LinuxWorld Moving to Boston

DMCBOSTON writes " LinuxWorld will be at the Hynes Auditorium in Boston, moving from NY in 2005." I'll be doing a Slashdot BOF at what I guess will now be the last New York LinuxWorld at the end of January 2004. I'll be sad to see this show move, as I always enjoy NY immensely, and seek any excuse to go there. Boston is a whole different story ;)

Comments

how about it moving every year ?

[Lumpy]

You know Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, and La would be places that would really benifit from having it rotate through? or how about simply Las Vegas?

the rest of the country would like to have it closer once in a while...

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[nocomment]

SEATTLE! ;-) This should be a poll option

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Iphtashu Fitz]

Not Vegas... They already host Comdex every year. I like the idea of more tech shows coming to Boston. I can't wait until the new convention center opens up in Boston. That'll attract a lot of shows that haven't been in this neck of the woods in the past.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Lumpy]

the thing is that Vegas makes it easy for anyone to go.

airfare to vegas is cheaper than taking a bus. ($49.00 round trip right now from Chicago)
the hotels ther eare dirt cheap, and there is gobs of entertainment.

that's why Comdex is set up there.. it's dirt fricking cheap for people to get and stay there. This is the opposite case for Boston.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[wowbagger]

Saint Louis - a bit easier for the middle of the country, a more even split for the coasts, decent airport, some good things to do locally.

Dallas/Ft. Worth - same reasons.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[meatball_mulligan]

Oh F--- Las Vegas! It's an armpit of a city with nothing to offer beside gambling, strippers, and show biz acts that were already bad 20 years ago.

San Fransisco, Boston, New York, Chicago -- these are real cities, not some tacky, sleazy Diseneyland for losers.

m.m.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[KoolDude]

How about Redmond ?

Psim! *runs away*

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but those cities are not on a coast :)

I think having them wherever the hightest concentration of linux nerds are is the best bet.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[catherder_finleyd]

I advocate having Linuxworld in Washington, DC. It would be a good way to increase the visibility and support of Linux by the US Federal government.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[mark_lybarger]

It's an armpit of a city with nothing to offer beside gambling, strippers, and show biz acts

i take it you see this as a bad thing? interesting indeed.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[fractaloon]

Why not just visit LinuxWorld in San Francisco then? I think it's around August and it's a hecka great place to visit. I like the idea of having two shows on opposite ends of the country.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[meatball_mulligan]

Well, I suppose the strippers are alright, but you don't have to go to Las Vegas to find them.

At least New York or San Francisco would have more to offer once you've been kicked out of the strip club.

m.m.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[nomadic]

the rest of the country would like to have it closer once in a while..

Ah, who cares about the rest of the country. You already have your little amusements, cow tipping, moonshine brewing, and just a'settin' on the porch for example, if you want to go to the convention you'll have to come here to civilization.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[inode_buddha]

Vegas would be awesome! Can you imagine the local hooker's union giving them 1/2 day seminars on how to deal with their new geeky / nerdly friends!!?? I can't wait...

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[NineNine]

While that's true, I don't think that Vegas would want it. Comdex is the worst couple of weeks in Vegas for business there, since all of the geeks take up space, but spend nothing. As a Vegas regular, I can tell you that NONE of the people working there like Comdex. All of the attendees seem to be cheap bastards who don't know how to have fun. Now, could you imagine COMDEX with only open source people? Jesus Christ. That'd be terrible. It's cheap to get and stay there with the expectation that normal people (such as myself) blow their wad on food, shopping, shows, gambling, etc.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Billly Gates]

Not to mention a whole lot more fun if you have money to gamble. :-)~

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[SilkBD]

How about it just stays in NYC, the best city in the world hands down...

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Anonymous Coward]

San Francisco? Naw, too many fagz

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[Billly Gates]

Alot of it might have to do with the .com crash. WHen programmers were worth 90k a year and CEO's had money coming out of their ears, Vegas loved them.

Believe it or not I had a former co-worker who used to work at the Mirage and he told me Las Vegas makes over 50% of its revenue from just conventions. ITs HUGE business.

After 9/11, conventions were cancelled up to a year in advanced. This cut profits in half for alot of casino's.

Anyway they are still recovering thanks to the poor economy and as long as the convention center is filled they are happy. If however there is competition then the casino owners would not like it since COMDEX people would spend less. But they will take anyone they can these days and hopefully after a recovery, participants will have more money to eat out and gamble. Its better then leaving it empty while the hotels have to offer rooms below cost in order to fill them.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[ZxCv]

At least New York or San Francisco would have more to offer once you've been kicked out of the strip club.

If you really believe that, then you've either never been to Vegas, or you haven't spent enough time discovering the multitude of things Vegas has to offer besides gambling and strippers.

And beyond that, in Vegas I can stay in the same quality hotel room I'd get in either SF or NY, but with a price that lets me stay 2-3x longer.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[catch23]

Since I've once lived there for 15 years or so, I can tell you there isn't much to do locally. It's a dead boring city. I was so glad to graduate HS and get the heck out of there. At least if LinuxWorld was in NY, there would be more stuff to do when you're not at LinuxWorld. If it were in St. Louis, you'd be bored to tears after LinuxWorld.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[IANAAC]

Saint Louis - a bit easier for the middle of the country, a more even split for the coasts, decent airport, some good things to do locally.

With maybe one flight a day from major cities to get there. That's really not enough for big conventions (not that Linuxworld is classified as big - yet).

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[haystor]

I suggest we move all of these To New Delhi.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[pivo]

Since I live right across the street from Boston's new convention center (on D St.) I would be especially eager for Linux World to go there. Heck, I have a big loft, I'd throw a huge Linux-geek party!

In fact, I'm almost positive that Linux World could use the new convention center for the cost of the overhead only (electricity, staff, etc.). They're desperate to get clients, since after MacWorld dropped out, they don't have any at all lined up.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[fo0bar]

Yes, vegas would be perfect, but as the SF replacement. IE, go to defcon, take a day off between conferences, then go to linux world without leaving your hotel.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[randyest]

Nothing to do in Boston? I guess it depends on which 15 years you spend there -- if you're young and broke, it can be tough, I suppose. I've only been here for about 7 years, and I still can't find enough spare time to take in all the things I want to do and see.

Of course, I came from the cultural wasteland that is North Florida, so it maybe a perspective thing :)

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[TheCarp]

Don't know how to have fun, or perhaps, have a different idea of what fun is?

Frankly, I like to think I know how to have fun. I enjoy my comapny and the company of like minded people (and even not so like minded people) quite a bit.

Frankly, of all the places to visit, Vegas is almost dead last on the list (somewhere below Elizabeth, NJ, and ive been there... ::shudder::). Just totally not my scene.

-Steve

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[pbaumgar]

Are you out of your mind?? I feel really sorry for you if you can't find anything to do in Boston. Glad you moved away if you think that.

Re:how about it moving every year ?

[LanceTaylor]

Where else can you pay to watch a man get mauled by his pet tiger?

Excellent news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that is where I live!

Re:Excellent news!

[ethanms]

here here... now I might actually go to one of these things...

NYC is full of scum... Boston is just full of filth...

Not so bad...

[Gilesx]

Boston isn't such a bad choice. Ximian desktop is just one of several large open source projects are based in Boston, and I hear there is a good open source "following" there.

Won't make any difference for me though, because I am stuck here in the UK :) Anyone know of any large Linux expos that are forthcoming in the UK?

Re:Not so bad...

[Minna Kirai]

just one of several large open source projects are based in Boston

Heard of a little thing called GNU or FSF?

higher concentration of geeks?

[Alien54]

given MIT, Havard, BU, etc, you may get a very high attendance.

On the other hand, would it be a good idea to rotate the show among a number of cities in the US and elsewhere?

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[rudy079]

Dont forget Northeastern!

Bigger comp sci than BU... BU kids suck anyway.... and can't party

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Dr.Enormous]

The concentration of geeks is sufficient to support a sci-fi/fantasy-only bookstore in Cambridge, so I'd say it's a pretty good choice. Add in the tons of biotech and IT startups scattered around 128, and you've pretty much got geek central.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[ThogScully]

I'm sure WPI will also yield a fair share of geeks there. I wish this had happened sooner, as I'd love to go. Never any good tech conferences around here and New York is always just a little too far most of the time. I'm looking forward to it.
-N

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[jnik]

The concentration of geeks is sufficient to support a sci-fi/fantasy-only bookstore in Cambridge

For what definition of "support"? Pandemo's been hit pretty hard by the Harvard Square slump and they had to lay off some part-timers. I don't think they're going under anytime soon, but times have been rough.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Your_Mom]

But, I find the NU CCIS students to be an order of magnitude more freaky then the BU CompSci Students. Of course, MIT blows both of them out of the water.

