Slashdot Mirror
10th Circuit Says FTC Can Enforce Do Not Call
TCPALaw writes "Reuters is reporting
that the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals has just ruled that the FTC can
go ahead with administration and enforcement of the national Do-Not-Call
list, staying a lower court ruling that blocked the FTC from
implementing the list. Now I can sue
those pesky telemarketers .. I have already gotten
3 telemarketing calls to the phone number I put on the national list
since the list went into effect."
Reader jhlund1976 points to the court's decision itself. Note, as
strredwolf does, that this only means the FTC can "run the registry while a
challenge from telemarketers winds its way through the courts." Strredwolf also points to the
all-knowing
Google News link.
So both the FCC and the FTC can enforce the do-not-call list. Personally, I don't care who enforces it as long as they have the power to do so.
here in canada we dont have any fancy do not call lists. I've started doing it the old fashioned way. when telemarketers call i tell them to please never call back again. before, i received at least 2 calls per day, now its about 3 per week, and the number keeps decreasing. it actually works, if you are getting repeat calls from certain parties. so, try that out, people in canada, and other non-US places.
It won't effect this type of scum http://www.datausainc.com
http://Lenny.com
At the end of the day its my choice if I want to speak to someone. If someone in the street says hi and I don't want to speak to them I won't. Also if I put a sign round my neck saying "Don't speak to me", as its my right I would like to think people would respect that.
If I do the same on my phone and say I only want people who I know or need to speak to contact me why shouldn't I be allowed? If I want to speak to someone about a product I will call them
In the UK there is something similar called the TPS (Telephone Protection System) which actually does work but the again we don't have the implicit right to free speech
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
"I have already gotten 3 telemarketing calls to the phone number I put on the national list since the list went into effect."
well, you can't sue them, since the list wasn't supposed to be enacted until early October anyway, meaning that even though your name was on the list, it was not yet banned from telemarketing calls.
- HeyYou
Telemarketers may still call you, if they have a pre-existing business relationship with you. So if you bank with BofA for example, BofA and all of its subsidiaries (and IIRC, business partners) can/will call you.
we'd just walk 30 miles in the snow to the local light plug, that's what we called power outlets back then. Then we'd run copper wire all the way to our phone, and send some through the line to melt the telco's links between me and them.
It only worked if you tied onions to your shoelaces, cause that was the style at the time...
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
on what (good) news will be brought to us tomorrow by the 11th Circuit.
We had a great decision from the 9th yesterday, and from the 10th today. Can we get the Hatrick?
Finally a good ruling on this. I have heard enough about free-speech, etc. The court has affirmed a simple fact: people have the right to end harassment against them.
It's not in force until the court cases are resolved, so yeah you will still get calls. Move to Pennsylvania, we have a DNC list and since being on it I have gotten no calls.
How do I extract the correct names of these callers and report them to the FTC when they call? I get at least three per day.
It's a numbers game, really. What is the bigger pain the the public's arse? 60 phonecalls / day that we don't want to get, or some regulation that gives us a central place to say, "don't call me, or I'll SUE YOU."
The fact is, for consumers, the numbers are against us. There are LOTS of businesses out there competing for our interest, and they will use any outlet they think is valid for their marketing purposes.
The more people they can get their message to, the better. That means that as they all expand their marketing efforts, we all get a lot more calls. The problem is, there's a limit to how many unwanted solicitations we as individuals can tolerate, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I've reached mine.
MakePassword.com Mp3 Blog
Although I agree that telemarketers don't have the right to call me at home if I don't want them to, I don't like this law because non-profit and politcal organizations are exempt. This is unconstitutional in that it makes a distinction between speech for profit and speech with other agendas. If it's not a free speech issue (as I think), but instead a no free platform for speech issue (i.e. you can have your free speech, but not in my living room), then I should have the right to block political and non-prfit calls as well.
Vote for Pedro
I am getting calls, but the callers say that it is legal because "they are not selling anything". They want to 1) lower my interest rate on my non-existant mortgage, 2) Have me over for 3 hours to watch their presentation on a time share, or 3) sell me insurance.
