Nintendo To Launch New Machine Next Year?

EvilDonut writes "According to Bloomberg.com, Nintendo intends to launch a new machine in Japan next year, in order "to boost sales". There are no details as to wether the machine will be hand-held or not, but Bloomberg does describe it as a next-generation console. This is pretty odd, as Nintendo has previously stated that the GameCube successor wouldn't be out until 2005, and the GBA is doing so well that I can't imagine they'll replace it as early as next year. The article also mentions the Nintendo iQue, so it's pretty clear this is not just a mix-up regarding the new, China-only system." Update: 11/13 23:44 GMT by S : GameSpot has a very cryptic clarification from Nintendo, that "the new product will be a unique item that is different from any traditional machine", and will be "be [neither] a home console nor a portable machine."

Comments

iQue

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just the new, China-only system called the iQue. Nothing new to see here folks. Next!

Re:iQue

[h4mmer5tein]

Somebody didnt RTFA did they. The iQue was clearly mentioned in the article as _not_ being the same thing. iQue ships this month. The new console is planed for next year.

Re:iQue

[DavidLeblond]

How do you get iQue from "next-generation video game machine"? iQue is based on the LAST generation's technology, NOT the next.

And why would Nintendo release a system in Japan that they pretty much already released years and years ago?

Offtopic, I know, but... (Socre:-1, Offtopic)

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, how do you make the Windows key on the keyboard do something on KDE?

Re:Offtopic, I know, but... (Socre:-1, Offtopic)

[cerskine]

1. Remove Linux
2. Install Windows

Re:Offtopic, I know, but... (Socre:-1, Offtopic)

[Anonymous Coward]

3. PROFIT!

New system

[Lowen Na]

I think that Nintendo's new system will be both a "TV" console, and a portable

Re:New system

[swordboy]

Why don't they do it right - make a system-on-a-video-card and then create a Knoppix-like bootable layer for their games? This way, they'd have a piece of the PC, console and hand-held markets. If successful, they could license the PC boot layer to other hardware vendors and we'd have an easy-to-use alternative to Windows/DirectX.

Windows autorun was supposed to enable "console-like usability" but it hasn't even come close. Isn't it about time that someone took advantage?

Re:New system

[Haeleth]

Why don't they do it right - make a system-on-a-video-card and then create a Knoppix-like bootable layer for their games?

It's been done - the Creative Labs 3DO Blaster was a 3DO on an expansion card. It wasn't a success.

Re:New system

[Alan Partridge]

The don't do that because it would invite SERIOUS piracy, and starve the model of revenue. Imagine if the PS2 was available as a PCI card, and you just needed to pop you PS2 disk into your DVD drive and get playing... except that one of the primary anti-piracy measures used by the PS2 is it's INABILITY to read DVD-R and CD-R disks - using a standaqrd PC drive would circumvent this completely, and kids would start trading copied PS2 disks at school, just as happened with Amiga game disks.

Re:New system

[Dot.Com.CEO]

The PS2 can read CD-Rs and DVD-Rs fine. The xbox, or rather most versions of it, cannot read CD-Rs, but CD-RWs and DVD-R(W) are fine. The copy protection is akin to PC-based ones (faulty sectors or uncopiable faults on the disk surface that is checked by the OS/BIOS). The reason a PCI add-on is not the solution is that it would 1. dilute the market and prevent the creation of a proper brand (you're playing your games on a "PC") and 2. complicate troubleshooting and depart from the "instant on" console philosophy.

Re:New system

[PainKilleR-CE]

Not that I really support this sort of idea, but the bootable layer could load a proprietary DVD driver that disabled the ability to read writeable discs, as well as dealing with whatever other anti-piracy measures they'd have on the discs. Of course, eventually someone would probably figure out how to get around it.

This is pretty much the case with the PS2 anyway, as the drive is perfectly capable of reading DVD-R and CD-R discs, you just have to mod it to get it to work.

Re:New system

[muffen]

The xbox, or rather most versions of it, cannot read CD-Rs, but CD-RWs and DVD-R(W) are fine.

There are three drives I know of being used in xboxes, and they are Toshiba, Thompson and Samsung. It's the samsung that reads everything you throw at it, and the others have problems with CD-R's (RW's work fine). If I'm not mistaken, most new xboxes are using samsung drives now (atleast all v1,1 - v1,3 I opened up were using samsung).

The copy protection is akin to PC-based ones (faulty sectors or uncopiable faults on the disk surface that is checked by the OS/BIOS).

... as well as the entire disc being written "backwards" (hence the xiso format).

Re:New system

[Lumpy]

Or even worse....

that damned 3D abomination they made. Now in COLOR!

I shudder at the thought.

Re:New system

[darien]

Well, 3DO wasn't exactly a killer platform. OTOH, if I could get a GC on a card for my PC I wouldn't like to promise I wouldn't jump at it.

Re:New system

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you worry about that. Nintendo had the designer of the Virtual Boy killed. Gunpei Yokoi, designer of the Gameboy and the Virtual Boy, left Nintendo in shame, went to Bandai, made the Wonderswan, which was remarkably similiar to a Gameboy, and then died in a mysterious hit and run car accident outside Kyoto. He was hit by one car, got out to exchange info, and was hit by another, identical car.

Re:New system

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah, now that's what I call "doing it right!"

Idiot.

Re:New system

[NanoGator]

"It's been done - the Creative Labs 3DO Blaster was a 3DO on an expansion card. It wasn't a success."

It couldn't be a success. You had to have a VERY specific CD-ROM for it to work.

Re:New system

[WinnipegDragon]

3D0 not a killer platform? Clearly you never played Road Rash 3D0, Star Control 2, or SF 2 Turbo on it... I regret to this day ever selling my 3D0.

Re:New system

[Mikeytsi]

Wow, you just managed to mention the three good games that came out for the 3DO.

The 3DO, like the Jaguar, were DOA. Both had some promise, but were the fourth and fifth consoles in a two-console war. Besides, the signal/noise for shitty/good games was WAY too high.

Re:New system

[WinnipegDragon]

Hey, I agree that the great games were few, but it was worth it, to me, for those games alone (plus Samurai Showdown that I forgot to mention).

I still play Star Control 2 on an old DOS PC that I keep around for that specific purpose, but it doesn't approach the fun on the 3DO, and the voices man, the voices! Killer app indeed.

Enough nostalgia though... Back to your regularly scheduled flamewar.

first psot

[Anonymous Coward]

howdy hoes

Re:first psot

[terriblekarmanow tm]

You so fucking FAIL IT.

ho indeed.

Well

[beady]

2 Comments of the 3 were Intimating that the new console was the IQue. Not reading the article is something I have grown to expect, but not reading the blurb either?

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the article, and I still think the new console is the iQue. Read between the lines. There is no way Nintendo has a new console ready. No developers, no buzz ... this is Bloomberg reporting hints of rumours as fact.

Re:Well

[jimbolaya]

Actually, the article doesn't ever mention iQue by name. It is entirely conceivable, though perhaps unusual, that they will release the iQue in China this month, and in Japan next year. This is November. We're only talking two months here.

Re:Well

[billimad]

they were probably thrown off by the spelling mistake!

OMG GREASED YODA ON TEH SPOKE!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh GREASED YODA DOLL
My anus
For you, aches it does

So Which Is It?

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

One part says:
Nintendo intends to launch a new machine in Japan next year

Then the next part says:
So it's pretty clear this is not just a mix-up regarding the new, China-only system.

Re:So Which Is It?

[Anonymous Coward]

The iQue will only be sold in China. It will debut this month.

The new system that is the focus point of the article will (supposedy) debut in Japan next year.

Re:So Which Is It?

[BabyDave]

It's both -that's the point. The summary says that the "new machine in Japan" (which we know nothing about) is not the same thing as the "new, China-only system" (the iQue)

Re:So Which Is It?

[Anonymous Coward]

No no its ok...anywhere that is on the other side of the world of the US is pretty much all the same...No difference really, just some different sounding funny names...Japan China, Pakistan..

I am sure they all get the same news releases...

Re:So Which Is It?

[jimbolaya]

The summary is speculation, and could be wrong.

Re:So Which Is It?

[muffen]

One part says: Nintendo intends to launch a new machine in Japan next year Then the next part says: So it's pretty clear this is not just a mix-up regarding the new, China-only system.

It's both. iQue is currently China only (may be released in europe too, uncertain right now), and the nex-gen console (let's call it "gamecube2") is Japan first release.

The confustion is due to the story covering two consoles.

Re:So Which Is It?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you're really, _really_ stupid.

Re:So Which Is It?

[stonecypher]

How is this insightful? The Japan machine isn't the china machine, and this guy asks which is it?

Are the metamoderators asleep?

Re:So Which Is It?

[Mikeytsi]

Except for the fact that the next-gen console won't be comming out until 2005.

This isn't the replacement for the gamecube, it's something else.

Portables

[zoeblade]

Why don't they just stick to the Gameboy? They're good at that. They've pretty much cornered the retrogame market and the cute-and-fluffy-characters market.

Re:Portables

[PhoenixFlare]

Why don't they just stick to the Gameboy? They're good at that. They've pretty much cornered the retrogame market and the cute-and-fluffy-characters market.

I'd say because not everyone agrees on the "cute-and-fluffy-characters" and sometime "kiddy" angle to be a bad thing, most of the time. Blood, gore, and/or dark environments does not always a fun game make. As Gabe of Penny Arcade says, are you afraid playing a game with bright colors or cute characters in it will make you less of a person?

As long as they keep making games that're fun to go with them, Nintendo can go with a blessing and keep making consoles to the end of time.

Re:Portables

[zoeblade]

Just for the record, I didn't mean this as flamebate. I like retrogaming and cute characters, and you can't really beat the Gameboy for that (well, except for maybe MAME or real old games). I just think that's what they should focus on.

Why should they do this?

[Sir Haxalot]

Sales of the Gamecube have recently quadrupled, they should conentrate on releasing more quality games rather than making a new console. If they release one now it'll be about a year before the Xbox2 etc, reducing sales for Nintendo in the long run.

Re:Why should they do this?

[dthable]

The sales only increased after they dropped the price to $99. This is cutting into the profit margins on console sales (but those pesky games are still $50).

IGN ran interviews with key Nintendo executives and they're still pissed about being the last to market with the GameCube. Lots of talk about how this won't happen again. So, make a new console with extra power and features. If it's backward compatible, you still don't disrupt the current cash flow from games and have bragging rights over the PS3 and Xbox2.

Re:Why should they do this?

[Dot.Com.CEO]

How do you know it's "cutting into the profit margins"? Maybe the bill of materials dropped by a similar amount and their profit per machine sold is the same as before.

Re:Why should they do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they release one now it'll be about a year before the Xbox2 etc, reducing sales for Nintendo in the long run.

Just like the PS2 (released a year before XBox and GCN) has reduced long-run sales for Sony? I don't think so...

Re:Why should they do this?

[dthable]

Initial retail price was $200 and now the console sells for $99. I'm sure reducing the cost of the BOM helped with the price cuts, it's unlikely (not impossible) that they had to reduce the profit margin on the console.

Seeing how Nintendo was sitting on full warehouses, I'm sure reducing the cost freed up their working capital enough to offset the loss, but now they're locked into offering the console at $99. Over a longer development time, this is going to hurt profits more than help.

Re:Why should they do this?

[qlippoth]

On the other hand, you don't want to release your console too far ahead of the pack. Just look at the Dreamcast. I believe it came out a full year ahead of the PS2. It seems that skipping, or riding in between a generation may not be the best strategy.

P.S., I still love my Dreamcast.

Re:Why should they do this?

[dthable]

How true that is. Consoles are turning into the latest commodity market. IMHO, Nintendo should keep the GameBoy but ditch the console. With the Xbox and PS3 moving to IBM chips, it's turning into the same hardware. The key is going to be games and Nintendo has some killer titles.

Re:Why should they do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

They make the most money off software, if there are more gamecubes out, then there are more people (supposebly) buying games. They make a profit off the actual console, but that's not where most of it comes from.

You must be a genius.

Re:Why should they do this?

[PhoenixFlare]

The sales only increased after they dropped the price to $99. This is cutting into the profit margins on console sales (but those pesky games are still $50).

You do realize it used to be that the base bundle was $150 with a free $50 game, and now the base is $99 with no game? Think about that for a moment.

Re:Why should they do this?

[dthable]

The game didn't cost $50 to include in the bundle. Development costs for most software comes from a small fraction of the customers that purchase the software. Give away a decent game that will have enough consumers to offset development costs. Thus:

1) More hardware platforms have been sold.
2) The only costs include disc, packaging and distribution (Not even close to $50).

Re:Why should they do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

But surely no one buys a console without buying at least one game at the same time?

Re:Why should they do this?

[PhoenixFlare]

The game didn't cost $50 to include in the bundle.

So? The point is, by including a $50 game in with the system, that's $50 of the customer's money that you're not getting for that game, even if the disc itself costs a pittiance.

In contrast, with the $99 bundle, customers will most likely buy $50-100 worth of games when they buy the system...The shiny new Cube isn't much use without a game or two to actually use it with, right?

Personally, I bought the $150 bundle with a free game back in July, and got another $30 game along with it, with a couple more not long after.

Anyway, seems to come out about the same in the end...I wouldn't be suprised if they're actually making a bit more average profit per customer (because of game sales) at the $99 price point, though. I do know Nintendo is still forecasting a profit for the second half of the fiscal year, too.

Re:Why should they do this?

[Hott of the World]

or for 15 bucks a month you can rent games for it and not have to worry about late fees, ever.

Are you completely dense?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the Japanese machine.

It's NOT the Chinese machine.

HTH. HAND.

Re:OMG GREASED YODA ON TEH SPOKE!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

omg dooder u should totally get modded up as insightful cuz my anus aches too?!

Next-Gen console

[BESTouff]

Of course, the Pr states it's a nextgen console ! It's explicitely said it's there to boost sales, what do you believe ? That they'd call it "old technology, just rebadged console" ?

Re:Next-Gen console

[Afrosheen]

Well, after all, that's what the Gameboy Advance is. They could've made it a hell of alot better than they did, but it's really no better than a super nintendo. Actually the SNES is probably more powerful. Having 10 characters knocked out on screen while playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance will make the little bastard wheeze and puff.

So it's not like Nintendo has never rebadged old technology to reinforce their bottom line.

Re:Next-Gen console

[schtum]

Yeah, but playing SNES on an airplane is a bitch. Just try convincing the stewardess to hook you up to the AV system instead of playing the crappy in-flight movie.

By your logic, the original Gameboy was a step backward because it was less powerful than the NES.

Re:Next-Gen console

[Afrosheen]

Yeah, the original gameboy was total crap. That smeary calculator screen sucked, it ate batteries like crazy, and it was too expensive.

That doesn't mean it didn't do well, but hey, it's another opinion.

New console is a portable Ique

[Anonymous Coward]

Recently I read an article about the Ique. Basicly it is an n64 integrated into one chip. They also sais that this chip doesn't consume much power. Because of this I think their next generation console is in fact a next generation gameboy based on the ique.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Troed]

That was my guess too - but I'm leaning more towards the next Gameboy to be a Gamecube-on-a-chip. Notice the Sony PSP using 6cm 1.8Gb cds - notice the Gamecube using 6cm 1.6Gb cds. That's why the cube used them from the beginning - building up to the same hardware being used in a portable. Instant selection of great games at launch aswell.