Besides, COE schools CCIS when it comes to computers. [Coming from someone who beat the pants off CCIS students in their CTF game 3 years running]

Besides, NU is still a small time school, In spite of what Freeland says. But don't get me started on that tangent.

(NU Alum, Class of '03)

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Pathetic Coward]

Make that the tons of vacant office buildings scattered around 128 (and 495, and Kendall Square). There are very few IT startups left and the big guys are shipping off their labor to India.

As to bookstores, Pandemonium is still there; but the two tech bookstores, Quantum and SoftPro, are hurting. SoftPro has moved its Burlington store to a Lexington one half the size; the Marlboro store now has little stock and I expect it will go as soon as the lease comes due. Quantum still has tech books and general reference material for the non-CS parts of MIT, but lots of their CS books were marked way down for clearance.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Billly Gates]

But in New York you have businesses with big pockets.

The idea of the show was for vendors to make money while us regular geeks got freebies.

The problem is New York is financial based in terms of businesses. They are not upgraded and have been in recovery for years now. After Y2K businesses began to stop the upgrading. It was just a burst of spending since they needed to upgrade anyway, just upgrade everything.

Now they ask wait a minute? Didn't we just spend $85 million 3 years ago? How much money did the upgrade get us? etc.

Anyway the conventions need to draw big business so vendors show up. Many are going under and cutting back to save money.

My guess is since Linux is turning into a commidity, that they are moving it to Boston to save money since New York is expense and no one is buying anything over there. That is not good economy wise or Linux wise in corporate America.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[geekoid]

Put it in Vegas, with free booze and hookers, and you'll get a much higher attendence!
Pfft, forget the convention.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Squidgee]

Tufts? What about Tufts?

Hell, I'm prolly headed there in a year, so you best remember it! =p

(Course, it might be Brown I go to...not sure yet..)

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[rudy079]

Thats okay, I came in second in CTF this past quarter... but god damn, most of the cs kids are pretty *freaky* *cough* get lives *cough* but hey... just means more of the females remain untaken ;)

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, we (my team) all graduated last year so we were unable to defend our crown. First time we didn't place or win since it started, we were all quite depressed. :)

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Your_Mom]

Sadly, we (my team) all graduated last year so we were unable to defend our crown. First time we didn't place or win since it started, we were all quite depressed. :)

Whoops, hit the AC button instead of no karma. That was me.

Re:higher concentration of geeks?

[Dr.Enormous]

Hey, I'm not saying that they aren't hurting along with everybody else, but the number and concentration around the greater Boston area still far outweighs most anywhere else in the country...

Rrr.

[Geekwad]

There's nothing wrong with Boston.
And there's 30% less city-juice per square mile.

Re:Rrr.

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell are you going on about?

Re:Rrr.

[Anonymous Coward]

He equates "city-juice" to blood flowing to the brain.

He has 30% less blood flowing to the brain than normal.

Why not have it in Seattle?

[Captain Tenille]

There's never any Linux or *BSD conventions in the Northwest. :-(

Sure, Microsoft's based in Washington, but there are other operating systems found here.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[dollar70]

There's never any Linux or *BSD conventions in the Northwest. :-(

You should thank God you don't live in Ohio. People in these parts buy computers because it was on sale at Sears. They don't see anything wrong with the phrase, "I like Juno." Even the geeks speak with "twang". The traveling computer shows stopped coming here because they got tired of explaining why you couldn't connect a USB keyboard to a 386. In Ohio, old men masquerading as consultants buy PC's with twice the computing power of anyone they know, install 3 different anti-virus programs, brag about how great their computer works, then turn around three weeks later asking people if they know anything about computers because theirs stopped working for some reason.

I'd love to see something like LinuxWorld in Ohio.

One of the best reasons to use Linux in Ohio:
"Hey, you know something about computers, don't you?"
"Sorry, can't help. I only work on Linux based PC's."

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[mark_lybarger]

I'd love to see something like LinuxWorld in Ohio.

so that no body would show up and the thing would end up a show of the past? really, there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to bring this type of "tourism" to the state of ohio. in a state where dinning out is the most common recreational activity. well i don't have to say more.

i know what you mean about the computer literacy level of the ohio residents, but a show like this in ohio (CMH, CLE, CIN) would drive it out of business.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[dollar70]

You're right. No need to waste a perfectly good computer show on Ohio. I'm just so tickled that we still have Computerfest!

(For those who don't know, it's mostly a big computer junk sale. Who knew that bugs in a computer system could be taken so litterally? {No Grace Hopper jokes please...})

I fantasize that one day I will escape from this state. Maybe in about 30 to 40 years when all my relatives are dead I'll be able to leave. I'll travel to a land where you could ask a question about an OS or piece of hardware and not get that look as though you had three eyes.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus, kid, just MOVE. Are you being imprisoned by your family? Move away, and come back to visit for the holidays. Happens all the time, people moving.

There's a whole world out there. Have a look at it some time. You might like what you see.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[mark_lybarger]

thanks for the link. been here for some time and never heard of that. i'm only an hour away and they do have some interesting talks it seems like. will have to sign up for the spring.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[jjohn]

No entirely true. Last year's OpenSource Conference was in Portland and will be there again in 2004. Check out O'Reilly Conferences.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[jacksonh]

There is OSCON in Portland and Linuxfest Northwest.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[dollar70]

You're quite welcome. I've been going to Computerfest every chance I get. The various Linux seminars are actually pretty lame, but I like to go see them all the same. There's just something hypnotically sureal about a redneck explaining Redhat.

Re:Why not have it in Seattle?

[M. Silver]

really, there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to bring this type of "tourism" to the state of ohio.

Two words: Cedar Point.

its time two go too school two spell to.

[Talrias]

And I was to busy grinning ear to ear to notice any serious bloopers.

from the thats-really-to-bad dept.

CmdrTaco is really having problems with using "too" rather than "to" today!

Re:its time two go too school two spell to.

[Alien54]

Actually, 'to bad' is a new verb in the making

You see this in words like 'doh!'

'Doh!' = I or we did something incredibly stupid

'duh' = you or they did something incredibly stupid

Re:its time two go too school two spell to.

[rcw-work]

Actually, 'to bad' is a new verb in the making

The new opposite of 'oll korrect'?

Strange

[GizmoToy]

The poster, DMCBOSTON, likes New York better than Boston?!? How amusing!

Re:Strange

[Talrias]

Erm, no. DMCBOSTON's text is in italics. CmdrTaco's addendum to the article is in normal.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

That was CmdrTaco, fucktard.

Re:Strange

[GizmoToy]

Ah yes, you are correct. I was too busy chuckling to myself to notice. Nevermind, all. :)

Re:Strange

[Hal The Computer]

DMCBOSTON writes " LinuxWorld will be at the Hynes Auditorium in Boston, moving from NY in 2005. -->"<--

What he said was in quotes. Ha! ;-)

Don't count your chickens yet!

[qualico]

"But Apple Computer immediately threatened to boycott the event showcasing its products, putting the move in jeopardy. After hinting it might keep the show in New York after all, "

Sounds like they are just testing waters.

I have not been to a Linux show yet, however, if I had to choose, NY would be the place I'd like to go to one.

I'll throw this serious question out there...
What benefits does one get from these shows besides a good excuse to travel and meet others in the industry?

The Internet seems to have everything I need about Linux.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[aheath]

The Boston Globe also cover this story. I think it extremely likely that both MacWorld and LinuxWorld will be held in Boston for the forseeable future.

I am a native New Yorker who moved to Boston in 1984. I've never been to the Javits convention center in New York. I have been to several convetions at the Hines convention center in Boston. The Hines is great place to hold a convention. It's also a nice location for people from out of town because it is in the middle of the Back Bay neighborhood.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you anti-social? Meeting people face to face is sometimes a better way to exchange ideas. People also form tighter bonds in person. It is also a place to meet people you may not have met online or see things that you did not know existed.

--
J5

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like they are just testing waters

The way I interpreted that bit was that Apple Computer threatened to boycott MacWorld's expo if it moved to Boston (which they did), as discussed in the previous paragraph, putting the MacWorld move in doubt, not necessarily the LinuxWorld move.