Why do these people think they can get away with it? Should I report them? I suspect that this law is filled with all sorts of holes, as usual. Anyone care to comment or having similar experiences?
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
I almost moved to canada!
...And it includes anyone and everyone who I don't recognize on my Caller ID.
If people don't have the courtesy to identify themselves when they call, I won't answer the phone. I certainly don't answer calls from the Number 1 caller, "Out Of Area".
And best of luck to anyone trying to sell windows to my answering machine.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
-- this is such a huge gap in the law. The call went something like, "Hello Mr. Foo, this is National First Mortgage and we are conducting a survey of people to see who would like to refinance..." That is where I hung up.
I expect as the number of telemarketing calls I receive drop, the number of surveys will increase.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The arguement about the free speech issue not withstanding, there is a very fact about this bill that makes the law completely irrelevant in the far term.
This is because of two loopholes that exist in the law. For one, you have the issue of the pre-existing business relationship. While this is not presently a problem, what you're going to see happen is many companies that were previously not in the business of telemarketing opening new subsidiaries solely devoted to offering their "valued customers" "valuable offers" from their "valued partners."
The second loophole really isn't a loophole per se, but a simple and unfortunante fact that US law does not affect those overseas. Already, a large portion of telemarketing is being pushed to overseas locations -- much like the rest of US jobs. Calls originating in India from a corporation headquartered in the Bahamas won't be affected by this law.
In short, all this law will do is cause a major shift in the telemarketing industry. Banks and grocery stores will become the new telemarketing companies, but in the long term, we'll just be annoyed by Indians and Cambodians.
Now that it's enforceable it's too bad that the list is locked out.
It's also worth noting that the site (previously) reported that it may take up to three months for any number you enter to be included in the list. So don't call your layer just yet.
All of those pre-recorded telemarketing calls have been illegal for 12 years and nobody would bust them. I hope the bigger fines will get somebody, somewhere interested in seeking out and fining the scofflaws.
I am an American, I live in the northeastern US, and I'm going to Quebec City this weekend for fun, because I like Canada. There is not this cultural difference that you think there is, you just have not yet come to accept that money rules
the north american continent. The reason it's called North American is because you are fucking owned by Americans, and it's time we learned to live with each other.
Basically, you haven't been subjected to the same stresses as Americans, mostly due to population density. Once you start feeling the bulge (and you already are along the American border) you will realize that feeding your kids is more important than your demeanor on the telephone at work.
Maybe, if we can see your point, and you can understand the causes of our situation, we will be able to work together (as we will eventually have to do) to find amenable solutions to the problems that give rise to belligerent telemarketers. But until Canadians can realize that, Americans will never be able to see past your perceived cultural virginity to be able to find a truly workable solution.
Hope that war doesn't try to solve the problems first.
All I've got left is a cell phone. No land line.
And the cost difference is $5... Less!
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
thinking about this. I wouldn't even sign up for the registry when a computer can now be used to screen your calls. It might just help those offshore telemarketing companies in annoying you at dinner if they can easily access the registry without even paying!
You know, regardless of a nocall list or not, there is still going to be loopholes! I got 2 calls last night for the past week or so from "mississipi call" and you know, this gal needs her beauty sleep, when I'm getting telemarketers calling this early, Its crazy during the workweek.
I just received an unsolicited call from a company claiming to be a market research firm. I immediately asked the phone biscuit to speak with a supervisor biscuit, who summarily informed me that research firms are exempt from the Do-Not-Call list, with which I am registered.
Can anyone provide any insight into whether this claim is true? I was under the impression that only political organizations and charities were exempt.
Please advise.
Thanks.
SiO2
The rules cover this
The telemarketing companies complain that the DNC list will severely harm their profits. But with some simple and rather obvious reasoning, it's very easy to dispute this claim.
Consider this, if your number is on the DNC list, chances are you weren't likely to buy much from a telemarketer, anyways. What telemarketers assume is the 50 million numbers that are on the list would be every bit as likely to buy from them as the numbers not on the list. I think my scenario is more likely.
I tend to think the people that haven't signed up to the DNC list either aren't really annoyed by telemarketers or they find some of the products useful and would buy from a telemarketer. There's also the people who don't know of the DNC list, but I doubt that accounts for very many people.
