it dry and gone back to gasoline?
funny munging
Most people don't realize the Japanese word "Epson" translates in English to "Paper Jam".
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Heh,
... but lexmark make shit inkjet printers.
... hmmm buttons.
... I am rambling :D
I got a HP deskjet 930C. Cost me much more than a cheap lexmark would have
It has massive and reasonably priced black ink cartridges that I can refill if I so desire. Colour is more expensive though, so I avoid using it when I don't need it.
And it is built much better than any cheap printer I have seen.
And it actually has a decent number of buttons on it, unlike most cheap inkjet printers
And it has a cool looking blue autoconfigure alignment light.
And it has a horizontal paper tray, which saves space and doesn't get your paper all bent up from sitting around for a few weeks.
And
'..contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is refilled and replaced in a Dell printer..'
my Epson has one of these chips as well. you just go buy a chip reset device and you're set.
Canon's bubblejet/inkjet printers are pretty decent, although they're not much different than most printers of that type (in that their life expectancy is pretty short.)
They make up for it in the ink department though - it's still not cheap, but most of the canon line features individual ink cartridges, so you just need to replace the ones that run empty. this is a good thing, as everyone else just makes one big "color" cartridge, designed to waste your money.
Can you imagine if color laserjets were like that? I'll bet the printer manufacturers would love it!
EOM
Vote with your wallet. Personally, I prefer HP printers. They work great. I have a 712c I purchased in 98 that is still cranking and produced fine quality print. My other 3 printers are also HP. You are all big boys and girls....if you don't like the movie, get up and leave. If you don't like the deal, don't purchase the printer.
Basil
HP is much better than Lexmark, but they still suck.
I've used HP, Lexmark, and Epson printers. We had an HP Deskjet 500 that is STILL working well today. It's well over a decade old, and built like a tank. (Newer HPs might not be so hot.)
I bought a Lexmark 5700 my freshman year in college. The Windows drivers were crap and there was zero Linux support. My parents had a 5700 that broke 5 days after the warranty expired.
We all have Epsons now. They work beautifully under Linux, are built pretty well, and easy to refill. (Note: Epson also is starting to use cartridges with chips, but these have already been "cracked" and were "cracked" quite some time ago.)
The only CIS (Continuous Ink Systems) I've seen have been for Epsons. I don't have one but for someone that prints a LOT they look cool. (Essentially the carts are replaced with tubes going to large bottles of ink that you can buy at bulk prices.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I buy ink in bulk and refill the carts.
It comes out to even less than what you state, and the quality rocks.
Also, with laser printers you don't have the option of continuous ink systems, archival inks, or specialized multi-greyscale inks. (People sell cartridges that replace the color inks in Epson with three shades of grey - Which makes for extremely high-quality greyscale printing.)
Laser printers that can print color are:
a) Expensive
b) Horrible at the job. I've never seen a color laser printer that printed a photo that wasn't completely ugly.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It will be most interesting to see what Dell has to say when the chips get reverse-engineered, considering this is how Dell / Compaq etc. got their start back in the day (reverse engineering IBM BIOS)
Funny, people in my office still use the term 'IBM-Compatible' when talking about Intel based PCs. Are printers next?
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
have one full unused cartridge ready. refill your old cartridge. open the case of your printer as to expose the inner parts.
now, the way cartridges keep ink information, is by keeping track of a variable or two on the chip on the CARTRIDGE. the printer first reads the value, waits for print commands, and after each print command it writes the new decrimented value onto the chip. so here's how to hack it.
first install the full cartridge and let the printer read the FULL value. then before sending any print commands, replace the full cartridge with a refilled or almost empty cartridge. print at will =D. the case of the printer had to be removed because manufacturers prevent this hack by placing the cartridge holder hiddin in the case after reading the value - before rewriting it.
of course since the printer will write back the FULL or almost full (depending on how much you printed) value onto the chip, you only need to do this once for every refill.