It was very confusingly written though.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[CptNerd]

If you're self-employed or have your own company in the industry, tax-deductable travel expenses.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya thats a great excuse to travel.

Trouble is, its *not* going to be cheap at these conventions.

I'd rather say I was off to LinuxWorld Amsterdam...and right off the affair. ;)

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[IANAAC]

But Apple Computer immediately threatened to boycott...

I'm pretty sure this isn't true, but even if it were, who cares? It's a Linux convention, not a Mac convention.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[penguinboy]

What benefits does one get from these shows besides a good excuse to travel and meet others in the industry?

In a job market like this, it's always good to have as many connections as possible.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[telecomtom]

I worked in Back Bay for a few months back in 1988. It's a great place. I don't like big cities but if I have to be in one, Boston is my first choice. I won't go to anything in New York. It's way too big.

Re:Don't count your chickens yet!

[qualico]

Whats going on with the job market? There seems to be a lot going on. There should be plenty of work.

Obligatory SNL quote

[trickycamel]

Seeing that it is NY vs Boston again, here goes...

Nomah is bettah!

Re:Obligatory SNL quote

[Emperor Palpatine]

But what about A-Rod?

Re:Obligatory SNL quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Better to say Nomah is gone! But seriously, this is Slashdot, talk tech.

Re:Obligatory SNL quote

[Elf-friend]

Except that it's probably going to be "Ay-Rahd is bettah!" after this afternoon (an argument we can't possibly lose), though I personally hope they keep Nomar.

I rather hope it doesn't devolve into the standard NYC vs. Boston debate. Boston is, in several ways, a more suitable location for the con, especially given the proximity of Harvard and MIT. Of course, Boston is the better city, but that needn't enter into it. ;)

Re:Obligatory SNL quote

[grunherz]

That is if the whole thing doesn't go into arbitration and drag out another four weeks... the Playlers Union did reject the contract restructuring for A-Rod. ... ... I agree on Nomar staying BTW.

Hey if Boston is good enough for Curt Schilling, Keith Foulke and A-Rod it should be good enough for LinuxWorld!

Re:Obligatory SNL quote

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a jackass.

What can I say, I'm a Mariners fan. Though they're making it tough to like them, with their "big" acquisitions being guys like Spiezio and an attempt at getting a shortstop equal to the one we have, but for $3.5 million more. They'll probably offer Vlad $5 million a year and be shocked when he goes elsewhere, yet they'll tell us that they did their best.

From the thats-really-to-bad dept

[Anonymous Coward]

It is too bad LinuxWorld is moving (to) bad. ;-)

Damn...

[cthrall]

> Boston is a whole different story ;)

What, did you have a bad experience there? "You know how I feel about hell holes!" "That's when the chuds came at me..."

First Macworld

[scifience]

First MacWorld, now LinuxWorld? Is NY really that bad of a place?

Re:First Macworld

[reiggin]

Boston has been begging for these conventions. But I think MacWorld Boston is doomed. Especially with Apple having pulled out. I hope it won't be a similar story for LinuxWorld.

Re:First Macworld

[TheCeltic]

Yes. It is. NY Sucks... Boston is the "Chosen Land". With the exception of the great spirit of the NY people, NY is a wasteland.

Re:First Macworld

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, NY is that bad of a place. Next question.

Re:First Macworld

[nomadic]

Boston has been begging for these conventions.

Fine, then, we'll let them have the scraps from our table. At least in Boston it's boring enough that people don't get distracted from the convention.

Re:First Macworld

[McAddress]

Yes, but on the bright side, LinuxWorld has not changed it's name to CREATE.

Pardon?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

>>I'll be doing a Slashdot BOF at what I guess ...

BOF?? Bastard Operator From.....Boston??

Re:Pardon?

[zzendpad]

birds of a feather session... a gathering of people with a similar interest.

$10

[ljavelin]

And remember, the so-called "Chinatown bus lines" run between Boston and NYC for $10 a seat (one way). Pretty good if you live in NYC and want to go to Boston for LinuxWorld, but you don't have big $. It's a 4 to 5 hour trip depending on traffic.

Re:$10

[Anonymous Coward]

For the less cheap group here, I can't reccommend amtrak enough, at least in the NE corridor.

Spacious seating, good food (for both veggies and meat eaters) and electrical power outlets available!

Re:$10

[Anonymous Coward]

For the more cheap group here, I can't recommend the Appalachian Trail enough. Easy walking from anywhere on the NEC at no charge!

Re:$10

[k3v0]

The Philadelphia Dragon Coach was recently shut down after gambling machines at the station were leaked by a local news station and then investigated by THE MAN

Re:$10

[Frequanaut]

They're not $10, they're $25. My wife uses it quite often to visit her friends on the island.

Re:$10

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends on what time you go. I believe at the moment you can do round trip for $20 if you leave Boston in the early morning and get back at night. I only go Boston->NYC->Boston, so I don't know what it takes to go the other direction.

Re:$10

[WinDoze]

Fung-Wah Bus, $20 round trip.

Re:$10

[Anonymous Coward]

The AT doesn't go through Boston. Whoops!

But I guess you can hop of at Otis MA (is it Otis?) and walk the 100 miles to Boston on I-90.

Re:$10

[Squidgee]

It's Otis. The Big ass Airforce Base here on me little old Cape Cod.

On the plus side, I'm only a 1/2 hour drive away from Boston! (I'm on the Cape, ya know. Not in the Air Force, but I do live on the Cape). Wee! =)

Re:$10

[op00to]

And remember, the so-called "Chinatown bus lines" are responsible for gang violence and murder in New York and Boston. If you want to sponsor that, go ahead. Instead, look into Amtrak. It's really not that bad.

Re:$10

[kritikal]

there's also travelpack. i actually used them this past weekend. sure, the buses for sunday night got cancelled (not their fault), and my monday morning (7am) bus got stranded 30 mins outside of nyc for an hour (got picked up by the 8am bus), but you can't beat a round-trip for $20. i had my own seat both ways and it was about 4 hours each way.

Re:$10

[krmt]

I took this (the Fung-Wah bus) over Thanksgiving to go from Boston to NYC. Other than having to wait a while because it was so crowded to get a ticket, I had no troubles. The trip was quick and comfy. On the way back, they sold out of tickets while I was in line, so I had to go Greyhound. Greyhound was three times the cost and ten times the hassle, all for a slower ride on a worse bus. The Fung-Wah rules!

Re:$10

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no, Otis is a town in Western Mass, between Pittsfield and Springfield, on I-90, aka the Mass Turnpike.

Otis AFB is on the Cape. Pretty far away from the AT.

How about Switching East and West Coast

[mr_lithic]

If it was moved every year, how about alternating between the East and West Coasts?

It would allow those who may not be able to travel the width of the US the opportunity to get to a LinuxWorld.

And hopefully it would get some more dialogue happening between people who would not normally meet other than in a Linux Newsgroup or Forum.

Re:How about Switching East and West Coast

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, it's twice a year, once in summer once in winter, west coast/east coast.

no?

Re:How about Switching East and West Coast

[mr_lithic]

Sorry mate should have been clearer.

I meant switching between more cities on the East and West Coast. The idea of Las Vegas as a West Coast location is not a bad one, along with New Orleans on the East.

Both of these cities are seasoned conference cities and well able to take care of the crowds from LinuxWorld.

And as I said before it allows individuals that would not normally have access to these dialogues an opportunity to participate.

Beer

[g_goblin]

Another excuse to visit the guys at Sam Adams and sample their products

how about WI?

[sickmtbnutcase]

How about having it in Milwaukee or Madison Wisconsin? Close enough that people from Minneapolis/St. Paul, Chicago, Milwaukee, and Madison could hit it. Plus, we never get any cool stuff here anyways.

Advantages of Denver

[Greyfox]

Denver would be great. It's in the middle(ish) of the country so everyone would have to travel equally far to get to it. Except me, I can drive there in half an hour ;-)

Rotation is good...

[WoodstockJeff]

Being in the midwest, I'd appreciate it if LinuxWorld moved around a bit. If, for example, it were in Chicago, I'd definitely attend. With it in New York, I won't (not can't - won't). Boston is a "probably not". It's more a prejudice on my part against those towns than anything else.

