New Red Hat Linux Beta: Severn

Torrent file? by jsvesnik · 2003-07-21 03:03 · Score: 4, Funny

Where's the torrent file?

Re:Torrent file? by JofCoRe · 2003-07-21 03:06 · Score: 1

that's actually what I'm waiting for too :) I haven't been able to pull it down yet... but hoping that somebody will get a torrent up soon and then I can...

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Place sig here.
Re:Torrent file? by brent_linux · 2003-07-21 03:08 · Score: 5, Informative

http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/

Just the Binary ISOs
Re:Torrent file? by JofCoRe · 2003-07-21 03:10 · Score: 5, Informative

thanx to an AC a few posts down:

http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/

And more specifically:

severn-i386-disc1.iso.torrent
severn-i386-disc2.iso.torrent
severn-i386-disc3.iso.torrent

orAll severn Binary isos in one torrent directory

Theres torrent linx to the SRPMS there too.
Thanx AC!

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Place sig here.
Re:Torrent file? by slimsam1 · 2003-07-21 04:41 · Score: 0

Keep your clients open, people... My upload is going at 30k, my download is 3k. That's no fun. (on cable, normally I get 260 down 40 up)

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Re:Torrent file? by Mr_Icon · 2003-07-21 04:44 · Score: 2, Funny

That was Seth Vidal who is too lazy to get a /. account. :)

--
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.

Seven? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:03 · Score: 5, Funny

Didn't RedHat 7 get released already? I am so confused.

Re:Seven? by hafree · 2003-07-21 04:24 · Score: 2, Funny

It's been at least a month since Redhat 9 was released, shouldn't we be on release 13 or so by now? Of course that would mean that Redhat officially stopped supporting anything prior to 11 or 12 by now...
Re:Seven? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 07:53 · Score: 0

Didn't RedHat 7 get released already?
Yes. They're up to 9.something, so unless they make this one 10.0, it will be SEVERN OF NINE, an obvious attempt to get the average geek to want it even more.
Posting AC from work (but you know who I am)
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO
Re:Seven? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 16:49 · Score: 0

> Didn't RedHat 7 get released already?

You mean Linux 7 right?

but but but.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:04 · Score: 3, Funny

(heard all over Munich) "Ver ist Klippy?!"

Re:but but but.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:48 · Score: 0

Vas ist der Redhat?
Re:but but but.. by Havokmon · 2003-07-21 03:48 · Score: 1

(heard all over Munich) "Ver ist Klippy?!"
(shakes head) Even I got this right without looking.
"VO ist Klippy?!"
Bablefish ist ihr freund.

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Re:but but but.. by uwmurray · 2003-07-21 04:03 · Score: 2, Funny

Actually, you didn't get this right.
It is 'Wo is Klippy?!' 'w' not a 'v'. Babelfish ist kein Freund.
Re:but but but.. by alistair · 2003-07-21 04:10 · Score: 1

or perhaps "Was ist Red Hat?" since us good Europeans selected SuSE rather than Red Hat in this instance.
Re:but but but.. by Havokmon · 2003-07-21 04:18 · Score: 1

Actually, you didn't get this right.
It is 'Wo is Klippy?!' 'w' not a 'v'. Babelfish ist kein Freund.
Dah you're right, and I didn't even notice when I checked Babelfish.
My grandmother would be so disappointed ;)

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Re:but but but.. by Ed+Avis · 2003-07-21 05:08 · Score: 1

But '_Who_ is Clippy?' is a much more interesting question.

Anyway, Klippy would presumably be the cease-n-desist-prone 'Assistant' in some future version of KDE...

(As others said, it's 'wer' not 'ver'. I think.)

--
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Re:but but but.. by owenb · 2003-07-21 05:16 · Score: 1

Don't you mean 'Babelfish ist dein Freund.' or 'Babelfish ist Ihr Freund.'?

'Babelfish ist kein Freund.' means the opposite - it's not a friend.
Re:but but but.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 05:41 · Score: 0

here you go
Re:but but but.. by hcat · 2003-07-21 06:04 · Score: 1

wrong again... it's 'Wo ist Klippy?!'
Re:but but but.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 07:24 · Score: 0

not in Munich
Re:but but but.. by jonadab · 2003-07-22 12:07 · Score: 1

Klippy ist en das vigor rpm. HTH.HAND.

--
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.

Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? by sebol · 2003-07-21 03:04 · Score: 0

hmmm hmmm

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-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)

Re:Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? by sebol · 2003-07-21 03:09 · Score: 1

The release notes state about gcc 3.2.3
but slashdot state it as gcc 3.3

so it should be binary compatible.

--
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
Re:Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? by pp · 2003-07-21 03:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

Yes, should work just fine both ways

One issue that might affect some people is the exec-shield anti-stack overflow technology, which
most notably doesn't play will with wine and alsalib (latter might be fixed nowadays, alsalib used to use a gcc feature that made it place code on the stack).

You can easily disable it through /proc, or use a program called chstk to enable executable stacks for specific programs. It's not included in this beta, but you can grab it from
here
Re:Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 07:01 · Score: 0

exec-shield anti-stack overflow technology

That's the precursor to photon torpedos right?
Re:Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 07:59 · Score: 0

Hmmm.. I'd expect the new beta to include chstk in the kernel-utils RPM...

Version numbering by erlando · 2003-07-21 03:05 · Score: 3, Funny

With RedHat's latest sprint version wise (7.3->8.0->9.0) it's probably a safe bet to say that this release is going to be RedHat 10.0. Or maybe "RedHat X"? Roman numerals are popular this time of year.. ;o)

--
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

Re:Version numbering by Erwos · 2003-07-21 03:10 · Score: 1

It's just 9 now, not 9.0. So, really, "version sprinting" is only cosmetic, unless you consider i++ a huge jump. I don't.

-Erwos

--
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Re:Version numbering by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:23 · Score: 0

Considering the fact that they are planning to integrate version 2.6 of the kernel in the release, I think calling it version 10 rather than 9.1 would make sense.
Re:Version numbering by setzman · 2003-07-21 03:41 · Score: 2, Funny

That would be better than RedHat XP...

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C:\>
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-21 03:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yes. A new kernel version is a definite good reason for a whole version increment. But when they called it 9 instead of 9.0, I considered it a very bad sign. True, they were probably expecting the new kernel to be ready for 10, or, I rather hope, 10.0, but it seems like a statement of "We won't have any intermediate bug fix releases", and that bothers me.

OTOH, a lot is going to depend on what their new release style is. Assuming that everyone has a broadband connection and doesn't pay for bits downloaded is... optomistic at best. Perhaps they aren't interested in anyone else as a customer (if you can't pay for a broadband connection, you're unlikely to buy an Enterprise Edition), but they might consider that developers are also an important market for them. Not so much as a source of cash, but as a source of skills that make their product useful to enterprises. And many of them *don't* have broadband connections.

Well, there's Mandrake and CheapBytes, but Mandrake is diverging more and more from the Red Hat model (nothing deep, but the tools are different, some of the directories are different, etc.) OK. There's CheapBytes. But CheapBytes (etc.) has no particular brand loyalty to Red Hat. They will sell you whatever the hot distro is. And Red Hat has explicitly told them "Don't use our name." That's fair, but it cuts down on the advertising exposure.

Altogether, I think that they still need to make boxed sets. And that if they don't then they'll regret it. But this isn't the same thing as paying stores to carry it on their shelves. That's probably something of dubious value. Perhaps they should set up a JIT manual printing, disk burning and boxing shop. And only make as many as they have orders for. They'll need to ensure that what comes out is good quality, but there wouldn't be any excess (or not much). There's a company that was trying to get a JIT book printer into bookstores (distribution of the right to copy was a problem), so they might be glad for a sale. And CD burners aren't that hard to come by, especially if your forcast is that you won't need thousands of copies.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by kasperd · 2003-07-21 04:07 · Score: 1

A new kernel version is a definite good reason for a whole version increment.

Had they used kernel version 2.6.0-test1, I would have agreed with you. But going from 2.4.20 to 2.4.21 really isn't that big a step. Consider that there are more differences between the kernel which came with the distribution and what you will soon be running if you just keep up with the security updates. For example RH7.1 when released was using kernel version 2.4.2-2, if you have installed the security updates, you will now be running kernel version 2.4.20-19.7.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Re:Version numbering by GauteL · 2003-07-21 04:11 · Score: 2, Funny

That is not safe bet to say at all.

