Mozilla 1.5 Alpha Available

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla.org released Mozilla v1.5 alpha today, with flavors available for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. Some of the new features include Composer enhancements, Chatzilla logging, multiple tab window closing confirmation, and quicksearch support in about:config. A more detailed rough changelog is also available. In a somewhat related note, Mozilla 1.4 has been downloaded over a half million times in the past 3 weeks (not counting mirrors)."

Comments

GNAA releases GNAAZILLA 1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

This post proudly brought to you by the GNAA president

________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ |
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ |
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'

sweet

[qewl]

Now I can enjoy some new and completely unnoticeable changes!!

Re:sweet

[CanadaDave]

tell me about it... I thought Firebird and Thunderbird was supposed to be integrated into 1.5a. That sucks. I guess we'll have to wait until 1.6.

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

Negro Kobe Bryant - the violent rapist - is going on trial for rape of an innocent young girl. Negro Kobe Bryant, like others of his racial persuasion, is a violent hate filled rapist. He is being brought to justice. This Negro will live the rest of his life in a cage along with all the other animals of his kind.

Negro Kobe Bryant will not be selling his music at the iTunes Music Store. This is for sure.

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we'll have to wait until 1.6."

You'll be waiting a lot long than that...

*Mozilla Firebird 0.6.1*

- Need to start selling it as a technology preview
- It'll take a year to get something shippable to end users (brendan)
- Depends on hyatt's and ben's time

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=3F1C4D 5C .5090400%40mozilla.org

Re:sweet

[TummyX]

tell me about it... I thought Firebird and Thunderbird was supposed to be integrated into 1.5a. That sucks. I guess we'll have to wait until 1.6.


Why would you want to integrate a database into a webbrowser?

Re:sweet

[CanadaDave]

haha, very funny. Just kidding. Please mod down for NOT FUNNY. Or redundant, I'm sure that's been used already. And mod my post down as overrated too, I don't deserve the bonus karma I'm going to give myself when I hit Submit.

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you want to integrate a database into a webbrowser?

Why wouldn't you?

Re:sweet

[Feztaa]

Seems faster to me.

The tarball was smaller...

That is all.

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

Webbrowsers are today integral part of operating systems, right? So by integrating database into browser you integrate it also into operating system and beat MSFT :-).

Re:sweet

[Jellybob]

Sorry... too late - you can already integrate Access with IE using web forms.

Next please.

Re:sweet

[SammyTheSnake]

I for one will be very glad of the multiple tab window closing confirmation. Always tripping over that one...

Re:sweet

[BlueGecko]

Why would you want to integrate a database into a webbrowser?

That's certainly a question that the EMACS development team would never have asked, and I would certainly hope that Mozilla can be every bit the browser that EMACS is.

Re:sweet

[CaptnMArk]

Well, emacs is well known for having a better newsreader than the text editor.

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you want to integrate a database into a webbrowser?

Why would you want to integrate a news reader into a web browser? Why would you want to integrate an IRC client into a web browser? As far as I can see, these things are completely orthogonal, yet people seem to want to mix them together...

Re:sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

firebird and thunderbird is standalone applications. FB for web browsing.. and TB for mails and news. IRC client... well can't argue!

In response to the GNAA's FP

[Anonymous Coward]

Join SHAA Today, a moral organization! We have a TOLL FREE 800 number:
1-800-759-0700.
Call today to sign up over the phone! SHAA (STRAIGHT HUMAN ASSOCIATION of AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers people from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being moral.

Are you moral?
Are you a human?
Are you a moral human?

If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, then SHAA might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join SHAA (STRAIGHT HUMAN ASSOCIATION of AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time SHAA member.
SHAA is the fastest-growing moral community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of SHAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 2 simple steps!

First, call us! 1-800-759-0700. Ask us the secret passcode "Why should I believe?" We'll give you some instructions and send you literature and a book free of charge.

Second, if you want to chat with us, you can connect to irc.MOZILLA.org and join #SHAA

If you have mod points and would like to support morality, please moderate this post up.



This post brought to you by a proud member of SHAA

Re:In response to the GNAA's FP

[Zebbers]

This post brought to you by a proud member of SHAA

not so proud as to post with a username :-P

dumbass

Quicksearch

[paul248]

Quicksearching in about:config was a much-needed feature. I always had trouble locating stuff in there, especially when I didn't know exactly what it was named.

Re:Quicksearch

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I agree.

Like when you're browsing through porno, sending email, or buying junk online.

WTF?

stats?

[di0s]

Mozilla 1.4 has been downloaded over a half million times in the past 3 weeks (not counting mirrors)
Is that the *official* count, or the RIAA count?

Re:stats?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the RIAA was counting, we'd have to consider how much bandwidth each user has, and how many times they could download it within a month. So, by their method, Mozilla has been downloaded 72 billion times in the past 3 weeks.

Re:stats?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not counting the bittorrent downloads either, because, yeah, bittorrent had the one and only intent of distirbuting LEGAL, LICENSED software... yeah, that's the ticket!

Re:stats?

[tupps]

And I would therefore assume that it would be shown to the RIAA accountant who would work out it has cost the economy 27 billion trillion dollars in lost revenue?

Re:stats?

[Xeth]

You forgot to factor in that each of those computers has at least three people in the immediate family and 6.3 friends who could be watching it be used!

Re:stats?

[CleverNickName]

If the RIAA was counting, all those machines would have been pwn3d by Orrin Hatch by now.

Re:stats?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does this get a +5 insightful mod...sounds like +5 funny to me..

Re:stats?

[FroMan]

All of them were downloaded by pirates!

No one actually paid for mozilla!

Those greedy bastards!

Re:stats?

[nunofgs]

noooo... if it were RIAA count you would see something along these lines:

Mozilla 1.4 has been download over a half million times, the equivalent to thousands of DVDs, in the past 3 weeks

Firebird based?

[doormat]

Isnt 1.5 and forward supposed to be based on Firebird and not Mozilla? I didnt see that change anywhere in the simple release notes...

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

nice try troll. I don't think even the 12 year old fanboys here are stupid enough to bite.

Re:Firebird based?

[reaper20]

Read the updated roadmap, they're not going to make it for 1.5 it seems. Considering that Mozilla recently gained its independance, and a good portion of fulltime gecko developers have been let go, I think they're due for a milestone or two of of getting their bearings and realigning around the *birds.

Besides, IE7 comes with longhorn, Mozilla has plenty of time, and is already in the lead, Firebird and Thunderbird are already proving to be ready for prime time .... give them a month or two to straighten things out, it'll be worth it.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

and is already in the lead

Since when? What magazines have you been reading, The Mozilla Users Weekly?

Re:Firebird based?

[sharkey]

Firebird and Thunderbird are already proving to be ready for prime time

That's all well and good, but when will Trans Am and Viper be out?

Re:Firebird based?

[CanadaDave]

No, that was never fully decided upon. The roadmap is a joke. ahem, I mean it's not exactly accurate.

Re:Firebird based?

[tfreport]

I was thinking the same thing. Apparently that was the plan but they have been forced to change things (perhaps due to the Netscape break).

Buried deep in the To Do list on the official Roadmap page is one small but significant change. This is the passage that has been added. (There are probably other changes today as well but that is the one I noticed and pertains to this question).

It's clear now that we will not be able to switch to Mozilla Firebird by the Mozilla 1.5 final milestone. Instead, we expect Mozilla 1.5 to coincide with Mozilla Firebird 0.7. But we intend to implement the new application architecture in the next several milestones, till most of the community is won over to the new apps.

Hmmm... At the bottom of the page, the Roadmap states that it was last changed July 22, 2003 - so it appears that they were forced to make the change and only sort of let it be known. Wonder what is going on?

Well, until then, I will keep using Firebird. But for those migrating - another positive is that 1.5alpha is 1.4 Mbs smaller.

Re:Firebird based?

[archen]

Besides, IE7 comes with longhorn

Yeah, I'm sure we'll se ASSLOADS of innovation from IE7. Like "a send a DRM report to Microsoft" button added, along with a few other "enhancements" 99% of the population would find useless and annoying like the pop up image toolbar. Well I'm half joking, but MS isn't going to innovate until they see some sort of serious threat, and as it stands now, I doubt they'll make any significant improvements.

I think the "browser wars" are probably over. It's not really about browsers anymore as they're practically considered essential OS components. Mozilla probably will play a key role in spearheading the Linux movement, along with providing a good open source cross platform browser across many different venues.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

and Thunderbird are already proving to be ready for prime time .... give them a month or two to straighten things out, it'll be worth it.

That sounds eerily familiar to those proclamations back when Mozilla M14 was released...

Re:Firebird based?

[enomar]

I think you may be underestimating the innovation behind some of these alternate browsers. IE is just not keeping up. I have a seriously hard time using it anymore. Features like tabbed browsing and mouse gestures are now an itegral part of my browsing experience. They almost feel like...essential OS components.

Re:Firebird based?

[PeterHammer]

Mozilla probably will play a key role in spearheading the Linux movement

That sounds like a boring dismisal of Mozilla. I use windows regularly at work, and at home, and Mozilla is my browser of choice. I have also successfully converted a number (probably around 20) regular joes who like to call me their tech geek

I think Mozilla needs to promote a consumer oriented browser, particularly now that the AOL cord has been severed. It is certainly light weight enough if you strip all the geek features - Venkman, DOM inspector, Chatzilla, Composer etc... - and I think most web developers who target standards would agree that it is vastly superior to what IE would provide. My team would love to be able to drop IE as an obsolete monster. But its hard to convince users to install the whole Moz suite, let alone Netscape 7.1.

Firebird needs to evolve. And it needs a grass roots movement promoting it. If every developer out there could convert 10 people - and those 10 convert 10 more. Well I don't have to tell geeks how to do math. Do I?

Re:Firebird based?

[smokeslikeapoet]

Features like tabbed browsing and mouse gestures are now an itegral part of my browsing experience.

I agree totally. I'm so used to tabbed browsing and no popups that I can't abide IE 6 anymore. It's just lousy and boring. The only way Microsoft will survive is with OS integration (already covered that base) and more importantly, stealing popular ideas from open source browsers. But, hey that's M$'s modus operandi already.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

If every developer out there could convert 10 people - and those 10 convert 10 more. Well I don't have to tell geeks how to do math. Do I?

There are 10 kinds of people, those who know binary, and those who don't. :)

Re:Firebird based?

[Mr Z]

I'm waiting for the GTO myself. :-)

(Yes, I do actually want an Austrailian-built American sports car with an Italian racing-designation acronym for a name.)

--Joe

Re:Firebird based?

[Mr Z]

Here's a link to a picture of the shiny GTO, BTW: The GTO.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anime_Fan]

Firebird needs to evolve. And it needs a grass roots movement promoting it. If every developer out there could convert 10 people - and those 10 convert 10 more. Well I don't have to tell geeks how to do math. Do I?

Nope, and we'll all count correctly despite the fact you didn't tell us how to do ;)

Binary 10*10 = Decimal 2*2 = 4 = Binary 100
Decimal 10*10 = 100

100 no matter how we count.

Re:Firebird based?

[wrinkledshirt]

If every developer out there could convert 10 people - and those 10 convert 10 more...

Well, considering where all the developer jobs are being shipped to, that'll mean a good chunk of India will be using Mozilla. Fat lot of good that'll do the movement over here.

(Just kidding. Love Linux. Love Mozilla. etc. etc.)

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

"stealing popular ideas from open source browsers"

? What few features IE does have, it had them 3 years before any open source browser did.

Re:Firebird based?

[Moofie]

I wish GM would just go ahead and realize that if they designed cars that didn't look like ass, I might buy one.

Come on. Sports car. Two doors. Manual transmission. Rear wheel drive. Independent suspension. (I shouldn't even have to say that.) Weighs less than 3000lbs. Looks cool. It can't be that hard, guys!

That thing looks like a warmed-over Grand Prix. I am really disappointed that the Aussies didn't come up with a better design. They know their cars down there...just wish they could beat some sense into GM's "design" centres.

Re:Firebird based?

[blibbleblobble]

"Yeah, I'm sure we'll se ASSLOADS of innovation from IE7"

Longhorn being a large, dumb animal which consumes vast quantities of resources and turns most of them into shit?

pic

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, it had HTML rendering before Mosiac had it? Blimey! Considering that Internet Explorer is based on SpyGlass which is essentially Mosiac anyway, thats a Double Blimey! When did Microsoft get a time machine?

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hang on, I was using BCD!

Re:Firebird based?

[madprof]

MS is going to innovate in adding propietary extensions when and where they can. Get ready for IE7 to introduce amazing technologies for people to use that will just happen to need a Windows server at the other end.
This has been tried already but now they're clearly in a position to start levaraging this with the browser wars well and truly over.

Re:Firebird based?

[archen]

I think you may be underestimating the innovation behind some of these alternate browsers.

Not really. I've been using Mozilla as my primary browser since way back in the milestones. Mozilla has shown a LOT of innovation. BUT, look at Opera - I mean this browser is extremely efficent, fast, and has had innovations over all other browsers for a long time (from which Mozilla took quite a few). Does Microsoft consider them a threat? I doubt it, and if they do it's because of the embedded market.

It doesn't matter how much better a browser is than IE, all MS understands is losing marketshare. Which is sort of my point about being an OS componnent more than anything, what people get with their OS is probably what they're going to stick with - and I doubt most windows users will be switching to anything. They'll just use addons to IE if anything.

Re:Firebird based?

[FroMan]

BZZZTTT!

It would really be:

Binary: 01 + 10 + (10 * 10) = 111 people.

Re:Firebird based?

[Gerv]

I was thinking the same thing. Apparently that was the plan but they have been forced to change things (perhaps due to the Netscape break).

You imagine we didn't see that coming? :-)

it appears that they were forced to make the change and only sort of let it be known

Not really. Admittedly, this change could have done with being posted elsewhere as well, but there's no conspiracy or coverup. The roadmap just changed to reflect reality. I think most people who looked at the issue could have seen that the switchover wasn't going to happen in as aggressive a timescale as we had originally hoped.

Gerv

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

Firebird needs to evolve. And it needs a grass roots movement promoting it. If every developer out there could convert 10 people - and those 10 convert 10 more. Well I don't have to tell geeks how to do math. Do I?

And if each of those ten people gave $1 to the previous five people in the chain who've been converted - Why we could all Make Money Fast!

Re:Firebird based?

[HiFire]

There are extensions to IE which add tabbed browsing and mouse guestures.