So the real effect of this is the people who are willing to buy from the telemarketers are far less likely to sign up for the list.
It was a wise webmaster who said, in response to some clients blocking their banner ads, that he doesn't care. If they block the banner ads, they probably wouldn't click or buy, anyway. It saves him bandwidth.
Along the same lines as his argument, I'd argue that this actually makes telemarketing more efficient. You are more likely to sell your products to someone who would not sign up for the DNC list than to someone who would sign up for it.
Another thing that really annoys me about telemarketers is when they call, they usually show up on my caller ID as UNAVAILABLE. The problem is there are also legitimate callers who show up the same. I think it needs to be mandatory that those conducting phone calls for the purpose of commercial activity (solicited or otherwise) should be required to display their number and business/name on the recipient's caller ID. This means if you're calling someone to try to sell them a product, you can't call anonymously, either.
Even if the DNC list is overturned in court, my idea for requiring them to show their caller ID information is completely constitutional. And anyone who has a caller ID can simply not answer the phone if they don't wish to receive such calls.
All those telemarketters losing jobs will be sad.
Now we need to change the internet email formats to stop SPAM.
- Sharon Davis (Governor's wife
- Barbara Striesand (sp?) Well known democrat
- Bill Clinton
- Al Gore
And Joe Lieberman for good measure on Monday. The end of one of the messages listed the local democratic party as one of the funders, so I gave them a call and left my own message with a piece of my mind.Sure makes me consider paying Verizon to block all non-caller ID calls.
-- Jack
I have a land line that I never connect to a phone. Its just for internet use. But, whenever I am filling out forms and providing phone numbers in applicatios, I give out this number.
I have a cell phone for all communication purposes and I only give out that number to the people who can call me. Once in a while, very rarely telmarketers call on the cell number too, but if I tell them they are calling me on my cell phone, they hang up and never call back.
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
Any foreign telemarketing company has a weak point, getting paid by a customer in the USA. The federal government and the credit card companies can block much of the money that flows from the USA to the companies in question.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I agree with parent.
You goddamn right, Bastard Operator From America!
[Red Telephone] This is GWB, what was your country ID again?
[tippy tappy tippy tappy] rm -rf ~/countryID
Nope... looks like you have plenty of room now.
Hope you have backups.
Oh, yeah. By the way, I've been reading your e-mail.
Apparently this is a little known fact, but for those of you still recieving calls after the 1st of October; perhaps you should be aware that the list is only issued to Telemarketing Firms quarterly. What does this mean to you? Well if you signed up after September 1st, then your name will not be on the list that goes into effect on October 1st. Instead, your name will be on the list that is issued on January 1st. Just a little clarification.
By cultural virginity I really mean your ability to operate as a community without significantly intrusive government intervention. If you think policy runs your life in Canada, it's 100 times worse in the states.
I view it as a good thing, for the record - an intact culture is one that hasn't been invaded and homogenized by big government. It's something I value, which is why I live in a small town in the state that I live in, but the inclusion and acceptance of public policy is key to our mutual understanding as we grow closer and closer together, and thus require greater and greater regulation to govern our everyday lives (because there really are stupid fucking people out there who will fuck things up for the rest of us).
As for being hungry for the money, yes - some of us are. I can say that making money is a significant goal for me over the next ten years. I would not however, run a telemarketing firm where we harrassed people at home during the evening. The folks who do this are another example of the abusers who require even more regulation. They are effectively the slashdot trolls of life, who require a moderation (and meta-moderation!) system.
Without understanding and acceptance it will only get worse, and it's up to use to make it better.
Peace from south of the border.
The second loophole really isn't a loophole per se, but a simple and unfortunante fact that US law does not affect those overseas. Calls originating in India from a corporation headquartered in the Bahamas won't be affected by this law.
While the US doesn't make international law, it is quite accepted policy that courts have jurisdiction over actions taken specifically against those inside their territory. Unlike SPAM, where you could reasoably argue you did not know where it is going, a US phone number is quite obviously in the US.