The cube hardware is being sold (at a profit, most certainly) for $99. Expect Nintendo to be able to buy cheap displays - and off you go.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Anonymous Coward]

Have been thought about a portable gamecube before too but it is very unlikely at this stage. The power consumption of all gamecube parts is still to high two work for a long time on a battery. They now have such a compact n64 that they are likely going to use that one. I wouldn't be surprised if they hooked up a cdrom/dvd-rom to it and perhaps upgraded some other parts.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno. But the PowerPC basis for the GC is not very high-consuming... or at least, could be replaced with a much lower-power chip... and the ATI chipset (Flipper? I forget what it was called) is certainly last-gen by this point, and could be cleaned up into a low power part.

Now if they'd just give it, I dunno, a SDIO slot and a USB host controller, that'd be a pretty sweet toy. Games when you want games, hackable PowerPC portable with Linux or NetBSD when you're done playing.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[stonecypher]

That's why the cube used them from the beginning - building up to the same hardware being used in a portable.

Though this is certainly a nice after effect. actually, this is not why the GC uses small discs. At the time, there was quite a bit of hemming and hawwing about how N wasn't going to move to discs for the portable, but rather wait for something SD/MemoryStick-ish.

The reason Nintendo abstained from CDs was loading time. The management of Nintendo at the time believed that the increase in cost and decrease in game volume would be offset by the ten to twenty seconds that they at the time believed that games would require as loading time fairly frequently; apparently, they believed that a situation like Resident Evil's would be the norm, and I find it disappointingly common in early (and occasionally even modern) PlayStation games.

As things progressed and as Nintendo's error became apparent, they tried to prepare external CD drve after external CD drive, only to be met with fundamental price problems that came from supporting multiple storage formats. Nintendo saw the CD as an albatross, though, and it wasn't until Sega successfully pushed the GD that Nintendo began to believe that a proprietary format was realistic.

Once they did, however, the load time issue because their primary focus. In order to reduce both seek time and to increase disc resilience to high speed, they came to the decision that a minidisc format, which has significantly less angular momentum, would be the best way to go. Besides, it offered a very strong protection against piracy, as nobody could make their discs without specialized hardware.

I do hope that they carry the disc format to the new portable machine; that would allow enterprising developers to write cross-platform software, something that currently *none* of the portable manufacturers offer (and really, a game which was intended for portability but which offered editors and maintenance tools on the less cramed home system seems ideal to me.)

Whereas I hope this happens, I really don't think that was the original reasoning.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Ondo]

That's why the cube used them from the beginning - building up to the same hardware being used in a portable. Instant selection of great games at launch aswell.

I've thought about this, and I don't really think it's going to happen, ever. I don't think they'll want to make a portable with as many buttons and sticks as the GameCube controller. It's probably not an efficient use of space.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[truenoir]

I'd say that Nintendo has always used excuses like that to justify an ironclad grip on producing the games that run in its consoles. The hard drive model as executed in the XBox tends to be faster, and the Gamecube could certainly have been outfitted with a little more RAM for buffering if load time was really the concern (granted the super-compressed textures are condusive to fast loading...and lower data capacity). Agreed that Gamecube doesn't use small discs for potential portability, since they have no real protection from damage. It'd be trivial to release a caddy of some kind if they ever did. Somehow I doubt they would though (as nice as it would be) since Nintendo loves reselling you the same games for your portable system years later.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[dancingmad]

You say "most certainly" that the GC is being sold for a profit, but this is usually not the case: machines are often sold at a loss and the money made up on the software. Often, later in the console's life the manufacturer might begin to make a profit, as the cost of making the machine becomes lower than the price drops. However, this might not be the case with Nintendo, since the GC was third in most global markets compared to the Xbox.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Cryptnotic]

Nintendo was never that dumb. They always took the strategy of making the hardware as cheaply as possible. They then keep exclusive software titles and characters (e.g., Pokemon, Mario, Luigi, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Wave Race, Starfox, etc). It seems to work pretty well for them.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Troed]

Congratulations - you've fallen for a myth. The only console before the Xbox to have been sold at a loss was the Dreamcast.

By all means, Google.

(ps: The Gamecube is second worldwide - check the official figures from MS and Nintendo)

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[GnomeAttic]

Discs might be alright for portable cd players, but not for video game systems. Every time you hit a button or threw the system across the room, the game would skip.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[schtum]

That's funny, i don't even own a Gamecube, but I do own just such a caddy, which i got free at a promotional event thrown by Nintendo. It's round, only slightly wider than a game disc, less than two inches thick, with 24 pockets (12 double-sided sleeves). And it's Nintendo branded. Don't know if they're for sale, but here's a third-party solution which i'm sure works just as well.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, worldwide the 'cube is #2, but in the US the X-Box is #2.

That said, the X-Box is a VERY distant #2 (roughly 40% of PS2's installed base), and the 'cube is very close to X-Box at #3 (roughly 90% of X-Box).

Of course, half the problem with the X-Box is that console sales in Japan and Europe are all but nonexistant. The other half being most X-Box games are made by the third-rate developers that are only making X-Box games because Microsoft is paying them to do so. They have little skill or ability to make good ones, but their execs are chummy with wonks at MS.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[truenoir]

Obviously you've never used an early 90's CD-ROM, such as the kind that used caddys. I think the only things that do anymore are DVD-RAMs (sorta). You point out a CASE, a CADDY would be something that the disc stays in when in use.

Re:New console is a portable Ique

[Anonymous Coward]

The Saturn was also sold at a loss, and I've heard that the first batch of PS2s was sold at a loss due to problems on the production end.

Genesis release

[musikit]

Maybe they are doing what Sega did with the Genesis... I.E. they think if they get their system out before anyone else has their system out they can corner the system market.

Re:Genesis release

[Babbster]

Which, by the way, worked out quite nicely for Sega until they had Saturn development fall behind causing them to market upgrades (32x and SegaCD) to the Genesis that nobody wanted. The Genesis did VERY well and delayed real excitement about the SNES for solid interval (the fact that early SNES games didn't take full advantage of the system didn't help, either). If the Saturn had made it out a year earlier than it did, Sega might still be in the console business since the Dreamcast wouldn't have been the "make or break" situation that it was.

Re:Genesis release

[phaze3000]

The Genesis did very well, the Megadrive less so (Megadrive was the Japanese/EU name for the console). In fact, the Megadrive did very poorly in Japan - worse than the PC Engine in fact. By contrast the Saturn sold extremely well in Japan, but terribly everywhere else.

IMO the real reason the Genesis did so well in the US was all down to Madden. Part of the reason for the commerical failure of the Dreamcast was undoubtedly the lack of EA Sports titles.

Bringing the system out so quickly would mean that 3rd-party developers would have insufficient time to get release games ready, and I think after the N64 Nintedo has learnt that a system with only 1st and 2nd party games isn't going to be a commercial success. Personally I'd be very surprised to see a completely new Nintendo system launch next year anywhere, because without software to support it there would seem to be little incentive to buy.

Re:Genesis release

[Chazmyrr]

Bringing the system out so quickly would mean that 3rd-party developers would have insufficient time to get release games ready, and I think after the N64 Nintedo has learnt that a system with only 1st and 2nd party games isn't going to be a commercial success.

And what leads you to believe they learned anything from the N64? Seems to me that they repeated most of their mistakes with the Gamecube. 3rd party support for the Gamecube is still weak. How many third party games are exclusive to the Gamecube? The only ones that come to my mind are Resident Evil Zero and Crystal Chronicles and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that if Sony would release the PocketStation in the US that Crystal Chronicles wouldn't be a Gamecube exclusive.

The Gamecube was out for over a year before they had enough good games for me to justify buying one. I fully expect Nintendo to repeat themselves yet again with their next console.

Re:Genesis release

[phaze3000]

I've no idea why it took you a year from launch to buy a Gamecube - Super Monkey Ball alone was enough to make me want to get it, and Eternal Darkness, Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin are all great games. As it happens Super Monkey Ball is an excellent example of a third party exclusive.

The lack of third-party exclusives for the Gamecube is something one could say equally about the X-Box, and in many respects the PS2 too. With the console wars now split three ways and game production costs far higher than previously it's a pretty risky strategy to only target one console.

Re:Genesis release

[bigman2003]

Of course this is a good idea.

Nintendo may be selling well now, at $99. But if they got a one-year jump on the market, their next console could be the leader. And sell 60 million at $~200, rather than 9 million at $~120.

Re:Genesis release

[musikit]

if they are truely smart they wont make it cost $200 not without offing a free game and extra controller and all TV connects like they did with the original NES. now that game cube is $100 people are going to expect quailty products at a quality price.

i actually would tend to believe that soon the console scene will have to drop down to $100-150 for the console like in the 80s. consoles are just too exspensive and offer too little games on launch to expect people to pay $300 for a second rate game that was put on the shelf to sell the $300 console.

IMHO anyway

Re:Genesis release

[Neillparatzo]

(the fact that early SNES games didn't take full advantage of the system didn't help, either)

What? There was nothing even remotely like F-Zero when it came out. And Castlevania 4 pushed the SNES hardware harder than almost anything else. Sure the Genesis had a faster CPU, but the SNES had more power where it counted: With all the wacky video shit it could do. There was no shortage of games taking advantage of that.

Re:Genesis release

[Anonymous Coward]

IMO the real reason the Genesis did so well in the US was all down to Madden.

That probably contributed, but I would have said "the uncensored version of Mortal Kombat". The SNES version turned the blood gray and called it sweat, and shied away from the gorier fatalities. But the Genesis version, with help from a DULLARD, let you do just about everything from the arcade version.

Part of the reason for the commerical failure of the Dreamcast was undoubtedly the lack of EA Sports titles.

It didn't help, that's for sure, but our store had a LOT of customers that preferred the NFL2K_ series on the Dreamcast to the Madden series on the other consoles. I would have said that the big reasons for the commercial failure of the Dreamcast would be 1) public perception: the "won't get fooled again" crowd still stinging from the Saturn (and 32X, and SegaCD), 2) FUD from Sony about the PS2, and 3) Sega themselves.

And I can't really qualify this opinion, but I'm almost positive that Dreamcast would still be considered a valid console even today if they had released Half Life as planned.

Lemonade without the Lemons!

[mrshowtime]

Releasing a new game system would be a smart and bold move for Nintendo, but what about the games? If this new system even "just" offers quality comparable to today's ATI videocards (which it would have to have if it were to go into production for next year), why bother? Nintendo just needs to swallow their pride and just start making games for all of the systems. Sega did it and is no longer fighting bankruptcy. Let some other sucker pony up the money for builing the home systems. Technology is getting to the point where it has actually overtaken the ancient NTSC television. I play my Xbox in 480p "HD" mode on my HDTV for the few games that support it and it's fucking great! It pains to play in the lower "t.v." resolution. Since most people have regular "crappy" t.v.s it really does not make any sense to upgrade to a more powerful game system unless the games are there. Nintendo's strong arm tactics are finally nipping (no racist pun intended) it in it's ass. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the gamecube and I have had a lot of fun with it, but it has what, a smattering of games at best? All in all, I doubt anyone will be able to stop Sony at this point. Sony has spent Billion(s) of Dollars on R and D for the PS3 and whereas Micro$oft could actually outspend Sony on R and D, you know they won't, or if they do, they will create something less than inspired, like the Xbox. Once again, I like my Xbox, but really, it's just an 800mhz p.c. with an aging Geforce card in it. Sigh....

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[PainKilleR-CE]

Releasing a new game system would be a smart and bold move for Nintendo, but what about the games?

New systems mean new games, but of course it remains to be seen what this system is, and up until now they had simply been saying they'll make an announcement in 2004, not that they'd actually have a system in 2004 (though that could be the announcement). Of course, if the system comes out late in 2004 in Japan, it could be well into 2005 before it hits the US.

If this new system even "just" offers quality comparable to today's ATI videocards (which it would have to have if it were to go into production for next year), why bother?

More than likely, any video chipset used for a new console would be fairly comparable to video cards that come out around the same time as the console, or slightly afterwards, rather than today. Of course, that's just assuming that it would be anything like the XBox with nVidia's graphics chips.

Nintendo just needs to swallow their pride and just start making games for all of the systems. Sega did it and is no longer fighting bankruptcy. Let some other sucker pony up the money for builing the home systems.

The big difference, though, is that Nintendo is not fighting bankruptcy, while Sega was losing money left and right before they gave up.

Technology is getting to the point where it has actually overtaken the ancient NTSC television. I play my Xbox in 480p "HD" mode on my HDTV for the few games that support it and it's fucking great! It pains to play in the lower "t.v." resolution. Since most people have regular "crappy" t.v.s it really does not make any sense to upgrade to a more powerful game system unless the games are there.

None of this makes much sense when the Cube already does 480p. It's more like you're typing to hear the keys click.

Nintendo's strong arm tactics are finally nipping (no racist pun intended) it in it's ass. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the gamecube and I have had a lot of fun with it, but it has what, a smattering of games at best?

Perhaps. Then again, with the smaller number of games and the high percentage of quality games, it's easier to pick a random game off the shelf and be satisfied with the purchase.

All in all, I doubt anyone will be able to stop Sony at this point. Sony has spent Billion(s) of Dollars on R and D for the PS3 and whereas Micro$oft could actually outspend Sony on R and D, you know they won't, or if they do, they will create something less than inspired, like the Xbox. Once again, I like my Xbox, but really, it's just an 800mhz p.c. with an aging Geforce card in it. Sigh....

No one thought Nintendo could be beat after they overtook the market from Sega back when they released the SNES (and before the Genesis took the market because the SNES came out so much later). As for the XBox, try looking at the system requirements for games some day, and consider the overhead of the OS itself, and try to figure out how many games actually require what the XBox has. The difference between a PC and an XBox doesn't come in the packaging, it comes in the developers' ability to know what the end-user has and build for it, rather than building for a lowest-common-denominator and testing 100s of combinations of hardware. Sony's had their 2 consoles, but the real question is whether or not developers will be as ready to move from them as they were to move to them if they see a better system. Additionally, I think it's rather sad that most of the PS2 ads I've seen lately have actually been for 2 or 3-platform titles, but don't mention that fact because they're Sony ads.

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes GC does 480p, but GC is still FAR FAR behind PS2/XBOX for ONLINE GAMING. More and more people are into ONLINE GAMING. GC's online gaming is too pathetic to even consider it a rival of PS2/XBOX. Hell even Dreamcast's online capability (Unreal Tournament) is better than GC.

If a new console for Nintendo means real online gaming on par with PS2/XBOX, I am all for it.

But with that said, I think if they just put money into making GC an ONLINE GAMING console, they can actually compete with XBOX/PS2...until then, I'll be playing Ghost Recon and Crimson Skies on XBOX LIVE and Socom 2 and Madden 2004 on PS2 ONLINE...no way do I buy a GC version of a game that is online on another console...

Could you imagine Mario Party being an ONLINE game? Mario Kart? The possibilities are endless, but NO, Nintendo KNOWS GC is for kids and THAT'S WHY they have NO interest in making GC an online gaming console, because kids don't make enough from their allowance to get a cable modem/dsl...Nintendo blows...