I'll start selling modchips for Lexmark printers that always report the ink as full, or decrement the counter as usual but have a reset button. Same idea as the PS2 modchips.
Sell 'em on ebay, just like the PS2 modchips.
Old Guy: "Yes."
YG: "But the terrorists only get a little bit of that money."
OG: "So you're saying that it's okay to buy cheap ink cartridges and support terrorism....a little?"
YG: "Good point. (I will never, ever buy cheap ink cartridges on the off chance that a nickel of that money will go to support terrorism because otherwise I'm a bad American. Thank you Old Guy, for showing me the light and saving me from the unholy path that I was moving toward, all in the interests of saving a few measly dollars. I wish all our children could hear these arguments and learn, like me, that buying cheap ink cartridges is immoral and means that you approve of the slaughter of children and puppies!")
The part in the parentheses is what I just wish they would go ahead and say in those anti-drug commercials. If you're going to be blatantly stupid, you might as well do it right.
Epson is written "fGfvf\f""(E pu so n) (change your Encoding to Japanese to view the characters correctly)in Japanese. These letters are Katakana and usually used to write words from foreign languages. While your post was obviously meant to be funny, it would be much better when "Epson" would sound like a real japanese word.
Seiko would be a much better example, it translates to stuff like:
sexual intercourse or crude; immature; unpolished
Jan
I'm still using my ASR33. No fancy paper and it uses ribbons. I do have to do my own service since the old guy who worked on them croaked. All I ever print are ASCII-graphics of Snoopy and Starship Enterprise anyway. Plus I like the way it smells.
Static Control fights against Lexmark
- 21 46345c.html
Printer maker sued; now Static is suing
SANFORD -- Static Control Components opened a new front in its fight to help recycle printer cartridges, seeking more than $100 million from a rival it alleges engaged in monopolistic practices.
http://newsobserver.com/business/story/2281215p
that's the stupidest idea i've ever seen
Then, being able to use generic cartridges will become a selling point, so the printer makers will need to make their printers compatible with the generic cartridges. That will increase the volume of generic cartridges, driving the price down, which increases demand for printers, which drives up their production volume, which (in the long run) drives down their prices and outcompeting the proprietary printers.
Eventually, proprietary printers will go the way of the Atari ST.
... The reason i buy a brand of printer is because i know i can get knock offs. Otherwise, it'll be extremely expensive to use my printer.
Today, i just bought an Epson CX3100.. it's a dream...
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
so now i have to boycott printers in addition to MPAA/RIAA?
what's next food?
What!? They're all going to catch fire? That's what happened to my ST. It's an Iraqi plot! Printers (of) mass destruct(ion).
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Dude! You got a Dell! Ummm... I might get more worked up about this issue if I were in any danger of owning a Dell computer or a Lexmark printer.
I didn't pay attention to politics until my country started to scare me. Recently.
Please RTFA, and try to understand it, too. There are three printers being offered by Dell. The low-end model is an inkjet. It's priced comparably to anyone else's inkjet all-in-ones, as near as I can tell. The ink is priced the same as well. They don't mention any sort of special chip in these ink cartridges.
The two laser models are the ones that need discussing. Both use TONER (NOT INK!) cartridges. Your options are to buy a more expensive, but not electronically hampered, cartridge, or a cheaper, chipped, cartridge.
Why is the cartridge with the chip cheaper? Because Dell knows they're going to get the hardware back. The hardware of the cartridge is more expensive than the toner, obviously, so if they are assured they'll get the hardware part back when you're done, they can sell it cheaper. They obviously don't want you refilling it yourself, or they've lost money. Hence, the chip.
Now I may be missing something here, but if you want to refill your toner cartridge, buy the more expensive one. Then you've paid for the whole thing and do as you please with it.
For those who need an analogy: if you buy the car, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. If you lease it, don't expect to be able to modify it any way you please.
The cheaper, chipped cartridges are basically on lease from Dell, with the understanding that you'll return it to them for a refill of toner.