Other towns mentioned by posters, like Atlanta, or places like St. Louis, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, etc., are much more "pleasant" to my mind, if further from stuff like Broadway shows and such.

Re:Rotation is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should stop being a pussy and just travel like every other normal American.

Re:Rotation is good...

[mark_lybarger]

dude.. heh. ahem. he like used Detroit and pleasant in the same sentence. amazing. simply amazing

Re:Rotation is good...

[EvanTaylor]

Do not compare Boston to new york, please.

hey cmdrtaco...come meet me

[GillBates0]

you can find me hanging around, chilling out in my cozy cardboard box under the cambridge bridge. i shall wear my tinfoil hat so you can recognize me.

how about we hangout a bit, reading and editing slashdot together...i'll buy you a beer if you let me.

Re:hey cmdrtaco...come meet me

[Carrion Creeper]

The tinfoil hat is so (s)he can get WiFi from the convention center. The cardboard box is to protect the mobile beowulf cluster of recycled Sparcstations cast off from MIT.

What were you guys thinking?

Don't go there guys !!!

[jdifool]

Coz Boston's dying... wait ... ... ... am I a newbie ?

jdif

Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Any reason not to have it in Canada. Accomodation is way cheaper than most US cities and Toronto is way cooler than most places (literally :))

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[doktor-hladnjak]

Any reason not to have it in Canada. Accomodation is way cheaper than most US cities and Toronto is way cooler than most places (literally :))

I had a conversation once with a Canadian professor about SIGGRAPH locations one time. A few years ago, the conference was getting such large attendance that the list of North American cities that could sustain the attendance (facilities, transportation, hotels, etc.) was quite short. Toronto was capable of being on the list, but apparently many companies were strongly against it for logistical reasons.

The big reason given was that they didn't want to have to deal with getting all of the exhibition stuff (i.e. fancy booths, hardware for demonstration, mercandise to give away, etc.) through customs. For events in the US, they just load everything (of which often there's only one set which is used at all conferences) on a truck and off it goes.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Toronto is way cooler than most places (literally :))

Actually, Boston is generally slightly cooler than Toronto (say 80% of the time). Since I live in Toronto and my boss lives in Boston, we regularily get to exchange weather news.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anne_Nonymous]

Oui. All uff zee exhibitions, they would haff to be in zee French and zee Eeenglish. Non?

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck is a 'Toronto'? Wasn't that the name of the Lone Ranger's houseboy or something?

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[TheTomcat]

Only in Quebec.
Seriously.
Stupid Bill 101.

Homeless people starving, highest taxes in the G8, north-american car theft capital, and yet we still fund the language police (who actually have people going around and comparing text on signs to make sure that the english version is a certain percentage smaller (point-size) than the french).

S

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[pherris]

An AC said: Any reason not to have it in Canada?

No, there isn't. Depending on what the Supremes say next week might I recommend Vansterdam? Visiting purely for weather of course.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Quirk]

Vancouver rules for location. As a Canadian city it has the best beer. Having the largest Chinatown in North America it has great chinese food.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

TheTomcat (53158) said: yet we still fund the language police.

Many Quebecois would also agree that only one language is needed in Canada thus eliminating the "language police". What others might not understand is that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects her two offical languages, English and French. IMO, something that's a strength of Canada and worth the inconvenience.

The moive "Canadain Bacon" had the best take on this subject. Francophones regle! =)

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, thanks. I thought it was manditory in all provinces. Sometimes I think it would be better for Canada if Quebec did secede. Same ditto for the U.S. and Texas.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[N8F8]

I'm from the US and I'd be the first to agree on both points.

Re:Since it says LinuxWorld and not Linux USA

[Anonymous Coward]

What others might not understand is that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects her two offical languages, English and French.

Indeed, so why ees zee French bigger than zee English?
Apparently some animals are more equal than others.

Why moving every year is a BAD idea.

[doublem]

My girlfriend is involved in event planning, and it's hard enough to plan an event that takes place in the same venue every year. Just changing the facility and keeping the same city is a headache.

Between the venue's contracts, union woes and all the other issues, you really need people local to the area to avoid being gouged on price at every turn.

Moving to a new city every year is a cute idea, the the expense and the pain is not worth it. For large events, you'd want to be lining up the staff a t least a year and a half in advance.

Hell, I remember my girlfriends telling me about the pain from the last time Arisia tried to change the hotel they use!

Not pretty. Not pretty at all.

Newsflash - Debian does Dallas!

[heironymouscoward]

Just in, news that LinuxWorld is forking. Following the Debian development model, LinuxWorld will henceforth be produced in three parallel versions.

LinuxWorld Stable ("Boston") will provide only the most tried and tested packages. We can recommend LinuxWorld Stable aka Boston to all those who need reliability and conformity above all.

Linux World Unstable ("Las Vagas") will provide early access to new packages. We can recommend LinuxWorld LV to those seeking the thrill of the unknown.

Finally, LinuxWorld Experimental ("Silicon Valley") hosts primarily vapourware packages that are best tried before the coke kick wears off. We recommend LinuxWorld SV to all regular users.

End of news flash.

Re:Newsflash - Debian does Dallas!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not a troll, that's funny! Sheesh, mod points are wasted on some people.

Doesn't matter to me

[sfjoe]

When you're in San Francisco, the whole country is "the east bay".

Re:Doesn't matter to me

[qualico]

LOL! I was told that San Francisco is 49 square miles surrounded by reality.

Re:Doesn't matter to me

[MalleusEBHC]

When you're in San Francisco, the whole country is "the east bay".

So you're the guy I saw asking everybody on BART how long until the New York stop!

NYC conventions are a rip-off for all involved

[lysium]

Organized crime runs the Javtis Convention Center, mainly through the unions. Sponsors, vendors, and visitors alike are gouged. Floor space is outrageously expensive (the .Org pavillion barely afforded the 2003 space it was alloted), unionized employees are required for all functional duties (Teamsters for loading/unloading, another union for food prep, a third union for security personnel, etc.) and come with onerous restrictions. And as any Javits visitor can attest, an awful, low-quality lunch will cost you $10.

I do not blame them for moving to Boston, even though it means that I will miss LinuxWorld next year. Let NYC rot in its own greed, I say....

==========

Re:NYC conventions are a rip-off for all involved

[FSK]

Don't blame us!

I've lived in New York City my entire life and I have yet to meet someone who liked the Javtis Center.

Re:NYC conventions are a rip-off for all involved

[sfjoe]

...And as any Javits visitor can attest, an awful, low-quality lunch will cost you $10.

If you ever attend a convention that has good food*, I'd like to hear about it.

* - aside from the gournet food convention

way to go

[SuperBanana]

Boston is a whole different story

Ahhh, NYC snobbism. Way to go, I'll be sure to stop by and visit you now that you've insulted the city I love. You know what? NYC isn't nearly what it's cracked up to be. I've been. I hated it.

What does NYC have that Boston(and, for that matter, any other city) doesn't? This "NYC, the greatest city in the world" crap is just that- a bunch of crap.

Boston vs NYC:

• Parking is easier(believe it or not)
• Boston drivers may be insane, but they're reasonably polite. NYC drivers are suicidal- and downright mean.
• It's safer- crime's a fraction of NYC
• By the time Linuxworld gets here, the Big Dig will be totally done and traffic smooth- and you'll be able to get to Boston downtown from the airport in a matter of maybe 5-10 minutes, and out of the city in 15. Try that in NYC.
• Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is Concord, MA- the first major battle in the revolution.
• Boston actually has charm. NYC has nothing but rudeness, dirt, crime, overpopulation...
• Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?
• Museum of Science. Museum of Fine Arts. New England Aquarium. Quincy Market. Fanuel Hall. Old Meetinghouse church.
• MIT. Harvard. Tufts. BC. BU. Northeastern. In fact, MA as a whole has more colleges than any other state- something like 220 total.
• Our subway costs HALF yours. The system may be dirty+unpredictable, but did I mention it costs half?
• Our mayor doesn't suck. In fact, he gets re-elected. Imagine that. He also doesn't support a police department that beats up minorities and officers that get routinely arrested for drunk driving.

Re:way to go

[ThogScully]

I agree wholeheartedly (except maybe about the polite drivers thing, but better than NY anyway).

Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?