Slimbrowser
MyIE2
Crazy Browser
Avant Browser (not free)
Netcaptor (not free)

Re:Firebird based?

[Mr Z]

I wish GM would just go ahead and realize that if they designed cars that didn't look like ass, I might buy one.

I agree. Most GM product does look like ass. :-) Except, I do kinda disagree here:

That thing looks like a warmed-over Grand Prix.

As a proud original owner of a 1997 Grand Prix (with 184,000 miles!), you're failing to evoke any sympathy from me on that remark. The 9th generation (2004 onward) GPs aren't that great looking, but I think the 8th generation GPs (1997-2003) are good looking cars.

As for your sports car feature list, lessee...

• Sports car. Check.
• Two doors. Check.
• Manual transmission. Check. Six speed close ratio manual. Also has a limited-slip differential.
• Rear wheel drive. Check.
• Weighs less than 3000lbs. Nope. Though I couldn't find Pontiac's weight, the Holden Monaro CV8 upon which it's based looks like it's about 3600 pounds.
• Looks cool. Check. At least I think it does.

And lets not forget a few items I would like to see:

• Decent horsepower/torque. Check. Approx 340HP, 360 ft/lb of torque. Makes up for the weight.
• Decent exhaust note. Check. Listen to the sound clips online. No 4-banger butt trumpet here.
• Decent specs while still naturally asperated. Check. This was always one of my main complaints w/ the Grand Prix and with a lot of the 4-bangers out there. Nothing wrong with forcing air with aftermarket parts, but to make compelling on the show room floor?

You went on to say:

I am really disappointed that the Aussies didn't come up with a better design. They know their cars down there...just wish they could beat some sense into GM's "design" centres.

Blame Detroit for the fascia. The GTO is based on the Holden Monaro CV8, which is a kick-ass car in its own right. Maybe if the chipmunk grille turns you off, you can look into the Monaro instead. ;-)

Hey, whaddaya know... that site has a page on the GTO also. Looks like the GTO is 3614 lbs.

--Joe

Re:Firebird based?

[filledwithloathing]

Who is going to look at that car and say, "Wow, I NEED to have one of those."? What a joke. They're going to sell 15 of those and say, "See we told you the muscle car was dead when we took away your Cameros and Firebirds and we were right. Nobody bought the new GTO."

Re:Firebird based?

[jimwatters]

"Yeah, I'm sure we'll see ASSLOADS of innovation from IE7"

Longhorn being a large, dumb animal which consumes vast quantities of resources and turns most of them into shit?

We are going to see lots of Longhorn shoveling from Micro$oft.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one. No "R-Type" stickers, no obnoxious wing on the back, normal-sized tail pipe, decent exhaust note, and plenty of HP.

Re:Firebird based?

[Moofie]

I'm a Miata driver. That's my benchmark. : )

You'll feel every one of those extra 1000lbs when you try to turn the car. Power/weight ratio is great when you're building a pony car, but for a true sports car, there is no substitute for light weight.

Oh yeah, and if it's got a live axle? Fuhgeddaboutit.

That Holden is an INFINITELY better-looking car than the GTO. Too bad I'll never be able to get one. : /

I think that the stock Miata has one of the best exhaust notes out there. No aftermarket pipe even comes close. "butt trumpet" is right...but the factory had their business sorted on that one.

I'm sort of dabbing my toe into the new car market, hoping I get a REAL job soon. On my list are:

1) 350Z
2) Infiniti G35 Coupe
3) Mazda RX-8
4) Mini Cooper S
5) Subaru WRX Wagon

(forced aspiration is no problem for me. : )

The last two break several of my guidelines, but by all reports they're both kick-ass drives. I don't know if I'm going to be able to afford any of the first three. : )

Right now, with the conspicuous exception of the Corvette, there is not a single American car I'd call a "sports car". The Mustnag's suspension is crap, and it's a bit too heavy. Maybe the '04 redesign will fix that. I think they've done a great job with the skin...but I hope the running gear is improved as well.

I am glad, of course, that there are lots of cool cars out there for me to drool on.

Re:Firebird based?

[enomar]

I think one of the reasons Mozilla is doing better than Opera is that Mozilla renders html a lot like IE does. Because most webmasters write their pages for IE, a browser needs to render html just like IE until we start seeing more standardized pages. I've installed and used Opera twice, and both times I've come across a lot of pages that don't render like IE would render them. Features and stability mean nothing if all my favorite pages look weird. That is the only reason I switched back to IE. I haven't had that problem with Mozilla.

Re:Firebird based?

[enomar]

Good to know. I'm a little skeptical though about IE add ons, especially if they're closed source. I've seen a lot of these with spyware. I'll have to read the EULAs.

Re:Firebird based?

[benzapp]

This WAS a big problem for a long time, but has been substantially improved in Opera 7.0. I use it exclusively over Mozilla because it has more features and is far faster. Mozilla is just dog slow.

Re:Firebird based?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the "browser wars" are probably over.

Gee, you think? What gave you that idea? :P

Obviously, a bunch of Windows users aren't going to go out of their way to use Mozilla instead of IE. Mozilla's strength is in its support for platforms Microsoft won't touch.

Now that IE/Mac and maybe IE/pre-Win2000 have been discontinued, we are due to see a lot more diversity in terms of browsers. Basically you will have IE/Windows vs. everything else vs. each other. This might even be a good thing.

I think any "browser wars" are irrelevant. The competition for these things isn't fierce. You have a bunch of browsers filling different user niches. Windows users have IE. Mac users have Surfari. Unixy people have Mozilla. And of course there are even more choices, especially for non-Windows platforms.

Re:Firebird based?

[discogravy]

They almost feel like...essential OS components.

they can be, if you like. Although I just like using them in firebird/blackdiamond.

Re:Firebird based?

[Jucius Maximus]

"Longhorn being a large, dumb animal which consumes vast quantities of resources and turns most of them into shit?"

Longhorns are no match for the large cats that hunt them down and kill them.

Re:Firebird based?

[Jucius Maximus]

"MS is going to innovate in adding propietary extensions when and where they can. Get ready for IE7 to introduce amazing technologies for people to use that will just happen to need a Windows server at the other end. This has been tried already but now they're clearly in a position to start levaraging this with the browser wars well and truly over."

You are exactly right. This is the real reason why they discontinued MSIE for Mac OS. They now want to illegally leverage their illegally obtained browser monopoly to illegally marginalise Linux and OS X. If there's one thing they learned from the anti trust trial, it's that they can get away with it.

It's the reverse of how they won the browser wars: This time they use a browser monopoly to marginalise operating systems. Brilliant.

Re:Firebird based?

[madprof]

Thank you for your kind backup on this point. I'm not happy about it but it does seem very likely.

I just wish I had hit 'preview' and not left my post full of spelling errors. ;-)

Re:Firebird based?

[Mad Marlin]

The GTO is based on the Holden Monaro CV8, which is a kick-ass car in its own right.

Isn't the Monaro just an F-body, like the former Camaros and Firebirds?

Re:Firebird based?

[Mr Z]

Doesn't appear to be, though it has some similar specs. The Monaro is using the LS1 engine, but that's where it ends.

--Joe

What's up with Camino

[Jeffrey Baker]

Does camino have a future? No releases have been made since 0.7, quite some time ago. Should MacOS X users switch to Mozilla, or Firebird.

ObSafariSucks

Re:What's up with Camino

[Rura Penthe]

Mike Pinkerton as well as others continue to work on Camino. It is by no means dead, but nightlies are highly variable in quality.

That said, the bug button in Safari still exists (it is disabled by default in 1.0) so report those bugs so it can get even better! This will help KHTML advance more quickly as well!

Re:What's up with Camino

[TheRedHorse]

Does camino have a future?

I still use it and wouldn't count it out yet. If you check their project page there was news about updates as recent as last week. And they still have nightly builds. Stick with it, seems to me they are still working on it.

Re:What's up with Camino

[manly_15]

That said, the bug button in Safari still exists (it is disabled by default in 1.0)

It's still in Safari, under the Safari App menu. If you are finding enough bugs, you can still still do as the poster says and add the button. I've only found 1 website that has problems with Safari, and the page works in Konqueror, so I would say that KHTML is off to a great start :-)

Re:What's up with Camino

[Anonymous Coward]

I still prefer Camino (nightlies, of course) over Safari. It's much faster and more reliable.

Re:What's up with Camino

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like there's an improved bookmark system coming soon, as well as work on a improved download manager.

So yes, it looks like Camino has a future.

Unfortunately, the guy that was doing the nightly builds was let go by AOL - and he turned the machine off when he left :) I believe mozilla.org is going to be gifted with the machine -but until it gets moved & set back up, there probably won't be any nightly builds.

moo

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the voice of the mysterons...

Mozilla

[Anonymous Coward]

Development work on the browser, at this point, is pretty pointless. The work will be depricated before the next stable release. The only thing that will drastically improve the gecko engine is an overhaul.

uh huh

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I speak for all blissfully ignorant Internet Explorer users when I say...

whoopty-freakin-doo...

Re:uh huh

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for your motivational speech for the Mozilla developers. If you could return now to your shack by the river, that'd be great...

Re:uh huh

[Seth Finklestein]

Internet Explorer is doomed. Its lack of critically important killer-app features such as tabbed browsing and mouse gestures will doom it to obsolescence. I predict that Internet Explorer will be losing the browser wars to superior competitors such as Mozilla, Opera, and Safari within three years.

As a certified Microsoft systems engineer, I know what I'm talking about.

still no MNG support?

[Comsn]

will mozilla ever put MNG support back in?

Re:still no MNG support?

[Jeffrey Baker]

I dunno but PNG support is extremely broken. In XFree86 4.something.something, Mozilla makes the entire display slow to a crawl whenever a PNG is on the screen. Other apps that display PNGs do not have this problem.

It's probably due to something unaccelerated in my exact setup, but whatever it is only cropped up recently and only happens with moz.

Re:still no MNG support?

[idiotfromia]

Other apps that display PNGs do not have this problem.

Have you ever used Internet Explorer?

Re:still no MNG support?

[Phroggy]

will mozilla ever put MNG support back in?

Doubtful. Search Bugzilla for bugs about this, and watch people bitch and moan. I agree it should go back in, but some of the developers disagree.

Re:still no MNG support?

[andrew_mike]

Probably not. There is a MNG add-on for Seamonkey/Firebird; however, I could not get it to work with a recent nightly build of Firebird (20030720). Maybe you'll have better luck than I.

HTH.

Re:still no MNG support?

[Buran]

Supposedly the wait is just for the person in charge of that part of the code to actually respond to all the complaints and put the MNG code back in. There's nothing else holding MNG back from going in.

With the many hundreds of votes the bug has, I don't know why they can't just override the deadbeat and put it in anyway.

Re:still no MNG support?

[CubicDDD]

Gentoo Mozilla 1.4 has MNG-Support.

Re:still no MNG support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, great, so I can waste a couple hours waiting for the thing to build (not counting the countless other hours to get a Gentoo system in the first place).

Oh, but it'll be the fastest Mozilla ever, by a whopping margin of .003%! Even more if I overclock my Athlon!

Re:still no MNG support?

[Anonymous Coward]

How the flying fuck do the Gentoo fanboys manage to work a mention of Gentoo in every fucking discussion? We could be talking about turds on a stick and someone would manage to use it as a demonstration of how great Gentoo is.

Re:still no MNG support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, all you have to do is...

emerge turd_on_stick

And gentoo does its thing. That's the great thing about gentoo, you spend many hours installing the fucker so that you only have to type one line instead of 4. Even add -march=$arch to CFLAGS. Whoop-de-do spending 3 times longer installing gentoo sure pays off.

Re:still no MNG support?

[superyooser]

Mozilla 1.4 on all platforms supports MNG. MNG/JNG support wasn't dropped until the 1.5a builds.

Re:still no MNG support?

[rmohr02]

I doubt he uses it much under X.

Re:still no MNG support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, sure. After that 100 times longer installation it compiles turd_on_stick 10 times longer than if i'd done...

apt-get install turd_on_stick

or yum install turd_on_stick

Fscking asshole moron gentoo nuts who wouldn't recognize good even if it came and bite their asses off.

Re:still no MNG support?

[juhaz]

From reading that bugzilla war it seems more like one developer, without any real reasons.

Too bad as that said developer happens to "own" image library code, nothing to do if the asshole doesn't want to play nice.

But has the big Lizard lost any weight?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see Mozilla getting leaner with each release.
And stop with the features already.

Safari is where it is at anyway.

Re:But has the big Lizard lost any weight?

[TwistedSpring]

I'd like to see Mozilla getting leaner with each release.

I agree. I run Moz on both windows and linux and its startup times are appaling (5 to 10 seconds in windows, 15 in linux on a clean boot). It seems to need to read half of my drive before it'll show a window. I suspect it's to do with Chrome, but what do I know.

People aren't going to switch from IE to Moz if one comes up in under 2 seconds and the other rapes their disk and CPU for an unprescedented amount of time before coming up with any window (and it isn't exactly a pretty window after that, pardon me but I like my browser to look like other desktop applications I run. I thought this was partly the point of Firebird but even that seems to now be using some sort of nonstandard menus and other widgets).

Yes, I know that I can load portions of Moz into RAM at bootup so it comes up faster, but what if I resent useless tray applications that use memory that gets swapped out by my OS anyway and therefore doesnt really cut load times but just restart times.

Put it this way, a browser should not need a splash-screen to inform you that it's loading. I know that browsers are extremely complicated applications that one would expect would take some time to load, but in mozilla's case it's just frustrating. I can't wait for the bugfix that says "we now do less useless crap at startup so things are only loaded when needed. This increases loading speed significantly", but I guess this could be a long wait.

To bitch some more, Firebird is disappointingly slow on resizing windows which is probably Gecko's fault. I hate to give IE any credit but it IS blindingly quick and doesnt jack my CPU usage up to max while resizing (I have show-window-contents while dragging on btw).

Of course firebird is still my browser of choice, despite the fact that it feels awfully sluggish, and the only thing I really desperately want from it now is the ability to REMOVE extensions without messing about with tons of chrome files.

Re:But has the big Lizard lost any weight?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... cuz we all spend so much time starting the browser after a boot, compared to the amount of time we spend working/surfing online..

Oh wait.. you're running windows... never mind, maybe you do have to reboot that often.

Re:But has the big Lizard lost any weight?

[Mr Z]

Or if you have a laptop, or actually shut your machine down at the end of the day....