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mario Kart will be playable online. Nintendo has licensed (to Gamespy?) the production of a game browser/tunneling app.

I respect Nintendo for producing a network adapter, then stepping back and letting the third parties create game offerings for it. Unfortunately, the developers aren't producing the games, but that should come as no shock since third party support for the Gamecube has been poor.

It's easy to say "Nintendo blows", but you must realize that your opinions don't reflect the opinion of every gamer. Not everyone wants a hard drive. Not everyone wants online play. Many people love Nintendo and the things they offer, certainly enough people to keep them profitable despite the ubiquitous doom and gloom predictions. Someone above compared Nintendo to Apple, and it's a good comparison. Just because you don't "get it", doesn't mean Nintendo is worthless. When you grow up, you'll realize that.

-AC

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[PainKilleR-CE]

Yes GC does 480p, but GC is still FAR FAR behind PS2/XBOX for ONLINE GAMING. More and more people are into ONLINE GAMING. GC's online gaming is too pathetic to even consider it a rival of PS2/XBOX. Hell even Dreamcast's online capability (Unreal Tournament) is better than GC.

You're confusing online capability with online games, as evidenced by your inclusion of UT in parens after mention of the Dreamcast rather than mentioning that the Dreamcast came with a 56K modem installed (and could be upgraded to a broadband adapter if you could find the thing). The capability of the GC for online gaming is on par with the PS2. The games available is the problem.

If a new console for Nintendo means real online gaming on par with PS2/XBOX, I am all for it.

But with that said, I think if they just put money into making GC an ONLINE GAMING console, they can actually compete with XBOX/PS2...until then, I'll be playing Ghost Recon and Crimson Skies on XBOX LIVE and Socom 2 and Madden 2004 on PS2 ONLINE...no way do I buy a GC version of a game that is online on another console...

Two of the games you mentioned are 3rd party games. Why don't you ask the people that developed Ghost Recon and Madden 2004 why those games aren't online on the GC? Because the online adapter doesn't come with the console? Neither does the adapter for the PS2. Because they don't have a 'Live'-style service? Neither does the PS2, and MS is losing money on it. Because Nintendo isn't using it themselves and they aren't hyping it? Neither did Sony until they decided to do an EQ game on the PS2 (subscription revenue is sweet when you already have the infrastructure). What GC needs to become an online console is an exclusive title that people actually play online. Right now Nintendo doesn't see a reason to do it themselves and isn't willing to give incentives to other developers to do it, either.

Could you imagine Mario Party being an ONLINE game? Mario Kart?

Mario Kart I could imagine as working quite well, though my best memories of the series are always going to be playing on the SNES with my friends in the same room. Mario Party doesn't seem like it'd be nearly as interesting online, as most of the minigames are about the interaction between the players. Then again, Mario Kart may very well be online, as it's LAN capable and there's been a lot of talk about the GameSpy tunnelling software that Nintendo contracted.

The possibilities are endless, but NO, Nintendo KNOWS GC is for kids and THAT'S WHY they have NO interest in making GC an online gaming console, because kids don't make enough from their allowance to get a cable modem/dsl...Nintendo blows...

Right... Which is why my youngest step-brother was the first person I knew to put his console online (though of course I had to help my parents set things up to share the cable modem). I wouldn't be surprised if my gf's 10-year-old brother put his PS2 online this XMas since he's been playing Madden 2004 so much and most of his friends have it as well. That's what people don't seem to get, the games that sell the best on the PS2 are appealing just as much to the kids everyone says Nintendo's marketing after as to the teenagers and the 20-somethings. Sony would not have a piece of the console market if they hadn't realized one simple thing: teenagers are more afraid of what other people think of them than they are interested in actually having fun. A large number of the people playing those games online on the XBox and the PS2, just like PC games, are not the people footing the bill for those consoles (and PCs) and for them to be online.

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[TimboJones]

Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Viewtiful Joe, Hitman 2... definitely kid's games.

My mother has way more fun playing Animal Crossing on her recently-purchased GC than my kid sister. Me, I like to settle down with a beer and a pipe with all the lights out while my rooomates are at the bar and creep myself out with Eternal Darkness. The last 2 weeks have been 4-player Super Monkey Ball minigame fests with my friends and roommates (and even a roommate's boss!)

Just because you're too afraid to been seen as playing a 'kid's console' doesn't ruin the fun for us adults.

Re:Lemonade without the Lemons!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not afraid to play a kids console, I just want games that are ONLINE on XBOX and/or PS2 to be online on the GameCube...I like hockey, it's ONLINE on XBOX, how about GC? Nope.

I like football, online on XBOX and PS2...GC? No

Baseball? XBOX, soon to be PS2, GC? No

RPG? Yes, GC has phantasy star...big deal...one game does not make an ONLINE GAMING console.

I can't put all the blame on 3rd parties because:
1.) Nintendo should be pushing companies like EA to make Madden '04 online on GC...they don't because nobody has the adapter for Nintendo because Nintendo really messed up when it comes to online gaming.

2.) Nintendo is not developing it's own ONLINE games (a la Microsoft with NFL Fever and Inside Pitch) to make up for games that are NOT online...at least MSFT is trying to please it's XBOX customers since EA wants no part of "Live"...what is Nintendo doing? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Why should I throw down 99 bucks for a GC when all the games I want to play for it are NOT online and Nintendo is not making a good chunk of their 1st party games online...if I want to play Phantasy Star online, I'll just use the XBOX thank you very much...

next year

[__aahlyu4518]

New console was not to be expected till 2005 ? ... So... If they release this thing december next year... Then what is all the fuzz about... 1 month ???

Re:next year

[grungebox]

Consoles are not generally released in January. It is not a high sales month. Gamecube, XBox, PS2, and I think even the N64 were all fall releases, in anticipation of the holiday rush. The PS2 was released in October, which is a little early for the November shopping extravaganza, but it also had the unique position of being the first of the next-gen consoles to be released, and hype is a company's best friend. So, to answer your question, it's more like 10 months, not 1.

Re:next year

[Anonymous Coward]

The State Of KDE

We've seen a lot of important news regarding the KDE project over recent week, so it's worth pausing to consider the ramifications.

Let's start with the recent acquisition of SUSE by Novell. SUSE was the biggest Linux distributor (though still dwarfed by Red Hat) to use KDE as its default desktop. SUSE has, for many years, neglected to package the GNOME desktop properly or even do basic Q&A... much to the delight of KDE fanatics. Now, however, Novell has purchased the SUSE linux distribution and Ximian a company best known for the producing the most polished and professional version of the GNOME desktop. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from this is that KDE is about to lose its main commercial support.

Let's take a look at some of the reasons why this is so:

• GNOME has always been the commerical desktop of choice. It has long been focussed on getting the basics right... as opposed to KDE, which is almost entirely aimed at pleasing the slashdot peanut gallery with pointless eye-candy. KDE features are thrown into the mix with little or no regard for usability, or good taste for that matter. The end result, as I will show later, is disasterous.
• KDE is extremely expensive to develop for, unless you intend to produce GPL software alone. TrollTech, the owners of KDE and Qt, license the X11 version of their Qt toolkit under the GPL. This forces anyone wanting to develop software built on top of it (including KDE), to be (L)GPL licensed -- or pay TrollTech $3000 for every developer you have working on the application.
• TrollTech is also vulnerable to takeover by companies hostile to Free software and good corporate lawyers who can blow holes in the laughable FreeQt agreements.
• Qt's/KDE lack of accessiblity. GNOME has spent the last 18 months (at least) developing and polishing the accessiblity of the GNOME desktop (thanks to the fine work of Sun engineers). KDE has spent the time making *fake* translucent menus. A10y is vital, a desktop cannot be sold to the U.S. government unless it supports features necessary for disable users to make full use of it. Expect increasing numbers of paniced announcements of weak a10y support from the KDE project, as the full extent of their folly and true gap to GNOME finally becomes obvious to them.
• Novell is already engaged in training its engineers in development using GTK/GNOME -- not Qt/KDE.
• Nat Friedman (co-founder of Ximian), recently made a post to slashdot explaining the take-over and future directions. Much has been made of Novell's claims that it will continue to "support" KDE, but this is merely as legacy software. As Nat's post makes clear, the future of Novell is GNOME and the push for a single dominant desktop.
• Many desperate and ignorant (ie, most of them) KDE advocates are clinging to the idea that Novell will run KDE with Ximian/GNOME's superior software like Evolution. Little do they realise that running Evolution is running GNOME. Evolution is deeply integrated into GNOME... running a KDE desktop with Evolution is the height of stupidity and only added to the extraordinary bloat and sloth assocated with KDE. Why would a company maintain, develop and test two different code bases? They wouldn't... hence the reason why KDE dead at SUSE.

The writing is on the wall. SUSE was purchased as a solid Linux server base (but only because Novell could not afford Red Hat), and Ximian was purchased to provide the desktop expertise and its impressive catalogue of GNOME applications (not to mention Mono). Much has been made about SUSE's "configuration" tools being KDE-integrated. Not only is this not true (they are QT, all it needs is the Qt library not the mega-bloat of KDE), but we are talking about simple GUI front-ends talking to the grunt-work backends which are not associated with the KDE desktop. Rewriting th

Re:next year

[LeoDV]

Most consoles are released towards the end of the year to cash in on the holiday seasons. So if they release this thing december next year, the fuzz is more about 10 months.

Re:next year

[Cooper_007]

What you probably don't want to do is hype the next system when people are still actively buying your current system, because you run the risk that these customers will then choose to wait for this new, better version.

I can't remember who it was (but I'm sure someone will point it out to me) but he ran a successful hardware company, and just as sales were picking up he announced that the next version would be twice as fast or some such. Everybody then waited for the next version, and due to the dried up sales there wasn't enough income to finish building the thing. Company went bust over it.

If anything, I think you can just call this one of those advanced rumors to make sure the market knows they're not sitting on their laurels.

Cooper
--
I don't need a pass to pass this pass!
- Groo The Wanderer -

Re:next year

[Troed]

Psion. Series 5mx over Series 5. I'm sure there are others. They didn't go bust but almost, they haven't been the same since. They were very famous for NOT divulging any info whatsoever on new products just because of this fenomenon.

Re:next year

[Alan Partridge]

fenomenon?

Get a fucking dictionary already!

Re:next year

[Alan Partridge]

Actually, I'll take that back as it seems you might be Swedish.

And I'll bet my Swedish is a LOT worse than your English.

Re:next year

[nearlygod]

The Osbourne Fiasco.

Re:next year

[Nexum]

Osborne computers.

Re:next year

[byolinux]

Back of the net!

Re:next year

[PainKilleR-CE]

The PS2 was released in October, which is a little early for the November shopping extravaganza, but it also had the unique position of being the first of the next-gen consoles to be released, and hype is a company's best friend.

Just a minor correction, the Dreamcast was released in September the year before, and is definitely part of the current generation despite it's support being cut off very early. Sony built up the PS2 hype and released the redesigned PSOne around the same time to counter (successfully) the DC's early launch, and I'd expect the same thing to happen again if Nintendo or MS come along with their next-gen console much earlier than the PS3. Sony also had significant supply problems with the PS2 launch, meaning that for many people they weren't available until as much as 6 months after the launch.

So, to answer your question, it's more like 10 months, not 1.

Given the typical 6+ month difference in console releases between Japan and the US (at least for Japanese console manufacturers, though the Cube was 3 months), I wouldn't be surprised to see a release in mid-2004 with a US release in the Fall, though this soon I would expect it to be a handheld rather than a home system (with a home system released in Japan in possibly early 2005 and the US again around the fall). Unfortunately, it's at least as unusual for Nintendo to release a new handheld so soon as it is to release a new home console so soon, so it's really hard to say for sure what they're doing until they make an official announcement.

Re:next year

[FatherOfONe]

Is your math correct?

If it was released in Nov of 2004 that would only be 2 months before 2005, wouldn't it?

Or if it was released in Oct of 2004 that would only be 3 months before 2005.

Re:next year

[proj_2501]

pedantic note regarding your sig!

Re:next year

[The Briguy]

If you look at most console releases, they are October/November in the US and Feburary/March in Japan. PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox all got march releases in Japan (2000, 2001, 2002)

what?

[fuckfuck101]

GBA doing well? What the hell is this guy basing that on?

IQue?

[Richard Allen]

The article mentions the IQue (separately)?
Are you sure?

creators' launch newclear power plan this year?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's right, the dead reckoning is well under way. this stuff is unbreakable, wwworks on several (more than 3) dimensions, & includes a virtual 'console' that can be operated from anywhere in the universe.

if you are won of the felonious perpetraitors of the life0cide being waged against the creators' innocents, you best get ready to see the light.

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get ready to see the light.

J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

the recipe is:

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. vote with yOUR wallet. more breathing. seek others of non-agressive intentions/behaviours. that's the spirit.

use key words/indexing to identify yourself/your products.

the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the power that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you CAN bet your .asp on that won. as the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any other pretense is totally false.

pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about yOUR motives.

As I thought

[jonathan_the_ninja]

That's what I thought would happen, what with the Gamecube price drop. I hope this next one can play DVDs, etc.

Re:As I thought

[PhoenixFlare]

Why does the next one have to play DVDs? I don't know about you specifically, but myself and everyone I know already has a perfectly good stand-alone DVD player....

There's no reason for DVD on a game console to be a selling point, especially not with how cheap the regular players are these days.

Re:As I thought

[hyphz]

And Japan has had a DVD-playing Gamecube - the Panasonic Q - for ages now.

Re:As I thought

[naktekh]

Thank you. I'm glad someone else agrees with my view on this... a game console should concentrate on good games, not a whole bunch of features that detract from gaming performance in the long run.

Re:As I thought

[purrpurrpussy]

There is one reason - the environmental impact of producing and then purchasing multiple boxes is clearly higher than using a single box.... It's more landfill and more resources....

However - it still doesn't fix the problem of what happens when I want to play F-Zero X and the other half wants to watch Pride and Prejudice AGAIN!!!

Re:As I thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, two of my other consoles already play DVDs (4 if you count my laptop and desktop). I don't need a DVD player either.

Re:As I thought

[antin]

Except that is one of the first thing everyone gripes about... it has to play DVDs because the mass market want that. Even if they won't actually use it they can say "wow, free dvd playback".

To tell another story, one of my friends actually has 3 xboxes in his house, one for each brother. My friend has a standalone DVD player and so bought the xbox for games, however the other two brothers got it for the DVD playback and games were a bonus. So out of the 5 people I know with xboxes, 2 of them got them for the playback - bad sample group I know, but they have to count for something.

Re:As I thought

[Psychotext]

There are plenty of parents out there without enough money to get their kid a dvd player and a console.

Obviously at that point the smart money gets put on the multifunction device which gives the child the best of both worlds (and in a single box which fits happily in even the smallest bedroom.).

Re:As I thought

[Haeleth]

However - it still doesn't fix the problem of what happens when I want to play F-Zero X and the other half wants to watch Pride and Prejudice AGAIN!!!

Buy her the book. It's better than the film anyway.

Re:As I thought

[ianscot]

Here's hoping you're talking about the excellent seems-to-take-weeks BBC production of P&P... and that you couldn't possibly play F-Zero X for eight hours, or whatever it takes.