Red Hat 9 was actually a release that broke some backwards compatibility, mainly due to the new kernel threads.

It might just be that this next release is Red Hat 9.1.
Re:Version numbering by Zathrus · 2003-07-21 04:25 · Score: 2, Informative

But when they called it 9 instead of 9.0, I considered it a very bad sign.

So when they released "Redhat 7" did you consider it a bad sign then as well? There was no 7.0 -- there was 7, 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3. Any reference to "7.0" was either not following the official Redhat naming scheme or was changed after 7.1 was released.

As has been stated many times before (to no apparent effect... but this is /., so why am I surprised?), Redhat increments major version numbers only when there is binary incompatibility. Right now there's no reason not to make this 9.1. If they integrate the 2.6 kernel later on in beta, however, then this will probably need to become Redhat 10.
Re:Version numbering by Wesley+Felter · 2003-07-21 04:44 · Score: 2, Informative

If you look at the Web page, Red Hat Linux X (Cambridge) will not include 2.6. The first version with 2.6 is Cambridge++.
Re:Version numbering by weave · 2003-07-21 05:00 · Score: 1

Wonderful, which means RHCE certs are near worthless because they are only "current' for two major releases. I got my RHCE for RH 8.0 this April (they switched to RH 9 the very next release).
I'm certainly not going to shell out $750 every year to keep my RHCE current. Bastards...
Besides, the RHCE thing makes no sense. If RH 9 is consumer only, why do they do RHCE certifications for the consumer version and not the advanced server products?
Re:Version numbering by stefanlasiewski · 2003-07-21 05:26 · Score: 1

Or maybe "RedHat X"?

It's clear that RedHat's new release strategy is designed to confuse as many new users as possible. Therefore, I bet the new RedHat release mix numbering systems and will be

RedHat X.0 (Ecks dot zero)

--
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Re:Version numbering by AlanS2002 · 2003-07-21 05:28 · Score: 1

As has been stated many times before (to no apparent effect... but this is /., so why am I surprised?), Redhat increments major version numbers only when there is binary incompatibility. Right now there's no reason not to make this 9.1. If they integrate the 2.6 kernel later on in beta, however, then this will probably need to become Redhat 10.

I think this will be version 10 or X (or some permutation there of) regardless of the kernel version (or any other changes, binary compatiblity or otherwise). I've read press releases and interviews from Red Hat people that pretty much state that the consumer releases from now on will be test beds for the enterprise releases. Hense the jump from 8 to 9 and as far as I can tell the likely jump from 9 to 10 (or whatever versioning system).

--
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
Re:Version numbering by buchanmilne · 2003-07-21 06:08 · Score: 3, Informative

but Mandrake is diverging more and more from the Red Hat model

You say that like it's a bad thing to have decent package management software (urpmi[e,i,q,f] and rpmdrake), multiple 3rd-party software "media" available (plf.zarb.org, jpackage.org), a sane library naming convention (so you can happily have two versions of the same library installed), solid community involvement (yes, some contributors who know their stuff maintain packages in the main distribution), and an open development process (the cooker distribution itself, the mailing lists, cvs, wiki).

Actually, with their recent announcement, it seems more like RH is converging on the Mandrake model ...
Re:Version numbering by L.J.+Hanson · 2003-07-21 06:20 · Score: 1

RHCE is tied to Red Hat Advanced Server not the desktop release. This was worked out when 9.0 came out.

L.J. Hanson
Re:Version numbering by jasonbowen · 2003-07-21 06:22 · Score: 1

Can you back up your ideas with information from Redhats quarterly reports? Redhat is being very vocal about making good money from the Enterprise line.
Re:Version numbering by Crispy+Critters · 2003-07-21 06:51 · Score: 1

"A new kernel version is a definite good reason for a whole version increment. But when they called it 9 instead of 9.0, I considered it a very bad sign."
It may not be that complicated. How big is the difference between a Redhat 7.1 with all the updates and Redhat 7.3 with all the updates? Not very much. But it must be expensive to support so many versions concurrently. I bet they will still sell CDs. They would be insane to assume every home user will download the isos. OTOH it is not so far out to let people download all the updates and dispense with x.0, x.1, x.2... Or even offer a CD of all the updates for $3, new one every month, for those who don't want to download.
Re:Version numbering by Anixamander · 2003-07-21 07:56 · Score: 2, Funny

With RedHat's latest sprint version wise (7.3->8.0->9.0) it's probably a safe bet to say that this release is going to be RedHat 10.0. Or maybe "RedHat X"?

If it is version 10 it will almost surely be called RedHat X, as RedHat 10 would be read by all the ubergeeks as "RedHat 2". This of course also explains why Apple uses the Roman numeral, because if they didn't OS 10 would be read as OS 2, causing IBM, and by extension SCO, to sue them.

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
Re:Version numbering by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 08:55 · Score: 0

When can we see a version called RedneX linux which can be used to do power management on mobile homes or something?
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-21 09:21 · Score: 1

I didn't buy version 7. I was probably looking at other distributions then. I did end up buying 7.3 (or possibly it was 7.2).

Yes, I probably would have considered it a bad sign. I would have been wrong. And it's sounding like I was wrong this time. (I think the link was http://rhl.redhat.com .) But they left it hanging for quite awhile this time without comment (actually with unsettling comments, but I can't pull them up), so if they'd felt the concern then they could have answered it.

One clear statement is that for every full release there will be iso's released. And that sometimes, at least, there will be boxed sets available for purchase, just not via the retail channel. (That's probably quite reasonable. I've never bought a copy of Red Hat that way, and I could have.) I do hope, however, that they, at least almost always, make boxed sets available for purchase from their web site.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-21 09:23 · Score: 1

Actually, I say this like it's a bad thing from Red Hat's point of view if they are depending on familiarity with Mandrake to translate into use of Red Hat. And I feel that it is.

This doesn't mean that it's a bad thing for either Linux or Mandrake. It's probably a very good thing for Mandrake.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-21 09:27 · Score: 1

According to the roadmap below http://rhl.redhat.com, they are planning a release with the 2.6 kernel this October. Or sooner. (They're calling that version Cambridge [or possibly Cambridge++].) Whether this is the same version as the current beta...

If it isn't, they've really upped their rev. cycle.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-21 09:36 · Score: 1

As of today (monday), there has been an announcement that they will be releasing iso's of all releases, and that for some of them they will also be selling boxed sets. Just not throught the retail distribution channel.

To me the difference between a 7 (or 7.0) and a 7.1 (etc.) is that the x.0 series always contained large changes that affected the way the base system operated. And could be expected to be a bit unstable, but probably a lot better in some ways. But the bugs that inevitably crept in would be exorcised during the upgrades to the higher point releases. So if I were installing on a system of someone who was frighted by error messages, I would specifically avoid the x.0 releases. (And, also, so I was more interested in the features of the x.0 releases.)

If there aren't any recognizable stabilizing releases anymore, then I'll need to drastically slow down my rate of installations. (I don't have that many spare systems to run as test systems.) It's not like these are people who could EVER justify running the Enterprise Edition. These are replacements for Win95 systems.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by kasperd · 2003-07-21 09:49 · Score: 1

planning a release with the 2.6 kernel this October.

I found this page. Doesn't mention a date for the 2.6 kernel though.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Re:Version numbering by Crispy+Critters · 2003-07-21 09:58 · Score: 1

"To me the difference between a 7 (or 7.0) and a 7.1 (etc.) is that the x.0 series always contained large changes that affected the way the base system operated. And could be expected to be a bit unstable. But the bugs that inevitably crept in would be exorcised during the upgrades to the higher point releases."
That is a very good point. I was looking forward to RH 8.1 for that very reason. Maybe this is part of the problem: too many people avoiding x.0 releases because of the perception (true or not) that they aren't quite finished yet. They will need to imply somehow that these releases are better than the old x.0 releases (and I hope it is true).
Re:Version numbering by jroysdon · 2003-07-21 13:28 · Score: 1

If you look at the directory structure, there is a clear difference between all previous versions before "9". All others did include a ".0" version even if marketing didn't hype dot-oh (most companies don't like to talk about the dot-oh part of a new release):

http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/
Re:Version numbering by packetgeek · 2003-07-21 14:54 · Score: 1

From the RHLP schedule page:
Cambridge

* July 21 2003 - Beta 1 release
* August 8 2003 - Stop Ship Mode starts (only StopShip bug fixes after this point)
* August 18 2003 - Beta 2 release
* September 15 2003 - Beta 3 release
* October 6 2003 - General Availability

Cambridge++
No dates set yet, but a driving goal or defining characteristic will be the 2.6 Linux kernel -- unless the 2.6 Linux kernel takes too long to arrive. That is, we'll shorten the schedule to accomodate an earlier release of the 2.6 kernel, but not lengthen it to accomodate a later release of the 2.6 kernel.