I think the most common analogy is, that if you stand on the Mexican side of the border and fire a rocket into the US, can you then be convicted in the US for murder? Yes sir. Or for the modern version, if you organize terrorist hijackings om the US from a cave in Afghanistan, can you then be convicted in a US court? Yes sir.
In the same way, corporations outside the US might find themselves convicted in US courts. Just about the worst the courts can do though, is to ban them from making direct business within the US, as e.g. DeBeers have been. Of course, since that is already the issue with the do-not-call list, I'm not sure if the courts has anything effective.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
they were interested in asking me questions of what I think about the quality of the financial services in my area.
do not call has turned into do not sell, but still bother.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
It's just too plain obvious that will happen next; in every 'charity' call, they will try and sell you stuff you don't want, and will 'donate' $1 to a charatiy, by that making it a 'charity' call.
So they will still call, telling you that they focus on they charity, trying to sell you stuff you do not want/need.
The rules are plain to unclear from my point of view...
Offshoring the call centers won't help because the company whose product is being advertised is still liable if the telemarketer is offshore. The "distributors" you speak of are similar to the "affiliates" that those MLM vitamin firms Berrytrim and Herbalife use to shield themselves from accusations of spam and illegal billboards. That may work up to a point. As the story shows, Herbalife affiliates go to great lengths to hide exactly what they're selling until you pay something to buy into their business opportunity.
EPIC has a handy timeline of Do-Not-Call Registry events at http://epic.org/privacy/telemarketing/dnc/
Help BSA (whom I hate and I think are morally unjust), or cause trouble to telemarketers, whom I hate just as much?
Decisions, decisions.
I choose the high ground and good karma today. Creating over destroying, helping over tearing down. Sharing should be allowed, legal, and considered helpful. I will not report. I will not help the BSA.
I will not assist a dysfunctional system.
because no such law was passed.
The Law says the government enforces my telling them they can't talk to me.
Vermifax
Logout
I'd think them telemarketeers would appriciate the reduction of numbers they call that would likely result in a hang up, and the people who can't say no to sales people should have a way to say no indirectly.
What this conflict does is just expose those who are in the business of selling names/number lists as I'm sure it will reduce their income by reducing the amount of what they sell.
Now I can sue the telemarketers, if someone ever gets on the line that is. A few weeks ago I decided to just start f#*$ing with the telemarketers. Sound like I'm interested, and keep them on the line for a while and then just start meowing.
What I've discovered is that most of the time when I pick up the phone and say hello I just hear clicks and then it hangs up on me. I get like 8 calls a day like this and most of the time never get to speak to someone. I finally got sick of it and did a *77 which is supposed to block calls without caller ID info but I'm guessing it only works for the Private (ie blocked) calls and not the Unavailable calls that come from most telemarketers.
I understand that computers do the actual dialing and they call multiple people and the first to answer and trigger the voice recognition software gets to the actual telemarketing drone but even when I answer on the first ring and start saying "Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello?...." it still hangs up on me.
Anyone else experiencing this?
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
read it here for a good chuckle.
1. Not for profit means political and marketing calls as well as many other types.
2. The calling being unsolicited does not include calls from companies with which you have a business relationship. Have you given a phone number for any service or product ever? Most of the calls in the last few weeks were to initiate a relationship with people before the list goes into effect. This links you to the company for any further calling until you answer their call with "Do Not Call Me".
Anyone that gives out their own contact information to undesirables deserves what they get. Anyone who lets the government make laws like the one enforcing this List is placing less control in their own life as well as mine.
STOP PICKING UP THE PHONE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ANSWER IT!!!
Here's the problem with your scenario:
Most people are impulse buyers to some degree, and the same is true for those who signed the list. I know lots of people that *hate* being called and would go to any lengths to stop it, but when they are called about the newest device to make your life easier, it's a buy in about twenty minutes. The telemarketers know this, and so, they rightly argue it will take away their revenue.
For crying out loud, I just received a message from "Concerned Republicans against Arnold Schwarzenegger", and then another from Martin Sheene "urgeing" me to vote for Cruz Bustamante!