Jennifer Ehle smiles sooooo winsomely...

Re:As I thought

[jasontwarnock]

The Xbox is too large for the smallest bedroom.

(Not a troll, just a joke)

Re:As I thought

[zerocool^]

Heh, thank god for playstation2. My standalone DVD player is great, it has digital and componant out and lots of good features, but it doesn't play DVD-R (or DVD+r for that matter), whereas the PS2 does.

Re:As I thought

[PainKilleR-CE]

However - it still doesn't fix the problem of what happens when I want to play F-Zero X and the other half wants to watch Pride and Prejudice AGAIN!!!

That's what the GC price drop is for, assuming you have another TV. Then again, I told my gf I was buying it both for the bedroom and the Zelda bundle.

Re:As I thought

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope this next one can play DVDs, etc.


Why?? you ca nget a BETTER dvd player for less than the price of one game.

Hell by then you should be able to get a portable DVD player with screen for the price of 2 games.

Why anyone today would WANT their game system to play DVD's is beyond me. DVD players are DIRT CHEAP! BUY ONE!

Re:As I thought

[Geek of Tech]

This gaming console not only plays games, but it lets you browse the internet, rip mp3s, play dvds, burn cds, run microsoft office (or open office), record your favorite tv shows, let you talk to friends via VoIP, and even run down a dumbed down version of __INSERT OS HERE__!

I call it the computer. I'll sell it to you now, if you have $699 licencing fee for SCO...

Re:As I thought

[Eccles]

Why does the next one have to play DVDs? I don't know about you specifically, but myself and everyone I know already has a perfectly good stand-alone DVD player....

But devices such as TVs don't have an infinite number of inputs. Many just have two independent sources: a coaxial connection (for Cable) and an RCA connection. So in that case the single device is better.

Perhaps this new device is an enhanced GameCube, with the ability to play full DVDs (and even have games with a full DVD worth of data) and 720P support, but otherwise the same API or a superset thereof, so developers don't need to do much different at the moment.

Nintendo's real failure with the GameCube was not having a Pokemon title at or near launch. Now the Pokemon phenomenon has faded, it's not such an issue, but people would have bought the console just for a GameCube game like Pokemon Gold/Sapphire/etc.

Re:As I thought

[PhoenixFlare]

But devices such as TVs don't have an infinite number of inputs. Many just have two independent sources: a coaxial connection (for Cable) and an RCA connection. So in that case the single device is better

Does it really take that long to swap out a set of RCA input cables? If you can seriously say that it does, then maybe you have a point, but otherwise i'm not really sure.

Perhaps this new device is an enhanced GameCube, with the ability to play full DVDs (and even have games with a full DVD worth of data) and 720P support, but otherwise the same API or a superset thereof, so developers don't need to do much different at the moment.

Except for the DVD games thing, this already exists, and it's called the Panasonic Q, a version of the Gamecube that can play regular-size DVD movie discs. Quite expensive at the moment, though.

Nintendo's real failure with the GameCube was not having a Pokemon title at or near launch. Now the Pokemon phenomenon has faded, it's not such an issue, but people would have bought the console just for a GameCube game like Pokemon Gold/Sapphire/etc.

I think it was more a failure not to have a Zelda or Mario title available for launch...A mistake that I don't think will be repeated.

Re:As I thought

[monkey_jam]

..because its sooooo much of a bother having to play my dvd's in a dvd player

I never saw the point of bundling dvd players in consoles...

Re:As I thought

[Eccles]

Does it really take that long to swap out a set of RCA input cables?

Depending on your set-up, the connectors may be hard to access. If you have a 25"+ TV in a cabinet, for example, you may have to move the cabinet just to get the cables. Front panel jacks are a lot easier, but require more visible cables and many people are still using TVs that don't have them. Also, my 6-year-old definitely couldn't do it, whereas she could press the video/TV button on a remote and she can put in a DVD.

Except for the DVD games thing, this already exists, and it's called the Panasonic Q

It's mind-bogglingly expensive for what it does relative to a standard 'Cube. Maybe Nintendo had a contract with Panasonic that has terminated, and now allows Nintendo to build their own DVD player version.

You could also conceivably "theme" a DVD player. What it displays when no disc is playing, or how it handles long pauses, could be done with a Mario or Zelda theme -- no normal player could do that.

I think it was more a failure not to have a Zelda or Mario title available for launch...

They did have Luigi's Mansion, and the Wind Waker has at least been out for a while. Pokemon clearly was going to fade before too long, as it now has.

Re:As I thought

[Overly Critical Guy]

Heaven forbid that a gaming system that will presumably use standard DVD format actually be able to play standard movies in that format.

That's apparently "a whole bunch of features that detract from gaming performance in the long run." You know, since playing a DVD movie casts the magic Degrade Game Performance spell whenever you insert Mario Sunshine 2.

Re:As I thought

[bigman2003]

I'm glad you mentioned the number of inputs on a typical TV.

I have a standalone DVD player, and I own an Xbox. I haven't used the standalone player in about a year- why would I screw around with the cables?

Someone else mentioned that it doesn't take long to switch the cables. True- but it takes even less time NOT to switch the cables.

Re:As I thought

[NanoGator]

"That's what I thought would happen, what with the Gamecube price drop. I hope this next one can play DVDs, etc."

I just paid $40 for a DVD player at Walmart. If my next game console plays DVDs, I'd be surprised if I ever used it.

Re:As I thought

[Rude Turnip]

Switches cables? Haven't you people ever heard of a switch box? Here comes the science...All your devices A/V outputs go into your switchbox and your switchbox gets plugged into the A/V input on your TV. Then you just press a button on your switchbox that corresponds with the device you want to use and that device's A/V signals go into your TV? I have TiVo, PS2, Dreamcast and a VCR going into one box that plugs into my TV's only A/V port.

Re:As I thought

[The_dev0]

Heaven forbid that a gaming system that will presumably use standard DVD format actually be able to play standard movies in that format.

Erm, What makes you think the next console will utilise a TANDARD DVD format? The gamecube uses DVD's, but they are not standard and cannot play DVD movies, so what makes you think they will change their view? Also, as far as I know, neither of the other consoles play DVD's out of the box either, they both need attachments that must be purchased seperately. Do you actually read the things you write, or is it just your brain running out your nose onto the keyboard?

Re:As I thought

[naktekh]

The thing about why Nintendo never included DVD playback was because of one thing - they do games, and they do them well. They know games better than they do DVD support or anything like that, whereas Sony and Microsoft have experience in those arenas, so their systems are able to offer that kind of feature to people who buy them. Personally, I wouldn't want a Nintendo branded DVD playback device, because I know that's not what they do best.

Re:As I thought

[naktekh]

Actually, the PS2 can play DVDs out of the box, while the XBox requires an addon for DVD playback. I don't know if that's changed in later revisions of the XBox, but I highly doubt it since the DVD kits are still being offered for sale.

Re:As I thought

[Eccles]

But then you still have to get up!

It reminds me of a Consumer Reports review of a voice-activated remote control and a letter responding to said review. The CR report said that it didn't seem as effective as the old-fashioned technique of pressing buttons on the remote. The letter writer wrote that he didn't think he was that old, but he thought the old-fashioned way of changing channels, etc. was actually getting up and turning knobs on the set...

I don't think this is news.......

[TomHandy]

Nintendo had previously said at E3 this year that they are working on a new machine for next year, but they also made it pretty clear it was something they wouldn't classify either as a console or handheld. I think that is what this article is really about, and therefore isn't really news. But it seems that Nintendo has already made it clear that whatever this new machine is, it is something they consider to be a new type of device that they wouldn't classify as anything like a GameCube or GBA successor.

-Tom

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[Haeleth]

...whatever this new machine is, it is something they consider to be a new type of device that they wouldn't classify as anything like a GameCube or GBA successor.

Unfortunately for the world, that leaves only one option - it must be Virtual Boy II!

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[ToKsUri]

This fits nicely to the idea that it might actually be a "handheld Ique" (however you spell that). An Ique with a little LCD screen might be a handheld powerful enough to actually connect it to a Screen and have a full-sized screen console when you want it. This could be nice, if I didn't have already my N64 somewhere in a box and were a few years younger.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[pizen]

Unfortunately for the world, that leaves only one option - it must be Virtual Boy II!

The horror! The horror!

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[Alan Partridge]

Ahh... you must mean Virtual Girl!

I've been looking forward to THAT product since I was about 10.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[cowscows]

It's obviously a "carsole", a wonderful gaming system that straps across the steering wheel of your automobile, putting a screen right in front of you, and control buttons all along the wheel itself. No more will the morning commute be a boring waste of an hour and a half, now you can spend it collecting more pokemons while yelling at the guy that just cut you off. Better yet, when a Mario Kart game comes out for it, it will actually be connected to the steering and pedals of your car, for the ultimate in realistic driving simulation!

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[pavon]

Unfortunately for the world, that leaves only one option - it must be Virtual Boy II!

Just the thought of it leaves me seeing red.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[poot_rootbeer]

Unfortunately for the world, that leaves only one option - it must be Virtual Boy II!

Ahem... Virtual Boy Advance.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[stonecypher]

Heh. At least it's not WorkBoy 2.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[NanoGator]

" but they also made it pretty clear it was something they wouldn't classify either as a console or handheld."

You could almost describe the GameCube that way. It's easy to pick up and move around the house to other rooms, but it needs to be stationary to be played.

Hmm... Updated GameCube with a built in screen? How cool would that be for mulitplayer? Bring two units side by side and network them, and no more dreaded splitscreen. Bonus points if they can do it without having to buy multiple copies of a game.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[HoppQ]

Unfortunately for the world, that leaves only one option - it must be Virtual Boy II!

I've actually thought for some time now that Nintendo may be coming up with something equally crazy to sink some money in (remember, Nintendo don't have a shortage of cash, every console of theirs except that Virtual Boy was profitable) and try to "innovate" to get some new market share. What follows is my idea of what they might be up to.

So what I've been having in mind is a dedicated portable real 3D gaming machine using an autostereo display that doesn't need 3D glasses at all. They now have the N64 hardware in nearly portable size (iQue), so all they need to do is trim it for some more speed and less size to be perfectly acceptable for a next-gen portable gaming system. The current GBA can already play compressed video (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories coming from Square Enix is using it) so the new console could obviously do it, in real 3D no less! And if it can do compressed video it pretty obviously can handle compressed audio, and in real 3D no less! (just kidding, just kidding, although I am going to mention that surround audio can be produced using just standard stereo headphones as output, so you could theoretically enjoy movies on the go with this thing in real 3d visuals and a surround sound experience). Not that I really care that much about movie and music playback in my gaming machine, but some of you do, so the new device could easily have it.

The only things to solve are the media to use and battery life. Nintendo probably would like to stick to their current cartridge format since using spinning disks create problems in portable environments, but they might be bold and use their Gamecube mini-dvd format for it, since a mini-dvd has more than enough space for a portable device with low resolution. With cheapening manufacturing costs the cartridge capacities could also be increased a lot while keeping the price down, obviously not to mini-dvd levels but for a low resolution device it could be sufficient even for 3D gaming and compressed video.

The battery life is trickier, especially if there is disk that needs to be spun. So Nintendo will solve it by having some very serious problem with the device that the consumers just have to deal with a couple of years before the new model the fixes the problem arrives. They had the dark screens for the GBA but I think they'll have a new problem for this new device, maybe if it uses a disk format the device doesn't have a motor to spin the disk but instead there's a hand crank the user spins when the device needs to load the next level or next movie portion from the disk.

(Yes, I am joking again. Don't shoot me.)

So there you have it. By now you should have a fair impression that I am completely INSANE, but remember, so is Nintendo when they're at their best (well, not COMPLETELY insane), and being a loyal Nintendo fan I hope they'll be at their best the following years.

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[MoronGames]

Now with Advanced Seizure Technology and Migraine 2.0?

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[The_dev0]

Maybe they are going full circle and releasing mario themed playing cards....

Re:I don't think this is news.......

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo's accountants also see red at the thought of Virtual Boy.

TEH TWIN SNAKES!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mei Ling: Snake, in China they say don't kill mosquito with cannon.
Snake: What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
Mei Ling: Tee-hee!

Looking forward to the new sys.

[Anonymous Coward]

The sys will be backwards compatible and it will have good selection of new games on debut. New sys is still using up-rated PPC processor and ATi card.

AS for Nintendo not having any games what are you comparing it too?? I hope not the Xbox. The Nintendo Cube currently has 400 games out for it and should top that before Christmas. Sony is only sys that has more due to it being out longer and having the lib. of the PS1.

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[hattig]

So you are saying what? "GameCube Pro" in essence?

Double (or triple, whatever) the speed of the processor, graphics, etc. Add more memory.

Games can check the system, if it is a standard GameCube then use the standard maps and graphics, etc. If it is a Pro model then load in the higher detail maps with the higher detail textures, etc?

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[metalmario]

so now the make makers should spend _more_ time on making the games: high resolution textures, models, etc. are only extra. as the games have to run on the "old cube" as well...

so, is it worth the extra development cost?

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[vrlink]

Considering the internal architecture of the Gamecube and the former n64, I'd expect a G5, MacOS X 10.3 (panther) based console, where the games would run over either aqua or XDarwin. Also, new available devices such as USB keyboards and mice and an in-board ethernet card would be available. The ATI graphics card seems to be already popular among PPC (mac, camecube) machines so I'd expect nothing less than the top-of-the-line ATI card. Of course, for the sound device, it should be no less than the equivalent of a Korg Triton Rack or a Yamaha motif rack. Optical sound output is a must. Who doesn't have his/her gamecube conneted to some S/PDIF-capable receiver? Controls should include the already successfgull desing for the original gamecuge but also mind-controlled devices, so you can at last beat andross without getting the pain in yout thumbs :)

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[hattig]

I'd imagine that all models, etc, start off with higher resultion, as do the textures, and then are cut down until they meet the spec of the hardware. So no big loss there.

Certainly a lot less effort than doing a complete rewrite for different hardware.

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[metalmario]

but how about the storage size then? storing two versions of the same models might mean that the games do no fit into one disc. two discs, one for old cube and one for the new?

the games could use algorithms to scale down the models and the textures from the high quality versions on the old cube, but this would make the old cube games slower (at least the loading and level init times).

but would it be worth it? the new cube v1.5 might be killed by the next generation sony and m$ consoles...

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[sbma44]

why would you assume this? when you have fixed hardware to support it makes no sense to put the data in anything but a ready-to-use format.

I really doubt a "gamecube pro" is in the works. If it is, the games won't change. I'd instead look for an integrated BBA (wireless?), built-in wavebird receivers, and some sort of prologic II -> 5.1 hack.

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[hattig]

I assume it because that is how you do game development. Half of the work is in reducing the models, etc, enough to create an overall playable game.

I still doubt that there will be a GameCube Pro (at least one with faster hardware, etc - consoles thrive because of the fixed hardware platform) myself (although it would be nice). However Nintendo should integrate the broadband adaptor by default I agree.

Another good idea, in my opinion, would be for Nintendo to offer a GameCube logic board to OEM ... so that GameCube functionality could be in a lot more DVD players, etc, than just that expensive Panasonic cube device. That would do a lot more for Nintendo's bottom line in my opinion, as people would get a "free" gamecube with their DVD player. Still, they should have done this a year ago or more.