----- end of copy ------

Here they are calling it Cambridge rather than Severn (even at the beta stage of the schedule), but I guess moving to the 2.6 kernel would justify incrementing the major version number :-)

--

Please be patient, I'm a work in progress! --Alan Jackson
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-22 03:15 · Score: 1

That's the link. They aren't saying when the 2.6 kernel will be out, because they aren't doing that. (They do say that if the 2.6 kernel comes out early, then so will they.)

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by salimma · 2003-07-22 03:28 · Score: 1

Altogether, I think that they still need to make boxed sets. And that if they don't then they'll regret it. But this isn't the same thing as paying stores to carry it on their shelves.

Exactly - and according to their FAQ, that is exactly what is planned:

Q: How will the Red Hat Linux project be made available to the public?

A:Red Hat Linux releases will be available as ISO images for both CDs and DVDs, and will also be available through other channels such as online sales of physical media; distribution at Linux User Groups, included in magazines and in books, and maybe even handed out at trade shows. The bits may be actively pushed into content sharing networks such as BitTorrent. (Not all mechanisms will be used for each release, except that ISOs will be freely available for each release.)

--
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
Re:Version numbering by HiThere · 2003-07-22 03:32 · Score: 1

I didn't avoid them for my systems, but rather for those of other people that I knew to be problem averse. If I can't use the system for the other people, then I need to put my time in getting familiar with a system that I *will* be able to use.

And that looses Red Hat a (tiny) bit of support. But I was one of the early voices at work, and I suggested Red Hat, and we eventually went with Red Hat. If I'd pushed another distribution, I can't say with certainty that we would have gone that way. But we might have. Everyone was talking about how stable Debian was, and how easy it was to manage, so it wasn't a foregone conclusion that I would promote Red Hat for the server.

Now extrapolate into the future. Others will be in the same position that I have been in. How will they choose? (Right now I have LibraNet [==Debian] installed on my personal desktop. It was as easy to install as Red Hat, and has given me no more problems than the Red Hat systems that I also use. And it's cheaper to upgrade. Why *wouldn't* I reccommend it?) And Debian has a stable branch AND a testing branch (as well as an unstable branch), so each system can be configured to that system's degree of instability tolerance.

But if, as is possible, Red Hat is moving towards a system where it only makes BOXED SETS of the stable releases, and sells/makes available CDs & ISOs of the development releases then it could accomplish the same function as their earlier naming convention. It's not clear that that's what they're doing....but it could be. It sounds like Cambridge, or Cambridge++, is intended to be the first release of a RH distribution with a 2.6 kernel. And that it *won't* be a boxed set. But that some releases will be boxed sets.

OK. The boxed sets would, under this projection, be the stable releases, the x.1..n releases. And for the x.0 releases there wouldn't be a boxed set. This would tend to keep them (relatively) isolated from new users, who would be less able to deal with problems.

But it's a guess. They aren't really saying. And the uncertainty makes it difficult to plan on them.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Version numbering by juhaz · 2003-07-22 06:49 · Score: 1

Up2date is decent enough for RH errata (their servers are sometimes quite laggy but that's not the softwares fault...)

And there are plenty of good 3rd party software available (Fedora, Freshrpms, Matthew Hall's rpms, etc...), sure you can't use up2date with these, but if you're going to install 3rd party software, then one more software (apt-rpm or yum) doesn't matter anyway.
Re:Version numbering by kasperd · 2003-07-22 10:03 · Score: 1

Why wait for 2.6.0 when 2.6.0-test1 is ready for testing?

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?

Versions by avalys · 2003-07-21 03:06 · Score: 1, Redundant

What happened to their versioning system? I thought they were moving towards purely integer-based releases. Shouldn't this be RedHat 10 Beta?

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This space intentionally left blank.

Re:Versions by IamTheRealMike · 2003-07-21 03:10 · Score: 1

No, the reason for the jump from 8.0 -> 9 was due to the introduction of NPTL.
For all I know, it may go from 9 to 10, because of the big changes in project direction - see here. But, when the major number changes, it's due to a major change, that much is certain.
Re:Versions by mahdi13 · 2003-07-21 03:13 · Score: 4, Informative

The RH9 beta was also called 8.0.93 as this is 9.0.93

Standard release practice, we won't know if it's a 9.1 or 10 until they release it =)
Also they went RH8 to RH9 with no point release because there binary breakage in the packages (major system changes) which made lots of RH8 packages incompatable with the latest release

--
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Re:Versions by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:34 · Score: 0

test
Re:Versions by deanpole · 2003-07-21 03:50 · Score: 1, Informative

The next Red Hat will be "X" in October. Look for books
It is a damn confusing name. Eleven wouldn't be much better, so I say skip to twelve.
Re:Versions by Crispy+Critters · 2003-07-21 06:40 · Score: 1

"we won't know if it's a 9.1 or 10 until they release it =)"
Or, heaven help us, Redhat X.
Re:Versions by cpeterso · 2003-07-21 08:23 · Score: 1

There are already indications that the next version will be called "Red Hat Linux X". Red Hat is copy-catting Mac OS X. Amazon and B&N's web sites already have pre-release book pages for "Red Hat® Linux® "X" For Dummies" .

--
cpeterso

"...updated Evolution..." by jvmatthe · 2003-07-21 03:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

I didn't see anything in the notes about this (sorry if I missed it) but is this a GTK2 version? This is the last GTK1 app that I'm still using, and I'd love to upgrade if a GTK2 version is included in this install.

--
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy

Re:"...updated Evolution..." by Bernie · 2003-07-21 03:16 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes, it's GTK2--ironically Gimp is one of the last GTK1 users!
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 0

Upgrade to Evolution 1.4, it uses GTK2 and is available on Ximian's web site.
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by hey · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Nice in-the-know use of "ironically".
But maybe not since the first version of GTK (the Gimp Tool Kit) had everything that Gimp needed. Why would they bother upgrading. Just guessing.
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by chabotc · 2003-07-21 03:44 · Score: 2, Funny

Bad gues, gimp is migrating to gtk2 but is currently still in beta. The latest version (1.3.16) which uses gtk2 can be found here: http://www.gimp.org/devel_ver.html
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by checkyoulater · 2003-07-21 04:04 · Score: 1

Yes, it's GTK2--ironically Gimp is one of the last GTK1 users!

I don't think so. I installed a GTK2 version of Gimp on Gentoo last week. I know this for a fact because I do not have GTK1 installed. I'm pretty sure it is beta, but still GTK2. Called the politically incorrect version, according to the splash screen.

--
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by Ender+Ryan · 2003-07-21 04:39 · Score: 1

The development version of The GIMP uses GTK2, and to good effect to. Some versions are more stable than others, and overall I've had good luck with the GTK2 development version of The GIMP.
YMMV.

--
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Re:"...updated Evolution..." by jvmatthe · 2003-07-21 04:40 · Score: 1

Latest official update for Evolution from Red Hat (for RH9) is evolution-1.2.2-5 dated 20 March 2003. There is a RawHide version, but that doesn't translate into "releasing Evolution 1.4 for RH9". Thanks for playing, AC.

--
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy

No Galeon? by Erwos · 2003-07-21 03:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

I see that they removed Galeon. How does Epiphany stack up to it right now?

I also like the option of a graphical boot... soothes the nerves of less-knowledgable people who will wonder why X, Y, or Z service is coming up.

Hopefully they'll add some more graphical configuration stuff for the system. I've always liked their style with it.

-Erwos

--
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.

Re:No Galeon? by Xpilot · 2003-07-21 03:13 · Score: 4, Funny

I also like the option of a graphical boot... soothes the nerves of less-knowledgable people who will wonder why X, Y, or Z service is coming up.

I've never understood why this is so. Even back in the day when I was a clueless newbie, I found those messages to be really cool. It was like the computer was doing...cool computery things, just like in the movies.