They should extend the anti-solicitations list to anyone that costs me money on my phone usage; that means everyone, my next-door neighbor, relatives, with exception to The Stripper (she's a personal call *wing)
did anyone really bother to figure out that the do-not-call list doesn't actually prevent all telemarketing calls? You can still get calls from any company you EVER did business with and yes you can even get calls from those you just won a free vacation to...
the reality is maybe 1/4th of the calls you might have been getting would be illegal if your on the list... the list isn't this magic thing where no one can't call you.
/joeyo
2^5
Jesus christ thats funny.
...their lower horn removed. Even the chicks.
Telemarketers aren't allowed to call you on your cell, right? That seems pretty universal.
So, when you get The Call, tell them that this is a cellphone, regardless of whether it's a landline or not. By all reports, they hang up quick-smart and never call back.
Easier than saying "put me on your do not call list" by 4 words, too!
Or is this somehow illegal too?
I had one, but the wheel fell off.
The legislature passed that made the
do not call list as a balance allowed
cell phones to now be called.
She does, however, have a chequebook (well, had) and ever tried to a refund from these people?
Did you know that all these people need is your parents chequing account number and ABA routing number (an the bottom of you checks) to make a withdrawl from your account?
Fortunately, NACHA, the National Automated Clearing House Association has in the last few years made it incredibly easy to force a no-authorization (known as an R07 or R10) and subsequent refund for you, and 35 dollar penalty to the telemarketer on a fraudulently obtained chequing account number.
These people annoy us in our right minds, but prey on our elderly parents, and for that i signed both my parents numbers up, for what its worth.
At least in Australia, you can put up a sign that says "no hawkers" and if they do they can be prosecuted for trepassing if they do so.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
"Hold on! Back up. --What was that last part? I missed that."
When Telemarketer repeats, immediately interrupt again.
"No, no, no. Before that. Where are you calling from?"
Telemarketer pauses, tells you.
Immediately ask another inane question to keep them off balance. I like to use: "No kidding? Where is that? Do you actually work there, or are you calling from somewhere else?" (That's two questions; now the telemarketer has to really stop and think.) This is all it takes to turn the game around. The conversation is now progressing according to your timetable and agenda. Don't give them time to plug back in to their script.
From this point on, you can do whatever you want. You can kill the conversation altogether, or as I do when I'm feeling annoyed and anti-productive, is I'll start asking personal details, and question into their choice of job, or the validity of the product they are selling. If a charitable organization, tell them, "Wow, I thought I had respect for you guys; I had no idea you'd started doing telemarketing. This changes everything! I consider telemarketing morally repugnant. So, actaully, perhaps you can help me; I'd like to cancel the $30-per month automatic credit card donations I make to your organization. Can you do that from your desk?" (They can't.) If you are not making regular donations, pretend you are and sound really distressed and ignore their reasons when they refuse to cancel. "What kind of organization is this?" Make them dig up a phone number and contact name so that you can cancel your regular donations. This will scare them, because it's their job to make money, not give it up. After you've ruined the day for several layers of command structure, they might start to re-think telemarketing as a means of fund raising. It's your obligation to make this process as miserable as possible so as to keep your charity of choice on the level! Oh, and you can gurantee that your number will be crossed off a lot of lists after a few episodes like this one.
But when it comes right down to it, I've found that the following is the fastest way to terminate any of these calls:
Exuberently interrupt them and say, "Wow, that's great. But you know what? I am completely uninterested in what you're asking/selling. Sorry. But Take Care, and thanks for calling!"
(Click).
Always thank them. Always be civil and always try to enjoy the conversation in a happy way. This undermines the true purpose of telemarketing which, of course, is to pervert society by making people less tolerant of their fellow humans by making everybody more likely to feel mean and angry.
-FL
Let's be fair..many telemarking company are just trying to sell you products they paid $x at a price of $x+50 (usually) but this may vary. Nothing wrong with that. It's the way they do it that many of us consider inappropriate and annoying.
So if you can't win by a do-not-call list you can still get , even if -slowly- , rid of them by employing some simple tactics:
1) let the telemarketer talk forever, ask a lot of information, pretend you're interested in their product. It is perfectly legal. He/She may try to close the call by "so would you like to try/buy it ?". Pretend you need some more info, like color, size, weight..be creative. This way you're helping the person doing the job get paid (usually they're paid by per sale or per time) while you're adding more and more costs to telemarketing company.