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[sbma44]

ok -- maybe we agree. I can't tell. I realize that development is done with higher-resolution art. That's then downsampled for production, though -- the stuff that goes on the GDROM (or whatever nintendo calls it) is probably at the quality level the production system is going to want, so that the overhead associated with the downsampling doesn't have to be done every time the resources are used.

Yes, Nintendo could release a more powerful console, but users' discs don't have the data to take advantage of it. The developers do, no doubt -- but they'd have to rerelease the games in a higher-capacity format with the hi-res art. This is not a completely ludicrous idea ("Gold Edition" or similar marketing BS), but it'd be a very niche product. I suspect it'd flop, and I think Nintendo realizes this (esp. after the success they've enjoyed recently by making their product cheaper).

Re:Looking forward to the new sys.

[Wolfier]

>So you are saying what? "GameCube Pro" in
>essence?

"GameCube Advance" is a much plausible name, I think.

I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you think the X-Box is "pretty good".

X-Box isn't half as good as the Dreamcast. Fan-boy.

Re:I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

If the Dreamcast is so good, and the X-Box is only half as good, I think there's still a good chance that it's pretty good. And it's fan-boi, fan-boi.

Re:I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ima sk8r boi. I shit you not.

Re:I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

NO, you're just a fruitcake, fruit boi.

If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Faust7]

...I hope they'll have taken a cue from what's been going on around them and adopt some of the features necessary to maintain a substantial presence in the marketplace.

I have heard Nintendo previously called the "Apple" of console gaming--that is, an entity that can eke out a continued niche market existence for as long as they please. The analogy isn't perfect; after all, one need not justify one's taste in games, so unless one is composed of an exceptionally weak or impressionable mind, there isn't a lot of pressure for incumbents to switch from the Cube.

However, technology will eventually take its toll. Online gaming is exploding, has already exploded. DVDs and DVD-like formats are the established standard. Third-party support has grown amazingly and is now vital for console survival. Top-end video and audio capability are no longer luxuries, but expected. Even Sony has realized the advantages of hard drives, media players, etc.

Should Nintendo wish to continue, their array of insane geniuses will need to begin to practice just a little conformity.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, what a post.

Just one change, though.

The title of your post should be "Why I'm too fucking stupid to work in the console biz"

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess.

You're a dude with a peecee and a flopbox?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[einer]

I respectfully disagree.

As long as the experience provided by the game is unique, enjoyable and has a low dollar to playable time ratio, they will do just fine, and will continue to be the choice of discriminating gamers.

Form follows function. If the functionality of enough of their proposed new games requires a hard drive, then one should be added. A hard drive should not be included, and then programmed for, merely for the sake of 'conformity.'

I don't really enjoy online gaming. I think it's cost prohibitive, not yet well enough debugged, and over hyped.

Do I sound curmudgeonly?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Epistax]

If Nintendo is the apple of gaming systems, them I must have some severe suicidal tendencies.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck modded this drivel up?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fanboy senses... tingling.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[sbma44]

Well, I think you've got a skewed perspective due to Microsoft's willingness to flush money down the crapper on XBox. Gamecube is graphically more powerful than the PS2, but otherwise I'd say the machines are fairly comparable (except the lack of DVD playback -- a conscious antipiracy decision this time that probably hurt console sales, although with commodity DVD player prices, people no longer care about their console playing movies).

The XBox's integrated ethernet, harddrive and processor power is impressive, but Microsoft is taking a big hit on every console sold, whereas the GCN was designed to be sold at a profit. Microsoft has artificially advanced the console SOTA by a generation in a bid to become a competitive player in a market where they had no foothold.

Yes, the next gen hardware will have to all have about the same specs to be competitive, but I think you're wrong to imply that Nintendo has been dragging their feet. The GCN is a pretty great machine for the price and size.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[mbbac]

already exploded. DVDs and DVD-like formats are the established standard.

You mean like the 3" DVD that the GameCube uses?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[PainKilleR-CE]

However, technology will eventually take its toll. Online gaming is exploding, has already exploded.

Nintendo has online adapters available, and are even using it for LAN play, but no one else is developing online capability on their console. Why not talk to EA and ask why they're not putting the online component of their games out on the GC versions? If it's already exploded, Nintendo shouldn't have to talk about it or put it in all of their games, the 3rd parties should be supporting it to sell their games. Yet 3rd parties wonder why their multi-console titles don't sell well on the Cube, when they're not even taking advantage of the platform.

DVDs and DVD-like formats are the established standard.

Yes, that 3" GC disc is a DVD-based format, as well, just like the 3" disc that the PSP will use is a DVD-based format.

Third-party support has grown amazingly and is now vital for console survival.

It always has been, but then only if 3rd parties develop quality games. It's nice to throw around numbers like 500 or 1500 games like Sony does with the PS2 or Nintendo does with the GBA, but the reality is that people want to look at a shelf full of games and see multiple titles they want to play. It's impressive to see the walls of PS2 titles most retailers carry, but closer inspection reveals that the games most people want would take up significantly less space.

Top-end video and audio capability are no longer luxuries, but expected.

Yes, and Sony's the bottom of the barrel for video and audio in the current generation.

Even Sony has realized the advantages of hard drives, media players, etc.

Sony invented the advantages of media players in consoles with the PS1, it's hardly something they've had to realize. It provides excellent possibilities for selling other products their corporation has to offer, like CDs and DVDs, since they're proud members of the RIAA and MPAA. As for the advantages of hard drives, where is that PS2 hard drive? I found an article a little while ago (which was quite old) that said it would be widely available in the US in 2001 bundled with the broadband adapter.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[l33t mn!ml]

Then maybe they should take a cue from Apple and base their next console on Unix or Linux. It would not only impress (and steal) some of the geeks that are customers to Sony and Microsoft, but would likely spur some independent development by the open source community.

Also, I can't say this for sure, but it would seem to be easier for developers to design games for its console (as I've heard complaints about the proprietary design software for the Playstation). And, concordantly, one could redesign Nintendo games for Linux for a little extra revenue...

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[amokk]

but Microsoft is taking a big hit on every console sold

Stop perpetuating this myth you fucking tard . While Microsoft may have sold X-boxes at a loss initially, this is not true of the current models.

Manufacturing processes improve and allow manufacturers to potentially *MAKE A PROFIT* on things they sell. Is this such a foreign concept to morons like yourself or is this just another excuse to bash Microsoft for seemingly no reason?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[sbma44]

MS is losing money on the xbox

this site estimates it's about $100 per console

more links

Most of these articles are from 6 months ago, the last time MS released information on how its Xbox division was doing. But I would be very surprised if these unspecified manufacturing process improvements have made up for the estimated $100 per console hit MS was taking in May.

Look, there's no reason to resort to ad-hominem attacks. The Xbox is losing money. MS is buying a share of the gaming market. That's not an indictment of the product, or even the business plan. But it's a fact.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[stonecypher]

Oh, that's like calling GM a niche player. Nintendo has the highest selling game system in the world, and the second highest selling television console not only in the world but in each major sector.

Also, "foo and foo-like are standard" is a silly thing to say. If foo is standard, foo-likes don't exist. Besides, the GC *does* use a dvd-like standard; it's very close to a mini-dvd.

As far as sony having realized the advantages of hard drives, erm, no, they haven't. Their baseline model doesn't come with a hard drive, and it is difficult to get the hard drive expansion. The high-end model, which is expected to cost more than triple what the baseline model does, is a PVR; the only reason there's a hard drive in there is that the PVR needs it.

Top-end video and audio capability? Can you name a Nintendo system that has ever been released that hasn't been the best graphics or sound of its day? Hint: there's only one, and that's because N dropped the ball on the GameCube. The reason you probably think of the PlayStation as having higher quality graphics hardware than the N64, which it doesn't, is that by comparison it had preposterous storage space, allowing it to do things like play prerendered movies.

Should Nintendo wish to continue, they should continue what they've been doing for over two decades. They've weathered corporate sabotage by Sony quite well, and maintain a lead over a company which has intentionally flushed over a billion dollars down the toilet trying to get well known. Sony has a huge advantage in that it is already a manufacturing giant, giving them margin leads that Nintendo can't compete with.

I suggest that you stop karma whoring and research a bit. They maintain a substantial position in the marketplace, and are gaining share while the other two players are losing it. There isn't a justifiable statemet anywhere in your comment. How you got 5, insightful is beyond me.

(-4, Ludicrous Under Scrutiny)

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[h0mer]

Can you name a Nintendo system that has ever been released that hasn't been the best graphics or sound of its day?

NES: Sega Master System had better graphics by far, but NES games were better.

Game Boy: Lynx/Game Gear had much better graphics, but GB games were better.

SNES: Tops in all categories.

Nintendo 64: Could've had amazing graphics, but Nintendo didn't help the developers enough. Witness the later release of the RAM Expansion. And since you mentioned sound too, PS1 CD audio beats compressed shit music any day of the week.

Game Boy Advance: Tops in all categories.

GameCube: A little bit behind Xbox in graphics, but mops the floor with PS2. Sucks for sound, no true surround sound and music tracks usually suffer due to the smaller disc.

I love Nintendo just as much as anyone else, but take those rose-colored glasses off.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[hesiod]

> Do I sound curmudgeonly?

Nope, except for the Genesis I bought last year, the last console I owned was a NES. 8-bit should be damn well good enough for anyone!

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[IncohereD]

Wasn't Game Boy first out the door by a long shot? And NES perhaps a fair bit ahead of the Master System (I'm less sure of that one).

The handheld market Game Boy entered upon release was filled with those Tiger Double Dragon games. Then the race was obviously on for someone to make a colour competitor. But I don't think those colour parts can be considered same generation, Game Boy just lasted a truly disgusting amount of time in the market. Isn't it still the highest selling game unit of all time?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[stonecypher]

NES: Sega Master System had better graphics by far, but NES games were better.

This is a point of difficulty during argument. What US gamers call the Sega Master Ssytem is in fact the Mark 3 base. Whereas it is true that the Mark 3 is superior to the NES, it didn't exist until 1986. Most pages will say that the Master System was released before the NES in Japan; that's the SG-1000, and it is not superior to the NES. The SMS Americans know and love postdates the NES by two years.

Game Boy: Lynx/Game Gear had much better graphics, but GB games were better.

The GameBoy was released in early 1989. The GameGear didn't show up until late 1991 - a two and a half year difference. The Lynx apparently only postdates the GameBoy by a few months, which is a surrise to me; you've got me there. I was under the misimpression that it too was later on.

Nintendo 64: Could've had amazing graphics, but Nintendo didn't help the developers enough.

Whereas I certainly agree (and point out that a lot of the problem was storage space for textures), the germane bit of the discussion was about the hardware.

I love Nintendo just as much as anyone else, but take those rose-colored glasses off.

Well, you've got me on the Lynx. The rest of this could use some reminders about the way history really went. I'll take off my rose colored glasses when you put on your research hat.

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Sony invented the advantages of media players in consoles with the PS1.

Did anyone ever actually use the PS1's CD player?

Re:If they launch one, whenever they do...

[h0mer]

In reply to the SMS vs. NES thing...

They're from the same generation, I don't care what came out first. By your logic, PS2 isn't the same generation as GC/XBox since it predates them by a lengthly (in video game time) amount. Especially since most would agree that the NES really hit its stride from 1986 onward.

ooh ooh I know

[tomstdenis]

how about a GBA update where they put ram in it! :-) .... For those who don't know. There is a 16MB hole where the built in ram goes. The GBA has but 256KB of ram [16-bit bus].

So two big ways to improve the GBA would be

1. More ram [say 2MB at least]
2. Make the data bus larger [so you can run ARM code out of it]

The trick though would be to not kill backwards compatibility. I think a toggle for the ram/bus would be in order [e.g. set bit to get "advanced plus" mode].

Re:ooh ooh I know

[stonecypher]

Actually, this isn't accurate. GBA puts everything into a linear address space. It has two primary blocks of user ram: IWRAM, 32k, starting at 0x03000000, and EWRAM, 256k, starting at 0x0200000. There is room to expand *both* to 16meg. The BIOS and System ROMS (0m), IO registers (4m), Palettes (5m), video ram(6m) and OAM (7m) each have similar available ranges. 1m is completely unused.

Better still, the top 4 bits of the address bus are completely unused (10m-FFm).

There's a *tremendous* amount of space for new RAM, new storage, new devices, et cetera. If N upgrades, there's more than 16m of room to work with. :D

Re:ooh ooh I know

[madmancarman]

The trick though would be to not kill backwards compatibility. I think a toggle for the ram/bus would be in order [e.g. set bit to get "advanced plus" mode].

This sounds a lot like real mode vs. protected mode. Protected mode (and extended memory) helped extend the DOS lifespan by many, many years, so I don't see why it wouldn't work with the GBA. They'd just have to maintain backward compatibility as they have been.

Oh yeah - and add two more buttons! How can the GBA release SNES remakes with only A & B?

A couple more for you....

[purrpurrpussy]

Add some extra OAM/BG ram so that the 15 bit video mode can be properly double (or even triple) buffered.... nice.. If they really wanted to they could ramp the speed by 16 times and just down clock for compatibility....

Re:A couple more for you....

[tomstdenis]

Ok so say

1. up the video ram to 192KB
2. up the internal ram to 64KB
3. Up the external ram to [at least] 1MB, 32-bit bus
4. up the cpu to 32Mhz

Of course make this toggleable, 100$ and .... :-)

Actually by having stuff nice multiples [2x, 4x] like that you can get by with alot of [oh in old mode just AND with a zero] e.g. the 64KB of iram just gets the 16'th bit zeroed in all ops. For the iram the two top [bit 20/19], etc...

So really the cost would be low since an AND gate wouldn't really make the design complicated :-)

A decent 32Mhz or so [or better yet throtable] would make for more interesting games [e.g. less planar scrolly more 3d games].

If they wanted to go really far out maybe a simple triangle hardware renderer that could speak directly to the vram? E.g. give it a list of 3d triangles [or an array in mem], a camera, etc, and plot away! Of course then you will need some texture memory built in [cuz the bus latencies for that would be insnae]. So a simple 3d chip with say 256KB of ram [for verticies/textures].

That would totally rock and prolly not kill the battery too much [specially if you can turn off the extra stuff in standard GBA mode].

Tom

Re:A couple more for you....

[Anonymous Coward]

Or get a GP32 :-)

Re:A couple more for you....

[tomstdenis]

AFAIK the GP32 only has more ram+cpu. But it lacks one huge thing. It doesn't come from Nintendo.

Or more importantly it isn't compatible with any GB/GBA games.

Also the GP32 doesn't have anything special in terms of graphics [other than a larger screen].

Make the GBA into a GP32 with some 3d graphics and backwards compatibility and we're all set :-)

Tom

Re:A couple more for you....

[Anonymous Coward]

How about ethernet? That wouldn't kill the battery to much.

And now that we are at it, how about that it runs linux?

Hey, make it cell phone also! PIM anyone?

I still remember a time when games didn't have to render 4127895235345 polygons per second to be "fun"

Re:A couple more for you....