--
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Re:No Galeon? by baywulf · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.
Re:No Galeon? by tomstdenis · 2003-07-21 03:27 · Score: 4, Funny

Funny or not, same thing here.

Also keep in mind that things like VESA were still new and shiny when Linux first came about. So at best you would have a 640x480x16color bootup instead of text messages.

Might as well have them. What I find lacking are the joke messages with useless twirling /-\| thingies...

like

pruning IP lateral sensors.......done
establishing networking matrix...../ :-)

Just to throw people off. Plus it would be funny to see how many "IT experts" that "read about many things" will go about talking about it. "Yeah, well my Duron 4Ghz can establish the network matrix faster than your 200Mhz ARM box... hahaha!"

Tom

--
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Re:No Galeon? by lokedhs · 2003-07-21 03:33 · Score: 1

Last I tried Ephipany is lacked the ability to disable popups. Needless to say, it lasted about 5 minutes on my system.
If you, like me, forgot just how painful popups are, make sure Ephipany has implemented the popup blocking before trying it. I still have nightmares after this experience.
Re:No Galeon? by leifm · 2003-07-21 03:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

In my limited experience with RH9 they had covered most of the bases as far as GUI config stuff goes, but those frontends could definately be more intuitive and less prone to crashing. I'd actually rather see the current GUI config things mature a bit rather than adding more new ones.

--

"Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
Re:No Galeon? by geomon · 2003-07-21 03:37 · Score: 1

Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.

AND they get great looking people to operate the machines.

/homer mode on

Mmmmmm...Carrie Ann Moss (drools)

/homer mode off

--
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Re:No Galeon? by Xpilot · 2003-07-21 03:40 · Score: 1

Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.

Perhaps, but most of the time it's just some pseudo-technical looking text scrolling past in some fancy graphical font (see The Matrix).

When Windows '95 came out, some of the trade publications were drooling over the fact that the computer no longer booted up into "scary DOS messages", instead displaying therapeutic pictures of clouds. Bleh. At that point I decided Windows was ghey, and started to appreciate the nice technical-looking Linux.

--
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Re:No Galeon? by chabotc · 2003-07-21 03:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think you put your finger right on the problem.. For people who are not intimidated it's 'cool' but for many others not understanding it is confusing and/or intimidating; They don't understand computers and prob. don't want to..

The graphical representation of the bootup info makes the user 'understand' more and makes it less intimidating.. Much like a GUI makes a computer easier to use then text mode programs ;-)
Re:No Galeon? by kenthorvath · 2003-07-21 04:01 · Score: 1

Last I tried Ephipany is lacked the ability to disable popups.

According to this screen shot taken from the website, it does - at least in version 0.80.
Re:No Galeon? by 4of12 · 2003-07-21 04:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

it is confusing and/or intimidating;

So computers are going the way of automobiles.

In the old days, you'd have an oil pressure gauge and an oil temperature gauge and you'd be able to tell pretty quick not only if something was wrong, but have a good idea of exactly what was wrong. And you'd be able to fix it yourself.

But scary technical looking gauges on automobiles have gone away. Now, you'll get complicated behind-the-scenes Boolean evaluation from multiple sensors feeding into a microprocessor that results in a "Check Engine" light, which will mean that you'll take it into a specialist for precise diagnosis and repair. You probably won't repair it yourself.

The analogy continues.

My old Honda had a Check Engine light that would flip on going down steep hills for extended times (sounds suspiciously like the sensor was in the back of the oilpan, eh?) but would reset if I turned the car off and restarted it. And guess what most people do to their Windows computers start displaying "Check Engine" lights? You got it - power cycle!]

I'm one of the people that likes the more detailed diagnostics, even if they give a scary impression of a high performance race car about to explode to the casual user (My God - look at those packet collisions!)

Let distro makers hide those messages behind clouds or penguins, but make it real easy to see those diagnostics and you'll get a lot more backyard mechanics improving the vehicle.

As a piece of advice for distro makers that hide behind soothing graphical "Check Engine" lights: make sure your system readily handles sudden, abrupt power cycling at any time, but especially after encountering other problems.

--
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Re:No Galeon? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:52 · Score: 0

I agree, I even like the numerical status LED's on the old RS6000's! I could actually tell what was going on from them durning the hardware diag's unlike with most PC's where all you get is the psudo-memory check.
Re:No Galeon? by owenb · 2003-07-21 05:23 · Score: 2, Funny

pruning IP lateral sensors.......done
establishing networking matrix...../ :-)

Reticulating splines?
Re:No Galeon? by archen · 2003-07-21 06:21 · Score: 2, Funny

displaying therapeutic pictures of clouds

As much as 95 needed to be (re)booted people could use as much therapy as they could get.
Re:No Galeon? by Crispy+Critters · 2003-07-21 06:24 · Score: 1

"So computers are going the way of automobiles."
Here's the part I don't understand: This happened a long time ago, in the 80's for macs and in the 90's for windows. It's one of the main reasons some of us switched to Linux in the first place! To know what's going on and to be able to fix it.
Every time you add another layer of abstraction, you add the possibility that some wacky confusing problem is in the new layer, in its interpretation of what is happening at the lower levels. (Kind of like a program reporting "file not found" if it fails to open a file for writing because the file exists but the user lacks write permission.) If these things get bad, then you lose the ability to fix things and you get to the stage where repairs consist of wipe the system and reinstall from scratch.
Why is this? Because companies like Redhat and Ximian want to make money off of Linux by using it to replace windows (not saying that's bad, just true). For people who don't want a windows-like environment, these changes are heading in the wrong direction. (please don't tell me I have to switch to debian :-).
Re:No Galeon? by archen · 2003-07-21 06:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think you're close but not totally on the mark. Evil looking command prompt messages (that I like) should definatly be optional (probably off by default as well) but there needs to be some sort of feedback. The worst thing I can say about the first couple cars I drove was the lack of status. All I had was "idiot lights". You know, the light comes on saying "Hey dude, you're out of oil" right around the time your engine screaches to a halt. The car I have now (an integra) has simple status gages. I couldn't tell you what the oil temp is, but I can tell you if it's really weird that the car is running hot (Honda's tend to be pretty solid temperature wise).

One of the worst things that can happen to computing started with Windows 95. A dumb ass screen where you have an animation at the bottom to tell you if your computer is frozen. That tells you nothing! Apple got it right with a friendly looking status screen coupled with some messages that say what's going on. A person may not know what sendmail is, but if it stops there you have something to go on.
Re:No Galeon? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 06:38 · Score: 0

What I find lacking are the joke messages with useless twirling /-\| thingies...

I once knew somebody who was hired to do some grunt-level programming for a small company.

After three months, all he had to show his bosses was a DOS-based (this was three years ago) startup screen that displayed all of these fancy messages, and, yes, a twirly thing. The pitiful thing was that he hadn't managed to write the program from scratch, he had copied & pasted the majority of it from a college assignment that he got somebody else to do.

After they started asking for results, he started panicking. He offered to pay me quite well to write it, so I sat down and asked him to outline the requirements.

He didn't know. That's right, he never bothered finding out what the program was supposed to do. So now, he was faced with either owning up and asking them what he was supposed to be doing for the past three months, or running off. He ran off.
Re:No Galeon? by Issue9mm · 2003-07-21 08:00 · Score: 1

Just as an aside, and completely off the mark, most cars today allow you to read the check engine lights without any expensive diagnostic machines.

I recently had some problems with my Dodge Caravan, for example, and it sat in my driveway for a week before I had the opportunity to do anything with it. A friend of mine and I then checked the trouble codes as per the instruction manual. To check them, I just to turn the ignition to "On", then "Off" 5 times quickly. This then "blinked" the check engine light a number of times, and I was able to match the blinks up with a list of trouble codes.

As it happens, it reported a bad camshaft position sensor. Well, as I replaced that, it turned out to be a broken timing belt (I suppose if the camshaft isn't turning, the sensor would show bad), but the point is that those diagnostics are there a lot of the time, you just have to know where they're at.

Hopefully redhat keeps them intact as well.

-9mm-
Re:No Galeon? by 42forty-two42 · 2003-07-21 09:39 · Score: 2, Informative

(please don't tell me I have to switch to debian :-).

You don't.
Re:No Galeon? by NateTech · 2003-07-21 17:14 · Score: 1

They probably also don't need a computer for whatever it is that they're doing. Pencil, paper, and a filing cabinet are probably faster for these people.

Let them be intimidated. Who cares?