(I don't personally trust 'suspend' on my laptop. I've never had a laptop on which it worked reliably. I think it must know I don't trust it. If it didn't work for at least *somebody* out there, why have the feature?)

--Joe

Re:But has the big Lizard lost any weight?

[BZ]

How about actually looking it up? Tinderbox keeps such statistics...

http://tegu.mozilla.org/graph/query.cgi?tbox=com et &testname=codesize_embed&autoscale=1&size=&units=b ytes&ltype=&points=&showpoint=2003%3A07%3A23%3A01% 3A32%3A23%2C13244550&avg=0&days=100

shows the codesize of the core engine graphed over the last 100 days (on Linux; Mac and Windows numbers are a little different but show the same overall trend).

omg 500!!

[atari2600]

Those guys actually list about 500 issues they've taken care of with this release. Go people go!
some useful ones imho
*Mozilla crashes when magnifier is used
*Browser crashes when javascript closes a window [@nsDocShell::InternalLoad]
*Save As > withoua> extention result is a html fila> and a directory > *When saving a .zip file "as...," Moz appends a .x after the .zip extension
*mozilla can't subscribe to existing imap folders
*Browser crashes on HTTPS urls - Trunk M140RC1 [@cert_get_next_general_name
*Loading personal certificates
*pop3 password failed error msg missing

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging by this list, mozilla has a fuck of a long way to go before I will ever let that open sores trash touch my machine. "Browser crashes on HTTPS urls "? Thats not a bug, thats a fucking catastrophic failure. And they are supposedly on version 1.5? Gimme a fucking break.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never had the problem with Mozilla crashing on HTTPS urls, and I go to quite a few HTTPS urls. give it a try, if it fucks up on you, at least you can say you tried.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

How about if I dont, since I already know from reading the comments on this page that Mozilla is steaming pile of crap.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

so you'd believe what a bunch of /.'ers say?

dude, you're a lost cause already.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I follow the herd like any true slashdot sheep

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

good point. I retract my comment.

good sheepey.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

*Save As > withoua> extention result is a html fila

*spel cheker

(can't you tell i'm using mozilla?)

Re:omg 500!!

[Alan]

I'm going to take a guess that that's not a common case, as I know for sure it's not for me, and there haven't been any https issues for me or any of the people I know who use https for years now.

Of course, you're an AC, so anything you say I consider a troll anyway.

Re:omg 500!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it still instantly crash when you press Control-Q? I've lost a lot of data this way.

Re:omg 500!!

[Pieroxy]

Funny to notice that IE has the same bug with Alt-F4 and Ctrl-W. Version 6 they say? IE sucks!

Re:omg 500!!

[jesser]

Alt+F4 and Ctrl+W close one window, at most. Ctrl+Q closes all windows owned by the same .exe (why???).

Re:omg 500!!

[cerberusss]

I think it's really useful that it asks for confirmation when closing the window with multiple tabs open. When developing, I usually have multiple tabs open, one of them the system itself, one with screenshots, one with the issue tracker etc. and it's a pain when accidentally I close that stuff.

CERT Advisory 7/22/2003: Mozilla Root Compromise

[Taco_Is_Ghey]

CERT has issued an advisory related to a root hole in all versions of Mozilla through the 1.5 beta, exploiting an unchecked buffer in the DNS reply parser. Exploits have been released publicly and are currently being used to compromise machines and propagate further attacks. All users of the Mozilla web browser are encouraged to upgrade now. The Gaping Security Hole is pictured in Figure 1.

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)___ISA_|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
FIGURE 1

Why this wasn't found and patched earlier is a mystery to me.


GSA PUBLIC KEY
asl;dfhlaskhdflkhasdflkasdhkflhasldfhjaskhdkf jhasdfkhahsdfy90y08fy08aw3408g0nb0h0bh00bhf00f0abh 0a0hfh0gh0aifhsdhghkasdkkchxnvnlasdf0g8y00a8b908fd halnblldvbnxcv8b08df-0b8--a8dfganslenal34n,mfnbmnx lkbn0adfbn8a8m-d-bh-a-npsnk33nkknlaw34nlkkljlkajkb j-9cv-b90a9-c-9adf-9b9a-9-9n3nkaklnFUCK TACO FUCK TACO FUCK TACO al;skdjflkasjd0gyb08cbxh08bhlxkbhlk3halasjdhfjlhas ;dfh;jlasdfjhasgjhgjhgjhogjhjhkhjjhbnhkhjhnfjjhfjk jknjfkjgnfjkljnh jfjhfhjfjfhghjlkjjhjlasdhf;lllllhhhahhhfalsa230pa3 h8-hwpvjdfnadfbh08xc0yb80xaho;bj4fn aj3bjabj;b0xc8[0x8fbyaiobf3jlwbjlwsbjlfasdflab79xp c7aguj;xkcbvs0x8y0kjaasbkdbnkjbaxxvna0r-0s-0d--f TENTACLE RAPE jfda8sd0f0a8sdhf-8as-dg0a=[nxlkncvl;na08rgvh-a9psd g ahsld0aac-x9bxcbn CLAIM FAILED lkjasfdnogvobxcaaax-98xccccccanpigasasdgn;occ8-ax9 jdsagne4o3n------9napisdamdn;jlansld DEFAULT CATCH asl;idkn0s08a008sd8f0cchcxchhd0as0d-fa-j3nnl3knlax 0c-8jsalejnfas800dg-0afg-a8u93ha;kjhq;j123e;qmnseu dfh0agg089asd-9c-x xcuihlkhslbhmhblkhcx08c-0x-080bh3km,

Re:CERT Advisory 7/22/2003: Mozilla Root Compromis

[c4Ff3In3 4ddiC]

You deserve a funny for that.

Bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

Has the Mozilla crew ever thought of quit making the browser as one giant, bloated super-applicaton and separate all the components into distinct, different programs in the spirit of IE/Outlook/FrontPage as well as Safari/Mail/iCal?

I know Firebird/Thunderbird/Dodobird exist but they seem like separate distinct projects, and the apps are definitely not as stable as stock Moz; trust me, I've used em all.

I mean, does my web browser REALLY need an IRC client?!

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Re:Bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Fuck, I just installed Firebird.

Re:Bloat

[idiotfromia]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

That's a plugin that would surely put the nails in IE's coffin.

Re:Bloat

[lune tns]

Yes, it does need an IRC client. I managed to convince the IT staff at work to install mozilla on my computer, boasting of the integrated mail client, etc...now I can feed my IRC addiction at all hours. ...although what this says about my company's IT staff is rather depressing.

Re:Bloat

[misuba]

Has the Mozilla crew ever thought of quit making the browser as one giant, bloated super-applicaton and separate all the components into distinct, different programs in the spirit of IE/Outlook/FrontPage as well as Safari/Mail/iCal?

I know Firebird/Thunderbird/Dodobird exist but they seem like separate distinct projects,

Looks like you just answered your own question there.

On a side note, can we call the next spinoff standalone project Dodobird? I'd appreciate that. Or at least Goonybird.

Re:Bloat

[Adam9]

This was addressed in a few Slashdot articles awhile ago. Check out the Mozilla Roadmap. They explain how things will be modularized. This means Firebird will be used instead.

Re:Bloat

[PoorCoder]

Right on! I don't want to get STD!

<safesex std=no>
rpm -e mozilla-*
tar xzvf MozillaFirebird-*
</safesex>

*ahhh*

Re:Bloat

[rolocroz]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Some people tell me Mozilla sucks, but this would be proof.

Re:Bloat

[Mikey-San]

Not really. IE would come out with a plug-in of their own, but instead of taking it in the mouth, you'd take it in the ass.

Oh, wait. My bad--it /already/ bends you over when you use it.

Re:Bloat

[RighteousFunby]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Mozilla bucks the trend.

Whereas emacs expanded until it could send email, Mozilla will expand until it is emacs.

Still, if your plugin becomes reality, well, I can imagine Mozillas market share climbing from 1% or so to, like 99%.

Re:Bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

What? They are willing to support this ?

Re:Bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Mozilla - Blows your horn while you browse the porn

Now that's a browser-war-winning slogan

Re:Bloat

[CGP314]

At this rate, Moz 1.6 will have an included oral sex plugin.

Where do I sign up for the beta?

Re:Bloat

[FattMattP]

I mean, does my web browser REALLY need an IRC client?!

If you don't want the IRC client then don't install it. When installing Mozilla you're prompted for which components you want to install. They're all selected by default but you can turn off what you don't want.

Re:Bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

Where have you been?

They're planning to replace the combined Seamonkey project with the split MonkeyBird projects.

...eventually.

Re:Bloat

[rmohr02]

To further clarify this, you must do a fresh install of Mozilla to get that option. If you have Mozilla currently installed with ChatZilla, you must uninstall it before installing Mozilla without ChatZilla.

Re:Bloat

[Cplus]

Careful, they might not have worked out the bug that caused teeth to be used.

My settings

[Skeme]

I always set

user_pref("dom.disable_window_flip", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_move_resize" , true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .close", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .directo ries", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .locatio n", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .menubar ", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .minimiz able", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .persona lbar", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .resizab le", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .scrollb ars", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .status" , true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .titleba r", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature .toolbar ", true);
user_pref("dom.disable_window_status_chang e", true);
user_pref("browser.block.target_new_window ", true)

to keep crappy web pages from disabling my menus.

Re:My settings

[Anonymous Coward]

user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "www.goatse.cx");

Re:My settings

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a user interface control for choosing your homepage to be the anus, but you GNU hippies like doing things the hard way, dontcha?

Re:My settings

[Wakkow]

Are most of those set by default? I never changed any of those settings, and I don't recall any webpages taking over my browser as some of those settings seem to imply. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Re:My settings

[quasi_steller]

Oh, there really are web pages that disable the menus, navigation buttons, etc. Usually for an image or something like that. Can't think of any offhand, but it has happened to me before. It really is quite annoying. I definitly will be using this in my prefs file from now on.

Re:My settings

[Skeme]

Unfortunately none of those is set by default. They could be a great "selling" point for Mozilla.

Re:My settings

[jerryasher]

How do I force pop up windows to have the full set of menubars and tabs?

When I visit most blogs and they pop up windows with comments (damn moveable type). But the windows don't make tabs visible, so it completely destroys tabbed browsing within that window. So if anyone leaves a link I wish to open, I have to open it in a new window and not just a new tab.

Thanks!

Re:My settings

[Malcontent]

Wow imagine that. A browser to make surfing easier and more pleasant for you. As opposed to a browser whose main purpose is to make you load MSN 50 times a day so they can sell more advetising.

Re:My settings

[Mr Z]

I don't know which setting to change, but I do know how *I* deal w/ Moveable Type. I just open the blog windows themselves in a new tab. Rather than clicking and getting the micro-sized popup window, I right-click and "Open in New Tab." Problem solved.

--Joe

Re:My settings

[jerryasher]

Thanks. Have you figured out how to route around Haloscan?

A middle or right click on a javascripty haloscan comment pop-up just results in a "(Untitle)", empty tab.

Re:My settings

[Mr Z]

Unfortunately, no. Sorry.

Re:My settings

[potsmaster]

one of the very cool features of mozilla 1.4 (and 1.3 i believe) is about:config. you can change all the settings as listed in skeme's posting interactively.

Choreographed releases.

[CryptOntology]

I've been fairly impressed with Firebird and hope the move to 1.5 will start the integration of Firebird concerns, bugs, and issues to the main trunk to be hashed out.

I think the Mozilla developers have been doing an excellent job lately, especially with respect to choreographing releases with future development needs. --- the switch-over to Firebird could have been disasterous or annoying, but it's been smooth.

Re:Choreographed releases.

[insecuritiez]

Smooth? It's been smooth because it hasn't happened yet.

How about convincing software companies to

[zymano]

add it to their cd's so people can get a feel for it ?

Re:How about convincing software companies to

[viniosity]

I agree that something needs to be done to make this more mainstream. At the office I installed it on the machines but when I checked back a week later people were still using IE6. Then somebody asked me how to 'play' Mozilla.. That's when I renamed all the 'Mozilla' icons to 'Internet'. It's worked like a charm. I've even got a few folks using Open Office this way.

Mouse Gestures

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Great! But Mozilla isn't complete until you've got MOUSE GESTURES. Honestly, I've found that mouse gestures coupled with tabbed browsing is such a more pleasant experience than anything that Microsoft is peddling. It seems that the best innovation is still coming from elsewhere and Microsoft is playing catch-up. Didn't I hear about IE having tabbed browsing in the next release?

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Mr. Diahrrhea,

Check out avant browser. Tabbed browsing and mouse gestures for IE, right now. That way you avoid all the bugs, security problems, and generally bloatware shit software you get from open-sores projects.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[idiotfromia]

That way you avoid all the bugs, security problems, and generally bloatware shit software you get from open-sores projects.

Are you trying to tell me that Internet Explorer is a small, secure, and bug free browser? That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

You really need to get out more often. Once would be a good start.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[idiotfromia]

You mean go outside? Into the open, into the sunlight? But what about my pasty white complexion??? I'd never survive.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[quasi_steller]

Couldn't agree more. When I first learned about mouse gestures, I thought "That's interesting but probably pointless." I decited to try it anyway, and after learning a few basic gestures, I was hooked. It is one of those things that don't seem that great until you actually try it.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[magnum3065]

I prefer RadialContext myself. It makes things just as quick as the mouse gestures, but since you still have a visible menu you don't have the problems of screwing up a gesture. I remember some gestures where if you screwed up a little it would end up doing the wrong thing. I never have this problem with the RadialContext, plus you don't have any of the complicated gestures either. Some of the gestures I found to be frustrating, like drawing an 'S' to view the source, or an 'h' to go home.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

:)

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice thanks for the link.

Just installed them now and already loving it.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't I hear about IE having tabbed browsing in the next release?

You know whats sad about the tabbed browsing, is that most of the windows users tommorow will probably think that IE had it first.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

There is one thing that people always seem to miss about Mozilla/Firebird: keyboard functionality. Personally, I HATE using the mouse. With Mozilla, I can browse without ever touching the mouse. That is incredibly helpful. What is more amazing is that, with type ahead find, keyboard browsing is better in Mozilla than in *gasp* the text mode browsers (e.g. links and lynx).

People can have their gestures, but I always thank the Mozilla team for giving users that choice. (Now, only if I could embed some type of vi keybindings to the text areas.)