[purrpurrpussy]

Ah! But the beauty of the GBA is being able to hack your code! 3D renderer would be nice but if the clock speed when from 2^24 to 2^28 (~262Mhz) then you have a silly number of clocks per pixel (over a hundred).... BEAUT!!!

If they really wanted to go far out they could put 2 or more ARM7 cores on board!

Maybe they'll go for the ARM9 with vector ops and floating point next time around. I think I'd rather see the clock speed ramped....

A 32bit bus would REALLY help though.

Re:A couple more for you....

[tomstdenis]

We're not talking leading edge stuff here. Just there are only so many side scrollers you can write before they're redundant. Besides fps games are not the only thing you can do with a 3d core.

But seriously adding a whopping 2MB of ram to a system isn't "4 billion polygons per second of fun" it's "we're not dealing with mono graphics, square wave generators we really need a bit of ram" fun.

My ideas totalled adding 96+32+1768=1896KB of ram to the system [128KB of which would be SRAM] a simple [toggable] 3d core [e.g. you can turn it off when not required or leave it off per default].

Hell you could do the DRAM as banks too and have the ability to power down a bank or two [e.g. do it as 512KB banks].

The point is the GBA isn't a huge step up from the GB. It has shit all ram [well ok compared to the GB it has a lot more] on a 16-bit bus [which defeats the purpose] and really no good graphics behind it. So I think if they're going to mod anything they should bring the GB out of the stone age.

Tom

Re:A couple more for you....

[tomstdenis]

I'd stick with the ARM7 [low power] but you're right even 128Mhz would be nice [58 cycles per pixel, 116 if you use a 30hz clock]. Considering if you ran the graphics core out of the iram that's a hell of a lot of processing power per pixel.

If they added in a hardware divide that would be nice [64x32=>32]... then you could really do some 3d math.

Tom

Re:A couple more for you....

[purrpurrpussy]

Hmmm... I'd prefer a reciporacal instruction ala 3DNOW!* instead of a divide. Really useful instruction. A nice big multiplier to return the upper bits of the multiply and away you go.

*I! hate! that! exclamation! mark! though!!!!!

Re:A couple more for you....

[yerricde]

Or more importantly it isn't compatible with any GB/GBA games.

Doesn't a Game Boy emulator already run on GP32? And they're working on porting VisualBoyAdvance, a GPL'd GBA emulator.

Re:A couple more for you....

[Anonymous Coward]

Currently, large reciprocal tables are fairly common in ROM to get around divides.

It's a refresher product. a souped up cube

[*weasel]

oh, when they say 2005 - they mean christmas 2005, which is the broad release estimate that all 3 console makers have been giving for the nextgen gear.

but anyway, this coming out exactly 1 year before the nextgen strongly suggests that it is a refresher for the line. perhaps simply just a repackaged gamecube (here's wishing they add 64/snes backwards compat).

but the one year lead is inline with sony's demonstration of the success of restructuring your existing console to take advantage of lower manufacturing and component costs, and shipping the old product in a new sleek design at lower cost a year before your new design. Nintendo may be trying to bring their costs down to mitigate production losses at their current price. The Gamecube may have made money for nintendo on each sale at $200, but it's very unlikely that it's still a direct profit item at its $100 price.

it has long been rumored that MS is indeed planning the same thing for the xbox, and sony's announced pvr/digital tv tuner/ps2 certainly sounds like they aren't bucking the trend.

Releasing the next gen nintendo box now would be a -bad- move. developer support for the gamecube has been evaporating - but the trend may reverse itself due to the GC's strong sales with its new superlow price. if they keep to the official schedule, they have a shot at getting developers back on board with their refresh product, and actually have some 3rd party games for their next console.

besides, if it was the nextgen console - there'd already have to have been developer kits sent out, and someone would've leaked something - one does not crank out games for nintendo in 10 months. (nintendo not being a fan of shovelware)

Margin Changes

[jorjun]

My guess is that, since the PS2 is the lowest common denominator CPU performance-wise and has the largest market share, and that software is now easy to port to every format; then there will be a small evolutionary change to clearly emphasise the value of choosing Nintendo, and to raise profit margin by offering the new unit at a higher price.

Sound support should be improved to dolby digital sound, from pro-logic II. Various wire-free options could be incorporated also. The WaveBird (wireless controller), and the broadband adapter and game-boy player could be integrated into a similar (backwardly compatible) unit, with the expectation that many more multi-player on-line games will be ready soon and since we are all wireless hungry. A wire-free option of the GameBoy and wire-free link to the new console would also be neat.

Maybe it's...

[Andy_R]

Virtual Boy 2?

"niche market" is second place for marketshare?

[hethatishere]

I think your analogy only partially works and with a little research you would have found that currently, with Nintendo extending it's price-drop almost world-wide it has furthered it's second place world-wide marketshare lead. If U.S sales continue as they are into the Holiday (which is anyone's guess) they will have quite a lead over the XBox in this country. So, Apple is about 3% of sold computers, the percentage is a bit higher when you consider the number of non-profits and other organizations who continue to use the older models but aren't buying new ones. This is a far cry from Nintendo, who has the biggest selling video-game system in the world (The GBA), and the second-best selling console in the world (The GameCube). And while the latter is trailing the PS2 by a sizeably chunk it is anywhere from being a "niche" player. Such statements can be chalked up to ignorance and lack of research, because a few Google Searches and statistics would tell you otherwise.

New Means "Not Currently Available"

[robbway]

Nintendo has made and remade their old systems. Mostly its to include cheaper parts, and sometimes it also includes a size reduction. Gameboy goes thru the most facelifts. Therefore, I'm guessing it's either: a new design for the cube (perhaps smaller/lighter?), a new design for Gameboy Advance with a mobile phone imbedded (that's where my money is), or a new phone with yet another set of cartridges for games. I suppose another possibility is a super Game-N-Watch system, but how unlikely is that?

Re:New Means "Not Currently Available"

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they put a mobile phone in their GBA? So it can be a humongous flop like the N-Gage?

Re:New Means "Not Currently Available"

[Anonymous Coward]

Therefore, I'm guessing it's either: a new design for the cube (perhaps smaller/lighter?)

How much smaller/lighter could the gamecube possibly get? It's already 4x4x3 (or 4 with the GBA player)... Maybe the next step is to remove the purse handle?

Personally, I want to see the next iteration of consoles represent more platonic volumes: "Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Nintendo Dodecahedron!"

Re:New Means "Not Currently Available"

[anti-leet]

Smaller? Eek; I'm already afraid to sneeze near my GameCube, for fear of it flying backwards through my TV.

Re:New Means "Not Currently Available"

[robbway]

Replying to all replies:
1) Because mobile phones are more saturated among the Japanese population. It'd be a big hit there. Most of the hurdles that NGage has are not a problem with GBA SP: It folds small and protects screen, it's graphics are very nice, it has lots and lots of games, good construction and you don't have to remove the battery to play a different game.
2) 4x4x3 what? I think you mean 4:4:3 ratio. The Advance player, being much larger than the advance, is way too big. The reason I suggested smaller is competition for the PSP, which uses the same sized disk as cube. (Purse handle has got to go.)
3) Claratin or Allegra, and a LCD projector so that it flies thru the wall? ;)

iQue info

[muffen]

Read this story on maxconsole earlier today.

iQue seems cool, but IMHO you can get an N64 cheaper these days from places like eBay, and the iQue is more or less the N64.

Some cut/paste from the maxconsole story:
Nintendo 64 Nano-Technology inside It is now confirmed that the iQue player is a Nintendo 64 console that makes use of similar Nano-Technolgy that is used in Sony's PSX: the technology used will allow the unit to have a single chip solution containing CPU, Graphic Engine, GPU etc. Positive side-effects are a doubled operating speed, reduced electronic noises and very low power consumption. Regarding Nintendo/iQue spokespersons in China, the iQue will be the first gaming device on the market that makes use of that technology, followed by Sony's PSX which is due to release in December. This statement at least gives us hope that the unit might still be released before Christmas ;-)

...

What's in the box, including games The unit released first contains a 64MBytes Flash Card, the AV cable, a power supply (220V), the power cord and 5 games pre-recorded on the card. Included are 5 games, while only Doctor Mario is a full version. Zelda 64: Ocarina of Time (10 hours), Mario 64 (7 hours), Wave Race (1 hour) and Star Fox (1 hour) are time limited demo versions. It's a "very new" distribution system, indeed. No other titles have been officially confirmed to us as of yet, but the N64 has got lots of great titles. Full versions of games cost 48 Yuan, that's approx US$ 6. In-game text and manuals are in simplified Chinese language, in-game voices are in mandarin. The box also contains a serial number and password that allow you to download new titles to your system at Nintendo partners throughout Shanghai, and possible also through the Internet. The card maintains a download log, so users can regain the previous game titles again free of charge if they want to play them again.

Re:iQue info

[edwdig]

iQue seems cool, but IMHO you can get an N64 cheaper these days from places like eBay, and the iQue is more or less the N64.

How many Chinese people do you think buy video game consoles off Ebay?

Even if they could get a used n64 a little cheaper (which I doubt), don't you think they'd rather spend a little more to get a game in their native language?

Re:iQue info

[Asmandeus]

So it's basically an system emulator and N64 roms using flash and running on newer generation computer hardware. At least, that's how I see it.

My bet: new Gameboy

[koi88]

The GBA may be selling well but customers today expect 3D acceleration, MP3 and video playback... if Nintendo intruduces something like that while maintaining compatibility to GBA, it could be a big success.
Besides, as Nintendo is AFAIK not connected to any record- or film-company, that could mean a non-crippled non-DRM device.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[Dot.Com.CEO]

No, "customers" want a cheap games console that is portable and has a good selection of games. I, for one, couldn't care less for video playback and mp3 for a games machine, I have separate devices for that. What you're advocating is Nintendo copying Sony' strategy of creating a portable entertainment centre. Although I believe Sony will produce an excellent product (PSP), there is no way, given the price point they're aiming for, that it's going to be as popular as the GBA.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[sbma44]

The GBA may be selling well but customers today expect 3D acceleration, MP3 and video playback

Huh?! MP3 I'll give you. 3D acceleration really demands higher resolution than a portable can give you to have big advantages over sprites, but perhaps kids are too stupid to realize that. But video? Where is it coming from? What portable video players are on the market today that make this seem like a standard? I've read nothing but bad review of the Archos and its kin. Do you think the average GBA user is prepared to rip their DVDs, compress them to a GBA-screen-sized divx file and dump them to compactflash?

I doubt Nintendo is stupid enough to try producing their own video content. My money is on the phone/GBA combo.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[31 Flavas]

It will be a sad day when "gamers" won't play games just because they don't have 3D graphics, DTS sound, and a $15 million budget.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[Anonymous Coward]

The GBA may be selling well but customers today expect 3D acceleration, MP3 and video playback...

only a complete moron would say that.

the GBA and GBA-SP even Outsell the Xbox! and By the way the GBASP HAS 3d acceleration... play super monkey ball on it you dork.

only fricking idiots or 13 year old wannabe's say the crap you do.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[yerricde]

What I've seen of Super Monkey Ball Jr. is not 3D acceleration at all. It's software 3D in 120x80 pixels; notice the flat shading.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[koi88]

"...but perhaps kids are too stupid to realize that."
Exactly. I don't say it all these things be of much benefit, but a few cool demos and clever advertising can make people believe the *need* 3d and whatever else.
For Video -- I see music videos as a good idea for content (easy to compress enough to fit on a CF or similiar card, especially considering the relatively small resolution of no more than 320x320).
And if the whole device is compatible to GBA, it could slowly replace it.

Re:My bet: new Gameboy

[TrekCycling]

I agree totally. All this talk about how the portable market HAS to go 3D is certainly sad. The GBA has one of the best game lineups (especially if you like strategy or RPG games) on the market, but yet everyone is demanding 3D on a handheld. I'll stick with the current GBA, thanks.

iQue

[LightningTH]

The article also mentions the Nintedo iQue, so it's pretty clear this is not just a mix-up regarding the new, China-only system.

I read thru the article and did not spot anything about iQue. I even did a search for it in the article and did not see anything. From the reading, it sounds like they are talking about the iQue, not a new console that will be world wide.

From the article:

The company will start selling the next-generation video game machine next year in Japan. It didn't say whether the machine would be hand-held. Sales of consoles will begin in China this month, Nintendo said.

That sure sounds like the iQue being launched in china and spreading to Japan next year.

Hypemeter = Low

[cgenman]

Nintendo is known for spreading more pre-launch hype than any other console company. They hyped Project Reality (PR) years before it was ready, they hyped the Dolphin from day one... Just about the only thing they didn't grossly overhype was the Game Boy Advance, and that was because their stopgap Game Boy Color was so popular they felt they would alienate part of the market if they did.

The hypemeter around this is low, so the likelihood of a next-generation console is quite slim. More likely, they will announce a GameCube compatible DVD player from a 3rd party company, or possibly (and this is the one I'm hoping for) a GBA built into a proper Game Cube controller.

Until they start trotting around Miyamoto shouting about the second coming of Mario, they're not launching the next console yet. Until they have hardware in the hands of developers, they're not ready to launch.

Re:Hypemeter = Low

[Bagels]

Actually, such a device (third-party DVD- and GameCube-playing console) already exists, though not in the US. It's called the Panasonic Q. At least some import sites used to offer a modded version which could play both US and Japanese games.

Re:Hypemeter = Low

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony wears the crown for overhype.

Re:Hypemeter = Low

[master_p]

No, the biggest hype machine is Sony. Their claim that PS2 would be able to offer cinematic graphics with 75,000,000 polygons with full fx killed the Dreamcast.

Now we know that PS2 is not that better than the Dreamcast...Xbox smokes it, and a top-of-line PC smokes everything else!!!

By the way, is there any reason to buy Nintendo any more ? all the hot games are in the PC and PS2. We are tired of Mario, Zelda and Fox anyway.

(And the GBA sucks. Primitive 16-bit graphics at a tiny blurry screen...i've seen palm computers play MAME (Cassiopeia comes to mind), a much better experience!!!)

Folks at Garmin

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope that Nintendo considered the folks at Garmin when considering its naming scheme. Be original. Copy someone else.

Re:Folks at Garmin

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of "this article is not about iQue" don't you understand?

It's not a new console!

[gamgee5273]

There is basic evidence pointing to this: there have been no developer machines sent out. There's no way in hell Nintendo's going to launch a new console three years after launching the current one without sending out development kits.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an iQue add-on for the GCN. Perhaps, using an iTunes-type store, we'll be able to buy older Nintendo ROMs over the Internet (using the broadband or modem adpaters, perhaps?) and put them on Flash cards, which we can then use on the iQue add-on for the GCN.

That makes sense. A new console doesn't.

Re:It's not a new console!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, you can already do something like what you're asking for (except that you rent, rather than buy, the NES games online)

See ConsoleClassix which has been previously featured on SlashDot.

Re:It's not a new console!

[peregrin641]

It could be a new console. Think about it...

Nintendo is best known for first and second party software, so I'm sure there are plenty of games in development with its close friends (Too Human).

Furthermore, as long as their next console is backwards compatible, they can continue to bring out third party software on the new console, so they will stay competitive with Sony and M$.

Besides, Nintendo has planned from day 1 to be the first out with the next-gen console. Why not REALLY early, and maybe even release another console a year after the PS3, XBN are released?