But in all fairness, the Moby Duck tours in Gloucester use Vietnam era vehicles and thus are certified to, and do, go into the ocean, whereas Duck Tours can only go in the river. Still Boston's closer to these tours than NY also. We've got choices in road/water tourism.
-N

Re:way to go

[mark_lybarger]

Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?

no time to pick each one of these silly points apart, but Seattle also has these silly vehicles. i spent over two weeks there and never had the urge to actually take one of those tours. thank goodness.

Re:way to go

[ImNotThatSmart]

ive never seen someone whine so much about a city. I think you forgot how good the ppl's hearts are in NY especially since 9-11. Remember the blackout a few months ago. Zero riots. Zero looting. Crime is down. I dont know what your talking about w/ the dirt, crime, rudeness. Guiliani finished his term and it was time for a new mayor. I think every police dept beats up minorities and drives drunk.
If Boston is the birthplace of the revolution, that means they all rioted. Doesnt it mean its the birthplace of crime then.
NYs got the Met, Guggenheim, MoMa, Bx Zoo, so its got culture too. Not to mention broadway, times square, and rockefeller.
Our subway is huge. It can bring u anywhere in the city.
NYC certainly doesnt have the best schools but Columbia and NYU arent exactly trash.
If youve ever been to the javitts center, where linux world is held, you'd know that its remote from the busy streets and your illusions of dirt and crime. You dont have to worry!
I dont even know why im arguing with you, I went to linuxworld 2002 and i thought it was BORING.

Re:way to go

[DoNotTauntHappyFunBa]

Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?

The Duck Tour concept has spread to other cities. I know you can do something similar in Pittsburgh. Even though I live in Boston I've taken the Duck Tour (with a guest) and they really cram a lot of information and sight-seeing into a short time. It's no substitute for doing a city on foot, but it's a really nice addition.

Re:way to go

[no reason to be here]

Parking is easier(believe it or not)
Yes, but in NYC, you don't need a car.
Boston drivers may be insane, but they're reasonably polite. NYC drivers are suicidal- and downright mean.
I've driven in both cities. There's really no difference. And, again, you don't need a car in NYC.
It's safer- crime's a fraction of NYC
Proof? Crime is in fact very low through most of NYC ('cept south Bronx). Last time I was in NYC, I stayed in a hotel in Harlem. Felt perfectly safe, even coming back to my hotel after midnight.
By the time Linuxworld gets here, the Big Dig will be totally done and traffic smooth- and you'll be able to get to Boston downtown from the airport in a matter of maybe 5-10 minutes, and out of the city in 15. Try that in NYC.
I'll give you this one. Then again, I hate Logan Airport. I'd much rather deal with Laguardia or JFK.
Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is Concord, MA- the first major battle in the revolution.
This has to do with... If you really want to push a patriotic angle, well, Statue of Liberty, WTC site. Also where the Federalist Papers were published, and the site of the first presidential innauguration.
Boston actually has charm. NYC has nothing but rudeness, dirt, crime, overpopulation...
Umm, you didn't go anywhere in NYC, did you? There are plenty of charming places: Little Italy, Chinatown, etc.
Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?
Museum of Science. Museum of Fine Arts. New England Aquarium. Quincy Market. Fanuel Hall. Old Meetinghouse church.
MOMA, The Met, The Museum of Natural History, the Guggenheim, Central Park, St. Patrick's Cathedral, Empire State Building.
MIT. Harvard. Tufts. BC. BU. Northeastern. In fact, MA as a whole has more colleges than any other state- something like 220 total.
True.
Our subway costs HALF yours. The system may be dirty+unpredictable, but did I mention it costs half?
Like you said, it's dirty and unpredictable. You get what you pay for.
Our mayor doesn't suck. In fact, he gets re-elected. Imagine that. He also doesn't support a police department that beats up minorities and officers that get routinely arrested for drunk driving.
Umm, what? Giuliani wasn't voted out of office. He was inelligible to run because of term limits. Bloomberg hasn't been up for reelection, yet. And every police department beats up minorities. It's true in boston, NYC, and where I am currently (Dallas). It's also true of Cinncinnatti, LA, Philadelphia, and any other big city.

Fact of the matter is, I really like boston. My fiance and I will be either living there, NYC, or Austin (depends on where she goes to grad school). However, there is this insane inferiority complex that a lot of bostonians have with regard to new york. But, NYC isn't for everyone. you have to have a certain toughness and attitude. As my fave t-shirt says, "New York: where the weak are killed and eaten."

Oh, yeah: Red Sox suck. Go Yankees!

Re:way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

You've never even been to NYC, have you?

Re:way to go

[mrisaacs]

Dont want to rain on your parade, but according to the latest FBI stats, NYs crime rate is considerably lower than Bostons. In some cases half.

The raw numbers are much higher, but then there are almost 16X as many more people in NY.

No-one in their right mind wants to drive in Manhattan, but then no-one really has to, the trains busses and cabs do a pretty good job of getting people around. Sadly they don't serve Javits too well.

Re:way to go

[akiaki007]

Well, being from NYC, I have to reply. Yes, I've been to Boston, so I think my answers are justified.

Parking is easier when compared to Mahattan. There is more to NYC than just 1 borough.

I'm sorry, but I think Boston driving is worse than NYC driving, and I've done both. Perhaps this is a matter of opinion, but that is what I think. Also, the last time I drove there, there weren't any lane markers on half the roads...that's just silly! Oh, and to make traffic during rush hour faster they turn all the traffic lights to blinking red/orange lights and I got stuck on the wrong end of that light...

According to recent reports (about 1 week ago) NYC crime rate per population is the lowest of cities larger than 100,000 across the nation. In fact it's dropped over the past 2 years. I'm sorry, but now you're just making things up.

skipping down a few, because I don't feel like listing every historical site in NYC...Boston vs NYC rudeness is a matter of your opinion. I've actually found the people here to be very nice, if you attempt to try to talk to more than one person. Sure people are rude, but that's the case in Middletown USA as well.

Museums, you want me to list em? I guarantee you that there are more in NYC that in Boston.

NYC has the most efficient subway system in the country.

Our mayor doesn't suck either. What else are you supposed to do when you're deal the worst hand in poker? He's given a terrible situation with terrble deficits with businesses wanting to leave, and he's been able to tough it out and generate money for the city. He might not be able to win again, but he was able to do more with his situation, than most politicians would have been able to.

Now, given your first statement "Ahhh, NYC snobbism", your's is worse because it's hypocritic. Pathetic. You should learn to do as your say before you expect others to.

Oh, and just to be a snob...when was the last time Boston won a World Series :)

Re:way to go

[FerretFrottage]

Who really posted this? The GM of the Red Sox...come on, A-Rod doesn't read /. Most of your points are wrong, moot, or written out of ignorance save the subway costs and airport locations. And you can't say Boston isn't "dirty and unpredictable"...after all, it is called "Bean Town", which we all know is the magical fruit :)

Re:way to go

[mcmonkey]

Boston vs NYC:

As someone from NY, now living just outside of Boston...

• Parking is easier(believe it or not)

  Not true. It isn't easier, or cheaper, and you're more likely to need parking in Boston because of the inadequate mass transit system.

• Boston drivers may be insane, but they're reasonably polite. NYC drivers are suicidal- and downright mean.

  That's an outright lie. 'Reasonable' and 'polite' are two words that should never be used to describe Boston drivers. NYC drivers may not be better, but at least you have straight, wide avenues to maneuver in.

• It's safer- crime's a fraction of NYC

  Don't know about that one...I haven't been mugged in either city, even after spending the night in Central Park.

• By the time Linuxworld gets here, the Big Dig will be totally done and traffic smooth- and you'll be able to get to Boston downtown from the airport in a matter of maybe 5-10 minutes, and out of the city in 15. Try that in NYC.

  Did you RTFA? They're not talking about LinuxWorld 2050. Yes, PARTS of the Big Dig are done. But phrases like 'the Bid Dig will be totally done' should be followed by phrases like 'not in our lifetime.'

• Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is Concord, MA- the first major battle in the revolution.

  Very true. Lot's of great history in the area.

• Boston actually has charm. NYC has nothing but rudeness, dirt, crime, overpopulation...

  That's 100% opinion. Personally, I don't get Boston charm, but I won't deny it exists.

• Where else can you take a tour that's half on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?

  If you're into that short of thing...

• Museum of Science. Museum of Fine Arts. New England Aquarium. Quincy Market. Fanuel Hall. Old Meetinghouse church.