2) if you do the above, NEVER close the call with a "i'll try or buy" ask them to call again in maybe one week.
3) if you're out, leave a note anybody answering the phone and have them ask the telemarketer to call again because you're out, but don't give them any other telephone number.
4) If you're pressured to buy for any kind of benefit (for sick children, aids, etc etc) I suggest you rather donate to somebody in need you know. Otherwise very little of your money if ANY will be received by somebody in real need.
At the end telemarketers costs will grow, they'll be forced to ask their advertiser for more money, but given that you didn't buy anything from them the advertisers will be very displeased and will drop them. They go out of business and stop annoying you for a long long time or maybe forever.
You literally OWN telemarketers, they live only thanks to YOU so YOU make the rules, they don't.
You so sure about that? Sure, money is important. But that is one of the biggest differences between us. I'd say in Canada we worship money but not to the exclusion of all else like in the US. I like to think of our approach as more of a long-term view. What I see out of the US is a lot of short-term thinking, especially lately. Let's summarize in these points/questions.
If you could get $10,000 tomorrow but it would cost you all your friends and goodwill would you take it? If you're an American at heart, you answer yes.
Point 2. Here in Canada we regularly face issues when money tries to dominate us. Take hockey, our unofficial national sport. The NHL specifically. There has long been a trend of rising wages, and financial problems of Canadian clubs (basically if a Canadian club hits the bottom of the rankings, it'll be gone the next year). One of the financial differences stems from the fact that we make our clubs pay for their arenas, where in the US that gets subsidized. Makes it hard for our clubs to turn a profit and stay competitive against US clubs, or so they say. I seem to remember the clubs asking for tax breaks and such for the arenas. At the cost of possibly losing our sport, we were opting for no. It's all a principle thing. If it becomes about money, then the US can have it. We'll build something from the ground up to replace it. Even our cherished sport. The reason it is cherished is not because it generates hot dog sales.
Also, I'm pretty sure "North American" doesn't exclusively refer to the US. You adopted the American term from the continent, not the other way around. Kind of like declaring yourself to be a human, or from Earth. Good to see education is alive and well in the *US of A* (think about that for a sec). Sorry. I had to.
Maybe, if we can see your point, and you can understand the causes of our situation, we will be able to work together (as we will eventually have to do) to find amenable solutions to the problems that give rise to belligerent telemarketers. But until Canadians can realize that, Americans will never be able to see past your perceived cultural virginity to be able to find a truly workable solution.
You refer to learning to work together and creating solutions etc. However, I like our relationship now, and don't really desire for it to change. I just don't see the problems you imply are there. If you mean you can't be bothered to absorb us until we get over our "values" and worship money then I hope you'll be disappointed. I for one don't want to get over my values, and I would submit that your worship of money is what creates your telemarketing problem (among others). If you developed substantial values (in addition to the value of money), maybe your problems would go away on their own (perhaps we do see the causes of your situation...).
Hope that war doesn't try to solve the problems first.
What the hell are you implying? Or is that just your sig that you use for all occassions. Could be either these days. ;) Are you suggesting that you would murder Canadians in an effort to help us learn to worship money. Thanks. Buddy.
1. Ask if you can bring a few friends to their session.
2. Get your RPG group together
2a. Make sure your friends are loud and obnoxious, maybe even drunk.
3. Play your favorite game in the middle of their session. Nothing disrupts a sales pitch worse than an argument over whether your 8th level bard can use that Harp of Undead Control he acquired in someone else's Monty Haul dungeon.
All I've got left is a cell phone. No land line.
Of course! Cell phones are illegal to call! Now, if only there were some way to get land lines that were also illegal to call....
Tweet, tweet.
There's also the issue of people who are signed up for the DNC list by others; for example, your elderly parents/grandparents might be losing touch a little bit, and thus be easier prey for hard-selling telemarketers. The DNC list lets people protect their family in situations like that, which means less profit for the telemarketers.