Re:It's not a new console!

[gamgee5273]

I agree that you can do it, but Nintendo ain't making any money on it, are they? ;)

Think about it: you drop in the iQue disc, go to the iQue store, and pick up the game you want, all on the GCN and your TV. Apple has proven people will do it with music, even though it isn't profitable for them unless you buy an iPod to take your music with you. Nintendo has a different way to make the money because: 1) you would need Nintendo hardware; and 2) Nintendo owns those ROMs and would make money on them (unlike Apple, not owning the music).

Now, what would be cool is renting the game online if you don't want to just buy the ROM...

That could be very cool...and would explain why Nintendo's been holding off on telling their online strategy to people. The iQue may just be a tester to see if people will do it. With China's love affair with bootlegs, Nintendo may be testing issues and bugs they see in the distribution system and fix them in China, on the iQue, before they send it out to the other regions.

It may also explain why George Harrison (NOA's president) has gone on record as not knowing what the big announcement will be next year. Something like this would be big, but not as major as a switch to a new console.

Re:It's not a new console!

[gamgee5273]

Two words. They are:

1) Saturn; and
2) Dreamcast.

If they follow Sega's pattern, then they deserve what's coming to them. And I'm a Nintendo fanboy who's saying this. It just wouldn't be a smart business move. I know I wouldn't go out to buy a replacement system after spending close to $400 on my GCN in just hardware (GC, GB Player, three extra controllers, GB-GC connector cable) since November, 2001. I will not appreciate a move by Nintendo to release a $249-$399 system in November, 2004, and I doubt many others will, either.

First out of the starting gate is rarely the strongest in the field. It may, technically, be strong, but if the right decisons aren't made at the right times... disaster will loom and loyal customers will leave.

Now, if it's a "GameCube 1.5" with the broadband and the GB Player built-in, etc., then I doubt many people would be upset. But an entirely new system? Bad, bad, bad idea.

It's Suicide

[DroopyStonx]

Look at Sega and how they always were the first to launch the first next gen. console.

It gives the competition a chance to check out what you've made and make theirs that much better. I predicted for years that Sega would eventually fold because of their practices, and I think Nintendo is next up to bat unless they do something incredibly revolutionary with the next system.

Re:It's Suicide

[sammaffei]

Sony beat Sega because of these reasons:

1. PS1 backward compatability.
2. Anounced PS2 was coming before Dreamcast was released (thus making potential Dreamcast customers hold their purse strings for PS2).
3. Sega had already screwed too many customers over in the past (Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn) to make them comeback to the fold.
4. Dreamcast had nowhere near the kind of hype PS2 had on release (remember the eBay auctions for $1000).

I know hindsight is 20/20...

Sega should have thrown in a Sega CD / Saturn emulator and possibly a PS1 emuatlor (and joined Connectix against Sony in the PlayStation emulator lawsuits). Bleemcast was too little too late (and not as originally advertised),

They should have also counter advertised that they are now and PS2 is a year from now.

Worked the hype machine more (not a media type, so I don't know one does this)

New system

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo have already stated in the past that they wanted to beat or at least meet Sony in launching a new console. They consider that they have paid dearly because both N64 and Gamecube came to market after playstations 1 and 2 and don't want the same thing happening with PS3.

Not to beat a dead horse

[Dracono]

But could anyone explain to me how this could be anything but the iQue? #1 iQue is not listed anywhere in the article. #2 iQue launches next month in China, which the article states is the launch date for this new console #3 iQue hype and rumors have hinted that it will launch globally next year, which is what the article says about the console and the Japan market. Could the article have been changed since it was submitted to /.? That's the only thing I can reason out that would explain the discrepancy between the post and the article itself.

Re:Not to beat a dead horse

[Cyphertube]

The iQue is not mentioned by name, but in the end of the article they did write: "The company also announced that it will begin selling a game console specially designed for the China market this month."

I would dare say that Nintendo is perhaps looking at accelerating their next console to beat out Sony, and drive some more nails into the Japanese XBox coffin.

Re:Not to beat a dead horse

[dstyle5]

Why would they release the iQue in Japan, or anywhere else in the world besides China? Japan had the N64 ages ago, so why would they release a console that is around 8 years old to the market again? The iQue is an experiment for Nintendo to see how Chinese game players accept a pay-for-your-games business model as opposed to the rampant piracy that occurs there now.

The GameBoy Advance is system of choice for re-releasing old games (SNES & NEs that is). I'm sure the next GameBoy will have the power to play N64 games.

GBA Sucessor

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is a GBA sucessor seen as unlikely?
Are we forgetting that the Sony PSP is coming next Christmas? Don't you think Nintendo will need something a little more ... '3D enabled' to combat it commerically?

WAY too big

[Little Grey]

I honestly hope that iQue doesn't actually look like that, it's bigger than the original Xbox controller!! There is no way that the average hand will be able to hold that thing, and certainly not the average Chinese or Japanese hand.

The current GameCube controller is a nice size, and the wireless controller is pushing it a bit. This thing just looks way too big for comfort.

Look at the hell Sony is Going through with thePS2

[Mastagunna]

Titles says enough

Parent modded +3 insightful

[nnnneedles]

Please mods, if you can't chew bubble-gum and walk at the same time, don't go near the moderation system.

WRONG!!!!

[purrpurrpussy]

You can play F0X for 8 hours.... I've done it several times! I have a friend who is as addicted to it as I am. Several times we have played all the way up to 999 points (yup - that's a lot of racing)....

I felt very strange afterwards and couldn't stop dreaming about F0X for several weeks!

Nintendo can't maintain its existence for long

[Anonymous Coward]

And definitely not "for as long as they please".

Look at Sega of Japan - Sega is nearly as old as Nintendo in terms of video game production experience. They had a series of successful consoles and portables, and a few misses, just like Nintendo.

SOJ traded higher than NOJ on the Nikkei at one point.

Today, Sega hires 1/18 of the people it did in 2000 and produces software for other consoles. They are software devs and nothing more.

If I were in charge of Nintendo I'd have shit my pants when that happened.

Sega and Nintendo were pretty much the only "game companies" left participating in the TV console wars. Sega couldn't survive against the deep pockets and third-party pull of the megacorporation conglomerates of Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo has faced similar difficulties with its Gamecube. Despite a recent upturn in sales due to yet another price drop, the Gamecube has the smallest installed user base of any of the systems, Nintendo is losing a bigger share of money per console sold than any of its competitors, and it still has major problems convincing 3rd parties to develop games for it, especially synchronous with other releases.

Sega had planned a successor to Dreamcast. Executives are notorious for making lofty plans and announcements prior to cave-in.

I'm not convinced there will ever be a successor to Gamecube. I get the feeling that by 2005 Nintendo will be focusing - not by choice - on portables and software. Perhaps only software, considering that Sony has now set out to unseat Nintendo in the portable game market.

By 2010 Nintendo as you knew it will be dead, just as the Sega of yesteryear is today.

The megacorporations will produce game consoles, accessories and software, not "game companies".

Re:Nintendo can't maintain its existence for long

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo is not losing money for every console sold. That's Microsoft. Also, Nintendo is profitable now, which Sega wasn't when they dumped their hardware business.

Also, worldwide, Nintendo is the second biggest console. Remember that the X-box doesn't exactly do well in Japan, which is a HUGE market.

Is that FUD I smell?

Possible Reason: GC going downhill in Japan

[AdamHaun]

Let's look at some numbers from Japan, courtesy of The Magic Box.

Thus far in 2003, sales of the GameCube have lagged very far behind those of the PS2 and GBA(the XBox is not a contender in Japan). The PS2 has 2.2 million units sold and the combined GBA/GBASP has 2.8 million units sold. The GC has sold 590000 units. In 2002 the numbers are a little better(3.7/3.3/1.0 million), but Nintendo certainly isn't coming out on top.

Of course, as everyone (should) know, game sales are more important than hardware sales. Let's see what we find. Looking at the top 100 bestselling games for the first half of 2003 we see that the first GC games is at number 26(Zelda: Baton of Wind, 190000 sold in 2002, 660000 sold total). Note that this is actually a popular game from the previous year still clinging on. The next GC game, Kirby, is at number 36 with similar circumstances. The conclusion? That the GC hasn't had a major hit in Japan this year. The Wario game currently looks to be selling okay, and might get there. Resident Evil 4 probably will too. But compare to the other systems! In the top 20 there are 14 PS2 games and 6 GBA games.

In 2002 the GC has three games in the top 20(Mario Party 4, Mario Sunshine, and the same Zelda game mentioned above). Again, better, but not by much.

Note that all of the above games are made by Nintendo themselves.

In America, the situation is better. The GC is in fourth place, but still has 4.7 million sales. There are three games in the top 20, two of which are made by third party licensees. However, it's still not much compared to the commanding lead held by the PS2(and ever-increasing competition from the XBox).

So given that the GC is basically on the bottom in the high-end console market, it's not surprising that Nintendo would try to get a new system out earlier. Given the extremely strong sales of the GBA, I don't think it's likely that their new system will be portable, either. If Nintendo gets their system out a year before anyone else, they'll have time to build up momentum and, more importantly, third party licensees. Nintendo's strength over the past couple generations has been in their in-house games, but those aren't enough to sustain the system. If they play their cards right, Nintendo might just pull a Sony and take the lead in the next generation.

Re:Possible Reason: GC going downhill in Japan

[PainKilleR-CE]

In 2002 the GC has three games in the top 20(Mario Party 4, Mario Sunshine, and the same Zelda game mentioned above). Again, better, but not by much.

It should be noted the 2002 numbers are fiscal year, and end 3 months before the 2003 numbers you quoted. In other words, the slow months from March to the end of July are counted in the 2003 numbers while the end-of-year numbers are counted in the 2002 numbers. Then again, I can't be sure that the summer months are as slow in Japan for games as they are in the US, but then FF X-2s numbers don't change all that much from one chart to the next, but a lot of the other games' numbers dropped significantly.

In America, the situation is better. The GC is in fourth place, but still has 4.7 million sales. There are three games in the top 20, two of which are made by third party licensees. However, it's still not much compared to the commanding lead held by the PS2(and ever-increasing competition from the XBox).

Unfortunately the US yearly sales charts haven't been updated in 3 years, otherwise we could get a better picture of things. Fortunately, the US charts don't change much for months at a time because people keep buying the same games for quite a while (yet it's worth mentioning that the GC and XBox versions of Madden NFL have dropped considerably, with the GC version completely off the top 20 chart. The US charts are ranked by $ rather than units sold, as well, meaning that a GBA game ranked #2 by units sold is #4 because the games are $30-35/each rather than $50/each.

The GC is also only 7,000 units behind the XBox in console sales for the time period of the chart, which is a number the GC has been known to easily surpass when a new game with high appeal comes along (maybe next week?).

So given that the GC is basically on the bottom in the high-end console market, it's not surprising that Nintendo would try to get a new system out earlier. Given the extremely strong sales of the GBA, I don't think it's likely that their new system will be portable, either. If Nintendo gets their system out a year before anyone else, they'll have time to build up momentum and, more importantly, third party licensees. Nintendo's strength over the past couple generations has been in their in-house games, but those aren't enough to sustain the system. If they play their cards right, Nintendo might just pull a Sony and take the lead in the next generation.

The problem with this idea is that they really need the 3rd parties on launch, and that Sega showed in this generation that getting out too early doesn't always help (see the DreamCast). Unless they've managed to keep things very quiet for at least the last 12 months, it's unlikely that they're replacing the Cube within the next year, as 3rd parties would need at least 18 months, and often 24, to prepare launch titles. Sony, on the other hand, will just pull an advertising blitz as soon as the first next-gen console comes out, whether it's Sony's console or not, just as they did with this generation when the DreamCast came out, a year before the PS2. Even MS hit the advertising early on this generation. Everyone knew they were working on a game console long before it came out, but since they were unproven in the market no one waited like they did for Sony.

Holy crap, it could be the next GameCube!

[Randar the Lava Liza]

At least according to an article at Gamespot:

Nintendo also revealed today that it plans to unveil its next-generation console at E3 in May next year. Nintendo's executive director Jinyou Mori stated that the company hopes to release the unannounced next-generation console during the next fiscal year in Japan, and also commented that a simultaneous worldwide release would be ideal.

So unless "next generation console" is supposed to be the next gameboy, we might be looking at the new cube next Christmas. I wonder if they'd be able to get any 3rd party games done in time.

Re:Holy crap, it could be the next GameCube!

[AvantLegion]

Keep in mind that "unveiled in May" doesn't mean "sold by Christmas".

Remember the N64? Or, as plenty of E3 attendees originally knew it as, the "Ultra 64"? There was quite a long time between "unveiling" and actual product release.

3rd party developers do not have dev kits for the next Nintendo system. If they got them tomorrow, that would leave them with less than a year to complete the developmenet process of games for launch. Not going to happen.

RCA inputs

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen at radio shack boxes that have 3 or 4 groups of yellow red and white inputs, and you just press a button to switch from one to another. It still is one more thing to buy, though...

Except the DreamCast was First Next Gen consold

[Anonymous Coward]

The dreamcast came out a year before the PS2. It was way more powerful than the psone and every thing else before it.

Hopefully no GBA hookup

[Daemonicus]

If this also has that damned compatability, there's less of a chance I would get it. It's just a stupid scheme for people to buy their handheld too. Since I 'm in college, I don't have money to throw around. Focus on the GAMES Nintendo instead of finding ways to sell more systems from them.

Re:Hopefully no GBA hookup

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Wow.

Here's some news: the next Nintendo console will have some type of mechanism to hook it up to the next Game Boy device. Your argument is that because you don't have money, Nintendo shouldn't sell a add-on to their consoles but instead should only sell games. But you know what, in order to play Gamecube games - you need a...GASP television!!! Perhaps Nintendo is in cahoots with the television manufacturers! It's a plot against you!! Run away!

GC-GBA connectivity is a nice feature that you don't need to play any of the games that support it. For instance, with Metroid Prime, you can get Samus in the Metroid Fusion suit if you have a GBA and a copy of Metroid Fusion. So if you can't afford that extra, big fucking deal - Metroid Prime is still a great game. Whine about companies trying to make innovative uses of their hardware and you'll get what you deserve - nothing but 'Enter the Matrix' clones.

Re:Hopefully no GBA hookup

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that you need electricity to play. Also you need food to stay alive. Don't forget "friends" if you want to play multiplayer. Shit, Nintendo is really screwing us in the ass, aren't they?

There's a penny arcade comic I stole this shit from but I'm too god damn lazy to look it up.

My guess: Cell Phone/GBA

[Photo_Nut]

Remember that in Japan, public awareness of technology far exceeds the US. Everyone in Japan has a cell, a digital camera, etc, etc. Even their toilets are high tech.

So it wouldn't surprise me if because of Nokia's N-Guage, that Nintento got into the cell phone market with the Gameboy Advanced.

Didn't Sega try this as well?

[Thag]

I seem to remember a Sega-branded expansion card that came with a controller.