  Seriously dude. You do not want to get into a culture war with NYC. Boston has lots of great stuff to see and do, but it isn't in the same league. Example, Quincy Market is a mall. A friggin' mall! That's your great attraction? What is this, New Jersey? Although the NE Aquarium r0x0rs.

• MIT. Harvard. Tufts. BC. BU. Northeastern. In fact, MA as a whole has more colleges than any other state- something like 220 total.
• Our subway costs HALF yours. The system may be dirty+unpredictable, but did I mention it costs half?

  I guess you get what you pay for. The Boston subway doesn't cover half the area the NYC system does and runs for about half as long. Bars closing, clubs letting out...good thing you got that great parking space, cause the buses and trains are all in dream land.

• Our mayor doesn't suck. In fact, he gets re-elected. Imagine that. He also doesn't support a police department that beats up minorities and officers that get routinely arrested for drunk driving.

  Of course, the Boston FBI is playing look-out for the local mob and will hide evidence proving you're innocence while you do 30 years for murder. I don't think either city has much to be proud of in law enforcement

In the end, welcome to Boston, I'm sure it'll be a great move for LinuxWorld and the city. But in the end, Boston doesn't have the hotel rooms, the mass transit, or the titty bars to be a world-class convention destination.

Re:way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

"Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is Concord, MA- the first major battle in the revolution."

While the first shots were fired in Mass, actually the first movements started in New York City. The War of Independence was officially over when George Washington entered New York City after the British exit from lower Manhattan. And if it wasn't for a city-hating southerner, NYC would have been the capital of the United States. In fact, Washington was declared president at what was Federal Hall in downtown Manhattan.

Re:way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, yeah: Red Sox suck. Go Yankees!

Yankee's Suck! Jeter swallows!

Re:way to go

[cthrall]

> there weren't any lane markers on half the roads

Dude, that's because they're variable width. If there are smaller cars, you can make two lanes. I bet you've never passed anybody on the right in parking spaces, either.

Re:way to go

[ljavelin]

OK, I have to reply, living in Boston:

1. Parking sucks in Boston. I take the subway every day - it's very effective. Boston's subway isn't as big as NYC's subway, but then again Boston is a smaller city - maybe the 12th most populus metro area in the US (versus the 1st). Traffic in Boston is relatively easy, even with the Big Dig, but it isn't a grid city like new cities. People visiting LinuxWorld should have an easy time with traffic - they won't be driving thru the North End.

2. It's reasonably safe in Boston and NYC. I hear about a few people being killed in each city. But since I'm not a drug dealer, I feel pretty safe in either place.

3. Both cities have their share of nice people and assholes. NYC is a bit more overwhelming to many visitors because it is very large, and public transit is large and complex.

4. There are plenty of high quality museums for most people in either city.

5. If you visit, you won't care much about the mayor, because you won't be meeting with him.

6. The Yankees are a better baseball team. I long for the 80's when the Celtics kicked ass. Still, Fenway is a treat for all baseball fans.

7. Weather in January in NYC and Boston ain't the best. They should hold it between April and October. Then again, I bet conference facility rates are must more pricey during the summer months.

See you in 2005!

Re:way to go

[dabraham]

Hmm, as someone who grew up just outside NYC, and loves it, and now lives about 5 miles from the HCC in Boston, Yay!

But for whoever cares about my opinions on this trolling:

1. Parking is easier(believe it or not)
   Hynes to Javitz, yes, it is easier. 'course at neither of them would you want to drive there, but...
   
2. Boston drivers may be insane, but they're reasonably polite. NYC drivers are suicidal- and downright mean.
   Umm, which Boston are you talking about? I'm pretty sure that the convention is moving to the one in MA...
   
3. It's safer- crime's a fraction of NYC
   very variable by where exactly you are in either city. Frankly if you're not local, and not stupid, odds are low that someone will bother you either place.
   
4. the Big Dig will be totally done and traffic smooth
   *snort* "Big Dig done?" *snicker* "traffic smooth" *guffaw*
   
5. Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution
   umm, so what?
   
6. Boston actually has charm, museums, Universities
   it does, but so does NYC. They're different charms, museums, Uni's to be sure...
   
7. Subway cheaper
   there's a reason that our subway is cheaper, and most people that I think are likely to attend this convention wouldn't mind paying more to get more.
   
8. Our mayor doesn't ... support police... that beats up minorities....
   Again, they're moving it to Boston, MA.

Re:way to go

[QuackQuack]

> * Parking is easier(believe it or not)

Huh?

> # Boston drivers may be insane, but they're
> reasonably polite. NYC drivers are suicidal- and
> downright mean.

Huh?

> # It's safer- crime's a fraction of NYC

Ok, that's probably true.

> # By the time Linuxworld gets here, the Big Dig
> will be totally done and traffic smooth- and
> you'll be able to get to Boston downtown from
> the airport in a matter of maybe 5-10 minutes,
> and out of the city in 15. Try that in NYC.

Uh-huh, I'll see it when I believe it.

> # Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the
> revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is
> Concord, MA- the first major battle in the
> revolution.

No need to go to Concord, there's plenty of cool revolutionary-era sites in Boston. Bunker Hill, Old North Church, Tea Party Ship, Massacre site.

> # Boston actually has charm. NYC has nothing but
> rudeness, dirt, crime, overpopulation...

I'll grant that as well, though much of the charm is currently obscured by the Big Dig construction mess.

> # Where else can you take a tour that's half
> on land, half on water, SAME vehicle? Hmm?

Nowadays... The duck boats are almost everywhere.

> # Our subway costs HALF yours. The system may be
> dirty+unpredictable, but did I mention it costs
> half?

But it stops running at midnight. It sucks if you want to hit the bars and not worry about driving back to your hotel.

> # Our mayor doesn't suck.

"Mumbles" Menino? That's debatable.

Re:way to go

[QuackQuack]

I'm sorry, but I think Boston driving is worse than NYC driving, and I've done both. Perhaps this is a matter of opinion, but that is what I think. Also, the last time I drove there, there weren't any lane markers on half the roads...that's just silly! Oh, and to make traffic during rush hour faster they turn all the traffic lights to blinking red/orange lights and I got stuck on the wrong end of that light...

Yes, in addition to lack of lane markings, construction objects that seem to be placed at random in Boston streets. There's no sanity to the layout of Boston streets. At least Manhatten features a neat grid.

I'm normally a mild-mannered person, but whenever I have to drive through downtown Boston, I turn into a frothing, raving lunatic, it scares my wife, because dealing with no markers, no warnings that you are in a "turn only" lane, insane unpredictable drivers does that to a person. I've driven Manhatten too, not pleasant, but at least more sane.

Re:way to go

[QuackQuack]

I guess you get what you pay for. The Boston subway doesn't cover half the area the NYC system does and runs for about half as long. Bars closing, clubs letting out...good thing you got that great parking space, cause the buses and trains are all in dream land.

In defense of the T, it's pretty impressive for a city the size of Boston. How many other cities of 500,000 have four distinct subway lines, and 10 commuter rail lines? There's not a subway system in the world that can compare to NYC

Re:way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but in Boston they remember to close tags.

Re:way to go

[virtualXTC]

Yes, but in NYC, you don't need a car. - who sez you need one in Boston? it is after all "America's Walking City" because it is the easiest to get around by foot. Further the subway (T) is extremely easy to navigate when compared to NYC - my girlfriend is a physicist and won't even try to figure out NYC's rail system (I'm in Newark). I've driven in both cities. There's really no difference. - I almost agree - the drivers are consistently aggressive in Boston, NYC has probably the same average aggressiveness - but is extremely inconsistent and therefore more stressful as the outliers on both ends drive me nuts. Proof? Crime is in fact very low through most of NYC ('cept south Bronx). Last time I was in NYC, I stayed in a hotel in Harlem. Felt perfectly safe, even coming back to my hotel after midnight. - I'd have to disagree, when was the last time you heard about some one getting shot in Boston, or having a major building targeted by terrorists?? I rest my case. hen again, I hate Logan Airport. I'd much rather deal with Laguardia or JFK. - yer right - externally - traffic wise - Logan (at least there's a rail to it - though I guess one did just open up to JFK this month... so that might be interesting) internally - I believe I like JFK because it seems more up to date. >Boston/eastern MA is the birthplace of the revolution. 30 minutes out from Boston is Concord, MA- the first major battle in the revolution. This has to do with... If you really want to push a patriotic angle, well, Statue of Liberty, WTC site. Also where the Federalist Papers were published, and the site of the first presidential innauguration. - yea - if any thing I would stated it was the birthplace of the "Open Source/GNU revolution" being that Stallman went to MIT and all. There are plenty of charming places: Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. - The difference is pretty every place in Boston because it's smaller so it doesn't have room for dirt. Our subway costs HALF yours. The system may be dirty+unpredictable, but did I mention it costs half? Like you said, it's dirty and unpredictable. You get what you pay for. - hunh? I guess I don't use public transportation enough - but the only thing I found unpredictable in Boston is which GREEN LINE train would actually take me where I want to go, as oppose to any color rail in NYC. And every police department beats up minorities. - Have you ever visited Boston? There aren't any minorities to beat on.... But, NYC isn't for everyone. you have to have a certain toughness and attitude. As my fave t-shirt says, "New York: where the weak are killed and eaten." - Agreed - Boston is more like a town than a city. Public transportation stops running at 1 am, bars and clubs must close at 2 am, there is nowhere you can buy alcohol after to drink at home after 10 PM or on a Sunday. NYC is a real city. - The one single reason I like NYC better than Boston is that if you decide you wanna go out and do something at midnight, there's actually still things you can do by the time your ready.