As a side note, remember that these aren't inkjets. They're laser printers. As a general guideline in the printer industry, inkjets are for home users, lasers are for business users. Business users generally don't mind sticking to a single company for all their printing needs.
And when is the last time you saw a TONER, not INK refill kit advertised on late-night TV anyway?
It's all well and good to villify Lexmark for making a printer that doesn't allow third-party cartridges through a combination of a chip and the DMCA, but that's not what Dell has done here, according to the article. As far as it reads, you can refill the more expensive cartridge, or use a third-party one--you just can't refill the ones that they're effectively leasing to you.
I agree that the DMCA is a crappy law, but let's not let knee-jerk reactions get the best of us. And try to remember that inkjet printers and laser printers are two different things with two different types of supplies.
P.S. Had to post as anonymous coward! If you knew where I worked, you'd know why I don't want to log in.
I heard the newest Epsons won't let you print if only one color is out. Even if you don't care about being out of magenta, and just NEED a printout, the driver won't let you.
Plus, I heard that the ink was much more expensive. Of course, you can get the real deal archival inks for Epson (good luck for any other brand).
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
I've got a Decwriter III hooked to the network.
Paper is cheap, ribbon is really cheap. and I can type
on it as my console and get a continous log on fanfold
paper. And it goes brrrrrt, clunk, brrrrrrrrrt, clunk, clunk.
Hard to find these days but it was built to last for 30 years.
Having a printer with a keyboard is really handy, especially
for doing things like configuring a Cisco. Nobody has made
'em for years.
So I should stick to printers that use the OPCF (Open Printer Cartridge Format)? Can you tell me where else besides Fantasy Island I could buy them?
If they double the price tomorrow, they'll lose tons of customers, because there's 4 other printer company's out there (And if they all did it there'd be a price fixing lawsuit so fast folks heads would spin) Hell, the current market of "subsidized" printers virtually ensures this can't happen, If your Dell cartridge suddenly cost $90, why wouldn't you drop an extra $20 and get a new Epson with its $40 cartridges?
These printer manufacturers are evil. Yes they want profits, but they've all been in buisness for quite a while, and the model is far more developed than you realize. Low entry costs is key for a big segment, image quality and reliability are key to maintain your customer base. Refilled carts are bad for both of those.
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
I could see a bad refill damaging the print head, but on the printers I've seen, that's part of the cart, not the printer itself. How does it damage the engine? (unless, of course, it spews ink all over the insides and it gums up the works).
in win2k you can right click on _default.pif in c:/winnt to do the same thing :]
I hope Dell doesn't go the same path as other "winning" loss-leader strategeryists: * Microsoft (X-box unit, anyway) * I-Opener (anyone wanna buy my hacked one? :>)
This is a classic case of a company using technology and the DMCA to make a product that in actuality is anti-competitive behavior.
They put a chip in the cartrige so no one can make another. Then when someone reverse engineers it they use the DMCA to sue them.
and Mikey Dell. They are one company that I HOPE goes out of business. Then, maybe, we won't have to watch their stupid commercials.
Reading Wired the other day I saw the term disposable printers. Printers where it is cheaper to buy a new one than to replace the ink cartridges.
I confirmed this at Fry's, where you can get a printer for about $30 complete with ink cartridges. However the ink cartridges (when you combine the black and color) cost more than $30.
So my question is has anybody ever bought a printer and thrown it away without using it just to get cheaper ink?
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.
I wonder if someone could recycle the ink carts by refiling them and selling them to other people. Generally the protection on ink carts is done by the printer remembering the serial number of carts that have already been in it. I remember a previous story on slashdot where a vendor made a printer that remembered the last 3 carts so if you refilled them, you had to rotate them back to one it didn't remember.
My printer cost $13. Its cartridges cost $20. It came with 2 cartridges. Anyone see a problem here?