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Lord Kholdan]

Aye! I fell in love with mouse gestures too. I even installed a general mouse gesture support for my computer, StrokeIt. http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/ I can't anymore imagine computing without mouse gestures.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Karamchand]

Still no comparison to Opera's MDI windows in conjunction with its mouse gestures. Tabbed browsing in crap compared to real MDI windows. (And please don't tell me they are MDI windows now - we had this discussion already:-)

Re:Mouse Gestures

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I personally use StrokeIT, that gives me gestures at the desktop level, works with all apps (and you can configure "special" gestures to particular apps).

Not in any way affiliated, just using it ...

Re:Mouse Gestures

[HiFire]

There are extensions to IE which add tabbed browsing and mouse guestures.

Slimbrowser
MyIE2
Crazy Browser
Avant Browser (not free)
Netcaptor (not free)

Re:Mouse Gestures

[nutshell42]

But Mozilla still lacks crash recovery (not only for crashs but also when you close it, don't know what it's called then); the best thing about opera is that I can have dozens of windows open then close it and when I start it up again it's as if I never ended it; it remembers the tabs, the history of each tab, settings like text size etc.

Re:Mouse Gestures

[gniv]

I agree, Mozilla needs to save its context when being shut down. I am often frustrated by this when shutting down my laptop.

Is there an addon for this?

Re:Mouse Gestures

[JCholewa]

> But Mozilla still lacks crash recovery (not only
> for crashs but also when you close it, don't
> know what it's called then); the best thing
> about opera is that I can have dozens of windows
> open then close it and when I start it up again
> it's as if I never ended it; it remembers the
> tabs, the history of each tab, settings like
> text size etc.

I'm pretty sure that Multizilla (the enhanced tabbed browsing add-on for Mozilla) can do that, since I use it, and it does. I'm not 100% sure that it always work on crashing, but I do know that it always reopens my last closed window's tab group. My only gripe is that it usually loads the tabs in different order from when they were closed.

Oddly enough, Opera for Linux doesn't always autorecover my open pages when I start it up. That's really annoying, since Opera is my primary browser and I usually work with at least forty open pages at once.

--
-JC
http://www.jc-news.com/coding/SFi/

Re:Mouse Gestures

[joebeone]

wow, man... I just got used to mouse gestures about 24 hours after reading this post and installing it. Mouse Gestures are really freakin' cool!

What the hell happened?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, sorry, I though Freshmeat got a new layout.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU POST SHIT LIKE THIS?

New feature I'd like to see...

[fedaykin42]

Mozilla.org released Mozilla v1.5 alpha today, with flavors available for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. Some of the new features include Composer enhancements, Chatzilla logging, multiple tab window closing confirmation, and quicksearch support in about:config. A more detailed rough changelog is also available.

...usability without having to have a monster machine. I use Mozilla, but damn is it slow for even the most mundane of pages. If you want to load a plugin, forget it. I'm running a 1.3GHz Athelon with 512MB of RAM and it gets bad. Personally, I couldn't care less about a good deal of the wiz-bang bloat features...make it fast and reliable.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[__past__]

So use Epiphany or Galeon, if you don't mind Gnome. Or maybe Skipstone, if that is still alive. Even Firebird is supposed to be snappier, even if I could not see much improvement myself.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Slurm-V]

I have a grotty old PII 350 with 64mb on win98 (not SE - for some absurd historical reason that I no longer believe and I don't expect anyone else to either) and I use Moz exclusively for tabbed browsing and spam filtering goodness. It's faster than IE from my perspective and, unlike IE, doesn't fall over more often than a one legged man in a falling over competition.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[MarcQuadra]

I'm running Moz 1.4 on a PIII/500 laptop. It's about the same speed in Windows as IE6, and in Linux it's a bit faster (except at getting it initially fired up, of course). If moz is bogging down on your machine there's something wrong.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Feztaa]

Well, I have a 1.4GHz Athlon with 512 MBs of RAM, and Mozilla seems fine to me. I guess it's that last 100 MHz that really makes a difference... :)

Actually, the latest 1.4 was really speedy, relative to 1.3 at least. I admit that mozilla is one of the slower browsers, but every release is faster than the previous one, in my experience anyway. I haven't tried this one yet, but I'm about to.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[jejones]

I use Mozilla, but damn is it slow for even the most mundane of pages. If you want to load a plugin, forget it. I'm running a 1.3GHz Athelon with 512MB of RAM and it gets bad.

Eh? I'm typing this on a system with an 800 MHz Duron, and Mozilla doesn't seem slow to me.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Ramze]

I'm running an AMD 900 mhz w/ 512 mb of RAM with cable modem internet service and both Mozilla and Firebird run faster than IE under Windows XP. With Firebird's adblocking plugin and server block capabilities, I'm beginning to use it as my primary browser.

No problems here with plugins so far & most web pages load faster in Mozilla and Firebird than in IE... sounds like you're running an old build or have something else wrong w/ your machine. maybe an old version of Java??? *shrugs*

Best of luck fixing your problem... I've never seen a machine where Mozilla ran slower than IE.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you running windows? It might be time for that monthly reformat/reinstall of windows...Talk about bloatware...

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[jesser]

I have a similar machine and I find Mozilla Firebird to be fast enough.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Wolfier]

The main reason of this slowness is Mozilla's inability to "renice" plugins.

Try opening a page with 15 flash applets in IE, and the same page in Mozilla and you'll know how crucial this feature is.

We need to put this as a high priority bugfix.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[westyvw]

Somethings wrong then. Mozilla is a fast as I can look at it on both my Athlon 750 and my p2 350. (I admit the p2 has the advantage of being gentoo, so its been compiled for it). But the pages render really fast on both computers. I dont know why your's is slow, mine sure isnt.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[kcbrown]

...usability without having to have a monster machine. I use Mozilla, but damn is it slow for even the most mundane of pages. If you want to load a plugin, forget it.

I'd much rather see stability in the face of stupid plugins, and saner memory management under Unix (open a bunch of web pages and then close all but one of them -- none of the memory used gets released to the OS. You have to exit Mozilla for that to happen).

Stability in the face of idiotic plugins, in particular, is really important. What idiot decided that plugins should run in the same process space as the browser? Plugins should run in their own process space and be forced to interact with the browser through a well-defined API.

As a result of the plugin stupidity, Mozilla freezes solid if the Java plugin does something stupid (which happens frequently), or crashes if there's a bug in the plugin (as is frequently the case with Flash). I'm sorry, but that's simply unacceptable.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[bogado]

Why in the name of god would any one make a page with 15 flash animations??? If this person consider those animations so important, I would sujest makeing one larger animation that wuold cover all the detais that needed to be animated.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Spunk]

Is this on Linux?

I've noticed that Mozilla seems a lot faster on my Windows machines (both 233 MHz) than my Linux machine (Duron 800 MHz). I have no idea why this occurs.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Surreal_Streaker]

doesn't fall over more often than a one legged man in a falling over competition.

You mean falling down more often than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[fedaykin42]

For the record:

- my comments apply to both Linux and WinXP
- my conecpt of painfully slow is likely different than most of the folks with the reply "I've got xxx machine which is slower than yours and I don't notice any issues." You want an example of speed? Load Opera sometime. Reliability isn't any better, but blows Moz out of the water in terms of speed
- I never compared anything to IE. I would rather use Lynx or have snails render my pages than touch IE.

My point was (like many of the other posts) that the "browser" would be better served to not have every feature under the sun and concentrate on reliability and speed. The rest will follow.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Wolfier]

I don't know...it ususlly is not a "person" who makes it, and it's not ususlly on a page.

Try open a few Yahoo News tabs. If each tab has 2 flash ads, 6 would be enough to bring Mozilla to its knees. Now it seems to be a more relevant issue, doesn't it?

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla used to have a lot of speed problems, but since 1.4, it's wonderful. They really cleaned it up.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[bogado]

This makes more sense, and can happen. But I did not yet seen it goes into his knees, yet. The only time I get it to consume all my CPU cicles is when I open a collection of 7 tabs I have bookmarked and it try to render all seven comics sites at once.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[William Tanksley]

Makes sense to me... But I do happen to have a great solution for this specific problem. Get the Flash Click To Play extension, and you'll never again have to see a flash that you didn't explicitly want to see.

I like the idea of flash, but until this plugin the costs were usually more than the benefits -- I had to keep a spare browser around with flash installed, and only use it when I wanted to see a specific flash. Now I can just see what I want.

-Billy

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange, I've got a 1.2 Ghz Athlon system running ME that has 1GB of RAM (limited by ME to much less than 1GB). It's very fast, and loads pages as fast as IE.

I'm also running a SETI client AND a Prime95 client, so my CPU has a constant 100% utilization.

I'm very happy with Mozilla's performance.

You should check your system to see where the optimization bottle-neck is. You definately have one.

Re:New feature I'd like to see...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because unlike what everyone here SAYS. Windows kicks ass and Linux sucks eggs. (GUI/WOrkstation-wise anyway). Pretty simple. I've not used a single thing on Linux that came close to the speed of that same thing on Windows or the functionality of similar but always better programs on windows.

Just turn off Javascript...

[Anonymous Coward]

and ActiveX (ek if ya browser knows about it).

Both are evil.
SCO is trying to patent both of them.

Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see Mozilla news almost daily on Slashdot but where's the Opera news? Every small release of Mozilla however unimportant gets mentioned but not even the biggest Opera news gets mentioned. Opera doesn't even have it's own news Icon here on Slashdot. We should demand more Opera news because Opera 7.2 beta 2 came out today and I must say it's the best Opera ever (much better than that memory hogging vile beast of a pig Mozilla). Although no Linux version of beta 2 is out yet, only Windows, it is still news worthy of being on Slashdot. Here's the news announcement and heres some forums to talk about the new beta.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where can I get the source code for Opera? Oh, that's right, I can't. Not to mention Mozilla's excellent cross-platform support. Opera may have different versions for different OS's, but they are not the same.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where can I get the source code for Opera?

Ok, I think that's enough "open source" chanting for one day, jizzmop. I'd be willing to put $100 on the fact that you know zilch about programming and would never, EVER look at the source. Plus, Opera's--get this--just a better browser.

Not to mention Mozilla's excellent cross-platform support.

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT. If you knew anything, you'd know that the Linux, Windows, et cetera codebasen are quite different!

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course the Windows/Linux/Mac code is different, they run on different platforms. But the Gecko engine behaves the same way in each. And, jizzmop? Sheesh, some people can't even discuss something without turning to insults.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gecko engine does _not_ work the same way on each operating system. The Mozilla fanatics have to track bugs for every platform they build for.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera sucks. Firebird is just as fast and doesn't put a huge banner in your face. Only a moron pays $40 for a web brower, especially one as god-awful as Oprah.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you talking from a programming perspective, or user experience perspective? When I look at a site in Mozilla on Windows and a site in Mozilla on Linux, they're pretty much rendered the same (minus fonts differences and OS styling).

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you get the memo? This is Slashdot, "news for OSS zealots, stuff that matters to OSS zealots".

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

You blind Mozilla and Open Source fanatics are all the same. You ignore the superior rendering speed, compatibility, features, and stability of Opera and instead can only come up with "It's $40 dollars for a browser! I'm not paying that." Or "There's a banner on my 640x480 screen! It's too big!".

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

So price is never a factor for you? Must be nice.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

IE is free, dumbasses. And guess what? It actually WORKS!!!

Stick that in your pole and smoke it.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I don't spend all my money on internet porn or porn at the magazine store so $40 to pay for a good browser made by nice people to ensure they stay in business is well worth it. True, it is a bit expensive, but I'm sure Mozilla would cost much more than $40 if it hadn't of been babysitted by a major corporation all these years. I'm not even sure if it would have been open source.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Phroggy]

Perhaps because Mozilla is Free Software and Opera isn't?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera is free software too Einstein. You can download the free banner supported version, or you can continue using second rate software. The choice is yours.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ad supported is not free. It may not cost money, but it doesn't come without cost (my attention).

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct, except for the zealot part. Or are you one of the droves of johnny-come-lately .edu Win-whiners diluting what was once an excellent forum? Silly question...

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Jeremiah Blatz]

Perhaps because Opera *still* is a huge PITA, as their JavaScript support is astoundingly bass-ackward. As a web developer, I would rather support NS 4.7 *and* WML that deal with Opera.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[xyrw]

> I see Mozilla news almost daily on Slashdot

That's definitely an overstatement. There haven't been so many Mozilla news items of late.

Still, I used to like Opera, but back then the rendering engine didn't quite cut it (lousy CSS support), and I'm sure they've improved it tremendously but I'm not on Mac OS X, and Opera was never a good Mac browser-- it runs at about the same speed as Mac IE on my comp.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[dubious9]

Why predominately Mozilla?

Mozilla is one of the biggest open source projects out there. Slashdot has lots of people that like open source stuff.

Mozilla is more than just a broswer, it's a runtime (Gecko Runtime Engine), GUI language (XUL), bayesian mail client, html composer, etc.

People can actually contribute and test mozilla beta releases, as opposed to opera releases.

Mozilla is available on more platforms than opera, and is 7.2b2 even available on linux?

Mozilla has a 30% share of slashdot traffic, and thus is more directly popular with slashdot readers in general.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[WIAKywbfatw]

Opera sucks. Firebird is just as fast and doesn't put a huge banner in your face. Only a moron pays $40 for a web brower, especially one as god-awful as Oprah.

Your whole argument seems to be that paying for anything when you can get something else that does the same job is only for morons.

If that's true it's a good thing for Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin/ Rolls Royce have plenty of rich dumb customers who don't know that they could buy a cheap Ford/GM/Crysler/Nissan/Skoda that'll work just as well.

Similarly, all those people who pay more than $5 per head on eating out at fancy restaurants are also morons. Don't they realise they could fill up on a Big Mac and fries rather than fillet steak? And what about those idiots who buy designer clothes when the bargains at TK Max will keep them just as warm?

God-awful? Only for morons? Just exactly what browser are you talking about here? You sure ain't talking about Opera.

Anyone who's used Opera for more than five minutes (and that's obviously not you) would never come to that conclusion - it's small, fast, innovative and feature-packed. Try saying that about any other browser available on all the major platforms.