Jon Acheson

Let me take a wild guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

The PSP is being released next year, N has been working with the next GameboyA whatever 2 (with 3d support) suposedly for about 2 years? could it be they are finally releasing it just in time to counter their stronger competitor? I mean come on guys, they are just not mentioning if its a console or a handheld to pull your hair, everybody knows the next gamecube is coming out until 2005 (along with the xbox2 and ps3) they even said that themselves a few years ago.

Somebody had to......

[mo^]

2.5 ?????

I'm New Here

[New Here]

I'm New Here

Re:Look at the hell Sony is Going through with the

[Zed2K]

And what 'hell' would that be? Being the number one selling console? Being the one with the most games? Being the one in the most homes? The only real problem they are seeing is that they are reaching saturation point.

If thats hell then whats heaven?

What wil the name be?

[pmz]

Cause Game-Septahedron just doens't have a ring to it.

Like a GBC but for GBA?

[phorm]

Anybody remember when GBC (GameBoy colour) came out? It was better than your old monochrome gameboy, and eventually prices made it drop into the same range.

I'd be looking for something in the future, but as a replacement to GBA (GameBoy Advanced). Perhaps an upgraded processor, more 3d support, a few extra options. The initial cost will be more than GBA, but it should tone down over time... and eventually games will move towards supporting the newer GB.

Just a hypothesis, but based on past-history not entirely unlikely

FP Mofo

[Anonymous Coward]

34+ 1+!!1!

Speculation: Portable hand-held GameCube hybrid

[Phoenixhunter]

The *other* advantage of having small discs is a small foot print when it comes to putting a unit together. I'm starting to believe that choosing to use the smaller discs was part of a longer term plan to transition Nintendo's products to be all-mobile/hand held. I have heard something about a new GameBoy featuring an FX chipset at various 3D conventions...but we'll have to see how that pans out.

Too Bad It's Not A US Release of the Q

[Crimson Midget]

As part of their deal to make optical drives for the Gamecube, Panasonic garnered the right to make their own version of the Cube.

It's called the Panasonic [Gamecube] Q. It's a rather stylish looking Gamecube with dvd capability. But of course it runs about $450 so I'd say it's more for the hardcore Nintendo enthusiast.

Links:
http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=24 28
http://www.fullyindependent.com/article.php?ar ticl e=gamecubeq

Japan release vs US release...

[GoRK]

A late 2004 release in Japan would coincide with an early to mid 2005 release in the US. This is plausable, but it's ridiculous to debate at this stage anyway.

Xbox can't play DVDs either

[yerricde]

The Xbox console cannot play DVD movies out of the box; that's a $30 attachment, where most of the money goes to MPEG-LA, Dolby, DVD CCA, Macrovision, and other holders of DVD-related patents and trade secrets.

Re:Xbox can't play DVDs either

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual, OCG gets it wrong.

Oh yeah, by the way, YHBT, YHL, HAND.

Multitasking: Priceless.

[yerricde]

There are plenty of parents out there without enough money to get their kid a dvd player and a console.

• Xbox plus DVD player software: $210.
• PS2, with DVD player in BIOS: $180.
• GameCube plus separate Apex DVD player: $160.
• Not having to give up your GameCube when somebody else in the house wants to watch all three The Lord of the Rings directors' cuts straight through: Priceless.

There are plenty of things coins can't buy. For everything else, there's WarioCard.

Re:Multitasking: Priceless.

[Psychotext]

You are paying waaay too much money for your kit. These are UK prices:

XBOX with DVD Remote: 100
PS2: 120
Gamecube: 80 (Not sure how much you'll get a seperate DVD player for but it wont be 20)

I'm not complaining though... I have a dvd player, xbox and gamecube. :-)

Re:Multitasking: Priceless.

[Haeleth]

Not sure how much you'll get a seperate DVD player for but it wont be 20

Richer Sounds are advertising the Acoustic Solutions DVD421 at GBP 29.95 inc VAT.

Re:Multitasking: Priceless.

[Psychotext]

I stand corrected. :-) (Then again I imagine the playback quality of an XBox / PS2 should be much higher as they have some sort of reputation to protect)

Re:Multitasking: Priceless.

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously never used the PS2 DVD player. It is of a notably poor quality.

Pelican

[yerricde]

Then what do you do when you want to switch from the Xbox to your Super NES, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, or VHS player? My solution is a $20 five-input A/V switch from Pelican Accessories. It even has a built-in RF modulator/switch for older TV sets.

Re:Pelican

[bigman2003]

Not to say that your solution isn't good- but you asked, so I'll answer.

My Xbox(DVD) plugs into the RCA jacks.

My VCR plugs into the coax.

I've sold off all of my old consoles, and I don't watch 'television'.

If I did have other devices that needed to be hooked up, my answer would have to be-

"I made it as easy as possible for the other members of the family, making sure they don't have to do more than press two buttons. When I want to do something, I go to the...."

Smash Bros.

[yerricde]

I think it was more a failure not to have a Zelda or Mario title available for launch

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are playable characters in the launch title Super Smash Bros. Melee. Everybody raise your hand if you bought a Cube for Melee.

(At least yerricde's hand goes up.)

Re:Smash Bros.

[PhoenixFlare]

Perhaps I should have been more specific...Mario or Zelda-only title. Not a crossover like SSBM. I suppose Luigi's Mansion counts, though I don't think it was seen as a "real" Mario game by most people. Wind Waker was out earlier this year...Hardly a launch title.

Not to say that SSBM isn't an awesome game, though...First game I bought with the system, and i've been hopelessly addicted to it since then.

Get real

[EvlG]

I don't think a lot of people here have any clue how long it takes to develop a game these days.

Top-tier, blockbuster games take 18-24 months minimum with very large teams (40+ people in development alone). A well managed team can shrink the time down to 12 months by inflating the team to 70+ levels, but they have to start with an established technology, lots of experience, and great management.

You can't just release a console next year - you need tons of time to get developers up to speed on the hardware, and start their game designs. It's not a 12 month proposition folks!

the only way to go...

[koi88]

Mobile phones are getting better and better for playing. So are PDAs. They have fast processors (well, relatively) and large color screens.
Therefore the GBA may become obsolete. If Nintendo isn't careful and offers some extra value (like 3D acceleration-- should be cheap, no?), there soon might be no reason left to buy a Gameboy.

and Toyotas outsell Porsches...

[koi88]

... so everybody prefers a Toyota?
Your Quote (insults ignored):"the GBA and GBA-SP even Outsell the Xbox!"

"play super monkey ball on it" (insults ignored).
The existence of a 3D game does NOT necessarily mean there is 3D acceleration. Fricking old idiots like me know that since Doom and Quake I.
Play this strange Star Wars game (forgot the name) on the GBA at 5-10 fps and you'll see there is NO hardware 3D acceleration.

Re:Look at the hell Sony is Going through with the

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, throw on your sarcasm goggles when you're reading Slashdot.

wtf is next-gen?

[spir0]

I think the phrase "next generation console" has got out of hand. Consider this: before the current batch of consoles was released, the makers were calling them their next-gen consoles. Now, people continue to call them next-gen consoles, even though they are the CURRENT generation.

Now the media are telling us that Nintendo's next console will be a next-gen console. Of course it is THEIR next-gen console, but it's not A next-gen console.

I wish people would stop referring to the current generation of consoles as next-gen as if it were a spec.

The second thing that comes out of this article is a quote from Nintendo saying that the GC is the most popular console among younger gamers.

Well, duh! For a start, that's who most of their games are targeted at and because it's the cheapest console, parents who are low on cash are more likely to buy their children the cheapest console they can.

They might be surprised to see how many people are still buying old segas and old nintendos for their kids from auction sites for $20 or less. Low income families, or catholic families who have to budget for 8000 kids are going to go for the cheapest they can which will still provide entertainment for their children.

Incorrect

[IncohereD]

One of the big plot points in the "Will XBox survive" debates was that Nintendo was actually able to sell their machine at a profit, until MS, which was/is taking a bath. A comment earlier up mentioned that they may not be taking a profit at the new lower price, though, which is the reverse of the usual trend you mention.

Everyone is overcharged!

[raygundan]

It sounds like you are actually being overcharged for gamecubes.

Today's UK-to-US exchange rate is 1.686. Which means your price list looks like this in dollars:

XBox with DVD remote: $168
PS2: $202
Gamecube: $134.88

So, the UK XBox is cheaper (probably because they aren't selling well over there) and the UK gamecube is around $35 more. In the US, it's cheaper to get a gamecube and a cheap DVD player. In the UK, apparently not.

$40 DVD player

[John Harrison]

I bought a Daewoo DVD player at Sam's Club last weekend. It cost $39.95. It plays DVDs as wells as CD-R with MP3s and JPEGS, and VCDs. So a GCN + DVD player is about $139.94.

Re:$40 DVD player

[natd]

Or the Digitor model I bought my parents this week plays EVERYTHING (at AU$90 which is less than the price of a game itself); DVD (region free of course) DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, VCD, SVCD, MP# and WMA to name a few. That's better than my much more expensive Panasonic which will only play DVD+R and DVD+RW. Anyone buynig a console thinking they are getting a good deal on a DVD player is deluding themselves. And I know some deluded families stuck with noisy region locked (average family doesn't mod) DVD players which they paid way over the odds for once the sales guy talked them into extra warranties and controllers.

Re:$40 DVD player

[r0gue_]

I agree with pretty much everything you said... but the Xbox will play 99% of the DVDs the avg family wants

Backwards Compatibility

[peregrin641]

But one big problem with the Saturn/Dreamcast was backwards compatibility. You can't play Saturn games with the Dreamcast.

So you've spent over $400? The console was probably $150 or less. But if they made controllers and GB-GC connectors backwards compatible as well, then it wouldn't be as much of a problem for you, would it? Maybe they would also build a GB Player and BBA in, plus built in hard drive for game storage.

I can't really see a fan of Nintendo being upset with more powerful hardware, especially if there is BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY. This is a key factor I think for a new Nintendo console to have a chance of being successful, no matter when the release. Otherwise, there is no chance of it being competitive vs Sony and Microsoft.

I don't think a Gamecube 1.5 would stand a chance. I think they should go all the way with a kick-expletive next-gen system for holiday 2004. They would definitely have a decent-sized game library by the time the PS3 comes out.

The hardware will be outdated by then, but they could release another system within 1-2 years of the PS3/XBN release. That would still be about 4 years between consoles.

I do agree that if Nintendo doesn't make the RIGHT moves, they could be forced out of the console business. If all they do is simply follow Sony's lead, they are dead. They have to not only hold onto their niche, but reach a larger fanbase as well. Maybe a 1st or 2nd party line of sports titles?

Re:Backwards Compatibility

[gamgee5273]

Well, first, you should check your facts: the GCN cost $250 when it first came out. I bought it two weeks after release. That, plus the GB Player, three more controllers, the GCN-GBA cable, two memory cards and ales tax...well, I've probably spent over $400 on hardware. And I have yet to buy the broadband adapter.

Now, back to the topic at hand by quoting the update on the story: Update: 11/13 23:44 GMT by S: GameSpot has a very cryptic clarification from Nintendo, that "the new product will be a unique item that is different from any traditional machine", and will be "be [neither] a home console nor a portable machine."

So it won't be a new console or an iQue. However, I think a device to allow game downloads would fit that description.

Backwards compatibility is key, I agree with that. But it wasn't the lack of "bc" that killed Sega in the hardware business. What killed them was poor handling of the post-Genesis sytems. If the Dreamcast had been backwards compatible with the Saturn and Sega CD, would that have saved them? No, because the people who bought the DC were already Sega fans. More than likely, they had Saturns sitting next to their TVs. I know I didn't buy my DC until it was $79 and Sega had announced it was going away...but I wasn't a Saturn owner. I am a Genesis owner (actually, I own two), but the Saturn was so bungled, and the DC was so rushed, that Sega lost me after the Genesis.

However, since we know it won't be a console, I guess the speculation is wide open...

Virtual Boy 2...

[kabocox]

What I'd want in a VB2...

1. Cool LCD glasses with built in head phones.
2. At least N64 level, I'd really like photoreal, but I think we are 2 or 3 generations away for that.
3. Rechargable battery that comes with the cords for AC/and car DC
4. $100 price with $20 games
5. Basic PDA software
6. Basic CellPhone with a $5-$10 monthly plan for "unlimited" local calls.
7. E-book Reader.
8. USB port that could attach to i-pod...

Re:New system and Original Topic

[Apple Acolyte]

I don't understand why this insightful parent post was modded offtopic. The guy was simply responding to a long line of previous comments, and while the conversation in general was offtopic because of one of the initial posts, you can't fault this poster for continuing the discussion. A console on an expansion card wouldn't work precisely for the reasons mentioned by the poster. Please, it's really a good thing when moderators utilize common sense, or else the whole system breaks down.

Now on the truly original topic, it seems Nintendo is concerned about being out of the gate first with their GC successor. They should be cautious with that approach, because it won't necessarily make the company more successful. The Dream Cast was out of the gate quickly as the first of its generation; aside from the piracy problem, it also didn't have the marketing clout needed to exploit its lead. By the time the market really started heating up, no one cared about Sega anymore. (I also wonder whether the accurate perception that Sega again wouldn't support its console properly had an appreciable impact on sales.)

The next generation console wars won't be much of an advance from the current crop, but it will be defined by content and marketing. Sony is the market leader, but MS' assimilation of game developers may change the face of the competitive landscape. (Gates must be throwing a lot of money around in order to get Japanese developers on board.)

It's really time for Nintendo to do something bold in order to elicit support for the GC and its offspring. Unfortunately, the trend in developer support is working against the company-many titles are being released for the crapBox and PS but not for the GC. Maybe it's time for a strategic venture of some sort between Sony and Nintendo as a reaction to MS' bid for yet another monopoly.

Total agreement

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, is there any reason to buy Nintendo any more ? all the hot games are in the PC and PS2. We are tired of Mario, Zelda and Fox anyway.

Give me the new and fresh Gran Turismo any day of the week!

Re:Total agreement

[Anonymous Coward]

And I can't wait for final fantsay xii...

no seriously, i can't.

Console Prices

[sjb2016]

I agree, console release prices are outrageous. I have owned nearly all the Nintendo consoles, save the Virtual Boy and several of the assorted Game Boys, but have never even thought about buying until they were in the $150 category. Of course, I suppose this won't change because some people are willing to shell out $300 at release. That's there prerogative, but I don't have enough money for that. I like the idea of bundling games and accessories again, why not? The cost is probably negligible but I'd shell out an extra $30 for a game and an extra controller.

OT: The Ur'Quan Masters

[ColinBarry]

Don't need to keep that old DOC PC around to play Star Control 2 anymore - try the open source remake, The Ur'Quan Masters. This is actually built from the source of the 3D0 version, so includes all the niceness that made the 3D0 version superior.

Im betting my money on this one.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the N has mentioned the new device is not a console or a portable, then we are talking about a plugin device (eye toy, Ique adapter) or another kind of non gaming device (a cell phone?) but that option is very very thin.

Since they are already testing the Ique in China that one has the best chance to be the "mistery device".

Anyway I wouldnt worry about it, it still is a long way from getting here.

What I would be worried about is that they are not mentioning anything about the GBA2. (even though the PSP is announced for next year)

Blurb? Grok? Gork? Goat?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey This may interest you....

a little Blurb about how Gork was able to Grok the internet or Grok life without having to be a GoAT