Besides, it's not like they'll really gain much from eliminating the absolute no-sell customers; those take almost no time for the telemarketers, so there's almost no cost for calling them. The massive efficiency gain that everyone likes to speculate about won't really come, because only a small fraction of phone time is (I would speculate, perhaps someone has numbers?) be spent on the "No! *click*" calls.
It amazes me how stupid net-savvy people are when it comes to reading laws.
Note to the author of the writeup:
This list is only going to save you from telemarketing "cold calls" which are usually calls from newspapers asking you to sign up.
This is not going to get rid of calls from people calling on behalf of the phone company, your credit card, or your bank.
This is also not going to get rid of the police and fire dept. "cold calls" that you get from time to time.
If anything, this list is a great way to give illegitimate telemarketing enterprises a free list of names. If you notice an *increase* in telemarketing calls, you'll think back to my response here and slap your forehead.
And if you think you can turn these companies in by yourself, that's great. Just try starting a lawsuit. Let's see how far you get before you give up cause of the time you have to put into it. My guess is you'll start looking at the annoyance of calls as simple compared to the annoyance of trying to figure out exactly *who* it is that you can sue.
If you have ever posted with "IANAL" you're basically SOL.
Yes, there are loopholes in the TSR (Telemarketing Sales Rule) that allow everything but "cold calls" (read: You've never done business with them or asked anything of them before), which are very few and far between, like another poster noted, usually are newspapers.
I'll probably end up sounding like a (-1, Troll) when I say that those pranks (like pretending not to be yourself to end the call) are doing nothing but inviting more calls! Picking up and hanging right back up without a word and using the answering machine to screen calls only GUARANTEE you a call back. How do you stop that? Here's how I stopped getting telemarketing calls I don't want:
Just say: DO NOT CALL!!!
That's right. Don't dance around it. By signing up for the DNC registry, you've already stopped the "cold" calls and told them so.
Any legitimate telemarketing firm will stop calling upon being told to do so. Of course, those same telemarketers will tell you that "You will no longer recieve calls about special offers, promotions, etc, with that in mind would you still like to be placed on the DNC list?" Answer yes to that question and you're all set.
Of course, I do so selectively, I'll let them identify themselves before I tell them so on the off chance that there may be something I'd want, like a cheaper deal from Verizon about DSL simply because I trust that company.
I'm done ranting now.
One way to screw telemarketing companies is to simply leave your phone off the hook. This holds open the switch at the exchange so even when they hang up and pick the phone up again, it is still connected to your line. This is why you are told not to hang up if there is a bomb threat - it keeps the connection open so they cannot use the phone again, and allows the phone company/police to track the line even if it is spoofed.
:)
It means that you've tied up that particular phone line until YOU decide to hang up. In my case, since I don't get many calls to my landline and people who know me call my mobile, I can leave it open a LOOOONNNGGG time!
If everyone did this, instead of the first reaction (to hang up), they would soon be immobilised.
Visceral Psyche Films
You guys are all losers. You say "I'm Thankful," but you have to stipulate it in some way. "I just wish..." not me. What I am thankful for is pure and unalienable. It is a right for which I have nothing but gratitude. The right to shoot all telemarketers on site!"
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
The phone company sells books(I'd imagine its software now) that is a complete list of every home number. It only has an address and a phone number no Name.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This law is no different then many other laws that exept Not for profit, religeons and political campaigns.
There are two ways to look at this:
1) The court general give political, charitable, and religous speech more lee way then commercial speech. always have, alway will. tere is pefectly good reasons for this, however this is not the place.
2)A compromise would you rather have this, or none?
me, I'd rather have this.
It is NOT unconstitutional because the courts that determin what is constitutional say it is not.
now, I would rather not get non-profit calls, but I have to take political calls, just in case the president needs me to save the world...again.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'd simply get a phone# that costs $2 a minute to call.
"Hello Sir, can I interest you in our latest product?"
"Why YES please tell me ALL about it"
I'm waiting for the "Do Not Spam" list. I get at least 50 spam e-mails a day. Sort of annoying as I administer a number of web sites and am dependent on e-mails for my job. Besides, I am quite satisfied with my current dimensions.