Re:way to go

[akuzi]

> What does NYC have that Boston (and, for that
> matter, any other city) doesn't?

Excitement and energy basically.

Don't get me wrong, I like Boston, I don't want to diss it - you can have a good time there - is it a nice city. But it is also extremely homogenous, quiet and conservative compared to New York - whenever i come back from there it's a bit of relief - a bit like returning from a small town to a city.

Re:way to go

[ljavelin]

there weren't any lane markers on half the roads.

Haha, I hear this a lot from my friends who live in places where it snows less than an inch a year.

In general, lines are painted on the road. There are few (if any) in-the-road reflectors or other "more" physical devices.

That's due to snow plows. You see, snow plows scrape off any in-the-road markers. Plus, add studded snow tires, and then the markers last for about, um, 3 weeks.

Now, on to painting lines. Boston has very high traffic volumes, and so the paint only stays clear for a year or so. And painting new lines in the winter generally doesn't work. Furthermore, some side roads are so narrow that lines just don't make sense.

So! When visiting a place where there is some significant snow and very high traffic volumes, you'll find very few road markers.

That's the tough life we have here. We just suck it up and simply sense where the lanes should be.

And put an inch of snow on the road, and then even the paint seems to disappear!

Re:way to go

[Roydd McWilson]

From the website you cited: "Contrary to local belief, the unique idea of a Duck Tour did not originate in Boston. Duck operations have been in existence in the Midwest for decades, and in fact, continue to thrive."
By Midwest, I believe they mean Wisconsin, or more specifically, the Wisconsin Dells a stupid tourist trap river/lake kind of area.

Hey Taco! Why not team up with the Ars crew...

[chadjg]

A few of them live in that area, right? With local connections and a slightly different slant on things you all could come up with deeper articles that compliment each other. Just a passing idea, really.

Re:Hey Taco! Why not team up with the Ars crew...

[leifm]

Yeah, it'd be like Bevis and Butthead teaming up with Bill Moyers!

Nice try, Boston

[Theatetus]

...but no matter how much technology you throw at the Big Dig it will still CONSUME YOUR CITY! Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!

Exhibitors aren't paying for geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

An exhibitor's ability to make back the $20-100k+ cost of exhibiting at a single trade show and get a return better than alternative uses of that money is likely more dependent on the concentration of serious large scale information technology buyers and potential partner companies.

Manhattan has Wall Street and many more corporate headquarters. The number and level of buyers attending LinuxWorld is likely to be much higher. So, it is much easier to believe that the $20-100k+ of total cost to exhibit at a single trade show would be recovered quickly and at a better return than alternative uses of that money if it is in New York.

I could see an argument for having the eastern LinuxWorld in other cities on alternate years to address pent up demand, but I think that New York is still where demand is likely to be highest.

If IDG keeps trying to move its trade shows from New York to elsewhere, I think will create an opportunity for a competitor.

Re:Exhibitors aren't paying for geeks

[bitmason]

In terms of Linux, Boston isn't a bad location. In particular you've got a significant Finacial Serices industry (though obviously less than New York) as well as a lot of Biotech that's been making a lot of use of Linux cluster. Plus various other companies and organizations.

But your basic point is absolutely dead on. The focus of Linux worls is absolutely NOT students and such who are showing up for givewaways and because it's cool. Linuxworld is focused on companies that have money to spend on Linix. It's not a hobbyist show.

How about Oralndo, FL?

[SailFly]

There's a good bit of technology around Tampa and Orlando, not to mention the Disney distractions if you bring the non-Linux inclined family.

Re:How about Oralndo, FL?

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

Not to mention we are well equipped for large crowds (tourism and all), have plenty of non linux stuff to do, are equipped with nude entertainment of all selections (for those so interested), and best of all, I can go!

boston

[cmdr_forge]

yeah I heard that the reason that they moved to Boston was because the insurance rates were too high.

Ralph

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude. I was OK until your post forced me to draw a mental image of the event and I blew my lunch all over my desk.

I'm glad that Slashdot doesn't censor posts but, this one is so disgusting it reall should be deleted.

Re:athlon 64?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw it too at home just before I went back to work. When I got to work to pull up the article, I too noticed it was gone :(

Get a sense of humor.

[amarodeeps]

He was poking fun. Relax.

I'd like to see a LinuxWorld in Linden, Utah

[cheesedog]

Really, I would. It would be a great excuse to take a trip back to Utah, just to see the the jello wrestle fight between Darl McBride and Bruce Parens.

Come on, you can't tell me that wouldn't beat anything you can see in Boston or NY.

And I live in Boston, BTW.

LinuxWorld moving to from NY to Boston?

[WIAKywbfatw]

Yeah, like that's a fair trade for Babe Ruth and almost a century of pain.

Re:LinuxWorld moving to from NY to Boston?

[Anonymous Coward]

But it'll be different next year!

Boston is a whole different story...

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Boston, you insensitive clod!

Words on Boston

[Anonymous Coward]

"I have just returned from Boston. It is the only thing to do if you find yourself there." -- Fred Allen

Re:Words on Boston

[Anonymous Coward]

Take that quote with a grain of salt. Just look at who said it.

new york is great and all

[jaxon6]

But it really does make sense to move LinuxWorld. We've got the best universities(debatedly, CA has a great system) with MIT and Harvard literally down the street from the convention(I've walked the MIT-Hynes center route a few time, park car at MIT, walk over bridge to bar, near Hynes) The Big Dig will be finished (opens this Friday!!), so traffic in and out of the city becomes that much easier. Also, the FSF is in Boston, which makes the city a more logical choice, as New York really only has loads of money and lots of businesses that may or may not use Linux, while Boston has the birth of the American Revolution(er, I mean free software movement) plus the absolute brainpool in the area. Plus, the Democratic convention will have left the previous summer, leaving who knows what image on the city.

Re:new york is great and all

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, Boston is not a bad place to have a Linux convention (or to live for that matter). The FSF is located here for Peat's sake. NYC is big and smelly, Boston is a nice manageable city with an energetic young population and lots of good bars!

Mmm booze...

[radicalskeptic]

I live about a block from the Hynes Conevention Center, and there are about 4 bars right on the other side of the street from the place. But I'm sure that had nothing to do with the decision... nothing at all... ; )

How about LinuxWorld AMSTERDAM!

[Anonymous Coward]

Then we could really get into some OPENsource! ;>

Why?

[WookieinHeat]

Why would they move from the Ritz to Motel 6?

Driving outside the lanes

[mik]

Also, the last time I drove there, there weren't any lane markers on half the roads...that's just silly!
No no! They always paint the lane markers - the problem is that they are quickly erased by all the people crossing the lines...

Vegas

[wowbagger]

Besides - can you imagine an entire audience of geeks at the Luxor watching Blue Man Group?

I honestly don't know who would be stranger - the performers or the audience....

Re:Vegas

[petard]

You often have an audience of geeks watching Blue Man Group at The Charles Playhouse in Boston. The performers are stranger, hands down :-)

Noo Yawkuhs shouldn't be bragging about baseball

[Anonymous Coward]

The Yankmees haven't won a World Series since 2000, beating the crosstown Mets who weren't really that good (and have stunk up the National League since).

In the next 3 years, they lost 2 World Series' to expansion teams and a playoff series to a normally-mediocre team that had never won anything in their 40 years of existence.