For those willing to put in a minimal amount of effort and learn how to use the machine (key word... machine...) they'll reap the benefits if there are any to be had in their particular endeavour.

For those willing to learn, let them pay those willing to teach an appropriate wage also.

And for those of us who just get things done with our computers, let's stop worrying about if Aunt Tillie likes the bloody thing. It's a box with a display, a keyboard, some storage devices, and some wires to her, and that's all it needs to be.

--
+++OK ATH
Re:No Galeon? by chgros · 2003-07-21 19:16 · Score: 1

DOS-based (this was three years ago)
Even 3 years ago, DOS was largely outdated

Just so I know... by JZ_Tonka · 2003-07-21 03:07 · Score: 1, Funny

Is RedHat Evil(tm) or Good(tm)?

I know Micro$oft is Evil, and Gentoo is Good, and *BSD is good (even if it IS dying), and, but what's the official alignment of RedHat?

Re:Just so I know... by Dachannien · 2003-07-21 03:12 · Score: 3, Funny

Lawful neutral? ;)
Re:Just so I know... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:15 · Score: 0

RedHat is Neutral Good with Lawful tendencies.
Re:Just so I know... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 09:12 · Score: 0

Naw, with their release schedule they have to be Chaotic Greedy.
Re:Just so I know... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 11:16 · Score: 0

oh gawd.

i just peed my pants.

holy sh!te that was funny!
Re:Just so I know... by 49152 · 2003-07-21 12:00 · Score: 1

Then I suppose SCO is Chaotic Evil?
Re:Just so I know... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 19:27 · Score: 0

18 +4 in strenght

How dare you steal from Redhat! by SHEENmaster · 2003-07-21 03:08 · Score: 4, Funny

They offer you there software for free, but that's just not good enough for you. The only thing that keeps them going is the knowledge that each new release with cause /. to rape their connections and that of there mirrors. You would take that satisfaction away from them!?

I wonder if a checksummed p2p system like bittorrent will ever be merged with apt.

--
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

Re:How dare you steal from Redhat! by forevermore · 2003-07-21 04:50 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Learn to spell... there = location their = possessive (ie. belongs to them) they're = they are My appologies if English isn't your first language, but this stuff just bugs me.

--
Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
Re:How dare you steal from Redhat! by Joe+Tie. · 2003-07-21 05:25 · Score: 2, Informative

I wonder if a checksummed p2p system like bittorrent will ever be merged with apt.

Never tried it myself, but I did hear that someone was working on setting up a debian apt repository on freenet.

--
Everything will be taken away from you.
Re:How dare you steal from Redhat! by hatrisc · 2003-07-21 06:02 · Score: 1

hmm.. that's not a bad idea. instead of ebuilds, or some other thing have .torrent-builds which are torrents and ebuilds mixed together. if developed right, it could be the greatest and most server friendly package management system ever!

--
I write code.

Re:I noticed this morning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:09 · Score: 0

thanks!

The meaning of Severn by morcheeba · 2003-07-21 03:09 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm not sure if this is what they intended, but this picture comes up with google images... I'll just stick with 8, thank you.

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

Re:The meaning of Severn by bohnsack · 2003-07-21 03:17 · Score: 5, Informative

I'll guess it's from Dam Simmons' Hyperion cantos.

9 was named "Shrike". This beta is "Severn". Both are characters from Hyperion.

In Hyperion, Joseph Severn was a cybrid reconstruction of the deceased 19th-century poet John Keats.
Re:The meaning of Severn by mjmalone · 2003-07-21 03:18 · Score: 1

I live on the Severn River in Annapolis, MD. Perhaps it has something to do with this? Where is RH headquartered?

--
Visualize the world of wine
Re:The meaning of Severn by Phillip2 · 2003-07-21 03:19 · Score: 1

The River Severn is the longest river in the UK.
It could be named after this.

Phil
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:23 · Score: 0

Redhat are based in NC, and your River Severn is but a pale imatation of the real river Severn here in the U.K!
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:23 · Score: 0

That would be Dan Severn, who was formerly in the WWF awhile back. I actually don't know anything about him, just recognize the name.
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:25 · Score: 0

It also has the second largest tidal range of any river in the world (Upto 15 meters), giving it Severn Bore
Re:The meaning of Severn by Captain+Large+Face · 2003-07-21 03:28 · Score: 1

It's also the name of a river running through South West England, although I doubt that's the reasoning.
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:32 · Score: 0

Perhaps, but does your river Servern have a Naval Academy for the largest navy in the world on it? Were any cities on your river ever national capitals for the most powerful nation in the world? And is it ever referred to as the sailing capital of the world?
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:42 · Score: 0

The original River Severn is home to Ironbridge Gorge where the industrial revolution began, the city of Bristol was once the greatest port for the most powerful nation on earth and the Severn bore is a pretty crazy phenemenon too.

So nah-nah nah nah-nah! ;-)
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:44 · Score: 0

phew.. for a moment there, i thought u said john katz.
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:45 · Score: 0

No, but it is the longest river in the U.K and it does have the second highest tidal range in the world, which produces the Severn Bore. Essentially it is a wave which runs upstream as the tide comes in, and as it gets squezed as it comes up the river it can result in a wave several meters high. You can surf it for several miles during the spring bores.

Oh yeah, that and it was the gateway to the port of Bristol, where Cabot sailed from in the 16th Century and eventually discovered Newfoundland.

Ours was also here first.
Re:The meaning of Severn by wrenkin · 2003-07-21 03:49 · Score: 1

Which of course means it's also a River in Canada -- Same as the Thames, Don, Humber, and Avon. In this case, it is part of the Trent-Severn waterway, a long canal system which travels up from lake ontario, and features cool mechanized portages for houseboats.

--
-- "Is this death or is this Ohio?"
Re:The meaning of Severn by Farley+Mullet · 2003-07-21 03:54 · Score: 4, Interesting

RedHat has an odd way of naming releases; the way I understand it is that each consecutive pair of release names has something in common, but (see here) for a good explanation). So for instance, "Pinstripe" followed "Zoot" (both kinds of suits), and "Guiness" followed "Pinstripe" (both British beers). So the last one was "Shrike" and this one is "Severn" which previous posters have noted are both characters in the "Hyperion" novels. Maybe the next one will be a river or a UFC guy.
Re:The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:07 · Score: 0

It's a word association game. You mustn't pause and you mustn't hesitate, or you'll get a bonk on the head like this *bonk* or like this *bonk* Now then..
Re:The meaning of Severn by Sabalon · 2003-07-21 04:17 · Score: 1

The could tie it into Marillion albums, as Brave was originally gonna be called Severn - due to the main female taking a junp from a bridge over the river.

I might just setup a RH machine again if they did that :)
Re:The meaning of Severn by mattdm · 2003-07-21 04:24 · Score: 1

And the one in Canada has endangered loggerhead shrike.

I think the Hyperion connection is more likely, though.
Re:The meaning of Severn by owenb · 2003-07-21 05:28 · Score: 1

Are you sure it existed first? Or do you just mean named first?
Re:The meaning of Severn by ilctoh · 2003-07-21 05:29 · Score: 1

Guinness is Irish, thank you very much.

--
How many slashes would a slashdot dot, if a slashdot could dot slashes?
Re:The meaning of Severn by cpeterso · 2003-07-21 08:28 · Score: 1

The final release of Red Hat Linux X is codenamed "Cambridge". Now we can start brainstorming the connection between Severn and Cambridge.

"Red Hat to change development model, abandon shrinkwrap"

--
cpeterso
Re:The meaning of Severn by RussHart · 2003-07-21 09:41 · Score: 1

Pinstripe - a Britsh beer? Err, I'm a member of CAMRA , and I've never heard of Pinstripe Beer...
Re:The meaning of Severn by Farley+Mullet · 2003-07-21 11:46 · Score: 1

You got me. I must have been thinking of something else. It turns out that it's an American-made red ale. Google tells me it tastes like a bitter. Sorry about that. And good luck with your campaign
Re:The meaning of Severn by Kaz+Riprock · 2003-07-21 15:51 · Score: 1

The next one could be Baltimore. Severn is my hometown in Maryland.

It's next-door to BWI airport.

--
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
Re:The meaning of Severn by salimma · 2003-07-22 03:11 · Score: 1

Simple - Severn is a river in England and Cambridge is the university town named after the bridge over river Cam.