Paying for a browser isn't for everyone - just as paying for a luxory car, gourmet meal or designer labels aren't either - but just because you don't see the benefits of using Opera (hint: open your eyes) that doesn't mean that that's true for everyone else.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[MsGeek]

This reminds me: there needs to be a newer version of the Carbon variety of Moz. Right now 1.3 is it, and even then you can't get it from mozilla.org. I don't think I will *ever* be able to run MacOS X on this Wallstreet. I will be able to put Linux on there, and I suppose that's where I'll have to snag an up to date Mozilla. (and Safari's brother Konqueror)

There are some people who are stuck with the Classic MacOS. Some can't even run a version of it that will work with CarbonLib. (you need 8.6 for that) Yes, we are benighted and in a backwater but we do need a browser that doesn't suck.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

who cares the reason. mozilla is still far superior than opera. and free makes an excellent benefit

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[joeykiller]

You'd rather support NS 4.7? That's nonsense and you know it. The half hearted CSS and DOM support alone makes NS 4.x a nightmare to develop for.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Wolfier]

If that's true it's a good thing for Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin/ Rolls Royce have plenty of rich dumb customers who don't know that they could buy a cheap Ford/GM/Crysler/Nissan/Skoda that'll work just as well.

Slightly offtopic: so you really think a Ford/GM/Chrysler/Nissan/Skoda works just as well as a Porsche? They tend to break down 10 times as often than even a lowly Honda (especially Ford/GM/Chrysler) if you call that "just as well"....

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see Mozilla news almost daily on Slashdot but where's the Opera news? Every small release of Mozilla however unimportant gets mentioned but not even the biggest Opera news gets mentioned.

How many stories about Opera have you submitted that have been rejected?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[epukinsk]

it's small, fast, innovative and feature-packed. Try saying that about any other browser available on all the major platforms.

Firebird is small, fast, innovative and feature-packed.

Whew. That wasn't so hard.

Erik

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Xemoka]

>>Mozilla is available on more platforms than opera, and is 7.2b2 even available on linux?

Why yes it is (I am an Opera Fanatic)

Opera 7.20 Beta 1 for Linux Intel is now available for download.

Download at:

http://snapshot.opera.com/unix/inte...030703-7.20- B1/

The file below describes what package to select.

http://snapshot.opera.com/unix/inte...hatpackage.h tml

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Yosho]

Firebird is small,

You do realize that, depending on which OS we're talking about, it's still two to three times larger than Opera, right? And most of that size is because of Unicode support -- older versions that didn't support Unicode were small enough to fit on a floppy. I have a hard time considering any browser larger than five megs or so to be "small"...

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Bas_Wijnen]

Mozilla has a 30% share of slashdot traffic

Where did you get that figure from?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[clambake]

If that's true it's a good thing for Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin/ Rolls Royce have plenty of rich dumb customers who don't know that they could buy a cheap Ford/GM/Crysler/Nissan/Skoda that'll work just as well.

They aren't rich and dumb, they are rich and have very small penises.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[BZ]

Yes, older versions of Gecko that did not attempt to support the bloated mess that is the CSS 2.0 specification were also small enough to fit on a floppy....

With features, unfortunately, comes size.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[faaaz]

You're right, they don't work just as well, they work "good enough". Exactly the argument used by countless IE drones out there.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fillet steak is not the definition of a 'gourmet meal', you know. Expand your culinary horizons; there's a world out there beyond the 'lump of meat' caztegory.

Except in texas maybe.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[hkmwbz]

"People can actually contribute and test mozilla beta releases, as opposed to opera releases."

You are aware of the fact that you can download beta versions of Opera as well, right?

Opera is an alternative, standards compliant browser with a geeky/nerdy user base. Why should it not be interesting for a site which has "news for nerd. Stuff that matters"? It's a nerd's browser, so it's definitely relevant for nerds.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[hkmwbz]

How is Opera's JavaScript support "astoundingly bass-ackward"?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla far superior? You mean because it's so huge and bloated? Because it blatantly rips off features from Opera rather than innovate? Because it's unstable and doesn't even work with a lot of web sites?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Firebird is small, fast, innovative and feature-packed."

Except Opera is smaller and faster, and Firebird rips off all of Opera's features, rather than innovating itself. Just look at the Firebird forums! 99% of the discussions there are about mimicking Opera.

So the only reason to use Firebird is if you are a fanatical OSS zealot. Opera is smaller, faster, with more innovative features in a more integrated package. Rather than try to follow other browsers, Opera innovates and breaks new ground. Firebird just tries to become the open-source Opera.

And fails.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Gerv]

we do need a browser that doesn't suck.

As was said at the time that the MacOS 9 build got deprecated, OS 9 builds will happen when and if someone steps up and offers to maintain the OS 9 port. As yet, no-one has done so.

I think someone did an unofficial build of 1.4, but I don't know where you might get it from.

Gerv

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

So beta1 is beta2 on linux?

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, perhaps, you're poor and jealous and have a very small penis.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[dubious9]

Sorry I was wrong and should've included a link.

It's really closer to 35%

[20:18:36] <Questions> theLinGer asks: What percent of website hits originate from Internet Explorer?
[20:18:58] <CmdrTaco> 50% MSIE ish.
[20:19:24] <CmdrTaco> 35% Moz, 2% Konq

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[RetroGeek]

How is Opera's JavaScript support "astoundingly bass-ackward"?

Well, it does not support the <noscript> tag.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

Opera is a bit faster than Firebird. However, I like Firebird and find it is fast enough!

Opera is more pedantic with regard to web standards. It is correct of course, but I find from a practical perspective, Gecko based browsers work better.

Opera is standards compliant, but it *is not* perfect. Nor is any other browser, but Opera propaganda does imply that it is the most standard compliant. This is not true - I've built a CSS based menu system that works fine in Moz and *nearly* works in Opera, but unfortunatly Opera has a problem with Mouse-over events preventing it from working correctly, so I have to use some JavaScript "glue" to make it work.

I do like Opera though - it does its own thing, its own way. Its a commercial web browser flying in the face of advercity. Its available on the SonyEricson P800 and Opera software have always strived (striven?) to innovate.

I'm just glad we have a choice *and* a choice between such great (but different) products!

Saying all that, Opera doesn't process XSLT -- so yeah, I guess it does suck! (joke!)

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[Phroggy]

Opera is free software too Einstein. You can download the free banner supported version...

I meant Free Software, Einstein. Free as in speech, not free as in beer.

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[hkmwbz]

That's not JavaScript. That's HTML.

And it should be supported, because it isn't listed as an exception here:

http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/#html

Re:Mozilla news, but what about Opera?

[RetroGeek]

Oops, yes you're right, it is not Javascript parsing. But...

In every OTHER browser which has Javascript turned on, the NOSCRIPT text is not shown, but in Opera, the text IS shown.

This is annoying, as the Javascript guidelines say that you should have a NOSCRIPT section.

dam it

[Anonymous Coward]

I only got round to updating from 1.3 to 1.4 a week ago.

Re:dam it

[SN74S181]

Worse here: I have a SparcStation 5 that's been building Mozilla 1.4 on NetBSD 1.6.1 from source for over 24 hours now (it's a 110 MHZ single processor box). By the time the binary is ready 1.5 may be out.

Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do they bother making a Windows version? Last I checked, IE comes free with the OS and it works like a champ on any website I've ever seen. The people who blindly hate MS aren't going to be using Windows anyway... so whats the point? More mental masturbation from the open sores development community?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's odd, according to the half million download report, the Windows version is by far the most popular, with 71.5% of downloads. Speaking for myself, a Mozilla/Windows user, I use Mozilla because it works better and has more features. It's also not plagued by countless security issues.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[ejaw5]

....could it be because every other Linux distribution includes Mozilla browser?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they include v1.4?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does your mom include free condoms?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[swordgeek]

Hah!

I use Solaris a lot, and Linux a bit. Mozilla is on both of those platforms.

But Windows--Oh man, it's nice to have a really GOOD broswer on the universal de facto platform. Given that Windows is a toy to begin with (no insult intended--I use it for games, and nothing else), why would you NOT want to have the best browser on it?

OK, look at it another way: If 99% of the Linux people used Mozilla (an exaggeration, I'm sure) and 0.5% of the Windows market used it, then which group would account for more browser downloads?

(Hint: The answer is Windows)

At any rate, I know a lot of people--100% pure Windows users--who are quite happy about having Mozilla. Tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking is a boon.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but your Dad does.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that was really clever. Your mom must be proud.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, too bad your dad can't say the same.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your sister can only say good things about me after last night. She said I was even better than your dad.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Bilange]

At any rate, I know a lot of people--100% pure Windows users--who are quite happy about having Mozilla. Tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking is a boon.

Who knows, maybe IE7 will "borrow" those features from Mozilla! :)

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[swordgeek]

I've no doubt they will. In fact, about a year ago I predicted (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that they'd not only "borrow" the features, but then proceed to sue the Mozilla organisation for stealing their ideas in the first place. :-)

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Xua]

As IT industry grows up a lot of people keep on using old junk because they won't spend money on new hardware until what they have still works. I hear it often than this or that program is slow or uses way too much memory. Geeks probably understand that getting new hardware is a normal process of IT progress, but explain it to average people, not all of them will agree.

Mozilla is a very good program, I use it on my WS with 900Mb of ram (average process size is 90Mb), but at the moment I am typing this message in Opera 7.11 that runs in 64Mb (ok I know, on this outdated hardware most people would usee win98, but I have linux of course) and it is probably the only full featured (links and dillo aren't ones) browser I could use on this computer.

Also tabbed browsing sometimes isn't easily accepted by some people used to working in windows. Having two task-tab-bars instead of one, that's hard to understand someties. Popup blocking requires you understanding what in the world a JavaScript is too.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[SomeGuyFromCA]

> If 99% of the Linux people used Mozilla (an exaggeration, I'm sure) and 0.5% of the Windows market used it, then which group would account for more browser downloads?

> (Hint: The answer is Windows)

Certainly, since most dists of Linux these days seem to *come with* Moz. Only Windows users would h=not have it and have to download it.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[stewartj]

Remember that while Windows -doesn't- come with Moz, most linux distros -do-. So that would skew the figures even more to the Windows direction.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

But I don't have a sister.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[NFNNMIDATA]

I use Windows and I love Firebird. As you say, the tabs & pop-up blocking are great. But, I am sad to say, I would like to have an optional add-on to allow for the broken javascript parsing of IE, since I often run across sites developed only for IE which don't work or don't behave as expected in Firebird. Something with a toggle would be nice, so I could just turn it on once I hit a bad page (and thus save me from having to open IE and copy the URL over). Maybe something like this exists already (prolly not)?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

But, as I already asked, how many come with 1.4? We're talking about a new release.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[The Bungi]

Given that Windows is a toy to begin with

You are so 1337.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Over 3000 OS/2 downloads! Woo! Not half-bad. Don't forget IBM has their own "branded" release of Mozilla (IBM Web Browser) for those part of their "software update" program. Not bad.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[CubicDDD]

None that you or your mother know of ...

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[addaon]

Gotta fess up... about 2600 of those were me. I was bored.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[bushboy]

Quote: Given that Windows is a toy to begin with (no insult intended--I use it for games, and nothing else), why would you NOT want to have the best browser on it?

========

what the freak are you on about ?
A toy ?

Funny, I seem to be able to run a business on my toy - amazing eh ?

Just because you use if for games and nothing else, don't assume that everyone else does.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm, so you come across a site that doesnt work in Mozilla and this is an *IE* bug?

You people are getting desperate, this is getting comical.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[stewartj]

My point is that linux users already have a mozilla installed (eg 1.3 with MDK9.1). so there's less incentive for them to download 1.4 because they've already got most of the good features (eg: tabbed browsing). Windows users don't have any mozilla at all, so they're going to download it, and they'll go for the latest release, 1.4. Therefore the prior availability of any recent-ish version of Moz on linux versions skews the download figures in favour of Windows. QED!

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're reversing the whole issue. Because of the lack of support frem developers, linux is the actual 'toy' os.

Am I right?

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just that Linux users are more likely to have an existing version of Mozilla, but we often get our upgrades through other sources, like by using apt-get.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[NFNNMIDATA]

Not a bug per se, just the non-spec implementation of javascript in IE. If you have ever done any web development you should know what I mean. IE has always had its own version that doesn't follow the rules. These are not just IE-only extensions, mind you, but also stuff that is just plain broken that IE allows but should not. This used to be a big deal when there was a legitimate browser war going on, having to make two versions of a site, or at least test it in a variety of browsers so as to shape the code into something that works in more than just IE. Those days are apparently gone.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Chihuahuabot]

I agree. I downloaded Mozilla last week to run on my Win2K based system and I totally love it. I especially like the tabbed browsing and pop up killer. It seems more stable that IE too... and definatley less bloated. It is one more step towards shaking my nasty MS habit.

Re:Why make a Windows version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and some people ran their businesses on C64. I'm quite sure that qualifies as toy nevertheless.

It may be possible if you really want to torture yourself and lower your work efficiency, but that doesn't make it in any way smart or needed.

This will help a lot.

[Cutriss]

Some of the new features include Composer enhancements, Chatzilla logging, multiple tab window closing confirmation, and quicksearch support in about:config.

Oh thank Dog.

This is my only gripe about tabbed browsing, as it makes life annoying for people who are switching over from IE and haven't used a tabbed browser before. I can't count the number of times I've absent-mindedly clicked on the closing X in the window bar as opposed to the lower X for the tabs...

Now, if only they could fix the issue with multi-language support in Moz 1.4 Win32. Every time I go to a Japanese website I get a notification telling me that I need to install a language pack, but so far as I can tell, I've done this. The popup doesn't say exactly where to go to configure this in Preferences, and as far as I can tell, I've done set it up already (Preferences -> Navigator -> Languages), and it's not doing anything. So, either the language support is broken, or the instructions/setup procedure are non-intuitive.

Re:This will help a lot.

[Cutriss]

Funny.

It hasn't been five minutes since I posted this comment and I've already figured out what the problem is.

In order to set up the language support, you must go to View -> Character Coding -> Customize..., and add the language support you want for browser rendering. This is *not* at all what the popup message indicates, and seems like something that needs to be present in Preferences as well, and more clearly labelled. If a person is likely to be using a web browser in more than one language, then they'll probably want to configure all the language options all at once, so there's no sense in putting them in two separate places in the application.

So, kudos to Moz for a lightweight multi-language browser, but demerits for making it counter-intuitive to configure.

Re:This will help a lot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera has had this forever. ::dances the Opera jig::

Re:This will help a lot.

[CTho9305]

There have been patches out for the confirm-on-close bug for a while, but they were difficult to apply - especially under windows if you don't have a real "patch" tool available. Here are the various files for 1.4 with the patch applied.

Re:This will help a lot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time I go to a Japanese website I get a notification telling me that I need to install a language pack

So what? The "Asian teen" images you were there for still render just fine, why do you need the language pack?