What is your favourite way to put off telemarketers?
* Not answer "anonymous" calls
* Hang up
* Be rude, swear, yell and then hang up
* Put them on hold indefinately
* Threaten with lawsuit
* Lie and say you already have that product
* Ask the to call back on a different number (which you don't answer)
* Buy the product
* Forward the call to CowboyNeal
This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.
If the free speech amendment protects telemarketers, then it should also protect other forms of unauthorized access to machines and computers over the phone lines, and it should protect virus writers that spam everyone with their worm.
The first amendment doesn't protect someone from blasting loud music at 1:00 am, it doesn't let you shout FIRE in a crowded theatre ( unless there really is a fire ), it doesn't let you slander someone unless they are famous, and it doesn't let you advocate breaking other laws. Noise pollution via the phone lines is no different in principle than noise pollution eminating from a 12 foot tall amplifier next door. They are disturbing the peace.
Eat at Joe's.
Oh sweet Jesus, this is good news! Now I can stop being so obscene on the phone. It was not very Christian of me but dammit it had to be done and I liked it!
Maybe the phone company ( a monopoly and so averse to innovation ) should get off their ass and design a protocol that will let you add numbers to your own private blocked calls list. You could have a 'report call as spam' button on your phone like Yahoo email does which would enable you to share and take advantage of other people's blocked call lists.
Eat at Joe's.
BZZT. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
Warren Burger, Chief Justice, SCOTUS wrote the majority opinion in Rowan v Post Office (May 4 1970) against unwanted junk mail, which is easily analogous to telemarketing (and spam):They're breaking the law:
- uses technology that ensures abandonment of no more than three percent of all calls answered by a live person, measured per day per calling campaign.
- allows the telephone to ring for 15 seconds or four rings before disconnecting an unanswered call.
- plays a recorded message stating the name and telephone number of the seller on whose behalf the call was placed whenever a live sales representative is unavailable within two seconds of a live person answering the call.
- maintains records documenting adherence to the three requirements above.
Personal note: If you want to sic the FTC on abandoners, you'll need to track them down first. There is a "star" number similar to *69 that IDs any incoming phone call (including blocked, out-of-area, etc) and records it at the local telco. The list can then be obtained by a judge or other law enforcement officials. Ask your telco and/or police department for this number, and use it after receiving abandoned calls....since I started to just say "please put me on your do not call list". I also told my wife to do the same. I was actually very polite saying (the truth) "Hey, we have a newborn at home, please put me on your do not call list and don't call again, thanks." That never had even a hint of a negative reaction and was never ignored.
Now, I can't even remember the last time I got a telemarketing call.
Really, I guess people don't understand that there already is a law demanding that they do not call people who say the 8 magic words. If they do, you can already sue them. Moreover, often the do not call lists will be shared among different front ends who use the same telemarketing back end.
One has to remember these are businesses. They need to make a profit, and they won't make a profit from people that just get annoyed with their calls. There's no sense in calling them.
Telemarketing is now to me a non-issue, as opposed to spam.
/* TAANSTAFL */
The rules are unclear from your point of view because you obviously have not Read The F---ing Manual . If they claim to be a charity/survey/politician and then they also try to sell you something, they are not exempt and are subject to prosecution.
You can't sue them just yet. The list just went into effect, and they have 30 days to comply once your number is added.
Actually, this technique works in Australia (where I live). It means you can chat to someone, hang up your phone, move to another phone, pick it up, and resume conversation. Great for cordless.
Perhaps it doesn't work in the US the same way. It's actually beneficial for the reasons I mentioned to have it work this way.
I'd love someone from Telstra to pipe up and confirm this in a post....
Visceral Psyche Films
You know what, you are right. Here's how it works if one party keeps an open line:
:)
If the CALLER hangs up, it stays hung up.
If the RECEIVER hangs up, he or she can pick up again and still remain connected to the existing call.
Bugger!
Oh well, on to Plan B - firing off the air horn into the phone mic. Perhaps some high intensity feedback will force them to abandon their chosen career as a professional annoyer....
Visceral Psyche Films