--
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut

What About Kernel 2.6.x? by C0deJunkie · 2003-07-21 03:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

Since the promising 2.6 is alredy in a test phase, I would wait a couple of week to avoid the infamous module-related issues to upgrade a 2.4 kernel.
Is it possible to have 2.6.x (or even 2.5.75) as an option for the installation? Of course I woluld like it.

--
Apple iProduct. Non importa cosa sia, lo comprerete!

Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? by garcia · 2003-07-21 03:17 · Score: 1

of course it's an option. Read the Changelog, upgrade necessary utilities, and install the new kernel.
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 0

Perhaps they should start including Clippy in the Red Hat install procedure. He seems very helpful to folks who are lost. Maybe he can help you find your rpm 2.6 kernel!
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? by Ktulu_03 · 2003-07-21 03:28 · Score: 4, Informative

You can download the 2.6 test kernel and the related utilities here for rh9:

http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/2.5/

These files are also setup as an apt repository if you read the readme.txt file.
Not sure if they will work with the beta.
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? by C0deJunkie · 2003-07-21 03:35 · Score: 1

Ok, even if a bit "troll", I see your point.
I'll try to better explain mine:
I'm currently testing 2.5.74. Upgrading from 2.4 to 2.5 was not so hard, even if it was really harder than in the past (2.2->2.3 etc.) due to the heavy changes to the module subsystem.
Since the 2.6 series has been "marked" as a sort of milestone, I would like to have it as an "installation option", not an option, which, as you note, is already.

--
Apple iProduct. Non importa cosa sia, lo comprerete!
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:18 · Score: 0

just finished building snazzy nptl enabled glibc 10 minutes ago,
here are todays specs for y'all too drool. :)

linux-2.6.0-test1
binutils-030720
gcc-3.3.1-03 0720
glibc-cvs, nptl-0.53
coreutils-5.0
GNOME-2.3.4 (latest tarballs)
mozilla-1.4
Xfree86 4.3.0

Linux version 2.6.0-test1 (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 3.3) #3 Wed Jul 16 09:53:02 EDT 2003 ../libc/configure --prefix=/usr --enable-kernel=current --enable-add-ons=nptl --with-tls --disable-profile --enable-omitfp --with-headers=/usr/src/linux/include

slight correction... by eupheric · 2003-07-21 03:10 · Score: 4, Informative

From the release notes, it seems Severn uses GCC 3.2.3, not 3.3.

Re:slight correction... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:33 · Score: 0

No, that's talking about the gcc32 package, which has gcc 3.2.3. The default system compiler (when you run 'gcc') is gcc 3.3.
Re:slight correction... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:37 · Score: 0

Wrong - it ships compatibility packages for gcc3.2 - the release notes are missing updated packages listing
Re:slight correction... by chabotc · 2003-07-21 03:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Incorrect. Like older redhat's did, it ships with two GCC compiler sets.

The GCC you see mentioned in the release notes is 'gcc32', the backward compatible compiler (used forinstance to compile the kernel and much of the compat-* packages).

The default compiler which is also used to compile the normal packages is gcc 3.3

Shame such an incorrect correction made it as story update
Re:slight correction... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:09 · Score: 0

ah, my bad. i wonder if there will be a correction of the correction?
-eric
Re:slight correction... by Vallimar · 2003-07-21 05:55 · Score: 1

Umm, no.. according to the releases notes and the files in the beta directory, GCC 3.3 is the standard. GCC 3.2 is ALSO available. Learn to read.

OpenOffice.org by Znonymous+Coward · 2003-07-21 03:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

According to distrowatch, this release still has OpenOffice.org 1.0.2

Wasn't the purpose of having 2 products (commercial and community) to offer the latest and greatest software? I hope Red Hat will include OOo 1.1 in the next beta.

--

Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.

Why Severn? by Fastfwd · 2003-07-21 03:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

Anyone know why it's called Severn?

Just finished reading Hyperion and I was wondering if there might be a link with "Joseph Severn".

Re:Why Severn? by floydigus · 2003-07-21 03:34 · Score: 1

Could be the Severn Bridge (famously so long that once they finish painting it, it needs painting again)

--
All things in moderation; including moderation
Re:Why Severn? by aug24 · 2003-07-21 03:42 · Score: 2, Funny

It's a river in England famous for boring people? ;-)
J.

--
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Re:Why Severn? by VdG · 2003-07-21 03:43 · Score: 1

There are two of them now, (the new one imaginatively bein galled "The Second Severn Crossing".)

It could refer to the river itself, of course, but that would be a bit of a bore.
http://www.severn-bore.co.uk/
Re:Why Severn? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:57 · Score: 0

I think you're thinking of the Fife Bridge, not the Severn Bridge. That one is famous for the infinite painting cycle; while the Severn Bridge requires a similiar maintainence cycle its hardly famous for it.
Re:Why Severn? by Jodrell · 2003-07-21 04:09 · Score: 1

I imagine that Alan might have something to do with it - the River Severn is the largest river in England and Wales and separates the two countries. It's also spanned by one of the most impressive bits of engineering in the UK.
Re:Why Severn? by floydigus · 2003-07-21 04:19 · Score: 1

Aha. Good point.
However, it is the Forth bridge. The nearly-a-number names got me confused. ...Forth, Fife, 6, Severn...

--
All things in moderation; including moderation
Re:Why Severn? by greg_barton · 2003-07-21 04:23 · Score: 1

Just finished reading Hyperion and I was wondering if there might be a link with "Joseph Severn".

Well, considering the last release was named "Shrike" that's not much of a stretch. :)
Re:Why Severn? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 10:44 · Score: 0

You think they'll name the next one eightern?
Re:Why Severn? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-25 05:33 · Score: 0

O/T but that is one of my most loved books of all times and I wish somone would review it on slashdot! hint hint....

term8or by term8or · 2003-07-21 03:12 · Score: 1, Redundant

In other news, Bill Gates rebuts rumours of a Red Hat release seven. "Windows is already at release 2003, and we will soon release 2005 (planned for 2007). This shows how much more mature Windows is compared to our Linux alternatives." A spokesman from HP has declined to make any comment, and has denied the rumour that HP will release a new version to compete. "The rumours of HP-UX 11.ie (Internet Edition) are a complete fabrication"

--

"As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC

Re:term8or by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:21 · Score: 0

1,2,3,4,5,6...7,8.

Eight, Eight Slashdot clichés in one post. *cue lightning and thunder* AHAHAHA. Can you spot them all, too?

(there's like 20 if you count the .sig.)
Re:term8or by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:30 · Score: 0

I assume you were trying to be funny, but guess what- you are not funny (not even a little bit). You should stick to stuff that you are good at, like just being stinky in your mom's basement or playing tux racer with the other pear-shaped virgin losers in your neighborhood.

Nothing too impressive by Bruha · 2003-07-21 03:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Lilo is removed from the packages *shrug*

Removal of lprng and sndconfig might cause a few grumbles but otherwise nothing remarkable here.

Re:Nothing too impressive by RedHat+Rocky · 2003-07-21 03:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

lilo is deprecated, not removed. This means it is still there, but will probably be removed in the future.

Personally, I think this is bad. I've run into situations where GRUB just couldn't handle the configurations I needed to do. And changing hardware on GRUB can sometimes force one to a boot disk where it shouldn't be necessary.

Now pine IS on the removed list, ACK!! Guess it's time to pick a new mailer, but man, a decade old habit is hard to break.

--
Anything is possible given time and money.
Re:Nothing too impressive by Znonymous+Coward · 2003-07-21 03:23 · Score: 0

It's a habit worth breaking in the name of open source.

--
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Re:Nothing too impressive by bofkentucky · 2003-07-21 03:31 · Score: 1

Now pine IS on the removed list, ACK!! Guess it's time to pick a new mailer, but man, a decade old habit is hard to break.
I got exposed to mutt a few years back when we moved to a freebsd machine at UK for the student unix server, that and zsh were the two things I absolutely loved about that machine from the command line compared to our old HP-UX machine (ksh and pine)

--
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Re:Nothing too impressive by RedHat+Rocky · 2003-07-21 03:42 · Score: 1

Yep, mutt seems to be the way to go, been hearing about it for years. Excellent IMAP support is good.

Time to redo the email plumbing I guess.

--
Anything is possible given time and money.
Re:Nothing too impressive by eyeye · 2003-07-21 04:37 · Score: 1

I find mutt very slow to load up my 2000 email IMAP inbox (IMAP server on the same computer).