Re:This will help a lot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I was going to flame the hell out of you and here you go be all reasonable-like and helpful. Blast your eyes!

Re:This will help a lot.

[suss]

Now, if only they could fix the issue with multi-language support in Moz 1.4 Win32

In windows 2000, go to Control Panel, Regional Options, General. Check any of the languages you need in language settings.

It will copy the necessary files from your windows 2000 cd... i'm guessing it will be much the same in XP.

Re:This will help a lot.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't count the number of times I've absent-mindedly clicked on the closing X in the window bar as opposed to the lower X for the tabs...

There is a tabbed browsing plugin somewhere (this might be it--this might also be it) that allows for all open tabs to be saved on crash (and exit?). That might be better than only having a increasingly-annoying dialog asking if you want to close the window and all child tabs.

Re:This will help a lot.

[Mitchell Mebane]

You should install the Tabbrowser Extensions... the "multiple tab window closing confirmation" feature has been there for quite some time. Not to mention all the other great options and features. If you like tabs, you really should intall it.

Re:This will help a lot.

[j7953]

If a person is likely to be using a web browser in more than one language, then they'll probably want to configure all the language options all at once, so there's no sense in putting them in two separate places in the application.

But the options actually are two different things. Preferences -> Navigator -> Languages sets up what your browser sends as the Accept-Language header with HTTP requests, so sites that support content negotiation will be able to return a page in your preferred language. The other option, as far as I can tell, is for setting up which character sets Mozilla supports for displaying.

But yes, I agree, the "Character Coding" option is currently not easy to find. In fact, I didn't even know about that dialog before reading your post. Though I am also wondering what purpose it has? The only character set that I have set "active" is ISO-8859-1, but Mozilla displays Japanese characters just fine. I did set View -> Character Coding -> Auto-Detect -> Universal, so maybe that's why?

The whole character coding setup is a bit confusing. I don't really care that much, I got rid of those nasty notifications, that's enough for me. I can't read anything but latin characters anyway. But I'm wondering why Mozilla won't simply display anything you have fonts available for by default, and why auto-detection of character sets is not the default (as far as I remember, I had to activate it manually). Maybe too many servers are not configured correctly? But that doesn't even seem to matter. For example, if I go to Debian's home page, english version, Mozilla recognizes it as a page with character set ISO-8859-1, but displays all the non-latin characters in the language selection links at the bottom of the page correctly anyway.

Dear Mozilla 1.5 Alpha

[Letter]

Dear Mozilla 1.5 Alpha,

Re: 210630 -- Make install.com be smarter

Bitch get smarter!!!

Moz,
Illa

Mozilla Firebird seems better

[dyj]

At least if you just want the browser, Mozilla Firebird seems already much better than Mozilla.

I have been using a recent nightly build of Mozilla Firebird as my primary browser, and it has been very stable and already feels much more polished than Mozilla.

Small things like the Ctrl-Enter shortcut and automatic mouse scrolling make Mozilla Firebird feel more like a polished product than Moziila does.

Re:Mozilla Firebird seems better

[akaihola]

I second that. The nightly builds keep getting better and better. The same is true for Thunderbird.

Mozilla 1.4 and Firebird 0.6 were unbearably unstable on my system, but the nightlies work like a dream.

Just a couple of annoyances (which I've voted for in Bugzilla):

• Firebird nightlies for Linux are not compiled with anti-aliased font support (Thunderbird nightlies, on the other hand, are)
  
• no Midas support (wysiwyg HTML editing in forms)

Unfortunately Thunderbird still doesn't have its own category in Bugzilla.

Re:Mozilla Firebird seems better

[sewagemaster]

and in windows, firebird crashes whenever there is a video plugin being loaded. quicktime, windows media player, etc

Re:Mozilla Firebird seems better

[Zepalesque]

if you've the time/cpu cycles to spare, you can build it from source. Disclaimer - I gleaned most of this from web sites, news groups, etc. I'd like to give credit where its due, but don't remember all of the sources. In any event, this is how I build it...

mkdir phoenix-source && cd phoenix-source
wget http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/ mozilla-source.tar.bz2
tar xvjf ./mozilla-source.tar.bz2

Create the file mozilla/.mozconfig. add these:

export MOZ_PHOENIX=1
mk_add_options MOZ_PHOENIX=1
ac_add_options --enable-crypto
ac_add_options --disable-tests
ac_add_options --disable-debug
ac_add_options --disable-mailnews
ac_add_options --disable-composer
ac_add_options --enable-strip
ac_add_options --enable-strip-libs
ac_add_options --enable-xft

cd mozilla
gmake -f client.mk build

(note: the --enable-xft flag is what gets you the nice fonts)

Re:Mozilla Firebird seems better

[rmohr02]

To clarify the parent's Ctrl+Enter shortcut (which I assume is from the URL bar), you can type in yahoo[Ctrl+Enter], and be taken to http://www.yahoo.com/. In Mozilla, you type in yahoo[Enter] and you're taken to http://www.yahoo.com/. If you type yahoo[Ctrl+Enter], you get http://www.yahoo.com/ in a new tab (or window). To get a URL in a new tab in Mozilla Firebird, you have to hit [Alt+Enter], and I find [Ctrl+Enter] is more natural.

The mouse scrolling plugin for Mozilla is available at http://autoscroll.mozdev.org/installation.html. It is the same code Mozilla Firebird uses, just Mozilla Firebird includes it by default. I wouldn't be surprised if Mozilla includes it soon as well.

I believe that while Mozilla Firebird is fast, Mozilla is much more mature than Mozilla Firebird.

about:config

[cavegrub]

After typing about:config and browsing to the bottom of the list...

timebomb.first_launch_time 1034222022286000

I always knew that IE had a built in crash timer, but Mozilla? ;)

Re:about:config

[cavegrub]

A bit of explaination: the "timebomb" preference is a relic from the Netscape days. It provides a countdown until some final date, which when reached, the application will provide an expiration notice popup and request that the application stop working.

Re:about:config

[zgornz]

I'm betting you know what this is for and are just making a joke, but just for reference this is so a distributor (not like Redhat but like Netscape or Beonix or whoever) can release a beta or pre-release that is timebombed so the users must upgrade to the final release when it's done.

Of course they could just change that value but most likely it'd be better to just upgrade

Re:about:config

[mat catastrophe]

i think i remember this, from around the netscape 1 and 2 days. for mac users, you could just trash the prefs file and restart the browser.

please mod this -1 offtopic and -1 nostalgic

Re:about:config

[Henry V .009]

Millions of years from now, Blow' K-bibben-Gordo shakes his thought tentacles with rage: "Mozilla just shut down on me! Open source sucks."

Re:about:config

[Anonymous Coward]

It is OSS you know!!

/*
** Don't ever forget about this!!!
**
** This is ALL superseeded by the setting in /ns/modules/libpref/src/init/all.js
** lock for timebomb.use_timebomb

** Define TIMEBOMB_ON for beta builds.
** Undef TIMEBOMB_ON for release builds.
*/
#define TIMEBOMB_ON
/* #undef TIMEBOMB_ON */
/*
** After this date all hell breaks loose
*/

It is obviously used to make beta builds stop functioning after a certain date, and not used in release builds.

Re:about:config

[TheRealSlimShady]

It is obviously used to make beta builds stop functioning after a certain date, and not used in release builds.

Funnily enough, that's quite similar to the claim Microsoft made about the error message that popped up running beta versions of Windows under DR-DOS.

Re:about:config

[Gerv]

It's important to note that, while the code still remembers the first launch time, there is no end-time configured - so the bomb will never go off.

As the man says, it's a code relic.

Gerv

Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[Pvt_Waldo]

If they could get Chatzilla and Mail in the main tabbed interface it would roxorz IMO.

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[lune tns]

The opera 7 mail client is tabbed - it rox0rs, IMHO.

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[IvyMike]

It's not really supported or production worthy, but try typing "chrome://messenger/contents/messenger.xul" and "chrome://chatzilla/contents/chatzilla.xul" into your URLbar.

It's clearly not totally debugged, and weird stuff can happen (who knows), but it seems to sort of work for me.

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one thing I have thought too. I think it is the logical conclusion of using tabs.

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[bad_sheep]

You can already do such thing :)

open a tab, type:
chrome://chatzilla/content/chatzilla.xul
o pen another tab, type:
chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul

and so on... :)

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[jbrandon]

What about composer?

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[jbrandon]

what about composer?

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[IvyMike]

Just tried it: "chrome://editor/contents/editor.xul"

Hosed my mozilla, but neat to watch it crash and burn: "chrome://venkman/contents/venkman.xul"

Once again, your mileage may vary.

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[David Gerard]

Beware - if JavaScript is enabled in the browser, it will be enabled in the chromed-in email tab!

Re:Let's see Chatzilla and Mail put in a tab!

[x3ro]

'roxorz' ?? ... go wash your mouth out with $0@|) and \/\/@+3®

500,000 downloads

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla 1.4 has been downloaded over a half million times in the past 3 week

... and I still can't get the damn thing to work.

Just to be fair to IE

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to be fair, why is it that most Mozilla folks constantly bitch that IE doesn't support PNG transparency (actually does, but it's a kludgy hack), but Mozilla's implementation is broken?

Re:Just to be fair to IE

[Anonymous Coward]

Works fine for me, and I use PNG all the time. And, IE doesn't support full transparency, DirectX does, and that's why you need a kludgy hack.

Re:Just to be fair to IE

[archen]

It's not just transparency, it's partial transparency across multiple channels as well. A PNG is far more than the glorified GIF that people make it out to be. I don't know what the parent poster was complaining about but "extremely broken" is a gross overstatement. Buggy, yes, but many things in Mozilla are still pretty quirky - I wouldn't call CSS support extremely broken just because Mozilla still completely fucks up a file upload field whenever you attempt to control it with CSS - it's just another bug (that hasn't been fixed)

Re:Just to be fair to IE

[Jeffrey Baker]

Fine, but when moz makes your X server behave as though it is rendering into the display across a 9600bps serial link, you'll get an inflated opinion of the brokeness.

Re:Just to be fair to IE

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of Microsoft's software line appears to be kludgy hacks strung together to form what appears on the surface to be a cohesive OS, word processor, browser, etc. Then you string the strings of kludgy hacks together and you get the evil that is known as interdependence....

Re:Just to be fair to IE

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you link us to an example of this? I've used Moz under X for a couple of years and haven't noticed this particular problem.
And yes, I use full alpha channel. and JNG

Mozilla is Dying

[Anonymous Coward]

It is official; Netcraft confirms: Mozilla is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Mozilla community when IDC confirmed that Mozilla market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all web browsers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Mozilla has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Mozilla is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Mozilla's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Mozilla faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Mozilla because Mozilla is dying. Things are looking very bad for Mozilla. As many of us are already aware, Mozilla continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Netscape 7 is the most endangered of them all, having lost 100% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant firing of all 50 Netscape developers by AOL only serves to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Mozilla is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Mozilla.org leader Mitchell Baker states that there are 7000 users of Mozilla. How many users of Firebird are there? Let's see. The number of Mozilla versus Firebird posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Firebird users. Camino posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Firebird posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Camino. A recent article put Netscape 7 at about 80 percent of the Mozilla market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Netscape 7 users. This is consistent with the number of Netscape 7 usenet posts.

Netscape went out of business and will probably be taken over by AOL who sell another troubled browser. Now AOL is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that Mozilla has steadily declined in market share. Mozilla is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Mozilla is to survive at all it will be among browser dilettante dabblers. Mozilla continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Mozilla is dead.

Fact: Mozilla is dying

What? No yEnc support?

[jbottero]

Mozilla.org STILL has no plans to support yEnc encoding. Wonder if they have some deal with the Agent people.

Re:What? No yEnc support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably because it's not an official standard.

Re:What? No yEnc support?

[Anonymous Coward]

No one wants to implement it.
There is also no way to combine usenet messages into one either... which would probably be needed before yEnc support.

Re:What? No yEnc support?

[jbottero]

YOU may not want to implement it, but pay a visit to usnet, you will see it in WIDE use.

Re:What? No yEnc support?

[Ramze]

Most news readers implimented yEnc within the first 6 months of its initial release. Mozilla's still waiting around fixing other problems while this one's been on hold for about a year and a half since it's initial proposal on bugzilla.

At least it looks like people are working on the issue now

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1199 64

Even if they did include yEnc support, I'd probably continue to use Xnews (free newsreader with yEnc support) instead, though. I'd prefer to use Xnews b/c it's a stand-alone news reader... that's all it does & it's good at what it does.

Many of these "suite" programs loose sight of what users want and fail to impliment changes quickly. They're busy on the browser part, so they slack off on the newsgroup part w/ yEnc.. or maybe slack off on some other part in favor of another. I think Firebird is an excellent browser & with a little work, it'll be the best one out there... in part because that's all it does. Seperate projects with seperate teams helps keep focus on important features. One part of the "suite" doesn't suffer because people are focusing on another part because they give that other part higher priority. Outlook Express (MS's mail reader) has newsgroup capability bolted on -- but, it's crappy & it'll stay crappy because Microsoft, the monster with many heads, doesn't have any reason to make improving newsgroup reading a priority... so, they'll probably impliment yEnc sometime after hell freezes over... or there's an official RFC for it whichever comes first... lol. Unfortunately, many suites suffer from the high priority of one portion which makes the suite little more than one cool application with lots of other crappy ones bolted on that are hardly worth using.

That's not to say that all suites suffer from this problem... or that Mozilla as a whole is necessarily suffering from it. I hear Chatzilla is pretty neat, but I haven't bothered with it as I have a stand-alone IRC client that I'm happy with (MIRC). Still, I think dropping the ball on yEnc support, the most popular encoding method on usenet, is akin to dropping the entire newsgroup reader b/c attempting to download anything would be useless without either native yEnc support or a plugin like Yproxy.

Just my 2 cents

Re:What? No yEnc support?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, I don't want to program it. And it appears neither do other programmers working on the project. If they did, it would probably be done by now.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that feature and the ability to join split files sent over usenet.

Enough Mozilla, More Firebird!

[Emperor Tiberius]

I don't know if I'm the only out there who's noticed, but, Firebird development has slowed considerably with all the Mozilla fuss. The next FB milestone (0.7 Indio) is going to be late almost two months in a few days. Meanwhile we've had the Mozilla 1.4 RC1, RC2, Final and 1.5 Alpha come out.

CVS checkins to the Firebird suite have also lagged behind. Personally, I would like to see FB development accelerated instead of put on the back burner.