Yep, King George's money has really gone far in the last few years, hasn't it? :-D

no surprise

[BigBir3d]

This is the same company that moved MacWorld back to Boston. IIRC, the prices went up at JJC in New York, and the new place that was just finished in Boston is offering discount, or even free, rates to hold your big show there. The local population of geeks in Boston is probably bigger than NYC anyhow (as previous poster mentioned MIT etc). Not surprising, and most likely a good move.

Myself, living 45min from NYC, I will not be going to Boston for 2005.

Cheaper for me!

[BookRead]

I went to Linux World a couple of years ago. I like NYC generally but the credit card takes a beating. And at the Javits you're hostage to the ridiculously expensive, horrible food.

Macworld used to be here and had its best attendance here before it went to NYC.

You probably won't need a car. If it's at the Hynes (rather than the new Convention Center in South Boston) the food court at the Prudential is OK and there's tons of other fun, distracting things to do in the neighborhood. If it's in the new Convention Center you'll probably be staying in hotels near the Prudential anyway and the shuttles will bring you back. And Boston is a walking town. (Tho' I did walk back from the Javits up to B'way and 52nd once just for the color on Seventh Ave.)

I'll definitely be there. Of course, I live in Boston. This saves me buckets of dough. :-)

CIty Juice?

[wowbagger]

By "city juice", are you perhaps referring to what has been called "Mystery Moisture" - the anomalous puddles of liquid[1] that seem to appear on the city sidewalks independant of any normal precipitation?

Or something else?







[1] a.k.a. urine

Home

[scavenger87]

Come back home to Ultima Thule. Come back to Helsinki, Finland, EU
where all got started. You would feel comfortable here with all these
fellow pinguins and polar bears.

Definition of city-juice

[Medievalist]

That substance, exuded by humans pressed together too tightly (as fruitcake in a juicer) that causes politeness to evaporate, intelligence to rot, and cars to get dented.

See here for more information.

Re:Boston sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't come back then

Ya answered yer own question.

[Medievalist]

What benefits does one get from these shows besides a good excuse to travel and meet others in the industry?

LinuxWorld NYC is where I met Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, Eric Raymond, Bruce Perens, Andrew Tridgell, and Rasmus Lehrdorf, among others. A couple of these guys I knew already over the Internet, but meeting them in person really made it easier to communicate with them over the 'net later on.

Unfortunately, because of the DMCA, you won't see Alan at any US convention. But he's really a nice guy, not as scary as you'd think from the "floating head of Alan Cox" picture.

Of course, meeting them in person also gives you a great chance to make a titanic fool of yourself.

We are not going to talk about my chat with Linus...

Central US?

[Ann Elk]

How about Kansas? It's inconvenient enough to piss off everyone, and your boss/wife/whatever will absolutely know it's not just a boondoggle...

Good food, courtesy of IBM

[lysium]

Actually -- the last LinuxWorld expo was sponsored by IBM, and if you were an IBM guest, you received a free "gourmet" lunch -- tuxedo'ed waiters, silverware, cloth napkins, 3 course meal. They fed hundreds of people.....I shudder to think at what it cost them.

It did, however, give the impression (on a gut level?) that IBM was Very Serious about Linux.

========

Re:Good food, courtesy of IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know about IBM, but the Platinum sponsor for every LinuxWorld in the past 3 years has been HP/Compaq. At LinuxWorld in SanFrancisco last August, I enjoyed good lunch and a pleasant evening at the Museum of Modern Art courtesy of HP.

In the red light district

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and some OPEN SORES too.

the MIT flea

[psxotaku]

hope it happens during the MIT flea market. You can get everything from an abacus to a zeon laser, no kidding I saw one at the flea last year.... didn't have the cash tho'

Re:the MIT flea

[f0rtytw0]

Ahh... I love the MIT flea. Where else (besides ebay) can you pick up gobs and strange electronic stuff.

more geek girls in boston?

[Anonymous Coward]

since i'm trapped in a nyc suburb and have little chance of getting out soon, i can only say that i am of the understanding that there are more geek girls in boston, and i might actually find a date if i somehow got there.
is this the case?
and, should i somehow get there, will they discriminate against me b/c i spent most of my life in nyc? i have no special love for my hometown but tell that to the bostonians and it may not be so easy to lose the accent.

Re:more geek girls in boston?

[Anonymous Coward]

"i can only say that i am of the understanding that there are more geek girls in boston, and i might actually find a date if i somehow got there.
is this the case?"

Yes and probably not.

NYC numbers

[Hoi Polloi]

Remember, NYC is physically larger than Boston because it swallowed up many of the boroughs around it. If you want to talk about "We have X more of this than you" you'd have to include Boston's neighbors (Cambridge, Brookline, Newton, etc) to make a fair comparison.

Re:NYC numbers

[mrisaacs]

Have to disagree - most of the cultural and museum type attractions are in Manhattan. There are lots worth seeing in the boroughs too, and they're all accessible via subways and busses w/o transfer to commuter lines or driving.

Besides, if you include the metro area of Boston, you've got to include the metro area of NY. That opens a whole set of venues, most also mostly available via mass transportation in adjacent counties, not to mention NJ and Ct.

Cars?

[Hoi Polloi]

"Yes, but in NYC, you don't need a car."

Join the club, and maybe actually visit Boston before commenting on it. I've lived very comfortably in Boston for a while without a car. The T goes to pretty much anywhere in the city you need to go. The only time you need one is to take road trips, something you'd need a car for in NYC also.

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

The last couple of LinuxWorlds here in NYC have sucked ass. I remember back in the day when Linuxworld first began. You'd get to see small vendors doing cool things with Linux. Now it's just big business, classes and regular everyday crap we've all seen before. Not only that but Javits has always consistently sucked for conventions.

So no loss to people like me, I'm sure attendance for Linuxworld might increase.. but for people like me who've been going for a while. No loss. Boston can have it.. I'd say the only thing I'd miss was free schwag but then, they don't really even do that anymore.

I'd like to see someone start a convention for the innovative stuff people use Linux for. Also to make sure that small vendors get floor space unlike what has happened at Jacob Javits where they get regulated to tiny booths. Anyone interested in starting one up??

Because....uh... no one would go?

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

Boston? Massachusetts?

[geekoid]

Winchester:"Yes, Massachusetts.."

M.A.S.H -- running gag.

[Charm] Re:way to go

[sammyo]

NYC has charm, just that you and anyone involved with Linux can't afford it. (Just as your limo driver to take you to a charming resturant).

Dear lord!

[geekoid]

RedNeck Linux!

All we would have to do is port Big Game Hunter, and Bass Fishing games.

NYC Culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets not forget NYC is the birthplace of hiphop culture that is beloved around the globe even while most of America is hated.

Then again the poloshirt and dockers Linux crowd probably wouldn't appreciate NYCs hiphop roots...

union woes

[spamhog]

Move the venue to India!

I went to SANS New Orleans this year

[JimmytheGeek]

It's a security conference. SANS does a lot of cool things and in the course I took, the instructor was way l337. Very smart, very cool, good presenter. This was stuff I could have picked up on my own but just hadn't gotten around to it. It was an efficient brain-dump. There was a vendor expo I didn't spend any time at, but I could have.

Pretty vast gulf between that and the typical MCSE track, read-from-the-mandatory-course-book thing I'm used to.

I'd have no use for a pure vendor expo, though.

Great Opportunity For Non-Bostonians

[N8F8]

Go see the big dig everyone in the US payed $10 billion for. Ain't communism great?

Re:Great Opportunity For Non-Bostonians

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever, the whole country's (read, major coastal city's) taxes paid for the electrification of the South during the New Deal. You pay 25 times more for domestic farm subsidies than for the Big Dig.

Why don't you make your pseudo-intellectual neocon comments on FrontPageMag, where you won't have to deal with intelligent people who disagree with you.

-1 Troll

[NamShubCMX]

French people get beaten up in Toronto (that was the troll part)

You're thinking of Montreal/Quebec (that was the canadian geography part :P)

Oh?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about humoring us with a shred of supporting evidence for this claim...

Re:Oh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad you asked. I'm one of those gang members.

Re:Oh?

[op00to]

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/7375 870.htm

By the way...

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, I happen to work for the company that does all of Amtrak's advertising.

LWE on MS Windows!

[isoga]

If Linux is so cool, why do they run their site on Microsoft Windows?