Am I missing something or is that normal? I suppose it could be the IMAP server now i'm thinking about it.

Hmmm.

--
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Re:Nothing too impressive by CausticWindow · 2003-07-21 04:57 · Score: 1

Why do you use IMAP if it's on the same machine?

--
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Re:Nothing too impressive by gordie · 2003-07-21 05:02 · Score: 1

You could always get pine from here: http://www.washington.edu/pine/getpine/ and install it yourself. No need to drop a useful tool just because RH has stopped encluding it.
Re:Nothing too impressive by eht · 2003-07-21 05:25 · Score: 1

The reason I use IMAP on the same machine I generally read my mail on is that I can also read it from any other machine in the world that I trust with handy webmail.

Which of course limits it greatly since I wouldn't trust most machiens in the world, but all I need is an http connection as opposed to hoping I can ssh in.
Re:Nothing too impressive by eyeye · 2003-07-21 05:36 · Score: 1

Why does that seem odd?
When i'm at home I read mail with mozilla mail, at work via mutt over SSH.

Now i'll just grumble over the annoying 2 minute slashdot rule for a bit...

--
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Re:Nothing too impressive by CausticWindow · 2003-07-21 05:36 · Score: 1

Ok, but you can just setup mutt to read your mail as local files. I do this at work, where my mail is stored as normal mailbox files, and then "exported" with IMAP. I have no idea how IMAP is setup though, since I'm not running the server.

Should speed up parsing of your inbox quite significantly I would guess.

--
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Re:Nothing too impressive by smelroy · 2003-07-21 06:38 · Score: 1

Doesn't no Pine == no Pico?? What am I going to do without Pico??? I don't want to learn the power of vi!! I guess it will just take me a little longer to get up and running next clean install.

--
Switching to Linux can be an adventure!
Re:Nothing too impressive by bofkentucky · 2003-07-21 06:44 · Score: 1

GNU Nano looks like a gnu rip-off^Wversion of pico to me.

--
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Re:Nothing too impressive by RedHat+Rocky · 2003-07-21 06:53 · Score: 1

Installing from source is not a big deal, granted. But, this is kind of like Netscape 4.0 used to be. You knew it wasn't open source, but it was there to use, so you did.

Installing from source means making a choice to use a specific app. Given pine's closed license, I'd be more inclined to choose another app.

--
Anything is possible given time and money.
Re:Nothing too impressive by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 12:58 · Score: 0

Grub is nice, but the only time I ever USE it when booting, is to go into single user mode. And every time I have to do it, it takes me like 10 minutes to find the stupid option for it. WTF was wrong with 'linux single' anyways?

I hope... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:14 · Score: 0

I hope they're patient for a few weeks to include OpenOffice.org 1.1 when its released in a few weeks.

Not so exciting by Amomynos+Coward · 2003-07-21 03:14 · Score: 1

One of the bad things in Linux distros is, that as we have almost all of the programs already available (and sometimes even newer releases), the launches are not as exciting...think about the OSX users, they literally wet their pants just seeing new screenshots of the latest feline.

Re:Not so exciting by RedHat+Rocky · 2003-07-21 03:22 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Nah, once you wake up and realize Mac sucks, you just put Gentoo on it. :)

--
Anything is possible given time and money.
Re:Not so exciting by DiscoOnTheSide · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 1

As a proud owner of a Powerbook G4, I can say two things about Gentoo with it.... 1) The drivers for the video card/LCD controller. Hah good luck. And 2) KDE with one mouse button is teh sux0r.

--
Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
Re:Not so exciting by Znonymous+Coward · 2003-07-21 03:34 · Score: 1

Way to backup your claim there.

--
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Re:Not so exciting by HiThere · 2003-07-21 04:03 · Score: 1

You can stick a three button mouse on the Mac with no problem, but the last time I tried a Linux partition on the Mac it gave me much grief. There seemed no way to take data back and forth between the systems. (For some stupid reason I'm having an extreme amount of trouble getting either OS9 formatted partitions or the OS9 system to work. Otherwise that could probably be mounted.)

Anyway, I'm using the Mac to get my wife off of MSWindles, with the definite goal of eventually moving her to Linux. But Linux needs a bunch of applications that aren't there yet (or at least aren't there as far as she's concerned...and sometimes as far as I'm concerned too) before this will be possible.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Not so exciting by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 11:23 · Score: 0

zynonymous amomynous pnonymous synonymous

(cowards, howards, dowards, bowards)

you guys are making my head hurt.

Yes but by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:16 · Score: 0

Does it run Linux?

Klippy? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:17 · Score: 0

Klippy?

Is that the KWord counterpart to the Open Office Lightbulb?

Re:Klippy? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:31 · Score: 0

Well thank you captain obvious

Disappointed by Sludge · 2003-07-21 03:18 · Score: 2, Offtopic

I installed RedHat 9.0, and it wasn't able to autodetect or otherwise utilize my configuration: GF4 ti4200 w/ dual monitor setup (21" + 19"). Installing the latest Nvidia binary drivers as-is caused hard lockups on boot (read: no num/caps lock or ping replies), despite many attempts.

I was hoping for a quick, clean install of a modern Linux OS to port my software over to (which uses OpenGL, so the binary drivers were a must), but I crashed and burnt. Many times over, even after tweaking my BIOS and following all available tips I could find on forums.

Sigh.

Re:Disappointed by molarmass192 · 2003-07-21 03:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's not your BIOS, it's most likely the AGP on your mobo. There was a bunch of work on the nVIDIA related AGP code in the post 2.4.20 kernel series, particularly 2.4.22. Depending on your mobo and kernel patches RH applied to 2.4.20, this could explain your problems. The 2.4.21 series in general hasn't been anything to brag about -but- stability is getting much better again as of 2.4.22-pre3 (haven't tried pre7 yet). You may want to try 2.4.22-pre7 to see if it solves the lockup issues for you.

--

Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Re:Disappointed by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:45 · Score: 0

wuss
Re:Disappointed by Brackney · 2003-07-21 04:00 · Score: 1

While I had no trouble getting my GeForce FX 5200 to work post-install after running the Nvidia binary and tweaking my config, I was unpleasantly surprised to find that the installer itself did not work and play well with the video card. I ended up doing a text install of RH 9 - very kludgy. Also disappointing were my SBLive and Kingston NIC cards not being configured properly. They worked fine after I manually modprobed the emu10k1 and tulip modules, and thereafter when I stuffed them in /etc/modules.conf, but why not automatically?
Re:Disappointed by Outland+Traveller · 2003-07-21 04:26 · Score: 1

Every time a distribution is released, someone invariably says, "I have XXX hardware set up like YYY and the installer didn't work for me". I think every OS that attempts to support large numbers of peripherals has these kinds of issues.

A good place to report this is the distrubtion's support forum.
Re:Disappointed by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:51 · Score: 0

Red Hat 9 wouldn't even load the GUI installer. I had all sorts of problems, not that it was a problem I just gave the CDs to a friend who wanted to try Linux out.
Re:Disappointed by saintlupus · 2003-07-21 07:16 · Score: 1

Every time a distribution is released, someone invariably says, "I have XXX hardware set up like YYY and the installer didn't work for me".

Heh. Just another reason I'm glad to use Linux on Mac hardware.

YDL Just Works.

--saint
Re:Disappointed by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 11:25 · Score: 0

5 different motherboards
5 different versions of geforce cards
3 athlons/2 p4s

rh9 worked perfectly for me.

email me and i'll help you.

anonymous@coward.me
Re:Disappointed by Sludge · 2003-07-22 16:54 · Score: 1

Geforce 4 ti4200, nforce motherboard, 2.4.22-pre7, tried both agp8x enabled and disabled in the bios, tried agpgart and nvagp. Tried a Gf3 that was lying around the office, and now I have tried Slackware 8.0 as well as redhat 9.0. Everything has the exact same hard crash. Bios option? Perhaps so. I've been using linux since 1994, and I can't get this up and running. It's a real shame.

The meaning of Severn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:19 · Score: 0

I'm assuming they're using rivers. Which would mean Severn is the River Severn, here in the sunny (Uh) West Country of this here United Kingdom. So there.

Of course it could be something else.

Does it come pre-packaged by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:21 · Score: 0, Funny

with a SCO license agreement ?