Exact same printer different firmware. Lexmark software will work if you change the firmware I can't say for sure on the laser line of printers these are supposedly the ones with chips though I am not sure that the chips actually made it into production. It's probably just a rumor so that Dell can sell carts more carts. I know the A940 is compatable with the X5150 with the only difference being the ink cart top i.e. Dell * * *** or Lexmark *** * * * * That is the only difference. The carts are compatable otherwise. Well, the revloutionary remind feature fills half the f**ing screen every time it pops up. And when you tell it you you've ordered it still keeps poping up until you replace the cart. Also, the ink doesnot accuratly gage how much is in the printer. It assumes that you can get x number of pages from each cart of ink. Enough said.
I wouldn't accept a Dell printer if they were giving them away. My hatred of Dell knows no bounds. This all started when the Dell on my desk at work broke one day, shutting off with a flashing amber LED on the power switch and a blank screen.
Upon ringing Dell and asking for a replacement PSU, I was asked to apply all manner of diagnostic procedures. Fair enough. This ended up with them asking me to replace the PSU. "Well I don't have another PSU, and that's why I rang you."
It took a couple more months and about a dozen phone calls before I managed to contact a Dell employee with a brain. He told me that a flashing amber LED means the PSU needs replacing, and sent one to me the next day.
My major complaint is most of the phone calls were never recorded in their log, so almost every time I rang I had to start from scratch.
Dell sucks ass.
Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
I know I'm posting this late. Either the article changed, or you guys missed it:
Nothing in the article says the Dell printers will be the Lexmark printers that require Lexmark only carts. They say Dell will prompt you to go to their web page to order, but specifically say:
" The Dell printers are not based on any of the Lexmark models that are part of that lawsuit, a Dell spokesperson said."
Read the article again, and try to find where they say the Dell printers are these cartridge discriminators.
This space intentionally left blank.
They had the first inkjets and colour injets, and their laser printers and plotters were solid enought that I imagine they could survive a nuclear strike. That continued through until the 4 series range - the last HP lasers worth owning. From the 5 on, and newer, they've been making the same plasticky, jam-prone, easily broken crap as anyone else.
Prior to the 5 series, an HP laser was my automatic recommendation. From the 5 onward, I wouldn't touch 'em with a shitty stick.
hehe... that reminds of an experience I had with a Tektronix Phaser. I worked for a large health insurance provider, and they had picked the tektronix phasers because they printed the company's logo the most precisely (ONLY reason!) these are the sort with the blocks of melted wax for printing- thermal wax or whatever they are called.
I had to move one of these, and it being my first time seeing one, I didn't know you have to let it cool off for about an hour for the wax to harden first. So I moved it, and unbeknownst to me it pour hot, molten wax all over the internal circuit boards. I toasted a $3500 printer! woohoo.
and, of course, every other time I had to move them, I'd turn them off- go away for an hour and come back, and they'd be turned back on again by someone who needed to print something. I had to resort to not only turning them off, posting a sign, but also taking the power cord and duct taping the floor outlets closed. (nobody but me would crawl on the floor and get dirty, apparently.)
What a blast. your mention of them brings back such fond memories...
EOM
I'm actually surprised you're not having problems with carts wearing out after 3-4 uses with the Lexmark as I was pretty sure they used a thermal inkjet technique just like HP's. (Essentially, a small portion of ink is vaporized and this drives the rest out the nozzle. HP and (I thought) Lexmark cartridges will start burning out those heating elements eventually. That's why HP and Lexmark carts have the nozzles built in to the cartridge.
Canon and Epson, on the other hand, use piezo-based technology. Except for potential clogging, their nozzle drivers will last forever. This is why Epson and Canon have the nozzles in the printer and use "dumb" ink tanks. (Which they can charge nearly as much as HP does for their cartridges, and make more profit because they're simpler.)
The only issue you might have with refilling Canon and Epson carts too often is that sometimes remnant ink can dry and that dried ink in the cart will alter the consistency of the refills.
Continuous ink systems remove this problem by ditching the sponge in the cartridge and replacing it by a tube going directly to the ink bottle.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?