Re:Enough Mozilla, More Firebird!

[jesser]

I've been seeing a lot of firebird checkins lately (past 3 weeks or so).

Re:Firebird based? - not quite yet

[patrickjolliffe]

Unfortunately it may take a bit longer than that. It'll take a year to get something shippable to end users (brendan)
This is disappointing to me as I use Firebird regularly and am really impressed, but I guess they (the developers) know what they are talking about.

Just a thought

[Raul654]

When I read that, the first thing I thought of was the Simpsons episode featuring Tomacco where Homer is offered $150 million and says he won't take anything less than $150 billion.

Mail Notification in Linux?

[Bill Dimm]

The problem that I've had with every version of Mozilla I've seen so far is that I can't tell when I have new email under Linux. Under Netscape 4.8, when new mail arrives the mail client icon on the KDE Kicker panel changes so I can see that I have mail even if the mail client is iconified. In Mozilla 1.x or Netscape 7.1 this does not happen, so I can't tell when new mail arrives if the browser and mail client are iconified or covered by other windows. I realize there is an option in preferences for audio notification, but it doesn't seem to work and I really don't want to annoy everyone in my office ever time I get email anyway.

Is there some simple work-around that I don't know about? Are there any plans to fix this? I've raised this issue on mozillazine.org and reported it to Netscape (a few weeks before AOL killed Netscape), but it seems to get no attention. This is a total showstopper for me. Someone please rescue me from having to use Netscape 4.8 for email...

Re:Mail Notification in Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

In gnome, you can right click on the taskbar and add-to-panel internet in-box monitor as many as you want and set them up for your pop boxes.

this way you don't even need moz loaded to know if you have mail and how many messages and in what mailbox.

ps: i use Thunderbird nightly

Re:Mail Notification in Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try using an OS that wasn't made by teenagers living in their parents basement.

Re:Mail Notification in Linux?

[Burnon]

I use that, but it's awkward in that it doesn't stay in sync with the mailer. If I read the new messages in the mailer, the panel monitor doesn't get updated until it next polls that mailbox, which is something that I don't want it to do at too high a rate with my IMAP mail server.

Since I use evolution as my mailer these days, it seems pretty reasonable to put something in the panel notification area for this purpose. I'm not sure if there's a sane way to add a gnome dependency like that to mozilla or not, but it sure would be nice...

Re:Mail Notification in Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Use fetchmail to download your mail to local mailspool. Then you can set the taskbar applet to check your mailspool every 5 seconds.

Re:Mail Notification in Linux?

[bach37]

Try using an OS that wasn't made by teenagers living in their parents basement.

Boy you have guts posting that.

Stop advertising your stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey guess what pencildick? IE has tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, and popup blocking also. Using free addons. What do you think about yourself and your stupid friends now, jackass? Like I said, you are blinded by your Microsoft hate and are simlply an empty headed peabrained pimplyfaced greasy hairy smelly zealot.
We dont need you here, you are just another pathetic sheep. Get lost.

Re:Stop advertising your stupidity

[swordgeek]

Congratulations!!!

That was perhaps the single most brainless and illiterate troll I've seen in the last year. You have really outdone your genre.

Re:Stop advertising your stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

And theres nothing sheeplike about accepting a browser that cannot handle the symptoms of browsing (popups etc) without installing 3rd party add-ons.

Browsing functions should be functions of the browser, stupid huh.

Er, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're joking, right?

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/2 2/ 0122200
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/ 19/221323 7
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/12/224 822 3
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/14/125 623 1
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/06/164 522 9
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/05/013 249
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/18/1328 24 5

MSIE works, eh?

[LPetrazickis]

IE is free, dumbasses. And guess what? It actually WORKS!!!

In other news, the Wheel will never catch on because Dragging Things on the Ground works and is very widely deployed already.;)

Mozilla Rocks The House!

[Anonymous Coward]

I gave up on it.. now I'm back again! 1.4 rocks my world..

Quasy Hussein dead at 39

[Anonymous Coward]

I just heard the news on the radio, Quasy Hussein has been found dead in his home in Mosul with gun shot wounds. Whether you liked or not his barbaric ways, he was truly a Iraqi icon

Re:Quasy Hussein dead at 39

[Anonymous Coward]

found dead in his house after it took 200+ ereet US special forces and other assorted military (caterers perhaps?) to react to "walk in" intelligence to kill him. and even then it took a 6 hours, helicopter gunship support.

U S A! U S A!

Fuck man, your goddamn army cant even take out 2 brothers, a bodyguard and a 14 year old boy without going in with 50 to 1 odds AND hi-power helicopter -gunship support.

U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A!

MNG Support?

[molo]

Does this version include MNG support? It was included, working, and then REMOVED from the trunk!

See bug 18574 for more information:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1857 4

If you agree that MNG support is useful, please vote for the bug, with the following link. 528 other people have already voted in support of restoring MNG.

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/votes.cgi?action=sho w_ user&bug_id=18574

-molo

PS: I would make real links out of it, but bugzilla denies anything with a slashdot.org referrer.

Yea, that worked, 5 years ago

[eakerin]

I don't know what sites you try to surf, but a lot of the ones I hit, need javascript to function properly, wanna hit that link. oh it calls a javascript function, wanna view that video, nope, javascript there too.

I just don't let it do crap i don't like (move/resize windows, remove my bars, close windows, etc) and suddenly, javascript is fine with me. I still get to buy stuff off of websites (only the ones that DON'T have pop-ups, cause I refuse to support ones that do). And I don't have to put up with the other sites that use javascript to be evil. Best of both words

Re:Yea, that worked, 5 years ago

[jesser]

I just don't let it do crap i don't like (move/resize windows, remove my bars, close windows, etc) and suddenly, javascript is fine with me.

Start using bookmarklets and you might even end up liking JavaScript!

Sweet...

[Insurgent2]

...but if Mozilla is all you use, you won't be going to BuyMusic.com

Re:Sweet...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi,

Please post the link to BuyMusic.com. I clicked on the above link but it only took me to a site that sucks with horrible colors and non-conforming HTML.

Thanks.

Re:Sweet...

[Wolfier]

So...it comes to another feature request...

Customizable user-agent string with a set of choosable defaults.

It should have been there WAY earlier. Why can't we see it still?

Re:Sweet...

[thetamind_pyros]

There is a customizable user-agent switcher plugin for Firebird with built in defaults including: IE6, Netscap 4.8, Opera 7.11.

Re:Sweet...

[Salsaman]

I won't go there anyway. 'Buy' some music with crappy DRM built in ? Not bloody likely.

Re:Sweet...

[Neophytus]

they actually use ms-specific javascript to redirect you. thats even EASIER to disable

Re:Sweet...

[ReinoutS]

Google for the PrefBar or the Evangelism sidebar. They both offer the functionality you ask for.

how about palm sync support?

[Barbarian]

Well?

VMS

[djdavetrouble]

473 downloads,
beaten by beos:926

Re:CERT Advisory 7/22/2003: Mozilla Root Compromis

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree this is definitely a troll of a higher caliber.

Mozilla, now with more sucking power

[Anonymous Coward]

Hoover move asside. Nothing can harness the power of that 90 Watt processor for sucking like Mozilla.

Do you have some spare clock cycles? Is that new P4 just too fast? Not to worry, Mozilla will suck all the CPU time right up rendering Yahoo's hompage.

But that's not everything! Mozilla is great at sucking system memory -- not to mention your swap!

Plus, with the huge download size it's bound to suck up all your bandwidth.

Mozilla stands tall against the competition! It sucks more than: Windows 95, Solaris x86, StarOffice, Mac OS X 10.0, Java before JIT.

For industrial sucking use: SCO, RIAA (add Metallica for extra sucking), MPAA.

-- pi

what version are you using? works fine here

[Anonymous Coward]

xfree86 4.3 mozilla 1.4 pngs work as advertised.

sfsdfsdfds

[Anonymous Coward]

dfdsfsdf

Draggable tabs

[CaptainSuperBoy]

This is my one feature request: Draggable tabs. There is no way to rearrange the order that the tabs are displayed in - you should be able to drag them left and right in the browser window. Once you open a tab, you are stuck with its position relative to your other tabs. Doesn't seem hard to do, and it's been in bugzilla for years.

Re:Draggable tabs

[puggled]

I agree and the ability to drag a tab outside of the window to make it the first tab of a new window would also be fantastic (and being able to drag a window back into another so that it becomes a tab would also be great).

Re:Draggable tabs

[panaceaa]

What is the bugzilla bug number? I'd like the same feature and I'd like to vote for it. Thanks!

Re:Draggable tabs

[kinko]

this is one of the best things about galeon, in my opinion. The tab implementation is much better than mozilla's. Also, each tab has its own "x" close button so you don't accidentally think of closing the whole window instead of the tab.

Re:Draggable tabs

[radja]

I think tabextensions does that..
(well, I think that's the one. I just tried dragging a tab in moz1.4, and it works without a glitch.)

Re:Draggable tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the TabBrowser extension. It allows dragging and more. It is listed under Extensions at
texturizer.net/firebird

Visit the author's webpage to install the extension if you are using Mozilla browser, the Install Click Here link is only for Firebird. I am so hooked to this extension and wondering why the author does not list the extension at mozdev.

Re:Draggable tabs

[colinramsay]

The tabbed browsing extensions allows this and much, much more. It's my most important extension. Link.

Re:Draggable tabs

[psykocrime]

This is my one feature request: Draggable tabs. There is no way to rearrange the order that the tabs are displayed in - you should be able to drag them left and right in the browser window. Once you open a tab, you are stuck with its position relative to your other tabs.

Install Multizilla

Re:Draggable tabs

[juhaz]

Galeon has dragging tabs in/out of windows.

Re:Draggable tabs

[CaptainSuperBoy]

The number is 105885. Vote up! I see there are a few add-ons that allow this, I don't see why it's not part of the main browser though. I will try the add-ons but I'm expecting them to be a little clunky.

p.s., any idea why they don't allow links from Slashdot? Are they afraid of being linked from the front page?

let us know when you've finished writing it...

[Anonymous Coward]

cum mopper.

I cant read html without Mozilla any longer..:D

[miffo.swe]

I have to say Mozilla/Firebird has really grown onto me. At work i have to use IE and what bugs me is that while Mozilla has evolved fast IE has been standing still. Things like popup kill, tabs, privacy and cookie management etc, i just cant be without them now that im used to them. Today Mozilla is the best browser out there without a doubt.

To the Mozilla decelopers and Netscape/AOL, thank you!

Re:I cant read html without Mozilla any longer..:D

[olman]

To the Mozilla decelopers and Netscape/AOL, thank you!

If you feel that way, there's a paypal button in the mozilla.org main page..

Re:Firebird based? - not quite yet

[Brendan Eich]

That quote from staff minutes was out of context. I was citing the agreement I'd reached with all-volunteer Mozilla Firebird developers before the Mozilla Foundation was announced, where 0.7 would coincide with 1.5, 0.8 with 1.6, etc. I went on to say to staff, at that meeting, that if we get more time from the developers, the schedule could be shortened.

Now, we hope to hire a Firebird developer fulltime at the Mozilla Foundation, and we expect to go faster. No promises yet; the roadmap will be updated in due course.

Composer Tips?

[ewhac]

I've been doing a fair amount of mucking around in Mozilla Composer lately and, while it's okay for writing first-approximation Web pages, I've found the UI to be really inconvenient for some things.

The thing likes to pollute the document with line breaks (<BR>) everywhere, which is darned annoying. Creation and maintenance of directory lists (<DL> <DT> <DD>) is really finicky -- do things in the wrong sequence and the formatting will be ruined. I find myself making constant trips to the source window, fixing up broken or unnecessary HTML. It also offers no help at all in composing and previewing style sheets.

I'd really like Composer to be a good WYSIWYG HTML editor, but it seems to be sorely lacking. Is it just me? Is there some Secret Book of Composer Power Usage Tips that I haven't found yet, or does it really fall as short as I think it does?

Schwab

Re:Composer Tips?

[sremick]

Not to mention, if you indent your lists, it doesn't even generate valid HTML. See bug# 54479.

That one gets me all the time. :( And it's been around for almost 3 years.

Re:Composer Tips?

[Anonymous Coward]

" Is there some Secret Book of Composer Power Usage Tips that I haven't found yet?"

Yes. It's right here. :P

Re:Composer Tips?

[glazou]

About
: yes, I can agree with that. We currently use a lot of
because Gecko forces us to do so. If there is no content, there is no frame (basically, that's how we call the abstract boxes rendered on the canvas); and if there is no frame, we can't place a caret... Given how much the layout team was axed last week, I don't think we'll have a fix for this very big issue any time soon. I am myself working on another approach, ie make Composer get rid of any useless
as soon as possible. You have to understand that's not a simple task _at all_. I currently have a fix in my own tree, but it's not fully satisfactory yet.

About definition lists: I agree too and I am working on it.

About nested lists, bug 54479: that's a major issue, and solving it is a HUGE work. I have a partial fix for this that helps **creating** valid nested lists but does not handle copy/paste yet.

About editing stylesheets, you were probably on another planet during the last year and a half ;-) I recommend you take a look at http://cascades.mozdev.org/ or build yourself the editor in mozilla/extensions/editor/cascades.

Daniel Glazman, Mozilla Composer module owner and author of CaScadeS.

Re:Composer Tips?

[ewhac]

About editing stylesheets, you were probably on another planet during the last year and a half ;-) I recommend you take a look at http://cascades.mozdev.org/ or build yourself the editor in mozilla/extensions/editor/cascades.

Holy crap!

I had no idea this existed. I just installed it and, while it's a bit clunky and confusing, it exposes everything I wanted to see and lets me play with CSS in almost the very way I wanted to. Thanks for pointing this out!

As for the <BR> issue: Have you considered creating a "meta-frame" which sits on top of the main page? The caret lives in the meta-frame and, once concrete HTML can be compiled, the HTML gets moved to the main page. The caret never enters the main page -- a meta-frame is built out out of whatever paragraph/element the caret's placed in, which overlays the main page.

Just thinking off the bottom of my ass here (as opposed to the top of my head, whose ideas are usually of higher quality).

Schwab

No it's not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari is faster and more reliable than Camino.

Roaming?

[Jahf]

I still don't see roaming. There needs to be a final monolithic version (ie, not Firebird/Thunderbird) that supports roaming. That way companies who are still stuck on Netscape 4.79 for its roaming capabilities can migrate to a newer engine.

Yes it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Camino is faster and more reliable than Safari.