Re:Does it come pre-packaged by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:43 · Score: 0

Attention! The following is an announcement from SCO:
ALL YOUR REDHAT BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re:Does it come pre-packaged by RighteousFunby · 2003-07-21 08:02 · Score: 1

with a SCO license agreement ?

NO.

Now, can we please drop this annoying trend? This whole "SCO must give permission" thing is just as bad as Natalie Portman, the underpants/internet services/crackwhore gnomes or Soviet Russia jokes.

Can't we all just make bad Home Star Runner jokes and leave it at that?

--
If you're happy and you know it read my blog
Re:Does it come pre-packaged by 42forty-two42 · 2003-07-21 09:51 · Score: 1

Oh, even *I* know how to respwond to this one.
BALLEETED
Re:Does it come pre-packaged by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-23 02:11 · Score: 0

how to be funny on /.

1) reply to parent
2) ???
3) In sovit russia, the lone star joke makes you

Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by drgroove · 2003-07-21 03:22 · Score: 3, Funny

I can just imagine the process of coming up w/ the new release name...

RH Dev Manager: "Hey y'all - how many lines-a-code did we find copied over from-a UNIX?"

RH Dev'er: "Urrmmm... looks like about severn er ait to me, hoss."

RH Dev Mng: "Well'um then, that there's the next ree-leease name then. Severn."

Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:59 · Score: 0

They're in Research Triangle Park, hardly "backwoods."

Anyway, I didn't find it funny, living in the "south" of Virginia and NC. You'd start to think life revolved around California and New York.
Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:09 · Score: 0

Anyway, I didn't find it funny

I care. Really.

living in the "south" of Virginia and NC

Look, if you're south of the Mason-Dixon, you're a 2nd-class citizen. Deal with it, or move North, you ig'nant hillbilly bastard. Ye-haw! Gonna make you sqeeall boy!

You'd start to think life revolved around California and New York.

Actually, considering you're in the South, I'm not surprised that you weren't aware that life does indeed revolve around major metropolitan areas not located south of the Mason-Dixon... NY, San Fran, Chicago... only exceptions would be LA, et al. Sorry ! lu53r
Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 04:32 · Score: 0

They're in Research Triangle Park, hardly "backwoods."

Geez - so Billy-Bob and Bubba start calling their Trailer Park^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HManufactured Home Community "Research Triangle", and all of a sudden they're not "backwoods"?

You know what they say about taking the country out of the redneck.. :o)
Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by jrcamp · 2003-07-21 04:34 · Score: 1

I'm from South Carolina and I found it rather humorous. However, I realize that Triangle Park is a little more civilized than most places down here. :)
Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by smelroy · 2003-07-21 06:46 · Score: 1

Well they aren't really in the park anymore. They moved into Lucent's old home on CentennialCampus at NC State. That is in the middle of Raleigh. Trivial though...

--
Switching to Linux can be an adventure!
Re:Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 07:34 · Score: 0

You know why they invented big cities?

To keep all the idiots in geographically confined environs, in case we need to get rid of them quickly.

Looks like the plan is working.

But hey, don't worry, why not go get yourself a $8 dollar latte, breath in a few cubic meters of smog, and congratulate yourself on how much smarter and better you are. We promise not to laugh out loud.

I found the nVidia drivers quite easy to install by Vengeance · 2003-07-21 03:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

RH9.0, nVidia .bin driver installer, it was foolproof and easy. A tainted kernel was a small price to pay, IMHO.

Oh, and a suggestion: Don't try running your system at default runlevel 5 when messing with the video. Use runlevel 3 and startx.

--
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.

Laptop mode, yes! by morcheeba · 2003-07-21 03:24 · Score: 5, Informative

At the end of the release notes is this gem:

The Red Hat Linux 9.0.93 kernel now includes support for laptop mode. When placed in laptop mode, the kernel batches disk I/O, allowing the disk drive to become idle long enough for the drive's power-saving features to take affect. This can result in significant increases in battery runtime.

Considering I used to do most of my development while on batteries, this is great! (Gotta love the dell 7000 with its 7 hour batteries!)

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

Re:Laptop mode, yes! by lmfr · 2003-07-21 04:22 · Score: 1

The laptop mode patch is also available with other patches in savannah
Re:Laptop mode, yes! by onemorehour · 2003-07-21 07:15 · Score: 1

the kernel batches disk I/O, allowing the disk drive to become idle long enough for the drive's power-saving features to take affect. (sic)

On the other hand, once the power to your laptop finally does run out, you lose what you've been doing for the last few minutes ^_^
Re:Laptop mode, yes! by D'Arque+Bishop · 2003-07-21 09:05 · Score: 1

Sweet. I wish I had known about laptop mode while I was in Los Angeles a couple of months ago for E3; I got a rather rude awakening when my Compaq laptop running RH 9 would die at a fraction of the time it took for it to die when in Windows 2000. (Until then I had never run it on a battery.)

Having to watch the inflight movie instead of the one I brought with me sucked. ;-)
Re:Laptop mode, yes! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-22 02:21 · Score: 0

It only buffers small amounts, and it's almost certainly tied to the battery level... getting a bit low... flush buffers and warn user.

Re:slight correction...(not) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:26 · Score: 0

release notes are wrong, it actually does include gcc 3.3 if you look at the included files.

Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by LizardKing · 2003-07-21 03:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Someone with the bandwidth to download this might be able to confirm this, but it appears that the beta doesn't come with ALSA. A shame for those of us who like RedHat, but want to use the latest MIDI apps "out of the box".

Chris

Re:Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:49 · Score: 0

latest MIDI apps
haha
Re:Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by radixvir · 2003-07-21 04:53 · Score: 1

anyone know why redhat doesnt ship with alsa as the default? most multimedia stuff i go to install requires it.
Re:Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 05:15 · Score: 1, Interesting

Just a guess, but ALSA is sponsored by SuSE. RH tends to not like using things sponsored by other companies (Reiser, ALSA, etc).

That'd be my guess.
Re:Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by Vallimar · 2003-07-21 05:59 · Score: 2, Informative

I can already confirm this based on constant Rawhide monitoring. There is no ALSA. None, nada, zilch.
If you really want it, grab a test 2.6 kernel.. even a RedHat one maybe and install the ALSA libs yourself or from freshrpms. You won't have to worry about modules suddenly breaking (much) as RedHat has
already had the forsight to include the 2.5 modutils code. You can flip between kernel versions with RedHats modutils package installed without difficulty. I know, I've done it.
Re:Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... by bzzzt · 2003-07-21 06:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Bullshit. Reiserfs wasn't included because there's no "clean" upgrade path from ext2/3 they can support. You can still install a clean system on a reiser/jfs partition using some unofficial boot parameters. My guess at ALSA is that it's a lot more complex than OSS and thus more difficult to support. Add to that the fact that the typical Redhat customer (business) doesn't have a need for low-latency sound and it makes more sense that stupid conspiracy theories.

Was it just me? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-21 03:30 · Score: 0

or did anyone read "lead by a mediocracy" first time round...

Other than some install fluff there is no way this could warrant anything more than a point-release.

Free continues by digitect · 2003-07-21 03:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

Maybe it's just the pressure for profitability, but I continue to be blown away at RedHat's committment to Free Software and community commitment. These guys have a huge share of the GNU/Linux commercial market and yet they continue to be as open as is possible for a for-profit company.

They have invested a ton of effort into software now distributed by most other distributions (GNOME, RPM, kernel development, graphics, etc.). I don't mean that there aren't others playing, too. But it seems every time I expect RedHat to start trying to greedily hawk their enviable position, they do just the opposite.

Thanks RedHat!

--
There is no need to use a SlashDot sig for SEO...

Re:Free continues by Mitchell+Mebane · 2003-07-21 05:17 · Score: 0, Troll

What commitment? (Google cache link)

--

The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
Re:Free continues by Homology · 2003-07-21 05:42 · Score: 1

The article has some good points, but the author is, well, quite biased. Redhat did fund ext3, making a very easy upgrade path from ext2 to a journalling file system. Ext3 is a significant and valuable contribution. For the Xfree86 project, Mike Harris is an active contributor. Many other examples may be found of RedHat's contribution to Linux at large.
On the other hand, the RedHat "mangling" of KDE is controversial, and quite frankly it put me off. Enough for me not to use it. I'm not a Mandrake user, but the lates Mandrake KDE is very pretty and harmonic.
For development platform, SuSE 8.2 Pro is far better than Redhat Linux. Now, the other Redhat offerings is quite another matter, but also far more expensive.