Re:Yes it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari is faster and more reliable than Camino, times two.

Re:Yes it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Camino is faster and more reliable than Safari, times infinity.

Re:Yes it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari is faster and more Camino than Opera.

re: sour

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy, Pad're? HAhahahahahahaha ... Good ol' Mozerino_1.4 managed to hose not ONLY itself on my solid P4/WinME system , but also cripple FLASH for steady, reliable NS_6.2.3 ... What kinda 6-finger webtoe dweezles are beta_testing MOZ? Rejects from a 6502 project with KDE ?? Maybe buncha SAMBA_slammers who really favor the Lambada. What's next for MOZ? Same as last - low_beta_trash_maleware.

what timing

[buddha42]

Today I just so happened to be testing out my new mod_log_sql setup on the small college website I run in part. In the 650,000 GET/POST requests we've gotten since friday morning, only about 2.5% were from anything with "Gecko", "Netscape6", "Netscape/7", "Firebird"Galeon", or "Camino" in the user agent string.
Interestingly enough, Netscape/4.7 came up with about 3.2% (3/4 of which were from on-campus).

fortunatly we're approaching 1-year of being xhtml & css devotees and its suprisingly easy to be xhtml1-strict compliant and use tableless or low-table layouts that work in 96+% of our 'human' traffic (which btw IE 6.0 is more than 65% of).

Anyway, sorry for the stats ramble, I just though it was really cool to have access to real numbers today, not just rumors and zealous flamewars.

Re:what timing

[ssstraub]

I use AWStats on my website, and Mozilla Firebird 0.6 identifies as "Mozilla 5.0". It doesn't look like you searched for that...

Re:what timing

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the missing 30% ?

No problem here... at 1/4 your CPU

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a AMD K6-2 300 w 192MB RAM, And I've never noticed a performance problem with Mozilla 1.3, other than initial startup the first time I login after a reboot.

Perhaps there is something seriously broken about your setup.

Removed MNG support

[Mr Z]

Part of the reduced size comes from removing MNG support. If you want it back vote on Bug 18574.

(Note, because Bugzilla blocks Slashdot referrers, you might have to copy the URL into the URL bar rather than click directly on it.)

As for faster -- I just restarted Mozilla 1.4 after having left it open for a week or two. It's about 3x the speed. How much of the speed improvement that you're noticing comes from restarting the browser?

--Joe

pushing software

[zymano]

may be the only way to get people to adopt it.

Draggable tabs

[docmittens]

... exist in Opera:

• linux
• windows

also:

• native mouse gestures
• pop-up blocking (allow all, block all, allow requested)
• M2 mail client
• incredible and always improving standards support

if you tried it and bailed, try again. it really is worth another look.

++ of course, I have no affiliation with Opera Software aside from owning a registered copy ($39) of their phenomenal browser.

Ugh

[Anonymous Coward]

Just run pwm fullscreen and get it over with :)

Bug 18574

[Mr Z]

Vote for Bug 18574 if you want MNG support to come back in.

--Joe

Re:Bug 18574

[bogado]

To go into the bugzilla you must not be comming from slashdot. So to use the above link just copy the link location and middle click in the mozilla window you want it to load (be careful to not middle click a link)

All those new composer features....

[fm6]

...and there still isn't a simple way to insert a

tag!

Re:All those new composer features....

[glazou]

> ...and there still isn't a simple way to insert a

tag! This is a joke I presume ? The dropdown menu in the formatting toolbar can transform the current block-level containers of the selection into paragraphs. It has always been here.

Re:All those new composer features....

[Stuart Gibson]

I like the following way:

1. Type
2. Type p
3. Type >

Goblin

Re:All those new composer features....

[Stuart Gibson]

Of course, my finger hitting submit instead of preview (which I really did mean to do) in no way lessens the comic effect.

<

Goblin

Re:All those new composer features....

[fm6]

I said a simple way. Having to stop and do a menu item every time I start a new paragraph is not my idea of "simple".

Re:All those new composer features....

[fm6]

Even if you could type, that wouldn't be very funny or interesting. You do know we're talking about a WYSIWYG editor here, right?

Re:All those new composer features....

[Stuart Gibson]

Yes, yes I did. I was making an observation that WYSIWYNG editors are, in my opinion, a waste of time and the action to go through a dropdown menu and find the appropriate tag would actually take longer than hand coding the tags in the first place.

But that's ok, it seemed funny at the time ;)

Goblin

Re:All those new composer features....

[glazou]

This is once again a joke I presume ? When you are editing a paragraph, two hits on the CR key create another paragraph.

Re:All those new composer features....

[fm6]

That used to work. Doesn't on the latest version.

No STARRTTLS Support Yet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite CRAM-MD5 being finally fixed, the amazingly obtuse way Mozilla handles secure IMAP is still there: You either use plain, unencrypted IMAP on port 143, or you use IMAPS over 993.

There's no STARTTLS support (on port 143) yet, which renders Mozilla Mail and Thunderbird useless in some ultra-paranoid corporate settings...

posters

[Anonymous Coward]

posters of mozilla in small city

One more time!.....THE WORLD IS WAITING!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it come with a Flash blocker?
Is it on by default?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Mozilla tips !

[MythMoth]

Lots of tips & tricks for mozilla at MozillaTips logically enough.

They've got some good stuff already, but could probably use the extra traffic !

D.

Stability on Mac OS X?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am using Mozilla 1.4 on Mac OS X 10.2 and it is not as stable as version 1.3.1: it tends to crash or to get stuck...

Is Mozilla 1.5 going to be more stable?

Thanks!

Mozilla Composer

[onco_p53]

What really bugs me about composer is that when you view the HTML source it is in mono-colour text. How hard can it be to use the same scheme as the "view page source" window when you are examining a webpage.

The different colours make identifing the code much easier

Re:Mozilla Composer

[metz2000]

I would have to agree with you on that one. I would really use Composer a lot more if colour-coding was implemented.

Re:Mozilla Composer

[onco_p53]

OK I have submitted this to bugzilla. You can track it here.

Re:Mozilla Composer

[glazou]

Colouring the source is easy. Keeping the colours correct while the source is edited is MUCHO harder. This is one of the things I plan to work on in a close future. Daniel, Composer module owner

Mozilla finally confirms quit when tabs are open!

[NighthawkFoo]

Improvements to tabbed browsing including:

• Back and Forward navigation for tabbed browsing and bookmark groups has been improved. Users can now use the back button after loading a bookmark group to restore the previous tabs.
• Closing a window with multiple tabs now prompts the user with a confirmation dialog (which can be disabled for future close operations.)

Finally! I'll never have to worry about closing all my tabs in Mozilla when I accidentally hit Ctrl+Q instead of Ctrl+W.

and now back to Evil Software Patents

[bill_mcgonigle]

the ability to drag a tab outside of the window to make it the first tab of a new window would also be fantastic

Yeah, everybody wants it but Adobe has a patent on it. Or is there uncited prior art?

Rebuttal by Brendan

[revscat]

See this post.

huh?

[Ender Ryan]

I've been using Mozilla for years with PNGs will full alpha transparency and have never seen anything like this. What versions of X, libpng, and Mozilla are you using?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I just wish... Mozilla had decent speed

[lordmage]

Try doing this.

bring up mozilla. put it down in Windows and minimize it. wait say 30 minutes.. and try accessing it again.. takes over 30 seconds before you can address it.

Unlike IE.. which is instant.

Please oh please stop adding features and make it fast! It had enough features now!

Re:I just wish... Mozilla had decent speed

[bach37]

Uh, can we say FIREBIRD? Hello, welcome to earth, you are clear to land.

-Scott

Re:I just wish... Mozilla had decent speed

[Anonymous Coward]

On my 2.4Ghz Pentium4 with 1GB of ram and 128MB video ram, Mozilla runs great!
Unfortunately, Java is still as slow as molasses. I was shocked at this, because when I bought these machines (I got 2) I figured that now, finally, my java and java IDE will run at the speed that all them java advocates had me believing that java runs at. Unfortunately, them advocates were full of manure. Java runs at a speed that I would consider to be O.K., not blazing fast, just O.K. -- Hopefully when 64bit processors become the norm in the next couple of years, the speed issue with java will finally be a non-issue -- unfortunately, that has not occured yet.
Netbeans and Sun1 IDE take so long to load that I do all my java programming in vi -- it's actually faster to not use an IDE than it is to use one when programming in java -- not to mention that
I now cuss less while programming java on vi than when I programmed in a slower than molasses IDE.
Visual studio works fine, and on my other identical machine running linux, Kdevelop works great -- a wonderful ide with excellent documentation and a nicer look and feel than even visual studio if i do say so myself...
Please forgive the rant and rave....

Darn!

[LooseChanj]

The build I just d/l'ed is labeled 1.5b.

Alpha??

[Sajarak]

Why, when I go to Help -> About Mozilla, does it say:

Mozilla 1.5b
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030722

Are they calling their alphas betas now?

Re:Alpha??

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like you got a nightly rather than the Alpha.

Mozilla 1.5a Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5a) Gecko/20030718

back button history not inherited bug

[CanadaDave]

Hey everyone, vote for this bug: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18808 and this bug, http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22788, the most annoying bugs in Mozilla

Mozilla Suite 1.5?

[mbbac]

I thought 1.5 was going to consist of the new Firebird and Thunderbird components with Sunbird trailing afterwards.

What happened?

iRider

[Dispossessed]

(Disclaimer: I'm a firm Opera fan.)

I found this recently. It seems to be quite a fresh approach to browsing interfaces, and may be worth a serious appraisal. Be warned, though: it uses IE for rendering.

Whew! A reprieve

[steveg]

I'm trying to like Firebird Browser. I really am.

I've got one machine where that's the only browser I use.

But so far I'm finding most of its changes irritating (the way it handles searches by default, the way it handles sidebars, etc.)

It's not so much that I want a full suite like Seamonkey, but I'd prefer the browser to work more like Seamonkey's browser component.

Meanwhile, at Microsoft someone reads this...

[djeaux]

... and Longhorn gets a tabbed desktop with mouse gestures that only work with a Longhorn-certified Microsoft mouse.

Don't install the IRC client

[Anonymous Coward]

> I mean, does my web browser REALLY need an IRC client?!

Why did you install the IRC client it if you didn't want to?

It's not so difficult to check only the browser when Mozilla asks you what to install.

Aren't we geeks supposed to know how to install a program?

Re:Firebird based? - not quite yet

[CaptnMArk]

Is there a checklist of missing functionality that needs to be ported from mozilla to firebird?

Is it just me,

[Julian Morrison]

...or is Moz revving through point-one releases awfully fast, and for not much gain? Why for example is this release not numbered 1.4.1?

Re:Composer Buggy as Hell

[BjarneDM]

Well, Cascades 0.3 has been hosed on Mac OS X for a long long time. I filed bugs on this a long time ago but no action has been taken regarding these issues :-(

Re:Mozilla finally confirms quit when tabs are ope

[CaptnMArk]

Until you learn the Ctrl+W OK reflex and it bites you someday.

Re:Composer Buggy as Hell

[glazou]

Yes. In case you did not hear about it, which I doubt, Netscape has been _a little bit_ under pressure between july 2002 and now... It's only a question of priorities, like everywhere in the industry. Filing a bug does not mean the resources for fixing the bug automagically appear next door, right ?

The proof of the pudding

[marnanel]

Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

Re:CaScadeS Buggy as Hell

[BjarneDM]

I do know that; and I do appreciate the effort taken by all; and I do try to involve myself at my level of expertise (http://mozilla.mathiesen.info/); and I would really really like to recommend Mozilla+Composer+CaScadeS to the people I know, but the broken CaScadeS makes this impossible for me.

Now, is there any way I can be of help to get CaScadeS to work on Mac OS X ??? You do state on the webpage that you don't want any help

Erm

[Anonymous Coward]

yenc solves a problem (mime's 'binary' transport format; it's there, read the rfcs) that's already been solved in a much cleaner and standards-compliant (read: mime-friendly) way. Why don't news client apps support encoding/decoding that? Or do they and yenc'ing is as moronic as it has been made out to be?

Yawn (FUD and lies, and what to do instead)

[Anonymous Coward]

More of the FUD and the lies.

You know, you can promote your favoutite thingy without resorting to lies, and in the end, you will win much more that way.

Mozilla and IE render pages at about the same speed, depending on the page. I haven't clocked them, but the experience is pretty much the same. Mozilla the application, however is slower than IE the application, for several reasons, among them is the one that MS "cheats" in a way that Mozilla can't, and well Moz is doing a lot more. Plus it gets swapped out often, even if you have memory over.

So, MS cheats, and that sucks, but it doesn't change the facts.

And this is how you are hurting the cause (severly, at that, too): You say to people that Mozilla crashes less and is much faster than IE. They think "woohoo", and try it out. When this proves to not be the case, they will stop using it and never look at it again.

If you wish to promote Mozilla, you should talk about the good things it has that IE hasn't, such as ads blocking and lots of other neat features. If it is geeks you are talking to, standards compliance might be an argument too (though most people don't really care). For some people, the open source argument is quite compelling, and again, som couldn't care less.

But whatever you do, stop lying! I want Mozilla to succeed, and you sir, are not helping! If you can't actually mention the good stuff, then please just shut up instead.

Hey, check out MyIE2!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's got all that and more and uses the IE rendering engine.

Just because it's not build in doesn't mean you can't DL something better for Windows.

Sorry,

[Anonymous Coward]

But Moz has been like dragging the entire cart for 8 years ever since the 4.x horse died. It's still got rough spots where they should not exist (even though it's feature fever is at it's peak).

IE does just work. Reliably, always. IE is the wheel, well oiled and balanced, without fancy hubcaps or spinning lights. It gets you there with a minimum of fuss and stupidity. Something Moz rarely does.

Obviously that's little interest to Linux users, but for Windows users, moz is just another giant blob that provides virtually no benefit.

(In fact if your featuritis starved, there are IE wrappers that do a hell of a lot of the "cool" stuff Moz does, but still renders your banks pages correctly and adds virtually nothing to the memory footprint over IE)

<pu>

[fm6]

Fine, you're a bigot, who doesn't care about the needs of any computer user except yourself. This a really fascinating topic of conversation, but I have to go trim my toenails now.

That "top frame" bug is killing me

[__aapcal5261]

Mozilla would be my only browser if not for the fact that it categorically refuses to render the top frame at my.lycos.com and [don't laugh] www.escortracing.com. I may be the only person on Earth visiting those sites, so maybe I'm the only one to notice.